Master Form is also my favourite form :) I really enjoy its mix of Valor and Wisdom. I also got it really early in a rando which was super fun. I think my ranking would be 5: Valor (I miss magic) 4: Limit (Same reason. I just have a KH1 bias) 3: Final (Very broken) 2: Wisdom (I really like the slippery movement ngl) 1: Master (IT'S SOOOO COOL) Good video👍
I kinda disagree with the list as I put Valor at the bottom due to its lack of guard and magic (Limit has guard, and the others allow for Reflect), but it's totally your choice. It's normally not an issue in a casual playthrough, but the Hot Rod Heartless killed me enough on Crit to value Guard and Dodge Roll more than other abilities. Assuming no uses of inventory, my list would be the following (and my rationale for why, though I have a tl;dr version at the bottom if you wanna skip the wall of text): 1) Limit a) Zantetsuken is the strongest finisher (and single hit attack, really) in the game while being super efficient in execution speed, so having Combo Boost makes it even stronger. Having two of them thanks to Decisive Pumpkin makes Limit even better. Probably one of the best forms for bosses and 1v1 fights due to how good Zantetsuken is. b) Zantetsu Counter exists as a strong counterattack, and Finishing Plus allows for two of them. c) Limits restoring HP per action makes them superior to Cure since you don't need to waste the entire MP gauge to heal Sora. Their I-Frames also help a ton. d) Dodge Roll is SUPER good in this form, and Limit Form brought it back after it was missing in Vanilla KH2 (as Quick Run was originally a replacement for Dodge Roll, and it sucked when compared to Dodge Roll). e) Only requires 4 Drive, and you don't need to sacrifice party members. This allows it to be used in any boss battle after it's unlocked (unlike the others that require party members since some fights [like the 1,000 Heartless fight] are solo fights). f) It's the only form to keep Guard, which is a huge plus. g) Ripple Drive is still a solid AoE finisher. h) Has MP Haste and MP Rage. The former helps with more Limits (recharge is 33.33s if you have the Wisdom Form's MP Haste level-up skill and 22.22s if you add that and the Ultima Weapon) while the latter isn't super useful unless if you strategically take damage to get an extra limit in. i) Draw and Lucky Lucky are decent level-up abilities. They aren't the most useful if you're doing a speedrun, but they're decent utilities in general. j) Only major downside, IMO, is the lack of magic. Again, Limits more than make up for that, IMO. k) You can definitely argue that other forms are better for AoE combat (besides Valor), but it can still handle mobs decently well thanks to Ripple Drive and Sonic Drive (it's VERY easy to level up Limit form during the 1,000 Heartless fight). l) Keeping Slide Dash as an ability here makes it super easy to get to enemies fast. You do need to be better at positioning your attacks in other forms than with Limit (mostly when comparing Limit to Valor, really, since Valor can only attack while the other forms still keep magic or limits). m) I like Sora's color scheme from KH1 (KH1 Sora is my favorite design of them all, IMO), so I think this form looks neat. 2) Final a) Basically Master Form but better. b) Two Keyblades allow for an extra ability to be used (Bond of Flame is great as the sub due to Firaga being great in this form). c) Improved magic is awesome since you keep the mobility of Wisdom. Crime and Punishment is superior to Master Magic and Magic Spice. d) Only has MP Haste when compare to Master's MP Hastera or Wisdom's double MP Hastega, but it's better than nothing. If you have Circle of Life and Ultima Weapon both equipped along with the MP Haste that you get upon getting level 6 Wisdom, recharge time is just 20 seconds. Otherwise, it gets a recharge time of 33s if you have that one MP Haste from the Wisdom leveling or 25s if you do Wisdom's MP Haste + Ultima Weapon. e) Keyblades doing extra hits while doing various actions makes it great for a lot of scenarios. f) It does drain your drive resources fast since it requires 5 drive and both party members. g) Pretty much outclasses Master in all practical ways (besides MP Haste vs. Master's MP Hastera), but you get it right before you beat the game, so it's mostly used for the final stretch and the post-game. h) Glide is great. i) Form Boost is a great level-up ability, and you get two of them from Final. j) Cool color scheme. 