I prefer Hank and Janet's relationship in this show over the comics by making Hank a pacifist who only resorts to violence when he has to and Janet into a hyperactive and optimistic comic relief is the probably one of the best things to come from the characters.
@@bowserbreaker2515comments like these makes me wonder if people can actually read. Without using that one panel by the hack Shooter, tell me when Hank has been abusive. Aside from the fact that he was having a mental breakdown during that time Hank still never mentally recovered from striking Janet, he also almost committed su*cide over it, hell he only stopped cause someone stopped him. A lot of people will be all for "we need more superheroes to have mental breakdowns" until a superhero has a mental breakdown and is weaponized against the character specifically because people can never bring up another one, it's pretty simple to admit that you have no knowledge of the character or even that run. As much as I hate JS, he didn't even want Hank to strike her on PURPOSE, the artist just took it wrong.
@@bowserbreaker2515 not denying that, but it gets me frustrated every time when people try to frame Hank as a wife beater when that’s not the case at all.
It interesting how they set up his philanthropy as sort of a compensation for his growing *_misanthropy_* that became crystal clear when Ultron was trained on his brain. He was so burnt out by the world and so scared (rightfully or unrightfully so) that his tech would be used to hurt humanity, that he started to... dislike _humanity._
When you look at how humans act in Marvel specifically they're awful people. Marvel is ironically so advanced yet stuck in modern times that it honestly doesn't make any sense anymore. Like everything is valid yet nothing changes. That would cause anybody to start to hate humans.
His tech was an extension of him? Makes Ultron seem like a child that came from a troubled household. Taking on what his dad had and continuing the cycle with being ultramisanthropic.
It gets even worse when you read the comics this storyline is based off of. Hank was confirmed diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And you can kinda see the same symptoms plaguing him in the show. Extreme highs and lows depicted by grandiose self opinion and depression. Loss of interest in topics and subjects like quitting the avengers. Episodes of extreme frustration and difficulty focusing. Even extreme strains and shifts in libido and intimate relationships. All the symptoms are there.
It is a very good show and may have done some better than the movies but you could find comics that have done any of these characters better. The show's real strength is that it does so many different characters so well at once.
@@Ajay-vm5kz You mean, as depicted in EMH? If so, that’s really strange, because in both mythology and comicbooks, Thor was, as far as I remember, the uncontested mightiest of the Aesir (Asgardians).
@@AnAverageGoblinnot really, a lot of comic book stuff is both really dumb and also doesn’t work when you’ve got one movie to do it in. It’s the big reason why you almost never get reoccurring villains, scheduling these people is difficult for one film, trying to get them for as many as possible? Never happening
Shame people found Hank such a boring character that this mistake became a hallmark of the character for decades because it was at least different than normal comic book stuff
@@PedroFerreira-ne3jvPoor Hank never got the help he needed. The Avengers pretty much abandoned him, and writers keep trying to make Hank's mistake a defining character trait.
@@PedroFerreira-ne3jvIt because lazy writer at marvel continue to bring it back up constantly. Hank has had like 4 arc of him applgizing and trying to be better.The reason a lot of character in comic have no growth is due to writer ruining there growth cause they write them without actually reading there history. Marvel and DC need better editor who will put there foot down on stories when they betray a character growth.
Writers: " we want hank to set his hand on Janet's shoulder and gently walk past her." Artists: "Domestic Abuse... got it." Writers, fans, execs, people who have no idea what happened behind the scene: 😳 I wish I was kidding but this is pretty close to what one of the conversations between the writing team and the art team (heavily paraphrased)
I appreciate that EMH had the balls to go through with hank leaving, a lesser show would have made him change his mind when Thor turned out to be alive, but the point stands that even if Thor survived it still happened and he COULD have died, since Ultron was basically a messed up copy of Hank without common sense or compassion.
Agreed hank in this show is truly complex because despite being a good man he does not want to be a superhero and once he realizes the avengers don’t see his view he sees no point in staying with them.
The way this show handled The Workoholic Tendencies of Hank Pym is so Heart Breaking 💔 Pym underslept, barely eats, misthreat hsi love-ones thinking he would ave the world BUT UNFURTUNATELY his end project accidentally caused so many harm
I would rather have a comic book continuation with Chris Yost as head writers so he has more creative control. He did a great job with the tie-in comics. Felt like it was ripped straight out of the show.
Kinda annoyed at how they selectively push nostalgia. I'd have taken Wolverine and the X-men just getting a chance to close that cliffhanger with one more season over 97 any day. Or a spectacular Spider-Man continuation now that Disney and Sony are buddy buddy. Or a freaking EMH continuation. X-men is the animated series probably needed it the least but it has more nostalgia.
Considering pym is bipolar, it would be amazing character building to say that the reason Hank is such a pacifist and wants to rehabilitate them is because he himself has gone through mental struggles that caused him to be seen as a bad guy by those around him and probably was around other with illnesses that were damaging themselves and those around them and those events lead to him want to rehabilitate people that probably were in a simular situation that he was once in life
It's important to remember that Hank diagnosed *himself* as bipolar and started treating himself with lithium compounds he synthesized himself because he considers himself at least as smart as any of the psychiatrists that he'd met up to that point. That sounds to me like Hank has a deeply ingrained sense of superiority and a grandiose "I alone can fix the world" mentality. No wonder Ultron 5 went bugnuts. Wally Wingert did an amazing job portraying Hank as a man whose voice is perpetually stuck on "condescending".
@@JDog2656 -- MCU Tony definitely. Without Hank in the original lineup those traits got moved over to Tony. With Hank around, the focus on Tony can shift to stuff like his alcoholism and being a foil and benefactor for the other Avengers.
I love the MCU's choice to highlight Scott Lang, but when it comes to Hank Pym, this show definitely gave us his definitive version, and this video showcases it so well!
He was definitely a stand out of the show and it was definitely a high point for the character. Seriously, that moment when he confronts the Avengers and say "I joined to help people, not to punch the mentally ill in the face" that was so novel that it made me kind of love him.
