Honda NSX vs Civic Type R - Shootout OLD VS NEW | Fifth Gear
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 เม.ย. 2021
- In this brand new Old VS New shootout, exclusive to TH-cam, Jason’s on track at Castle Combe to see if the latest Civic Type R trumps the legendary NSX. Thanks to BOTB for sponsoring this video. For a chance to be BOTB's next Dream Car Winner, enter here 👉 bit.ly/BOTB-Cars-And-Cash
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I’m in Australia. If I cough up and(very unlikely win) can my cousin have it in the uk?
Fan from Canada can I technically win the new type r ?
All new golf r vs a45s
Always happy to see a proper driver behind the wheel
ACDC front man?
Casually beating the absolute bag out of both cars while chatting like he's in my livingroom.
Dude can wheel.
@@gamby16a It's Jason Plato. Dude can indeed wheel.
@@CarambleTV Ah! It's been awhile since I've watched 5th Gear and the facial hair and hat threw me. I recognize his voice now that I rewatched.
Beastly driving.
Agreed 🔥🔥🔥
Everyone loves an old vs new shootout 👌🏼
I don't care if you put a LaFerrari beside that NSX, the NSX will still be sexier for me. Timeless beauty
lol you must be blind
@@The_Animal_Man no its just JDM bias which is fine cause everybody has opinions, but how the "car guy" thing works is take these quotes "i like this (older cheaper car) WAY more than i like this (new expensive car), and if you like the newer more expensive car then youre wrong and not a real car guy" and then add some comments about poor reliability and defamation about the other brand youre comparing your favorite japanese car too and boom, youre a real fanboy now.
@@Garf2O Why so butthurt? OP didn't even mention a single thing about you being wrong for liking the Laferrari, he just stated that he likes the looks of the NSX more than the Ferrari which is completely fine because looks are purely subjective
I think the first generation is a great looking car, but I hate the facelift. I think the original is a better looking car than a LaFerrari too (which is not a pretty car IMO). It's a simple and timeless design.
@@mrebear9758 LoL even old Ferrari like the Testarossa,F40 look timeless than new Ferrari nowadays
The Type R suspension is crazy... how Platos glasses didn’t come off! Give me the NSX any day...
I've seen a lot of people saying the R mode is too firm, the thing the Type R misses out on is a custom mode where you can pick the setting you want, Steering, suspension, throttle response like the German Hot hatches offer. I can't imagine it's anything more than a software update so I don't understand why Honda haven't done it (unless they are going to add it on the new 2022 Type R as a "new" feature)
@@Monkiimagic Hyundai has figured it out on their N. With you on Honda having it on their '22 CTR
@@stevethomas760 Yeah, I had a feeling that the 2022 CTR would have it, hopefully Honda can offer the same features to the existing FK8 CTR as a software upgrade.
Nsx was engineered in the 80s and first released in 1990, the technology is 15 years older than the last edition in 2005.
and technically 1990 is still the 80s.
¿What technology exactly? probably the times are explained for stiffer suspension in the Civic and softer and bigger tires.
@@llavero5 not just stiffer suspension, also reactive suspension, along with more advanced differentials, more powerful engine, faster revving too, better traction control, breaking. A lot of factors.
@@badass6300 Active suspension (not reactive) is practically useless in track.
Differencial dont changed, powerful engine is not about tech, faster reving too.
NSX was a city supercar, so you dont want revs fall very fast with gear changes, but is easy put a lighter flywheel, remember NSX use titanium conrods for rev faster.
Better traction control yes, but usually is bad for track and is disconected, and not better braking, rear engine is always better for brake.
Like i said stiffer suspension + bigger softer tires and a little more power/torque make the difference, its easy make a NSX faster with little changes.
rwd vs modern fwd
There was a pro driver doing passenger laps in a Type-R at Castle Combe a couple of years ago on a track day, nobody could keep up with him and there was some pretty serious machinery there too.
Might be because the guys at Combe have one as their track Marshall car and they just took delivery of a new white FK8 replacement. Honda have a partnership with them.
