"But Shady, there are other reasons besides Death Battle as to why people think Superman is boring." Yes, I'm aware. I was just eager to talk about the damage DB did to the conversation. (Which isn't really their fault, it was moreso how salty Goku fans interpreted their words) This conversation has been on my mind for years, so my diction put most of the blame on DB even though there are other factors. The Lex Luthor clip I used from After Hours came out WAY before DB's video.
And people actually wondered why they redid the episode with more a showcase of their characters along with their feats,which is sorta why I prefer 3 over the original .
I'm just starting your video and my question was more "How does someone like Wonder Woman have an invisible aircraft in the first place?" She's from Themescura. An island that is untouched by even semi modern tech. They seem to live like ancient Romans. It'd be like someone giving Sir Justin, the shining night an ak47 XD. Edit: I think the "consciousness" of those around him in the black mercy dream world were just extensions of his own. In a symbolic way, he had to kill/end a part of himself. That's why he's so ticked at Mongrol. There actually is a real life example. There was a man who entered a coma, got a girlfriend, married her, had kids, the whole deal in his dream. He eventually awoke from the coma and had to see a grief counselor for the loss of people who never actually existed. Edit 2: Wonder Woman was able to get Batman free because the black mercy didn't have as long to dig into him as it did supes.
@@UltraGalaxyify Early DB? Maybe, but 1. No one's creative work on a site like this should be considered cancer if it's not spreading anything actually hateful. 2. Death Battle and the power scaling fandom in general has grown a lot since that episode. Back then, they mostly just pitted people against eachother for no reason, and did little in the way of character stuff. And this made the first Goku VS superman episode suck because Goku was a manchild (moreso than usual) and Superman was a stoic man not worrying about his city. These are horrible characterizations for the two characters. But now its far later. The third video has come out. And Goku and Superman seem to be having *fun!* with their fight! Goku wants a challenging opponent, and Clark Kent wants to let loose finally. It compliments the characters far better than before, and they are both not worried about death because, good news! Dragon balls! Later seasons of this show have made each fight between characters make more sense, so not only do we get awesome fights between characters, we also get good reason for the fights to begin! You can dislike death battle, that's fine, just don't go around calling it or it's community cancerous or something that deserves fucking purging.
And it's a TV adaptation and not one of these ultra gritty movies. I think that shows just how far his adaptations have gone from the true meaning they can have.
That's because I think that Alan Moore liked that the episode improved upon his idea from his viewpoint. One of Alan's problems as a writer is that he is highly cynical, and the original story shows these issues such as Kal-El being ostracized from his father Jor-El due to issues from Krypton not exploding along with Kara Zor-El being assaulted because again Jor-El was wrong. J. M. DeMatteis was able to make the fantasy world work better for Clark because the cynical fall of Jor-El isn't there along with all the other issues that an ideal dream world wouldn't have. However, I'll give Alan Moore this: Kal hugging Val as the whole world collapses was just as powerful.
Here's an insight I had about this episode: Bruce's fantasy is not just that his parents didn't die, but that HE didn't have to be the one to save them. His fantasy is that his dad stepped up and won and all he had to do was cheer.
Theres a reason why his evil versions are always intriguing to see, it shows how much Klark holds back. The cardboard world quote always stuck with me.
I think it goes to show how some versions of Superman really seem to prefer a simple life. One that isn't bogged down by violence and complicated moral choices. It's hard to be happy in this when you're the one neck deep in it, god-like powers or not. He was raised by farmers after all.
Not to mention he never sees himself as "MORE THAN" anybody else. Batman, Womder woman, the old lady down at the bus stop, are all worth protecting. Whats really terrifying about Superman is what if he had been raised by child molesters?... Could have so easily had a God destroying the world.
I love how much his ideal son is not some perfectly behaved kid, but someone who makes mistakes but is good at heart. It shows that Superman doesn't expect or want moral infallibility, but of the genuine goodness people can be capable of if they try. It is so goddamn wholesome.
I love how when you boil it down, bruce and clark have the same dream. To not be superman and batman. It's no wonder they are great friends despite having very different outlooks on basically everything
It's almost like the thing that made them heroes is deep and powerful traumas. TBH, I think Wonder Woman is the only member of the original Justice League with no source of trauma baked into their backstory, which is an incredibly tragic thing.
@@XaviusNightTo be fair, Clark didn’t become Superman because of trauma or anything like that. He just was raised well and recognized that he had a gift and could use it to help others. Or at least that’s how it usually is.
@@arlwithac9285 Yeah, that's fair; I was more referring to the trauma of losing everything of his people being a core aspect of him - not the only one, or necessarily the most important, but it still hangs there.
Superman's problem is how new writers treat him like a prophet or Jesus copy. Superman is a normal guy raised on a farm. He has values of hard work. Plus like batman he can find the best even in the worst of people like when he was sent into the future and made friends with a villain who destoryed the world and got him to say "thank you friend". He found humanity in someone who destoryed it and even used his brain in that episode to fix a car and make a weapon. It also annoys me how people misunderstanding of how flash and superman are different. Superman wants to be that hope people can look up to while flash is a good friend as we see in the show. Both have their fans but superman needs to hold that image so villains don't attack regular people.
Yeah I think the writer grant Morrison said it best, is what helped me in how I view Superman, he is just a regular guy but through a grand lens (so a story of his would be saving a cat out of a tree except the cat is an alien tiger deity and the tree is a warlords space satellite)
To be fair, Vandal Savage was also at a point where he realized what the consequences of his power-hungry schemes brought him: a desolate world of no other human contact or social interaction that broke his mind in a way. But not knocking on Superman, it was him being able to put aside the differences he had with Vandal to be able to return to his time and fix what Vandal caused.
This was the episode that proved that Superman isn’t boring. He tries so hard to be a perfect symbol of good so much so that many believe that he’s perfect in real life. To see him break down proves he’s a real person with emotion.
The scene of Clark giving up his perfect fantasy for the sake of saving his friends is definitely something that hits you more as an adult than it did as a child. Shows like Justice League and episodes like this, specifically, are the gold standard for writing characters like Superman.
I’m not even a father, and yet I felt the kind of pain it would take to let go of your fake son through Superman, that is how you know this is the best show ever
Honestly when I watched it all a kid, I didn't feel anything, same as when I rewatched as an adult. But as a parent now all I can see is my own children in that moment and holy crap it twists a knife I didn't realize was there.
You know an adaptation is good when Alan Moore, a man who is infamous for hating literally every other adaptation so much he refuses to allow his name to be credited, actually allows his name to be credited in the adaptation.
It's a pretty short list. Then again while I agree that Watchmen, the TV series anyway, is utter crap and the Killing Joke animated movie was bad, V for Vendetta was excellent
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 Alan Moore actually has respect for David Hayter's watchmen screenplay (yea, at one point solid snake almost wrote a film adaptation of watchmen, but universal fucked with it so much he left). David Hayter actually reached out to him and asked him about doing it. Apparently his only real request was for Hayter to make it his own though. Still, he valued that he had the respect to reach out to him unlike other people trying to adapt his work.
@@nickelakon5369 I think the problem was more with Zack Snyder style of directorship that kind of misrepresented the work. Wished we would have had literally someone that admitted to not liking superheroes directing superheroes movies (even satire one).
@@bachpham6862 I mean, universal kept trying to change stuff so Hayter left. I can't say whether or not hayter's watchman would have better, and I actually do like Snyder's version. But I'd still like to have seen what Hayter's version would have been if he had stayed to the end and wasn't messed with.
Supeeman's simple declarations to Mongul. "Do you have any idea what you did to me..." and "BURN", followed by the screaming. The voice actors sold it across the board. That was the darkest I'd seen Supes go back then. And it felt right. He was mad. While they were illusions, he had the pain of losing his family newly burned into his soul. What a great episode.
I'm really glad that we're seeing more and more appreciation for Superman lately. As big an icon as he is, I feel like he gets shafted too often unless he's evil for some reason.
Me too, I get it's a cool idea but Superman being an idealistic hero is what makes him special. Him turning on humanity would be so easy but he chose to do something better than that. The fact is that not a lot of people understand that it is annoying to me.
Mongul: hahah I will piss off Superman so hard it’ll fling him long past the point of no return *Superman proceeds to direct all that raw anger and desperation on him* Mongul: maybe I didnt think this through
A few things from a guy who absolutely loves this episode: The music that plays as Superman says goodbye to his son as the planet explodes is the same music that plays when he leaves Krypton as a baby in Superman the Animated Series. When Superman sees the Black Mercy in Jor El's lab he holds his hand to his chest BUT NOT ON HIS CHEST. His hand stops at the exact (maybe not exact as Batman is pulling on the thing) spot where the Black Mercy actually is on him implying his senses are coming back. The fact that Batman's fantasy is his Dad beating up the criminal, while no surprise to us, is literally the ONLY thing he wants shows how messed up he is. It's a prime example of a quote Batman says in the comics saying "..because deep down Clark is a good person and deep down I'm not" to paraphrase.
To paraphrase (or quote to the best of my memory) the reason why Batman doesn’t date Wonder Woman in the DCAU: “You’re a princess from a tribe of immortal warriors. I’m a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.”
There was a similar exchange from the episode "Kid Stuff" (S1, E3 of Justice League) where they all get reverted to being kids. Wonder Woman: Circumstances aside, it was kind of... enjoyable to be a kid again. Batman: I haven't been a kid since I was eight years old.
10:35 I think you have to have a child yourself for this to elicit an emotional response. As a girl, watching this episode, I didn't really care when he said goodbye to his son. I was rooting for it even, thinking that the kid was nothing more than a obstacle superman needed to get rid of. But as an adult woman, now a mother, this scene was heartbreaking. A child very much so is an extension of one's self. To see them go or die is like having a piece of yourself die. And to know all those memories were fake and the people you loved were too would be mind shattering. Imagine one day you woke up to find out everything and everyone in your life was a lie, that the decades of life you lived were nothing more than a few hours of illusion. That the innocent child who looks up to you, and you're their whole entire world just as they are yours, will die.
I don't think you have to be a parent, the same emotions can happen if you suddenly lose your parents like Bruce. All that time just snapped away like nothing.
Not to insult or belittle, but it's different with your children. There's an absolute tie between you and your parents, but the one going down the family tree is even stronger, and it's difficult to explain to those who don't have their own children. Maybe it's because we live our lives knowing, on some level, that we will (or should) outlive our parents while also fervently praying that our children outlive us.
