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Eh. So, there's actually a bit of logic to this. Iron weapons are going to be made with as much weight reduction in mind as possible, while Steel are going to be light yet strong enough to warrant more robust weapons. A Steel Sword isn't the exact same sword as an Iron Sword, except in steel, it's an overall more bulky design, made usable because of the better material. You can actually see this a bit in the games, especially Path of Radiance. Also I'm pretty sure Silver weapons are just enchanted. Not like "this sword is on fire", but low impact "+1 Longsword" level.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Actually, the "logic" behind is simpler. silver weigh slightly less than the other two. A weapon made of silver, while being far more fragile, can be as sharp while being slightly lighter. It's kinda take upon literally in the game. Iron is made to be the sharpest weapon tho in real life, silver is a too much fragile component to be efficient in war.
I always assumed silver weapons weren't fully made out of silver but were weapons so well crafted by an expert smith and used silver for decorative parts.
Polearms have dominated the meta for thousands of years on various civilizations throught the world. That is, until that one balance patch that made guns a bit too OP came out...
I always thought that the reason axes beat lances is because the axe user will try to dodge a stab from the one with a lance, then proceed to break it's handle with the axe, turning it into a stick. Keep in mind that the stick would still be effective against swords.
The reasoning is that an axe is a weapon built for getting up close and personal whereas a spear (what the lance should probably be called) is designed to attack enemies with reach. So if an axe user does manage to close the gap on a spearman it's basically curtains since the spearman wouldn't have enough space to adequately use his weapon. The problem would be getting close enough to a spearman without getting jabbed.
Frederick has more validity to that claim due to A) having full control of the weapon triangle as a Great Knight, and B) how the reclass system works in Awakening.
Except it's a moving piece of wood that is immensely more nimble than the axe, outranges the axe, and since the front of the wood isn't supported by anything the axe would actually just kinda knock the wood down, into a disadvantageous position for both parties, which is actually an advantage to the wood because it means they have a free window to disengage and get the range advantage again.
IIRC Skallagrim actually made a really solid video on the weapon triangle. The spear vs axe matchup is actually pretty even, as the axe user is always threatening to hook the spear and take control of it, allowing the axe user to get in. Once the axe user is in grapple range, the matchup is decisively in the axe user's favor. This mostly applies to 1v1 scenarios though. When it comes to soldier formations like the famous Roman phalanx, spears and other polearms have a massive advantage over other weapons.
The Greeks did phalanxes with spears. The typical Roman strategy was lining up behind their huge shields, launching one or two javelins, and then proceeding to close combat with short stabbing swords, using their shields as cover as they jabbed with their swords.
@@mojavefry2617 Ahhh, ok. Thanks for the historical correction. I just kinda assumed that the tortoise formation was just "phalanx 2, now with tower shields".
@@webbowser8834 The romans did actually use phalanxes! so you were correct, however they phased it out for swords and big shields later as they performed better on rougher terrains, a phalanx is kind of useless if you can't keep the formation.
New patch 1.3.4 : -Weapon triangle no longer exist -Spears all get first strike -Archers can now stab you with arrows -You can no longer dodge gigantic explosion of pure magic -Plague rats.
Yes-yes many rat-rats, game is now Rat Emblem, all hail Great Horned Rat, yes-yes, best class-units are Stormvermin, Ratling Gunners, and Rat Ogres, yes-yes.
@@robertwindshade7629 from Mangs fe4 ranked run. Thing is, it has a lot of parts. I would really watch it only if you have time, cause otherwise don't watch it, or watch it very passively
So you're telling me that my spell "Desert Eagle" is not magic ? But it seemed really effective against enemies with low Res. Come to think of it, it was also really effective against enemies with high Res...
Okay...but what are Brave/Hero weapons made out of? I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason Excel kills so many units is to fuel his...production line.
Brave weapons are actually established in 3 Houses as being made of Wootz Steel, a specialized class of steel with recognizable bands running along it It's generally stronger than other common variants of steel owing to a better carbon balance
@@byzantiphile7630 Hey, no one's saying they aren't Where do you think the carbon came from? Fun fact, Vikings accidentally did this because they had a ritual where they'd burn their family's bones in with their iron to imbue their weapons with power What they didn't realize is that this ACTUALLY WORKED
@@red5t653 That's actually pretty interesting with regards to the vikings. I'll definitely have to look that up. I'm surprised the heat was enough to burn off the carbon to any significant degree.
@@byzantiphile7630 if I remember correctly viking smelted bones of animals into their weapons, accidentally making steel because of the carbon content of the bones, so your theory of where the brave weapons could be kind of right
Polearms is the king of all weapons. It's cheap, effective and easy to use (but hard to master tho). Anyone who doesn't know a single thing about combat can still use them because it's just a pointy stick right? But it also has variety of type for situations. You want to pierce enemies armor? Use the halberd. Want to take down that horseman? Use the pike... or the halberd. Want to cut enemies like an axe? Use the glaive... or the halberd (seriously halberd is op). Want to attack from far away? Throw a javelin (seriously you can't throw the halberd like a javelin because it's heavy). Even villagers and fishermen have their own polearms
I think the weapon triangle makes sense from an abstract angle where weapons represent unit roles. Axes are shock troops meant to break a defensive line, which are represented by Lances. Swords are light infantry or skirmishers that can outmanuever Axes but lack the brute force required to punch through Lances. Total War games have basically the same RPS set-up when you see it like this. Armor-piercing 2-handers beat armored shielded guys head-on. Armored shielded guys are impervious to skirmisher attacks. Skirmishers kite the 2-handers and hit them in the back.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Silver weapons are good for dealing major damage to bosses. Steel weapons are good for units that cannot attack consecutively but can create bottlenecks.
