@@IKIGAIofficial have you ever played Pally? Because they certainly do not have unlimited heals and they give up A LOT of damage if they use their magic potency buff on healing.
@@mobius4247 Req doesn't even buff Clemency anymore. It does make it instant, but it's the same potency as normal. So in a way they're even more punished than they used to be.
4:19 "...simply begging for something to go wrong." This is literally me. The more people I see viewing cutscenes the more excited I get, especially in the harder alliance raids. I've grown to just love chaos. Collect those vulns dps, give me something to live for again. Teared up at the Noct AST bit. Finally someone is saying it. What was the reason?? The changes you stated at the end would be amazing!
Last time I got a tank that viewed cutscene he timed his clemency before excog triggers and stayed away from my now 10yalm sacred soil. And the one before that was a WAR. Guess why healers get insta ques instead of tanks now.
@@TH3_DR3W Except you always went Diurnal no matter who your other healer was (unless it was another AST, then one of you poor bastards had to go Noct). The only thing Nocturnal Sect was good for was cheese strats like uptime dogs in E10S.
I feel the engagement level of healer is really high at the start of a new encounter when nobody has any idea what they're doing, you're vomiting spotheals left and right and trying to get another hardraise in there because the samurai died for the fourth consecutive time. Then the requirement of taking care of the party is greatly lowered once the party is adjusted to the mechanics and begins to perform at a much more consistent level, so you just become a glarebot at the end of the day. Basically the better the party gets the less you have to do
Yes this exactly. Here's hoping to bad parties to shine as healer. Also sometimes I'm like, why can't I dps so much as im used to in this dungeon. O wait sprout party. Ok lemme get you guys through this.
Ironically, making lilies dps neutral actually made WHM bump up in playability significantly because it does the unthinkable and *checks notes* directly rewards the WHM for using its core class mechanic.
@@amp448 Consider WHM and SGE lucky their resource is not tied to damage. SCH's Energy Drain is a measly 100 potency, and yet, using your AF stacks to heal (When you have fairy abilities available and Recitation), feels like you're punished with DPS loss for using your core SCH system.
Having mained SCH when I started the game in Stormblood, I fell in love with the job. A healer with 3 (4 if you count Shadowflare) DoTs was an archetype I enjoyed both in thematic and playstyle, sort of like a plague doctor. Logging on ShB patch day to see 1/3 of my hotbars grayed out to learn that the job (and every other healer) had been reduced to a one-button wonder almost killed my desire to play the game as a whole. I ended up shifting to DPS and carried on with a mountain of salt but I'll never forget what Yoshi-P took from me.
Should've been here around 3.55 pre-SB where they removed all of cross class skills like Aero, Blizzard II, etc. A lot of players were (and still are) complaining years before ShB.
1:54 was so slick king, i noticed it all on my own, i didn't even need u to point it out to me. our resident mr. chair gets more witty with his editing every single day
As a healer main, the reason you brought up is exactly why I enjoy doing allience raid, every group is different, and sometimes everything will go south, and that's when I fell the most alive
Running Orbonne, 50-75% of the time it’s a shitshow. HOWEVER, it does feel great you being the Alliance back from the being or even prevent a wipe WITHOUT using an LB3. The phase change for Ultima. But it’s a reason I enjoy Orbonne over Towers. In Orbonne, 3 bosses have “heal check” mechanics (Mustadio’s Analysis, TG Cid’s Cleansing Strike, and Ultima’s phase change). Agrias instead has multiple AoEs that she regularly casts. Towers is pretty dull in comparison.
It's 2024. 7.0 removed dots because they're too much of a hassle to keep up. All heal buttons get condensed into one st and one aoe that heal, regen and shield at once. The latest healer job, a massive, giant hammer wielding scholar with really sick animations that, from promotional footage, seem to be dps focused, has no damaging abilities at all. The animations do look cool tho.
Dont forget, reworked dragoon no longer jumps at all, monk loses its last 2 positionals, and the only ability all 4 tanks have outside their 1-2-3 is rampart Hell, positionals are just removed from the game entirely
i still enjoy healing a lot, idk why but seeing hp bars get healed and throwing buffs around triggers the "yay im helping" part of the brain in ways no tanking or dpsing does.
@@penultimania4295 I disagree. If people are still capable of wiping WITH healers, it means that, normally, they're necessary. If your argument is that things can be run without them, then parties are not necessary either, because you can technically solo raids with warrior, etc. "Challenge runs" where people take the classes to its extremes are not the standard and therefore don't reflect the state of the game. Idk why you feel the need to bring others down, the reality of the game is that healers are needed :) Could they use a rework to make their DPS rotation better? Absolutely! But that doesn't make them not needed.
I can't express enough how discouraging it is to play as a healer, feel like my role is important, accidentally die, and then watch the tank take out the boss on their own. It's so invalidating. It's like, "Awe, you thought we actually needed you? That's cute." 😳🥺😭
I remember during the ShB media tour, everyone brought up “hey, healers’ DPS kits have been fucking obliterated and seem really boring. Why’d you do that?” And the answer we were given was essentially “don’t worry, we’re gonna really increase the outgoing damage in all content. You’ll need all those extra heals.” Then all they did was make raidwides in leveling dungeons and normal raids hit 10% harder.
And that’s only for newer content, not the existing 80% of content that players still regularly do in roulettes. It also doesn’t account for average item levels increasing over time and solo combat still being way too simple.
The other answer, or rather players speculated (since getting answers for anything related to healers from Yoshi P has been nearly impossible) that the pruning of the kits was so that they could streamline healer kits and build the foundation for new interesting skills in the future. Come Endwalker each healer got a single target "mitigation" tool which none of them really needed and...another heal with an exceptionally long CD. Or in SCH's case Expedient which is alright and quickly got nerfed.
@@eolendes6432 Didn't they also kick out their healer in their dungeon testing team for being too good because he started to do normal raids and extreme trials? Which kind of tells us what demographic healers are designed for.
One idea, having some kind of combo in the dps rotation that, instead of being more damage, provides the healer with some other kind of buff. E.g. a single-spell cast speed increase for the next spell, or something that interacted with your healing in a minor way to make it more potent, to encourage you to dps to improve your healing. And if they're concerned about button bloat, then maybe compress some of the situational abilities down. Heck do we still NEED physick or benefic or cure I? Or multiple different OGCD skills with long cooldowns that do basically the same thing?
They have done this before and a bunch of dps player would play healer and never heal. Dps player not liking plying healer? Then FFXIV is doing healers the right way.
Make Res spells instant, but have them give the caster a 60s debuff that makes your rezzes take 7 seconds to cast. Bam. You may now safely remove Swiftcast from healers. Functionally everything is identical.
@@SableBez they do that literally right now, though, and they'll do that even when they inevitably make glare auto-cast dia every time, because healers being brainless means people without brains are going to play them
Since he mainly focused on Scholar, what about rolling the idea of making them a DoT class again in with the healing? Maybe make SCH dots pulse a very minor amount of healing when they tick, and Fester could remove the DoT(s) for a decent aoe heal based on remaining time? That way you're encouraging DoT upkeep while still making it part of the healing role, and they don't need to outdamage other healer types to make the DoTs worth using?
