Queerbaiting In Animation | A Problematic Excuse For Representation
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มี.ค. 2019
- A hot minute after my lgbt representation in animation video blew up I recieved a request to talk about queerbaiting in full. I touched on it in that video but didn't do a full video. Here's that video. I talk about Legend of Kora, Steven Universe, Voltron, Adventure Time, She-Ra Princess Of Power, Yuri On Ice, Sound Euphonium, and the genre of Fujoshi in anime. I made a few audio editing mistakes and I am so sorry. Now I must rest because my back really hurts. Enjoy.
Thumbnail art: hhatshirt?...
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The lgbt community doesn’t want
Cute *GAY* couples
We want
Cute gay *COUPLES*
Mood is the perfect word for this, but i think i should think of something else...
Idk. I got nothing.
@@dwikyilhamsyah8893 meese
Also *CUTE* gay couples
FUCKIN G YES THAT'S THE POINT
NOT EMPHASIS ON THE GAy
Hey!
GAY PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE! PLEASE TREAT AND WRITE YOUR GAY CHARACTERS LIKE CHARACTERS BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE THAN THEIR SEXUAL PREFERENCES (unless their sexual preferences play a BIG role in the story)!
so when writing a gay character you should just keep this in mind:
1) they have personality
2) they were gay for longer than 2 minutes
torq Relationship development, for instance, developing past relationships, romantic interests, and any current relationships with other characters, just as you would with straight characters, you know?
Uh... There's more to it than just that dude..
@torq do you really think real life lgbtq+ people are either always lgbtq+ or it has nothing to do with them? no. My experiences as a bi man have impacted my worldview and feelings, but just as equally it's not my entire personality, it does impact it in some ways, but you can have that shown, without making it the entire thing.
torq i thought this guy was kidding
"They were gay for longer than 2 minutes"
Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but I always find it funny how there's some people who are 'one person-sexual'. Like, they don't think they're X sexuality, and then they're just like "Oh shit, look at this person! This is the *best* fucking person!"
I want one of *those* romances in a show.
I'm not holding my breath... they can barely get relationships in general right at all. So something like that is unlikely to happen.
But I can still wish.
Some people don’t know that in some countries they perceive Ruby as a guy and Sapphire as a girl. To combat this, Rebecca Sugar has Ruby wear the dress on their wedding day, showing both of them were girls. In my opinion, I love that.
in russia that episode WAS translated. but director of...localization(?) said: there was something strange. someone dressed like girl, someone like boy.....woman relationships.
well that's a good reason to cancel big part of plot that matters in episode
Didn’t some places just straight up skip that episode?
Yep and they made sure to make Ruby’s eyelashes longer lmao
I mean I agree it’s good to make sure the audience knows it’s gay, but I don’t think dresses should be seen as something only women wear?
Also, the gems are a monogendered race, they don’t have a choice to be straight lmao
@@Mika.Angelo which is funny because that episode also purposely had important plot info, meaning that skipping it would be very noticeable to people paying any attention
Cartoon Network: Rebecca, we can’t have lesbians on-
Rebecca: They gems are gender neutral, they just use female pronouns
Cartoon Network: .....h-how do we work around that???
That’s actually genius lol
@k & p suf is a hole different entity, more or less free from the problems of the cut off. I think Change your Mind would be a better case of that scenario, which I loved, but whatever
@Wasabi Lover I'm sorry- I know this is supposed to be serious but-
*_Weeding_*
@Wasabi Lover 😂😂😂
Wait you can be gender neutral but still use she/her pronouns. How come I wasn’t told this?!
To me the saddest thing is that we’re so starved for good representation that queerbaiting works
Felicity Hunt ikr..😔
Mood
yeah,,,
It’s so sad 🙁. It has the same problem that Autism representation in media has.
That hurt..
Honestly the writers and voice actors of Adventure Time did say publicly that Marcelline and Bubblegum did use to date
But showing any actual LGBT representation would have gotten the show cancelled in many countries
And that's why the saved confirming it for the last episode
plus we have several episodes showing the two having a past relationship as well as rekindling their love for each other, such as the Stakes miniseries which was basically "Bubbline the Story Arc"
Which is ironic considering Hollywood has been queerbaiting for CENTURIES.... I guess slowly infiltrate the minds of consumers than outright but it’s beyond me that people haven’t guessed one bit about gayness in the films and TV they watch but I can’t talk because as a teenager I still didn’t notice in that Spongebob Episode with the Clam Baby lol
Yeah that’s what I thought, sometimes a studio would not be able to confirm an lgbt couple because theyd lose the majority of their revenue they need to survive or many other reasons. The couple are still canonically gay, just not technically.
I remember Alex Hirsch said something like that, in that he wanted to have rep in Gravity Falls, but Disney literally told him "no, we can't do that until somebody else does it first". Like they really worry more about marketability and making their investors happy than any actual representation when ACTUAL REP GIVES YOU MONEY.
Micah Cook hollywood hasn’t even been areound for centuries you are very stupid.
1:18 *Showing Yuri on ICE* "This is NOT queerbaiting."
Me: Thank GOD
somerandomlostchild At first I’m like 😡 what r u doing with true love of yuri and victor, and then I’m like... oh it’s not
lmfao same
Bruh same ik I was like “how is this queerbaiting?” And then he said it wasn’t and I was like “oh ok” LMFAO
i was literslly like " sir yuri on ice isn't queerbaiting and i refuse to believe it is anything but 100% canon." i mean come on they were engadged and kissed (yes i'm very convinced that was a kiss and i don't get how people can think otherwise)
@@adierose0621 wait people don't believe it was a kiss-? in the original scene they kiss lmao it was just cut for censors i believe
Ok yes but She ra actually has LGBT characters in it along with different races and different body types so I love them for it
Ok but are the *characters* written well? Not seen the show so that was an actual question.
Mimic's Gimic I think the characters are written well. Are they the best written characters ever? No, but they’re written pretty well to me
@@lore5751 Fair
@@williambarker1705 they are. Adora is amazing as a protagonist, Catra is an awesome villain and Glimmer is literally the second main character in season 4. Plus shows have LGBTQ+ characters in the background, now we have them as main characters
@@williambarker1705 the show was amazing overall not just because of the representation
nobody:
J.K. Rowling: *_dumbledore and grindelwald had an intense sexual relationship_*
acidikid I-
FKBNUSLVDZMWFYBJGJUJBLEXC!!!!!????
That is news to me
I knew that Dumbledore was gay
But dang!!!
Was the intense part necessary?!
Thanks I hate it
Lmao. J.K. Rowling should just go ahead a troll people with stuff like this forever.
She-Ra isn't queer baiting. After the last season, Adora was clearly done with Catra and she's gonna fuck her up.
LGBT people: *allowed to get married*
Capitalists: "it's free real estate"
carl Carrington 😂
If there's a market, there's exploitation for profit
@@ExeErdna well getting married is expensive and divorce too
Multi-billion dollar multinational corporation with a history of human rights violations: "I'm not gay but $20 is $20."
carl Carrington I ugly laughed
Y'know my favorite part of Yuri on Ice? Russia=notoriously homophobic society and Japan=just plain ignorant in general as well as unwilling to speak publicly about the issue. Guess where the two main characters are from? Still it's a cute show and the animation is on point. 10/10 would recommend
You forgot to put “Warning, the theme song WILL STICK WITH YOU AND GIVE YOU A MOTIVATION TO ICE SKATE AFTER YURI’S PROGRAM”
@@imthatextrakid8292 wE weRe bORn tO mAkE hiStoRy
fun fact yuri is a word for lesbian manga in japan theres a gay version of which is called yaoi and honestly dont know why it isnt called yaoi on ice but ice never watched the anime
@@Blues.EXE39 its because of the main character; his name is literally yuri lol
@@rezukke1447 oh
the she-ra part didn’t age well lmao
I said it wasn’t if people said it was because at the time nothing happened yet lmao (even now it still ain’t)
At least he's right about one thing.. it's not queerbaiting xD
@@VeridisJoe yep definitely not queerbaiting if the characters are actually gay for each other lol
Veridis Joe it’s not just them either! Scorpia and Perfuma are implied to start dating at the end of the show too!!
@@VeridisJoe i mean your point was kind of wrong though. You said there was clearly no romantic tension between them and that it was just shippers trying to see what they wanted but Noelle had always wanted Catradora to be a thing and throughout the it was a love arc. I agree with most your other points though.
There’s a phrase that says “Dont make strong FEMALE characters, make strong female CHARACTERS.” And I think that applies here with gay characters. If a character is gay, you should plan it from the beginning, not shove it in at last second for a bigger viewership and make their whole character “Hi, I’m gay.”
JESSEEE
Also, I agree.
Eh. I mean, if there's room for it (such as the character not explicitly being stated to be cis het), then it comes down to execution. I mean, Taako from TAZ was only decided by Justin to be gay about halfway through Balance, but has chemistry with Kravitz and their relationship works. (You could say Taako is a gay stereotype, but he has character depth [something stereotypes by definition do not have], doesn't use labels, and wasn't designed with the explicit intent to be gay.)
I mean, it can work out to "make" a character gay midway through the process if executed correctly (no explicit showing of the sexuality up until that point, great chemistry with someone on the cast that makes the revelation sensible).
