he just like me fr Support My Butt: Patreon: / veridisjoe Merch: crowdmade.com/... Follow Me: linktr.ee/cuck... Music In Order Of Appearance: pastebin.com/u...
@@VeridisJoe honestly, I never thought it was gonna be as bad as the internet made it out to be. No show can flop so badly from just its trailer like High Guardian Spice, however, I do feel they’ve somewhat struggled to fully manage the cast of characters.
You just lost me when you said it's just angry internet white men. No. I'm Asain, and everyone who also hate this stuff is Latino. Heck, the recent Black Samurai controversy was caused by a WHITE man faking history lying about a retainer being a samurai. Yet for some reason, progressives believe the White guy, not the actual Asains. Because reasons. Man you're a straight up Gringo without saying it
99% of this comment section are Americans calling every none white foreigner who hates your argument white. Yeah I'm not really sure you are pro diversity yourself.
As a black man from New Orleans, I am glad I grew up watching Static Shock and Justice League. That one episode where Static went to Africa, made me proud that I'm black.
Why did he go to Africa? What'd he do there? I haven't seen it since... it aired, really, so I 100% forget it. Sounds like an episode that's interesting.
the animated justice league is just so so good holy. my favs were jon stewart and hawkgirl. And the show still holds up today, I constantly go back and watch it
People will say representation doesn't matter and then get excited over smallest reference to their country in mainstream media. There's little difference between black girls seeing themselves in Ariel and bunch of people on the internet posting "Brazil mentioned" because some anime referenced it, both of those reactions come from similar place and both make people happy. Talk as much as you want about how much you relate to Goku more than any "actual representation" but don't lie to me that you wouldn't have the biggest smile on your face if your favorite show or game randomly referenced your culture. Everyone wants their existence to be recognized in one way or another, that's why we create art.
It rly depends on the person As a Korean American, I was surprised to see Seoul be included in Age of Ultron, and although I was disappointed by how generically hi tech it looked, I appreciated the parts where they showed some of the dirty parts of the city too But South Korean denizens said they weren't happy about the fact that all they saw of their "representation" was a soulless cityscape, and that all it did was increase traffic during shooting Some ppl just don't care about skin deep representations
The same people who hated Zoe Kravitz being casted as Catwoman for*The Batman* are the same one's who wanted Selina Kyle to be played by an Asian actress instead of a white passing latina
@@dankim7831 that's a normal reaction to bad representation tho... when I'm watching a show that features mexico and it's shown as a dry dessert under a yellow filter, obviously I'm not impressed or excited. however if it's featured on a show or movie that values the architecture, history, people, and culture in a beautiful and positive way I get excited and feel a sense of pride. I'm sure it'd be the same for you if you saw a proper representation of your city or country
Peter Parker will always be cool to me but as an Irish-latino the second I found out about Spider-Man 2099 I was like oh damn that’s my Spider-Man. And as a Puerto Rican seeing Miles get two beloved movies and his own game means so much to me.
Yes, I agree with that I feel relatable and represented by Miles Morales. Even though I’m white and Dominican and he’s black and Puerto Rico, I still feel relatability and represented because we’re both from America even though we’re from different Boroughs, and live in America and a Spanish household exactly how my family is to Miles family. Parents Expecting too much from you and putting pressure on you artist and stuff not knowing what going on and feel like you’re better, ultimately through the good and the bad and sometimes the cringe you still love your family and they love you that way I feel related and represented by Miles
While Peter is for ever my favorite but he’s not just Spider-Man anymore we also have Ben main Miles Miguel Anya Gwen and manny more but seeing Peter mile and Miguel on screen together at all filled me with a insane amount of of joy
I felt the same but with Static Shock when first discovered him. Pete is still my boi but Virgil hit a point in kid me that I didn't know existed until I saw him on TV.
THIISSSSS. Peter Parker was at one time probably my favorite superhero but has been moved to second place in recent years because Miles Morales is just so me. I’m monoracially(?) Puerto Rican and grew up influenced by black culture as my primary frame of reference for my experience living in America that I could identity with. Miles personifies all that and really brings it to life and is such a fantastic character. I honestly need to delve delve deeper into Miguel because I know there’s just great stuff out there for me to discover, especially with him coming from a Spanish speaking culture like me, and I also want to take a closer look at Aña Corazon’s stuff, one of the dopest Puerto Rican heroes out there for me. I kinda get culture envy from her and Miles sometimes because they seem so much more in touch than I feel. Ben Rielly also deserves so much more love, I think he stands more for people disenfranchised by capitalism and struggles with identity even more than Peter and that’s so valuable and it’s a shame he gets pushed to the side for being “confusing”
THIS omg. There's something so freeing abt seeing yourself represented onscreen. Being a boricua myself and growing up on media like West Side Story with pretty stereotypical rep of Puerto Ricans, seeing caribbean characters like Miles Morales have made me so unreasonably happy. It's in the little things like seeing a fleeting shot of some Coco Rico during the rooftop party, his conversation with his mom when before he leaves they exchange blessings and also just his general relationship with his mother. He's such a well-written superhero who just happens to be half Puerto Rican, and the casual expressions of our culture throughout the movies make me feel so seen in a refreshing way.
As a Korean American girl, the majority of the characters I've related to the most weren't my race or even my gender. But that doesn't mean I don't find it refreshing when someone I happen to relate to ALSO looks like me. If anything it makes me appreciate a character even more. I think it's a big reason why I was so drawn to Avatar the Last airbender as a kid. I appreciated it for its well written story and characters, but I also was happy to see elements of my own culture celebrated and treated normally in a time where it was normal to be casually racist towards asian people (which still happens a lot to this day but it's definitely a little more taboo now). When you're a poc like myself, living in America and being exposed to racism is something that deeply affects your relationship with yourself and identity. So having a space in my life where I could divulge in media that actually respected my culture provided a brief interlude where I didn't have to worry about what others thought of me for something I had no ability to change. At the end of the day, whether you're aware of it or not, your race, sex, and sexuality DO influence you and how others treat you. They make up who you are and what type of person you end up becoming, so it baffles me when people so adamantly refuse to accept the idea that those same aspects could be prevalent and appreciated in fictional characters. If anything, more diversity and representation opens the gateway for MORE perspectives and stories. It's great that more people can see not only themselves but their culture and identity in media. It opens people to experiences outside of their own and shows others that their stories are also worth telling!
You said it so well, and something about not seeing some aspect of yourself in fictional works you really love. Or mostly portrayed in a way that’s negative. Has always told me. “You are not desirable to be seen by people” and it stings. I know white people or anyone who fits well into society’s norms, will never feel this way, and can quite never understand that silent exclusion you feel from things you love.
Very beautifully worded- especially the last part. I hope with my stories I can accomplish that- unique stories people can see themselves in, since no one else feels like writing it.
Not only is representation important for minorities to be able to see themselves in media, but it is also important because it normalizes their existence and presence
that's already normal stuff tho? only weird for people who haven't been around minorities i don't think those folks would change much just from seeing more on screen
ZACTLY! It's just about relatability, it's suppose to normalize their existence (just like in real life), cuz while it reflects reality more accurately, and seeing only one type of person kinda gives you an unhealthy mindset about how normal those people are, when irl I see a wide variety of people regularly, that media doesn't always show (except in that good shiz)
The Owl House had a ton of queer characters, and you know why its good? It came from a place of passion. Dana Terrace herself is bisexual, and she wanted to make a bisexual character. That made an engaging show that a straight white dude can get invested in because the focus is not on Luz being bi. This show also helped me realize I was bi myself and helped me get rid of my internalized homophobia.
My hot take as a cis het dude is I genuinely prefer and see myself more in queer media and romance than I do generic straight stuff. A lot of straight romance usually makes one or both characters pretty 1 dimensional or wish fulfillmenty and in my experience I’ve found queer stories tend to make both characters complete people. Minority representation can benefit everyone, not just the people that can finally feel seen, but also those who are underserved by an existing genre and perspective.
@@NotSoMax The Owl House doesn’t have any canon straight couples (except Odalia and Alador but that’s definitely a bad example) but Huntlow is all but canon and both characters are very well done
@@NotSoMaxas a queer person, i find straight romance in media so fucking weird, at least a lot of the time it feels so forced and odd and wonky and icky, like how are these characters even in the same circles?? i dont blame you for finding better rep in queer representation, because straight rep just seems alien, even more than it does already
As a mexican, seeing the movie "Coco" was something very special. Seeing my own culture represented on screen means so much to me. Hell, my own family loves it too! I remember my dad loved the movie so much when it came out that he would make us watch it for Dia De Los Muertos. It truly is amazing seeing representation of people like you done right. But anytime I see a latino make a stupid take like "Well I'm latino and I relate to Goku more than *insert latino character* that proves that we don't need representation!!!" I just can't help but sigh in frustration. It's such a dumb, close minded take that slaps the face of latinos who DO relate to latino characters and representation. Like- great that you relate to Goku, but you don't speak for ALL OF US.
What is your opinion on “Book of Life,” if you’ve seen it? Just curious, because I kinda liked that movie more (both are great movies though, in my opinion)
Asian representation is always about either Japanese, Chinese, or Korean people. I wish there were some cool Filipino characters in mainstream media that I could see myself in
Fr there's so much of the world's cultures and people that are untouched in media, it'd be a great to see change not just for the representation qualities but I also want to hear new stories from different perspectives.
@@RevelationsPrimo It isn't much else, but in the latest Transformers series there's Alex Malto, who's easily one of the highlights of the show even after the falloff in season 2
@@S1mply_Gr4y also apparently Lars from Steven Universe of all characters is also Filipino?? Like, it literally took him to *d¡e* and resurrect before he became a likeable/good person. I still don't know how to feel about that, especially me now knowing Lars is Pinoy
@@S1mply_Gr4y also, that's sad :( That sucks when a good representation is brought down by poor writing. It hopefully will pave the way for better writers to come along and right those wrongs tho. But omg, is Hollywood so slow on the representation uptick
Representation absolutely matters. When I was a kid, I love seeing Kevin and Ethan in Power Rangers. Now that I'm older, I love seeing Jack in SPD, Scott in RPM, TJ in Turbo and In Space, Katie in Time Force etc. Don't ever let people tell you that you're wrong for liking or wanting representation. Just because they're a minority who doesn't see diversity as a big thing doesn't mean you have to.
I disagree. I think relatability is fine, and that if you need a character to look like you just to feel represented, then honestly, that says more about you as a person than anything else.
@@Vice_Verse0 Respectfully I disagree. Relatability is fine for you and that's great. But some people want characters who look like them or are similar to them and that's not a bad thing.
Being black and Muslim all I ever wanted was minorities in media be depicted as the flawed and quirky people we all are as humans. Not paraded around by big corporations, not demonized as an identity, just human. There’s a lot of archetypes and tropes you just don’t see with minorities played at and it frustrates me. If anyone ever played Half Life or New Vegas both have militant Christian characters who recite their book while acting like a badass. I was thinking man, what if there was a Joshua Graham but a Muslim. Or how about the know it all sarcastic jerk ala Dr. House or Rick. But played as a woman. In the real world, people are multifaceted and complex, they don’t fit into boxes and the dice roll of personalities aren’t seen in media.
I think a sarcastic doctor/scientist know it all woman. Would probably be a lifetime worth of antidepressants. I hope they’ll be more diverse writers in the future who enter the creative field and produce something this wonderful.
Unsure if this counts but No Name Assassin/The Zealot from Fate/strange:fake? Whose identity as a Muslim and her intense devotion to her faith defines her character and motivation
the point that nobody ever brings up with the mindset that "representation doesnt matter" is that many young people probably gravitated towards anime characters/non human characters/characters with no specific race in media BECAUSE of the lack of representation for people of color. yes people do care if the characters are cool and written well, but what does that subliminally tell a child if all of the characters who are protrayed as cool and noble in their media are white?
@demidevildonnie I get what you mean . I did manage to find an Anime with a more diverse ethnic group of characters with various skin colors . The Anime is called Megalo Box . The representation of different races isn't perfect in the Anime itself, but it is a step in the right direction I believe. Plus it's just a very good Anime in general and pays reference and respect to a classic Anime series called Ashita No Joe. I highly recommend watching both Anime.
Exactly! There were studies that showed young black girls thought a white doll was beautiful but the black one wasn't. Why? Because the media portrayed that. If POC only see themselves portrayed as bad in media, they end up hating aspects of themselves and it's heart breaking
The wildest thing is that White people will come out in droves saying that race swapping anime characters is bad despite all the anime characters likely default to being Japanese unless stated otherwise.
I'm cantonese and turning red was such good and authentic representation yet so many people shit on it and attacked the VA for Mei for literally no reason
Old nerd here, very old nerd. Whenever you hear a black person saying they "related to so and so character even though they weren't black", just ask them, "did you have any other choice?" Growing up, I didn't relate to ANY black superheroes. Why? Most of them sucked. They were either sidekicks or over the top brutes or strangely weak and timid. There was no black Goku or Batman I could read about regularly (Black Panther was never popular and went years without having his own title). So we had to accept white alpha male heroes, which is what heroes are about at the end of the day. They are heroic fixations. What's REALLY happening today is that the people who throughout their history have been the archetype for these heroic ideals in popular media now have to share the stage. Also, there's a heaping dose of anti-blackness thrown in.
I honestly don't get peoples' hatred of representation. If they're so insistent that "relatability is enough" then why would having more people represented be an issue? Since by their own logic they should still be able to relate to characters who aren't strictly white, cis or straight.