As a SCH/SGE main, I find normal content to be extremely boring, but in high-end content, I find that babysitting the party IS the extra complexity. I might only use one or two heals in normal content, but in high end, I'll cycle through most of my heals, and I'll usually make at least rough timelines to ensure appropriate heals are up at appropriate times. But when the party takes avoidable damage or doesn't mitigate (which is a LOT of pf parties), I not only need to immediately notice, but I need to make fast decisions on how many extra heals we need, what I can do while saving what heals I know will be required for future mechanics, AND also keeping up my dot and dps. With that said, I'd really like at least one of my SCH dots back, I miss them D:
I feel the exact opposite. People in normal content might not be good with mechanics and their own class so a lot of mistakes can happen. Whenever I'm running high-end content though people know the mechanics, they've learned their own class long ago, high-end is just a dance that if someone fucks up everyone is punished or straight up wiped. The only exception seems to be TEA, and that's just wishful thinking, thought the same about uwu and ucob before. Even when parties take avoidable damage, in most fights the next damage don't happen for a while, resulting in you having way too much time to heal.
@@serahill Eh, I guess I’ve gotten lucky enough to run a lot of content recently with total newbies who don’t know what they’re doing even at endgame, so I have to work hard to keep ppl alive through their accumulated mistakes. I have a soft spot for newbies so I don’t mind babying these people & holding their hands through content. My logs look like trash but I don’t care bc I’m not trying to be competitive, just to have fun & clear content
@@Leroset It's funny that you replied today, my FC is organizing Rookie runs on current savage tier. We're gonna help people get into high-end content and get them over that first time anxiety. Might be a bit more fun that running the same fights with loggers.
For some reason I expected sage to have one because their whole thing is the pew pew healer that heals from dpsing. I never looked at any of the overviews of the job before I picked it up and got disappointed.
Imagine just something simple like if they attack 4 times they get access to a special stronger attack, 4 of those and bam, finisher, its the simplest combo in the world but it'd be a mile more engaging!
Well the whole system is a bit off ... while the upper 5% want all classes but the Whm to be fking ubercomplicated to make it less playable for the other 95% while flexing and memeing on them. Most bored out people just hate the Idea that a game like ff14 is a MMORPG with a social focus rather than having a bs complicated system so that having a 2 class comm would thrive even more. Most raiders I know do not enjoy raiding because of it being a challenge ... most raid for being a narcisstic bumhole and make it visible to everyone.
@@PiconPrimeKnight Who the fuck are these raiders you're talking about. I have never met someone like that and almost exclusively spend my time in this game raiding.
one thing i don't see enough people talking about when discussing pvp is that small step in the direction opposite from the all too common homogenization. Apparently it's actually fun when the classes have different strengths and weaknesses, and you actually have to keep in mind what their limit breaks do, who woulda thought
It also has more balance concerns than anything we've seen PvE related in recent years. Who would have thought developing both unique and balanced jobs is hard.
@@Verd254 thx. Now i am convinced of the depressing thought that all the dumbing down was done to give the dev team an easier job with balancing. Then following it by saying it was meant for the mentaly challenged.
... until you get to the point where WHM is ridiculously overtuned and you see 2 of them in every CC match this is why we have job homogenization which - surprise, surprise - is actually a good thing
@@TheCrimsonFacker always has been. It's a scale where you have perfect balance with 0 variance on one side and turbulent cycles of op/up on the other, where classes can be 100% required in content or so suboptimal you'll need to suck a hundred dicks to get in. The former is already balanced by default, the latter is impossible to balance. The truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle
They actually changed the quest to exclude that you heal by rewinding time. Idr what they did now. But they don't mention time magic anymore just divinity.
@@AZodiacCancer The villain of the expansion uses it, and the dialogue afterwards talks about you learning time magic. Also Gravity is still around, which is time magic traditionally.
It’s hard to take his endgame takes that are even close to decent seriously especially when he talks about raiding. Especially with his “villain arc” tone for things sounding more authoritative than he really is with his limited raid experience.
You cannot throw out the grenade that is this rotation 2:40 and walk away like nothing happened. It is beautiful and only gets better the more you look at it
would you like to meet our God and saviour Dragon Kick rotation? You spam dragon kick until you need to reapply twin snakes/demolish/bootshine, then spam it some more. Weave in your buffs and chakra on cd (ideally getting two demolishes within RoF but at this point who cares lmao). This is about a 100 dps loss as compared to optimal drift monk rotation.
I was so excited when Sage was announced because in my mind I thought it would be a hyper-complex healer with single-target and AoE heals directly proportionate to dealing damage, that when played correctly could dump massive damage naturally. Sage is still my favorite healer now if only because sometimes getting to use a charge of Phlegma in between my single damage button spam gives me the happy chemical.
God I want a healer equivalent of gunbreaker in terms of play style so damn bad. Like you just do a combo/rotation well enough and you get rewarded with a strong heal or something. That would be so sick.
Im a new player, just finished ARR propper. I really enjoy scholar as an idea, but playing the job in MSQ is indeed ridiculously boring. One damage button and 10 variants of healing. I finished all extreme trials while just mashing 1, its kinda sad :/
Scholar has the benefit of being able to play Summoner in MSQ and playing Scholar in duty's. Though now that Summoner is also brain dead it isn't as helpful.
@@Irimu_ everyone keeps saying it's braindead but for me who gets easily overwhelmed by giant complex rotations Summoner was the perfect job for me leveling through msq these past months.
It is most certainly not brain dead. Easier than other dps, yes. But people saying it’s brain dead don’t play at 90 or don’t play hard content or if they do they probably parse like garbage.
@@Awsomeness103 I feel bad for old Summoners but I don't have anything against simple jobs. I just hope we get to keep some of the complexity in the game.
I really wished the next healer would be based on a ranged physical dps instead of a ranged magical dps like every other healer, having a more complicated dps rotation but removing cast time to compensate, so people don't complain about their dps
"giving a little more to manage is not going to make them worse when they can already be close to rock bottom" is legendary and literally just true. villain arc of the century.
As a AST main, I'm kind of grateful for my "1" button rotation. In practice though it's far from a 1 button DPS rotation. Have to manage cards, divination raid buff, star, your 3 seals and macrocosmos. Then you have a million oGCDs heals to juggle. Early game is kind of lame because you rely heavily on GCD healing but as you get to the end game, it's all about figuring out how to NOT cast GCDs and rely off oGCDs. I've healed in a few other games like WoW (on monk and shaman), Aion (cleric), Lineage 2 (Bish) and SWTOR (Agent). They each have their charms but I've never felt so busy as I have on FFXIV's AST. It gets into some pretty 5head territory; especially with the game's emphasis on healer DPS.
I´m actually doing my transission from WHM to AST at the moment, because I heard, that you have alot more to do with that class. WHM was my first class I played until the fnale of Endwalker and damn even though the new dungeons and raids were some new nervwrecking stuff, at the end of the day it was very boring to play. So I hope AST can reignite the healing flame for me, otherwise I might just change to BRD or RDM.