But your first point is absolutely true. The big, big problem with gay representation in a lot of show, especially anime, is that being gay is the center point of these characters. They pretty much have no personality outside of this, safe for maybe being excentric and acting stereotpical. In the case of minor characters, this ends up with them being very uninteresting because all you ever see them do/say is "gay shit", making the whole character really flat and boring and basically is what Veridis Joe said: only put there as a marketing campain to lure people into watching the show. They don't contribute to the story, they don't "make the cast diverse" because it's no real representation and they don't make for interesting characters. And in the case of mayor characters, maybe even protagonists (very rare), it often ends with their whole story being reduced to these "gay topics" like coming outs, finding a partner and so on. They are not treated like normal characters who contribute to the story normally. They are centered or even reduced to this one aspect.
And that's a problem. Of course topics like coming out and romance is a big thing for the LGBTQ+ community and it should be at least hinted if you want to represent a character like that. But reducing the whole character arc to only that, erasing every other aspect the character could have had if he wasn't written as a gay character (having hobbies, having interests, doing stuff outside of the bubble that is gay stereotype), is just bad. It's uninteresing, boring and sometimes even offensive if they execute it poorly.
Nah,, if straighties can exist for the sake of existing, then I think gay characters can exist for the sake of existing.
bbeann no,, I know what the video is saying. I’m just saying the comment isn’t right at all either. It’s not right to throw in lgbt just for those marketing points but to say ALL lgbt characters in media need a backstory or be developed isn’t right either. If white male and cis characters can exist without explanation, then gay characters should have the liberty of being able to exist without any explanation either.
I enjoy the relationship between the two cops in gravity falls tbh
A great but forgotten one 🙌
"With you, every day is a dream."
that was a great example of actual representation!! they actually had quite a few background queer couples that disney forced them to cut out, but i'm so happy the sheriffs stayed in.
Idk man I didn't lol
They're just dumbasses in love with each other and I enjoy that.
NETOSSA AND SPINERELLA ARE MARRIED AND TALK ABOUT IT OPENLY, CALL EACH OTHER THEIR WIVES AND SAY THEY LOVE EACH OTHER
I wish they got more screen time. They got more in the last season but still not that much
They kissed properly yay!
AND DONT FORGET BOWS DADS
@@whruipswhruip6044 YES YES SORRY
i mean it tied in very well to the last season, where Netossa was able to overcome her fear of harming those she loves, whereas Perfuma didn't
If I am being honest all we want is to be normalized not ‘represented’
I totally agree with you, but just because they have a good friendship doesn’t mean they’re gay beans
@@natashadazadazazavala8257 and? People just use their imagination because we have such a poor LGBT representation in media. the moment this problem is solved, it's the moment we may think people are exaggerating. Until that, imagining a nice and healthy friendship between two characters as something romantically isn't bad at all.
Ps: I'm definitely not talking about agressive/obsessed people
@@Elisa240201 ok but i feel like regardless whether the friendship is same sex or opposite sex I think sometimes it just feels like sometimes people are meant to be just friends. I don't know anytime any characters are friends people rush to ship them. There's nothing wrong with that cuz sometimes I do it but regardless sometimes the romance we imagined just isn't meant to be.
@@ghoztiell i mean at the end they are all just fictional so people can think what they want of their relationship/friendship or even create their own version for themselves and its fine
@@ghoztiell I get it. Like especially for male friendships. It's ok for people to ship male friends, to each their own, but strong and loving male friendships are so rarely shown, it's exhausting to see people just shove them into the "gay" box instead of appreciating their bond and it's complexities. If LGBT characters were more normalized, people wouldn't have to desperately scramble to list friends as gay, bc they'd have their fair amount of LGBT characters
"Hi! I'm gay."
"Nice! Anything else cool about you?"
"Nope! Just gay."
accurate, they act like being gay just overpowers every other personality, even though being gay is a sexuality
"im known as being the gay kid, just gay."
It's literally
"Hi, I'm sexy."
"Nice! Anything else cool about you?"
"Nope! Just sexy."
In every shape or form
Hi gay! I'm dad!
sunshine lgbt Twitter users in a nutshell
Two same gendered characters: *touches hands at the end of the season*
Literally everyone: *creams themselves*
GAHAHAAHAHAHAH
You're talking about RWBY aren't you.
@@teamcybr8375 RWBY ships are worse than MHA ships
@@federalcasemaker they literally arent when ships like deku x todoroki and deku x all might exist
@@Andrew-xn4sc and i oop- looks around very conspicuously like I'm not the one projecting my sad closeted gay self onto the characters from an anime show. 😳😳😳 (also, please... tododeku and deku x all might are... kind of different. i mean.. one is a minor and an adult the other is not.)
“that’s a something that you ship people make up” that did not age well... catradora is cannon. the romantic tension and love between adora and catra has ALWAYS been there. we weren’t projecting, we were picking up on moments that were there plain and simple. (btw i don’t mean this in a rude way, i know what you mean i’m just saying that there WERE gay undertones there)
Completely agree also love the pfp pic Katya is everything
FACTS
I think the whole entire show is about catra and adora's relationship... I've heard that at least.
@@mckay4633 nah, it's more about their lives, like they're just the MAIN characters. their relationship is important/a big part, but that's not all the show is
mangoomoo there is an interesting plot too but their relationship really drives the show.
You watched the princess prom episode and still believed Catradora wasn’t romantic? 😂
enter the final episode
It was so one sided though like Catra was over here pining for Adora and Adora's like uhhhhhh
@@tammy5466 Nah, Adora had the same feelings but she was too busy with being the hero and sacrificing herself to realize. There was an interview where Noelle talked about this I think. Adora just didnt realize cause of the role she had to play, and when Catra started making her do things for herself too she realized her feelings. Catra knew from the start, Adora didnt, but it was mutual
@@miuletzmitzu6641 well I didn't see it that way till season 5. It wasn't obvious. The director shouldn't have to explain things, it should be obvious from the show.
Tammy honestly it was always obvious to me. No matter what, adora was always honest about missing and caring about Catra even tho those gestures where never shown. Instead Catra appeared to be caught up in her emotions more when adora isn't around. Also Noelle said originally the higher ups said no completely to any gay relationships in the show even tho before production she had already pushed for a kiss in the last season. and it wasn't until mid production of season one that they were told it was allowed to happen. So it was never intended as a queerbait. But they had to work on themselves as characters before they could be honest about the feelings
It doesn’t matter if they are gay, it matters if they are good characters. Representation is important, too obviously.
Gezi5 PREACH! 🙌
Dayum you said it. Being homosexual or straight doesn't make a character good.
Yeah, but representation is important as well. I do say prioritize good characters, but making a character lgbt+ isn't really that hard to do. I listen to a lot of podcasts, which are pretty free in terms of what they can do diversity and yet I've only seen one aromantic character and I almost cried when they basically came out.
fruit lups _ definitely, but as long as it is a well written character, I like it
@@gezi5927 It's just the way you phrased made it seem as if you were indifferent to diversity. I'm not saying you are, it was just your phrasing.
Bubbline was honestly the most well developed relationship I've ever seen. Like they spent 5-8? years developing it, even when the episode wasn't explicitly about them the creators would just chuck them in the background casually going on a date. That's the cutest shit ever.
Ly Ly Nguyen fr, I love them so much. It’s just like any other relationship, which is how it should be represented in shows.
There've been my OTP for like 8 years 😭
my question is why not make bubbline explicit? it had all the development it needed LONG before the finale. it didnt need eps like Hunson and Marcy which aren't supposed to contain their relationship at all giving vague "hints" that Marcy has a thing for PB when this had nothing to do with the ep as PB wasn't in it. The little ghost with Hynden Walch's voice was the last straw.
@@tipsy634 to be fair, they werent the main characters and they were as explicit as they were within throwing it in your face
Yeah they were imo greatly developed it just kinda sucks that they only kiss in the last episodes. However I believe that was more work of the censors and also kissing isn't the only way to express love. So it didn't bother me as much as a lot of people.
I propose straight-baiting~ make a show/movie seem super straight and crap. and then have the actual content be puking rainbows but also have a good plot and characters. Then the homophobes will get pissed and leave and we're left with a nice wholesome fanbase.
AND THAT~ is how you strain out the homophobes
I-
thanks for this you gave me an idea for a story
RWBY SPOILERS//
This is basically what they did with Sun and Blake.
Or, even better, just portray people of all different sexualities because no one is better than anyone else because of their sexuality. It's okay to be gay, bi, pan, or whatever you feel you are, but it is also okay to be straight. It honestly makes me sad how much toxicity exists in the lgbtq community towards straight/cis people, just because some of them discriminate against us, that doesn't make it okay to be prejudiced against all of them
Isn't this brokeback mountain
@@amazingspiderlad
You actually made my day. Haven't seen an opinion like this in a long time
Thank you for telling the truth
i absolutely love how glimmer wasn’t shock bc bow had two dads, she was shock bc he actually had PARENTS HAHSHAHD lol i love shera
Honestly same, i was confused bc like i thought he was being raised as an archer/soldier/guard for glimmer. Turns out he just ran away, which explains why he never/doesn't wanna talk about his home
I don’t care what anyone says, Marceline and Bonnie’s relationship was well thought and that final kiss was justified and I love them
Alcer The Demon I think so too, I love their story so much and I’m so happy they finally got to be together.
I thought that it was a decision made by one guy split second, or i may be thinking about something else
@@tav7312 I think it was confirmed that they were together at one point, but they saved it for the finale due to countries that censor lgbt content.