I truly love what this show does with Hank Pym as a character since a lot of people associate Hank as a toxic person based on the comics, while yes the character has done a lot of messed up things, that are fairly unforgivable, but Hank in this show is a flawed character, but isn't downright villain or abusive person. Hank tries to help these villains and attempt to rehabilitate them in a more humane way that you don't usually see other heroes do, and despite his noble intentions, thais method won't always work for every villain. They knew that when it came to Hank they had to balance his introverted passive beliefs with his deeply flawed mental state and how we actually sympathise with him and see him struggling after everything that's happened with him especially after Ultron and seeing him lose himself and become Yellow Jacket was sad since weve grown to appreciate his character, even if Yellow Jacket is an identity Hank accepts as who he is now ans its not necessarily a bad thing, just makes him more of a jaded realist but still willing to good and help people.
I still kind of hated him in the show. He takes pacifism to such an absurd extreme that he doesn't recognize the value of stopping super powered murderers before they can hurt someone. Sure, he'll put on the suit and punch a Wrecker. But then he'll spend the whole ride back to the mansion whining about how he's supposed to be reforming villains not beating them up. More than once he got in the way and let villains escape because he wanted to talk them down. I can see why this Ultron went nuts when his programming is based on Hank's brain. Also, his absolute refusal to ever admit his feelings for Janet or pay attention to her was infuriating. She's adorable in this series and practically throwing herself at him but the man can't even squeeze out one "I love you" through the whole series. Hulk had a better relationship with Janet than Hank did.
@@MrDj232for real tho, Janet deserved so much more from him. Of course, no one owes love to no one, but we see that he loves her right in the first scene they share, as soon as she enters his lab he's already smiling, and he lets her hug him, despite the fact that he's usually a very closed-off guy, so he DID owe her some honesty about his feelings and about their relationship
Glad that EMH was able to adapt Hank Pym. I feel the reason why many people have issue with him isn't bc of the incident where he hit Janet but rather how Marvel treated that event in following years, acting like Pym was always a unlikabe wife-beater instead of man struggling with his inferiority complex (ultimate universe being the biggest exemple). Having Hank being a pacifist that is forced to adapt to the violence in his job was clever idea, and makes Pym fall from grace even more tragic. It also work as harsh lesson for the Avengers, specially Janet. After all they were ones who criticize Pym for trying to being too pacifist and now they have to see their friend become someone they barely know. Wanting to a person to deal with flaws is understantable, but it should never be at cost of the person's positive aspects. There's need to have balance between what person knows and what he/she will learn.
Hank was never a “wife beater” to begin with, and people take that out of context a lot. Specially because he was having a mental breakdown when he hit Jan, and he never mentally recovered from it and almost committed suic*de over it and only stopped because someone stopped him. Also adding that JS did not want Hank to hit her on purpose, the artist took it the wrong way.
@@sonnypark124 I know. Sadly Marvel just saw the out of context and exploit it, constantly bring this event up in following story that end up creating this misguided image readers have on the character, without the knowloge of the full story and his arc about fall and rebirth.
The Ultimates did so much for shock value that I think it overshadows a lot of the actual characters. I don't actually know what Wanda and Pietro's relationship is like in most of their mainline stories. But I do know they went full Lannister in The Ultimates. Hank Pym was a monster in that run. Tony's addictive personality was cranked up to 11. They flanderized these characters so much that it redefined several of them in the public eye.
@@MrDj232 They also turned Bruce Banner, one the most sympathetic character in comics, into a incel and the Hulk into a horney cannibal. The only characters I felt were likable were Thor and Captain America (in the case of Steve his behavior fits with the time period he comes from. I also appreciate they let Bucky live through the war and become Cap's mentor in the modern day, reversing their dynamic).
EMH was really something special. It gave us the best version of so many characters. Here we've got hank pym, janet van dyne is just as good to, this is probably my favorite version of the hulk, and while I love david aja's hawkeye I think this show did a great job of making clint barton a bonafide badass. And for villains at the very least we have the best kang in this show. And these arent the only good characters, there aren't any characters i don't like, but there are probably better versions somewhere. Like the big three obviously, but also characters like Black Panther and Captain Marvel who i like the most in this show but i also havent read any of their comics. Its such a shame we didnt get more of this show, ir that it got the recognition it deserved.
EMH is to the Avengers what X-MEN'97 is to the X-Men, and what Spectacular is to Spider-Man. Now, if we could get an X-Men and an Avengers movie that were to them what Spiderverse is to Spidey, we'd have it all
@@olefredrikskjegstad5972 EMH was the last animated show of the 2000's style of writing and storytelling which people (mostly) prefer. I say this because EMH is followed by Ultimate Spider-Man, Avengers Assemble, Agents of SMASH, and yadda yadda. These shows might have some charming aspects or moments, but they don't hold up as well or can stand the test of time like most 2000's Marvel animated shows.
"bUt hAnK pYm Is A tErrIbLE chArActEr bEcAUsE hE rEfUsEs tO fIght EvEn thOUgh hE's pArt Of A sUpErhErO tEaM." -The Blockbuster Buster Also, it would be nice if people stopped labeling the 616 Hank Pym as a wife beater, since even the people who worked behind the scenes on that particular issue stated that it was all an error in translation. It's certainly not helped by the matter being brought up during the time when Hank was fused with Ultron a few years back, or the "Look just how edgy we are" Ultimate universe existing.
Not enough people talk about Hank and Jan in this show, or even just in general... which makes the few times people _do_ talk about them so much better.
EMH had my favorite versions of so many characters. Hank, Janet, Wasp, T'Challa, Carol. They didn't miss with characterization on this show. It's my favorite Avengers anything.
@@dillbert4084 my favorite version is Hawkeye, dude had charisma and was (at least in my opinion) a leader of the team. He always came in clutch to save the team and he ever recruited the hulk.
@rapaz1997 My first exposure to Hawkeye was in the Next Avengers heroes of Tomorrow movie. While he doesn't acrually appear, you get to know a lot about him through the way others talked about him and the impacts of his actions. Hawkeye from Avengers: EMH matches up perfectly with that version. Capable of surviving a post apocalyptic world. Compassionate and a great leader tha's capable of leading a group of survivors. Would punch Stark in the face and then help him, definitely.
