A story I read from WW2 Flanders. A British officer observed some of his men deep in conversation with some local farmers. He later asked how they were able to communicate and was told it was easy enough when you spoke Scots to them. I also knew an Aberdeenshire woman who claimed to understand a fair bit of Dutch just from it's resemblance to her own language.
Very interesting! As a Norwegian, I recognize many words as kirke, nummer, ton, which become tun in Norwegian and which is a word that is still in everyday speech, nest(e), stane in Scottish is stein in Norwegian with exactly the same pronunciation. We have not had any immigration from Flanders, but we were sailors and have probably brought many words and expressions home to Norway.Thanks so much Ben!
I find this extremely interesting as a Norwegian from Bergen living in Vlaanderen for the last 21 years. I speak flemish fluently of course and since my gf is Portuguese I also understand that. Now the amount of words from Dutch and Portuguese that have sneaked its way into Norwegian is amazing and far more reaching that you would think. In the dialect from Bergen which had a large population of Dutch people in the middleages when it was a Hansastad we do of course find lots of dutch words but also Portuguese in fact. Probably because of the export of dry cod, bachaljao that started around year 1200. Fun fact, the word for cod in dutch is kabeljauw, most small kids get this word wrong and tend to say something like bakaljau instead which in fact could mean that the name of this fish in Portuguese could come from misspelling of the dutch name kabeljuaw. Anyway languages remain fascinating
Note: in modern Flemish-i.e. Dutch as spoken by Flemings-kirk(e) is spelled and pronounced kerk, with an e. It still means a church. And in Flemish the word bucht or bocht today means junk, trash, something worthless. But in old Flemish it also meant an animal pen as well as a fenced off compost pile. Sometimes those two meanings and functions coincided such as in the case of a pig sty. The modern meaning of bucht in Flemish as trash plausibly stems from the fact that the composting pile of a farm or a house was created by throwing all the domestic trash-trash from the kitchen and meals and other such organic waste-in one dedicated place. Scots kept the older meaning of the word.
Superb video, I learned much but have a couple of observations/questions: Cameron... always believed that was from the Gaelic Cam sron: "crooked nose" Dumfries...heard its origin was from Pretanic for the "fort of the Frisians" but also the "thicket fort" Currently live I the Scottish borders, there are still many local placenames retaining their Pretanic origins...Penicuik - pen y cuiken is pretty obvious, Carstairs, Carluke, Carnwath, Peebles,... I'm sure there's more Not so much of the Goidelic influence but there's Innerleithen (inverleithen) and Glendearg - the red glen As you said also numerous Flemish named places but also Danish/Frisian! I have personal experience of communicating with Flemish speakers and although it wasn't easy, it was surprising how much could be related with a few augmented hand gestures! My Flemish ancestors were virtually wiped out by Edward I defending Berwick in 1296, but it's perhaps strange that many of my relatives are found in agriculture, textiles, engineering and woodworking: not so different to our ancestors! Eastern lowland scots appears to be closer to Flemish whereas the doric speakers seem to share more with the Danish and Frisian...it's often said that Germanic speakers understand Doric better than the English (and western Scots??) Altogether an intriguing and thought provoking video, much appreciated 🏴🇪🇺🏴 Seo an Latha, an uair seo tha 🏴🇪🇺🏴
Very good. Flanders was the economic heartland of Europe, north of the Alps from the 10th until the 13th century. It was a booming place where there was overpopulation. For instance Brabant, Holland and Norfolk in England developed to prominence after having been de facto economic colonies of Flanders earlier. Wasn't aware of the amount of Flemish influence on eastern Scotland. Apart from Scotland there was also major Flemish emigration to Holland, the area around Berlin, some later German parts of Romania, Pembrokeshire in Wales, and also the Atlantic islands of Portugal.
So interesting brilliant film 😊 my mum and dad on holiday in holland when ordering bulbs the people would not believe they came from dundee , our ancestors from 1695 onwards were flax dresses, ropers, sail makers,almost all the same name related a lot emigrated all round the world ,the buick automobile 🚘 should be buik lol 😊😊
Right you are sir! I'm a Fleming from Antwerp in Flanders. Even our children learn English very fast by looking television. And I must admit Scots is close to Flemish and even Frisian. One gentlemen is talking about family names originating from France, but he forgets to mention that these mentioned territories used to be Flanders as well.
You forget to mention Bruges as mercantile center, undoubtedly the most important one together with Ghent. Antwerp came into the fold later on. Back then 'Flanders' was a part of Burgundy which stretched from parts that are now in Holland down to Dijon in France. There were four parts of Flanders, West- and East-Flanders (still there today), Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (by the sea, now a part of Holland just across the Belgian border) and French-Flandres (in the north of France again just across the Belgian border). Flanders was incredibly wealthy and was at a peak in trade, arts and culture. I'm sure you know all that. :-)
Just looking at Flanders and its wider context could create a successful TH-cam channel of its own I am sure. My knowledge is limited and there is lots there for me to explore!
I'm from north -east Scotland and there was lots of trade Flemish to Moray coast. My Marshall ancestors are Flemish originally, their first photos are that they are very blond and light eyed. Basically look very Dutch or German. So you might here words like:trachel ( tiring) thrang (Hardy) fleg (fright) muckle (big) chore (thief) Pech(t) (to steal)
You forgot biggin, noun and verb. Hoasten, coughing. Clype, a telltale. I always thought pechen was puffing and panting. I'm from Angus-Kincardineshire.
Mukker (mate) is makker in flemish! And hoose (house) is huis in flemish, but in the western flemish accent is pronounced the exact same way as in scots!
That was really interesting, as a native of West of Scotland it made perfect sense...all the non-English words I grew up hearing being spoken by my parents, and as an adult I wondered why I could understand many Dutch/Flemish words without ever having studied the languages. Still use many of the words you mentioned!
Excellent video. Highly interesting stuff. Sadly most modern day Flemings know precious little about our medieval history, besides perhaps the battle of the golden spurs
@@BenLlywelyn actually, that battle is interesting for brittish in a way because 1 it heavily mirrors the situation at agincourt 2 one of the major depictions of it is the so called courtrai chest, the interesting thing about that chest is, well, how did it get to Great britain, it was apparantly rediscovered in a barn that belonged to I believe the university of cambridge or oxford, but it is certainly a medieval depiction of that battle
I am a Flemish descendant. My father is a Gladwyn, but my nan's maiden name is Fleming. From Armseugh near Fleming Hill Kilmarnock, Ayrshire. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for bringing to light some interesting aspects of Scots. The Middle Dutch of medieval Flemish settlers would have been mutually intelligible with forms of 'English' spoken throughout Scotland and northern England. It is easy to imagine how the languages would have fused quickly into Scots with some influence from Welsh.
1:07 the modern region of flanders is very different to the historical region of flanders Graafschap Vlaanderen ( as it is called in dutch) were only the two most western provinces in flanders called West flanders and east flanders, while the rest is in france or the netherlands under Zeeuws Vlaanderen, Frans Vlaanderen (french flanders)
And Antwerpen and certainly Brussel, in cultural meaning, are not or have ever been or became "Flemish" and that is mostly due to the spoken language. In the time frame you are talking there is no such thing as "Dutch" or "Flemish" or (oud) Nederlands, that still has to emerge out of the old-Frankish/Germanic language, with the shifting of the linguistic patterns.
@@Thanadeez No, really, are you been serious ? Considered Vlaams by whom ? Rewriting history to serv modern ideas, be my guest ... maybe that is why the Brabanders fought against the damned Vlamingen in 1302 ?
@@Naucano literally look on wikipedia lmao, duchy of brabant, duchy of flanders, both were culturally flemish by the 14th century, brabant didn't really fight, it depends on wether the person was rich or poor, the richer brabanters supported the french the poorer support the flemish, flanders was also supported by namur and zeeland, plus, just fighting each other doesn't mean they're not the same culture, look at france, their lords fought each other 24/7 No one is rewriting history to serve modern ideas, if i wanted to serve flemish nationalism i would be saying limburg was flemish, which they're not
As a Fleming, I have an ancestor who was of Scottish descent (he born in Ireland, but parents were Scottish). I discovered this through the presence of an unusual name in the family tree. He arrived in Flanders around 1600 and his Scottish surname survives to this day. So it is interesting that the two regions have much in common. Perhaps it partly explains why he chose to move to Flanders.