I loved the Batman joke. Like this man is the world's greatest detective, but can't figure out what to give to a friend on his birthday. I mean the man pays for almost everything in the JL, what else could he give? XD
Superman: hey Bruce my birthdays coming up is there anything you were thinking about getting me? Bruce: yeah I’m gonna keep the lights on. Out of my face.
Clark is a man who never got to experience his home world, so he studies the culture and history of the people he’ll never get to meet. He loves his adopted world, but he’ll always wonder what his life could’ve been like on a world where he isn’t a strange immigrant. To some, he’s the man who has everything. But he’s also the man who lost everything
There’s a massive problem with that narrative though, he never started to care about where he came from until he found out about it. He grew up on Earth perfectly content and happy without a care in the world. His biggest worry was what was happening to him when he developed his powers but that is conflict of what he is, not where he came from. I hate this kind of portrayal of Superman because it spits in the face of his adoptive parents that installed in him the moral compass to be the best of all of us.
My question is 'Were They Sentient?' The world was created in Superman's head, its more than likely that the Black Mercy was using already made memories and dreams in Clark's head to simulate the world and people, similar to daydreaming. This world is perfect because Clark likely had some small amount of control of it, even if he didn't realize it. Reactions to what he said and did in the world were based on what reactions he imagined the people may have. Like his son Val, when scolded, could have easily sassed back or grumbled like kids often do, but instead he is calm, remorseful and quickly accepts the lesson. (Not saying kids can't be like that, but its very American dream, Leave It To beaver-esk.) This is also why his father's voices changes in the middle of speaking. Jor-El is Clark's father, but just as equally so is John. His brain holds both in that position so the simulation got momentarily mixed. If they were sentient, wouldn't the other people have noticed things like that? Also wouldn't they have questioned the tremors as well? Sentience is very uncontrollable, which is likely to work against the Black Mercy, just like how Justice Guild of America turned against Ray Thompson, who had the ability to alter reality and created people out of thin air WITH sentience. In my mind, the people are all made up and imaginary, not really sentient or alive. They were just simulations based more on memories, hopes and daydreaming rather then pure information. THAT BEING SAID Clark's emotions for these fake people were VERY real. As was the loss of them, especially if the Black Mercy made up a lifetime of memories for this world, not just ones to placate Clark's mind. After all Clark remembers Val being born. Dose he have simulated memories of being raised in this world? Dating? His Marriage? Its very intrusive and manipulative and Clark has every right to be as angry as he was. Thats just my thoughts however!
Yeah, I don't get the "they were sentient" point of view. The Black Mercy basically traps people in a happy dream. Dreaming doesn't create life. We aren't killing people everytime we wake up.
The story that made me realize that Superman was an interesting character was the movie, Superman vs the Elite. The story isn't about Superman punching the bad guy, its about Superman's ideology being tested, showing the downsides of having that ideology and why having the ideology is important.
That is my favorite superman movie, it hits right at the core of who he is and puts him in a situation where he can't punch his way out of it. He has to think and find a way around it without violence until he can find the answer he can't make a move. But when it's time to act he dose and he's true to his character. I honestly think one of the best lines in the film is when everyone is watching things go down. Someone asks, "Is that superman?" the answer they get, "Not anymore." That is both heartbreaking and terrifying based on it's implications. As he says, what he believes is far from perfect, but to me if a man like him can't hold onto hope then what hope is there for the rest of us?
This is one movie I want remade as Live Action. As I feel a live action movie would reach more people; as to me it is the most ideal Superman story you can get without needing much set up or lore. The whole movie is about showing /exactly/ who Superman is and what he is about. And all you need to know going in, is the most basic info that's already in the public zeitgiest. Everything else gets explains and explored. Also Manchester Black is a hell of an antagonist, just a fairly perfect inversion of Superman and his ideals, without going completely overboard. It'd be very easy to make an anti-superman that was just pure evil; but an Anti-Superman that's kinda likable and actually has a fairly legit view?
What makes Superman special is his humanity. The burden of being a God who can shape the world how he pleases. Yet he chooses to help others for the sake of it. One of my favorite Superman moments, which I think is just the perfect encapsulation of his character. Is when he sees a suicidal girl. He waits, all day, and into the night. Not moving an inch until she's ready to talk. It's a touching scene, he could be doing so much, but he spends his whole day helping one person, in the grand scheme of things a blip on his radar. Because she simply needs help and Clark is the Big Blue Boy Scout. It gets me choked up thinking about it.
I loved the part where Superman's son walked up to him at the dinner table and said, "You should join the Fighters' Guild! It's a great way to make some coin, if you've got the stones for it."
Superman is such an iconic figure because of the influence he has on those around him. He had the power to do whatever he wants and he chooses to use it to be a good person and make the world a better place. I love how the writers focused on the internal conflict Superman deals with because a hero can’t be successful without overcoming obstacles. Superman stands for three things: Truth, Justice, and The American Way!
6:06 Ironic how Mongul get those same exact visions when the Black Mercy is attached to him. You don't see it, but you do hear it in distance, like people screaming in fear and stuff. This is not really shown here, but as a kid, I remember it being really eerie to listen to those screams.
Honestly it's nice to see Superman gaining popularity in the mainstream again. Yes, he's always had an iconic status, but he hasn't always been popular, especially when compared to batman. I think it's just the cyclical nature of things and how we want what we don't have. Times were good superheroes were too goody goody so we wanted edgy things, and so batman became popular. Now everyone one and everything is panicking and superheroes are edgy so we want goody goody heroes like superman again.
the funny thing is, Batman is not really that dark of a character. He's best friends with Superman because they actually have quite a bit in common. Bruce is also an optimist because he believes Gotham can get better and believes sparing criminals' lives gives them a chance at redemption. Batman is certainly not as dark as the Punisher or Red Hood.
@@dynaguy3yeah exactly, I hate how some people think these two can never be friends/will always come to blows/are diametrically opposed when logically that is the complete opposite. Batman’s end goal is to have people like Superman, people with massive power but will use said power for something as simple as helping a cat out of a tree (that’s his goal for Gotham) And on topic of Batman not being dark, I 100% agree. I feel to many fans/people assume Batman is a gritty antihero because he shares surface level visual elements with them (fights mainly at night, wears black, has inner monologue) when in actuality Batman is just a genuine hero but with a gothic noir aesthetic
That’s honestly really accurate to why I think this keeps happening, not necessarily because of the state of the world affecting preference but I do feel we cycle in and out of “man pure good heroes are just so boring to read, gritty dark antiheroes are way cooler and interesting” and “gritty antiheroes are boring/annoying, having a pure good hero is so refreshing and inspiring”
@@christopherauzenne5023 I think state of the world has some effect on it. Not entirely, but enviromental factors can't be discredited completely. In times of stability youy might want a bit of darknes, and in times of darkness you might want a bit of stability; even if its from your fiction.
As someone who has literally never read a Super hero comic in his life and who's only experience with them is the first Injustice game, the mobile spin-off, and reviews on youtube, I really like Superman. like... actual Superman, the boy-scout who'd sooner give up all his powers than go back on his morals and who's only ever looking out for those around him. The idea of a dude with the power of plot on his side and the morals to not go crazy because of it is interesting to me, and watching him be poked and prodded at has given a lot of stories I quite like hearing and thinking about, even if I haven't read any myself. I kinda wish more stories about things like that were about, because I do really like that sort of thing, watching a hero be tested is where most of the fun comes from, and having that test not be physical but mental like it kinda has to be with Super Man is really fun. Which is why it sucks so much when people label him boring and we get less of that as a result, I loooove Dragonball, I've seen every movie, every short, watched every episode of the anime for ball, Z, GT, and Super several times over, went back and read all of the manga after that, and I've played most of the games at one point or another... But goku definitely ain't Superman, in fact he's kinda the opposite. The fun with goku is seeing how he pushes past his limits to take down foes more powerful than himself, and goku is anything but a purely moral character, he regularly puts himself and other people in danger because he thinks it sounds fun, at least from dragon ball to mid Z, in the Cell and Buu stuff that kinda slows down, but it's still kinda there. Equally annoying tho, I think, is how Goku has kinda been turned into a more fight happy version of Superman, because that kinda misses the point of goku as much as any evil superman misses the point of superman. it's a cool idea, maybe a little what-if thing, but that's just not who they are. Goku is a selfish, naive family man who wants to punch strong guys, making him a hero out of nowhere ignores the poison in him: that lust for a good fight and the lengths he's willing to go to in order to get one is what makes Dragon ball, Dragonball. TL;DR - I like Superman being a boy-scout and Goku being a dumbass who just really likes punching guys.
Man, them using the Destruction of Krypton music in the background while Superman is telling Van-El that isn't real is just...heartbreaking. And that little "I'll never forget" he says to his son at the end... Bro...who's chopping up onions in here?
The I can’t believe you left this to live on a farm line is actually WAY darker than you think, because he did leave krypton and ended up on a farm. You could even say that its apart of his subconscious mind trying in someway to remind of his old life, of earth. Dark.
To answer Shady's question on who Loana was supposed to be, it was a mix of the two girls, Lois Lane and Lana Lang, meaning that he had feeling for both of them but his self conscience is protraying them as one person
The part where he says goodbye to his son never really got to me until I had my own son. Now that shit gets the water works going. Even if it wasn’t real, he still experienced raising his son. The strength to let go of someone you love more than yourself is unimaginable.
I've always loved this episode. Superman was looking legit angry because for once he felt like he had his culture and people back. In the comics, Superman feels grateful to have been raised by the Kent's but always lonely because he was the only Kyptonian left (besides Supergirl). Superman shouting "Happy?" At Mongol for making him believe he had his most desired future only for him to not only realize it was a lie but also have to be the one to destroy it, I felt that anger. When he looks at the statue of his father and briefly remembers he's all that's left, I felt that longing. WW and Batman being his friends and reminding Superman that even tho he's the lost his people, he's not alone because he's got them, I felt that heart. This is why I love Superman.
One thing I love about Timmverse Superman is he has this genuine wrath streak that so rarely comes out, but when it does, even Darkseid can't stand up to it. There are things even Superman will not tolerate.
Alan Moore liked this script so much he actually allowed them to put his name on the episode. That is RARE and a true testament to Dwayne McDuffys storytelling
Mongul got an interesting ending. You can hear what sounds like screams of civilians in his dream of the Black Mercy. You can tell it's the same exact scenario that he figured Superman was having, which was a nice touch. Kinda weird for a bad guy like him to get a happy ending even though it's fake.
