might be more useful to have a video that does more than a brochure you get from the company, is not afraid to make any negative points for balance. Maybe using ticks or numbers when scoring points would be less confusing that coloured dots. I might be wrong but i get the impression one of the reasons they make videos like this is to get freebies.
This is a helpful video ... many thanks for putting it together. I got the Wotancraft bag and am very happy with it. Two things: One, the bag looks great with the lacquer paint on my Brompton (as if it were designed for the bike); two, Wotancraft threw in a pair of "Year of the Rabbit" leather coasters!
Nice comparison. I personally think the Wotancraft basket bag is excellent just due to the fact that it has the built in cover so doubles as a t-bag really. Use mine just to pop to the local shop even when walking up and when we go shopping on the Brompton as well. 👍
The Brompton Basket bag has not changed much in the last 20 years. It was time somebody came up with some innovative ideas. The roll-top feature (and add-on pocket capability) makes the Wotancraft Basket very versatile (we are presently doing some test touring with it). As you mentioned in your (excellent) video, it just needs a rain cover.
if i wanted to a brochure which is obviously with no negative points, with lots of random numbers thrown at me, i would get a brochure from the shop. it would be also simpler to use numbers rather than black and white dots to represent numbers.
Hi there! I’ve seen almost all your videos and just wanted to say… they are brilliant!! Thanks for your work and keep on doing it. Regards from Spain! Fernando (still riding my S6L Brompton black edition).
3x pioneer would do it for me That extendable roll top with added waterproof protection and larger carrying capacity only restricted by the frame is a winner
Thanks for this great video. It is fun to watch and very structured and therefore informative. The graphics you include are top nodge!!! For me, being guilty of beeing a bit auf weight weenie, the weight is alway a main interest. Trying to cut of some weight of my Brompton here and there I don't want to add it all with heavy bags. It would be great if you could include this topic in your videos more. The Wotancraft Products seem to be very useful and well made but it seems to me they are all quite heavy, do you agree? Cheers from Germany :-)
Hi BeachStart, All the “bells and whistles” (pockets, zippers,…) found on some bags do add up when it comes to weight. Baskets bags, for their volume, are usually quite light. The Wotancraft (with frame, no side pockets) was 980gr vs 920gr for the Liberty bag. I suspect the Borough Basket would be somewhere in between (having more 1000D Cordura than the Liberty). That’s 500 gr less than a comparable volume Borough Large roll-top. As far as large volume covered bag, I think the Wotancraft Basket wins.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thank you very much for your details answere. The Wotancraft material just looks so heavy as it reminds me of waxed canvas. I guess I just have to find a product and feel it myself. Thanks for helping me out here! My main internal debate is actually choosing between a travel bag like the ones in your videos made for the Brompton block or getting a titanium front rack for the Brompton block and putting a watertight bag on it with straps. The last option would be easier to carry when the Brompton is locked away. The first option has a better usebility with the two extrabags while on the bike. But that is for traveling use not for daily use as described in your video.
Wotancraft uses 500D Cordura that indeed, looks like waxed cotton, but it’s a lot lighter (also lighter than 1000D Cordura used on Borough bags) Gilbert is kind of partial to fully waterproof bags for touring. As nothing sufficiently large was available for Brompton (until recently), he made one using Ortlieb bags attached to a Brompton luggage frame (ref our video th-cam.com/video/4_ApnjzCfdU/w-d-xo.html) If your main use case is touring and, sometimes, grocery, and could use a waterproof backpack or messenger bags when not cycling, maybe a waterproof DIY solution is better. If you plan to use the bag for grocery on a regular basis and tour only on occasion, the Wotancraft would be more appropriate. Hope to see you along a bike path in Germany some day.
Great video. I would have added a last choice criteria which would be something like the ease of roll when folded. Actually, the old basket bag of Brompton was (to me) better in the sense that it provided a robust plastic handle. It disappeared in the new versions so that it can fit with S versions. But it makes a big difference when you carry the Brompton like a troller. I wonder to what extent the Pioneer is better compared to the Brompton for that specific purpose. Thanks for your advices and have a good day!
ow, and please be cautious with the bottles of Bordeaux exported abroad (as we may see one of these on the cashier at the beginning of the video). ;) In France they already have a slightly bad reputation.
Interesting point. The Pioneer cannot accommodate the older C/T Frame (the one with an handle). The 2 soft handles on each side of the bag could be used to pull the Brompton in “troller” mode, but not sure it would be much better than the new Brompton basket in that respect. PS As for the Bordeaux wine, it was bought on location (in an Aldi along the Velodyssée trail). The low price was the main factor in the purchase :-)
Yes Gary, both are compatible with all handlebar types. Do be careful however if carrying oversized object (ex.: a load of French baguettes), as it may interfere with the handlebar (more so with a S obviously)
I still prefer the old Brompton "T-Bags," which, I believe, had a huge capacity of 30-liters. I am surprised that capacity was not one of your leading criteria. I think it would be for people viewing your channel.
