He does answer the questions actually, but maybe not how you would want it to be answered. he's making a point every time, listen more closely :) And don't forget, there are multiple questions fired at him at once :)
I think the problem is that you want him to choose sides in a debate. Wright says that the debate is framed wrongly (i.e. not consistent with the biblical worldview).
The master equivocator. He wants to be seen as an intellectual and a "theologian", sell lots of books to people that prefer religion academically. They don't want to talk about what the Bible is ACTUALLY about, which is how to handle sin. Nobody wants to talk about such things at society parties. Wright wants the respect of his secular peers. John the Baptist said "Repent, the Kingdom of heaven is at hand"....not this word salad.
I have been studying NT wright for a little bit now and it's almost like that he is afraid to offend the world and ungodly and is very careful not to make a firm stand on any doctrines proclaimed as an absolute truth ,which to me I read it offends Jesus.😢
Who decides who is good or bad? In a family, one of the sons behaves like he is a curse to the family doing all sorts of horrible things any parent would hate to keep up with. Not a day goes without a quarrel between the son and the father. But the father shows extreme patience and tries to be as helpful and friendly with the boy while shouting and beating him then and there. This goes on for several years and the boy never seems to improve. Rather his character worsens. He just comes and goes like a foreigner in the family. One day when things got seriously nasty, the boy tells the father that its not him who is the father but the neighbour. You think the father will let the guy enter his home after that? So Allah SWT is the ONLY ONE CREATOR WHO IS WORTHY OF WORSHIP. HE HAS NO EQUALS NEITHER PARTNERS. HE CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. HE IS THE ONE WHO FEEDS YOU AND WHO NOURISHES YOU. HE forgives every sin other than SHIRK which is attributing equals or partners to HIM. "Whoever commits evil or wrongs themselves then seeks Allah's forgiveness will certainly find Allah All-Forgiving, Most Merciful." "Whoever seeks a way other than Islam, ' it will never be accepted from them, and in the Hereafter they will be among the losers." The fundamental pillar of Islam is obedience and surrender to the Almighty Allah SWT alone. Now you may have a clear idea about who is good or who is bad.
I'm sorry but I just find NT Wright confusing. I wish I didn't. But I always have so much trouble just trying to figure out what he's actually saying and what he actually means. At the end I just don't really understand what he believes.
@@abrahamnorwood5361 THAT'S 💯 RIGHT. Call him out for what he is!!! 🐑🕯️🕊️ He doesn't seem to know much of anything about The Holy Scripture's does he. Probably because he doesn't.
I really appreciate NT's comments on the idea of heaven as our destination after death. This idea is simply not biblical, but I hear Christians say it constantly (I usually bite my tongue). Indeed, our destination is the kingdom of God as the new and reunited heaven and earth.. God himself comes to dwell forever with his people in this kingdom--the earth is where we were created to live forever--this is what was lost in the fall. Christ, the God-man, reunites these two realities.
Yes, but believers who die are with the Lord… in heaven….not the ultimate eschatological state of things, but nonetheless WHERE YOU WANT TO BE when you die. The celestial city coming down to earth is at the END. I don’t claim to know all about the “timing” of these things….the resurrection,people having glorified bodies, etc. It seems NT Wright is too educated for his own good. More of a philosopher than anything. Thinking about hell developed in reformation times?! Jesus described it quite well….it didn’t need development.
Rev. Chaps 21-22 pr loves, Christians will live forever with God in a Spiritual existence. I disagree with most Intellectuals, as most view things thru philosophy, more than literal.
While awkward for us Westerners who believe we can know everything and that the Bible is "all literal", this discussion held differing beliefs in tension. I didn't have a problem with NT Wright drawing back to lay down foundations of belief before coming back to the question. I liked that he didn't say, "This is exactly what happens!'' because no-one knows. It was a good starting point for more exploration and study for those who wish to do so.
I was very disappointed with this. Much of it was vague and abstract, often using mythical language, when what I wanted was as clear as possible an explanation of what is really going to happen to us after death. "Heaven" and "Hell" are place names and to understand the issues I think it essential to start by providing an understanding of cosmic geography. The Bible has many terms that imply a cosmic geography. A good example is "Sheol" - Hebrew for the underworld - in the OT. This need not mean what Dante meant by "Hell", but is definitely "down", not up. Similarly Jesus told the repentant thief he would be in "Paradise" with Him after death. Elsewhere we learn Jesus went "down" not up before the resurrection, which at the very least implies Paradise then (maybe not now!) was "down". Paul tells us that he went up to the "third Heaven", which implies there are two other heavens. I could go on... With a bit of time and effort I think it is certainly possible to construct a coherent understanding of cosmic geography from the Bible, so why not do it? It may lack detail, but tells us enough to know quite a lot. Once we have that, then describe what goes on in each place. There is enough to give as a decent idea. Incidentally, I have found modern NDE research very helpful in putting flesh on the Biblical bones to coin a phrase. (See Dr J Steve Miller's excellent books on the subject.) A second disappointment was NTW's implicit acceptance that there are many "good" people, who for understandable reasons don't come to faith before death and who seem ideal material for Heaven. The problem is that according to the Bible there is only one genuinely "good" person (Mar 10:18) and that is Jesus. Only those united with Him and who therefore share in His goodness get to Heaven. It's elementary stuff - the basic gospel - yet NTW didn't say it. Sadly I have lost a lot of respect for him.
but the hebrew Sheol isn't the same things as the more recent (from west)idea of hell. A righteous man(and the bible describes that there are righteous people: before Jesus; that doesn't mean they were totally without faults) was in Sheol and was contacted by Saul, and got angry he got disturbed in his resting in Sheol. Sheol wasn't a place of torment. Also the Bible is pretty clear about how God will judge all people by their actions later: so a "good person" will possibly meet Jesus after death and get to accept Him as lord, and be given the grace Jesus death has given us (in the face of God's judgment). I think you need to read more of N.T. Wright to understand more what he believed, and this video can not give the full picture.
@markquigley Look at the final Judgement - Matt. 25 and Rev. 20. This is the judgement of unbelievers in which some - the righteous - are saved. Not the glorious salvation of the faithful perhaps, but still a salvation.
Mark Q This man only speaks about what he understands, (intellectually) which doesn't matter whatsoever, because he doesn't even make his points according to Scripture. (Meaning it's NOT The Spirit of God). Which means, it's just a bunch of small talk. When people are pretending to be knowledgeable in the things of God Almighty, they will not really use much Scripture, but can sound convincing if you DON'T know what Scripture says. Jesus said, YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN, according to Scripture. That means we MUST BE BORN AGAIN. Being born again, of God Almighty. When this happens, you will be A NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST JESUS, according to Scripture, old things are passed away and ALL THINGS BECOME NEW, according to The Holy Scripture's. The things of God become something that you yearn for. HUNGER and THIRST for. The Holy Bible becomes REAL, and The Holy Spirit helps you, as your teacher, understand The Holy Bible. John The Baptist preached REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL. Repentance is not a work. It is a mandatory requirement for salvation. Repentance is being truly sorrowful for your sins against A Holy God, your/The Creator. It's The Holy Spirit that shows us our complete depravity and our true state of a filthy, sinful being, before a HOLY GOD ALMIGHTY. You are able to see yourself through HIS eyes, and that brings sorrow for your sins against Him, and repentance. True repentance CHANGES you. Everyone that is born into the world 🌍 is of the seed of Adam, in a fallen state. If you REMAIN IN THE FALLEN STATE, & ARE NEVER BORN AGAIN, there is only one destination after you die, and that is HELL. 🔥 People don't like believing that, which is why so many people (like this person,) try to find a better & easier way to heaven, and completely ignore & twist what Jesus Christ, and The Holy Scripture's say most of the time. They are ear ticklers. People love it because they can pretend they are going to heaven, and do absolutely nothing here but live a sinful and wicked life, embracing the world 🌍. But then when they die, they realize it is too late. 😖 Jesus said, LOVE NOT THE WORLD 🌍....... Jesus said, DENY YOURSELF PICK UP YOUR CROSS FOLLOW ME. Jesus said, If you save your life you will lose it, if you LOSE your life, for my sake (Jesus) & The Gospel's, you will find it. But, unfortunately , people make things up so they can pretend to be saved AND love the world 🌎 too and not read The Bible, and NOT do anything it says. If you are never born again of God, it's because you NEVER TRULY BELIEVED on The Lord Jesus Christ, & what He did for you at the cross of Calvary. THIS IS THE GOSPEL. The Holy Bible says that the WAGES of sin is ☠️ DEATH. We can NEVER pay the debt (wages) due for our own wicked ways against God. We CAN'T. SO JESUS DID. PERFECTLY. ONCE & FOR ALL. IT WAS FINISHED. Jesus came to the world 🌍 He created. Humbling Himself & NOT doing His Own will, but doing HIS FATHER'S WILL, Who sent Him. Jesus walked a perfect, Holy, SINLESS, life on this earth, as 100% Man (The Son of Man) AND 100% GOD, (The Son of God) Jesus fulfilled The Old Testament (which ONLY GOD could do) and ushered in The NEW Testament (Covenant). Jesus Christ died on the cross for YOUR SINS, & the sins of the whole world, according to Scripture. FOR: 'Whosoever will', come to Him, in faith, BELIEVING in Him, and what He did for you on that cross. He paid the PRICE God The Father required for Him to be our Lord and SAVIOR. He PAID THE DEBT YOU OWED that you could NEVER pay. He shed His Holy Blood on that cross, and DIED for you, & TOOK YOUR PLACE, AND HE ROSE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD, HE IS RISEN, AND ALIVE FOREVER MORE HALLELUJAH JESUS!!!! so that if you BELIEVE IN JESUS, YOU CAN be BORN AGAIN of God. The Bible says These SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT 👉 BELIEVE 👈 (read The Scripture for yourself). I hope that you will SEEK THE LORD JESUS while there is still time to do so. He already KNOWS everything, be honest with God. He is a merciful and loving God if we come to Him BELIEVING, that He IS, and that He died for your sins and ROSE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD, AND IS ALIVE FOREVER MORE!!!!!!!! THE KING OF GLORY. JESUS CHRIST. The Son of God Almighty that paid the price for WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE ON HIM. ONLY..... BELIEVE 🐑🕊️ JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.
@@Lovett6011 If you die an unbeliever, you will never have any righteousness. Either Jesus Christ is your Lord & Savior when you die, and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, He imparts to BELIEVER'S that are born again of God, or it's too late. There is no second chance after you die. That is a lie of the 🌍🐍😈. Don't believe it. Call upon The Lord Jesus Christ NOW, while He is near, and you are still breathing. SEEK JESUS WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART. Jesus said that the way is NARROW that leads to Life, & FEW find it. Don't believe the liars 🐍😈 that tell you otherwise. It's NOT The Truth. Jesus Christ is Lord.
Just an insight into Wright’s mind… Usually he doesn’t answer a question directly when the question is inherently flawed and bogged down by poor presuppositions. So he spends a good deal of time fixing the question to what should have been asked and then answering that. This is why it is important to listen to someone and not just look for them to signal the “correct answer “. When we wait for someone to use a buzzword, we end up like the world around us. We become more concerned with people agreeing with us than hearing what they have to say. Just my experience.
and he ignores scripture.. Romans has nothing to do with salvation according to him and he endorsed a book by steve chalke entitled the lost message of Jesus where Chalke accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser...
I don't want anyone to go to hell. That's why I point people to Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. He paid our sin debt in FULL and came back from the dead. Anyone who simply believes in Jesus Christ as Savior has (present tense) everlasting life (John 3:16). The whole reason Jesus shed His blood on the cross was to pay our sin debt so that we don't have to go to hell. Those who reject Christ as Savior will suffer eternal conscious torment in a literal fire-burning hell (Rev. 20:15). This is true regardless of whether or not they believe in the reality of hell.
@@DougandMax no they wont. Rather than seeing the "lake of fire" as a place of unending torment, its the final and complete destruction of those who reject Christ. The term "eternal punishment" in this context refers to the permanence of the punishment, not the duration of conscious suffering. In other words, the punishment is eternal because it results in complete extinction-those who reject Christ cease to exist, rather than being tormented forever. The Bible often uses fire as a symbol of destruction, such as in Malachi 4:1, where the wicked are compared to stubble burned up, leaving "neither root nor branch." This suggests total annihilation rather than ongoing agony. The bible constantly uses hyperbole also. Iyts good to understand the way people wrtote back then. For example, in Joshua 10:40, it says Joshua "left no survivors" in his conquests, and yet we find in later chapters that there were still people living in those areas (Joshua 11:22). This use of hyperbole is common in ancient Near Eastern writings and was understood as a way to express the totality of victory or destruction, not always a literal, exhaustive extermination. this view aligns better with the character of a just and merciful God. Eternal conscious torment for finite sins seems inconsistent with God's nature, whereas annihilation still upholds His justice by removing evil completely without eternal suffering.
What I'm learning from Dr Wright that this notion of clear categories placed in either or boxes is not always the case when pursuing sound exegesis rooted in historical and contextual understanding of the Bible, the use of language as influenced by the culture of the times limits us as to how we understand a text, this cautions us from bringing late presupposition which I'm finding is what has led to most misunderstandings characterising how we understand subjects as gehena a concept readily understood in the1st century.
..yes, and when does he even quote scripture when he is talking... he doesnt tell us how the plain teachings of scripture can be interpreted to fit his thinking... i can think of loads that conctradict... It was Jesus that brought the whole concept of hell to us in the first place...
I greatly appreciate N.T. Wright's brilliant mind, his eloquence, and his depth of scriptural insight. He’s undoubtedly one of the great Christian thinkers of our time. However, I find his lack of clarity on key theological issues, particularly heaven and hell, frustrating. He seems to vacillate between different views, such as annihilationism and universalism, without offering a concrete position. He leaves the fate of those who reject God somewhat unclear, not fully addressing what Jesus said about eternal punishment. While I agree with Wright’s emphasis on trusting God's justice-that He will judge fairly-I believe we must also acknowledge the clear biblical teaching on hell. Jesus’ use of the word "fire" signifies the intense pain and suffering of separation from God. While the concept of eternal, literal burning isn’t exactly scriptural, the image of fire reflects the seriousness of eternal loss. The consequences of rejecting God are real, and we can already see the devastation caused by separation from Him in this life.