The comic described his dream as vaporizing Robin who was Wonder Woman's stand-in after deflecting the Black Mercy, ripping off Superman's head and watching his eyes roll back in their sockets, and conquering the rest of the universe
I experienced severe whiplash going from choking up at Clark and Bruce in their Black Mercy prisons to cracking up at the free Black Mercy "Tell me what you want" joke. Thank you for that as well as the Pa Kent easter egg and Superman defence.
I find it ironic how Bruce Wayne sees Superman as the “the man who has everything” when pretty much everyone on the league I think would pretty much agree that Batman is the literal definition of “man who has everything”
I truly think the one word to truly describe Superman that nobody uses is... sacrifice. He has given and lost so much in order to do what's right. Even upon his own happiness.😢
What's so messed up is that Batmans happiest world isn't even a full life with his parents. He just imagines Joe Chill being beaten down. He can't even imagine a happy world beyond that moment.
@@Shrapnel82 I respectfully disagree; on many occasions, Bruce Wayne tries to hang up the Batman suit. He funds the police, wanting things to improve so that one day, he is no longer needed as Batman. Each villain and hero within the Batman universe, as far as I know, is a different tragedy, and trying to deal with their inner demons. edit: I think that he can't get past the trauma of what happened, and he uses that to keep his focus and to keep being the Batman, I think it even was mentioned in an episode or two.
@@AndreNitroX More like Bruce despises Joe Chill so much for what he did that seeing his father, one of Joe Chill's victims, not back down and beat the shite out of him would be a dream come true for him. This way, Bruce still has his parents and Joe Chill gets what he deserves.
In a lot of Superman iterations, When someone he loves is killed, that can put him on the path to evil, but that's exactly what happens in this episode. He looses his home and family. Sure they technically weren't real, but he admits it himself that he remembers every moment of their lives together and he had to look into his own child's eyes and say goodbye forever. Even if his son wasn't real, the experience of holding him until he was gone was real to Clark. Afterwards he's so furious with Mongul that he nearly beats him to death for putting him through that until he's reminded not to dishonor the memories of the real home and family he lost by becoming someone they wouldn't be proud of. This version of Superman really showcases his strength. That even after immense heartbreak he won't abandon his values.
Van’s death never really got to me until last year…. I lost someone very dear to me and it destroyed my world for a good while. I decided to rewatch this episode and it helped me through the grieving process. I was Superman in that scene. Powerless to help the one I loved and didn’t want to let them go. His strength, his pain, and his anger in the following scenes really helped me connect with him. And the final scene on him looking optimistic in the future, helped me believe that everything will get better. I’m in a better place now and I think I wouldn’t have made it here without those around me and this episode
Holy sh-! I never noticed the voice-change! Thanks for pointing that out. This is one of my FAVORITE JLU episode because its so emotional and like the original story from the comics it just really gets to me. WHen Mogul says "It must've been like tearing off your own arm." I was like... wow.. that is horrifyingly accurate.
Kudos for it'sjustsomerandomguy snippet. Superman isn't boring.. Superman represents the ideal of what we strive to be everyday. The best versions of ourselves.
Plato once said "The worth of a man is what he does with power." Superman is not boring, he's an exciting character. He chooses to be a hero and struggle with it because that's who he is. "I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control." - Superman
11:30 I'll be honest. For how dark and brooding batman is, I like how in his preferred fantasy version of reality, papa Wayne beat up the burglar in the most comic book hero fashion while lil Bruce watched excitedly
8:30 When your heroes were just good people. And your central villain is a legit bad person you want to see fall. And you can do it without them being silly.
Superman is a great character especially in justice league tas universe. We see how much he has to struggle to both gain the trust of the people and regain it after he was brain washed to take over metropolis. Lose allies like Hamilton who while a jerk you can see how him and the Cadmus group fear how easily super heroes could take over the world(white outfit superman) This episode shows that superman would want a life at home and for his family to be alive. Mongol did something so horrible and thats to batman as well. He could have broken them both in that episode
The reason people call Superman boring, isn't because of the character of Superman itself, its mostly because of how many bad writers have had their chance to write stories for Superman, and then basically those stories becoming well known enough, that everyone basically knows about them, and they get no desire or interest to learn more about the character, just because they got that information and opinion from second hand, and not because they arrived at it by themselves, because when I have shown my friends and colleagues good stories about Superman, such as the one with All Star Superman, or some of the episodes for the animated series or even JL or JL Unlimited, they actually ended up liking the character, and wondered why so many people were negative about the character, when they had a good time being entertained and one even found the Superman from Justice League Action, very memeable just because of how chill they made Superman in that series. Its also funny how some of those people that hate Superman, have no issues whatsoever with characters like Saitama or even All Might, who basically borrow elements from Superman's whole thing, and often times tell a lot of folks to watch One Punch Man or My Hero Academia, and while those stories are good and can be very entertaining, I rather be humbled with stories where they show how Superman is tested and demonstrates how to be the true symbol for heroism, all while being a regular farmer guy at heart who ends up doing good in the world, while trying to leave humanity to do their own thing when he could have been on top of them, unlike all those horrible stories about how Superman "snaps" like Injustice and all that stuff that just doesn't understand the character.
This episode always reminded me of that one episode of BTAS where Batman was put into an "ideal world" by the Mad Hatter where his parents were alive and Bruce was engaged to Selina Kyle.
There's also the tie-in comic The Batman and Robin Adventures issue 17, also featuring the Mad Hatter complete with him having a fate similar to Mongul's.
This episode hit me HARD as a kid, to give up your ideal reality to do what needs to be done. Just hearing you talk about it got me choked up, and I haven't seen this episode in 10 years. Amazing analysis as always, Shady. Excuse me while I find my tissues.
I agree with the final statement. I've heard the "How can I get into a character who can beat everybody with ease" and I have to tell them that they clearly have never read Superman or understand the character. Superman is still my favorite superhero. He is such a great character and has amazing stories.
There also exist people who see Superman's "godhood" as the core aspect of his character, that THAT is what he likes the most, and they borderline worship that version. In truth, and the episode actually shows this, Clark Kent's dream life is to live a simple, happy life with people he loves.
Basically, most people think like Lex Luthor, and believe it's impossible that someone with Superman's powers doesn't have some alterior movtive and genuinely wants to help people.
I've set it before, and I'll say it again. Why can we not get more of this Superman in this day and age? I mean, we kind of have that with "My Adventures with Superman," but still.
@@FeliDJrah If you want an example That easily balances the god-like superhero and humble reporter Who honestly could do entirely without all of it and instead uses all of his power and gifts responsibly, I think that's a shiny one
8:59 is why I've always thought of Wonder Woman to be the Chaotic Good of the Trio Despite being a Vigilante, I can't see Batman as Chaotic Good. He could be considered lawful because he obeys a strict code of justice, but it's easy to label him as Chaotic Good because he operates outside of the law. It doesn't stop him from working with the police when need be. It really depends on the writer.
Superman is my all time favorite superhero already. He’s both relatable and aspirational. Specifically, I mean the post-Crisis pre-Flashpoint Superman.
I like to think that Bruce _immediately_ snapped out of it because he recognized Wonder Woman's voice and had the willpower to wake up. Batman seems like the kind of character to be able to catch on when something isn't real. It was too good to be true and he probably knew that.
Plus, it might be because the Black Mercy wasn't on him as long as it was on Clark, therefore it's hold wasn't as strong yet, if it had been on him a little longer, it would have been a different story. Also, yes, Diana's voice definitely played a part, also goes to show how close their relationship was, AND makes the fact that they didn't end up together all the more sad.
My head cannon, on top of this, is that Bruce was about to, but then he saw the alley and his dad beating the mugger, "No wait, just for a little bit."
Arguably, switching the role to Wonder Woman is better. In a lore sense, since Jason Todd doesn't exist (or at least never became Robin) all while Tim Drake seems to be busy on Gotham City offscreen, then the creators had to be ingeniously resourceful and give the moment to WW. And in a catharsis sense, seeing WW have the last laugh against the misogynistic Mongul... oh-hoh, the victory is so sweet!!!
12:05 because, like the Joker, he's done his damage. Even if Supes beats him to a soup now, Mongul still accomplished his goal of making him suffer and lose everything he's held dear, even as a fabrication
I'm still sad we never got that during the heyday of DC animated cartoons. And the Flash, a Saturday morning cartoon about Justice League's Flash would have been awesome. But alas, we never got it.
God, this episode is so good. Batman might be a tortured soul, but I feel like deep down, Clark still feels that there's something missing, something he'll never have.
2 things I wanna say to Shady: #1: Having "Wannabe" by Spice Girls be the theme of the dream granting parasite was hilarious. #2: I wanna thank you Shady for showing what makes DC heroes awesome. For a long time I was a Marvel fan who didn't have any interest in DC comics. But seeing a fan express why he loves Justice League and other DC heroes has given me a newfound respect and interest for DC stuff.
I love this episode so much, too, and the storytelling and adaption of Alan Moore's comic issue of the same name are absolutely masterful; you genuinely feel the pain of Clark losing what could've been a paradise for him and see the desperate and undying attempts to help Clark by Bruce and Diana which indeed prove how much they care about him as a teammate and deep personal friend, which I love to see from the DC Trinity. I also never noticed that switch in Jor-El and Pa Kent's voices, which I really like since it is sort of an application that Clark's subconscious is seeping through since deep down, even if Jor-El is the biological father, he wishes he could've known, Pa Kent still is and always be the father that raised Clark and loved him, so, of course, he's still going to have some part of him stick with him. BTW I know this is a nitpick, but though Wonder Woman doesn't have a code against killing, she rarely resorts to killing as she does believe in man's world and potential and believes in the ideals of love and compassion to truly help the world and try and help those who need it since Wonder Woman, much like Batman, Flash or Superman does try to help some of her rogues gallery of villains and tries to save them like Cheetah, Silver Swan etc...
Much like Aquaman, if Wonder Woman believes you're a big enough threat she will not hesitate to take you out permanently, however it's almost always as a last resort.
I'm so happy that people are starting to appreciate Superman again. I've gone on countless rants about it with my friends and now both you and Red from Overly Sarcastic have my back, lol.
