Ford Focus ST170 vs Ford Focus 2.3 EcoBoost ST - Shootout OLD VS NEW | Fifth Gear
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2022
- To celebrate 20 years (yes, 20 years!) of Fifth Gear, VBH is behind the wheel of a Ford Focus ST170 - which was first featured on the show in 2002 - against the modern Ford Focus 2.3 EcoBoost ST! Make sure you are subscribed for more 20th anniversary shoot-outs coming soon!
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Make sure you're subscribed for more 20th anniversary shoot-outs coming soon!
Hi
I had no ideea fith gear still existed
Shootout we all want to see is mk4 supra vs new bmw supra. Old of course with manual gearbox and most powerful edition, no automatics.
you think this is a fair comparison, just because there is "ST" badge?? Why dont you compare it to the focus RS, 2.0l turbo vs 2.3l turbo
@@opexo its just a video not a real review showing the past and present evolution
I was a Ford Salesman back in 1999 and had a Focus 1.8 Zetec as a company car. Boy what a car, what a chassis. Lacked grunt but it was so good in the Twisties you could carry so much more speed than other front wheel drive cars and pretty much anything else. Lift off oversteer for fun. One of the best Front wheel drive cars I have ever driven. Shame most are rot boxes now other wise I would have another in a breath..👍👍👍
I've always said nothing holds the road like a Ford, even the base models all handle and feel planted, Vauxhall's always rolled all over the road!
Got a mk6 fiesta 1.4 ghia thing is like a little go cart it’s fairly nippy and sticks to the road like glue I had a corsa and it was crap the fiesta is much better!
I first drove them as a Ford salesman as well. Have a few mk1’s now and plan to daily them as long as I can get parts.
Despite the meagre 115ps from the 1.8, it was streaks faster than the 100ps 1.6, and the sweetest engine of the range. As you say you could literally attack any bend with way too much entry speed, the steering full of feel and brakes gave you so much confidence, knowing it would hold on, or with a little lift to pivot the rear around and still come out the other end facing the right way. Almost nothing would cover ground with such ease. The 2.0 ESP was sheer witchcraft.
Blame all the nasty salt on UK roads for that. The Mk1 Focus was arguably the first Ford that DIDN'T get rust holes in it way before it should. And the Zetec engines were smooth and tough as old boots. Far better than the dreaded ecoboom oops sorry ecoboost they make today.
I like these retrospective reviews that acknowlege the older cars rather than simply promoting brand new stuff. Vik is right, the Mk1 Focus has worn it's years very well (and so has she, come to think of it!). That being said, its a given that the new cars are going to be significantly faster and I'm not convinced that faster alone equals more fun, especially on public roads where the speeds you can realistically (and safely) achieve are much more limited.
I honestly believe the Top Gear-style obsession with judging everything by its lap times is a real disservice to what makes cars enjoyable in the real world.
I am going to soon give the Focus MK1 the credit it deserves as no one else will on You Tube to the extent that i would like or the car deserves.These cars are pure bliss to drive and i have owned them all Jdm Crx,Peugeot 205,Bmw Motorsport 528i,E30 323i, Toyota Celica.mk1 escorts Turbo skylines,muscle cars including Chargers,Ford v8 to the tune of 500hp etc. I would not swap my Zetec focus let alone my st170 for any of the above as every car i purchased was better than the other.After 30 years tuning cars and as an engineer i specialised in BMW cars for 15 years.All i see here in 20 years of progress is shiny paint, direct injection madness.I would bet my house that with a k24 tuned to the level of the new focus and a lsd, in a MK1 chassis with no turbo and on a budget would gain back the 7 sec and extend it another 7 seconds etc.When i watched dannyDC2 video regarding what is handling (who never mentions the MK1 once)Mk1 focus chassis is superior to the type R EP3 the times are on the board if you look hard enough the mk1 focus st170 is quicker around a track with 30+ hp deficit.The new focus is a great package don't get me wrong but for a purist there is to much weight,to much sound insulation,to much complication (Another words 20 years of progress) with the direct injection engine and i could go on and on.Hopefully i can create a special edition version of one of these cars and show what they can really do (With hard facts).Just look at that smile on Vicki's face as it tells it all.
