The Evangelical Universalist - Robin Parry Interview
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2014
- Robin Parry is interviewed on how Universalism can fit into orthodox Christianity.
Robin Parry (under the name Gregory MacDonald) authored the book The Evangelical Universalist
www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Uni...
I've been a studying Christian since 1975. Started out as a baptist. Saw that the structure of the baptist church inherently sets up up let say a mild tyranny of the almighty pastor. There's a lack of appeal. Then, still within the baptist model, as a teacher, I bumped full on fighting against Calvinism. I lost that one. Then started to see grace unfold to children via baptism and the lords supper. Universalism has come to me as the only way to interpret the Bible without having to tear parts of the Bible out. One is either man centered or Christ centered and if not universalist, one must needs place some aspect of salvation upon the shoulder of man -- which is not just repugnant to a jealous God, a total insult to the person and work of Christ, but how stupid do we have to be to know what fallen man can be depended on. The heart is evil ...who can know it? Universalism hit me one day as I was studying Romans. I did not expect an opening up to love my fellow man as this doctrinal perspective seems to release. This perspective is a game changer. This man is right on. And, he is gracious.
Universalism hit me when I remembered 1 Tim 2:4 where it says that God wants all people saved, and I asked myself, "Wait a minute, in the end, is God's will done?" I hadn't even heard of Love Wins by Rob Bell yet. And there's a bunch of verses that say God's will will be done.
Bob Parsons, Artist m
@Daisy Fields no force necessary. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess... One has to read coercion into that promise. I used to think it pertained only to the "bad" guys. But won't that be a normal reaction to seeing the Son of God revealed?
@@bobparsonsartist564 your initial comment was so well said. Sitting like this... 😢
I was Muslim, then atheist and when I came to know Jesus I was so excited and happy after having understood who he is, I was like wow this is amazing, he really loves me so much! And he'll never leave me, imagine that! I've been Christian for 3 years now and in this walk so far, slowly the joy of my salvation was being stolen when I started getting the idea that God is more judgmental than merciful which isn't true. I think he's perfect of both... Became close with some calvanist and started doubting my salvation, a whole lot of things and so I so related with the baptists and calvanist and their views. I for the very first time a week ago by Holy spirits guidance, came across the universalism word. Just so shocked at what I'm learning and part of it is that it's almost experiencing the renewal of the joy of my salvation. Sorry for such a long story but your comment was just so on point.
@@sheri2845 th-cam.com/video/YocjQoP7MRI/w-d-xo.html
A very intelligent conversation. Jesus did it all for all past, present and future generations. God is awsome.
Luke 16.26 rules out Universalism
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 Why do you feel that way? The conversation takes place after their deaths, but I don't see anything in the text that says that it must take place after the events of Revelation. Just because the rich man is in Hades at the time doesn't mean he will always be there.
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 You are misreading the rich man and Lazarus parable. You need to ask yourself, who had five brothers. What prophecy was fulfilled with "the dogs came and licked his sores?" "Without a parable did He speak."
We all need to remember that God, has total power and not Adam, as we see in (Romans 5:18), (1 Corinthians 15:22), (John 12:32) as well as all through His entire word. For the Lord will not cast off forever, though he brings grief, He will show compassion. (Lamentation 3:31-33) For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)
I love what Robin Parry is saying here, it is a message that gives me hope and that brings genuine joy to my soul ; thank you Robin !
Thank you so much for this clip!
Why all this Christian resistance? It puzzles me that the most impossible alternative in this issue has been the most established one, at least in the Western churches. Christian Universalism is IMHO the only option and the whole Biblical story makes sense when you realize that God´s intention is certainly not to loose the battle against evil. My favorite verses in that regard are Romans 5:18, Eph 1:9-11 and Col 1:19-21.
Thanks again!
Why all the disagreement between Christians???
Because more than half of all Christians believe that man has a freewill that is stronger than God's will. 🙄
i always think of the self righteous son in the parable of the prodigal son when some christians call universalism heretical.
Kyle Otero exactly
Kyle Otero Yes I was thinking the exact thing! If the feast is allegory for heaven then the second lost son is excluding himself through his own indignation and false piety....but the father keeps pleading.
I appreciate the fact that Rev. Parry presents universal reconciliation in an orthodox way. It is right that he recognizes that his views on this subject are at odds with most of the tradition, but not heretical. I agree with him on all counts.
How do you read Luke 16.26?
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 you open your Bible and read it. That’s how you read it. Hope that helps
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 The rich man and Lazerus is a parable and even if it's literal the dead in hades get resurrected.
Any "gospel" that believes that God will not ultimately bring all things to the fullest and greatest end imaginable is not a "gospel", but a declaration of failure. If all are not saved, then Jesus will have indeed lost many of his own, that were given to him - which is all humanity.
I love the last comment. "God is awfully good at what he does". And what is God better at than redemption and reconciliation?
1 Corinthians 15 is an inescapable revelation of God's total victory through Christ.
Great find!
@Daisy Fields Sadly you mischaracterise the message of the universally inclusive gospel.
Nobody is saying that anyone is going to "get away" with anything. All will be brought face to face with their deeds committed in this life. But to think that this means an automatic sentence of ETERNAL punishment in Hell is to accuse God of gross injustice. God intends to RESTORE everyone, not condemn 90% of people who have ever lived to a sentence that is impossible to fathom. Do you really think that in 100 trillion years, that God will still be punishing people for sins committed for a few earthly years?
Secondly, God has FULFILLED the promises in the "Law", which is the whole Torah. Abraham wa told that through him EVERY family on Earth would be blessed. Well, that promise was fulfilled in Jesus. Paul tells us that it was God's plan "to bring ALL THINGS together, whether things in Heaven, or things on Earth, under one head, even Christ". How can that be true if 90% of humanity is in some dungeon? Is God so in love with Hell that he is going to keep it going for EVER? If you think that I think you have a different God than the ABBA of Jesus.
And lastly, Hell cannot be eternal, because "Hell" is destroyed in the, "lake of fire" in Revelation 20.
Bless Jesus. Finally seeing others preaching the true gospel
Parry is such a sweet brother & the interviewer didn't interrupt him.
And he ended with, "God is awfully good at what He does." Amen.
~Steven of Montreal
No Sin of Men is greater than the Love of God.
Luke 16.26 rules out Universalism
@@ecumenismwherearewe9571 Not only is that a parable, there's nothing to suggest that that is eternal.
A very wise, compassionate, and honest conversation. Very comforting.
"The Arminian is right, God loves everyone, God wants to save everyone, Christ died for everyone... The Calvinist is right in saying God will get his purposes done, God will achieve his purposes."
People, I did not cross over born of the Spirit because of my health, I crossed over because I wanted to follow Jesus. I am now a Spiritual man living a righteous life, not being carnal minded. The things I use to love I now hate, and the things I hated I now love. My music is Christian. My movies is Christian. I don't go nightclubs, only church etc. I no longer fornicate, I am married. I follow the commandment, Love thy neighbour as thyself. I am now a full pleage Christian. If you are willing to read all scripture you will get my point.
V
Jhn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good work.
Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Yes both are right in that matter. But theres a special love for Gods children, and everyone will not be saved.
@@dist221 Just wish that were true but study the words of Jesus. Jesus said the ungodly people will be destroyed by fire and brimstone.
@@colinmurphy6000 Have I said anything else?
@@dist221 You said everyone will be saved. Please study the words of Jesus.
I've been saved, forsook my Savior, embraced evildoing, repented, experienced restoration. There is no depth of depravity one may sink to where grace cannot be found in abundance and where Yeshua is not there. We have to remember the Life is in the blood. The Lifegiver resurrects much of deceased humanity at what many Christians regard as 'the resurrection to damnation' where it is 'too late for salvation'. Yet it is the resurrective power of Yeshua's blood that reaches into the grave and into the sea and brings back the masses of humanity! Just by being there, people will have already been beneficiary to a postmortem application of lifegiving resurrective power made possible only by Calvary!
I’m so glad this doctrine is being unveiled
Anybody believing this doctrine is heavily deceived, and will not inherit the kingdom of God if you don't come away from it, because you have a false Spirit deceiving you.
