3D Printed Gearbox (Herringbone Gears) - Speed Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2021
- In this 3d printed gearbox experiment we will see how these new engineering design considerations impact how well this 3d printed gearbox works. We will go through the engineering process as well and conduct a speed test to see how fast we can get the gearbox to spin.
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-Steven
(Engineer here)
The teeth type is one of the best for this situation, well done on this one. But give a shot to these two/three things.
1:use something to prevent the axes from bending, (a flange between the gears)
2 and most importantly: jumping a whole milimeter just because 75 didn’t do is an overkill. Usually when one adjusts gears, you need about .1-.2mm between them (space just enough for a piece of paper to get roller between the gears) this is something that will prevent more of the teeth jumping you had when applying torque.
3: lubricant is not really needed in my opinion since the surfaces are rough and you don’t care about the lifetime. Try treating the parts with acetone moisture to reduce the roughness.
Add some weight to the one of the three last gears so they perform as a flywheel.(this might be dangerous)
Pretty nice project, would be lovely if you measured the output speed.
In my experience "this might be dangerous" in engineering is usually a good sign for progress lmao
@@NephiylusBaphson ah yes, fellow engineer too, eh?
As a layman when he jumped a whole millimeter I sighed. 75 mm sounded only slightly off so .2 mm might have done it
A flywheel was something I was gonna recommend as well.
Source: am not an engineer
not an engineer in any way but i think external lubricant its a good thing, even if you dont care about life time it still reduces the friction right? the acetone it's very good but i heard that also makes the parts weaker, and i thing he should try to clean the bearings, i mean the inside of them, usually comes with a relative thick lubricant and since they are balls they run just fine without them if its for small amounts of time (heat is the problem) or he could put a very thin one like wd40? just some opinions like i said no engineer just my past experience
IDK if you've tried this, but you can get the bearings to run much better by removing the shield and then using degreaser to remove the very thick lube. You can replace the lube with a drop of sewing machine oil, or just run the bearings 'dry', which does decrease their lifetimes significantly. But it's still hours of working condition.
The shields are removable by flat screwdriver, and can be pushed in again afterwards.
I don't think that's a good idea unless you wanna ruin the bearings, because the grease in ball bearings is thick for a reason. Thinner oils will immediately get ejected by centrifugal forces once the bearing spins up, leaving it to run dry in a matter of seconds.
@@ChronicMechatronic he said it decreases the lifetime significantly
@@ianmoore322 he said running them dry would decrease the lifespan significantly, but by using thin oil they will eventually also run dry
that would only work if he got a proper sized shaft. At the moment those bearing are likehoop earings and are just loosley on the shaft.
@@PBMS123 I noticed the play between the bearings and the shaft as well. That needs to be eliminated to aid in achieving top speed. I also agree with running a dry bearing in this application. The builder is going for top speed not longevity. It will be mission critical to remove as much friction as possible.
I think a lightweight aluminum flywheel at the end would help it store energy when it's up to speed, you'll have to start w bit slower but it'll make it run smoother and you can crank more consistently too
Just a general note, when installing press fit bearings you should always use a collar (between the bearing and hammer, or press) that ensures your hammer strikes will only transfer to the outer bearing race (in a pinch, a socket with the closest diameter to the outer race will work). If the bearing is being press fit onto a shaft you would only apply force to the inner race, just to be clear, it depends on the application.
Striking the bearing as you do in this video can cause bearing ball deformity and indentations to the race surfaces.
For this application it's not really a big deal, but for more constant use applications it's best to develop good habits for bearing installation.
Dry lube next time maybe. I assume the gears are slipping because of the rod deflecting in the middle? Or because of spacing?
How about thrust bearings between the gears? That would probably help.
Nice one Ian I just said this
He used drylube🙂
He is already using dry lube but he didn't let it dry.
Herringbone gear tooth shaping should prevent any axial loading from happening.
This was a dry lube, albeit he never let it dry. It's also known as one of the very worst lubes in the bike industry😂
Every dude here thinking he can break it.