I’d love to see this , I totally agree I have an st170 and I love it it’s soon gonna be turbocharged but everyone seems to slate the mk1 focus and compare it to all this new shit
I worked at a Ford dealership from 2000-2018 and amongst many others I had an ST170 and an RS during this period. Awesome cars.
Still rockin an ST170 here! Still going strong and still making me smile! 🙂
Me too! Love them!
get it mapped ;)
@@damoblake6000 haha naa 😋. It's 99.9% factory standard. The only 'mod' she's got is a K&N air filter. Besides, because of the emission restrictions, the engine's basically maxed-out anyway. I know it's possible to gain an extra 10-20 bhp with a map and a sports cat, but it's not really worth it. Plus, in stock form, it's proven to be extremely reliable. In 20 years she's never failed to start or broken down, though admittedly it's done less than 80k miles. In any case, we've got a 2019 ST as well which is plenty fast.
@@leetymcleet6490 haha true mate they are reliable, I had the standard 2.0 petrol version and the only issue I had with it was when I was going down the road or anywhere it would randomly cut out. Happened on the motorway once luckily I was only in the middle lane and managed to get over to the hard shoulder where I had to sit and wait 5 minutes before it would restart again. But other than this was quite a nippy car.
@@leetymcleet6490 no you’re seriously not gaining 10-20bhp from a map and a cat. You only just manage that from re profiled cams. 🤣🤣🤣
Got myself a ST170 back in 2015.
I've put over 110k miles on it since.
I absolutely love this car, it's a real hoot to drive on twisty backroads. Maybe not the fastest car in a straight line (My Mondeo 2.5T does whatever it wants with it on the straights), but maaaan does it turn around a corner well...
I'll never sell it!
I’m living the life as well!😀
I'd like to see MK1 RS vs new ST tbh
I bought a new 2004 ST170 on a deal for £13k. Brilliant car. Kept it for 9 years. Then had a new 2013 Fiesta ST for 8 1/2 years which was also a fantastic car. I now have the new Focus ST (auto) which I love. I really don't understand any of the criticisms it receives.
Vicky hasn't aged a day!😍
Right? I'm not into western girls but she looks fantastic still!
Yes she has..... #ShouldhavegonetoSpecsavers#
Even more lovely now ❤️
Unlike the ST170. Could they have found a more ropey example 🤣
She completely debunks the statements of older woman that nothing can stop aging. So they give up, and guess what happens?
I'd like to see Tif take that ST 170 round the track!
I've had a 2000 mk1 focus 1.8 tddi for 12 years now and it is so much fun to drive, really nippy, great handling, no turbo lag and amazing mpg... Anything that goes on it i fix cos it's just such a brilliant car
ST170 is so charming. I remember test driving one knowing full well how bad I wanted it and how it was unattainable due to the economy and lack of hours. Poor car salesman still went along with everything.
Would've been interesting to see this done against a contemporary gen 1 Focus RS, given the performance creep of the model range over time. As much faster as the new one is, I pine for that old class of fun, fizzy, compact, lightweight hot hatches that didn't break the bank or put you at risk of jail time when you deploy the performance! Still interesting stuff, I'm glad to see OG Fifth Gear vibes back in 2022!!
So happy to see you guys are still on and on YT ❤️ Happy 20 years anniversary 👍
Having owned a MK3 ST 2015 up until recently kick myself now for selling it. We loved it fast, comfortable, handled like it was on rails. Fast FORDs have always been good look at the prices now Escort and Sierra Cosi's insane money. Case in point.
The newer Focus and Fiesta ST are so cool and I'm so upset Ford stopped selling them here in the US.
Love this st170! Mine topped out 140
I had one of these for 13 years I still miss the ST170
Great video!!
Underrated car the ST170, often overlooked because of the RS
It was overshadowed by the civic typeR
@@chrishart8548 the EP3? I always thought people complained about the rear suspension design for that generation.
@@ALMX5DP they probably did. But when v-tec kicked in didn't everyone just loose their minds !
@@ALMX5DP No that was the version that came after. It had the same engine but was a heavier car so in real terms it was slower (but better looking and much nicer inside).
Time has treated you beautifully, Vicki!