@@CarambleTV not sure how that has any bearing on the performance of the Type R 🤔
@@Synysterjmz I was just suggesting that *might* be the vehicle at Combe that they saw, and the driver would be very familiar with the track as they are based there. Just a very exciting observation when I was working there.
Fantastic shootout. Glad to see modern rubber on the NSX.
Would love to see what could be possible if manufacturers such as Honda with the NSX could "rebuild" their older platforms with newer tech...great video btw, great comparison and driving 👌
finally a proper driver behind type-r wheel. it takes some balls and working hard to get the best out of these type-rs as they deliver a lot! owner of 2016 fk2
Gotta love Jason Plato
I've had two NA2 NSX and loved them. Great chassis, great VTEC engine, great driving position and great gearbox. Just needed 50bhp more and a little less weight. It's a shame they didn't import the NSX-R into the UK.
You need a type R suspension setup and sway bar under it and you'll beat the shit out of this new age civic.. :D I did.
Watching and hearing a well driven NSX 🤤👌
Thank you.
Stopwatch is all fine and good but you buy with the heart. Which one would you park up as yours? The old girl NSX for me every time.
That moment when the picture transitioned from the NSX to they Type-R... My eyes are still hurting....
Love Jason Plato, proper driver.
Great video, keep them coming 👍🏻
Good one! Now try the Type R against a super car from just one generation ago. 3.5 seconds is a lot on that small track.
The fake engine noise is a six screw operation to disable, and disabling it is easily the best thing I've done since I got mine.
Very well done! "Classic supercar performance in a hatchback" at a less expensive price and all with that legendary Honda reliability. If that does not speak to the focus and passion of Honda bringing driving bliss to the masses then I don't know what does. The NSX was a supercar bargain for the money. The Honda Civic Type R is a performance car bargain for the money in a car you can drive the family around in and do shopping with great fuel economy. Congrats to the winner of this modern marvel!
Fk8 is a BEAST!
@@DRsx4 well I would hope a $100,000 + car beats a $40,000 car.
@@RelaxAndSmokeMeth yeah, they kinda missed and dulled the point
I would still prefer the NSX though, modern cars are so hard, it’s just not enjoyable.
I guess you could dial down the mode for the civic making it much more comfortable and I bet it would still be quicker
As an owner of fk8 nah. The civic is so much fun and so practicals a lot of space.
Would like to see how well the NSX would do with upgraded brakes! Would Def close that gap!
And some modern rubber!
and a small turbo.
@@staysikth well the nsx is using a Michelin PS4S tho. But with better brakes and suspension I'm sure the time can improve drastically
@@jo7375 Yep, the rubber on both is decent. PS4S on the NSX and Conti Sport Contact on the CTR.
@@staysikth The first thing I did was look at the rubber. It has PS4S which is pretty much the best street/track tire available today.
A bloke in a flat cap driving a type R. Thats not something you see every day.
They’re both great cars but I should point out that I’ve had a 1991 NSX for 15 years and not once have I considered selling it. I suspect there are a few people like me, they’re that good. I’ve got faster cars but nothing puts a smile on my face like the NSX. Even on track where it would be out gunned by a Boxster, it’s epic.
Boost blue ctr has been a dream come true for a Honda fan like me. Such a fun and practical car for me
Church.
I can get more stuff in mine than i can in my van :)
Great run! Would love to see the new NSX numbers in comparison. Thanks
I had my pre face-lift Type R at Castle Combe and didn't find it as bumpy. Unless the Pilot Sport 4S have a softer side wall or something?
If the tires on the NSX weren't current issue, that could be worth something like a second on that lap. The car also reflects Honda's old history of not being aggressive with the brakes on their cars. That is also something that would be a not-too-difficult upgrade. But I wouldn't think of putting a turbo on an old NSX - that would spoil the balance of the car.
Wow again! I am sure I saw NSX at around 20 grand at some point. But beating Grandad by that margin would be astonishing, if it wasn’t for the slightly worn brakes on the NSX. I think it would have been a lot closer with new rotors and pads all round 😀
I loved this video too much. I just started laughing when he kept laughing 😂
You know you're in 2021 when Jason has swapped his Panerai for an Apple watch! Amazing driving as always!