@@Demagogines Yeah man go for it! That's the strongest part of FFXIV; freely switching classes :) Now if only they'd do something about the end game gearing system for people who play multiple classes regularly T_T
@@Demagogines I had the opposite experience. My first healer was AST and I've pretty much mastered it. At the end of the day I was very bored of it because I didn't feel like my buffs did anything. All they did was offset your basic low damage marginally with buffs but with 5x the weaving complexity. I've recently made a new WHM character and recently hit 90 and it is hands down my favorite healer by far. All the instantaneous damage you could ask for, a healing kit that once you get afflatus misery and afflatus rapture makes incredibly good. WHM sucks to 50, is mediocre until Rapture and Misery. Then it feels like an absolute powerhouse of rapid heals. Plenary indulgence finally works due to having afflatus rapture, and it makes casting Afflatus Misery so much more worth it. Ultimately with AST I never felt like my buffs were worth a damn, just a very curated "under ideal optimal conditions with perfect card play your overall damage/output with buffs is...still less than every other healer." Sure, I have "more to do," but frankly they don't matter. It's more work for less effectiveness. It's busywork without the reward. WHM as it is actually feels punchy and nothing can replace holy and assize spam. SGE's SFX are lame, though I have yet to play scholar. Unfortunately getting magical Jordans for your capstone level 90 ability is very disappointing if you ask me, even if it's tactically incredible.
@@whythefuckdowehavethisherenow WHM felt really good to me in 6.1 after the buffs. If I want to heal a duty that's probably the healer I would go with right now. It's also the only healer that was improved in 5.0, although this probably isn't saying much since it was the worst designed job in the game at the time. It's still a shame about Aero 3 though, of all the healers WHM certainly has the design space to handle a 2nd dot... AST has too many buttons and feels like busywork like you said, and the cards are all the same now and it ruins the job fantasy for me, but I might give it another chance if the 6.2 changes are good. Although I would say it's more fun than WHM when you're stuck in a dungeon with a WAR that just doesn't need any healing since shuffling cards is still more fun than just standing there and spamming one button. SCH is a dead job to me, I just don't like it anymore after 5.0. Unless they bring back the unique fairies and the plaguedoctor playstyle I could throw away the job stone and I wouldn't notice it. SGE is... fine I guess?
FFXIV healing is just the logical conclusion of how raids are designed in modern MMOs. When MMOs were a test of resources vs boss mechanics, healers mattered, they kept your raid alive, rotating healers to regenerate mana was something you had to do, using consumables to keep your mana topped up, ect. Modern MMOs try to fake difficulty by replacing resource management with groundfire one shot dodging, meaning that you're simply waiting for the tanks or random raid damage to lower their health to 50% so you can cast a heal, while applying your DPS with a basic low effort rotation because having to focus on DPS AND heal bars means that you're making a role that is more complicated. Its why I am in the firm position that every class in MMOs should have multiple roles. Your main role (The trinity) and an off role (CC, Kiting, offtank, lockdown, ect) you know, all those old roles that were replaced by infinite AOE threat that made every encounter a braindead groundfire dodging, when what we really need is more player engagement with the boss that isn't just playing a more and more complicated DDR song that is your rotation.
Old MMOs were braindead. They had no mechanics you had to think about nearly as much as Savages or Ultimates. They were just long slogs where your healers spammed their abilities and everyone just debuffed all bosses enough to ignore their damage. Everybody could just stand still and spam the same abilities for every fight . . . same as they do now, except you actually have to think about movement and mechanics going on. Everquest wishes it actually had any challenge content. The only challenge there is getting people together for it. Or FF XI where they just released stupidly over-statted bosses like AV to make artificial difficulty.
I love the ideas presented at the end especially for the SCH changes; I want that version of SCH in the game. I haven't played FFXIV since Shadowbringers so I was confused and disappointed when I learned in this video that Nocturnal Sect was removed... Healer boredom is definitely something I'm familiar with. I think the last time I had fun playing Green DPS was playing SCH in Diamond EX since there was just enough group damage going out at a consistent rate to actually force occasional decision-making.
ngl, AST has so many ogcd heals that i just forget to use them(celestial intersection, celestial opposition, crown play & exaltation), but also half of them are designed for you to cast and forget them(earthly star, horoscope, macrocosmos, exaltation again). its...weird. not bad, but weird. i wouldnt mind even simple combos after malefic that could maybe eat my cards that dont have the astrosign i need at the time(the option to throw them away is still absurd). i also miss nocturnal sect. the versatility to be a shield healer when we already had regen was just...nice
We had high skill ceilings for tanks and healers back in the day, but people whined and complained because playing a tank or healer was like playing a damage dealer with extra responsibilities. And who the fuck wants to be responsible for their own output AND the output of others?
I think the solution was to have more outgoing damage, so healers have to focus on actually healing rather than just expecting them to be DPS classes during the downtime. WoW does a much better job in that area in my opinion because there's tons of outgoing damage constantly, and you have to be healing every second.
@@KyokujiFGC WoW also has more diverse healer playstyles though and most healers have more dps abilities and often stronger synergies with them in their healing toolkit compared to FF14. Like, Discipline Priest is ideally just doing full on healing through dps for most of the time, Monk has Fist Weaving and Paladin has the melee playstyle where you reduce holy shock cd and generate healing ressources through dpsing.
Honestly the most fun I have as a healer is when playing with a tank who either does wall to wall pulls or doesn't know what he's doing. I play WHM and in those moments it actually becomes a fun class you have to think about. In that sense, I wouldn't mind if dungeon design was a little bit meaner with its mobs. I've said this before about bosses - basically every attack that a boss throws out is either a party-wide blast meant to be countered with AOE healing, or it's a dodgeable attack that'll kill you. Honestly though? I'm not sure the boss design thing bothers me THAT much. Like, let's be real: the interesting part about ff14's bosses is doing the different mechanics. Sure, you might be doing your rotation, but at the end of the day that becomes pretty rote. Hell, the worst part of learning a new class is when you DON'T have the rotation burned into your brain. Maybe you get excited when you get to slam your proc'd OGCD button. Mostly the boss fights live and die by the boss AOE's. One button, 8 buttons, rotation size doesn't really matter to me.
i hated getting tanks who had 0 clue what to do in dungeons while levelling healer. You'd get some French Warrior who doesnt even know what bloodwhetting or equilibrium is, in the lv 85 dungeon. I'll let them die and leave the instance, before i have to spam all my cooldowns and not DPS at all because they want to put in 0 effort.
Weirdly enough I find managing my dots a lot harder on healers than any other job I‘ve played so far. The Paladin dots can be ignored entirely if I stay on top of my rotation but pressing the same gcd for 15 times and know that you have to reaply a dot is a lot harder for me for some reason.
that's because DPS and tank DoTs come up naturally in your rotation. Healers have no rotation. They just spam 1 button and then have to stop spamming it to reapply the DoT
@@harryn7518 This comment is a bit old by now, but in my experience any time I see someone question why things are the way they are in XIV they get shouted at to go play another game if they don't like it. Balance issues are one thing, but questioning design choices is another.
Being a healer overall is boring. I'd much prefer if those classes could affect the battlefield or enemies. Debuffs are a huge thing that modern MMOs forgot about. You don't deal damage, but you can debuff the crap outta enemies to make them much easier to handle, lower their damage, make them miss, CC them, debuff their damage resistance, all things that should be everywhere in healer kits, not just on maybe two skills of two classes.
