Support long-form interviews like this by subscribing to MinnMax's TH-cam channel or unlock the podcast version of this interview and directly support independent games media by checking us out on Patreon. www.patreon.com/minnmax
Marcus, Alex, and Kareem are the reason I started my path down game development. They are the reason I first thought to myself “I can do this, I can make a game”. Alex with his brilliance, Kareem reminding me of freedom of expression, and Marc literally cheering on and encouraging this discovery that we all have the ability to create amazing things inside of us. Even though I’m just a random person on the internet, he liked all my creations I posted. Gave me kudos on things I worked hard on. As if he wasn’t already inspiring enough. Man single handedly pulled me out of imposter syndrome and lit the beacons of empowerment within me. Thank you for all you do, I know you’re just being you but thank you. I really can’t wait to see what you make.
the problem with dreams is that it was literally just advertised as a games creation platform, compared to littlebigplanet which was a game but with creative functionalities it's like if 343i released a new halo game, but it was just strictly a forge game. nobody would play it (to be honest nobody plays infinite but you get my stance) i hope a littlebigplanet 4 (or a real littlebigplanet hub) comes out soon with backfeatures implemented
@@ashemocha that’s basically what Roblox is but that’s a huge success. I think they didn’t know how to monetize Dreams. I think for it to be a success, it should have been free to play while charging $30 for access to the creation tools, and come pre-installed on the PS5. Think about it - you get a way bigger player base for these creations, and you’re supported by those who are creating. Hell, allow people to tip creators and Sony gets a cut.
@benexler I'll never understand how they failed to monetize Dreams correctly. Even now, people would pay for additional server space for bigger creations, but they do not even allow that. Dreams is an absolutely insanely brilliant peice of software that was simply abandoned. A criminal waste of potential imo.
@@krookedvulture such a waste. Sony spent 10 years investing in Mm/Dreams (after LBP 1&2 became so iconic for PS3) and to see what it is now is just such a shame. It feels like they didn’t even have one meeting to brainstorm how it could make them money. It sucks.
After the GDC conference I was blown away by that Little Big Planet demo. After that I knew there were going to come to Barcelona to ArtFutura in 2007 to talk about it and present the game con a conference, had to buy a ticket. There was a demo of the game, which you could play. And there while I was playing Mark and Alex came over to see how I was playing. I talked to them a bit (what I could, I was very young and my English was pretty bad) and then I went to watch the lecture, I think Kareem was there too. It was great, they seemed genuinely excited about their game. I've been following Media Molecule ever since, I have great memories of that day even today. Great talk, thanks MinnMax! Glad to see Mark again doing well ;)
I love Little Big Planet. It has a special place in my heart as one of my favorite gaming IP’s of all time. I wish it would come back. I didn’t like LBP3 as much, but if they just remastered LBP2 or made something similar I’d be so happy!
Same idk how many hours I spent on that game playing with friends. It was ahead of its time tbh the way you can chat , create levels & the costume’s / skins they would release damn I spent a lot of money on them 🤣
Thank you so much for this!! LittleBigPlanet (and mediamolecule by extension) literally altered the course of my life - as a teenager I made so much online friends, fell in love w/ art and the act of making, and the whole ethos of play/create/share has been embedded into my very core. Will be forever grateful for that. thank you Ben and MinnMax! Keep up the fantastic work!
What an amazing interview. Thank you so much for setting this up and putting it out there. And thank you Mark (also the rest of the MM team) for influencing and changing the lives of so many people.
Fascinating interview - *thank you* for doing this! It confirmed many of my impressions about WTF happened with DREAMS, but left quite a few things… unaddressed. I hope you’re able to interview more people to better connect some of the dots that continue to float around. I would also love to hear more of your own assessments and guesses, but as you are diplomatic I suspect that would only happen outside of TH-cam. More please, but again thank you!