Hi @stephenschuit7880, For touring, the T-Bag is indeed tough to beat (and does have a larger capacity). The T, C and basket bags lineage goes back 20 years or so. While the first two have been discontinued, the basket barely changed through the years and remains available, testimony to its wide appeal. Its lower cost (1/2 the price of a T-Bag) must have something to do with it as well. To come back to (our kind of) touring, which doesn’t involve camping, Pam favors her RadicalDesign C Bag (was using a Carradice C bag prior to that) while Gilbert ditch its old Carradice T-Bag, preferring an actually IPX rated waterproof bag instead (a modified DIY Ortlieb XPress)
Hello Pam and Gilbert, Firstly, thank you for your wonderful channel, it really is exceptionally good, I love the analysis of the various technical aspects of folding bikes. I'm a brommie owner ( well, multiple Brommies since I purchased my " Gateway " used 2015 M6L 😉 I've recently purchased a Brompton Electric C line explore. It's a great bike and I often use it in " Analog " mode where I find it handles better than my regular Brommie, due I thing to the extra weigh of the front wheel / battery bag. This brings me to my reason for posting, I've heard rumours of a new Basket Bag for the electric Brompton. This would be ideal as the standard basket bag is my favourite. Have you any information / thoughts on this?
UPDATE to my own post, I watched the Brilliant Bikes video about the new basket bag for the Brompton Electric. I'm sure that Santa will be sending one my way. 🎅🏻👍 I just need to work out a way to add a couple of pouches to the back of the bag, ideally without any sewing being involved!
Thanks for another informative product review! About the cost comparison near the end, perhaps the shoulder strap can also be replaced by user’s own laptop/bag padded shoulder straps?
While the Wotancraft shoulder strap attachment hardware is not proprietary, it’s slightly unconventional. In order to use a regular laptop strap, we would suggest adding two keychain split rings to the existing basket bag attach points. This easy and economical modification would enable the use of most shoulder straps you may already own. Note that the Wotancraft shoulder strap is compatible across Pilot and Pioneer products, so its initial cost may be amortized over various bags.
Enjoying all your video content. For the Pioneer bag, do you thin there is difference in material for the black and brown canvas? I am looking for a bag that has shape so I can use to commute work to put in spare clothes and use if for other riding trips. I have used the O bag and find that it holds the shape but its on the heavy side. I also have the old T-bag, min O and the shopping basket, would you recommend this bag?
Hi AhTanStan, Both colours are Cordura 500D, so strength wise, they are identical. We do prefer the brown/khaki version for maintenance/aesthetic reasons however (dirt shows a lot more on the black one). The Wotancraft bag functionality will be a merge of your old T-Bag (with its rolltop capability) and your shopping basket. If your basket has the new internal frame (no handle and forward brace), purchasing the Wotancraft basket would be very economical (about $120US). If you do have to purchase the internal structure, the price proposition is less interesting (about $200US). The bag is very versatile (from shopping to touring), we use it for both purpose. For somebody that want only one bag to do it all, it’s a good choice. In your case, you already own a few options, so there will be some overlap.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thanks for your added information. I do not have the new internal frame which purchasing the basket with accessory will be more expensive than the metro waterproof bag and slightly cheaper than the Freitag bag. Decisions……
Yes, it’s in $US (we should have indicated it). We have been very pleased with Wotancraft’s response time. If the item in question is in stock, it usually shows up within a week (shipped to Montreal via DHL)
In my opinion, your videos are simply gold standard for videos on bikes, tech and gear :-)
might be more useful to have a video that does more than a brochure you get from the company, is not afraid to make any negative points for balance. Maybe using ticks or numbers when scoring points would be less confusing that coloured dots. I might be wrong but i get the impression one of the reasons they make videos like this is to get freebies.
Hooray! I'm always happy to see your videos pop up. I know there's going to be some quality info in them.
Your videos remind me of "how it's made"...relaxing and informative.
This is a helpful video ... many thanks for putting it together.
I got the Wotancraft bag and am very happy with it.
Two things: One, the bag looks great with the lacquer paint on my Brompton (as if it were designed for the bike); two, Wotancraft threw in a pair of "Year of the Rabbit" leather coasters!
Congratulations for your new bag (and your Brompton Lacquer). Excellent purchase(s).
Great timing. I have been thinking to buy a bag for my Brompton!! Thank you.