3) Wisdom a) Double MP Hastega + Ultima Weapon is great for recharging MP fast. Assuming you have MP Haste (level-up ability from Wisdom that is a 1.25x multiplier) and the three MP Hastegas (2 for Wisdom, 1 for Ultima), then you would only have a recharge time of 14.29s. With other Keyblades, the recharge time is 18.18s, which is still very respectable and is only rivaled by a fully decked out Master form. b) Magic Spice is great for the spells. Some argue that Master Magic is better, but I do like Magic Spice more mostly for Fire and Blizzard. c) Cost is only 3 drive, and you get it relatively early in the game. d) It does require Donald to use, so it can't be used in some fights. e) Quick Run is OK. It has use cases for dodging attacks, but I find the other growth abilities more useful. f) Keeping mobility while casting magic is a boon. g) Data Demyx says "Hi." h) Its level-up abilities are MP Haste (amazing) and MP Rage (not as useful, but still has cases in lower difficulties). i) I do like the color blue. 4) Master a) I dislike its attack string. Its combo string takes forever to finish. b) It's great for taking care of mobs since its combo finishers are wide and it has infinite magic chains. I would never use this for serious boss fights, however. c) Wisdom has better magic recharging, but Master's MP Hastera does make it recharge faster than Final and Limit (28.57s with MP Haste skill + Master, 20s with Ultima Weapon + MP Haste + Master, and 18.18s if you do Circle of Life + MP Haste + Ultima Weapon + Master). d) I prefer how Wisdom controls while casting magic over Master, so I prefer that form over this one. e) 4 Drive + Both Party Members is a bigger cost than 3 Drive + Donald, but Master is partner agnostic, so there are use cases where you would want to use Goofy + Disney/Riku over Goofy + Donald that necessitate Master over Wisdom. f) Aerial Dodge is a great growth ability, but I usually just grind Master for base Sora to use instead of relying on this form to dodge since I dislike its physical combat and Wisdom has better scenarios to use magic. g) The two Air Combo Plus abilities it gives as level-up abilities are nice. h) Great for Mushroom VIII. i) I dislike the color yellow. 5) Valor a) No guarding, so you need to either high jump or parry attacks to not get hit. b) No magic, so you need items to heal. Furthermore, no magic means that you're only attacking with your attack string, and that string takes some time to complete (not as long as Master's finisher, however). c) It requires Goofy, so you can't use it in several fights that you can use Limit in. d) It does look cool though. e) The Combo Plus abilities are nice level-up bonuses. f) Limit having Zantetsuken and Ripple Drive as combo finishers while also having Guard and Limits as forms of healing make it pretty much superior to Valor in all ways. g) High Jump is a good utility, but most players will just grind out Valor and then avoid using it in Late Game scenarios once other forms are unlocked. h) Red is OK, but I prefer it with other colors instead of it and black being the only two colors. tl;dr: Your list is great, and you should totally do more videos! I disagree with it, however, as my order from best to worst is the following: 1) Limit 2) Final 3) Wisdom 4) Master 5) Valor You do you, however.
I'm a Wisdom From enjoyer: it's arguably my favorite drive form, even if it's perhaps the weakest? Slap Negative Combo on with like the Photon Debugger and kite around while carpetbombing the area with lightning. Admittedly Master's infinite magic combos is more fluid, if less flashy and final is just goddamned broken.
Valor form has no block or access to magic. It's honestly more of a liability or a desperation move than a viable strategy, especially at higher difficulties
@@yakkowakko1705 feels like it controls better to me, I enjoy the ability to jump to a finisher whenever I please, the animations are satisfying, and a tinge of baseless personal bias on top of all of that based in my playstyle.
@@BlueThunderKeyKing776 it’s pretty good in that sense but having no magic at all in your disposable and having the combos have slow first initial input lag kinda makes it obsolete in the later parts of the game
@@yakkowakko1705 Hence why I believe Master Form stands above it. It remedies all those problems at about the halfway point in the game, standing as the perfect upgrade at the cost of losing both party members instead of just Goofy.
@@BUGMECH14 Oooooh, not a bad idea! But, each game would definitely have to be a separate video lol. Doing them all in one would take ages. But I will take that idea, put it on the pinboard, and credit you for inspiration in the script! Thanks!
How is the form that can't evade or block attacks number 2? Wisdom and Final aren't great in that regard, but at least I can still launch out of the way or throw up a Reflect spell.
@@dustinbragg1921 because enemies are almost always buried under the flurry of attacks you dish out before you're ever in any real danger. Throw Decisive Pumpkin and another Strength oriented Keyblade on Valor and watch the HP bar just disintegrate.