😂😂😂
Lol that's not the goal buddy
It's called a hammer
Never heard of micro center and I'm just getting into computers, wiring, programming, etc. This will be great. I'm glad you're sponsored by them and you shared this since I'm just up the 57 from them. I've been fascinated by your 3D printing and the gear boxes, and now this is great too. Thank you!
all the gears are finally spinning
The ratios are different from the ones before
Use spacers. You’re getting a LOT of friction from the gears touching
Especially for the First and Last Gearwheels.
Try PTFE Washers
Try Ballbearings in your Stand
Trust me, I m German
We dont have Humor but we can Drink beer, sorry, we can do engineer ing
Or if this somehow goes far enough, thrust bearings between the gears
Spacer shuld conekt two rods togheter, les friktion les rods deflektion stable gears conektion
The double herringbone gears will index themselves without spacers.
Torrington bearing/washers, and mid shaft support to stop deflection on the shafts outwards
You should maybe include some trays for the lubricant and a splash shield to keep it on the gears. You should also rig a timing counter to determine how fast your last gear is moving, and see if there is a max output or point of diminishing returns
I'm so glad to see this finally be attempted, I'm sure there's other video's out there. But I haven't seen any. Definitely going to follow progress!
Axels not stiff enough needs more support inbetween, especially where the highest torque is transmitted.
Also put it in an acrylic casing and submerge about a teeth of the bigger gears in oil and make a structure on the lid that will drip the oil from the case down on the gears.
Suggestion for no. 1 : individual axels and support with screws connecting the corresponding gear pairs, this means you can separate the gears and get your needed support structures, while also helping out with alignment adjustments and customfit design.
Edit: spelling of torque
Or just add plates in between the gears that hold the shafts together
@@Pawer8 They should be connected to the base, as one axle will be torqued outwards and down, while the other gets torqued outwards up. This effect does stack with each consecutive gear and due to good old Pythagoras we know that if the horizontal distance and the vertical distance grows, so does the hypotenuse. Another thing is vibration nodes, the more the axles can "wobble about" the worse the damage gets.
@@EnraEnerato doesnt matter. As long as the distance between axles is the same the gears will mesh properly. They could swap places and it would still work
tork
@@wompastompa3692 I meant Nm which is not incorrect.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_(disambiguation)
Edit: I just noticed you meant that I worte tork instead of torque, the way you pointet it out I understood you meant I should write that. Guess I should not write on mobile when tired, especially not with the German auto correct on, it doesn't like writing English and kind off breaks. I'll go correct it now.
I dont think the gears are at fault for the slipping. I think its rather the stiffness of the setup thats to blame. Maybe try a steel carrige and shorter axil lengths. This with a metal handel should be able to give you much higher speeds and input torque. There are also a lot of good lubing and bearing advice in the comments.
Man, I really appreciate how long this has been going. Most people would just brush off people doubting your design or questioning the legitimacy of your attempts with this and throw math in our faces about why you actually did do your best. Instead you just keep iterrating this design and making it more efficient.
One suggestion, if I may, is the grip of the handle really optimal? That is to say, the point the sticks out toward you, not the bar perpendicular to the machine. Your hand keeps gravitating toward it, and I think causes the force you're exerting on the machine to be misaligned, causing energy loss and also making it a lot easier to break the handle. It may have also been the source of some of those stutters in this test. Perhaps making the grip larger so you can hold it firmly in your hand would be better?
In addition to this suggestion, I would suggest placing the grip on roller bearings so your hand can remain firmly on the handle. Exerting constant and consistent force.
@@dustinkeier9176 I third it, and honestly, there's something I noticed. I'd say also add a free-spinning grip around the handle, for his grip to better move around the box itself. some of the stutter is from him stopping to adjust his grip, and might be allieviated if, rather than having to adjust his grip, he can keep going by having the grip semi-freely rotating around the handle.
