5 Things You Didn't Know About The Alfa Romeo 164
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2021
- The #Alfa164 occupies a unique spot in the Milanese marque’s history. While it’s the last ever model #AlfaRomeo developed as an independent company, it is also the first designed on a platform shared with Fiat.
It can also be considered the first and, so far, the last, large Alfa saloon to achieve relative market success, selling just under 270.000 units over ten years. However, that was long ago, and now even the newest 164s are old enough to enjoy classic car status, with prices for the very best survivors gently rising. But are you sure you know it all about this seminal Alfa Romeo model? Here are five things you probably didn’t know about the Alfa 164.
Between 1988 and 1991, the Alfa 164 Turbo was equipped with the same turbo inline-four used in the Lancia Thema… Well, almost!
The “Type 4” platform shared with Fiat and Saab dictated a McPherson strut-type front suspension design, but, on the Alfa, the McPherson strut isn’t aligned with the wheel’s center, thus lowering its top mounts by around three centimeters.
The 164 was only ever sold as a four-door saloon, but that doesn’t mean alternatives weren’t considered. #Pininfarina made full-scale models of an elegant two-door coupé, a rather lovely station wagon, and a much less successful convertible, too.
Two Alfa 164 were transformed into high-speed fire trucks for use on the company’s proving ground, the Balocco test track.
The 164 had to be rebadged 168 on some Asian markets because of the number four’s negative connotation in the local culture.
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164 is pure art and true beauty. Should be treasured by Alfisti.
It is. At least here in Italy, the best 164s are cherished classics now.
I'm St Louis, MO, US, I owned 2, we had to wait until 90 as a 91 model. In the US. I had a 164 L. 3.0 5 speed and a 93 automatic.. I wish I waited for the 94 ls, 24 valve version, but were more costly to maintain.. faster yes, but $$$ to keep up. Still a beautiful classic Alfa sedan.. I'm saving up for a new Guilia..
I bought one new in 1991...and now I am going to buy another one 34 years later. They were amazing to drive, and with the grand touring elegance of the best of the 1900 series of Alfas.
An Alfisti from Hong Kong here ...
"164" sounds similar to "the road to death" in Chinese, thus in Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan "164" was rebadged as "168" (the road to prosperity)
When marketing was performed by clever people who were able to think !
I owned a 168 3.0 V6 24V Super in the UK that had been imported from Thailand
@@DashCamSerbia we had this with the FIAT Croma, Croma is a margarine you use to fry food in the kitchen.
The car sold very poorly in Holland
Skoda Karoq sounds like crock as in crock of sh1!
The A168 is a road I know well in the UK. I loved the 164 and 166 Alfas, both beauties.
No other car sumarizes Italy in the 90s like the Alfa 164. The World Cup, Berlusconi, Jovanotti, la Cicciolina...
The Italian ambassador!
I still remember seeing it for the first time, I was driving down the Autostrada to catch the Ancona ferry for Greece in my MGB, a wonderful warm September evening and I was driving with the top down in my MG when I was overtaken by something I first thought it was the reincarnation of a Disco Volante the famous Alfa's from the fifties, the red band of the tail lights and the smooth way the car was able to overtake me left me with my mouth wide open, WOW, what a super sexy car passed my old shake rattle 'n roll sports car. I did not even bother to try and catch up with it, I was too much surprised !
That's a cool memory, thank you for sharing it with me!
Fiero di averne posseduta una 2000 twin spark uno spettacolo di eleganza,di confort,e prestazioni ❤ancora oggi mi viene in sogno di tanto in tanto
One of the most beautiful 4door saloons ever made! Miles ahead of the (then...) competition, as far as road behavior, engines and elegance.
A current and future classic.
I have to agree :)
Have you ever heard of the Jaguar XJ SII?
@@gori277 I have driven them both the 3,0 166 and the s 3000 v6. Have you? How did it feel cornering and breaking simultaneously at both cars?
@@through_changes Mate, you started your sentence with “ One of the most beautiful 4 door saloons ever made!” that’s what I was contesting. I know taste is personal but I think the Series 2 XJ6 or XJ12 is probably the most beautiful saloon ever. Not going to compare dynamic performances between cars of different eras. I love (some) Alfas but I think the 164 is not very interesting looks wise also, like most Alfas 80’s onwards, the quality of the plastics and general finish was pretty disappointing. I’d take a sorted one with the Busso though but I’d take a well sorted XJ any day of the week before a 164. Safe travels.
@@gori277
Patrida...Jag and quality are mutually exclusive
ZHTO H ALFA ROMEO
ZHTO H ELLAS
MATE !!