Argentine here, from a region in the Buenos Aires province that after the spanish colonial regency departed, was very early settled by scottish cattle farmers, nowadays some of their small "camp" (Kemp) churches do still exist and I as a child with no scottish ancestry but with partly flemish, always wondered why they were named "Kirk" or "Kerke" equally to the Platt Neyderdûytsch (old flemish) wording my grandparents used to cultivate at family gatherings Interestingly enough Argentina is the only place in the world outside Wales where welsh language is nowadays in use and taught at primary schools, altough quite far away from my province, more exactly in Chubut Province, in Patagonia
I love this video!! I'm Canadian but 100% Flanders Flemish heritage from both parents. My best buddy is of Scottish heritage and VERY proud of it. We both love to play golf (kolf). I'm going to forward this video to him and wait for the river of humility and gratitude that will never arrive 😅 This is awesome...had no idea of the historical significance. Now I definitely need to visit Scotland.
Very interesting. I always thought that Scots was merely a different development of Anglo-Saxon, without the Norman French influence. The Dutch Flemish influence makes sense.
Belgians have been trading with the Picts since ancient Rome times. The Menapii (one of the seven original Belgae tribes, living near the Belgian coast) had already crossed the English channel and started settlements all across the English East coast as far North as current day Scotland. Later, when Julius Caesar tried to wipe-out the Belgians, a lot of Belgians survived by fleeing along the coast through the swampy polders into France to Britony. Then they crossed the channel and arrived in South England (where they saw that the surrounding land was almost the same as that where they came from, only bigger, and they called the land "the greater Britony". Cities like Blackpool and Brighton were originally Belgian survivor settlements. Most of the refugees settled in what now is Wales, though.
I am taken back by the information you just presented. This answers so many questions . I knew Scotts was a Germanic Dialect. But did not know it was Flemish/Dutch. Now I know. Heard they still speak it in Northern Ireland. This also helped explain the some of the differences between the highland and lowland Scotts.
Hi there. I would not say it IS Flemish/Dutch. I would say that through Anglic, it was already very, very close, and that Flemish settlers helped it to maintain that closeness. Anyway, I am very happy to have helped you and that you enjoyed the video. Thank you.
You use the term dialect completely wrong, and Scots is similar to Dutch in the same way that English is: they’re members of the West Germanic language group
@@eze9057 dialect is used for a form of a language that is not distinct enough from the standard language to be a completely separate language. The West Germanic languages are themselves divided into four different groups: Anglo-Frisian, which consists of English, Scots and Frisian, then Low German, consisting of Low Saxon and similar languages, then Low Franconian, consisting of Dutch and its dialects, and finally High German, consisting of Upper-Saxon-Thuringian, Allemanic (including Swiss German) and Austro-Bavarian.
I'm Scottish and have lived in the Netherlands for 14 years. I speak fluent Dutch like a native, people are often surprised that im not Dutch. It's always amazed me how many Dutch words are comparable with Scots words. A lot of Fries words are even more similar than Dutch. I also work in Antwerp most months but I've never made the Flemish connection. Being a native Scottish speaker is definitely one of the reasons i picked up Dutch very quickly. Incredible to learn about the history of how these languages have intermingled and evolved through the years. Thank you!
Guess this has some connection to how (now) friends from across the pond were getting mad when I told em I was belgian/flemish.. they used to get mad and call me a liar as I for whatever reason developed a hybrid accent (I’d say) between scottish and northern irish. Obviously I left out any doubt when I started speaking Flemish and that’s where some Scottish individuals were like.. why does some of this sound familiar (bits and pieces). Never knew but this does explain it a wee bit.
Do note that these 'Flemings' at the time are not the people from Flanders, but mostly the people form West and Easy Flanders. Antwerp I don't know if they also had part in it because it's been part of Brabant but Limburg had mostly interactions and history with Southern Netherlands cities like Maastricht and the Rhineland cities of Köln and Aachen so that's an entire different history we've got apart from both Flanders or the Netherlands. 😊
Fascinating video. I didnt know of the Flemish influence on Scots. I always presumed more Germanic sounding words in Scots, like many you mentioned, had come from Northumbrian origins of Scots. When do you think the Brythonic/ Welsh language finally died out in southern Scotland? I understand the Kingdom of Strathclyde ( Alt Clut ) survived until into 11th century and was conquered by the Gaelic speaking kingdom of Alba, but the area still kept its Brythonic identity into the 13th century. There are many towns and areas in southern Scotland that have Brythonic based place names.
It is quite difficult to say. People carried Welsh or Brythinic echoing names as far as 1400, but that does not mean they were speaking Welsh - just aware of heritage. I would say some small rural pockets could have lasted until 1300, but that is a stretch. 1200 to 1250 is likely for rhe last community losing its language.
@@paulthomas8262 I think Pictish was already a very distinct dialect of British when Rome came. And then as Welsh formed out of British & Latin, the Pictish kept evolving on their own path without Latin, and increasingly later, Irish.
The guttural "ch" as in "loch" exists in Gaelic too and was written as "gh" in Old English ("eight" etc.) That sound was lost in Modern English as English pronuciation became for French and Latin influenced. P.S. Regarding he pronuciation of "Scone" - the town is pronounced "Skone" with a long "O" and the biscuit is pronouned "skon" with a short "o", at least here in Australia.
There's also a town in Scotland called 'Scone' (pronounced 'Skoon'), which is another possibility as to where the name for scones come from. So maybe everybody's wrong and they're supposed to be pronounced /skoon/!
@@h-Qalziel Probabably difference between Scottish and Australian pronunciations. There ia town in New South Wales (Australia) called Scone, it's called "Skone" by the locals. Perhaps it's a bit like the pronunciation of Perth. - "pairth" for the town in Scotland and "purth" for the city in Western Australia.
Eight, 8, is pronounced acht in Flemish just as in loch. And we have also sch that only Flemish and Dutch can pronounse (schip, schreeuw - try this one, schouw, schrijven...)
Afrikaans, which is spoken in South Africa, developed mostly from Dutch and French. When you simply read Flemish on goods imported from Belgium, you can understand it, though obviously the pronunciation will differ. We had friends who spoke Scottish Gaelic and many words are the same in Afrikaans.
@@BenLlywelyn You are so right. I have just found the Language sites, & have been testing my understanding of tongues. To my surprise, & delight, I have discovered that my Afrikaans enables me to read what my English does not. The Dutch vocabulary opens doors without all the complicated gender rules & grammar.
As are the Dutch and Scots churches very close. My Scottish great grandfather was educated in Holland in theology. He immigrated to South Africa in the 1870's where he met and married a Boer miesie.
This is very interesting, thank you ! I would have loved to hear you elaborate on the Flemish origins of place names like Symington or Lambinton, and surnames like Cameron, Crawford or Murray... I as a native Flemish speaker don't see any equivalent in Flemish. I'm probably missing something
My ancestors lived in Aalst and were often called as Coucke, Coecke or Coecke van Aalst. They worked in the clothing industry in Aalst. It is possible some of them moved to Scotland, and maybe the name adapted to Cook(e).
hi mate ,love your vids . i have an interest in placenames of fife and wondered how you would translate "coet beit " from a poem in book of talesin i think . im finding a defintion for beit v difficult
Much of the ideas you used in this video are very strong around Aberdeenshire. So, a person in Fife might not be so familiar, although they may have come into contact via workers who came to Fife to build. But, living on the coast of Fife would have put you in direct contact with the Flemish as they came into ports. They had a system of carrying ballast in the form of roof tiles (pan tiles), which they left in the seaside villages when they collected fish.
@@BenLlywelyn not just Fife, but also the fishing villages in East Lothian have an over-abundance of pan-tile roofs. From my late father's stories, pan tiles were still being used as ballast in the early 20th century
As the Lindsay's origin from the Flemming, Gilbert de Ghent(Companion to William of Normandy) third son who was Walter of Lindissia (spelling?, the now section of Lincolnshire named Lindsey, part of Gilbert's holdings) Walter was a Companion of Prince David. Walter signed the document, 'Inquest into the See of Glasgow', in 1104 and followed David to Scotland to take the Crown, when his older brother Alexander died. Over 900 years in Scotland, Gilbert, was three lines of descent from Charlemagne.
Fascinating. I am South African with Scottish blood. Afrikaans makes great use of the ch, & I have long wondered how the Scottish had it & the English could not do it. Thanks for enlightening me.