Due to the speed of the grip, a ball centered on the lever would work just fine. You'd have to readjust your grip every few seconds, which isn't an issue unless you have arthritis.
It looks like the torque on the gears is flexing the shafts allowing them to separate and slip. You likely need an intermediate support every 3 gears or so to keep the gears from separating and slipping. Cool design, keep up the good work and have fun.
Some sort of thrust washers in between the gears will take away a lot of friction, and would allow you to make the spacing set in place, which would help the gears not to skip as much
Would it help by stepping through the gears so you start closer to the output gear and slowly build up speed by working back so there’s less of a sudden acceleration and it instead more gradual
3:12 This is my kingdom come
this is my kingdom come
Needle bearing seems like they would work better in this application. The smaller size of the bearing element will also allow you to use a thicker main shaft which should improve rigidity. Also getting better tolerances between the shaft and bearing should help with friction. As for the gear slipping it seems like the backlash/slop on the gears in the center due to the torque spreading the shafts where they are least supported. So either a thicker shaft like suggested, support ribs in the middle, or some zig-zag alignment bracket.
You should just get a C-clamp and 3D print some holders for the bearing as hammering them on like you did is a big non-no.
I'll say, that was most mesmerizing to watch, beautiful design. Like some of the others have suggested, tweaking the orientation of the handle would help with torque. I imagine if you switched out the crank style handle with something akin to an old fashioned hand drill, there would be more consistent force going into the gears instead of going towards the spinning of the axel. And as Nick Sert discussed, the jump from 75 to 76 was very surprising, considering the scale of the machine itself. As my highschool math teacher taught, once you have the equation, and you have your possible range, you can plug and play until you get the right answer. For a machine so simple but also delicate, maybe you overshot the tolerances with 76?
also love the spray pattern of the lubricant as the gears go further down the chain; i would love to see a painting made by subjecting a spinning gearbox to different colors of paint.
"press fit".... *proceeds to smack it with a hammer*
3:11 don't say the word
Cum
Cum...,
cum
@@liticanealright you have gone too far prepare to go to jail
Cum
I have a lot of suggestions to make this work. But the most important are spacers between the bearings and plates between the shafts. Also make them wider and more angled.
Use hydrodynamic bearings for the faster gears
I see alot of space between the bearings and the shaft i would try and make a little shim so it would fit snuggly and also i would remove the dust barrier from the bearings and remove the grease and just put in some silicone spray lubricant, it removes a lot of friction from the system, because these bearings are designed to work for years and not the least friction.
What if you applied the force of the gearbox into a spring? (like the springs from a truck) Could you store the energy for future use and hook the gearbox to a generator for electricity? How much power/weight could the gearbox and spring effectively store?
why so complicated. Sandbag and a rope. Just have to turn it to pull the sandbag up, and then let gravity give you back your energy.
@@TV4ELP thinking the same thing. On condition you have a high elevation. Connect a dynamo and i see a potential energy source for people with no direct electricity supply.
@@TV4ELP A spring from a truck can hold a lot more weight and power per volume. If it holds enough power it could help store wind/solar power.
The gears need to go from very skinny to progressively thicker to withstand the torque. This way the later gears will impart less friction too. Are you already using vapor smoothing on the 3D prints?
As the speed of the gears is increased rotational force becomes to great for the gear teeth to keep their contact, try adding a connecting rod between the input and out put shaft. Transmissions use a the housing to accomplish this.
You should try putting spacers between the gear, like others have repeatedly mentioned to reduce the bend in the rods. Putting a .4-.6mm spacer that is connected to the base will significantly reduce the possibility of the gears slipping. I know you can integrate the spacers without much remodeling of the gears because you already have a .2-.3mm gap between each gear. Slightly widening the smaller inset gear would allow more room for a slightly bigger spacer, which makes the spacer stronger and reduces the possibility of flex further.
Also, maybe try turning the gears the other way, inwardly, like a shredder, because when you rotate the gears outwardly, the lube is getting thrown off the gears, thus wasting lube. It's just something I noticed where you could save some time and money.
