Defenders are loved so much they will get you home even if broken then they conk out, its like there looking after you. (70 miles with a blown out prop U.J towing a 3.5tonne trailer got home and then died have to love it).
Hi Andrew, you should put up the uncut version of this interview! We love our Landy! And to think this clip was done 8 years ago and we still have our old girl and she has not given us one ounce of trouble
I've never owned a Defender, but I do own and drive a series III. 320 000 kms and counting. Bought it with 200 000 kms. Never had a reliability issue with it. No problems facing a toyota.
@TheBushcraftBoyz You make a good point. Any vehicle badly maintained will break... In Africa, Land Rover is no longer popular with NGOs or military as it once was. Why? I reckon it is because they do not have a good reputation for reliability and spares that used to be everywhere, no longer are. I owned four Land Rovers before turning to Toyota and have now owned four of them. They, like a LR will break if not looked after but they can take far more neglect before they do. Just my opinion.
Land rover are extremely reliable but like any vehicle they have their quirks. If you know what you are doing, mechanically speaking, these trucks are extremely reliable and will last forever. I have owned series land rovers, range rovers, and defenders. Land Rovers are the best, I shall never buy another car that isn't a land rover.
Trus story: no word of a lie. I bought a Defender last Saturday. It broke down on the way home. In the snow. I took I back, got a refund and yesterday I bought a Hilux with the money and 2k change to spare. Everything on the Hilux works.
No. It is a very characterful truck. But being somewhat trendy, some use it for commuting because the whiff of gearbox oil makes them feel as if they are on safari!
I don't get the Land Rover unreliable stuff. I live in the English countryside and it's awash with Defenders and Discovery's 3 and 4's. If they were that bad, nobody would buy them. It's not just England either, they are everywhere in Europe. Even the French buy them. If they are that bad, you wouldn't see them. I'm in the process of a buying a Disco 4; reviewers and owners love it! I'm just a bit perplexed by this expert (who is very good in my opinion). Anyone here agree with me?
I fully agree 0:17-1:02... I was almost born in a Series I (Tunisia) and grew up abroad S1, S2. Skipped S3. My own LR 110 is 1983 1st series built Left Hand Drive (VIN ..2AA..; ...1AA.. = very 1st Right HD), V8 + LT95 4speed. 1994 conversed to 200Tdi (genuine LR kit). Now it reads 537000 km on tacho. Full midlife upgrade 1998: completely apart & assembled with Improvements. Reliability: with good maintenance & enhancements: Improves! TECHNICAL Driver is required to pro-active avoid troubles..
I have a 200tdi defender with over 200.000 miles under its belt and is still on the same engine and axles. The gearbox did get rebuilt at about 170.000 miles. it gets serviced and maintaied when needed and has never let me down. Are work defender is a td5 with 130.000 miles and is still going strong despite being used to pull ships mooring ropes/wires along the key all its life.
My last Land Rover was a second hand 1980 stage one V8 L.W.B. ten seat that I bought in 1987. And once (way out bush) on that vehicle I had to crank start it when the alternator packed up. I would be reluctant to buy a Land Rover that I could not crank start. A crank handle overcomes three malfunctions, alternator, starter motor, battery and over 26 years I used the crank handle a few times on various old L.Rs. Very handy way out bush with no one else around. I have not owned a motor since 1990.... My first one was a 1957 L.W.B (custom hardtop) ex survey vehicle.
The Land Cruisers we prefer have the 1HZ engine. This means absolutely zero electronics of any kind. NOTHING. I think all Land Rovers since the TD5 have electronics. Which means they have ECUs. But it's not the ECUs that are often problem items on expeditions. It's other things like drive trains and gearboxes and electrics. I have owned four land Rovers and five Land Cruisers.
That claim was first quoted in the '60s. It's not true any more, but the LR fans tend to keep it alive. It's not a reliable vehicle by anyone's standards. Andrew
I have owned four Land Rovers. I have owned five Land Cruisers and two Mercedes Gs. Which ones needed the most looking after? Which ones needed more repairs and intensive maintenance after an expedition? The Land Rovers. All of them and by a very large margin. But then, this is just my experience.
personally I think the 75% issue is a myth, and if it is true it is because Land ROver lovers consider a Land Rover as worth fixing, not matter what. Their followers keep even the oldest vehicles running.
@NotARandomName Having owned and loved both, they are very similar. In the case you state, there could have been so many factors, the most obvious if which is driver skill and tyres and pressure. Off-road, there is no question that the Defender is superb, however, in very lumpy, hilly climbs many vehicles do better, in mud it's very good and on dunes they are under-powered and don't do as well as many. Toyota Land Cruiser is a better engineered and built vehicle and lasts. longer.
I miss my old series 3 Land Rover. Its in bit on my drive way and has been there for the past six years. My job keeps me away from home and stops me rebuilding it.
@gypo44 the 75% myth is because 3/4 of landrovers are still on the road because they never made it back home. and 120k is very poor compared to toyota and daihatsu where 400000 is acheivable with good maintenence.
(2) They are better off road, they are built with better materials. They're engines are not as powerful and economical as the japanese, but they are tough and easy to fix. 2.25 diesel and 300tdi are amazing engines. And they have superior handling when compared to Toyotas bj40 and 73 or daihatsu F50, who are dangerous in some ordinary situations and rust like hell. Don't get me wrong, I like toyotas and especially daihatsu taft, but LR is the best 4x4 (not the modern chelsea tractors though).