All of you should know Jesus warned of false teachers in the last days, those deceiving themselves in the last days and heaping unto themselves false teachers. If you deceive yourself then that's your fault. God already warned you these things would happen in Scripture. If you choose to go to hell forever, then that's your choice for not turning to him in faith and repentance, and not being swayed by the rest of the world.
@@Jesus_Is_Lord257 you don’t have faith that jesus could save everyone?
@@magi144 He could if He wanted to, but scripture teaches against it. God's word is true, and there are no exceptions. Heck, even if I only had to burn for 24 hours while being tormented by demons just for not placing my faith in Jesus, I'd much rather choose to place my faith in Jesus than to spend 24 hours in hell. It will be VERY, VERY bad for people who go there. Like really bad... But that's what they chose.
@@Jesus_Is_Lord257 Are you aware that the word for Age is typically translated as eternity nowadays?
No one would ever choose that. That's ridiculous
Also a great one. 'Love your enemies' but He will send people to hell to torture them. Going against His own nature.
Our fallen nature is happier with hell then with God saving all.We must read the greater texts that God saves all such as Luke 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
After we read these greater texts that demonstrate Gods power we can then have a better and fuller understanding of hell.
If hell is real and I get the choice I'd have to go there out of compassion. Isn't that what our Lord would do?
Yes, God is loving and just. Justice was served on the cross.
great book i have become a believer in universal salvation, eventually all Christianity as it moves towards the truth will come to the knowledge of this truth
Also these two channels are good..
Jesusexclusivesavior and fathers house ministries
thanks
Ye after 30 years as a pentecostal I finally have come to the same conclusion. Saviour of all men .
Octavio Martinez: th-cam.com/video/ZzJQ6CC8I3Q/w-d-xo.html
don't be deceived by the devil; only those who keep on believing in Jesus Christ will be saved; the scriptures are for those who are alive, not for those already dead !
Universal salvation is the only Gospel that gives God all the glory.
+SwordofManticorE WRONG! If everyone is somehow "saved".... then NO ONE is saved because the word "saved" no longer applies. If there is no opposite condition to actually be saved FROM then using the word "salvation" is meaningless. You have to have an opposite condition of "non-salvation" in order for salvation to have meaning.
Demonic deceptions always have these sort of quirks and contradicting fallacies.
+Breckmin Your problem is that you don't know how to read scripture.
scripture is clear... there are indeed eternal consequences. Demonic deceptions almost always contain over simplistic interpretations of passages which are elliptical. (i.e. all will be made alive.... nonsense taken out of context without the logical qualifications of other scripture).
Whether your statement is projection or not is irrelevant. The scripture is clear.... and the spiritual conviction of the Holy Spirit regarding eternal justice gets rid of demonic deceptions when the bride is under persecution.
We can praise God that when believers are persecuted... the nonsense of homosexual marriage, universal common descent hypothesis and universal redemption is rejected based on the Holy Spirit's conviction.
Eternal justice is not wrong. This is what you do no understand.
+Breckmin Prove it!
I'm not certain you can prove something to anyone who has an agenda.
The law of identity should have already been proof enough (goats/sheep, tares/wheat, enemies/friends, disobedient slaves/adopted children, etc). Without distinctions in identification...such concepts are meaningless.
The blasphemy (eternal sin) of the Holy Spirit should have been enough to convince you... your agenda keeps you blind to identity.
Mark 3:28.
Matthew 7: 13, 14
Matthew 22:14
Luke 13:27
Romans 9:27
Matthew 25:46
Revelation 14:11
1 Samuel 3:14
and there are many other verses which i could give...most you probably already know of.
Just like you could give over-simplistic interpretations of verses like 1 Tim. 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, and 1 Cor. 15:22 and a host of other verses that I know...
demonic deceptions thrive on scriptures which are succinct and elliptical.... the truth shows that the verses are just missing qualifiers.
With God, all things are possible. So how can Salvation Beyond The Grave be impossible for God ?
Christ himself rules out Universalism in Luke 16.26
Nothing is beyond the redemption IN Christ ❤️
God destroys his enemies by making them his friends. St Isaac of Syria
Excellent interview.
in Romans 5 Paul gives this thought that Christ affected all humanity in a similar way that Adam affected all of humanity.
"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." Romans 5:18
... as if to say Christ undid the fall of humanity. ..
"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 cor. 15:22
"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. " 2 Cor. 5:19
"... one died for all , therefore all died" 2 cor. 5:14 ...
when these verses say "all", do they not mean all of humanity??? .. ofcourse they mean all of humanity! ...it seems we were all in Christ's death burial resurrection and ascension...
+Bryce Aguirre I agree.
+Bryce Aguirre Absolutely! Word games to keep us deceived of the Power of Christ's blood.
i'm a universalist, and we all know and can recite His 'law' .... 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth'... that is worse case scenario!!! if we were not in the age of grace, that's as bad as His 'justice' gets really.... not 'eternal torture for an eye, eternal torture for a tooth'
People want to split gods justice from his love. But even if it was possible how is it just to send a finite sinner to infinite punishment?
They will probably jump to "God is outside our understanding" or "that's just a mystery our minds can never comprehend" yet Jesus specifically cites Deuteronomy and says we should love the Lord our God with "all our mind" as well. The outside of our comprehension arguments never add up.
@Daisy Fields I dont believe that anything that comes to exist is forever lost. Because what exists is itself made from eternal existence itself. If nothing existed once then it would be eternal nothing. But if something exists forever then what it is made comes from that eternal existence therefore having its nature
Exactly! ❤️
@H. Thomas so, annihilation is merciful in your thought? well, it is not in mine. how is that not akin to what an abortion doctor is doing to an unborn child. In the mind of the doctor, he is annihilating the child because the mother does not want the child and both the mother and the child are better off by annihilation.
I think you should consider going back and finding the pieces of the puzzle(one of which is) where Paul says "where sin abounds, there grace more abounds" and a few others. you will be much happier and those you propose are annihilated will be happier too!!
@H. Thomas its more plausible that everything we see was created or came into existence from something or someone that already exist. Nothing cant come into existence. Nothing does not exist so nothing cant be created from it. Humans have the body from dirt, but the spirit comes directly from eternal God. Even matter cant be destroyed. Its says the earth will be destroyed. But what the earth is made of wont be destroyed because it's made out of eternal substance.
The ultimate conquest of your enemy is to get him to sincerely love you. Satan achieves it through Stockholm Syndrome, but God cannot achieve this through a granting of repentance? And since when is there an expiration date on the blood of Messiah?
Universalism is ruled out by Luke 16.26
I love this...truth personified! 🙏💖
I’ve often thought wouldn’t the likes of Hitler being redeemed make the story of Redemption even more powerful? Wouldn’t that just be typical of God to have such incredible grace!? I love the idea that the work of Christ running that deep.
I also find it interesting how Christians can on the one hand bring up the Hitler argument (as in the interview) yet in the next breath be very comfortable with the idea that ‘sinners’ will be lost for all time in a sea of lava, with no hope. That kinda reminds me more of Hitlers mentality, not Christ’s.
Great discussion and food for thought!
I agree. They see God as a torturing being. A sadist, so to say. God is omnipresent, so He will also be present in hell, to see all these people suffer. I just can't understand why people see God this way. Preaching about salvation and grace...
It gets even worse. They have to come to grips with the idea that not only is Hitler in hell, but the millions of Jews he killed will be burning right there next to him for all eternity.
Make it make sense.
Sako Gekchyan good point. It’s really hard to get your head around right?
Eden Garden and who the heck actually makes it? Like what is the ‘right’ belief, prayer, faith...going by what many say, most will not make it. And then an eternity in burning hell with no chance of escape ever...does that really seem like justice?
Andy
Exactly. Which Christian denomination is right? Catholics? Protestants? Orthodox? Bear in mind that all of these denominations believe that they are the true church and to be outside of them is to be damned.
Very interesting video! The story in Daniel of the 3 Hebrew Boys being put in the furnace of fire, who were then joined by and rescued by a 4th in the person of the Son of God - could this be a picture and type of what happens to those who go into the flames of hell for punishment, after which God's eternal plan of reconciling all by His grace comes to save them from hell? I never thought of this before, but could this be how God's justice, mercy and love could be exhibited in sequential order and fulfill His divine purposes - Does this make sense?