Good things to have :
Different thickness of gears
Add a flywheel
Spacers
+4 bearings on stand
Rolling handle
Testing purpose :
Rod spacing bracket, with an adjustable screw
Hollowed gears
Messing around with the solidity of the gears might help, yeah. If we’re going for speed, focusing the weight near the axle would probably be ideal, but you want to make sure it’s solid enough in certain areas to not break.
Try talc or graphite not wet lube
Use the gears as positive molds for a ceramic negative mold and then pour aluminium or brass and don't use ball bearings, use lubricating rods with small gaps with the gears and pump grease into it so it stays with low friction
Widen mount, add bearings to drive shafts(gear assembly axles), create casing to prevent gear oils mess, connect all corresponding gears by double roller chains. Add thrush bearings between individual gear sets on axles. Spline input shaft and crank handle to press on and make handle longer and add wide legs to base/fluid casing assembly to account for longer crank length.
I love your press by the way …true classic I have the fancy press that come in all shapes and sizes
That's a great visual for how a transfer case works in a 4wd truck
One suggestion I have is to make the low torque gears smaller and lighter, also possibly some bronze shims between the gears and going over the teeth with sandpaper, remember the teeth don’t just push on each other they also slide and the less friction there the faster they’ll go. Good work so far very interesting
Since in use you only rotate the handle clockwise, you have an easy option for a drive mechanism. Cut left hand threads on the handle end of the drive shaft. Thread a LH nut onto the shaft to the end of the threads. You can then use a conventional wrench as a crank. If fact, use a socket and a torque wrench and get torque data for the system. That will help in design refinement.
Not sure if someone has mentioned this but good old VW transaxles used progressively sized gears as it went from high gear to 1st. 1st being almost twice as thick and 4th. So you can apply much more torque to the input gears and make the output gears much thinner and lighter... :)
The gear housing should have an interim spacer half way through to prevent play in the rods. Also using bearings in the housing will also reduce friction at these points.
You should also use a bearing press when installing the gears. Using a hammer damages the bearings, or at least malforms them and/or prevents them from being properly aligned between the shaft and the gear.
Try experimenting with tooth profile and gear width - towards the handle, you need larger, wider teeth to handle torque, while at the end they need to be as small as possible to reduce friction.
Both rods are supported with 2 holes on each end. I think that adding a third, thicker support, in the middle would help the gears to not distance themselves from each other.
reduce the distance from 76mm to maybe 75.5mm, have spacers between gears and between the first and last gear and the stand. just the reduction in those high friction areas will improve it so much. also the rod/axle might be bending, have a support between the axles like the spacer you used to measure the gear fit but much narrower.
I would say that scaling down the gears and making them alot smoother would be the ticket here. Shrinking them down primarily to decrease the rotational mass, however this may reduce the amount of strength each tooth may have, so adding some strength to each tooth may need to be necessary.
Finally someone did what you should do and secure it to a table and add a crank on the end.
lived just outside of denver and had a micro center to enjoy... moved to tampa, fl and the nearest micro center is in atlanta, ga... /cry
Need tighter figment on the shaft and the bearing also use ceramic bearings. They have less friction and free spin much easier.
You could probably make the gear spacer more of a cone shape that expands from 75 mm(at the handle) to 76 mm(at the other end) to further reduce slipping.
Another thing that can help is for you to make the gears lighter in weight as they get further from the handle.
how could You MAKE the GEARS LIGHTER!?!?!?!?
and HOW SOMEONE FOUND YOUR COMMENT!?!?!?!?
I love the Micro Center in Michigan. That where my family gets the very reliable PowerSpec computers from. The computer I have is the 4th computer we bought form there and our 3rd 8 year old computer is still functioning and reliable although it’s hard drive is original and most likely dying so going to clone it onto a 2.5 SATA SSD soon.
