Finding God not only brings happiness but knowledge and with knowledge we thirst for more knowlege to find more truths ( peices to the puzzle) ... that is what is making me happy.
Great presentation! After hearing the first question in Q&A, it dawned on me that Christian Universalism could be seen as the logical end of Calvinism or Divine Determinism. Consider it for a moment using analogia Scriptura: if one believes that God chooses before the foundation of the world those who will be saved (Eph. 1:3); and if "all" that the father gives Christ "shall come" to him in the end (John 6:37), it should cohere quite well with the claim that Christ is the propitiation for the sins "of the whole world" (I John 2:2). In this case, "Limited atonement" would become "Unlimited atonement." Understandably, this would mess the petals in your tidy, TULIP acronym up a bit, but would still affirm "particular atonement" in that Christ's blood would atone specifically for those he came to save, which happens to be "all." After all, we are told that Christ desires for "all" to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (I Tim. 2:4). This new "Calvinist Universalism" also reconciles verses which seem to be contradictory (i.e., some verses present the atonement as having been applied to "all" [Romans 5:18, I Timothy 4:10, I John 2:2] and others are clear that salvation only comes to those who embrace Christ [John 14:6, II Thess. 1:7-9]. Just a thought!
It also answers the questions asked such as, what happens to those who die who never got to hear the gospel? There is no back and forth of whether or not they will go to hell.
I offer the category title of “Limitless Atonement” to preserve the tidy petals 😂 In all seriousness though, excellent points (and that’s coming from me, a Calvinist who is starting to understand that it was I who was limiting God’s atonement). Peace and Grace!
Here's one scripture that will, all by itself, take an hour and twenty minutes ( almost eternal sermonic punishment lol) down to about four seconds. Lamentations 3:31"For no one is cast off by the Lord forever" Case closed
@@zhariahneville8705 fair, but the verse also shows God's character when dealing with people who are suffering due to the just consequences of their own actions; still, He loves them. Still, He cares for them. God's character and love - in judgement and in mercy - doesn't change, even when we hurt each other and ourselves. He doesn't cast off forever - not simply because of some current life circumstances that compel Him to not cast them off forever. He doesn't cast off forever simply because that's not who He is, in this life or the next. There is no shadow of turning, and there is no darkness in Him at all. I hope that helps, I don't mean to start a debate or argument. God's love and peace to you 💗💗💗
@@zhariahneville8705 Given that almost none of the Old Testament even talks about the afterlife Jesus' coming would not be good news and verses like "His anger lasts a moment but his favor lasts a lifetime" Eternal Conscious Torment cannot be rationally justified.
I now believe that sin didn't interrupt the progression towards God, on the contrary it makes us discovered His indiscriminated love and mercy. I believe that sin and evil was in God's plan. " O felix culpa quae taem ac tantum meruit habere" Even just by that statment we realise how precious souls are to God... and the purpose of redemption shall be fulfilled in all.
The good news is we can live in Yeshua. The great news is our unrepentant loved ones aren’t in eternal torment. They were not comfortable around us in the flesh
Just on that last question from the man that his Dad did not seem to go God's way. I have gone through some of God's judgement in my life where as God was trying to bring me around to the correct way of thinking. One night in a dream I saw my older brother who was not a christian when he died at 68 years old in the dream he looked like he was a young man maybe 30 years old or so. This was 9 years after his death. I believe that he had gone through time in for the want of a better word hell. I tend to think that he is now in Heaven because if he was in hell he would not be allowed come to me from hell. Just my thoughts. Another one my wife's Dad died and she saw her dad in a dream as he hurried along the seen was in darkness my wife tried to catch up to him but he hurried away into a house. Some time latter my sister in law had a dream of him dressed in white looking happier and was about to go up a stair way. I believe that he was going to heaven
I think a God allowed sin and the fall for a greater good we won’t understand until the next life.Nobody asked to be born in sin and have a fallen nature.The result of the fall was a loss of free will.We only became free once we are in Christ,and each person is on the road to freedom,some take longer then others.For Christ to save one and not all would be injustice,as nobody can save themselves.,and nobody asked to be in a helpless condition.Even a sinner who converts and says yes is because of Gods saving grace,and not their own power,otherwise one would be God. Luke 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
I AM A CONVINCED UNIVERSALIST by William Barclay I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. In the early days Origen was the great name connected with universalism. I would believe with Origen that universalism is no easy thing. Origen believed that after death there were many who would need prolonged instruction, the sternest discipline, even the severest punishment before they were fit for the presence of God. Origen did not eliminate hell; he believed that some people would have to go to heaven via hell. He believed that even at the end of the day there would be some on whom the scars remained. He did not believe in eternal punishment, but he did see the possibility of eternal penalty. And so the choice is whether we accept God's offer and invitation willingly, or take the long and terrible way round through ages of purification. Gregory of Nyssa offered three reasons why he believed in universalism. First, he believed in it because of the character of God. "Being good, God entertains pity for fallen man; being wise, he is not ignorant of the means for his recovery." Second, he believed in it because of the nature of evil. Evil must in the end be moved out of existence, "so that the absolutely non-existent should cease to be at all." Evil is essentially negative and doomed to non-existence. Third, he believed in it because of the purpose of punishment. The purpose of punishment is always remedial. Its aim is "to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness." Punishment will hurt, but it is like the fire which separates the alloy from the gold; it is like the surgery which removes the diseased thing; it is like the cautery which burns out that which cannot be removed any other way. But I want to set down not the arguments of others but the thoughts which have persuaded me personally of universal salvation. First, there is the fact that there are things in the New Testament which more than justify this belief. Jesus said: "I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself" (John 12:32). Paul writes to the Romans: "God has consigned all men to disobedience that he may have mercy on all" (Rom. 11:32). He writes to the Corinthians: "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22); and he looks to the final total triumph when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:28). In the First Letter to Timothy we read of God "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth," and of Christ Jesus "who gave himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:4-6). The New Testament itself is not in the least afraid of the word all. Second, one of the key passages is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life. The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment. The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato - who may have invented the word - plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to out it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God. Eternal punishment is then literally that kind of remedial punishment which it befits God to give and which only God can give. Third, I believe that it is impossible to set limits to the grace of God. I believe that not only in this world, but in any other world there may be, the grace of God is still effective, still operative, still at work. I do not believe that the operation of the grace of God is limited to this world. I believe that the grace of God is as wide as the universe. Fourth, I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things will be subject to him, and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:24-28). For me this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside the love of God at the end of time, it means that that one man has defeated the love of God - and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of God. If God was no more than a King or Judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if his enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only King and Judge, God is Father - he is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family for ever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all his family back home. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God. [Quoted from William Barclay: A Spiritual Autobiography, pg 65-67, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, 1977.]
How could repeated punishment ever cause anybody to love and accept God? If He keeps hurting them and threatening them, then they will just remain resistant. The only way to draw a fearful person to yourself is to show them that you love them. Beatings and punishment cause anger and bitterness rather than love and appreciate.
@@JesusIsAboveAllOtherNames I see it more as healing. We need to be healed of our sin. Last night I watched The Impossible, and what it took to bring Maria to safety and put her on the path to wellness almost made ME hurt, just looking at it. But it was the only way to save her. I couldn't help but relate that story to what it might be like for many of us who get "swept away" by evil and need to be restored. In the end, Maria was grateful and thankful in spite of her horrendous ordeal.