This maybe just me but personally it's about the authenticity and making it feel natural. Back in early 2000s diversity and representation wasn't a thing to me I just saw characters as characters the race or gender of the character was the least thing on my mind. Now growing up in my late teens I see why representation is important because some of these companies don't necessarily care about us they're just there to sell a product. Think about static shock for example DC can make multiple shows about Batman and Superman but they won't make another show about Static, Hell DC never gave wonder woman her own animated series which is wild. Finn from starwars the force awakens felt like an interesting characters until the last 2 trilogy films making him a complete joke and thirsty for rey that was bad representation As a blackman who makes his own characters i think of 2 things. 1. Writing them as actual characters. 2. Making diversity feel natural and authentic
@@elcatrinc1996 oh no I understand that but this is from my POV cause I and sometimes people that have a similar mind set get pinned in with the actual racist. Let's say that I dislike race or gender swapping. if I said that people would assume im racist/sexist (even tho im black) but when I have my actual reason behind it, it's because they can use already existing characters that have yet to get the spotlight because they're on the shelf collecting dust or they can create new characters that can rival or even be better than the og. I like seeing diverse characters but why aren't we getting the one's we've been asking for or could actually get. They'll either understand/agree or they'll still pin me with the actual racist. I agree racism plays a factor but only a small portion and not everyone gonna make everyone happy but sometimes the world isn't just black and white. And maybe it's just me but I never heard any racism/sexism towards El tigre, coco (Disney), static shock, Black panther, totally spies, alien, terminator or arcane because those are great shows/movies
This is something you gotta deal with a lot with autistic representation, esp since its not like any other type of representation where you either just know or its not plot important unless its specifically shown. Thing is, its very easy to unintentionally write autistic characters and even have them go through autism specific situations with the writer being completely oblivious, which is cool but issue is most people just arent going to pick up on it unless its explicitly stated (even if the character is intentionally coded). This also goes for ADHD characters
I just put it this way, every single piece of fiction is made by people somewhat on the spectrum. From the interactions, the ideas, the dialog, for you to create that stuff, you gotta be a tad bit autistic. Not an insult, but I think 90% of people who pursue art n literature are not generally people who can hold up a normal conversation. So really, everything is subconsciously autistic representation.
Yes exactly!! I don't know why but I've seen autistic coded characters (even if written like that unintentionally) be better representation for autism than explicitly autistic characters that we're conceived that way. It seems like most of the explictly autistic rep we get in media are cishet white Sheldon Cooper/Good Doctor types or caricatures of autistic people with higher support needs that are non-verbal/don't behave in neurotypical ways (like Music, Sia's movie). Neither have actual autistic people behind those characters.
I’m autistic and a writer and I just kind of accepted that I’m probably gonna write everyone under my pen a little neurodivergent even when I’m not trying, and I’m good with that
@@Lemoncakelover678 YESSS ikr and then there are the ppl who draw anime children doing... Things... If you know what I mean 💔💀. It's so far away from "woke culture" it isn't even funny
I hate the work "woke" because originally it was a term used by black people to be aware of what's really going on. Now that word is high jacked and views in a negative manner.
When I think about the fact that we have 3 black April O'Neils in canon TMNT projects, I genuinely get emotional thinking about how much this would've rocked my world as a kid and how happy I am for the kids now who get to grow up with them. The franchise is 40 years old and these characters are the first time I've EVER felt represented. There was nothing more I wanted as a little girl than to go on adventures with the turtles, but April always looked a certain way and in the shows there were no other black characters besides Baxter Stockman (can't speak for the comics but I assume it's similar). Even with the other shows I watched my favorite characters were rarely the sole black one. Unfortunately I internalized hard that in order to be cool or pretty like the girls in these shows I had to be white or asian with long straight hair. I'm still working through how much that messed me up, and I know I'm not the only one who experienced something like that. Can't believe people are actually arguing about whether representation matters STILL, it's so dumb 😒
April in original 80s indie comics was a black girl(and the comic quite violent unlike the 80s cartoon adaptation.) It's unfortunate but you had to go outside mainstream comics to get more diverse characters.
@@zainmudassir2964 That's a misconception. April was not originally black. She had curly hair for a stint in the original comics and those panels are often what gets linked to the claims even though it was just an 80s perm but she was named after the wife of one of the cocreators.
@@zainmudassir2964 Technically old comics April is more of a white woman with a perm. At most she was heavily based on a black woman at times, notably one of the co-creator’s wife at the time. It definitely looks like she was used as reference to draw April at times, but comic April is still white.
Racist: “uhh, just relate to white characters, it’s not that hard.” Black person: *cosplays a white character* Racist: “NOOOOOOOOOO NO NO NO NOOOO 🤬🤬🤬 YOURE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT”
@@S1mply_Gr4y Most people don’t use ideas like the strawman in a 100% literal sense but okay you can have that, I’ll rephrase “This does not happen in reality” there.
I'll say from experience, you're correct. It's not wrong at all to want people of color to want authentic representation and not feel threatened WHEN they book those roles. I've notably been called a racist for wanting such a thing and given death threats, saying I shouldn't work again, and that just makes me louder.
worst part is there are actual criticisms of what we've seen of the game so far like how they aren't advertising their other protag for some reason and seemed to put little effort into getting the timelines of when certain crop yields happen, but it's all being drowned out by the most insufferable, whiny people known to man
Ubisoft boasts the Assassin's Creed games to be historically accurate even though the guy they're basing off of (Yasuke) wasn't a Samurai at all. It's so rich to use that as an example when they did a poor job at representing Japanese culture.
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 The assassin's creed games have never been historically accurate, and to claim so is an egregious lie. There's also historical proof Yasuke was in fact a samurai, though the issue comes in the fact that so little of his life was recorded that it becomes difficult to establish this by researching him alone and you have to use context from the era he existed in. You can take umbrage with how bad what we've seen of the game's level of care regarding Japanese culture so far is (here's to hoping they take note of the criticism and put more care into the final product, but it's ubisoft so I wouldn't hold my breath) and the fact they've neglected to highlight their Japanese protagonist as well, but please do that with good faith and an unbiased lens in mind.
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 They have never claimed that the games are historically accurate lol. An italian asassasin did not in fact fight a pope wielding an apple from the garden of eden.
I despise that mentality of "Well I'm *insert demographic* and I actually vibe more with a character NOT from my demographic" Like good for you, but some others enjoy the feeling of being seen and respected, being able to see themselves in the media they love, it's amazing! That connection is misconstrued by people who hardly ever need to peer through to find that connection in the first place, thus they result to making up strawmen to try and justify their ignorance.
Couldn't one make a counter argument basically saying "ok but what if there were virtually no or very few characters with that characteristic or worse if that characteristic was actively demonized and shown to be inherently evil, how would you feel then?"?
It’s folding in on itself half the time too, because your conclusion to “I can’t relate to representation of my demographic” should be “we need more representation with more character types” versus “we need less representation”. It hurts so bad.
and like it should be a good sign that you relate to characters not in your demographic. it shows that you can have empathy for people not like you. this is an argument for more representation. this shows that we as humans can vibe with characters that aren't mirrors of ourselves. this is a GOOD THING. you SHOULD be able to vibe with characters not like you. i'm not Asian, but I really like the characters from the radiant emperor duology. i'm not Black, but i love toni morrison's works and i really loved Black Leopard, Red Wolf by Marlon James. i'm a lesbian, but i can relate to bisexual characters. we should be able to look at people not like us and go "hm are they cool?" and that's the end of that.
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I think honestly just balancing things out to include more diversity in all regards is supportive but if there was a source of media that did just this, and included a character merely as a token, to then demonize them then I'd genuinely could understand the vitriol behind that. There probably has been cases like this but at that point if the person behind the creation of this setting went out of their way to only have the representation as an inherent evil or demonized that's alarming to say the least, on part of the creator.
I used to think how some of those people did. I was like “I only relate to male characters, and these people say I should only like the girl characters” then I figured out I was a trans dude lmao
Watching this video made me realize something. Recently with all the bigots being louder than ever, I have just been losing hope, like Ill have someone say the f slur to my face, insult my fellow trans people, make fun of disabled people, make a distasteful joke about race and Ill just sigh. Like I'm so tired of hate, I need just a sliver of love in my life. I don't have energy to deal with this anymore... I don't know why I'm even writing this
The problem is that being in a minority basically means every day you gain 1 token of good will for being "one of the good one's" but if anyone in the world that claims to be part of the same group does something bad you pretty much lose all your tokens and need to start over
Thank you for sharing this. It’s sad that someone would think it’s okay to say that. Whether online or real life. Bigotry is unacceptable. I wish you well during these difficult times😁❤️
This resonates deeply. I'm in a few marginalized spaces I have been feeling similar things. I just want to exist peacefully. I want love, security and tenderness. Im so exhausted by the hate and anger.
Whenever you think today sucks, look back through history and you'll realize we're getting better as a species. Hey, slavery is illegal in most countries now, infant mortality is no longer over 50%, we're getting better and internet and news screaming at you is just perception.
The "representation doesn't matter" people always annoy me because it is such an ignorant and bad faith interpretation of why art exists in the first place. Like... do you understand the human tradition of storytelling? Do you understand that every culture and every group of people's make art? Do you understand why people make art even when they are not being paid, even when they aren't allowed, and even when it isn't popular? Do you understand why art is different and varied and why art constantly changes? When you understand WHY art exist in the first place, it's clear to see that "representation doesn't matter" means "black and non-white people should not be able to engage in culture or the human experience".
your comment should inversely go against the indoctrinated & polarized mindset of setting generalizations against any individuals of Humans based on skin tone.
as much as i relate to nathalie from miraculous ladybug there's still some disconnect because she isn't black like me and blackness doesn't affect her life (like it does mine).
In response to me saying "Wouldnt it be nice if the characters black people related to also looked like them?" Some headass replied with this: "The problem there is that you are attaching identity to skin color. If you think a character can be improved by changing the color of their skin, even if in a minor way that is racism." ...Twitter, man. Edit: Since so many of y'all are insisting the guy saying "only white/white claimable characters are relatable, so clearly you're the racist here" has a point, I wanna make it clear that I was *never* arguing for race swapping at all. *They're* the ones who brought that into the conversation. All I said was "I want relatable black characters".
Respond this to this assist. "How many proment poc characters existed in said property before this particular year?, we're not in the time where white is the default ethnicity and blacks and others were reduced to BG's and stereotypical roles, or worse yet, being part of minstrel blackface shows that seek to stigmatize blacks as well as deny them opportunities, and your use of cherrypicking isn't flying here, what of your poorly thought out assessment screams "racism"? when racism has systemic power that still effects us to this day". Tell that to this asshat.
as a kid i never really fucked with spiderman, but when the first spiderverse movie came out, my world changed. it was really the first character i ever felt really represented me. there have been tons of characters i relate to like Sam Winchester or Ferb, but Miles was the first time I saw a character that really felt like me. i saw myself in him and felt like i could do the things he could. i can overcome whatever hardship i face because miles did, and he’s just like me.
5:31 Also one thing that isnt explicitly mentioned regarding that comic is that the straw-man argument it makes also has an antisemitic twist to it, with the fictional creator of the left side being named "Mike J. Johnson Goldman" with a hooked nose, so the maker of that comic can be plausibly believed to think that representation in media is some "Jewish Conspiracy" or whatever.
That comic was dedicated to the biggest lolcow of the latin american community btw, it's quite the rabbit hole so tl dr, It was made from clowns, to clowns.
I’m Latino and I’ve never fucked with Goku. Crucify, make me watch those drawn out mf fights in DBZ, I don’t care. He’s not what I like, is nothing like me, and gets his ass handed to him by Sailor Moon. Going into my 3rd year of my Ph.D. in a STEM field, I’ve constantly asked where are the nerdy Latinos both in media and real life. I’m not fictional. So, why can’t I even HAVE FICTION represent me in the media I watch?
Thank you king for saying this, I’m a Mexican who never cared about DBZ but I get crucified by others when we literally have sailor moon right thereeeee
Honestly, Brazilian representation is so rare i am taking every scrap i can because guess what? The latino america is not a monolith and representating like, only puerto rico and mexico does not representate the entire latine culture and we need more to see more stories that ain't like, just america or japan, maybe canada or brigtain when yall need another flavor of white
me with metis rep… despite being half a million strong we have (checks notes) Katherena Vermette’s writing and buffalo is the new buffalo and that is it. plus they always pick BC Quebec or Toronto if it’s Canada but then again Alberta and Manitoba probably have too many natives
I agree with you. Latino (Latine) representation has been exclusive to certain ethnic and racial groups. Hopefully, more stories can become diverse and mainstream👏🏾!
I relate to this but as someone who is south Sudanese with ‘African representation’ a lot of the time they throw a stereotypical (west) African accent on a black person and that’s it
8:20 If I’m allowed to play Devil’s Advocate, Gods of Egypt flopped specifically because nobody in the cast was melanated or melanated enough, and to this day, we all clown on The Last Airbender for the objective failure that it was starting with the whitewashed characters.
All these bad faith arguments are especially weird since most characters in popular media are STILL mainly white and heterosexual. Like the push for diversity has just barely gotten started and the bigots are crying like things have really changed that much. It’s lowkey funny 😂
Honestly I don’t even take seriously some of these dumb clout chasers who constantly need to uphold the status quo yet act like they are having a “hot take” Like these dudes fr be moving like boondocks characters, except they are being deadass 💀 (11:27 how tf do you get ratioed for being right? I was right we are actually living in a boondocks episode 😭🙏🏿)
@@ioc6283 yeah it’s sad honestly, being ganged up by a bunch of idiots when you spoke nothing but facts is proof that there is no “woke mob” to be afraid of, if we are obviously in the minority than it isn’t a mob The privileged just want to be seen as victims while weaponising privilege 🤦🏿♂️
“whiteness is anything so whiteness isn’t anything” is actually so fascinating to me. i’ve never been able to pinpoint what made me “white” other than my complexion (and rooted bigotry in my family) so that really puts things into perspective
That's something I've seen being talked about when discussing right wing circles and their search for "roots" and "heritage" being often manipulated by the right
@@airplanes_aren.t_real The thing is also that "whiteness" as congealed into this amorphous yet stationary thing that shouldnt be tainted and is easily tainted. (One drop rule as example). The side effect is ironically many different European cultures are phased out in order to exclude non European ones. It's the everyman or default.