I'm Flemish, partly from Dutch and German ancestry and I was completely unaware of this. Stuff we were never taught in school! Flanders nowadays is the Dutch speaking Northern half of Belgium, as many of you may know. The French speaking Southern half is called Wallonia, stemming from the same etymological root as Wales. Historically the Flemish language (or dialect) was spoken in the area from Duinkerken (Dunkurque) and Rijsel (Lille) in Northern France up to the counties surrounding Bruges and Ghent all the way up to rhe Dutch province of Zeeland. Our "ch" and "g" tends to be much softer, the way the Scottish pronouce it reminisces a lot more to Holland Dutch, which is far more guttural. Flanders also comprises the regions of Brabant, Antwerp (which used to be a part of Brabant) and Limburg. To make it more confusing, the Netherlands also have a Province called Brabant and one called Limburg.
@@BenLlywelyn most cities in Belgium even have different names in other languages. it doesn't help that we kinda invented some of them within our borders😅So get ready to be confused. eg: Antwerpen, Anvers and Ambéres are all just Antwerp.
Great point on the use of TAE. I find structural elements define the direction of perspective in a language. The 'tae-redd' completely shifts the role of action,coming from an English-Am. Brain.
Bucht, at least in today's Flanders, actually means rubbish. I was not aware of the etymology of the word but it apparently comes from a enclosed piece of land. It's cognate bocht refers to a bend in the road. Very interesting, i was not aware of the Flemish link with Scotland.
Very interesting. My great, great grandfather came from Hobkirk, Roxburghshire and the whole family were 'wool weavers'. One daughter was a 'twistler' whatever that was!
@@BenLlywelyn I could be wrong but it could be the time when Scotland's aristocrats got a taste for sending their kids to learn English with that posh accent and overnight (well, maybe about ten years) Scots went from a prestige language to being infantilised in Scotland. Broun was recorded as a surname before this time, Brown after. Etc. The anglicised spelling. Not sure if that's the same with Fleeming to Fleming. Could be!
🥂🥂🥂🥂🍾🍾🍾🍾 very accurated your clip bro, very deepest. Requires a talent in historical, military and linguistical science knowledge to intuite, differ each part of content inside of you information.
From both sides, mother and father, I’m descendant from 13th century Scottish heritage due to the trade monopoly of Scottish wool in the city of Veere in Zeeland , the Southern province of the Netherlands, near Flanders
@@BenLlywelyn They took the names of the areas of land that they settled in Scotland. I forgot to mention the Innes family being of Flemmish descent, and Innes being the name of their land.
Very interesting video Growing up in Moray I'm used to speaking Scots (Doric), and aware of the Flemish Dutch influence on the language. Recently I found out more about the Plantation of Moray by King David 1st to suppress the "Men of Moray" who had been a thorn in the side of the Scots kings and challenging for the throne. Macbeth was the last king from Moray. The footprints of Banff, Elgin, Forres, Auldearn and Dingwall were all designed by a Flemish man and the people planted there Flemish, English, Norman to both suppress and create economic development. There are a few notable names from Moray of Flemish descent like John Comyn (The Red Comyn) murdered by Robert De Brus (of Norman descent), and Andrew De Murray who was the brains behind the victory of Stirling Bridge now attributed to William Wallace (A Strathclyde Welsh name). Although i know and use many of the words within the video (Kirk, redd, tae, echt, stane, douchter etc,) I've never heard of some of the others though e.g. Bucht, kittenler, neist, snel On a visit to just over the old border to Alnwick near Newcastle I found they used many of the dane words as I do. This re-enforces the impact across much of the North East of Britain. The Norman invasion of 1066 had an incredible impact through the whole of the British isles with their dynastic footprint stretching across the centuries to the highest parts of society e.g. the present royal family with Stuart bloodline. And pronounce scone as "skon".
@@BenLlywelyn Yes, the remains of Norman motte and bailey castles abound here, but it's still a beautiful part of the North East of Scotland and peaceful too ✌️
Another fantastic video. Would King David have been that keen to get everyone in Scotland to speak Scots/Inglis since his great-grandfather had been the last Irish-speaking king of Scotland? It seems like the Cumbrians adopted English/Inglis on both sides of the border and the Picts adopted Gaelic, since the kingdoms had been merged much earlier than with Strathclyde.
King David's control over the Highlands was minimal.at best. Gaelic was abl to expand and grow in prestige due to it being outside the control of the King and with leaders of high rank in their own right.
Wow another interesting video, just when you think ure knowledge is increasing more old incredible information pertaining scotland comes out I can see bits of Flemish in the way us dundonians speak schemey oary (common dundee language)
@@BenLlywelyn Och eh ye do mate. Language wise is different planets - the nice grammatical English that the fowk use in St Andrews compared ti Dundonian and further noth Doric is mental
You are using current english pronounciations. Dochter and daughter have very similar pronunciations in middle english. R was rolled up to early modern times. Kirk is a very common place name element in northern english. placenames. Ormskirk and Kirkdale.
The baronies of Forth and Bargy of what's today Co Wexford in Ireland were colonised by people from Flanders in the late 12th Century. Right down to the 19th Century they spoke a variant of Middle English called Yola. Might be worth a vid to compare with Scots?
That is indeed fascinating. I would have to learn quite a bit more about it before I attempted a video, but it is worth a video if I get beyond this history series I am doing and get the reading done.
In your clip you designed military deals and tractings between britain and normand and cornishes in south of UK. In north, west of UK its very different, Wales and Scotland are partners together with some irishes, Manxishes, norwegians, dutches and flemishes to not be assimilades by England. Theses aliances its the principles and bases of britain vs wales/scotland wars in UK military and civil history.
@@BenLlywelyn ah, yes i ve seen others clips they use manx like singular to not confuses with word man. That's why i use the term manxishes. Thanks partner.
Brussels was not flanders in that time and Brussels is still not flanders. The flanders talked about in the video was called the County of Flanders. This was flanders from 862 to 1795.
@@VandeVisscher That is also true but it's not clear whether in the video they mean Flanders sensu stricto (the Western part) or Flanders sensu lato (the modern day meaning).
@@mistersir3020 I assume that if speaking of that period in time you refer to flanders from at that time. It would be quite confusing to speak about a older time in history but using a term which refers to a much later time in history. If speaking of flanders today it should be specified. Brussels was and is still not a part of flanders. Back in that time Brussels was part of Brabant and now Brussels is part of Belgium.
small sidenote, about half of what is now known as Flanders was actually the duchy of Brabant, whose colours influenced the Belgian flag, Antwerp and Brussels were cities in this duchy, as were the dutch cities of Eindhoven and Breda... but flanders and brabant could be considered twins, the biggets difference being that Brabant was de jure landlocked, even tho de facto it had the scheldt estuary, and with zeeland still mostly being small islands, a direct connection to the sea. actually the heraldry of Flanders and brabant is eachother's opposite... a lion in sable on a field of gold with tongue and claws of gueles... the brabant coat of arms was a lion of gold on a field of sable, also with red tongue and claws, and is the official coat of arms of Belgium today. there was also the county of Loon, belonging to the prince bishopric of Liege, nowadays known as Belgian Limburg.
As a Dutchman to be honest, some words eluded me. I also heard that the old Frisians (not the current ones, they came from Denmark and Germany) emigrated to Scotland after the Romans left the low countries at around 350 AD. I don't know if that is true, but it could also be a part of the story.
interesting though it is, one can test this theory by looking at the anlo saxon language rather the English which shows many of those words would have been in use prior to the norman invaision.
@@BenLlywelynwhen you consider European migration tends to be east to west and that the angles, jutes and saxons were arriving in Britain from circa 449 AD, some 100+ years before flanders was first recorded, with its name disputed as coming from either, proto-german, old high german or old norse. It would seem Flemish is not a standalone root language. I know from translating between young scots and English lads in the armed forces how close Scots and Geordie are. Found many similarities when working in Demark, after having learned basic German from a German who comented how northern british people pronounce german words more acurately generally, than southern english.
@@BenLlywelyn exactly my point, with the spread of peoples to the west and the existance of flanders as part of the frankish empire prior to its independance there would appear to be more languages derrived from old german in northern europe and latin in the south. I remember an article years ago that stated the nearest to the (then) Queens English was spoken in Edingburgh, with the north east having the most similarity to Anglo Saxon. Ironically Edingburgh being a major settlement of Northumbria prior to incursion across the forth by the Kingdom of Alba.