Thanks to Mystic for alerting me to this interview. As someone in their late 40s who grew up playing the 80s arcades and having a spectrum 48k I loved this. I've enjoyed Marks work over the years from playing Rag Doll Kung Fu on Steam and PS3 and Black & White on PC. For me LBP on PS3 was a game changer with the whole play create share mantra. The game is genius and needs a next gen remaster. I didn't really get into the creation side of Dreams, but appreciate how ambitious it was and absolutely loved playing TREN. It's a shame it never came to PC or PSVR2. Can't wait to see what MM and Mark are cooking up.
With Dreams I created a fan remake of Metal Gear Solid. Didn't make it playable for obvious reasons...but it was a Dream I had and I managed to do it. Learned how to 3d sculpt...and recreating that world which I loved from scratch, building the legendary Metal Gear Rex, reproducing all the details that the great artists like Hideo Kojima and Yoji Shinkawa created, was a big accomplishment for me. These guys gave me the tools to do it through Dreams...and I was starting to dream to start creating a game. Who knows what could have happened if Dreams had a PC port and actual game/asset export or a monetization outcome? The Dreams community deserves that! I will never forget these past 4 years, as an artist Dreams gave me a sense of big fullfillment. See You in Outer Heaven, Legendary Dreamers
Same here. I've tried to get into Unity and Unreal so many times but I just HATE working in it. It's unstable and janky and uninspiring.. It's like going from caligraphy on fine parchment with traditional exclusive tools to using Word Perfect on a PC from 1987... Just a horrible experience that crushes creative flow INSTANTLY and you lose saves cause it crashes and corrupts files and just gaaaah. Trash. A piece of my creative spirit died with Dreams. Every time I do creative work I feel like I'm just wasting my time making things that can't be put into something like Dreams.. When I made a little cool dude in Dreams I could just walk him around with the controller, give him abilities.. stuff like that. When I draw a dude in procreate or model a little car in Zbrush or whatever, what am I gonna do with that? Drag it into the most uninspiring software package ever (Unreal Engine) and fiddle with animating that crap by hand for like 5 days? Things I could do in Dreams in 20 minutes literally takes days in Unity and Unreal... Soul crushing and so boring. Dreams was made for artists. Every other game engine is made by and for dudes with autism... I don't really mean that as an offensive thing, I mean it's literally something that draws people with disorders that cause them to become hyper focused on one thing. If you're just someone who likes to noodle with creative stuff, Unreal Engine and Unity is literally impenetrable.
It's so good to know someone who is ethical and had a spiritual awakening, that too in the games industry. Me and Mark are very alike that way. Would love to meet him someday, I make games as well, and I live in Edinburgh.
Always loved MM. LBP was a system seller for me. Lots of memories playing those with my sister back in the day. Dreams was incredible. Shame what happened to the LBP servers and I hope nothing like that happens to Dreams.
Same here, bought PS3 because of the LBP trailer. Bought PS4 because of Dreams. Bought a PSVR1 rather than a PCVR headset because of Dreams. Bought a PS5 and PSVR2 because of dreams, then my heart was crushed... This is the last Playstation I'm buying. I have no reason to buy another.
Great interview! Love Little Big Planet! Recently played Psvita version, psp and I bought the ps3 and ps4 versions! I also bought Dreams so I’m in the game again! ❤ It’s amazing how many play the LBP in private servers and that a lot of the creations are archived! ❤
Finally got around to listening to this. I've been making stuff in MM's games since the start of LBP and it's funny to hear Mark saying everything I tried to tell people for years. ie: multiplayer, Sackboy mattering, legal v monetization, stifling internal culture etc. A friend of mine who went on to work at MM told me Mark just wants to make fun games.
Couldn’t click on this fast enough! Dreams is still such an impressive playable game engine with so many cool community creations, so sad Sony wouldn’t keep it going.. Thanks for another great interview Ben!
