DIY 5.1 Surround speakers - a learning opportunity!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 เม.ย. 2020
- 3D printing parts that are more complex than what we usually make can be daunting - especially when it also needs to look good! Making my own 5.1 surround satellite speakers was a project I started over two years ago and today we're finally finishing it. There were plenty of hiccups and mistakes - I'll show you all of them so that you don't have to make them yourself!
The speakers were modeled with Onshape, unfortunately, I don't have the models anymore or I'd gladly share them with you.
Materials used:
Front: Visaton FR10 + SC5
Rear: Visaton FR10HM
PLA filament from Matterhackers, Fillamentum, DAS FILAMENT and Atom 3D
Printed on the Atom 2.5 EX
T-Shirt from Proto-Pasta
Read the article to this video here: toms3d.org/2020/04/09/surroun...
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How you can help with printing PPE:
Germany / Austria / Switzerland: www.makervsvirus.org/de/
USA: www.matterhackers.com/covid-19
Videos to help you make use of your printers effectively:
Print face shields faster by CNC Kitchen: th-cam.com/video/_bt1UZAnxnA/w-d-xo.html
3DMN's experiences: th-cam.com/video/XvgF0eWhRzA/w-d-xo.html
3D Printing Nerd's process: th-cam.com/video/CHDMdyN5Jjs/w-d-xo.html
If you know about initiatives in your country, please leave a comment below. Thanks and stay safe out there!
As for your actual comment I have been printing out many masks for my local hospital, I definitely don't mean to disrespect anything by putting that other comment where I did; I just wanted you to see it Tom. Thank you, and everyone make sure you get printing protective equipment for those who need it!
Also, nice first speaker build! I did something like that when I started off when my profession was just a hobby. I made this single driver design for a surround sound setup because contrary to what you said about the surround sound speakers producing "effects", that is how it used to be quite a long time ago now, things have changed and now we have discrete channels where in the ideal world each speaker should sound exactly the same. This is why I designed this speaker. :) I hope anyone reading this found it informative.
I love when ppl show the "failed attempts". Because for the "learner" it's always good to see what went wrong so we can also learn for other's people failures. And your "failed attempts" to me are not failures but rehearsal for success.
"I can recommend Hexibase here on youtube, he really understands this stuff..." Thats an understatement. Having just a mild understanding of whats going on with speakers myself, its quite evident that he isnt just someone who grabbed some books, follows some guides, fiddled a bit, and got good at making speakers, but that he understands the theory deeply and intuitively. Between that and his good oratory skills, the only other time Ive ever seen someone effectively present themselves as that knowledgeable on a topic was an antenna designer that just breathed the stuff naturally. Both are 'simple' at the base level, but get all sorts of big gotchas that make the real world very non-ideal.
Do you mean IBcrazy?
YAY, Hexibase!
Bless people who use actual connectors on a DIY surround system.
Hi Thomas!! Great job!!
Youre walking into the dark side with those amazing DIY speakers, when you realize the stunning results you get with such a tiny budget and some research, probably youll never stop (and that subwoofer prot. proves it haha )
I have some experience building speaker enclosures and recently i've done a couple of 3d printed ones too. I guess you can improve sound quality by upgrading some points of your design.
First: the enclosure. The reason to use an sealed box design is to eliminate rear sound waves the speaker generates, but 3d printed ones have too thin and light walls (at reasonable filament/money cost) to effectively avoid sound radiation trough them and can even get resonances too, all that makes the sound "difuse". I made my ones the same way as you, but my "next gen" idea is to print them with low infill percentaje, put some mm. distance between shells and pour some sort of liguid epoxi resin to make them solid (and heavy) as we can. Next step is fill your boxes with any acoustic damping material too, there are a many types them with diferent properties, this makes a huge diference, lets take a look at any DIY speaker forum.
Second: Avoid to cover drivers with regular shirt fabric, it can cover sound details, if yo really need it, use some kind of nylon fabric like stockings or something like that. Other thing I would do is to make that honeycomb grille thinner as you can, is a source of resonances too but on the other hand, I understand if you have pets or kids, then a strong protection is needed.
Finnally, I recommend to put those crossover filter coils all in diferent orientation in respect to the plane, the way you placed them could cause magnetic fields get coupled and u could suffer any random unexpected "bugs" out of the filter's frecuency response like notches, peaks,oscillations... anything.