The 170 reminds me of my '93 Probe GT with the Mazda 2.5L V6. About the same performance. I bought it in 1999 and kept it till 2013, then got a Focus ST. It's still in the garage and still makes me happy.
Glad you kept it!
@@malcolmgray.5913 : Tuned and modified now. 264 WHP/326 FTLBS with the Mountune MP-275 speed kit and their cat-back exhaust. It's now a 91 (US) octane tune. The Quaife LSD made torque steer run away, and put the phony (and destructive) electronic torque biasing to sleep. A few other bits and pieces. Stiffer FoMoCo springs. Power Stop drilled and slotted front brakes. It's the best car I've ever owned in almost 60 years of driving.
Are you on tiktok Charles?
I've got a 2014 ST with the full Cobb Stage 1 package including the Access Port. It really wakes the car up and it's a lot of fun to drive. Ergos are a little cramped for me though so I might be selling it in the near future. Lol, I was a few pounds lighter when I bought it! 🤣
Used to have a 2003 Focus SVT. Was a ton of fun even without a lot of power. I enjoy my 14 ST now but they're both a great time.
What's crazy is how the svt/st170 block can safely be boosted to the point of 300 whp. The transmission is not weak like most say either.
I've watched this 18 times and couldn't tell you which cars she is driving. Hearing Vicki say 'pump' has made me feel a bit wobbly 🥰
If you looked at the size, interior space, weight and relative cost would a current Fiesta be more similar to a 2002 Focus? After all a 2022 2.3l turbo Focus is really in a different class to a 2002 Focus.
I had an ST170. Loved/hated it. She was so pretty, fun to drive and understated, but no matter what bits the garage replaced, the engine warning light was never too far away. After a few MOTs of barely scraping through through on emissions, I had to get rid and make her someone else's problem.
Bought a ST170 in 2002 from new and loved the car.
I would rather have the ST170 any day as a drivers car. Adding more power to counteract more weight is a poor approach to designing a sports car.
Love my ST170, fantastic cars and not as louty as it's competitors. Fantastic engines too.
ST170 was an engaging car I owned for years. Great do it all allrounder. Back end could certainly step out A LOT further than you were wanting haha, ESC saved me on numerous occasions. I think it was just a little too heavy (closer to 1270kgs i think) and a heavy rotational mass meant it was slow off the line. Lovely car to drive at speed through the twisties with a bit of ryhthm going. Suspension was a bit crashy hitting the bump stops regularly as it's a low car. Was looking to get a Mk2 Focus RS but ended up with the Harris approved Mk3 Megane RS and haven't looked back.
I resolved the weight issue by refusing to allow the wife in it any more. Much more fun, and 150kg lighter.
😂@@TheMerlin672
Shocked the 2.3 made it through without a catastrophic engine failure
nice comparo, brilliant!
ST170 will be outgunned on the straights for sure but B roads, going through the gearbox, taking it through the rev range and all the feedback you get from the brakes, steering etc in a fairly light car makes it one of the best around from that era
There isn't much in it on the roads. Both will be fun. Dare I say having a bit less power is usually more fun even.
@@TsLeng yep means you’ve gotta rev the nuts off it 😄😀
@@TsLeng meh, I have had both and the MK4 ST absolutely walks the ST170 in every situation.
Wut, even in 2002 the st170 was a bit rubbish
Love your resto! Great channel!
Flappy pedals made me smile less. 170 wins in all emotional categories.
Great content!
Guys, I was watching someone's car analysis and it stuck with me how 4 years back I used to watch "fifth gear" they gave points to cars I miss that
just dropping a comment feel nostalgic I miss you guys
Fiesta ST vs the ST170 would have been interesting
R26 Trophy - R v MK3 Trophy - R v MK4 Trophy R Megane shootout. all Nurburgring record holders, would be interesting to see the advances of some of the greatest hot hatchbacks ever made
Great comparison, I feel should have been a 3 car comparison breaking up the 20 years with the 5 cylinder in 08 👌
I owned an st170, great car and very underated. I would like to see the fiesta St180 Vs ST170 since both cars are very similar, spec wise 🙂👍🏻
Me too, I bought one new in 2003, had the Climate Control, Xenon and part leather seat option, think it was the custom pack.. Great car loved it.
