Please fix your tolerances. Noise = friction = inefficiency. When you run the gearbox and hear clicking, that means something isn't right. Also, I noticed in your last video that at high speeds your bolts came loose, which you should also ensure are tightened properly.
Traditional gears are limited by max speed due to back lash increasing the faster it spins. Mag gear do not have this problem making them great for high speed application. Try comparing the two gear boxes at 15000 - 20000 RPM. The herringbone gear will see a huge drop in efficiency and the mag gear would remain stable excluding other mechanical factors like balancing.
Hopefully, people now understand why this is such a cool idea. It's not a blanket replacement for traditional gearboxes, but there are applications for which a traditional gearbox or a variably driven electric motor wouldn't work in and this would.
Not really. Its less efficient than a really poorly made gearbox and its basically an electric motor with extra steps. Its not even contact, lubrication, or wear free because there's still bearings that will wear and need to be replaced. Not to mention the longevity, capability, and cost compared to a traditional gearbox. Not sure where it would have any application outside of this video.
@@anon_y_mousse It also has potential as a safety or damage-limitation device, as there's far less mass being brought to a sudden stop in the event of the output side jamming at high RPM _and_ it prevents motor burnout by physically decoupling the motor from the load.
Custom magnets are probably not in the budget yet, but it would be interesting to see the performance of the gearbox with ring-shaped single-piece multipole magnets.
@@rayanalzahrani8756Yep! Magnets can be custom made with very complex pole arrangements. This is commonly used for increasing holding force by putting poles on the same side (eliminating the need for steel pole pieces) and alignment (the arrangement of poles causes two magnets to prefer a specific orientation. This can be one or more orientations, and can include stronger or weaker attraction, which is useful for creating knobs with magnetic detents of varying strength, and other such devices). Magnet manufacturers often offer design services for custom shapes and pole designs, although capabilities for complex pole arrangements vary.
I dont see the low torque as that big a disadvantage in some situations. In combat robotics, Having your weapon motor active when impacting an opponent is a fast way to shatter gearboxes and overheat/otherwise destroy motors. The lower torque would probably mean slower spin ups, but the lack of gears means you get to keep doing it over and over.
I was just thinking about this the other day, magnetic couplings or gearboxes could find use in combat robotics as a way to disconnect spinner weapon impact force from more delicate weapon drivetrain components.
Im completely assiming that you have seen some of the halbach arrays and ways to arrange, or arrange cut magnets to exponentially increase theur force? ☺️. Just sub'ed after i seen your video from 10-11 months ago. Love the work. Seems like finding the right type and kind of bearings is gonna be a key factor. Even seen one guy who put bearings inside of bearings inside of bearings that all had tight tolerances. Cleaned them all with a solvent. Added a PTFE synthetic oil. Etc. Resealed them. Good results for his project. Even had some unsealed ones for air flow/heat dissipation and some with moly grease.
Damn, just Damn ! this is both fascinating and so genius ! And how lucky i am to find a part 2 after i've just stambled across you and your most recent video from 3 weeks ago. I've read a load of comments on there too, so many great and diversified recommandations and little improvements to the materials and design. and i really have to say, they are worth your time checking out ! i'm excited to see more about thing and how far this can be pushed. Best of luck to you !
Why don't you give the core pieces in the modulator the same footprint as the magnets themselves? In my mind they work like a gateway for the magnetic flux to pass through, since they are smaller than the magnets, they might limit the exchange of the magnetic differential.
It seems to be wobbling a lot so balancing it just like it's done for drone propellers may help. Also the gaps between each part tend to be very tiny in electric components.
Have you tried Halbach array? Looks like just the thing you need. Or a least metal disk outside magnets to shorten magnetic loop and increace flux in the middle.
I would love to see this with stronger magnets, maybe even coils; It would be fun to see something transmit its power like the wireless chargers due, but I would suppose some efficiency loss. Is there any way to push them closer together by slimming down the modulator in the middle?
Thoughts, reduce the weight of the central plate with the opening, or a hex internal structural pattern. This could help performance, but it is just food for thought
Please try to connect the motors directly to each other and get a baseline of the losses occuring, as the two motors will never be able to run at 100% efficiency by themself. Then you can substract the losses of anything in between, like your magnetic gearbox, to get a real idea of their losses. ❤that!
Do you think I could apply it to a vehicle like an RC car or some other vehicle to compare because I would be interested in adding it to my car in the future?
So mechanical gears still outperform in terms of maximum torque transfer, but magnetic gears could outperform mechanical gears in certain scenarios, perhaps like, when low torque, low heat [friction], and longevity are required? Are the magnetic gears also lighter than mechanical gears?
Featuring a hybrid gearbox demonstrating magneto-mechanical effects with upgraded and enhanced magnetically-assisted boosters to take mechanical efficiency to a whole new level.