Honestly the whole "Whiteness is anything so whiteness isn't anything" just blatantly ignores the huge differences in things a white person experiences and a none white person experiences. The only reason why you see white as just your skin color is because you're only looking at it as just skin color and not things such as white privilege, culture and expectations
Thank you. And also, the genshin fandom's response to Natlan KILLED ME. Like someone else said, they're basically saying "Everything about your culture is beautiful...but uhm...yeah, you can use a little bit of tweaking."
@@vanitasz the characters are WHITE as hell. I wasn't in the fandom during Sumeru so I didn't get to experience it, but god I felt the rage when that Natlan trailer came out. And the fandom is riding hoyo so hard. Someone deadass told me "you're on the genshin subreddit complaining about the skintone of fictional characters when a potential president just got shot". OH MY GODDDD.
@@adamas5925 Don't forget how they never seem to grasp the fact that maybe them having to defend a character having an exceedingly light skin tone every other month might be because that character maybe shouldn't have one.
Yeah Genshin fans and Hoyoverse would literally look you right in the eye and tell you colorism isn't a problem that exists and chinese game devs don't owe you nothing while jacking whole culture's clothing styles, music and even mythology bc they think it looks cool, like atp it's just appropriation plain and simple. Bum ass gacha game
I feel like rep sometimes does tie into relatability like the example that was used for tiana. One that that I also thought up of is the movie coco, I related to the movie alot specifically because it was a Mexican centric story about culture, family and what it means to accept each other for who they are and to forgive for past mistakes. Does that mean anyone who has related to it that isn't mex, HAS to be mexican? No, you can be any other race and still relate to having a generationally traumatized family or relate to the other themes in the movie. Another movie I related to was turning red, despite me not being Chinese, I still related to meimei because of the relationship she had with her mom. But the main point tho, none of that excuses people from being "hurhur rep doesn't matter" bcs it clearly does to me and a lot of other people with theses specific stories, whether it be implied to be a specifically hispanic, african american, asian american, whatever... People like to relate and be seen, but most people dont wanna accept that or really care/want to see that and brush it off as "woke" idk, thanks joey for making this video bcs I fr thought asking for more rep of people like myself is a crime apparently lmao
Personally I feel like the problem stems from the premise itself, it treats representation of different cultures and races as inherently different to representation of different personality traits and interests, not saying they aren't different but if we treated representation as just "showing characteristics of x group in x character" as opposed to this weird protest against whiteness (a great cartoon replacement if you will) this whole argument would be dead in the water Like verdis said this ain't even worth debating over
@@airplanes_aren.t_real Thing is, i dont think anyone is arguing to replace every white character with someone who isnt white. You might get one or two crazy people who feel that way, but most people who want representation of theirs and other's culture don't. The representation of nonwhite people is not the death of white people in media. What I do see though is arguments against things like whitewashing, which is directly harmful to representation as it excludes the very people from the culture being depicted.
This dichotomy is crazy to me cause like, why doesn't it apply the other way around?? If relatability is the most important thing then the race of the character shouldn't matter, so why are people angry at stories centered around POC?? Okay Goku was really relatable to you even though he isn't Black, then what's stopping a white person from relating to Miles? Or 2018 April??? Wouldn't this logic mean that no matter how specific/marginalized the mc is in a show people shouldn't care????????? Whatever, I'm having the time of my life making my silly lil black and gay stories lmao.
Saying this as a black guy who’s had a passion for writing for over a decade, for me, good representation in any sort of media is just a well written character, who happens to be of a certain ethnic group. If the character is well written, I’m cool.
The problem is a lot of modern writers are terrible at their jobs and don't write characters of diverse ethnic groups well. This in turn attracts a lot of actual bigots who attack representation under the guise of wanting good writing.
I mean, that's all it really should be, a character just themselves in media but then you got people polarizing that skin tones and ethnicity don't matter in fictional worlds....and then purposely gawk at Neo-Japan or very obviously Tolken Fantasy Europe. People are so irony poisoned that it's not even a hard question to ask but given how much escapism exists in fiction for so many, it's seen as hostile.
I'm Irish and grew up in the occupied six counties, while there was a war going on. I had a diet of mostly British and American TV shows, and a few Canadian and Australian ones that made it over here. Our local TV didn't make stuff for children. It was shit, I had to watch my colonial oppressors making TV about other kids doing normal shit and not having to worry about bomb scares or curfews, living the lives of stability and normality that my entire community were denied. I resented and scorned their sanitised existences, as depicted on television. Representation is good. Maybe if I'd been able to see something a bit more relatable that I could have seen myself in, even just someone with the same accent that can actually do it properly, I think I'd have loved it. I'm glad we have Cartoon Saloon now. I hope some day we get a full Blood Of Zeus style full on animated adaptation of The Táin or The Book Of Invasions or The Fenian Cycle (but I'll settle for the OSP videos for now, those are great).
FR, all we got was that Captain Planet episode. Like it was thoroughly entertaining because it was funny but Jesus Christ the night, it wasn't trying to be. Look it up some time.
You’re right. People should be happy to see themselves on screen. The fact that bigots can’t see that or at least do the responsible thing and keep quiet when someone says “it’s not for you” are just wasting their own time. If they want to be stuck in the past or in their own arrogant viewpoint, that’s their issue.
That "it's not just for you" quote really resonated with me. I remember when Venom first came out in 2018 and the queer community immediately jumped out to claim Venom as one of us because the Symbiote was written to be explicitly seperate from Eddie, therefore Venom's need to find a friend in Eddie, while still fighting for his right to remain just the way he is and to be seen as more than just a scary monster, is sooo synonymous to the average queer experience. Many shipped Eddie and Venom and ppl were calling it a thriller romcom for a reason, me included lol. But then a bunch of bigots just had to come out of the woodworks to bash us, saying that since venom and Eddie didn't have hard core gay shreks it didn't count as if they could tell the gays how to gay, while completely ignoring the reason why we kin venom to begin with. For once there is a piece of media that we feel belong to us, and bigots still want to take it away. You have all the toys and this one tiny thing is for us and you still get pissy? At this point do bigots even like movies anymore?
@@CATmetchu To add onto this, the symbiote's relationship with Eddie has been queer-coded for decades (I only say coded because Marvel's never officially recognized their relationship as a romance, but the symbiote itself has compared their bond to a romance) and damn near each and every host the symbiote has had other than Eddie fit a different relationship archetype, with Angelo Fortunato was the post-breakup fling, Gargan was the toxic rebound, so on and so forth. Also they have two children and one of them was born while Eddie was the symbiote's host, effectively making them both parents who conceived a child together--
@@CATmetchu I’m sorry to hear what the bigots did. I was rewatching Spectaular Spider-Man two years ago, and Venom and Eddie are relationship coded for years. The fact that bigots can’t seem to view it that way by the subtext just says that “it isn’t for you then if you can’t see the subtext.” I agree. Venom and Eddie have always been implied to be in a relationship. They have literal kids even though Venom says his species reproduces asexually, they were just dancing around of them trying to not say they’re gay. Which sucks to a degree because asexual people shouldn’t be reduce to that. That’s probably a different topic.
I always notice how bigots get pissy of the phrase 'its not for you' they have millions of media they can watch for them but they rather rain on someone else's parade, then whine about people calling them out for it.
THIS IS SO REAL!!! Cus as a little mexican kid, when i went to go see spiderman into the spiderverse in theaters and I heard Miles's mom call em "mijo" I went CRAZY LMAO (Ik they are puerto rican xD I was just happy for hispanic rep)
My dad tells me that during the 2008 election(when I was 4 btw), when Obama got elected, I apparently had a giant smile on my face and was dancing around the room. I was 4, I had no idea what this meant, I could barely count to 15. But in that moment, I felt seen. And that's why I know representation matters.
It’s also really ironic seeing right leaning people on twitter whining about representation, who remembers when they got mad at the new Assassins creed (with the historical black character) for not having “asian male representation” Now all of a sudden representation matters to them? I guess it only matters when it’s used to shut down more representation
I'm Samoan, and all the representation I have in mainstream media that I know of is Moana, Gibraltar from Apex Legends, and Mauga from Overwatch 2. When Mauga was released, the sheer joy I felt was immeasurable. Representation matters so fucking much, and I appreciated this video.
The tweet show are the exact same people quick to say black people aren't a monolith. But then turn around and speak authoritatively about how all black people feel about current media.
I think it’s really funny how Goku is usually framed as a white guy in this conversation, like people counter to people wanting more representation for people of color is to say that a Japanese character was relatable so actually no we don’t need people of color in media. Like how are people so racist they internally change a characters race to white so they don’t have to think about it. I can get a kid maybe getting confused but grown adults?
Goku is a literal immigrant raised in an Asian country, an aspect which is reflected in literally every part of his life including the way that he dresses, and niggas on Twitter will still be like "well he's white-passing so he's clearly one of us, but look at all the little pigmented children who like him" completely unironically What I'm saying is we should lobotomize twitter checkmarks-
@@Slowpoke-v this is facts you can see it in how cosplayers are treated black cosplayers can never just cosplay a non black character without being told that "oh this character isnt black" or "you dont look like the character/ but a white cosplayer can cosplay an Asian anime character and get no comments like that in fact people will just see the costume and recognize the character instead of focusing on skin color
@@Radiolonestar There’s a lot of notable examples of cosplay pictures being replied with “you’re not white enough” when the characters Asian. People are just dumb.
@@Radiolonestar I've seen this type of gatekeeping happen to physically disabled people in cosplay too. "Oh, you need a wheelchair? Yeah, your cosplay is bad because the character doesn't use one and I can't see the character with a wheelchair", what happened to doing cosplay for fun and not to be perfect and/or lore-accurate? Who cares if a Vegeta uses a cane to walk around because the cosplayer requires one? Why does it matter if Sailor Moon is rolling around? There is no answer other than bias and prejudice Also, I feel that there is some unspoken sentiment that black cosplayers should stick to characters like miles morales, black panther, or *insert popular black character here*, which are absolutely not bad characters to cosplay but it's just more shit by only allowing white people to chose whoever they want
The "wokeness" thing being bad was something I actually believed in when I was still in school. I was doing the "im black and blah blah thing" Now that im older looking back, these arguments never work. As you stated at the last segment "Make your own characters" isnt genuine. Because when they do (theyve done it before now and after) the wokeness argument changes into more of a general thing that "infects" media as a whole rather than a specific change in a media property. Original characters with different perspectives or new stories STILL get shit. If its good then its vague critques like "Miles isnt spiderman", if its bad its full on bigotry. Representation matters to the ppl who complain about "wokeness" when its "DEI". They want to be REPRESENTED in their way while excluding others which really makes the "Representation doesnt matter" line just a lie. Its to keep the status quo and attack everyday ppl instead of actual issues with industries. To them its easy to scream at ppl on screen and not systems because they dont want those systems to change.
Or when they do praise it they either make sure to speak little about 'da woke' stuff or they just pretend to like it like they haven't crapped on it in other IPs that weren't received well
It always irks me when I see Clout Chasers who want to turn this into propaganda while people like us grew up seeing these types of characters' struggles and all it's just so worthwhile. Like for example for me the TMNT 1990 movie I never thought I would identify with Raphael with all the shit that he's going through because you know I was a kid but now that I'm grown up he's my all-time favorite turtle. Another example is Miles Morales and what he goes through in Across the spider verse I remember him saying everyone keeps telling how my story is supposed to go, Nah I'm'a do my own thing. I went through a similar thing growing up so seeing that on the big screen means something to me
Words can't fully describe the level of alienation I felt as a kid never seeing anyone like me in my favorite shows and movies. The sheer euphoria I feel whenever I see my people in things nowadays can't be overstated.
9:01 My mom legit cried in the movie theatre when we saw The Little Mermaid live action because she felt so represented, to matters so much more than certain people realize
this representation is only arbitrary & superficial, based on the polarization & generalization, that'll lead Humans with the relatability factor being deemed with likeability & representation for the sake of it, & differentiating because of it. this video is basically like this, but inversely against those who argue about 'representation doesn't matter'.
This right here is the exact reason why Ethan is and always will be my favorite blue ranger. Yes there were other nerd rangers before and after him that I could relate to, but Ethan just hits different. The intersection of nerd culture with your ethnic culture creates an experience unique to your background, and while Ethan’s blackness doesn’t play much of a role in the story itself, whoever was in charge of his wardrobe understood the assignment, and Kevin Duhaney bodied that role. And Jack is still in my top 5 rangers too. For similar reasons, I also love Cameron from Total Drama, which is funny cause he’s also played by Keven Duhaney. Of course, shout out to Power Rangers in general for showing a wide variety of how black men can look and act.
I was watching a video with a man complaining abot how woke Marvel's Spider Man 2 is and how Miles Morales was created by Barack Obama and that made me realize "oh god these people dont think before they talk". That was the epiphany that made me stop listening to anything these type of people talk about because it is going to be mostly bullshit they dreamed about once or very surface level stuff
As a Morocco person I almost never see a other Morocco girl in a show and man I’ll LOVE to see a other Arab person that isn’t a terrorist and I still have character that aren’t Arab I still love
People also forget how much media can impact your idea of reality, for better or for worse. People who don’t live next to people of other races/ethnicities only really understand them as they are presented in media, and if they are only exposed to the most generic stereotypes of that race as a side character in a story then that will be expressed in how they view them. Not showing cultural struggles in media makes less people aware about them, not showing the life of someone who is from a completely different background then what one considers “normal” narrows their understanding of the world. In an ideal world media should be full of diverse representation to enrich peoples understandings of the people who share the world with them- from there, people can choose what stories or what characters they relate to the most.
I also want to add that representation also makes you a more well-rounded person? Like when different people are [correctly] represented you learn about their cultures and experiences you might not have known about prior. More knowledge and perspective
Some people really want their edge… Get it? Because “aNtI SjWs” don’t want to be more well rounded people, thus, edgy? And they disguise their bigotry as “eDgY JoKeS”? I know the way to the exit.