Hope this ideas will been usefull to any of you ;)
Thank you thomas! Keeping us busy in quarantine! Be safe out there ;) love from Canada 🇨🇦
This is a huge coincidence since I just bought a pair of ceiling speakers to make a cool enclosure and use as satellites. This gave me some nice ideas! Thanks!
Congrats for ploughing through and finishing it up! The tshirt covers are an awesome idea and look great!
This video is the true definition of persistence! very nice project!
Sorry but I had to laugh when you discovered the shells soaked up water and then warped in the sun when drying out, I don't think many people on the planet would have guessed those events would happen, especially not me! I would have put them in my cheap temperature controlled food dehydrator I use for drying filament.
But the end result you have after all that work must be worth it, they really look like they could've been commercially made.
I still bless the day 15+ years ago I was alerted to the Yamaha NS-P80 set for £50 in a sale, including postage! They still sound amazing today.
Wow, 3D printing and speakers are two of my favorite things. Thanks for sharing, you inspired me to make my own!
I can really recommend watching (and subscribing) to HexiBase then :)
POÄNG chairs!!! I love them, they're so comfortable. Thanks for the post , Tom!
Really cool to see a build project with all the mistakes as well as successes. Lots of little learns that all add up.
Speakers look Great! you did a great job!
Thanx for the story, Thomas! :))) Watering any infilled plastic before painting, it was just LOL :)) It's good that you're not shy to share this. Very funny and a good experience. You've made my day!
Those speakers are beautiful! And this was your best video in a long time!
Except all the caressing which sounded loud :P
speakers do look good, the grill really is a nice touch :)
I gained a lot of insight from your trials and tribulations!
I also really like your grill solution. I would like to see a cast iteration, 3d printed master and silicone molds.
Five is probably at the break even point of cost effectiveness; the material benefits may well be worth it, particularly with ceramic additives in a urethane resin.
The nautilus shell shaped speaker would be a phenomenal project. A well finished 3d print seems a lot less stressful when you only need to get it right once and then cast them to your hearts content.
Great project and process! I was thrown for a loop when I saw the Onshape screencaps, hahaha
It's very cool for what you all can do with 3D printing! We make some mistakes were we learn from, and that is great! The speakers are looking awesome!
Really entertaining and educational video! Loved it!
I Always Enjoy your videos, and I'm actually designing a speaker box, so this videos fits prettly well right now! Thanks for the oportunity
I Also had a problem with dimensions in the past, but with a CoreXY printer, and it end it up the problem was the belts,, one of the belts were twisted and that made up the belt rigid in the place,
So If I printed in a specific position of the bed the dimensions ended up being incorrect, but in another place of the bed the dimensions would be just fine
That was an excellent montage. I like the heist music, like we are about to rob a casino with speakers.
They look really good 😍
I feel you on gluing the magnets Thomas! I added very small and thin magnets into some flexible prints for experiments and ended up having to design the holes JUST tight enough to hold them firm. Otherwise it was a matter of holding each one down with a toothpick until the glue was dry. =]
Great speakers!!
THE FUNK IS STROOONG IN THIS ONE, CHEEEEEEZE!!
Was just listening to Moe Shop as well! Awesome project!
I use infill in the whole volume of my speakers. It is a great reinforcement, allowing to make the wall thin, and also absorbs standing waves. 3D printing offers some really unique features for audio makers.
Excellent video Tom!
Impressive job!
One of the lessons; don’t try to make everything perfect all the time, I totally get it is annoying and it would be to me as well, but at least it works and hopefully is forgotten after a few movie nights.
yeah you have to remember you are not a fractory making thousands.
the perfectionism is always what does me in.
Nice!, they look great!👌
Thank you Thomas!