I would say that the contactless transmission is the number 1 reason why its extremly good am thinking about things like a pump in a fish tank where there the hard part is not killing the motor while its underwater, but transmiting the rotary motion trough the glass from the side or under could make for a pump that doesnt have to have an air tight pocket for motor and electronics, it would also be verry intresting for boats as making a shaft that is airtight is really hard if u dont want to lose some tork due to friction and using lots of lube and still have some leakage, engines also have that issue of transmiting power while keeping oil in
great video, I wonder if using magnetic eddys could produce good results with an aluminum flywheel and magnets plates on either side. I think that would produce a bit more torque than magnets alone. (btw I have no idea what I am talking about I just love to theorycraft and learn things)
I mean, if you're going through this much effort, why not just put the work into an axial flux motor that gives you the output you want? The design isn't too bad, you can cool the coils, and it is brushless and no contact.
2:13 the eddy currents don't increase with load, but with speed. When magnets are stationary, there are no eddy currents. With high speed and low load, more power is wasted for switching the magnetic fields inside the steel inserts, which doesn't increase the output power.
Buy a roll of glass iron, and cut the cores out of this iron-material (with a blade/scissors, and not with laser)... And if you use a huge gear to transport 5Watts, and lose 1Watt, that´s such a small aount of energy, that it will never get hot, so, such an observation is useless in your case. Except you interpret it in a way, that it means that those gears are too big for the little energy they transfer.
Hi.Congratulations you did it very well , bat I have something new for you. About magnetic gear which one you didnt like (55%).If change the diameter of middle steell circle for more and put them like chamomile and use not screws but steel lists from transformator . Middle must be stator. Input of forse must be the little one output the biggest .And there you mast have an extra lever (arm), which no one who doing such things didnt remark it. Its kind you teleporting your impuls from short arm to long arm. And must change quantity of pols too. Small more pols biggest les pols. Tri it and you will be surprised.
I think that you should check efficiency with direct connection between power motor and generator - there is probably a lot of losses there in this conversion - and mechanical gears are probably much more efficient than 85%.
Your Mag gearbox looks like it is out of alignment/balance causing vibration, you can clearly see it in the video and the previous video, please try Balancing Rotating Parts and test again, I think your efficiency will increase drastically
I'll be waiting for you to use a much stronger set of bearings so that the actual torque and speed can be accurately measured. I've always wanted to do this exact test years ago by applying a 1 to 3 or 1 to 6 gear ratio but on a motorcycle but I was always told that the type of metals needed dont exist ... Even with magnets at some point you need to put the power to wheel so to me there in lies the problem. Still the Searle Effect with the magnets staying cool, no need for oils, Its exciting to think that this could apply to many things. The no friction No drag can only mean MORE EFFICIENCY!!! SO DON'T QUIT KNOW!!!
well.. magnets loose their strength with heat.. and so as you put in frictional work (load) the magnet will grow weaker and weaker.. the only solution would be electromagnet.. and we all that a motor..
@Retsetman If you could incase the magnets in metal accept the face that should be interacted with you will see stronger magnetic forces. This link show's in detail what I'm referring to.th-cam.com/video/U8mnrO-gM8s/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TechIngredients
This is not fair to the magnetic gear. If the magnetic gear is professionally done, it should have a higher efficiency, or maybe higher than the mechanical gear.
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W2D3 | Summer | ไม่อยากเหนื่อยวันเสาร์ ก็ต้องจัดเต็ม](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CbsHmoJXjvE/mqdefault.jpg)
Please fix your tolerances. Noise = friction = inefficiency. When you run the gearbox and hear clicking, that means something isn't right. Also, I noticed in your last video that at high speeds your bolts came loose, which you should also ensure are tightened properly.
Right indeed
Agreed
Plus, because of that friction, there's a greater chance for wear and damage.
Traditional gears are limited by max speed due to back lash increasing the faster it spins. Mag gear do not have this problem making them great for high speed application. Try comparing the two gear boxes at 15000 - 20000 RPM. The herringbone gear will see a huge drop in efficiency and the mag gear would remain stable excluding other mechanical factors like balancing.
Hopefully, people now understand why this is such a cool idea. It's not a blanket replacement for traditional gearboxes, but there are applications for which a traditional gearbox or a variably driven electric motor wouldn't work in and this would.
Not really. Its less efficient than a really poorly made gearbox and its basically an electric motor with extra steps. Its not even contact, lubrication, or wear free because there's still bearings that will wear and need to be replaced. Not to mention the longevity, capability, and cost compared to a traditional gearbox. Not sure where it would have any application outside of this video.
@@7AStingray That's because you don't work with vacuums or underwater, both of which would be areas where it would be useful.