@@BlueThunderKeyKing776 Cars. Enemies with I-frames, no flinch, and/or revenge attacks can't be stunlocked to death, but you can't block, dodge, or use magic. Valor is fun, but you have no flexibility in it. If you don't unga bunga your enemies in one go with your caveman power you're smoked. If it still had blocking as a usable action Valor would be a solid 3rd in my book (Final is 2nd because even though it's so powerful and appealing it burns out *_so fast,_* and Master is 1rst for the same reasons as in the video).
I always liked valor form design and animation wise but in comparison to limit form I say it's damage is lacking for the fact you cannot block OR roll during the form and with no way to heal outside of items. Also I like seeing you just rank them based off of your opinion primarily and not which one is that useful, which is always nice to see
@@Plyskin05when I saw Limit form that low and Valor form that high, the first thing I thought of was that this video was made for the engagement, to get people to comment on this one. Like what we are doing lol
I get it’s all personal bias but yeah man I couldn’t disagree more, maybe it’s cause I play on critical mode (maybe you do to idk). My list would be more like 1. Final 2. Wisdom 3. Master 4. Valour But yeah without a guard/dodge roll/ air dodge it’s the worst form, it has 0 defensive options if not for access to items I’d argue it leaves you more open then Anti Form since anti at least lets you attack fast enough to parry incoming damage. Master is great though I can’t argue with that, you still can’t block but you have access to reflect for defensive options and the aerial dodge is great, I just rank it lower then Wisdom because if I’m changing form to do more magic damage I’d go wisdom over master, and it’s rare that I’m just looking for better melee combos. Wisdom is just really good at what it does, it has a niche and any fights where I need magic like post game demyx it’s a no brainer. And final is absolutely so good it makes the other forms redundant but I gotta love how well designed it is. Every action encircles you in Keyblades, allowing for both offence and defence so you don’t even mind not having a block or dodge roll. You can parry incoming attacks by jumping, or casting magic. Doing critical lingering will with no items you really appreciate all the subtle details of final form.
Master Form is also my favourite form :)
I really enjoy its mix of Valor and Wisdom. I also got it really early in a rando which was super fun.
I think my ranking would be
5: Valor (I miss magic)
4: Limit (Same reason. I just have a KH1 bias)
3: Final (Very broken)
2: Wisdom (I really like the slippery movement ngl)
1: Master (IT'S SOOOO COOL)
Good video👍
I kinda disagree with the list as I put Valor at the bottom due to its lack of guard and magic (Limit has guard, and the others allow for Reflect), but it's totally your choice. It's normally not an issue in a casual playthrough, but the Hot Rod Heartless killed me enough on Crit to value Guard and Dodge Roll more than other abilities.
Assuming no uses of inventory, my list would be the following (and my rationale for why, though I have a tl;dr version at the bottom if you wanna skip the wall of text):
1) Limit
a) Zantetsuken is the strongest finisher (and single hit attack, really) in the game while being super efficient in execution speed, so having Combo Boost makes it even stronger. Having two of them thanks to Decisive Pumpkin makes Limit even better. Probably one of the best forms for bosses and 1v1 fights due to how good Zantetsuken is.
b) Zantetsu Counter exists as a strong counterattack, and Finishing Plus allows for two of them.
c) Limits restoring HP per action makes them superior to Cure since you don't need to waste the entire MP gauge to heal Sora. Their I-Frames also help a ton.
d) Dodge Roll is SUPER good in this form, and Limit Form brought it back after it was missing in Vanilla KH2 (as Quick Run was originally a replacement for Dodge Roll, and it sucked when compared to Dodge Roll).
e) Only requires 4 Drive, and you don't need to sacrifice party members. This allows it to be used in any boss battle after it's unlocked (unlike the others that require party members since some fights [like the 1,000 Heartless fight] are solo fights).
f) It's the only form to keep Guard, which is a huge plus.
g) Ripple Drive is still a solid AoE finisher.
h) Has MP Haste and MP Rage. The former helps with more Limits (recharge is 33.33s if you have the Wisdom Form's MP Haste level-up skill and 22.22s if you add that and the Ultima Weapon) while the latter isn't super useful unless if you strategically take damage to get an extra limit in.
i) Draw and Lucky Lucky are decent level-up abilities. They aren't the most useful if you're doing a speedrun, but they're decent utilities in general.
j) Only major downside, IMO, is the lack of magic. Again, Limits more than make up for that, IMO.
k) You can definitely argue that other forms are better for AoE combat (besides Valor), but it can still handle mobs decently well thanks to Ripple Drive and Sonic Drive (it's VERY easy to level up Limit form during the 1,000 Heartless fight).
l) Keeping Slide Dash as an ability here makes it super easy to get to enemies fast. You do need to be better at positioning your attacks in other forms than with Limit (mostly when comparing Limit to Valor, really, since Valor can only attack while the other forms still keep magic or limits).
m) I like Sora's color scheme from KH1 (KH1 Sora is my favorite design of them all, IMO), so I think this form looks neat.