@@joshuagabrielcatindig7607 Most games show them as Katanas/more Japanese inspired designs. Uh, so, someone dropped a "Katanas are underpowered in Fire Emblem" Copypasta, and we got Killers.
The weapon triangle was invented by Anna just to sell Reaver weapons. Don't just self a mercenary a sword. Sell him one sword to use against bandits and sell him another sword to use against calvary.
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx No, I meant the Lancereaver. I only mentioned cavs because the only other lance wielder I could think of were armors, and Anna sells you a THIRD sword for that and it has nothing to do with the triangle she made up.
My theory is that the reason swordsmen have trouble with polearms is most likely to do with the fact that most spear users also carry a shield to deflect sword strikes with or are on horseback and thus use a proper lance to have a real reach and mobility advantage, while most axe users are lightly armored or don't even bother with armor, making them highly susceptible to the nimbler hewing weapon meanwhile said axe bros have the advantage over the shield wielding lancer because axes hit way harder and can hook both the shield and the spear, while being less affected by the comparatively slim surface area of weapon coming back at them due to their outrageous physique so clearly we can conclude that the Great Knight is the ultimate warrior, combining every advantage of everything available outside of maybe long-range attack capability a la the archery bros also, rip magic, it was fun while it lasted
Tbf, if we're going on a realistic side of things, Lances beats everyone, bows are Echoes bows + hitrate, Cavalry should mow down almost any foot class if not soldier, and most axes should be sent to the bench for they're way too large. So Horse Emblem best Emblem, fite me with that myrmidon -3 strengh m8
Not necessarily. In a real world duel a foot soldier with a sword/knife & shield beats a foot soldier with a lance because once he gets into range the lancer is 100% dead. Of course this is why in the real world you give your soldier multiple weapons 😅. A knife/sword is an obligatory weapon EVEN TODAY. The main utility of a foot soldier lancer is as an anti-cavalry shock troop. This forces the enemy to run armored warhorses, which will operate more like a tank, and will just try to trample their way in and crush the lancers. In my opinion the light armored horses we see in pre-promote cavalry units in FE would have a very hard time being useful with a lance. They would do much better as horse archers, which would actually counter the armored warhorses which can no longer keep up. I have to agree that axes really have no place on a battlefield at all. If you needed a blade on the back side for some reason you're just far better off with a polearm, glaive, swordstaff, or idk like literally 2 swords in 1 hand LOL
Axes are perhaps the counter to lances for the wider blade that may be capable of blocking the lancetip, the gap between the axe head and long handle that might be used to snag the lance pole, or even for a possible capability to just chop the lancepole in half. It also may be a reference to a close-range axe wielder being able to dash past the lance's effective range, since a long pointy stick is only good if your enemy is beyond the point and thus can be stabbed with the point. If your enemy has moved too close for you to stab them with the point, you just have a stick at an awkward angle.
The supposed reason why axes are supposed to beat lances is that the axe users are supposed to be bulky enough to close the gap on the lance users even after taking a hit. Which sounds like an absolutely terrible idea to try and execute not gonna lie.
Axes chop the wooden spear shafts in half. They dont need range, just swing at the spear as the enemy extends it to attach you. Then they are left holding half a spear shaft with no tip. You win. This is all assuming anime levels of strength which may be required to perform this feat.
@@aussiejo5764 Eh, a light sword is a lot more manuverable, fencing manuvers work with most kinds of swords, and that gives you ability to avoid an axe. And if you have a khopesh, you can hook the axe's handle. A longer sword, though, a claymore or something, is a lot like an axe, but with other uses as a makeshift spear. Using an axe, whether to chop wood or fight, is all about momentum. And then you whiff a strike and your axehead goes into the dirt, dulling its edge and opening you up.
I think the funniest thing about the Axe>lance because cut lance handle in half argument, is that it implies the lance user is stupid enough to either A. guard an attack with the handle, or B. That you aren’t facing the Spear end of the lance. The lance user would have killed the axe user long before the axe user could reach the flank of the lance, all it takes is one good, well placed lance thrust.
Sword can parry the axe and win through sheer mobility, but struggles against range of a lance, while axe can both pull the lance and easily break it's hilt. So the logic is there. It wouldn't work in actual large scale battle (lances would be by far the best due to their range), but in 1 v 1 it makes sense. Trinity of magic on the other hand is kinda sus. Fire beats wind, wind beats thunder, thunder beats fire when realistically it should work in reverse. Then there's dark and light which work differently in every game they're in.
This reminds me of a story arc in a book I read. People from two different cultures both had an actual rock-paper-scissors game but with gestures representing elements... and a rather severe misunderstanding ensued when both sides thought they won the game because their cultures played the elemental matchups in opposite directions.
They also found that genocide cannot be justified in the name of "stopping the emperor because he is possessed by an evil dragon". Dragons aren't real either
Next you will tell me that any person is actually able to ride a horse and slice/stab people up with their weapon of choice. Myrmidons in horses, like that could actually happen.