"and I love them"
*AND I LOVE THEM TOO >:**
Rebecca Sugar fought so damn hard for so long to get that relationship made, to have LGBTQ+ identity and relationships represented in the media.
Love it or hate it, Marceline X Bubblegum paved the way for the representation we see today.
bubbleline started really early in the show, so definitely not queerbaiting
Yeah I was gonna say exactly this as well. I'm pretty sure it was alluded to as soon as like, season 4 or something like that.
Yea but geezus RT has been dragging this ship for 7 yrs it's annoying at this point.
Haliegh K it’s not a ship lol it’s canon
@@jakallslsosasdghjkl6558 a ship can be canon. ship = relationship
Bruno Winovski i thought the whole point of a ship was that it was a hope of the fans like oh I ship them
Oh come on, Catradora was so obvious
The Owl House now: "it's free real estate"
IKR
Good for them, good for them!
JK Rowling: whack
Voltron: whack
narwhals: whack
your dog: whack
queer baiting: whack
hotel: trivago
Hotel: whack
idk why but i WhEzEd at your reply
Ahem, my dog would like a word with you
Bubbline: Tight as f**k
WHATCHU SAY ABOUT MA DOG!?!?
When “We Bare Bears” added the two brides being carried out of their wedding by the Bears and their stack is a perfect example of LGBTQ+ integration. Simply just normal people and their normal lives, without extra attention put on them. *Take notes cartoons...*
“This show did a way to show queer relationships, thus every show must do it the same way”
Stories are allowed to focus on the non-normative aspects of its characters, that doesn't make them bad
Mhmm! I also remember that gay couple in the Movie Episode :3
Kito Burrito we bare bears is actually he best show on cn. It’s so adorable and has a great plot
The Amazing World of Gumball and Clarence does a great job at not glamorizing same sex relationships
We bare bears is actually pretty good for representation. There are characters of every color and they are just average people, just like they are irl.
“how much baggage do you want shiro to have”
voltron writers: *yes*
In the end, they just said, ya he gay worship us for including you. like 😔
Loving your pfp! I forgot his name (did it start with an 'M'?) but I love that guy with glowing tattoos as his fire-super power ✨
@@hat7475 His name is Ogun :) He's really cool with his glowing tattoos.
@@Thesilentvoice... AAH YESS THANK YOU! I love that guy sm even though I never watched FF ✨
I just wanna say I've watched The Legend of korra and read the comics. There relationship didn't come from no where. Where the show ends is when korra and Asami go on there date in the spirit world. They talk about how there love grew from friendship until they realize that they had feelings for each other when Korra left. They would have been put in as gay sooner but Nickelodeon wouldn't allow it. I do see where your coming from because you only watched the show so understandable, but the comics have it all. Thank you for reading.
Yeah, the vid's outdated and the dude pinned a comment that his view on them has changed. My bi-dar was going off during most of the show. Not everyone may have, it was super subtle, at first I thought I was just randomly shipping them and found that odd since I'm not much of a shipper at all. But something was just warm and sincere in their interactions, honest and easy, in contrast with the other failed attempts with the dudes. Guess the creators really did do their best to hint without being overt. At least some of us caught those hints. :3
@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her same here loved there chemistry. I would have liked to see more of them in the show though.
Explaining things after it happens doesn't stop from being poorly built up.
the only season that didn't have any build up was season 1 because, the only planned a single season.
2 may have had a little 3 ad build up and 4 did for sure.
@@garrettcassidy8547 Except that's not true, because Korrasami wasn't even planned until season 3. The relationship quite did literally come out of nowhere, and that is a form of bad writing, HOWEVER, they successfully made it a more, well, successful relationship through the comics. But to claim that their development was good and that it was basically planned from the start is completely wrong, and it shows. And this is coming from someone who was watching the show recently and tried very desperately to search for the signs, and unfortunately, they just weren't there. Most of the "signs" were little more than friendly interactions amongst to girls who were friends, and nothing more.
People: "STEVEN UNIVERSE IS QUEERBAITING"
They literally had two female leads get married on screen?!??!??
@@Rose_Wolf_1625-ss5rh she silenced her before getting rid of her identity of pink diamond without asking if she would consent to it or not so yes, she did treat pearl as a slave until the very end.
edit: also you have to remember that all gems are programmed to worship their diamonds. so any and all scenes of pearl talking about her "love" for pink was highly influenced by her genetic programming.
@@Rose_Wolf_1625-ss5rh it was the last thing she did as a diamond. she, a person in a position of power, not only used that power to silence her slave without her consent but let her live with it for the rest of her life without thinking about how it will affect her eventually. if she truly cared for pearl's autonomy, it wouldn't have been restricted to just her romantic feelings for her. you can't say it isn't much when it tormented pearl enough that she had to create layers of herself inside her mind just to avoid thinking about it because she literally cannot speak about it.
@@Rose_Wolf_1625-ss5rh "Also programing? That honestly a theory and not canon (unless there's something I don't know about)" peridot said it herself that it's part of their genetic code to worship their diamonds.
"Also she really didn't treat either our pearl or pink pearl as a slave shown in like everything they did together" because they're programmed to please her. if she's pleased, then she has no reason to treat them like garbage but that doesn't remove the fact that they were her slaves regardless.
"Also its pretty obvious rose cares more about what others feel, what she asks Garnet in the answer, the whole rebellion, her giving birth to Steven and her whole thing being empathy" the whole rebellion?? hah?? gems literally died for her sake on both sides and she never considered it???? she literally had soldiers who were fighting for her as pink diamond fighting against her as rose quartz and never batted an eye about it??? literally jasper's whole arc was her trying to avenge her diamond, who was also her enemy at the same time???
Well for ruby and sapphire it actually make sense and actually affects their story and that’s true LGBT representation there’s not like any other shows that do that
@@Rose_Wolf_1625-ss5rh 1. peridot mentioned it in It Could've Been Great that the gems were literally made to serve the diamonds. all gems were created by the diamonds with a set job (pearl being a servant/slave basically, peridots being technicians, etc.).
2. she wasn't what??
3. where did i ever say that people who fight against nazis are evil?? hello?? my point was that she made both the colony and the rebellion fight against each other for her. the colony was made to fight for her, as exhibited by jasper. she did nothing to stop /her/ colony from fighting for her as pink diamond. those were gems serving under her still and they fought under the illusion that they were doing it for her and she didn't think to make them not do that. those gems were under her jurisdiction. the least she could've done was to make them at least fight for her in the rebellion as well. no where did i say that i was defending the nazis nor did i even mention the nazis what the fuck
4. "free the gems who didn't want to be under diamond control (what honestly proves gems are programmed)" like i said, the gems are MADE to serve their diamonds. meaning anything they do for the diamonds, they will find no flaw in (ex. peridot constantly putting her diamond on a pedestal, even thinking the whole cluster thing was a good idea). it wasn't until pd challenged that belief in other gems (but not all of them esp those under her, for some reason) that those gems didn't want to be under diamond control (even though they unknowingly fought for a diamond for literal millennia). those who were not given the opportunity to challenge the status quo wouldn't have known that the diamonds are doing something wrong. they weren't exposed to that. pd shouldn't have limited it to just the gems who didn't want to be under diamond rule when the majority of gems under diamond rule weren't even given the option to choose for themselves. the fact that she made her own colony fight her and die by her sword when she didn't even give them the freedom of choice is a selfish decision on her part and could've prevented unnecessary casualties because of her carelessness.
J.K Rowling be like-
You are gay
Nobody :
J.K Rowling : the entire lgbtq+ is straight.
Snape and Voldemort were in a lesbian relationship
@@parkchimmin7913 An INTENSE lesbian relationship.
@@parkchimmin7913 lmao
*Watches the ending of Shera*
Me: “You never see it coming!”
"You'll see that my mind is too fast for eyes!"
(I don't even watch She-ra, I just felt the need to continue the song)
Yuri on ice definitely has amazing representation. Everything was so subtle and just normal about their relationship; not once did they depict it like it was shocking or anything. It just happened. Especially impressive as, at the time, homosexuality was sort of taboo in Japan.
Ruby and Sapphire: -literally get married-
QUeErBaItinG Oh My GoD
So true
ikr
@@ConnL "5 seasons" wHaT have you not seen the various scenes across the seasons where they were unfused and showed each other so much love!? they were not hid for 5 seasons
alien qxeen
I mean
*censoring*
@@ConnL dude
There literally are 5 seasons
Jailbreak (the first time Garnet defused) was in season *ONE*
Do your research.
I always am confused when people call Steven Universe Queer Baiting.
Ignoring the wedding. Ignoring the obvious episodes revolving around gay relationships.
The MAIN theme of the show is "Identity"
In every arc of the show, Steven and friends wrestle with the concept of Identity. What they are, what they should be, what they want to be, what they can't...be.
Steven for instance is a Half-human child. What he should be, is to be like his mother. What he wants to be, is like his dad. But what he can't be? What everyone wants him to be...his mom herself.
Same with Pearl, she IS a gem made to be a servant. She should be standing silently to the side, supporting her owner, being a possession. What she wants to be, is an independent gem, capable of all the same things anyone else is. What she can't be? Rose's.
Garnet. She is a fusion, a malgamation of two independant gems. She should be (as per their culture) seperated. She wants to be accepted and left alone. What she can't be? Accepted, at least not by Homeworld at large.