It's the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that opens our spiritual eyes to understand God's Word which means that wherever we find ourselves on society's intellectual gradings, we all have the same opportunity to hear from God. His Word tells us that if we seek Him with all of our hearts, we will find Him. Jesus spoke about hell an awful lot and I prefer to rely on what Jesus said in the Gospels and Revelation. If hell wasn't such an absolutely devastating place why would Jesus have gone through all of that suffering to save us from it. When Jesus speaks of perishing, I believe it is always ultimately in regards to eternal loss - loss of the soul - even if it is also in regards to events that occur on this side of eternity. 'What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul? Sometimes too much intellectual thought on these matters can lead us down false path, which i think, is also the reason why some of the traditional theological colleges are well suited to scholars who don't necessarily hold the Bible in highest esteem. I'm not referring to NT Wright here, but rather to so many of those within the Church of England hierarchy who seem to value their own opinions more than the Word of God. Sadly much of the Church of England seems to have already gone or be going apostate.
God hasn't made some things clear, on purpose, and so NTW doesn't presume to claim one view over another, at times. The Greek is clearer than English; Hebrew also at times, but usually a quagmire!
@@larryrue6673 So when the book of Revelation says "lake of burning sulfur", it means, what, Elvis is alive, or that cows are aliens from another planet? When the book of Revelation says that the Beast and the False Prophet are there, it means something else other than what it says?
At judgement, some will hear “enter into the kingdom.” Others will hear “depart from me.” Sounds like a straightforward description of heaven and hell as equally opposite destinations to me. 🤷♂️
As a child of the 60s .in evangelism we were shown 2 pictures of someone on there death bed,One was surrounded by Angels the other by devils complete with pitchforks,red suits ,etc.,
His answer is that Heaven is actually going to be a summation of Earth and Heaven in the new creation, that there is a holding place after death called paradise, and that he believes in some sort of final hell - but he can’t decide between some measure of annhilationism (the imaged ones rejecting their image of God) and eternal conscious torment, but he seems to lean fairly more toward annhilationism, given his reference of Lewis’ talking beasts.
It’s pretty clear. But if this is the first time you’ve heard him speak on the subject then you don’t know a lot of background. A couple of phrases and words he used are packed. Just scroll through the other Ask NT Wright Anything and you’ll learn about it.
As a former Protestant who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy over 25 years ago, nothing was more refreshing than Orthodoxy's absolutely profound understanding of who Christ is and what he accomplished (Christology). One's view of eternity hangs on a rock solid Christology. There are several things that I think need mentioning, and I think I would start with the idea of the eternal soul. This idea, as far as I've found, has absolutely no basis in Scripture. Only God is eternal. Period.He can grant us eternal life (which always includes the body, as the Incarnation/resurrection makes clear) through the work of Christ, but it is not innate to humanity--the Tree of Life was taken from us. Christ became that very Tree of Life in a cosmic inversion of the dead tree of the crucifixion and His dead body into the life-giving tree and the fruit of his body as eternal life. This event also includes Christ's destroying of Death AND Hell through his resurrection. I often ask evangelical Christians where hell is if He did in fact destroy it? Did he destroy the power of death and hell or not? I believe many evangelical/Protestant believers have embraced a very distorted and harmful Christology. There is a great deal of fallout from this and much more that could be said about, but I think I'll stop there for now.
The destruction of sin and death is yet to come, as evidenced by the fact the Creation is still frustrated (Romans), our loved ones are still dying and Christ’s Kingdom is yet to come on earth as it is in Heaven.
Again, I would say that this is evidence of a less than cosmic Christology. Jesus speaks of his kingdom in the present tense because where Christ is there his kingdom must be fully present. He says, “the kingdom is upon you”, “the kingdom is among you”, “the kingdom is within you”-ALL present tense. On what basis can you say that Christ’s resurrection didn’t fully accomplish the destruction of death?
@@PatrickAdams-q7r well, quite obviously death still abounds all around us and also the Apostle Paul writes to the Corinthian church, in 1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Like Gregory Nazianzus, I would like to keep that door open. Not on the basis of our goodness, but on the basis of God’s goodness and the radical depths of His love for us. Can a Hitler be saved, you ask? Well, if he can’t, then God’s love, grace, and goodness apparently have their limits. What is the depth and depravity of any human soul? Yours? Mine? Do you presume to sit in judgment over another? The teachers of the law certainly thought they did. They were God’s chosen people, yes? Yet who received Jesus’s harshest rebukes? It wasn’t the tax collectors and “sinners”.
John 3:16 Sums up the two human destinies in one text! Through faith in Christ we have the assurance of Eternal Life, we need not “PERISH” ! John 5:28-29 What the 2nd-death fire 🔥 destroys, is destroyed forever! Revelation 20.
As an EO believer (who is a big fan of Wright), I have to share that 1. how we do eschatology is, in fact, the Lewis approach: hell is a chosen state; and 2. the angst over unbelieving loved ones is mitigated, in part, by the apostolic practice of praying for them.
The common objection to universal salvation goes like this: "Why assume God will save everyone? That’s just your own wishful thinking projected onto God. You're assuming that everyone has some goodness in them that God will eventually restore. But God is just-He knows who to save and who is beyond salvation." But isn’t this critique also an assumption? On what basis do you believe that some people are beyond salvation? Did God ever say that? In fact, everything we know about God points to the opposite-that He can do whatever He wants, and He has clearly said that He desires to save everyone.
Everything in religion is an assumption. Everything. You don't truly 'know' anything about God. Theists mistake religious beliefs for factual knowledge and then create dogma and traditions to support those beliefs until everything feels like its real. But there is absolutely no way show that. Then men spend lifetimes arguing obscure points based merely upon opinions debating opinions about beliefs.
@@RKLCan But that depends entirely upon believing a number of assumptions. That God exists precisely as you imagine and that the bible is God's word. And the only assurance we have of that is, the bible. We have absolutely no way to show either of these assumptions is true and i'm sure you don't question them. But why not? I would also, respectfully, suggest you read the bible a little more critically and you will see that there is no single agreed upon route to salvation, or even a single description or understanding of God.
The prophecies were so specific for the first coming, but the people of the time couldn't see it. Does that mean the second coming prophecies are just as specific, but we wont know it till we see it? After all, Jesus scolded his people for knowing the time of the their visitation. Does that mean we are just as responsible for the understanding the prophecy of the second coming?
Instead of the lengthy theological talk we have here, for me it was simply what Jesus said very clearly about Heaven and Hell in Matthew 25 that led me to reject Him - dividing mankind very clearly into sheep and goats, with endless fire for the goats. I thought to take the problem to a clergyman, and to prepare I wanted to find all the places where Jesus spoke in this way. I sat down with Luke. As I read the Holy Spirit came to me through every word, and the Love of Christ enfolded me. No answer to me about Hell, just the overwhelming presence of the Saviour. I wish big name theologians could convey to us something of this - even though the Hell question is left unanswered, Christ will always triumph for us even in our angry opposition to Him.
@Starchaser63 the problem is our English translations have taken 4 different words that have different meanings- sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus and translated them all into the word hell. So, be careful when you assume Jesus is speaking about hell. Sometimes Jesus is speaking to the Jews about the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and the language he uses could sound like he us speaking of the end of the world.
@@zacdredge3859 your a good example, because if you had sufficient evidence you would have included it in your response.. also the real deal is Jesus actually showing up now and again...
@@Starchaser63 So to be clear your answer is Jesus 'showing up and now and again', are you claiming these visitations as the evidence in question? Otherwise I didn't think you addressed my question at all.
Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us in His Father’s house and would come receive us to Himself so we can be together where He is. And Jesus went to Heaven, so we are going to Heaven too. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus taught about the great tribulation and warned everyone to repent from sin, watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to _escape_ all the things that are coming. So when we go to Heaven, we will also escape the greatest tribulation in human history.
How can you ... When family inot in heaven? As my mom days: 'you'll be rejoicing at His Righteous Judgement, in perfect peace, perfect perfection, always forever rejoicing never in infinity ever being able to comprehend the beauty, Glory, 'Mind', depths of the depths of .. I have no words
Jesus descended into hell and destroyed it! Do you really think a loving God would create man knowing that some would burn in hell for eternity. The Heavenly FATHER would be a monster!!!
Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven.also a parable doesn't mention names .he talks of the rich man in hades and Abraham and laxarus in paradise..where jesus took the thief. To paradise. Idk if hell is eternal..or finalized in the lake of fire second death..but i just dont want to find out.. accept jesus because there is no promise of tmr..if good could get u to heaven. We didn't need jesus did we..ty very much
And he didn’t say much about hell much either. What he did talk about-a lot-was that the Kingdom of God/Heaven was at hand and all the blessings that would flow from that would come too. So, no, hell wasn’t a big part of his preaching. And, by the way, he used the word “Gehenna,” not hell. Gehenna was a garage dump outside Jerusalem, which sometimes would burn and sometimes not. May he intended to mean “hell, but I wouldn’t so eagerly conclude that’s what he meant. Unless you’re eager about sending people to hell.
The idea that Jesus “spoke more of hell than heaven” simply isn’t true, and I’m sad the idea hasn’t gone away. By far, the most prominent topic of Christ’s preaching was the Kingdom of God, specifically how that Kingdom is breaking through into our world, which is why he told his disciples to pray that God’s will be done “in earth, as it is in heaven.” Additionally, Christ preached a call to repentance: he taught us a new way to live in THIS lifetime, as members of the family of God. “From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” - Matthew 4:17
Despite claiming to reject modern reinterpretation, he’s still doing it. In Jesus’s time, it would have been well-understood that he was talking about a new Kingdom of Israel, which only the righteous would be permitted to enter. When Jesus mentions Gehenna, he’s referring to a physical place (look it up). It’s also clear that Jesus himself preached repentance, and a return to righteousness, while Paul introduced salvation through faith. At 17:24, notice how he reframed the second question as though anyone who can’t accept the Gospel has been hurt in some way, and that it’s at least somewhat their fault for refusing to see the good side of Christianity. That’s not the problem, it’s the evidence. This is directly related to the Problem of Divine Hiddenness and the existence of non-resistant nonbelievers. His statement at 19:39 was telling. This is not an answer, it’s an excuse. Without wiping people’s memories, it’s impossible for people to be fully satisfied with Heaven. Here’s a thought: Why not bypass suffering and skip straight to the best possible world? If it’s better than Earth there’s no point in creating Earth at all.
That’s actually a common misconception. The archeological and textual data do not reference Gehenna as a physical place of punishment until about 1,200 years after the composition of the New Testament. Before the New Testament, within the New Testament, and after the New Testament, Gehenna was understood as a postmortem place of divine punishment. I don’t like to make claims by my own authority, so I’ll refer you to Dan McClellan’s video “Was Gehenna a Place for the Punishment of the Living?” which he made two years ago. Edit: I should say that Gehenna was not a burning trash heap in the 1st century.
@@user-kv1po2dm5j Thank you for the correction. I’ll have to do some more research on that. There must be some reason why it was associated with Hell (or vice versa) but his video didn’t fully clarify that for me.
"why not bypass suffering and skip to the best possible world"... This is like spoiling our children with every possible luxury instead of letting them learn how to become responsible adults God doesn't want eternal babies, he made us in his image
@@Yonen1688 I guess we should let the children play with knives, then. It’s one thing to challenge people and quite another to inflict suffering. Those of us in countries with access to the internet sometimes forget that. In order for your theodicy to work, every bit of suffering would be there to teach us a lesson, and I don’t think that’s the case. After all, there are some people who suffer and never hear the Gospel, in which case they will end up suffering for all eternity in Hell.
The more I listen to NT wright the more that I believe that he should be a Roman Catholic in his doctrines, most of that was almost in agreement with the Roman Catholic teaching of purgatory and universalism that God will accept all people eventually no matter what religion for God they worshiped in this life after they die... It's quite sad 😢
@@MrThehellyousay there is much other stuff as well Tom Wright says that the book of romans has nothing to do with salvation and he endorsed a book by steve chalke entitled the lost message of jesus where chalke accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser... there are plenty of other theologians out there, like Mike Overy comes directly against Tom wright and others who try to do away with the atonement in his book 'Pierced for our Transgressions' or just read scripture for yourself and believe what it says....
A question always in my mind not resolved yet: when Christians died and Christ’s return to renew a new heaven & earth, what will be new heaven & new earth likes? Does this mean world technology will cease ? No more cars, TVs, phones, etc..? Do we still have businesses? Do we still have our hobbies? Etc…?
@@Wander4self You're wanting proof for a God and the Lake of Fire for the unsaved who don't place their faith in Christ? You'll find out in less than the next 100 years, within that timeframe the evidence will be overwhelming.
@ I’m So sorry you have been convinced without evidence to believe such nonsense. Religion has removed your critical thinking skills, and your humanity.
I really enjoyed watching this video, I believe NT Wright did a very good job discussing what the BIBLE taught, not what people teach or what modern Christianity teaches. What I found particularly intriguing was when he discussed the Greek Orthodox man who was confused at the idea of heaven and hell. The man and people like him know a later form of the language used and are able to better understand the original texts of the Bible without having to translate it, so it’s meaning is more understandable to him and people who know the language without the confusion of translation. So he knew that the Bible doesn’t talk about heaven or hell the way people think about it today. Also the discussion of the different views of what happens “after” was interesting and had me thinking about what exactly I believe. There were so many cool things said that definitely has given me some good food thought. Thank you so much for posting this video!!
In reference to C.S. Lewis, I found it helpful to read The Hope of the Gospel by George MacDonald. MacDonald ignited Lewis' imagination through his fairy tales, but also deepened Lewis' spiritual life through his.published sermons. The text is public domain, and an audio version can be found through the Librivox project.
@@grantbartley483 Read the gospel of Matthew, Luke 16. It is crystal clear. Eg, what did God prepare for the Satan and his Angels? Matthew 25 Dont listen to scholars only - study yourself what the scriptures say.
If that ridiculous claim held any truth, it would contain the vast majority of the world’s population. No country in the civilised world has a majority Christian population.