I think the aspect I love most about this interpretation, besides literally everything, is that even though (Thankfully) they removed the abuser aspect of the character he still has a dark aspect to him from the beginning. Like not maliciously but there is this nice chipperness to him that is completely unaware of how terrifying he is. Like at the start he kept his villains shrunken in a miniature jail and would pin them under his finger if they go too far or is confused why anyone would be scared of the countless robot aids he has stating “I gave them the heads of ants how is that not comforting”. It’s both kinda funny and really helps show how he could turn to Yellowjacket, like there was a secret darkness to him that regardless of how kind he truly is, was still there
This show could've easily skipped Hank given his state in the comics back then. Kinda how DCAU did with Hal and Barry. But man do i love it how it instead tackles the problem head on and decided to reinvent Antman and then deconstruct his character. Giving us a compelling arc from a pacifist Scientist to a loose canon vigilante.
Im a guy who doesn't usually care about superhero stuff but i really like listening to you talk about it. Good job, your passion is commendable And inspiring. God bless
This will be a weird comparison, but EMH Hank Pym is what Beast Machines Silverbolt was supposed to be: a noble man who has a strict moral code & conduct, but is later revealed they do like being a more gray figure. This brakes them mentally and it takes them a while to recover, and even then they don’t do so fully.
In the first draft of the live action Avengers script, the founding lineup from the comics was the one they were initially going to go with before they went in a different direction. I wish they did keep the comic book accurate line up but Hollywood always has its own ideas.
Because He prioritzes Peak animation over the mundane live action projects, Unfurtuantely most people don't, But I'm glad people Like the owner of this channel give the animation the Value it Deserves
A relationship with an adult Hank that almost feels like teenagers makes sense, considering he is someone who does not have his multiple mental issues completely handled, speaking as someone who might have finally gotten a better handle on their own issues. A thing I really dislike from the.comics is... the fans and "fans." Hank hitting Janet is obviously not okay, but is obviously not okay and unforgivable as an act in itself, but it is also understandable and shouldn't make him unforgivable as a person. He done fucked up, but he also learned and changed.... at least in the well written stories after that one, which was also a good story. But as with many good things in comics, the aftermath is a buncha idiots (including creators, specially creators) clinging just to the most superficial and visually impressive elements, and ignoring all the equally important subtler ones. The story everyone reinforces/remembers is "Hank beat his wife one time, bad Hank bad", rather than "Hank had a really bad time and fucked up so badly he even hit his wife, and then had to learn and grow as a person to overcome that, but his previous poor self control in the face of an overwhelming personal crisis was not without lasting consequences, such as Jan divorcing him for good; let it be a lesson, try as best as you can to seek help early before too late". The later is great tragic storytelling for all involved even if imo it does end up relatively positively given how low it all went, but the constant pushing of the former really hurts uis character.
I relate to Ant-Man the most, mostly due to the fact he's the more introverted member of the Avengers. He's got a good heart and tries to see the good in people, and has a very strong conscience. His shock and horror at his own creation killing someone he cared about speaks volumes of this.
Does it seem like a weird coincidence to anyone else that when Hank Pym designed his Yellow Jacket gear, he chose to make it very similar to the gear Janet uses as the Wasp? I'm personally thinking that Hank may have based the gear of his Yellow Jacket persona off of Janet's Wasp to a degree and adapted some elements to suit his preferences.
I bet if the show didn’t got canceled, we would’ve gotten Science Guy Hank Pym. Not only does Hank find his place in the Avengers (being the Mastermind of The Team) but he would also get back his love for his science. He would’ve still been a major help for the Avengers without resorting to violence against the bad guys.
This is my favorite version of antman too, they even introduce Scott lang in this as well. But hank pym was such a complex hero to me as a kid. He kind of frustrated me with not being willing to join the fight, but now I understand he was a pacifist at heart and always wanted to find a peaceful way to end fights even if it was unconvenventional.
Except passivism is a mental rejection of the reality of the world: some people could care less about talking and just wanna fight. It's great to try to resolve a conflict without violence, but more often then not its just not going to happen and you shouldn't get too bent out of shape about it.
You know if Avengers: EMH had continued there were some plans tossed around to have the team visit a dark future where Ultron took over the world. This show definitely feels like a prequel to that movie.
I've never been the biggest fan of Ant-Man, so this is easily my favorite. He just keeps getting bad adaptations, except for this show. It still is a little weird though for him to be a pacifist superhero.
Yes yes yes!! I agree with everything you said! From how this is truly the best adaptation of Hank Pym to how also this is the best Ultron as well. Glad to see love for this show, it was truly a shame when it got cancelled.
As a kid I used to watch this show until it eventually stopped airing where I was from, or I simply missed every time it did after the fact, and one of the last things I saw was a tease that Ultron would either be used as a weapon or that he would turn evil, I don't remember which, which was a bit dark IMO at the time, made only worse by the fact i soon after found and watched avengers heroes of tomorrow. As a kid, I thought the 2 were directly related, with the movie being a direct sequel to the show. Only years later on a nostalgia rabbit hole did I figure out it was just a domino of coincidences that led me to think that. I do still think it would have been a very bold and kinda cool cliffhanger ending for the show, tho.
Having the adaptation of something do a plot point BETTER than the source material, is an EXTREMELY rare case. But I'm grateful that one of those rare cases was Pym & Janet's relationship in this show.
@@Venxous all I can say is that it was a sort of bucket list gig for me. I had read Comics since I was a little kid, getting to be a part of that series was a great bit of fun!
Hank reminds me of Dr. Daystrom from Star Trek. Ultron is a mix of Nomad and M-5. I couldn't get with Avengers Ultron Movie because they said Ironman made him 😐Totally omitting Antman. As if no one else is smart enough to make a lunatic Robot 🤣
This show is why I was and still am incredibly bummed that they gave us Scott Lang in the MCU. Admittedly I dont know much of anything about his comic version but while I absolutely love seeing Paul Rudd and he's incredibly entertaining, this entertainment is without fulfillment. He's a great comic relief and his relationship with his daughter is fine, but it's nothing compared to hank. We dont get to see hank and Janets relationship struggles, we barely get to see Hank being a pacifist and it's basically boiled down to him being a grumpy stubborn old man. This hank is such an incredible character, and with how popular Paul rudds take on the character is, I worry that we won't ever get to see a good hank again, at least for the foreseeable future
AEMH was, is and probably always will be the best animated version of these characters and the Avengers as a team Such a shame that it was cancelled halfway through the second season They even did some things better than the MCU, like the slow build-up to the Skrulls, just having it play on the background in season 1 to then becoming the main plot in season 2
Something to consider: when you said Janet/Hank seemed like a very teenage relationship, it reminded me that Janet was in college--she very well might have been a teenager, and Hank couldn't have been that much older. They were very much young adults in comparison to some of the other people on the team. Anyways, great video! You've got a new sub.