What do you think of Jude 1:6? Jude seems to use the word for eternal “adios” to describe hell. Even YLT says “everlasting” chains. If you can get back I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts.
the more i look into universal salvation the more hopeful i am in it. Im currently an annihilationist but universalism has some good biblical AND philosophical backing.
It has excellent historical backing, too. :) Read: Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During Its First 500 Years by J. W. Hansen (a 19th Century scholar) for some great details on the historical roots. That's a hugely useful read, though you have to wade through the 200 pages to find a bunch of really powerful evidences. It'd be really difficult for someone to honestly reject Universalism after reading that book. Hope Beyond Hell is another great one, too, and At the End of the Ages (that one's a small book).
I had to take a good hard look at the two myself. What it came down to was the simple fact that if even a single human being isn't resurrected and given permanent life, then death would be victorious. I now see others in a completely different light, I'm no longer able to write anyone off, because I know Papa doesn't. All will be restored.
People say but without the threat of hell then why bother doing the right thing? With universal salvation you try and do the right thing despite there not being a horrible end because true love doesn't need the threat of consequences. You just want to do right by God because you love him. If you could cheat on your wife and get away with it would you? No because you love her so much that you wouldn't want to. If the only reason you love/ and or faithful to your wife or God is because of the consequences of not doing so, do you even really love them?
If universalism is true and even evil murderers, rapists, extortionists, robbers, child molesters etc., will all get saved, what is the point of living this life as a law abiding citizen? Why live a life knowing your children might die before you due to a drunk driver? Or your wife or sister is raped and traumatized? Why go through 60 or 70 years of life filled with more pain than joy? Why have a police department to prevent crime and apprehend criminals?! If suicide isn’t won’t send you to Hades, why don’t we just end our life today?
@@Landis_GrantWhy do YOU put strict limits on God's Grace? Until you realize ALL of us, ANY of us, could be a Hitler or child molester given the "right" circumstances, you do not understand human depravity and the universal need for a Savior!
I think I have an adequate answer for the audience member's question at 1:01:25 "How do you conceive of the flood of Noah within that framework, where He did destroy people, not only as its own event, but as a type of the coming judgment?" Well Genesis 8:21 NASB we read: "The Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and *I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done."* now to say the destruction of all but the remnant in Noah's day was a picture of the Judgment is inaccurate by God's own declaration at the end of Chapter 8. We see that He specifically declares otherwise! This is because in His turning aside from destroying all mankind (and the animal kingdom) when Noah found favor in God's eye, all of mankind again found favor. I know it's hard to picture the very real destruction of most of man and beast as a testimony to God's not giving up on us, but that's exactly what the story represents. Noah and his family represent the whole of humanity as much as the pairs of animals represent the whole of their species. As Thomas Talbott puts it in his book The Inescapable Love Of God, "it was not a mere tautology that Paul here defended; something like, “a remnant, chosen by grace, proves that God has not rejected the remnant, chosen by grace.” Instead, *the “remnant, chosen by grace,” proves that God has not rejected the whole of which the remnant is a part."* Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying, 9 “Now behold, I Myself do establish *My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you; 10 and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth. 11 I establish My covenant with you;* and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth.” 12 God said, “This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, *for all successive generations;* 13 I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of *a covenant between Me and the earth.* 14 It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud, 15 and I will remember My covenant, which is *between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh;* and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember *the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.”* 17 And God said to Noah, “This is the sign of *the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth.”* Genesis 9:8-18 NASB I think this answers that question.
Check out the channel: GoodGod I believe Yahweh is a god who tried to BE God the Father in the OT. It explains all the contradictions of Gods character....because it wasn't God the Father. Why would God, for example, have us not kill/murder but then murder people himself? Why did OT prophets describe seeing and talking to God but Jesus himself said "no one has seen the Father..."? It's quite alarming and amazing....
I have a question for all of you that believe that hell is a place of eternal torture; We are lead to believe that the second death is the death of death itself. So, by that rationale, anyone who is thrown into the lake of fire, must be there, in abject agony without reprieve or mercy. Screaming in torture for eternity. Think about that for a while. I lost my wife 17yrs ago. She was a pediatric nurse. Mostly working with the terminally ill kids.. She was an amazing nurse,the kids absolutely gravitated to her. She was well loved and respected by her colleagues. She was gentle, kind, selfless and she glowed with love. For everyone regardless of who they were. She ardently believed that love heals everyone and everything. She had read the bible and rejected it because of the teachings about hell and also about the nature of god, especially the god of the old testament. Now, i believe beyond any doubt that Jesus is the Messiah. I believe that he was who he claimed to be and i believe that he died and rose on the 3rd day. I have total faith in that. But it is absolutely clear, no matter what our brother Robin teaches here, that Jesus didn't die for all, but only those who believe, repent and have faith. So, accordingly, my wife is currently awaiting her judgement, And the sentence (Re;the first chapter of this comment) is death. Death shall be abolished in the lake of fire. Hence, she will spend eternity there. It is claimed that god is love. Can any one of you tell me that my wife deserves her torture? And how can heaven be heaven for me as a saved soul, when i will spend every second knowing that my wife is screaming out for me to help her. Although knowing her, she would be trying to comfort the person next to her. Universalism is a beutiful concept, but it is not scripturaly safe in it's supposition. I have rejected Christianity and have prayed from my heart that i be unsaved. I can no longer serve your god knowing that gentle hearted people are perpetually tortured simply because of thier sexuality,athiesm or even agnosticism. Is this a god of love that you serve, or are you creating your god in your own image?
@Peter E Hi, Peter. And as you well know, i could offer you as many scriptures that would suggest that it isn't. I still believe, nothing can change that. But i do question the nature of God. I have always understood Marcion's dilemma. I share it. To be frank, i am surprised that i find myself in this position. My faith was once very strong. It started weakening after my wife died and has has become weaker through the years. We used to debate the nature of our creator quite regularly. She was agnostic, but flatly refused to believe that the god of the Bible is a god of love and i couldn't convince her otherwise. She would always point out the seeming unjustice of the punishments we see for breaking the law,especially the command that a man be stoned to death simply for picking up sticks on the sabbath. Many more, that you'll be quite aware of. I know all of the apologetics arguments and some still give me a little hope. But it's very little. The only person that can answer my questions, albeit that he has absolutely no obligation to do so, is God himself. I have far fewer days ahead of me than i have behind me, so i suppose I'll know, or not as the case my be, soon enough. Peace be with you my friend.
If I could just pick theological positions based off of what I liked I would definitely pick this one. Not saying there's no good or reason for what he's saying other than it sounds nice. But just that if I could pick positions without doing homework I would pick this one.
At 13.00 all this are from Him snd for Him - all creation reaching completion in God... will God bring all things to their ultimate destiny to be filled with God. Does this include all creation? The devil and all the demons, fallen angels? Are they not a part of creation too?
Just as suprising was the salvation of man will the judgment of man be. We speak on these matters with authority, but honestly we dont know what we are talking about. Whatever God chooses it will be right.
Exactly. It's all just speculation. There's no proof of the universalism view nor the annihilationistic view. According to the Bible there's only proof of eternal torment. If you believe the Bible then you already know the truth, and that God is evil, sadistic and psychotic. He's gonna throw me and billions of others in a place of torment. Even if it only lasted a year that would be horrible.