It goes on and on. Each character has a crisis of identity, struggles with coming to terms with these "what they" statements, and moving on and becoming a stronger, more confident person, secure in their visions of themselves.
The LGBT community is largely supposed to be a community that protects and celebrates all kinds of unconventional identities, particularly those that are outcasted by society at large. Literally everyone I know who considers themselves a part of that community...has had a question of Identity. Of reconciling what the world wanted them to be, with what they really were. Of determining what they wanted for themselves.
Steven Universe, even if it doesn't outright slap labels on all its characters....is about that struggle.
The struggle of finding oneself in a world that doesn't accept you.
How...can that...be queer-baiting?
This deserves more upvotes. Though I recall someone saying that the show was specifically about relationships, not identity, but your stance is just as valid, imo, because it works.
My initial struggle was after I realized that I'm genderfluid, and was 'getting to know' my other sides. I quickly discovered that one of my forms was straight, while my 'given' form was heteroflexible. The straight form was the opposite gender, meaning that they were interested in a same-sex (opposite-gender) relationship. What doesn't help is that I quickly discovered I had 2 forms of that gender, and the other one is gay, meaning they're interested in what would be seen as a hetero relationship. Then I have another form who's abrosexual and aromantic... @~@ Love is hard for me.
If they had just read ur comment then maybe they would of remembered their names
but the Gems are extra tresserials right? does it count?
I agree. I've heard people say that becuase pearl is never actually seen in a "relationship" with a woman.... She is gay. She was IN LOVE with Rose and said it multiple times.
go off sister
To the people who think Catradora is queerbaiting... no.
They have a very complex relationship. What may have been seen as just best-friends in the beginning, is rethought at the end of the show. You start to look deeper into their relationship towards the beginning, and then the end. You see similarities and differences. The similarities are the way the act around each other, and the way they look out for each other. You see many scenes of their past, which builds up the relationship. For most of the show, it may seem like they hate each other, but they still act playful, and maybe even flirtatious. In season 5, it may seem like things were rushed, but it was really just Catra reflecting on herself, and trying to be a better person. This leads to her opening up more, and allowing herself to make friends. Season 5 is Catra learning to love herself, then other people. If you really look into it, you see signs of Catra's crush on Adora, and Adora's crush on Catra very early on in the show. For example. The way Catra looks at Adora when trying to get her to go back to the horde. The look of sadness, defeat, and betrayal on Catra's face when she discovers that Adora is She-Ra, The way she let Adora escape the ruins. The way that Catra is desperate for the feelings of closeness that Adora gave her (hence Double Trouble). And now for Adora. Like Catra says at the end of the show, Adora never gave up on Catra. You see her repeatedly trying to patch things up with Catra. You see her repeatedly try to get Catra to join her and come with her. Adora's feelings for Catra are harder to see that Catra's feelings for Adora, but they're definitely still there. When you think about it, Catradora was planned from the very beginning. So don't you dare say that it was queerbaiting. Also...
Netossa and Spinerella.
You do see how all this could allude to a friendship right? It's like for example Naruto and Sasuke. It's the same thing as Catra and Adora's situation but they are not in love with each other. The creator should have said and shown from the beginning that they had romantic feelings for each other just like they would with any straight relationship. We shouldn't have to guess if the characters like each other or not. Give us these two women who love each other and are best friends but are torn apart by very complicated situations. In the end Catra admitting her feelings seems like some big reveal when it shouldn't be.
And on that note Adora's feelings were not explicit at all. I picked up that Catra was head over heels for Adora early on and prepared myself for a one sided love that would end up in a healthy mutual friendship. It's really frustrating to hear that it was planned from the beginning for them to be together because then it feels like queerbating.
Tammy if you’re gonna use that logic about straight relationships, then lemme drop THIS bomb on you. bow and glimmer had NO romantic buildup AT ALL.
@@milesgreen7853 I KNOW LOL! I though Bow was gonna be gay or something
The thought crossed my mind once in season 1 but it's just like how Catradora looks cute but without the obvious feelings from at least one person. People excuse any ships as long as it's straight tbh. But I could also say the same about nonstraight ships. I just want well developed relationships, is that too much too ask?
Femke Broere wdym?
@@milesgreen7853 you tried to call Tammy out, but she agreed with your point whole heartedly and ran with it. Hence, the bait, your response, and the switch, her's
this is like when j.k. rowling said dumbledore was gay two weeks after the last harry potter book was published
Aah, classic. 😭
☺he's what-
@@chloeexe9949 nothing wrong with being gay,
Just how J.K Rowling is messy with her creations 😭
@@hat7475 yes sorry i didnt mean to imply there was something wrong with being gay, its just that in my 5+ years of being somewhat immersed in the world, this is the first time im hearing about this-
@@chloeexe9949 no worries! I figured you were just taken aback because J.K likes to admit things after it ended ,😅
And wow for real? It was sorta trending. But hey, now you know ! 🕴️
Korra isnt really queerbaiting in my opinion because ALL of the relationships are just as poorly written
Dramaticist it is because both women are straight them become lesbians for no reason. Same in rwby.
@@Rose_Wolf_1625-ss5rh
Oh damn. A war will happen in this thread
Holy shit! You are the first gay person I have seen who actually critiqued that "relationship". It came right out of no where. Seriously, it was never built up or alluded to. Such laziness
Nah, Id agree with you if they didnt use Korrasmi to sell comics. It was totally a marketing move
@@zerotodona1495 People can be bi and pan my friend. They do exist.
I feel like queerbaiting is often done because parents wouldn't let their children watch a series if they knew there was an official lgbtq+ couple.
There should be no excuse for anime or 16+ series though
Mica This represents everything that is wrong with western animation: the fact that the producers of such shows have to make their show politically correct or else they would have a bunch of helicopter/"christian" parents berating on their asses for showing two people of the same gender making out.
@@juwanbantug5465 News flash, the world isn't perfect.
Yes I think so too. My mom is one such person, if there's LGBT+, it's banned, and potentially the entire company that made it. That's why as much as I understand the need for representation in media, it can be hard to want to fight for it when all that it means for you is another show you can't watch....
@@juwanbantug5465 Well the creators have a choice, either young people with such parents see an ambiguous gay character... or such young people see NOTHING. Because the parents won't let them watch it.
Western Animation creators have NO POWER to stop homophobic helicopter parents, the one and ONLY thing they can do is sneak things past such parents and then the next generation won't inherit their parents issues.
My mom let me watch many of them as long as they were age appropriate TwT
See, the thing about Korasami, was the fact that the writers COULDN'T make a relationship between the two because Nickelodeon was kinda homophobic and had the shit "think of the kids" mentality. The writers were forced to put in slight but not easily noticable hints. They started hints at in season 2/3 and were finally able to commit at the end of the series.
Also them walking into the portal was literally their first date
bless their souls for making comics
@@aysu fr!!! Their relationship in the comics is pretty good representation, if I say so myself
Absolutely agree. Korasami took me completely by surprised when I watched the finale when it aired, but coming back and rewatching the show you can clearly see the little hints that the writers started to build throughout the series and especially in season 4.
Honestly seemed like a marketing scheme at the time by the"fans& audiences " reaction tbh
*H E Y A D O R A*
gets me every time, regardless of whether they're gay or not. (But they are.)
Literally every known gem that exists in steven universe, with the exception of a few, are lgbt because that's what they identify as. Ruby and Sapphire for example. They don't technically have genders, but they identify as female, and they're in a committed relationship: they are lesbian. No queerbaiting here.
They are married and Even Ran away together too
There's also absolutely no queerbaiting with how Pearl felt about Rose. They made that very earnestly clear that Pearl loved Rose wholeheartedly. And it's normal. That's good. No queerbaiting at all.
It’s not really gay if there isn’t straight though
@@pipsdontlie3031 Greg and Rose, Vidalia and Yellowtail, Steven and Connie?
Phantasmic November Saying gems are gay is incorrect because Gems don’t have males so without inter species relationships they can’t be straight. It’s not particularly gay when they can’t be straight
Also that trumpet anime is good example of "Just cause these two are gay, doesnt mean theyre destined to be together"
I just want to watch da *big geyyy* ;-; XD
@@Pigen_ you will, someday, stranger person on the interweb.
@@Pigen_ VIRGIN!
Exactly. I think it's a very good exemple because not only does it show a gay relationship that isn't too dramatic and actually normal, but it also shows an outcome that can happen in any possible relationship : realizing that you don't love the other person.
We have enough stories where we end up alone. We need more cute gay romances that actually stay canon.
"Catradora is queerbaiting"
Me: AHAHAHAHAHA-
(That awkward moment your video does not age well XD)
hahahah
@_-Enchanted-_ I've been seeing the phrase "did not age well" around the internet and I only have a slight idea on what it is can you please tell me cause I've really been wondering about it's true meaning.
Endous Clarifroar
I think it means that people never stop arguing about it? I don’t know truly so I’m just guessing
@@endousclarifroar3738
It means when something you say is proven to be irrefutably false by the passage of time, or when something we thought was really cool turned out to be really bad or cringy.
Example: "catradora is queerbaiting." Because its canon that both Catra and Adora are both Lesbians, AND together by the end of the series. So the build up with them is that: Build up. No bait.