It's kinda funny how I'm also sure people who try to use Peter Parker and Goku for the "representation doesn't matter" argue are almost guaranteed to be the people constantly mischaracterizing characters like that
As a first gen 5:56 Mexican American , even the reaction to Primos is so ridiculously overblowned it’s laughable. Like seriously it was clear from the start it was specifically speaking about the experience of a Mexican American girl living in SoCal. I’m very aware with the fact that Chicano representation overtakes a lot of Latino rep here in English speaking countries but that’s a separate issue that I feel others kinda just project. So even Primos isn’t really a strawman either. Even if it’s a mid ass show, it still got hate that was unnecessary
at this point, i'm not even fazed that this is apparently an argument online. because the people who do this shit and go off about how something like representation "doesn't matter" and so on, aside from the fact that they're only saying this shit because they're behind screens and wouldn't have the balls/ovaries to do it IRL because they know they'll get called out on it and have no defense that is valid, and the ones who do generally don't have a reality check or understand how to socialize, how it all comes off from my perspective is that they aren't involved in the conversation. that's it. people talking about how characters like Miles Morales are great representation, some dumbass that's always online goes "WHAT ABOUT ME, WHAT ABOUT WHAT I THINK" and want to be right for attention, not wanting to be questioned on it, and most likely this illusion that you'll get famous through pointless internet shit that most likely everyone will move on from in a week and not even bother to remember who they are. and then when a subject matter comes up that is questionable that they like and it gets called out (anime shit, mostly) those same people are seen either not saying anything, or defending it and not wanting to be questioned on it. conversations and debates regarding matters like this wouldn't be an issue if the focus was more towards being constructive, but people who do this shit don't care.
"I'm black and I don't need representation." Okay, pack it up everyone. The single person appointed by the Black Council to represent every single black person in the world says representation isn't needed. Anyone who says otherwise is to be completely ignored.
Rugrats making holiday specials for Jewish people meant a lot for me growing up. It’s a very imbedded American thing to have Christian based shows, even the least religious ones will have a Christmas special. (Although I’d argue Christmas isn’t about Jesus for most people these days). But having a show that explains that Hanukkah isn’t just “Jewish Christmas” and explains what that holiday is about with the story of the maccabees and the miracles… it’s important. Now if only I could see Jewish characters that wear kippahs constantly, and celebrate other holidays like sukkot and tubishvat…
I was hit with so much hate during those few days, people calling me racist and narcissistic for liking characters that reflect my heritage. Also rightfully pointing out people who use stonetoss art don't deserve to be heard out.
Damn, that sucks, hope things have gotten better since then though. It's always a weird thing with the "representation doesn't matter" crowd where they suffer from such debilitating cognitive dissonance that they genuinely can't see how racist and narcissistic they themselves are while hurling the same insults at someone for...what should be the most harmless, inoffensive statement ever.
I remember once saying I wanted more cuban-american rep or autistic rep (that isn't bullshit like The Fanatic or Music) in media, possibly both since that's who I am. And someone called me 'narcistic' for wanting that. Ya, apparently it's narcistic for wanting to see someone like you in the media you enjoy. "Just make your own story with that kind of representation." Well, I recently finished a rough draft for a novel that stars a cuban-american man piloting a super robot. Can't wait to see what the next goal post is after that.
With bigotry becoming louder and facism looming over us, I think that we need to be equally as loud with our representation of different races, sexualities, genders, and cultures in media.
I know you talked about Primos but i wanted to say there's actually a great deal of Mexican Americans who actually relate to it, it did and does have valid criticisms against it but there a lot of things it actually does do right and the representation is done in a really wholesome way if that makes any sense. Maybe its demographic is a lot smaller but its a show about a mix raced child who's trying to navigate her life between 2 cultures and is trying to figure our who she wants to be on top of that. I know many people personally who do relate to that (whether they want to watch the show or not) I think people forget Primos isn't about Mexican culture, its Mexican-American culture.
The big problem with Primos was the way it was initially announced and marketed made it seem like they were asserting that this is the only "true latino" experience. This was made worse with their poor, initial response to the backlash instead of just clarifying that the show was about the Mexican American experience without patronizing the experiences of non-US latinos. Its unfortunate that this initial blunder not only hurt the show itself but allowed bad actors to poison the well of discussion about representation in media.
@@nathanaellazaro3347 Yes the Main VAs response was very icky, but yeah a lot of people thought it was representing a girl in Mexico, not a mixed race Mexican American.
What genshin did is so disgusting. Like since their inazuma patch they started giving everyone that vicco skin whitening cream. And excluding brown people's skintones from their games. But not their stories, folklore, language. Such a shitty thing for them to do not even their east Asian fans like what they're doing
Go under any short regarding mihoyos bs and I gurantee all you'll see is their fans cope and seethe and say something to the effect of "why would you expect a Chinese game company that clearly put some level of research into other cultures because they literally based characters off those cultures, make that character look the same as the kind of people coming from that culture!"
@@ThisparticularinconspicuousguyI mean, yeah, there is a whole systemic colourism problem across all of Asia (not just East Asia since I think it's even more egregious in places like India). Though I wouldn't really excuse giving every tan character a botched gameplay kit, either.
If representation didn't matter then why would it matter to them that the character is non-white? They should be able to relate just as hard according to their own logic. But seriously, if you have any empathy for like, ppl of different social standings than your own it's actually really easy to see representation as entirely cool and good, cuz other ppl get that feeling they get when they see Peter Parker and think "we share a societal experience". I genuinely get really happy when I see a cool well written black character whose struggles (race related or not) are real, because it makes me think "some black kids probably see in Nagoriyuki what I see in Bridget, see in Bow what I see in Adora, see in Miles what I see in Gwen etc etc." My mom went through this too, she's a huge trekkie and she initially dismissed captain Cisco as "Boring" until one of her black friends said "But it was so beautiful to see them appoint a black captain" and realized she felt the same way about Captain Janeway (Being a woman and all) If you're railing against representation, you don't have a point, you have a skill issue in your ability to empathize.
if they made Batman latino, people would've lost their minds. But when they Made Bane white in the Dark Knight rises, noone cared. We actually got a worse version of bane because of it.
Dark Knight Rises stole Bane's soul, blended it, mixed it with catfood and said "this is your villain now." None of the elements that made him an interesting villain (his psychology, backstory and ability to threaten Batman mentally as well as physically) received any focus in the limited screentime he had, and whenever he talked he came across less scary or intelligent (which Bane absolutely should constantly) and more like he had a debilitating sickness that would kill him in 12 minutes time
@@S1mply_Gr4y I do like that in Harley Quinn's and lego's version he still has the voice though. I just we'd see bane in more mainstream media and in a way thats accurate to the character
From 2017-2018, there were a total of 17 transgender characters in the entirety of TV media. This includes "characters" that said a single line of dialogue. Can you imagine how that makes trans youth feel? To see practically no trans people existing in media, much less being a main character, and God forbid an actual story about the trans experience. Being a trans actor? Your ceiling is pathetically low. Then recently I saw Hunter Schafer starring (not just saying a line or two) in Cuckoo. It gives me a feeling of joy I can't fully describe. Representation absolutely matters.
Best example of Relatability =/= Representation I can think of is from me watching the Boondocks. Almost every major character in that show is black and deals with black culture on a daily basis, so I had lots of representation of my people. But the only character I actually related to was Huey. Just like Huey, I know what it's like to have that fatal combination of being young and wise and being powerless to stop the world from burning around me cause people don't wanna listen to a kid telling them to stop destroying themselves. I knew a bunch of Rileys, Granddad was my grandparents and uncles, and I met my Jazmine far too late for her to help me. When Huey said "Why does it always have to end up like this..." when he was about to shoot his own brother (with BB guns), I felt that level of regret for what he thinks he has to do deep in my soul. You can have Relatability and Representation, but they are not the same thing.
i wish people had better takes on why representation was a bad thing rather them spoutung than "repretestation dont matta i relate more wolveen than mile morals", i rlly want to understand why they thought this way, but twitter i guess😔
Its always got me weirded out when people say Goku is representation as if Goku isnt just what it means to have human spirit as a prescribed alien. Hes not one race; he's just a good dude who wants to be in his best life. I can accept looking at others and going, "Yeah I share that relation" but when I see a genuine afro-descent character just exist without a specific reason? Godlike, I just want to vibe.
I had the mindset of relatability > representation until a month ago when I was at New York getting my dreadlocks. done. (for context I moved to Pennsylvania two years ago) There I saw a mother and her daughter put on a TV show for the new black Ariel that was aimed towards kids. It didn't stick with me since I watched stuff made for kids too like cartoons and the like, but what got me is that this mother and daughter we're glad to see a young black mermaid going on adventures as if they were being seen. It was at that moment I thought "huh, yeah I relate to Optimus more but seeing my own skin color represented on an old character feels kinda nice as well even if it wasn't my gender." As such, I say we should have more black, Spanish, asian, etc characters in our media. You might relate to Optimus prime, but do you wish to see a blackcoded Optimus prime?
For real, you spitting. Growing up in Africa and being into nerdy shit was kinda tough when you saw no one who looked like you, but that didn't mean I didn't relate with the struggles and stuff, but it got better as I felt represented, especially as i saw queer people. Based vid
Imagine thinking "Hispanics relate to Goku more than anything" being a good point for why representation doesn't matter. Bro you know what I relate to even more than Goku? Any fucking hispanic character that has a little picture of Goku in the living room as if he was a religious figure, I relate to that shit too. I can demand both!
In defense of “Primos”: It’s a show about not feeling connected enough to your culture, which in its own right represents a subset of people that this specific thing does happen to. It’s about a girl who feels like she doesn’t fit in with the rest of her family because of a lack of cultural identity.
Representation is definitely important, i just hate when it's obvious that it's about an agenda and the character is otherwise hollow. Having characters that look like real people should've never been a political statement in the first place, but now it sometimes is. I don't know what the solution is, but i hope it gets figured out.
I'd also like to clarify that regardless of my own inclination towards skepticism, I'm not suggesting that anybody's creation shouldn't exist. Art exists for anyone, my personal opinion doesn't matter
primos is actually not bad and is just like, any other disney cartoon post gravity falls
@@VeridisJoe honestly, I never thought it was gonna be as bad as the internet made it out to be. No show can flop so badly from just its trailer like High Guardian Spice, however, I do feel they’ve somewhat struggled to fully manage the cast of characters.
Pan Pizza is the only nigga I saw defending it, glad more people are waking up
You just lost me when you said it's just angry internet white men. No. I'm Asain, and everyone who also hate this stuff is Latino. Heck, the recent Black Samurai controversy was caused by a WHITE man faking history lying about a retainer being a samurai.
Yet for some reason, progressives believe the White guy, not the actual Asains. Because reasons. Man you're a straight up Gringo without saying it
Why do you assume people calling this stuff out is White Mr. AMERICAN?
99% of this comment section are Americans calling every none white foreigner who hates your argument white.
Yeah I'm not really sure you are pro diversity yourself.
As a black man from New Orleans, I am glad I grew up watching Static Shock and Justice League. That one episode where Static went to Africa, made me proud that I'm black.
ayy from nola too
When he said “here I’m not a black kid, I’m just a kid,” I FELT that.
@@SketchytheChangeling exactly
Why did he go to Africa? What'd he do there? I haven't seen it since... it aired, really, so I 100% forget it. Sounds like an episode that's interesting.
the animated justice league is just so so good holy. my favs were jon stewart and hawkgirl. And the show still holds up today, I constantly go back and watch it
People will say representation doesn't matter and then get excited over smallest reference to their country in mainstream media. There's little difference between black girls seeing themselves in Ariel and bunch of people on the internet posting "Brazil mentioned" because some anime referenced it, both of those reactions come from similar place and both make people happy.
Talk as much as you want about how much you relate to Goku more than any "actual representation" but don't lie to me that you wouldn't have the biggest smile on your face if your favorite show or game randomly referenced your culture. Everyone wants their existence to be recognized in one way or another, that's why we create art.
Exactly, people need to accept that we like being recognised in media.
It rly depends on the person
As a Korean American, I was surprised to see Seoul be included in Age of Ultron, and although I was disappointed by how generically hi tech it looked, I appreciated the parts where they showed some of the dirty parts of the city too
But South Korean denizens said they weren't happy about the fact that all they saw of their "representation" was a soulless cityscape, and that all it did was increase traffic during shooting
Some ppl just don't care about skin deep representations
The same people who hated Zoe Kravitz being casted as Catwoman for*The Batman* are the same one's who wanted Selina Kyle to be played by an Asian actress instead of a white passing latina
@@dankim7831 that's a normal reaction to bad representation tho... when I'm watching a show that features mexico and it's shown as a dry dessert under a yellow filter, obviously I'm not impressed or excited. however if it's featured on a show or movie that values the architecture, history, people, and culture in a beautiful and positive way I get excited and feel a sense of pride. I'm sure it'd be the same for you if you saw a proper representation of your city or country
@@vibewithprince2467 well that's my point... "omg korea mentioned" excitement is not the same as "omg good Korean representation" excitement
Peter Parker will always be cool to me but as an Irish-latino the second I found out about Spider-Man 2099 I was like oh damn that’s my Spider-Man. And as a Puerto Rican seeing Miles get two beloved movies and his own game means so much to me.
Yes, I agree with that I feel relatable and represented by Miles Morales. Even though I’m white and Dominican and he’s black and Puerto Rico, I still feel relatability and represented because we’re both from America even though we’re from different Boroughs, and live in America and a Spanish household exactly how my family is to Miles family. Parents Expecting too much from you and putting pressure on you artist and stuff not knowing what going on and feel like you’re better, ultimately through the good and the bad and sometimes the cringe you still love your family and they love you that way I feel related and represented by Miles
While Peter is for ever my favorite but he’s not just Spider-Man anymore we also have Ben main Miles Miguel Anya Gwen and manny more but seeing Peter mile and Miguel on screen together at all filled me with a insane amount of of joy
I felt the same but with Static Shock when first discovered him. Pete is still my boi but Virgil hit a point in kid me that I didn't know existed until I saw him on TV.