Thought the old girl still had some pep in her step. Geez I love the sound when the NSX hits higher rpms. No piped in sounds, real deal
Excellent video. Hoping the '22 CTR is less dramatic looking.
Own a '91 NSX, the original owner paid 20K over list, 83K. A lot of money now but a ton of $$ back then.
Love this channel!!!! Next hot hatch shoot out type r le vs type r pls 🙏
The FK8 is a track beast.
But I would like to see it against a NSX-R NA2...
Still would win.
@@RelaxAndSmokeMeth yes the NA2-R would win, it’s 1 second faster than the FK8 in Tsukuba.
1:04.xx vs 1:05.xx
@@respirotyper929 thanks for the correction!
@@respirotyper929 I'd put that down to track conditions and driver tbh
@@jaaxc1036 I agree, it is that close.
At least some information about the tires on the NSX would be nice. Modern high performance tires give a huge advantage.
Pretty decent - Pilot Sport 4's. Conti Sport Contact on the CTR.
I reckon the NSX Type R would bring a different result. Very different car to drive over the standard. The standard is quite the grand tourer and quite "soft".
Fk8 is just better.
@@RelaxAndSmokeMeth Depends entirely on how one defines better. Faster is but one metric. The FK8 is harsher, more bloated and with significantly less feel and controllability on the limit. As Jason noted in the video the suspension on that setting is daftly harsh and even then doesn't control the damping particularly well. He also notes the back end is too tied down which affects how the car rotates.
@@MrGrentch
"how one defines better": This test was 100% a race so faster=better
"The FK8 is harsher": In this specific setting which is not the only one.
"more bloated": No, it is not. Did you miss the part where the FK8 is lighter than the NSX? While having all the seats, airbags, modern equipment etc.? The gutted NSX Type-R would have been a hair lighter than the FK8 but that's not what they tested here.
"significantly less feel and controllability on the limit": As "proven" by the fact the FK8 runs circles around the NSX on every track, i.e. in the conditions where cars are driven um... on the limit, right? I'm sure "less feel and controllability" contributes to it being faster. /s
"the suspension on that setting is daftly harsh": It's not the only setting though, is it?
"even then doesn't control the damping particularly well": You must have missed Jason saying it controls the damping TOO well, i.e. is overdamped in this specific setting. Which, again, Is. Not. The. Only. Setting.
"the back end is too tied down": If it bothers you, play with tyre pressures and suspension settings or take the wing off for tight and twisty tracks. Guaranteed you'll be wanting it back for proper fast tracks. That being said, even with that trait, on this track, it walked over the NSX.
The NSX is a fantastic classic and was a technological marvel in its time. As a track car in 2021 the FK8 is just better.
NSX-R NA2 is the best Honda ever.
@@bananowyjestemsobie
_more bloated": No, it is not. Did you miss the part where the FK8 is lighter than the NSX? While having all the seats, airbags, modern equipment etc.? The gutted NSX Type-R would have been a hair lighter than the FK8 but that's not what they tested here_
The Civic R is heavier than other Civics in the range. There was a time not so long ago that the R Honda's followed Chapman's dictum of adding lightness. About the first thing the engineers did was to take the base model and put it on a diet. In that regard it is more bloated, but cars have become increasingly so. EV's are going to be worse on that score.
_significantly less feel and controllability on the limit": As "proven" by the fact the FK8 runs circles around the NSX on every track, i.e. in the conditions where cars are driven um... on the limit, right? I'm sure "less feel and controllability" contributes to it being faster_
What makes it faster is more power and less weight with more grip. Nada to do with road feel and controllability. There's a bit of confusion between grip and handling. The former has come on in leaps and bounds in the interim between the two cars, the latter and especially road feel has definitely suffered. Controls tend to be more numb and/or heavy with virtual feedback and the increasing daftness of fake engine sounds.
_You must have missed Jason saying it controls the damping TOO well, i.e. is overdamped in this specific setting_
Otherwise known as not controlling the damping.