@@ChasehaWing Sorry it took me three weeks to reply, I've only just gotten notified right now and thank you for explaining it to me I really appreciate it.
How do people think SU is queerbaiting? Garnet is literally made up of two gay rocks in love with eachother and they make sure to show it lmao.
I don't really agree with Pearl being in love with Rose, but it is what it is, I guess. Gotta take the good with the bad sometimes?
Exactly and the whole Lapis and jasper thing was meant to represent a toxic relationships abuse etc
I mean comon pearl loves rose
"two gay rocks in love with each other" XD best quote
@@Nicu-vy3gm she only loves rose because of their unbalanced power dynamic. like seriously? a slave falling for their master? that's.... way more than just problematic
@@donniebelladonna4512 and it's not portrayed exactly as a good thing, to the point that Rose never really wanted them to be romantically involved because she knew the power imbalance was there.
Man I wish people would cut SU some slack and look at why there are themes that are considered problematic and what the story is saying about those themes, instead of condemning it for having said themes at all.
I heard that Bubbline was always meant to be a thing, but due to Adventure Time being on CN they had to literally make it confirmed the last episode due to LGBTQ censorship in other countries, and that they might get the show taken down or something. So they wait until the last episode because, hey, the series is over now :)
I saw the fan art on Facebook back in the early 2010s and I can't believe the shipping predicted the future.
_"MY LIFE IS A LIE!"_
@Elisa Castro the relationship never stopped being developed, watch some bubbleline compilations u can see their relationship progress w small thing its the best chef kisses
@@haruwu9556 thats why she said properly
Steven universe is so upfront with their characters being gay AND CHARACTERS
sam4lifee vlogs, gaming& more you do that by hiring lgbt writers that know that real lgbt people have a personality
Um, a show with aliens is LGBT...?
Hmm...can see cross species mating and fluidity, but not LGBT. Mainly because they are aliens and they can be whatever.
Bradley Donner The gems (other then steven) use female pronouns (well most gems)
Hoes mad
Technically not having any gender is still non-binary
I... Have my own set of rules on how to make LGBT characters:
1) If they're LGBT, it should be planned from the beginning.
2) Make them interesting, with their own virtues and flaws (Like any other character in existence)
3) Do not take a pre-existing character and make him LGBT (Do we really want to see a gay Optimus Prime?)
Agreed.
Jk Rowling should take some fucking notes
Idk y’all gay Optimus prime sounds pretty good /j
Personally the sentence "There was no explanation they were bisexual" is kinda.. idk. You don't need to scream your sexuality around so people know you're gay,bi whatever.
That's the reason why I don't understand why people assume the sexuality of someone or a character, if it's cus there is gay fanart or smth like that, they always say "They never said they were gay", yea, they never said they were straight either.
If you’re talking about LoK I agree and I think they hint it decently well with how much they could
Except just because they're not screaming to the sky doesn't mean you can't have hints throughout the the series.which they didn't.
Bow has two dads in she ra and they’re really adorable
True haha
I mean like realistically Queen Angella and King Micah were the only actual official straight relationship in the whole show unless I missed something. (Not counting insinuated ships but like, the public relationships)
Aidan C.D. Well now it’s pretty tied up.
Gay:
Kyle + Rogelio
Catra + Adora
Lance + George
Spinerella + Netossa
Straight:
Angela + Micah
Seahawk + Mermista
Bow + Glimmer
Entrapta + Hordak
I think She-Ra was pretty well made.
KatsisVi who’s lance and George? Am I dumb? Have I missed them? HAVE I JUST MISSED TWO IMPORTANT CHARACTERS?!??
@@br12_ they're Bow's dads lmao
Why is being gay as a trend???? Just put a gay character in and don’t make it the primary focus.
because its seen as an easy way for shows and media to be trending on Twitter and other social medias. Then all the "fans" can just go "LESSSSBIAAAANSSS" all day long and if u point out any flaws ur seen as homophobic
Because some people make it a big deal, when it should just be a normal relationship and people shouldn't lose their heads over a relationship
Rose_Wolf_1625 True. But then, when people start to criticize it or point out any flaws in the work, they will get called a homophobic or be referred to as an angry or jealous straight person.
We're taking baby steps, very very very tiny baby steps......
That is what I am doing in a book I am writing, while there is an overarching war plot there is a romantic subplot between 2 male characters, already dating from chapter 4 (the beginning of the story basically), their relationship evolves and by the end I was thinking to go in either of 2 ways, one of them dies right as the other is asking his hand in marriage (there is a war going on after all, someone could die) or both get married by the end.
I know it's a year late, but you are wrong on Korrasami thing, the creators had outlined Korra and Asami to be together, that was their endgoal if they got their way, and eventually they did. But they couldn't do it thanks to Nick..
Oh and also, the She-Ra things, guess they were gay, and they literally showed it throughout the show..
Except every season after one wasn't planned, so going to say he has a point.
@@fightingmedialounge519 You mean Korrasami? Or Catradora?
God Korra they only planned one season
@@midnightmorgue9533 Yes, but they had planned to do Korrasami in season 1 but couldn't. Also, they had originally planned to make Asami an equalist, but they liked her too much so they made her a hero instead.
God oh cool I didn’t know they planned it in season one I know that nick wouldn’t let them be together in season 4 and that’s why I got annoyed at the video saying they were queer bating
I thought queerbating was more about being ambigous, so the producers can say "nah, yall judt imagining stuff" aligning with the mainstream audience while at the same time pullin in LGBTQ+ folk to watch. Not stupid identity politics and trends....
I do want more gay characters but I want them to be well written with flaws & personality and I want the relationships to be developed and make sense and not come out of no where!
Why is that so hard to do!!!!
Same here.
@@Zvwry "already fucking in elementary school" uh. care to. rephrase that?
Either they don't have the motivation, or they do but are victims of executive meddling to "appeal to a wider audience" (aka not alienate homophobes). Try some LGBT+ novels. They're lightyears ahead of TV. My personal recommendations are Wonders of the Invisible World by Christopher Barzak, We are the Ants by Shaun David Hutchinson, and the Timekeeper trilogy by Tara Sim. Though I'm perfectly willing and able to give a lot more recommendations if you want.
@@karkatvantas9557 please do give more recommendations, i'd love to read these in my spare time!
@@needmeachillplaylistforstu3495
Simon VS. the Homo Sapiens Agenda by Becky Albertalli is about a closeted gay kid called Simon Spier. Simon has an email relationship with an anonymous boy named Blue, who he knows is also closeted and goes to his school. Simon accidentally leaves his email logged in on the school computer and this leads to him getting blackmailed. There're sort of two books. But they're companion novels. The second one is called Leah on the Offbeat, and the main character is a bisexual girl. I haven't read it.
City of Spires by Claudie Arsenault is about the power struggle between the city of Isandor and the brutal and domineering Myrian empire. The Myrians have an enclave in Isandor and they exert their power on the locals with great abandon. Lord Diel wants to unite the great houses of Isandor to introduce laws to limit the Myrians' power, and possibly even drive them out of the city. But first he has to contend with the old grudges between the houses. Meanwhile, Lord Arathiel Brasten, a man from ages past who has been stuck in a place where time doesn't flow, has finally returned to Isandor. Practically every character is LGBT+ in some way, whether they be gay, bi, asexual, transgender, genderfluid, agender, demisexual. City of Spires runs the full spectrum. There are currently two books and I don't know if there'll be more because I've only read the first. The first book is City of Strife.
All for the Game by Nora Sakavic is about a boy called Neil Josten. Neil is the orphaned son of a crime family who has been hiding out after watching the Moriyama crime family do something terrible. All he has left is his love of Exy, a fictional sport. So when the coach of the Foxes, a team of outcasts and misfits who need a second chance, wants to sign Neil, he reluctantly agrees. Unfortunately, this will place him in the public eye. Neil makes a deal that he will leave the team before he can encounter Riko Moriyama at a big tournament. I've only read the first book, but I've heard that Neil is demisexual and given the focus, I'm pretty sure he ends up with another boy. There are three books, the first is The Foxhole Court.
I'll Give You the Sun by Jandy Nelson follows a pair of twins, Noah and Jude. In the past, they were inseparable but nowadays their relationship is strained and estranged. The book follows Noah in the past, and Jude in the present, as the story unravels to show us what destroyed their relationship, and how it might be fixed. Noah is gay. There's only one book.
History is All You Left Me by Adam Silvera is about a boy named Griffin, whose ex-boyfriend, and supposed love of his life, Theo, dies in a drowning accident. The only one who can understand how Griffin feels is Theo's last boyfriend before he died, Jackson, who Griffin hates. The book is set in two timelines, one in the past which explores how Griffin and Theo got together, and one in the present in the aftermath of his death. There is only one book.
What if it's Us by Becky Albertalli and Adam Silvera is about two boys who meet in a post office. They both like each other, but they fail to get each other's numbers or anything that might lead them to one another before they part ways. They can't stop thinking about each other, so they each start to look for the other one. There is only one book. I didn't think it was that good, but I figure I should mention it anyway.
We are the Ants by Shaun David Hutchinson is about a boy called Henry Denton. Henry has a pretty crappy life. His dad left when he was young, his mum is distant, his grandma has alzheimers and his brother is outright abusive. The one good thing Henry had was his boyfriend, Jesse. And then Jesse committed suicide. So, quite understandably, Henry is severely depressed. On top of that, Henry has been routinely abducted by aliens his entire life. And then they abduct him with an ultimatum. The world will end unless he presses a button to save it. Only problem is Henry's not sure the world deserves saving. He has 148 days to decide. There is only one book.