THIISSSSS. Peter Parker was at one time probably my favorite superhero but has been moved to second place in recent years because Miles Morales is just so me. I’m monoracially(?) Puerto Rican and grew up influenced by black culture as my primary frame of reference for my experience living in America that I could identity with. Miles personifies all that and really brings it to life and is such a fantastic character. I honestly need to delve delve deeper into Miguel because I know there’s just great stuff out there for me to discover, especially with him coming from a Spanish speaking culture like me, and I also want to take a closer look at Aña Corazon’s stuff, one of the dopest Puerto Rican heroes out there for me. I kinda get culture envy from her and Miles sometimes because they seem so much more in touch than I feel. Ben Rielly also deserves so much more love, I think he stands more for people disenfranchised by capitalism and struggles with identity even more than Peter and that’s so valuable and it’s a shame he gets pushed to the side for being “confusing”
THIS omg. There's something so freeing abt seeing yourself represented onscreen. Being a boricua myself and growing up on media like West Side Story with pretty stereotypical rep of Puerto Ricans, seeing caribbean characters like Miles Morales have made me so unreasonably happy. It's in the little things like seeing a fleeting shot of some Coco Rico during the rooftop party, his conversation with his mom when before he leaves they exchange blessings and also just his general relationship with his mother. He's such a well-written superhero who just happens to be half Puerto Rican, and the casual expressions of our culture throughout the movies make me feel so seen in a refreshing way.
As a Korean American girl, the majority of the characters I've related to the most weren't my race or even my gender. But that doesn't mean I don't find it refreshing when someone I happen to relate to ALSO looks like me. If anything it makes me appreciate a character even more. I think it's a big reason why I was so drawn to Avatar the Last airbender as a kid. I appreciated it for its well written story and characters, but I also was happy to see elements of my own culture celebrated and treated normally in a time where it was normal to be casually racist towards asian people (which still happens a lot to this day but it's definitely a little more taboo now).
When you're a poc like myself, living in America and being exposed to racism is something that deeply affects your relationship with yourself and identity. So having a space in my life where I could divulge in media that actually respected my culture provided a brief interlude where I didn't have to worry about what others thought of me for something I had no ability to change.
At the end of the day, whether you're aware of it or not, your race, sex, and sexuality DO influence you and how others treat you. They make up who you are and what type of person you end up becoming, so it baffles me when people so adamantly refuse to accept the idea that those same aspects could be prevalent and appreciated in fictional characters. If anything, more diversity and representation opens the gateway for MORE perspectives and stories. It's great that more people can see not only themselves but their culture and identity in media. It opens people to experiences outside of their own and shows others that their stories are also worth telling!
You said it so well, and something about not seeing some aspect of yourself in fictional works you really love. Or mostly portrayed in a way that’s negative. Has always told me. “You are not desirable to be seen by people” and it stings. I know white people or anyone who fits well into society’s norms, will never feel this way, and can quite never understand that silent exclusion you feel from things you love.
Very beautifully worded- especially the last part. I hope with my stories I can accomplish that- unique stories people can see themselves in, since no one else feels like writing it.
Not only is representation important for minorities to be able to see themselves in media, but it is also important because it normalizes their existence and presence
I was gonna post basically exactly this but worded differently lol
Which is why bigoted white people despise representation, makes it harder to sway other white people to be bigots as well.
that's already normal stuff tho? only weird for people who haven't been around minorities
i don't think those folks would change much just from seeing more on screen
Exactly! Minorities exist and just wanna do what everyone else is trying to do. They just wanna keep a roof over their head and food on their table.
ZACTLY! It's just about relatability, it's suppose to normalize their existence (just like in real life), cuz while it reflects reality more accurately, and seeing only one type of person kinda gives you an unhealthy mindset about how normal those people are, when irl I see a wide variety of people regularly, that media doesn't always show (except in that good shiz)
The Owl House had a ton of queer characters, and you know why its good? It came from a place of passion. Dana Terrace herself is bisexual, and she wanted to make a bisexual character. That made an engaging show that a straight white dude can get invested in because the focus is not on Luz being bi.
This show also helped me realize I was bi myself and helped me get rid of my internalized homophobia.
My hot take as a cis het dude is I genuinely prefer and see myself more in queer media and romance than I do generic straight stuff. A lot of straight romance usually makes one or both characters pretty 1 dimensional or wish fulfillmenty and in my experience I’ve found queer stories tend to make both characters complete people. Minority representation can benefit everyone, not just the people that can finally feel seen, but also those who are underserved by an existing genre and perspective.
@@NotSoMax The Owl House doesn’t have any canon straight couples (except Odalia and Alador but that’s definitely a bad example) but Huntlow is all but canon and both characters are very well done
@@Cherno35hunter and willow aren't even straight cuz the creator confirmed hunter is bi and willow is pan
@@Lemoncakelover678 but it’s a straight relationship
@@NotSoMaxas a queer person, i find straight romance in media so fucking weird, at least a lot of the time it feels so forced and odd and wonky and icky, like how are these characters even in the same circles??
i dont blame you for finding better rep in queer representation, because straight rep just seems alien, even more than it does already
As a mexican, seeing the movie "Coco" was something very special. Seeing my own culture represented on screen means so much to me. Hell, my own family loves it too! I remember my dad loved the movie so much when it came out that he would make us watch it for Dia De Los Muertos. It truly is amazing seeing representation of people like you done right. But anytime I see a latino make a stupid take like "Well I'm latino and I relate to Goku more than *insert latino character* that proves that we don't need representation!!!" I just can't help but sigh in frustration. It's such a dumb, close minded take that slaps the face of latinos who DO relate to latino characters and representation. Like- great that you relate to Goku, but you don't speak for ALL OF US.
So those guys can't imagine a cool latino action character.
Also, Goku is an okay character. I don't hate him, but man he doesn't get any development.
KARLA?? HOLY CRAP HII 🫂🫂
What is your opinion on “Book of Life,” if you’ve seen it? Just curious, because I kinda liked that movie more (both are great movies though, in my opinion)
As a Latina, I'd kill to see a Uruguayan character on screen cuz their rarely recognised in media
@@somik-i3x
Right? I'm white and Machete is like the first dude who came to mind.
Asian representation is always about either Japanese, Chinese, or Korean people. I wish there were some cool Filipino characters in mainstream media that I could see myself in
Fr there's so much of the world's cultures and people that are untouched in media, it'd be a great to see change not just for the representation qualities but I also want to hear new stories from different perspectives.
Literally. All I can think of is Alexandra Trese, Sucy from Little Witch Academia, and the g0ddamn Nutshack
@@RevelationsPrimo It isn't much else, but in the latest Transformers series there's Alex Malto, who's easily one of the highlights of the show even after the falloff in season 2
@@S1mply_Gr4y also apparently Lars from Steven Universe of all characters is also Filipino?? Like, it literally took him to *d¡e* and resurrect before he became a likeable/good person.
I still don't know how to feel about that, especially me now knowing Lars is Pinoy
@@S1mply_Gr4y also, that's sad
:(
That sucks when a good representation is brought down by poor writing. It hopefully will pave the way for better writers to come along and right those wrongs tho.
But omg, is Hollywood so slow on the representation uptick
Representation absolutely matters. When I was a kid, I love seeing Kevin and Ethan in Power Rangers. Now that I'm older, I love seeing Jack in SPD, Scott in RPM, TJ in Turbo and In Space, Katie in Time Force etc. Don't ever let people tell you that you're wrong for liking or wanting representation. Just because they're a minority who doesn't see diversity as a big thing doesn't mean you have to.
Kate is my favorite yellow ranger, she is so sweet.
I disagree. I think relatability is fine, and that if you need a character to look like you just to feel represented, then honestly, that says more about you as a person than anything else.
@@Vice_Verse0 Respectfully I disagree. Relatability is fine for you and that's great. But some people want characters who look like them or are similar to them and that's not a bad thing.
Being black and Muslim all I ever wanted was minorities in media be depicted as the flawed and quirky people we all are as humans. Not paraded around by big corporations, not demonized as an identity, just human. There’s a lot of archetypes and tropes you just don’t see with minorities played at and it frustrates me.
If anyone ever played Half Life or New Vegas both have militant Christian characters who recite their book while acting like a badass. I was thinking man, what if there was a Joshua Graham but a Muslim.
Or how about the know it all sarcastic jerk ala Dr. House or Rick. But played as a woman.
In the real world, people are multifaceted and complex, they don’t fit into boxes and the dice roll of personalities aren’t seen in media.
As South Asian Muslim guy I agree 💯
Could I introduce you to our great benevolent King Isaac from the hit netflix tv series Castlevania?
I think a sarcastic doctor/scientist know it all woman. Would probably be a lifetime worth of antidepressants.
I hope they’ll be more diverse writers in the future who enter the creative field and produce something this wonderful.
May I recommend the Green Lantern Corps members Simon Baz from DC comics? I haven’t read a ton with him but I think he’s a great character
Unsure if this counts but No Name Assassin/The Zealot from Fate/strange:fake?
Whose identity as a Muslim and her intense devotion to her faith defines her character and motivation
AM I HAPPY WITH WHO I AM 🗣️ 🗣️ 🔥 🔥 🔥
AM I HAPPY WITH THE PEOPLE AROUND ME 🗣️🗣️
the point that nobody ever brings up with the mindset that "representation doesnt matter" is that many young people probably gravitated towards anime characters/non human characters/characters with no specific race in media BECAUSE of the lack of representation for people of color. yes people do care if the characters are cool and written well, but what does that subliminally tell a child if all of the characters who are protrayed as cool and noble in their media are white?
That is usually where people start “coding” character.
Pretty much the entire Dragonball fandom unanimously agrees Piccolo is Black for this reason.
@demidevildonnie
I get what you mean . I did manage to find an Anime with a more diverse ethnic group of characters with various skin colors . The Anime is called Megalo Box . The representation of different races isn't perfect in the Anime itself, but it is a step in the right direction I believe. Plus it's just a very good Anime in general and pays reference and respect to a classic Anime series called Ashita No Joe. I highly recommend watching both Anime.
Exactly! There were studies that showed young black girls thought a white doll was beautiful but the black one wasn't. Why? Because the media portrayed that. If POC only see themselves portrayed as bad in media, they end up hating aspects of themselves and it's heart breaking
The wildest thing is that White people will come out in droves saying that race swapping anime characters is bad despite all the anime characters likely default to being Japanese unless stated otherwise.
I'm cantonese and turning red was such good and authentic representation yet so many people shit on it and attacked the VA for Mei for literally no reason
They did attack the movie for a reason. The reason was racism.
Old nerd here, very old nerd. Whenever you hear a black person saying they "related to so and so character even though they weren't black", just ask them, "did you have any other choice?" Growing up, I didn't relate to ANY black superheroes. Why? Most of them sucked. They were either sidekicks or over the top brutes or strangely weak and timid. There was no black Goku or Batman I could read about regularly (Black Panther was never popular and went years without having his own title). So we had to accept white alpha male heroes, which is what heroes are about at the end of the day. They are heroic fixations.
What's REALLY happening today is that the people who throughout their history have been the archetype for these heroic ideals in popular media now have to share the stage. Also, there's a heaping dose of anti-blackness thrown in.
I honestly don't get peoples' hatred of representation. If they're so insistent that "relatability is enough" then why would having more people represented be an issue? Since by their own logic they should still be able to relate to characters who aren't strictly white, cis or straight.
if only applies if its aimed away from them
because they see that as an attack to whiteness. whiteness is the default, conventional, 'acceptable' race.
This maybe just me but personally it's about the authenticity and making it feel natural.
Back in early 2000s diversity and representation wasn't a thing to me I just saw characters as characters the race or gender of the character was the least thing on my mind. Now growing up in my late teens I see why representation is important because some of these companies don't necessarily care about us they're just there to sell a product. Think about static shock for example DC can make multiple shows about Batman and Superman but they won't make another show about Static, Hell DC never gave wonder woman her own animated series which is wild.
Finn from starwars the force awakens felt like an interesting characters until the last 2 trilogy films making him a complete joke and thirsty for rey that was bad representation
As a blackman who makes his own characters i think of 2 things. 1. Writing them as actual characters.
2. Making diversity feel natural and authentic
@@Achieme you have very valid reasons, but most people who get mad at black or diverse characters its just plain racism
@@elcatrinc1996 oh no I understand that but this is from my POV cause I and sometimes people that have a similar mind set get pinned in with the actual racist.
Let's say that I dislike race or gender swapping. if I said that people would assume im racist/sexist (even tho im black) but when I have my actual reason behind it, it's because they can use already existing characters that have yet to get the spotlight because they're on the shelf collecting dust or they can create new characters that can rival or even be better than the og. I like seeing diverse characters but why aren't we getting the one's we've been asking for or could actually get. They'll either understand/agree or they'll still pin me with the actual racist.
I agree racism plays a factor but only a small portion and not everyone gonna make everyone happy but sometimes the world isn't just black and white. And maybe it's just me but I never heard any racism/sexism towards El tigre, coco (Disney), static shock, Black panther, totally spies, alien, terminator or arcane because those are great shows/movies
This is something you gotta deal with a lot with autistic representation, esp since its not like any other type of representation where you either just know or its not plot important unless its specifically shown. Thing is, its very easy to unintentionally write autistic characters and even have them go through autism specific situations with the writer being completely oblivious, which is cool but issue is most people just arent going to pick up on it unless its explicitly stated (even if the character is intentionally coded). This also goes for ADHD characters
I just put it this way, every single piece of fiction is made by people somewhat on the spectrum. From the interactions, the ideas, the dialog, for you to create that stuff, you gotta be a tad bit autistic. Not an insult, but I think 90% of people who pursue art n literature are not generally people who can hold up a normal conversation. So really, everything is subconsciously autistic representation.
as someone with adhd yes!!
Yes exactly!! I don't know why but I've seen autistic coded characters (even if written like that unintentionally) be better representation for autism than explicitly autistic characters that we're conceived that way. It seems like most of the explictly autistic rep we get in media are cishet white Sheldon Cooper/Good Doctor types or caricatures of autistic people with higher support needs that are non-verbal/don't behave in neurotypical ways (like Music, Sia's movie). Neither have actual autistic people behind those characters.