It's pretty depressing that the only other Avengers show that treats the cast with respect is the Disk Wars anime from 2014. Think about it: a Toyetic kids anime is more competently written than any of Disney's tie-in shows.
EMH is fantastic, and Ant Man was way better in it then the MCU, I also loved how they had magic and science combined in Wakanda, The Black Panthers glowing purple weapon was so cool. Never understood some Iron Man moments though, in the first few episodes he literally left Hawkeye behind in an exploding base despite him saving his life a second earlier which is never brought up again, that time when you brought up about Simon and other times that he was a dickhead for no real reason but I’m guessing that’s just stark
Ant man and Wasps relationship is interesting. They're methods of approaching villains aren't necessarily wrong or right. Wasp will go on head on and take action, while Ant Man will only use physical force as a last resort when trying to reach out to a villain as a means of helping doesn't work or if wasp is hurt or in danger.
not only was this the best adaptation of Hank, but also the relationship between Hank and Janet as well. also, Janet from this series was my greatest Childhood Crush lol. idgaf if it sounds weird, because she made hot af!
I never liked how Hank was written back in the early 80s. That domestic violence trope really destroyed any type of storytelling one could do with him as a character. This is why it is not good to try to be edgy just because you think it will be cool. The character was destroyed for years by marvel editorial board allowing that. I just wish the MCU Hank pym was written more like the Earth mightiest heroes Hank pym. I don't like what the MCU did to Janet. Emh got her character right.
I like this depiction alot. My favorite is still the ultimate avengers movies ant man. He was just a badass gave me human torch vibes. Maybe that’s just nostalgia speakin😂
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I prefer Hank and Janet's relationship in this show over the comics by making Hank a pacifist who only resorts to violence when he has to and Janet into a hyperactive and optimistic comic relief is the probably one of the best things to come from the characters.
I'm so glad that we can get a somewhat comic accurate depiction that doesn't have Hank beat his girlfriend.
@bowserbreaker2515 and the fact that Hank (at least during the first season) is very protective of Janet is a very nice touch to it.
@@bowserbreaker2515comments like these makes me wonder if people can actually read.
Without using that one panel by the hack Shooter, tell me when Hank has been abusive.
Aside from the fact that he was having a mental breakdown during that time
Hank still never mentally recovered from striking Janet, he also almost committed su*cide over it, hell he only stopped cause someone stopped him.
A lot of people will be all for "we need more superheroes to have mental breakdowns" until a superhero has a mental breakdown and is weaponized against the character
specifically because people can never bring up another one, it's pretty simple to admit that you have no knowledge of the character or even that run.
As much as I hate JS, he didn't even want Hank to strike her on PURPOSE, the artist just took it wrong.
@@sonnypark124 Eh, it doesn't change the fact that comic Hank is way too convoluted with his multiple personalities. EMH did it well.
@@bowserbreaker2515 not denying that, but it gets me frustrated every time when people try to frame Hank as a wife beater when that’s not the case at all.
It interesting how they set up his philanthropy as sort of a compensation for his growing *_misanthropy_* that became crystal clear when Ultron was trained on his brain. He was so burnt out by the world and so scared (rightfully or unrightfully so) that his tech would be used to hurt humanity, that he started to... dislike _humanity._
You're right. I always thought it was just Ultron Going Heywire but it turns out. It was a way of showing his Growing Misanthropy.
When you look at how humans act in Marvel specifically they're awful people. Marvel is ironically so advanced yet stuck in modern times that it honestly doesn't make any sense anymore. Like everything is valid yet nothing changes. That would cause anybody to start to hate humans.
His tech was an extension of him? Makes Ultron seem like a child that came from a troubled household. Taking on what his dad had and continuing the cycle with being ultramisanthropic.
@@harrietr.5073 Dang. That makes a terrifying amount of sense.
It gets even worse when you read the comics this storyline is based off of. Hank was confirmed diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And you can kinda see the same symptoms plaguing him in the show. Extreme highs and lows depicted by grandiose self opinion and depression. Loss of interest in topics and subjects like quitting the avengers. Episodes of extreme frustration and difficulty focusing. Even extreme strains and shifts in libido and intimate relationships. All the symptoms are there.
Earth mightiest heroes literally has the best interpretation of every character literally every character is done justice in this show
It is a very good show and may have done some better than the movies but you could find comics that have done any of these characters better. The show's real strength is that it does so many different characters so well at once.
Agree 100%, the heroes and the villains are done so perfectly in this show that to this day they are my favorite versions of the marvel characters
Because they dared to follow the source material so closely.
But Thor was kinda weak without hammer
@@Ajay-vm5kz You mean, as depicted in EMH? If so, that’s really strange, because in both mythology and comicbooks, Thor was, as far as I remember, the uncontested mightiest of the Aesir (Asgardians).
Definitely. I think the movies were just afraid of adapting the craziness of Hank Pym, but EMH adapt that is craziness so well without going too far.
the movies were afraid of a lot of things tbh.
@@AnAverageGoblinnot really, a lot of comic book stuff is both really dumb and also doesn’t work when you’ve got one movie to do it in. It’s the big reason why you almost never get reoccurring villains, scheduling these people is difficult for one film, trying to get them for as many as possible? Never happening
Fear becomes obedience. Now when Companies use that...do we have a Geneva-type code for this type of crime?
@@Assasin2 Not really, they were afraid of a lot of stuff, a shame, so much wasted potential.