Nice comparison. I personally think the Wotancraft basket bag is excellent just due to the fact that it has the built in cover so doubles as a t-bag really. Use mine just to pop to the local shop even when walking up and when we go shopping on the Brompton as well. 👍
The Brompton Basket bag has not changed much in the last 20 years. It was time somebody came up with some innovative ideas. The roll-top feature (and add-on pocket capability) makes the Wotancraft Basket very versatile (we are presently doing some test touring with it).
As you mentioned in your (excellent) video, it just needs a rain cover.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Look forward to hear what you think after the touring test! 😀👍
Amazing how clever these basket bags have become, a lot of well designed features all rolled in. Excellent video!
if i wanted to a brochure which is obviously with no negative points, with lots of random numbers thrown at me, i would get a brochure from the shop. it would be also simpler to use numbers rather than black and white dots to represent numbers.
Hi there!
I’ve seen almost all your videos and just wanted to say… they are brilliant!! Thanks for your work and keep on doing it.
Regards from Spain!
Fernando (still riding my S6L Brompton black edition).
Regards from Canada!
3x pioneer would do it for me
That extendable roll top with added waterproof protection and larger carrying capacity only restricted by the frame is a winner
Love your reviews 👍🏻😍
we love your videos too ;-)
Great video!
Excellent as usual
Excellent review. Thanks for sharing. But... did you buy these bags from Dumoulin?
Hi Rog, Dumoulin provided us with the Borough Liberty bag, Wotancraft provided their basket bag
Thanks for this great video. It is fun to watch and very structured and therefore informative. The graphics you include are top nodge!!!
For me, being guilty of beeing a bit auf weight weenie, the weight is alway a main interest. Trying to cut of some weight of my Brompton here and there I don't want to add it all with heavy bags. It would be great if you could include this topic in your videos more. The Wotancraft Products seem to be very useful and well made but it seems to me they are all quite heavy, do you agree?
Cheers from Germany :-)
Hi BeachStart,
All the “bells and whistles” (pockets, zippers,…) found on some bags do add up when it comes to weight. Baskets bags, for their volume, are usually quite light. The Wotancraft (with frame, no side pockets) was 980gr vs 920gr for the Liberty bag. I suspect the Borough Basket would be somewhere in between (having more 1000D Cordura than the Liberty). That’s 500 gr less than a comparable volume Borough Large roll-top.
As far as large volume covered bag, I think the Wotancraft Basket wins.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thank you very much for your details answere. The Wotancraft material just looks so heavy as it reminds me of waxed canvas. I guess I just have to find a product and feel it myself. Thanks for helping me out here!
My main internal debate is actually choosing between a travel bag like the ones in your videos made for the Brompton block or getting a titanium front rack for the Brompton block and putting a watertight bag on it with straps. The last option would be easier to carry when the Brompton is locked away. The first option has a better usebility with the two extrabags while on the bike. But that is for traveling use not for daily use as described in your video.
Wotancraft uses 500D Cordura that indeed, looks like waxed cotton, but it’s a lot lighter (also lighter than 1000D Cordura used on Borough bags)
Gilbert is kind of partial to fully waterproof bags for touring. As nothing sufficiently large was available for Brompton (until recently), he made one using Ortlieb bags attached to a Brompton luggage frame (ref our video
th-cam.com/video/4_ApnjzCfdU/w-d-xo.html)
If your main use case is touring and, sometimes, grocery, and could use a waterproof backpack or messenger bags when not cycling, maybe a waterproof DIY solution is better. If you plan to use the bag for grocery on a regular basis and tour only on occasion, the Wotancraft would be more appropriate.
Hope to see you along a bike path in Germany some day.
How can you both be so classy?
Great video. I would have added a last choice criteria which would be something like the ease of roll when folded. Actually, the old basket bag of Brompton was (to me) better in the sense that it provided a robust plastic handle. It disappeared in the new versions so that it can fit with S versions. But it makes a big difference when you carry the Brompton like a troller. I wonder to what extent the Pioneer is better compared to the Brompton for that specific purpose. Thanks for your advices and have a good day!
ow, and please be cautious with the bottles of Bordeaux exported abroad (as we may see one of these on the cashier at the beginning of the video). ;) In France they already have a slightly bad reputation.
Interesting point. The Pioneer cannot accommodate the older C/T Frame (the one with an handle). The 2 soft handles on each side of the bag could be used to pull the Brompton in “troller” mode, but not sure it would be much better than the new Brompton basket in that respect.
PS As for the Bordeaux wine, it was bought on location (in an Aldi along the Velodyssée trail). The low price was the main factor in the purchase :-)
this is so nice!! ❤❤ new friend here!
Yaaaassssssss!!!!!
Thanks for another great video! Do you think these bags can used with an S/ flat bar Brompton? It looks like it has the clearance.
Yes Gary, both are compatible with all handlebar types.
Do be careful however if carrying oversized object (ex.: a load of French baguettes), as it may interfere with the handlebar (more so with a S obviously)
2Bikes4Adventure Thanks for the advice, I do love baguettes!