@@DA-yd2nyso does study yourself mean use English translations based on the original manuscripts or use the original manuscripts? Because when you use the original… it seems as if you then have to know a lot about context and the history of other documents in the first century and before. And frankly after. I think flawed thinking is that your English translation is sufficient, because it is not.
@j7489 Agreed, the Father is the only judge... But the question is, what is the Father judging? I believe that scripture tells us that we are symbiotic creatures, human+being (Genisis 2:7, Matthew 10:28, etc) Our human part procreated by biological process our being/spirit part assigned to us by God. My understanding of scripture is that God exiled Satan to this rock called Earth. (Revelation 12:9). The same rock The Father created us on. God didn't have to do either but He did both. I believe that God had a purpose creating us on the planet He exiled Satan to. God designed us with free will, I believe that God's purpose in designing us with free will is to test our spirit while we exist on earth as humans. (Genisis 2:16-17, Romans 8:13, etc) Satan owns this planet we call Earth. I believe that simply because he offered it to Jesus Christ (Matthew 4:8-9) and He could not offer what he did not own. it is free will that allows us to choose between mortal temtation or spiritual reverance.(Galatians 5:17) And it is those choices. Our free will choices that is judged by the Father on our day of recognition.
@@j7489 yes just as a judge sends people down for the criminal acts they have done... they have earnt their sentence... but Jesus has paid the price for our sin for all those who accept his sacrifice...
Well when he visited our vineyard church in Feltham, UK, he was promoting his new book at the time, the day the revolution began, basically in that he claims that romans has nothing to do with salvation... I asked him a question around a verse that says it is everything to do with salvation, his answer was so convoluted that i didnt understand what he said.... but basically Tom Wright does not believe that romans has anything to do with salvation... our getting to the renewed? (new?) earth by passes the atonement... Also interestingly he endorsed a book where the guy was claiming that God was a cosmic child abuser, The lost message of Jesus by steve chalke..
@ Exactly. He doesn’t believe in the biblical definition of atonement or justification. But when you press him on it, he’ll word salad on it. He’s a shameless charlatan which is to be expected from his Anglican roots. He is arguably one of the most dangerous false teachers out there. Thank you for sharing your experience about him!
The New Heaven and New Earth are ONE place. Lots of Bible verses describe what The Newly made Earth-merged with Heaven will be like. “Death, the final Enemy, is Swallowed up in Victory”.
@@Ton1956Y well it is if you believe what the bible says... Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
My frustration with N. T. Wright is that he often gives long, meandering answers to questions the Bible gives direct answers to. It comes across like he doesn't really want to answer them. While I agree with him at certain points like heaven not being our final destination, he seems to dance around the issues that people need concrete answers to.
"he seems to dance around the issues that people need concrete answers to." yes he believes in a renewed earth but regardless he does away with the means of getting there, namely the atonement... he does not believe that the book of romans has anything to do with salvation... He endorsed the book the lost message of jesus by steve chalke where CHalke accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser...
"NT, give a straight answer. You can then take your time to elaborate. :)" the problem with that would be that then people would know what he believed... what was he doing when he endorsed steve chalkes book the lost message of Jesus where chalke accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser... what is he doing when he says the book of romans has nothing to do with salvation.... He visited our church and we read, the day the revolution began to be able to answer intelligent questions... I quoted something from romans which directly says it is everything to do with salvation, he gave such a convoluted answer i didnt understand what he said so i was non the wiser...
Why do intellectuals refuse to just say “yes, hell is real. The Bible clearly teaches hell is real.” None of this “final loss” nonsense. Hell is real. Jesus believes in it and taught it.
Some people find the end of final loss offensive? Yes, of course. How could one not find it offensive? On the basis of limited knowledge and limited awareness, not to mention finite sins, God allows one to ruin oneself forever? It is just not compatible with the notion that God is love or good or merciful, unless one uses these terms equivocally (as Calvin does). And why would anyone reject God forever? If God is the source and end of all goodness, truth and beauty, we could only reject God as a consequence of a deep seated ignorance. Why would anyone in their right mind knowingly choose misery over infinite happiness and goodness? One would have to be either ignorant or insane and therefore God would have to be less than perfect goodness to permit that. To know God is to want God. How could it be otherwise?
@@JoBo301 Yes, exactly. You could only choose "hell" under the aspect of the good, in which case you would misperceive it, and so you wouldn't be choosing it. Moreover, you cannot reject God if you fully understand what God means. If God = the true, the good and the beautiful, you cannot reject him as your will is always orientated to them, as even St Thomas Aquinas says. You cannot will evil qua evil.
@@dallasgraham2813 There is something irritating about N T Wright. I don't find him to be candid. He's always dancing around questions because he doesn't want to offend his co-religionists.
I love the distinctions between Hebrew/Christian understandings of soul/life after death and those of Plato. It seems one's conception of soul is the crux of many of these conundrums. Why not ask Dr. Wright about his view of near death experience, which points toward the reality of what he called the Platonic view of the soul: eternal in its nature. Near death experience forms the basis of so many people's faith these days. But if the Hebrew/Christian soul is dependent on the body and needs the gift of eternality from God to continue after death, what of these reports, many of which express certainty of a loving God as the essence of everything?
Knowing NT wright He probably just gave a 30 minute long nuanced speech and danced around the whole answering of the actual question. Jesus makes it abundantly clear that yes God sends people to hell. I just saved you 32 minutes. 1. Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." 2. Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'” 3. Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." 4. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might." 5. Revelation 20:15 "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." 6. Mark 9:43 "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."
I ca not believe NT Wright says Hell is Plato. Satan with red skin and a 3 teeth fork is Greek mythology but not Hell. Hell is all over the New Testament. If we throw out Hell we might as well throw out hom0$€xuality, which these preachers nowadays so badly want to do.
Counter Point God will judge some by their own conscience (see "EXCUSING" end of v15) Rom 2:14 This is how it works out. Gentiles don’t possess the law as their birthright; but whenever they do what the law says, they are a law for themselves, despite not possessing the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their conscience bears witness as well, and their thoughts will run this way and that, sometimes accusing them and sometimes excusing them, 16 on the day when (according to the gospel I proclaim) God judges all human secrets through Messiah Jesus.
Loved it!! Suggestion, doing a podcast about this other views that we often see as christianity, but in fact are platonism, gnosticism and so on... I would love to see some comparisons
And I find the opposite is true: Those who are sure that they and their group are the only ones not going to hell just might be surprised where they end up. "EVERYONE shall be salted by fire"
If I don’t believe in a literal hell, then I’m going there? The Bible doesn’t teach this. It does say; “Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent.” John 6:28-29. Pretty simple message.
"That is not a Jewish or Christian idea, it's an ancient pagan idea" - the problem is in Luke 16 Jesus is recorded as saying - 'The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.' So Jesus seemed to be painting the EXACT picture which Dr Wright rejects as Jewish or Christian. Even if it's viewed as some sort of parable, it seems very odd that Jesus presented such an image if Dr Wright is correct. How does he reconcile this?
I completely agree. Luke 16 treats the fires of hell very literally, which seems to make sense within the Jewish context of belief in a bodily resurrection. Clearly the writer of the parable, or Jesus himself, if he truly told the parable, pictured hell in a very specific way, as a place of never ending bodily torment. It is not easily written off as a metaphor.
Your problems are that there is zero credible evidence that your imaginary magic man ever existed and that, in the primitive Middle East, his voice was ever reliably recorded as he spoke. Your gullibility is remarkable.
Damnation is clearly called 'eternal destruction' in the NT. I think this means, destruction forever, but also, destruction from the point of view of eternity, which implies finished.
Tom Wright has studied and written a lot. But his inability to teach truth in clear short sentences is a sign of spiritual confusion. How different to the New Testament and Jesus' own teaching! Please don't let him confuse you. Praying for God's mercy for this man.
yep loads of theologians disagree with him as does the bible 🙂 its just that he is one of the ones that escaped the academic bubble.... dont put him on a pedestal, let the bible stay there, not him... we have many translations of the bible done independently of each other and they come up with virtually the same thing, believe them, not Tom wright... (apart from the passion translation, that is not even a paraphrase - Brian simmonds lied about his translation skills)
@ I discovered that the words judgment in the Bible refer to a cleansing and healing. I believe everything that does not look like love will be destroyed in humanity, and all will be saved because God is love. The only hell I believe in is the fire of God that is his love which restores not terminates a human
The Christian creator-god is deeply evil. It created the human soul, a set of rules applying to human thoughts and behaviors, and sends some of them to an eternity of torture for having used their free will. And who created free will and installed it into humans? The creator god. And did this creator god know ahead of time that some of these souls would be tortured for all eternity? Yes. And while alive, does this god demands his followers be grateful to it and love it unconditionally? Yes, again. Is there another top-pantheon god in any other religion who is even remotely close to the Yahweh’s odium? No. Here’s the good news. Yahweh, and all the other gods, do not exist. We imagined them into existence, and we can think them away.
Wright's teachings, while popular, can be dangerous as they undermine core Christian doctrines like justification and the reality of hell, leading many believers away from the true Gospel.
nope, he does away with basic chirstian doctrines like saying Romans has nothing to do with the atonement in his book The day the revolution began.. he endorsed a book by steve chalke entitled the lost message of jesus where he accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser...
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. *If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?* In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. -James 2:14-17
I'd love to go with all this philosophical, scholastic prettification and I really abhor the Dantic depiction of hell. But this gentleman here, is a "New Testament scholar", so what about the Lord's very own words about hell? Because...He was rather very clear about it!
The idea of Hell as something other than a place of suffering and pain may not sit well with many modern Christians, who often find satisfaction in the imagery of non-Christians receiving the punishment they deserve. I believe William Lane Craig calls it "the demands of divine justice".
You're right. It's very seductive to the dysfunctional ego which loves to be "right". Eternal hell is the ultimate satisfaction for the believer; the eternal " I was right, you were wrong" ego trip. It is devoid of love, although it cannot see it.
Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is none righteous, no not one; vs 11 There is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. vs 12They have alll turned aside; They have together become unprofitable
I do believe that NT wright is absolutely wrong about hell and not for sure what he stands for or confirms when it comes to specific doctrines of the Christian faith because it's almost like he's afraid to offend the world and the ungodly. It kind of reminds me of the Pope the way that he speaks because it's hard to nail down exactly what he is confirming
@@abrahamnorwood5361 Dismiss 'new age teachings' at your own risk. All teachings were, at the time, 'new age teachings'! Some are so much better than medieval thinking and ignorance!
Nop, he’s teaching about heaven and hell in their original context, but most Christian’s won’t accept this. If you don’t agree you should better provide an argument instead of complaining and attacking the person rather than the argument, which btw is a fallacy. (attack the person instead of the argument)
@@05TheMilo First, the Xtian version is not the only story of Hell, nor is it the original/earliest. And every Heaven/Hell story is metaphor! (look it up) And what, exactly, did I say that you disagree with? Feel free to stop attacking me, as you say, a fallacy, and provide a focused 'argument', if you can. What a great example of; "We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are!"
In Revelation we are taught that the beast and the Antichrist will be thrown into the lake of fire and suffer eternally and then those whose names are not written in the book will be thrown in and this will be the second death. Therefore they will be annihilated.
@@anushkasekkingstad1300 At the last judgment. All those whose names are not written in the Book of Life. Whose names will be written there? I am not sure but I do know for sure that all who rely on the great and terrible sacrifice for his or her sins that Jesus made on the cross will have their names written there. "I owed a debt I could not pay, He paid a debt He did not owe, I needed someone to wash my sins away! So now I sing a brand new song - Amazing Grace - Christ Jesus paid the debt that I could never pay!"
@@DianaKathleenBurgess this book of life sounds no less nonsensical than the bible. Who supposedly writes and maintains this imaginary book? Who wrote the bible and when remains a complete mystery to christians yet they somehow find the gullibility to accept it as being somebody’s truth. We look at the massive computer systems our individual governments need to keep track of our basic details, yet you seem to expect that your celestial Kim Jong Un somehow keeps track of all of us. We’re fortunate to live in the free world and have no wish to live under such scrutiny, celestial or otherwise. There is zero substantiation evidence your “Jesus” ever existed far less was sacrificed. No of my family was even born when this spectacle supposedly happened, far less had committed any sin ( whatever you might imagine those to be) Any sacrifice he supposedly made, certainly wasn’t on our behalf and we certainly owe no debt to any imaginary being. If you’ve been heavily indoctrinated to believe you owe some debt, that’s entirely your problem, not mine. Here in the Nordics, religious indoctrination of our children in our schools is a crime. My wife and I were protected by this legislation when we were schoolgirls and nobody dared expose us to the evil nonsense that is the bible. Thankfully, our young daughters are equally well protected.
He didn't answer, I love N. T. Wright but he he tries to play political mumbo Jumbo. Hell ..is mentioned too many times ,as a place of torment ,just can't play with this answer
Anyone who tells you they know what happens after death is either a liar or a fool. The presupposition here is that Christianity and it's traditions are correct, but that cannot be shown to be true. They are merely beliefs; simple opinions. They might be true but they might equally be untrue and there is absolutely no way to know for certain.
@@georgekrats2573 I have read it, cover to cover, many times, for over 40 of my 66 years. I am a student of the bible and religion and I remain unconvinced. But my skepticism isn't the issue. You seem to be simply accepting the bible as true but have you ever looked at it critically or read the work of biblical scholars? Imagine, just for a moment, that the many different authors of the bible were just men, doing their best, and that whilst some of it is useful and some of it deeply disturbing, none of it can be shown to be truth or fact using verifiable evidence. That would not mean God doesn't exist. It wouldn't even mean Jesus was not divine. But it should make you question what you think you know. What I have described is the reality of the bible. It is a collection of very different books by men with different agendas and different views on God. There is not and never has been a single uniform message. What you believe is none of my business, and you may even be right. I can't prove otherwise I only seek to highlight the differences between what we believe and we can know to be fact.
@@Outspoken.Humanist what is your source of truth? Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life.go to john 1 says the Word was God .then verse 14 it says And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - Jhn 1:14 KJV the bible is my truth..how about you mr i read the bible for 40 years and still am not convinced. whats the problem? lack of faith? i read the bible through about 2 times a year . i study i go to bible study go to prayer .they even let me preach a couple times. im 62 got saved around 50 years old so i havent studied as much as you but i 100% trust Gods word as truth.