I’m autistic and a writer and I just kind of accepted that I’m probably gonna write everyone under my pen a little neurodivergent even when I’m not trying, and I’m good with that
@@AlexMartinez-nn2cm
Sheldon isn't canonically autistic afaik, he falls into that "unintentional" side of things.
They say twitter is bad because of "wOkE cUltUrE" and then THEY are the ones saying things like THESE 😭😭😭😭
If anything, twitter isn't even close to 'woke culture,' it's just a space of, well...certain people from 1930s germany
@@Lemoncakelover678
YESSS ikr and then there are the ppl who draw anime children doing... Things... If you know what I mean 💔💀. It's so far away from "woke culture" it isn't even funny
I hate the work "woke" because originally it was a term used by black people to be aware of what's really going on. Now that word is high jacked and views in a negative manner.
@@Achieme
Yes this too! Also Social Justice Warrior irc
@@PastelHime I totally forgot about that. They went from SJW to Woke, I wonder what word they'll highjack next lol
When I think about the fact that we have 3 black April O'Neils in canon TMNT projects, I genuinely get emotional thinking about how much this would've rocked my world as a kid and how happy I am for the kids now who get to grow up with them. The franchise is 40 years old and these characters are the first time I've EVER felt represented. There was nothing more I wanted as a little girl than to go on adventures with the turtles, but April always looked a certain way and in the shows there were no other black characters besides Baxter Stockman (can't speak for the comics but I assume it's similar). Even with the other shows I watched my favorite characters were rarely the sole black one. Unfortunately I internalized hard that in order to be cool or pretty like the girls in these shows I had to be white or asian with long straight hair. I'm still working through how much that messed me up, and I know I'm not the only one who experienced something like that. Can't believe people are actually arguing about whether representation matters STILL, it's so dumb 😒
April in original 80s indie comics was a black girl(and the comic quite violent unlike the 80s cartoon adaptation.)
It's unfortunate but you had to go outside mainstream comics to get more diverse characters.
@@zainmudassir2964 That's a misconception. April was not originally black. She had curly hair for a stint in the original comics and those panels are often what gets linked to the claims even though it was just an 80s perm but she was named after the wife of one of the cocreators.
I love this take so much, I’m really happy you could find more recent versions of April
@@zainmudassir2964 Technically old comics April is more of a white woman with a perm. At most she was heavily based on a black woman at times, notably one of the co-creator’s wife at the time. It definitely looks like she was used as reference to draw April at times, but comic April is still white.
Interesting you mention Baxter, because he was white washed in the 87 cartoon.
Racist: “uhh, just relate to white characters, it’s not that hard.”
Black person: *cosplays a white character*
Racist: “NOOOOOOOOOO NO NO NO NOOOO 🤬🤬🤬 YOURE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT”
Me when strawman🤑 (like fr nothing else comes to mind?)
@@doonrat9409 Please learn what strawman means before using the term
@@S1mply_Gr4y Most people don’t use ideas like the strawman in a 100% literal sense but okay you can have that, I’ll rephrase “This does not happen in reality” there.
@@doonrat9409 It does though? And has? Numerous times.
what kind of fictional scenario is this?
Remember yall, getting cooked on twt doesnt necessary mean you are in the wrong. Praying for yall🎉
It just means you posted in the wrong place
I'll say from experience, you're correct. It's not wrong at all to want people of color to want authentic representation and not feel threatened WHEN they book those roles. I've notably been called a racist for wanting such a thing and given death threats, saying I shouldn't work again, and that just makes me louder.
"Representation does not matter." - People who are currently losing their absolute minds over a black samurai
worst part is there are actual criticisms of what we've seen of the game so far like how they aren't advertising their other protag for some reason and seemed to put little effort into getting the timelines of when certain crop yields happen, but it's all being drowned out by the most insufferable, whiny people known to man
Ubisoft boasts the Assassin's Creed games to be historically accurate even though the guy they're basing off of (Yasuke) wasn't a Samurai at all. It's so rich to use that as an example when they did a poor job at representing Japanese culture.
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 The assassin's creed games have never been historically accurate, and to claim so is an egregious lie. There's also historical proof Yasuke was in fact a samurai, though the issue comes in the fact that so little of his life was recorded that it becomes difficult to establish this by researching him alone and you have to use context from the era he existed in. You can take umbrage with how bad what we've seen of the game's level of care regarding Japanese culture so far is (here's to hoping they take note of the criticism and put more care into the final product, but it's ubisoft so I wouldn't hold my breath) and the fact they've neglected to highlight their Japanese protagonist as well, but please do that with good faith and an unbiased lens in mind.
Ask yourself why everyone loved Afro Samurai and universally loved and why Yasuke in assassin’s creed is deeply hated by Japan and America.
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 They have never claimed that the games are historically accurate lol. An italian asassasin did not in fact fight a pope wielding an apple from the garden of eden.
I despise that mentality of "Well I'm *insert demographic* and I actually vibe more with a character NOT from my demographic"
Like good for you, but some others enjoy the feeling of being seen and respected, being able to see themselves in the media they love, it's amazing! That connection is misconstrued by people who hardly ever need to peer through to find that connection in the first place, thus they result to making up strawmen to try and justify their ignorance.
Couldn't one make a counter argument basically saying "ok but what if there were virtually no or very few characters with that characteristic or worse if that characteristic was actively demonized and shown to be inherently evil, how would you feel then?"?
It’s folding in on itself half the time too, because your conclusion to “I can’t relate to representation of my demographic” should be “we need more representation with more character types” versus “we need less representation”. It hurts so bad.
and like it should be a good sign that you relate to characters not in your demographic. it shows that you can have empathy for people not like you. this is an argument for more representation. this shows that we as humans can vibe with characters that aren't mirrors of ourselves. this is a GOOD THING. you SHOULD be able to vibe with characters not like you. i'm not Asian, but I really like the characters from the radiant emperor duology. i'm not Black, but i love toni morrison's works and i really loved Black Leopard, Red Wolf by Marlon James. i'm a lesbian, but i can relate to bisexual characters. we should be able to look at people not like us and go "hm are they cool?" and that's the end of that.
@@louc.6735 Couldn't have said it any better
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I think honestly just balancing things out to include more diversity in all regards is supportive but if there was a source of media that did just this, and included a character merely as a token, to then demonize them then I'd genuinely could understand the vitriol behind that. There probably has been cases like this but at that point if the person behind the creation of this setting went out of their way to only have the representation as an inherent evil or demonized that's alarming to say the least, on part of the creator.
I used to think how some of those people did. I was like “I only relate to male characters, and these people say I should only like the girl characters” then I figured out I was a trans dude lmao
@@sniffxy what?
@@sniffxyGood for you?
Me but in absolutely the opposite direction.
"Why do I only relate to girl characters?"
WELL JANE I WONDER
Watching this video made me realize something. Recently with all the bigots being louder than ever, I have just been losing hope, like Ill have someone say the f slur to my face, insult my fellow trans people, make fun of disabled people, make a distasteful joke about race and Ill just sigh. Like I'm so tired of hate, I need just a sliver of love in my life. I don't have energy to deal with this anymore... I don't know why I'm even writing this
The problem is that being in a minority basically means every day you gain 1 token of good will for being "one of the good one's" but if anyone in the world that claims to be part of the same group does something bad you pretty much lose all your tokens and need to start over
grow some skin and learn how to wade through the world you were born into LOL
Thank you for sharing this. It’s sad that someone would think it’s okay to say that. Whether online or real life. Bigotry is unacceptable. I wish you well during these difficult times😁❤️
This resonates deeply. I'm in a few marginalized spaces I have been feeling similar things. I just want to exist peacefully. I want love, security and tenderness. Im so exhausted by the hate and anger.
Whenever you think today sucks, look back through history and you'll realize we're getting better as a species. Hey, slavery is illegal in most countries now, infant mortality is no longer over 50%, we're getting better and internet and news screaming at you is just perception.
The "representation doesn't matter" people always annoy me because it is such an ignorant and bad faith interpretation of why art exists in the first place. Like... do you understand the human tradition of storytelling? Do you understand that every culture and every group of people's make art? Do you understand why people make art even when they are not being paid, even when they aren't allowed, and even when it isn't popular? Do you understand why art is different and varied and why art constantly changes?
When you understand WHY art exist in the first place, it's clear to see that "representation doesn't matter" means "black and non-white people should not be able to engage in culture or the human experience".
your comment should inversely go against the indoctrinated & polarized mindset of setting generalizations against any individuals of Humans based on skin tone.
as much as i relate to nathalie from miraculous ladybug there's still some disconnect because she isn't black like me and blackness doesn't affect her life (like it does mine).
I can't imagine waking up with your limited time on this planet and deciding to be a hater for no damn reason other than someone might enjoy something
EL TIGRE MENTIONED 🗣🗣🗣
el tigre is such a a good show dude
In response to me saying "Wouldnt it be nice if the characters black people related to also looked like them?" Some headass replied with this:
"The problem there is that you are attaching identity to skin color. If you think a character can be improved by changing the color of their skin, even if in a minor way that is racism."
...Twitter, man.
Edit: Since so many of y'all are insisting the guy saying "only white/white claimable characters are relatable, so clearly you're the racist here" has a point, I wanna make it clear that I was *never* arguing for race swapping at all. *They're* the ones who brought that into the conversation. All I said was "I want relatable black characters".
Twitter, where all worse takes shine
Respond this to this assist.
"How many proment poc characters existed in said property before this particular year?, we're not in the time where white is the default ethnicity and blacks and others were reduced to BG's and stereotypical roles, or worse yet, being part of minstrel blackface shows that seek to stigmatize blacks as well as deny them opportunities, and your use of cherrypicking isn't flying here, what of your poorly thought out assessment screams "racism"? when racism has systemic power that still effects us to this day".
Tell that to this asshat.
Twitter went from shit to turbo shit after Elon took over.
I’m not calling it “X” that’s stupid.
That’s a dumbass comment. Wow oh wow… Thank goodness I do not have a Twitter (X)🫠…
wow identity includes in itself the way a person looks? or rather sees themself? shocking
as a kid i never really fucked with spiderman, but when the first spiderverse movie came out, my world changed. it was really the first character i ever felt really represented me. there have been tons of characters i relate to like Sam Winchester or Ferb, but Miles was the first time I saw a character that really felt like me. i saw myself in him and felt like i could do the things he could. i can overcome whatever hardship i face because miles did, and he’s just like me.
5:31 Also one thing that isnt explicitly mentioned regarding that comic is that the straw-man argument it makes also has an antisemitic twist to it, with the fictional creator of the left side being named "Mike J. Johnson Goldman" with a hooked nose, so the maker of that comic can be plausibly believed to think that representation in media is some "Jewish Conspiracy" or whatever.
Also the simple fact of the gigachad Latino rep being white while both the director and 'bad' rep character are brown
That comic was dedicated to the biggest lolcow of the latin american community btw, it's quite the rabbit hole so tl dr, It was made from clowns, to clowns.
I’m Latino and I’ve never fucked with Goku.
Crucify, make me watch those drawn out mf fights in DBZ, I don’t care. He’s not what I like, is nothing like me, and gets his ass handed to him by Sailor Moon.
Going into my 3rd year of my Ph.D. in a STEM field, I’ve constantly asked where are the nerdy Latinos both in media and real life. I’m not fictional. So, why can’t I even HAVE FICTION represent me in the media I watch?
Thank you king for saying this, I’m a Mexican who never cared about DBZ but I get crucified by others when we literally have sailor moon right thereeeee
Congratulations on your Ph.D. journey👏🏾!
@@InfinityRise1 That’s fair even as a fan of Goku!
@@JulianSteve Appreciate it!
Sailor Moon!!! Would run circles around DBZ characters. Would hand them their ass in mere minutes. I agree. 👏🏽
Honestly, Brazilian representation is so rare i am taking every scrap i can because guess what? The latino america is not a monolith and representating like, only puerto rico and mexico does not representate the entire latine culture and we need more to see more stories that ain't like, just america or japan, maybe canada or brigtain when yall need another flavor of white
At least we've got some in that new anime
me with metis rep… despite being half a million strong we have (checks notes) Katherena Vermette’s writing and buffalo is the new buffalo and that is it. plus they always pick BC Quebec or Toronto if it’s Canada but then again Alberta and Manitoba probably have too many natives
I agree with you. Latino (Latine) representation has been exclusive to certain ethnic and racial groups. Hopefully, more stories can become diverse and mainstream👏🏾!
I relate to this but as someone who is south Sudanese with ‘African representation’ a lot of the time they throw a stereotypical (west) African accent on a black person and that’s it
@@chxrryery4188ON GOD 😭 I ain’t even seen any good west African rep😭
8:20 If I’m allowed to play Devil’s Advocate, Gods of Egypt flopped specifically because nobody in the cast was melanated or melanated enough, and to this day, we all clown on The Last Airbender for the objective failure that it was starting with the whitewashed characters.
All these bad faith arguments are especially weird since most characters in popular media are STILL mainly white and heterosexual. Like the push for diversity has just barely gotten started and the bigots are crying like things have really changed that much. It’s lowkey funny 😂
Honestly I don’t even take seriously some of these dumb clout chasers who constantly need to uphold the status quo yet act like they are having a “hot take”
Like these dudes fr be moving like boondocks characters, except they are being deadass 💀
(11:27 how tf do you get ratioed for being right? I was right we are actually living in a boondocks episode 😭🙏🏿)
You get ratioed for being right when idiots think you're wrong
@@ioc6283 yeah it’s sad honestly, being ganged up by a bunch of idiots when you spoke nothing but facts is proof that there is no “woke mob” to be afraid of, if we are obviously in the minority than it isn’t a mob
The privileged just want to be seen as victims while weaponising privilege 🤦🏿♂️
it’s twitter. it’s fuckin run by modern day joseph goebels. ofc the person who is right is ratioed lol
@@ioc6283"Getting cooked on Twitter doesn't mean you were wrong."