@@WandererKamen A lot of unfilmable stuff
The og slap was an accident and caused by a misunderstanding between writers and artists
Shame people found Hank such a boring character that this mistake became a hallmark of the character for decades because it was at least different than normal comic book stuff
@@PedroFerreira-ne3jvPoor Hank never got the help he needed. The Avengers pretty much abandoned him, and writers keep trying to make Hank's mistake a defining character trait.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpagreed. I always hated that the slap was never retconned
@@PedroFerreira-ne3jvIt because lazy writer at marvel continue to bring it back up constantly. Hank has had like 4 arc of him applgizing and trying to be better.The reason a lot of character in comic have no growth is due to writer ruining there growth cause they write them without actually reading there history. Marvel and DC need better editor who will put there foot down on stories when they betray a character growth.
Writers: " we want hank to set his hand on Janet's shoulder and gently walk past her."
Artists: "Domestic Abuse... got it."
Writers, fans, execs, people who have no idea what happened behind the scene: 😳
I wish I was kidding but this is pretty close to what one of the conversations between the writing team and the art team (heavily paraphrased)
I appreciate that EMH had the balls to go through with hank leaving, a lesser show would have made him change his mind when Thor turned out to be alive, but the point stands that even if Thor survived it still happened and he COULD have died, since Ultron was basically a messed up copy of Hank without common sense or compassion.
Yeah, definitely
I love how the show commits to character actions. Especially season 2 where the team disbands and the characters go their own ways.
Agreed hank in this show is truly complex because despite being a good man he does not want to be a superhero and once he realizes the avengers don’t see his view he sees no point in staying with them.
The way this show handled The Workoholic Tendencies of Hank Pym is so Heart Breaking 💔
Pym underslept, barely eats, misthreat hsi love-ones thinking he would ave the world BUT UNFURTUNATELY his end project accidentally caused so many harm
I wish they brought back EMH just like they brought Back X men the animated series with X Men 97
Couldn’t agree more
I would rather have a comic book continuation with Chris Yost as head writers so he has more creative control. He did a great job with the tie-in comics. Felt like it was ripped straight out of the show.
Kinda annoyed at how they selectively push nostalgia. I'd have taken Wolverine and the X-men just getting a chance to close that cliffhanger with one more season over 97 any day. Or a spectacular Spider-Man continuation now that Disney and Sony are buddy buddy. Or a freaking EMH continuation. X-men is the animated series probably needed it the least but it has more nostalgia.
I just want Silver Surfer, it was done by far the dirtiest out of all the marvel cartoons in the 90's
@@BackyardDuelist didn't it wrap up its story?
Considering pym is bipolar, it would be amazing character building to say that the reason Hank is such a pacifist and wants to rehabilitate them is because he himself has gone through mental struggles that caused him to be seen as a bad guy by those around him and probably was around other with illnesses that were damaging themselves and those around them and those events lead to him want to rehabilitate people that probably were in a simular situation that he was once in life
You know, with Hank dealing with those struggles you'd think he'd basically be the Hulk's bestie, they have a lot in Common.
It's important to remember that Hank diagnosed *himself* as bipolar and started treating himself with lithium compounds he synthesized himself because he considers himself at least as smart as any of the psychiatrists that he'd met up to that point.
That sounds to me like Hank has a deeply ingrained sense of superiority and a grandiose "I alone can fix the world" mentality. No wonder Ultron 5 went bugnuts.
Wally Wingert did an amazing job portraying Hank as a man whose voice is perpetually stuck on "condescending".
@@Grizabeebles If that's true, he's not too dissimilar to Tony, albeit a quieter version
@@JDog2656 -- MCU Tony definitely. Without Hank in the original lineup those traits got moved over to Tony. With Hank around, the focus on Tony can shift to stuff like his alcoholism and being a foil and benefactor for the other Avengers.
I love the MCU's choice to highlight Scott Lang, but when it comes to Hank Pym, this show definitely gave us his definitive version, and this video showcases it so well!
He was definitely a stand out of the show and it was definitely a high point for the character.
Seriously, that moment when he confronts the Avengers and say "I joined to help people, not to punch the mentally ill in the face" that was so novel that it made me kind of love him.
I truly love what this show does with Hank Pym as a character since a lot of people associate Hank as a toxic person based on the comics, while yes the character has done a lot of messed up things, that are fairly unforgivable, but Hank in this show is a flawed character, but isn't downright villain or abusive person. Hank tries to help these villains and attempt to rehabilitate them in a more humane way that you don't usually see other heroes do, and despite his noble intentions, thais method won't always work for every villain. They knew that when it came to Hank they had to balance his introverted passive beliefs with his deeply flawed mental state and how we actually sympathise with him and see him struggling after everything that's happened with him especially after Ultron and seeing him lose himself and become Yellow Jacket was sad since weve grown to appreciate his character, even if Yellow Jacket is an identity Hank accepts as who he is now ans its not necessarily a bad thing, just makes him more of a jaded realist but still willing to good and help people.
Sums up exactly why I think this is the definitive version of Hank for me
I still kind of hated him in the show. He takes pacifism to such an absurd extreme that he doesn't recognize the value of stopping super powered murderers before they can hurt someone. Sure, he'll put on the suit and punch a Wrecker. But then he'll spend the whole ride back to the mansion whining about how he's supposed to be reforming villains not beating them up. More than once he got in the way and let villains escape because he wanted to talk them down. I can see why this Ultron went nuts when his programming is based on Hank's brain.
Also, his absolute refusal to ever admit his feelings for Janet or pay attention to her was infuriating. She's adorable in this series and practically throwing herself at him but the man can't even squeeze out one "I love you" through the whole series. Hulk had a better relationship with Janet than Hank did.
@@Venxous do hulk development in this show
Imma be honest- majority of the Avengers (especially Tony) have done FAR WORSE things than Hank- can we talk about that??
@@MrDj232for real tho, Janet deserved so much more from him. Of course, no one owes love to no one, but we see that he loves her right in the first scene they share, as soon as she enters his lab he's already smiling, and he lets her hug him, despite the fact that he's usually a very closed-off guy, so he DID owe her some honesty about his feelings and about their relationship
the cartoon's version of Janet is super cute.
Definitely the best adaptation of Janet!