A lesser-known comic character is the Phantom, who did have an animated series based on a comic book series called Phantom 2040. The Phantom is lesser-known in the US, but he's very popular in India and parts of Africa, but mainly in India. The Phantom's themes are varied, but the biggest one I've noticed is the importance of legacy and familial responsibilities. The Phantom did have a live-action movie back in the 1990s just titled "The Phantom," and it starred Billy Zane in the title role and the way they addresses things in the Phontom's lore and with the Phantom we are following is actually pretty novel; at least by superhero standards. The Phantom actually set the standard for masked heroes after him; he was the first hero to have pure white where his eyes were supposed to be on the mask, which Batman followed suit on, and you'll actually notice quite a few parallels between The Phantom and Batman, but the Phantom actually predates him, his first comic aired in February of 1937, let that sink in for a moment; he also has a creed and code, one that is mirrored by the Batman we know now.
I actually remember the Phantom. I actually had his ring when I was in elementary school. Can't remember how I got it though. Only knew what it was because of the animated series and the movie!
@@nemoisnobody I'm guessing it was the Skull ring, the Phantom actually has 2 rings, the skull ring on one hand and a different ring referred to as "the good mark" on the other hand.
For giving its Just some random guy a shout out, you get my eternal thanks. That is the only man on the internet who could write the DCMU crossover and make it work.
I agree about the bad guy thing. These days everybody wants the bad guy to be super deep and complex and have some crazy backstory. When really sometimes it’s cool just to have a bad guy who’s bad for the sake of being bad
Yeah, I agree. And as an aspiring writer, making a villain that's just a straight up villain that LIKES being a villain is actually a lot of fun. They don't need a heartbreaking reason or some troubled backstory. It's just who and how they are and they enjoy it.
One of my favorite episodes of the DCAU that has my favorite versions of Batman and Superman. This episode is great and is one of the best adaptions from the original comic.
8:00 Good lord do I hate 'relatable villians' all the time too Like, sometimes a good Villian can be totally despicable and you just wanna see them socked in the face while also enjoying the ensuing Hero vs Villian encounter
Mongul is REALLY great as a villain in this episode, and holy smokes this episode is fan-flippin-tastic. This episode is such an emotional gut punch, and that scene hits me right in the feels. Also... don't mind me while I pause the episode... I'm having an attack of The Feels right now. This is about as emotional as listening to the Muppets sing their farewell to Jim Henson. Just... yeah. Writing half this good would have kept the MCU and DCCU going for DECADES, especially if movies were about twice a year. EDIT: ...Okay, that music choice is both inspired and also obnoxious... and obnoxiously funny. Good job!
There's also the fact that, in a lot of Superman stories, if Superman *did* push the limit and do what a lot of anime protagonists did, it would be seen as a horrible thing to do. Because Superman's power *is* infinite. Yet the main message in his story is how humanity as a whole has the power to be better. If Superman truly became the god he is capable of being, then he proves all the skeptics right. Superman has to actively limit his power and solve problems without the use of his super strength simply because it's about the hope that simply doing the right thing is enough.
Superman's power isn't infinite. AT best, it can rise infinitely as long as he has solar energy to absorb, and isn't using it to power his super powers but he isn't infinite. Death Battle was wrong about that and its infuriating that the first Superman vs Goku gave people a lot of misconceptions about the character. If he was infinite, he would have one shot Doomsday their first meeting.
I love how this episode did Superman's waking up versus the comic. In there, he has an earth-shattering scream of pure rage, yelling Mongul's name. Here, he just... blinks. You see his face as he realizes the truth. A flash of sadness. Then determination. And he takes a while to turn around because he has trouble keeping all the anger inside.
Another really good review, Shady. This episode is one of many that made me tear up, and still does to this day. Also, in regards to that bit about Death Battle, they also made the point that Superman's story is about a god trying to live among mortals, which is something else that people seemed to overlook with Superman
Bro please do "this little piggy" Diana and Bruce are SO CUTE in it and it really captures their friendship with Bruce's soft side towards his friends 🫶🏻
Personally I always thought of 2 reasons for Diana being able to break Bruce out of the black mercy were 1) Bruce has actually already had an episode in the original show where he had seen his life without his parents dying on that tragic night, and 2) at this time Diana is the one person je is romantically connected to fully, without that night no batman and no meeting Diana, the person he currently loves is not something he can imagine without that night. Unlike Clark who sees the brighter side easily therefore having his cake and eatting it with his wife in the krypton paradise Bruce has everything tied to not only that moment but that act, his mind is split in a way between the good he has now and what he could have had because of that moment.
Superman has never been boring. The fantasy of Superman is that the man with all the power in the universe just wants to be one of us and to help us selflessly. The fantasy is that we have a role model who embodies the best of us and who wants nothing more than to have a family and for us to be safe and free to pursue our interests. It's the reason "evil Superman" stories are boring. A man who has all the power and wants to oppress us with it isn't a fantasy. It's a stone's throw away from real life. Also, thank you for covering this episode. Easily one of my favorite episodes in JLU. Going on that emotional roller coaster of a ride with Superman and watching him give Mongul exactly what the tyrant had coming is satisfying every time. The way he yells "BURN" gives me, perhaps ironically, chills.
Those who make the "evil superman" story, most of the time, embody what the Green Goblin in Spider-Man said: "But the one thing that they like more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying."
I love your content so much my guy. I love that you revisit these classic nostalgic cartoons and give them a modern critique. It makes the fact we were all kids and how we grew up as adults that we can still cherish these memories and view it critically
14:58 I used to think that about Superman, and heroes like him, but *Overly Sarcastic Productions-Red* opened my eyes, and what I saw after confirmed it.
Trapping someone in their perfect dream world is possibly one of the worst things a villain can do. Having everything you ever wanted then eventually waking up to potentially a cruel reality
@@kelpietales4503 i like it, personally. If I was demigoddess who grew up among the amazons raised as a warrior princess for centuries, I too would probably have some anger issues if fighting is all I ever knew. Plus, it gives her a flaw that she has to overcome as part of her character arc
And yet she’s also the one who’d be the first to offer her enemy an open hand. It’s a great dichotomy. She’s willing to put them down if she has to, but not before trying her damnedest to turn them. I recently read a comic where she fought the Phantom Stranger over the soul of Paula von Gunther, a woman raised to despise WW with every fiber of her being, and had just been trying to kill her and all Amazons. But Diana still fights tooth and nail to give her a chance for redemption because she’s just that awesome.
To be fair, Death Battle rectified this in the 3rd match up between Goku and Superman and acknowledged that Superman's strength in his character and why both he and Goku are icons for their genre even show casing Clark's character moments within the battle itself instead of treating him like an action figure
"But Shady, there are other reasons besides Death Battle as to why people think Superman is boring."
Yes, I'm aware. I was just eager to talk about the damage DB did to the conversation. (Which isn't really their fault, it was moreso how salty Goku fans interpreted their words) This conversation has been on my mind for years, so my diction put most of the blame on DB even though there are other factors. The Lex Luthor clip I used from After Hours came out WAY before DB's video.
And people actually wondered why they redid the episode with more a showcase of their characters along with their feats,which is sorta why I prefer 3 over the original .
Another reason why DB is just a growing cancer that needs to stop
I'm just starting your video and my question was more "How does someone like Wonder Woman have an invisible aircraft in the first place?" She's from Themescura. An island that is untouched by even semi modern tech. They seem to live like ancient Romans. It'd be like someone giving Sir Justin, the shining night an ak47 XD.
Edit: I think the "consciousness" of those around him in the black mercy dream world were just extensions of his own. In a symbolic way, he had to kill/end a part of himself. That's why he's so ticked at Mongrol.
There actually is a real life example. There was a man who entered a coma, got a girlfriend, married her, had kids, the whole deal in his dream. He eventually awoke from the coma and had to see a grief counselor for the loss of people who never actually existed.
Edit 2: Wonder Woman was able to get Batman free because the black mercy didn't have as long to dig into him as it did supes.
@@UltraGalaxyify Early DB? Maybe, but 1. No one's creative work on a site like this should be considered cancer if it's not spreading anything actually hateful.
2. Death Battle and the power scaling fandom in general has grown a lot since that episode. Back then, they mostly just pitted people against eachother for no reason, and did little in the way of character stuff. And this made the first Goku VS superman episode suck because Goku was a manchild (moreso than usual) and Superman was a stoic man not worrying about his city. These are horrible characterizations for the two characters.
But now its far later. The third video has come out. And Goku and Superman seem to be having *fun!* with their fight! Goku wants a challenging opponent, and Clark Kent wants to let loose finally. It compliments the characters far better than before, and they are both not worried about death because, good news! Dragon balls!
Later seasons of this show have made each fight between characters make more sense, so not only do we get awesome fights between characters, we also get good reason for the fights to begin!
You can dislike death battle, that's fine, just don't go around calling it or it's community cancerous or something that deserves fucking purging.
Have you thought about doing a video why superman is important in a world of Omni-man and Homelander?
Id love to hear your thoughts.
Fun fact: this episode is the only adaptation of comic writer Alan Moore’s works that Moore himself actually likes.
Quite the feather on the cap.
And it's a TV adaptation and not one of these ultra gritty movies. I think that shows just how far his adaptations have gone from the true meaning they can have.
That's because I think that Alan Moore liked that the episode improved upon his idea from his viewpoint. One of Alan's problems as a writer is that he is highly cynical, and the original story shows these issues such as Kal-El being ostracized from his father Jor-El due to issues from Krypton not exploding along with Kara Zor-El being assaulted because again Jor-El was wrong. J. M. DeMatteis was able to make the fantasy world work better for Clark because the cynical fall of Jor-El isn't there along with all the other issues that an ideal dream world wouldn't have. However, I'll give Alan Moore this: Kal hugging Val as the whole world collapses was just as powerful.
Alan is also a fan of Happy Harry's Watchmen th-cam.com/video/YDDHHrt6l4w/w-d-xo.html
And as a result, the only one that he allowed his name to appear in the credits for
Here's an insight I had about this episode: Bruce's fantasy is not just that his parents didn't die, but that HE didn't have to be the one to save them. His fantasy is that his dad stepped up and won and all he had to do was cheer.
😭 ouch
Ywah, it's kinda the same with Clark where his fantasy was on Krypton where he's just a regular guy.
This isn’t insight this is just what happened in the episode
Cool
@@atticusrex9468wdym
Superman telling his son "I don't think you're real" has haunted me for years 😭
Oh yes. That was a heavy declaration. I wouldn't have been able to say it.
Yes I feel the same
Bright side, he has a real son now.
@@redrasegarden For now lol. Supes and Flash are the Spiderman of DC after all.