@@anon_y_mousse It also has potential as a safety or damage-limitation device, as there's far less mass being brought to a sudden stop in the event of the output side jamming at high RPM _and_ it prevents motor burnout by physically decoupling the motor from the load.
This is really cool and love the idea and design! Maybe make the metal pices in the centre the same size as the magnets?
Custom magnets are probably not in the budget yet, but it would be interesting to see the performance of the gearbox with ring-shaped single-piece multipole magnets.
Can you even have multiple polarity on the a sing large ring?
@@rayanalzahrani8756Yep! Magnets can be custom made with very complex pole arrangements. This is commonly used for increasing holding force by putting poles on the same side (eliminating the need for steel pole pieces) and alignment (the arrangement of poles causes two magnets to prefer a specific orientation. This can be one or more orientations, and can include stronger or weaker attraction, which is useful for creating knobs with magnetic detents of varying strength, and other such devices).
Magnet manufacturers often offer design services for custom shapes and pole designs, although capabilities for complex pole arrangements vary.
@@rayanalzahrani8756I believe, you could achieve it, Goole > Halbach array ;)
@@rayanalzahrani8756 A quick google search revealed that it's simply a combination of magnets, not a single solid chunk of the same material.
@@rayanalzahrani8756yes, but I believe arc segments are more efficient.
I dont see the low torque as that big a disadvantage in some situations. In combat robotics, Having your weapon motor active when impacting an opponent is a fast way to shatter gearboxes and overheat/otherwise destroy motors. The lower torque would probably mean slower spin ups, but the lack of gears means you get to keep doing it over and over.
I was just thinking about this the other day, magnetic couplings or gearboxes could find use in combat robotics as a way to disconnect spinner weapon impact force from more delicate weapon drivetrain components.
Im completely assiming that you have seen some of the halbach arrays and ways to arrange, or arrange cut magnets to exponentially increase theur force? ☺️. Just sub'ed after i seen your video from 10-11 months ago. Love the work. Seems like finding the right type and kind of bearings is gonna be a key factor. Even seen one guy who put bearings inside of bearings inside of bearings that all had tight tolerances. Cleaned them all with a solvent. Added a PTFE synthetic oil. Etc. Resealed them. Good results for his project. Even had some unsealed ones for air flow/heat dissipation and some with moly grease.
Damn, just Damn ! this is both fascinating and so genius ! And how lucky i am to find a part 2 after i've just stambled across you and your most recent video from 3 weeks ago.
I've read a load of comments on there too, so many great and diversified recommandations and little improvements to the materials and design. and i really have to say, they are worth your time checking out !
i'm excited to see more about thing and how far this can be pushed. Best of luck to you !
Great video!
Why don't you give the core pieces in the modulator the same footprint as the magnets themselves? In my mind they work like a gateway for the magnetic flux to pass through, since they are smaller than the magnets, they might limit the exchange of the magnetic differential.
It seems to be wobbling a lot so balancing it just like it's done for drone propellers may help. Also the gaps between each part tend to be very tiny in electric components.
Yeah, I think the gap is a huge factor
Have you tried Halbach array? Looks like just the thing you need. Or a least metal disk outside magnets to shorten magnetic loop and increace flux in the middle.
This is a cool design…imagine a snow blower with no need for shear bolts on the auger…
That's really cool!
I would love to see this with stronger magnets, maybe even coils; It would be fun to see something transmit its power like the wireless chargers due, but I would suppose some efficiency loss. Is there any way to push them closer together by slimming down the modulator in the middle?
won't using coils just result in a traditional electric motor?
but maybe coils can be used in the modulator, producing an adjustable gearbox maybe?
Thoughts, reduce the weight of the central plate with the opening, or a hex internal structural pattern. This could help performance, but it is just food for thought
O I forgot . Tri do not let gaps between the steel of the middle circle, where they are contacting with small circle. it will turn eseer.
Please try to connect the motors directly to each other and get a baseline of the losses occuring, as the two motors will never be able to run at 100% efficiency by themself. Then you can substract the losses of anything in between, like your magnetic gearbox, to get a real idea of their losses.
❤that!
Do you think I could apply it to a vehicle like an RC car or some other vehicle to compare because I would be interested in adding it to my car in the future?
So mechanical gears still outperform in terms of maximum torque transfer, but magnetic gears could outperform mechanical gears in certain scenarios, perhaps like, when low torque, low heat [friction], and longevity are required? Are the magnetic gears also lighter than mechanical gears?
Featuring a hybrid gearbox demonstrating magneto-mechanical effects with upgraded and enhanced magnetically-assisted boosters to take mechanical efficiency to a whole new level.