Yes I can’t wait for her video
Glad that EMH was able to adapt Hank Pym. I feel the reason why many people have issue with him isn't bc of the incident where he hit Janet but rather how Marvel treated that event in following years, acting like Pym was always a unlikabe wife-beater instead of man struggling with his inferiority complex (ultimate universe being the biggest exemple).
Having Hank being a pacifist that is forced to adapt to the violence in his job was clever idea, and makes Pym fall from grace even more tragic. It also work as harsh lesson for the Avengers, specially Janet. After all they were ones who criticize Pym for trying to being too pacifist and now they have to see their friend become someone they barely know. Wanting to a person to deal with flaws is understantable, but it should never be at cost of the person's positive aspects. There's need to have balance between what person knows and what he/she will learn.
Hank was never a “wife beater” to begin with, and people take that out of context a lot.
Specially because he was having a mental breakdown when he hit Jan, and he never mentally recovered from it and almost committed suic*de over it and only stopped because someone stopped him.
Also adding that JS did not want Hank to hit her on purpose, the artist took it the wrong way.
@@sonnypark124 I know. Sadly Marvel just saw the out of context and exploit it, constantly bring this event up in following story that end up creating this misguided image readers have on the character, without the knowloge of the full story and his arc about fall and rebirth.
@@alexandrefrauches132 it’s really a shame because his arc of redemption both in this show and 616 is great.
The Ultimates did so much for shock value that I think it overshadows a lot of the actual characters. I don't actually know what Wanda and Pietro's relationship is like in most of their mainline stories. But I do know they went full Lannister in The Ultimates. Hank Pym was a monster in that run. Tony's addictive personality was cranked up to 11. They flanderized these characters so much that it redefined several of them in the public eye.
@@MrDj232 They also turned Bruce Banner, one the most sympathetic character in comics, into a incel and the Hulk into a horney cannibal.
The only characters I felt were likable were Thor and Captain America (in the case of Steve his behavior fits with the time period he comes from. I also appreciate they let Bucky live through the war and become Cap's mentor in the modern day, reversing their dynamic).
EMH was really something special. It gave us the best version of so many characters. Here we've got hank pym, janet van dyne is just as good to, this is probably my favorite version of the hulk, and while I love david aja's hawkeye I think this show did a great job of making clint barton a bonafide badass. And for villains at the very least we have the best kang in this show.
And these arent the only good characters, there aren't any characters i don't like, but there are probably better versions somewhere. Like the big three obviously, but also characters like Black Panther and Captain Marvel who i like the most in this show but i also havent read any of their comics.
Its such a shame we didnt get more of this show, ir that it got the recognition it deserved.
Agreed EMH is the equivalent to justice league unlimited both shows made each character A lost to D list seem like real interesting people
EMH is to the Avengers what X-MEN'97 is to the X-Men, and what Spectacular is to Spider-Man.
Now, if we could get an X-Men and an Avengers movie that were to them what Spiderverse is to Spidey, we'd have it all
Antman: "Mess with my girl and you're in for a giant azz whooping!" 😂
Let's be honest this era of early 2000's marvel shows was soooo good I MISS THESE SHOWS
Except it's a 2010s show
@@olefredrikskjegstad5972LMAOOO
@@olefredrikskjegstad5972 EMH was the last animated show of the 2000's style of writing and storytelling which people (mostly) prefer. I say this because EMH is followed by Ultimate Spider-Man, Avengers Assemble, Agents of SMASH, and yadda yadda. These shows might have some charming aspects or moments, but they don't hold up as well or can stand the test of time like most 2000's Marvel animated shows.
Agreed
"bUt hAnK pYm Is A tErrIbLE chArActEr bEcAUsE hE rEfUsEs tO fIght EvEn thOUgh hE's pArt Of A sUpErhErO tEaM."
-The Blockbuster Buster
Also, it would be nice if people stopped labeling the 616 Hank Pym as a wife beater, since even the people who worked behind the scenes on that particular issue stated that it was all an error in translation. It's certainly not helped by the matter being brought up during the time when Hank was fused with Ultron a few years back, or the "Look just how edgy we are" Ultimate universe existing.
Poor Hank. He was having mental health issues and instead of helping him the Avengers turned their backs on him.
Accept the 1610 ver. I dont know what the writers was smoking while making thst scene. But thats "the boys" level edgy.
Not enough people talk about Hank and Jan in this show, or even just in general... which makes the few times people _do_ talk about them so much better.
Hank is a great character for us who feel we are screw ups and like we dont fit in or arnt good enough.
Bro if he ever hit this Janet, I would've jumped in the TV to run the hands
EMH had my favorite versions of so many characters. Hank, Janet, Wasp, T'Challa, Carol. They didn't miss with characterization on this show. It's my favorite Avengers anything.
@@dillbert4084 my favorite version is Hawkeye, dude had charisma and was (at least in my opinion) a leader of the team. He always came in clutch to save the team and he ever recruited the hulk.
@@rapaz1997
The friendship between Hawkeye and Hulk was easily one of the best parts of the show.
@rapaz1997 My first exposure to Hawkeye was in the Next Avengers heroes of Tomorrow movie. While he doesn't acrually appear, you get to know a lot about him through the way others talked about him and the impacts of his actions. Hawkeye from Avengers: EMH matches up perfectly with that version. Capable of surviving a post apocalyptic world. Compassionate and a great leader tha's capable of leading a group of survivors. Would punch Stark in the face and then help him, definitely.
I think the aspect I love most about this interpretation, besides literally everything, is that even though (Thankfully) they removed the abuser aspect of the character he still has a dark aspect to him from the beginning. Like not maliciously but there is this nice chipperness to him that is completely unaware of how terrifying he is. Like at the start he kept his villains shrunken in a miniature jail and would pin them under his finger if they go too far or is confused why anyone would be scared of the countless robot aids he has stating “I gave them the heads of ants how is that not comforting”. It’s both kinda funny and really helps show how he could turn to Yellowjacket, like there was a secret darkness to him that regardless of how kind he truly is, was still there
This show could've easily skipped Hank given his state in the comics back then. Kinda how DCAU did with Hal and Barry. But man do i love it how it instead tackles the problem head on and decided to reinvent Antman and then deconstruct his character. Giving us a compelling arc from a pacifist Scientist to a loose canon vigilante.
