This video expresses what Ive been thinking for a long time. A shocking number of heros are fundamentally badly designed. Idk hoe Blizz could ever dig themselves out of this pit
@StormcrowProductions You're gunna love this: I think Widow is fine. Now, let me cook. Widow is a Mechanically demanding character, and has received some of the most heavy nerfs to any sniper Character in the game. She has the longest Cooldown of any DPS Hitscan, and has already had her health nerfed. However, she can dominate the game given the player who wields her. Now that the game has gotten MUCH faster, with Soujourn getting 6 second slides, and your biggest fear being enemy supports who have a lot more movement than you do, and dive tanks, which D. Va keeps getting Micro-buffed every patch. If D. Va wants you dead, she will kill you. Unless the Devs want Widow to be Immobile to have counterplay, I'd argue for 2 critical buffs. 1. Buff Widow's health back to 200. Dive, even with just 1 tank, STOMPS Widow. She relied on peel from a second tank in case she got in a sticky situation. With that 2nd tank gone, she's HELPLESS. Give Widow her 200HP back, to get maybe that extra 1-2 seconds she needs to get back to her team. 2. Buff Grapple Cooldown, PLEASE. BOTH of Reaper's movement Cooldowns are faster than Widow. Soujourn gets 2 slides in that time, Ashe is faster, and Hanzo gets what, 2, 3 Lunges? The game has gotten MEGA fast over the years, Widow needs something to catch up to the Mobility creep. Last time Grapple Hook was touched was a year or 2 BEFORE Overwatch 2. It's gotta get fixed. I'd be acceptable with 10 seconds but if I had the reigns, go down to 8. Soujourn still outclasses her, but she feels like she at least has it when she gets dived so she can get away.
Maybe not a hot take but I’m a little surprised by your thoughts on Zen. The Zen mini-rework is one of my favorite changes they’ve made (granted, I’m definitely biased myself as a tank main-Doom and JQ), and sure, they could make it less effective on tanks, but what they did introduces both active counterplay and greater forethought in how discord is actually used. If it were just flat out less effective on the tank, it does introduce a new decision for Zen, but that decision is entirely one-sided-if they want to put it on a specific target, be it the tank or someone else, that player is still at the mercy of that Zen’s decision without a method of counterplaying the discord orb. Now, when I fight a good Zen, especially one that is really good at holding onto discord for hard commits, if I’m tilted I still want to tear my hair out, but if I’m in a better headspace I enjoy trying to break down how exactly to try to take advantage of the Zen saving discord on me, or how to commit hard enough to get discorded but soft enough to not die for it. And when I play Zen, I enjoy the extra thought that goes into placing discord, because now it’s an actual commitment to discord someone. Absolutely right on Ana though. I think the wake-up animation time for sleep should be a tad shorter-it can get a bit ridiculous how quickly you can explode if you get slept, and it probably shouldn’t be a death sentence regardless of health/cooldowns to entire tanks as often as it is (yes, that’s a positioning thing to an extent, but it’s too punishing right now imo). But her kit feels awesome to use, and she has healthy levels of counterplay, as her against aggressors as well as against her. Anti feels bad in part because of inflated damage numbers which have also been paired with inflated healing numbers to compensate, such that the contrast between normal survivability and anti’d survivability is too stark, but that’s not justification to modify anti to me, especially when she fits into an offensive utility design space that has been unfortunately lacking from newer support designs whose utility is overwhelmingly defensive. Sombra’s problem isn’t hack, it’s invis. Hack is extremely powerful against certain characters but it lacks counterplay because you can’t just avoid her with any level of consistency, and in fact, any version of her with perma-invis that is balanced in terms of *power level* is still going to have incredibly polarizing matchups, because she gets to engage entirely on her terms without any semblance of counterplay. Also, warm take: do whatever you want to suzu, but don’t touch swift step beyond MAYBE putting an extra second on the cooldown at most. It’s a huge huge part of what makes Kiri fun and dynamic and the pain points it creates for her opponents are, in my opinion, overexaggerated by a lot of people who could probably stand to better track cooldowns and better understand the value and necessity of forcing CDs (and doing so before trying to make any big flashy plays).
I think the worst part about Pharah is that some characters just can't interact with her. Even with a bad matchup, you can still interact with the enemy. If you're a Reaper, you don't get to play against Pharah.
Like, Echo HAS to touch the ground or stall in interesting areas, and she’s often more effective close range. Pharah rarely needs to risk herself except by hitscan DPS
And more to the point, if there’s a Mercy, who’s movement is fairly balanced, tethered to the Pharah, her movement is incredibly erratic, like a double pendulum, and her GA cooldown, which is balanced on the ground, is just continually abused to fly back to Pharah so neither of them touch the ground. What’s worse is higher ranks know how to use the cover of tall buildings, so sometimes you don’t even see the Mercy at any angle while you only manage chip damage on Pharah that gets healed bc the beam will literally NEVER disconnect. The only time it feels like there’s a HARD counter in the game. Unfun.
the worst part is, if her partner is a tracer, u are looking up while tracer deletes you from the side. it's not that we can't aim, it's that we can't afford to look up because the flank pressure is immense enough to cause an L
The biggest problem with this is when it extends to her own team. Like you can always tweak certain hero a bit so they can interact with a flying hero, and there's rarely a situation in game where absolutely no hero can threaten the Pharah. The problem with Pharah is that beside mercy, not support hero can reliably keep her alive, and some like Bap, moira and Lucio straight up can't interact with her, or at least not without compromising either their role or the Pharah's role. Pharah doesn't need a mercy for damage amp as she already deals a lot of damage, but really needs something to keep her alive. And so as mercy is the only hero that can unable a Pharah to focus on her job, Pharah is massively underpowered without a mercy, and if they want to make Pharah viable without mercy she becomes completely broken with one. I think that the only way to solve that issue is to give Pharah a form of self heal or at least more survivability but diminish how threatening she is to compensate. Therefore Mercy becomes way less necessary for Pharah to get value, but adding a mercy doesn't improve Pharah as much. Of course mercy has her own set of problems, personally I think that damage amp should go to another hero to give her more of a toned Kitsune rush effect (more reactable for the enemy team, feels more impactful for the person being pocketed and suits mercy's character better). But that's getting away from the subject.
I think a lot of people forget that Lucio got a rework in early OW1 and I have to say that's probably the best rework that's been done to a character with how fair and admirable of a support character he is now.
@@wisp9856 His aura was 3x wider meaning you basically got free value for existing, but he had less lethality and less wallriding potential. I think amp was also a lot stronger.
The unique and fun design of Wrecking Ball is literally what has led me to invest hundreds of hours into Overwatch 1 and 2. Sure, he needs some balancing and some tweaks, but his design is one of the most unique and fun experiences I’ve had in not just Overwatch but all of gaming
Brig is very interesting in her current state because on one hand she has problematic aspects in some of her abilities, but on the other hand she is a prime example of good hero design. She has all low cool-down abilities that in isolation are not overpowered (with the exception of her ult), she has no immortality or get-out-of-jail-free cards, she has SO many potential uses for her Shield (the ability that provides her with all her mobility and protection, and is critical to the execution of her burst damage combo), she can do burst damage but it requires her to use all her CDs (including her escape ability), she is one of the only heroes in the game that simultaneously feels good to play with / against and still PERFECTLY fits her character lore in the way that she plays (she was advertised as the “bodyguard “ hero), and she can counter aggression from divers but only by manually denying them by landing her abilities directly on them at the right time (if she misses she is one of the easiest targets for a diver to kill). However, she does have some problems as Spilo mentioned. Rally changes were very bad. Brig did not need any buffs. The changes were literally straight up buffs with no compensation, and it is currently a bit too good and easy to use. Personally, I don’t find the burst armour pack change very bad. 25hp burst is virtually unnoticeable compared to the absurd burst heals Bap and Kiriko can provide with their abilities, and I think it is fair with how high the general damage output has become as of recent (eg. Junkrat, Pharah, buffed tracer, or damage boosted hitscan heroes). Overall, I think Brig has an amazing flow to her kit, easily one of the best of any heroes in the game. She is is a hero that can have a lot of impact on a game, but only if the person playing her is actually good. I also like how she does not hard-counter any heroes and is also not hard-countered BY any. Definitely has some imperfections in her design, but the positives FAR outweigh the negatives.
Rally stun imo is good. In theory, it is one of the best counters to NanoBlade. Bash, Stun + sleep. Had this happen a few times in my games. And it was great
@@nurikkulanbaev3628 Rally rework was a buff to Brig's boring styles of play and a nerf to her more proactive, aggressive styles of play. For me, it's a pretty big net nerf that I personally didn't enjoy. I use it, but I'd rather have the faster movement and better self-sustain back.
@@nurikkulanbaev3628Honestly I think the stun is fine. I don’t like how large her shield is though. I feel like the perfect balance would be her old ult but just keep the stun. Forget all the barrier enhancements and armour she gains.
@@braxbro6674I understand that you don’t enjoy using it, but I promise you it is not a nerf. Rally quickly became a top tier ult after the changes. Sure she may not be as tanky over time, but if you take advantage of the 750 hp shield you will find she is even more unkillable than she used to be with her old ult. People are far too aggressive with her new ult and forget to use her shield and they end up feeding when they really shouldn’t.
@@GetOffGenji Keep the stun and shield refresh, the shield refresh is also nice and I think feels good for Brig without feeling bad for the opponent. And then if she has movespeed she doesn't need the Sigma shield.
About Kiriko's winrate. I think it's because of her playstyle. The optimal playstyle for Kiriko is to also take off angles and flanking since her kit enables her aggressive playstyle. This does require good timing and balancing her ability to support her team with heals and playing aggressive with off angles. But a lot of players especially low ranks don't do this enough. This combines with heal botting as they don't weave in kunais between her heals and that her kunai is harder to use than ofuda. I can see why her winrate is low.
Kiriko is the lowest win rate support at every single rank excluding GM and even in GM she has below 50%, so there is clearly something fundamentally wrong with the character, it isn't a playstyle diff. You can have more success in masters ranked lobby playing Moira or LW, so why play Kiriko when she is so much harder? For me personally, her primary fire has always felt really inconsistent, the high crit multiplier is kinda dumb on a support in the first place, but combine that with the small projectile, low body shot damage and the off-centre aim. It makes hitting headshots feel lucky rather than skilful.
I don't think you really commenting on design, rather high-level balance. For instance junk rat is, from a design perspective, a literally perfect character. Low barrier to entry, some reasonable level of skill expression, but a much lower ceiling than most heroes... he's a hook for new players that also sees some time in competitive play. Easy to get into character thst is neither overpowered nor irrelevant. that's a chef's kiss design.
It seems to me when T500 players talk about balance and game design, they actually mean what’s fun for their own kind, and not for the other 90% percent of the playerbase.
@@ReadilyAvailibleChomper Nobody has fun when all a junkrat does is sit in the back and spam, even if he "misses" the shot it bounces twice after. Thats not good design, thats boring and rewards NOT hitting shots too.
Ramatra feels like a slithly different version of OW1 Orisa. The same barrier, the same projectile, Nemesis acts like a more brawly fortify, even vortex and pull are not too dissimilar. The big difference the empathis they put on Nemesis, where the rest of Ram's kit feel almost non existent at this point. I wish there was more work put into actually making base form feel like a complete hero with Nemesis being a more emergency/impact oriented ult, a bit how you use nade on Ana, rather than what essentially feel like a fortify with a cooler design.
Well said. He is my favorite hero but his design is frustrating. Skill expression is quite limited and the hero overall is way too limited. Even Rein can be more oppressive. Ramattra is the least oppressive hero in the game that you can easily ignore and dump damage if he is fool enough to run around in nemesis form. His staff doesn't even make sense. It has fairly high dps, way better than punch in close range but it's irrelevant for mid-long range outside of spamming corners. So they want this hero to poke in omnic phase but he can't due to multiple reasons, and then they want this hero to switch to nemesis form in close range but you shouldn't unless you need armor/block or pierce. I think they should either make omnic form shittier and double down on nemesis form like Rein or they should just make him a bit different version of Sigma. Rein option: Block gets buffed with different mechanics that gives him more flexibility and agency. Sigma option: He loses mobility buff during nemesis, he loses block during nemesis but gets more armor bonus from transition + mega omnic form buff. Block and movement speed buff should be usable during ult though.
I dont believe mauga is entirely unbalanceable. I dont think his design will ever be fantastic but if they gave him the ability to crit through fortify again so he could at least be the counter pick to orisa i would happily take him as an addition to the game
I would be really interested in hearing him come up with hero designs from the bottom up. He has a ton of ideas on how stuff could be engaging and not busted and all that so it’d be cool to see what new concepts he could come up with
Personally I think what doesn't feel right with Ashe is that she doesn't really have a design, qnd therefore fit as a necessary or unic piece of the puzzle. As she is, she's fine, well design while lacking a bit of weakness, but in general she's fun to play and not cheesy. But her whole design feels very arbitrary. Her abilities are not really integral to her character or really interesting in any way, they are just functional, really disposable imo. Ashe doesn't feel exiting as a design, because well, she doesn't really have a design. The only think that remotely qualifies her as a hero is her gun type, and even then it's not really out of the ordinary. It's not as defining to her identity as a "sniper" would, it's fun and allows her to have a niche but you could give that tool to any hero. Her kit feels more like placeholder for what you'd need for a hero like her to function : *get off me tool*, *arbitrary projectile to throw whenever you need*, ... than an actual cohesive idea and clearly fits in the overwatch headspace. Compare this to a hero like Tracer. All of tracer's abilities work together and are integral to her design. Sure her guntype sort of defined a range of effectiveness like Ashe's does, but it's the rest of her kit that really makes tracer tracer. Tracer don't use her abilities arbitrarily or to respond passively to a situation but it's directly link to who she is at all time. Recall wouldn't work without blinks, tracer as a hero wouldn't work without blinks, the difference between tracer with or without blink is the difference between tracer and reaper. Now do the same thing with Ashe. Would Ashe fundamentaly if you gave her a grapplin hook instead of coach gun, litterally anything instead of her dynamite. No, her abilities contribute in no way to her design, they are serviceable and make the hero better, but you don need them and they don't work together or feel integral to Ashe as a hero. It doesn't help that her animations and physics are just goofy as f, which doesn't really fit her personality and overwatch as a game. Sure overwatch doesn't have very realistic physics, but it can generally be explained by sci-fi tech or is tied to the junkers which are goofy by nature. The way coach gun works just breaks suspension of disbelief and feels super out of place, both in her kit and in the general game of overwatch. To put it simply, Ashe feels like a TF2 character put in overwatch. Very fun as you'd expect, but not matching the game's complexity or universe.
Mercy? Niche appeal? When she's one of the most popular heroes in the game and has one of the largest, most vocal communities of any character in overwatch? How?