Actually, yes. Plate is much lighter than most people think, and video games have tried to suggest. The main issue isn't weight, it's actually venting, because most of your heat is trapped in by the armor.
Axes beating lances actually does make some amount of sense because axes can do something swords can't: they can 'hook' the lance. Most axe blades extend down far enough to the point where you're able to trap something in between the blade and the handle. If you're able to successfully pull it of, you can simply push the lance out of the way and close the distance that way. This doesn't really work on swords because not only are they significantly faster and more mobile than lances, they also just have less handle to actually hook (hooking the blade isn't nearly as effective).
There’s a video from either Shadiversity or Skallagrim, I forget which one, but the video goes into how the weapon triangle kinda makes sense, but axes beating lances was the weakest part.
And its replacement, the MyPlate, is ALSO wrong, because people don't actually need dairy most of the time It's just there because the dairy lobby demands it
The easiest way to fix the pyramid is to merge meat and dairy, swap vegetables and grain, put fruit in grain, separate oil from junk food, and bury junk food out in an unmarked grave for it is not fit to accompany the pharaoh that is your body into the afterlife, and should be used to lure graverobbers. I don't know what shape I just made, but let's call it a Food Eye of Horus, to keep the theming. The Food Metatron Cube might also work, if you have hangups about allowing cultures that don't acknowledge YHWH as part of your diet.
Sword implies skill, axe represent strength and lance is the balance of the 2. So its not actually about the weapon but what it represent, as in rock paper scissor. Skill beat strength, and strength beat jack of all trade while jack of all trade results in beating 1 specific skill.
fire emblem in 2030. All lances have 1-2 range. Bows have 5-50 range, but can't shoot through walls. Swords can parry other swords. All buildings/terrain are destructible, but axes do effective damage against forest tiles.
technically, axes are some of the best weapons other than lances to use in combat. does heavy damage against armor, can come real close, even closer than sword range and can mess with lance users movement if they hook on to the pole
I guess I kinda figured that you can block a sword swing with a lance just fine but an axe has a lot more heft which would be harder to block. Realistically lance should have advantage against both swords and axes because of the extra range of the weapon but it’s video game logic and balance you’re dealing with. Some tactics rpgs even give lances 2 range and bows like 6 or more range which is honestly fair.
Swordsmen should beat archers because they (logically) would/should carry shields, axmen should beat swordsmen because an ax can be used to pull the shield out of the way, lancers beat axmen because they outrange them, and archers beat lancers because they have no shields to block arrows. Idk know about any other interaction tho.
Realistically speaking, one handed axes are always paired with shields, which make for a good counter to spears. The issue arises then axes with shields goes evenly against swords with shields and would beat a sword without a shield, and nothing is stopping a spear from using a shield either, albeit it puts something of a limit on the length of a spear which causes all three to even out. Eventually though when armor becomes more commonplace the shield gets ditched in favor of two handed weapons. Axes become poleaxes or halberds, spears become pikes, and swords become the definitive sidearm they already were.
Actually, yes. A huge joke. You have immensely long windup, that leaves you open and precariously balanced, you're still outranged by spears which can poke you while you're signaling the Dark Souls player to roll, you commit so heavily to strikes that anyone can just walk around you and poke you before you can become a threat again, and the real halberd chad has already just laughed, tipped his floppy hat, and clubbed you with the blunt end so he can be paid to fight you again, the bells on his pantaloons punctuating your embarrassment. Even compared to a two handed sword, the fact that you have such a narrow part of your swing that is dangerous means your allies can't even rely on you.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I don't think you understand the real weight of two-handed axes. Skallagrim made a video recently where he sparred with one, and you can see just how fast they can be. Sure, its a prop, so its a bit faster than a real axe, but two handed axes don't weigh much more than two-handed swords, in some cases weighing less. They are less maneuverable because they are top heavy, but their extra reach makes up for it. Not to mention that you can still thrust with a two-handed axe. In addition, this isn't taking into account armor at all, which swords are really shitty at dealing with.
@@xenocross6597 to deal better with shields for example. With an axe you can more easely strike around an shield. To hit the shoulder for example. ( note, not hit the shield in order to destroy it, except you like to fight with an stucked axe in the oponents shield while he has an weapon aviable with you in an good position to strike )
I always immaged swords to be effective against axes because they are more agile, spears against swords because they are longer, and axes against spears because the axes being heavier would break the spear if the adversary tried to parry or keep distance
Actually it's not that simple since everything depends on the situation, axes can be pretty effective on destroying shields or hooking them out of the way, spears works wonders on formations and swords are really good weapons to carry around on your daily life for self defense in ancient times. Each weapon has it's purpose.
Technically lances with wooden poles would lose to axes in a fight where both sides would be in each other's reach, since the axe would be able to easily chop through the wooden pole. But that is only possible in that specific scenario
My justification for the weapon triangle: Swords > Axes; because sophisticated swordsmanship beats the crude technique of axebarians. Lances > Swords; because longer reach, duh. Axes > Lances; because unlike swordsmen who will be wary of approaching too close, axemen will just recklessly charge in and not even care if they get stabbed, surprising the lancers who are used to keeping their foes at a distance with sudden melee.
Bows have 50 range?!? But what about our ballisticians? How're they gonna support their families if every hotshot archer is putting them out of a job!?!