To be honest, i see more Land Rovers over here in the UK than i do Landcruisers. Even though there are plenty of horror stories about Landys, they seem to sell and be still very popular.
They're easy to work on though and tinkering is half the pleasure. I have both LC and defender. Defender is more fun and gets the job done. LC rusts and looks rough when knocked about.
@NotARandomName I had a G-Wagen in a soft, wet riverbed being followed by a Defender 90. The Defender got stuck so often it was embarrassing, while the G, with inferior mud tyres, went on and on... This means nothing! The Defender driver was very experienced but truly, didn't have clue! The 90 should have kept up with me in the G, no problem, but he couldn't. I have learnt: incidents like this can't be used to judge a vehicle's performance cause there are too many factors affecting performance.
I enjoyed the review! Nice to see one of the old V8's too. Although part of me respects the torquey simple diesels that are fitted exclusively these days, I have always loved the big petrol Defenders. In 99' I got the 110 Defender with the 2.8i M52 BMW inline Six Cylinder petrol which was and still is the fastest stock defender ever made (Which adds fantastic real world practicality for road use; this is the first landy you can actually do some proper overtaking in). I love that car!
A very good review, well presented, enjoyable to watch and (speaking as a Land Rover fanatic) it gets the appeal and the good points of the Defender across whilst still pointing out the downsides. It's interesting to see things from an African point of view, seeing that here in the UK Defenders, whilst not dominant, are still very common.
I think properly maintained LRs are the most reliable cars on the road and when there is no RAC so save you the basic design is your best friend. Thats the double edged sword though, the parts are so cheap, readily available and easy to fit that any diy mechanic can have a bash and thats the reliability issue. Anyowner who knows what they are doing knows LR are the best because they can go anywhere and be fixed anywhere. Long live LR.
The Land Rover Defender or the original Series is a remnant of the great British industrial era. Sad to imagine that its no more. The new one is still a huge question if it can match the old one.
@4xforum I think location is the defining point here. Each vehicles design works great in the location they were designed for and hence the part and prices go where the truck is thriving. So in this case reliability depends on what continent your on, Temperate zones I think LR is top but I think toyotas might have the subtropics - but I do think a bush repair is more acheivable on a landrover than say a land cruiser and as you said the passion behind LRs is hard to ignore.
sorry in advance for upsetting anyone but this chap goes on about the defender being un reliable but i believe that if you maintain them there fine just like anything, he said he doesnt drive them anymore because of reliability, he obviously didnt look after his as he cant even shut the bonnet without fucking something up so how can he even change oil or a filter etc! just saying.
I have never heard of the 1hz, the only Toyota we use are the 2.8td hilux and there bloody awful, I work for a company that supplies electronic control systems to remote oil plants and I have made the mistake of trying one before and it was crap broke down from alittle water getting in, I have had water to the top of the window screen in my landy and never any problems, and as for Toyotas being as easy to fix as landys i don't no what toyota that it but it ain't a hilux.
There are different notions of reliability. I think it would be fair to say that Land Rovers (I mean S1 to Defender) will rarely let you down due to a catastrophic sudden failure - they'll limp you home (and if necessary can be bodged) when something bad has gone wrong, but they do seem to require a lot of running maintenance, preventative fixes for less serious issue. This is an attraction for a certain type of person who enjoys that kind of tinkering in itself, but most people these days are not like that, and certainly the big commercial and aid organisations etc do not regard that "hobby factor" as a selling point :) I actually think it is very sad that Land Rover neglected the development of the vehicle for decades, relying on heritage and loyal customers to keep buying vehicles that had design and build problems that no modern buyer has expected to see for 30 odd years. With proper development they could have evolved it into a vehicle that still honours all the key land rover virtues - ladder chassis, solid axles, coils, boxy and adaptable body etc, but systematically addressed the engineering and build with a body built to modern tolerances, galv chassis, good seals, better ergonomics etc. They didn't, and Toyota ate their lunch, deservedly so. I often look at a Defender as an ex S2A owner and find myself thinking "they still haven't fixed that?! That was in my 2A and it was crap (but forgivable) then! Not 40 years later!". (I'm now a Land Cruiser owner :)
Statistics show that it is the owners of Defenders almost always own something else (everything from Fiesta to Ferrari) to drive when they want to do something that the Defender isn't good at. That would stop the love being spread too thin.
Most amazing thing about LR is the price... in 2012 2012 110 Td4 CSW = 27.000gbp 2007 110 Td5/Td4 CSW = 22.000gbp 2002 110 Td5 CSW = 17.000gbp 1997 110 300Tdi CSW = 12.000gbp 1992 110 200Tdi CSW = 7000gbp ...that gives only 1000gbp loss every year, there is no other car which maintains the value in same way as Land Rover Defender.
Hehe. The new 2012 ones I've tested still rolls quite a bit around corners, especially at the back. Maybe I will install stiffer shocks when the warranty on mine expires...
I talk too some people that was driving MC form norway too cape town. they had toyotas as folow cras for the motorbikes.But they used Defenders as folow cars for the toyotas. One defender towed a toyota over 900km though the desert. I think that says it all about the reliablety the land rovers have.
los carros son una cuestion de personalidad yo personalmente amo mi defender.. y antes de eso tenia un toyota y jamas ni nunca lo compararia.. es que el defender es de corazon duro y a decir verdad si lo siento inacabable.. jajaja mi papa tiene uno del 78 y no sale de el por nada
Well, in many countries, I think the reliability isn't the major issue. It's more to do with the pricetag of one, not to mention if any parts need replacing, they are more expensive and sometimes not as common as other 4WDs, such as Land Cruisers...
well , sorry to disturb but honestly in + countries around the world reliability is the most concerning issue > Nowonder we see defenders like plagues from south & central america trophical forest , africa & asia .