Utterly beautiful,and the 166 that followed was stunning too.Its a shame we are buying less saloon cars these days...
Indeed. I really wish SUVs and crossovers never caught on, but sadly the majority of car buyers don't care about cars, they just want the image.
The 164 . Good coefficient of aerodynamic car in those years. The Pininfarina touch ...👍
Looking forward to this Matteo..
Beautiful car - it was always well reviewed by the UK motoring press at the time. Along with the Lancia Gamma coupe and Delta Integrale, a picture of this car was always on my wall when I was a design student.
A man of taste, that's for sure! :)
It’s a shame both the coupe and station wagon did not see their way to production - the station wagon model looks fantastic.
Another informative video.
I agree! Thank you!
164 design ages like a fine wine... The older it is the better it gets. What an amazing car.
I am proud to say I became an Alfa owner recently with the purchase of a 2.2 JTS Brera. My parents having Alfa 75 until 2006 and this youtube channel has been a big inspiration to become a proud Alfa owner. I love my Brera more than anything else. Keep up the great work!
I'm chuffed to learn that my videos have somehow inspired you into getting an Alfa, that's super cool! Congratulations!
@@Matteo_Licata Thank you!
Grande video io sono proprietario di un alfa 166 restyling 2.4 sono felicissimo
The late Mike Buckler of Gatwick Alfa built a 6 litre 164. He put an extra V6 in the back. It wasn't road legal but could scamper up a hill very quickly. I don't think the car still exists, but hope I'm wrong. I think it worked better than Mike dared to expect. I saw the car at one of the UK national Alfa days, but never saw it run. Edit: it was road legal if he drove it on the front engine only.
Always thought the 164 was very special - elegant, stylish and just beautiful. I was a young man then and nobody understood my love (being an Australian) Even now, it still looks fantastic to me
It does. Back then it really was a breath of fresh air for AlfaRomeo, and here in Italy it sold very well
Fantastic car. I think still better looking than it’s successor, the 166. Not many left in UK , I should imagine , although supposedly galvanised body some got scrapped due to heavy duty service costs later in life before getting recognised as a “classic” . Still set a standard today in road holding a ride quality in one package.
The Coupe and Station Wagon should have been produced! Most handsome!
You forgot one thing: the 164 has the best fwd system of any 20th c car, imho. Maybe the Williams-Renault Clio or an Acura, but those are hothatches. For a saloon, this is an incredible fwd car.
I was about to disagree then I see you said 20th century, so 1999 at latest. I would agree that hot hatches as you say were better even including the Alfa 145/146 and also the 916 range and 155. I think the 156 was better and also the 166, various Saabs and Volvos did a better job of fwd too, not to mention the Mondeo which was probably the best. The early 164 V6s were certainly kings of torque steer, they made several changes but it was never eliminated. My father used to say that when you wanted to overtake you just floored it and the car pulled out itself!!
@@benzinapaul7416 I gotta talk it up a little, i own one. Ok, one of the better fwd saloons.
@@DashCamSerbia this was when they were new, maybe now tyres are better so it's less of an issue. I love the 164 but only a fool would ignore it's shortcoming.
Acura Legend. In a car magazine here in the US, they picked the Acura Vigor over this
A sport wagon would have been brilliant! A shame that it didn't make it to production. Very nice video 👏👏
In the US, an owner made a wagon by grafting the rear wagon compartment of a Ford Taurus 🤦🏻♂️
@@nessuno5403 Tom Zat, I believe.
Couldn't agree more!
Very auspicious indeed to subscribe to your channel, dear Matteo, I am a long time alfisti (since childhood) and you made every alfisti's dream come true, a channel almost exclusively dedicated to our brand . It is just unfortunate that the Protéo concept (based on the 164 platform) didn't it make to the production line ; it would have been a mega hit. I am form Mauritius Island (a small dot in the Indian ocean) and am expecting to receive my 164 3.0 (1995 MY) Super automatic-fully loaded- from the Uk. The 164 is, for me, apart from being my dream car, the most beautiful contemporary alfa ever to exist (Grazie Enrico Fumia).
Wow, it's so great to receive such warm praise from such a faraway place... And what a slice of paradise you live in! I'll have to come and visit one day. Cheers from Italy and congratulations on your 164!
@@Matteo_Licata Thanks for your kind words, Matteo, any time you decide to come to visit Mauritius, give me a shout! , I'll be more than pleased to be your guide !!!
The coupe prototype is just beautiful! Thanks a lot for this interesting video, ciao🙋♂️
My pleasure! Thank you!
