B15 (Signature Sound Alloy) production development and issues.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2024
- Fritz Steger talks about the development of the Signature alloy (B15), why Robert Paiste developed it and the initial production issues that caused serious cracking issues!
Paiste's B15 (Signature Sound Alloy) blanks are supplied by the "Wieland works" in Vöhringen Germany.
They were initially supplied by "Kovohutí Příbram" from the Czech republic but they had serious issues with cracking, once the production moved to Wieland, the issue was resolved.
B15 like B20, goes through some of the same processes: initially hot rolled to about 60mm thickness then the last stage is cold rolled.
Also, it is not tempered like traditional B20 cymbals but is annealed.
Using this alloy allows for greater consistency between blanks compared to traditional B20 cymbal alloy, and is more inline with Paiste's B8 production methods.
Once they arrive at Paiste, they would have to heat the whole of the cymbal again to anneal it and then press the in the bell.
After this process, the blank is allowed to cool for 24 hours. As a result of annealing, the material is now more pliable, tougher and ready for hammering.
Paiste's cymbal production process: www.cymbal.wik...
Paiste Signature: www.cymbal.wik...
www.cymbal.wik...
I could listen to this guy talk about alloys all day.
Mr. Fritz is a Gold Mine of information!
He worked directly with Robert and Toomas throughout the 2000s.
Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting and great job for Paiste for making this amazing signature line 👍
Mr. Fritz: "B15 has both the nice cuttting-through frequencies but also a lot of middle" Spot-on. Love my Sigs.
Very interesting!!! Thank you for making these videos!
this is awesome. Love Paiste
Awesome thank you!!!!
Thank you for information Fritz
veeeeery interesting, thanks!
Wow, just great i learn a lot.
I purchased a 20” Paiste Signature Power Crash used great condition in 2007. Not sure what age it is but it had started to crack somewhere around the stamp maybe in 2019. I attempted to “repair” by drilling holes at the ends of the cracks to keep them from cracking further. It’s been working so far but now there’s a crack right under the bell. These are about a two-three inch crack. I’m curious if this is what they are referring to.
You mention massive cracking problems in the first year of Signature production. I bought two Full Crashes in 1989 (which are from the first production year). They are perfectly free of cracks up to now, the 16“ is played constantly in these 35 years.
The B15 alloy was originally supplied by a Czech foundry that had the issues, they may have been very early production runs that were only sold in Europe...
My two Signature Full Crashes were bought in Europe (Germany) - maybe not all batches had the issues. Mine hold up very well!
Cool
So the material for the sheet metal bronze after rolling wil loose about 40% waste, but I think this refers to b15 because of the brittle properties. They maybe resale the leftover to re melt. The chinese crashes from wuhan I have sure have a trashy sound, which is good in a way sometimes.
Yes, this applies to B15 only, the scrap is melted down and reused.
I don't think any other cymbal company uses B15, I know Paiste had a patent on it for several years, but that may have run out.
My understanding is: in order to get the alloy to sound a certain way, the way Robert wanted, it has to be "cold rolled" (instead of hot rolled) in the last rolling stage to bring the thickness down to the proper level.
B8 is softer and doesn't crack from cold rolling, B20 can't be cold rolled at any point: it has to always be heated so it doesn't crack and fall apart while rolling....
Zildjian had a b15 line, Project 391