@@georgekrats2573 Truth is something which is in accordance with the facts. Facts are only established through verifiable evidence. You quote Jesus and the gospels as if you are automatically speaking the truth but you have no way to show that. All you are really doing is repeating words written by other men. Words you may believe but which you cannot show to be true.
No one goes to heaven and hell when we die. All remain in the grave till Jesus comes in His glory. And hell is not an eternal burning fire. Revelation makes it clear that God will rain a brim of fire to destroy Satan and his angels and all whose names were not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. The burning will be for a time and will cleanse and purify the old earth to a new one which will be occupied by the redeemed.
I'm thinking of the Jesus that said " no one that does not hate his mother and father and brother...is fit to be my disciple". St Symian predicts that Jesus will bring great strife. Jesus speaks dismissively about his mother and brothers when they ask to speak to him, and dismissive of his mother when the townswoman cries blessings on the womb that bore him. When he says in that in heaven there is no meeting a former spouse- he says we are like angels, we are all pure souls! Oh, where do we get the idea that heaven will be a family reunion!?
If my child rejected me, hated me, even tried to kill me, I would punish them but never ever torture him or her in fire for all eternity. The medieval idea of hell is absurd. This is a god claiming to be loving and forgiving, but is a cruel being not worthy of my worship. I am more loving and forgiving than this god.
I think such simple analogy ignores the fact that humans are not at par with God and punishment can be in many different way. Some parents reject their stubborn kids and cut them off, some parents will give their children up when they commit heinous crime, so your analogy is not entirely correct. We have the cannanites burning their own children what happened?
Andrew, the point SBD is making is that God is so far beyond us in goodness and love. Surely it would mean that human parenting at it's best wouldn't be better than what God is capable of?
You're ignoring the fact that a perfectly loving God needs to be perfectly just. You can't have love without justice. Apathy towards evil is evil in and of itself. Hell always feels "horrible" or unloving to people who have a weak understanding of love.
@@amoy3508 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: - Eph 2:8 KJV Not of works, lest any man should boast. - Eph 2:9 KJV
Doesn't Matthew 25:31-46 about the Sheep and the Goats basically state that it's not as much about whether a person is a believer or not as it is about whether they are kind and considerate and this is what gets them into Heaven?
Unfortunately yet more british theologian waffle opinion without clearly answering the question from the The Word... For example, would have liked to have heard a clear exegetical explainaton of Jesus' assertion : Matthew 25:46 ESV - And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Am not a believer, but if you are interested in what the typical response to this is it's usually along the lines of "punishment" here being a word that connotes condemnation and deprivation and can either be taken to mean I) unconscious (annihilationism) ii) conscious (traditional "hell") or iii) reversible (various kinds of universalism). "Eternal" here meaning something more like "the constant state of affairs unless something changes" rather than "unchangeable state of affairs".
To answer this it would be important to get some understanding regarding the term "eternal" (aionion in Greek). In the ancient world it doesn't amount to what is often assumed in the English-speaking world. Also, one must get it out of their heads that universalists don't believe in hell or "stations" of post-mortem suffering, if you like, which can last a really long "time". That's simply not true. The caricatures here can be very misleading.
You need to read beyond a modern English translation with heavy theological import. The modern view of hell has to be imported into that scripture to make it work.
Did God decide to create humans (knitting them together in their mothers womb)knowing that some of them wouldn't believe that a man rose from the dead thousands of years before they were born. He could have just made the ones that would believe.
I don't think that a summary dismissal of Dr. Wright's perspective as "plain wrong" is warranted without an equally eloquent expression from his critics. Perhaps this podcast will invite you to articulate your perspective.
@@jessemontes799 whatever you want to say what the original word was, the NT actually descrivbes what the word hell means... so you can call it anything you like... Rev 20:10- And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever (aion) and ever. (aion) 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20:10-15 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever (aion) and ever. (aion) Aion means age, ages and ages so it may not be eternal but then you have the two verses below confirming that it is... Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ 49 For everyone will be salted with fire. ESV Isaiah 66:2 And they shall go out and look at the dead bodies of the people who have rebelled against me; for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh. NRSV
Your explanation about heaven and hell is rather convoluted and anti-Bible. Jesus talked about hell more than he did about heaven. Ambigous, heretical and very disappointing. Taking from both sides but not committed to either heaven or hell. Very sad.
Yea the ol Jesus talked about hell more than heaven trope. That’s simply not true. Jesus definitely talked about Gehenna and sheol that are mistranslated into hell. Also, you have to import your modern view of hell into the text to make it work which is incorrect. If you want to be biblical you may want to look into what Jesus actually said and meant within a deeper reading beyond the English translation.
Interesting that all this talk is based on the New Testament gospels which were written by unknown authors using information from undisclosed sources. How do we know that any of the unidentified authors of the New Testament faithfully reproduced the words of Jesus? There were no tape recorders, Dictaphones or court reporters back in the day. We all know how fallible our memories are.
If you believe in God and that God has revealed Himself through written words testifying to what has actually happened in God’s Word, it’s not difficult at all to accept what has been written as true. If this is merely a human process, then it’s not a very interesting issue anyway.
Firstly, He is going to be with mankind. He will lead many to righteousness. Read Daniel. He will punish any evil doing. That is the meaning of the hell Jeremiah and Isaiah spoke of: utter destruction of the worst of people. Torment (in the words of the Christ and his disciples) actually meant the being tested (passive of basanizō) by the touchstone (Gr. basanos, Hebr. eben baĥan). That is why smoke rises in eternity. There was no value in such ones, and it will be proven. Lk 16? Is parody, mockery of Pharisee's teaching. He turns their hatred and cruelty and ignorance against themselves.
@@cre8509Buddha wouldn't agree. If we talk about Islam..Muslim heaven looks very different from Christian heaven. Also, thousands of other gods (who are all very real to some other cultures) wouldn't agree with any. A big mess mate!
@@iks9120actually Buddha would likely agree with Jesus’ inherent messages. I imagine Buddha would undoubtedly reject interpretation of Jesus as it is seen today.
@@jrw585jxc Agreeing with messages or with philosophy of religion is not a synonym for believing that the religion is true. I do agree with Christian values, but I don't believe that they came from Christian or any god. I do believe that it is good to do good, but I don't believe that heaven exists. Same goes for Buddha and Jesus.
I had ticked Like but at the 20minute mark your guest started ranting on about the eucharist, breaking of bread Rubbish - It was then your soft spoken guest revealed himself as a Nutcase!.
You might want to consider that whether you agree with him or not, NT Wright is considered one of the most foremost Christian biblical Scholars of our day and most surely has earned the respect you deny him. You might want to rethink the attitude, because millions have been edified and brought closer to Christ through his work.
I truly believe that proper analysis of all this can only to the conclusion that we as Catholics have, ie Purgatory for sincere God seekers who are part of the Elect. See NT Wright 's previous video explaining who the Elect ARE.
I am left with the question: for those who have become less human non effective image bearers where do they exist in their resurrected body while effective image bearers enjoy the union of heaven and earth?
If you are answering for NT I can say I thought I understood what was/was not being said. Let me ask the question a different way for clarity. For the people in our towns who are walking in a hell, what happens to them when heaven in its fullness (the return of Christ) arrives? Do they remain in our towns or are they relocated in another town? What or where is that town? @@rampartranger7749
NT Wright, at 12:30, says that all were born as image bearers but if we choose to reject God we choose not to become image bearers. That's not quite right. We are all born in sin, carnal in nature. Unless we are born again in the spirit we cannot become image bearers. Sounds like a lot of double talk.
What about the lake of fire Rev 20:14? Outer darkness Matthew 25:30, 8:12, 22:13, ....? Luke 16:23? ... These verses prove that there is no annihilation (total destruction)
*"These verses prove that there is no annihilation...."* I disagree. None of the verses that you cite offer any support for the pagan notion of eternal conscious torment.
Let's make this easy ::: Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 (NKJV) Ps 37:20 But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. Psalm 37:20 (NKJV)
NT says the meanings of words are slippery. But not as slippery as theology which he just makes up to sit his culture and time. There is no word of god. Every generation makes up it's own meaning. Nothing could be more obvious.
Good point, Doug. The original Bible manuscripts do not contain the word "hell" or any word that means hell. The fate of the unsaved is death, as in 100%, all-the-way dead. ► Sheol is not hell. ► Hades is not hell. ► Gehenna is not hell. ► The Lake of Fire is not hell.
I like NT Wright but I find that he meanders all over the place and never answers the question.
So, why do you like him?
Spot on.
He does answer the questions actually, but maybe not how you would want it to be answered. he's making a point every time, listen more closely :) And don't forget, there are multiple questions fired at him at once :)
I think the problem is that you want him to choose sides in a debate. Wright says that the debate is framed wrongly (i.e. not consistent with the biblical worldview).
The master equivocator. He wants to be seen as an intellectual and a "theologian", sell lots of books to people that prefer religion academically. They don't want to talk about what the Bible is ACTUALLY about, which is how to handle sin. Nobody wants to talk about such things at society parties. Wright wants the respect of his secular peers.
John the Baptist said "Repent, the Kingdom of heaven is at hand"....not this word salad.
Why can't the questions be answered directly? The answers sound political. I'm left confused.
How often does Jesus answer questions directly? Didn't the disciples ask him to speak plainly?
I have been studying NT wright for a little bit now and it's almost like that he is afraid to offend the world and ungodly and is very careful not to make a firm stand on any doctrines proclaimed as an absolute truth ,which to me I read it offends Jesus.😢
I agree 100%. A lot of the time with NT Wright I feel like he's sort of afraid to say what he actually believes. It's very strange and disconcerting.
Who decides who is good or bad?
In a family, one of the sons behaves like he is a curse to the family doing all sorts of horrible things any parent would hate to keep up with. Not a day goes without a quarrel between the son and the father. But the father shows extreme patience and tries to be as helpful and friendly with the boy while shouting and beating him then and there.
This goes on for several years and the boy never seems to improve. Rather his character worsens. He just comes and goes like a foreigner in the family. One day when things got seriously nasty, the boy tells the father that its not him who is the father but the neighbour. You think the father will let the guy enter his home after that?
So Allah SWT is the ONLY ONE CREATOR WHO IS WORTHY OF WORSHIP. HE HAS NO EQUALS NEITHER PARTNERS. HE CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. HE IS THE ONE WHO FEEDS YOU AND WHO NOURISHES YOU. HE forgives every sin other than SHIRK which is attributing equals or partners to HIM.
"Whoever commits evil or
wrongs themselves then seeks
Allah's forgiveness will certainly
find Allah All-Forgiving, Most
Merciful."
"Whoever seeks a way other
than Islam, ' it will never be
accepted from them, and in the
Hereafter they will be among
the losers."
The fundamental pillar of Islam is obedience and surrender to the Almighty Allah SWT alone. Now you may have a clear idea about who is good or who is bad.
Me too! No direct answers here.... won't help my non-Christian friends....
JESUS Himself stated, “do not be afraid of those who can kill the body ; but Fear the One, Who can destroy BOTH BODY & SOUL in HELL!”
Hell is real!
Gehenna: the valley of Hinnom, a place of refuse/criminal body disposal.
@budekins542 Daniel 12:2
Mark 9:48
@@stephenbailey9969 an archetype for the lake of fire
@@ezrabraig7086 Exactly.
I'm sorry but I just find NT Wright confusing. I wish I didn't. But I always have so much trouble just trying to figure out what he's actually saying and what he actually means. At the end I just don't really understand what he believes.
I feel the same exact way. I tend to be Leary of these people.
He just doesn’t know what he is talking about. He is the New Age teacher. False teaching
@@abrahamnorwood5361 Well I wouldn’t go that far.
He is a false teacher. He doesn't believe in biblical creation.
He fits in well with premiere christian radio who are well on the road to babylon
@@abrahamnorwood5361
THAT'S 💯 RIGHT.
Call him out for what he is!!! 🐑🕯️🕊️
He doesn't seem to know much of anything about The Holy Scripture's does he.
Probably because he doesn't.
I really appreciate NT's comments on the idea of heaven as our destination after death. This idea is simply not biblical, but I hear Christians say it constantly (I usually bite my tongue). Indeed, our destination is the kingdom of God as the new and reunited heaven and earth.. God himself comes to dwell forever with his people in this kingdom--the earth is where we were created to live forever--this is what was lost in the fall. Christ, the God-man, reunites these two realities.
If i ever convert, this is what id believe.
@@PatrickAdams-q7r Amen
We must be born again to see heaven. Seek Jesus and ask for his salvation x
Yes, but believers who die are with the Lord… in heaven….not the ultimate eschatological state of things, but nonetheless WHERE YOU WANT TO BE when you die. The celestial city coming down to earth is at the END. I don’t claim to know all about the “timing” of these things….the resurrection,people having glorified bodies, etc. It seems NT Wright is too educated for his own good. More of a philosopher than anything. Thinking about hell developed in reformation times?! Jesus described it quite well….it didn’t need development.
Rev. Chaps 21-22 pr loves, Christians will live forever with God in a Spiritual existence.
I disagree with most Intellectuals, as most view things thru philosophy, more than literal.
While awkward for us Westerners who believe we can know everything and that the Bible is "all literal", this discussion held differing beliefs in tension. I didn't have a problem with NT Wright drawing back to lay down foundations of belief before coming back to the question. I liked that he didn't say, "This is exactly what happens!'' because no-one knows. It was a good starting point for more exploration and study for those who wish to do so.
I was very disappointed with this. Much of it was vague and abstract, often using mythical language, when what I wanted was as clear as possible an explanation of what is really going to happen to us after death. "Heaven" and "Hell" are place names and to understand the issues I think it essential to start by providing an understanding of cosmic geography. The Bible has many terms that imply a cosmic geography. A good example is "Sheol" - Hebrew for the underworld - in the OT. This need not mean what Dante meant by "Hell", but is definitely "down", not up. Similarly Jesus told the repentant thief he would be in "Paradise" with Him after death. Elsewhere we learn Jesus went "down" not up before the resurrection, which at the very least implies Paradise then (maybe not now!) was "down". Paul tells us that he went up to the "third Heaven", which implies there are two other heavens. I could go on... With a bit of time and effort I think it is certainly possible to construct a coherent understanding of cosmic geography from the Bible, so why not do it? It may lack detail, but tells us enough to know quite a lot. Once we have that, then describe what goes on in each place. There is enough to give as a decent idea. Incidentally, I have found modern NDE research very helpful in putting flesh on the Biblical bones to coin a phrase. (See Dr J Steve Miller's excellent books on the subject.)