I feel like the only hero that’s been released in a good state in OW2, outside of power level, is JQ. She is very fun to play, and I don’t have any problems playing against her. The only hero that probably doesn’t like playing against her is like Winston maybe. Her entire kit just is designed pretty well imo. She was pretty bad at launch, but just some number tweaks made her much stronger, and I feel like she’s in a decent spot rn, maybe some very tiny buffs is all
As both a queen and winston main I actually think they have a relatively even matchup. Knife can absolutely ruin your day but it's not too hard to avoid if you are actively thinking about it and queen struggles to do anything about a winston in the backline (Similar to zar/sig)
As a Winston main, I used to get rolled by JQ every game. Then I got better. She’s simply a well designed hero. Can’t say the same for hog though. His ult is a guaranteed kill no matter what you do.
Lucio is literally the only reason I still play this game, once I moved to pc and started playing lucio it just stuck with me, I’ve always loved movement in games, and my movement in games has always been phenomenal, it’s my best quality when it comes to my skill in games, nothing like having people compliment you for skilfully dunking on them instead of raging and calling you shit because your character is ass to play against, I just wish they’d stop over designing maps because it feels like a nerf to him when there’s constant map geometry blocking you and having to find the perfect way to navigate it, it just feels ass
What scales did you use to judge and how important was each one? Fun to play? Fun to play against? Counterplay? Skill expression? Uniqueness? Interactivity?
Zen is insanely easier in OW2 than early ow1 when he was actually a skill based character. - +75 hp - kick cc - no need to worry about offtank pressure -Access to broken support peel abilities like suzu, pull and immortality - Discord primarily just shoved on single tank and isn’t moved around much -No need to actually win duels with flankers when you have insane peel from second support - Much more space to work with in OW2 makes positioning much easier
How are doom and queen not 1 and 2? They gain HP resources by landing abilities that require mechanics. They're the ultimate peak and valley heroes. You can throw a match terribly or carry it on your back.
@@jkvltra804 yeah, I guess the main issue is that his ONE cc gets spammed a shit ton and sometimes doomfist can just become a punchbot. plus block is kind of clunky and doesn't feel great to use. I think doomfist was a little bit low but those are definitely some issues. Plus Ball doesn't have hard CC, ( slam doesn't stun you at all it only knocks you up ). Punch is hard CC which can feel annoying for enemy tanks especially
Doom has a lot of bugs, ult isn’t great, very CC heavy, and is either really good or really bad a lot of times. Queen is really good, but she doesn’t have the same level of choice with what she does that a tracer or genji or Lucio or Winston, mostly because she just doesn’t have as much mobility. She has a lot of great aspects, nothing really bad about her at all. Just the way you play her doesn’t differ very much, outside of her ult usage
Its good that it replenishes armour, but the fact that the only counterplay is to disengage means that its OP in overtimes. It should have a fixed time
That speech you gave about playing Genji and that's all it took to make you an Overwatch player? That was what Ana was for me back in early 2017 - and I know many others can say the same. Thanks for having a nuanced take on her.
They should replace phara's big jump with a second set of jet engines which you can use to propel yourself forward using fuel just like the regular ones.
Never had a hard time playing with a ball. Thats a crazy statement. Im diamond/plat and the amount of balls i see that never come out of ball form is insane. If theres a ball on my team there is a 50% chance that guy is doing 3k dmg per 10
The fact that half the tanks are in the top 3 tiers and only two supports says a lot about the state of the game, because most people HATE tank and support is the most played role despite this.
Hi Spilo! I dig the content and the vod reviews you upload on the second channel are a godsend. If I can be honest though, I think this take here is absurd: 14:52. I've been agreeing with the vast majority of your takes on this game, namely your focus on dynamics, so why place reinhardt in A tier of all things? All of my experience when it comes down to Rein is that he slows down the game massively by being able to to always shield, his all-in or all-out style is the exact opposite of dynamic as well. All of his abilities are mutually exclusive, as in if you're fire-striking you're not charging, if you're shielding you're not swinging etc. I also find that he needs constant healing and support, meaning that he is not only non-dynamic, but requires everyone around him to become non-dynamic as well, he vacuums up fun with the best of them. Keep in mind that I was a rein main in OW1, I have all the reason in the world to be nostalgic about this hero but it just doesn't hold up when actually looking at his design. Surprisingly enough, this would not be my hot take. Genji being S tier is seemingly a unanimous opinion, but his reliance on his ult for value is so extreme versus his base kit that you sorta just watch him blade into your team helplessly very often. Again, all in or all out. He's definitely a C or even a D tier pick for me. The "highs" you get from Genji are mostly artificially given to you by the game because of the difference in power that I mentioned before. Also, you mentioned power block being a badly designed ability, so why is deflect any different? They are both designed in a way that punishes you for interacting with them, something that doesn't strike me as dynamic.
I disagree with the mercy personally. I'm not a mercy player at all, she's like one of the like 6 heros I don't play. But it takes good character design to have a non shooting character in an fps game while having some of the most consistent pick rates in ow in general
she has one of the most consistent pick rates because of the fact that shes a non shooting character and the fact that the people who play her are extremely dedicated
weird to open with genji S tier for appeal (true) then mercy D tier for 'niche' appeal (not true). let me be clear, you can definitely make an argument for mercy being C or D for design just because of the skill gap complicating the game's health. but he didnt make that claim, he basically admitted to being biased and not accounting for it
idk i enjoy using Pharah and not bothered about going against one. My main issue with using her....is by the time i get 2-3 quick picks with her, enemy team IMMEDIATELY hard swap most of their team just to counter me. I think out of the whole roster, she has the most counters against her at any given time. As much as i love using the character, its just too much when the whole enemy team swaps just to counter you as a Pharah.
The amount of hate you get as Pharah is so strange to me. I’ve seen cracked Widows force a Winston and Sombra. But as Pharah, even if I’m doing so mid like 5/4 I’ll get DVA, Ashe, Soldier, Illari, Baptiste. This just happened to me btw. In QP too lol. And every fight I’ll have at least three people focus me. I still won because if three people focus you focus on not dying and distracting and your team will clean up. I think Pharah is one of the very best at playing into her counters to the point I feel she’s secretly OP but mostly everyone picks Pharah, immediate counter swaps, they switch off. If you watch YNZA you can see what he does. Stay outside of hitscan’s effective range, switch up angles constantly, surprise flanks where you get very close to the hitscan, and holy moly for the love of god COVER. Watching Pharah’s fly around in the open sky completely forgetting fundamentals hurts my soul. Edit: Yeah, it’s really not that fun for you to get hard focus by the whole team every fight though lol.
coming from tf2 i just really dont like pharah she just doesnt feel like she has a good skill floor or ceiling, and the her shift is one of the worst examples of movement being diluted ever imo
I think Pharah is cool in concept but my issue with her is that I HAVE to swap or I literally can't even interact with her. Of course someone isn't going to stay on reaper, what do you expect? "Yeah sure man just fire rockets into me and my team for free and no one can even touch you, have fun bro!" lmao
@@jkvltra804 It’s definitely hard but as someone who doesn’t believe in counterpicking there’s a lot you can do. It’s sort of like playing against a Widow where you realize okay certain parts of the map are now danger zones and you kite them and make them get no value and focus their teammates. I’ll admit I don’t even know how to counter a really good Pharah but I’ve seen maybe 3 good Pharahs in my 1000+ hours. Easier said than done of course.
@@DJWolfHouse I can know certain parts of the map are dangerous and if Im on tracer or whatever I can just avoid her but that's not going to stop her from spamming out my tank and/or zoning a point. Pharah is the only thing that makes me swap, I'll play tracer into torb or sym because I can still interact with them, even widow I can get on top of if I take the right routes. Pharah is just in the sky out of my range unless I swap.
For Kiriko I do not like how she is able to use her teleport so freely, she basically never has to be in cover to use it even when dueling enemies far from her team. I think the animation should be slightly longer, enough to almost force her to suzu+teleport to have a guaranteed exit without dying. I also dislike the headshot multiplier and think that if it were removed the reload speed could in turn be decreased so you can reload between ofuda throws.
Id argue that kiriko design got worse with the recent healing buffs, which clouds her aggro identity. But i also argue her design can be high tier if she moves more towards zenyatta's glass cannon design with more fluid cooldowns that trades heal volume for explosive offensive potential.
I dont like widow too too much, but I've gotta say. Glass cannons are EPIC. I love tracer. I love that another strong hero has the below 200 hp weakness for some damn good strengths. Imo she could've kept her falloff and maybe go 150 health cause 175 is weird. But imo her head hitbox would wanna be a tiny bit smaller
As someone who literally has considered quitting Overwatch because of how much I hate mercy, I think she's a fantastic hero in theory. A very low skill introductory character with a clear niche is great, but the way she has been tuned is just absolutely beyond moronic.
The problem with mercy is how she deviates from tf2 medic other than her movement. Tf2 medic is a pocket style character built with a lot of mechanics to make pocketing much less efficient than juggling his team but he lacks the movement mercy has. Mercy is a character whos movement allows for what medic would want to do to an absurd degree but her tools are less effective if you don't pocket a dps hard. The ways they enable their teams are fundimentally opposed
Honestly: Sojourn’s Rail doing 100 bodyshot, 150 headshot could still be fine, just drop the +30/+45 for the love of god, she does not need it. With mercy damage boost that would become 195 headshot, same as Ashe, while still allowing Nano or Widow combos for big skill required team shredding,
Also THANK YOU. I’ve been thinking since the Sombra rework that the core aspect to Mei’s kit that I would want to see updated is Ice Block. It’s just not interesting to use, play against or play with as an ally. Ice Wall may be the most infuriating part of Mei’s kit, but Ice Block is the least interactive part of it. If Mei is in the next set of hero rework submissions, I’ve been cooking a cute little replacement.
On the Wrecking Ball discussion, I def think that a big part of it is community perception/willingness to learn how to play with a Ball in the first place. I cannot tell you the amount of people I've spoken to in metal ranks who just straight up refuse to try to play with/around a Ball/Doom on their team. It's wild.
@@abudgie6909 My personal favorite I've heard is Supports saying they wouldn’t heal their own tank if they're own Ball/Doom because the tank player is apparently 'Playing a different game then everyone else.' It's wild lol.
I feel like Lifeweaver is most definitely fixable. And right now, he’s the most fun he’s been so far. I agree that his damage is actually a bit too high, and I'd rather not have yet another support who can also deal a lot of damage like Bap, Moira, Zen, and Illari. The projectile speed buff did wonders for LW's thorn volley feeling good to use - great even, but the damage is a bit much. So just tone down the damage numbers a bit, and we're good there. Maybe go from 6 to 5.5 per thorn or something like that. Thorn Volley shouldn’t feel like it can compete with Tracer’s guns that also deal 6 per shot, y’know? One way to fix how heal-botty LW can sometimes feel is to reduce his ammo count even further with Healing Blossoms. Go from 16 to 14, or something like that. Get rid of the movement speed penalty when you hold the blossom for longer than a second though. Why is that even there? Though I will admit, with how they buffed the projectile speed of Thorn Volley, I feel like I’m not heal-botting as much nowadays, because LW can most definitely actually secure kills and still get value out of his Thorn Volley by holding angles and corners with it. Not to mention it’s great for breaking shields. So, I feel like having 14 Heal Blossoms is comfortable enough to work with. I think there needs to be more emphasis on his Petal Platform being used as a playmaking tool for himself or moreover teammates to use, rather than as a purely defensive reactionary ability. Because now it's more or less just a way for Lifeweaver to escape, which is fine, but there needs to be something else to it to give LW players the decision to make: "oh, should I save the petal platform for myself or to possibly save someone from a Zarya/Rein Ult, for instance. Or, should I leave my Petal Platform there for my teammate or even myself to take advantage of and use in advance of the team fight happening?" Other than giving Cassidy's High Noon and 76’s Visor high ground to work with, most other heroes can't really use Petal Platform that well. They just go up to it, look at it, go on it, and then proceed to soon jump off when they realize there's not much they can really do from that angle and high ground. Not to mention that they are still pretty vulnerable up there, staying in one spot for too long usually means someone will eventually snipe you out of there. Fortunately, I think Blizzard already gave us an idea on how to make Petal Platform more appealing for LW's teammates to use more often. In the Trials of Sanctuary mode, one of the upgrades you could get with LW made it so that Petal Platform gave any hero standing on it a boost in fire-rate. I think this is something they could add to Petal Platform proper and try out, while also giving LW more reasons than just purely defensive/reactionary ones to remember to use Petal Platform and make more active plays with it, along with giving his teammates incentive to get on it other than just reach high ground that they can’t normally reach quickly. In regards to Life Grip, I think it's fine as it is. It’s satisfying to save teammates from their bad plays and to save them from certain death, too. No change needed. Rejuvenating Dash, I feel like should be nerfed in regards to the amount of HP it heals (50 is a lot for such a short cooldown that also offers LW mobility, but 25 like before is too little, so some middle ground can definitely be found here), but not without taking a look at the support passive first. Because the support passive coupled with Rejuvenating Dash can make him pretty tanky, especially when he already has 225 HP, with 50 of it being shield HP. But I feel as though they gave him these things because they are satisfied with how his hitbox is like. So, ignoring the suggestion of making his hitbox smaller, they could look at Rejuvenating Dash, but only after they look at the support passive as a whole. With Tree of Life, I think it's fine for the most part; I just think it's kinda boring. I've heard people propose that it should cause a pulse that boops enemies out from its radius when it erupts from the ground and also when it emits a heal pulse with a lighter boop, and honestly I'm down with that.
Hanzo take: He is fun for low skill level players. When I started playing this game, I almost became a hanzo main and got my first potg is on him. Even tho my brain was parallel with the game and my aim was trash, he was still fun to play without ruining the enemy team's experience. I to this day remember a game of nepal, where (in hindsight) I was throwing, but it was really fun, cuz in spawn I made a plan: When the game starts, go in main, wallclimb to high ground, and shoot the enemy from the off angle, while my team runs down main. Because of my aim, I have never died once in that submap, as i did not hit a single shot until the end (where I logged the enemy ashe solely by luck), but I felt really good after that game.
Finally someone breaks out of the recency biase of "nerf Ana" spam. The reason why Anti-nade feels bad right now is because it's the only remaining tool that can consistently punish a tank feeding. Tanks are just so used to be absolutely unkillable if remotely pocketed that they don't even try to pretend they know the fundamentals of the game. If you use cover effectively, track enemy cool-downs, have an escape plan to your pressure, time your engagement with your team, engage in the right dual rather, bait dangerous enemy cool-downs, ... not only will you never die to a nade but you will actually be much more helpful in the tank role. But since most tank nowadays think that to run alone past a choke in the middle of the enemy team trying to 1v4, without paying any attention to which heroes are on the enemy team and if they have cool-down without using cover or having any escape plan is what they are supposed to do, because they always get away with it when there isn't an Ana in the enemy team, people prefer complaining about the only thing teaching them not to feed than to actually get better at the game. TBH for Nade to be a more reasonable tool, they definitely need to nerf the global amount of healing in the game RN. It's normal for players that learned that even while feeding their supports can keep them alive, something like nade would feel unfair. This of course come with lowering the spam damage in the game so there is still a balance. There is definitely a way to have a still balanced and fun game without having 80HPS from the two supports.
I disagree with the fact that Soldier 76 is bad design i think it was very intentional that they made him simple and this way. Its because he creates an easy entry point for people who come from fps and are not familiar with MOBA type shooters, which in my oppinion constitutes good design, because he has a clear purpose and he serves it well.