Axes actually are pretty good against lances due to the fact that, assuming you can dodge a good hit, axes are pretty good at breaking spear shafts. Like the idea was 100% came up with for game balance but it does have a little bit of sense
Lances aren't better than axes, even in combat sparring between two people in padded armor there was a reason why up close weapons were still used, yes you have a range advantage but the follow up, and the strikes coming next; with an axe let alone a two handed axe you're able to strike the opponent, and have another follow up strike on your opponent. Range has it's purpose but in a time, and place. On less of an even playing ground said weapon would play out better.
Also, realistically, steel is less dense than iron, meaning steel weapons should be lighter than iron weapons.
They use tungsten hilts to even it out
Eh.
So, there's actually a bit of logic to this.
Iron weapons are going to be made with as much weight reduction in mind as possible, while Steel are going to be light yet strong enough to warrant more robust weapons.
A Steel Sword isn't the exact same sword as an Iron Sword, except in steel, it's an overall more bulky design, made usable because of the better material. You can actually see this a bit in the games, especially Path of Radiance.
Also I'm pretty sure Silver weapons are just enchanted. Not like "this sword is on fire", but low impact "+1 Longsword" level.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Actually, the "logic" behind is simpler. silver weigh slightly less than the other two. A weapon made of silver, while being far more fragile, can be as sharp while being slightly lighter. It's kinda take upon literally in the game.
Iron is made to be the sharpest weapon tho in real life, silver is a too much fragile component to be efficient in war.
@@Rigald02 I guess that’s why Silver Weapons have generally low durability (20 durability in the GBA games iirc).
@@Rigald02 Bronze, ironically for FE, can be sharpened to ridiculous proportions
And that's why everyone hated the Valentians, for they spoke the truth about the weapon triangle.
Bows best everything?
@@sohn7767 Archers learned how to draw a bow on close range, of course
@@thiccmoulder7511 while air-born from a flip
Axes aren't even weapons in Valentia. They knew the truth.
@@Vassilinia they are but you can’t use them
Next you're going to tell me that I can't shoot enemies inside a different room that has a wall and a roof
Tellius moment.
about that...
Imprisoned Lilina trembling and shaking from an Archer
No actually that one’s entirely possible
@@1calv they had holes in the animation tho
"Magic isn't real"
And at that moment, mages discovered the power of powder and developed the very first iron tome.
So a gun then?
_Medieval gun._
Iron Tome, the best tome for str mages. Can't get weapon triangle countered after all.
Now Robin, for his neutral special, he wields an *Iron **_Gun_*
@@heartofthefluft8541 the Summoner: I wish mine could do that
They also told us that sending children with stones isn't a broken tactic exactly
But what if that stone is Jagen?
@@valeriob36 In that case we should say that sending a young, barefooted, kinda stupid man to battle isn't the best idea either
“Magic isn’t real”
“Then what have we been casting this whole war?”
bullets
"Also bows have like fifty range" was the best line
I always assumed silver weapons weren't fully made out of silver but were weapons so well crafted by an expert smith and used silver for decorative parts.
Yeah that's what I always thought. It makes no sense to make the entire weapon out of solid silver. Way too expensive and highly impractical.
Good thought.
@@kylepessell1350 well, unless there Is a werewolf
Polearms have dominated the meta for thousands of years on various civilizations throught the world. That is, until that one balance patch that made guns a bit too OP came out...
even then they just made rifles into polearms by attaching a knife to the end of the cannon
@@davidjimenez3822 that was so broken for mid range combat for real
Sadly this meta has evolved into ranged combat
guns are so fucking cringe.
return to beating people to death with rocks, like real men.
OK, TierZoo.
@@jorgeelias385 Yeah, the devs really over patched it. I mean, now it's illegal to use certain versions!
I always thought that the reason axes beat lances is because the axe user will try to dodge a stab from the one with a lance, then proceed to break it's handle with the axe, turning it into a stick. Keep in mind that the stick would still be effective against swords.
Just grabbing the lance would be a better option.
No respect for my swordmasters out in the real world 😔
My thoughts exactly.
you break lance in half, you get two lance.
lance win every time
The reasoning is that an axe is a weapon built for getting up close and personal whereas a spear (what the lance should probably be called) is designed to attack enemies with reach. So if an axe user does manage to close the gap on a spearman it's basically curtains since the spearman wouldn't have enough space to adequately use his weapon. The problem would be getting close enough to a spearman without getting jabbed.
And as a wise man once said: Seth beats everything
Except in real life a horde of harberder because they have harberd
Frederick has more validity to that claim due to A) having full control of the weapon triangle as a Great Knight, and B) how the reclass system works in Awakening.
Axes chop wood
Lances are glorified long wood sticks
Axes chop lances.
Except it's a moving piece of wood that is immensely more nimble than the axe, outranges the axe, and since the front of the wood isn't supported by anything the axe would actually just kinda knock the wood down, into a disadvantageous position for both parties, which is actually an advantage to the wood because it means they have a free window to disengage and get the range advantage again.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 no, it isnt more nimble. U would think axe is heavy, but in reality, hand axe isnt heavy, its actully lighter than sword
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Axe cut lance. unga bunga
A realistic explanation I've heard to axes beating lances is that axes can be used to hook and deflect/disarm lances, thanks to their shape.
Another one is that axes just straight-up break lances because they're just long sticks.