EMH is peak they should bring it back 😭🙏🏾
The existence of X-Men '97 giving me unreasonable amounts of hope for this possibility.
@@oneovertwo1186me too bro 🙏🙏🙏
The original writers should be a part of it if not send them to the void
Im a guy who doesn't usually care about superhero stuff but i really like listening to you talk about it. Good job, your passion is commendable And inspiring. God bless
This will be a weird comparison, but EMH Hank Pym is what Beast Machines Silverbolt was supposed to be: a noble man who has a strict moral code & conduct, but is later revealed they do like being a more gray figure. This brakes them mentally and it takes them a while to recover, and even then they don’t do so fully.
In the first draft of the live action Avengers script, the founding lineup from the comics was the one they were initially going to go with before they went in a different direction. I wish they did keep the comic book accurate line up but Hollywood always has its own ideas.
Don’t think Hank Pym was ever mentioned as having DID, but they did acknowledge him having Bipolar.
Agreed. I really love a lot of comic stories, but EMH provided THE best Hank Pym, hands down.
I never understood why Ultron wasn't returned to peace mood after Kang was defeated
EMH was so good. Shame it got cancelled for an inferior show.
I remember watching the ultron arc the most in this show!! It was so memorable. Thanks for the good video!
Holy cow you only have 1k followers? This video was great. You got a subscriber my dude. Keep this up
Because He prioritzes Peak animation over the mundane live action projects, Unfurtuantely most people don't, But I'm glad people Like the owner of this channel give the animation the Value it Deserves
A relationship with an adult Hank that almost feels like teenagers makes sense, considering he is someone who does not have his multiple mental issues completely handled, speaking as someone who might have finally gotten a better handle on their own issues.
A thing I really dislike from the.comics is... the fans and "fans." Hank hitting Janet is obviously not okay, but is obviously not okay and unforgivable as an act in itself, but it is also understandable and shouldn't make him unforgivable as a person. He done fucked up, but he also learned and changed.... at least in the well written stories after that one, which was also a good story. But as with many good things in comics, the aftermath is a buncha idiots (including creators, specially creators) clinging just to the most superficial and visually impressive elements, and ignoring all the equally important subtler ones.
The story everyone reinforces/remembers is "Hank beat his wife one time, bad Hank bad", rather than "Hank had a really bad time and fucked up so badly he even hit his wife, and then had to learn and grow as a person to overcome that, but his previous poor self control in the face of an overwhelming personal crisis was not without lasting consequences, such as Jan divorcing him for good; let it be a lesson, try as best as you can to seek help early before too late". The later is great tragic storytelling for all involved even if imo it does end up relatively positively given how low it all went, but the constant pushing of the former really hurts uis character.
Love this version of Hank Pym too! I miss this show, it had great twists and it was hype to see new characters
by far the best version of ant man we’ve gotten
honestly I wish we'd gotten this ant man on the big screen
I relate to Ant-Man the most, mostly due to the fact he's the more introverted member of the Avengers.
He's got a good heart and tries to see the good in people, and has a very strong conscience. His shock and horror at his own creation killing someone he cared about speaks volumes of this.
earth mightiest heroes its just so good
Does it seem like a weird coincidence to anyone else that when Hank Pym designed his Yellow Jacket gear, he chose to make it very similar to the gear Janet uses as the Wasp? I'm personally thinking that Hank may have based the gear of his Yellow Jacket persona off of Janet's Wasp to a degree and adapted some elements to suit his preferences.
I bet if the show didn’t got canceled, we would’ve gotten Science Guy Hank Pym. Not only does Hank find his place in the Avengers (being the Mastermind of The Team) but he would also get back his love for his science. He would’ve still been a major help for the Avengers without resorting to violence against the bad guys.
I would have loved to see what the Squadron Supreme would look like in this art style
I absolutely loved everything about EMH
Especially the secret invasion arc.
7:20 That description of Hank Pym is perfect. That's why this version of Pym is rad.
This is my favorite version of antman too, they even introduce Scott lang in this as well. But hank pym was such a complex hero to me as a kid. He kind of frustrated me with not being willing to join the fight, but now I understand he was a pacifist at heart and always wanted to find a peaceful way to end fights even if it was unconvenventional.
Except passivism is a mental rejection of the reality of the world: some people could care less about talking and just wanna fight. It's great to try to resolve a conflict without violence, but more often then not its just not going to happen and you shouldn't get too bent out of shape about it.
Dude PLEASE keep making videos on EMH, I can’t get enough of these
I had hoped back then that Edward Norton would have been cast as Hank Pym. Based on this version of Ant-Man.
As much as I secretly like Ultimate Avengers Hank, EMH's Hank is a lot more relatable and more sympathetic. Also love Hank's character development.
Lore of The Perfect Ant-Man Adaptation momentum 100
You know if Avengers: EMH had continued there were some plans tossed around to have the team visit a dark future where Ultron took over the world. This show definitely feels like a prequel to that movie.
Correction graviton didn’t break out of prison Loki did he was the mastermind behind the operation
I cannot express how much I love EMH Pym. Ant-Man is one of my favorite superheroes because of this show.
Love that you are growing so fast. You deserve it. It's also a great video
i remember watching the first episode and hating how Hank didn't want to just beat up and capture the villians
I've never been the biggest fan of Ant-Man, so this is easily my favorite. He just keeps getting bad adaptations, except for this show. It still is a little weird though for him to be a pacifist superhero.
In a big battle showing heroes from all around the earth they show both giant man and yellowjacket as separate individuals
That’s because by the point Hank is Yellowjacket, the Ant-man mantel has been passed down to Scott Lang
@@Venxous was Scott in earth's mightiest heroes?
@@josephroszellI think there was a specific episode about the avengers meeting him.
@@josephroszellyeah there’s an episode where Scott steals Hank’s suit in order to save his daughter and it ends with Hank letting Scott keep the suit
Yes yes yes!! I agree with everything you said! From how this is truly the best adaptation of Hank Pym to how also this is the best Ultron as well. Glad to see love for this show, it was truly a shame when it got cancelled.
This show is why im an ant man fan
Haven't even watched the video yet, and already knew it was a W take
Much more interesting take than the movies I loved him as a Kid.