For the handle if you weld a nut onto the shaft you would be able to just use a 1/2 inch drive rachet or even an impact driver, but that would obviously be overkill. But it would work.
try putting stabelizers between the rods in the middle to prevent them from bending outwards so the gears won't slip
Lovely to see that vibration in faster wheels.
Spacer and alignment between each gear. This will also keep the gears from spreading away from each other.
75.5mm spacing and a centre support for the mount might help. I rebuild truck gearboxes if it's any consolation but you'll need to play with your spacing between the two shafts 0.1mm can make all the difference between success and failure just like setting your bearing load on the real thing, 3thou is all the tolerance you get before complete destruction or perfection
It's appears you lose a lot of energy when stops to pull the pulley. Maybe friction is the problem, a some comments suggests improvements in this point, but I think that whould be interesting that you get some kind of a heavy flywheel to attach in the speedy side. It will help you to maintain the energy.
I don't know why I got this video in my recommended list but it's cool, I really enjoyed watching this.
to further reduce the friction you could
use cycloidal gears they may be hard to design but have a lot of beneficial propities
remove all the seals in the bearings
remove the grease and replace it with light oil for even less friction but this will have a negative effect on bearing life.
use roller bearings instead of ball bearings
If there's a way to add multiple cranks or design a shifter, could get the lower gears up to speed first then start going down to gears with more torque and more in the chain when everything's already moving and its a bit easier to add more force
Looks like it just needs a thin flat plate in the middle to keep the 2 drive rods from flexing under the torque you can clearly see them bending away from one another when the middle gears get up the speed 👌
Just a thought, use dry bearings with a few drops of a lightweight lubricating oil in each one, the grease contained in bearings as a rule although is quite lubricidous is actually quite high friction.
Nice to see you actually read and use comments, I recommended a chevron gear instead of straight.
I want to see something like this but in a fully enclosed see thru case with gear oil so it's constantly lubricated and we can see it throwing the oil around... best choice may be automotive gear oil ( 80w-90 )
Make the helical angle more steep, so the self aligning gets more aggressive
Great video! A word of advice… Dry lube is meant to be applied and then supposed to dry on the gears! That way you don’t have to keep re applying.
Angle the teeth and valleys so they are not at 90 degrees to the circumference, but at 45 degrees or more to the circumference, (like the profile of a tiger shark's tooth) the teeth should self-lock together and should be unable to skip because the gear wheels will want to pull themselves toward each other. also, some kind of spacer between gears on the same shaft to mitigate gear to gear friction losses.
Get some ceramic dry bearings like in the fidget spinners or take the dust shields off the bearings and dry them out and try increasing the spacing between the gars it sounds like they are catching a little at speed and try graphite as your gear lube
A vice is much better for press fitting than a hammer. It is much more controlled and if you get the bearing lined up it should stay parallel all the way in, it also makes sure the bearing is perfectly parallel with the printed part, unlike hammering it in where it might be ever so slightly angled.
You could try reducing the pressure angle on the gear teeth that will reduce skipping but the drawback is weaker teeth. If the teeth aren't breaking you could reduce the pressure angle to 0 and completely eliminate skipping.
You can try "teflon lubricant", it's a lot drier and should give enough lubricity to be able to run tris properly
It'd be really interesting to see a heat view of the gearbox using infrared
that would actually help to figure out where the most friction is too.
Looks like a support in the middle to ease the flex in your axles might help.
Use polishing compound (like Turtle Wax) to run-in the gears. That will reduce internal friction significantly.
Now you're running into forces that are pushing the gear rods apart. I would say to push it farther you would want longer gear teeth, print bracing for the middle of the rods, and make the faster gears progressively lighter weight. If you keep going at some point those gears are going to begin flying apart from centrifugal force so you'll need to consider stronger materials such as carbon fiber or filament that's more stretchy than brittle. (like nylon or HDPE)
Introducing the grease sprinkler: for all your greasing needs!
if those are 'smooth rods' like the ones on some 3d printer they are VERY hard, they are a bearing wear surface and typically are hardened after precision grinding and then plated with something even harder, normally chromium. im sure you smoked quite a few bits drilling that bit hats off to the persistence, if you need to drill very hard materials in the future look for carbide tooling.