@@JesusIsAboveAllOtherNames Life on earth is not easy. We have already gone through our times of torment, some more than others. But we are all broken individuals, the reason being that every household, every school, every location where there are people has sin in it -- because we have all sinned and fall short of God's holiness. We have all been sinned against by people throughout our lives, and we all sin against ourselves when we beat ourselves up with negative thinking, etc. Jesus came to set us free from that brokenness and give us eternal life, abundant life, not just for eternity but also for our time on earth. God said he's not willing that any should perish (be destroyed) but that all would come to repentance -- realize that we are in a state of sin because of our brokenness and cry out for Jesus' deliverance. If you would like scriptures, I would love to provide them for you. 💗
May I suggest we all take Jesus' words seriously that except we be converted and become as little children we shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
@@montyburnsgaming3609 He meant become AS little children to enter into heaven to enjoy its benefits now while here upon earth. Most will be judged and cleansed and purified in the lake of fire to be there for eons to be chastened, after the great white throne judgment, before being raised to new life to be reconciled to God. All will be saved: Does that actually mean go to heaven? I don't think so. Revelation says of many worshipping BEFORE the throne ( they are not seated with Christ IN his throne). The throne is heaven. ("Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool"). Revelation says of the overcomers that only they will have the privilege of being seated IN Christ's throne.
people seem to limit Gods saving grace to this life. They deny his omnipotence that possibly He does mercifully give a chance,after punishment and pruning of sinful nature, to rejoice and join Him in love of the next eternal life. But this is where im in between annihilationism and universalism. Some may outright reject the offer. in which i believe God in his everlong love for his creation and His mercy He will annihilate all that which does NOT want to be reconciled to God.
Kyle Otero There is biblical evidence of post mortem belief. Check out these verses... 1 Peter 4 5Who shall give account to him that is ready to *judge the quick and the dead.* 6For for this cause was the *gospel preached ALSO to them that are dead,* that they might be *judged* according to men in the flesh, *but live according to God in the spirit.* 1 Peter 3 19By which also *he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;* 20Which sometime *were disobedient,* when once the longsuffering of God waited *in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing,* wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. John 11 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, *though he were dead,* yet shall *he live:* 26And whosoever *liveth* and believeth in me *shall never die.* Believest thou this? 1 Cor. 5 5To deliver such an one unto Satan *for the destruction of the flesh,* that *the spirit MAY BE saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.*
Here's the best answer found in Romans chpt 5: Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. Other verses before and after this one make reference to those who accept it NOW, which shows a life lived here in victory after victory. Clearly many or most will be saved by the skin of their teeth or at the last minute. But all will be saved!
Must tpthe history of the Earth remain eternally in a theological blindspot ? We badly need a widespread *revelation* of the Earth as the proper object of the sense of Dvinity
Jim Brosius. You make a very important point. It cannot be that God does not love any of His creatures. If Satan is beyond redemption because of his hatred of God and goodness, is it possible that human beings can become satanised and so fixed in hatred for God and goodness that they make themselves incapable of receiving God's love? I think the universalists don't take seriously enough just how much people may harden themselves so that love means nothing to them.
I would love for Apokatastasis to be true, but I keep wondering how it could be true when I see men and women in this life absolutely despising God, actively pursuing evil with lust, hating the Christian faith, and hardening their hearts against all truth. I agree with the Universalists that there is no way that Christ will maintain through all eternity a place of torment wherein men and women will curse and hate God forever. Christ came to destroy sin, not to make it live forever. Therefore, I am starting to turn away from Apokatastasis and accept the idea of Conditional Immortality. God punishes the wicked, who curse, hate, and spit at Him until their punishment is over, and then He annihilates them. I don't want that to be true, but I fail to see how people who are so deeply evil can find repentance if they don't pursue it in this life.
Certain words have not been translated coorectly as with hell, eternal, forever, church...which have given us a twisted understanding of the gospel message. The Total Victory in Christ TH-cam channel does a decent job.
What about Jews? Are they saved? Or annihilated? After all, if they're right and we're wrong, then we're screwed. However, if we're right and they're wrong, then what? Is God going to punish them eternally because they had a sincere belief in God that they were taught from childhood, and followed that belief earnestly? If God truly meets people where they're at, then doesn't that shed more light on at least the hope for Apokatastasis? I don't know if you've read or watched David Bently Hart, but he is a good source and has good information on this topic.
@@1234567mrbob Paul was so distraught over his fellow Jews’ rejection of their messiah that he wished himself accursed for their sakes Romans 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,
@@Landis_Grant Back in the early days of the Internet there was a rule called "Godwin's Rule" that said anyone who brought up Hitler or Nazis in a debate automatically loses the debate. "Hitler" was everybody's "nuclear option" when they were backed against the wall in a political argument. I get mixed message from Jews. I have heard rabbis say they "don't believe in hell", yet others claim that some people who don't make peace with God will lose their salvation forever. I've never heard any Jew use the word "hell". As far as I can tell, there is only one passage in the Old Testament (Jewish Bible) that refers to something that could be called "hell" by implication. Daniel 12:2, "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting shame and contempt". It doesn't actually "say" they go to hell, but everlasting shame and contempt can certainly be construed as such. I have not seen any other passages that either implicitly or explicitly refer to hell. While most Jews may or may not believe that some go to everlasting punishment, there is a huge difference with Christians. According to Rabbi Michael Skobac, whose videos I watch extensively, the purpose of "Gehenna" (the Jewish word for "hell"), is rehabilitative and restorative. People go there to be cleansed. He says it's like a hospital; no one wants to go there but thank God we have them. There are some people who are so wicked that they can't be restored, such as Hitler, and that may be who Daniel is referring to. However, I sense that while Jews may believe in some form of eternal punishment, it is rare and very few people get it. If the purpose of Gehenna is to restore, then it cannot be said that every human being's last call for salvation is the moment of their death. In Christian theology, where hell is punishment and not rehabilitation, every human being has his or her eternal fate sealed at the moment of death. For Jews, that logically cannot be true if Gehenna's purpose is to rehabilitate.
Here's my take as one who knows much bible ...but not found in bible: God's love has to agree or be the same or greater than our command to love, as 1corintian teaches what love is. If the love God calls us to love our enemies, then his love must be greater yet! (God is not a man so I use the word loosely). God's love IS UNCONDITIONAL! But you will not find it in scripture. Next .. I'm not a universalist by name and I've never heard another say this: "If we didn't get the choice to sin (meaning simply 'missing the mark)', then why do we now have to make a choice about our eternal place?! One scripture: Where sin abounds, grace does more abound. But better yet. If by one man's sin entered the world ... How much more shall not ALL be saved by this one man Jesus. I kinda paraphrased this one. But ...look it up. 🤓
God wills that all men be saved, God's (Jesus's) mission was to save all men (sinners), God (Jesus) is love, love never fails. google any of the previous for multiple scriptures.There you go, an hour and twenty minutes down to a minute hahaha
nev billett Hello there! Glad we both serve a great God of love! :) I have a thought maybe you can help. I don’t think that God *always* gets what he wants. I think he wants us to live free from sin, but that sadly does not happen. So if I see this right, sometimes God’s mission doesn’t always take place. I don’t think he failed, I just think he allows them to choose. ✌️
22:37-knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires 2 Peter 3: 3 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God. John 3: 5 the more crowd laughs the more his tongue flicks like a serpent this spirit cannot even hide how much he enjoy to mock God but "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6: 7 please wake up repent and read the Bible
@@2growdaily181 2:15-"christ under us" just by this demonic prayer you should have understood what spirit is working in this man he teaches another christ that he can command as he wants since it was not a prayer to the True God but instead it was a wicked man giving orders to his "christ"! Nowhere in the Gospel we can find this type of pagan prayer in which Apostles would dare to give orders to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Please repent turn away from sin and this demonic teachings! Read the Bible because you're in deep sleep ask God to wake you up so you don't lose your soul.