@@pillarmenn1936 I thought that was Batman
Theres a reason why his evil versions are always intriguing to see, it shows how much Klark holds back. The cardboard world quote always stuck with me.
Superman is a man who was given the power of a god while pinning for the life of a man. That.... Really hurts when you think about it.
I think it goes to show how some versions of Superman really seem to prefer a simple life. One that isn't bogged down by violence and complicated moral choices.
It's hard to be happy in this when you're the one neck deep in it, god-like powers or not.
He was raised by farmers after all.
Not to mention he never sees himself as "MORE THAN" anybody else. Batman, Womder woman, the old lady down at the bus stop, are all worth protecting. Whats really terrifying about Superman is what if he had been raised by child molesters?... Could have so easily had a God destroying the world.
I love how much his ideal son is not some perfectly behaved kid, but someone who makes mistakes but is good at heart. It shows that Superman doesn't expect or want moral infallibility, but of the genuine goodness people can be capable of if they try. It is so goddamn wholesome.
and people say Superman is boring
I love how when you boil it down, bruce and clark have the same dream.
To not be superman and batman.
It's no wonder they are great friends despite having very different outlooks on basically everything
They both understand that in a better world they wouldn't be needed
@@commonviewer2488 That's deep
It's almost like the thing that made them heroes is deep and powerful traumas. TBH, I think Wonder Woman is the only member of the original Justice League with no source of trauma baked into their backstory, which is an incredibly tragic thing.
@@XaviusNightTo be fair, Clark didn’t become Superman because of trauma or anything like that. He just was raised well and recognized that he had a gift and could use it to help others. Or at least that’s how it usually is.
@@arlwithac9285 Yeah, that's fair; I was more referring to the trauma of losing everything of his people being a core aspect of him - not the only one, or necessarily the most important, but it still hangs there.
Superman's problem is how new writers treat him like a prophet or Jesus copy.
Superman is a normal guy raised on a farm. He has values of hard work.
Plus like batman he can find the best even in the worst of people like when he was sent into the future and made friends with a villain who destoryed the world and got him to say "thank you friend". He found humanity in someone who destoryed it and even used his brain in that episode to fix a car and make a weapon.
It also annoys me how people misunderstanding of how flash and superman are different. Superman wants to be that hope people can look up to while flash is a good friend as we see in the show. Both have their fans but superman needs to hold that image so villains don't attack regular people.
Yeah I think the writer grant Morrison said it best, is what helped me in how I view Superman, he is just a regular guy but through a grand lens (so a story of his would be saving a cat out of a tree except the cat is an alien tiger deity and the tree is a warlords space satellite)
That's why I think they make such great friends.
DC heroes are generally god-like and awe-inspiring. Marvel heroes are the relatable ones.
To be fair, Vandal Savage was also at a point where he realized what the consequences of his power-hungry schemes brought him: a desolate world of no other human contact or social interaction that broke his mind in a way.
But not knocking on Superman, it was him being able to put aside the differences he had with Vandal to be able to return to his time and fix what Vandal caused.
He's a small town guy in a big city. Writers always forget that. New writers wanna make him more human but end up making him into a godlike figure.
This was the episode that proved that Superman isn’t boring. He tries so hard to be a perfect symbol of good so much so that many believe that he’s perfect in real life. To see him break down proves he’s a real person with emotion.
The scene of Clark giving up his perfect fantasy for the sake of saving his friends is definitely something that hits you more as an adult than it did as a child.
Shows like Justice League and episodes like this, specifically, are the gold standard for writing characters like Superman.
It's kinda like A Goofy Movie, it just hits you differently as an adult, sometimes even worse
I’m not even a father, and yet I felt the kind of pain it would take to let go of your fake son through Superman, that is how you know this is the best show ever
@@wildste Especially if you were a teen when you first watched it and watch it again after your father dies.
Honestly when I watched it all a kid, I didn't feel anything, same as when I rewatched as an adult. But as a parent now all I can see is my own children in that moment and holy crap it twists a knife I didn't realize was there.
13:44 Batman gave Supes his 16 dollars back.
How long has it been?
@@serco258 At least 5 years.
BRO GREAT CATCH I WOULD HAVE NEVER GUESSED
You know an adaptation is good when Alan Moore, a man who is infamous for hating literally every other adaptation so much he refuses to allow his name to be credited, actually allows his name to be credited in the adaptation.
It's a pretty short list. Then again while I agree that Watchmen, the TV series anyway, is utter crap and the Killing Joke animated movie was bad, V for Vendetta was excellent
@@thefanwithoutaface8105
Alan Moore actually has respect for David Hayter's watchmen screenplay (yea, at one point solid snake almost wrote a film adaptation of watchmen, but universal fucked with it so much he left). David Hayter actually reached out to him and asked him about doing it. Apparently his only real request was for Hayter to make it his own though. Still, he valued that he had the respect to reach out to him unlike other people trying to adapt his work.
@@nickelakon5369 I think the problem was more with Zack Snyder style of directorship that kind of misrepresented the work. Wished we would have had literally someone that admitted to not liking superheroes directing superheroes movies (even satire one).
@@bachpham6862 I mean, universal kept trying to change stuff so Hayter left. I can't say whether or not hayter's watchman would have better, and I actually do like Snyder's version. But I'd still like to have seen what Hayter's version would have been if he had stayed to the end and wasn't messed with.
Supeeman's simple declarations to Mongul. "Do you have any idea what you did to me..." and "BURN", followed by the screaming. The voice actors sold it across the board. That was the darkest I'd seen Supes go back then. And it felt right. He was mad. While they were illusions, he had the pain of losing his family newly burned into his soul. What a great episode.
For the Man Who Has Everything....If this episode doesn't stir something inside of you, you truly are heartless.
*if it "doesn't" you mean.
You don't put the star before correcting something manually.Or you could just say, "Doesn't @DBArtsCreators
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A CHALLANGE
Guess I'm heartless
@@braylin7767
*you "do"
I'm really glad that we're seeing more and more appreciation for Superman lately. As big an icon as he is, I feel like he gets shafted too often unless he's evil for some reason.
Me too, I get it's a cool idea but Superman being an idealistic hero is what makes him special. Him turning on humanity would be so easy but he chose to do something better than that. The fact is that not a lot of people understand that it is annoying to me.
"Bruh, why are you bragging and smiling? You are about to DIE!"
I had to replay that scene a few times to get the laughter out of my system
YES!
Because he still got under Superman's skin. It's that villainous satisfaction, the smug, insufferable 'you can't undo what I've done' energy.
@@LordTyph he didn't think that in about... 3 seconds
@@langying I suppose the internal evil laughing would make it hard to think clearer thoughts in a rapid fashion.
Mongul: hahah I will piss off Superman so hard it’ll fling him long past the point of no return
*Superman proceeds to direct all that raw anger and desperation on him*
Mongul: maybe I didnt think this through
Dude, that scene when Clark says goodbye to his son broke me as a young child. Heck, it still brings me to tears everytime I re-watch this episode.
A few things from a guy who absolutely loves this episode:
The music that plays as Superman says goodbye to his son as the planet explodes is the same music that plays when he leaves Krypton as a baby in Superman the Animated Series.
When Superman sees the Black Mercy in Jor El's lab he holds his hand to his chest BUT NOT ON HIS CHEST. His hand stops at the exact (maybe not exact as Batman is pulling on the thing) spot where the Black Mercy actually is on him implying his senses are coming back.
The fact that Batman's fantasy is his Dad beating up the criminal, while no surprise to us, is literally the ONLY thing he wants shows how messed up he is. It's a prime example of a quote Batman says in the comics saying "..because deep down Clark is a good person and deep down I'm not" to paraphrase.
To paraphrase (or quote to the best of my memory) the reason why Batman doesn’t date Wonder Woman in the DCAU: “You’re a princess from a tribe of immortal warriors. I’m a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.”
There was a similar exchange from the episode "Kid Stuff" (S1, E3 of Justice League) where they all get reverted to being kids.
Wonder Woman: Circumstances aside, it was kind of... enjoyable to be a kid again.
Batman: I haven't been a kid since I was eight years old.
@@TheFrugalVideoGameryequ
@@aqwkingchampion13yeau
Yeah
10:35 I think you have to have a child yourself for this to elicit an emotional response. As a girl, watching this episode, I didn't really care when he said goodbye to his son. I was rooting for it even, thinking that the kid was nothing more than a obstacle superman needed to get rid of. But as an adult woman, now a mother, this scene was heartbreaking. A child very much so is an extension of one's self. To see them go or die is like having a piece of yourself die. And to know all those memories were fake and the people you loved were too would be mind shattering. Imagine one day you woke up to find out everything and everyone in your life was a lie, that the decades of life you lived were nothing more than a few hours of illusion. That the innocent child who looks up to you, and you're their whole entire world just as they are yours, will die.
I don't think you have to be a parent, the same emotions can happen if you suddenly lose your parents like Bruce. All that time just snapped away like nothing.
Not to insult or belittle, but it's different with your children. There's an absolute tie between you and your parents, but the one going down the family tree is even stronger, and it's difficult to explain to those who don't have their own children. Maybe it's because we live our lives knowing, on some level, that we will (or should) outlive our parents while also fervently praying that our children outlive us.
I loved the Batman joke. Like this man is the world's greatest detective, but can't figure out what to give to a friend on his birthday. I mean the man pays for almost everything in the JL, what else could he give? XD
Always puts a smile on my face to see Batman act like my uncle on my birthday. This is how you humanize comic book characters.
Superman: hey Bruce my birthdays coming up is there anything you were thinking about getting me?
Bruce: yeah I’m gonna keep the lights on. Out of my face.
That smile on Bruce was definitely sad as hell
Clark is a man who never got to experience his home world, so he studies the culture and history of the people he’ll never get to meet. He loves his adopted world, but he’ll always wonder what his life could’ve been like on a world where he isn’t a strange immigrant. To some, he’s the man who has everything. But he’s also the man who lost everything
You could say in his fantasy he had the best of both worlds. I mean he even fused Lois lane with Lana lang!
I think the reason why he imagines himself on Krypton is because it’s the only place he knows of that makes him a normal guy due to its red sun.
The last son of krypton
In a similar vein, Bruce is someone who had his childhood stolen from him. He was forced to watch as his parents died in front of him.