In my scenario above, all those who were not saved before they died here on earth, would go into the fires of hell and be punished in proportion to their sins here on earth in severity and length of time. So a Hitler's punishment in hell would be both more severe and longer than someone who had also died without Christ, but without the extra baggage of evil that Hitler was guilty of.
@@benalubenalu990 I also heard that the punishment would sort of be equivalent to the amount of pain caused to other people
I can't think of another view that I disagree with that I like so much. I mean it when I say that I sure think it would be great if I were wrong.
What about all who died prior to Christ's death and resurrection? If his blood can save them, why not all those who came after the resurrection? This message gives blessed hope!
Most Christians insist on putting an "if " on the end or a " but " at the end of every piece of good news.
Total Victory ❤️
they will have their part in the lake of fire - it is only a part , temporary not a full destiny - it is eonius a time period - not everlasting hell fire
Luke 16.26 rules out Universalism
father forgive them for they know not what they do - here Jesus is asking god to forgive everyone. every tongue will confess and every knee will bow saying Jesus is lord - and if you call upon the lord you shall be saved amen - in this grace period it is voluntary but in the wrath / judgement of god - every enemy will be put under jesus feet - unbeleivers they will be purified in the lake of fire until they are ready to call upon jesus as lord amen
Very well said
I am glad I saw this! I have being a Christian so long 16 years but could not understand why would God torches people forever and ever eternally while we be on the other side with him happy! and human beings! family members screaming forever and God just watches and is helpless! I don't see how God could not stop this because it hurts and it's billions and billions of years
+michael daley Be careful bro. This would be great if all of us will be spared from eternal damnation. But what if this is wrong? What if what Jesus said is true when he said "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
+Cueball Doe It is indeed true.
Breckmin
Which one? The universalist's view or what Jesus said?
Cueball Doe both
matrixlone
few will find life and all will find life cannot be both true.
The doctrine of eternal torment didn't become the majority doctrine of the church until the 5th century when Augustine began to push for it. There was a time when Universalists were the majority and those who believed in eternal torment were a radical fringe minority. The doctrine of hell was ripped off from pagan religions. If you ever saw The Mummy Returns (2002), towards the end the earth opens up and swallows the Mummy. You can see him being taken down to hell where people are writhing and being tormented in flames. That's because Egyptian mythology has a hell. The writers of the movie obviously did some research into this.
With righteousness there must be justice. There will be judgement and the sentence must be carried out but it’s temporary.
Amazing break down on Christian Universalism!
Gehenna is a dump place in the valley of Hinnom outside the Jerusalem walls. That's why the apostles only preached about Gehenna to the jews not to the non jews because they had no clue what Gehenna was. Gehenna is not hell, you can still visit the place to this day.
Great comment.
I totally agree. 👍
It is amazing that there is now a neccisity to convince 'religion' of Gods true nature. I say this because the way the interviewer asks the question. Whether God is capable of saving his creation is a question that should never have to be asked. It just shows home much lucifierian/humanistic thought has persuaded our apprehension of the gospel and early churchs' message. But being that religion which is represented in the garden of eden as the tree of knowledge of good and evil and later as the tower of babel. Religion is in fact mans way to reach God from the ground up. Instead of surrendering to that which comes from above.
Read the shack by Paul young papa is waiting
What makes me wonder about this is the multitudes (billions) of people throughout history who were born in other religions, lived their entire lives and died, many having never heard of Jesus. I have always wondered, are they really damned? If that is true, there is nothing I can do as a mere mortal to change that, but it still bothers me.
Thank and praise God that Jesus is the saviour of the world. 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
His chosen priesthood before judgment day and the rest in the New Earth...
If God was so angry at man, why would he have ever died for us?
If he died for us, clearly it wasn’t his anger motivating him.
Hell makes no sense
To say that it is God's mind to reconcile every single person to Himself after the Great White Thrown Judgement when it is not directly said in the Bible is a prophecy. 2 Peter 1:20-21 "above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." If we believe that after Christ came, the apostles are no more and the Canon is now closed, prophecies have ceased because we have the Word of God and it is complete and whole and everything we need. To pull anything more from Christ's atonement and say it will be even more complete later on is inconsistent. One can't receive salvation but not actually have it now. It's impossible. To receive salvation is to place faith in Christ alone and one can't receive salvation without attaining the Holy Spirit. If you have the Holy Spirit, you're destined for eternal life and the opposite is also true, if you don't have the Holy Spirit, there is no life in the person (John 3:3,5-6). What Christ did on the cross was complete both now and forever. There isn't an already/not yet for some people, that is not Biblical. That is an idea from some guy who has passed this concept around and has gained traction because it's appealing to man, but it's just not Scriptural. It's twisting the Gospel into something it's not. The reconciliation to God every single person to have ever existed would be considered a prophecy because it's future-tense and has not occurred yet.(Ephesians 2:19-22)
It is not seen in Revelation and the reason this concept is so dangerous is because it says in the very last chapter of Revelation extremely clearly (Revelation 22:18) "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book." That's a very serious thing. The plagues are during the Great Tribulation (which is another of God's graces and mercy toward the unsaved, a severe grace, but a final last chance to repent and turn to Him). Christian Universalism is something added that is NOT in the book of Revelation, I've read it many times and do not see even a slight nod to it- only the opposite.
The hope you spoke of is not the living hope of Jesus- its the hope that all men will be reconciled to the Father. It sounds correct, but it's incorrectly placed hope. Our hope is in Christ and Christ alone. (Ephesians 2:11-18) It's only because of Christ we are able to be reconciled to the Father. Christ is our living hope- not our hope of the reconciliation of all people who have ever existed to God in the very end. The only way to be reconciled to God is through Christ. Christ did not save every single person or everyone would have the Holy Spirit and since everyone does not have the Holy Sprit we know that not every single person to exist can actually be saved because if they were actually saved they would have that promised deposit of inheritance the Holy Spirit. (John 3:3,5-6)
So true
God is always willing to forgive, but the question is, can continued hardened love of sin lead us to the place where we can no longer repent and receive this forgiveness. Can we come to the point where we love our sin so much that we put ourselves out of reach of God's love.
Is it possible that at judgement, God will literally burn the sin out of everyone? It may be that some people are so full of evil that the fires of judgement will simply annihilate them. While for believers and perhaps some others, the fire may burn but Christ’s blood will still heal and restore.
I believe so. Paul warns about this
For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.
Hebrews 12:17 ESV
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Romans 9:18 ESV
The good news I think is that God can also soften a hardened heart if we return to Him and repent.
I think God intentionally left the universal reconciliation as possible in the bible but not certain. Whether universalism is true or not the choice of ways is before you, strive to enter in at the straight gate.
Why do most Christians insist on limiting God's Grace?
the last enemy is death and death goes in the lake of fire before the wicked sinners so the human sinners are not enemies in gods mind - no they are enemies of god in their fallen sinner minds - after a period in the purifying lake of fire they are no longer enemies of god in their mind anymore and will call upon jesus for salvation amen . eonious is not everlasting it is a period of time - Jonah was in the belly of the whale eonius time - 3 days - not everlasting . god is love and love always wins love overcomes all things - jesus love on the cross overcomes all things amen
ONE PROBLEM. THOSE WHO CANT GO BACK, THAT ONCE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT AND APOSTASY BECOMES THEIR LIFE. THEY ARE ABOMINATIONS..LIKE ME. THERE IS AN UNPARDONABLE SIN. IT ACTUALLY MAKES YOU A NARCISSIST. NO ELIGIBILITY FOR REPENTANCE, IF I WANTED TO, AND I DO, I COULDN'T. FOR I DON'T RECOGNIZE MY SINS ANYMORE,, NO GUILT, NO CONVICTION. NO LOVE. IT'S REPROBATE, THEREFORE I HAVE COMMITTED THE UNPARDONABLE SIN, AND I NOW SEE WHY GOD HATED ESAU..I HATE ME TOO.. EVERYDAY IT'S A THOUGHT CLOSER TO PULLING THE TRIGGER, AND JUST GETTING OUT AND INTO THE PUNISHING.