@@volodymyrvolf3889 Your judgement is clearly clouding your ability to hear. In that prayer he describes Christ as a light completely surrounding us with his love and protection, under us, over us, and all around us. How can you twist his words to mean that we are putting ourselves over Christ, which is what you are implying. If you are going to make a critique, please address his points, which you failed to do.
@@2growdaily181 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Colossians 3: 1 My judgement is based on God's Word. The things that this man saying goes against the Bible if you can't see it you are in the deep sleep wake up please repent turn away from sin and from this demonic teachings cause if you don't you'll lose your soul. Start reading the Bible and God will show you Way out. I wish you the same that i wish myself salvation i hope Lord Jesus Christ will show you His great mercy just like He showed it to me and even more.
@@volodymyrvolf3889 I assume you have good intentions, and that is why you are admonishing me. He spoke from the Bible and clearly stated that Christ is the only way to salvation, and you failed to address any of his other points. Please be specific and state where you think he was wrong and why. Then we can have a much more fruitful conversation.
I don't think that God inflicts anything on man, we are the one who choose it by disobeying or going against God. Seems to me that you are over complicating a simple thing according to scripture, makes it all confusing it's always been about mans freedom to choose God or not. Eternal life and our immortality or eternal damnation, because even though Jesus defeated sin, Satan and death, it doesn't mean they don't still exist and the people who choose that system. I don't believe that God loves the ungodly any less and continues to show mercy to all of us, but He would never force anyone to love or believe on Him.
217maka Yes, I am saying that it is our choice, once we've been exposed to, or have knowledge of who God is. You're talking about Saul, but if mankind in general, did not have a will to choose relationship with God or not....how do you explain Adam, or atheism, or why the world is full of so much corruption and evil even though we are all created by God in His image and exist in & by Him? I agree with you that once we truly see God for who He is, and get to know Him, (like Saul did), we naturally fall in love with Him, but sadly, some are blinded to the truth by religion, or Christianity, and tend to equate those labels with Gods love, and forfeit the opportunity to build a real relationship with Him; but God always makes Himself available to us, because He loves us unconditionally, wether we acknowledge it or not. Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🤗❤
217maka Did God use Satan to blind Adam too? or did he choose the tree of knowledge of good and evil of his own volition? I believe that God is love, and light, there is no darkness in Him, so he wouldn't use Satan to blind any one. Adam had perfect fellowship with the Godhead in the garden but chose the tree, even though God warned him against it. I also think that God is in all humans, and that He created us with a desire or longing to know Him, a void that only He can fill upon our choosing to acknowledge that He is Lord and by opening our hearts to relationship with Him. Its a matter of us hearing Him, (faith comes by hearing) Jesus, and REturning to Him, but if we aren't open to hearing and believing Him, how can we be saved when we don't believe the truth about who we are, or how God sees us? Sin causes us to forget who God created us to be, faith, causes us to remember.....hmmmm? 🤔
creates evil? The Hebrew word here could be translated "cut down or dispatch" If there is no evil in God, he cannot make it. I am not sure where you would get the idea that Adam was supposed to fall... "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all". To say he makes evil just doesn't make sense. Evil is merely the absence of good, just like sickness is the absence of health. You cure a person, the sickness doesn't up and walk somewhere else, so to speaks, it simply ceases to exist.
217 you are absolutely right ----when you say: I think if anyone actually met God it would be impossible to not love him, so is it not more of a question of some see him and are given no choice but to love him (Saul's conversion on road to Damascus), i.e. who on earth could resist, and the remainder for what ever reason can not/have not seen him and therefore cannot actually be said to choose not to love him as they are ignorant of the very God who they are said to be rejecting. According to all Near Death Experiences and I myself studied over 150 of them during my Psychology degree, there were many athiests that accepted christ after meeting him face to face, Howard Storm being one that is a pastor now, the fact that these people that don't believe now when they see him face to face do believe and cannot fall in love with him however according to Swedenborg (a seer of the 1700s) he said even so there are those that turn toward their ruling love and away from the Lord and the angels and these spirits gravitate toward lower levels (known as the hells) but rather communities of like spirits. Birds of a feather flock together so to speak. No one is thrown in hell, the spirit chooses to move to these neighborhoods naturally. We all end up in like communities according to our ruling loves so be the best person you can while on earth and of pure spirit as a child so your ruling love is a good one of faith and charity. We can all improve on the other side but why not start at a good point to begin with.
Also the problem with anhiilation is that all are sinners... and to anhiilate sin through anhiilation then all have to be anhiilated ... even after we choose Christ we can sin and sin abide in us because we cannot be perfect until the total new creation of the second Adam at resurrection.. i mean we still have the tendency to sin... it is not until the resurrection that we' ll take on the full nature of Christ? That is why Christ have taken the full sentence on the Cross for all humanity. I hope i make sense. There is a lot to say on the subject. I am receiving so many insights.
Don't you guys think the doctrine of universalism is dangerous? This will cause nobody to be afraid of death, and try go murder, rape, steal, deceive, lie, and commit all sorts of other sins. Why? Because they believe that no matter what evil they do, they are going to be with God in heaven no matter what.
People say but without the threat of hell then why bother bother doing the right thing? With universal salvation you try and do the right thing despite there not being a horrible end because true love doesn't need the threat of consequences. You just want to do right by God because you love him. If you could cheat on your wife and get away with it would you? No because you love her so much that you wouldn't want to. If the only reason you love/ and or faithful to your wife or God is because of the consequences of not doing so, do you even really love them?
@@muscleprotein With your line of thinking, why should we elect officials who are gung ho about fighting crime? If our daughter is raped, so what? If we got ripped off in a real estate investment, let it be. If Russia or China invades us, let them shoot us in the head. Universalism promotes evil and lawlessness and ironically, the universalist’s “love wins” slogan is a sham as the love of many waxes cold due to the proliferation of evil.
Hell is described as eternal and not even close to being worth the finite life of sin we live now and so people will want to avoid it because it still sucks to go to Hell regardless.
"I don't want to risk screwing up my doctrine of God, just so I can hold onto a doctrine of Hell." Thank you
Same here
Finding God not only brings happiness but knowledge and with knowledge we thirst for more knowlege to find more truths ( peices to the puzzle) ... that is what is making me happy.
Great presentation! After hearing the first question in Q&A, it dawned on me that Christian Universalism could be seen as the logical end of Calvinism or Divine Determinism. Consider it for a moment using analogia Scriptura: if one believes that God chooses before the foundation of the world those who will be saved (Eph. 1:3); and if "all" that the father gives Christ "shall come" to him in the end (John 6:37), it should cohere quite well with the claim that Christ is the propitiation for the sins "of the whole world" (I John 2:2). In this case, "Limited atonement" would become "Unlimited atonement." Understandably, this would mess the petals in your tidy, TULIP acronym up a bit, but would still affirm "particular atonement" in that Christ's blood would atone specifically for those he came to save, which happens to be "all." After all, we are told that Christ desires for "all" to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (I Tim. 2:4). This new "Calvinist Universalism" also reconciles verses which seem to be contradictory (i.e., some verses present the atonement as having been applied to "all" [Romans 5:18, I Timothy 4:10, I John 2:2] and others are clear that salvation only comes to those who embrace Christ [John 14:6, II Thess. 1:7-9]. Just a thought!