Shades of Magic by V.E. Schwab is about a man named Kell, who is an antari, someone with the power to cross between four different parallel versions of London. There's Red London, where Kell comes from, which is full of magic, Grey London, which is our world in the reign of King George IV, White London, a wreck where magic is dying, and the people are ruled by whoever is powerful and brutal enough to take the throne. And then there's Black London, which destroyed itself with magic and was sealed off before it could infect the other worlds. Officially, Kell is an interdimensional courier, carrying correspondence between the rulers of each London. Unofficially, Kell is a smuggler who sells artefacts from each world to people in the others, which is highly illegal. Then Kell ends up in Red London with an artefact that shouldn't exist, a piece of Black London. Two of the major characters are bisexual and the author has implied that none of the main characters are fully straight. There are three books, the first is A Darker Shade of Magic. There will apparently be a sequel series focusing on the bisexual characters, but there is no concrete news of it.
Wonders of the Invisible World by Christopher Barzak is about this boy called Aidan Lockwood who lives in a small town in the American south. Aidan is just sort of drifting through life with no purpose. He has no friends, and he's not that close with his family, and has no idea what to do with his life. Then his best childhood friend Jarrod returns from his city life and starts to rekindle his relationship with Aidan. And he tells Aidan things he doesn't remember, but definitely should. Such as the strange man in the black coat who only Aidan could see. Together they team up to get Aidan's memory back, and along the way they discover the history of the Lockwood family.
how some people think shows like SU are queerbaiting really baffles me. like,, how the hell is it queerbaiting? ruby and sapphire got *MARRIED.* i don’t know how much gayer it can get for a TV-Y 7 cartoon show.
the only way it could get gayer is getting a stair more above
That wouldn't make it for kids anymore tho
I agree, the show is literally about LGBT representation, Rebecca can express herself throughout this show.
SU is great uwu
I don't watch SU but I thought they don't have a gender?
@@alexbjarnesen8905 technically, they don't. They are aliens. But it's justs a excuse so they don't get censor imo.
@@alexbjarnesen8905 They dont but they do have pronouns, most gems are she/her but we got a he/him fusion (Rainbow Quartz 2.0)
If you want a good anime with an explicit gay romantic relationship, i recommend Given and Bloom Into You.
P.S. Sorry if my english is bad
Not to worry, your English is really good
YESSS GIVEN GIVEN GIVEN
GOD I LOVE THAT ANIME
@@aspillust ME TOO
YESS I LOVE BOTH OF THEM THE MANGA FOR BLOOM INTO YOU IS ESPECIALLY GOOD
CATRADORA IS REAL
Adventure Time they're bisexual just in a gay relationship. Doesn't stop them from being by bi no.
Both of them have been stated to have had boyfriends at some point in time
@@stevepensando2593 making them bisexual
Which characters are you talking about?
@@gowonsorbitch7293 Princess Bubblegum and Marceline
@@stevepensando2593 Doesn't make them less bisexual.
They do that with straight people too... poorly written romance is just poorly written romance
@That One It’s just baiting in general.
OH THEY DO THAT A LOT
Emotional blueballing
Oh, look, a comment about Starco!
But dude, there’s a difference between gay and straight couples in mainstream media
@@Libra0Rising yeah, lets watch an HBO series and say that straight baiting doesn't exist.
Granted, these are not very applicable examples in children's cartoons...
but the shera thing... they did give us actual romantic tension
Right. The thing with She-ra was that it was never the fact that they were both girls that catradora didn't become canon. It was just treated as a normal relationship throughout the show. They had tension just like how straight people have romantic tension in shows.
"It's not the shows fault that two people you want to be gay arent gay"
Catradora/Catdora: *Ahem* We are cannon now.
Naruto sasuke are character people want to be gay. But aren't. I find it weird when someone ship IRL people who are stright.
@@mikethepokemaster2012 Funny thing is I heard from somewhere Naruto and Sasuke actually were planned to get together but the manga editor didn't let the writer do so, this isn't true ofc and was made up by the toxic part of the shipping fandom who were hardcore Sasunaru fans- but still, the ship just seems better than who they ended up with
@@AmonicCrow they honestly had more chemistry with each other than with their respective wives XD
@@Cosmicdaydreamer FR, I know it was intended to be brotherly, but there is such a thing as a Bromance man
I think the peak of gay representation is Mr Ratburn.
"Hey look Mr. Ratburn is gay!"
"Cool. Back to whatever else we were doing before we knew this."
Cory the Norm wait Alabama’s known for incest but they didn’t allow the gays
@@bettynoirgirl3981 yeah cuz the Bible
Afro King But incest
@@bettynoirgirl3981 incest is in the Bible lol
@@AfroKing. I can't tell if you're trying to provide reason why the bible is dumb or why incest is ok
"Yaoi is not bad" I see you're a man of culture as well
I feel like while a lot of anime weebs can have pretty weird ships, kiribaku is one ship that would actually be great lgbt rep. It makes sense within the storyline, and would honestly be really good for both characters, especially with how they both have independant character growth, and yet _choose_ to support each other the majority of the time. It honestly gives me stucky parallels, two characters that are very important to each other, even within the plot, yet work strongly as independant characters as well. It would be great lgbt rep.
I couldn't agree more, I'm hoping it does become cannon (especially knowing Horikoshi has included trans and bisexual characters in the past) though I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen just because he isn't allowed to, I haven't looked into it much but I know there is a lot of censorship in most animes when it comes to anything in the lgbt+ community.
Smol spoilers relating to season 4
All Might and Nighteye are confirmed to be ex-boyfriends though that wasn't made clear in the anime (at least the sub) like it was in the manga
Honestly the ship I actually appreciate in BnHA is Kiribaku not because its "gay" but because it would be SO NICE to have representation of Bromance. I've never seen such representation in animes I've watched and it would be nice to see a couple that feels platonic yet sweet and loving.
@@larkscall8590 wait what All Might and Nighteye were ex-boyfriends??
Okay if its confirmed thats surprising but at the same time its hilarious to me. I don't know why.
@@eitakou Ah I'm sorry I looked it up for clarification and apparently is was a mistranslation, it was meant as they broke up their partnership as heroes not a relationship oops > .
@Broken Binary
Yo, don’t be spreading misinformation like that.
With Shiro they could've developed it. I mean, at least they could've given him an actual love interest over time with d e v e l o p m e n t
yeah! i was wondering, how did they meet? how are they as a couple? what is curtis' personality???
Finally someone said it!!
I believe that many shows are honestly trying to be more progressive but they go about doing it in a way that comes off as unnatural or disrespectful and can be accused of Queer-baiting.
It’s like when Luke Cage got his own solo comic back in the 70s. As the first black superhero to receive his own solo comic many people thought it would be progressive but it was clearly written by a white man who knew nothing about real black culture and he was just writing from his pre-conceived stereotypes of black people. Marvel comics was obviously not trying to offend or disrespect anyone and be progressive as always, however due to the lack of knowledge about the culture of the black community it all came off as wrong.
Now given time people have become more knowledgeable about how stereotypes like that aren’t how real people go about their daily lives, so I think given enough time the same will happen for LGBTQ+ characters.
@Qwerty Bastard They do have different dynamics, but they have them just like every other relationship. Also, they aren't rare, and it's a little sad that you think they are. Although, maybe you live in a country that doesn't have many gay people and relationships. But it is definitely not rare. Maybe a minority compared to straight relationships, but not rare lol.
@@sonydelha1784
I think he refered rare. For the number.
Thaere is nothing sadin admiting tjere are a minority by far. That is suposed to be the point eith LGBT and similar asociations on make society notice them.
@@sonydelha1784 Gay relationships ARE rare, that's a fact, at least more rare than straight relationships.
I live your little SMILE profile pic, you cultured person of great taste
hell yeah, this is essentially what I think too. over time, queer relationships representation will get better and better and people will look back on Voltron like "damn what an embarrassing first step"
I remember seeing people in the Voltron fandom actually like Shiro's after credit marriage and I'm like wow I feel so sorry for how simple some people can be.
Don’t you like klance tho?
when I saw the after credit my dad was there n he was pissed 💀
@@min_says_h3110 tbh I was pissed that the only gay canon ship had failed because I wanted LGBTQ+ representation. I didn't go "wow I wanna fetishise people so imma complain that one of the only bits of representation my community gets was taken away.
At first, I was excited. Then I realized that it was quite clearly shoved in at the last minute. I mean that part got leaked and they changed the guy he got married to. And the fact that it was the last frame of the entire show pissed me off. The picture of them in front of Allura’s statue should’ve been the last shot in the show.
Cain you don’t have to write death threats. You can be a normal, civil person.
some scenes between keith nd lance were heavily romantic-coded though, and many of the producers and even jeremy shada had confirmed that there would be LGBT rep in the show and also hinted at klance .. it kinda hurt that they didn't follow through and forced allurance to be together when it was so damn rushed and allura had shown no interest in lance in the former seasons . allura and lance were so much more than just love interests but it seems like that's all they focused on in the last two seasons
that boy on boy love thing youre talking about is called yaoi. and yeah its not queerbaiting, but it is fetishizing and objectifying. as a guy attracted to guys it makes me so uncomfortable to see girls treat us like. idk ur "little sin babies uwu nya nyawhsdejwsxkdlspdlsp" its just bad representation.