Watched this on tv but had to log in to the pc to comment - I am from Midlothian. In our county we have the town of Penicuik which in ancient Brythonic means Pen Y Gog - Hill of the Cuckoo, that ancient language is preserved in the name of the town. And on Traprain Law (Dunpender) in East Lothian we have the ancient seat of the Goddodin ( i think they were referred to as the Votadini by the Romans). Their king was King Loth - as in Lothian the name of our county. As a lad i was confused by the similar legends in Wales as we have here in Scotland- King Arthur etc - yet we have Arthur's Seat an extinct volcano in Edinburgh (Din Eiydin). Then i realised that we were the original lands of the Britons - so when they were pushed down though Cumbria (Cymru) into modern Wales they took their legends with them. So for me King Arthur was from 'here' in the lothians - and Merlin was from Drumelzier, in the Scottish borders. Also i find words like Esk - we have rivers in Midlothian named South and North Esk, In Angus we have the north esk, In the western Borders we have the Border Esk and in Wales we have the Usk. Clearly this just means River in an ancient tongue. Also the fact that most scots Irish and Welsh are from the R-M269 DNA Haplogroup means we are all kin. except those invaders that now populate England and hence why we Celtic/Brythonic nations side with each other in the Six Nations rugby tournament lol
“The borders” of Scotland are gorgeous, you all should visit if you can. I am Scottish, my maiden name is Spowart, I’ve heard it’s of Flemish origin, does anybody know? I can’t find much on it.
Spowart is as Scottish as can be from what I can make out. It is definitely of some West Germanic root be it Dutch, Flemish or Frisian. Maybe even German. It seems this was someone from those lands who camd to Scotland early, but settled outside the typical burroughs so the local Scots could not pronounce the name and it altered over time from something similar into being Spowart, due to local accents.
Many of the words you mention are also common in northern England. But English dialects are frowned upon in England especially by the education establishment. You are definitely uneducated if you use anything like dialect in speech and writing. The Queen's English is what is required. Also the original Angles and so on were basically Frisians so were Flemish in origin themselves. That all changed with William at Hastings and we had French imposed on us.
Well done, just the map of Flanders you show in the beginning is the modern (after 1830) concept of Flanders. Traditionally only the west was Flanders (part of France), The middel was/is Brabant and the east was/is Limburg. Not being Flemish at the time of your story amd part of the Holy Roman Empire....
I am Flemish and did not know this. I was not aware of this connection between Flanders and Scotland. But there might be a similarity that there both rebelious against the country there part of.
@@BenLlywelyn don't think so. Mostly catholic with some small pockets of protestants. I am not a historian so I could be wrong here. The Netherlands is more protestant, Flanders is more catholic. I am not sure why. I think Flanders remained more catholic due to the fact that the low countries at one point became part of catholic Spain. Something that resulted in the 80 year war between the low countries and Spain. The Spanish hgot good foothold in the Flemish region but showed incapable of getting control over Holland. But it still had to fight some big battles in Flanders to remain or expand it's control. Only I don't know if Spain got a foothold in Flanders because it was more catholic or that we remained more catholic because of the Spanish occupation.
i'm not sure about how our ancestors prononounced the CH, but you're prononouncing it like the modern dutch people ,which is pretty harsh..., in flanders it's actually a soft sound. I don't know how to explain but you ch shouldn't sound like you're scraping something, but sound constant like for example a tv channel without reception , but again more softly. then for schoon you just use the same ch sound with an s infront of it ... use the some o sound of scone and that's it.
If Scone is derived from the Dutch word 'schoon', then the pronunciation should be Scone as in 'alone'. However, in the Flemish pronunciation of Schoon it would sound more like Scoin, as in 'Doing', with the o sound being similar to the o sound in the Scottish pronunciation of the word Scotland
The progenitor of Clan Douglas was also a Fleming. My ancestors. I decend from most of the Flemish names you listed in the video. I knew about Fleming, Bruce, and Douglas. I didn't know about Haye or Murray. I am also an Oliphant decendant and that seems like a non Scottish surname.
Hey thank you, glad you value the content! If you enjoyed that video check out this one I just made tonight on Scottish place names: th-cam.com/video/-1FfW_YJQAk/w-d-xo.html
As a native flemish dutch speaker, this was an amazingly interesting video, I really didn't know this before ! 😮🙂
A story I read from WW2 Flanders. A British officer observed some of his men deep in conversation with some local farmers. He later asked how they were able to communicate and was told it was easy enough when you spoke Scots to them. I also knew an Aberdeenshire woman who claimed to understand a fair bit of Dutch just from it's resemblance to her own language.
Thar scene should be in a film.
Yeah... I've been to Scotland, and I'm Flemish. Didn't understand shite what they said lmao
@@DarkAngelEU To be fair I can't understand them much either.
Very interesting! As a Norwegian, I recognize many words as kirke, nummer, ton, which become tun in Norwegian and which is a word that is still in everyday speech, nest(e), stane in Scottish is stein in Norwegian with exactly the same pronunciation. We have not had any immigration from Flanders, but we were sailors and have probably brought many words and expressions home to Norway.Thanks so much Ben!
Velkommen. Norway has some many opportunities for landscape cinematography.
@@BenLlywelyn Tusen takk. Scotland does not hold back when it comes to beautiful scenery! You are welcome here :)
The Normans occupied northern France and were called so because they came from Scandinavia. So there is most likely a language connection.
I find this extremely interesting as a Norwegian from Bergen living in Vlaanderen for the last 21 years. I speak flemish fluently of course and since my gf is Portuguese I also understand that. Now the amount of words from Dutch and Portuguese that have sneaked its way into Norwegian is amazing and far more reaching that you would think. In the dialect from Bergen which had a large population of Dutch people in the middleages when it was a Hansastad we do of course find lots of dutch words but also Portuguese in fact. Probably because of the export of dry cod, bachaljao that started around year 1200. Fun fact, the word for cod in dutch is kabeljauw, most small kids get this word wrong and tend to say something like bakaljau instead which in fact could mean that the name of this fish in Portuguese could come from misspelling of the dutch name kabeljuaw. Anyway languages remain fascinating
@@NALLEPUH13 Norway's great maritime history must have enriched its language in beautiful ways. If only I had the lifetimes to explore! Dank je wel.
Note: in modern Flemish-i.e. Dutch as spoken by Flemings-kirk(e) is spelled and pronounced kerk, with an e. It still means a church. And in Flemish the word bucht or bocht today means junk, trash, something worthless. But in old Flemish it also meant an animal pen as well as a fenced off compost pile. Sometimes those two meanings and functions coincided such as in the case of a pig sty. The modern meaning of bucht in Flemish as trash plausibly stems from the fact that the composting pile of a farm or a house was created by throwing all the domestic trash-trash from the kitchen and meals and other such organic waste-in one dedicated place. Scots kept the older meaning of the word.
Interesting and very needed. Dank je wel.
Bad wine we also call "bucht" 😁
Very interesting. In NL Dutch the word bocht means 1. A curve, bend like in a road and 2. a bad tasting drink like beer, tea or coffee.
@@lbergen001 In Flemish Dutch ‘bocht’ also means a bend in road or path as one of its meanings. Even its primary modern meaning, indeed.
Superb video, I learned much but have a couple of observations/questions:
Cameron... always believed that was from the Gaelic Cam sron: "crooked nose"
Dumfries...heard its origin was from Pretanic for the "fort of the Frisians" but also the "thicket fort"
Currently live I the Scottish borders, there are still many local placenames retaining their Pretanic origins...Penicuik - pen y cuiken is pretty obvious, Carstairs, Carluke, Carnwath, Peebles,... I'm sure there's more
Not so much of the Goidelic influence but there's Innerleithen (inverleithen) and Glendearg - the red glen
As you said also numerous Flemish named places but also Danish/Frisian!
I have personal experience of communicating with Flemish speakers and although it wasn't easy, it was surprising how much could be related with a few augmented hand gestures!
My Flemish ancestors were virtually wiped out by Edward I defending Berwick in 1296, but it's perhaps strange that many of my relatives are found in agriculture, textiles, engineering and woodworking: not so different to our ancestors!
Eastern lowland scots appears to be closer to Flemish whereas the doric speakers seem to share more with the Danish and Frisian...it's often said that Germanic speakers understand Doric better than the English (and western Scots??)
Altogether an intriguing and thought provoking video, much appreciated
🏴🇪🇺🏴 Seo an Latha, an uair seo tha 🏴🇪🇺🏴
Very good. Flanders was the economic heartland of Europe, north of the Alps from the 10th until the 13th century. It was a booming place where there was overpopulation. For instance Brabant, Holland and Norfolk in England developed to prominence after having been de facto economic colonies of Flanders earlier. Wasn't aware of the amount of Flemish influence on eastern Scotland. Apart from Scotland there was also major Flemish emigration to Holland, the area around Berlin, some later German parts of Romania, Pembrokeshire in Wales, and also the Atlantic islands of Portugal.
Flemish in the Portuguese islands. Now that is fascinating.