SIR..WITH THE UTMOST RESPECT, I WOULD WANT TO ASK ABOUT, I WAS WALKING WITH GOD AND FOR 3 YEARS I NEVER FELT SO MUCH HUMILITY, AND LOVE, SO I THOUGHT I WAS SAVED YEARS AGO, BUT I WASN'T. THIS TIME AROUND, I GOT IT. IT WAS HIS WILL. THE SPIRIT CAN'T RESIST A HUMBLE CONTRITE HEART AND SO OUR WALK BEGAN. THEN STRONG CONVICTION STARTED TO COME, AND I CONFORMED TO CHRIST HERE, AND THERE, BUT AS TIME WENT ON I FELL, AND I DID NOT GET BACK UP. EVENTUALLY, I WAS A FULL BLOWN NARCACIST IT TOOK A GOOD 2 YEARS. I NOW AM IN A STATE OF A ZOMBIE. SELFISH, NOE FEAR OF GOD. I CAN'T PRAY. I'VE TRIED. I CAN'T "FEEL" NOT LOVE, NOT WHAT THE LORD AND SAVIOUR THAT GOD HAS SENT TO TAKE ON OUR SINS AND TEACH US THE WAY. SO I'M A DISTRAUGHT UNABLE TO WORSHIP, HAVE FAITH, OR RECOGNIZE SINS. I HAVE BLASPHEMED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE..TH TH THE UNPAARDONABLE SIN. I WOULD REPENT TODAY IF I AS ABLE TO BE ENLIGHTENED AGAIN, BUT AS YOU KNOW IN THE BOOK OF HEBREWS, THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE RENEWED TO REPENTANCE...I HAVE NO HEART. WHERE AT ONE TIME I LOOKED AT MY SIN OVER 34 YEARS, AND WHAT HE DID FOR ME. AND NOT FOR ME, BUT FOR ALL, AND WHAT IS HITLER COMPARED TO ME, WHO KNEW THE TRUTH AND FELL AWAY. A COWARD. "GOD HATED ESAU" I AM HATED BY GOD. IT'S TERRIBLE. WHEN THE SPIRIT LEFT, EVEN THE EVIL ME BEFORE, HAD, A PERSONALITY. TO MAKE A KID HAPPY IF HE WAS SICK, OR VISIT PEOPLE THAT WERE LOCKED UP, GIVE GOOD GIFTS (EVEN IF I STOLE EM) SO I'M REPROBATE NO DOUBT. JUST LIKE PETER SAID, THE LATTER IS WORSW THAN THE BEGINNING. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IF I HAD NEVER KNOW RIGHTEOUSNESS THAN TO KNOW IT, AND LEAVE IT, BECOMING ENTANGLED IN SIN ALL OVER AGAIN. LIKE A DOG THAT RETURNS TO HIS VOMIT OR THE SOW THAT RETURNS TO THE...YOU GET IT. I, AM WORSE THAN HITLER, YOU SEE??? I CANNOT REPENT AFTER APOSTACY AND NO HEART, NO FEAR, NO REMEMBERANCE OF WHAT WAS GOOD, BUT BACK BEFORE I WAS WALKING AND TALKING, LIKE A CHILD, AT A TIME THAT WAS THE EPICENTER OF MY JOY. I'M IN HELL WAITING FOR HELL :(
Hey brother, praying for you. Any update your willing to give on how things are going? I find myself un similar shoes as you were in while writing this comment. 1.5 years was amazing..spirit filled and undeniable but for the past 6 months...I've grown consistently colder, confused...feeling abandoned and hopeless. It is such a terrible feeling to feel this way. I pray things turned around for you and pray you can give me some hope that things will for me also. Lord bless you
Hey JesusFreak! I can empathize with what you’re talking about, because I’ve felt much the same way. What I’ll encourage you to do is examine a pattern in scripture. When the Israelites were liberated by God in Egypt, they were immediately freed from their slavery and lead through the sea (baptism). This incredible time was immediately followed by a long period of tribulation in the desert. Similarly, after Jesus was baptized and the spirit descended on Him, He was immediately lead into a period of forty days in the desert being tempted by the devil.
So, oftentimes in the Bible, the baptism (time of being freed from the slavery of our sin; filled with the spirit of God) is often immediately followed by a spiritual desert. While you’re in that desert, it’s really important that you eat your spiritual bread (manna) daily. While Jesus was in the desert, he defended himself against the temptation of the devil by using specific verses from scripture. Read your Bible and read it daily. Yesterday’s bread is not going to be enough to sustain you. Pray every day and turn away from sin whenever you perceive it in your own life.
Paul teaches us that periods of tribulation are used by God to create a faith which is more valuable than silver or gold. You can either let this time of spiritual dryness make you fall away from God, or you can let God use this time to produce a faith in you which is more real than before. I believe that God is going to finish this good work that he has started in you and I’ll pray for you.
Also, how could God command that we forgive our enemies and yet God punishes his enemies eternally with conscious suffering. It seems as if God requires us to forgive 70 x 7 and prey for our enemies and treat our enemies mercifully and yet he does not do the same.
They've conjured up a god that does not practice what He preaches! It's crazy when you actually think about such a proposition.
Christ gave His life for his bride , the church only.
You are aware that that's false right Christ gave his life for everyone.
Um someone apparently hacked my account because I never posted I wish this was true.
I guess I'm going to have to deleat my account.
So I deleated that comment.
"And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, .... ...... And the dead were judged according to their works.....
.......And they were judged, each one according to his work.
..........This is the second death.
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20.12-15)
The second death (according to scripture) “is” the destruction of “death” itself, and along with death, the destruction of “the” place of punishment “Hades”. And “if” anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life ? Since Everyone’s name was written in the book from the foundation of the earth, then if anyone’s name was not written in the book, implies that they were not born. Plus, the lake of fire that comes down from heaven will be a Glorious purification fire, that will be a Blessing to All of us 😊
@@Ricksworld1962 HUH????
Tiger b4woods
It makes sense once one understands that everyone who ever lived will be judged at the return of Christ, and immediately go to either the kingdom of heaven for reward, or to hades for correction. Then at the conclusion of the 1000 years, scripture stated that those removed from hades, and released from death, will at that point become in a better moral state
@@Ricksworld1962 where does it say the wicked will be released back into the kingdom?
Tiger b4woods
Everyone who ever lives will be judged and sent to either reward in the kingdom, or to correction in hades, immediately at the start of the 1000 years. Then, Revelation 20::7-15 describe the conclusion of the 1000 years, and verse 13 says all those in hades will be released and judged (again). Back to verses 4-5 it says those of the first resurrection (the ones who are rewarded) occur at the start of the 1000 years, and it says the rest of us come alive (this word in Greek is defined as “in a better moral state”) but not until the end of the 1000 years. The fire of verses 9-10 is the purifying fire upon all people (remember Everyone at that point will be spirits. No bodies of flesh)
I'm at 8 minutes and there is no mention of the greek!
the greek text leads to universalism or annihilation better than the English..
Nerosii in Hebrew it seems king of Tyre is actually Adam as well
General Lee interesting ..
you'll have to link me to more info
I also seem to keep glossing over..
it literaly says Jesus was Crucified at "the place of the skull"
between two criminals..
i have come to understand the whole bible is likely meant to be parabolic..
someone said the bible mentions it is many times..But I'll need to find those verses..
I know it says the bible is full of "dark sayings"..
even revelation suggests the crucifixion is symbolic
Revelation 11:8. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street
of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,
where also our Lord was crucified.
What? Are you saying that the interpreted Bible is different then the original one?
Then we all can start to ask our self what the heck we are reading.
@@grimlund I would say that it's normal for language to change
And yes, you should..
As the Bible says, test the spirits :p
@@grimlund I will say though, the English is a beautiful itteration
There are lots of neat Pair'o'bulls lol metaphores..
But it's definitely something everyone should do, search the original meaning..
"Study to show yourself approved"
John 1:12
To all those believing this, and especially those teaching it, you MUST repent. Sin is infinitely disgusting to God. Please see this. If you can’t, then you’re not seeing with the eyes of God. I’m begging you, repent, recant to those you’ve mislead, and turn back to Jesus before it’s too late. God is NOT infinite love. He is also infinite wrath, holiness, hate for sin.
Followers of this doctrine, it’s not too late for you.
So if I sin against a infinite God and deserve infinite punishment then if I do good towards God I deserve eternal rewards. That would be a big dilemma. And it would be unjust to send someone to hell for eternity and tell others they cant earn eternal life
Spirits in Hades/not Everlasting Hell..Lake of Fire...Tentmaker777'''
I wish this were true.