I would say that the contactless transmission is the number 1 reason why its extremly good
am thinking about things like a pump in a fish tank where there the hard part is not killing the motor while its underwater, but transmiting the rotary motion trough the glass from the side or under could make for a pump that doesnt have to have an air tight pocket for motor and electronics, it would also be verry intresting for boats as making a shaft that is airtight is really hard if u dont want to lose some tork due to friction and using lots of lube and still have some leakage, engines also have that issue of transmiting power while keeping oil in
This transmission is a non-starter (heh) until it can actually transmit torque successfully and not weaker than my pinky.
@@DarkExternalHeart its probably fine for a tiny pump for a small fish tank, would be really intresting to try it
Does the torque increase when you make the air gaps smaller?
Surely, check out my previous video
отлично, а можешь скинуть чертежи редуктора?
How about using Polymagnets...?
Have you thought of /experimented with magnetic bearings to avoid its frictions?
great video, I wonder if using magnetic eddys could produce good results with an aluminum flywheel and magnets plates on either side. I think that would produce a bit more torque than magnets alone. (btw I have no idea what I am talking about I just love to theorycraft and learn things)
esto para q seria? para vehiculos o para q sirve? e visto los frenos magneticos y ya estan implementados en cabezales! son bien interesantes!
Don't jump to conclusions that fast. However, great setup!
I mean, if you're going through this much effort, why not just put the work into an axial flux motor that gives you the output you want? The design isn't too bad, you can cool the coils, and it is brushless and no contact.
Bruh. So hyped to see how it will perform with custom magnets.
2:13 the eddy currents don't increase with load, but with speed. When magnets are stationary, there are no eddy currents.
With high speed and low load, more power is wasted for switching the magnetic fields inside the steel inserts, which doesn't increase the output power.
Buy a roll of glass iron, and cut the cores out of this iron-material (with a blade/scissors, and not with laser)... And if you use a huge gear to transport 5Watts, and lose 1Watt, that´s such a small aount of energy, that it will never get hot, so, such an observation is useless in your case. Except you interpret it in a way, that it means that those gears are too big for the little energy they transfer.
Im subsctibing because I want to see where this goes.
Hi.Congratulations you did it very well , bat I have something new for you.
About magnetic gear which one you didnt like (55%).If change the diameter of middle steell circle for more and put them like chamomile and use not screws but steel lists from transformator .
Middle must be stator. Input of forse must be the little one output the biggest .And there you mast have an extra lever (arm), which no one who doing such things didnt remark it. Its kind you teleporting your impuls from short arm to long arm. And must change quantity of pols too. Small more pols biggest les pols. Tri it and you will be surprised.
Make some fan to dissipate heat.
One day, would be cool to see if you could build a transmission that can replace a conventional transmission.
Естественно нужно делать все в металле и с минимальными зазорами тогда и эффективность вырастет
I think that you should check efficiency with direct connection between power motor and generator - there is probably a lot of losses there in this conversion - and mechanical gears are probably much more efficient than 85%.
You need a way to Proof for slip
Actually it's all about the torque limit
Your Mag gearbox looks like it is out of alignment/balance causing vibration, you can clearly see it in the video and the previous video, please try Balancing Rotating Parts and test again, I think your efficiency will increase drastically
why to compare 12:1 vs 4:1 and not 4:1 for the two ?
driving in sandy terrain with a magnetic gearbox would cause it to clog up with sand . now that would increase cleaning and repair cost.
You should try to operate the gears:
- under a vacuum
- nitrogen cool them
- turn them into electromagnets
I'll be waiting for you to use a much stronger set of bearings so that the actual torque and speed can be accurately measured. I've always wanted to do this exact test years ago by applying a 1 to 3 or 1 to 6 gear ratio but on a motorcycle but I was always told that the type of metals needed dont exist ... Even with magnets at some point you need to put the power to wheel so to me there in lies the problem. Still the Searle Effect with the magnets staying cool, no need for oils, Its exciting to think that this could apply to many things. The no friction No drag can only mean MORE EFFICIENCY!!! SO DON'T QUIT KNOW!!!
Reducing that air gap is going to increase your torque capacity. By a lot.
سلام داداش خسته نباشی دمت گرم کارت عالیه ولی باید بگی بچه کجایی
well.. magnets loose their strength with heat.. and so as you put in frictional work (load) the magnet will grow weaker and weaker.. the only solution would be electromagnet.. and we all that a motor..
@Retsetman If you could incase the magnets in metal accept the face that should be interacted with you will see stronger magnetic forces. This link show's in detail what I'm referring to.th-cam.com/video/U8mnrO-gM8s/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=TechIngredients
I’m gonna try implementing magnetic gears in my next video
no one has yet tried to install magnets in firearms, perhaps too fragile ?
Put it in a vacuum
This is not fair to the magnetic gear. If the magnetic gear is professionally done, it should have a higher efficiency, or maybe higher than the mechanical gear.
No