Thomas. You should look into 2K primer. Its thicker. Comes in a can but best if you use a paint gun. Resin is messy. Also to note im a professional painter by trade
Amazing Video. Thanks a lot for your help
Love your doggie! Nice speakers too
Making speakers is a bit of a fine art and certainly a labour of love. Unless you're a technician and craftsman in equal order you're always confronted with accepting compromises regardless the scale of your labour's. If I may suggest, the casing of your speakers obviously have an acoustic property - you can hear it on the video as you were handling them. Maybe worth stuffing them with and acoustic dampening material or filler so as to minimise possible resonance at certain frequencies (possibly more noticeable at specific volume levels). And get them sitting on rubber feet perhaps as your sub at certain frequencies could get them singing. You didn't mention it in your video but I'd also have your speaker drivers mounted via a rubber gasket rather than directly against the plastic. Otherwise, we'll done.
the big ones remind me of the google home max, really like the design
Enclosures turned out amazing. You should point rear speaker toward you...and slightly above ear height.
Hey wait a minute, thats Moe Shop!
I see you are a man of culture as well. Love that album.
So glad our 3d printing facility has sand blasters. Makes hiding those layer lines a lot easier. Little bit of filler primer and good to go
Pro tip gluing magnets. Place a metal sheet under the project. Magnets will focus on trying to stick to it through your part and will stay In place perfectly while being glued.
There are some great 3d printed speakers made by HexiBase. If you two can get in contact, there could be some epic projects incoming :D
Thanks to the Quarantine God! All 50% finished projects now gonna be 90% finished, lol. Anw, good vid, take care and keep up your good works!
Ohhh, after watched all the video and thinking for sometime. I think that if I gonna do some projects like that in the future for myself, I'll print it as a 3-piece main body. I'll detach the recessed region for cable away from the main body (just left a rectangular hole on the underside of the main body, which then can be easily supported with just normal PLA) and print the recessed region on it own (which will surely have good surface finish). After that, that part can be "snap into" the main body, which will then hide any flaw when breaking out the normal support of the main body underneath the join. For the sake of keeping me out of my own frustration, I'll do like that. As someone with a lot of experience on this project, do you think that my idea is "doable"?
P/s: hope that you can understand my comment due to my lack of English, lol
yep. after the quarantine, all of my projects that had been put in the backburner are all now being finished. got so far ahead that i modeled all the pieces, and now i'm just waiting for everything to be delivered.
Way to pull a Linus lol. All jokes aside, those look amazing. Nice job. I've learned that whenever I start a new project and I'm unfamiliar with the process, I will do a single part first before making the rest. You can save a lot of time, headaches and money that way.
Got the superwoofer on the couch to complement the subwoofer on the floor! Nice.
2:03 PUPPER!!!!
Woofer*
I've been looking for a video like this one for months.
I hoped there would be stl's, but nice video!
Post processing 3D prints in your tub. You must not be married! Love the video!
I really like this concept, would you ever consider making a video comparing the different materials for speakers?
Moe Shop! Not the crossover between my interests I was expecting. :D
If you fill up your speakers with stuffing foam that can increase your bass response and decrease reflections from the enclosure. Close celled foam can work well for the walls of the speaker in some cases but usually just standard pillow stuffing style speaker stuffing is good.
As someone with quite some experience with DIY speaker building and very enthusiastic at researching the subject, here's some tips:
1st: As much as possible, try to center your drivers on their axis, I mean, don't offset the tweeter above the center of the midrange driver that creates weird resonances that destroy the sound at some frequencies and that's really hard to fix. (you'd need a nice DSP with lots of Parametric EQs).
2nd: Keep in mind, higher frequencies tend to be directional while lower frequencies don't, so that means two things: 1st: as the center speaker on a Home theater is meant to be "centered" the ideal configuration for it is a MTM (midrange-tweeter-midrange) BY placing the tweeter in the middle you will make sure the center point of your audio source is in the middle of the box so you can confidently place it in the middle of your TV, so it's nice and symmetric and all voices from your movies will sound like it's comign from the actual center not slightly to the left or to the right. That also means you want to build your sattelites with drivers and a cabinet size that allows them to play at least down to 100hz, so you can crossover your subwoofer to play only frequencies bellow 100hz, and that should help avoid the subwoofer localization effect where you know the bass is coming from a given point in the room. (To be clear it is recommended that you have two subs near the two front sattellites and I actually prefer crossing over at 60hz because yyou can often still localize the sub when it's crossed over at mainly because crossovers aren't as straightforward as it seems when we talk about them 100hz.
3rd: Add Weight to your speaker cabinets to avoid them vibrating and making noise.
4th: Keep on with the round looking cabinets as they avoid internal resonances, and keep in mind to avoid doing cubic cabinets even if trhey have rounded edges, always try to make every one of the three dimensions of the cabinet different from each other (good work on this one).