The bottom two rows are also the problematic "counterswaps". These are the heroes that people swap to after one fight. Devs should not cater to playstyles that discourage proactive gameplay with the press of a button. The skill required to outplay the abilities of the bottom two rows is FAR greater than the skill required to play those heroes. I was playing some matches with my 5 stack last night. We raged and complained when losing matches against Hog, Sombra, Junkrat, Lifeweaver, Moira (and other bottom tier heroes). They counterswapped after a single fight. We didn't feel like swapping our comp. It's QP, we want to enjoy our heroes. Guess what happened when we lost our match against a Monkey Lucio Genji comp. "Wow they were really good" "GGWP" "well done Monkey". Heroes in the top 3 rows don't feel cheap or corny. You respect their gameplay and can learn from your mistakes. Some of the bottom rows are salvageable. I know Blizzard will never delete heroes, but honestly how much healthier would the game be if Roadhog, Moira, and other major offenders weren't Overwatch? How much better would the game be for our mental health? And how much more would we be encouraged to improve our fundamentals?
How would you fix Illari Spilo? I agree that she gets less fun the more you play her and her lore is actually really good so I wish they would make her more engaging and add more choice.
mauga shouldve been a melee character. keep everything in his kit but replace right click with a personal shield and give his primary fire a shark tooth axe.
Ramattra is my favorite hero and it's sad to see him really bad. The hero is very limited. I totally agree with you. He has good potential though. They should either lean on Rein archetype or Sigma archetype with him. If we are going for Rein archetype, block needs changes and hero needs mobility desperately. Something like overrun, charge or limited jump whatever and then block needs have counterplay against cc and possibly teamplay benefits. If we are gonna lean on Sigma archetype then omnic form needs major buffs, block and movement speed buff needs to go, give him little more armor in nemesis transition. Keep the block only for his ultimate. So he will have a competitive poke war and then when things get spicy, instead of Sigma's rock and suck, he gets armor bonus and punch people. For this, his staff damage needs a nerf but his accuracy needs a megabuff, ammo capacity also needs buff and then he needs more barrier.
I disagree about junkrat. I dont think his spammy nature is terrible design, i think lots of games have a character like this and its fine. But they issue is his largish hitbox and his lack of horozontal movement. This forces him into a playstyle where he cant actually play in a way that lets him takes risks, and instead encourages the player to sit back and spam nades down a choke. But i think he could work, if his fire rate was lowered and his movement was buffed.
One thing about Sigma that I noticed recently with the Quick Play: Hacked is that he is one of the slowest characters in the game. Normally characters with no mobility like Zarya or Ana either excel in the back line or are aggressors and push into the enemy team. Sigma doesn’t do either as well as other heroes. His projectiles don’t have enough range and speed to poke long range. He can use his shield or grasp to push, but these abilities are easily counter-able and not being able to cancel grasp or have an escape tool to create a window of relief makes playing Sigma a little frustrating when playing against other heroes like Ramattra. The game is going to speed up, and I think Sigma would be glossed over for the more mobile tanks.
I think rein's biggest fault, if you can even call it a fault, is that hes so perfectly designed to the point all his faults come from other unhealthy interactions in the game and 5v5. In OW1, he had arguably the best tank synergies in th game and the rush playstyle back then felt fair for both sides where I personally feel it was the best meta for the averge overwatch player(Ik lots of you love dive but its at it's best at high elo, not your metal ranks. Removing that second tank and making him a solo tank drops his score cause hes so reliant on other tanks and the way tanks are, he sucks due to other tanks being poorly designed and too strong inherently with their more modern kits.
Maybe someone here can explain this to me because I've always been confused by it: The winrates on Overbuff. Brig has a 53% win rate in comp and a 1.79% pick rate. Someone like Ana has a high pick rate at 8% but 48% win rate. A lot of people would argue Ana is the better character to climb with, but brig has the higher win rate. Is Brig being undersold and actually pretty good? Or does Ana just have a lower win rate because more people play her so it's easier for the numbers to inflate?
Brig is picked more so in ideal scenarios whereas ana is picked whenever. I have like 70% winrate on torb for example but I almost never play him and when I do it's in the most ideal situation ie map/point/comp but if I one tricked torb i'd probably have a negative winrate with him.
I honestly think nano should no longer heal and give speed again like it used to calling it broken because of "beyblade meta" is clearly very dumb, definitely feels like something that only worked because the game was new
Hey Spilo big fan- about the Ana placement, I thought we weren’t talking about numbers? But the overall design and dynamics in a characters kit. Her range gives her positioning dynamic, nade offensive/defensive (even if the time anti’d on tanks is too much) and sleep dart similar. Are the problem you have with her fundamental to her design or are her numbers just too pushed?
Balance inevitably has to play a factor. One good balance patch could fix sojourn’s issues, but dmg boost oneshot and awkward primary fire spread are what we have to base it off, so nade cooldown and the interplay between nade and support passive is also fair play.
Illaris gun is one of the coolest weapons overwatch has ever seen. It is powered by a STAR and wielded by a walking fusion reactor. It is one of the most badass rifles ever, it even doubles as a sword. Yet it is the worst sounding weapon in the game, it’s just so disappointing.
Her visual and lore design is very good, but gameplay loop is very stale, boring and uninteractive since she's pretty much immortal with the turret up. Not the best hero design.
I'm surprised about DVa, but once I hear your reasoning I'm not sure if I disagree or not. I would have expected you to put her higher. There's so much choice and decisions to make as DVa. That's what makes her so fun for me. And her style of tanking is unique, I know she's a dive tank, but she's noticeably different from Winston and Doomfist. Diving is only one aspect of her style of play. And the flow of cycling from high cooldowns to low cooldowns, and engaging and disengaging, is impactful on the choice and decision-making. Where do I go and when do I go are two decisions that have a high degree of freedom and choice, and room for optimisation. I know she's never really been a feature in pro play, apart from a few isolated niche situations. And I guess that ties into your argument of her having less of a place in OW2. Like it's significant that she was in 90% of pro metas in OW1 and like 2-3% in OW2. I'm not sure why this is, I'm not big brained enough. I'm not sure any other tank has more room for decision-making to impact their effectiveness (though this point is controversial and I'm not super sure about it). Except maybe Winston. We all know it's easy to have a feeding DVa and have a carrying Dva, and I don't think the difference between the two is mechanics. Apart from Winston, what other tanks are so unforgiving for decision-making? Tanks like Reinhardt, Ramattra, JQ, there's still skill expression in decision-making but they're also more forgiving.
I wanted to argue about Mercy, as a no aim player, but after a bit of thought I realized I can't really. Usually best playstyle is quite borring for mercy player (hiding behind a wall and blue beam) and annoying for enemies. Rez is too risky and too potentially powerful. Most fun part of her kit (movement) is discouraged. I wish her design was better
She could've been higher imo had they not forced her into the pocket playstyle. It's genuinely the worst playstyle in the game and it + rez don't mesh well together with her fun movement.
How about this rammatra rework: you can go between staff and nemesis form at ANY time, staff form doesn’t reload when swapping back and forth, nemesis form has less speed by a bit, no longer grants armor, just converts some of your current health to armor. Shield has a shorter cooldown, block has less damage resist but has a little less movement speed penalty. This should make the character much more fluid, let you go between forms whenever you want, so if you need poke you can do that, if you need brawl you can do that. And it makes it so leaving nemesis form early doesn’t feel so bad. His ult could maybe also have a different effect in staff form, like much more range but less damage , and you can go between them. This way it truly feels more like a form, as in a major trade off between each one, and not just “now I can do stuff” in nemesis form. His primary grin could also have a faster rate of fire or faster projectile speed
Tbh i see 2 options for kiri. She becomes a dps or stays a support. Dps. Swift step is free movement, 10 sec cooldown. Moves through 1 wall max. Closest wall only. 25 m distance. Suzu self cleanse (use while stunned) keep momentum up basically. Offuda short range snare/trap. Kunai 60 w 2.5x Higher velocity. Damage falloff starting at 25 meters *Still 2 tap widow max range, always* Support. Swift step heals kiriko+ 1 sec cooldown Suzu does 0 healing + 10 for cleanse Give kiriko offence utility outside of kunais. Aka #KeepKikosBoop and buff it. Rest of suzu is in a good state but personally .75 invulnerability not .65 ^ reduce self suzus and try use earlier in fight to help engage. Can still cleanse and all. Risk rewards. Same logic as anna nade. *Bell = soft cc* Offuda, blue papers are more aoe a s slower(8mps) Kunai, slow the rate of fire (gives so much ult charge rn + body shot dmg) Tbh i like the 3x multiplier. I know unpopular but t2k with new kunai is quicker. I dont like that. Dmg fall off still but faster velocity. To me this just seems right. Reward precision and less spam. Smaller hit box too. (Still good cqb*possible buff* worse at range) And either way, please make wall climb feel more *consistent* . One way is to remove the bunny hope that the game tries *if* wall climbed/ on bunny hope refresh wall climb. (If you ever wall climbed and it disconnected, then u hit the ground and couldn't climb for a second *above* has happened and its infuriating as you effectively got to climb 3 times.
If Rein wasn’t allowed in the Holy Grail category because of Winston, I don’t think Genji should be there either because of Tracer. All of them are of great character design, but since Tracer edges out over Genji, he should get the same downgrade treatment
I maintain that my favorite Brig state (as a Brig player) was season 1. Repair packs didn't need to be buffed, Rally didn't need the rework it got, and it was before they started messing with stuff like her whipshot damage.
Old Rally was Reeeaaallly bad tho. Atleast if you compared it to all the other stuff in OW2 it was just not great. They could've buffed it instead of reworking it but I personally love her new ult a lot.
@@Oguh608 It wasn't bad at all. It made her really hard to kill and she could, ironically, take space easier using old rally. It was especially good when they buffed the charge rate by 15% because she was suddenly rallying every other fight.
I had an idea for Widowmaker just now. Part of my inspiration for it is from Valorant, but. What if, instead of her always having the sniper rifle... Her ult becomes the sniper mode, maybe with a bit of a faster charge rate if it's a timed ult. And if it's not timed, say like Venture, she gets a certain amount of shots. As for how she'd work outside of the ult, simple, make a kit around her SMG. Buff the damage a bit, rework venom mine into something else. I was thinking a venom grenade, but then it's kind of the same as Ash dynamite. Though maybe, like Mauga, you could give her a damage buff against poisoned targets. And for the grapple... Honestly, keep it. It's a good an inocuous movement tool that would serve her well. I also had an idea for Hanzo, not as much though. Maybe, what about... Decreasing his damage by a lot, say maybe a two-tap to the head. But the trade off is a big fire rate buff, though maybe not as much as storm arrow. Keep recon arrow, wall climb. Not sure what to do with storm arrow in this case, or the ult. But, these were just my thoughts, anyone's free to critique them! Personally I like my Widowmaker concept. It makes her more engaging and less isolated from fights and not just the, 'Oh I just got randomly one-shot cool' character. Turning the sniper into her ult also means she'd have a voice line, so you have a warning of, 'hey, she's in sniper mode. Hide.' Maybe you could even keep the walls with her sniper mode, but maybe just for her rather than team-wide? I'm not sure.
I think Moira is an okay character design. She's the classic "lifesteal" archetype. She's also the only support that doesn't have any utility - she's just straight up a high dmg + healing character. That makes her unique which is good for the game. She also has probably the highest survivability out of any support, which makes her a great pick for someone who's getting dived and can't seem to stay alive. All in all, I think she rounds out the support category very well and she would be missed if she was removed
somewhere in the first half of the video i thought that this man was just very biased towards dive heroes, so is just every hero without massive mobility options bad by design? Then he got to rein and sigma and i was like wait this man is cooking what i don't agree is with this man in the chat saying "ram bastion mauga are the same hero", bastion and mauga i can see but ram? How so? his omnic form does only a fraction of the damage these two do point blank and is best for mid-long range poking or tracking someone in the vortex, his nemesis form is the "up close and personal" option that does, yet again, only a third of bastions dps in sentry mode. Besides, it is good for chasing people down since you get a slight movespeed boost, while bastion can either move slow or slower (aka cannot chase anyone). Ram's ultimate is a little bland and uncharacteristic for tank ults since it just pumps out damage if you're close to someone instead of providing area denial or cc for example, and that is something that's not very good by design. Still, i would place him a tier or two higher.
When Spilo says Ram is the same as Bastion and Mauga, he's referring to their over-reliance on a single, extremely powerful cooldown that turns them into an unstoppable monster for a short duration. Even if Nemesis doesn't do that much damage, it's an incredibly strong ability that makes his kit extremely centralized. However, when he's not in Nemesis, he doesn't really do much. It causes a bunch of issues, from balancing being a nightmare due to stance being over-centralized, to an extremely linear playstyle since he can't really do anything other than press the Nemesis button.
@@blazefactor6849 Oh, when you put it that way yeah, it's true I think spilo did say this about nemesis form being the best offensive and defensive tool at the same time in his tank rework video, and honestly the 100 armor change in omnic form helped at least a bit. But from a gameplay perspective, sentry form and nemesis form act quite differently, ram wants to get through the tank and to other targets most of the time and his pierce helps with that, but bastion can just shoot whoever is the most exposed and since he has a lot of dps, shooting the tank is quite viable too. That's what I was going for with the differences, but I agree with the over reliance on one singular cooldown. I'm not sure how I'd go about this honestly, like how to make omnic form better defensively for example. Although, block in nemesis is already significantly weaker since the damage reduction is now capped at 50%.
@@prismaticpaul Honestly, if you wanted to shift the power around, it'd be pretty simple. Block is the biggest issue with Nemesis, so I'd probably put it on a resource. That way, it's something you can't just hold, which forces you to be way more active. Beyond that, you'd want to A. buff his shield (cooldown or health, either way works), and B. make his primary fire actually useful in neutral (boost the projectile speed significantly, reduce the damage a bit). The range alone gives omnic form more defensive utility. You don't have to play super far up all the time, you can find value by taking an angle like Sigma until you want to utilize nemesis to take an aggressive position. Giving him a more reliable gun and shield would make his poking ability way better, and the block nerf would make it harder to purely turtle while also making sure he can't turtle in his ult as much.
Hey man, I mainly consume your content by listening - only occasionally gotchu glancing at the screen. Do you you mind saying the name of the hero that you're talking about? You do sometimes but I have to do a lot of guessing.
Not sure what you're discussing here, but it is clearly not hero design - but rather current meta, hero balance and community love towards characters. "No one wants to play with/against Pharah. No one likes playing Pharah" = bad design. "Genji is fun to play and his appeal got many people into the game" = good design. In my opinion, hero design means abilities and guns - and counterplay to them. What's the counterplay to Genji deflecting a Widowmaker's shot to my head? Or him dashing into me, doing 180 to the head, dashing out after? Clearly some issues there because he has same exact issues Widowmaker does. What's the counterplay to a good Tracer? - there is none, because she can undo any mistake at demand - is this really good design, to be at mercy of a Tracer making a mistake? Imagine if everyone had an aimbot, perfect accuracy and played perfectly - what would happen, what characters would be broken? That's how you identify bad design heroes - heroes with no counterplay. But hey guys, clearly Pharah (the one true projectile hero in the game) that gets abused by hitscan and the fact that other heroes above do better job than she does, is bad design. Totally, dude.