Little Big Panet and Dreams have been my go to games for so long and was saddened when I heard LBP servers was shut down. My kids loved what I made but are now unable to access it. At least Dreams is still running and can access my creations. We still get to play around with our E-Bots in A Puzzle In Time and other TeleTech projects. I'm still looking forward to new Media Molecule games. All the best to Mark and his creations ❤
54:40 What Healey is essentially saying here is that creative games need a strong identity to succeed, whilst creators keep the game alive. Dreams failed because it lacked a strong identity.
Agree. Dreams needed a Sackboy. I swear, if they just made it Little Big Planet 3D or whatever, it would have sold a gazillion copies. There's no reason why Dreams couldn't have been focused around Sackboy.. It's like if Super Mario Maker was released as "Decent William Maker" and mario wasn't a part of it at all. It obviously wouldn't draw nearly as many players.
What a wonderful man. It’s really a shame LBP went down with media molecule and has set the definitions for what the game is instead of the massive online community that brought so many people together
While Mark did a bit of waffling, it was some of the most enjoyable waffling I’ve listened to in a long while. Thank you Hanson for sharing this and doing it. ❤
@@minnmax Nice, great stuff. Would you be able to make one with Alex too? He was one of the main drivers for the down-to-earth art style. He too has left Mm after Dreams ended support. Alex is just as legendary as Mark, and I'd love to also get his perspective on the LBP journey. Cheers!
I wish i could be creating experiences within Dreams Mark. But unfortunately i'd already been stung with LBPK: the servers are shut. I didn't spend a thousand hours creating in order for my creations to be shut down by somebody else on a whim. I won't be stung twice by Sony.
Really hope the verbage of "New IP" is used to keep the surprise of a new LittleBigPlanet entry. While Sony may still have faith in them, I fear for the studio's future if they don't make something big
I wish in the new game comes in the next year i wonder wood it be, Hmm ….🧐 Oh Yes - Yeah , I think it can be i was guessing , They can possibly they can make a new game develop, Maybe some time i can be a new next better good game like they can make a new LittleBIGPanet sandbox game, New type of version, Like on PC or PS5 - Or design a sandbox into 2D and 3D, hopefully it will be a better cool new sandbox game something very cool and satisfying
Amazing interview! Sony really screwed-up with Dreams. It could have been a gold mine. Sony cheated Playstation gamers, PSVR2 gamers, pc gamers...really they cheated the entire gaming world of all the games that could've been made and sold from Dreams, and all the devs it would have created
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Support long-form interviews like this by subscribing to MinnMax's TH-cam channel or unlock the podcast version of this interview and directly support independent games media by checking us out on Patreon. www.patreon.com/minnmax
Marcus, Alex, and Kareem are the reason I started my path down game development. They are the reason I first thought to myself “I can do this, I can make a game”. Alex with his brilliance, Kareem reminding me of freedom of expression, and Marc literally cheering on and encouraging this discovery that we all have the ability to create amazing things inside of us. Even though I’m just a random person on the internet, he liked all my creations I posted. Gave me kudos on things I worked hard on. As if he wasn’t already inspiring enough. Man single handedly pulled me out of imposter syndrome and lit the beacons of empowerment within me. Thank you for all you do, I know you’re just being you but thank you. I really can’t wait to see what you make.
Half way through the interview, this went much, much deeper than I thought it would, really appreciate how open Mark was.
I wish I lived in the universe where Dreams was a smash hit. There were so many amazing ideas that never got more than a few hundred plays.
the problem with dreams is that it was literally just advertised as a games creation platform, compared to littlebigplanet which was a game but with creative functionalities
it's like if 343i released a new halo game, but it was just strictly a forge game. nobody would play it (to be honest nobody plays infinite but you get my stance)
i hope a littlebigplanet 4 (or a real littlebigplanet hub) comes out soon with backfeatures implemented
@@ashemocha that’s basically what Roblox is but that’s a huge success. I think they didn’t know how to monetize Dreams.