It's so fucking weird when people do that. I came out to a friend and immediately got asked if I was a top or bottom. LIKE BRUH
In she-ra there’s no “romantic moments” catra and adora literally do an amourous dip at a ball with adora’s leg right in catra’s no no square like mMMMMMMM SIS that seems p gay to me
*Thats very gay of you, Catra.*
thank u omg. what about the s4 oh god
@@klarastopar7946 YEAH RIGHT, FINALLY SOME TALKS ABOUT S4 I WATCHED IT ENTIRELY IN ONE DAY AND I HEARD NO ONE TALKING ABOUT IT THANKS
@@ninaklora7521 IT HURTED DIDNT IT. BUT WHEN DOUBLE TROUBLE TURNED INTO ADORA (THEY OBVIOUSLY KNOWS HOW OTHER ACT) AND THEY GAVE HER FUCKING HAND ON HER FACEWE ALL KNOW THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS REAL OMG OMG OMG
Haley Northpie IKR
So, don’t include “gay people”. Include “people”- some of whom will be gay
Reuben Fromow same with women
Rose_Wolf_1625 no I’m saying a character should be a character who happens to be a women yes women are represented but in things like Disney that’s their only defining feature.
No not really that’s not why it’s said also there are plenty of gay characters in popular shows but I agree there should be more
The women thing is interesting- nowadays, male characters get more lines in Disney films than female characters. The reason for this is because Disney is actually including less female minor characters, even though the leads are predominantly women.
This comes as a result of male characters being made the “norm”. Don’t do it! Look at the characters you’ve put in your narrative, and ask yourself if you’re viewing male as a default. You might be surprised!
why would that be offensive. we aren’t defining that as you or anything. there’s straight people and asian people and thicc people. it just is what it is.
I'm still missed that DreamWorks threw Shadam at us and then (excuse my language) ducking killed Adam!!!! Like wtalf!?
actually it was just the writers,, they blamed it on dreamworks though,,,,, don’t even get me started on how poorly executed voltron was and how bad the writers were
And (don't murder me) the fact that they threw away Klance which in my opinion had so much potential just makes me so saddd 😭
@@tasha3329 they could have developed keith and Lance relationship better for representation instead of making Shiro gay out of nowhere
@@daniellechoez3798 true true Keith and Lance were clearly meant to end up together but they just gave up on it it's so unfair :(
@@tasha3329 ni they a
Weren't they both like woman. They were ships people wanted together. But they weren't gay
Nobody
Blizzard: *Jack Morrison/ Soldier 76 had a relationship with a guy the fan base had never met and we’ll never bring up again*
To be fair, that plot point was brought up quite naturally imo
As a pansexual female, I do not get offended by yaoi or Yuri, people make plenty of shows about straight couples and that’s fine.....it only becomes a problem when people start comparing the yaoi or Yuri couples to real people, that’s just wrong. Otherwise I really don’t see anything wrong with the yaoi or Yuri genre I mean they are just characters in a relationship after all and they aren’t real.
Yaoi and Yuri sometimes fetishizes being gay or a lesbian, which is kind of gross. But I completely agree that comparing LGBT couples to "real" straight ones is really bad.
@@rosefaetum Yaoi/Yuri
Have some true gems, it's like other gay shows that focus on.. well, Being gay. Citrus is a great example! I'm not one for drama anime but it was frustrating, cute, and sad. It really didn't fetishized them and made them more human.
Not like there not human, but
You know some yuri/yaoi do that.
I prefer a series called Tadakoro san, even tho it's more shojo ai, it shows genuine interest of romance between two girls.
Ain't even gay, BUT THAT SERIES IS SO DARN CUTE!
I like girls and tbh I like yuri 😏 but definitely when people sexualize homosexual relationships it's pretty uncomfortable.
Try bloom into you
Two characters: *exist in same universe*
Fandom: OMG SHIP
Two characters: *get along and are best friends*
Fandom: OMG SHIP
@@SpeedyWeedyYT they don't even need to be from the same universe, let alone the same artistic medium... They ship fictional characters and real people...
@@SpeedyWeedyYT dude there're people who ship Elsa and Jack Frost and that ship is very famous too so I wouldn't be surprised 🙄😑😑
@@chikita9656 True. I feel like some people think this is new or just trendy with the newer generations. BUT. Ancient Greeks had their own 'ship' at the time, Achilles/Patroclus. Another very popular old ship or the 'first' ship was Kiri/Spock back in 1970s. Today it's just easier to find and much more versatile
Two characters: *want to kill eachother*
Fandom: OMG SHIP
Catradora is real and Noelle planned it from the beginning im so happy
the she-ra part aged like milk
Klance would've been the easier way out for voltron instead of a random ass flashback. Like rivals to friends to lovers is a trope but AN EASIER ONE IF YOU WANTED LGBT CHARACTERS
They literally said they would add it and all we got was shiro
I haven't gotten that deep into Voltron, but my sister who has says that Klance doesn't have that much build-up in the show and the shippers are basing everything off of one or two scenes. How accurate is this?
Also, our profile pics are similar and that makes me happy
@@acheerfullittlenerd9000 honestly it's her opinion but klance's relationship really got to grow. They went from trying to one up each other and fighting to accepting that they are going to have to get along to save the universe to them literally giving each other compliments and advice+watching the sunset together. But nothing is 100% accurate in the show bc of allurance endgame
@@aarondixon5438 I see, maybe it just depends on how you interpret things. Granted, I've seen shippers go crazy for less
exactly, they had all the pieces, all they had to do is having them have an easy fight against each other, confess, boom they're together.
their relationship might not develop in the most consistent way, but to me it's the most believable ship since from the very first season it seemed to be set up to "rivals to lovers" kind of dynamic.
To be fairly honest, Steven Universe literally brought LIGHT to the lgbt back in 2014-2015 in kids cartoon better than LOK which then wasn’t even asked by a kid but a teenager during conventions. Plus gay marriage, with a daring attempt to stop other countries censoring by ruby putting on a dress to make clear, THEY BOTH ARE GIRLS DEAL WITH IT.
Really, I thought they were Space Rocks? Shows what I know, LOL!
I was only annoyed by Ruby being in a dress because...
*Literally the previous episode depicted her as a "manly" lesbian with her being in a cowB O Y outfit*
And then she just... wears a dress?
But sapphire... i s n t?
Couldn't they B O T H wear dresses then? Isnt that more saying that they're gay couple and not hetero one?
Or A T L E A S T hint that Ruby has a "girly" side.
Or at th end of that "imma become lone cowBOY gem" episode Ruby can embrase her feminine side and decided she'll wear dress on their wedding?
Its just came off as trying to rewrite Ruby personality for no reason other then to say HA to countries who thought Ruby was a male rather then RUBY deciding to wear wedding gown herself
I mean technically they don’t have genders but yEaH I gEt WhAt YouRe SaYinG
Alex Globs they use female pronouns and have female physiques. Don’t try to act like you in the beginning seasons that they were just “aliens”. Doesn’t take a genius to obviously show its a gay marriage. Literally every gem beside steven n rainbow quartz 2.0 have a female voice actor.
ShadowTHEhedgehog The ULTIMATE Life Form I mean most marriages have either both wearing a dress or one in a dress and the other a suit
Dude, I thought you were about to roast Yuri on ice and I was about to T H R O W H A N D S 😅😂
SAME OMFGGG
Ok, season two of the hollow came out on Netflix and I think this is a VERY good representation of a gay character. When Adam came out as gay to Kai, Kai just said, "oh! You never told me that!" And they continued with what they were doing. They showed that Kai supported Adam and cared, but didn't make it a huge deal or have Adam's character revolve around that for the rest of the series. After that, they treated him the same and their friendship didn't change a bit. I think this is a great way to have a gay character 🙂
lmao he's just like: why tf did i not know about this earlier and i LIVE for that.
I love that show, and that was such a good moment in it
Tumblr: "Confirm their gay."
Creator: "They are and married."
Also Tumblr: "You're ruining my ship!"
???
give an exact example please
nah nah nah that’s insta and twitter
I-
dude this tumblr narrative is outdated af. i'm on tumblr and it's the most peaceful platform rn, that sounds more like twitter.
@@coolblue5841 LOL EXACFLY MY REACTION
THANK YOU DEAR LORD SOMEONE FINALLY STOOD UP TO VOLTRONS BS. IM TIRED OF ALL THE FANS MAKING EXCUSES FOR VOLTRON WHEN ITS SIMPLY JUST QUEERBAITING
Seriously ¡!! All everyone does in that nightmare of a fandom is whine about queerbaiting not to be rude but what kind of rock where you living in ?!
Carla Carrero I know quite a few people ignoring the problem with this, I’m not entirely saying that everyone has issues with this. I truly believe the reason being is because we’re annoyed about this issue. It’s happened so many times in other shows, movies and books that we were hoping that voltron would’ve helped but it ended up making the situation worse. So in conclusion, the fandom including myself are burnt out trying to make media properly show lgbt representation
Carla Carrero also I’m not saying the whole “blackmailing klance” situation was okay, that was VERY disrespectful to the voltron staff and humiliating to the rest of the fans but the staff missed out on having a healthy, reasonable lgbt relationship in their show
Alex Luna lance and keith didnt need to be gay in order to have good lgbt rep there are other characters that couldve been the rep also I feel like maybe if klance shippers didnt bash on other ships and were nice then maybe klance couldve been a thing but that seems really unlikely because in the original Voltron allurance and lotura and maybe kallura were a thing also klance is a yaoi thing so yeah
As much as I like Voltron I absolutely got sooooo angry with the last 2 seasons, because everything was taking forFUCKINGever and ugh they took Shiro and threw it to the trash can...