Finnally, feel free to ask me any questions on your next DIY speaker project.
I have used weld-on 4 for gluing my PLA prints, its made for acrylics but i have had great success with it on PLA and its really thing so it gets into every gap. Also im looking to get a second printer, any recommendations im looking for high quality prints and a large build area.
So you (re)discovered "pumping" (no pun intended!): As sb. who has to oversee development of consumer products that have to go into the dishwasher, I learned to hate this dreaded effect early on. In fact, just this year, we had to push back the launch of a household "thingy" by 6 months (all tools are finished) because one pesky component will simply continue to fill with water in the dishwasher ... only to leak disgusting brine onto your breakfast table later on! Great video BTW. Love the stretchy fabric approach with the frame...
BSi Super Thin... you used the exact right glue. Not all cyanoacrylate glues are worthy, but the BSi is literally the best.
I like seeing the ups and downs of a project! Can you link the filler that you used to smooth the parts? I cant find it.
I second @Morpheus! @Punished Props regularly uses a great product that Amazon will not ship to Australia, or stock at its .au outlet. Maybe Europe is more flexible with shipping over the Equator? Ha!
Great work! Did you also consider the relative positioning of the drivers for phase coherence? This would avoid them having any comb filtering and sounding "thin" and "metallic"
A good speaker needs mass to it and should be stiff.
To add mass you can use butyl mats like used for car audio to prevent body panels from shaking and making that tin can sound, it can improve the sound greatly
Interesting that Visaton makes a high-Q full-range driver. Seems perfect for this application. If you wanna take the crossover to the next step, check out XSim (for crossover design and simulataion) and REW (for measuring and exporting response files). Also, if they are sounding "thin" in the lower midrange, you can try one of several calculators online for a baffle step compensation circuit.
Great video, often one feels like it always goes perfect for you guys doing the videos, of course we know that is not true but it makes one feel good seeing you guys are not perfect (or your printers) either.
2:00 yo that stuff is my jam :)
Kirby Meets Audio is another channel to learn from. He's super knowledgeable about building speakers.
What did you glue them with?
You should try weldbond acrylic solvent. It's like acetone but works on pla and petg
If I could suggest one tip to improve on sound quality, it would be to use padding inside the enclosures. Sheep wool or something like rockwool will work perfect. This prevents resonance and make the enclosure virtually bigger inside. This will smooth out the frequency response and extend the bass response. I know the woofer takes over at this point, but trust me, it will give you a better soundstage.
Hi Tom,
just a quick tip if you haven't started planning/building your floorstanding speakers and/or subwoofer: There's a german speaker designer who runs acoustic-design-online and creates DIY speaker kits (basically drivers + crossover). He's a really nice guy with a nice community and his speaker designs are really impressive. You might want to check him out. He has already collaborated with other TH-camrs (e.g. the german channel Let's Bastel) and it might be a nice oppotunity for both of you make a great project.
This was a neat project Tom. But your video brings up a question I've been having since I got my first printer - an Anycubic Predator delta. How does one go about properly calibrating a delta printer? The printer runs a proprietary Chitu firmware so I'm not sure how configurable it is. Could you please do a video on how to calibrate a delta?
4:20 - "if you are interested in learning more about that [speaker design]..." - I was totally expecting an annoying Skillshare or CuriosityStream ad at this point :D
the needs to be ported to drive the sound pressure out and away. an fully enclosed box will just keep the pressure inside thus producing a muffled sound.
Thomas, would the hole pattern and size of the front grill affect sound quality?
Great video, can you post the link to the Hex? guy for the electronics?
Printing pretty precise assemblies on different (and of type!) printers is a "no-no"!
Even cartesian printers can give different sizes. So it's better to wait more but be sure that it will be all good.
Can you tell what superglue/filler you used? Thanks in advance!
Love your speaker ideas! Have you actually considered wood-pla?
Btw my next speaker project will include also Visaton :) (TIW200XS and B200). While the case will be wood, I am considering 3d printed accessories for the internal DSP/power amps...
P.S.: Where from germany are you actually?