IMAGINE HOW COOL IT COULD BE TO GIVE THE ENEMY A CHANCE TO RANDOMLY MISS! Imagine how hype it would be during a super high end raid that your random debuff makes a raid wide just miss, it'd be so incredibly cool! (if slightly broken, but woe is me, a move that can influence a fight)
I really like this idea. Puts me in mind of Radiation defenders from CoH. Probably couldn't do anything that extreme in FF14, but you could totally have like a reverse Astrologian, who focused on Vuln Up and Damage Down on enemies during their non-healing time.
Healer roles will always suffer from dichotomy of design: They can't feature complex rotations because they need to be able to react to circumstances (you can't design them with perfect players in mind) but to make them interesting relies on people actively making mistakes. You end up in a situation where you can have lots of "fun" (or busybodying) in low skill scenarios (Alliance Raids, PFs, farm parties), feel borderline useless and kinda boring in mid-high skill scenarios (Prog raiding with a skilled group, reclears, log runs) where you're just mashing your DPS button until the encounter design requests that you stop doing so, and (I imagine this is what Yoshi-P meant with "play Ultimates if you want Healer to be challenging") only trully "engaging" in those encounter designs where it is REQUIRED for you to heal a party to keep it alive. I think just like you consider having to press many distinct buttons (and therefore dislike XIVCombos) "fun", I personally don't find it all that interesting, therefore I don't think Healers are "Not Fun" nor they lack complexity. Personally, I find the resource management, reaction/prediction based gameplay, and accurate targeting to be the enjoyable and mostly unique aspect of the Healer Role, and that if you want more rotation complexity (but still be a "support" role), go play Red Mage or Summoner (now if only Squeenix would give us support heals that actually healed anything more than a pittance) Note that this doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to changes to the healer role to be more specialized, but I do question how would you make this fit into the design of FFXIV. I think it could be made to work if GCD heals don't break DPS combos, and Healers not have a "2 minute clockwork rotation", as to not be afraid of drifting.
Those are in reality non problems in the current game thanks to charges and gauges coupled with how strong oGCD heal options are. My 2 cents here as someone with experience in healers up to ultimate would be: -Whm: Add a 60s offensive lily action, would help build misery without overheal and woudn't get in the way of the healing as at best it would consume 1/3th of the lilies of a encounter, make thin air nourish the bood lily when used on a gcd heal and make every gcd build stacks/gauge to use on a stronger gcd attack (think a gcd shinten). If they make so healing gcds build more energy than dps gcds then whm could have gauge management that doesn't get in the way of healing (as you could bank uses in the form of excess of gauge), could reduce the glare spam in over 40% without drastically changing the identity of the job nor its playstyle -Sch: GIB DOTS, for real dots are really noob friendly as delaying them is not that big of a loss vs a normal gcd not used and a job with high % of dot damage loses less when forced to switch a nuke for a gcd heal, change aetherflow so it doesnt penalize the dps when healing is used and instead reward the player for using this gauge. They could also add cds related to dots with charges like old fester or shadowflare. -Sge: This one is interesting, they could create a cooldown (with charges) based offensive version of eukrasia that changes dosis and dyskrasia into a reaper like combo with 2 branches (dosis->dyskrasia or dyskrasia->dosis) with different effects, think 1 with big damage and the other with a damage buff like War that also gives addersting. Then add a 60/120s combo with addersting (like gnb's continuation combo) to spice things up, add a trait so every addersting action reduces phlegma cd and phlegma uses reduce the offensive eukrasia cd. Since all of that is charged based it could be delayed at will, being gcd based allows the sge to keep the healing with its massive ogcd kit and thanks to the loop (Offensive Eukrasia gives addersting, addersting action lower the cd of phlegma, phlegma lowers the cd of Offensive Eukrasia...) the player could keep control of the speed of its rotation being able to accerlerate it when low healing is required and having a slower one when they have to heal (an extra dot in the form of eukrasia dyskrasia would be appreciated too) -Ast: For this one I think an extra dot and more card management would be fine, instead of trying hard to make every card the same I think a fixed deck with cards that are stronger and weaker would be better. Let's say Ast has 6 cards in its deck (1 of each) divided into 3 ranged and 3 melee, give them tiers from 1 to 3 being tier 1 a weak 2% increase and tier 3 a 8-9%, with that every time Ast draws, the cards remaining in the deck would be reduced by 1, changing the % of getting a stronger one in the next draw, as such actions like redraw would be more impactful and new actions like discarding a card to draw other (reducing the number of cards in the deck) or discarding a bad card to improve the effect of the next card used could be implemented changing the ast mentality from "get seals and gib card" to micromanage its options to guarantee the maximum number of strong cards while getting the most out of their weak one be in the way of discarding them or powering up the strong ones. Biggest drawback for this is that ast would need an action that opens more weaving windows which probably a cd reduction of lightspeed coupled with the dot could do. I feel all of those would be much more interesting than current healer iterations without getting in the way of healing
@@SWKJaviK Also one thing about dots is they can have different durations so that players don't just say "Oh it's dot time now have to cast TWO gcds" Lilybell should cost a lily, be a gcd, and feed the blood lily. Stylistically it just makes sense. Sage should have a cooldown that puts a "kardia" on a target ENEMY causing their damaging spells to proc extra damage for a short duration. AST 100% needs lightspeed with 2 charges unless weaving is getting less insane
No offense, but did you start playing in Shadowbringers? Every healer had more DPS buttons in the past and healing was in a better state than it is now. It's not some crazy change from how the "game is designed" and telling people who want this to return in some aspect to just play DPS jobs is insulting. Stormblood Scholar had DoTs it maintained while not stopping it from healing, and having 3 DoTs to upkeep was not super complex. It's not about "2 minute rotations!!" its about making our role more engaging in ALL levels of content. Even in TEA, an overwhelming majority of your casts will be your 1 DPS spell and 1 DoT, Ultimate doesn't offer a more engaging experience on healers and those who think it does clearly haven't done Ultimate. It's not about making healers challenging, and Yoshida's response wasn't addressing what the question was asking at all. We want healers to be engaging.
@@kidragora Nope, I started in Heavensward, and I played those healers. What I meant is the game has clearly shifted focus, you can even see it in the old content that was reworked where a lot more raidwides are casted by the bosses. I'm not saying it's impossible either, just that I personally don't think healers need dos buttons to be "fun", they are "the most fun" when things go sideways *and that is ok*. If you make Healers fun when they can DPS (because no healing is required) you'll encourage non-hesling healers, and even potential toxicity when they're "rudely interrupted" by that DPS who stood in orange juice. Or at least that is my hypothesis.
@@Meoiswa We're going to have to agree to disagree, since healers historically had a LOT more damage skills in the past and it was never an issue with people being toxic over having to actually heal instead of DPS. RIP Aero III.
FFXIV finally has popular youtubers that make a career of complaining about it constantly while still playing and loving the game, we’ve truly hit the big time.
Another banger video from gigachad king, villain of the FFXIV community, master of ALL jobs and roles misshapen chair. Keep the uploads coming bro, they genuinely get better with each video.
Gunna say it... AST is the most unique healer. The rng buffs and time based healing allows for constant management you just don't get with the other healers. It's a lot more complex to play AST because you have to keep cycling between all of your Ogcd's as well as your cards and dps tactics.