A second disappointment was NTW's implicit acceptance that there are many "good" people, who for understandable reasons don't come to faith before death and who seem ideal material for Heaven. The problem is that according to the Bible there is only one genuinely "good" person (Mar 10:18) and that is Jesus. Only those united with Him and who therefore share in His goodness get to Heaven. It's elementary stuff - the basic gospel - yet NTW didn't say it. Sadly I have lost a lot of respect for him.
but the hebrew Sheol isn't the same things as the more recent (from west)idea of hell. A righteous man(and the bible describes that there are righteous people: before Jesus; that doesn't mean they were totally without faults) was in Sheol and was contacted by Saul, and got angry he got disturbed in his resting in Sheol. Sheol wasn't a place of torment. Also the Bible is pretty clear about how God will judge all people by their actions later: so a "good person" will possibly meet Jesus after death and get to accept Him as lord, and be given the grace Jesus death has given us (in the face of God's judgment). I think you need to read more of N.T. Wright to understand more what he believed, and this video can not give the full picture.
@markquigley Look at the final Judgement - Matt. 25 and Rev. 20. This is the judgement of unbelievers in which some - the righteous - are saved. Not the glorious salvation of the faithful perhaps, but still a salvation.
Mark Q
This man only speaks about what he understands, (intellectually)
which doesn't matter whatsoever,
because he doesn't even make his points
according to Scripture.
(Meaning it's NOT The Spirit of God).
Which means, it's just a bunch of small talk.
When people are pretending to be knowledgeable in the things of God Almighty, they will not really use much Scripture, but can sound convincing if you DON'T know what Scripture says.
Jesus said,
YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN,
according to Scripture.
That means we MUST BE BORN AGAIN.
Being born again, of God Almighty.
When this happens, you will be A NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST JESUS, according to Scripture, old things are passed away and ALL THINGS BECOME NEW, according to The Holy Scripture's.
The things of God become something that you yearn for.
HUNGER and THIRST for.
The Holy Bible becomes REAL,
and The Holy Spirit helps you, as your teacher, understand The Holy Bible.
John The Baptist preached
REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.
Repentance is not a work.
It is a mandatory requirement for salvation.
Repentance is being truly sorrowful for your sins against A Holy God, your/The Creator.
It's The Holy Spirit that shows us our complete depravity and our true state of a filthy, sinful being, before a HOLY GOD ALMIGHTY.
You are able to see yourself through HIS eyes, and that brings sorrow for your sins against Him, and repentance.
True repentance CHANGES you.
Everyone that is born into the world 🌍 is of the seed of Adam, in a fallen state.
If you REMAIN IN THE FALLEN STATE, &
ARE NEVER BORN AGAIN,
there is only one destination after you die, and that is HELL. 🔥
People don't like believing that,
which is why so many people (like this person,) try to find a better & easier way to heaven,
and completely ignore & twist what Jesus Christ, and The Holy Scripture's say most of the time.
They are ear ticklers.
People love it because they can pretend they are going to heaven, and do absolutely nothing here but live a sinful and wicked life, embracing the world 🌍.
But then when they die, they realize it is too late. 😖
Jesus said,
LOVE NOT THE WORLD 🌍.......
Jesus said,
DENY YOURSELF
PICK UP YOUR CROSS
FOLLOW ME.
Jesus said,
If you save your life you will lose it, if you LOSE your life, for my sake (Jesus) & The Gospel's, you will find it.
But, unfortunately , people make things up so they can pretend to be saved AND love the world 🌎 too and not read The Bible, and NOT do anything it says.
If you are never born again of God,
it's because you
NEVER TRULY BELIEVED on The Lord Jesus Christ,
& what He did for you at the cross of Calvary.
THIS IS THE GOSPEL.
The Holy Bible says that the WAGES of sin is ☠️ DEATH.
We can NEVER pay the debt (wages) due for our own wicked ways against God.
We CAN'T.
SO JESUS DID.
PERFECTLY.
ONCE & FOR ALL.
IT WAS FINISHED.
Jesus came to the world 🌍 He created.
Humbling Himself &
NOT doing His Own will, but doing HIS FATHER'S WILL, Who sent Him.
Jesus walked a perfect, Holy, SINLESS, life on this earth,
as 100% Man (The Son of Man)
AND
100% GOD, (The Son of God)
Jesus fulfilled The Old Testament (which ONLY GOD could do) and
ushered in
The NEW Testament (Covenant).
Jesus Christ died on the cross for YOUR SINS,
& the sins of the whole world,
according to Scripture.
FOR: 'Whosoever will', come to Him, in faith, BELIEVING in Him, and what He did for you on that cross.
He paid the PRICE God The Father required for Him to be our Lord and SAVIOR.
He PAID THE DEBT YOU OWED that you could NEVER pay.
He shed His Holy Blood on that cross, and DIED for you,
& TOOK YOUR PLACE,
AND
HE ROSE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD, HE IS RISEN, AND ALIVE FOREVER MORE
HALLELUJAH JESUS!!!!
so that if you BELIEVE IN JESUS,
YOU CAN be BORN AGAIN of God.
The Bible says
These SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT
👉 BELIEVE 👈
(read The Scripture for yourself).
I hope that you will SEEK THE LORD JESUS while there is still time to do so.
He already KNOWS everything,
be honest with God.
He is a merciful and loving God if we come to Him BELIEVING, that He IS, and that He died for your sins and ROSE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD, AND IS ALIVE FOREVER MORE!!!!!!!!
THE KING OF GLORY.
JESUS CHRIST.
The Son of God Almighty that paid the price for WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE ON HIM.
ONLY..... BELIEVE 🐑🕊️
JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.
@@Lovett6011
If you die an unbeliever, you will never have any righteousness.
Either Jesus Christ is your Lord & Savior when you die, and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, He imparts to BELIEVER'S that are born again of God,
or it's too late.
There is no second chance after you die.
That is a lie of the 🌍🐍😈.
Don't believe it.
Call upon The Lord Jesus Christ NOW, while He is near, and you are still breathing. SEEK JESUS WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART.
Jesus said that the way is NARROW that leads to Life, & FEW find it.
Don't believe the liars 🐍😈 that tell you otherwise. It's NOT
The Truth.
Jesus Christ is Lord.
Heaven and Hell by Bart Ehrman.Hell was invented by men.Also see Bart Ehrman
videos on hell
Just an insight into Wright’s mind… Usually he doesn’t answer a question directly when the question is inherently flawed and bogged down by poor presuppositions. So he spends a good deal of time fixing the question to what should have been asked and then answering that.
This is why it is important to listen to someone and not just look for them to signal the “correct answer “. When we wait for someone to use a buzzword, we end up like the world around us. We become more concerned with people agreeing with us than hearing what they have to say.
Just my experience.
Bingo!
and he ignores scripture.. Romans has nothing to do with salvation according to him and he endorsed a book by steve chalke entitled the lost message of Jesus where Chalke accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser...
Some people here in the comment need to investigate their heart and ask themselves: why do I want people to go to hell?
What made you think that's the matter behind their comments? "Wanting" it?
@@danielnatzke6733 those who feel spoken to know. Thats for who it is
I agree with you. The people we hate, often we create a "god" who hates the same pple we do..... perhaps often unknowingly.
I don't want anyone to go to hell. That's why I point people to Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. He paid our sin debt in FULL and came back from the dead. Anyone who simply believes in Jesus Christ as Savior has (present tense) everlasting life (John 3:16). The whole reason Jesus shed His blood on the cross was to pay our sin debt so that we don't have to go to hell. Those who reject Christ as Savior will suffer eternal conscious torment in a literal fire-burning hell (Rev. 20:15). This is true regardless of whether or not they believe in the reality of hell.
@@DougandMax no they wont. Rather than seeing the "lake of fire" as a place of unending torment, its the final and complete destruction of those who reject Christ.
The term "eternal punishment" in this context refers to the permanence of the punishment, not the duration of conscious suffering. In other words, the punishment is eternal because it results in complete extinction-those who reject Christ cease to exist, rather than being tormented forever. The Bible often uses fire as a symbol of destruction, such as in Malachi 4:1, where the wicked are compared to stubble burned up, leaving "neither root nor branch." This suggests total annihilation rather than ongoing agony.
The bible constantly uses hyperbole also. Iyts good to understand the way people wrtote back then. For example, in Joshua 10:40, it says Joshua "left no survivors" in his conquests, and yet we find in later chapters that there were still people living in those areas (Joshua 11:22). This use of hyperbole is common in ancient Near Eastern writings and was understood as a way to express the totality of victory or destruction, not always a literal, exhaustive extermination.
this view aligns better with the character of a just and merciful God. Eternal conscious torment for finite sins seems inconsistent with God's nature, whereas annihilation still upholds His justice by removing evil completely without eternal suffering.
What I'm learning from Dr Wright that this notion of clear categories placed in either or boxes is not always the case when pursuing sound exegesis rooted in historical and contextual understanding of the Bible, the use of language as influenced by the culture of the times limits us as to how we understand a text, this cautions us from bringing late presupposition which I'm finding is what has led to most misunderstandings characterising how we understand subjects as gehena a concept readily understood in the1st century.
..yes, and when does he even quote scripture when he is talking... he doesnt tell us how the plain teachings of scripture can be interpreted to fit his thinking... i can think of loads that conctradict...
It was Jesus that brought the whole concept of hell to us in the first place...
I greatly appreciate N.T. Wright's brilliant mind, his eloquence, and his depth of scriptural insight. He’s undoubtedly one of the great Christian thinkers of our time. However, I find his lack of clarity on key theological issues, particularly heaven and hell, frustrating. He seems to vacillate between different views, such as annihilationism and universalism, without offering a concrete position. He leaves the fate of those who reject God somewhat unclear, not fully addressing what Jesus said about eternal punishment.
While I agree with Wright’s emphasis on trusting God's justice-that He will judge fairly-I believe we must also acknowledge the clear biblical teaching on hell. Jesus’ use of the word "fire" signifies the intense pain and suffering of separation from God. While the concept of eternal, literal burning isn’t exactly scriptural, the image of fire reflects the seriousness of eternal loss. The consequences of rejecting God are real, and we can already see the devastation caused by separation from Him in this life.
I think you're saying that Wright doesn't fit into your predefined categories. Perhaps it's those categories that are wrong?
@@stevependray His categories according to the ideas inside his head, or, what the Scriptures, THE SCRIPTURES say ?
It's the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that opens our spiritual eyes to understand God's Word which means that wherever we find ourselves on society's intellectual gradings, we all have the same opportunity to hear from God. His Word tells us that if we seek Him with all of our hearts, we will find Him.
Jesus spoke about hell an awful lot and I prefer to rely on what Jesus said in the Gospels and Revelation. If hell wasn't such an absolutely devastating place why would Jesus have gone through all of that suffering to save us from it.
When Jesus speaks of perishing, I believe it is always ultimately in regards to eternal loss - loss of the soul - even if it is also in regards to events that occur on this side of eternity.
'What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul?
Sometimes too much intellectual thought on these matters can lead us down false path, which i think, is also the reason why some of the traditional theological colleges are well suited to scholars who don't necessarily hold the Bible in highest esteem. I'm not referring to NT Wright here, but rather to so many of those within the Church of England hierarchy who seem to value their own opinions more than the Word of God. Sadly much of the Church of England seems to have already gone or be going apostate.
God hasn't made some things clear, on purpose, and so NTW doesn't presume to claim one view over another, at times. The Greek is clearer than English; Hebrew also at times, but usually a quagmire!
@@larryrue6673 So when the book of Revelation says "lake of burning sulfur", it means, what, Elvis is alive, or that cows are aliens from another planet? When the book of Revelation says that the Beast and the False Prophet are there, it means something else other than what it says?
At judgement, some will hear “enter into the kingdom.” Others will hear “depart from me.” Sounds like a straightforward description of heaven and hell as equally opposite destinations to me. 🤷♂️
As a child of the 60s .in evangelism we were shown 2 pictures of someone on there death bed,One was surrounded by Angels the other by devils complete with pitchforks,red suits ,etc.,
The only way you can go to heaven through Jesus❤
What is his answer as it was very waffling and maybe I missed it.
lol, when listening to NT Wright I usually end up knowing less about the topic than when he started.
His answer is that Heaven is actually going to be a summation of Earth and Heaven in the new creation, that there is a holding place after death called paradise, and that he believes in some sort of final hell - but he can’t decide between some measure of annhilationism (the imaged ones rejecting their image of God) and eternal conscious torment, but he seems to lean fairly more toward annhilationism, given his reference of Lewis’ talking beasts.
@@chronicmango thanks so much I was worried someone would reply negatively for asking. I appreciate the time and clarity.
@@rw3452 you're a beautiful person
It’s pretty clear. But if this is the first time you’ve heard him speak on the subject then you don’t know a lot of background. A couple of phrases and words he used are packed. Just scroll through the other Ask NT Wright Anything and you’ll learn about it.
As a former Protestant who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy over 25 years ago, nothing was more refreshing than Orthodoxy's absolutely profound understanding of who Christ is and what he accomplished (Christology). One's view of eternity hangs on a rock solid Christology. There are several things that I think need mentioning, and I think I would start with the idea of the eternal soul. This idea, as far as I've found, has absolutely no basis in Scripture. Only God is eternal. Period.He can grant us eternal life (which always includes the body, as the Incarnation/resurrection makes clear) through the work of Christ, but it is not innate to humanity--the Tree of Life was taken from us. Christ became that very Tree of Life in a cosmic inversion of the dead tree of the crucifixion and His dead body into the life-giving tree and the fruit of his body as eternal life. This event also includes Christ's destroying of Death AND Hell through his resurrection. I often ask evangelical Christians where hell is if He did in fact destroy it? Did he destroy the power of death and hell or not? I believe many evangelical/Protestant believers have embraced a very distorted and harmful Christology. There is a great deal of fallout from this and much more that could be said about, but I think I'll stop there for now.