Suddenly gay, suddenly he was not on the main 6 characters and got none further development.
And in the end he was married to Mysterious Gay Dude no one knows...
WTF?! And its not that there's anything wrong with adding LBGT+ characters, but IDK they could have grabbed some of the new pilots and make them gay, develop a love story in the last 2 seasons, idk something :/
What still gets me is voltron coded Lance and Keith so heavy, even putting the bi colors in the background during some Lance scenes, and didn't code Shiro at all imo but oh look get hype for s7 where we meet Adam for literally 2 seconds and never hear of him again after Shiro looks sadly at his memorial real quick -_-
I love one of your comments near the middle of the video. Sometimes, even when the two characters do have feelings for each other, it just doesn’t happen. And I think that applies to all relationships. Not just lgbtq. I’ve had that in my own life. I have a girl friend who I’ve never felt so strongly about before but she lives on the opposite side of the world. So eventually I told her how I felt and we both admitted that we liked each other but that a relationship given our circumstances simply wasn’t possible. I think anime (and by extension all forms of media) should consider this more often. It’s honestly a really powerful message that will get across to people. I’ll drop one example of this. From the inheritance cycle (One of my all time fav book series) the main character falls in love with an elf. Of course it starts with people thinking of the idea that eventually he’ll break down her walls and they’ll get together. But no. She grows even more annoyed by his advances until he learns that he should treasure her friendship. This culminates at the end of the series where they both are separated by their duties. And it shatters his heart but he knows that it’s the right thing to do. And that’s simply beautiful writing. Why is this plot device not used more often?! It’s heart wrenching and honestly a really mature thing to do!!! Sorry for the long comment but I just feel that as a person who adores all forms of story telling mediums, this is a shame it isn’t used more. It’s realistic in a way that some people just absolutely miss. That’s my spiel anyway. Hope some people agree with me.
Thank God I'm not the only one who thinks Korrasami is so badly done and out of the blue. When I found out that Korrasami was canon years after I watched the series I was so surprised, but chalked it up to my past ignorance about LGBT even being a possible thing (I was quite young and I live in a conservative society). Now I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Especially that the bulk of the relationship happened between season 3 & 4
I straight up had a good cry about it. Brian Konietzko's "heteronormative lenses" comment was especially insulting. The more I desperately wanted to find someone supportive to help me work out my gripes with the Legend of Korra and try to get some support from my friends who watched some of the show, the more that pesky Dunning-Kruger effect kicked in and they assumed I was attacking them and their sexuality because I didn't like how Bryan and Mike used queerbaiting as a shield from criticism. They straight up turned toxic on me. I absolutely despise the Legend of Korra and Korra's character because of it. I can't even bear to look at my Korra DVDs or cosplay anymore because of how much it hurt me.
@@DecadentCupcake123 oof bless you man, i hope your friends realise that you can hate how a gay relationship is written while still supporting lgbt at the same time
I was surprised too ( I don't think they match at all I prefer makorra ) I tried to tell my friends that they will end up together at the end
No one belived me ;-;
@@carisoul2180I support it too like I'm an extreme shipper of catradora in she ra and the princesses of power but I just don't think korrasami is the best match
Did anyone else see Ouran high school in the compilation of gay couples, dude that’s a straight relationship XD
I think it was reference to koaru (the second twin) who is a confirmed homosexual. Also there was that school of annoying ass girls who were probably lesbians. But, you're kinda right.
@@missmaddylicious5865 kaoru was gay? wtf i haven't watched the show in years (and haven't read the manga) but didn't both the twins want to fuck haruhi?
@@zarsiw honestly I thought they wanted to fuck each other
MissMaddy licious kaoru isn’t gay, it was planned for him to be gay but he isn’t
@@missmaddylicious5865 pretty sure those girls were full on closeted lesbians knowing the shows humor
Pearl and Roses relationship in a nutshell: *S T O C H O L M S Y N D R O M E*
@Kayla Horenstein Pearl was technically kept as a personal slave at first, but I slightly disagree with the original comment.
Stockholm syndrome is not only about kidnapping tho...
@Kayla Horenstein You're not wrong. Stockholm Syndrome appears in cases of kidnapping but its also a thing in not forced relationships. For example when one person becames toxic, the other doesnt really know its wrong and eventually gets used to it
I always preferred to the headcanon that the two were NEVER in a relationship, and Pearl just always loved Rose, but never got the chance to be with her in a romantic sense.
Besides, at the end, Rose chose Greg.
@@thefvguy5648 That's not a headcannon, that literally what happen.
pretty late to this but this was a pretty good video talking about queerbaiting. however I will say (as someone who identifies as male and is attracted to men) yes, gay content that’s geared towards fujoshis (women who like fetishizing gay relationships) are usually not queerbaiting however they’re still just as bad. content aimed at fujos are usually made just to fetishize gay men (no surprise considering that fujo content is usually made by cishet women who also fetishize gay men) and I don’t think it’s right to dismiss it as “borderline hentai” when it’s genuinely just a fetishization / gross obsession with seeing gay men together. there are so many instances where a series will have gay characters who are absolutely terrible (like I’m talking about characters that are abusers, criminals, or even worse), but fujos don’t bat an eye because “omg it has two men kissing!”. I’m not saying people can’t consume any media that’s made that way or that anyone who watches it is a terrible person, but if it’s the main / only content that you watch, then it’s only normal for actual gay people to feel uncomfortable with you. also I will mention that if a gay person chooses to consume any fujo media, it’s completely fine and it’s valid that they don’t want any cishet fetishists to consume it especially since some of the only well written stories and representations of gay relationships are still unfortunately made by fujos for fujos to continue fetishizing gay men.
Yoi, bubbiline, she ra, Steven universe, I don't think these are queerbating
Agreed
@Muffinishere Yuri On Ice
Because they aren't (well except for she ra cuz i havent seen it yet), people just like to point fingers when they just need to pay closer attention & stop being overly paranoid. I'm tired of seeing yuri & viktor's story brushed off and seen as "pandering" just cuz of the fanservice, censored kiss, and fujoshis screaming about it. I've seen enough BL anime/manga to know it ain't it
Mam 417 don’t worry. There is literally a lesbian couple introduced at the end of the first(?) season
For sure SU isn't queerbaiting
People don't seem to understand that yaoi and shounen ai are two different genres. Shounen AI is romance. Yaoi is fetish porn
Bara is more realistic than any i guess its more gritty
@@inkchip7351 that’s because Bara is the genre of yaoi actually made by a gay guy
Well no, yaoi is just showing sex between the male characters but it can include fetishes. It's not only fetishes though.
@@BloodInTheStrawberries That logic is stupid. I read het, yaoi and yuri and am completely straight. If a story has likeable characters then i don't give crap what their sexuality is. Some of my favorite fictional couples are in yaoi and yuri stories.
I think the more common term is actually BL (Boys Love) even in Japan, and not shounen ai.
Heres a tutorial on how to write a gay romance arc or story:
Write a romance story about 2 people. Yes. Its that easy. Wow 💀
CATRADORA IS R E A L
JK. Rowling: **shaking intensifies**
Pb and marceline were always a couple tf are people sayin there was even a episode where u see them living together and being old ladies loool
Ikr, some of these shows actually did being gay well
but the show wouldnt be explicit about it until the finale. even the creators would dodge all questions about it. if you look at the ep "hunson and marcy" that one is filled with frustrating queerbait.
pb x marcy is certainly the most feelsy of all the gay relationships, the one im most attached to, but i got sick of the AT crew messing with my feelings
@@tipsy634 dude. that's how you develope relationships. gay or straight, if the characters weren't in a relationship since the beginning, and you want them to be, you have to develope it. drop hints that they're in love, casually build it up from there. that's usually how healthy real life relationships work. not to mention, that they never used Bubbline as a way to get people to watch the show, which is literally the definition of queerbaiting. in fact, i believe there was only one time they explicitly mentioned it outside of the show. it's not queerbaiting to write realistic relationships.
@@tipsy634
There was also a looooot of development in the AT comics and some bits about their relationship that didn't make it in the series appeared there. Especially their past together and how they both worked in rebuilding their relationship again.
It's really wholesome.
j ikr
At least with korra the comics following it korra and Asami actually did have a ton of development after the series ended (because most likely the writers didn’t have nick breathing down their throats)
this is why i love the show to owl house.
SPOILERS!
in the owl house there is a main character confirmed as Bi with a love interest confirmed as a lesbian who is also apart of the main cast, it’s also not done at the end of the series it’s actually the focus of an episode with Luz asking amity out. I honestly love this show because they are treated as normal people and it actually does represent how cute and awkward 14 year old relationships can be. The two are so cute togther and the enemies to lovers was also done extremely well
There is also a canon non-binary character dating one of the main three who happens to be a girl. The pronouns are used correctly and it’s treated as normal honestly. Then there’s also willows dads, again one of the main cast having two dads and treated as normal