With the new healer strike trying to go on and getting attention... Honesyly this whole thing is even more needed. Like this is every single thing in yhis video is needed, needs to be talked about and how good its points are.
Preach! I've been shouting this from the rooftops for years. I miss my old Scholar with 5 DoTs and manual Embrace! Did you see the live letter recently where one of the most upvoted questions was about this very subject? Yoshi-P's response was that if you want healing to be fun go play Ultimates. Oh and their dungeon balance testing healer got too good so they had to replace him for someone worse, so dungeons will have even more lax healing requirements. YAY. Part of why I've fallen in love with the new PvP is just because they removed healing buttons and put an emphasis on support / damage. Sage is like 90% damage buttons. Thank Hydaelyn! It's simplistic but I'd love that kind of job diversity in PvE. As it stands I have to get my kicks by playing chicken with everyone's health while praying that someone fucks up so that I have an interesting problem to solve
I understand the concept of having Ultimate content be for more tryhards, but as someone who sits in the in-between, it sucks. I don't really care to dedicate months to a consistent schedule to clear savage/ultimate content with strangers. But I also feel like the normal content (outside of groups of players who are new and/or bad) is too easy for healers. It's hard though, because a group that is terrible is incredibly difficult to carry sometimes (broken underlevelled equipment, no damage mitigation, DPS not AOE-ing, standing in every mechanic). I think to make healing more interesting, they would have to have a higher level of entry period. Right now it feels like "are players competent and know the basics of their job? I spam my one attack button; did the players level skip and not even bother to learn anything about the game? my job is to try and carry them and if there is any oops, it is my fault". I'm used to a healer role being a babysitter of sorts and I really am okay carrying as long as people aren't jerks, but it feels bad that there doesn't seem to be a way to cater to helping competent players. AST has buffs, but the buffs feel so inconsequential in regular content (especially if that competent player isn't being optimal in rotation). I just want something to focus on in regular content that can elevate and make things a bit more interesting. I would have loved if Sage required being more optimal with DPS and getting healing in return for the level of optimization (or the inverse). It sort of works like that, but the numbers remain low to match the other healers. I would also love if healers did more damage, period. Beef up the numbers but tie them to doing a rotation properly. Idk. I don't negate that its a difficult quandary, some things are still needlessly tedious while others are needlessly simplified, but I'd just like them to try. More tools like Earthly Star would be lovely, if we are to DPS and heal, give us more decisions in how to do both efficiently. Again, I get the apprehension to add necessary healing to regular content, but they could make the kit more rewarding for optimal play.
Adding a couple buttons to healers won't really do anything. It would have to be changed fundamentally. Healers already have to optimize more than some DPS jobs, looking at you RPR, but it doesn't even feel good/rewarding until 3/4th turns of savage tiers or ultimates. If you don't enjoy optimizing healing for high end encounters, or don't want to do something mind-numbingly chill for daily content, then healing probably isn't for you. - if they add a couple extra buttons it doesn't change anything because it would still be very simple. We need full interactive rotations. Like healing combos that boost dps potencies and vice versa, which would also require encounters to have more light amounts of damage - if they make savage/ultimate content just spam damage constantly then you get WoW were healing is like 80-90% of an encounter and some classes don't do like any damage at all
Problem with optimizing healers, is that your reward for learning the fight and CD use is casting even more of your single target spell. Who would want to be rewarded with yet another cast of your nuke when unoptimized play is already festered with 70% casts of your nuke.
Could be interesting to have healing spells with a duality to them? Heals if targeting an ally, does some kind of damage and combo trigger if cast on an enemy? That also means there could be some interaction between the two, getting to a certain part of the combo tree, and changing target to do bonus damage or healing with an additional effect. This way you can make it as interesting as you want. Focus on healing if you need to, but you can effortlessly transition into a DPS rotation when healing isn't necessary. No button bloat, just...uh... tooltip bloat
Wow actually did that just now with the Evoker, their standart filler spell is both a heal and a dps cast. You can say what you want about the game, at least they give some fucks about designing healing classes...and tanks.
Basically the enjoyment of healing inversely correlates with how familiar your group is with encounter. But yeah, I felt the same during ShB. I mained AST during SB and played bunch during HW, and I enjoyed stance dancing even though it was janky as hell. While AST had mindblowing rotation of DoT and filler malefic back then, cards were interesting to me since I had to play them right for best effect. I tried to play a scholar during ShB, but felt it boring (this was before energy drain was added back). Even if contribution of more engaging dps rotation isn't much, it would still keep people engaged rather than zoning out during fight. I completely agree that if they were ever to embrace one-button autocombos, there would need to be option for old manual rotations - just because even that little work that goes into pressing different buttons can help stimulate player - even though the difference would be zilch.. Other option would be making secondary mechanics or rotations more focused in exchange for autocombos, but I really doubt they would ever do that.
I really hope Sage gets a DPS combo next expansion, would be cool if it impacted Kardia too. Maybe a basic 1-2-3 combo added into Dosis, with each combo making Kardia heal more. I was thinking it would be cool to have a skill that shoots out a small AOE heal from the tank/whoever has Kardia on, could incorporate that into a DPS skill as well.
I was hoping Sage would get a real combo and be a healer you really had to think about to optimize. Stronger than other healers but harder and requiring more thought to compensate. Instead we got SHB Scholar Remixed and there was nothing interesting going on. I miss 4.X healers
Healer since 3.0 and I miss Faust. The door mob in A1s. Halfway through, the healing intensity needed was so great that you couldn’t keep up without non stop double gcd heals. The enrage was just healers dropping the tank because it was actually that impossible. I want THAT! I want a “healing rotation” for high intensity burst damage happening in a fight, like E12s enrage, but imagine that just being a normal raid aoe. Or more zombie adds like the dragon heads in shinryu where you heal them to kill them. That is what i want. HPS big boy numbers and it to matter. I only feel alive in dungeons now when they have huge wall to walls I can test myself with. Fk a dps rotation! If i want complex damage rotations I can go play summoner. I want complex healing rotations…guess what…it already exists, but nobody knows the optimal healing rotation because nowhere ever do you need to optimize your hps. LET ME HEAL its like its the job I signed up for or something.
This is exactly it. I hate how everything in this game is diluted to DPS. I remember back when I first started and going through Coils, there was the AOS Sphere that would spam AOE damage and you’d have to chain cast Medica just to keep everyone alive. Fun stuff like that should be more common for healer-based mechanics.
Hot take: I was a healer main in SWTOR and Secret World (Old, not legends). And honestly, I hate healin in FF14. Here you have to calculate how much HP your party can safely have without causeing a wipe, because of no sustained dmg. If I want to dps, then maybe I would play a DPS job. If I play a healer, I dunno I want to HEAL! In SWTOR I liked healing, because it was different in the aspect then most of the fight I look at party members keeping them afloat, it is different, maybe when they are good I dish out 1-2 attack and back to healing (Had to space it out otherwise the game punishes you) Here I look at it, they are full. I blink twice don't look at it for a few milliseconds, and either the tank is at 5% hp or the whole party is. 3 OGCD later everything is ok back to spamming 1. I'm a tank main in ff14 and I can't blame when the healers are asleep during encounters. Healing aspect is actually most engaging in dungeons, and especially Tower of Zot and Holmsterswitch because mobs are kinda overtuned. That is why it is bizarre for me how players defend this "healer is a green dps". It shouldn't be. I'd rather keep myself engaged with targetting party members and dodging aoe's through out the encounter than spamming 1 through out the encounter. In the other MMO's even if the others play perfectly you are still busy, most of the time. Here if everybody plays perfectly you rarely heal. There is a reason why there is no dedicated HoT healer in this game (I play AST and that as close as you can get to that.) You would keep those up on the tank, and your CO healer becomes unnecessary, if it's a shield healer, shit your entire party would be always max health.