The destruction of sin and death is yet to come, as evidenced by the fact the Creation is still frustrated (Romans), our loved ones are still dying and Christ’s Kingdom is yet to come on earth as it is in Heaven.
Again, I would say that this is evidence of a less than cosmic Christology. Jesus speaks of his kingdom in the present tense because where Christ is there his kingdom must be fully present. He says, “the kingdom is upon you”, “the kingdom is among you”, “the kingdom is within you”-ALL present tense. On what basis can you say that Christ’s resurrection didn’t fully accomplish the destruction of death?
So Patrick, do you believe in the end all will be saved?
@@PatrickAdams-q7r well, quite obviously death still abounds all around us and also the Apostle Paul writes to the Corinthian church, in 1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Like Gregory Nazianzus, I would like to keep that door open. Not on the basis of our goodness, but on the basis of God’s goodness and the radical depths of His love for us. Can a Hitler be saved, you ask? Well, if he can’t, then God’s love, grace, and goodness apparently have their limits. What is the depth and depravity of any human soul? Yours? Mine? Do you presume to sit in judgment over another? The teachers of the law certainly thought they did. They were God’s chosen people, yes? Yet who received Jesus’s harshest rebukes? It wasn’t the tax collectors and “sinners”.
John 3:16
Sums up the two human destinies in one text!
Through faith in Christ we have the assurance of Eternal Life, we need not “PERISH” !
John 5:28-29
What the 2nd-death fire 🔥 destroys, is destroyed forever! Revelation 20.
Amen 👍
As an EO believer (who is a big fan of Wright), I have to share that 1. how we do eschatology is, in fact, the Lewis approach: hell is a chosen state; and 2. the angst over unbelieving loved ones is mitigated, in part, by the apostolic practice of praying for them.
???????
The common objection to universal salvation goes like this: "Why assume God will save everyone? That’s just your own wishful thinking projected onto God. You're assuming that everyone has some goodness in them that God will eventually restore. But God is just-He knows who to save and who is beyond salvation."
But isn’t this critique also an assumption? On what basis do you believe that some people are beyond salvation? Did God ever say that? In fact, everything we know about God points to the opposite-that He can do whatever He wants, and He has clearly said that He desires to save everyone.
Everything in religion is an assumption. Everything.
You don't truly 'know' anything about God. Theists mistake religious beliefs for factual knowledge and then create dogma and traditions to support those beliefs until everything feels like its real. But there is absolutely no way show that. Then men spend lifetimes arguing obscure points based merely upon opinions debating opinions about beliefs.
Well put. Fellow Universal Restorationist here.
@@Outspoken.HumanistAll opinions on salvation are opinions. Unless we have an authority. Like God and his word the Bible
@@RKLCan But that depends entirely upon believing a number of assumptions. That God exists precisely as you imagine and that the bible is God's word. And the only assurance we have of that is, the bible.
We have absolutely no way to show either of these assumptions is true and i'm sure you don't question them.
But why not?
I would also, respectfully, suggest you read the bible a little more critically and you will see that there is no single agreed upon route to salvation, or even a single description or understanding of God.
@@RKLCan "Like God and his word the Bible" which is another assumptive leap and not at all conclusive or provable.
The prophecies were so specific for the first coming, but the people of the time couldn't see it. Does that mean the second coming prophecies are just as specific, but we wont know it till we see it? After all, Jesus scolded his people for knowing the time of the their visitation. Does that mean we are just as responsible for the understanding the prophecy of the second coming?
Instead of the lengthy theological talk we have here, for me it was simply what Jesus said very clearly about Heaven and Hell in Matthew 25 that led me to reject Him - dividing mankind very clearly into sheep and goats, with endless fire for the goats. I thought to take the problem to a clergyman, and to prepare I wanted to find all the places where Jesus spoke in this way. I sat down with Luke. As I read the Holy Spirit came to me through every word, and the Love of Christ enfolded me. No answer to me about Hell, just the overwhelming presence of the Saviour. I wish big name theologians could convey to us something of this - even though the Hell question is left unanswered, Christ will always triumph for us even in our angry opposition to Him.
@@WPFinlay Jesus speaking about heaven and hell in the bible is not evidence....
@Starchaser63 the problem is our English translations have taken 4 different words that have different meanings- sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus and translated them all into the word hell. So, be careful when you assume Jesus is speaking about hell. Sometimes Jesus is speaking to the Jews about the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and the language he uses could sound like he us speaking of the end of the world.
@@Starchaser63 What kind of definition for evidence are you going by to make that assumption?
@@zacdredge3859 your a good example, because if you had sufficient evidence you would have included it in your response.. also the real deal is Jesus actually showing up now and again...
@@Starchaser63 So to be clear your answer is Jesus 'showing up and now and again', are you claiming these visitations as the evidence in question? Otherwise I didn't think you addressed my question at all.
Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us in His Father’s house and would come receive us to Himself so we can be together where He is. And Jesus went to Heaven, so we are going to Heaven too.
In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus taught about the great tribulation and warned everyone to repent from sin, watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to _escape_ all the things that are coming. So when we go to Heaven, we will also escape the greatest tribulation in human history.
Amen
Amen
If you don’t come to the Lord and receive him as savior, you don’t go to heaven Jesus says he’s the only way❤
How can you ... When family inot in heaven? As my mom days: 'you'll be rejoicing at His Righteous Judgement, in perfect peace, perfect perfection, always forever rejoicing never in infinity ever being able to comprehend the beauty, Glory, 'Mind', depths of the depths of .. I have no words
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Jesus descended into hell and destroyed it! Do you really think a loving God would create man knowing that some would burn in hell for eternity. The Heavenly FATHER would be a monster!!!
Exactly
If a person rejects the free gift of eternal life, then they pay for sin with their own life and they die without resurrection
Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven.also a parable doesn't mention names .he talks of the rich man in hades and Abraham and laxarus in paradise..where jesus took the thief. To paradise. Idk if hell is eternal..or finalized in the lake of fire second death..but i just dont want to find out.. accept jesus because there is no promise of tmr..if good could get u to heaven. We didn't need jesus did we..ty very much
And he didn’t say much about hell much either. What he did talk about-a lot-was that the Kingdom of God/Heaven was at hand and all the blessings that would flow from that would come too. So, no, hell wasn’t a big part of his preaching. And, by the way, he used the word “Gehenna,” not hell. Gehenna was a garage dump outside Jerusalem, which sometimes would burn and sometimes not. May he intended to mean “hell, but I wouldn’t so eagerly conclude that’s what he meant. Unless you’re eager about sending people to hell.
@@kentzepick4169I can't believe people think Jesus talked more about hell than his coming kingdom.
The idea that Jesus “spoke more of hell than heaven” simply isn’t true, and I’m sad the idea hasn’t gone away. By far, the most prominent topic of Christ’s preaching was the Kingdom of God, specifically how that Kingdom is breaking through into our world, which is why he told his disciples to pray that God’s will be done “in earth, as it is in heaven.” Additionally, Christ preached a call to repentance: he taught us a new way to live in THIS lifetime, as members of the family of God.
“From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” - Matthew 4:17
@@ShawHortonMusic Amen
Amen
Typically unclear by Tom. Not helpful and not insightful into what the Scriptures say on this.
Despite claiming to reject modern reinterpretation, he’s still doing it. In Jesus’s time, it would have been well-understood that he was talking about a new Kingdom of Israel, which only the righteous would be permitted to enter. When Jesus mentions Gehenna, he’s referring to a physical place (look it up). It’s also clear that Jesus himself preached repentance, and a return to righteousness, while Paul introduced salvation through faith.
At 17:24, notice how he reframed the second question as though anyone who can’t accept the Gospel has been hurt in some way, and that it’s at least somewhat their fault for refusing to see the good side of Christianity. That’s not the problem, it’s the evidence. This is directly related to the Problem of Divine Hiddenness and the existence of non-resistant nonbelievers.
His statement at 19:39 was telling. This is not an answer, it’s an excuse. Without wiping people’s memories, it’s impossible for people to be fully satisfied with Heaven. Here’s a thought: Why not bypass suffering and skip straight to the best possible world? If it’s better than Earth there’s no point in creating Earth at all.
You are right
That’s actually a common misconception. The archeological and textual data do not reference Gehenna as a physical place of punishment until about 1,200 years after the composition of the New Testament. Before the New Testament, within the New Testament, and after the New Testament, Gehenna was understood as a postmortem place of divine punishment.
I don’t like to make claims by my own authority, so I’ll refer you to Dan McClellan’s video “Was Gehenna a Place for the Punishment of the Living?” which he made two years ago.
Edit: I should say that Gehenna was not a burning trash heap in the 1st century.
@@user-kv1po2dm5j Thank you for the correction. I’ll have to do some more research on that. There must be some reason why it was associated with Hell (or vice versa) but his video didn’t fully clarify that for me.
"why not bypass suffering and skip to the best possible world"... This is like spoiling our children with every possible luxury instead of letting them learn how to become responsible adults
God doesn't want eternal babies, he made us in his image
@@Yonen1688 I guess we should let the children play with knives, then.
It’s one thing to challenge people and quite another to inflict suffering. Those of us in countries with access to the internet sometimes forget that. In order for your theodicy to work, every bit of suffering would be there to teach us a lesson, and I don’t think that’s the case. After all, there are some people who suffer and never hear the Gospel, in which case they will end up suffering for all eternity in Hell.
His idea of forgiveness reminded me of a the Beatles “the love you take is equal to the love you make”.
The more I listen to NT wright the more that I believe that he should be a Roman Catholic in his doctrines, most of that was almost in agreement with the Roman Catholic teaching of purgatory and universalism that God will accept all people eventually no matter what religion for God they worshiped in this life after they die... It's quite sad 😢
Why do you think it's sad?
@@MrThehellyousay
Because it is a lie 🐍
@@MrThehellyousay Because its not biblical. Thats why its sad when a new testament scholar believes that.
@@MrThehellyousay there is much other stuff as well
Tom Wright says that the book of romans has nothing to do with salvation and he endorsed a book by steve chalke entitled the lost message of jesus where chalke accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser...
there are plenty of other theologians out there, like Mike Overy comes directly against Tom wright and others who try to do away with the atonement in his book 'Pierced for our Transgressions'
or just read scripture for yourself and believe what it says....
A question always in my mind not resolved yet: when Christians died and Christ’s return to renew a new heaven & earth, what will be new heaven & new earth likes? Does this mean world technology will cease ? No more cars, TVs, phones, etc..? Do we still have businesses? Do we still have our hobbies? Etc…?
There are no good people, just the saved and the unsaved!
what are you saved from? critical thinking skills?
@@Wander4self Is the Bible God's Word, or no?
@ first you must prove the god exists before you can tell us you have captured its words in a book.
@@Wander4self You're wanting proof for a God and the Lake of Fire for the unsaved who don't place their faith in Christ? You'll find out in less than the next 100 years, within that timeframe the evidence will be overwhelming.
@
I’m So sorry you have been convinced without evidence to believe such nonsense. Religion has removed your critical thinking skills, and your humanity.
I really enjoyed watching this video, I believe NT Wright did a very good job discussing what the BIBLE taught, not what people teach or what modern Christianity teaches. What I found particularly intriguing was when he discussed the Greek Orthodox man who was confused at the idea of heaven and hell. The man and people like him know a later form of the language used and are able to better understand the original texts of the Bible without having to translate it, so it’s meaning is more understandable to him and people who know the language without the confusion of translation. So he knew that the Bible doesn’t talk about heaven or hell the way people think about it today. Also the discussion of the different views of what happens “after” was interesting and had me thinking about what exactly I believe. There were so many cool things said that definitely has given me some good food thought. Thank you so much for posting this video!!
Must be a confused person to believe in NT Wright
What about Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16?
In reference to C.S. Lewis, I found it helpful to read The Hope of the Gospel by George MacDonald. MacDonald ignited Lewis' imagination through his fairy tales, but also deepened Lewis' spiritual life through his.published sermons. The text is public domain, and an audio version can be found through the Librivox project.
Pretty clear to me that the New testament teaches hell is the eternal abode of all those who reject Christ as Lord & Savior.
So what's that mean, then?
@@grantbartley483 Read the gospel of Matthew, Luke 16.
It is crystal clear. Eg, what did God prepare for the Satan and his Angels? Matthew 25
Dont listen to scholars only - study yourself what the scriptures say.
If that ridiculous claim held any truth, it would contain the vast majority of the world’s population. No country in the civilised world has a majority Christian population.
@@DA-yd2nyso does study yourself mean use English translations based on the original manuscripts or use the original manuscripts? Because when you use the original… it seems as if you then have to know a lot about context and the history of other documents in the first century and before. And frankly after. I think flawed thinking is that your English translation is sufficient, because it is not.
@@DA-yd2nyLuke 16 is a parable. The Pharisees believed in Abraham’s bosom
The Father dosen't send anyone to hell
We send ourselves through our free will choice to turn against Him
Except of course that the Bible clearly says God is judge and sends people to hell.
@j7489 Agreed, the Father is the only judge... But the question is, what is the Father judging?
I believe that scripture tells us that we are symbiotic creatures, human+being (Genisis 2:7, Matthew 10:28, etc)
Our human part procreated by biological process our being/spirit part assigned to us by God.
My understanding of scripture is that God exiled Satan to this rock called Earth. (Revelation 12:9).
The same rock The Father created us on.
God didn't have to do either but He did both. I believe that God had a purpose creating us on the planet He exiled Satan to.
God designed us with free will, I believe that God's purpose in designing us with free will is to test our spirit while we exist on earth as humans. (Genisis 2:16-17, Romans 8:13, etc)
Satan owns this planet we call Earth. I believe that simply because he offered it to Jesus Christ (Matthew 4:8-9) and He could not offer what he did not own.
it is free will that allows us to choose between mortal temtation or spiritual reverance.(Galatians 5:17)
And it is those choices. Our free will choices that is judged by the Father on our day of recognition.