NATO don't use LRs, I think you should do some research before trying to comment on something you clearly no nothing about. NATO has thousands of Land Rovers mostly old troop carriers from the 80s but they do have some of the latter snatch and wolf Land Rovers. The Australian Army has over 10,000 Land Rover FFRs.
Is a Landcruiser fanboy. But I envy the cool style of the Land Rover. Imagine a car with LandCruiser 78 v8 engine, gearbox, axles and electrical system, in the super cool Land Rover body? That would be something:)
I don't know if you have anything to do with the reviews or the show, but Ill ask anyway. How about a review of the Toyota 70 series? (in any of it's presentations, short wheelbase, longwheelbase, 4 door, pick-up...)
About the last version of the Defender is quite sure that you must replace the clutch every 40/50kKM due to the flywheel and the strong angle used to adapt the trasmission to the Ford engine. I have not got a Defender but I am a Freelander owner. It has problem with IRD and viscous coupling (3k Euro to change them), I have been lucky and I changed it after 150kKM but they are badly designed and Land Rover does not do anything to help its customer.
los carros son una cuestión de personalidad yo personalmente amo mi defender.. y antes de eso tenia un toyota y jamas ni nunca lo compararía.. es que el defender es de corazón duro y a decir verdad si lo siento inacabable.. jajaja mi papa tiene uno del 78 y no sale de el por nada
i love my old Australian army land rover perentie Isuzu 3.9 go any place ,but she is a bit dusty and bloody noisy old truck built like a tea 20 tractor.
(1) I'm sorry, I do believe that you have experience with 4x4s, but how can you say that Series and defenders are not "reliable vehicle by anyone's standards"?! My series is bulletproof (with maintenance, of course), and so are the defenders. They've lost to toyota in Africa and Asia because toyota is a world giant and can provide an infrastructure of sales and parts worldwide. We've used LRs in Angola and Portugal and the only reason we've changed to toyotas in Angola was the parts availability
In spite of everything I am looking for a new Defender. (also if you consider that is not so easy to buy a toyota hdj70 and a hdj 100 1999 250kKM has more or less the same price of a Defender 2008 35kKM) ...I am saving the money for my first clutch replacement
Greetings from the USA ! ,splendid thorough review ! unfortunately they stopped selling the defender here back in 96 because it failed our safety and emissions standards . I have to ask , how would a jeep wrangler CRD or petrol fair in your demanding tests ? , It too has short and long wheel base versions like the defender and also employs a tough body on frame chassis , the reason why I ask because wranglers are very popular off road 4x4s in the states and seem to have a huge cult following .
Wranglers Destroy defenders off road. Remove the sway bars from both vehicles and you will see that the wranglers 4 link suspension totally outclasses land rovers front radius arms in every situation. Land rovers have good rear articulation but the front end is a huge detriment to its climbing ability on even remotely twisting terrain.
Land Rover reliability?, i have crossed desserts in Land Rovers and I tell you, I have NEVER seen a Toyota out there, you know why? because on a Landy if something goes wrong you can fix it with a roll of duck tape and some elbow grease, with a Toyota you need a full set of diagnostic equipment and more ECUs than a BMW.
Hey Andrew and writer, better know your facts! At 2:14, you said something about the Defender as, " but the vents are marvelous the only vehicle in the world wherein you can open the vents and get a direct draft from the bush (pause, for better effect) directly into the cab." How about the Willys CJ3A? Didn't Landy get its platform from the early Willys?
cars are a matter of personality I personally love my defense .. and before that had a toyota and never and never will compare .. is that the heart is hard to defend truth and if you feel endless .. lol my dad has a 78 and not for anything out of the
Which needs less preparation before a trip and which demand less of my time during a trip? Sorry, but as much as I love Landys, and always have done, I consider the Toyotas to be far and away more reliable. And I am confused... There are Land Cruisers all over the Sahara, Namib and Kalahari. The local tour companies in all these places prefer them. And i have worked on both... LRs are no easier to repair. True, when electronics are broken in either case, you are stuffed.
hangman161 Probably because the H1 was not available to the general public to buy. Sure, if you were mega rich bought surplus and took out the Mill Spec engine and replaced it with a Corvette motor. It also has portal axles which no Land Rover had. H2 nad H3 don't even count as they're just gussied up Suburbans.
Sorry to say but this dude is getting his palm greased by toyota. Funny how a review on a 11 year old car turns to a rival brands commercial. He's done a comparison between the defender and 70 series toyo. The defender in my opinion easily performed better. Did what it was designed to do. Have a look at his summary. Laughable. I have owned 3 toyos. and 2 land rovers. Never again a Toyota. And I DO drive offroad.
The transmission is very weak.Eveything brakes very easily,even with the factory tire dimensions.The engine is very thirsty and it is not what you call reliable.Electrics=nigtmare.Great suspension geometry,articulation.Truck chassis!!!!I'm now looking for something like a G or a patrol.Toyotas are great too,but in my coyntry i can find only the ifs models.
The Td5 were common rail with electronics.( Replying to previous comment.)Yeah . Now the closer figure to the truth is more like 73%. I wonder the real reason you switched to Toyota.
Nothing. Not a cent. And if you have a look at the comments, you will see that the Toyota fans think that land Rover paid me! I have owned both. Loved both. but the Toyota is better. Just my opinion.