It also answers the questions asked such as, what happens to those who die who never got to hear the gospel? There is no back and forth of whether or not they will go to hell.
I offer the category title of “Limitless Atonement” to preserve the tidy petals 😂 In all seriousness though, excellent points (and that’s coming from me, a Calvinist who is starting to understand that it was I who was limiting God’s atonement). Peace and Grace!
@@christophersbyershaha limitless atonement is good one 😂
Here's one scripture that will, all by itself, take an hour and twenty minutes ( almost eternal sermonic punishment lol) down to about four seconds. Lamentations 3:31"For no one is cast off by the Lord forever" Case closed
That verse seems to be talking about real life affliction. So i don’t know if it can be applied to the afterlife and punishment 🤷♀️.
@@zhariahneville8705 fair, but the verse also shows God's character when dealing with people who are suffering due to the just consequences of their own actions; still, He loves them. Still, He cares for them. God's character and love - in judgement and in mercy - doesn't change, even when we hurt each other and ourselves. He doesn't cast off forever - not simply because of some current life circumstances that compel Him to not cast them off forever. He doesn't cast off forever simply because that's not who He is, in this life or the next. There is no shadow of turning, and there is no darkness in Him at all.
I hope that helps, I don't mean to start a debate or argument. God's love and peace to you 💗💗💗
@@anahata3478 true!
@Charles Edward Cheese 11 seconds wasted
@@zhariahneville8705 Given that almost none of the Old Testament even talks about the afterlife Jesus' coming would not be good news and verses like "His anger lasts a moment but his favor lasts a lifetime" Eternal Conscious Torment cannot be rationally justified.
I now believe that sin didn't interrupt the progression towards God, on the contrary it makes us discovered His indiscriminated love and mercy.
I believe that sin and evil was in God's plan. " O felix culpa quae taem ac tantum meruit habere"
Even just by that statment we realise how precious souls are to God... and the purpose of redemption shall be fulfilled in all.
Great talk, many things to think and pray about.
The good news is we can live in Yeshua. The great news is our unrepentant loved ones aren’t in eternal torment. They were not comfortable around us in the flesh
This was absolutely fantastic.
Thanks a million for sharing this!!
Just on that last question from the man that his Dad did not seem to go God's way. I have gone through some of God's judgement in my life where as God was trying to bring me around to the correct way of thinking. One night in a dream I saw my older brother who was not a christian when he died at 68 years old in the dream he looked like he was a young man maybe 30 years old or so. This was 9 years after his death. I believe that he had gone through time in for the want of a better word hell. I tend to think that he is now in Heaven because if he was in hell he would not be allowed come to me from hell. Just my thoughts. Another one my wife's Dad died and she saw her dad in a dream as he hurried along the seen was in darkness my wife tried to catch up to him but he hurried away into a house. Some time latter my sister in law had a dream of him dressed in white looking happier and was about to go up a stair way. I believe that he was going to heaven
I think a God allowed sin and the fall for a greater good we won’t understand until the next life.Nobody asked to be born in sin and have a fallen nature.The result of the fall was a loss of free will.We only became free once we are in Christ,and each person is on the road to freedom,some take longer then others.For Christ to save one and not all would be injustice,as nobody can save themselves.,and nobody asked to be in a helpless condition.Even a sinner who converts and says yes is because of Gods saving grace,and not their own power,otherwise one would be God.
Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
I AM A CONVINCED UNIVERSALIST
by William Barclay
I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. In the early days Origen was the great name connected with universalism. I would believe with Origen that universalism is no easy thing. Origen believed that after death there were many who would need prolonged instruction, the sternest discipline, even the severest punishment before they were fit for the presence of God. Origen did not eliminate hell; he believed that some people would have to go to heaven via hell. He believed that even at the end of the day there would be some on whom the scars remained. He did not believe in eternal punishment, but he did see the possibility of eternal penalty. And so the choice is whether we accept God's offer and invitation willingly, or take the long and terrible way round through ages of purification.
Gregory of Nyssa offered three reasons why he believed in universalism. First, he believed in it because of the character of God. "Being good, God entertains pity for fallen man; being wise, he is not ignorant of the means for his recovery." Second, he believed in it because of the nature of evil. Evil must in the end be moved out of existence, "so that the absolutely non-existent should cease to be at all." Evil is essentially negative and doomed to non-existence. Third, he believed in it because of the purpose of punishment. The purpose of punishment is always remedial. Its aim is "to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness." Punishment will hurt, but it is like the fire which separates the alloy from the gold; it is like the surgery which removes the diseased thing; it is like the cautery which burns out that which cannot be removed any other way.
But I want to set down not the arguments of others but the thoughts which have persuaded me personally of universal salvation.
First, there is the fact that there are things in the New Testament which more than justify this belief. Jesus said: "I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself" (John 12:32). Paul writes to the Romans: "God has consigned all men to disobedience that he may have mercy on all" (Rom. 11:32). He writes to the Corinthians: "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22); and he looks to the final total triumph when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:28). In the First Letter to Timothy we read of God "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth," and of Christ Jesus "who gave himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:4-6). The New Testament itself is not in the least afraid of the word all.
Second, one of the key passages is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life. The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment. The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato - who may have invented the word - plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to out it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God. Eternal punishment is then literally that kind of remedial punishment which it befits God to give and which only God can give.
Third, I believe that it is impossible to set limits to the grace of God. I believe that not only in this world, but in any other world there may be, the grace of God is still effective, still operative, still at work. I do not believe that the operation of the grace of God is limited to this world. I believe that the grace of God is as wide as the universe.
Fourth, I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things will be subject to him, and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:24-28). For me this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside the love of God at the end of time, it means that that one man has defeated the love of God - and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of God. If God was no more than a King or Judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if his enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only King and Judge, God is Father - he is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family for ever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all his family back home. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.
[Quoted from William Barclay: A Spiritual Autobiography, pg 65-67, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, 1977.]
How could repeated punishment ever cause anybody to love and accept God? If He keeps hurting them and threatening them, then they will just remain resistant. The only way to draw a fearful person to yourself is to show them that you love them. Beatings and punishment cause anger and bitterness rather than love and appreciate.
@@JesusIsAboveAllOtherNames I see it more as healing. We need to be healed of our sin. Last night I watched The Impossible, and what it took to bring Maria to safety and put her on the path to wellness almost made ME hurt, just looking at it. But it was the only way to save her. I couldn't help but relate that story to what it might be like for many of us who get "swept away" by evil and need to be restored. In the end, Maria was grateful and thankful in spite of her horrendous ordeal.
What do you think of Jude 1:6? Jude seems to use the word for eternal “adios” to describe hell. Even YLT says “everlasting” chains. If you can get back I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts.
the more i look into universal salvation the more hopeful i am in it. Im currently an annihilationist but universalism has some good biblical AND philosophical backing.
It has excellent historical backing, too. :) Read: Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During Its First 500 Years by J. W. Hansen (a 19th Century scholar) for some great details on the historical roots. That's a hugely useful read, though you have to wade through the 200 pages to find a bunch of really powerful evidences. It'd be really difficult for someone to honestly reject Universalism after reading that book. Hope Beyond Hell is another great one, too, and At the End of the Ages (that one's a small book).
ill def check them out thank you.
Kyle Otero Great! Good luck!
I had to take a good hard look at the two myself. What it came down to was the simple fact that if even a single human being isn't resurrected and given permanent life, then death would be victorious. I now see others in a completely different light, I'm no longer able to write anyone off, because I know Papa doesn't. All will be restored.