2) Final
a) Basically Master Form but better.
b) Two Keyblades allow for an extra ability to be used (Bond of Flame is great as the sub due to Firaga being great in this form).
c) Improved magic is awesome since you keep the mobility of Wisdom. Crime and Punishment is superior to Master Magic and Magic Spice.
d) Only has MP Haste when compare to Master's MP Hastera or Wisdom's double MP Hastega, but it's better than nothing. If you have Circle of Life and Ultima Weapon both equipped along with the MP Haste that you get upon getting level 6 Wisdom, recharge time is just 20 seconds. Otherwise, it gets a recharge time of 33s if you have that one MP Haste from the Wisdom leveling or 25s if you do Wisdom's MP Haste + Ultima Weapon.
e) Keyblades doing extra hits while doing various actions makes it great for a lot of scenarios.
f) It does drain your drive resources fast since it requires 5 drive and both party members.
g) Pretty much outclasses Master in all practical ways (besides MP Haste vs. Master's MP Hastera), but you get it right before you beat the game, so it's mostly used for the final stretch and the post-game.
h) Glide is great.
i) Form Boost is a great level-up ability, and you get two of them from Final.
j) Cool color scheme.
3) Wisdom
a) Double MP Hastega + Ultima Weapon is great for recharging MP fast. Assuming you have MP Haste (level-up ability from Wisdom that is a 1.25x multiplier) and the three MP Hastegas (2 for Wisdom, 1 for Ultima), then you would only have a recharge time of 14.29s. With other Keyblades, the recharge time is 18.18s, which is still very respectable and is only rivaled by a fully decked out Master form.
b) Magic Spice is great for the spells. Some argue that Master Magic is better, but I do like Magic Spice more mostly for Fire and Blizzard.
c) Cost is only 3 drive, and you get it relatively early in the game.
d) It does require Donald to use, so it can't be used in some fights.
e) Quick Run is OK. It has use cases for dodging attacks, but I find the other growth abilities more useful.
f) Keeping mobility while casting magic is a boon.
g) Data Demyx says "Hi."
h) Its level-up abilities are MP Haste (amazing) and MP Rage (not as useful, but still has cases in lower difficulties).
i) I do like the color blue.
4) Master
a) I dislike its attack string. Its combo string takes forever to finish.
b) It's great for taking care of mobs since its combo finishers are wide and it has infinite magic chains. I would never use this for serious boss fights, however.
c) Wisdom has better magic recharging, but Master's MP Hastera does make it recharge faster than Final and Limit (28.57s with MP Haste skill + Master, 20s with Ultima Weapon + MP Haste + Master, and 18.18s if you do Circle of Life + MP Haste + Ultima Weapon + Master).
d) I prefer how Wisdom controls while casting magic over Master, so I prefer that form over this one.
e) 4 Drive + Both Party Members is a bigger cost than 3 Drive + Donald, but Master is partner agnostic, so there are use cases where you would want to use Goofy + Disney/Riku over Goofy + Donald that necessitate Master over Wisdom.
f) Aerial Dodge is a great growth ability, but I usually just grind Master for base Sora to use instead of relying on this form to dodge since I dislike its physical combat and Wisdom has better scenarios to use magic.
g) The two Air Combo Plus abilities it gives as level-up abilities are nice.
h) Great for Mushroom VIII.
i) I dislike the color yellow.
5) Valor
a) No guarding, so you need to either high jump or parry attacks to not get hit.
b) No magic, so you need items to heal. Furthermore, no magic means that you're only attacking with your attack string, and that string takes some time to complete (not as long as Master's finisher, however).
c) It requires Goofy, so you can't use it in several fights that you can use Limit in.
d) It does look cool though.
e) The Combo Plus abilities are nice level-up bonuses.
f) Limit having Zantetsuken and Ripple Drive as combo finishers while also having Guard and Limits as forms of healing make it pretty much superior to Valor in all ways.
g) High Jump is a good utility, but most players will just grind out Valor and then avoid using it in Late Game scenarios once other forms are unlocked.
h) Red is OK, but I prefer it with other colors instead of it and black being the only two colors.
tl;dr: Your list is great, and you should totally do more videos! I disagree with it, however, as my order from best to worst is the following:
1) Limit
2) Final
3) Wisdom
4) Master
5) Valor
You do you, however.