I think for it to be a success, it should have been free to play while charging $30 for access to the creation tools, and come pre-installed on the PS5. Think about it - you get a way bigger player base for these creations, and you’re supported by those who are creating. Hell, allow people to tip creators and Sony gets a cut.
@benexler I'll never understand how they failed to monetize Dreams correctly. Even now, people would pay for additional server space for bigger creations, but they do not even allow that.
Dreams is an absolutely insanely brilliant peice of software that was simply abandoned.
A criminal waste of potential imo.
@@krookedvulture such a waste. Sony spent 10 years investing in Mm/Dreams (after LBP 1&2 became so iconic for PS3) and to see what it is now is just such a shame.
It feels like they didn’t even have one meeting to brainstorm how it could make them money. It sucks.
Little Big Planet is an all timer for me. This is awesome
Media Molecule is s big portion of PlayStation's souls , we want to see it shine this generation.
With how LittleBigPlanet is treated, I have my doubts 😔
After the GDC conference I was blown away by that Little Big Planet demo. After that I knew there were going to come to Barcelona to ArtFutura in 2007 to talk about it and present the game con a conference, had to buy a ticket. There was a demo of the game, which you could play. And there while I was playing Mark and Alex came over to see how I was playing. I talked to them a bit (what I could, I was very young and my English was pretty bad) and then I went to watch the lecture, I think Kareem was there too. It was great, they seemed genuinely excited about their game. I've been following Media Molecule ever since, I have great memories of that day even today. Great talk, thanks MinnMax! Glad to see Mark again doing well ;)
I love Little Big Planet. It has a special place in my heart as one of my favorite gaming IP’s of all time. I wish it would come back. I didn’t like LBP3 as much, but if they just remastered LBP2 or made something similar I’d be so happy!
Same idk how many hours I spent on that game playing with friends. It was ahead of its time tbh the way you can chat , create levels & the costume’s / skins they would release damn I spent a lot of money on them 🤣
Thank you so much for this!! LittleBigPlanet (and mediamolecule by extension) literally altered the course of my life - as a teenager I made so much online friends, fell in love w/ art and the act of making, and the whole ethos of play/create/share has been embedded into my very core. Will be forever grateful for that.
thank you Ben and MinnMax! Keep up the fantastic work!
I love Mark's humour..
What do you miss...
"lunch"... and the carpark space ... HAHA. He's so real.
What an amazing interview. Thank you so much for setting this up and putting it out there.
And thank you Mark (also the rest of the MM team) for influencing and changing the lives of so many people.
Dreams will always mean so much to so many of us, thank you ❤
this interview is just brilliant
Fascinating interview - *thank you* for doing this!
It confirmed many of my impressions about WTF happened with DREAMS, but left quite a few things… unaddressed.
I hope you’re able to interview more people to better connect some of the dots that continue to float around.
I would also love to hear more of your own assessments and guesses, but as you are diplomatic I suspect that would only happen outside of TH-cam.
More please, but again thank you!
Thanks to Mystic for alerting me to this interview.
As someone in their late 40s who grew up playing the 80s arcades and having a spectrum 48k I loved this.
I've enjoyed Marks work over the years from playing Rag Doll Kung Fu on Steam and PS3 and Black & White on PC.
For me LBP on PS3 was a game changer with the whole play create share mantra. The game is genius and needs a next gen remaster.
I didn't really get into the creation side of Dreams, but appreciate how ambitious it was and absolutely loved playing TREN. It's a shame it never came to PC or PSVR2.
Can't wait to see what MM and Mark are cooking up.
OMG another interview from Ben Hanson? The *best* interviewer in the industry? The Jeff Keeley of game interviews? so good
This interview went places I was not expecting and enjoyed every minute of it. Mahalo nui loa. (Thank you very much)
With Dreams I created a fan remake of Metal Gear Solid. Didn't make it playable for obvious reasons...but it was a Dream I had and I managed to do it. Learned how to 3d sculpt...and recreating that world which I loved from scratch, building the legendary Metal Gear Rex, reproducing all the details that the great artists like Hideo Kojima and Yoji Shinkawa created, was a big accomplishment for me.