Kyle.. why don't you *_just stick to scripture_* and buy a box of q-tips.
Transcript/paper of Robin Parry's talk: reforminghell.com/parry-burning-love/
Alex Smith has
People say but without the threat of hell then why bother doing the right thing?
With universal salvation you try and do the right thing despite there not being a horrible end because true love doesn't need the threat of consequences. You just want to do right by God because you love him.
If you could cheat on your wife and get away with it would you? No because you love her so much that you wouldn't want to. If the only reason you love/ and or faithful to your wife or God is because of the consequences of not doing so, do you even really love them?
If universalism is true and even evil murderers, rapists, extortionists, robbers, child molesters etc., will all get saved, what is the point of living this life as a law abiding citizen?
Why live a life knowing your children might die before you due to a drunk driver? Or your wife or sister is raped and traumatized? Why go through 60 or 70 years of life filled with more pain than joy?
Why have a police department to prevent crime and apprehend criminals?!
If suicide isn’t won’t send you to Hades, why don’t we just end our life today?
@@Landis_GrantWhy do YOU put strict limits on God's Grace? Until you realize ALL of us, ANY of us, could be a Hitler or child molester given the "right" circumstances, you do not understand human depravity and the universal need for a Savior!
Loved this
I think I have an adequate answer for the audience member's question at 1:01:25
"How do you conceive of the flood of Noah within that framework, where He did destroy people, not only as its own event, but as a type of the coming judgment?"
Well Genesis 8:21 NASB we read: "The Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and *I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done."* now to say the destruction of all but the remnant in Noah's day was a picture of the Judgment is inaccurate by God's own declaration at the end of Chapter 8. We see that He specifically declares otherwise!
This is because in His turning aside from destroying all mankind (and the animal kingdom) when Noah found favor in God's eye, all of mankind again found favor. I know it's hard to picture the very real destruction of most of man and beast as a testimony to God's not giving up on us, but that's exactly what the story represents. Noah and his family represent the whole of humanity as much as the pairs of animals represent the whole of their species.
As Thomas Talbott puts it in his book The Inescapable Love Of God, "it was not a mere tautology that Paul here defended; something like, “a remnant, chosen by grace, proves that God has not rejected the remnant, chosen by grace.” Instead, *the “remnant, chosen by grace,” proves that God has not rejected the whole of which the remnant is a part."*
Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying, 9 “Now behold, I Myself do establish *My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you; 10 and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth. 11 I establish My covenant with you;* and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth.” 12 God said, “This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, *for all successive generations;* 13 I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of *a covenant between Me and the earth.* 14 It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud, 15 and I will remember My covenant, which is *between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh;* and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember *the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.”* 17 And God said to Noah, “This is the sign of *the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth.”* Genesis 9:8-18 NASB
I think this answers that question.
Check out the channel: GoodGod
I believe Yahweh is a god who tried to BE God the Father in the OT. It explains all the contradictions of Gods character....because it wasn't God the Father. Why would God, for example, have us not kill/murder but then murder people himself? Why did OT prophets describe seeing and talking to God but Jesus himself said "no one has seen the Father..."? It's quite alarming and amazing....
That and given traditions like the harrowing of Hades it was little more than a timeout.
I have a question for all of you that believe that hell is a place of eternal torture;
We are lead to believe that the second death is the death of death itself.
So, by that rationale, anyone who is thrown into the lake of fire, must be there, in abject agony without reprieve or mercy.
Screaming in torture for eternity.
Think about that for a while.
I lost my wife 17yrs ago. She was a pediatric nurse. Mostly working with the terminally ill kids.. She was an amazing nurse,the kids absolutely gravitated to her. She was well loved and respected by her colleagues.
She was gentle, kind, selfless and she glowed with love. For everyone regardless of who they were.
She ardently believed that love heals everyone and everything.
She had read the bible and rejected it because of the teachings about hell and also about the nature of god, especially the god of the old
testament.
Now, i believe beyond any doubt that Jesus is the Messiah. I believe that he was who he claimed to be and i believe that he died and rose on the 3rd day.
I have total faith in that.
But it is absolutely clear, no matter what our brother Robin teaches here, that Jesus didn't die for all, but only those who believe, repent and have faith.
So, accordingly, my wife is currently awaiting her judgement,
And the sentence (Re;the first chapter of this comment) is death. Death shall be abolished in the lake of fire. Hence, she will spend eternity there.
It is claimed that god is love.
Can any one of you tell me that my wife deserves her torture?
And how can heaven be heaven for me as a saved soul, when i will spend every second knowing that my wife is screaming out for me to help her.
Although knowing her, she would be trying to comfort the person next to her.
Universalism is a beutiful concept, but it is not scripturaly safe in it's supposition.
I have rejected Christianity and have prayed from my heart that i be unsaved.
I can no longer serve your god knowing that gentle hearted people are perpetually tortured simply because of thier sexuality,athiesm or even agnosticism.
Is this a god of love that you serve, or are you creating your god in your own image?
@Peter E
Hi, Peter.
And as you well know, i could offer you as many scriptures that would suggest that it isn't.
I still believe, nothing can change that.
But i do question the nature of God.
I have always understood Marcion's dilemma.
I share it.
To be frank, i am surprised that i find myself in this position. My faith was once very strong. It started weakening after my wife died and has has become weaker through the years.
We used to debate the nature of our creator quite regularly.
She was agnostic, but flatly refused to believe that the god of the Bible is a god of love and i couldn't convince her otherwise.
She would always point out the seeming unjustice of the punishments we see for breaking the law,especially the command that a man be stoned to death simply for picking up sticks on the sabbath.
Many more, that you'll be quite aware of.
I know all of the apologetics arguments and some still give me a little hope.
But it's very little. The only person that can answer my questions, albeit that he has absolutely no obligation to do so, is God himself.
I have far fewer days ahead of me than i have behind me, so i suppose I'll know, or not as the case my be, soon enough.
Peace be with you my friend.
@@anahata3478
A truly Christian reply.
Bless you.x.
And thankyou.
If I could just pick theological positions based off of what I liked I would definitely pick this one. Not saying there's no good or reason for what he's saying other than it sounds nice. But just that if I could pick positions without doing homework I would pick this one.
@MrTmotheousWard And then there are the many of us who HAVE done our homework and arrived at Trinitarian Restorationism (Universal Reconciliation)
@@justin10292000 send me some arguments/ articles sounds interesting
At 13.00 all this are from Him snd for Him - all creation reaching completion in God...
will God bring all things to their ultimate destiny to be filled with God.
Does this include all creation? The devil and all the demons, fallen angels? Are they not a part of creation too?
Just as suprising was the salvation of man will the judgment of man be. We speak on these matters with authority, but honestly we dont know what we are talking about. Whatever God chooses it will be right.
Exactly. It's all just speculation. There's no proof of the universalism view nor the annihilationistic view. According to the Bible there's only proof of eternal torment. If you believe the Bible then you already know the truth, and that God is evil, sadistic and psychotic. He's gonna throw me and billions of others in a place of torment. Even if it only lasted a year that would be horrible.
@@JesusIsAboveAllOtherNames Life on earth is not easy. We have already gone through our times of torment, some more than others. But we are all broken individuals, the reason being that every household, every school, every location where there are people has sin in it -- because we have all sinned and fall short of God's holiness. We have all been sinned against by people throughout our lives, and we all sin against ourselves when we beat ourselves up with negative thinking, etc. Jesus came to set us free from that brokenness and give us eternal life, abundant life, not just for eternity but also for our time on earth. God said he's not willing that any should perish (be destroyed) but that all would come to repentance -- realize that we are in a state of sin because of our brokenness and cry out for Jesus' deliverance. If you would like scriptures, I would love to provide them for you. 💗
Wonderful, Robin!