Fantastische video! :)
Dank je wel.
So interesting brilliant film 😊 my mum and dad on holiday in holland when ordering bulbs the people would not believe they came from dundee , our ancestors from 1695 onwards were flax dresses, ropers, sail makers,almost all the same name related a lot emigrated all round the world ,the buick automobile 🚘 should be buik lol 😊😊
Right you are sir! I'm a Fleming from Antwerp in Flanders. Even our children learn English very fast by looking television. And I must admit Scots is close to Flemish and even Frisian. One gentlemen is talking about family names originating from France, but he forgets to mention that these mentioned territories used to be Flanders as well.
Would be great to visit Antwerp. Even with my infantile level of Dutch it would be mor enjoyable for it. Dank je wel.
In Flemish that would be dankü wel
@@BenLlywelyn don't worry, we all speak english
@@geoffbenoy2052 thats just a more formal way of saying it, in dutch you can also say dank u wel or dank je wel
Historisch gezien is Antwerpen eigenlijk Brabants.
Part of Flanders is in NE France around Dunkerque. There are even Flemish speakers on the French side of the border.
You forget to mention Bruges as mercantile center, undoubtedly the most important one together with Ghent. Antwerp came into the fold later on. Back then 'Flanders' was a part of Burgundy which stretched from parts that are now in Holland down to Dijon in France. There were four parts of Flanders, West- and East-Flanders (still there today), Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (by the sea, now a part of Holland just across the Belgian border) and French-Flandres (in the north of France again just across the Belgian border). Flanders was incredibly wealthy and was at a peak in trade, arts and culture. I'm sure you know all that. :-)
Just looking at Flanders and its wider context could create a successful TH-cam channel of its own I am sure. My knowledge is limited and there is lots there for me to explore!
@@stoffel880 Not just that, Bruges was considered to be the "Venice of the North" with all their small canals.
I visited Ghent. My favourite beer gulden draak lol
I'm from north -east Scotland and there was lots of trade Flemish to Moray coast. My Marshall ancestors are Flemish originally, their first photos are that they are very blond and light eyed. Basically look very Dutch or German. So you might here words like:trachel ( tiring) thrang (Hardy) fleg (fright) muckle (big) chore (thief) Pech(t) (to steal)
A lovely part of the world. I would like to see the Elgin area.
You forgot biggin, noun and verb. Hoasten, coughing. Clype, a telltale. I always thought pechen was puffing and panting. I'm from Angus-Kincardineshire.
Mukker (mate) is makker in flemish! And hoose (house) is huis in flemish, but in the western flemish accent is pronounced the exact same way as in scots!
That was really interesting, as a native of West of Scotland it made perfect sense...all the non-English words I grew up hearing being spoken by my parents, and as an adult I wondered why I could understand many Dutch/Flemish words without ever having studied the languages. Still use many of the words you mentioned!
Thank you. Great to hear bridges through family with other countries.
Excellent video. Highly interesting stuff. Sadly most modern day Flemings know precious little about our medieval history, besides perhaps the battle of the golden spurs
There is a lot there for them to discover. Bedankt.
@@BenLlywelyn actually, that battle is interesting for brittish in a way because 1 it heavily mirrors the situation at agincourt
2 one of the major depictions of it is the so called courtrai chest,
the interesting thing about that chest is, well, how did it get to Great britain, it was apparantly rediscovered in a barn that belonged to I believe the university of cambridge or oxford, but it is certainly a medieval depiction of that battle
I am a Flemish descendant. My father is a Gladwyn, but my nan's maiden name is Fleming. From Armseugh near Fleming Hill Kilmarnock, Ayrshire. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Thank you kindly.
This is absolutely fascinating! Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for bringing to light some interesting aspects of Scots. The Middle Dutch of medieval Flemish settlers would have been mutually intelligible with forms of 'English' spoken throughout Scotland and northern England. It is easy to imagine how the languages would have fused quickly into Scots with some influence from Welsh.
Yes indeed, earlier England much was much closer. Thank you for watching Simon.
Gives a whole different slant on Scots history examining the language like this . Excellent video thanks
Very welcome.
@@BenLlywelyn Aye, mibbe...
1:07 the modern region of flanders is very different to the historical region of flanders
Graafschap Vlaanderen ( as it is called in dutch) were only the two most western provinces in flanders called West flanders and east flanders, while the rest is in france or the netherlands under Zeeuws Vlaanderen, Frans Vlaanderen (french flanders)
That seems sensible, a few centuries have passed. Dank je wel.
And Antwerpen and certainly Brussel, in cultural meaning, are not or have ever been or became "Flemish" and that is mostly due to the spoken language. In the time frame you are talking there is no such thing as "Dutch" or "Flemish" or (oud) Nederlands, that still has to emerge out of the old-Frankish/Germanic language, with the shifting of the linguistic patterns.
@@Naucano they have, during the 14th century the county of flanders, the duchy of brabant, were both considered culturally flemish
@@Thanadeez No, really, are you been serious ? Considered Vlaams by whom ? Rewriting history to serv modern ideas, be my guest ... maybe that is why the Brabanders fought against the damned Vlamingen in 1302 ?
@@Naucano literally look on wikipedia lmao, duchy of brabant, duchy of flanders, both were culturally flemish by the 14th century, brabant didn't really fight, it depends on wether the person was rich or poor, the richer brabanters supported the french the poorer support the flemish, flanders was also supported by namur and zeeland,
plus, just fighting each other doesn't mean they're not the same culture, look at france, their lords fought each other 24/7
No one is rewriting history to serve modern ideas, if i wanted to serve flemish nationalism i would be saying limburg was flemish, which they're not
As a Fleming, I have an ancestor who was of Scottish descent (he born in Ireland, but parents were Scottish). I discovered this through the presence of an unusual name in the family tree. He arrived in Flanders around 1600 and his Scottish surname survives to this day. So it is interesting that the two regions have much in common. Perhaps it partly explains why he chose to move to Flanders.
Interesting to learn of people going the other way.
Argentine here, from a region in the Buenos Aires province that after the spanish colonial regency departed, was very early settled by scottish cattle farmers, nowadays some of their small "camp" (Kemp) churches do still exist and I as a child with no scottish ancestry but with partly flemish, always wondered why they were named "Kirk" or "Kerke" equally to the Platt Neyderdûytsch (old flemish) wording my grandparents used to cultivate at family gatherings
Interestingly enough Argentina is the only place in the world outside Wales where welsh language is nowadays in use and taught at primary schools, altough quite far away from my province, more exactly in Chubut Province, in Patagonia
Gracias. Hopefully I can make a video about Welsh Argentina before too long! Glad to read your interest.
This was immensely interesting, great video!!
Thank you very much.
Fascinating. I had no knowledge of this. It was certainly never taught in school. Looking forward to the next video.
Thank you.
I love this video!! I'm Canadian but 100% Flanders Flemish heritage from both parents. My best buddy is of Scottish heritage and VERY proud of it. We both love to play golf (kolf).
I'm going to forward this video to him and wait for the river of humility and gratitude that will never arrive 😅
This is awesome...had no idea of the historical significance. Now I definitely need to visit Scotland.
Cool, Mark. Thank you for sharing and glad your roots found new light in my work.
Thanks for the video! Great work!
Very interesting. I always thought that Scots was merely a different development of Anglo-Saxon, without the Norman French influence.
The Dutch Flemish influence makes sense.
Vey interesting video ! Thanks for this I love Scotland and i'm from the flanders region !
Very nice. Dank je wel.
Belgians have been trading with the Picts since ancient Rome times. The Menapii (one of the seven original Belgae tribes, living near the Belgian coast) had already crossed the English channel and started settlements all across the English East coast as far North as current day Scotland. Later, when Julius Caesar tried to wipe-out the Belgians, a lot of Belgians survived by fleeing along the coast through the swampy polders into France to Britony. Then they crossed the channel and arrived in South England (where they saw that the surrounding land was almost the same as that where they came from, only bigger, and they called the land "the greater Britony". Cities like Blackpool and Brighton were originally Belgian survivor settlements. Most of the refugees settled in what now is Wales, though.
Trade between Belgia and Pictland is entirely reasonable, and if we had more information on that it could be a good additional, shorter video.
I am taken back by the information you just presented. This answers so many questions . I knew Scotts was a Germanic Dialect. But did not know it was Flemish/Dutch. Now I know. Heard they still speak it in Northern Ireland. This also helped explain the some of the differences between the highland and lowland Scotts.