@@j7489 yes just as a judge sends people down for the criminal acts they have done... they have earnt their sentence...
but Jesus has paid the price for our sin for all those who accept his sacrifice...
This is why I cannot stand NT Wright. He doesn’t answer questions. He tap dances around them to avoid being unpopular. He is a coward.
He's not a fundamentalist. Nor was Lewis
I do get the impression that he avoids answering questions directly
What didn't he answer?
Well when he visited our vineyard church in Feltham, UK, he was promoting his new book at the time, the day the revolution began, basically in that he claims that romans has nothing to do with salvation...
I asked him a question around a verse that says it is everything to do with salvation, his answer was so convoluted that i didnt understand what he said....
but basically Tom Wright does not believe that romans has anything to do with salvation... our getting to the renewed? (new?) earth by passes the atonement...
Also interestingly he endorsed a book where the guy was claiming that God was a cosmic child abuser, The lost message of Jesus by steve chalke..
@ Exactly. He doesn’t believe in the biblical definition of atonement or justification. But when you press him on it, he’ll word salad on it. He’s a shameless charlatan which is to be expected from his Anglican roots. He is arguably one of the most dangerous false teachers out there. Thank you for sharing your experience about him!
As I read somewhere “there is none that is righteous, no not one.”
The New Heaven and New Earth are ONE place.
Lots of Bible verses describe what The Newly made Earth-merged with Heaven will be like.
“Death, the final Enemy, is Swallowed up in Victory”.
Heaven isn’t a place.
@@GodFamilyHonorCountry Amen
Such arrant nonsense, only believable by remarkably gullible and deeply ignorant US Americans.
@@Ton1956Y well it is if you believe what the bible says...
Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
My frustration with N. T. Wright is that he often gives long, meandering answers to questions the Bible gives direct answers to. It comes across like he doesn't really want to answer them. While I agree with him at certain points like heaven not being our final destination, he seems to dance around the issues that people need concrete answers to.
"he seems to dance around the issues that people need concrete answers to."
yes he believes in a renewed earth but regardless he does away with the means of getting there, namely the atonement... he does not believe that the book of romans has anything to do with salvation...
He endorsed the book the lost message of jesus by steve chalke where CHalke accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser...
NT, give a straight answer. You can then take your time to elaborate. :)
"NT, give a straight answer. You can then take your time to elaborate. :)" the problem with that would be that then people would know what he believed...
what was he doing when he endorsed steve chalkes book the lost message of Jesus where chalke accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser...
what is he doing when he says the book of romans has nothing to do with salvation....
He visited our church and we read, the day the revolution began to be able to answer intelligent questions...
I quoted something from romans which directly says it is everything to do with salvation, he gave such a convoluted answer i didnt understand what he said so i was non the wiser...
Why do intellectuals refuse to just say “yes, hell is real. The Bible clearly teaches hell is real.” None of this “final loss” nonsense. Hell is real. Jesus believes in it and taught it.
Because intellectuals used their intelligence.
The bible is never 'clear' on anything that is why you have all this 'interpretation'.
Hell? Jesus taught it and believed? Research Gehenna and its meaning! Not Hell (a pagan concept and actually a pagan word Hel)
@@benindahl9233Matt. 25:46 “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life”.
Don’t be so stupid. There is no heaven, no hell and no god. Show evidence of hell, show evidence of a god. Religion is absolutely made up nonsense 😅
Some people find the end of final loss offensive? Yes, of course. How could one not find it offensive? On the basis of limited knowledge and limited awareness, not to mention finite sins, God allows one to ruin oneself forever? It is just not compatible with the notion that God is love or good or merciful, unless one uses these terms equivocally (as Calvin does). And why would anyone reject God forever? If God is the source and end of all goodness, truth and beauty, we could only reject God as a consequence of a deep seated ignorance. Why would anyone in their right mind knowingly choose misery over infinite happiness and goodness? One would have to be either ignorant or insane and therefore God would have to be less than perfect goodness to permit that. To know God is to want God. How could it be otherwise?
If God is as good as the Christians say he is, and hell is as bad as the Christians say it is, who in their right minds would knowingly chose hell??
@@JoBo301 Yes, exactly. You could only choose "hell" under the aspect of the good, in which case you would misperceive it, and so you wouldn't be choosing it. Moreover, you cannot reject God if you fully understand what God means. If God = the true, the good and the beautiful, you cannot reject him as your will is always orientated to them, as even St Thomas Aquinas says. You cannot will evil qua evil.
Exactly
@@dallasgraham2813 There is something irritating about N T Wright. I don't find him to be candid. He's always dancing around questions because he doesn't want to offend his co-religionists.
I love the distinctions between Hebrew/Christian understandings of soul/life after death and those of Plato. It seems one's conception of soul is the crux of many of these conundrums. Why not ask Dr. Wright about his view of near death experience, which points toward the reality of what he called the Platonic view of the soul: eternal in its nature. Near death experience forms the basis of so many people's faith these days. But if the Hebrew/Christian soul is dependent on the body and needs the gift of eternality from God to continue after death, what of these reports, many of which express certainty of a loving God as the essence of everything?
Knowing NT wright He probably just gave a 30 minute long nuanced speech and danced around the whole answering of the actual question. Jesus makes it abundantly clear that yes God sends people to hell. I just saved you 32 minutes.
1. Matthew 10:28
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
2. Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'”
3. Matthew 25:46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
4. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
"He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might."
5. Revelation 20:15
"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
6. Mark 9:43
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out."
Well done.
I ca not believe NT Wright says Hell is Plato. Satan with red skin and a 3 teeth fork is Greek mythology but not Hell. Hell is all over the New Testament. If we throw out Hell we might as well throw out hom0$€xuality, which these preachers nowadays so badly want to do.
🤦🏼♂️
AMEN!
Counter Point
God will judge some by their own conscience (see "EXCUSING" end of v15)
Rom 2:14 This is how it works out. Gentiles don’t possess the law as their birthright; but whenever they do what the law says, they are a law for themselves, despite not possessing the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their conscience bears witness as well, and their thoughts will run this way and that, sometimes accusing them and sometimes excusing them, 16 on the day when (according to the gospel I proclaim) God judges all human secrets through Messiah Jesus.
Loved it!! Suggestion, doing a podcast about this other views that we often see as christianity, but in fact are platonism, gnosticism and so on... I would love to see some comparisons
The people who are going to hell always have the “strongest” arguments for why hell doesn’t exist
And I find the opposite is true: Those who are sure that they and their group are the only ones not going to hell just might be surprised where they end up. "EVERYONE shall be salted by fire"
@@fightintheshade That’s presuming a lot.
If I don’t believe in a literal hell, then I’m going there? The Bible doesn’t teach this. It does say; “Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent.” John 6:28-29. Pretty simple message.
Then they end up there 😂
Remember everyone that this man is an expert on Heaven and Hell, the way JRR Tolkien is an expert on Hobbits
"That is not a Jewish or Christian idea, it's an ancient pagan idea" - the problem is in Luke 16 Jesus is recorded as saying - 'The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.'
So Jesus seemed to be painting the EXACT picture which Dr Wright rejects as Jewish or Christian. Even if it's viewed as some sort of parable, it seems very odd that Jesus presented such an image if Dr Wright is correct.
How does he reconcile this?
I completely agree. Luke 16 treats the fires of hell very literally, which seems to make sense within the Jewish context of belief in a bodily resurrection. Clearly the writer of the parable, or Jesus himself, if he truly told the parable, pictured hell in a very specific way, as a place of never ending bodily torment. It is not easily written off as a metaphor.
@@coreyi.634 If it is literal then it wouldn't make much sense. The Bible says those who have died are sleeping in the grave.
Dude, this before the Last Judgement, not after it
Your problems are that there is zero credible evidence that your imaginary magic man ever existed and that, in the primitive Middle East, his voice was ever reliably recorded as he spoke. Your gullibility is remarkable.
@@anushkasekkingstad1300 And where is your evidence that the universe came into existence without a creator?
Damnation is clearly called 'eternal destruction' in the NT. I think this means, destruction forever, but also, destruction from the point of view of eternity, which implies finished.
@@grantbartley483 bingo!
Tom Wright has studied and written a lot. But his inability to teach truth in clear short sentences is a sign of spiritual confusion. How different to the New Testament and Jesus' own teaching! Please don't let him confuse you. Praying for God's mercy for this man.
yep loads of theologians disagree with him as does the bible 🙂 its just that he is one of the ones that escaped the academic bubble.... dont put him on a pedestal, let the bible stay there, not him... we have many translations of the bible done independently of each other and they come up with virtually the same thing, believe them, not Tom wright... (apart from the passion translation, that is not even a paraphrase - Brian simmonds lied about his translation skills)
Who can resist his will? His will is that all come to eternal life?
How can anyone believe God is Love and also believe in hell the place of eternal torment?
Right - There's no eternal torment! It's destruction for the wicked.
@ how are those different?
@@TaylorHenry-m6z One is everlasting torment. The other is destruction - termination - nonexistence. I think you agree it's the latter, right?
@ I discovered that the words judgment in the Bible refer to a cleansing and healing. I believe everything that does not look like love will be destroyed in humanity, and all will be saved because God is love. The only hell I believe in is the fire of God that is his love which restores not terminates a human
@TaylorHenry-m6z No torment?
The Christian creator-god is deeply evil. It created the human soul, a set of rules applying to human thoughts and behaviors, and sends some of them to an eternity of torture for having used their free will. And who created free will and installed it into humans? The creator god. And did this creator god know ahead of time that some of these souls would be tortured for all eternity? Yes. And while alive, does this god demands his followers be grateful to it and love it unconditionally? Yes, again. Is there another top-pantheon god in any other religion who is even remotely close to the Yahweh’s odium? No.
Here’s the good news. Yahweh, and all the other gods, do not exist. We imagined them into existence, and we can think them away.
Keep fooling yourself
@@lesleyh4437 ... Can you actually address the theology I challenged, or are you content to cower behind threats of hell?
Logical
This man is a gift to the global church. ❤
Wright's teachings, while popular, can be dangerous as they undermine core Christian doctrines like justification and the reality of hell, leading many believers away from the true Gospel.
nope, he does away with basic chirstian doctrines like saying Romans has nothing to do with the atonement in his book The day the revolution began..
he endorsed a book by steve chalke entitled the lost message of jesus where he accuses God of being a cosmic child abuser...
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. *If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?* In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. -James 2:14-17
I'd love to go with all this philosophical, scholastic prettification and I really abhor the Dantic depiction of hell. But this gentleman here, is a "New Testament scholar", so what about the Lord's very own words about hell? Because...He was rather very clear about it!
This gentleman tried to water the reality of hell. I will follow the teaching Jesus Christ better.
The idea of Hell as something other than a place of suffering and pain may not sit well with many modern Christians, who often find satisfaction in the imagery of non-Christians receiving the punishment they deserve. I believe William Lane Craig calls it "the demands of divine justice".
You're right. It's very seductive to the dysfunctional ego which loves to be "right". Eternal hell is the ultimate satisfaction for the believer; the eternal " I was right, you were wrong" ego trip. It is devoid of love, although it cannot see it.
@@DIBBY40 But 'dysfunctional ego' is the 'image of god'.
It's a human invention yes
No one is good; no, not one.
Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is none righteous, no not one;
vs 11 There is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God.
vs 12They have alll turned aside; They have together become unprofitable
See Bart Ehrman and Robert M Price videos in hell.Straight answers
And logic
Bart Ehrman - he doesnt even believe the bible is reliable or accurate... LOL !! hardly going to get biblical answers from him..
I do believe that NT wright is absolutely wrong about hell and not for sure what he stands for or confirms when it comes to specific doctrines of the Christian faith because it's almost like he's afraid to offend the world and the ungodly. It kind of reminds me of the Pope the way that he speaks because it's hard to nail down exactly what he is confirming
This gentleman sound like the new age teachings.
@@abrahamnorwood5361 Dismiss 'new age teachings' at your own risk. All teachings were, at the time, 'new age teachings'! Some are so much better than medieval thinking and ignorance!
Nop, he’s teaching about heaven and hell in their original context, but most Christian’s won’t accept this. If you don’t agree you should better provide an argument instead of complaining and attacking the person rather than the argument, which btw is a fallacy. (attack the person instead of the argument)
@@05TheMilo First, the Xtian version is not the only story of Hell, nor is it the original/earliest.
And every Heaven/Hell story is metaphor! (look it up)
And what, exactly, did I say that you disagree with?
Feel free to stop attacking me, as you say, a fallacy, and provide a focused 'argument', if you can.
What a great example of;
"We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are!"
@@nameless-yd6ko Jesus was a new ager, or, is He GOD who became Man?
God doesn’t send anybody to hell we choose help with our own free will
In Revelation we are taught that the beast and the Antichrist will be thrown into the lake of fire and suffer eternally and then those whose names are not written in the book will be thrown in and this will be the second death. Therefore they will be annihilated.
When’s this nonsense supposed to be happening?
@@anushkasekkingstad1300 At the last judgment. All those whose names are not written in the Book of Life. Whose names will be written there? I am not sure but I do know for sure that all who rely on the great and terrible sacrifice for his or her sins that Jesus made on the cross will have their names written there. "I owed a debt I could not pay, He paid a debt He did not owe, I needed someone to wash my sins away! So now I sing a brand new song - Amazing Grace - Christ Jesus paid the debt that I could never pay!"
@@DianaKathleenBurgess this book of life sounds no less nonsensical than the bible. Who supposedly writes and maintains this imaginary book? Who wrote the bible and when remains a complete mystery to christians yet they somehow find the gullibility to accept it as being somebody’s truth. We look at the massive computer systems our individual governments need to keep track of our basic details, yet you seem to expect that your celestial Kim Jong Un somehow keeps track of all of us. We’re fortunate to live in the free world and have no wish to live under such scrutiny, celestial or otherwise.
There is zero substantiation evidence your “Jesus” ever existed far less was sacrificed. No of my family was even born when this spectacle supposedly happened, far less had committed any sin ( whatever you might imagine those to be) Any sacrifice he supposedly made, certainly wasn’t on our behalf and we certainly owe no debt to any imaginary being. If you’ve been heavily indoctrinated to believe you owe some debt, that’s entirely your problem, not mine. Here in the Nordics, religious indoctrination of our children in our schools is a crime. My wife and I were protected by this legislation when we were schoolgirls and nobody dared expose us to the evil nonsense that is the bible. Thankfully, our young daughters are equally well protected.