The "big" question of "free will" : Unless we have complete knowledge of God it is IMPOSSIBLE to reject him: you can ONLY reject a caricature of him,
God keeps everyone in ignorance ..cant choose what you're not aware of
Yes!!
Or, you can turn towards the light you have been given. Not all the same for every person.
@Charles Edward Cheese what is?
@Charles Edward Cheese well he does..certain things about God aren't given to all people but only to those he chooses
May I suggest we all take Jesus' words seriously that except we be converted and become as little children we shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
I thought you believed everyone is going to heaven.
@@montyburnsgaming3609 He meant become AS little children to enter into heaven to enjoy its benefits now while here upon earth. Most will be judged and cleansed and purified in the lake of fire to be there for eons to be chastened, after the great white throne judgment, before being raised to new life to be reconciled to God. All will be saved: Does that actually mean go to heaven? I don't think so. Revelation says of many worshipping BEFORE the throne ( they are not seated with Christ IN his throne). The throne is heaven. ("Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool"). Revelation says of the overcomers that only they will have the privilege of being seated IN Christ's throne.
people seem to limit Gods saving grace to this life. They deny his omnipotence that possibly He does mercifully give a chance,after punishment and pruning of sinful nature, to rejoice and join Him in love of the next eternal life. But this is where im in between annihilationism and universalism. Some may outright reject the offer. in which i believe God in his everlong love for his creation and His mercy He will annihilate all that which does NOT want to be reconciled to God.
Kyle Otero There is biblical evidence of post mortem belief. Check out these verses...
1 Peter 4
5Who shall give account to him that is ready to *judge the quick and the dead.*
6For for this cause was the *gospel preached ALSO to them that are dead,* that they might be *judged* according to men in the flesh, *but live according to God in the spirit.*
1 Peter 3
19By which also *he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;* 20Which sometime *were disobedient,* when once the longsuffering of God waited *in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing,* wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
John 11
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, *though he were dead,* yet shall *he live:* 26And whosoever *liveth* and believeth in me *shall never die.* Believest thou this?
1 Cor. 5
5To deliver such an one unto Satan *for the destruction of the flesh,* that *the spirit MAY BE saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.*
@@johnnyquest1610 Maccabees and the Harrowing of Hell.
Here's the best answer found in Romans chpt 5:
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
Other verses before and after this one make reference to those who accept it NOW, which shows a life lived here in victory after victory.
Clearly many or most will be saved by the skin of their teeth or at the last minute. But all will be saved!
I wish the audio of this video was much better. It's like listening through a blown speaker.
Must tpthe history of the Earth remain eternally in a theological blindspot ? We badly need a widespread *revelation* of the Earth as the proper object of the sense of Dvinity
So, as part of creation, will Satan be redeemed?
Satan is not human, nor is he made in the Fathers image. All evil gone.
Jim Brosius. You make a very important point. It cannot be that God does not love any of His creatures. If Satan is beyond redemption because of his hatred of God and goodness, is it possible that human beings can become satanised and so fixed in hatred for God and goodness that they make themselves incapable of receiving God's love? I think the universalists don't take seriously enough just how much people may harden themselves so that love means nothing to them.
Of course, God's power is irresistible.
Yes God will reconcile all things back to himself. If the doctrine is true.
The only ppl i know that believe in hell are ones who know theyre not going.
I would love for Apokatastasis to be true, but I keep wondering how it could be true when I see men and women in this life absolutely despising God, actively pursuing evil with lust, hating the Christian faith, and hardening their hearts against all truth.
I agree with the Universalists that there is no way that Christ will maintain through all eternity a place of torment wherein men and women will curse and hate God forever. Christ came to destroy sin, not to make it live forever. Therefore, I am starting to turn away from Apokatastasis and accept the idea of Conditional Immortality. God punishes the wicked, who curse, hate, and spit at Him until their punishment is over, and then He annihilates them.
I don't want that to be true, but I fail to see how people who are so deeply evil can find repentance if they don't pursue it in this life.
Certain words have not been translated coorectly as with hell, eternal, forever, church...which have given us a twisted understanding of the gospel message. The Total Victory in Christ TH-cam channel does a decent job.
What about Jews? Are they saved? Or annihilated? After all, if they're right and we're wrong, then we're screwed. However, if we're right and they're wrong, then what? Is God going to punish them eternally because they had a sincere belief in God that they were taught from childhood, and followed that belief earnestly? If God truly meets people where they're at, then doesn't that shed more light on at least the hope for Apokatastasis? I don't know if you've read or watched David Bently Hart, but he is a good source and has good information on this topic.
@@1234567mrbob
Paul was so distraught over his fellow Jews’ rejection of their messiah that he wished himself accursed for their sakes
Romans 9:3
For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,
@@1234567mrbob Jews will never accept universalism that says even Adolph Hitler will end up in Heaven.
@@Landis_Grant Back in the early days of the Internet there was a rule called "Godwin's Rule" that said anyone who brought up Hitler or Nazis in a debate automatically loses the debate. "Hitler" was everybody's "nuclear option" when they were backed against the wall in a political argument.
I get mixed message from Jews. I have heard rabbis say they "don't believe in hell", yet others claim that some people who don't make peace with God will lose their salvation forever. I've never heard any Jew use the word "hell".
As far as I can tell, there is only one passage in the Old Testament (Jewish Bible) that refers to something that could be called "hell" by implication. Daniel 12:2, "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting shame and contempt". It doesn't actually "say" they go to hell, but everlasting shame and contempt can certainly be construed as such. I have not seen any other passages that either implicitly or explicitly refer to hell.
While most Jews may or may not believe that some go to everlasting punishment, there is a huge difference with Christians. According to Rabbi Michael Skobac, whose videos I watch extensively, the purpose of "Gehenna" (the Jewish word for "hell"), is rehabilitative and restorative. People go there to be cleansed. He says it's like a hospital; no one wants to go there but thank God we have them. There are some people who are so wicked that they can't be restored, such as Hitler, and that may be who Daniel is referring to. However, I sense that while Jews may believe in some form of eternal punishment, it is rare and very few people get it. If the purpose of Gehenna is to restore, then it cannot be said that every human being's last call for salvation is the moment of their death. In Christian theology, where hell is punishment and not rehabilitation, every human being has his or her eternal fate sealed at the moment of death. For Jews, that logically cannot be true if Gehenna's purpose is to rehabilitate.
Imago Dei is not about being rational. It about representing God in his Creation.
Here's my take as one who knows much bible ...but not found in bible:
God's love has to agree or be the same or greater than our command to love, as 1corintian teaches what love is.
If the love God calls us to love our enemies, then his love must be greater yet!
(God is not a man so I use the word loosely).
God's love IS UNCONDITIONAL!
But you will not find it in scripture.
Next ..
I'm not a universalist by name and I've never heard another say this:
"If we didn't get the choice to sin (meaning simply 'missing the mark)', then why do we now have to make a choice about our eternal place?!
One scripture:
Where sin abounds, grace does more abound.
But better yet.
If by one man's sin entered the world ...
How much more shall not ALL be saved by this one man Jesus.
I kinda paraphrased this one. But ...look it up. 🤓
Love wins! I love that..
No redemption as the Christian deity is love of brokenness and suffering.