1 Timothy 4:10 says God is the Savior of unbelievers AND believers.
Kami if you haven't learned by now if it's it's true, it most definitely is true!
Romans 8:20-21 (NET)
20 For the creation was subjected to futility - not willingly but because of God who subjected it - in hope
21 that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of decay into the glorious freedom of God’s children.
The Lamb slained before the foundation of the world, Jesus, God incarnated, who died while humanity was still in "sin" to reconciled ALL to Himself; therefore Jesus has ramsomed humanity from the slavery of Satan... " Is done, is finished" He said dying on the Cross... in order that Salvation was fulfilled ... and even after death that ramson will free "spirit in prison" ... until all creation including the fallen Angels will bow down to salvation and be restored to his glory.
Where does the Bible talk about saving fallen angels?
@@incorectulpolitic obviousely, like salvation after death it is not taught in the Bible, so restoration of fallen angels it is not taught, however if God shall restore all creation to Himself, to me it implies that even the fallen angels shall be restored. 😊
Dante's Inferno has done a world of damage in art, in philosophy, in Bible exegesis, etc. and also in today's lieterature. This fiction is just that. God will save all. He said He would. The worst words: Abandon hope all ye who enter here. What a dreadful account of hell. Yet I Cor. 13 says that there are three everlasting qualities: faith, hope and love.
Hell is the absence and rejection of God.St.Paul says that the love of God can never be separated from us,nothing can ever change that.This love of a God is our hope,as if you want to say God has a weakness it’s his love for us,and his complete inability to separate himself from us ever.So if he can’t separate himself from us,it eliminates the idea of hell and Gods separation.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38,39
God is everywhere, hell can't be separation from God.
Salvation is more in line with living the Kingdom of God (LOVE) now in this present age. In the next it is more about Restoration of ALL creation. And yes there will be TRUTH 'S refining fire , but it's love based rather than vengeful. The judgement as mentioned in the Nicean Creed, is the Christ in ALL revealing our folly of never having followed the WAY of Jesus wholeheartedly in this life. But it will end! God is sovereign and He does not lose "one sheep" to everlasting torment as our Calvinistic brethren would have us to believe. Thank God Christianity is finally shaking of this FEAR promoting motivation in embracing Jesus as saviour, a human centred interpretation of the Bible. A thousand year interpretation that has crippled the real Gospel, it's bias so hard to shake off. Recommendation for those who within their "gut" (Christ within)always were uneasy with a God punishing and tormenting for all eternity, for those who "fail to see the light" in this short time span of ours. Ex Protestant pastor now Orthodox Bradley Jerzak' s "A more CHRISTLIKE God." And " A more CHRISTLIKE WORD." Brilliant and so liberating to love God even more! Hallelujah!❤️
Please believe this is a serious question: Is evil different from sin? Are some people - like Hitler, perhaps - demons? Genesis 3:15 implies that Eve has offspring and so does the serpent.
+Molly Griffith Hitler seems to be the pinup boy for Christians when it comes to the personification of evil. While I have no particular fondness for the character, I think you'll find if you investigate that the stories you've heard are mostly bunk. Is it evil to spread malicious gossip (innocently)? The Bible I think is pretty clear on this point. So beware of your own judgment there sister.
+Molly Griffith Propaganda
Yes, I've been wondering the same thing. Thanks for this question and for your comments above.
Can you guys please pray for me to be saved? I lost my faith in Christ, became hard in heart and don't want to go to hell forever. 😭😱
I know the feeling, but asking God to save you will not help because He ALREADY saved you. He doesn't need to do it again. Jesus died once for all your sins. He will not lose you. He already made you alive in Christ. It's just fear lying to you. Jesus loves you and He's got you. Just repeat that to yourself.
You will only be saved when you stop sinning. The evidence of salvation is sanctification. Once saved, we sin no more.
"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." 1 John 3:6
Don't listen to heretics like the one in this videos. If you want to find the truth, check the channel @biblestudy101 - if you seek, you shall find.
I wish these guys would just use scripture to try and prove their point rather than just "wondering" if it's possible.
Jesus warned us that there will be many false teachers among us, as well as false prophets! Put God first in everything you do because death can come at any time! To die without making peace with God is the worse thing that can happen to anyone! Because the next time your eyes be open if you are dead, you will find yourself at the judgement seat of God! We all have to stand before God oneday!
V
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
v
Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
v
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
even blasphemy against the holy ghost will be forgiven i bet
Salvation is a free gift. We can either choose to receive it by repentance or reject it. Even those who preach and proclaim God's words are not excused.
Matthew 7:22: Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you, Away from me, you evildoers!'
+Cueball Doe What about the babies who never knew Christ?
I believe that everyone gets to an age of accountability when we have a conscious choice to make after receiving the Good News.
+MrShaiya96 It cannot get any simpler than these.
Bible says to flee from sexual immorality
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey-whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Cueball Doe Umm.. thats great. I was asking about actual babies, though. Who die before this age of accountability. Lets stay on task.What about them? Hell for them, then?
MrShaiya96 No. because they have not reached the age of accountability.
Justice is GOOD because it not only displays God's Righteousness forever, but it also gives consequences for sin so that these acts are not a mockery against God in eternity. God's justice makes sin/moral evil right in eternity.
Put God first in everything you do because death can come at any time! To die without making peace with God is the worse thing that can happen to anyone! Because the next time your eyes be open you will find yourself at the judgement seat of God! We all have to stand before God oneday!
V
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
v
2Co 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
v
Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
v
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Was the crucifixion for Christians only? Or was it for the whole world? Questions Calvinists don't want to understand.
+dancena2 i'm not a Calvinist but a theostiacist... but five point Calvinism DOES answer this... and they argue that it is only effective to those who get adopted in Christ.
Degrees of Punishment..
roberta tavola WE have an Accuser Satan who is on a Rantan! Especially Now...
Lets eat, drink and be merry then.
I'm with you...struggling how this all works out for the rapists and murderers, why live a righteous life, if there is no punishment, that doesnt seem right
@@abominable_swoleman3528 I agree. Even though we all sin (Rom 3:23, 1 John 1:18)
(1 John 1:8) ,there are also plenty of texts in the Bible that "friendship" with sin should not be the lifestyle of a believer in Christ. (1 John 3:8-9 (1 Cor 6:9-10)
The sins you mentionen are very severe, and I do believe theres a difference between gravity of sins.
I think theres a balance we need to have in mind, which can be found in 1 John chapter 1 and chapter 3.
The truth is nothing is now loss to be saved from this is true since ad seventy all things are new now you can not be saved if there is no more sin and death to be save from God now is all. In all from Joshua willis with love for you all
So then, how does one evangelize?
+Molly Griffith
The short version:
"You and everyone through history is going to heaven, that is the happy and uplifting truth! But, please, avoid all evil doing! And, if you feel like it, pray every day and try to know God like He really is! To do that the best way is to read about Jesus Christ and slowly(/or fast) be able to understand that He is The Answer!"
Molly Griffith The Gospel isn't "believe in Jesus or you born in hell forever!", The Gospel is "You have been saved already. It is finished." Go from there.
Jesus has died for you and shown the way to live as a _new humanity_ as he did. You're welcome to become a part of this family of God :)
People, I did not cross over born of the Spirit because of my health, I crossed over because I wanted to follow Jesus. I am now a Spiritual man living a righteous life, not being carnal minded. The things I use to love I now hate, and the things I hated I now love. My music is Christian. My movies is Christian. I don't go nightclubs, only church etc. I no longer fornicate, I am married. I follow the commandment, Love thy neighbour as thyself. I am now a full pleage Christian. If you are willing to read all scripture you will get my point.
V
Jhn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good work.
Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Colin Murphy I'm curious, have you obeyed Acts 2:38 being water and Spirit baptized???
Christ came to save the elect. Those who had been given to Him by the Father. John 17!
The Father loves the Son, and has given ALL THINGS into his hand. John 3:35
1 Corinthians ch. 15 we see the Apostle Paul write that ALL THINGS except God (meaning all things of the created order) will be in subjection to God... you're right, Christ came to save the elect. God has elected all to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4 and 4:10, Luke 3:6, and so many more verses speaking of the beautiful GOOD NEWS that Jesus is the SAVIOR OF THE WORLD... not just the token members of each nation but the whole world.