Mercy straight up doesn't interact with a lot of the game. My support friend called it "she plays her own minigame". I get that they want to appeal to players that normally won't play a FPS. But that's just wildly bad design. She gets to dip out of something like aiming. And by doing so creates one of the most aim intensive situations in the game. Resulting in a lot of frustration when that same kind of player can't perform when playing against her. And now they can't do anything about it since so many people lean on that exact flawed design. Just really short sighted.
They add a character like Ramattra who, for all intents and purposes, is *THE FINAL BOSS* (the guy has a transformation for god's sake) and the DIDN'T GIVE HIM A COMMAND GRAB. BRO instead of block let me grab Ana as a human shield and throw her into my team LOL
To me tanks and supports have complained about Ana for ages in OW1. It was generally muted. Ana is just one CC spammer in a sea of CC in OW1. OW2 shes the only strong CC remaining outside of tank because she wasn't adjusted into OW2. She is the only one left to get attention. The introduction of more non-shield tanks really shows how detrimental it is to play such tanks as hog/dva in OW1 when Ana exists. How Anas existence really solidifies the desire for shielding in OW1.
I hate ashe so much, constant far range pressure with counters to every threat against her (boop away dives, AOE corners) sure you can focus cooldown cycles but you have to waste one of your own to bait hers then take advantage on retake. a theoretically smart rockpaperscissors but awful to play against if your team isn't coordinated
Let them haters know. I understand the issues with Ana, and I play Doom so I know how it feels to have a character that spells death as soon as you make a minor mistake, but she's one of the most satisfying characters to play as and with. When you reach flow, it's like you're taking decisions every second, being proactive and impactful with every move. And having a good Ana teammate when you're playing a flanker feels like you're getting healed out of nowhere, and are constantly able to extend your pressure without needing to retreat. And she's not even impossible to deal with if you have a flanker, she's just really strong when nobody's pressuring her.
Ana is very well designed, there are just some pain points that come with the single tank format. Anti feels a little too oppressive, but fundamentally ana is one of the gold standard heroes in terms of game design.
I'd love for LW to be more engaging. I was thinking they could change the way Petal Platform works, like making it similar to Sigma's shield or Pylon where you can recall it and re-place it on a short CD (maybe 4 sec). That way he can actually make his entire team more mobile. Too often someone steps on it and immediately gets off wasting a 12 sec CD ability. In exchange they should nerf the petal's health to like 200 and also have the destroyed CD be maybe 12 seconds, so enemies can still track its CD. His dash could also be reduced back to 25 healing. I like his damage but it is a bit goofy how easy it is to beam down reapers at close range. Life Grip is alright, upping the CD again was definitely the right call. Tree could be changed and i wouldn't care, it's just meh.
I have to mildly disagree about Ana I feel specifically anti in how it functions is broken when so many things that just weren’t a thing in overwatch one benefit Ana specially so much. She was one of the only supports who couldn’t reliably heal herself, anti with one less tank specifically who can eat or predict the nade like a zarya or dva or sigma, the game has shifted much more into an fps direction so killing power is much more important than just having more resources, and generally with the state of dps in my opinion as a support player supports functionally just are better easier dps characters with healing built in. All of these factors lead to anti being all the more necessary and I don’t know if it’s just me or console specifically but it just feels really easy to land at least on specific characters for the value it gets I essentially look at someone with a I think ten second cooldown and it usually confirms a kill. I feel a lot players love Ana specifically because while she is skillful and she isn’t built to heal bot, right now in the state of the game she’s a character who just feels like she gets so much more value so much easier than she probably should in one specific aspect of her kit that can honestly be worked around.
I don't think the Hanzo take is controversial, I VERY much agree. If you take away his one-shot or his long range viability he becomes a tank buster, if you take away his close range viability then he's more vulnerable than Zen but without the super long range viability Widow has.
Tankbuster Hanzo is absolute skillfloor if Hanzo's base kit became similar to storm arrow (a commonly proposed rework) but I have no doubt that's how he'd be used by the majority of the playerbase, similar to Bastion, Reaper, Mauga; why target squishies without incentive and the skillfloor is so rewarding?
i just want them to swap valkyrie and resurrect. that would solve a lot of grievances on both sides of the mercy argument. a fun impactful active ability that you get to use every fight and the enemy team doesn’t have to deal with rez often. damage boost can be tuned down outside of valk but be really potent in valk then you compensate her somewhere else.
Is valk really a "fun impactful active ability" tho? I feel like the main thing it does right now is make Mercy pretty much unkillable and make everything else about her better, so she can do whatever she wants. I don't see any skill expression in valk just like the rest of her kit. Character is trash, just bin it.
I'd only agree with that if she can ult rez the whole team, or at least 2 or 3 teammates. A rez ult would need some more value, not all rezzes are good for the team. So let her rez more.
You could fix Hanzo. If you swap his primary fire to be like Storm Arrow, but with less damage/attack speed and you replace Storm Arrow with a long-range sniper shot like his current primary fire.
@@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERSwhen you say it like that, then it isn't much different. But the primary would be a lot more like Cass rather than Sojurn's spray and pray and the "one shot" would be on a long cooldown, rather than every 5 seconds.
@@bigfudge2031 ok i see the vision i was also thinking abt a sojourn rework that would be sorta similar, turning her primary into more of a DMR feel and making rail an attack speed boost instead of a hip fire widow headshot which is frankly obscene imo
Why Mauga deserves his own tier: Everything about his kit is worthless in my eyes and opinion, and "mid range poke and overrun being fun" isn't enough to put him on the same tier with some of my least favorite heroes. 1. Berserker (His Passive) Is already treading on game design within his own Role. Junker Queen is already a tank hero specifically made for OW2 with a passive that grants her healing off of her damage. Albiet in a balanced way, since her self heal doesn't hard counter most brawl tanks with ease. If something doesn't add to the game in a positive, interesting, or unique way, It should not exist in my opinion. 2. Incendiary Chaingun and Volatile Chaingun (Or Gunny and Cha-Cha) are also badly designed, I feel like this is the one thing where the skill expression is supposed to arise in his kit considering his two abilities and ult are just "charge with less reward and less risk." "Lifesteal DR" and "Winston Barrier / Cassidy Roll reload gimmick / Junkrat Trap love child." But this weapon is just as uninteresting as the rest of his kit, here's a flow chart if you think otherwise. Light them on fire > Shoot other gun. If you deal more dps by just firing both, ignore both steps and drool over your keyboard at the other tank. Even aside from gameplay functions, I already mentioned him overlapping with JQ, She already has a "named weapons" gimmick that formerly was unique to her, and Ashe already has a burning gimmick, albeit Mauga adds the combo feature to it, which I've already mentioned doesn't add much IMO. 3. Overrun is just really boring, and misleading as an ability. Visual design conveys this as a spectacular attack, (Whole body is coated in flames from the speed he's generating, his stomping ability makes it look like a buffed EarthShatter on cooldown...) Actually mostly a defensive escape ability (DR and being unstoppable are the most powerful aspects, landing the stomp deals 5 more damage than a rein swing...) It being unstoppable is a band aid solution for the fact that this character has no answer to CC outside of it. 4. Cardiac Overdrive is genuinely one of my least favorite abilities in the entire game. I watched tons of Noobhunter clips, he was everywhere when he was pay to win, I had no idea how exactly it worked, I only knew it was lifesteal and DR because of the trailer. When you look at fortify, you can immediately tell it's a damage reduction ability, What about a yellow ring on the floor conveyss that idea? And there's no skill expression or learning curve or need to adapt to the ability either like JQ shout, another AOE boosting ability done better, her speed boost changes the way you need to aim, and that's something you'll need to practice, something Mauga doesn't need. This is quite literally the worst sustain ability you could come up with that gets the job done correctly. 5. Cage Fight, the least egregious of his kit yet still terrible. Here's a little design experiment I have, Compare this ult to each ult of the characters you've placed in your holy grail tier. Tracer's is a bomb, Blade replaces ninja stars with a "strong" sword, Lucio gives everyone lots of health, Winston's is a transformation that gives you extra HP, quicker jumps and punches. Cage Fight... - gives you a 1500 HP barrier (with too much cast time to dodge things on reaction like Winston or Rein, and works in a circle meaning how you deploy it doesn't unlike Rein, Sigma or Ram) - Reloads your weapon (so don't even worry about one aspect that would require thought) - Silences your enemies movement abilities (creating super unfair matchups and further exasperating the counter-pick issue with Overwatch, compare Doom to Orisa) - Tethers himself and enemies within to the ultimate itself. It's just a much less exciting Grav that tries to overcompensate with extra little bonuses. If an ultimate this much extra fluff to justify it's existence as an ultimate instead of an ability, it might just be too flawed to try and make work.
lifeweaver could b midtier i think. his heal should not be instant when it reaches, its so completely deranged that ana's shots heal over 1second and lifeweavers instantly give the target 70 hp. it makes it hard to tell ur getting healed by him and makes it feel like youre doing negative damage to a target getting his heals compared to seeing the hp bar rise from ana's shots or even a brig pack. the petal is the best thing in his kit imo, lifegrip is okish but petal offers the most for choice and strategy. lifegrip is always used in the same way (unless its to troll.) i think petal should just be tuned to interact with other abilities better. let certain attacks pierce it, make it carry the grav up with it instead of somehow passing through the grav to carry people out of it, make its hitbox less wacky (any time i try to dash up to it as genji i hit the edge. i have never been able to get on top of an enemy lw's petal w/o aiming much higher than i think i need to)
I have always been saying Ana is a poorly designed character. She is just beloved and fun because she has the agency in her hands, but that doesn't mean good design. Punishable at times, sure, but there are still tons of problems. Here's my rant: -Strongest CC should not exist on a support and that's why we took all cc EXCEPT for this one off because holy moly would everyone lose their minds if they did. -Strongest CC cooldown that is easy to land on big hitboxes flows into strongest utility cooldown that is also easy to hit on big targets. Both cooldowns alone can easily get a tank killed, and are extremely easy to spam at them. Both stop the tank from playing the game for a long time. On a character picked the most, it's no wonder the one tank in each game feels awful and they are whining. Land one easy shot on a big target, free next one (sleep then nade) then "gg tank fed" toxicity runs rampant on the enemy team. They are the spikiest abilities in the game in terms of value aside from suzu, so of course they go into the tank always. -Why should a character have 2 cooldowns that mark you for death? They just need one to counter all of the same characters. Give her something else that's interesting and put one of the utilities elsewhere (probably the super stun) -Every tank from here on out without a frequent uptime ability mitigation tool will be pretty hard countered by ana. Not only will you have your tanks that counter you, but also this support will do a lot to much of the tank roster for forever more because of the inclusion of nade with sleep -Ana isn't as skill shot focused as people like to admit. Headshots take a lot of skill and she doesn't have them. She still requires a lot of skill so there is healthiness about her as well. Her poor health for the game is centralized in the combination of her two abilities. People act like landing a sleep dart is like landing a widow head shot up close. It takes some skill, but this isn't a large factor when the hitbox of the bullied role completely mitigates this. She is widow for tanks, except when you jump on her, the skill shot is way way easier for her to land than it is with widow. Approaching ana is like approaching a slightly more fair hanzo. Super unhealthy. -The diversity of use cases for nade is not reflected in any other ability in the game. What else does decent damage, decent instant healing, and 2 utility abilities (purple and yellow) that are both very good, one of which can result in hundreds of damage worth of utility (stopping healing) and is game defining because of it. It's great that she can do so much with an ability, but not when other characters can't. Every other ability is basically 1 or 2 other things and all of them are probably less impactful when used right. She'll always feel good if you land your abilities (sometimes you can just throw them at the ground and you'll never miss), and she can't be countered off of her hero like tanks are by her or their tank counterparts, let alone the combination of the two. -this is a small one, but sleeping people turns into a lot of teabagging and similar bad behavior towards a sleeping player who can't play the game -stunning for 5 or even 3 seconds is pretty crazy. Nothing is as "turn your game off for a long time" as this, especially since it's usually coupled with a death. Most games don't include stuns this long for obvious reasons. -not enough compensation was ever given for the massive buff that the support passive was for ana. Might as well throw your nade off cooldown into the enemy tank, because you have self healing and the best disable in the game. Needing a 120 health life swing that you can't miss on the ground was already debatably overkill for the design (but it's nice to present the choices and define playstyles with them). Ana is super unhealthy for the tank experience, people just like skill expression which is great, but it's still a problem.
ok, I know I cooked- what are your hot takes?
This video expresses what Ive been thinking for a long time. A shocking number of heros are fundamentally badly designed. Idk hoe Blizz could ever dig themselves out of this pit
@StormcrowProductions You're gunna love this: I think Widow is fine. Now, let me cook.
Widow is a Mechanically demanding character, and has received some of the most heavy nerfs to any sniper Character in the game. She has the longest Cooldown of any DPS Hitscan, and has already had her health nerfed. However, she can dominate the game given the player who wields her.
Now that the game has gotten MUCH faster, with Soujourn getting 6 second slides, and your biggest fear being enemy supports who have a lot more movement than you do, and dive tanks, which D. Va keeps getting Micro-buffed every patch. If D. Va wants you dead, she will kill you. Unless the Devs want Widow to be Immobile to have counterplay, I'd argue for 2 critical buffs.
1. Buff Widow's health back to 200. Dive, even with just 1 tank, STOMPS Widow. She relied on peel from a second tank in case she got in a sticky situation. With that 2nd tank gone, she's HELPLESS. Give Widow her 200HP back, to get maybe that extra 1-2 seconds she needs to get back to her team.
2. Buff Grapple Cooldown, PLEASE. BOTH of Reaper's movement Cooldowns are faster than Widow. Soujourn gets 2 slides in that time, Ashe is faster, and Hanzo gets what, 2, 3 Lunges? The game has gotten MEGA fast over the years, Widow needs something to catch up to the Mobility creep. Last time Grapple Hook was touched was a year or 2 BEFORE Overwatch 2. It's gotta get fixed. I'd be acceptable with 10 seconds but if I had the reigns, go down to 8. Soujourn still outclasses her, but she feels like she at least has it when she gets dived so she can get away.
Maybe not a hot take but I’m a little surprised by your thoughts on Zen. The Zen mini-rework is one of my favorite changes they’ve made (granted, I’m definitely biased myself as a tank main-Doom and JQ), and sure, they could make it less effective on tanks, but what they did introduces both active counterplay and greater forethought in how discord is actually used. If it were just flat out less effective on the tank, it does introduce a new decision for Zen, but that decision is entirely one-sided-if they want to put it on a specific target, be it the tank or someone else, that player is still at the mercy of that Zen’s decision without a method of counterplaying the discord orb.