1:02:00
God wills that all men be saved, God's (Jesus's) mission was to save all men (sinners), God (Jesus) is love, love never fails. google any of the previous for multiple scriptures.There you go, an hour and twenty minutes down to a minute hahaha
nev billett Hello there! Glad we both serve a great God of love! :)
I have a thought maybe you can help. I don’t think that God *always* gets what he wants. I think he wants us to live free from sin, but that sadly does not happen. So if I see this right, sometimes God’s mission doesn’t always take place. I don’t think he failed, I just think he allows them to choose.
✌️
22:37-knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires 2 Peter 3: 3
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God. John 3: 5
the more crowd laughs the more his tongue flicks like a serpent this spirit cannot even hide how much he enjoy to mock God but "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6: 7 please wake up repent and read the Bible
What is your point. This doesn't at all contradict what this lovely gentleman has shared.
@@2growdaily181 2:15-"christ under us" just by this demonic prayer you should have understood what spirit is working in this man he teaches another christ that he can command as he wants since it was not a prayer to the True God but instead it was a wicked man giving orders to his "christ"! Nowhere in the Gospel we can find this type of pagan prayer in which Apostles would dare to give orders to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Please repent turn away from sin and this demonic teachings! Read the Bible because you're in deep sleep ask God to wake you up so you don't lose your soul.
@@volodymyrvolf3889 Your judgement is clearly clouding your ability to hear. In that prayer he describes Christ as a light completely surrounding us with his love and protection, under us, over us, and all around us. How can you twist his words to mean that we are putting ourselves over Christ, which is what you are implying. If you are going to make a critique, please address his points, which you failed to do.
@@2growdaily181 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Colossians 3: 1
My judgement is based on God's Word. The things that this man saying goes against the Bible if you can't see it you are in the deep sleep wake up please repent turn away from sin and from this demonic teachings cause if you don't you'll lose your soul. Start reading the Bible and God will show you Way out. I wish you the same that i wish myself salvation i hope Lord Jesus Christ will show you His great mercy just like He showed it to me and even more.
@@volodymyrvolf3889 I assume you have good intentions, and that is why you are admonishing me. He spoke from the Bible and clearly stated that Christ is the only way to salvation, and you failed to address any of his other points. Please be specific and state where you think he was wrong and why. Then we can have a much more fruitful conversation.
I don't think that God inflicts anything on man, we are the one who choose it by disobeying or going against God. Seems to me that you are over complicating a simple thing according to scripture, makes it all confusing it's always been about mans freedom to choose God or not. Eternal life and our immortality or eternal damnation, because even though Jesus defeated sin, Satan and death, it doesn't mean they don't still exist and the people who choose that system. I don't believe that God loves the ungodly any less and continues to show mercy to all of us, but He would never force anyone to love or believe on Him.
217maka Yes, I am saying that it is our choice, once we've been exposed to, or have knowledge of who God is. You're talking about Saul, but if mankind in general, did not have a will to choose relationship with God or not....how do you explain Adam, or atheism, or why the world is full of so much corruption and evil even though we are all created by God in His image and exist in & by Him? I agree with you that once we truly see God for who He is, and get to know Him, (like Saul did), we naturally fall in love with Him, but sadly, some are blinded to the truth by religion, or Christianity, and tend to equate those labels with Gods love, and forfeit the opportunity to build a real relationship with Him; but God always makes Himself available to us, because He loves us unconditionally, wether we acknowledge it or not. Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🤗❤
217maka Did God use Satan to blind Adam too? or did he choose the tree of knowledge of good and evil of his own volition? I believe that God is love, and light, there is no darkness in Him, so he wouldn't use Satan to blind any one. Adam had perfect fellowship with the Godhead in the garden but chose the tree, even though God warned him against it. I also think that God is in all humans, and that He created us with a desire or longing to know Him, a void that only He can fill upon our choosing to acknowledge that He is Lord and by opening our hearts to relationship with Him. Its a matter of us hearing Him, (faith comes by hearing) Jesus, and REturning to Him, but if we aren't open to hearing and believing Him, how can we be saved when we don't believe the truth about who we are, or how God sees us? Sin causes us to forget who God created us to be, faith, causes us to remember.....hmmmm? 🤔
217maka Well said, nice chatting with you...blessings my brother or sister...😀✌🏾
creates evil? The Hebrew word here could be translated "cut down or dispatch" If there is no evil in God, he cannot make it.
I am not sure where you would get the idea that Adam was supposed to fall...
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all". To say he makes evil just doesn't make sense. Evil is merely the absence of good, just like sickness is the absence of health. You cure a person, the sickness doesn't up and walk somewhere else, so to speaks, it simply ceases to exist.
217 you are absolutely right ----when you say: I think if anyone actually met God it would be impossible to not love him, so is it not more of a question of some see him and are given no choice but to love him (Saul's conversion on road to Damascus), i.e. who on earth could resist, and the remainder for what ever reason can not/have not seen him and therefore cannot actually be said to choose not to love him as they are ignorant of the very God who they are said to be rejecting. According to all Near Death Experiences and I myself studied over 150 of them during my Psychology degree, there were many athiests that accepted christ after meeting him face to face, Howard Storm being one that is a pastor now, the fact that these people that don't believe now when they see him face to face do believe and cannot fall in love with him however according to Swedenborg (a seer of the 1700s) he said even so there are those that turn toward their ruling love and away from the Lord and the angels and these spirits gravitate toward lower levels (known as the hells) but rather communities of like spirits. Birds of a feather flock together so to speak. No one is thrown in hell, the spirit chooses to move to these neighborhoods naturally. We all end up in like communities according to our ruling loves so be the best person you can while on earth and of pure spirit as a child so your ruling love is a good one of faith and charity. We can all improve on the other side but why not start at a good point to begin with.
what twaddle
Twaddle is believing that Adam’s sin is more powerful than Jesus’ sacrifice.
Also the problem with anhiilation is that all are sinners... and to anhiilate sin through anhiilation then all have to be anhiilated ... even after we choose Christ we can sin and sin abide in us because we cannot be perfect until the total new creation of the second Adam at resurrection.. i mean we still have the tendency to sin... it is not until the resurrection that we' ll take on the full nature of Christ? That is why Christ have taken the full sentence on the Cross for all humanity. I hope i make sense. There is a lot to say on the subject. I am receiving so many insights.
Don't you guys think the doctrine of universalism is dangerous? This will cause nobody to be afraid of death, and try go murder, rape, steal, deceive, lie, and commit all sorts of other sins. Why? Because they believe that no matter what evil they do, they are going to be with God in heaven no matter what.
People say but without the threat of hell then why bother bother doing the right thing?
With universal salvation you try and do the right thing despite there not being a horrible end because true love doesn't need the threat of consequences. You just want to do right by God because you love him.
If you could cheat on your wife and get away with it would you? No because you love her so much that you wouldn't want to. If the only reason you love/ and or faithful to your wife or God is because of the consequences of not doing so, do you even really love them?
@@muscleprotein With your line of thinking, why should we elect officials who are gung ho about fighting crime? If our daughter is raped, so what? If we got ripped off in a real estate investment, let it be. If Russia or China invades us, let them shoot us in the head.
Universalism promotes evil and lawlessness and ironically, the universalist’s “love wins” slogan is a sham as the love of many waxes cold due to the proliferation of evil.
Hell is described as eternal and not even close to being worth the finite life of sin we live now and so people will want to avoid it because it still sucks to go to Hell regardless.