Well, that the Land Rover brand is the worst in all the reliability index lists is quite estabilished. (Toyota is third after Honda and Suzuky, maybe it is a kind of Japanese magic or they are more able to build car) About 53% of the Land Rover have serious problems after the expiration of the warrenty. Range Rover (more or less 100.000 Euro) is the one of the worst car in all the realiability index list.
Reliability is my only concern when it comes to getting a Defender as well. Oh, and the shitty seating/steering position is a minor one also. That's just plain moronic. The newer Toyotas' main issue is their looks in my opinion. The older ones had a bit of that Defender styling about them and they still look great. The newer ones.. Not so much. It's been a problem for some years now and it just seems to get worse and worse. The 2015 Land Cruiser is fucking ugly. There's nothing "rough and tough" about its looks at all. It's a soccer mom car without any kind of character. :(
Respect ! but you are talking about ''dust proof'' I'm talking about ''Mud'' thats why you cant even compare with Defender and Toyota, sorry... '' One Life Live It '' with Dust & Mud...
Not hardly... a Toyota is about 100X more reliable and better built/tougher period, end of story. LR owners have selective memory and always talk about how easy they are to work on... My 22RE Hilux is plenty easy to work on, but I really never have to do anything other then routine fluid changes and maint. The Drive trains/chassis of Toyotas are MUCH heavier Duty then all but a few LR's and those have chassis rot all the time (galvanic reaction)
you're kidding me, you brits/south Africans like the defender over the land cruiser? Oh yeah that's right, a Land Rover defender doesn't leak oil it marks its territory! ROFLMAO!
Then you're blind or your lying... Anywhere there's 4Wheeling/Overlanding, Toyota is HEAVILY represented. For the simple fact that they're the most reliable, most capable trucks out there (alng with the G-Wagen). Go to the Himilayas: Toyota LC's everywhere. Australia (where I lived for many years) LC-70's are THE truck to have there (hardly any LR's) Go to Africa. MOSTLY 70-series troupys. There's a reason NATO uses the 70-ser. and not LR's. They're vastly more reliable/tougher.
So why are the new ones pathetic...modern crap? Are you talking about the velour effect roof lining fitted to the later XS models? Unnecessary l agree but it's still a Defender, hardly "pathetic" because of that....you can still drive it to Cape Town.
lt's what they said about the TD5 version when it came out back in 1998. "....too complicated, too many electronics, more to go wrong...." Now it's widely regarded as the best one to get. l am not sold on the tdci l prefer my TD5. But the tdci retains all the capability of earlier versions.
Lotusdriver Electronics and wet means zero drive and a dead landie.The new 90 we got for the farm was the worst land rover i had ever driven to the point i refused to drive it again.I could not fit in it with the door cards fitted and my head hit the stupid roof lining.never again.We also fitted a new 300 series engine to a old model land rover and one wet day it drove through a puddle on the public road and the rods bent.
I've been to a fair few safari camps in Botswana/Zambia recently, and many have recently switched to Land Rovers when they've had land cruisers for years. They say that toyota parts prices are too expensive and they too often have to be sent off to be fixed if they break down. They can also more easily modify them to suit safari game drives. Its not as clear cut as you make out.
Land Rover is a joke when speaking of reliability. We bought a 2002 Toyota Forerunner and turned it in on another Toyota in 2013. 11 years with NO problems. Do you realize how nice life is when your vehicle gets u from A to Z all the time. "we can fix it"? No thanks I'll always choose RELIABILITY!
yes, i know how reliable LCs are, we've had a few in the family and theyre great cars. But generally if my 110 breaks then i can fix it with a £10/20 part that has been around on defenders for years and is very easy DIY. And it does say something that, as i said, the camp i visited in Botswana used to run a fleet of 20+ 76 series land cruisers but switched to defenders because they were costing too much to repair because they generally needed sending away. The defenders they just keep in a large selection of seals and oils etc and thats all they need. (Regular wading day in, day out apparently takes its toll on the diff and hub seals because of the heat of the day and the cold of the water they get dunked into).
Defenders are loved so much they will get you home even if broken then they conk out, its like there looking after you. (70 miles with a blown out prop U.J towing a 3.5tonne trailer got home and then died have to love it).
Hi Andrew, you should put up the uncut version of this interview! We love our Landy!
And to think this clip was done 8 years ago and we still have our old girl and she has not given us one ounce of trouble
I've never owned a Defender, but I do own and drive a series III. 320 000 kms and counting. Bought it with 200 000 kms. Never had a reliability issue with it. No problems facing a toyota.
@TheBushcraftBoyz You make a good point. Any vehicle badly maintained will break... In Africa, Land Rover is no longer popular with NGOs or military as it once was. Why? I reckon it is because they do not have a good reputation for reliability and spares that used to be everywhere, no longer are. I owned four Land Rovers before turning to Toyota and have now owned four of them. They, like a LR will break if not looked after but they can take far more neglect before they do. Just my opinion.
Land rover are extremely reliable but like any vehicle they have their quirks. If you know what you are doing, mechanically speaking, these trucks are extremely reliable and will last forever. I have owned series land rovers, range rovers, and defenders. Land Rovers are the best, I shall never buy another car that isn't a land rover.
This comment hasn't aged well, has it? I bet you're not considering any new Land Rover products?