I still prefer the old Brompton "T-Bags," which, I believe, had a huge capacity of 30-liters. I am surprised that capacity was not one of your leading criteria. I think it would be for people viewing your channel.
Hi @stephenschuit7880, For touring, the T-Bag is indeed tough to beat (and does have a larger capacity).
The T, C and basket bags lineage goes back 20 years or so. While the first two have been discontinued, the basket barely changed through the years and remains available, testimony to its wide appeal. Its lower cost (1/2 the price of a T-Bag) must have something to do with it as well.
To come back to (our kind of) touring, which doesn’t involve camping, Pam favors her RadicalDesign C Bag (was using a Carradice C bag prior to that) while Gilbert ditch its old Carradice T-Bag, preferring an actually IPX rated waterproof bag instead (a modified DIY Ortlieb XPress)
Hello Pam and Gilbert,
Firstly, thank you for your wonderful channel, it really is exceptionally good, I love the analysis of the various technical aspects of folding bikes. I'm a brommie owner ( well, multiple Brommies since I purchased my " Gateway " used 2015 M6L 😉
I've recently purchased a Brompton Electric C line explore. It's a great bike and I often use it in " Analog " mode where I find it handles better than my regular Brommie, due I thing to the extra weigh of the front wheel / battery bag. This brings me to my reason for posting, I've heard rumours of a new Basket Bag for the electric Brompton. This would be ideal as the standard basket bag is my favourite. Have you any information / thoughts on this?
We haven't look into eBrompton specific bags too much, but we heard good things about the Valerias.
UPDATE to my own post,
I watched the Brilliant Bikes video about the new basket bag for the Brompton Electric. I'm sure that Santa will be sending one my way. 🎅🏻👍
I just need to work out a way to add a couple of pouches to the back of the bag, ideally without any sewing being involved!
With this new bag, XMas came early this year.
Hopefully, Santa won’t forget you.
Really like the Wotancraft Basket Bag - but would not fit my eBike Front Block.
There would be a market for more eBrompton compatible bags
Thanks for another informative product review! About the cost comparison near the end, perhaps the shoulder strap can also be replaced by user’s own laptop/bag padded shoulder straps?
While the Wotancraft shoulder strap attachment hardware is not proprietary, it’s slightly unconventional. In order to use a regular laptop strap, we would suggest adding two keychain split rings to the existing basket bag attach points. This easy and economical modification would enable the use of most shoulder straps you may already own.
Note that the Wotancraft shoulder strap is compatible across Pilot and Pioneer products, so its initial cost may be amortized over various bags.
@@2Bikes4Adventure that's good detail to know, it really helps! thanks again for your kind sharing :)
Enjoying all your video content. For the Pioneer bag, do you thin there is difference in material for the black and brown canvas? I am looking for a bag that has shape so I can use to commute work to put in spare clothes and use if for other riding trips. I have used the O bag and find that it holds the shape but its on the heavy side. I also have the old T-bag, min O and the shopping basket, would you recommend this bag?
Hi AhTanStan,
Both colours are Cordura 500D, so strength wise, they are identical. We do prefer the brown/khaki version for maintenance/aesthetic reasons however (dirt shows a lot more on the black one).
The Wotancraft bag functionality will be a merge of your old T-Bag (with its rolltop capability) and your shopping basket. If your basket has the new internal frame (no handle and forward brace), purchasing the Wotancraft basket would be very economical (about $120US). If you do have to purchase the internal structure, the price proposition is less interesting (about $200US). The bag is very versatile (from shopping to touring), we use it for both purpose. For somebody that want only one bag to do it all, it’s a good choice. In your case, you already own a few options, so there will be some overlap.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thanks for your added information. I do not have the new internal frame which purchasing the basket with accessory will be more expensive than the metro waterproof bag and slightly cheaper than the Freitag bag. Decisions……
I want fluo.
Awesome video, fellow Canadian. (Vancouver). I'm assuming all your costs are based on the US dollar? How long to ship from Wotancraft?
Yes, it’s in $US (we should have indicated it).
We have been very pleased with Wotancraft’s response time.
If the item in question is in stock, it usually shows up within a week (shipped to Montreal via DHL)
Would you please let me know if these products are available in Canada?
And can they be bought online and/or in a brick-and-mortar store?
The Brompton bag was from our local (brick-and-mortar) Brompton dealer in Montreal. The Wotancraft bag was acquired online.
@@2Bikes4Adventure thank you
Hi.. Able to share what helmet brand/model he’s using. Thanks
Gilbert is using a (folding helmet) Overade Plixi, while Pam is using a Bell Hub helmet.
Thanks. Got one immediately!
The option on market is super limited… design is not fashionable too 😞
Affordable? Really?