Don't get me wrong I think the FK8 is a great car in a lot of ways and a great example of how to do FWD in today's market, but it has its faults too.
Brilliant video
Nice to see Jason having fun 🤩
Great video. Type R NSX vs Civic type R would be a better shootout I'd love to see.
Me either.
Second gen NSX-R that made in 2002 to december 2005 has really high precision C32B engine. As you may know it's 290hp according to the brochure and same type of engine as coupe, typeS and typeT but only TypeR has actually over 310hp and wider torque band than the others. Most impressive point is 4.5seconds to 100km/h.
NSX all day, every day! (quote: Yanni)
Great video, little more into the Mcalren F1 and NSX connection
Senna was involved at the later stages of the nsx development. Honda asked him to test the prototype and he advised to stiffen the body and suspension. So they did and he gave valuable input . He then signed it of prior to its debut once he was happy, he couldn't advise to much on a road car but he gave valuable input.
The white loafers video people are referring to is when Honda made the NA1 NSX TYPE R version and they asked him to test it around Suzuka race track, obviously they filmed it etc and he happened to be in his loaders driving the wheels of it.
The same prototype vehicle was the one Mclarens Gordon Murray spotted in the corner while at Suzuka Japan (Honda supplied Mclaren race F1 engines)
He asked Honda if he could drive it and they let him, in his own words all the other supercars he used as a benchmark for his Mclaren F1 road car faded away and he was impressed by the nsx and used that. He owned one and stripped the car fully when new to copy suspension ideas, use of aluminium, visibility and of course the drive by wire system. Mr Murray actually admitted that was a blatant copy hence why Jason plato mentioned it he also wanted a Honda engine in the Mclaren F1 road car instead of bmw but Honda was too busy with f1 engines supply at the time ..
Look at Mclaren f1s windscreen very similar to Nsx..they copied loads of bits
Sorry for thr long read, but its all explained in his book and you can find it online.
Thanks for doing track battles....after Motor Trend fell off the radar...and Evo became sporadic....very hard to get track battles and lap times..Steve Sutcliffe still flying the radar..and some channels from Canada
How much different are the lines, and cornering techique, for the NSX and the CTR?
I'd like to see if Sport mode would have been better for that particular track with less bounce from the suspension.
Exactly! It would be really interesting to se a comparison between different modes. And maybe over three laps or so to see fatigue when subjected to that horrible stiffness.
The NSX is drop dead gorgeous. The Civic Type R has a really great personality, you're gonna like her a lot I promise.
Love Fifth Gear!!!!!!!! Oh yeah!!!!
Maybe this should have been... NSX Type R vs Civic Type R
That would have been nice. 3 seconds is alot to make up though.
Why bother? Car technology has advanced so much that even if the NSX Type R was slightly quicker than the fk8, it would still show a modern hot hatch is just as quick.
@@PugGTi-vo2lg Yup, very true
I would take the NSX any day!
Thank you for 1:35!
Daamn Type R is a 3 seconds faster than a supercar on a short track,
Type R is one of my dream cars, even though NSX is a masterpiece type r is a car i might actually afford at some point.
That was a supercar from 20yrs ago, N/A engine with no turbos in sight so still impressive. The Type R against a modern day supercar like a Porsche gt3, the results will be different.
@@koolkat969 type r is like 35-40k gt3 is like 200k with options
@@averagebro413 Erm....we're talking old supercar against new hot Hatch here otherwise the test could have been something like old hot Hatch from 20yrs ago against new hot hatch. My point was in keeping to the theme of this test between a supercar and a hot Hatch and trying to put things in context!
@@koolkat969 I think the point of the commenter went over your head, he was saying that the fact that it out-performs a 100K legendary car today, and a 100K 'supercar' of the past, its worth buying it, as its 30K, and a bargain from that prospective.
@@ViolentMLG And when did I say in my comment that it wasn't worth buying? Any small performance turbo hatched car these days has the potential of out-performing a supercar of the past so I'm not getting carried away by what the FK8 did on track. I've personally tested both the Fk2 and FK8 with the intention of buying also and I'm a big Honda fan also currently with an S2k and DC2 so let's not get it twisted.