Great video and Hank was one of my favorite characters in EMH.
Great video! I love your appreciation of this series, and all the little details you put in. I adore the show. Giving you A like and subscribed:)
As a kid I used to watch this show until it eventually stopped airing where I was from, or I simply missed every time it did after the fact, and one of the last things I saw was a tease that Ultron would either be used as a weapon or that he would turn evil, I don't remember which, which was a bit dark IMO at the time, made only worse by the fact i soon after found and watched avengers heroes of tomorrow. As a kid, I thought the 2 were directly related, with the movie being a direct sequel to the show. Only years later on a nostalgia rabbit hole did I figure out it was just a domino of coincidences that led me to think that. I do still think it would have been a very bold and kinda cool cliffhanger ending for the show, tho.
Having the adaptation of something do a plot point BETTER than the source material, is an EXTREMELY rare case. But I'm grateful that one of those rare cases was Pym & Janet's relationship in this show.
ant man really hit him with the Low Teir God
Hey! As a character Designer on the series, Allow me to thank you for watching our show and for such a thoughtful discussion of it. :)
Thank you for taking the time to watch if you don’t mind me asking are there any insights you might like sharing?
@@Venxous all I can say is that it was a sort of bucket list gig for me. I had read Comics since I was a little kid, getting to be a part of that series was a great bit of fun!
Hank reminds me of Dr. Daystrom from Star Trek.
Ultron is a mix of Nomad and M-5.
I couldn't get with Avengers Ultron Movie because they said Ironman made him 😐Totally omitting Antman.
As if no one else is smart enough to make a lunatic Robot 🤣
This show is why I was and still am incredibly bummed that they gave us Scott Lang in the MCU. Admittedly I dont know much of anything about his comic version but while I absolutely love seeing Paul Rudd and he's incredibly entertaining, this entertainment is without fulfillment. He's a great comic relief and his relationship with his daughter is fine, but it's nothing compared to hank. We dont get to see hank and Janets relationship struggles, we barely get to see Hank being a pacifist and it's basically boiled down to him being a grumpy stubborn old man. This hank is such an incredible character, and with how popular Paul rudds take on the character is, I worry that we won't ever get to see a good hank again, at least for the foreseeable future
I loved this show as a kid, his progression was the most naturel. His storyline and the skrulls are the once I liked the most
Absolutely agreeing with this title.
EMH made Antman one of my Marvel favorites.
Before watching this show, I couldn't care less about Hank Pym. By the time i finished, he was one of my favorite characters.
The more I watch your videos the more I realize that you and I have the same Views about this show, Keep it up!
this show was my first deep dive into avengers too.
AEMH was, is and probably always will be the best animated version of these characters and the Avengers as a team
Such a shame that it was cancelled halfway through the second season
They even did some things better than the MCU, like the slow build-up to the Skrulls, just having it play on the background in season 1 to then becoming the main plot in season 2
Yes. This version is amazing. He's not perfect, but he is a good character. He has his flaws, all of which make him a better character
This cartoon make everything right
Correction Thor was just conveniently teleported at the same moment that Ultron blasted him
I know Thor wasn’t dead but Hank believed him to be and harbored the guilt for that….plus gotta have something for the Thor vid
Love Jan's winged hairstyle
Never watched this show. Your videos on it make it look good.
Yeah, this is the best Ant-man hands down. Period
He delivered! Im loving these videos, will definitely be subscribing to see more!
WRONG, AEMH was THE perfect Adaptation of ALL characters, not just Antman!
I ain’t got to the other characters yet chill
Something to consider: when you said Janet/Hank seemed like a very teenage relationship, it reminded me that Janet was in college--she very well might have been a teenager, and Hank couldn't have been that much older. They were very much young adults in comparison to some of the other people on the team.
Anyways, great video! You've got a new sub.
basically... EMH is peak marvel and JLA is peak dc... no problem with that that's fantastic
It's pretty depressing that the only other Avengers show that treats the cast with respect is the Disk Wars anime from 2014.
Think about it: a Toyetic kids anime is more competently written than any of Disney's tie-in shows.
EMH is fantastic, and Ant Man was way better in it then the MCU, I also loved how they had magic and science combined in Wakanda, The Black Panthers glowing purple weapon was so cool.
Never understood some Iron Man moments though, in the first few episodes he literally left Hawkeye behind in an exploding base despite him saving his life a second earlier which is never brought up again, that time when you brought up about Simon and other times that he was a dickhead for no real reason but I’m guessing that’s just stark
The Hank Pym in Al Ewing’s Ant Man miniseries is the only one that holds a candle to EMH’s
Great video man🙏
simon was very very stubborn and blinded
Ant man and Wasps relationship is interesting. They're methods of approaching villains aren't necessarily wrong or right.
Wasp will go on head on and take action, while Ant Man will only use physical force as a last resort when trying to reach out to a villain as a means of helping doesn't work or if wasp is hurt or in danger.
Is amazing how spider man at his best is the best of both Janet and Hank in this show
21:10 i mean, he ain't wrong.
not only was this the best adaptation of Hank, but also the relationship between Hank and Janet as well.
also, Janet from this series was my greatest Childhood Crush lol.
idgaf if it sounds weird, because she made hot af!
I never liked how Hank was written back in the early 80s. That domestic violence trope really destroyed any type of storytelling one could do with him as a character. This is why it is not good to try to be edgy just because you think it will be cool. The character was destroyed for years by marvel editorial board allowing that. I just wish the MCU Hank pym was written more like the Earth mightiest heroes Hank pym. I don't like what the MCU did to Janet. Emh got her character right.
I can't wait for you to do all the other characters.
I like this depiction alot. My favorite is still the ultimate avengers movies ant man. He was just a badass gave me human torch vibes. Maybe that’s just nostalgia speakin😂
24:24 “You have been banned from the Mickey Mouse Club for inappropriate behavior”
POOOOKIEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAA as the number 1 emh hank fan this video is so it yes
great video! the only thing is that the music is much louder than the clips from the show so you cant hear the characters talking very well
In the 80's i never realized Ant-Man had multiple personality disorder, i just thought he couldn't make up his mind on a superhero name.😂