I own an st170 at the moment, what a car in the corners🤩
@@robsx4280 very good value a few years ago. Not much more than a good diesel ghia or zetec. And in most cases the st170 has been well looked after. Don't know how much a 2006 orange ST is now but I nearly bought one for £9k as that wasn't anymore than a titanium tdci in a MK2 at the time.
The mk2 Is still the best ST in my opinion.
Awesome 'period' correct review 😃!
Why don't you do....the original Puma sport against the new Puma ST. That would be interesting.
new ST is so fun to drive. you can feel the power all the time, it has great seats and a nice sound. bought one a month ago and I‘m totally enjoying it.
EXCELLENT video, and I will look for others in the future. Very, very occasionally a print magazine will do one of these old versus new model comparisons, but only when the new model is startlingly different/better. This, however, was a wonderful look backwards and forwards.
Here in the U.S. Ford stopped selling the Focus in 2019 so we will never get the newest and probably last Focus ST. The market for such cars here is deemed too small so we are provided with ST versions of crossovers and SUVs...ugh.
Thanks glad you liked the video mate I've had the st 4 16 years still puts a smell on me face Kevin owner of the st in video
I bought an ST170 in 2010. I still have it.
Once did a driving course with some colleagues at an industry test track, there were multiple different cars, FWD and RWD various power levels , which we all took turns in. On the tight wet handling course whoever was in the MK1 2.0 ( non ST) Focus was quickest, pretty much irrespective of skill level
Before I had a growing family I owned a few drivers cars (namely honda prelude 2.2 bb4, honda civic vti, Subaru Impreza wrx gc8 jdm import, VW Scirocco scala, Renault Clio 172 cup, Mazda 6 2.3ltr sport and the focus st170) and whilst the acceleration on the st170 was a bit lackluster it did do pretty much everything well. All the other cars I had were brilliant at something, crap at others, yet the st170 was a pretty good all rounder. Now I've got two kids and a wife who has ms and needs a wheelchair sometimes, so bought a ford cmax for the space and family appeal. Wish I would've been able to find an st170 estate car for a good price with low miles when I was looking to buy a family car though. I did look as I liked the st170 that much. Best things for me were: 6th gear (which made 3rd feel like 2.5), the build quality was pretty good, small overall size but surprisingly spacious and as Vicky said the handling was pretty sharp so day to day driving was a pleasure, without being too stiff. All in all a great car.
The downsides: not really many tuning parts for it, it looked clean but was a bit boring looking and it needed a turbo or faster acceleration.
Very enjoyable
this is more like it, straight to the chase and even after decades of being on the tele.
She hasn't lost any of her initial charm what a video!
Would love to see a video on a seat ibiza cubra 6l vs a new one 😀
I would love to see a shootout between the 93/94 newer shape, big wing Toyota Supra turbo ( I can't remember the year it came out ) and also the brand new Supra turbo. Ideally both with manual transmission.
I would also like to see a shootout between the first original MX5 and the new MX5
The old supra would get eaten alive. They were only ever good with a tune, the new Yaris GR wrecks the old supra lol
I bought an ST170 from a guy who had spent silly amounts of money on it to lose his licence on health grounds, shame for him but good for me lol it had an updated clutch, something to do with the cams and had been mapped, miltek exhaust, suspension and breaks all upgraded. It wasn’t the fastest car but it was nippy, the handling was incredible, I used to teach advanced driving to emergency services and I really pushed this car and it never once failed me, my son had a MK2.5 ST running 400bhp and he used to follow me laughing as the back used to cock its back wheel up, but the thing just wouldn’t skid out on me. I always fancied the RS in MK1 but I’m not a fan of the 3 door look, I can only imagine how they performed. I regret selling mine as I miss the fun was heavy on fuel though but who cares
how does it shape up against new gens golfs am planning on buying one
Had the 170 and loved it. Would love another one. The new st's are amazing but all the tech, the size and weight really annoys me. Too much going on for me.
As a massive RenaultSport fan I’d really like to see the last Megane RS vs an R26.
Grip, power, brakes, balance AND PRICE!!!
Faster, yes...
But is it more fun?
I choose the ST170 every trackday. Because you can rip it hard and don't need to be careful with it.