IIRC Skallagrim actually made a really solid video on the weapon triangle. The spear vs axe matchup is actually pretty even, as the axe user is always threatening to hook the spear and take control of it, allowing the axe user to get in. Once the axe user is in grapple range, the matchup is decisively in the axe user's favor.
This mostly applies to 1v1 scenarios though. When it comes to soldier formations like the famous Roman phalanx, spears and other polearms have a massive advantage over other weapons.
Yep, that's this one: th-cam.com/video/-N2VibnjB6g/w-d-xo.html
Yeah I was thinking about this as well.
The Greeks did phalanxes with spears.
The typical Roman strategy was lining up behind their huge shields, launching one or two javelins, and then proceeding to close combat with short stabbing swords, using their shields as cover as they jabbed with their swords.
@@mojavefry2617 Ahhh, ok. Thanks for the historical correction. I just kinda assumed that the tortoise formation was just "phalanx 2, now with tower shields".
@@webbowser8834 The romans did actually use phalanxes! so you were correct, however they phased it out for swords and big shields later as they performed better on rougher terrains, a phalanx is kind of useless if you can't keep the formation.
Also steel is lighter and stronger than iron
It's still heavier than feathers though.
Steel is just better filtered iron, it checks out
Steel is better in every way than iron
@@rubberduck8096 No wonder the Feather Sword in FEH is so much better than the Steel Sword
New patch 1.3.4 :
-Weapon triangle no longer exist
-Spears all get first strike
-Archers can now stab you with arrows
-You can no longer dodge gigantic explosion of pure magic
-Plague rats.
Yes-yes many rat-rats, game is now Rat Emblem, all hail Great Horned Rat, yes-yes, best class-units are Stormvermin, Ratling Gunners, and Rat Ogres, yes-yes.
And remember: swords beat axes, swords beat lances, and swords beat swords
Damn, that one line has lived rent free in my head for a while, I might just rewatch that fe4 ranked run
@@OrlandoAguirre222 What's it from? Now I'm curious in giving it a watch.
@@robertwindshade7629 from Mangs fe4 ranked run. Thing is, it has a lot of parts. I would really watch it only if you have time, cause otherwise don't watch it, or watch it very passively
@@OrlandoAguirre222 Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the tip!
@@robertwindshade7629 I think it’s from Part 1, if not Part 2. It’s in the Prologue, I remember that much.
So you're telling me that my spell "Desert Eagle" is not magic ? But it seemed really effective against enemies with low Res.
Come to think of it, it was also really effective against enemies with high Res...
So that's what luna is
and next hes gonna tell us, that dragons arent real either... yeah sure buddy
Only if you don't count comodo dragons
Okay...but what are Brave/Hero weapons made out of? I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason Excel kills so many units is to fuel his...production line.
Brave weapons are actually established in 3 Houses as being made of Wootz Steel, a specialized class of steel with recognizable bands running along it
It's generally stronger than other common variants of steel owing to a better carbon balance
@@red5t653 Look here, buzzkill. If I want to pretend it's made of the distilled remains of dead blue units, you and all your lore can't stop me!
@@byzantiphile7630 Hey, no one's saying they aren't
Where do you think the carbon came from?
Fun fact, Vikings accidentally did this because they had a ritual where they'd burn their family's bones in with their iron to imbue their weapons with power
What they didn't realize is that this ACTUALLY WORKED
@@red5t653 That's actually pretty interesting with regards to the vikings. I'll definitely have to look that up. I'm surprised the heat was enough to burn off the carbon to any significant degree.
@@byzantiphile7630 if I remember correctly viking smelted bones of animals into their weapons, accidentally making steel because of the carbon content of the bones, so your theory of where the brave weapons could be kind of right
ALL OF THE SILVER BOWS I STOLE
USELESSSSS
No worries, they're still 50 range
Polearms is the king of all weapons. It's cheap, effective and easy to use (but hard to master tho). Anyone who doesn't know a single thing about combat can still use them because it's just a pointy stick right? But it also has variety of type for situations. You want to pierce enemies armor? Use the halberd. Want to take down that horseman? Use the pike... or the halberd. Want to cut enemies like an axe? Use the glaive... or the halberd (seriously halberd is op). Want to attack from far away? Throw a javelin (seriously you can't throw the halberd like a javelin because it's heavy). Even villagers and fishermen have their own polearms
I think the weapon triangle makes sense from an abstract angle where weapons represent unit roles.
Axes are shock troops meant to break a defensive line, which are represented by Lances.
Swords are light infantry or skirmishers that can outmanuever Axes but lack the brute force required to punch through Lances.
Total War games have basically the same RPS set-up when you see it like this.
Armor-piercing 2-handers beat armored shielded guys head-on.
Armored shielded guys are impervious to skirmisher attacks.
Skirmishers kite the 2-handers and hit them in the back.
Shopkeepers are geniuses, they sell you silver weapons at a premium while buying your steel weapons for cheap. Only one of those actually work ...
I mean, Silver weapons in Fire Emblem are really just low level enchanted weapons. So...
@@aprinnyonbreak1290
Silver weapons are good for dealing major damage to bosses.
Steel weapons are good for units that cannot attack consecutively but can create bottlenecks.
What are Killers, then?
@@joshuagabrielcatindig7607
Most games show them as Katanas/more Japanese inspired designs.
Uh, so, someone dropped a "Katanas are underpowered in Fire Emblem" Copypasta, and we got Killers.