Now, when I fight a good Zen, especially one that is really good at holding onto discord for hard commits, if I’m tilted I still want to tear my hair out, but if I’m in a better headspace I enjoy trying to break down how exactly to try to take advantage of the Zen saving discord on me, or how to commit hard enough to get discorded but soft enough to not die for it. And when I play Zen, I enjoy the extra thought that goes into placing discord, because now it’s an actual commitment to discord someone.
Absolutely right on Ana though. I think the wake-up animation time for sleep should be a tad shorter-it can get a bit ridiculous how quickly you can explode if you get slept, and it probably shouldn’t be a death sentence regardless of health/cooldowns to entire tanks as often as it is (yes, that’s a positioning thing to an extent, but it’s too punishing right now imo). But her kit feels awesome to use, and she has healthy levels of counterplay, as her against aggressors as well as against her. Anti feels bad in part because of inflated damage numbers which have also been paired with inflated healing numbers to compensate, such that the contrast between normal survivability and anti’d survivability is too stark, but that’s not justification to modify anti to me, especially when she fits into an offensive utility design space that has been unfortunately lacking from newer support designs whose utility is overwhelmingly defensive.
Sombra’s problem isn’t hack, it’s invis. Hack is extremely powerful against certain characters but it lacks counterplay because you can’t just avoid her with any level of consistency, and in fact, any version of her with perma-invis that is balanced in terms of *power level* is still going to have incredibly polarizing matchups, because she gets to engage entirely on her terms without any semblance of counterplay.
Also, warm take: do whatever you want to suzu, but don’t touch swift step beyond MAYBE putting an extra second on the cooldown at most. It’s a huge huge part of what makes Kiri fun and dynamic and the pain points it creates for her opponents are, in my opinion, overexaggerated by a lot of people who could probably stand to better track cooldowns and better understand the value and necessity of forcing CDs (and doing so before trying to make any big flashy plays).
Jar jar binks
Ana deserves S++ tier and nade should prevent anyone from being healed for the rest of the match
I think the worst part about Pharah is that some characters just can't interact with her. Even with a bad matchup, you can still interact with the enemy. If you're a Reaper, you don't get to play against Pharah.
Like, Echo HAS to touch the ground or stall in interesting areas, and she’s often more effective close range. Pharah rarely needs to risk herself except by hitscan DPS
And more to the point, if there’s a Mercy, who’s movement is fairly balanced, tethered to the Pharah, her movement is incredibly erratic, like a double pendulum, and her GA cooldown, which is balanced on the ground, is just continually abused to fly back to Pharah so neither of them touch the ground.
What’s worse is higher ranks know how to use the cover of tall buildings, so sometimes you don’t even see the Mercy at any angle while you only manage chip damage on Pharah that gets healed bc the beam will literally NEVER disconnect.
The only time it feels like there’s a HARD counter in the game. Unfun.
the worst part is, if her partner is a tracer, u are looking up while tracer deletes you from the side. it's not that we can't aim, it's that we can't afford to look up because the flank pressure is immense enough to cause an L
The biggest problem with this is when it extends to her own team.
Like you can always tweak certain hero a bit so they can interact with a flying hero, and there's rarely a situation in game where absolutely no hero can threaten the Pharah.
The problem with Pharah is that beside mercy, not support hero can reliably keep her alive, and some like Bap, moira and Lucio straight up can't interact with her, or at least not without compromising either their role or the Pharah's role.
Pharah doesn't need a mercy for damage amp as she already deals a lot of damage, but really needs something to keep her alive.
And so as mercy is the only hero that can unable a Pharah to focus on her job, Pharah is massively underpowered without a mercy, and if they want to make Pharah viable without mercy she becomes completely broken with one.
I think that the only way to solve that issue is to give Pharah a form of self heal or at least more survivability but diminish how threatening she is to compensate. Therefore Mercy becomes way less necessary for Pharah to get value, but adding a mercy doesn't improve Pharah as much.
Of course mercy has her own set of problems, personally I think that damage amp should go to another hero to give her more of a toned Kitsune rush effect (more reactable for the enemy team, feels more impactful for the person being pocketed and suits mercy's character better). But that's getting away from the subject.
I think a lot of people forget that Lucio got a rework in early OW1 and I have to say that's probably the best rework that's been done to a character with how fair and admirable of a support character he is now.
What was different back then?
@@wisp9856 His aura was 3x wider meaning you basically got free value for existing, but he had less lethality and less wallriding potential. I think amp was also a lot stronger.
@@wisp9856Lucio aura was 30 meters instead of 10 and didn’t get a speed boost after jumping off a wall
@@justalex9101 That sounds horrid
@@wisp9856Also he couldnt jump twice on the same wall
I was just about to form my own opinion, thanks mr coach spilo
there will be a 2nd row in the lowest tier by the end of the year
Real
imagine Vulture having his own tier of bad
@@k_e_K_e___ who the hell is vulture?
@@ashonline77 New upcoming character
@@alisque2624 that's venture
The unique and fun design of Wrecking Ball is literally what has led me to invest hundreds of hours into Overwatch 1 and 2. Sure, he needs some balancing and some tweaks, but his design is one of the most unique and fun experiences I’ve had in not just Overwatch but all of gaming
There are the thoughts of every wrecking ball main
Brig is very interesting in her current state because on one hand she has problematic aspects in some of her abilities, but on the other hand she is a prime example of good hero design.
She has all low cool-down abilities that in isolation are not overpowered (with the exception of her ult), she has no immortality or get-out-of-jail-free cards, she has SO many potential uses for her Shield (the ability that provides her with all her mobility and protection, and is critical to the execution of her burst damage combo), she can do burst damage but it requires her to use all her CDs (including her escape ability), she is one of the only heroes in the game that simultaneously feels good to play with / against and still PERFECTLY fits her character lore in the way that she plays (she was advertised as the “bodyguard “ hero), and she can counter aggression from divers but only by manually denying them by landing her abilities directly on them at the right time (if she misses she is one of the easiest targets for a diver to kill).
However, she does have some problems as Spilo mentioned. Rally changes were very bad. Brig did not need any buffs. The changes were literally straight up buffs with no compensation, and it is currently a bit too good and easy to use. Personally, I don’t find the burst armour pack change very bad. 25hp burst is virtually unnoticeable compared to the absurd burst heals Bap and Kiriko can provide with their abilities, and I think it is fair with how high the general damage output has become as of recent (eg. Junkrat, Pharah, buffed tracer, or damage boosted hitscan heroes).
Overall, I think Brig has an amazing flow to her kit, easily one of the best of any heroes in the game. She is is a hero that can have a lot of impact on a game, but only if the person playing her is actually good. I also like how she does not hard-counter any heroes and is also not hard-countered BY any. Definitely has some imperfections in her design, but the positives FAR outweigh the negatives.
Rally stun imo is good. In theory, it is one of the best counters to NanoBlade. Bash, Stun + sleep. Had this happen a few times in my games. And it was great
@@nurikkulanbaev3628 Rally rework was a buff to Brig's boring styles of play and a nerf to her more proactive, aggressive styles of play. For me, it's a pretty big net nerf that I personally didn't enjoy. I use it, but I'd rather have the faster movement and better self-sustain back.
@@nurikkulanbaev3628Honestly I think the stun is fine. I don’t like how large her shield is though. I feel like the perfect balance would be her old ult but just keep the stun. Forget all the barrier enhancements and armour she gains.
@@braxbro6674I understand that you don’t enjoy using it, but I promise you it is not a nerf. Rally quickly became a top tier ult after the changes. Sure she may not be as tanky over time, but if you take advantage of the 750 hp shield you will find she is even more unkillable than she used to be with her old ult. People are far too aggressive with her new ult and forget to use her shield and they end up feeding when they really shouldn’t.
@@GetOffGenji Keep the stun and shield refresh, the shield refresh is also nice and I think feels good for Brig without feeling bad for the opponent. And then if she has movespeed she doesn't need the Sigma shield.
That ball segment made me think of this doom quote a lot, and man is it true.
“A great leader adapts to their team, not the other way around.”
About Kiriko's winrate. I think it's because of her playstyle. The optimal playstyle for Kiriko is to also take off angles and flanking since her kit enables her aggressive playstyle. This does require good timing and balancing her ability to support her team with heals and playing aggressive with off angles.
But a lot of players especially low ranks don't do this enough. This combines with heal botting as they don't weave in kunais between her heals and that her kunai is harder to use than ofuda. I can see why her winrate is low.
Same can be said to most supps, low rank supp are all either not doing dps when they can or dpsing way too much.
Kiriko is the lowest win rate support at every single rank excluding GM and even in GM she has below 50%, so there is clearly something fundamentally wrong with the character, it isn't a playstyle diff. You can have more success in masters ranked lobby playing Moira or LW, so why play Kiriko when she is so much harder?
For me personally, her primary fire has always felt really inconsistent, the high crit multiplier is kinda dumb on a support in the first place, but combine that with the small projectile, low body shot damage and the off-centre aim. It makes hitting headshots feel lucky rather than skilful.
àà@@tibisan3503
a
I don't think you really commenting on design, rather high-level balance.
For instance junk rat is, from a design perspective, a literally perfect character. Low barrier to entry, some reasonable level of skill expression, but a much lower ceiling than most heroes...
he's a hook for new players that also sees some time in competitive play. Easy to get into character thst is neither overpowered nor irrelevant. that's a chef's kiss design.
It seems to me when T500 players talk about balance and game design, they actually mean what’s fun for their own kind, and not for the other 90% percent of the playerbase.
@@ReadilyAvailibleChomper Nobody has fun when all a junkrat does is sit in the back and spam, even if he "misses" the shot it bounces twice after. Thats not good design, thats boring and rewards NOT hitting shots too.
Ramatra feels like a slithly different version of OW1 Orisa. The same barrier, the same projectile, Nemesis acts like a more brawly fortify, even vortex and pull are not too dissimilar. The big difference the empathis they put on Nemesis, where the rest of Ram's kit feel almost non existent at this point. I wish there was more work put into actually making base form feel like a complete hero with Nemesis being a more emergency/impact oriented ult, a bit how you use nade on Ana, rather than what essentially feel like a fortify with a cooler design.
Well said. He is my favorite hero but his design is frustrating. Skill expression is quite limited and the hero overall is way too limited. Even Rein can be more oppressive. Ramattra is the least oppressive hero in the game that you can easily ignore and dump damage if he is fool enough to run around in nemesis form. His staff doesn't even make sense. It has fairly high dps, way better than punch in close range but it's irrelevant for mid-long range outside of spamming corners. So they want this hero to poke in omnic phase but he can't due to multiple reasons, and then they want this hero to switch to nemesis form in close range but you shouldn't unless you need armor/block or pierce.
I think they should either make omnic form shittier and double down on nemesis form like Rein or they should just make him a bit different version of Sigma.
Rein option: Block gets buffed with different mechanics that gives him more flexibility and agency.
Sigma option: He loses mobility buff during nemesis, he loses block during nemesis but gets more armor bonus from transition + mega omnic form buff. Block and movement speed buff should be usable during ult though.
I firmly believe that they made moira for when there are two mercy mains on the same team
Genuinely laughed out loud
I dont believe mauga is entirely unbalanceable. I dont think his design will ever be fantastic but if they gave him the ability to crit through fortify again so he could at least be the counter pick to orisa i would happily take him as an addition to the game
I would be really interested in hearing him come up with hero designs from the bottom up. He has a ton of ideas on how stuff could be engaging and not busted and all that so it’d be cool to see what new concepts he could come up with
Personally I think what doesn't feel right with Ashe is that she doesn't really have a design, qnd therefore fit as a necessary or unic piece of the puzzle.
As she is, she's fine, well design while lacking a bit of weakness, but in general she's fun to play and not cheesy. But her whole design feels very arbitrary. Her abilities are not really integral to her character or really interesting in any way, they are just functional, really disposable imo. Ashe doesn't feel exiting as a design, because well, she doesn't really have a design. The only think that remotely qualifies her as a hero is her gun type, and even then it's not really out of the ordinary. It's not as defining to her identity as a "sniper" would, it's fun and allows her to have a niche but you could give that tool to any hero. Her kit feels more like placeholder for what you'd need for a hero like her to function : *get off me tool*, *arbitrary projectile to throw whenever you need*, ... than an actual cohesive idea and clearly fits in the overwatch headspace.
Compare this to a hero like Tracer.
All of tracer's abilities work together and are integral to her design. Sure her guntype sort of defined a range of effectiveness like Ashe's does, but it's the rest of her kit that really makes tracer tracer. Tracer don't use her abilities arbitrarily or to respond passively to a situation but it's directly link to who she is at all time. Recall wouldn't work without blinks, tracer as a hero wouldn't work without blinks, the difference between tracer with or without blink is the difference between tracer and reaper. Now do the same thing with Ashe. Would Ashe fundamentaly if you gave her a grapplin hook instead of coach gun, litterally anything instead of her dynamite. No, her abilities contribute in no way to her design, they are serviceable and make the hero better, but you don need them and they don't work together or feel integral to Ashe as a hero.
It doesn't help that her animations and physics are just goofy as f, which doesn't really fit her personality and overwatch as a game. Sure overwatch doesn't have very realistic physics, but it can generally be explained by sci-fi tech or is tied to the junkers which are goofy by nature. The way coach gun works just breaks suspension of disbelief and feels super out of place, both in her kit and in the general game of overwatch.
To put it simply, Ashe feels like a TF2 character put in overwatch. Very fun as you'd expect, but not matching the game's complexity or universe.
spilo always stickin up for us ballers
We ballin
Ballers rise up to praise daddy Spilo
Ballers need all the help they can get in this economy 😔
Mercy? Niche appeal? When she's one of the most popular heroes in the game and has one of the largest, most vocal communities of any character in overwatch? How?
I feel like the only hero that’s been released in a good state in OW2, outside of power level, is JQ. She is very fun to play, and I don’t have any problems playing against her. The only hero that probably doesn’t like playing against her is like Winston maybe. Her entire kit just is designed pretty well imo. She was pretty bad at launch, but just some number tweaks made her much stronger, and I feel like she’s in a decent spot rn, maybe some very tiny buffs is all
As both a queen and winston main I actually think they have a relatively even matchup. Knife can absolutely ruin your day but it's not too hard to avoid if you are actively thinking about it and queen struggles to do anything about a winston in the backline (Similar to zar/sig)
@@imagecko9997true, if you know how to play around her well, she’s not too much of a problem
As a Winston main, I used to get rolled by JQ every game. Then I got better. She’s simply a well designed hero. Can’t say the same for hog though. His ult is a guaranteed kill no matter what you do.
@@abudgie6909you can bubble and then jump away right? Just jump in the direction away from him, so he can only blast you farther away
Lucio is literally the only reason I still play this game, once I moved to pc and started playing lucio it just stuck with me, I’ve always loved movement in games, and my movement in games has always been phenomenal, it’s my best quality when it comes to my skill in games, nothing like having people compliment you for skilfully dunking on them instead of raging and calling you shit because your character is ass to play against, I just wish they’d stop over designing maps because it feels like a nerf to him when there’s constant map geometry blocking you and having to find the perfect way to navigate it, it just feels ass
What scales did you use to judge and how important was each one?
Fun to play?
Fun to play against?
Counterplay?
Skill expression?
Uniqueness?