My Son picked up an '08 Accord EX-L (6 speed 3.5 V-tech Coupe) . We've put about $10000 cdn into it . As a kid I drove Dodge . I'm in love with this car! Straightaway or country roads , it eats everything alive. And I was actually considering the '21 R-type as my "Kids are grown" gift to myself. Absolutely no need ! But I did rebuild the rear end , suspension and brakes , with upgrades. We run 19" Nankang
That NSX design is timeless, the Type-R on the other hand will look even worse in 10 years time than it does now.
Well, that's another legend crossed of my wish list! It first happened with an Aston Martin DB5, my MKII Astra GTE absolutely anhiliated it on the corners and on the straights.. But, I was surprised at how little power the NSX had...
It's quite interesting the likely reason why - In Japan in the 90's there used to be a 'Gentleman's agreement' on horsepower output between the manufacturers. It's why there was so many turbocharged cars like the Supra and Skyline that on paper had low power output but in reality could produce much, much more. The limit was around 280HP and this agreement ended around 2005. The same thing happened with Japanese motorbikes and a 300k limit on speed which was set by the Honda Blackbird but then beaten by the 'busa.
@@CarambleTV Honda XXSB achieved 285 kmh. Still the fastest bike in 1996,before the Busa period
Pretty impressive that the Civic weighs less.
weighs less more torque more power but slower to 60mph ?
@@Funktastico It's the FWD layout.
@@Funktastico type r struggles a lot for traction in first gear. Once it hooks it’s pretty quick
Was traction control completely off and tires the same between them?
Would be interesting to know what tyres are on both cars
A lot of owners of the previous NSX’s will do some upgrades such as big brakes, turbo or super chargers, wider wheels, coil over suspension etc. to try and modernize the car a bit. Although in its stock form the NSX is still an amazing car this video just shows why adding a few improvements to the NSX is needed 👍
Hilarious watching Plato being shook about 🤣 I imagine unbearable in daily life (granted - it has other settings). Rotation/Turn in was an issue on previous models which had a fair bit of understeer too. Love the NSX and the revvy V6 VVTT
Both cars are legendary
Anytime i will chose thé NSX V6 against a 4 cylinders Type R .3 seconds what does it means ?are we driving on a track every day?
Would have been interesting to see time for Civic in Sport mode setting.
Cool comparison. Time and tech soldier on - they forgot to mention tire technology. The NSX is thoroughly transformed with more modern rubber - would be a cool comparison.
was the NSX Type R not available in the UK?
Wonder how much faster would of Keiichi Tsuchiya's NSX-R be on that track compared to a standard NA2?
Thanks for the content. Loved that. Thank god Honda still makes the type-R.
Test out the NSX Type R for more VTEC Yooo
I'm surprised they didn't
They're worth ridiculous money and are so damn rare here. That nsx is a honda press fleet car - at least it was at one point if not now
the engine in Type-R is almost the same as the standard one. It’s suspension and “adding lightness” which differentiates Type-R from standard Nsx.
@@JeremiBulakowski Second gen NSX-R that made in 2002 to december 2005 has really high precision C32B engine. As you may know it's 290hp according to the brochure and same type of engine as coupe, typeS and typeT but only TypeR has actually over 310hp and wider torque band than the others. Most impressive point is 4.5seconds to 100km/h.
Hate the modern Honda styling , they used to be pretty cars .
I do love the old-gen NSX, but I'm not sure whether to choose the fixed headlight facelift or the pop-up pre-facelift.
pop ups all the way!
Pop up headlights are worth extra cool 😎
I wonder how much easing off on the threshold of the NSX Jason did in order to avoid damaging the car. I'm guessing this car was borrowed from somebody who owns it as a personal vehicle. And I'm also guessing that the Civic was provided by a dealer.
Later model of Honda NSX series are really beautiful even in 2021.
A perfect example of "faster does not mean better".