Cheers
@@Land_Cruiser_40 land rover old was still unreliable uk best car bring a 1977 Toyota fj40 to uk and that will change
Trus story: no word of a lie. I bought a Defender last Saturday. It broke down on the way home. In the snow. I took I back, got a refund and yesterday I bought a Hilux with the money and 2k change to spare. Everything on the Hilux works.
No. It is a very characterful truck. But being somewhat trendy, some use it for commuting because the whiff of gearbox oil makes them feel as if they are on safari!
I don't get the Land Rover unreliable stuff. I live in the English countryside and it's awash with Defenders and Discovery's 3 and 4's. If they were that bad, nobody would buy them.
It's not just England either, they are everywhere in Europe. Even the French buy them. If they are that bad, you wouldn't see them. I'm in the process of a buying a Disco 4; reviewers and owners love it!
I'm just a bit perplexed by this expert (who is very good in my opinion). Anyone here agree with me?
I fully agree 0:17-1:02... I was almost born in a Series I (Tunisia) and grew up abroad S1, S2. Skipped S3. My own LR 110 is 1983 1st series built Left Hand Drive (VIN ..2AA..; ...1AA.. = very 1st Right HD), V8 + LT95 4speed. 1994 conversed to 200Tdi (genuine LR kit). Now it reads 537000 km on tacho. Full midlife upgrade 1998: completely apart & assembled with Improvements. Reliability: with good maintenance & enhancements: Improves! TECHNICAL Driver is required to pro-active avoid troubles..
Reliability isn't that bad. I once had a secondhand one with 300k miles on the clock, and it only broke down on me once in the 8 years I had it
I have a 200tdi defender with over 200.000
miles under its belt and is still on the same engine and axles.
The gearbox did get rebuilt at about 170.000 miles.
it gets serviced and maintaied when needed and has never let me down.
Are work defender is a td5 with 130.000 miles and is still going strong despite being used to pull ships mooring ropes/wires along the key all its life.
My last Land Rover was a second hand 1980 stage one V8 L.W.B. ten seat that I bought in 1987. And once (way out bush) on that vehicle I had to crank start it when the alternator packed up. I would be reluctant to buy a Land Rover that I could not crank start. A crank handle overcomes three malfunctions, alternator, starter motor, battery and over 26 years I used the crank handle a few times on various old L.Rs. Very handy way out bush with no one else around. I have not owned a motor since 1990.... My first one was a 1957 L.W.B (custom hardtop) ex survey vehicle.
But he drove one for 8 years in harsh conditions so they can't be all that bad..
@gp1585 That's because they are British, and quite a bit cheaper than Land Cruisers, and some (many) may say, Land Cruisers have no character.
The Land Cruisers we prefer have the 1HZ engine. This means absolutely zero electronics of any kind. NOTHING. I think all Land Rovers since the TD5 have electronics. Which means they have ECUs. But it's not the ECUs that are often problem items on expeditions. It's other things like drive trains and gearboxes and electrics. I have owned four land Rovers and five Land Cruisers.
That claim was first quoted in the '60s. It's not true any more, but the LR fans tend to keep it alive. It's not a reliable vehicle by anyone's standards. Andrew
I have owned four Land Rovers. I have owned five Land Cruisers and two Mercedes Gs. Which ones needed the most looking after? Which ones needed more repairs and intensive maintenance after an expedition? The Land Rovers. All of them and by a very large margin. But then, this is just my experience.
personally I think the 75% issue is a myth, and if it is true it is because Land ROver lovers consider a Land Rover as worth fixing, not matter what. Their followers keep even the oldest vehicles running.
@NotARandomName Having owned and loved both, they are very similar. In the case you state, there could have been so many factors, the most obvious if which is driver skill and tyres and pressure. Off-road, there is no question that the Defender is superb, however, in very lumpy, hilly climbs many vehicles do better, in mud it's very good and on dunes they are under-powered and don't do as well as many. Toyota Land Cruiser is a better engineered and built vehicle and lasts. longer.
I miss my old series 3 Land Rover. Its in bit on my drive way and has been there for the past six years. My job keeps me away from home and stops me rebuilding it.
@gypo44
the 75% myth is because 3/4 of landrovers are still on the road because they never made it back home.
and 120k is very poor compared to toyota and daihatsu where 400000 is acheivable with good maintenence.
Looks like a tough offroad vehicle for true offroaders, folks who dont mind working on their vehicles and modifying them.
(2) They are better off road, they are built with better materials. They're engines are not as powerful and economical as the japanese, but they are tough and easy to fix. 2.25 diesel and 300tdi are amazing engines. And they have superior handling when compared to Toyotas bj40 and 73 or daihatsu F50, who are dangerous in some ordinary situations and rust like hell. Don't get me wrong, I like toyotas and especially daihatsu taft, but LR is the best 4x4 (not the modern chelsea tractors though).
Awesome vehicle, I'd never drive anything else. Love that V8 rumble too!
To be honest, i see more Land Rovers over here in the UK than i do Landcruisers. Even though there are plenty of horror stories about Landys, they seem to sell and be still very popular.
They're easy to work on though and tinkering is half the pleasure. I have both LC and defender. Defender is more fun and gets the job done. LC rusts and looks rough when knocked about.
@NotARandomName I had a G-Wagen in a soft, wet riverbed being followed by a Defender 90. The Defender got stuck so often it was embarrassing, while the G, with inferior mud tyres, went on and on... This means nothing! The Defender driver was very experienced but truly, didn't have clue! The 90 should have kept up with me in the G, no problem, but he couldn't. I have learnt: incidents like this can't be used to judge a vehicle's performance cause there are too many factors affecting performance.