A Focus Rs generations shootout would be grrreattt!
Does someone know the exact color name of the green car?
I prescribe a dose of VBH every morning.
I’ve got one and can confirm it’s an awesome car.
Vicki butler-Henderson is my favourite with the white and blue leather jacket before 20 years 😁and now couger biting the wheel 😁
The SVT(st170) focus may not be "fast" for today's standards, but there is not many cars out there that the SVT can't keep up with on some bendy backroads. You can push it until you'd think it would fly off the road, and even still you can barely scratch it's potential. There were a few times where the back tire would come off the ground in a corner, and it would still feel so well planted. Unbelievable engineering even for today's standards.
ST170 had a tendency to do a bit of lift off oversteer at speed... kept you on your feet as that back end went very light.
Can you compare the golf gti?
Top marks for not talking about the big iPad that someone has left stuck to the dash!
love me some vbh :)
Vicki🥰.... hands down the Queen of women in both beauty/ car journalists for the last 20years and still going strong!!!
had a crush on her since I cant remember and I'm now 33 lol🤭🤫that's still going strong 2😛
I had one, blue with Recaro seats, in almost mint condition. The engine is gutless and full of flat spots between 2.5k-5k rpm, it vibrated quite a lot on high rpm and lacked "personality" with no good intake/exhaust sound. Gearing was odd, too. Body rigidity was amazing as well as brakes and suspension. It would have been a real hoot with a lightly tuned 2.3 Duratec, I think the Zetec showed that it was a bit outdated for the rest of the package.
Having never driven any mk1 focus. It’s interesting to see how the ST170 performs next to a modern equivalent. But I have played with a few of these on my run to work. They struggle to keep with a 1.8t Cupra I can tell you. Especially on boost. But that’s N/A characteristics for you.
Can’t beat forced induction!
Sadly despite the 35hp more compared to the standard 2.0, they weren't alot faster, and just didnt deliver much more pull even when stroked to 7000rpm. You would think the extra rpm band alone over the normal 2.0 which was all done by 5500rpm would do something to help but not really. The chassis cried out for way way more than 170hp.
The Mountune T190 powerplant should have been direction Ford should have gone with the ST, and the RS would still have sold
Totally not what the car is about. The Cupra while quick is just awful on a challenging UK road compared to the MK1 ST.
@@warwickstingray i agree on the handling characteristic. The mk1 Leon Cupra in standard form was shocking in cornering ability.
But once you modify the front end by means of mk1 TT part’s, it’s a different beast.
As for power & torque, the mk1 Cupra is more than powerful enough to obliterate a mk1 ST 170. Mine is tuned, and trust me, it goes..
The definition of focus st for me would be the MK2.
🤝
Thanks mostly to the Volvo T5 that Ford borrowed for it. Chassis wise they are very similar.
Mine is the 2011 Volvo C30 T5 R-Design
normally aspirated? or naturally ?
Would love to see a shootout between a 2002 and a 2022 Porsche Boxter!
/Fredrik
I hope mean a proper shootout 😂
Vicki hasn't aged much. I watched this very episode back in 2002 and I was impressed by both Vicki and the focus 😎
God bless Richard Parry-Jones for these cars. Another car he worked wonders with was the Escort RS2000 4x4, amazing handling car overlooked due to its mundane relative.
None of the newer cars have any of the character that the old models provided!
I get the point of the video, to see how far it’s come from 2002 etc, but would have been interesting to see the MK2 and MK3 in there as well
Would like to see a fiesta ST shootout
Great car the st170 mate brought a new one quick car 👍 and I bought mk2 st 225
I have the svt version and love every minute of it.
Although it's not a like-for-like comparison, I'd like to see the Focus ST170 versus the Fiesta ST180 - they're probably about the same size and weight...
I bought a mint condition, low mileage ST170 in 2005 - great in the twisties but woefully underpowered in a straight line and a complete lack of low-down grunt
I’d still take the the st170 over the newest one any day… yes it’s slower but the mk1 is so engaging to drive.
You could stroke the old 2.0 and get 2.3 with 190-200 ish hp and the differance would be a tad smaller
Glad to see Vicky back, such a good driver and a nice person!
Vw up gti vs polo/lupo gti?