Interactivity?
Gameplay design
Zen is insanely easier in OW2 than early ow1 when he was actually a skill based character.
- +75 hp
- kick cc
- no need to worry about offtank pressure
-Access to broken support peel abilities like suzu, pull and immortality
- Discord primarily just shoved on single tank and isn’t moved around much
-No need to actually win duels with flankers when you have insane peel from second support
- Much more space to work with in OW2 makes positioning much easier
How are doom and queen not 1 and 2? They gain HP resources by landing abilities that require mechanics. They're the ultimate peak and valley heroes. You can throw a match terribly or carry it on your back.
pretty sure his main issue with doom is that he has a lot of cc in his kit
@@Crimpleyy Without ult he has one cc ability. Ball without ult has 2 and they're much less telegraphed and easier to land yet he puts ball higher.
@@jkvltra804 yeah, I guess the main issue is that his ONE cc gets spammed a shit ton and sometimes doomfist can just become a punchbot. plus block is kind of clunky and doesn't feel great to use. I think doomfist was a little bit low but those are definitely some issues. Plus Ball doesn't have hard CC, ( slam doesn't stun you at all it only knocks you up ). Punch is hard CC which can feel annoying for enemy tanks especially
Doom has a lot of bugs, ult isn’t great, very CC heavy, and is either really good or really bad a lot of times. Queen is really good, but she doesn’t have the same level of choice with what she does that a tracer or genji or Lucio or Winston, mostly because she just doesn’t have as much mobility. She has a lot of great aspects, nothing really bad about her at all. Just the way you play her doesn’t differ very much, outside of her ult usage
Doom actually doesn’t fit into ow period .
i know the idea behind annihilation isnt great but its just so fun to use for me
It feels so powerful. Like a 5 man shatter. Except you can get elims lol
Its good that it replenishes armour, but the fact that the only counterplay is to disengage means that its OP in overtimes. It should have a fixed time
It does, I think it's like 20 seconds but might be a little longer@@nurikkulanbaev3628
@@nurikkulanbaev3628it used to last forever as long as you deal damage
@nurikkulanbaev3628 it does, 20 seconds
That speech you gave about playing Genji and that's all it took to make you an Overwatch player? That was what Ana was for me back in early 2017 - and I know many others can say the same. Thanks for having a nuanced take on her.
They should replace phara's big jump with a second set of jet engines which you can use to propel yourself forward using fuel just like the regular ones.
1:22 of all the characters you chose to name, you picked the one character i have refused to play. only you have the power to reject the cancer
Never had a hard time playing with a ball. Thats a crazy statement. Im diamond/plat and the amount of balls i see that never come out of ball form is insane. If theres a ball on my team there is a 50% chance that guy is doing 3k dmg per 10
Yeah thats how you play ball
Hear me out: To change Zen, give discord less damage boost and give it a healing suppression, as opposed to blocking, effect to account for that.
The fact that half the tanks are in the top 3 tiers and only two supports says a lot about the state of the game, because most people HATE tank and support is the most played role despite this.
Hi Spilo! I dig the content and the vod reviews you upload on the second channel are a godsend. If I can be honest though, I think this take here is absurd: 14:52. I've been agreeing with the vast majority of your takes on this game, namely your focus on dynamics, so why place reinhardt in A tier of all things? All of my experience when it comes down to Rein is that he slows down the game massively by being able to to always shield, his all-in or all-out style is the exact opposite of dynamic as well. All of his abilities are mutually exclusive, as in if you're fire-striking you're not charging, if you're shielding you're not swinging etc. I also find that he needs constant healing and support, meaning that he is not only non-dynamic, but requires everyone around him to become non-dynamic as well, he vacuums up fun with the best of them. Keep in mind that I was a rein main in OW1, I have all the reason in the world to be nostalgic about this hero but it just doesn't hold up when actually looking at his design.
Surprisingly enough, this would not be my hot take. Genji being S tier is seemingly a unanimous opinion, but his reliance on his ult for value is so extreme versus his base kit that you sorta just watch him blade into your team helplessly very often. Again, all in or all out. He's definitely a C or even a D tier pick for me. The "highs" you get from Genji are mostly artificially given to you by the game because of the difference in power that I mentioned before. Also, you mentioned power block being a badly designed ability, so why is deflect any different? They are both designed in a way that punishes you for interacting with them, something that doesn't strike me as dynamic.
I disagree with the mercy personally. I'm not a mercy player at all, she's like one of the like 6 heros I don't play. But it takes good character design to have a non shooting character in an fps game while having some of the most consistent pick rates in ow in general
she has one of the most consistent pick rates because of the fact that shes a non shooting character and the fact that the people who play her are extremely dedicated
@@saylucki ok... that doesn't take away from my point tho
weird to open with genji S tier for appeal (true) then mercy D tier for 'niche' appeal (not true). let me be clear, you can definitely make an argument for mercy being C or D for design just because of the skill gap complicating the game's health. but he didnt make that claim, he basically admitted to being biased and not accounting for it
I mean this is a subjective list so...
I do think mercy should be abit higher though
I've always wanted this kind of list
idk i enjoy using Pharah and not bothered about going against one. My main issue with using her....is by the time i get 2-3 quick picks with her, enemy team IMMEDIATELY hard swap most of their team just to counter me. I think out of the whole roster, she has the most counters against her at any given time. As much as i love using the character, its just too much when the whole enemy team swaps just to counter you as a Pharah.
The amount of hate you get as Pharah is so strange to me. I’ve seen cracked Widows force a Winston and Sombra.
But as Pharah, even if I’m doing so mid like 5/4 I’ll get DVA, Ashe, Soldier, Illari, Baptiste. This just happened to me btw. In QP too lol. And every fight I’ll have at least three people focus me. I still won because if three people focus you focus on not dying and distracting and your team will clean up.
I think Pharah is one of the very best at playing into her counters to the point I feel she’s secretly OP but mostly everyone picks Pharah, immediate counter swaps, they switch off.
If you watch YNZA you can see what he does. Stay outside of hitscan’s effective range, switch up angles constantly, surprise flanks where you get very close to the hitscan, and holy moly for the love of god COVER. Watching Pharah’s fly around in the open sky completely forgetting fundamentals hurts my soul.
Edit: Yeah, it’s really not that fun for you to get hard focus by the whole team every fight though lol.
coming from tf2 i just really dont like pharah
she just doesnt feel like she has a good skill floor or ceiling, and the her shift is one of the worst examples of movement being diluted ever imo
I think Pharah is cool in concept but my issue with her is that I HAVE to swap or I literally can't even interact with her. Of course someone isn't going to stay on reaper, what do you expect? "Yeah sure man just fire rockets into me and my team for free and no one can even touch you, have fun bro!" lmao
@@jkvltra804 It’s definitely hard but as someone who doesn’t believe in counterpicking there’s a lot you can do. It’s sort of like playing against a Widow where you realize okay certain parts of the map are now danger zones and you kite them and make them get no value and focus their teammates.
I’ll admit I don’t even know how to counter a really good Pharah but I’ve seen maybe 3 good Pharahs in my 1000+ hours.
Easier said than done of course.
@@DJWolfHouse I can know certain parts of the map are dangerous and if Im on tracer or whatever I can just avoid her but that's not going to stop her from spamming out my tank and/or zoning a point. Pharah is the only thing that makes me swap, I'll play tracer into torb or sym because I can still interact with them, even widow I can get on top of if I take the right routes. Pharah is just in the sky out of my range unless I swap.
There is no way I commented this in yesterday's video and he actually made it already.
The most productive content creator in the Overwatch space.
Spilo diff
For Kiriko I do not like how she is able to use her teleport so freely, she basically never has to be in cover to use it even when dueling enemies far from her team. I think the animation should be slightly longer, enough to almost force her to suzu+teleport to have a guaranteed exit without dying.
I also dislike the headshot multiplier and think that if it were removed the reload speed could in turn be decreased so you can reload between ofuda throws.
Id argue that kiriko design got worse with the recent healing buffs, which clouds her aggro identity. But i also argue her design can be high tier if she moves more towards zenyatta's glass cannon design with more fluid cooldowns that trades heal volume for explosive offensive potential.
I dont like widow too too much, but I've gotta say. Glass cannons are EPIC. I love tracer. I love that another strong hero has the below 200 hp weakness for some damn good strengths. Imo she could've kept her falloff and maybe go 150 health cause 175 is weird. But imo her head hitbox would wanna be a tiny bit smaller
As someone who literally has considered quitting Overwatch because of how much I hate mercy, I think she's a fantastic hero in theory. A very low skill introductory character with a clear niche is great, but the way she has been tuned is just absolutely beyond moronic.
give mercy the crusaders crossbow
The problem with mercy is how she deviates from tf2 medic other than her movement. Tf2 medic is a pocket style character built with a lot of mechanics to make pocketing much less efficient than juggling his team but he lacks the movement mercy has. Mercy is a character whos movement allows for what medic would want to do to an absurd degree but her tools are less effective if you don't pocket a dps hard. The ways they enable their teams are fundimentally opposed
Skip to all chapters to get the quintessential "UM!" experience
Please do this again in a year
Honestly: Sojourn’s Rail doing 100 bodyshot, 150 headshot could still be fine, just drop the +30/+45 for the love of god, she does not need it.
With mercy damage boost that would become 195 headshot, same as Ashe, while still allowing Nano or Widow combos for big skill required team shredding,
Also THANK YOU. I’ve been thinking since the Sombra rework that the core aspect to Mei’s kit that I would want to see updated is Ice Block. It’s just not interesting to use, play against or play with as an ally. Ice Wall may be the most infuriating part of Mei’s kit, but Ice Block is the least interactive part of it. If Mei is in the next set of hero rework submissions, I’ve been cooking a cute little replacement.
On the Wrecking Ball discussion, I def think that a big part of it is community perception/willingness to learn how to play with a Ball in the first place. I cannot tell you the amount of people I've spoken to in metal ranks who just straight up refuse to try to play with/around a Ball/Doom on their team. It's wild.
Love it when the DPS player says they need a barrier to stay alive
@@abudgie6909 My personal favorite I've heard is Supports saying they wouldn’t heal their own tank if they're own Ball/Doom because the tank player is apparently 'Playing a different game then everyone else.' It's wild lol.
I feel like Lifeweaver is most definitely fixable. And right now, he’s the most fun he’s been so far.
I agree that his damage is actually a bit too high, and I'd rather not have yet another support who can also deal a lot of damage like Bap, Moira, Zen, and Illari. The projectile speed buff did wonders for LW's thorn volley feeling good to use - great even, but the damage is a bit much. So just tone down the damage numbers a bit, and we're good there. Maybe go from 6 to 5.5 per thorn or something like that. Thorn Volley shouldn’t feel like it can compete with Tracer’s guns that also deal 6 per shot, y’know?
One way to fix how heal-botty LW can sometimes feel is to reduce his ammo count even further with Healing Blossoms. Go from 16 to 14, or something like that. Get rid of the movement speed penalty when you hold the blossom for longer than a second though. Why is that even there? Though I will admit, with how they buffed the projectile speed of Thorn Volley, I feel like I’m not heal-botting as much nowadays, because LW can most definitely actually secure kills and still get value out of his Thorn Volley by holding angles and corners with it. Not to mention it’s great for breaking shields. So, I feel like having 14 Heal Blossoms is comfortable enough to work with.
I think there needs to be more emphasis on his Petal Platform being used as a playmaking tool for himself or moreover teammates to use, rather than as a purely defensive reactionary ability. Because now it's more or less just a way for Lifeweaver to escape, which is fine, but there needs to be something else to it to give LW players the decision to make: "oh, should I save the petal platform for myself or to possibly save someone from a Zarya/Rein Ult, for instance. Or, should I leave my Petal Platform there for my teammate or even myself to take advantage of and use in advance of the team fight happening?" Other than giving Cassidy's High Noon and 76’s Visor high ground to work with, most other heroes can't really use Petal Platform that well. They just go up to it, look at it, go on it, and then proceed to soon jump off when they realize there's not much they can really do from that angle and high ground. Not to mention that they are still pretty vulnerable up there, staying in one spot for too long usually means someone will eventually snipe you out of there. Fortunately, I think Blizzard already gave us an idea on how to make Petal Platform more appealing for LW's teammates to use more often. In the Trials of Sanctuary mode, one of the upgrades you could get with LW made it so that Petal Platform gave any hero standing on it a boost in fire-rate. I think this is something they could add to Petal Platform proper and try out, while also giving LW more reasons than just purely defensive/reactionary ones to remember to use Petal Platform and make more active plays with it, along with giving his teammates incentive to get on it other than just reach high ground that they can’t normally reach quickly.
In regards to Life Grip, I think it's fine as it is. It’s satisfying to save teammates from their bad plays and to save them from certain death, too. No change needed.
Rejuvenating Dash, I feel like should be nerfed in regards to the amount of HP it heals (50 is a lot for such a short cooldown that also offers LW mobility, but 25 like before is too little, so some middle ground can definitely be found here), but not without taking a look at the support passive first. Because the support passive coupled with Rejuvenating Dash can make him pretty tanky, especially when he already has 225 HP, with 50 of it being shield HP. But I feel as though they gave him these things because they are satisfied with how his hitbox is like. So, ignoring the suggestion of making his hitbox smaller, they could look at Rejuvenating Dash, but only after they look at the support passive as a whole.
With Tree of Life, I think it's fine for the most part; I just think it's kinda boring. I've heard people propose that it should cause a pulse that boops enemies out from its radius when it erupts from the ground and also when it emits a heal pulse with a lighter boop, and honestly I'm down with that.
Hanzo take: He is fun for low skill level players. When I started playing this game, I almost became a hanzo main and got my first potg is on him. Even tho my brain was parallel with the game and my aim was trash, he was still fun to play without ruining the enemy team's experience. I to this day remember a game of nepal, where (in hindsight) I was throwing, but it was really fun, cuz in spawn I made a plan: When the game starts, go in main, wallclimb to high ground, and shoot the enemy from the off angle, while my team runs down main. Because of my aim, I have never died once in that submap, as i did not hit a single shot until the end (where I logged the enemy ashe solely by luck), but I felt really good after that game.
Finally someone breaks out of the recency biase of "nerf Ana" spam.
The reason why Anti-nade feels bad right now is because it's the only remaining tool that can consistently punish a tank feeding. Tanks are just so used to be absolutely unkillable if remotely pocketed that they don't even try to pretend they know the fundamentals of the game. If you use cover effectively, track enemy cool-downs, have an escape plan to your pressure, time your engagement with your team, engage in the right dual rather, bait dangerous enemy cool-downs, ... not only will you never die to a nade but you will actually be much more helpful in the tank role.
But since most tank nowadays think that to run alone past a choke in the middle of the enemy team trying to 1v4, without paying any attention to which heroes are on the enemy team and if they have cool-down without using cover or having any escape plan is what they are supposed to do, because they always get away with it when there isn't an Ana in the enemy team, people prefer complaining about the only thing teaching them not to feed than to actually get better at the game.