There’s a massive problem with that narrative though, he never started to care about where he came from until he found out about it. He grew up on Earth perfectly content and happy without a care in the world. His biggest worry was what was happening to him when he developed his powers but that is conflict of what he is, not where he came from. I hate this kind of portrayal of Superman because it spits in the face of his adoptive parents that installed in him the moral compass to be the best of all of us.
My question is 'Were They Sentient?' The world was created in Superman's head, its more than likely that the Black Mercy was using already made memories and dreams in Clark's head to simulate the world and people, similar to daydreaming. This world is perfect because Clark likely had some small amount of control of it, even if he didn't realize it. Reactions to what he said and did in the world were based on what reactions he imagined the people may have. Like his son Val, when scolded, could have easily sassed back or grumbled like kids often do, but instead he is calm, remorseful and quickly accepts the lesson. (Not saying kids can't be like that, but its very American dream, Leave It To beaver-esk.) This is also why his father's voices changes in the middle of speaking. Jor-El is Clark's father, but just as equally so is John. His brain holds both in that position so the simulation got momentarily mixed. If they were sentient, wouldn't the other people have noticed things like that? Also wouldn't they have questioned the tremors as well? Sentience is very uncontrollable, which is likely to work against the Black Mercy, just like how Justice Guild of America turned against Ray Thompson, who had the ability to alter reality and created people out of thin air WITH sentience.
In my mind, the people are all made up and imaginary, not really sentient or alive. They were just simulations based more on memories, hopes and daydreaming rather then pure information. THAT BEING SAID Clark's emotions for these fake people were VERY real. As was the loss of them, especially if the Black Mercy made up a lifetime of memories for this world, not just ones to placate Clark's mind. After all Clark remembers Val being born. Dose he have simulated memories of being raised in this world? Dating? His Marriage? Its very intrusive and manipulative and Clark has every right to be as angry as he was.
Thats just my thoughts however!
Yeah, I don't get the "they were sentient" point of view. The Black Mercy basically traps people in a happy dream. Dreaming doesn't create life. We aren't killing people everytime we wake up.
The story that made me realize that Superman was an interesting character was the movie, Superman vs the Elite. The story isn't about Superman punching the bad guy, its about Superman's ideology being tested, showing the downsides of having that ideology and why having the ideology is important.
That is my favorite superman movie, it hits right at the core of who he is and puts him in a situation where he can't punch his way out of it. He has to think and find a way around it without violence until he can find the answer he can't make a move. But when it's time to act he dose and he's true to his character. I honestly think one of the best lines in the film is when everyone is watching things go down. Someone asks, "Is that superman?" the answer they get, "Not anymore." That is both heartbreaking and terrifying based on it's implications. As he says, what he believes is far from perfect, but to me if a man like him can't hold onto hope then what hope is there for the rest of us?
More people need to watch that movie. Too many people believe Superman should be more like Homelander, Omni-Man, or whatever Snyder thought up.
@@Ability-King-KK which is hilarious because, omni-man was basically created to be an evil version of superman.
This is one movie I want remade as Live Action. As I feel a live action movie would reach more people; as to me it is the most ideal Superman story you can get without needing much set up or lore. The whole movie is about showing /exactly/ who Superman is and what he is about. And all you need to know going in, is the most basic info that's already in the public zeitgiest. Everything else gets explains and explored.
Also Manchester Black is a hell of an antagonist, just a fairly perfect inversion of Superman and his ideals, without going completely overboard. It'd be very easy to make an anti-superman that was just pure evil; but an Anti-Superman that's kinda likable and actually has a fairly legit view?
And it was based on a comic story as well, one issue, surprisingly. Movie had to expand things even with 30+ pages
What makes Superman special is his humanity. The burden of being a God who can shape the world how he pleases. Yet he chooses to help others for the sake of it. One of my favorite Superman moments, which I think is just the perfect encapsulation of his character. Is when he sees a suicidal girl. He waits, all day, and into the night. Not moving an inch until she's ready to talk. It's a touching scene, he could be doing so much, but he spends his whole day helping one person, in the grand scheme of things a blip on his radar. Because she simply needs help and Clark is the Big Blue Boy Scout. It gets me choked up thinking about it.
It was so nice of Mongul to give Soops an Elder Scrolls game! So many of my friends LOVED Oblivion!
Angry at myself for not making this joke.
Oh god damn it
I loved the part where Superman's son walked up to him at the dinner table and said, "You should join the Fighters' Guild! It's a great way to make some coin, if you've got the stones for it."
Though, I don't think that game is for newbies to the Elder Scrolls games.
@@ShadyDoorags It was right there too.
12:49 Missed an opportunity to have Mongol litterally handing Superman a copy of elder scrolls 4 oblivion. XP
Superman is such an iconic figure because of the influence he has on those around him. He had the power to do whatever he wants and he chooses to use it to be a good person and make the world a better place. I love how the writers focused on the internal conflict Superman deals with because a hero can’t be successful without overcoming obstacles. Superman stands for three things: Truth, Justice, and The American Way!
So, two good things and one that's ruining your country
Jokes apart, I agree with everything you said, but that last phrase
@@VJK102 Sadly all 3 of those have been screwed up by society
Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow
@@daryltor7608 that is more Superman
6:06 Ironic how Mongul get those same exact visions when the Black Mercy is attached to him. You don't see it, but you do hear it in distance, like people screaming in fear and stuff. This is not really shown here, but as a kid, I remember it being really eerie to listen to those screams.
I always thought black mercy was starro
Honestly it's nice to see Superman gaining popularity in the mainstream again. Yes, he's always had an iconic status, but he hasn't always been popular, especially when compared to batman. I think it's just the cyclical nature of things and how we want what we don't have. Times were good superheroes were too goody goody so we wanted edgy things, and so batman became popular. Now everyone one and everything is panicking and superheroes are edgy so we want goody goody heroes like superman again.
the funny thing is, Batman is not really that dark of a character. He's best friends with Superman because they actually have quite a bit in common. Bruce is also an optimist because he believes Gotham can get better and believes sparing criminals' lives gives them a chance at redemption. Batman is certainly not as dark as the Punisher or Red Hood.
@@dynaguy3 I agree. But that's comics fans understanding of the character. Not general public understanding.
@@dynaguy3yeah exactly, I hate how some people think these two can never be friends/will always come to blows/are diametrically opposed when logically that is the complete opposite. Batman’s end goal is to have people like Superman, people with massive power but will use said power for something as simple as helping a cat out of a tree (that’s his goal for Gotham)
And on topic of Batman not being dark, I 100% agree. I feel to many fans/people assume Batman is a gritty antihero because he shares surface level visual elements with them (fights mainly at night, wears black, has inner monologue) when in actuality Batman is just a genuine hero but with a gothic noir aesthetic
That’s honestly really accurate to why I think this keeps happening, not necessarily because of the state of the world affecting preference but I do feel we cycle in and out of “man pure good heroes are just so boring to read, gritty dark antiheroes are way cooler and interesting” and “gritty antiheroes are boring/annoying, having a pure good hero is so refreshing and inspiring”
@@christopherauzenne5023 I think state of the world has some effect on it. Not entirely, but enviromental factors can't be discredited completely. In times of stability youy might want a bit of darknes, and in times of darkness you might want a bit of stability; even if its from your fiction.
As someone who has literally never read a Super hero comic in his life and who's only experience with them is the first Injustice game, the mobile spin-off, and reviews on youtube, I really like Superman. like... actual Superman, the boy-scout who'd sooner give up all his powers than go back on his morals and who's only ever looking out for those around him. The idea of a dude with the power of plot on his side and the morals to not go crazy because of it is interesting to me, and watching him be poked and prodded at has given a lot of stories I quite like hearing and thinking about, even if I haven't read any myself. I kinda wish more stories about things like that were about, because I do really like that sort of thing, watching a hero be tested is where most of the fun comes from, and having that test not be physical but mental like it kinda has to be with Super Man is really fun.
Which is why it sucks so much when people label him boring and we get less of that as a result, I loooove Dragonball, I've seen every movie, every short, watched every episode of the anime for ball, Z, GT, and Super several times over, went back and read all of the manga after that, and I've played most of the games at one point or another... But goku definitely ain't Superman, in fact he's kinda the opposite. The fun with goku is seeing how he pushes past his limits to take down foes more powerful than himself, and goku is anything but a purely moral character, he regularly puts himself and other people in danger because he thinks it sounds fun, at least from dragon ball to mid Z, in the Cell and Buu stuff that kinda slows down, but it's still kinda there.
Equally annoying tho, I think, is how Goku has kinda been turned into a more fight happy version of Superman, because that kinda misses the point of goku as much as any evil superman misses the point of superman. it's a cool idea, maybe a little what-if thing, but that's just not who they are. Goku is a selfish, naive family man who wants to punch strong guys, making him a hero out of nowhere ignores the poison in him: that lust for a good fight and the lengths he's willing to go to in order to get one is what makes Dragon ball, Dragonball.
TL;DR - I like Superman being a boy-scout and Goku being a dumbass who just really likes punching guys.
Great stuff man.
Man, them using the Destruction of Krypton music in the background while Superman is telling Van-El that isn't real is just...heartbreaking. And that little "I'll never forget" he says to his son at the end...
Bro...who's chopping up onions in here?
To this day this scene never fails to make me emotional!😭
Oh, sorry, that was the onion juice forming in my eyes from my heartstrings being mercilessly tugged.
The I can’t believe you left this to live on a farm line is actually WAY darker than you think, because he did leave krypton and ended up on a farm. You could even say that its apart of his subconscious mind trying in someway to remind of his old life, of earth. Dark.
To answer Shady's question on who Loana was supposed to be, it was a mix of the two girls, Lois Lane and Lana Lang, meaning that he had feeling for both of them but his self conscience is protraying them as one person
Plus she was animated extremely well
The part where he says goodbye to his son never really got to me until I had my own son. Now that shit gets the water works going. Even if it wasn’t real, he still experienced raising his son. The strength to let go of someone you love more than yourself is unimaginable.
I've always loved this episode. Superman was looking legit angry because for once he felt like he had his culture and people back. In the comics, Superman feels grateful to have been raised by the Kent's but always lonely because he was the only Kyptonian left (besides Supergirl). Superman shouting "Happy?" At Mongol for making him believe he had his most desired future only for him to not only realize it was a lie but also have to be the one to destroy it, I felt that anger. When he looks at the statue of his father and briefly remembers he's all that's left, I felt that longing. WW and Batman being his friends and reminding Superman that even tho he's the lost his people, he's not alone because he's got them, I felt that heart.
This is why I love Superman.