Great vid ! But the old MK1 RS would be a better comparison - and would win against the new ST without a doubt ! I still drive the Zetec 2.0 and there is no difference in acceleration compared to the ST170. Perhaps it's the gearbox and less weight...
Should do focus rs mk 3 vs mk 4
The MK1 Focus is still the best handling car I've ever driven. Push it too hard and you got predictable gradual understeer as a warning and then all you had to do was lift off, and the rear would begin to oversteer. I've never had so much confidence in a car.
I had a blue 2003 Ford Focus ST170 and it was a right little pocket rocket! I miss that car. ☹️😢
tax these days £360 a year ..drinks petrol like giving a donkey strawberry's ..you need greenlight insurance to insure it .when the clutch shits it self .looking at £1200 have it replaced ..
i do miss mine at times .expensive car to own in these times ..i had to sell mine .its was a magnum grey 2003 with the full leather recaro seats
I realise the point of the video is to demonstrate progress across 20 years but a more comparable test would be the ST170 against a current Fiesta ST. Closer in power, price and weight. I’m sure the Fiesta would win (faster 0-60 and various modern upgrades) but it would be a closer race. The ST170 came out at a time when Ford had largely stopped making hot versions of it’s cars for a number of years and the ST170 seemed (to me at least) as a tentative foot back in the water rather than fully committing. Having grown lusting after Cosworth’s the ST170 wasn’t a car that really scratched that itch, for me anyway (not denying that it was a fun car to drive)
They even did the focus st170 in an estate version. Says a lot about the model if there is an estate option. Focus RS estate probably won't ever be available in a wagon.
💯 agree.
You are missing the point in the video. It is to show the evolution of the Focus ST over 20 years. Pitting it against the Fiesta is just pointless from this perspective
@@chrishart8548 There won't be any focuses in Europe probably after 2025, let alone RS. They might make one last RS option as a homage but I doubt it, knowing modern Ford.
I owned an 03' SVT Focus for about 7 years. Absolutely loved the car, bought a stock 16' Fiesta ST earlier this year to replace. Hands down a better car in all regards. Of course, that was stock, I've since jumped to Stage 3 Tune with 280 ft-lb of torque and 220 whp. It absolutely destroys the ST170/SVTF.
I'd be interested in the polo gti old vs. new
I love my 2019 ST which is also 280hp and they both benefit from everything Ford learn't on the prior RS (the part of the engine that does not leak, the massively synchronised transmission, LSD, Revoknuckle etc). In development it was tested back to back with the prior RS focus and the Merc AMG 45 and although not as mental as either it stands on their shoulders. Nothing better than a car you can use every day but still feel like you are taking part in the end of Hot Hatch history.
Spot on! I was lucky enough to get the MK4.5 back in April because my order was built before the factory shut.
I absolutely love it, I’ve had previous STs and a type R and it really is the best balance of performance and a daily. The only thing I’ve done is added the Mountune M330 tune and air filter, I highly recommend it. Things an absolute beast now 😂
Hmm but the mk3 RS is the focus pinnacle. 4x4 with 400bhp with a mild map.
@@Oilatumify not really, you'd need forged rods and pistons as soon as you go much over stock. They're also really heavy.
@@janesyb nah I’ve got one. It’s got 420 bhp. Would destroy an st. Both are around 1.5 tonne. Only needs forged for further tuning. But it’s 0-60 in 3.9 currently so don’t need it. Plus cornering is insane thanks to 4wd.
It’s the same engine they just de tuned it and fitted the correct head gasket. It still has some weakness which is the open deck design. The mk3 st engine is actually much stronger and capable of huge power
How about a mk 1 punto GT or an uno turbo vs a new 500 abarth
I wanna see Diesel vs petrol - Golf or BMW
Ok the new one is quicker but give me the original Focus any day. My first car was a 2002 1.8 TDDi so will always have a soft spot for them
Wait, fifth gear is still airing?
I wonder about the condition of st170’s tyres. It makes a huge difference on a wet track
Yer I'm the owner an they are uniroyal a in the wet
@@kevinharman6428 thank you. Have a nice drive with your lovely car. I’m a big fan of ST170.
But is it more fun? I bet the old girl is still brilliant on the back roads!