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself ALL THINGS, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1:19-20
Zachariah
What bible version is that bro? Thanks.
Election/chosen never meant salvation in the Old Testament, so why would it be any different in the new testament. God chose Israel, but not everyone who was from Israel was a child of Abraham. In all truth, God made humanity in his image, so in a sense, we all are chosen.
This is extremely dangerous! Heaven is real and hell is real too!
Very few universal christians deny tge existence of hell, non deny the existence of heaven.
I don't believe in hell where Satan is burning people with a pitchfork. Hell is a place of sleep, I've done my research in Hebrew language.
I believe there will be judgement day, sinners who have not been converted will PERISH!
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Num 21:6-9 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
A DIRECT APPLICATION REGARDING NUM 21:9-6.
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Jhn 3:14-21 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to CONDEMN the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not CONDEMNED: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the CONDEMNATION, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that PERISH foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
2Co 2:15-17 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that PERISH:
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that PERISH; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Holy Bible Jesus the word made flesh and dwelt among us.
the main false evangelical position of hell is based on their understanding of what jesus is saying to the unbelieving jews in Mathew - that for not believing in him they will go to gehhena which is not hell as the church believe. gehhena is a place in Jerusalem where god punished and slew rebellious jews - the jews knew this - the translators do not - or do they - and called it hell - not gehhena a place like london . so the church says well jesus taught on hell so it must be true - but he did not - he taught the jews about gods wrath on them for not beliving in jesus as son of god messiah - which happened in ad70 Jerusalem was destroyed a million jews killed and the rest scattered abroad for 2000 years.
The term "God-Man" is a theological, and erroneous description not found with any basis in Scripture, unless twisted by holding to the unbiblical, Constantinian-forced sophistry of a contentious, Emperor mandated council in Nicea (325) and subsequently in Constantinople (381) called 'trinity'. It is completely unbiblical to believe that there is a "separate person in the Godhead called the "Holy Spirit". The personal pronouns associated wit "holy spirit" are not in the original Greek copies. 1 Cor. 15:45 what did Jesus, the "last Adam" become? "...The Lord is the spirit..." (2 Cor. 3:17). "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6. "the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but YE KNOW HIM; for HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, and SHALL BE IN YOU." - John 14:17. See also Deut. 6:4 and Isa. 45: 5-7, "I am the Lord, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.
A JURIDICAL presupposition of God's salvific purpose in Christ will also lead to a misinformed understanding of why Jesus was sent (remember, Jesus was born and raised before He was sent). He came to save us FROM OUR ENEMIES...sin, death and corruption. He referred to Himself as a "physician". Salvation is restoration to wholeness. He did not come to "judge". His words.
This is my understanding after nearly 50 years since my apprehension by the grace of God in Christ... regeneration and renewing of the holy Spirit. The actuation of the reality of what Jesus perfectly accomplished 2000+ years ago. He came "to save sinners". "All have sinned." As in Adam, all died...so in Christ ALL shall be made alive". Jesus said "I am come that you might have LIFE...". Yes, Universal Salvation / Reconciliation is truth.
Again, my prayer is to be corrected BY THE LORD where I err... and that He will bless what I share that is in accord with His word and Will.
So .... we have the double sided coin - predestination and universalism. Both totally disregard human free will. Why did God give us free will, only to say "oh sorry, you end up having to love me anyway". Heaven would not be heaven for those people. C S Lewis's master/mentor George MacDonald was a universalist. C S Lewis disagreed with him on this point. And if you read C S Lewis's objections, he makes sense, and he has a far greater mind than most of us! It is such a complex issue. We just look at it like - Jesus is such a nice guy, so God is a nice guy too, and we have this idea that a nice guy couldn't stand people going to hell. They disregard the new creation, justice, free will, and scripture based on this 'nice guy' theory. Life here is a process - of journey towards God, or away from God. The bibles focus is on the new creation. The first one is Eden, which was marred by sin, and at the end of the story we see a new heaven and new earth. Jesus, in his death and resurrection, invites us to become a part of that! We have to die, to become part of it, and those who freely say no, are not able to as their STATE of being has not changed. They would not delight in God's presence, they would not enjoy heaven or new earth, as they are not in sync with it! It's very hard to explain, but it's more about that than heaven and hell. It's not about 'what's fair' or God's a big meanie, it's about this free will person, who's life is created from all of their choices, that moves them into a position to receive or reject Christ, and they BECOME their choices in a way. God saves us from ourselves and from that state. We don't have to remain in that state, but many do not see that they are in need of rescue.
+Tracy Grant, some children refuse to obey and love their parents, yet the children remain children and the parents remain parents. Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father", not "our creator", "our judge", "our magic genie". God called Jesus "beloved son", and we are called "children of God". The wages of sins is death, not hell. (Anytime Jesus talked about hell, he was talking TO the Jews - the chosen - the called - those who thought they were "in".) God did not consult with Adam and Eve as to whether they wanted him to send a redeemer . . . God just said he would. Hell was created for the devil and his angels - if God is all-knowing (which the Bible says he is), then he wouldn't create a place from the foundation of the world and not know who would end up there. The Bible says we can entertain angels unaware - we can also probably entertain demons unaware. Two categories, two families, two destinies - Gen. 3:15 and Gen. 6. All of God's children WILL be saved. Those who are not his children will perish in the lake of fire. Predestination and universalism can co-exist. (I suppose I may be a partial universalist since I don't believe Satan will be redeemed - I may be wrong there, though, too.
+Molly Griffith aaanddd here we go around the mulberry bush....:) ok. Can you show me in scripture where it calls all human beings 'children of God'? God might be our creator, but does he only become our parent when we become his sons? Sons and heirs..... when we call him Abba father.... is it because our hearts can at last sigh that we have recognised we have been in a foreign land, and now we have come home? I might be wrong - but God seems in scripture to only call the Israelites his sons.... and his children. I don't remember hearing him calling the Caananites his children or sons. Doesn't not having relationship preclude that? I agree that all of God's children will be saved, and that those who are not his children will not be. As I don't believe in either the traditional predestination or universalism, but free will choice on the part of the individual, i think each person is responsible for the choices they make in this life. God honours that choice.
Maybe in the end God is so wonderful and irresistible that every single person will come into heaven by choice
+Bryce Aguirre Lovely thought. I can't quite reconcile that with Jesus words about his beloved children. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets, and stone those who are sent unto you; how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings-and you would not!" Matthew 23:37... The bible from beginning to end is about choice. choose life!!!! as opposed to what?
+Tracy Grant but even that verse. ... Jesus is still willing to gather them in like a mother hen. his patience is great. his grace is stronger than death.
lets pray to God,what he meant with eternal judgement.
Hetkanookanders, do you mean correction (punishment) that lasts forever (eternal)?
Jesus spoke more about heel then he did heaven. he who believes is not condemned but he who believes not is condemned already.
Truth
READ THS WHOLE CHAPTER THERE IS NO CHERRY PICKING, THAT'S SOMETHING A UNIVERSALIST CAN NEVER DO! THESE VERSES CUTS OUT UNIVERSALISM!
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1Jo 3:1-24 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in DEATH.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
OperationReapSinners777 I fail to see how this undercuts universalism. We do not deny punishment or judgment.
@@iProPipe BELIEVE JESUS WHEN HE SPEAKS! Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US THE PARABLE OF THE TARES OF THE FIELD.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
Interesting ideologies, but one would have to throw away all the verses that speaks about those whose names are not written in the Lambs book of life, we would have to get rid of Lazarus and the Rich man who went to hell, we would have to get rid of scriptures that say, "wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many find it and narrow is the gate that leads to life and few that find it".... I understand the theory this person has, but would have disregard much of the scriptures that warn about hell.
shanestjohn1
From a proper Biblical eschatological standpoint, one can understand each of your stumbling blocks sir. Scripturally, all of those who die before the return of Christ, are asleep. At His coming, All will be awakened and separated. The righteous enter through the narrow gate to reward with Christ. All others enter through the broad gate to “Hades”. They remain for the age lasting (1000 years), at the conclusion of which “All” those in Hades are to be released, and scripture states (in the Greek), Will at that point, come alive in a better moral state.