These guys gave me the tools to do it through Dreams...and I was starting to dream to start creating a game. Who knows what could have happened if Dreams had a PC port and actual game/asset export or a monetization outcome?
The Dreams community deserves that!
I will never forget these past 4 years, as an artist Dreams gave me a sense of big fullfillment.
See You in Outer Heaven, Legendary Dreamers
Dreams is one of the best games ever made. It's insane what they were able to achieve. I hope the PC release comes out someday.
Same here. I've tried to get into Unity and Unreal so many times but I just HATE working in it. It's unstable and janky and uninspiring.. It's like going from caligraphy on fine parchment with traditional exclusive tools to using Word Perfect on a PC from 1987... Just a horrible experience that crushes creative flow INSTANTLY and you lose saves cause it crashes and corrupts files and just gaaaah. Trash.
A piece of my creative spirit died with Dreams. Every time I do creative work I feel like I'm just wasting my time making things that can't be put into something like Dreams.. When I made a little cool dude in Dreams I could just walk him around with the controller, give him abilities.. stuff like that. When I draw a dude in procreate or model a little car in Zbrush or whatever, what am I gonna do with that? Drag it into the most uninspiring software package ever (Unreal Engine) and fiddle with animating that crap by hand for like 5 days? Things I could do in Dreams in 20 minutes literally takes days in Unity and Unreal... Soul crushing and so boring.
Dreams was made for artists. Every other game engine is made by and for dudes with autism... I don't really mean that as an offensive thing, I mean it's literally something that draws people with disorders that cause them to become hyper focused on one thing. If you're just someone who likes to noodle with creative stuff, Unreal Engine and Unity is literally impenetrable.
What an awesome interview, love Mark!
(Also I neither confirm nor deny anything said in this^^)
It's so good to know someone who is ethical and had a spiritual awakening, that too in the games industry.
Me and Mark are very alike that way.
Would love to meet him someday, I make games as well, and I live in Edinburgh.
amazing interview!! that microsoft story is WILD
This was lovely, thanks Ben (& Mark!)
Thank you for creating my favourite game of all time, Mark. My childhood wouldn't have been the same without LBP.
What an incredible interview
Thanks, any help sharing the interview is appreciated.
Always loved MM. LBP was a system seller for me. Lots of memories playing those with my sister back in the day. Dreams was incredible. Shame what happened to the LBP servers and I hope nothing like that happens to Dreams.
Same here, bought PS3 because of the LBP trailer. Bought PS4 because of Dreams. Bought a PSVR1 rather than a PCVR headset because of Dreams. Bought a PS5 and PSVR2 because of dreams, then my heart was crushed...
This is the last Playstation I'm buying. I have no reason to buy another.
He sounds so sad D; , great interview als allways Ben
Great interview! Love Little Big Planet!
Recently played Psvita version, psp and I bought the ps3 and ps4 versions!
I also bought Dreams so I’m in the game again! ❤
It’s amazing how many play the LBP in private servers and that a lot of the creations are archived! ❤
Great interview! As long as we're getting interviews like this, I'm happy to be a patron
Thanks so much, any help spreading the word is appreciated.
Mark Healey is that G.O.A.T creator!! Thanks @MinnMax for another great episode
I love how honest and open Mark is this is a great interview. I’ve loved Littlebigplanet since 2009. Can’t wait for the future of Sackboy. ❤
Another fucking great interview from a huge gaming luminary. Thanks MinnMax!
Our pleasure, tell a friend!
@@minnmax I did and they loved it!
Finally got around to listening to this. I've been making stuff in MM's games since the start of LBP and it's funny to hear Mark saying everything I tried to tell people for years. ie: multiplayer, Sackboy mattering, legal v monetization, stifling internal culture etc. A friend of mine who went on to work at MM told me Mark just wants to make fun games.