TBH for Nade to be a more reasonable tool, they definitely need to nerf the global amount of healing in the game RN. It's normal for players that learned that even while feeding their supports can keep them alive, something like nade would feel unfair. This of course come with lowering the spam damage in the game so there is still a balance. There is definitely a way to have a still balanced and fun game without having 80HPS from the two supports.
blud in chat really compared sleep dart to hack 💀
I disagree with the fact that Soldier 76 is bad design i think it was very intentional that they made him simple and this way. Its because he creates an easy entry point for people who come from fps and are not familiar with MOBA type shooters, which in my oppinion constitutes good design, because he has a clear purpose and he serves it well.
The bottom two rows are also the problematic "counterswaps". These are the heroes that people swap to after one fight. Devs should not cater to playstyles that discourage proactive gameplay with the press of a button. The skill required to outplay the abilities of the bottom two rows is FAR greater than the skill required to play those heroes.
I was playing some matches with my 5 stack last night. We raged and complained when losing matches against Hog, Sombra, Junkrat, Lifeweaver, Moira (and other bottom tier heroes). They counterswapped after a single fight. We didn't feel like swapping our comp. It's QP, we want to enjoy our heroes.
Guess what happened when we lost our match against a Monkey Lucio Genji comp. "Wow they were really good" "GGWP" "well done Monkey". Heroes in the top 3 rows don't feel cheap or corny. You respect their gameplay and can learn from your mistakes.
Some of the bottom rows are salvageable. I know Blizzard will never delete heroes, but honestly how much healthier would the game be if Roadhog, Moira, and other major offenders weren't Overwatch? How much better would the game be for our mental health? And how much more would we be encouraged to improve our fundamentals?
How would you fix Illari Spilo? I agree that she gets less fun the more you play her and her lore is actually really good so I wish they would make her more engaging and add more choice.
mauga shouldve been a melee character. keep everything in his kit but replace right click with a personal shield and give his primary fire a shark tooth axe.
Ramattra is my favorite hero and it's sad to see him really bad. The hero is very limited. I totally agree with you. He has good potential though. They should either lean on Rein archetype or Sigma archetype with him. If we are going for Rein archetype, block needs changes and hero needs mobility desperately. Something like overrun, charge or limited jump whatever and then block needs have counterplay against cc and possibly teamplay benefits. If we are gonna lean on Sigma archetype then omnic form needs major buffs, block and movement speed buff needs to go, give him little more armor in nemesis transition. Keep the block only for his ultimate. So he will have a competitive poke war and then when things get spicy, instead of Sigma's rock and suck, he gets armor bonus and punch people. For this, his staff damage needs a nerf but his accuracy needs a megabuff, ammo capacity also needs buff and then he needs more barrier.
I disagree about junkrat. I dont think his spammy nature is terrible design, i think lots of games have a character like this and its fine. But they issue is his largish hitbox and his lack of horozontal movement. This forces him into a playstyle where he cant actually play in a way that lets him takes risks, and instead encourages the player to sit back and spam nades down a choke. But i think he could work, if his fire rate was lowered and his movement was buffed.
Brig rally update was so stupid.
One thing about Sigma that I noticed recently with the Quick Play: Hacked is that he is one of the slowest characters in the game. Normally characters with no mobility like Zarya or Ana either excel in the back line or are aggressors and push into the enemy team. Sigma doesn’t do either as well as other heroes. His projectiles don’t have enough range and speed to poke long range. He can use his shield or grasp to push, but these abilities are easily counter-able and not being able to cancel grasp or have an escape tool to create a window of relief makes playing Sigma a little frustrating when playing against other heroes like Ramattra. The game is going to speed up, and I think Sigma would be glossed over for the more mobile tanks.
Damn don’t tell the Mercy Mafia
With the brig ult rework, I think, that they should have just increased it's charge rate and called it a day.
I think rein's biggest fault, if you can even call it a fault, is that hes so perfectly designed to the point all his faults come from other unhealthy interactions in the game and 5v5. In OW1, he had arguably the best tank synergies in th game and the rush playstyle back then felt fair for both sides where I personally feel it was the best meta for the averge overwatch player(Ik lots of you love dive but its at it's best at high elo, not your metal ranks. Removing that second tank and making him a solo tank drops his score cause hes so reliant on other tanks and the way tanks are, he sucks due to other tanks being poorly designed and too strong inherently with their more modern kits.
Maybe someone here can explain this to me because I've always been confused by it: The winrates on Overbuff. Brig has a 53% win rate in comp and a 1.79% pick rate. Someone like Ana has a high pick rate at 8% but 48% win rate. A lot of people would argue Ana is the better character to climb with, but brig has the higher win rate. Is Brig being undersold and actually pretty good? Or does Ana just have a lower win rate because more people play her so it's easier for the numbers to inflate?
Niche heroes most often, or just less popular
Brig is picked more so in ideal scenarios whereas ana is picked whenever. I have like 70% winrate on torb for example but I almost never play him and when I do it's in the most ideal situation ie map/point/comp but if I one tricked torb i'd probably have a negative winrate with him.
Brig obviously not as niche as torb but you get the idea
I honestly think nano should no longer heal and give speed again like it used to
calling it broken because of "beyblade meta" is clearly very dumb, definitely feels like something that only worked because the game was new
Hey Spilo big fan- about the Ana placement, I thought we weren’t talking about numbers? But the overall design and dynamics in a characters kit. Her range gives her positioning dynamic, nade offensive/defensive (even if the time anti’d on tanks is too much) and sleep dart similar. Are the problem you have with her fundamental to her design or are her numbers just too pushed?
Balance inevitably has to play a factor. One good balance patch could fix sojourn’s issues, but dmg boost oneshot and awkward primary fire spread are what we have to base it off, so nade cooldown and the interplay between nade and support passive is also fair play.
Reins design enables annoying heroes like Mei and Junkrat
Winston enables more fair heroes like Tracer and Genji
Argument finished
Junkrat? Also mei is good
Illaris gun is one of the coolest weapons overwatch has ever seen. It is powered by a STAR and wielded by a walking fusion reactor. It is one of the most badass rifles ever, it even doubles as a sword. Yet it is the worst sounding weapon in the game, it’s just so disappointing.
Idk your opinion is just wrong her weapon sounds great
@@jordensimxge3798 just no
@@calebmitchell-nc1ewyes stop arguing youre wrong and thats the true
@@jordensimxge3798 agree to disagree
Her visual and lore design is very good, but gameplay loop is very stale, boring and uninteractive since she's pretty much immortal with the turret up. Not the best hero design.
I'm surprised about DVa, but once I hear your reasoning I'm not sure if I disagree or not. I would have expected you to put her higher. There's so much choice and decisions to make as DVa. That's what makes her so fun for me. And her style of tanking is unique, I know she's a dive tank, but she's noticeably different from Winston and Doomfist. Diving is only one aspect of her style of play. And the flow of cycling from high cooldowns to low cooldowns, and engaging and disengaging, is impactful on the choice and decision-making. Where do I go and when do I go are two decisions that have a high degree of freedom and choice, and room for optimisation.
I know she's never really been a feature in pro play, apart from a few isolated niche situations. And I guess that ties into your argument of her having less of a place in OW2. Like it's significant that she was in 90% of pro metas in OW1 and like 2-3% in OW2. I'm not sure why this is, I'm not big brained enough.
I'm not sure any other tank has more room for decision-making to impact their effectiveness (though this point is controversial and I'm not super sure about it). Except maybe Winston. We all know it's easy to have a feeding DVa and have a carrying Dva, and I don't think the difference between the two is mechanics. Apart from Winston, what other tanks are so unforgiving for decision-making? Tanks like Reinhardt, Ramattra, JQ, there's still skill expression in decision-making but they're also more forgiving.
Actually it's not so bad since I got further into the tier list :)
thank you Spilo for filling me up with your wisdom
I wanted to argue about Mercy, as a no aim player, but after a bit of thought I realized I can't really. Usually best playstyle is quite borring for mercy player (hiding behind a wall and blue beam) and annoying for enemies. Rez is too risky and too potentially powerful. Most fun part of her kit (movement) is discouraged. I wish her design was better
She could've been higher imo had they not forced her into the pocket playstyle. It's genuinely the worst playstyle in the game and it + rez don't mesh well together with her fun movement.
How about this rammatra rework: you can go between staff and nemesis form at ANY time, staff form doesn’t reload when swapping back and forth, nemesis form has less speed by a bit, no longer grants armor, just converts some of your current health to armor. Shield has a shorter cooldown, block has less damage resist but has a little less movement speed penalty. This should make the character much more fluid, let you go between forms whenever you want, so if you need poke you can do that, if you need brawl you can do that. And it makes it so leaving nemesis form early doesn’t feel so bad. His ult could maybe also have a different effect in staff form, like much more range but less damage , and you can go between them. This way it truly feels more like a form, as in a major trade off between each one, and not just “now I can do stuff” in nemesis form. His primary grin could also have a faster rate of fire or faster projectile speed
Been watching your content more recently. It's really good 🙏🏽
Tbh i see 2 options for kiri.
She becomes a dps or stays a support.
Dps. Swift step is free movement, 10 sec cooldown. Moves through 1 wall max. Closest wall only. 25 m distance.
Suzu self cleanse (use while stunned) keep momentum up basically.
Offuda short range snare/trap.
Kunai 60 w 2.5x
Higher velocity.
Damage falloff starting at 25 meters
*Still 2 tap widow max range, always*
Support.
Swift step heals kiriko+ 1 sec cooldown
Suzu does 0 healing + 10 for cleanse
Give kiriko offence utility outside of kunais. Aka #KeepKikosBoop and buff it.
Rest of suzu is in a good state but personally .75 invulnerability not .65
^ reduce self suzus and try use earlier in fight to help engage. Can still cleanse and all. Risk rewards.
Same logic as anna nade.
*Bell = soft cc*
Offuda, blue papers are more aoe a s slower(8mps)
Kunai, slow the rate of fire (gives so much ult charge rn + body shot dmg)
Tbh i like the 3x multiplier. I know unpopular but t2k with new kunai is quicker. I dont like that.
Dmg fall off still but faster velocity. To me this just seems right. Reward precision and less spam. Smaller hit box too. (Still good cqb*possible buff* worse at range)
And either way, please make wall climb feel more *consistent* . One way is to remove the bunny hope that the game tries *if* wall climbed/ on bunny hope refresh wall climb.
(If you ever wall climbed and it disconnected, then u hit the ground and couldn't climb for a second *above* has happened and its infuriating as you effectively got to climb 3 times.
If Rein wasn’t allowed in the Holy Grail category because of Winston, I don’t think Genji should be there either because of Tracer. All of them are of great character design, but since Tracer edges out over Genji, he should get the same downgrade treatment
Genji has way more depth than rein tho
Glad to see Echo and Queen so high, they're the only reason I still play as much of this game as I do.
I maintain that my favorite Brig state (as a Brig player) was season 1. Repair packs didn't need to be buffed, Rally didn't need the rework it got, and it was before they started messing with stuff like her whipshot damage.
Old Rally was Reeeaaallly bad tho. Atleast if you compared it to all the other stuff in OW2 it was just not great. They could've buffed it instead of reworking it but I personally love her new ult a lot.
@@Oguh608 It wasn't bad at all. It made her really hard to kill and she could, ironically, take space easier using old rally. It was especially good when they buffed the charge rate by 15% because she was suddenly rallying every other fight.
I had an idea for Widowmaker just now. Part of my inspiration for it is from Valorant, but. What if, instead of her always having the sniper rifle... Her ult becomes the sniper mode, maybe with a bit of a faster charge rate if it's a timed ult. And if it's not timed, say like Venture, she gets a certain amount of shots. As for how she'd work outside of the ult, simple, make a kit around her SMG. Buff the damage a bit, rework venom mine into something else. I was thinking a venom grenade, but then it's kind of the same as Ash dynamite. Though maybe, like Mauga, you could give her a damage buff against poisoned targets. And for the grapple... Honestly, keep it. It's a good an inocuous movement tool that would serve her well.
I also had an idea for Hanzo, not as much though. Maybe, what about... Decreasing his damage by a lot, say maybe a two-tap to the head. But the trade off is a big fire rate buff, though maybe not as much as storm arrow. Keep recon arrow, wall climb. Not sure what to do with storm arrow in this case, or the ult. But, these were just my thoughts, anyone's free to critique them! Personally I like my Widowmaker concept. It makes her more engaging and less isolated from fights and not just the, 'Oh I just got randomly one-shot cool' character. Turning the sniper into her ult also means she'd have a voice line, so you have a warning of, 'hey, she's in sniper mode. Hide.' Maybe you could even keep the walls with her sniper mode, but maybe just for her rather than team-wide? I'm not sure.
echo in A tier is diabolical
Echo being a tank buster with so much mobility I think is a problem
I think Moira is an okay character design. She's the classic "lifesteal" archetype. She's also the only support that doesn't have any utility - she's just straight up a high dmg + healing character. That makes her unique which is good for the game. She also has probably the highest survivability out of any support, which makes her a great pick for someone who's getting dived and can't seem to stay alive. All in all, I think she rounds out the support category very well and she would be missed if she was removed
Well, now it's a dva meta and it is extremely cancer so hold that
i made that tierlist at the beginning on reddit I got fuckn cooked
somewhere in the first half of the video i thought that this man was just very biased towards dive heroes, so is just every hero without massive mobility options bad by design? Then he got to rein and sigma and i was like wait this man is cooking
what i don't agree is with this man in the chat saying "ram bastion mauga are the same hero", bastion and mauga i can see but ram? How so? his omnic form does only a fraction of the damage these two do point blank and is best for mid-long range poking or tracking someone in the vortex, his nemesis form is the "up close and personal" option that does, yet again, only a third of bastions dps in sentry mode. Besides, it is good for chasing people down since you get a slight movespeed boost, while bastion can either move slow or slower (aka cannot chase anyone). Ram's ultimate is a little bland and uncharacteristic for tank ults since it just pumps out damage if you're close to someone instead of providing area denial or cc for example, and that is something that's not very good by design. Still, i would place him a tier or two higher.
When Spilo says Ram is the same as Bastion and Mauga, he's referring to their over-reliance on a single, extremely powerful cooldown that turns them into an unstoppable monster for a short duration. Even if Nemesis doesn't do that much damage, it's an incredibly strong ability that makes his kit extremely centralized. However, when he's not in Nemesis, he doesn't really do much.
It causes a bunch of issues, from balancing being a nightmare due to stance being over-centralized, to an extremely linear playstyle since he can't really do anything other than press the Nemesis button.
@@blazefactor6849 Oh, when you put it that way yeah, it's true
I think spilo did say this about nemesis form being the best offensive and defensive tool at the same time in his tank rework video, and honestly the 100 armor change in omnic form helped at least a bit. But from a gameplay perspective, sentry form and nemesis form act quite differently, ram wants to get through the tank and to other targets most of the time and his pierce helps with that, but bastion can just shoot whoever is the most exposed and since he has a lot of dps, shooting the tank is quite viable too. That's what I was going for with the differences, but I agree with the over reliance on one singular cooldown.
I'm not sure how I'd go about this honestly, like how to make omnic form better defensively for example. Although, block in nemesis is already significantly weaker since the damage reduction is now capped at 50%.