Hi there. I would not say it IS Flemish/Dutch. I would say that through Anglic, it was already very, very close, and that Flemish settlers helped it to maintain that closeness. Anyway, I am very happy to have helped you and that you enjoyed the video. Thank you.
You use the term dialect completely wrong, and Scots is similar to Dutch in the same way that English is: they’re members of the West Germanic language group
@@masonharvath-gerrans832 Ok. Tell me more. What else do you know.
@@eze9057 dialect is used for a form of a language that is not distinct enough from the standard language to be a completely separate language. The West Germanic languages are themselves divided into four different groups: Anglo-Frisian, which consists of English, Scots and Frisian, then Low German, consisting of Low Saxon and similar languages, then Low Franconian, consisting of Dutch and its dialects, and finally High German, consisting of Upper-Saxon-Thuringian, Allemanic (including Swiss German) and Austro-Bavarian.
Fascinating video :) much love from Flanders
Dank je wel.
I'm Scottish and have lived in the Netherlands for 14 years. I speak fluent Dutch like a native, people are often surprised that im not Dutch. It's always amazed me how many Dutch words are comparable with Scots words. A lot of Fries words are even more similar than Dutch. I also work in Antwerp most months but I've never made the Flemish connection. Being a native Scottish speaker is definitely one of the reasons i picked up Dutch very quickly. Incredible to learn about the history of how these languages have intermingled and evolved through the years. Thank you!
You are welcome. And thank you for your story. Bridges are good.
Guess this has some connection to how (now) friends from across the pond were getting mad when I told em I was belgian/flemish.. they used to get mad and call me a liar as I for whatever reason developed a hybrid accent (I’d say) between scottish and northern irish.
Obviously I left out any doubt when I started speaking Flemish and that’s where some Scottish individuals were like.. why does some of this sound familiar (bits and pieces). Never knew but this does explain it a wee bit.
Wow this explains the similarities I heard between Scottish and Flemish accents.
Excellent bridges.
Very interesting. I was wondering why I could understand some Scottish words.
Do note that these 'Flemings' at the time are not the people from Flanders, but mostly the people form West and Easy Flanders. Antwerp I don't know if they also had part in it because it's been part of Brabant but Limburg had mostly interactions and history with Southern Netherlands cities like Maastricht and the Rhineland cities of Köln and Aachen so that's an entire different history we've got apart from both Flanders or the Netherlands. 😊
Great job Ben, well researched and explained. Would love to know your references on the original migration to Scotland by the Flemish bourgeois
Thank you. The book by Alexander Fleming says most of it, in the video description for you. Also did reading on a few articles.
@@BenLlywelyn many thanks Ben!
as a flamish guy, this is amazing :D thanks for making the video!
Cheers. Dank je wel, glad you enjoyed it.
@@BenLlywelyn inderdaad, het was zeer fijn om naar te kijken :D take care!
Fascinating video. I didnt know of the Flemish influence on Scots. I always presumed more Germanic sounding words in Scots, like many you mentioned, had come from Northumbrian origins of Scots. When do you think the Brythonic/ Welsh language finally died out in southern Scotland? I understand the Kingdom of Strathclyde ( Alt Clut ) survived until into 11th century and was conquered by the Gaelic speaking kingdom of Alba, but the area still kept its Brythonic identity into the 13th century. There are many towns and areas in southern Scotland that have Brythonic based place names.
It is quite difficult to say. People carried Welsh or Brythinic echoing names as far as 1400, but that does not mean they were speaking Welsh - just aware of heritage. I would say some small rural pockets could have lasted until 1300, but that is a stretch. 1200 to 1250 is likely for rhe last community losing its language.
@@BenLlywelyn do you think that Pictish was in the same branch as Welsh/Cumbrian or a different branch?
@@paulthomas8262 I think Pictish was already a very distinct dialect of British when Rome came. And then as Welsh formed out of British & Latin, the Pictish kept evolving on their own path without Latin, and increasingly later, Irish.
@@BenLlywelyn place name like Aberdeen sound welsh but you also have abha/abhainn from Irish (old Irish Aub)
bh being a v sound
As someone from Flanders, this explains why I understand Limmy & other Scottisch comedians seemingly easily. Great video & insights
Another Vlaming like myself who enjoys the sublime comedy of limmy? Zalig
@@hansmemling2311 Zalig inderdaad. Ik vraag mij af hoeveel er zo zijn.
The guttural "ch" as in "loch" exists in Gaelic too and was written as "gh" in Old English ("eight" etc.) That sound was lost in Modern English as English pronuciation became for French and Latin influenced. P.S. Regarding he pronuciation of "Scone" - the town is pronounced "Skone" with a long "O" and the biscuit is pronouned "skon" with a short "o", at least here in Australia.
Thank you. Scones are tasty.
There's also a town in Scotland called 'Scone' (pronounced 'Skoon'), which is another possibility as to where the name for scones come from. So maybe everybody's wrong and they're supposed to be pronounced /skoon/!
@@h-Qalziel Probabably difference between Scottish and Australian pronunciations. There ia town in New South Wales (Australia) called Scone, it's called "Skone" by the locals. Perhaps it's a bit like the pronunciation of Perth. - "pairth" for the town in Scotland and "purth" for the city in Western Australia.
Eight, 8, is pronounced acht in Flemish just as in loch. And we have also sch that only Flemish and Dutch can pronounse (schip, schreeuw - try this one, schouw, schrijven...)
@@BenLlywelyn Very, and difficult to bake
Fascinating story and a people!
Fascinating, Thank you!!!
Nice.
Afrikaans, which is spoken in South Africa, developed mostly from Dutch and French. When you simply read Flemish on goods imported from Belgium, you can understand it, though obviously the pronunciation will differ. We had friends who spoke Scottish Gaelic and many words are the same in Afrikaans.
Afrikaans would be so useful to have as a gateway into other languages.
@@BenLlywelyn You are so right. I have just found the Language sites, & have been testing my understanding of tongues. To my surprise, & delight, I have discovered that my Afrikaans enables me to read what my English does not. The Dutch vocabulary opens doors without all the complicated gender rules & grammar.
As are the Dutch and Scots churches very close. My Scottish great grandfather was educated in Holland in theology. He immigrated to South Africa in the 1870's where he met and married a Boer miesie.
Great video, really! Thank you for share knowledge. It is very noble.
Im glad you enjoyed it Bianca.
This is very interesting, thank you ! I would have loved to hear you elaborate on the Flemish origins of place names like Symington or Lambinton, and surnames like Cameron, Crawford or Murray... I as a native Flemish speaker don't see any equivalent in Flemish. I'm probably missing something
Many Flemish took Scots Gaelic clan names.
As a Scotsman interested in history I really enjoyed this video. Im now going outside as its a braw bricht nicht the nicht. 😜🏴👍
Nice one. Thanks for watching fellow.
@@BenLlywelyn Nae bother mucker. Aw thi best!😁🏴👍
My ancestors lived in Aalst and were often called as Coucke, Coecke or Coecke van Aalst. They worked in the clothing industry in Aalst. It is possible some of them moved to Scotland, and maybe the name adapted to Cook(e).
Possible.
Very interesting ! greetings from Brugge 🙂
Thank you Jan.
hi mate ,love your vids . i have an interest in placenames of fife and wondered how you would translate "coet beit " from a poem in book of talesin i think . im finding a defintion for beit v difficult
Baedd is boar. Probably that. But it could also be a lost version of bedw (birches). And thank you.
Much of the ideas you used in this video are very strong around Aberdeenshire. So, a person in Fife might not be so familiar, although they may have come into contact via workers who came to Fife to build. But, living on the coast of Fife would have put you in direct contact with the Flemish as they came into ports. They had a system of carrying ballast in the form of roof tiles (pan tiles), which they left in the seaside villages when they collected fish.
When I can do this full time and travel around Britain making videos about it, I will need to remember that about Fife. A beautiful area.
@@BenLlywelyn not just Fife, but also the fishing villages in East Lothian have an over-abundance of pan-tile roofs. From my late father's stories, pan tiles were still being used as ballast in the early 20th century
As the Lindsay's origin from the Flemming, Gilbert de Ghent(Companion to William of Normandy) third son who was Walter of Lindissia (spelling?, the now section of Lincolnshire named Lindsey, part of Gilbert's holdings) Walter was a Companion of Prince David. Walter signed the document, 'Inquest into the See of Glasgow', in 1104 and followed David to Scotland to take the Crown, when his older brother Alexander died. Over 900 years in Scotland, Gilbert, was three lines of descent from Charlemagne.
The medieval nobles did not stray far from their bloodlines.