They could add an action to convert your current healing spells in damage spells and viceversa (like cleric stance but changing the effects of the spells themselves). That way you could use your entire kit just to DPS and if you need more healing spells because of a mistake or whatever you can convert them.
If there's one thing I wish it would be that healers buff allies like maybe a damage reduction skill that reflects damage for the tank and after healing half of someone's health maybe a damage boost instead of healers attacking as much something that makes healers as buffers ya know a thing supports should do.
I really wish healers had healing rotations that fed into bigger dps abilities. But boss design just doesn't support this at all, so it will remain my pipe dream.
Tbh, the only healer that has a healing rotation....somewhat is Scholar. The rest legit has one button to chonk heal at any given moment. I know Lustrate exists, but thats Aetherflow stacks being used and having to manage between cooldowns unless you gotta disapate...for some reason.
@@StealthMaster5k Yeah there's a TON you can do with it. I mostly come from playing Holy Paladin in recent wow expansions (lmao wow bad game). But it's a really interesting approach, hpal is a melee healer, where they have a healing button and a damage button that they basically spam. Each of those buttons give a resource that can be spent on large heals or a little damage. Best comparison was if broil gave you aetherflow, which you could then spend on heals or energy drain the same way. However WoW fight design swings way more towards constant damage you need to heal, so it almost all goes into healing. But it's that sort of mixing of the two kits and back and forth that feels really good.
White Mage and Sage already have something like that with Misery and Toxicon, they just need to give the other healers something like that, and make it a little more involved
no kidding, they literally talk about learning from wow but arguably the major thing that started the slide on wow was the massive pruning of every single remotely interesting ability, talents, any kind of choice at all, all got streamlined down to REEEEE THIS IS THE META GOTO ICYVEINS/NOXX OR GET KICKED. EVERY utility or flavor ability gone like eyes of the beast(let hunters control their pet for fun or scouting), eagle eye(let you look around at a distant point you could target), all the various warlock debuffs so it was only purely REEEEE DAMAGE! HAVING TO DEBUFF ENEMIES BASED ON WHAT RESISTANCES THEY HAVE IS TOO DIFFICULT FOR AVERAGE ANDYS! dumbed down the game massively, then at the same time some how for some reason mainly only focused on endgame.... dumbing the game down massively+focusing on hard end game stuff = bad dead game lol
I didn't understand at first, but now I know. The chair is misshapen bc of the shear density of sarcasm forming its own gravitational mass. Thx for the vid. I have no opinion on the state of healers, I just enjoy laughing.
Years later, and this video suddenly popped in my mind. It's still so painfully accurate. And now we're seeing more healers quitting on Dawntrail because they're just so tired and done.
as a SCH main, I was super happy with the changes to SMN....because it filled me with the innocent hope that they were opening the door for SCH to become the DOT class again, and give me back my bane = .=. dot management was what drew me to SCH in the first place. maybe someday....
I definitely think XIV Combo should be an option, especially for controller users. There's very little skill expression in pressing 1 -> 2 -> 3 and it just takes up so much real estate on gamepad.
Looking at it slightly differently healers being the role that has less of a dps rotation is honestly a good thing for a lot of people. I personally really enjoy having a easy to use rotation while focusing more on other factors (Party health and oGCD healing) to keep myself engaged. If someone wants a healer that presses a lot of buttons astro fits that pretty well atm as well, even if their "main damage" is still the dot and single button. The other issue that could come up with having a healer with a full rotation is the amount of buttons they have, because having the full rotation plus a full healing kit would be more than any current job. This is all assuming current boss design stays as is.
Astro is missing some quality of life adjustments, but I agree it's pretty close to reaching that threshold of DPS engagement (busyness? idk what term to use) that a lot of players are looking for. Lord/lady card split is a good step forward for example but awkward since you generally are fishing for lord. If it was reworked to instead be a second set of cards for random DPS spells that could be cool
Healing is overpowered in most content because it has to be. There are enough bad tanks in the game that don't use their mitigation, make stupid decisions like making the healer lose line of sight right before the healer finishes a heal cast, or doesn't dodge aoe because they think they can tank like they do in WoW where dodging aoe doesn't exist for them. It is tanks like these that will make you learn to appreciate the healing role for it's existence and teach you to get good at weaving heals in between each cast of Broil IV.
I feel like I could say the same thing about tanks, except instead of only hitting one button it's only hitting three buttons and then maybe hitting a few ogcd's when you hit a point during a big pull or boss fight, all the while you're just hitting mitigations when needed.
semi unrelated but also a nightmare experience with a healer lol- i'll never ever forget the nightmarish run of SoS ex with this god awful healer(can't remember her class), this actual 2 brain cell woman WIPED US FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOUR AND A HALF OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the METEORS THAT YOU SIMPLY STACK FOR AT THE BEGINNING..... FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!! i was main tanking she was of course my partnet, i was like dude DO NOT FREAKING MOVE I WILL COME TO YOU!!!! she would stand there, i'd stack, she'd run to where i was... EVERY SINGLE TIME FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS AS EVERYONE WAS TELLING HER TO STOP MOVING..... it's insane how bad some people are
I am sorry for your lost. As someone who 'mains' healing. It really isn't that hard. It's mostly, positioning, stay alive, and keep others alive. Listening to others is a skill that is very helpful in the game. And paying attention and learning from mistakes.
Glad to see another content creator point out how stupid and short-sighted the Regen/Barrier healer paradigm is. It's super aggravating that the healer role fundamentally fails at basic game design (something I pointed it out in my own healer video). When your game has a feature that rewards mastery with boredom, the concept needs to be scrapped and remade. Good video as always that is refreshingly blunt with the very coddled playerbase.
Things I'd do to fix healers In general 1. give them at least one damage rotation. Please, I don't like spamming the same button over and over again. 2.Have the lower level spells just upgrade to the better version. I'm not keeping Cure 1 on my hot bar when I get Cure 2 3. Make the classes distinct. I'll get into more detail White mage could be a healer/buffer. The buffs the give are based on elements. Fire gives an attack boost, lightning raises crits, wind speeds up movement, and earth raises defense. The party can only have one of those buffs, but you should be cycling through them frequently. Maybe make the buffs short and back to back buffs become shorter to encourage cycling. Scholars should be shields and debuffs. Give them multiple dots to maintain. The more you maintain them, the better they become. The healing fairy ( can't remember their names) helps maintain shields while the other can help maintain one dot. You could even have the dots slowly heal allies nearby. Sage should be dps heal. Every hit should heal/shield the party. The bigger hits give better heals. Death by a thousand cuts essentially. Astrologian could fill any of these rolls or all if they hate themselves. I'm not as knowledgeable for this class, so any suggestions for how that'll work would be cool. I assume the cards could do something with that.