One thing I love about Timmverse Superman is he has this genuine wrath streak that so rarely comes out, but when it does, even Darkseid can't stand up to it. There are things even Superman will not tolerate.
I actually Like this episode more then the season finally. I never liked how Lex Luther beats Darkside and not Superman.
Alan Moore liked this script so much he actually allowed them to put his name on the episode. That is RARE and a true testament to Dwayne McDuffys storytelling
Mongul got an interesting ending. You can hear what sounds like screams of civilians in his dream of the Black Mercy.
You can tell it's the same exact scenario that he figured Superman was having, which was a nice touch. Kinda weird for a bad guy like him to get a happy ending even though it's fake.
Well wasn't it implied that the black mercy eventually killed him?
The comic described his dream as vaporizing Robin who was Wonder Woman's stand-in after deflecting the Black Mercy, ripping off Superman's head and watching his eyes roll back in their sockets, and conquering the rest of the universe
Think he’s still in the fortress?
some fates are worse than death.
A guided cage is still a cage
I experienced severe whiplash going from choking up at Clark and Bruce in their Black Mercy prisons to cracking up at the free Black Mercy "Tell me what you want" joke. Thank you for that as well as the Pa Kent easter egg and Superman defence.
I didn't break when Kal-El said goodbye to Van, but I broke when Bruce cheered for his father.
I find it ironic how Bruce Wayne sees Superman as the “the man who has everything” when pretty much everyone on the league I think would pretty much agree that Batman is the literal definition of “man who has everything”
Loving parents?
@@floricel_112 hey Alfred’s still there
Except parents...
"The grass always looks greener on the neighbors yard"
In the DCAU, sons who *don't* hate his guts (for arguably valid reasons)
I truly think the one word to truly describe Superman that nobody uses is... sacrifice. He has given and lost so much in order to do what's right. Even upon his own happiness.😢
What's so messed up is that Batmans happiest world isn't even a full life with his parents. He just imagines Joe Chill being beaten down. He can't even imagine a happy world beyond that moment.
I’ve always thought about this, is Batman content with a life of violence or seeing his father finally be the hero?
Yes.@@AndreNitroX
I wish in the Bruce Timmverse Batman would've confronted Joe Chill.
@@Shrapnel82 I respectfully disagree; on many occasions, Bruce Wayne tries to hang up the Batman suit. He funds the police, wanting things to improve so that one day, he is no longer needed as Batman. Each villain and hero within the Batman universe, as far as I know, is a different tragedy, and trying to deal with their inner demons. edit: I think that he can't get past the trauma of what happened, and he uses that to keep his focus and to keep being the Batman, I think it even was mentioned in an episode or two.
@@AndreNitroX More like Bruce despises Joe Chill so much for what he did that seeing his father, one of Joe Chill's victims, not back down and beat the shite out of him would be a dream come true for him. This way, Bruce still has his parents and Joe Chill gets what he deserves.
In a lot of Superman iterations, When someone he loves is killed, that can put him on the path to evil, but that's exactly what happens in this episode. He looses his home and family. Sure they technically weren't real, but he admits it himself that he remembers every moment of their lives together and he had to look into his own child's eyes and say goodbye forever. Even if his son wasn't real, the experience of holding him until he was gone was real to Clark. Afterwards he's so furious with Mongul that he nearly beats him to death for putting him through that until he's reminded not to dishonor the memories of the real home and family he lost by becoming someone they wouldn't be proud of.
This version of Superman really showcases his strength. That even after immense heartbreak he won't abandon his values.
Van’s death never really got to me until last year…. I lost someone very dear to me and it destroyed my world for a good while. I decided to rewatch this episode and it helped me through the grieving process. I was Superman in that scene. Powerless to help the one I loved and didn’t want to let them go. His strength, his pain, and his anger in the following scenes really helped me connect with him. And the final scene on him looking optimistic in the future, helped me believe that everything will get better.
I’m in a better place now and I think I wouldn’t have made it here without those around me and this episode
Holy sh-! I never noticed the voice-change! Thanks for pointing that out. This is one of my FAVORITE JLU episode because its so emotional and like the original story from the comics it just really gets to me.
WHen Mogul says "It must've been like tearing off your own arm." I was like... wow.. that is horrifyingly accurate.
Kudos for it'sjustsomerandomguy snippet.
Superman isn't boring..
Superman represents the ideal of what we strive to be everyday. The best versions of ourselves.
Plato once said "The worth of a man is what he does with power." Superman is not boring, he's an exciting character. He chooses to be a hero and struggle with it because that's who he is. "I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control." - Superman
11:30 I'll be honest. For how dark and brooding batman is, I like how in his preferred fantasy version of reality, papa Wayne beat up the burglar in the most comic book hero fashion while lil Bruce watched excitedly
11:37 that hit so hard in the hart
Superhero appreciation shady is best shady. Also, the Black Mercy singing "Tell me what you want" made me giggle
That episode had to be one of the most emotional. I still remember how hard it really hits.
To date, this is the only adaptation of Alan Moore’s work that Alan Moore actually likes
Well, this and Saturday Morning Watchmen
@@lordofthepizzapie9319 Alan Moore hates all of his other adaptations he needs to get his priorities straight
8:30 When your heroes were just good people. And your central villain is a legit bad person you want to see fall. And you can do it without them being silly.
Superman is a great character especially in justice league tas universe. We see how much he has to struggle to both gain the trust of the people and regain it after he was brain washed to take over metropolis. Lose allies like Hamilton who while a jerk you can see how him and the Cadmus group fear how easily super heroes could take over the world(white outfit superman)
This episode shows that superman would want a life at home and for his family to be alive. Mongol did something so horrible and thats to batman as well. He could have broken them both in that episode
The reason people call Superman boring, isn't because of the character of Superman itself, its mostly because of how many bad writers have had their chance to write stories for Superman, and then basically those stories becoming well known enough, that everyone basically knows about them, and they get no desire or interest to learn more about the character, just because they got that information and opinion from second hand, and not because they arrived at it by themselves, because when I have shown my friends and colleagues good stories about Superman, such as the one with All Star Superman, or some of the episodes for the animated series or even JL or JL Unlimited, they actually ended up liking the character, and wondered why so many people were negative about the character, when they had a good time being entertained and one even found the Superman from Justice League Action, very memeable just because of how chill they made Superman in that series.
Its also funny how some of those people that hate Superman, have no issues whatsoever with characters like Saitama or even All Might, who basically borrow elements from Superman's whole thing, and often times tell a lot of folks to watch One Punch Man or My Hero Academia, and while those stories are good and can be very entertaining, I rather be humbled with stories where they show how Superman is tested and demonstrates how to be the true symbol for heroism, all while being a regular farmer guy at heart who ends up doing good in the world, while trying to leave humanity to do their own thing when he could have been on top of them, unlike all those horrible stories about how Superman "snaps" like Injustice and all that stuff that just doesn't understand the character.
This episode always reminded me of that one episode of BTAS where Batman was put into an "ideal world" by the Mad Hatter where his parents were alive and Bruce was engaged to Selina Kyle.
That was a great episode
Oh yeah
There's also the tie-in comic The Batman and Robin Adventures issue 17, also featuring the Mad Hatter complete with him having a fate similar to Mongul's.
This episode hit me HARD as a kid, to give up your ideal reality to do what needs to be done. Just hearing you talk about it got me choked up, and I haven't seen this episode in 10 years. Amazing analysis as always, Shady. Excuse me while I find my tissues.
I agree with the final statement. I've heard the "How can I get into a character who can beat everybody with ease" and I have to tell them that they clearly have never read Superman or understand the character. Superman is still my favorite superhero. He is such a great character and has amazing stories.
There also exist people who see Superman's "godhood" as the core aspect of his character, that THAT is what he likes the most, and they borderline worship that version.
In truth, and the episode actually shows this, Clark Kent's dream life is to live a simple, happy life with people he loves.
Basically, most people think like Lex Luthor, and believe it's impossible that someone with Superman's powers doesn't have some alterior movtive and genuinely wants to help people.
I've set it before, and I'll say it again. Why can we not get more of this Superman in this day and age? I mean, we kind of have that with "My Adventures with Superman," but still.
Watch Superman Unbound
@TMF979Resurge Don't worry, I have. 😁
@@FeliDJrah If you want an example That easily balances the god-like superhero and humble reporter Who honestly could do entirely without all of it and instead uses all of his power and gifts responsibly, I think that's a shiny one
8:59 is why I've always thought of Wonder Woman to be the Chaotic Good of the Trio
Despite being a Vigilante, I can't see Batman as Chaotic Good. He could be considered lawful because he obeys a strict code of justice, but it's easy to label him as Chaotic Good because he operates outside of the law. It doesn't stop him from working with the police when need be. It really depends on the writer.
12:10 and remember, "world of cardboard." He's STILL holding back.
Superman is my all time favorite superhero already. He’s both relatable and aspirational. Specifically, I mean the post-Crisis pre-Flashpoint Superman.
I like to think that Bruce _immediately_ snapped out of it because he recognized Wonder Woman's voice and had the willpower to wake up. Batman seems like the kind of character to be able to catch on when something isn't real. It was too good to be true and he probably knew that.
Plus, it might be because the Black Mercy wasn't on him as long as it was on Clark, therefore it's hold wasn't as strong yet, if it had been on him a little longer, it would have been a different story.
Also, yes, Diana's voice definitely played a part, also goes to show how close their relationship was, AND makes the fact that they didn't end up together all the more sad.
My head cannon, on top of this, is that Bruce was about to, but then he saw the alley and his dad beating the mugger, "No wait, just for a little bit."
In the original comic, it was actually Robin that stopped mongul.
One of Jason's few dubs as Robin
Arguably, switching the role to Wonder Woman is better. In a lore sense, since Jason Todd doesn't exist (or at least never became Robin) all while Tim Drake seems to be busy on Gotham City offscreen, then the creators had to be ingeniously resourceful and give the moment to WW.
And in a catharsis sense, seeing WW have the last laugh against the misogynistic Mongul... oh-hoh, the victory is so sweet!!!
12:05 because, like the Joker, he's done his damage. Even if Supes beats him to a soup now, Mongul still accomplished his goal of making him suffer and lose everything he's held dear, even as a fabrication
Dude. You’ve gotta review the Cadmus arc in this show. It’s a masterpiece 🙌🏻
I really want a Wonder Woman cartoon.
That would be so awesome.
Dc, get on that shit!