Me being dutch, I love to tease Scotisch people who say lockness. There is that sound again you refer to in your vid, like in dochter.
Fascinating. I am South African with Scottish blood. Afrikaans makes great use of the ch, & I have long wondered how the Scottish had it & the English could not do it. Thanks for enlightening me.
You are welcome!
I'm Flemish, partly from Dutch and German ancestry and I was completely unaware of this. Stuff we were never taught in school! Flanders nowadays is the Dutch speaking Northern half of Belgium, as many of you may know. The French speaking Southern half is called Wallonia, stemming from the same etymological root as Wales.
Historically the Flemish language (or dialect) was spoken in the area from Duinkerken (Dunkurque) and Rijsel (Lille) in Northern France up to the counties surrounding Bruges and Ghent all the way up to rhe Dutch province of Zeeland. Our "ch" and "g" tends to be much softer, the way the Scottish pronouce it reminisces a lot more to Holland Dutch, which is far more guttural. Flanders also comprises the regions of Brabant, Antwerp (which used to be a part of Brabant) and Limburg. To make it more confusing, the Netherlands also have a Province called Brabant and one called Limburg.
Thanks to you. I did not know Lille had a Dutch-Flemish name. Cheers
@@BenLlywelyn most cities in Belgium even have different names in other languages. it doesn't help that we kinda invented some of them within our borders😅So get ready to be confused. eg: Antwerpen, Anvers and Ambéres are all just Antwerp.
Great point on the use of TAE. I find structural elements define the direction of perspective in a language. The 'tae-redd' completely shifts the role of action,coming from an English-Am. Brain.
Thank you.
I wanna know more about this 😄
I will need to read the book!
@@BenLlywelyn 1302 golden Spurs battle?
A notable Flemish victory.
Bucht, at least in today's Flanders, actually means rubbish.
I was not aware of the etymology of the word but it apparently comes from a enclosed piece of land.
It's cognate bocht refers to a bend in the road.
Very interesting, i was not aware of the Flemish link with Scotland.
Very interesting. My great, great grandfather came from Hobkirk, Roxburghshire and the whole family were 'wool weavers'. One daughter was a 'twistler' whatever that was!
A great history of trade and honest work there.
Love your video
The name Fleming was also spelled Fleeming on older records in Scotland a few generations ago.
Wonder of any modern names came from this alternate spelling.
@@BenLlywelyn I could be wrong but it could be the time when Scotland's aristocrats got a taste for sending their kids to learn English with that posh accent and overnight (well, maybe about ten years) Scots went from a prestige language to being infantilised in Scotland. Broun was recorded as a surname before this time, Brown after. Etc. The anglicised spelling. Not sure if that's the same with Fleeming to Fleming. Could be!
Lol. With a Belgian father and Welsh mother kind of trippy video.
That sounds like fun.
The Flemish kick ass!
As a Highlander i found Dutch easy to pick up when i worked in The Netherlands.
🥂🥂🥂🥂🍾🍾🍾🍾 very accurated your clip bro, very deepest. Requires a talent in historical, military and linguistical science knowledge to intuite, differ each part of content inside of you information.
From both sides, mother and father, I’m descendant from 13th century Scottish heritage due to the trade monopoly of Scottish wool in the city of Veere in Zeeland , the Southern province of the Netherlands, near Flanders
Both sides, all the way back. That is some serious wool industry heritage.
Amazing interesting and educational video. Now I also know why Scottish football fans are mild beer drinkers. Greetings from Flanders!
Mild beer drinkers! Good one.
I worked the other way around also, I'm Flemish with Scottisch ancestors in my dna.
Some other famous Scottish families that are of Flemmish descent are the Douglas and the Sutherland famalies.
Especially interesting the names they took on. Douglas comes from Old Welsh (Du-glas) or Old Irish (Dubh Glas).
@@BenLlywelyn They took the names of the areas of land that they settled in Scotland. I forgot to mention the Innes family being of Flemmish descent, and Innes being the name of their land.
Very interesting video
Growing up in Moray I'm used to speaking Scots (Doric), and aware of the Flemish Dutch influence on the language.
Recently I found out more about the Plantation of Moray by King David 1st to suppress the "Men of Moray" who had been a thorn in the side of the Scots kings and challenging for the throne. Macbeth was the last king from Moray.
The footprints of Banff, Elgin, Forres, Auldearn and Dingwall were all designed by a Flemish man and the people planted there Flemish, English, Norman to both suppress and create economic development.
There are a few notable names from Moray of Flemish descent like John Comyn (The Red Comyn) murdered by Robert De Brus (of Norman descent), and Andrew De Murray who was the brains behind the victory of Stirling Bridge now attributed to William Wallace (A Strathclyde Welsh name).
Although i know and use many of the words within the video (Kirk, redd, tae, echt, stane, douchter etc,) I've never heard of some of the others though e.g. Bucht, kittenler, neist, snel
On a visit to just over the old border to Alnwick near Newcastle I found they used many of the dane words as I do. This re-enforces the impact across much of the North East of Britain.
The Norman invasion of 1066 had an incredible impact through the whole of the British isles with their dynastic footprint stretching across the centuries to the highest parts of society e.g. the present royal family with Stuart bloodline.
And pronounce scone as "skon".
Thank you for watching. Moray would be a fascinating place to grow up. As you say, Normans changed everything, and Moray never regained itself.
@@BenLlywelyn Yes, the remains of Norman motte and bailey castles abound here, but it's still a beautiful part of the North East of Scotland and peaceful too ✌️
I had always been taught that Kitk was Norwegian as well as hoose. I must admit the others I didn't recognise as an Edinburgh person.
It was a long time ago.
Anyone know anything on the Breingan surname history, apparently they’re Flemish that moved to Scotland but I need more info
I've never come across that name before. Certainly has a Scottish feeling to it.
@@BenLlywelyn cheers Ben
18:02 Scone is pronounced pretty much the same in West-Flemish.
True!
True!!!!
Another fantastic video. Would King David have been that keen to get everyone in Scotland to speak Scots/Inglis since his great-grandfather had been the last Irish-speaking king of Scotland? It seems like the Cumbrians adopted English/Inglis on both sides of the border and the Picts adopted Gaelic, since the kingdoms had been merged much earlier than with Strathclyde.
King David's control over the Highlands was minimal.at best. Gaelic was abl to expand and grow in prestige due to it being outside the control of the King and with leaders of high rank in their own right.
Wow another interesting video, just when you think ure knowledge is increasing more old incredible information pertaining scotland comes out
I can see bits of Flemish in the way us dundonians speak schemey oary (common dundee language)
I will have to see Scotland north of St. Andrews.
@@BenLlywelyn Och eh ye do mate.
Language wise is different planets - the nice grammatical English that the fowk use in St Andrews compared ti Dundonian and further noth Doric is mental
To red up the house is also said in USA Pennsylvania, influence of Pennsylvania Dutch which is spoken by old German immigrants.
I probably have some ancestry there somewhere. We'll see when the DNA test comes.
Wow ! I didn't know anything about that, very interesting ! Diolch yn fawr
Croeso!
You are using current english pronounciations. Dochter and daughter have very similar pronunciations in middle english. R was rolled up to early modern times. Kirk is a very common place name element in northern english. placenames. Ormskirk and Kirkdale.
Yes, I am. Thank you Robert for watching.
The baronies of Forth and Bargy of what's today Co Wexford in Ireland were colonised by people from Flanders in the late 12th Century. Right down to the 19th Century they spoke a variant of Middle English called Yola. Might be worth a vid to compare with Scots?
That is indeed fascinating. I would have to learn quite a bit more about it before I attempted a video, but it is worth a video if I get beyond this history series I am doing and get the reading done.
Heel interessant.
Dank je wel
Diolch yn fawr! What a fascinating story. I had no idea.
Croeso.
In your clip you designed military deals and tractings between britain and normand and cornishes in south of UK.
In north, west of UK its very different, Wales and Scotland are partners together with some irishes, Manxishes, norwegians, dutches and flemishes to not be assimilades by England. Theses aliances its the principles and bases of britain vs wales/scotland wars in UK military and civil history.
Manx is the plural.
@@BenLlywelyn ah, yes i ve seen others clips they use manx like singular to not confuses with word man.
That's why i use the term manxishes. Thanks partner.
@@BenLlywelyn the word to indicate the singular for manx is?
1:27 I don't think that's right. Brussels was a tiny hamlet until modern times if I'm not mistaken. I think you mean Bruges instead.
Possible.
Brussels was not flanders in that time and Brussels is still not flanders. The flanders talked about in the video was called the County of Flanders. This was flanders from 862 to 1795.