I enjoyed the review! Nice to see one of the old V8's too. Although part of me respects the torquey simple diesels that are fitted exclusively these days, I have always loved the big petrol Defenders. In 99' I got the 110 Defender with the 2.8i M52 BMW inline Six Cylinder petrol which was and still is the fastest stock defender ever made (Which adds fantastic real world practicality for road use; this is the first landy you can actually do some proper overtaking in). I love that car!
A very good review, well presented, enjoyable to watch and (speaking as a Land Rover fanatic) it gets the appeal and the good points of the Defender across whilst still pointing out the downsides. It's interesting to see things from an African point of view, seeing that here in the UK Defenders, whilst not dominant, are still very common.
I think properly maintained LRs are the most reliable cars on the road and when there is no RAC so save you the basic design is your best friend. Thats the double edged sword though, the parts are so cheap, readily available and easy to fit that any diy mechanic can have a bash and thats the reliability issue. Anyowner who knows what they are doing knows LR are the best because they can go anywhere and be fixed anywhere. Long live LR.
The Land Rover Defender or the original Series is a remnant of the great British industrial era. Sad to imagine that its no more. The new one is still a huge question if it can match the old one.
@4xforum I think location is the defining point here. Each vehicles design works great in the location they were designed for and hence the part and prices go where the truck is thriving. So in this case reliability depends on what continent your on, Temperate zones I think LR is top but I think toyotas might have the subtropics - but I do think a bush repair is more acheivable on a landrover than say a land cruiser and as you said the passion behind LRs is hard to ignore.
sorry in advance for upsetting anyone but this chap goes on about the defender being un reliable but i believe that if you maintain them there fine just like anything, he said he doesnt drive them anymore because of reliability, he obviously didnt look after his as he cant even shut the bonnet without fucking something up so how can he even change oil or a filter etc! just saying.
I have never heard of the 1hz, the only Toyota we use are the 2.8td hilux and there bloody awful, I work for a company that supplies electronic control systems to remote oil plants and I have made the mistake of trying one before and it was crap broke down from alittle water getting in, I have had water to the top of the window screen in my landy and never any problems, and as for Toyotas being as easy to fix as landys i don't no what toyota that it but it ain't a hilux.
There are different notions of reliability. I think it would be fair to say that Land Rovers (I mean S1 to Defender) will rarely let you down due to a catastrophic sudden failure - they'll limp you home (and if necessary can be bodged) when something bad has gone wrong, but they do seem to require a lot of running maintenance, preventative fixes for less serious issue. This is an attraction for a certain type of person who enjoys that kind of tinkering in itself, but most people these days are not like that, and certainly the big commercial and aid organisations etc do not regard that "hobby factor" as a selling point :) I actually think it is very sad that Land Rover neglected the development of the vehicle for decades, relying on heritage and loyal customers to keep buying vehicles that had design and build problems that no modern buyer has expected to see for 30 odd years. With proper development they could have evolved it into a vehicle that still honours all the key land rover virtues - ladder chassis, solid axles, coils, boxy and adaptable body etc, but systematically addressed the engineering and build with a body built to modern tolerances, galv chassis, good seals, better ergonomics etc. They didn't, and Toyota ate their lunch, deservedly so. I often look at a Defender as an ex S2A owner and find myself thinking "they still haven't fixed that?! That was in my 2A and it was crap (but forgivable) then! Not 40 years later!". (I'm now a Land Cruiser owner :)
I like to own things which have personality and the Defender has buckets of it, they are beautiful vehicles that will go anywhere. I
Statistics show that it is the owners of Defenders almost always own something else (everything from Fiesta to Ferrari) to drive when they want to do something that the Defender isn't good at. That would stop the love being spread too thin.
Most amazing thing about LR is the price... in 2012
2012 110 Td4 CSW = 27.000gbp
2007 110 Td5/Td4 CSW = 22.000gbp
2002 110 Td5 CSW = 17.000gbp
1997 110 300Tdi CSW = 12.000gbp
1992 110 200Tdi CSW = 7000gbp
...that gives only 1000gbp loss every year, there is no other car which maintains the value in same way as Land Rover Defender.
Hehe. The new 2012 ones I've tested still rolls quite a bit around corners, especially at the back. Maybe I will install stiffer shocks when the warranty on mine expires...
I talk too some people that was driving MC form norway too cape town. they had toyotas as folow cras for the motorbikes.But they used Defenders as folow cars for the toyotas. One defender towed a toyota over 900km though the desert. I think that says it all about the reliablety the land rovers have.
I LOVE MY LAND ROVER SO MUCH
What is that Orange triangle og blue background?
It looks like the international civil protection sign, but in reverse?
"Civil destruction"?
The last words say it all !
los carros son una cuestion de personalidad yo personalmente amo mi defender.. y antes de eso tenia un toyota y jamas ni nunca lo compararia.. es que el defender es de corazon duro y a decir verdad si lo siento inacabable.. jajaja mi papa tiene uno del 78 y no sale de el por nada
Well, in many countries, I think the reliability isn't the major issue. It's more to do with the pricetag of one, not to mention if any parts need replacing, they are more expensive and sometimes not as common as other 4WDs, such as Land Cruisers...
well , sorry to disturb but honestly in + countries around the world reliability is the most concerning issue > Nowonder we see defenders like plagues from south & central america trophical forest , africa & asia .