First of all, thanks for this great video. Unfortunately I know these visaton speakers very well. I used them in some fun projects years ago, when Bluetooth speakers weren't a thing, yet. To be honest they sound horrible :-D. Please, get a speaker kit for your new fronz speakers. They aren't expensive and sound much much better. You'll get all you need: the speakers, components (electrics, terminals, damping) and a great documentary (schematics and such). Those kits make it very easy to build great speakers. If you want to make a project, let me know and I'll help you out. There are also great German magazines about this topic, if you're interested.
What primer is that @1:33 ?
I want from those can, the spray primer is very thin and doesn't leave room to sand without applying several coats.
How did you go about making / acquiring the crossovers?
Got to also recommend the channel HexiBase. Amazing speaker design and analysis. Definitely check it out. You guys should totally do a collaboration.
I've always had problems with fillers and painitng in general until I took the bite and got myself a compressor and a spray gun. After that only automotive 2k and from that point no more trouble with fillers not filling up properly, not drying up properly and etc. Never again will I go back to spray cans. Since you're heavily into DIY, I recommend to get a startet kit and give it go. You probably won't regret it.
I produce laser cut RC airplanes. CA is too brittle for magnets. When they smack together the CA cracks and eventually lets go. Burnish slightly with fine sandpaper, then glue in with epoxy. The epoxy is just flexible enough to take the shocks without cracking.
Nice project! Though I will disagree with the statement that rears are "effects speakers", plenty of prolific composers working in quad. You also seemed to be placing a rear in a bookshelf at the side of the couch (judging by the voice-over), not even pointing at your ear, and not even at ear height. Am I wrong with that?
pvc pipe glue work very well for me (better than superglue on pla)
9:22 next fashion trend
I somehow want to see a comparison of different filaments now .. does abs sound vastly different from pla? how about this wood-pla? maybe that one could in fact be sanded down directly.
Hi Thomas -- I believe you should use proper speaker cloth. This will clean up your top-end. Those drivers are actually pretty good.
One thing to note about making the masks and medical use items is that they have minimum requirements for how you do the item. People need to look at that and make sure they are following the procedure required. It would suck for all your parts to get trashed because you didn't do one small thing that they need you to do. The requirements are not extreme, but must be followed. These are to keep people alive after all.
is it possible that I can print these? if so, would you be able to give me the link to these? I would love to print these off, love the way that you have made them
One question.. Do I need to do some kind of programming to get the surround sound experience?
Thomas haveyver used epoxy spray paint on a model? to avoid having to use filler and sanding.
I did not understand how do you link all bluetooth speakers to your receiver? Do you have any bluetooth device which sends signal from rear channel to the speakers?
I am currently looking how to make my small rear wired speakers wireless / bluetooth by adding bluetooth receiver + amplifier and batteries to them but I can not figure out a way how to send them a signal from 5.1 receiver from rear channels.
why do you wash them after printing? Also what sub is in that large cabinet?
I have good luck with CA glue and magnets by cleaning them with IPA and wearing nitrile gloves while I assemble. It keeps oils from your skin from getting between the magnet and the glue.
@Thomas Sanladerer ....an Excellent Chemical Weld for PLA can be obtained by using Methylene Chloride!!!....can even be used for surface smoothing!!!
Regarding your crossover circuitry, there's a nifty circuit called a "Zobel Network" that you would attach across the terminals of your Mid-Woofer....basically the circuit consists of a non-polarized capacitor in series with a non-inductive resistor placed in parallel across the terminals of the Mid-Woofer. This circuit basically keeps the impedance flat as the frequency rises and gives you an even frequency response across the spectrum of that component!!! It's so simple that you don't even have to re-configure your existing crossovers that you've already designed and installed!!! CHEERS!!!
fookingsoc DCM (methylene chloride) is highly toxic.
He mentioned that he tried solvent welding, CA and Epoxy. Yet prefered to use the epoxy, probably because of the distortion.
nice lautsprechers. Why not use ABS or ASA and use aceton for smoothing?
any schematics of the subwooffer?
Hexibase is a great channel.
Those would look good with the Stone Textured spray paint.
Are you using onshape again instead of inventor fusion?
So that you know: surround systems "post-Dolby-Pro-Logic" have full range rear channels ;-) Nice project though !! You can stil print a set of new rear speakers.
Dropping the speakers in from the front might be better if you need to replace them or access the crossovers.