The story of Lazarus and the Rich man, is “The” future judgment of Christ. Just as the book of revelation is future events. In the story it does not state that the rich man will never cross over. Notice that the rich man “first” is selfish, desiring his tongue be cooled by the poor man, but very quickly turns to wanting to save others. This is Gods way of showing us that those in Hades will be repenting.
The Lambs book of life was written before the Adam. All who will ever live, were written in this book. All were given a clean slate, with none pre appointed to the wrath of God.
Where are the references you are coming up with? How can Lazarus be the future judgement when he asks Christ to send someone back from the dead that his family does not come there also? I would like to hear how you get your information from scripture. It is quite possible that the Lambs book of life was written before the creation of man as God would already know who would be saved and who would not.
shanestjohn1
In my analogy of scriptural Eschatology, Jesus and/or Paul show us that All of the dead are asleep.
Matthew 27:52
Acts 7:60
Acts 13:36
1 Corinthians 15:6
1 Corinthians 15:18
1 Corinthians 15:20
1 Thessalonians 4:13
1 Thessalonians 4:14
1 Thessalonians 4:15
1 Thessalonians 4:16
2 Peter 3:4
Other scriptures show that upon His return, All of the dead will be awakened, and at the same moment, All of those that were living, will All be judged. It is not until at That future moment, that anyone enters the kingdom of heaven for reward, or hades for punishment.
At the moment that the rich man asks Abraham to send someone to warn his brothers, he does not know that everyone who ever lived is has already died, and they themselves (individually) stand before God for their own judgment.
Revelation 13 and 17 both describe the book of life having been written before the foundation of the earth. I have tested the possibilities of how to interpret this, in alignment with other scriptures. Scripture describes our God as loving and fair, among other merciful attributes. If at the point that He wrote the book of life, He already knew who would not make the proper choices (and according to popular thought, be spending eternity in torment) then logically, a Truly loving God would not have included them in this book, for He would have known that an infinite duration of correction, for a short lifetime of wrong choices here on earth, is certainly not just, or fair.
At the point that He wrote the book, is the point where the verse that says “we were not appointed to the wrath of God” , is saying that we were All given a clean slate, to make our own choices in life, which will determine at the judgment of Christ, whether we will be told “well done my faithful servant”, or told I don’t know you (yet).
By the way:
In the Greek, Matthew 25:46, when analyzed in the Greek, should say “age lasting correction”, not ever lasting punishment. And the root word for the word translated to say “punishment”, is Pruning.
Brother Shane,
We shouldn’t get rid of any scriptures. We should take all of the apparent contradictions, and analyze how they could possibly create a contradiction.
I use this online Greek inter linear translation scripture4all.org , and use the Strong’s concordance number (ex:G166) to test each word for its definition, and how it is used in every verse the word is found.
The word (G166) for example, has been translated to “ever lasting” and “eternal”. Upon close inspection, the only proper translation should be “age” lasting. And when analyzing every verse where this word is found, it is found to always be referring to the next age, which begins at the return of Christ, and concludes when Jesus returns All power and authority to the Father, at the conclusion of the 1000 years.
Blaa Blaa Blaa. A twisted person can't get to a point but. They try to leave a foggy thinking
Because you don't understand, doesn't mean he can't get to a point.
Yeshua said of Judas, "It would have been better had he not been born". He also said that it were better for someone to have a millstone tied around their neck and thrown in the sea than to cause someone to sin. Parry wants to paint a different picture of the nature of God. But his view on God's nature is wrong. Also, he speaks favorably of Calvinists. John Calvin was a murderer when he had Michael Servetus burned at the stake. And you want to believe that Calvin was a man of God? God will not save everyone. If that were true, man would have no free will. I would rather be annihilated than to know that I have no free will.
Well if Calvin was a murderer, then so was Moses, David, and Paul who consented to the martyrdom of Steven, Sampson, etc. - all guilty of what you condemn Calvin for.
He doesn't even know the arguments against his false doctrine. No where does he ever address the word "salvation" if there is no opposite condition in eternity.
Revelation 22:18-19. Galatians 1:8-9. If you keep scripture in context, Universalism is exposed for the lie it is. Taking scripture out of context and making it say what it doesn't, leads to false doctrine. Repent and don't end up like the false teachers in the book of Jude, and 2 Peter 2. You cannot create your own way to spend eternity with God (which Universalism does).
+kyaaron39 What about the babies who never knew Christ?
Do babies have the mental capacity to be able to understand and believe the gospel before they die?
+kyaaron39 I am sure they do not. But you are the one using the bible as your reference point. Does the bible specifically say something about babies as an exception? If it does not, you have to explain it away, or say that the bible 'implies' that babies are saved. However, by that logic, anyone could make the same argument for the salvation of unbelievers who have come to the faulty conclusion that god is not real, or that jesus is not god. Please respond. I'd love your input.
2 Samuel 12:22-23. King David believes he will see his baby again. David's response indicates that those who cannot believe are safe in the Lord. He believed he would see his baby again in heaven, though he could not bring him back. This logic does not apply to people who are capable of believing the gospel, or don't believe in God. God holds people accountable to believing He exits by creation alone in Romans 1:20. God looks at your heart to see how you react to the light given to you about creation and sends missionaries or Christians across your path to accept the gospel.
In 2 Samuel, David is sure his children are safe, but this is merely is hope. He feels he is absolutely certain, and he is probably right. The babies are saved, and waiting for him. But again, this is opinion. The sentence did not have “Thus says the Lord” attached before it, so it was not God speaking about the babies’ fate, but merely David stating what he felt absolutely confident of. No more, no less.
In Romans, this verse is obviously misinterpreted by so many Christians, since there ARE sincere atheists who honestly do not believe in God. Its not that they believe and are lying about it. No, they do not believe. And if you say they do, you are making a psychological statement that you cannot prove outside of what you think you read in the bible. We are not in other people’s heads, nor are we trained professionals. So we cannot say what others believe and call them liars when they say openly what they believe… So this quote is badly represented by Christians who try to interpret it as such. If anything, this verse says that the creation of the universe and everything else in it will at BEST give people a feeling as though there is something greater out there, something bigger than themselves, something “more”. And most atheists generally do have this feeling, with the moral law written on their hearts, and their sense of awe when they stare out at the vast, large universe. Mind you, they think it is only the universe that gives them this awe, but anyways. Likewise, native people living in tribes and away from civilization in a jungle or on an uncharted island, with no conception of God or Jesus and don’t even know what an atheist is, these indigenous people still find themselves usually ‘worshiping’ nature in some way, either worshiping plants or rock statues, or making up their own anthropomorphic-type deities to explain why the sky gives them rain and water, and why the land gives them food and disease. They are, in a way, still worshiping God. They just do not know it is God, and conceive it as something else. It is sort of placebo effect of Romans 1.
we all wish this heresy was true... but God is a Holy God and will glorify Himself through Justice against wickedness as well as grace/mercy to those who get adopted.
The law of identity means something in eternity. Friends verses enemies. God has enemies (although none are His equal). Sheep and goats means something... not everyone ends up as a sheep. Adopted out of disobedient slaves means something. Not everyone gets adopted. Wheat vs tares... salvation itself means something. It is NOT inevitable fate that everyone attains...or eventually reaches... Salvation is a gift that is contrasted with those who do NOT receive the gift of salvation. It is NOT just inevitable fate that we all reach... that is universal nonsense.
If everyone is somehow "saved" then the word saved loses its meaning. There is nothing REAL in eternity to actually be saved from (with UR). No opposite condition of non-saved in eternity. It's just inevitable fate. Sorry, but God is not the
god of confusion... satan is. And satan is the author of the universalism deception. We are saved from something REAL in eternity. Eternal separation from the new heaven and new earth and logical unequal punishment (based on evil deeds/works). It is biblical to have eternal judgment. We might wish everyone could end up in heaven... but that would NOT work as a logical deterrent against future evil in eternity. The fear of consequences that are real and eternal is only one small part of it. The quality of relationship that comes from particular restoration and forgiveness is the bigger part.
You can't have that with everyone having the inevitable fate of ending up in heaven. Omni-forgiveness is a blasphemy against the Holy Cross of Jesus Christ. Think about it deeply. Ask God to show you. Pray and fast about it... and God will show you and deliver you from this universalism heresy (a word I don't use lightly). Universal Fatherhood is not a heresy..
but it IS very bad theology... that leads to heresies like universalism.