NATO don't use LRs, I think you should do some research before trying to comment on something you clearly no nothing about. NATO has thousands of Land Rovers mostly old troop carriers from the 80s but they do have some of the latter snatch and wolf Land Rovers. The Australian Army has over 10,000 Land Rover FFRs.
Is a Landcruiser fanboy. But I envy the cool style of the Land Rover. Imagine a car with LandCruiser 78 v8 engine, gearbox, axles and electrical system, in the super cool Land Rover body? That would be something:)
I don't know if you have anything to do with the reviews or the show, but Ill ask anyway. How about a review of the Toyota 70 series? (in any of it's presentations, short wheelbase, longwheelbase, 4 door, pick-up...)
thank you!
About the last version of the Defender is quite sure that you must replace the clutch every 40/50kKM due to the flywheel and the strong angle used to adapt the trasmission to the Ford engine. I have not got a Defender but I am a Freelander owner. It has problem with IRD and viscous coupling (3k Euro to change them), I have been lucky and I changed it after 150kKM but they are badly designed and Land Rover does not do anything to help its customer.
los carros son una cuestión de personalidad yo personalmente amo mi defender.. y antes de eso tenia un toyota y jamas ni nunca lo compararía.. es que el defender es de corazón duro y a decir verdad si lo siento inacabable.. jajaja mi papa tiene uno del 78 y no sale de el por nada
@2:16...lol...."get a breeze from the bush". Who wants that I ask? Bush is usually a bit ripe after camping.
i love my old Australian army land rover perentie Isuzu 3.9 go any place ,but she is a bit dusty and bloody noisy old truck built like a tea 20 tractor.
(1) I'm sorry, I do believe that you have experience with 4x4s, but how can you say that Series and defenders are not "reliable vehicle by anyone's standards"?! My series is bulletproof (with maintenance, of course), and so are the defenders. They've lost to toyota in Africa and Asia because toyota is a world giant and can provide an infrastructure of sales and parts worldwide. We've used LRs in Angola and Portugal and the only reason we've changed to toyotas in Angola was the parts availability
In spite of everything I am looking for a new Defender. (also if you consider that is not so easy to buy a toyota hdj70 and a hdj 100 1999 250kKM has more or less the same price of a Defender 2008 35kKM)
...I am saving the money for my first clutch replacement
Greetings from the USA ! ,splendid thorough review ! unfortunately they stopped selling the defender here back in 96 because it failed our safety and emissions standards . I have to ask , how would a jeep wrangler CRD or petrol fair in your demanding tests ? , It too has short and long wheel base versions like the defender and also employs a tough body on frame chassis , the reason why I ask because wranglers are very popular off road 4x4s in the states and seem to have a huge cult following .
Wranglers Destroy defenders off road. Remove the sway bars from both vehicles and you will see that the wranglers 4 link suspension totally outclasses land rovers front radius arms in every situation. Land rovers have good rear articulation but the front end is a huge detriment to its climbing ability on even remotely twisting terrain.
JKmanglerCRD Complete nonsense wake up.
to be honest mate, Any vehicle is un reliable if it isn't looked after, if looked after any vehicle will run as long as you want
Well Citroen 2CV has a went similar to this....so not quite the only car in the world
Land Rover reliability?, i have crossed desserts in Land Rovers and I tell you, I have NEVER seen a Toyota out there, you know why? because on a Landy if something goes wrong you can fix it with a roll of duck tape and some elbow grease, with a Toyota you need a full set of diagnostic equipment and more ECUs than a BMW.
Hey Andrew and writer, better know your facts! At 2:14, you said something about the Defender as, " but the vents are marvelous the only vehicle in the world wherein you can open the vents and get a direct draft from the bush (pause, for better effect) directly into the cab." How about the Willys CJ3A? Didn't Landy get its platform from the early Willys?
cars are a matter of personality I personally love my defense .. and before that had a toyota and never and never will compare .. is that the heart is hard to defend truth and if you feel endless .. lol my dad has a 78 and not for anything out of the
He likes saying that their unreliable but not why.
Which needs less preparation before a trip and which demand less of my time during a trip? Sorry, but as much as I love Landys, and always have done, I consider the Toyotas to be far and away more reliable. And I am confused... There are Land Cruisers all over the Sahara, Namib and Kalahari. The local tour companies in all these places prefer them. And i have worked on both... LRs are no easier to repair. True, when electronics are broken in either case, you are stuffed.
isn't it funny how hummer never even enters into these debates?
hangman161 Probably because the H1 was not available to the general public to buy. Sure, if you were mega rich bought surplus and took out the Mill Spec engine and replaced it with a Corvette motor. It also has portal axles which no Land Rover had. H2 nad H3 don't even count as they're just gussied up Suburbans.
+hangman161 the H1 is too big for anywhere other than deserts. Shame, because they're great fun to drive
Jordan Bell and there not even that good in the desert
G wagen for life!!!
Are the people in the video south african?
@Kahur2007
a LOT of TLC mate, only way.... and stay away from the sea
Cause the rest made it home ;)
6:08 - 6:15 !! "one life live it
Sorry to say but this dude is getting his palm greased by toyota. Funny how a review on a 11 year old car turns to a rival brands commercial. He's done a comparison between the defender and 70 series toyo. The defender in my opinion easily performed better. Did what it was designed to do. Have a look at his summary. Laughable. I have owned 3 toyos. and 2 land rovers. Never again a Toyota. And I DO drive offroad.