“Oh and magic isn’t real” Disney: “See ya in court bud”.
“Axes are weak against everything”
Tell that to anyone who has played the Tellius games. Haar can and will solo your entire army with a brave axe.
I always thought that axes can break lances, like an axe chopping a stick
Next you're gonna say that there's an art for throwing swords to enable sword-locked characters to get 1-2 range early...
Knives should've been the common 1-2 range weapons for swords tbh. Like hand axes and javelins
The weapon triangle was invented by Anna just to sell Reaver weapons.
Don't just self a mercenary a sword. Sell him one sword to use against bandits and sell him another sword to use against calvary.
You mean the Zanbato?
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx No, I meant the Lancereaver. I only mentioned cavs because the only other lance wielder I could think of were armors, and Anna sells you a THIRD sword for that and it has nothing to do with the triangle she made up.
Just like Kaga intended.
That last part had me dying 😂
Obviously the flat part of the axe can be used as a shield against lance stabs
Nope
@@Lulink013 have you seen the size of fire emblem axes? Those things can definitely be used like shields
Next thing you'll tell me is that standing in a bush doesn't make you untouchable
"the weapon triangle is a lie just like the food pyramid"
But axes break lances! That’s we were always told!
The next thing you'll tell me is that the doubling effect of brave weapons is a placebo
i love the skits so far!!! keep up the good work!
These poor dudes got transported into the real world and didn't even realize
Commander in complete shambles
My theory is that the reason swordsmen have trouble with polearms is most likely to do with the fact that most spear users also carry a shield to deflect sword strikes with or are on horseback and thus use a proper lance to have a real reach and mobility advantage, while most axe users are lightly armored or don't even bother with armor, making them highly susceptible to the nimbler hewing weapon
meanwhile said axe bros have the advantage over the shield wielding lancer because axes hit way harder and can hook both the shield and the spear, while being less affected by the comparatively slim surface area of weapon coming back at them due to their outrageous physique
so clearly we can conclude that the Great Knight is the ultimate warrior, combining every advantage of everything available outside of maybe long-range attack capability a la the archery bros
also, rip magic, it was fun while it lasted
Tbf, if we're going on a realistic side of things, Lances beats everyone, bows are Echoes bows + hitrate, Cavalry should mow down almost any foot class if not soldier, and most axes should be sent to the bench for they're way too large.
So Horse Emblem best Emblem, fite me with that myrmidon -3 strengh m8
Not necessarily. In a real world duel a foot soldier with a sword/knife & shield beats a foot soldier with a lance because once he gets into range the lancer is 100% dead. Of course this is why in the real world you give your soldier multiple weapons 😅. A knife/sword is an obligatory weapon EVEN TODAY. The main utility of a foot soldier lancer is as an anti-cavalry shock troop. This forces the enemy to run armored warhorses, which will operate more like a tank, and will just try to trample their way in and crush the lancers. In my opinion the light armored horses we see in pre-promote cavalry units in FE would have a very hard time being useful with a lance. They would do much better as horse archers, which would actually counter the armored warhorses which can no longer keep up. I have to agree that axes really have no place on a battlefield at all. If you needed a blade on the back side for some reason you're just far better off with a polearm, glaive, swordstaff, or idk like literally 2 swords in 1 hand LOL
Axes are perhaps the counter to lances for the wider blade that may be capable of blocking the lancetip, the gap between the axe head and long handle that might be used to snag the lance pole, or even for a possible capability to just chop the lancepole in half. It also may be a reference to a close-range axe wielder being able to dash past the lance's effective range, since a long pointy stick is only good if your enemy is beyond the point and thus can be stabbed with the point. If your enemy has moved too close for you to stab them with the point, you just have a stick at an awkward angle.
Axes are good for chopping wooden poles so it would easily break a lance that has a wood pole but idk about ones with a steel rod
The supposed reason why axes are supposed to beat lances is that the axe users are supposed to be bulky enough to close the gap on the lance users even after taking a hit. Which sounds like an absolutely terrible idea to try and execute not gonna lie.
That.. sounds more like it's about the actual soldier then their weapon. Is this what the devs stated?
Axes chop the wooden spear shafts in half. They dont need range, just swing at the spear as the enemy extends it to attach you. Then they are left holding half a spear shaft with no tip. You win.
This is all assuming anime levels of strength which may be required to perform this feat.
How many fancy colored raincoats does excelblem own?
One, Marvel just rents out their CGI team to him.
Don’t be silly, axes beat swords too.
No, seriously, axes are a pretty versatile weapon. They’re not as heavy and awkward as Fire Emblem makes them out to be.
@@aussiejo5764 Eh, a light sword is a lot more manuverable, fencing manuvers work with most kinds of swords, and that gives you ability to avoid an axe. And if you have a khopesh, you can hook the axe's handle. A longer sword, though, a claymore or something, is a lot like an axe, but with other uses as a makeshift spear. Using an axe, whether to chop wood or fight, is all about momentum. And then you whiff a strike and your axehead goes into the dirt, dulling its edge and opening you up.
I think the funniest thing about the Axe>lance because cut lance handle in half argument, is that it implies the lance user is stupid enough to either A. guard an attack with the handle, or B. That you aren’t facing the Spear end of the lance.
The lance user would have killed the axe user long before the axe user could reach the flank of the lance, all it takes is one good, well placed lance thrust.