@@prismaticpaul Honestly, if you wanted to shift the power around, it'd be pretty simple. Block is the biggest issue with Nemesis, so I'd probably put it on a resource. That way, it's something you can't just hold, which forces you to be way more active. Beyond that, you'd want to A. buff his shield (cooldown or health, either way works), and B. make his primary fire actually useful in neutral (boost the projectile speed significantly, reduce the damage a bit).
The range alone gives omnic form more defensive utility. You don't have to play super far up all the time, you can find value by taking an angle like Sigma until you want to utilize nemesis to take an aggressive position. Giving him a more reliable gun and shield would make his poking ability way better, and the block nerf would make it harder to purely turtle while also making sure he can't turtle in his ult as much.
Hey man, I mainly consume your content by listening - only occasionally gotchu glancing at the screen. Do you you mind saying the name of the hero that you're talking about? You do sometimes but I have to do a lot of guessing.
Not sure what you're discussing here, but it is clearly not hero design - but rather current meta, hero balance and community love towards characters.
"No one wants to play with/against Pharah. No one likes playing Pharah" = bad design.
"Genji is fun to play and his appeal got many people into the game" = good design.
In my opinion, hero design means abilities and guns - and counterplay to them.
What's the counterplay to Genji deflecting a Widowmaker's shot to my head? Or him dashing into me, doing 180 to the head, dashing out after? Clearly some issues there because he has same exact issues Widowmaker does.
What's the counterplay to a good Tracer? - there is none, because she can undo any mistake at demand - is this really good design, to be at mercy of a Tracer making a mistake?
Imagine if everyone had an aimbot, perfect accuracy and played perfectly - what would happen, what characters would be broken? That's how you identify bad design heroes - heroes with no counterplay.
But hey guys, clearly Pharah (the one true projectile hero in the game) that gets abused by hitscan and the fact that other heroes above do better job than she does, is bad design.
Totally, dude.
Mercy straight up doesn't interact with a lot of the game. My support friend called it "she plays her own minigame". I get that they want to appeal to players that normally won't play a FPS. But that's just wildly bad design. She gets to dip out of something like aiming. And by doing so creates one of the most aim intensive situations in the game. Resulting in a lot of frustration when that same kind of player can't perform when playing against her. And now they can't do anything about it since so many people lean on that exact flawed design. Just really short sighted.
You are braindead
They add a character like Ramattra who, for all intents and purposes, is *THE FINAL BOSS* (the guy has a transformation for god's sake) and the DIDN'T GIVE HIM A COMMAND GRAB. BRO instead of block let me grab Ana as a human shield and throw her into my team LOL
I’ve never enjoyed listening to 2 hours of ow talk like this. Nice work good insights.
To me tanks and supports have complained about Ana for ages in OW1. It was generally muted. Ana is just one CC spammer in a sea of CC in OW1. OW2 shes the only strong CC remaining outside of tank because she wasn't adjusted into OW2. She is the only one left to get attention.
The introduction of more non-shield tanks really shows how detrimental it is to play such tanks as hog/dva in OW1 when Ana exists. How Anas existence really solidifies the desire for shielding in OW1.
I hate ashe so much, constant far range pressure with counters to every threat against her (boop away dives, AOE corners) sure you can focus cooldown cycles but you have to waste one of your own to bait hers then take advantage on retake. a theoretically smart rockpaperscissors but awful to play against if your team isn't coordinated
Sombra wrecks Ashe
What do you play?
Let them haters know. I understand the issues with Ana, and I play Doom so I know how it feels to have a character that spells death as soon as you make a minor mistake, but she's one of the most satisfying characters to play as and with. When you reach flow, it's like you're taking decisions every second, being proactive and impactful with every move. And having a good Ana teammate when you're playing a flanker feels like you're getting healed out of nowhere, and are constantly able to extend your pressure without needing to retreat. And she's not even impossible to deal with if you have a flanker, she's just really strong when nobody's pressuring her.
Ana is very well designed, there are just some pain points that come with the single tank format. Anti feels a little too oppressive, but fundamentally ana is one of the gold standard heroes in terms of game design.
I'd love for LW to be more engaging.
I was thinking they could change the way Petal Platform works, like making it similar to Sigma's shield or Pylon where you can recall it and re-place it on a short CD (maybe 4 sec). That way he can actually make his entire team more mobile. Too often someone steps on it and immediately gets off wasting a 12 sec CD ability.
In exchange they should nerf the petal's health to like 200 and also have the destroyed CD be maybe 12 seconds, so enemies can still track its CD.
His dash could also be reduced back to 25 healing.
I like his damage but it is a bit goofy how easy it is to beam down reapers at close range.
Life Grip is alright, upping the CD again was definitely the right call.
Tree could be changed and i wouldn't care, it's just meh.
Most people are rating based on stats and balanced while forgetting about the main point...
Hey Spilo Big fan again- would love one of these but for maps!
Could not agree more with what you’ve said about sojourn, been saying the same thing for ages
I have to mildly disagree about Ana I feel specifically anti in how it functions is broken when so many things that just weren’t a thing in overwatch one benefit Ana specially so much. She was one of the only supports who couldn’t reliably heal herself, anti with one less tank specifically who can eat or predict the nade like a zarya or dva or sigma, the game has shifted much more into an fps direction so killing power is much more important than just having more resources, and generally with the state of dps in my opinion as a support player supports functionally just are better easier dps characters with healing built in. All of these factors lead to anti being all the more necessary and I don’t know if it’s just me or console specifically but it just feels really easy to land at least on specific characters for the value it gets I essentially look at someone with a I think ten second cooldown and it usually confirms a kill. I feel a lot players love Ana specifically because while she is skillful and she isn’t built to heal bot, right now in the state of the game she’s a character who just feels like she gets so much more value so much easier than she probably should in one specific aspect of her kit that can honestly be worked around.
I don't think the Hanzo take is controversial, I VERY much agree. If you take away his one-shot or his long range viability he becomes a tank buster, if you take away his close range viability then he's more vulnerable than Zen but without the super long range viability Widow has.
Tankbuster Hanzo is absolute skillfloor if Hanzo's base kit became similar to storm arrow (a commonly proposed rework) but I have no doubt that's how he'd be used by the majority of the playerbase, similar to Bastion, Reaper, Mauga; why target squishies without incentive and the skillfloor is so rewarding?
i just want them to swap valkyrie and resurrect. that would solve a lot of grievances on both sides of the mercy argument. a fun impactful active ability that you get to use every fight and the enemy team doesn’t have to deal with rez often. damage boost can be tuned down outside of valk but be really potent in valk then you compensate her somewhere else.
Is valk really a "fun impactful active ability" tho? I feel like the main thing it does right now is make Mercy pretty much unkillable and make everything else about her better, so she can do whatever she wants. I don't see any skill expression in valk just like the rest of her kit. Character is trash, just bin it.
@@joenutzz420_ ok you can have your opinion, i’ll keep mine thank you
I disagree, but not a bad idea by any means.
I'd only agree with that if she can ult rez the whole team, or at least 2 or 3 teammates. A rez ult would need some more value, not all rezzes are good for the team. So let her rez more.
@@joenutzz420_ You want to bin mercy? I can tell you main a dps that isn't hitscan.
i think doomfist just really needs his block taken away and swap it for uppercut or something
You could fix Hanzo. If you swap his primary fire to be like Storm Arrow, but with less damage/attack speed and you replace Storm Arrow with a long-range sniper shot like his current primary fire.
wait so you make him projectile sojourn?
@@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERSwhen you say it like that, then it isn't much different.
But the primary would be a lot more like Cass rather than Sojurn's spray and pray and the "one shot" would be on a long cooldown, rather than every 5 seconds.
@@bigfudge2031 ok i see the vision
i was also thinking abt a sojourn rework that would be sorta similar, turning her primary into more of a DMR feel and making rail an attack speed boost instead of a hip fire widow headshot which is frankly obscene imo
Why Mauga deserves his own tier: Everything about his kit is worthless in my eyes and opinion, and "mid range poke and overrun being fun" isn't enough to put him on the same tier with some of my least favorite heroes.
1. Berserker (His Passive) Is already treading on game design within his own Role. Junker Queen is already a tank hero specifically made for OW2 with a passive that grants her healing off of her damage. Albiet in a balanced way, since her self heal doesn't hard counter most brawl tanks with ease. If something doesn't add to the game in a positive, interesting, or unique way, It should not exist in my opinion.
2. Incendiary Chaingun and Volatile Chaingun (Or Gunny and Cha-Cha) are also badly designed, I feel like this is the one thing where the skill expression is supposed to arise in his kit considering his two abilities and ult are just "charge with less reward and less risk." "Lifesteal DR" and "Winston Barrier / Cassidy Roll reload gimmick / Junkrat Trap love child." But this weapon is just as uninteresting as the rest of his kit, here's a flow chart if you think otherwise.
Light them on fire > Shoot other gun. If you deal more dps by just firing both, ignore both steps and drool over your keyboard at the other tank.
Even aside from gameplay functions, I already mentioned him overlapping with JQ, She already has a "named weapons" gimmick that formerly was unique to her, and Ashe already has a burning gimmick, albeit Mauga adds the combo feature to it, which I've already mentioned doesn't add much IMO.
3. Overrun is just really boring, and misleading as an ability. Visual design conveys this as a spectacular attack, (Whole body is coated in flames from the speed he's generating, his stomping ability makes it look like a buffed EarthShatter on cooldown...) Actually mostly a defensive escape ability (DR and being unstoppable are the most powerful aspects, landing the stomp deals 5 more damage than a rein swing...) It being unstoppable is a band aid solution for the fact that this character has no answer to CC outside of it.
4. Cardiac Overdrive is genuinely one of my least favorite abilities in the entire game. I watched tons of Noobhunter clips, he was everywhere when he was pay to win, I had no idea how exactly it worked, I only knew it was lifesteal and DR because of the trailer. When you look at fortify, you can immediately tell it's a damage reduction ability, What about a yellow ring on the floor conveyss that idea? And there's no skill expression or learning curve or need to adapt to the ability either like JQ shout, another AOE boosting ability done better, her speed boost changes the way you need to aim, and that's something you'll need to practice, something Mauga doesn't need. This is quite literally the worst sustain ability you could come up with that gets the job done correctly.
5. Cage Fight, the least egregious of his kit yet still terrible. Here's a little design experiment I have, Compare this ult to each ult of the characters you've placed in your holy grail tier. Tracer's is a bomb, Blade replaces ninja stars with a "strong" sword, Lucio gives everyone lots of health, Winston's is a transformation that gives you extra HP, quicker jumps and punches.
Cage Fight...
- gives you a 1500 HP barrier (with too much cast time to dodge things on reaction like Winston or Rein, and works in a circle meaning how you deploy it doesn't unlike Rein, Sigma or Ram)
- Reloads your weapon (so don't even worry about one aspect that would require thought)
- Silences your enemies movement abilities (creating super unfair matchups and further exasperating the counter-pick issue with Overwatch, compare Doom to Orisa)
- Tethers himself and enemies within to the ultimate itself.
It's just a much less exciting Grav that tries to overcompensate with extra little bonuses. If an ultimate this much extra fluff to justify it's existence as an ultimate instead of an ability, it might just be too flawed to try and make work.
lifeweaver could b midtier i think. his heal should not be instant when it reaches, its so completely deranged that ana's shots heal over 1second and lifeweavers instantly give the target 70 hp. it makes it hard to tell ur getting healed by him and makes it feel like youre doing negative damage to a target getting his heals compared to seeing the hp bar rise from ana's shots or even a brig pack. the petal is the best thing in his kit imo, lifegrip is okish but petal offers the most for choice and strategy. lifegrip is always used in the same way (unless its to troll.) i think petal should just be tuned to interact with other abilities better. let certain attacks pierce it, make it carry the grav up with it instead of somehow passing through the grav to carry people out of it, make its hitbox less wacky (any time i try to dash up to it as genji i hit the edge. i have never been able to get on top of an enemy lw's petal w/o aiming much higher than i think i need to)
I have always been saying Ana is a poorly designed character. She is just beloved and fun because she has the agency in her hands, but that doesn't mean good design. Punishable at times, sure, but there are still tons of problems. Here's my rant:
-Strongest CC should not exist on a support and that's why we took all cc EXCEPT for this one off because holy moly would everyone lose their minds if they did.
-Strongest CC cooldown that is easy to land on big hitboxes flows into strongest utility cooldown that is also easy to hit on big targets. Both cooldowns alone can easily get a tank killed, and are extremely easy to spam at them. Both stop the tank from playing the game for a long time. On a character picked the most, it's no wonder the one tank in each game feels awful and they are whining. Land one easy shot on a big target, free next one (sleep then nade) then "gg tank fed" toxicity runs rampant on the enemy team. They are the spikiest abilities in the game in terms of value aside from suzu, so of course they go into the tank always.
-Why should a character have 2 cooldowns that mark you for death? They just need one to counter all of the same characters. Give her something else that's interesting and put one of the utilities elsewhere (probably the super stun)
-Every tank from here on out without a frequent uptime ability mitigation tool will be pretty hard countered by ana. Not only will you have your tanks that counter you, but also this support will do a lot to much of the tank roster for forever more because of the inclusion of nade with sleep
-Ana isn't as skill shot focused as people like to admit. Headshots take a lot of skill and she doesn't have them. She still requires a lot of skill so there is healthiness about her as well. Her poor health for the game is centralized in the combination of her two abilities. People act like landing a sleep dart is like landing a widow head shot up close. It takes some skill, but this isn't a large factor when the hitbox of the bullied role completely mitigates this. She is widow for tanks, except when you jump on her, the skill shot is way way easier for her to land than it is with widow. Approaching ana is like approaching a slightly more fair hanzo. Super unhealthy.
-The diversity of use cases for nade is not reflected in any other ability in the game. What else does decent damage, decent instant healing, and 2 utility abilities (purple and yellow) that are both very good, one of which can result in hundreds of damage worth of utility (stopping healing) and is game defining because of it. It's great that she can do so much with an ability, but not when other characters can't. Every other ability is basically 1 or 2 other things and all of them are probably less impactful when used right. She'll always feel good if you land your abilities (sometimes you can just throw them at the ground and you'll never miss), and she can't be countered off of her hero like tanks are by her or their tank counterparts, let alone the combination of the two.
-this is a small one, but sleeping people turns into a lot of teabagging and similar bad behavior towards a sleeping player who can't play the game
-stunning for 5 or even 3 seconds is pretty crazy. Nothing is as "turn your game off for a long time" as this, especially since it's usually coupled with a death. Most games don't include stuns this long for obvious reasons.
-not enough compensation was ever given for the massive buff that the support passive was for ana. Might as well throw your nade off cooldown into the enemy tank, because you have self healing and the best disable in the game. Needing a 120 health life swing that you can't miss on the ground was already debatably overkill for the design (but it's nice to present the choices and define playstyles with them).
Ana is super unhealthy for the tank experience, people just like skill expression which is great, but it's still a problem.
I got some disagreements, but generally hard to disagree with 90% of the picks
5:11 iDonutsand...: "Spilo is a weeb, confirmed" (chat)