It was my favourite car 35 years ago... Today in 2022, THE ALFA 164/168 STILL IS MY FAVOURITE CAR. My beloved 168 is a welcomed sight on Malaysian roads amidst a sea of 90% similar looking cars around. Just need to give her extra TLC because it's difficult to source parts locally.
Wow, congratulations and thank you for commenting: it’s nice to hear that a 168 is still lovingly maintained. Sourcing parts for these cars isn’t easy anywhere, sadly, especially body and trim stuff.
That is so sooo true 😬... We try our best to keep the body & trim as immaculate as possible to minimise the headache of sourcing body and trim parts. Thankfully mechanical parts are readily available from online sellers and halfcut dealers 🤲. We are also thankful the 164/168 doesn't suffer from rust issues unlike many of her predecessors 🤲... This helps significantly in maintaining the body condition 👍
I love my 164L very much.
Cool! How many years have you owned it?
Italian jewel as always !!!!!!..............
Over 40h still?? Can’t wait 😅
Ok ok. I knew about the 168. But the rest i didn't know. That sportwagon looks great! Thank Mateo 👍🏼🍀
Thank you!
Beh la 164 e una opera d'arte 😍❤ bella video 👍
The Alfa Romeo 164 was also the first production Alfa sold without carburettors.
That’s something I hadn’t thought about, true!
Alfa 164...my first love 😍😁
Looking forward to this too
The 164 was also the last Alfa Romeo to be sold in the US before they pulled out of the market in 1995, until they re-entered it decades later.
Yes indeed. During the GTV and Spider's development, it was briefly considered to bring them Stateside, but Alfa Romeo North America's losses and the less-than-stellar 164 sales led Fiat to just pack and leave altogether.
@@Matteo_Licata Alfa’s dealer network in the US had long been a ragtag organization that struggled to properly support the very small Alfa range the company exported to the US, from both the sales/marketing and service sides. They would have required significantly more investment to bring their marketing and dealer network up to scratch, and I guess Fiat didn’t see fit to make that investment. In order to make Alfa work at that time, they’d have probably needed to bring Fiat cars back to the US to give prospective dealers a better sales volume proposition. But, as the company had already withdrawn Fiat and Lancia-branded cars from US shores in 1982 - before they took over Alfa - they’d probably determined that this wasn’t worth their time, effort, or money.
Sad, because I think that, given the right dealer and parts/service network, the 164 would have sold much better, as would the Type 916 GTV and Spider. I bet the 156, 166, and 147 would have done well, too.
@@Matteo_Licata Alfa's sports cars had always done better (at least in terms of market share) than their sedans. But the Mazda Miata had really upended that segment.
Ricordo quando nel giugno 1988 ci recammo in concessionaria Alfa con tutta la famiglia, mio padre visionò la 75 che avrebbe acquistato poco dopo, io rimasi abbagliato dalla 164. Seduto al posto guida rimasi come ipnotizzato da tutti quei pulsanti sulla console centrale, mi sembrava un'astronave, un qualcosa venuto dal futuro. E poi quella silhouette filante e aerodinamica, che bellezza! Avevo nove anni
Eh si, era proprio modernissima la 164, un salto in avanti notevole, sotto tutti i punti di vista, rispetto a quello che Alfa aveva fatto fino ad allora, cioé ristilizzare ed aggiornare vecchi modelli. Quale 75 poi prese tuo papà?
@@Matteo_Licata Una 2.0 turbodiesel, allora faceva oltre 40.000 km l'anno per lavoro e il diesel era un must. Con i suoi 95 CV per l'epoca era un ottimo diesel, prodotto dalla VM Motori
Awesome video ❤
Glad you liked it!
Handsome car
Ehm ehm... Even as an Alfista, I find that of the 4 the best design was that of the Croma, harmonic, elegant and practical.
Really a great quality sedan at an honest price.
Very Nice looking car !
The Alfa 164 Q4 👌
Hi Patrick! The Q4 was an insanely cool car, pity they made very few of those
Can you make a video about the 8C Competizione and Spider pls? Thanks bro, amazing video as always
That’s a good idea! I’ll research 5 juicy factoids about those, we’ll see.
Beautiful car! 🍀❤️
We agree!
I have an opinion, that Italian car manufacturers are superior in terms of design, engineering, racing. But they are really bad in commercial and PR. Guys-from 1998 I was a purely German car enthusiast, mainly Volkswagen-Audi, Opel, BMW. In 2018 I got a Giulia for a test drive and totally fall in love with this chassis. Finally, a few weeks ago I got a 2022 Alfa-Romeo Stelvio. This car is far ahead compared to the Q5, X3-X4. And it's cheaper. But here, in the US, you have to wait for the Audi and BMW 2-3 months, and you can get the Alfa right now, from the inventory. The problem is, that nobody knows about this brand and especially the Stelvio SUV in the USA. Same thing with technological inventions. VR engines, common-rail, cam phasers. free-floating valves and many more things were designed by Italians, but nobody knows about it. So Italian guys-don't be shy, push your superior products ahead!