Holy hell this was all a setup for the one durability playthrough. Now my brain is broken since it only had one durability.
Sword can parry the axe and win through sheer mobility, but struggles against range of a lance, while axe can both pull the lance and easily break it's hilt. So the logic is there. It wouldn't work in actual large scale battle (lances would be by far the best due to their range), but in 1 v 1 it makes sense.
Trinity of magic on the other hand is kinda sus. Fire beats wind, wind beats thunder, thunder beats fire when realistically it should work in reverse. Then there's dark and light which work differently in every game they're in.
This reminds me of a story arc in a book I read. People from two different cultures both had an actual rock-paper-scissors game but with gestures representing elements... and a rather severe misunderstanding ensued when both sides thought they won the game because their cultures played the elemental matchups in opposite directions.
Something like "fire scorches earth, earth displaces water, water douses fire" versus "fire vaporizes water, water erodes earth, earth smothers fire".
TH-cam Medieval weapon nerd Skallagrim did a video on the weapon triangle. He does support the axe>lance idea
As Dwarf Fortress teach us, silver is a good material for bludgeoning weapons because of its high density, and nothing else.
*Gold*
@@xenocross6597 Even better: Platinum. Or lead, which has the nice extra of being poisonous.
I always imagine someone using an axe as a shield against lances.
They also found that genocide cannot be justified in the name of "stopping the emperor because he is possessed by an evil dragon". Dragons aren't real either
Well that one tends to depend on who wins in the end
Hardin's theme in the background makes the video whole
Next you will tell me that any person is actually able to ride a horse and slice/stab people up with their weapon of choice. Myrmidons in horses, like that could actually happen.
I mean, the Nomad Trooper and Ranger exist
That's why the Agarthans upped their game and started making weapons out of dragon bones. Always one step ahead
"The weapon triangle is a lie, just like the food pyramid." Lol based.
Next your going to tell me armor knights are actually as fast as infantry?
They just aren´t as fast as the horse
Actually, yes.
Plate is much lighter than most people think, and video games have tried to suggest. The main issue isn't weight, it's actually venting, because most of your heat is trapped in by the armor.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I was being facetious, but thanks anyway.
Amazing
Reinhardt would beg to differ regarding that last statement.
Reinhardt isn't even canon.
Good thing the scholars haven't discovered fatigue yet.
Unless they are Thracian or Valentian.
They probably aren't, but Valentians have the closest accuracy to real life bows, they just need better accuracy and even more range.
Axes beating lances actually does make some amount of sense because axes can do something swords can't: they can 'hook' the lance. Most axe blades extend down far enough to the point where you're able to trap something in between the blade and the handle. If you're able to successfully pull it of, you can simply push the lance out of the way and close the distance that way. This doesn't really work on swords because not only are they significantly faster and more mobile than lances, they also just have less handle to actually hook (hooking the blade isn't nearly as effective).
There’s a video from either Shadiversity or Skallagrim, I forget which one, but the video goes into how the weapon triangle kinda makes sense, but axes beating lances was the weakest part.
I always thought that axes damaged the lances. That’s how it worked for me
Wait... the food pyramid was a lie all along?
yes
And its replacement, the MyPlate, is ALSO wrong, because people don't actually need dairy most of the time
It's just there because the dairy lobby demands it
The easiest way to fix the pyramid is to merge meat and dairy, swap vegetables and grain, put fruit in grain, separate oil from junk food, and bury junk food out in an unmarked grave for it is not fit to accompany the pharaoh that is your body into the afterlife, and should be used to lure graverobbers.
I don't know what shape I just made, but let's call it a Food Eye of Horus, to keep the theming.
The Food Metatron Cube might also work, if you have hangups about allowing cultures that don't acknowledge YHWH as part of your diet.
Sword implies skill, axe represent strength and lance is the balance of the 2. So its not actually about the weapon but what it represent, as in rock paper scissor.
Skill beat strength, and strength beat jack of all trade while jack of all trade results in beating 1 specific skill.
What do you mean my thoughts and prayers don't actually heal people
It also turns out that saying something cool before attacking doesn't make the attack three times stronger
fire emblem in 2030. All lances have 1-2 range. Bows have 5-50 range, but can't shoot through walls. Swords can parry other swords. All buildings/terrain are destructible, but axes do effective damage against forest tiles.
So FE6 was right and every unit should be a mounted lance fighter
A mounted lance or Bow user, that dismounts into a sword user for indoor maps.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Thracia!
Where can I get a sick mask like that?
"Magic isn't real" You wanna say that again in front of my flamethrower?
That depends.
Is this a video game or real life
Axes are heavy and can easily break/knock away long thin weapons.
Waraxes are small and Light, heavy axes are not practical on a battlefield.
i always though swords > axes cause theyre faster axes > lances cause they break the handlr lances > swords cause theyre longer
"Oh and it is discovered that dragonstones are just dolhrian propaganda"
Honestly fire emblem should dive way deeper into like the real sciences of weapons and make it way more realistic that would be sick
"Got it. The next Fire Emblem game is actually just Total War, but all your generals are dateable." - FE Devs
technically, axes are some of the best weapons other than lances to use in combat. does heavy damage against armor, can come real close, even closer than sword range and can mess with lance users movement if they hook on to the pole
"Can come real close" what does that have to do with the axe itself?
Magic.. isn't real? My whole life is a lie.