I recall seeing a video quite some time ago where someone made a fidget spinner by placing sets of bearings inside other bearings to reduce friction, perhaps multiple bearings would reduce friction
Try adding another set of gears to the sides to keep it compressed and as other have said, add more spacing, less rattling noise = more perfect
I'm not sure if you designed these gears or got them online, but you should be able to find the exact spacing the gears should be from each other by finding the average pitch diameter between the larger gear and the smaller gear. you can find the pitch diameter of each gear with this formula: (N*p)/π, where N is the number of teeth on the gear, and p is the circular pitch. Circular pitch can be found by measuring from a point on one tooth to the corresponding point on the next tooth.
Nother tip: Add spacers to the bearings so that the bearing's inner ring is aligned all the way through and friction between the bearing and rod is reduced, because I'm looking at it and the bearings are just moving along with the gears instead of the outer ring mover independently of the inner ring. Also add some bearing lubricant or just super lube. Source: Am a skamteborder.
It may help to make the teeth on the gears deeper and a touch wider to help reduce slipp
“Press fit” 🤨
😂 only messing with you.
Love the vid and build!
As stated needs spacers to not allow side sliding which will help keep aligned
When the faster gears are turning the gear spacing and alignment change. You need more shaft supports throughout it.
Further improvements: some kind of spacer so gears aren’t rubbing against one another, and only touching at the teeth. Or sanding the flat sides of the gears to reduce friction.
I think the best would be to add a flywheel at the end of the gearbox. As soon as it starts picking up speed spinning the crank will be way easier. Also I'd say cast everything out of metal to make all the parts more resistant, but it's just what I would do
I would add some spacers to the gears, maybe that’ll help with the shaking. Btw, if you have a personal contact with micro center, you should tell them to open a store in souther Indiana.
Needs a support half way down the shaft to prevent the vibrations from shifting the shaft too far away and the gears slipping
Gearbox was awesome😎
There is a lot of friction generated by using sealed bearings (The seal and bearing grease x # of bearings). Use unlubricated ceramic bearings for this application. Ceramic roller bearings are more stable than ball bearings (although more expensive).
Use a larger handle to give yourself more leverage. Usually makes it easier to get the gears spinning.
Teaches alot of kids about how transmissions work manual or none this would be great to show people how to work on them and how to learn about cars in the engineering feild
FINALLY someone who used the other end of the gear reduction cycle, man...most of them just say "if I would spin the other side the gears wouldn't even move because of friction bla bla bla". Thanks for awnsering an doubt of mine if gears can be used as "feeders" rather than only reduction.
I live in so cal and I haven’t heard of this store. I’ll have to check it out
Best computer store imo! Very popular for building custom PCs
Water fall oil or submerge and add a constant force. A tiny change on your end is a huge force on the end
Consider some kind of windup for the first gear, having it be a solid axle might be too much stress on the assembly as a whole
Get a plastic or rubber hammer for those press fits. With the metal hammer you can easily damage your bearings
Watched this vid 3 times over, and speaking as a Technician i can say you got most of the major issues out of the way. Now you main issue with the gears gripping and skipping comes down to accuracy and alignment.
Since the gears are filament "printed" there WILL be some deflection and warping as they cool. So as with most parts I'd suggest giving the sides a very light grind so they are more parallel to each other and once they are, Bore out the hole for the bearings so it will be at a 90 degree angle to the sides, this should reduce your vibrations and make the gears run better as there will be less deflection while spinning on the axel.
Nick sert is pretty spot on with everything 👌. Follow some of his instructions to move further
deeper gear teeths and a smaller play between gears (also rounding down the edges of the teeth should help)
You are Great engineer, i love engineering👨🔧😃🥰❤😎👍
Possibilities n reach of human brain. I love 2 see this. 👌👍