I'm glad you are enjoying your Stelvio. Indeed, the Giulia and Stelvio are brilliant cars that people don't buy because they don't even know they exist, especially outside Italy. I hope that the powers that be at Stellantis will market Alfas better!
The proposed wagon and convertible variants are gorgeous! Too bad the platform drives the wrong axle.
Did you ever drive one ? I drove quite a few, and owned three. They handle just fine. There was some torque steer, but only if you were a rough driver. To anyone with "sympatico" it wasn't a problem. I was driven round Silverstone in a 164 Cloverleaf by a racing driver ( and drove myself as well ). Now that was fun 😁
Brilliant factoid sir. Any chance of covering it's precursor, the tipo 156?
It would be cool to tell the story of the projects 154 and 156, the Giulietta and Alfetta replacements Alfa Romeo worked on between 1980 and 1982 but had to scrap due to lack of funds. I'd need to do a proper research in Alfa's archives though, as there's precious little material out there. I'm keen on doing that research, but I can't make any promises!
Would appreciate that as with the Internet bursting with hidden nuggets of info, it'd be great to learn abit more. I tried reading the bulletin boards of alfistis but since it's mostly Italian, I wouldn't be able to capture the nuances and interpret correctly through Google translate
Strange that they didn't sell atleast 100 000 a year just on home market italy.
La nonna più bella dell'era FIAT
vero!
Di tutti l’Alfa, il 164 ho dato il più problemi. Bel disegno. Era un peccato non hanno fatto in coupe & wagon. Mi piace il ‘ute’ di Balocco.
1. That the 164 share the floor with the fiat croma, lancia thema and saab 5000? 2. That alfa actually want rear wheel drive? 3 that the automatic gearbox only was available in the 6c, because they thought that the 2.0 twin spark was to weak? 4. That they made the alfa proteo a prototype from the 164 and have 4 wheel stearing? 5. That the headlights from that proteo, where fixt in the gtv/spider? I already knew😉🥳🎉
Nope, that’s not what’s in my video :)
Eh? The Tipo 4 platform was shared with the FIAT Croma, Lancia Thema, but SAAB 9000 not 5000. And due to Chinese superstition, the 164 was renamed 168 in their territories 😉
@@nessuno5403 that's true. I made a mistake with the saab 5000, they must fix that first, and 168 is also treu because the number 4 brings bad luck
@@Matteo_Licata 😠😠😠 oh no? Let's check out your video👍🏼😁
@@minopino3 😂 welcome to the party... even if it already finished! I guessed "168" 😜
❤️❤️❤️❤️🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞
I would also mention the 164 procar..
I would say the 164 Procar is quite well known among enthusiasts, so that's why I haven't mentioned it.
Did they do a very small number of 2.5 24V V6 very late in production? I think not but I have read somewhere they did...
I'll check that out, but I don't think it ever happened.
For 164 : 2 liter V6 TB and 3.0 V6 Busso engines only. In D segment 2.5 V6 Busso 12V appears in Alfa 155 and lately on 156 in 24v and in E segment on Alfa 166 also in 24V
@@Matteo_Licata I knew I wasn't dreaming, on page 480 of 'Tutte le Alfa Romeo' by Editoriale Domus it says that 13 164 Supers with the 2.5 V6 petrol engine were built. Is this true, who knows but that is where I read this. I can send you screenshot if I knew how
@@benzinapaul7416 No need for a screenshot, as I have that book :)
The 13 examples of 164s equipped with 2.5 V6 (12 valve) engines are called "experimental." I don't know what that means precisely, but my guess is that these examples weren't sold to the public, but were made to evaluate the possibility of offering the smaller V6 on some markets. In short, prototypes used for various testing purposes.
@@Matteo_Licata 6 things you didn't know about the 164 haha
Wait the 164 is LESS boxy than the 75? Umm... To me they are 100% obviously part of the same family, even if a generation apart
La 164 e' la berlina di segmento E piu' bella che sia mai stata costruita.
Direi che si può essere d'accordo, si :)
Still missing my 1992 TS. My current 156 is nice, but it's a toy compared to the 164.
The italian Camry ..
If only the 164 had been RWD
It didn’t need to be. It’s part of its appeal. It would of been another “ me too”
It's a shame that they made it FWD.