The transmission is very weak.Eveything brakes very easily,even with the factory tire dimensions.The engine is very thirsty and it is not what you call reliable.Electrics=nigtmare.Great suspension geometry,articulation.Truck chassis!!!!I'm now looking for something like a G or a patrol.Toyotas are great too,but in my coyntry i can find only the ifs models.
Toyota forever
How much money did Toyota company pay you to say that ? Camooon tell us !
How often does Toyota give you a free Land cruiser?!!!!
Is that a serious question?
The Td5 were common rail with electronics.( Replying to previous comment.)Yeah . Now the closer figure to the truth is more like 73%. I wonder the real reason you switched to Toyota.
Nothing. Not a cent. And if you have a look at the comments, you will see that the Toyota fans think that land Rover paid me! I have owned both. Loved both. but the Toyota is better. Just my opinion.
Well, that the Land Rover brand is the worst in all the reliability index lists is quite estabilished. (Toyota is third after Honda and Suzuky, maybe it is a kind of Japanese magic or they are more able to build car) About 53% of the Land Rover have serious problems after the expiration of the warrenty. Range Rover (more or less 100.000 Euro) is the one of the worst car in all the realiability index list.
im the guy who never dreams XD
Reliability is my only concern when it comes to getting a Defender as well. Oh, and the shitty seating/steering position is a minor one also. That's just plain moronic.
The newer Toyotas' main issue is their looks in my opinion. The older ones had a bit of that Defender styling about them and they still look great. The newer ones.. Not so much. It's been a problem for some years now and it just seems to get worse and worse. The 2015 Land Cruiser is fucking ugly. There's nothing "rough and tough" about its looks at all. It's a soccer mom car without any kind of character. :(
+Gnawer Shreth In Australia, they still do the 70-series land cruiser, in production since the 80s
Respect ! but you are talking about ''dust proof'' I'm talking about ''Mud'' thats why you cant even compare with Defender and Toyota, sorry... '' One Life Live It '' with Dust & Mud...
@ syncmaster710n14 hahahaha! too bad you didn't measure who you're talking to. Study your facts first!
Not hardly... a Toyota is about 100X more reliable and better built/tougher period, end of story. LR owners have selective memory and always talk about how easy they are to work on... My 22RE Hilux is plenty easy to work on, but I really never have to do anything other then routine fluid changes and maint. The Drive trains/chassis of Toyotas are MUCH heavier Duty then all but a few LR's and those have chassis rot all the time (galvanic reaction)
ok than iv had 2 (hi lux) and iv been over 600k in them and not put spaner to them. One Life under it. o so sorry One Life Live It.
you're kidding me, you brits/south Africans like the defender over the land cruiser? Oh yeah that's right, a Land Rover defender doesn't leak oil it marks its territory! ROFLMAO!
Then you're blind or your lying... Anywhere there's 4Wheeling/Overlanding, Toyota is HEAVILY represented. For the simple fact that they're the most reliable, most capable trucks out there (alng with the G-Wagen). Go to the Himilayas: Toyota LC's everywhere. Australia (where I lived for many years) LC-70's are THE truck to have there (hardly any LR's) Go to Africa. MOSTLY 70-series troupys. There's a reason NATO uses the 70-ser. and not LR's. They're vastly more reliable/tougher.
The newer defenders with stupid roof linings and door cards are pathetic and a proper piece of shite modern crap.
What a stupid comment. You've clearly never owned one.
Lotusdriver Built and owned many and my mate did custom landies so do one.
So why are the new ones pathetic...modern crap? Are you talking about the velour effect roof lining fitted to the later XS models?
Unnecessary l agree but it's still a Defender, hardly "pathetic" because of that....you can still drive it to Cape Town.
lt's what they said about the TD5 version when it came out back in 1998. "....too complicated, too many electronics, more to go wrong...."
Now it's widely regarded as the best one to get.
l am not sold on the tdci l prefer my TD5.
But the tdci retains all the capability of earlier versions.
Lotusdriver Electronics and wet means zero drive and a dead landie.The new 90 we got for the farm was the worst land rover i had ever driven to the point i refused to drive it again.I could not fit in it with the door cards fitted and my head hit the stupid roof lining.never again.We also fitted a new 300 series engine to a old model land rover and one wet day it drove through a puddle on the public road and the rods bent.
asd
lol, "we can fix it"! No thanks! I'll choose RELIABILITY way over your cultish fantasies!
I've been to a fair few safari camps in Botswana/Zambia recently, and many have recently switched to Land Rovers when they've had land cruisers for years. They say that toyota parts prices are too expensive and they too often have to be sent off to be fixed if they break down. They can also more easily modify them to suit safari game drives. Its not as clear cut as you make out.
Land Rover is a joke when speaking of reliability. We bought a 2002 Toyota Forerunner and turned it in on another Toyota in 2013. 11 years with NO problems. Do you realize how nice life is when your vehicle gets u from A to Z all the time. "we can fix it"? No thanks I'll always choose RELIABILITY!
Oh one more thing. . . Toyota parts are expensive? Land Rover parts are cheap? lol
yes, i know how reliable LCs are, we've had a few in the family and theyre great cars. But generally if my 110 breaks then i can fix it with a £10/20 part that has been around on defenders for years and is very easy DIY. And it does say something that, as i said, the camp i visited in Botswana used to run a fleet of 20+ 76 series land cruisers but switched to defenders because they were costing too much to repair because they generally needed sending away. The defenders they just keep in a large selection of seals and oils etc and thats all they need. (Regular wading day in, day out apparently takes its toll on the diff and hub seals because of the heat of the day and the cold of the water they get dunked into).