He didn't answer, I love N. T. Wright but he he tries to play political mumbo Jumbo. Hell ..is mentioned too many times ,as a place of torment ,just can't play with this answer
Anyone who tells you they know what happens after death is either a liar or a fool.
The presupposition here is that Christianity and it's traditions are correct, but that cannot be shown to be true. They are merely beliefs; simple opinions. They might be true but they might equally be untrue and there is absolutely no way to know for certain.
I know... We have a bible and God explains it all in simple language even a child could know for sure. John 1 . read it.
@@georgekrats2573 I have read it, cover to cover, many times, for over 40 of my 66 years. I am a student of the bible and religion and I remain unconvinced.
But my skepticism isn't the issue.
You seem to be simply accepting the bible as true but have you ever looked at it critically or read the work of biblical scholars?
Imagine, just for a moment, that the many different authors of the bible were just men, doing their best, and that whilst some of it is useful and some of it deeply disturbing, none of it can be shown to be truth or fact using verifiable evidence.
That would not mean God doesn't exist. It wouldn't even mean Jesus was not divine. But it should make you question what you think you know.
What I have described is the reality of the bible. It is a collection of very different books by men with different agendas and different views on God. There is not and never has been a single uniform message.
What you believe is none of my business, and you may even be right. I can't prove otherwise
I only seek to highlight the differences between what we believe and we can know to be fact.
@@Outspoken.Humanist what is your source of truth? Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life.go to john 1 says the Word was God .then verse 14 it says And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - Jhn 1:14 KJV the bible is my truth..how about you mr i read the bible for 40 years and still am not convinced. whats the problem? lack of faith? i read the bible through about 2 times a year . i study i go to bible study go to prayer .they even let me preach a couple times. im 62 got saved around 50 years old so i havent studied as much as you but i 100% trust Gods word as truth.
@@georgekrats2573 Truth is something which is in accordance with the facts. Facts are only established through verifiable evidence.
You quote Jesus and the gospels as if you are automatically speaking the truth but you have no way to show that. All you are really doing is repeating words written by other men. Words you may believe but which you cannot show to be true.
@@Outspoken.Humanist thats your loss
If you’re watching this, you must check out John Crowder and his series on Hell for a comprehensive and vastly more hopeful take on these issues.
No one goes to heaven and hell when we die. All remain in the grave till Jesus comes in His glory. And hell is not an eternal burning fire. Revelation makes it clear that God will rain a brim of fire to destroy Satan and his angels and all whose names were not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. The burning will be for a time and will cleanse and purify the old earth to a new one which will be occupied by the redeemed.
Agreed but how does this comport with the Lake of Fire being called the second death?
I think you need to study the Bible over again.
@@goblintown that is what I am talking about.
U slow asf read the Bible
I'm thinking of the Jesus that said " no one that does not hate his mother and father and brother...is fit to be my disciple". St Symian predicts that Jesus will bring great strife. Jesus speaks dismissively about his mother and brothers when they ask to speak to him, and dismissive of his mother when the townswoman cries blessings on the womb that bore him. When he says in that in heaven there is no meeting a former spouse- he says we are like angels, we are all pure souls! Oh, where do we get the idea that heaven will be a family reunion!?
If my child rejected me, hated me, even tried to kill me, I would punish them but never ever torture him or her in fire for all eternity. The medieval idea of hell is absurd. This is a god claiming to be loving and forgiving, but is a cruel being not worthy of my worship. I am more loving and forgiving than this god.
You cant have a God without a deterrent, people just become emboldened to do wrong.
I think such simple analogy ignores the fact that humans are not at par with God and punishment can be in many different way. Some parents reject their stubborn kids and cut them off, some parents will give their children up when they commit heinous crime, so your analogy is not entirely correct. We have the cannanites burning their own children what happened?
Andrew, the point SBD is making is that God is so far beyond us in goodness and love. Surely it would mean that human parenting at it's best wouldn't be better than what God is capable of?
You're ignoring the fact that a perfectly loving God needs to be perfectly just. You can't have love without justice. Apathy towards evil is evil in and of itself. Hell always feels "horrible" or unloving to people who have a weak understanding of love.
@@majose7787 torturing a person in fire for eternity that you created sinful in the first place is not justice, it’s insanity.
Catholicism is a works based false religion.. you are saved by grace thru faith.
Faith without works is dead from the book of James.
@@amoy3508 that verse has nothing to do with salvation
@@amoy3508 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: - Eph 2:8 KJV
Not of works, lest any man should boast. - Eph 2:9 KJV
@@georgekrats2573 You have to read the NT in its entirety. It all applies.
@@georgekrats2573 You still have to serve God by works. Build up your crown.
Doesn't Matthew 25:31-46 about the Sheep and the Goats basically state that it's not as much about whether a person is a believer or not as it is about whether they are kind and considerate and this is what gets them into Heaven?
Unfortunately yet more british theologian waffle opinion without clearly answering the question from the The Word...
For example, would have liked to have heard a clear exegetical explainaton of Jesus' assertion :
Matthew 25:46 ESV - And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Not all of us British are as silly as these theologians.
Am not a believer, but if you are interested in what the typical response to this is it's usually along the lines of "punishment" here being a word that connotes condemnation and deprivation and can either be taken to mean I) unconscious (annihilationism) ii) conscious (traditional "hell") or iii) reversible (various kinds of universalism).
"Eternal" here meaning something more like "the constant state of affairs unless something changes" rather than "unchangeable state of affairs".
Aren't you asserting that "eternal punishment" is hell? And why is it "waffle"? Doesn't God gift us each with discernment?
To answer this it would be important to get some understanding regarding the term "eternal" (aionion in Greek). In the ancient world it doesn't amount to what is often assumed in the English-speaking world. Also, one must get it out of their heads that universalists don't believe in hell or "stations" of post-mortem suffering, if you like, which can last a really long "time". That's simply not true. The caricatures here can be very misleading.
You need to read beyond a modern English translation with heavy theological import. The modern view of hell has to be imported into that scripture to make it work.
This is a lot of malarkey. Forget about Plato. You are idolizing Clive Staples Lewis!
Did God decide to create humans (knitting them together in their mothers womb)knowing that some of them wouldn't believe that a man rose from the dead thousands of years before they were born. He could have just made the ones that would believe.
Is it possible to come to God after death? How can the will of a loving God be done if any one is eternally unsaved?
Wright has lost the plot. So much of his teaching is plain wrong. The New Perspective run wild!
I don't think that a summary dismissal of Dr. Wright's perspective as "plain wrong" is warranted without an equally eloquent expression from his critics. Perhaps this podcast will invite you to articulate your perspective.
An imaginary god doesn't send people to an imaginary hell because both don't exist in reality. They only exist in people's mind!
He is wrong
Tell us where he is wrong then
Check the original meaning of the word "hell".What was the word translated hell in the first place?
@@jessemontes799 whatever you want to say what the original word was, the NT actually descrivbes what the word hell means... so you can call it anything you like...
Rev 20:10- And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever (aion) and ever. (aion)
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:10-15 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever (aion) and ever. (aion)
Aion means age, ages and ages so it may not be eternal but then you have the two verses below confirming that it is...
Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ 49 For everyone will be salted with fire. ESV
Isaiah 66:2 And they shall go out and look at the dead bodies of the people who have rebelled against me; for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh. NRSV
Let me tell you about death. Falling asleep in front of the tv without the waking up. That’s death for you in all its magnificent glory.
Exactly...life after death is a contradiction in terms
Your explanation about heaven and hell is rather convoluted and anti-Bible. Jesus talked about hell more than he did about heaven. Ambigous, heretical and very disappointing. Taking from both sides but not committed to either heaven or hell. Very sad.
Yea the ol Jesus talked about hell more than heaven trope. That’s simply not true. Jesus definitely talked about Gehenna and sheol that are mistranslated into hell. Also, you have to import your modern view of hell into the text to make it work which is incorrect. If you want to be biblical you may want to look into what Jesus actually said and meant within a deeper reading beyond the English translation.
What's sad is that you are completely blinded by your own dogmas pounded into your head by people with no reading comprehension skills.
Amen. This man doesn’t know the scriptures.
He has other "strange ideas" like "replacement theology" in which Christian church replaces Israel in all the future prophecies! Beware of his views.
Interesting that all this talk is based on the New Testament gospels which were written by unknown authors using information from undisclosed sources. How do we know that any of the unidentified authors of the New Testament faithfully reproduced the words of Jesus? There were no tape recorders, Dictaphones or court reporters back in the day. We all know how fallible our memories are.
If you believe in God and that God has revealed Himself through written words testifying to what has actually happened in God’s Word, it’s not difficult at all to accept what has been written as true. If this is merely a human process, then it’s not a very interesting issue anyway.
What a load of dribble! Wright is Wrong.
He is wrong indeed
Firstly, He is going to be with mankind. He will lead many to righteousness. Read Daniel. He will punish any evil doing. That is the meaning of the hell Jeremiah and Isaiah spoke of: utter destruction of the worst of people.
Torment (in the words of the Christ and his disciples) actually meant the being tested (passive of basanizō) by the touchstone (Gr. basanos, Hebr. eben baĥan). That is why smoke rises in eternity. There was no value in such ones, and it will be proven.
Lk 16? Is parody, mockery of Pharisee's teaching. He turns their hatred and cruelty and ignorance against themselves.
Name 1 piece of evidence for hell then we'll talk 😊
Jesus mentioned it clearly.
@@cre8509Buddha wouldn't agree. If we talk about Islam..Muslim heaven looks very different from Christian heaven. Also, thousands of other gods (who are all very real to some other cultures) wouldn't agree with any.
A big mess mate!
Ugh shut up. Stupid argument. Stop asking for implicit physical evidence for philosophical questions. Try a little bit.
@@iks9120actually Buddha would likely agree with Jesus’ inherent messages. I imagine Buddha would undoubtedly reject interpretation of Jesus as it is seen today.
@@jrw585jxc Agreeing with messages or with philosophy of religion is not a synonym for believing that the religion is true. I do agree with Christian values, but I don't believe that they came from Christian or any god. I do believe that it is good to do good, but I don't believe that heaven exists. Same goes for Buddha and Jesus.
I understand NT perfectly
I had ticked Like but at the 20minute mark your guest started ranting on about the eucharist, breaking of bread Rubbish - It was then your soft spoken guest revealed himself as a Nutcase!.
And then I ticked the other.
You might want to consider that whether you agree with him or not, NT Wright is considered one of the most foremost Christian biblical Scholars of our day and most surely has earned the respect you deny him. You might want to rethink the attitude, because millions have been edified and brought closer to Christ through his work.
I truly believe that proper analysis of all this can only to the conclusion that we as Catholics have, ie Purgatory for sincere God seekers who are part of the Elect. See NT Wright 's previous video explaining who the Elect ARE.
...but where is purgatory in scripture. it just isnt there..
There is no heaven or hell.
How do you know
@fransclements5879 cuz no evidence.... womp womp
Errrgh❗️ WRONG‼️
You’re going to find out otherwise. Please open your heart to the Creator. ❤
I tend to agree with you, but we have absolutely no proof either way.
I am left with the question: for those who have become less human non effective image bearers where do they exist in their resurrected body while effective image bearers enjoy the union of heaven and earth?
There are people walking about in your town and mine that are already in a hell. If they don’t repent, they will stay there.
If you are answering for NT I can say I thought I understood what was/was not being said. Let me ask the question a different way for clarity. For the people in our towns who are walking in a hell, what happens to them when heaven in its fullness (the return of Christ) arrives? Do they remain in our towns or are they relocated in another town? What or where is that town? @@rampartranger7749
NT Wright, at 12:30, says that all were born as image bearers but if we choose to reject God we choose not to become image bearers. That's not quite right. We are all born in sin, carnal in nature. Unless we are born again in the spirit we cannot become image bearers. Sounds like a lot of double talk.
Have we received an official word on this podcast? Will it just be re-released content from here on out?
What about the lake of fire Rev 20:14? Outer darkness Matthew 25:30, 8:12, 22:13, ....? Luke 16:23? ...
These verses prove that there is no annihilation (total destruction)
*"These verses prove that there is no annihilation...."* I disagree. None of the verses that you cite offer any support for the pagan notion of eternal conscious torment.
Let's make this easy ::: Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 (NKJV) Ps 37:20 But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. Psalm 37:20 (NKJV)
NT says the meanings of words are slippery. But not as slippery as theology which he just makes up to sit his culture and time. There is no word of god. Every generation makes up it's own meaning. Nothing could be more obvious.
If there’s no possibility of a positive outcome from one’s incarceration in hell, is this something that our loving Lord would be associated with? ✔️
Honestly, I’m beginning to think that the Roman Catholic doctrine of an afterlife process of purgation may be on the right track. ✔️
“If punishments are remedial on earth, it’s quite logical to assume they would be remedial in the next life as well.” ~ David Burnfield
The word “everlasting” should be properly translated as age long or belonging to a future age. ✔️
Good point, Doug. The original Bible manuscripts do not contain the word "hell" or any word that means hell. The fate of the unsaved is death, as in 100%, all-the-way dead.
► Sheol is not hell.
► Hades is not hell.
► Gehenna is not hell.
► The Lake of Fire is not hell.
God doesn't do anything because he doesn't exist. Time to drop this silliness. It's 2024.
It takes the same evidenceless beliefs to say that God doesn't exist as the evangelicals claiming their beliefs.
If you make a faith claim that there is no Creator, you need to provide clear evidence to justify the "faith" of atheism.
@@GordonPasha1885 Lack of evidence in a god = atheism. Not hard. A god must have evidence, if not, default is atheism.
@@nameless-yd6ko good point!
@@thecrowing1989 it's the other way round today, and you have FAILED THE CHALLENGE! It's really that simple!
Is it me? Does anyone know what he just said or didn't say😢
THE HELL OR THE PARADISE BEGIN FROM THIS LIFE HERE IN THIS CORRUPTED WORLD.