@@VandeVisscher That is also true but it's not clear whether in the video they mean Flanders sensu stricto (the Western part) or Flanders sensu lato (the modern day meaning).
@@mistersir3020 I assume that if speaking of that period in time you refer to flanders from at that time. It would be quite confusing to speak about a older time in history but using a term which refers to a much later time in history. If speaking of flanders today it should be specified. Brussels was and is still not a part of flanders. Back in that time Brussels was part of Brabant and now Brussels is part of Belgium.
small sidenote, about half of what is now known as Flanders was actually the duchy of Brabant, whose colours influenced the Belgian flag, Antwerp and Brussels were cities in this duchy, as were the dutch cities of Eindhoven and Breda... but flanders and brabant could be considered twins, the biggets difference being that Brabant was de jure landlocked, even tho de facto it had the scheldt estuary, and with zeeland still mostly being small islands, a direct connection to the sea. actually the heraldry of Flanders and brabant is eachother's opposite... a lion in sable on a field of gold with tongue and claws of gueles... the brabant coat of arms was a lion of gold on a field of sable, also with red tongue and claws, and is the official coat of arms of Belgium today. there was also the county of Loon, belonging to the prince bishopric of Liege, nowadays known as Belgian Limburg.
Thank you. Belgium has far more wealth of culture than I had taken for.
Interesting.
Thanks.
As a Dutchman to be honest, some words eluded me. I also heard that the old Frisians (not the current ones, they came from Denmark and Germany) emigrated to Scotland after the Romans left the low countries at around 350 AD. I don't know if that is true, but it could also be a part of the story.
The east Lowland Scotland spoke Old Welsh until the 8th century. Maybe further south?
Not forgetting Yola in Waterford
Thank you.
interesting though it is, one can test this theory by looking at the anlo saxon language rather the English which shows many of those words would have been in use prior to the norman invaision.
Saxon, especially northern dialects more Anglic, would have been very close to esrlier Flemish.
@@BenLlywelynwhen you consider European migration tends to be east to west and that the angles, jutes and saxons were arriving in Britain from circa 449 AD, some 100+ years before flanders was first recorded, with its name disputed as coming from either, proto-german, old high german or old norse. It would seem Flemish is not a standalone root language. I know from translating between young scots and English lads in the armed forces how close Scots and Geordie are. Found many similarities when working in Demark, after having learned basic German from a German who comented how northern british people pronounce german words more acurately generally, than southern english.
@@geordiemoss5587 All language is a continuum.
@@geordiemoss5587 Indeed, a lot of likenesses between those languages. Dutch is fascinating for me with English as my 1st language.
@@BenLlywelyn exactly my point, with the spread of peoples to the west and the existance of flanders as part of the frankish empire prior to its independance there would appear to be more languages derrived from old german in northern europe and latin in the south. I remember an article years ago that stated the nearest to the (then) Queens English was spoken in Edingburgh, with the north east having the most similarity to Anglo Saxon. Ironically Edingburgh being a major settlement of Northumbria prior to incursion across the forth by the Kingdom of Alba.
I’m from northeast Scotland (huntly) we called swim trunks Dookers
Fascinating. Thank you.
There is also I canna ( I can't ) from ik kan niet...East neuk in Fife ... hoek
Flemish engineers harnessed rivers to turn millwheels. Scotland's topography offers far more opportunities for water power than further south.
That is fascinating as there is some maritime influence in my family. Thank you.
Watched this on tv but had to log in to the pc to comment - I am from Midlothian. In our county we have the town of Penicuik which in ancient Brythonic means Pen Y Gog - Hill of the Cuckoo, that ancient language is preserved in the name of the town. And on Traprain Law (Dunpender) in East Lothian we have the ancient seat of the Goddodin ( i think they were referred to as the Votadini by the Romans). Their king was King Loth - as in Lothian the name of our county. As a lad i was confused by the similar legends in Wales as we have here in Scotland- King Arthur etc - yet we have Arthur's Seat an extinct volcano in Edinburgh (Din Eiydin). Then i realised that we were the original lands of the Britons - so when they were pushed down though Cumbria (Cymru) into modern Wales they took their legends with them. So for me King Arthur was from 'here' in the lothians - and Merlin was from Drumelzier, in the Scottish borders. Also i find words like Esk - we have rivers in Midlothian named South and North Esk, In Angus we have the north esk, In the western Borders we have the Border Esk and in Wales we have the Usk. Clearly this just means River in an ancient tongue.
Also the fact that most scots Irish and Welsh are from the R-M269 DNA Haplogroup means we are all kin. except those invaders that now populate England and hence why we Celtic/Brythonic nations side with each other in the Six Nations rugby tournament lol
Edinburgh is the most beautiful city on these islands in my opinion. A tragedy we Welsh lost hold of it.
@@BenLlywelyn your welcome once per year to Murrayfield 🤣🤣🤣
“The borders” of Scotland are gorgeous, you all should visit if you can. I am Scottish, my maiden name is Spowart, I’ve heard it’s of Flemish origin, does anybody know? I can’t find much on it.
Spowart is as Scottish as can be from what I can make out. It is definitely of some West Germanic root be it Dutch, Flemish or Frisian. Maybe even German. It seems this was someone from those lands who camd to Scotland early, but settled outside the typical burroughs so the local Scots could not pronounce the name and it altered over time from something similar into being Spowart, due to local accents.
@@BenLlywelyn thank you for the response!! Cut me down the middle and you’ll find a Saltire inside it seems!!
😊💙🏴
Many of the words you mention are also common in northern England. But English dialects are frowned upon in England especially by the education establishment. You are definitely uneducated if you use anything like dialect in speech and writing. The Queen's English is what is required. Also the original Angles and so on were basically Frisians so were Flemish in origin themselves. That all changed with William at Hastings and we had French imposed on us.
Yes, RP English became the courtly language so to speak of the early modern era. The prestige.
Well done, just the map of Flanders you show in the beginning is the modern (after 1830) concept of Flanders. Traditionally only the west was Flanders (part of France), The middel was/is Brabant and the east was/is Limburg. Not being Flemish at the time of your story amd part of the Holy Roman Empire....
Fair enough. There is a lot more.to explore.with Flanders.
I am Flemish and did not know this.
I was not aware of this connection between Flanders and Scotland.
But there might be a similarity that there both rebelious against the country there part of.
Was Calvinism present there as it was in Scotland?
@@BenLlywelyn don't think so.
Mostly catholic with some small pockets of protestants.
I am not a historian so I could be wrong here.
The Netherlands is more protestant, Flanders is more catholic.
I am not sure why.
I think Flanders remained more catholic due to the fact that the low countries at one point became part of catholic Spain.
Something that resulted in the 80 year war between the low countries and Spain.
The Spanish hgot good foothold in the Flemish region but showed incapable of getting control over Holland.
But it still had to fight some big battles in Flanders to remain or expand it's control.
Only I don't know if Spain got a foothold in Flanders because it was more catholic or that we remained more catholic because of the Spanish occupation.
i'm not sure about how our ancestors prononounced the CH, but you're prononouncing it like the modern dutch people ,which is pretty harsh..., in flanders it's actually a soft sound. I don't know how to explain but you ch shouldn't sound like you're scraping something, but sound constant like for example a tv channel without reception , but again more softly.
then for schoon you just use the same ch sound with an s infront of it ... use the some o sound of scone and that's it.
My pronunciation is lacking, be forewarned.
There is a great book about it, Scotland and the Flemish people.
It would be a good book to read.
keene and kye are a herd and cow, both are Flemish or Dutch, and were in broad Scots.
Fascinating bridges between. Thank you.
If Scone is derived from the Dutch word 'schoon', then the pronunciation should be Scone as in 'alone'. However, in the Flemish pronunciation of Schoon it would sound more like Scoin, as in 'Doing', with the o sound being similar to the o sound in the Scottish pronunciation of the word Scotland
Lots of going back and forth I'm sure.
Haven't even watched the video yet and already, I am simpping!
Nice.
The progenitor of Clan Douglas was also a Fleming. My ancestors. I decend from most of the Flemish names you listed in the video. I knew about Fleming, Bruce, and Douglas. I didn't know about Haye or Murray. I am also an Oliphant decendant and that seems like a non Scottish surname.
Hey thank you, glad you value the content! If you enjoyed that video check out this one I just made tonight on Scottish place names: th-cam.com/video/-1FfW_YJQAk/w-d-xo.html
Douglases descend from Freskin or a male cousin of his. The more you know.