Breckmin // did God create Satan? and their had to be a "Judas"...when Jesus was on the cross he said, My Father forgive them for they know NOT what they do. Then he said...It is finished. Religion says DO...Jesus says DONE.
Donna Bowman It is finished and Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Heresies never account for how eternal separation and perfect justice Maximizes God's glory.
Donna Bowman What you don't understand actually GLORIFIES God more than making the word salvation' completely meaningless. please read above on how inevitable fate is not salvation
Breckmin // so what does wicked mean to you??? Is it a 20 year old young man that was shot and killed instantly.....and yes, my son had a girlfriend of three years..(so you know what comes with that)...And after his murder...she rented a hotel room and while holding the teddy bear my son Jacob had given to her before his murder... she shot herself in the head. So my friend, again, what is Evil to you. Methuselah lived 969 years... then you have someone that live for 20 years... They both go before God and he says wait a minute you gave Methuselah 969 years and you only give me 20. I'll will waiting for ur reply anxiously.
I'm sorry for your loss. How many years ago was this?
Yes, some only live a few years....and others live over a 100 years. It's not fair... meaning it's not equal.
The law of unfairness deals with unequal circumstances for everybody... it has nothing to do with justice because God is justified in taking all of our lives at any time. Appealing to "being given equal chances" is something that does not exist in this universe.... so people often appeal to something (fairness) that does not exist in this universe (as it relates to equality).
Wicked is any sin which is stands in violation against the absolute Holiness of God. If a perfect holy angel wouldn't do it...then it's probably wickedness at some level. The only sex which is not wickedness is within marriage where the relationship can model the relationship of Jesus and His bride/the church.
wicked can be a thought... it can be one of a million things. Anything which does not glorify God/Jesus.
If one dies as an unbeliever or not a genuine believer, he will suffer torment in the outer darkness, a holding place, for an eternity-like time, as this person has no idea about the things of God.
At the appointed time he will be brought out of it to face the white throne judgement.
If his name was found in the book of life or Christ Grace and Mercy is in effect based on the deeds he had done accdg to the records on the books that will be opened, or he calls upon the name of the Lord, repents, and beg for His mercy, he will be saved. Otherwise, turning out to be arrogant (did I not prophesy? Blah blah) and accusing and cursing God of being unjust for letting him go through the torment in the outer darkness,, he will be thrown in the lake of fire to be totally destroyed and will cease to exist.
Eden then will be restored, and rebellion will be no more, as people learned from their refinement experience in the outer darkness, and seeing the smoke of destruction rising forever from afar as a reminder.
he is so wrong. he says there are scriptures but doesn't mention them. he says most Christians believe what he believes but that is a lie. and by believing what he believes he denies scriptures like: Matthew 25:46 says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” was Jesus lying here??
matthew 7 13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." was this exaggeration??
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." is john lying here? will no one be in this crowd? will the jewish children of the holocaust have to endure eternity with the prison guards who tortured them?
he twists scripture terribly and adds his own ideas and empty philosophy.
When Jesus says "eternal, it's not what man should view as, since Jesus was not merely a man.
In Romans Paul shares this thought that Christ affected ALL of humanity in a similar manner that Adam affected ALL of humanity; and that the same "all" that were corrupted in Adam were saved in Christ. Although this is not the popular teaching of Christian churches today, it is indeed clear in the scriptures.
"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for All men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for All men" Romans 5:18
... as if to say that Christ undid the fall of humanity
"For as in Adam All die, so also in Christ shall All be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:22
"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself." 2 Corinthians 5:19
"... One died for all, therefore all died."
2 Corinthians 5:14
.... When these verses use the word "All", do they not speak of all of humanity????
They indeed do speak of ALL of humanity.
According to these scriptures and many other ones, we were ALL included in Christ's life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension. :) blessings!
Bryce - adam's actions had consequences for all humanity but not all humanity is condemned so the all referring to adam is limited to this world and life not eternity in the same way as the all of Christ refers to those who respond to him in faith not every person. we know this because scripture clearly says that many are going to hell and that they are the majority (broad pat to destruction narrow road to eternal life for example). you are putting a lot of weight on the word all and not seeing that while the all of adam in temporary the all of Christ is conditional. you are simply making all to be every single person for eternity but then you deny the scriptures that promise eternal judgement. in your view the jewish children of auscwitz must endure eternity with hitler - this is not justice. this is a denial of the gospel which is that all are fallen and all need to repent and believe in the saviour. those alls are universal by the way. anything else - including this universal salvation view of robin - is a false and damning gospel.
+nuthajason street reading Romans 5 I don't see how anyone could think that the all of Christ is conditional. .. there are many verses that seem very much all inclusive to the whole of humanity. .. especially that one where it says God was reconciling "the world to Himself" .... or Romans 11:32 "
For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all."... even Ephesians 1.. it speaks of all kinds of wonderful things given us in Christ and then says " making knownfn to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ..." and what is this mystery? ... 10"as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth." is that not everything!? ... God so loved The World! ... maybe some will perish but the fact is that the case for rigid infernalism (people burning in hell for eternity) is not as strong as universalism in my opinion. ...I wouldn't consider myself a universalist but I don't consider it heresy either. ... we can agree to disagree though. It seems that you have more of a calvinist view right? I definitely respect that viewpoint for it is very founded in scripture but in the parables you are referring to I feel that there is more room for interpretation than what you are giving... the verses of Romans 3-6 and Ephesians 1-3 would be a better foundation to approach this subject I believe. I'm open to Re examining the scriptures and adjusting my views so I definitely have enjoyed this conversation for although I may disagree at some points with you, I see you do have valid knowledge of the scriptures.
*after reading Romans 5
bringing up HItler is a strawman. Robin Parry continuously just deals with very weak arguments.
"Bringing up Hitler is a strawman". Exactly! YOU are the people always bringing up Hitler. "If God will save everybody, then what about Hitler?".
so much isolationism in this heretical and evil theology. Demonic deceptions always have such.
Demonic? He believes in Jesus, Jesus died, Jesus rose again. He believes that God came down Jesus(God the man), the author of salvation, he just does not believe that hell is endless torture, he only believes in 1 John 2:2; just rejects the hateful Christian's beliefs. So how dare you accuse him of being demonic and unbiblical, if your a true Christian, you would not be making such accusations.
dancena2
the specific heresy of "universal reconciliation" is what is the result of seduction from unclean deceiving spirits who would take away from "what" the Sacrifice of Jesus dying on the Cross actually saves us FROM (and why wickedness against a Holy God has multiple dynamics in its consequences). I stand by what I said 100%. Universalism is NOT Evangelical at all. it is evil. It is demonic deception (piggybacked on the Christian's own self-deception)...and it denies "salvation" itself (having no opposite condition of non-salvation in eternity). It turns salvation into inevitable fate... rather than a special gift of mercy/grace.
It is a LIE plain and simple.
You should read "letting go of hell", Christ died for the world.
dancena2
you should use critical thinking to see that there are sheep and goats, wheat and tares, disobedient slaves and adopted children, those whom Jesus said "depart from Me, I never knew you" good soil and bad soil, friends and ENEMIES of God, etc.
you should use critical thinking to see clearly that if everyone is saved... then NO one is really saved because the English word "saved" can't be used... because there is nothing "real" to be saved from.
you should use critical thinking to see that there are "rewards" in heaven based on your works that you do once you are SAVED. If you go from hell to heaven... where are your good works done? In hell?
you should use logic to see that you are saved by grace through FAITH, then it needs to be done in this lifetime (like the writer of Hebrews alluded to in 9: 27).
you should repent from the deception you received from "letting go of hell" and start to understand the logic of eternal symmetry and how God's Righteousness and Holiness are displayed by God's justice against wickedness.
you should learn that you are saved by "grace" and not because God is somehow obligated to save you (or everybody)
Most important. You should fast and pray about this and ask God to show you the absolute truth about "salvation" and ask God to deliver you from universalism if it is a demonic deception. God does not withhold good gifts from His children who beseech Him with prayer and fasting. God will show you the truth about His Holiness...and the wickedness of sin.... and the necessity of grace which is particular and why.
Ask God to protect you from anything that is not from Him and from any demonic deception related to the afterlife. Ask your Heavenly Father to deliver you from lies in Jesus' Name and He will show you.
So your saying that some people have to go to hell, for our salvation?