Gunn's working on it
I'm still sad we never got that during the heyday of DC animated cartoons. And the Flash, a Saturday morning cartoon about Justice League's Flash would have been awesome. But alas, we never got it.
not a good idea today. too much potential to be corrupted by the feminazi agenda
@@keithharrissuwignjo2460será una de las amazonas no de diana
I'm REALLY excited for Shady to talk about Billy Batson. This show was my introduction to Captain Marvel and I adore Billy
Fun Fact: This comic this episode is adapting was the first time Superman used his heat vision as a weapon
God, this episode is so good. Batman might be a tortured soul, but I feel like deep down, Clark still feels that there's something missing, something he'll never have.
2 things I wanna say to Shady:
#1: Having "Wannabe" by Spice Girls be the theme of the dream granting parasite was hilarious.
#2: I wanna thank you Shady for showing what makes DC heroes awesome. For a long time I was a Marvel fan who didn't have any interest in DC comics. But seeing a fan express why he loves Justice League and other DC heroes has given me a newfound respect and interest for DC stuff.
9:45 Holy shit! I’ve never noticed that!
I love this episode so much, too, and the storytelling and adaption of Alan Moore's comic issue of the same name are absolutely masterful; you genuinely feel the pain of Clark losing what could've been a paradise for him and see the desperate and undying attempts to help Clark by Bruce and Diana which indeed prove how much they care about him as a teammate and deep personal friend, which I love to see from the DC Trinity. I also never noticed that switch in Jor-El and Pa Kent's voices, which I really like since it is sort of an application that Clark's subconscious is seeping through since deep down, even if Jor-El is the biological father, he wishes he could've known, Pa Kent still is and always be the father that raised Clark and loved him, so, of course, he's still going to have some part of him stick with him.
BTW I know this is a nitpick, but though Wonder Woman doesn't have a code against killing, she rarely resorts to killing as she does believe in man's world and potential and believes in the ideals of love and compassion to truly help the world and try and help those who need it since Wonder Woman, much like Batman, Flash or Superman does try to help some of her rogues gallery of villains and tries to save them like Cheetah, Silver Swan etc...
Much like Aquaman, if Wonder Woman believes you're a big enough threat she will not hesitate to take you out permanently, however it's almost always as a last resort.
I'm so happy that people are starting to appreciate Superman again. I've gone on countless rants about it with my friends and now both you and Red from Overly Sarcastic have my back, lol.
A lesser-known comic character is the Phantom, who did have an animated series based on a comic book series called Phantom 2040. The Phantom is lesser-known in the US, but he's very popular in India and parts of Africa, but mainly in India. The Phantom's themes are varied, but the biggest one I've noticed is the importance of legacy and familial responsibilities. The Phantom did have a live-action movie back in the 1990s just titled "The Phantom," and it starred Billy Zane in the title role and the way they addresses things in the Phontom's lore and with the Phantom we are following is actually pretty novel; at least by superhero standards. The Phantom actually set the standard for masked heroes after him; he was the first hero to have pure white where his eyes were supposed to be on the mask, which Batman followed suit on, and you'll actually notice quite a few parallels between The Phantom and Batman, but the Phantom actually predates him, his first comic aired in February of 1937, let that sink in for a moment; he also has a creed and code, one that is mirrored by the Batman we know now.
He's also very popular in Australia, I have inherited about 50odd Years worth of collections from both my Late Father and Maternal Grandfather
Phantom had a game on the SNES
I actually remember the Phantom. I actually had his ring when I was in elementary school. Can't remember how I got it though. Only knew what it was because of the animated series and the movie!
@@nemoisnobody I'm guessing it was the Skull ring, the Phantom actually has 2 rings, the skull ring on one hand and a different ring referred to as "the good mark" on the other hand.
For giving its Just some random guy a shout out, you get my eternal thanks. That is the only man on the internet who could write the DCMU crossover and make it work.
11:50 When Superman gets that angry you half expect the theme of George Newbern's other most famous role to play--i.e. "One Winged Angel."
I agree about the bad guy thing. These days everybody wants the bad guy to be super deep and complex and have some crazy backstory. When really sometimes it’s cool just to have a bad guy who’s bad for the sake of being bad
Yeah, I agree. And as an aspiring writer, making a villain that's just a straight up villain that LIKES being a villain is actually a lot of fun. They don't need a heartbreaking reason or some troubled backstory. It's just who and how they are and they enjoy it.
I'm sure Mongul has a deep and nuanced reason why he's an asshole. He's still an asshole though.
@@Joker-dn5xsagreed. Good luck with your writing.
@@scionixx9568
Thanks for the encouragement.
One of my favorite episodes of the DCAU that has my favorite versions of Batman and Superman.
This episode is great and is one of the best adaptions from the original comic.
8:00 Good lord do I hate 'relatable villians' all the time too
Like, sometimes a good Villian can be totally despicable and you just wanna see them socked in the face while also enjoying the ensuing Hero vs Villian encounter
Shady so happy to see another one of your videos keep up the good work
5:49 😂😂😂
I that “Tell me what you want” edit was fantastic. Also, I can’t believe you didn’t get the feels when Superman had to leave the simulation.
Mongul is REALLY great as a villain in this episode, and holy smokes this episode is fan-flippin-tastic.
This episode is such an emotional gut punch, and that scene hits me right in the feels. Also... don't mind me while I pause the episode... I'm having an attack of The Feels right now. This is about as emotional as listening to the Muppets sing their farewell to Jim Henson.
Just... yeah. Writing half this good would have kept the MCU and DCCU going for DECADES, especially if movies were about twice a year.
EDIT: ...Okay, that music choice is both inspired and also obnoxious... and obnoxiously funny. Good job!
Yeah he should have been the villain of Superman Returns instead of Lex Luther and his real estate scam
There's also the fact that, in a lot of Superman stories, if Superman *did* push the limit and do what a lot of anime protagonists did, it would be seen as a horrible thing to do. Because Superman's power *is* infinite. Yet the main message in his story is how humanity as a whole has the power to be better. If Superman truly became the god he is capable of being, then he proves all the skeptics right. Superman has to actively limit his power and solve problems without the use of his super strength simply because it's about the hope that simply doing the right thing is enough.
Also they couldn’t sell more stories if he just solved everything himself too quick
Superman's power isn't infinite. AT best, it can rise infinitely as long as he has solar energy to absorb, and isn't using it to power his super powers but he isn't infinite. Death Battle was wrong about that and its infuriating that the first Superman vs Goku gave people a lot of misconceptions about the character. If he was infinite, he would have one shot Doomsday their first meeting.
I love how this episode did Superman's waking up versus the comic. In there, he has an earth-shattering scream of pure rage, yelling Mongul's name. Here, he just... blinks. You see his face as he realizes the truth. A flash of sadness. Then determination. And he takes a while to turn around because he has trouble keeping all the anger inside.
This episode is proof why artist should avoid putting clips of an episode in a intro, because of potential spoilers.
I've had this episode on my Xbox 360 for way past the decade and it's still one of the best episodes ever
Another really good review, Shady. This episode is one of many that made me tear up, and still does to this day.
Also, in regards to that bit about Death Battle, they also made the point that Superman's story is about a god trying to live among mortals, which is something else that people seemed to overlook with Superman
Bro please do "this little piggy" Diana and Bruce are SO CUTE in it and it really captures their friendship with Bruce's soft side towards his friends 🫶🏻
Personally I always thought of 2 reasons for Diana being able to break Bruce out of the black mercy were 1) Bruce has actually already had an episode in the original show where he had seen his life without his parents dying on that tragic night, and 2) at this time Diana is the one person je is romantically connected to fully, without that night no batman and no meeting Diana, the person he currently loves is not something he can imagine without that night. Unlike Clark who sees the brighter side easily therefore having his cake and eatting it with his wife in the krypton paradise Bruce has everything tied to not only that moment but that act, his mind is split in a way between the good he has now and what he could have had because of that moment.
Goes to show how much he loves her ❤
5:52 That was a realy good joke
Superman has never been boring. The fantasy of Superman is that the man with all the power in the universe just wants to be one of us and to help us selflessly. The fantasy is that we have a role model who embodies the best of us and who wants nothing more than to have a family and for us to be safe and free to pursue our interests.
It's the reason "evil Superman" stories are boring. A man who has all the power and wants to oppress us with it isn't a fantasy. It's a stone's throw away from real life.
Also, thank you for covering this episode. Easily one of my favorite episodes in JLU. Going on that emotional roller coaster of a ride with Superman and watching him give Mongul exactly what the tyrant had coming is satisfying every time. The way he yells "BURN" gives me, perhaps ironically, chills.
Those who make the "evil superman" story, most of the time, embody what the Green Goblin in Spider-Man said:
"But the one thing that they like more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying."
I love your content so much my guy. I love that you revisit these classic nostalgic cartoons and give them a modern critique. It makes the fact we were all kids and how we grew up as adults that we can still cherish these memories and view it critically
14:58 I used to think that about Superman, and heroes like him, but *Overly Sarcastic Productions-Red* opened my eyes, and what I saw after confirmed it.
Trapping someone in their perfect dream world is possibly one of the worst things a villain can do. Having everything you ever wanted then eventually waking up to potentially a cruel reality
9:00 not even just "if she deems it necessary". Sometimes it's just anger getting the better of her and she has to be reigned in by her colleagues.
Most versions if Comic Diana fit the "if she deems necessary" bill. I know fans of her were unhappy with her DCAU version for reasons such as that.
@@kelpietales4503 i like it, personally. If I was demigoddess who grew up among the amazons raised as a warrior princess for centuries, I too would probably have some anger issues if fighting is all I ever knew. Plus, it gives her a flaw that she has to overcome as part of her character arc
And yet she’s also the one who’d be the first to offer her enemy an open hand. It’s a great dichotomy. She’s willing to put them down if she has to, but not before trying her damnedest to turn them. I recently read a comic where she fought the Phantom Stranger over the soul of Paula von Gunther, a woman raised to despise WW with every fiber of her being, and had just been trying to kill her and all Amazons. But Diana still fights tooth and nail to give her a chance for redemption because she’s just that awesome.
To be fair, Death Battle rectified this in the 3rd match up between Goku and Superman and acknowledged that Superman's strength in his character and why both he and Goku are icons for their genre even show casing Clark's character moments within the battle itself instead of treating him like an action figure
I swear, the timing of Shady, I just turned on Superman the Animated Series as this vid comes up, though mine was World’s Finest.