Ya, they've drastically changed the heavy healing expected from the role in pvp... They were trying to remove role restrictions so it would be better to think of everything as dps or just role-less with slight sway in sustain, support, or healing.
@@TheTacetTroubadour yeah ik. I'm just wondering if some of that job design can spill over into pve. Ofc you need aoe healing shielding and what not but give us some more damage options and utility stuff
Unironically I hate what they did to healers in PvP. The whole "do nothing but spam heals" was actually viable in PvP, which is funny because everyone hated pvp.... but the *actual* healing fantasy was there because of how sporadic in pvp. Literally, THE THING that people wish was in healer PvE (sporadic and unpredictable damage to the party to test your reflexes and triage capability) existed in the game mode most people hated.
Oh, no joke about it. You were thankful that you only had 4 damage buttons. They made or broke feast teams and could become a God in FL keeping 24 people alive
I thought sages original concept was being able to heal while doing dmg. It wouldve been sick to have and actual dmg rotation for healing with shielding ogcds, Yet it only has like 3 dmg buttons yhe barely heal and mostly shield and mit ogcds
no kidding, the actual heals that come from scholars dmg are the most pathetic piss poor excuses for "heals" i've ever seen in a game, infinitely worse than regen, and is calculated and seems exactly like just putting a HoT on them, it's not based on damage at all it's based purely on "reee 130 potency on cast", they said it'd be like disc priest from wow and you'd heal by doing damage..... i guess TECHNICALLY that is true, a tiny piss proc procs when a heal is finished casting, but that is not coming from the damage, and obviously certainly doesn't scale on the damage done... such a massive missed opportunity because "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LETS KEEP EVERYTHING THE SAME! WE CAN'T MAKE ANYTHING MORE DIFFICULT OR THE 2 BRAIN CELL ANDYS THAT CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO LEARN THEIR CLASS OR FIGHTS AND ACTIVELY WASTE 7 OTHER PEOPLE'S TIMES MIGHT BE UPSET AND MIGHT BE TO AFRAID TO TRY DO HARD CONTENT(aka be carried through hard content)"
I wonder what players would think of if healers had to heal constantly and manage mana with cure 1 saving cure 2 for tank hits or adding procs to all classes in some way so you're not doing the same exact rotation no matter what.
Going from Stormblood to Casualbringers was painful as a main healer, they demolished my boy SCH (removed Miasma, Miasma2 and Shadowflare, heck they even removed Energy Drain for a bit, luckly they re-added it) and they completely, utterly murdred AST, the old "Time Dilation / Celestial Opposition" astro was just amazing, it could have been a bit too powerful, but you had so many options and was just amazing, I have never touched it again since they destroyed it
Yes, all of this. I used to really enjoy playing healers now I stay far away. I don't want to smash one button. It's so weird they don't fix this. the better people get at scripted predictable content the less healing is needed so then what do you do? Spam your single target dps button. I'm still subbed for my house but im considering just ditching it
I kind of need a citation for the healer numbers. By my understanding from census numbers, there are significantly more players leveling and gearing their healers in the last two expansion than ARR/HW/SB. Even if you account the growth of the base, it's still solid improvement. Which is what SE, at the end of the day, wants to see the most.
Healing should feel fun for majority of players, not balancing classes and roles around ~1% of players that play the game as a second job is a normal thing and I don't get why people are complaining.
I have been saying these exact same things since right before Stormblood released. (Except for Ast, I don't really play it so idk) When someone says "healers should have more interesting dps rotations", replying with "I wish healing itself was harder instead of their dps rotations" is the equivalent of dismissing any criticism about anything with "but there are hungry children in Africa, why aren't you mad about that, huh?" It adds nothing to the conversation and is extremely tone deaf. Why point to a bigger, exponentially more difficult problem when the problem in front of you isn't that hard to fix? All it serves to do is derail any argument about healers in this game. It has also been really frustrating to see bigger content creators (who have the opportunity to communicate with the devs directly) ignore criticisms of healers when they are about the dps rotations. It seems like none of them feel passionately about this so the issues get ignored. Another disgusting thought: I once made the mistake of going to the Japanese forums (I understand Japanese but I'm not familiar with lingo specific to this game). There are so many posts about how healers are/should be for "princesses". Lots of people seem to believe that "girls play/should play healers" and also "girls like to be/should be pampered and carried through content". I saw these comments a long time ago, and when I checked recently, it hadn't changed much. So now, playing healers feels extra disgusting, and hearing "healers should heal more" sounds like "go make me a sandwich". When you realize that such a sexist thought process exists, additions like WHM lilies, Temperence wings, Seraph etc. suddenly feel VERY different.
I'm trying to level my PLD right now, but all the healers assume I have self healing right out of the box like DRK and WAR and are letting me die. Feels bad.
What's always bothered me is that everyone seems perfectly content with healers having so few damage buttons. If 85% of all tank's abilities were damage reducing cooldowns, there would be a RIOT, but for some reason they think its okay for healers. its infuriating.
The difference is boss is stripted, player isn't, Boss will always use raid wide damage or tankbuster regardless your tank performance, and tank mitigation only use in said raid wide damage/tankbuster but not outside of those. Player however, unless is trust, player you have in every boss/raid encounter will be DIFFERENT than the previous one. If player did boss mechanic correctly? No healing needed. If player failes to do boss mechanic? Ready your healz and ressez because you are in big trouble now. Last but not least, are player in your next encounter gonna act as same as the player in your previous encounter? Nah
I main AST. There's plenty I don't like about AST. But I do think that them having damage boosts to dole out to break up the malefic spam is a good idea in principle. Because (and let me preface this by saying that yes, I DO dps as a healer), when I play a healer, it's because I want to support a party. I dps because I HAVE to, not because I WANT to, and making the healers more focused on dps is the opposite of fixing that particular problem. Except maybe Sage, since "dps to heal" is basically what they sold the class as. That one's fair. Also, since I seem to have caught a case of evil from you, let me add this: I am SICK of people making videos smugly telling everyone, "a healer is ACSHUALLY just another dps". As if that itself isn't fucking stupid. If everyone started telling you you HAD to offheal with Vercure or Clemency, people who played those jobs would lose their shit because that is NOT why they picked them. But healers who don't WANT to dps? "Eat shit, that's just how it is." Anyway: still a pretty good video, with some real good points.
For AST, all I wanted (besides seeing cards with interesting properties return, which I knew we'd never get) was to be able to switch Sect in combat. I had quite a few times where I'd get into a trial and the battle would start and I realized I clicked the wrong sect (e.g. going Nocturnal when we had a SCH as the other healer). It would've been cool to be able to swap in action based on what was needed -- you know, kind of like what AST has always had an element of. You could even have it be on GCD so it's not "the perfect healer," and to encourage people to pick the proper sect ahead of time. Going off the "Two shield and two pure healers" symmetry, I was actually hoping that when they introduced Sage that they were going to turn healing into a bit of a spectrum, with AST and Sage being somewhere near the middle and WHM and SCH being the extremes. While I'd like to say that they "sort of" did this, I really can't justify that when WHM, what is supposed to be the pure healer, has its own shields (and got another charge of it in EW), making the few shield opportunities that AST still has not nearly enough to place it near the middle of the "healing spectrum."