Couldn’t click on this fast enough! Dreams is still such an impressive playable game engine with so many cool community creations, so sad Sony wouldn’t keep it going..
Thanks for another great interview Ben!
Little Big Panet and Dreams have been my go to games for so long and was saddened when I heard LBP servers was shut down. My kids loved what I made but are now unable to access it. At least Dreams is still running and can access my creations. We still get to play around with our E-Bots in A Puzzle In Time and other TeleTech projects. I'm still looking forward to new Media Molecule games. All the best to Mark and his creations ❤
54:40 What Healey is essentially saying here is that creative games need a strong identity to succeed, whilst creators keep the game alive. Dreams failed because it lacked a strong identity.
Agree. Dreams needed a Sackboy.
I swear, if they just made it Little Big Planet 3D or whatever, it would have sold a gazillion copies. There's no reason why Dreams couldn't have been focused around Sackboy..
It's like if Super Mario Maker was released as "Decent William Maker" and mario wasn't a part of it at all. It obviously wouldn't draw nearly as many players.
Ben putting his therapist hat on for a bit lol. Great interview! Really interesting guy.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN DREAMS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LITTLE BIG PLANET
What a wonderful man. It’s really a shame LBP went down with media molecule and has set the definitions for what the game is instead of the massive online community that brought so many people together
TH-cam autoplay coming in clutch for once!
Great interview. Dreams is the best thing on psn.
This is gutting 😢 man I wish Dreams could get a second chance.
Great interview once again! But disappointed that you didn't ask him questions about Stephen Fry. His narration was just so sublime and fitting.
So sad Dreams didn’t take, it is f ing incredible
I hope his secret freelance work is a successor to B&W... hasn't been a game like it since :(
what happened to tearaway? Didn't media molecule made tearaway after LBP2?
I think tearaway was developed on the side when they were making dreams and mark Healy didn't have significant involvement
@@jumponeverything Ok, that makes sense. Cheers!
While Mark did a bit of waffling, it was some of the most enjoyable waffling I’ve listened to in a long while. Thank you Hanson for sharing this and doing it. ❤
Can we please get little big planet 4 eventually :( even if it's 10 years away
Dreams - with - camera and move support .... should've been on PC.
How did you land this interview?
We've been reaching out and trying to line up a time for a while now.
@@minnmax Nice, great stuff. Would you be able to make one with Alex too? He was one of the main drivers for the down-to-earth art style. He too has left Mm after Dreams ended support.
Alex is just as legendary as Mark, and I'd love to also get his perspective on the LBP journey.
Cheers!
I wish i could be creating experiences within Dreams Mark. But unfortunately i'd already been stung with LBPK: the servers are shut. I didn't spend a thousand hours creating in order for my creations to be shut down by somebody else on a whim. I won't be stung twice by Sony.
😶
Really hope the verbage of "New IP" is used to keep the surprise of a new LittleBigPlanet entry. While Sony may still have faith in them, I fear for the studio's future if they don't make something big
Great interview from the best in the biz
I wish in the new game comes in the next year i wonder wood it be, Hmm ….🧐 Oh Yes - Yeah , I think it can be i was guessing , They can possibly they can make a new game develop, Maybe some time i can be a new next better good game like they can make a new LittleBIGPanet sandbox game, New type of version, Like on PC or PS5 - Or design a sandbox into 2D and 3D, hopefully it will be a better cool new sandbox game something very cool and satisfying
Amazing interview! Sony really screwed-up with Dreams. It could have been a gold mine. Sony cheated Playstation gamers, PSVR2 gamers, pc gamers...really they cheated the entire gaming world of all the games that could've been made and sold from Dreams, and all the devs it would have created
Little big planet 4 talk about
Sackboy in Death Stranding 2?
5:35 someone paid a $100 for this stupid gif of Reggie, just a tad bit distracting haha
God of War, Horizon, Death Stranding, Tsushima, Last of Us...but not Dreams???