@@InfinitySevens yes, that is the mentality
“whiteness is anything so whiteness isn’t anything” is actually so fascinating to me. i’ve never been able to pinpoint what made me “white” other than my complexion (and rooted bigotry in my family) so that really puts things into perspective
That's something I've seen being talked about when discussing right wing circles and their search for "roots" and "heritage" being often manipulated by the right
it's such a banger line
@@airplanes_aren.t_real The thing is also that "whiteness" as congealed into this amorphous yet stationary thing that shouldnt be tainted and is easily tainted. (One drop rule as example). The side effect is ironically many different European cultures are phased out in order to exclude non European ones. It's the everyman or default.
It’s like whiteness specialized so hard in excluding ‘Others’ that it even excluded the true ethnicities subsumed into it.
Honestly the whole "Whiteness is anything so whiteness isn't anything" just blatantly ignores the huge differences in things a white person experiences and a none white person experiences. The only reason why you see white as just your skin color is because you're only looking at it as just skin color and not things such as white privilege, culture and expectations
Donatello is an underrated turtle. yt person: "a smart ninja is dangerous."
Isnt the point for them to be dangerous? They would not be very good at crime fighting if they were not dangerous.
@@maggie3060 not that kind of ninja, dawg...
I like turtles
Thank you.
And also, the genshin fandom's response to Natlan KILLED ME.
Like someone else said, they're basically saying "Everything about your culture is beautiful...but uhm...yeah, you can use a little bit of tweaking."
and this happened TWICE
@@vanitasz the characters are WHITE as hell. I wasn't in the fandom during Sumeru so I didn't get to experience it, but god I felt the rage when that Natlan trailer came out. And the fandom is riding hoyo so hard.
Someone deadass told me "you're on the genshin subreddit complaining about the skintone of fictional characters when a potential president just got shot".
OH MY GODDDD.
@@adamas5925 Don't forget how they never seem to grasp the fact that maybe them having to defend a character having an exceedingly light skin tone every other month might be because that character maybe shouldn't have one.
You know shit goes down when they bring the white pharaoh image out.
Yeah Genshin fans and Hoyoverse would literally look you right in the eye and tell you colorism isn't a problem that exists and chinese game devs don't owe you nothing while jacking whole culture's clothing styles, music and even mythology bc they think it looks cool, like atp it's just appropriation plain and simple. Bum ass gacha game
It's like they have a problem with people who aren't the same race as them...if only there were a word for that...
I feel like rep sometimes does tie into relatability like the example that was used for tiana. One that that I also thought up of is the movie coco, I related to the movie alot specifically because it was a Mexican centric story about culture, family and what it means to accept each other for who they are and to forgive for past mistakes. Does that mean anyone who has related to it that isn't mex, HAS to be mexican? No, you can be any other race and still relate to having a generationally traumatized family or relate to the other themes in the movie. Another movie I related to was turning red, despite me not being Chinese, I still related to meimei because of the relationship she had with her mom. But the main point tho, none of that excuses people from being "hurhur rep doesn't matter" bcs it clearly does to me and a lot of other people with theses specific stories, whether it be implied to be a specifically hispanic, african american, asian american, whatever... People like to relate and be seen, but most people dont wanna accept that or really care/want to see that and brush it off as "woke" idk, thanks joey for making this video bcs I fr thought asking for more rep of people like myself is a crime apparently lmao
Personally I feel like the problem stems from the premise itself, it treats representation of different cultures and races as inherently different to representation of different personality traits and interests, not saying they aren't different but if we treated representation as just "showing characteristics of x group in x character" as opposed to this weird protest against whiteness (a great cartoon replacement if you will) this whole argument would be dead in the water
Like verdis said this ain't even worth debating over
@@airplanes_aren.t_real o yea, i get that
@@airplanes_aren.t_real Thing is, i dont think anyone is arguing to replace every white character with someone who isnt white.
You might get one or two crazy people who feel that way, but most people who want representation of theirs and other's culture don't.
The representation of nonwhite people is not the death of white people in media.
What I do see though is arguments against things like whitewashing, which is directly harmful to representation as it excludes the very people from the culture being depicted.
This dichotomy is crazy to me cause like, why doesn't it apply the other way around?? If relatability is the most important thing then the race of the character shouldn't matter, so why are people angry at stories centered around POC?? Okay Goku was really relatable to you even though he isn't Black, then what's stopping a white person from relating to Miles? Or 2018 April???
Wouldn't this logic mean that no matter how specific/marginalized the mc is in a show people shouldn't care?????????
Whatever, I'm having the time of my life making my silly lil black and gay stories lmao.
Saying this as a black guy who’s had a passion for writing for over a decade, for me, good representation in any sort of media is just a well written character, who happens to be of a certain ethnic group. If the character is well written, I’m cool.
Wow, a normal comment on this video. Hallelujah 😂
The problem is a lot of modern writers are terrible at their jobs and don't write characters of diverse ethnic groups well. This in turn attracts a lot of actual bigots who attack representation under the guise of wanting good writing.
@@flockinifythats a wider problem of industry as a whole rather than just stuff that's trying to write diversity.
so real
I mean, that's all it really should be, a character just themselves in media but then you got people polarizing that skin tones and ethnicity don't matter in fictional worlds....and then purposely gawk at Neo-Japan or very obviously Tolken Fantasy Europe.
People are so irony poisoned that it's not even a hard question to ask but given how much escapism exists in fiction for so many, it's seen as hostile.
I'm Irish and grew up in the occupied six counties, while there was a war going on. I had a diet of mostly British and American TV shows, and a few Canadian and Australian ones that made it over here. Our local TV didn't make stuff for children. It was shit, I had to watch my colonial oppressors making TV about other kids doing normal shit and not having to worry about bomb scares or curfews, living the lives of stability and normality that my entire community were denied. I resented and scorned their sanitised existences, as depicted on television.
Representation is good. Maybe if I'd been able to see something a bit more relatable that I could have seen myself in, even just someone with the same accent that can actually do it properly, I think I'd have loved it. I'm glad we have Cartoon Saloon now. I hope some day we get a full Blood Of Zeus style full on animated adaptation of The Táin or The Book Of Invasions or The Fenian Cycle (but I'll settle for the OSP videos for now, those are great).
FR, all we got was that Captain Planet episode. Like it was thoroughly entertaining because it was funny but Jesus Christ the night, it wasn't trying to be. Look it up some time.
14:27 this part about how they move the goalpost hits so hard for me, finally puts into words a frustration I've had for a long time.
You’re right. People should be happy to see themselves on screen. The fact that bigots can’t see that or at least do the responsible thing and keep quiet when someone says “it’s not for you” are just wasting their own time. If they want to be stuck in the past or in their own arrogant viewpoint, that’s their issue.
That "it's not just for you" quote really resonated with me.
I remember when Venom first came out in 2018 and the queer community immediately jumped out to claim Venom as one of us because the Symbiote was written to be explicitly seperate from Eddie, therefore Venom's need to find a friend in Eddie, while still fighting for his right to remain just the way he is and to be seen as more than just a scary monster, is sooo synonymous to the average queer experience.
Many shipped Eddie and Venom and ppl were calling it a thriller romcom for a reason, me included lol. But then a bunch of bigots just had to come out of the woodworks to bash us, saying that since venom and Eddie didn't have hard core gay shreks it didn't count as if they could tell the gays how to gay, while completely ignoring the reason why we kin venom to begin with.
For once there is a piece of media that we feel belong to us, and bigots still want to take it away. You have all the toys and this one tiny thing is for us and you still get pissy? At this point do bigots even like movies anymore?
@@CATmetchu To add onto this, the symbiote's relationship with Eddie has been queer-coded for decades (I only say coded because Marvel's never officially recognized their relationship as a romance, but the symbiote itself has compared their bond to a romance) and damn near each and every host the symbiote has had other than Eddie fit a different relationship archetype, with Angelo Fortunato was the post-breakup fling, Gargan was the toxic rebound, so on and so forth.
Also they have two children and one of them was born while Eddie was the symbiote's host, effectively making them both parents who conceived a child together--
@@CATmetchu I’m sorry to hear what the bigots did. I was rewatching Spectaular Spider-Man two years ago, and Venom and Eddie are relationship coded for years. The fact that bigots can’t seem to view it that way by the subtext just says that “it isn’t for you then if you can’t see the subtext.”
I agree. Venom and Eddie have always been implied to be in a relationship. They have literal kids even though Venom says his species reproduces asexually, they were just dancing around of them trying to not say they’re gay. Which sucks to a degree because asexual people shouldn’t be reduce to that. That’s probably a different topic.
I always notice how bigots get pissy of the phrase 'its not for you' they have millions of media they can watch for them but they rather rain on someone else's parade, then whine about people calling them out for it.
THIS IS SO REAL!!! Cus as a little mexican kid, when i went to go see spiderman into the spiderverse in theaters and I heard Miles's mom call em "mijo" I went CRAZY LMAO
(Ik they are puerto rican xD I was just happy for hispanic rep)
My dad tells me that during the 2008 election(when I was 4 btw), when Obama got elected, I apparently had a giant smile on my face and was dancing around the room. I was 4, I had no idea what this meant, I could barely count to 15. But in that moment, I felt seen. And that's why I know representation matters.
It’s also really ironic seeing right leaning people on twitter whining about representation, who remembers when they got mad at the new Assassins creed (with the historical black character) for not having “asian male representation”
Now all of a sudden representation matters to them?
I guess it only matters when it’s used to shut down more representation
Their also ignoring the other asian girl in front of them
"We have had games where Oda Nobunaga was a girl" is the one tweet that will stick with me.
I'm Samoan, and all the representation I have in mainstream media that I know of is Moana, Gibraltar from Apex Legends, and Mauga from Overwatch 2. When Mauga was released, the sheer joy I felt was immeasurable. Representation matters so fucking much, and I appreciated this video.
“Wow, THAT IS RELATABLE “😊
“Hey guys, it’s a STORY TIME!”
The tweet show are the exact same people quick to say black people aren't a monolith. But then turn around and speak authoritatively about how all black people feel about current media.
WAKE UP THUG NEW VERDIS UPLOAD
I'm awake
I think it’s really funny how Goku is usually framed as a white guy in this conversation, like people counter to people wanting more representation for people of color is to say that a Japanese character was relatable so actually no we don’t need people of color in media. Like how are people so racist they internally change a characters race to white so they don’t have to think about it. I can get a kid maybe getting confused but grown adults?
Goku is a literal immigrant raised in an Asian country, an aspect which is reflected in literally every part of his life including the way that he dresses, and niggas on Twitter will still be like "well he's white-passing so he's clearly one of us, but look at all the little pigmented children who like him" completely unironically
What I'm saying is we should lobotomize twitter checkmarks-
A lot of them don't see asian anime characters as asian. They just see them as a different flavor of white
@@Slowpoke-v this is facts you can see it in how cosplayers are treated black cosplayers can never just cosplay a non black character without being told that "oh this character isnt black" or "you dont look like the character/ but a white cosplayer can cosplay an Asian anime character and get no comments like that in fact people will just see the costume and recognize the character instead of focusing on skin color
@@Radiolonestar There’s a lot of notable examples of cosplay pictures being replied with “you’re not white enough” when the characters Asian. People are just dumb.
@@Radiolonestar I've seen this type of gatekeeping happen to physically disabled people in cosplay too. "Oh, you need a wheelchair? Yeah, your cosplay is bad because the character doesn't use one and I can't see the character with a wheelchair", what happened to doing cosplay for fun and not to be perfect and/or lore-accurate? Who cares if a Vegeta uses a cane to walk around because the cosplayer requires one? Why does it matter if Sailor Moon is rolling around? There is no answer other than bias and prejudice
Also, I feel that there is some unspoken sentiment that black cosplayers should stick to characters like miles morales, black panther, or *insert popular black character here*, which are absolutely not bad characters to cosplay but it's just more shit by only allowing white people to chose whoever they want
My glorious king posted
The "wokeness" thing being bad was something I actually believed in when I was still in school. I was doing the "im black and blah blah thing" Now that im older looking back, these arguments never work.
As you stated at the last segment "Make your own characters" isnt genuine. Because when they do (theyve done it before now and after) the wokeness argument changes into more of a general thing that "infects" media as a whole rather than a specific change in a media property. Original characters with different perspectives or new stories STILL get shit. If its good then its vague critques like "Miles isnt spiderman", if its bad its full on bigotry.
Representation matters to the ppl who complain about "wokeness" when its "DEI". They want to be REPRESENTED in their way while excluding others which really makes the "Representation doesnt matter" line just a lie. Its to keep the status quo and attack everyday ppl instead of actual issues with industries. To them its easy to scream at ppl on screen and not systems because they dont want those systems to change.
Or when they do praise it they either make sure to speak little about 'da woke' stuff or they just pretend to like it like they haven't crapped on it in other IPs that weren't received well
It always irks me when I see Clout Chasers who want to turn this into propaganda while people like us grew up seeing these types of characters' struggles and all it's just so worthwhile.
Like for example for me the TMNT 1990 movie I never thought I would identify with Raphael with all the shit that he's going through because you know I was a kid but now that I'm grown up he's my all-time favorite turtle.
Another example is Miles Morales and what he goes through in Across the spider verse I remember him saying everyone keeps telling how my story is supposed to go, Nah I'm'a do my own thing. I went through a similar thing growing up so seeing that on the big screen means something to me
Words can't fully describe the level of alienation I felt as a kid never seeing anyone like me in my favorite shows and movies. The sheer euphoria I feel whenever I see my people in things nowadays can't be overstated.
I am indeed asking for representation in Super Monkey Ball
9:01 My mom legit cried in the movie theatre when we saw The Little Mermaid live action because she felt so represented, to matters so much more than certain people realize
this representation is only arbitrary & superficial, based on the polarization & generalization, that'll lead Humans with the relatability factor being deemed with likeability & representation for the sake of it, & differentiating because of it.
this video is basically like this, but inversely against those who argue about 'representation doesn't matter'.