I'm a Wisdom From enjoyer: it's arguably my favorite drive form, even if it's perhaps the weakest? Slap Negative Combo on with like the Photon Debugger and kite around while carpetbombing the area with lightning. Admittedly Master's infinite magic combos is more fluid, if less flashy and final is just goddamned broken.
are you okay while making the video? it sounds like you’re about to cry
All good here! Just a lack of vocal confidence as an amateur channel. It'll clear up in time as I hit my stride, I'm sure.
Valor form has no block or access to magic. It's honestly more of a liability or a desperation move than a viable strategy, especially at higher difficulties
How is valor better than final and limit
@@yakkowakko1705 feels like it controls better to me, I enjoy the ability to jump to a finisher whenever I please, the animations are satisfying, and a tinge of baseless personal bias on top of all of that based in my playstyle.
@@BlueThunderKeyKing776 it’s pretty good in that sense but having no magic at all in your disposable and having the combos have slow first initial input lag kinda makes it obsolete in the later parts of the game
@@yakkowakko1705 Hence why I believe Master Form stands above it. It remedies all those problems at about the halfway point in the game, standing as the perfect upgrade at the cost of losing both party members instead of just Goofy.
@@BlueThunderKeyKing776 yah but limit does what valor does but better and final is essentially master but with more a more prefferized play style
How about a ranking of your favorite heartless designs?
@@BUGMECH14 Oooooh, not a bad idea! But, each game would definitely have to be a separate video lol. Doing them all in one would take ages. But I will take that idea, put it on the pinboard, and credit you for inspiration in the script! Thanks!
How is the form that can't evade or block attacks number 2? Wisdom and Final aren't great in that regard, but at least I can still launch out of the way or throw up a Reflect spell.
@@dustinbragg1921 because enemies are almost always buried under the flurry of attacks you dish out before you're ever in any real danger. Throw Decisive Pumpkin and another Strength oriented Keyblade on Valor and watch the HP bar just disintegrate.
@@BlueThunderKeyKing776
Cars.
Enemies with I-frames, no flinch, and/or revenge attacks can't be stunlocked to death, but you can't block, dodge, or use magic.
Valor is fun, but you have no flexibility in it. If you don't unga bunga your enemies in one go with your caveman power you're smoked. If it still had blocking as a usable action Valor would be a solid 3rd in my book (Final is 2nd because even though it's so powerful and appealing it burns out *_so fast,_* and Master is 1rst for the same reasons as in the video).
Nice vid
@@invictus927 Thank you!
I always liked valor form design and animation wise but in comparison to limit form I say it's damage is lacking for the fact you cannot block OR roll during the form and with no way to heal outside of items.
Also I like seeing you just rank them based off of your opinion primarily and not which one is that useful, which is always nice to see
good stuff
Wisdom form is probably the worst out of them all.
There's no way it's worse than valor or anti
Valor is 100x better than wisdom, major hack and slash and you don’t lose Donald for healing or stunning
You did not cook with limit form, it's arguably better than final.
And I watched all of the video, yeah valor and master above limit and final is a very personal choice.
@@Plyskin05when I saw Limit form that low and Valor form that high, the first thing I thought of was that this video was made for the engagement, to get people to comment on this one. Like what we are doing lol
I get it’s all personal bias but yeah man I couldn’t disagree more, maybe it’s cause I play on critical mode (maybe you do to idk).
My list would be more like
1. Final
2. Wisdom
3. Master
4. Valour
But yeah without a guard/dodge roll/ air dodge it’s the worst form, it has 0 defensive options if not for access to items I’d argue it leaves you more open then Anti Form since anti at least lets you attack fast enough to parry incoming damage.
Master is great though I can’t argue with that, you still can’t block but you have access to reflect for defensive options and the aerial dodge is great, I just rank it lower then Wisdom because if I’m changing form to do more magic damage I’d go wisdom over master, and it’s rare that I’m just looking for better melee combos.
Wisdom is just really good at what it does, it has a niche and any fights where I need magic like post game demyx it’s a no brainer.
And final is absolutely so good it makes the other forms redundant but I gotta love how well designed it is. Every action encircles you in Keyblades, allowing for both offence and defence so you don’t even mind not having a block or dodge roll. You can parry incoming attacks by jumping, or casting magic. Doing critical lingering will with no items you really appreciate all the subtle details of final form.