I guess I kinda figured that you can block a sword swing with a lance just fine but an axe has a lot more heft which would be harder to block. Realistically lance should have advantage against both swords and axes because of the extra range of the weapon but it’s video game logic and balance you’re dealing with. Some tactics rpgs even give lances 2 range and bows like 6 or more range which is honestly fair.
Swordsmen should beat archers because they (logically) would/should carry shields, axmen should beat swordsmen because an ax can be used to pull the shield out of the way, lancers beat axmen because they outrange them, and archers beat lancers because they have no shields to block arrows.
Idk know about any other interaction tho.
Axes beat lances because axes break lances.
Realistically speaking, one handed axes are always paired with shields, which make for a good counter to spears. The issue arises then axes with shields goes evenly against swords with shields and would beat a sword without a shield, and nothing is stopping a spear from using a shield either, albeit it puts something of a limit on the length of a spear which causes all three to even out.
Eventually though when armor becomes more commonplace the shield gets ditched in favor of two handed weapons. Axes become poleaxes or halberds, spears become pikes, and swords become the definitive sidearm they already were.
Now we need someone to make a mod that gives every lance the axereaver effect.
But then they lose to swords.
If you want, I could mod fe 6 7 or 8 to make the weapon triangle biased towards lances.
2-handed axes with just as much reach as a lot of lances and longer reach than swords: "Am I a joke to you?"
Actually, yes. A huge joke.
You have immensely long windup, that leaves you open and precariously balanced, you're still outranged by spears which can poke you while you're signaling the Dark Souls player to roll, you commit so heavily to strikes that anyone can just walk around you and poke you before you can become a threat again, and the real halberd chad has already just laughed, tipped his floppy hat, and clubbed you with the blunt end so he can be paid to fight you again, the bells on his pantaloons punctuating your embarrassment.
Even compared to a two handed sword, the fact that you have such a narrow part of your swing that is dangerous means your allies can't even rely on you.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I don't think you understand the real weight of two-handed axes. Skallagrim made a video recently where he sparred with one, and you can see just how fast they can be. Sure, its a prop, so its a bit faster than a real axe, but two handed axes don't weigh much more than two-handed swords, in some cases weighing less. They are less maneuverable because they are top heavy, but their extra reach makes up for it. Not to mention that you can still thrust with a two-handed axe. In addition, this isn't taking into account armor at all, which swords are really shitty at dealing with.
Yes.
@@maskie4189 Ok, but why would you use either of those weapons outside being a heavily armored soldier?
@@xenocross6597 to deal better with shields for example. With an axe you can more easely strike around an shield. To hit the shoulder for example. ( note, not hit the shield in order to destroy it, except you like to fight with an stucked axe in the oponents shield while he has an weapon aviable with you in an good position to strike )
So how does one explain Reaver weapons?
The logic is a spear can sort of get stuck in an axe I guess.
I always immaged swords to be effective against axes because they are more agile,
spears against swords because they are longer,
and axes against spears because the axes being heavier would break the spear if the adversary tried to parry or keep distance
Actually it's not that simple since everything depends on the situation, axes can be pretty effective on destroying shields or hooking them out of the way, spears works wonders on formations and swords are really good weapons to carry around on your daily life for self defense in ancient times.
Each weapon has it's purpose.
Technically lances with wooden poles would lose to axes in a fight where both sides would be in each other's reach, since the axe would be able to easily chop through the wooden pole. But that is only possible in that specific scenario
I think the axe is supposed to break the lance
I think their excuse was that axes are harder than lances, like if you hit a lance and an axe against eachother really hard the lance would break
My justification for the weapon triangle:
Swords > Axes; because sophisticated swordsmanship beats the crude technique of axebarians.
Lances > Swords; because longer reach, duh.
Axes > Lances; because unlike swordsmen who will be wary of approaching too close, axemen will just recklessly charge in and not even care if they get stabbed, surprising the lancers who are used to keeping their foes at a distance with sudden melee.
Problem.
Spear man pokes axe man with his spear. Spear man then disengages. And disengages. And disengages. Then axe man is tired.
You assume the axeman is a Norse berserker.
@@xenocross6597 yes, yes i am. I can't justiy that interaction in any other way. I mean, have you SEEN their crit animations?
Leonie would have been so OP in Valentia
Lmao. 😂 But yes, the lances/spears vs axes thing always annoyed me.
Bows have 50 range?!? But what about our ballisticians? How're they gonna support their families if every hotshot archer is putting them out of a job!?!
Ballistae have 100+ range
Ballistae obliterate anyone they hit due to the size of the bolt
The research also proved that deploying scantily clad women whom dance and sing does not improve combat effectiveness nor does it boost morale.
Axes actually are pretty good against lances due to the fact that, assuming you can dodge a good hit, axes are pretty good at breaking spear shafts. Like the idea was 100% came up with for game balance but it does have a little bit of sense
yeah a case of " range is still an issue, but axes are good once you get in close
Lances aren't better than axes, even in combat sparring between two people in padded armor there was a reason why up close weapons were still used, yes you have a range advantage but the follow up, and the strikes coming next; with an axe let alone a two handed axe you're able to strike the opponent, and have another follow up strike on your opponent. Range has it's purpose but in a time, and place.
On less of an even playing ground said weapon would play out better.
Spear supremacy. Swords just get good PR because of classism