4:26 _I HATE it when manufacturers pump in fake engine noise!_
*Seriously, who actually wants that!?* 🤔
I would like to see upgraded brakes on the old nsx. That should minimize the time gap more.
Fifth gear > top gear
Always wanted a nsx since I was 4!
Me too, since I was 3.5 Years old
@@Shane-zx4ps yeah wasn't released when i was 3.5
Just kidding I was 19 when they came out and I’ve loved them from day one, had a chance in 1995 to buy one for 25 grand and was tempted but I had to put a deposit on a house,
@@Shane-zx4ps Life does get in the way. A few years ago I was talking to my brother about the NSX. "Get some of that retirement money out and buy one", I did.
@@stevethomas760 fair play to you dude, what colour and what year car did you buy, I’m fucking Mac jealous...
Great cars but no surprise for the winner. Would be good to see the E89 Z4 35is against the G29 Z4 m40i💥
It would be nice to see the EK9 Type R vs the new Type R to see just how good the EK9 was.
Are you serious? The EK9 is nice, but it’s too slow.
@@respirotyper929 Maybe this is the case but on a tight twisty race track the lack of torque and lighter chassis would help the ek9. Obviously it will lose but by how much ?
@@bigmac69yall I think it would lose by a lot. On tight corners I would rather see it against a FD2.
@@bigmac69yall 10secs easily
The FK8 Type R would also have beat the NSX-R on this track as well. The NSX-R Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time is 7:56, whereas the FK8 lapped in 7:43. This excludes the FK8 Limited Edition.
Drive a Type R and become a real life Mr Bobble Head 🤪👍🏻
I'd really like to see a 1990 4WS HONDA PRELUDE do a hot lap on that track. Compared with a Type R Civic around the same year. Is that at all possible?
I'd love to know what tires were on each car. Would be curious to see the lap times if the NSX had upgraded brakes and equivalent tires.
Nevermind, 0:58 shows the NSX had Michelin Pilot Sport 4. I think the biggest thing holding the car back was braking. Throw a Stoptech BBK on it and redo the test :)
@@Zygrene PS4S vs. SportContact6 (OE tire for CTR assumption based on brand). In theory that's a slight TW advantage to the Civic, but those are imaginary so it's really probably a wash. Even pads on the NSX will go a looooong way to make it stop better esp over a short session, but in all honesty, probably not a 3+ second difference.
0:06 What you did to the Top Gear storage
I was looking at a Civic Type R at a petrol station today. It is so OTT it is cartoonish, but in a bad way. It screams ‘look at me’ way too much. The NSX says I don’t care if you look at me or not, because I know I’m gorgeous. As for the suspension - bucking bronco, or developed with input from Senna. No contest really, old every time
Jason knows his stuff!
The NSX was the Benchmark for the McLaren F1 which was the benchmark for super cars today.
Nice
Brake and tire tech have come a long way
The NSX is on new tires, Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires.
Great, but what a rough ride in the Civic, I'll take the comfort, ta.
Id be interested to see a lap in Sport mode, the suspension is a little softer but the rest is virtually the same.
Only in R Mode, in Comfort mode it's actually very comfortable.
And the looks of the NSX are incomparable. It will still be sexy 20 years from now
You knw u can put it in comforte mode right? Lol people daily these easily
Even though the Type R won I'd pay $150,000 Canadian for an NSX. I would never drive a Type R with that crazy looking wing in the rear.
I wouldnt mind seeing it against the integra type r, ek ctr, s2000
The biggest time gap comes from civic having a broader peak torque curve and more wheel power AND new tyres that are specifically set up for the car :)
If the NSX had a mild tuneup and fresh comparable tyres it would probably get very close.
"In our minds" 7:10
What tires on NSX?
Do the Mustang Mach 1 vs. the M4 vs. 992 Carrera - all manually shifted
love the new look on the civic, just goes to show what technology does to vehicle performance
That glowing TCS light in every shot
That's because it is turned off.
Castle Coombe?
Curious to what the nsx-r would of done
I’d bet dollars to donuts that this was more of a tire comparison than a vehicle comparison.
Honda created something really special in the NSX.