This right here is the exact reason why Ethan is and always will be my favorite blue ranger. Yes there were other nerd rangers before and after him that I could relate to, but Ethan just hits different. The intersection of nerd culture with your ethnic culture creates an experience unique to your background, and while Ethan’s blackness doesn’t play much of a role in the story itself, whoever was in charge of his wardrobe understood the assignment, and Kevin Duhaney bodied that role. And Jack is still in my top 5 rangers too.
For similar reasons, I also love Cameron from Total Drama, which is funny cause he’s also played by Keven Duhaney.
Of course, shout out to Power Rangers in general for showing a wide variety of how black men can look and act.
I was watching a video with a man complaining abot how woke Marvel's Spider Man 2 is and how Miles Morales was created by Barack Obama and that made me realize "oh god these people dont think before they talk". That was the epiphany that made me stop listening to anything these type of people talk about because it is going to be mostly bullshit they dreamed about once or very surface level stuff
I'm so braindead from the internet that this felt like a nice cold splash of water, thank you
As a Morocco person I almost never see a other Morocco girl in a show and man I’ll LOVE to see a other Arab person that isn’t a terrorist and I still have character that aren’t Arab I still love
People also forget how much media can impact your idea of reality, for better or for worse. People who don’t live next to people of other races/ethnicities only really understand them as they are presented in media, and if they are only exposed to the most generic stereotypes of that race as a side character in a story then that will be expressed in how they view them. Not showing cultural struggles in media makes less people aware about them, not showing the life of someone who is from a completely different background then what one considers “normal” narrows their understanding of the world. In an ideal world media should be full of diverse representation to enrich peoples understandings of the people who share the world with them- from there, people can choose what stories or what characters they relate to the most.
I also want to add that representation also makes you a more well-rounded person? Like when different people are [correctly] represented you learn about their cultures and experiences you might not have known about prior. More knowledge and perspective
Some people really want their edge…
Get it? Because “aNtI SjWs” don’t want to be more well rounded people, thus, edgy?
And they disguise their bigotry as “eDgY JoKeS”?
I know the way to the exit.
It's kinda funny how I'm also sure people who try to use Peter Parker and Goku for the "representation doesn't matter" argue are almost guaranteed to be the people constantly mischaracterizing characters like that
Most anime characters are Japanese and anime fans do not give a crap about that.
As a first gen 5:56 Mexican American , even the reaction to Primos is so ridiculously overblowned it’s laughable. Like seriously it was clear from the start it was specifically speaking about the experience of a Mexican American girl living in SoCal. I’m very aware with the fact that Chicano representation overtakes a lot of Latino rep here in English speaking countries but that’s a separate issue that I feel others kinda just project. So even Primos isn’t really a strawman either. Even if it’s a mid ass show, it still got hate that was unnecessary
Agree 100%
Honestly if Va of the main character of the show didn't make that godawful response video, show wouldn't have that amount of hate thrown at it
at this point, i'm not even fazed that this is apparently an argument online. because the people who do this shit and go off about how something like representation "doesn't matter" and so on, aside from the fact that they're only saying this shit because they're behind screens and wouldn't have the balls/ovaries to do it IRL because they know they'll get called out on it and have no defense that is valid, and the ones who do generally don't have a reality check or understand how to socialize, how it all comes off from my perspective is that they aren't involved in the conversation.
that's it.
people talking about how characters like Miles Morales are great representation, some dumbass that's always online goes "WHAT ABOUT ME, WHAT ABOUT WHAT I THINK" and want to be right for attention, not wanting to be questioned on it, and most likely this illusion that you'll get famous through pointless internet shit that most likely everyone will move on from in a week and not even bother to remember who they are. and then when a subject matter comes up that is questionable that they like and it gets called out (anime shit, mostly) those same people are seen either not saying anything, or defending it and not wanting to be questioned on it.
conversations and debates regarding matters like this wouldn't be an issue if the focus was more towards being constructive, but people who do this shit don't care.
People who use that Goku argument for hispanics unironcially seem racist and stereotypical.
"I'm black and I don't need representation."
Okay, pack it up everyone. The single person appointed by the Black Council to represent every single black person in the world says representation isn't needed. Anyone who says otherwise is to be completely ignored.
Rugrats making holiday specials for Jewish people meant a lot for me growing up. It’s a very imbedded American thing to have Christian based shows, even the least religious ones will have a Christmas special. (Although I’d argue Christmas isn’t about Jesus for most people these days). But having a show that explains that Hanukkah isn’t just “Jewish Christmas” and explains what that holiday is about with the story of the maccabees and the miracles… it’s important. Now if only I could see Jewish characters that wear kippahs constantly, and celebrate other holidays like sukkot and tubishvat…
Hey Arnold too
Do people not realise how fucking raw black or Hispanic Goku would be?
There are black goku edits out there
Can We say that Turles is black?
I think it's funnier to say that he is
Black Hispanic Goku would go so hard
The Freiza arc would definitely be a lot more funnier
@@suuslime3908
European humor.
I was hit with so much hate during those few days, people calling me racist and narcissistic for liking characters that reflect my heritage. Also rightfully pointing out people who use stonetoss art don't deserve to be heard out.
Damn, that sucks, hope things have gotten better since then though. It's always a weird thing with the "representation doesn't matter" crowd where they suffer from such debilitating cognitive dissonance that they genuinely can't see how racist and narcissistic they themselves are while hurling the same insults at someone for...what should be the most harmless, inoffensive statement ever.
I remember once saying I wanted more cuban-american rep or autistic rep (that isn't bullshit like The Fanatic or Music) in media, possibly both since that's who I am. And someone called me 'narcistic' for wanting that.
Ya, apparently it's narcistic for wanting to see someone like you in the media you enjoy.
"Just make your own story with that kind of representation."
Well, I recently finished a rough draft for a novel that stars a cuban-american man piloting a super robot. Can't wait to see what the next goal post is after that.
To be fair, all those accounts arguing could just be one guy on Twitter
Good video btw
Btw that Twitter account is a… very interesting person (I legit think he might’ve had a bad relationship)
leave it to white people to talk about how representation of non white people doesn't matter actually
With bigotry becoming louder and facism looming over us, I think that we need to be equally as loud with our representation of different races, sexualities, genders, and cultures in media.
Representation does matter. I just wish corporate writers could actually ya know… write.
They are. Maybe not corporations like Disney but we are getting decent black, gay and female characters,
But even then these people cry about that
When stuff like this happens, you can really tell that a lot of people never paid attention in any of their humanities classes.
im black and there was a point where i almost went down the road of those dudes then i started opening my mind up and I think im all the better for it
I know you talked about Primos but i wanted to say there's actually a great deal of Mexican Americans who actually relate to it, it did and does have valid criticisms against it but there a lot of things it actually does do right and the representation is done in a really wholesome way if that makes any sense. Maybe its demographic is a lot smaller but its a show about a mix raced child who's trying to navigate her life between 2 cultures and is trying to figure our who she wants to be on top of that. I know many people personally who do relate to that (whether they want to watch the show or not) I think people forget Primos isn't about Mexican culture, its Mexican-American culture.
The big problem with Primos was the way it was initially announced and marketed made it seem like they were asserting that this is the only "true latino" experience. This was made worse with their poor, initial response to the backlash instead of just clarifying that the show was about the Mexican American experience without patronizing the experiences of non-US latinos. Its unfortunate that this initial blunder not only hurt the show itself but allowed bad actors to poison the well of discussion about representation in media.
@@nathanaellazaro3347 Yes the Main VAs response was very icky, but yeah a lot of people thought it was representing a girl in Mexico, not a mixed race Mexican American.
Craig of the creek is incredible, it's a show about kids adventuring that also does representation, it's just good.
The internet man ⚰️
Representation 100% matters. Being a blasian static shock and american dragon held my early years down. But we need more varieties of representation.
Remember:
People who complain about actually diverse representation are the same ones who can’t understand when politics are in art.
What genshin did is so disgusting. Like since their inazuma patch they started giving everyone that vicco skin whitening cream. And excluding brown people's skintones from their games. But not their stories, folklore, language. Such a shitty thing for them to do not even their east Asian fans like what they're doing
Go under any short regarding mihoyos bs and I gurantee all you'll see is their fans cope and seethe and say something to the effect of "why would you expect a Chinese game company that clearly put some level of research into other cultures because they literally based characters off those cultures, make that character look the same as the kind of people coming from that culture!"
I’m gonna say pale skin is just more marketable in China, I don’t know
@@S1mply_Gr4yKids named Dislyte and Reverse 1999:
@@ThisparticularinconspicuousguyI mean, yeah, there is a whole systemic colourism problem across all of Asia (not just East Asia since I think it's even more egregious in places like India). Though I wouldn't really excuse giving every tan character a botched gameplay kit, either.
@unemploymentrates yeah a lot of Asian cultures love their lightskin but it still doesn't change the fact that they're doing is really wrong.
If representation didn't matter then why would it matter to them that the character is non-white? They should be able to relate just as hard according to their own logic.
But seriously, if you have any empathy for like, ppl of different social standings than your own it's actually really easy to see representation as entirely cool and good, cuz other ppl get that feeling they get when they see Peter Parker and think "we share a societal experience". I genuinely get really happy when I see a cool well written black character whose struggles (race related or not) are real, because it makes me think "some black kids probably see in Nagoriyuki what I see in Bridget, see in Bow what I see in Adora, see in Miles what I see in Gwen etc etc."
My mom went through this too, she's a huge trekkie and she initially dismissed captain Cisco as "Boring" until one of her black friends said "But it was so beautiful to see them appoint a black captain" and realized she felt the same way about Captain Janeway (Being a woman and all)
If you're railing against representation, you don't have a point, you have a skill issue in your ability to empathize.
if they made Batman latino, people would've lost their minds. But when they Made Bane white in the Dark Knight rises, noone cared.
We actually got a worse version of bane because of it.
Dark Knight Rises stole Bane's soul, blended it, mixed it with catfood and said "this is your villain now."
None of the elements that made him an interesting villain (his psychology, backstory and ability to threaten Batman mentally as well as physically) received any focus in the limited screentime he had, and whenever he talked he came across less scary or intelligent (which Bane absolutely should constantly) and more like he had a debilitating sickness that would kill him in 12 minutes time
Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed lol
Bane is brown latino
@@S1mply_Gr4y I do like that in Harley Quinn's and lego's version he still has the voice though. I just we'd see bane in more mainstream media and in a way thats accurate to the character
From 2017-2018, there were a total of 17 transgender characters in the entirety of TV media. This includes "characters" that said a single line of dialogue.
Can you imagine how that makes trans youth feel? To see practically no trans people existing in media, much less being a main character, and God forbid an actual story about the trans experience. Being a trans actor? Your ceiling is pathetically low.
Then recently I saw Hunter Schafer starring (not just saying a line or two) in Cuckoo. It gives me a feeling of joy I can't fully describe.
Representation absolutely matters.
Best example of Relatability =/= Representation I can think of is from me watching the Boondocks. Almost every major character in that show is black and deals with black culture on a daily basis, so I had lots of representation of my people. But the only character I actually related to was Huey.
Just like Huey, I know what it's like to have that fatal combination of being young and wise and being powerless to stop the world from burning around me cause people don't wanna listen to a kid telling them to stop destroying themselves. I knew a bunch of Rileys, Granddad was my grandparents and uncles, and I met my Jazmine far too late for her to help me. When Huey said "Why does it always have to end up like this..." when he was about to shoot his own brother (with BB guns), I felt that level of regret for what he thinks he has to do deep in my soul.
You can have Relatability and Representation, but they are not the same thing.
why did they have to bring goku into this
The alt-right spoils everything sacred.
i wish people had better takes on why representation was a bad thing rather them spoutung than "repretestation dont matta i relate more wolveen than mile morals", i rlly want to understand why they thought this way, but twitter i guess😔
Its always got me weirded out when people say Goku is representation as if Goku isnt just what it means to have human spirit as a prescribed alien. Hes not one race; he's just a good dude who wants to be in his best life.
I can accept looking at others and going, "Yeah I share that relation" but when I see a genuine afro-descent character just exist without a specific reason? Godlike, I just want to vibe.
I had the mindset of relatability > representation until a month ago when I was at New York getting my dreadlocks. done. (for context I moved to Pennsylvania two years ago) There I saw a mother and her daughter put on a TV show for the new black Ariel that was aimed towards kids. It didn't stick with me since I watched stuff made for kids too like cartoons and the like, but what got me is that this mother and daughter we're glad to see a young black mermaid going on adventures as if they were being seen. It was at that moment I thought "huh, yeah I relate to Optimus more but seeing my own skin color represented on an old character feels kinda nice as well even if it wasn't my gender."
As such, I say we should have more black, Spanish, asian, etc characters in our media. You might relate to Optimus prime, but do you wish to see a blackcoded Optimus prime?
Yessir he opened his mind, he opened his heart
For real, you spitting. Growing up in Africa and being into nerdy shit was kinda tough when you saw no one who looked like you, but that didn't mean I didn't relate with the struggles and stuff, but it got better as I felt represented, especially as i saw queer people. Based vid
Imagine thinking "Hispanics relate to Goku more than anything" being a good point for why representation doesn't matter.
Bro you know what I relate to even more than Goku? Any fucking hispanic character that has a little picture of Goku in the living room as if he was a religious figure, I relate to that shit too. I can demand both!
In defense of “Primos”: It’s a show about not feeling connected enough to your culture, which in its own right represents a subset of people that this specific thing does happen to. It’s about a girl who feels like she doesn’t fit in with the rest of her family because of a lack of cultural identity.
Representation is definitely important, i just hate when it's obvious that it's about an agenda and the character is otherwise hollow. Having characters that look like real people should've never been a political statement in the first place, but now it sometimes is. I don't know what the solution is, but i hope it gets figured out.
I'd also like to clarify that regardless of my own inclination towards skepticism, I'm not suggesting that anybody's creation shouldn't exist. Art exists for anyone, my personal opinion doesn't matter