Phlegma is literally just melee range Miasma 2 that SCH had in Stormblood. The button you used instead of Ruin 2 to weave if you had MP to spare and were good enough to stay in melee range. Phlegma doesn't benefit weaving much now since cast times are all 1.5s but it still rewards you for being close to the boss.
5:08 is some harsh truth they need to realize. Re: DPS, what is insane to me is the healers have the exact same 1 button spam from level 4 to level 90. In any other role that would be absolutely unacceptable. Healers are "rewarded" by playing well with. . . boring gameplay.
I agree, to me SB was the perfect balance of "you have multiple things to manage" and "the dps rotations are approachable to casual players." people will jack off over HW sch when it honestly just seems needlessly convoluted to me.
yes, yes, more dots for sch! give them all the dots that were removed from smn! give them old tridisaster and bane! then if people want to play a dot caster, they can play sch instead of crying about smn being "ruined"
I mean ive been leveling healer all through msq from 1-70 and ive had the most fun with ast because there i just more for me to be doing. feels like they should either give healers a bit of a rotation because fuck me does spamming q for mallefic get boring fast...
Man, i feel like the act of healing itself needs to be more fun, id like healing that feeds into my DPS if im going to DPS. Things like addersting and Lilies show this albeit in a very very simple way. If there were more uses for these meters/If the kits were revolved around healing feeding into dps which fed back into healing, id be interested. One of my problems with scholar despite it being the most interesting for me, is the fact that there are two gauges, just make it one gauge and have the gauge replenish/deplete based on your abilities that your incentivized for interacting with. I dont need a rotation necessarily, I dont need a combo; I need a reason to even heal/ output more damage in the first place other than just “make boss die quicker” and “prevent the mentor from getting mad at you”
I mean if you want to play a healer with a more complex rotation than the 1 button spam and dot upkeep, you can always play a Warrior.
Or a pld.
And now Dark Knight lol
Paladin literally has unlimited heals and they get it early. Why are they never mentioned?
@@IKIGAIofficial have you ever played Pally? Because they certainly do not have unlimited heals and they give up A LOT of damage if they use their magic potency buff on healing.
@@mobius4247 Req doesn't even buff Clemency anymore. It does make it instant, but it's the same potency as normal. So in a way they're even more punished than they used to be.
Chair has been trying so hard to convince us that he's not the same person as Lucy, then goes and uploads THIS
one's a demon, the other's evil. coincidence?
They have been not so secretly working together to mold ff14 to their own design. Overthrow our god Yoshi P and rule in his stead.
lol really? one is guy and other is girl, umm okay
@@kyotheman69 as a girl who can sound like both it is possible they are the same person
@@kyotheman69 someone has clearly never watched an anime before
4:19 "...simply begging for something to go wrong." This is literally me. The more people I see viewing cutscenes the more excited I get, especially in the harder alliance raids. I've grown to just love chaos. Collect those vulns dps, give me something to live for again.
Teared up at the Noct AST bit. Finally someone is saying it. What was the reason?? The changes you stated at the end would be amazing!
This green dps is living for the time between the seconds
there is no better way to tell me healer are badly designed than to tell me healer mains have fun when their party suck ass.
I always preferred Dinural Sect, but the loss of Nocturnal Sect still hurts. It was great to be flexable based on what the other healer was.
Last time I got a tank that viewed cutscene he timed his clemency before excog triggers and stayed away from my now 10yalm sacred soil. And the one before that was a WAR. Guess why healers get insta ques instead of tanks now.
@@TH3_DR3W Except you always went Diurnal no matter who your other healer was (unless it was another AST, then one of you poor bastards had to go Noct). The only thing Nocturnal Sect was good for was cheese strats like uptime dogs in E10S.
I feel the engagement level of healer is really high at the start of a new encounter when nobody has any idea what they're doing, you're vomiting spotheals left and right and trying to get another hardraise in there because the samurai died for the fourth consecutive time. Then the requirement of taking care of the party is greatly lowered once the party is adjusted to the mechanics and begins to perform at a much more consistent level, so you just become a glarebot at the end of the day. Basically the better the party gets the less you have to do
Pretty much this.
Yes this exactly. Here's hoping to bad parties to shine as healer. Also sometimes I'm like, why can't I dps so much as im used to in this dungeon. O wait sprout party. Ok lemme get you guys through this.
You can always public prog for that “I have no idea what the fuck is going on” vibe.
@@punishedbung4902 or be like me and have absolutely no friends so i have to pug everything
Is it a bad thing though? The better the party is, the easier your job becomes
Ironically, making lilies dps neutral actually made WHM bump up in playability significantly because it does the unthinkable and *checks notes* directly rewards the WHM for using its core class mechanic.
What's fucked is that vs a sage, i feel like even if i use lilies as movement tools, a sage still somehow heals more than me
@@TheCarash its all the regen sage has paired with kardia healing.
You should be able to spend a stack for another dot or something because spending lilies for no reason just to not over cap feels like shit.
@@amp448 nah just give them a shield or Regen
Basically, WHM needs a Kerachole
@@amp448 Consider WHM and SGE lucky their resource is not tied to damage. SCH's Energy Drain is a measly 100 potency, and yet, using your AF stacks to heal (When you have fairy abilities available and Recitation), feels like you're punished with DPS loss for using your core SCH system.
Having mained SCH when I started the game in Stormblood, I fell in love with the job. A healer with 3 (4 if you count Shadowflare) DoTs was an archetype I enjoyed both in thematic and playstyle, sort of like a plague doctor. Logging on ShB patch day to see 1/3 of my hotbars grayed out to learn that the job (and every other healer) had been reduced to a one-button wonder almost killed my desire to play the game as a whole. I ended up shifting to DPS and carried on with a mountain of salt but I'll never forget what Yoshi-P took from me.
SCH MP cost of shield heals was so expensive at 4.0 launch, loving that at the start wow.
Astrologians are with you there my fellow healer.
and people try to convince me ShB was good
@@pat1509 narratively yea but sch & drk got butchered and hasnt recovered since
Should've been here around 3.55 pre-SB where they removed all of cross class skills like Aero, Blizzard II, etc. A lot of players were (and still are) complaining years before ShB.
1:54 was so slick king, i noticed it all on my own, i didn't even need u to point it out to me. our resident mr. chair gets more witty with his editing every single day
oh my gosh wow i can't believe his editing has come so far, i never would have noticed it if not for your comment lucy.
Yeah that was slick af
Ofc you noticed, you made it chair.
Commenting on your own vids from an alt account? Kinda cringe.
simping as usual
As a healer main, the reason you brought up is exactly why I enjoy doing allience raid, every group is different, and sometimes everything will go south, and that's when I fell the most alive
Running Orbonne, 50-75% of the time it’s a shitshow.
HOWEVER, it does feel great you being the Alliance back from the being or even prevent a wipe WITHOUT using an LB3.
The phase change for Ultima.
But it’s a reason I enjoy Orbonne over Towers. In Orbonne, 3 bosses have “heal check” mechanics (Mustadio’s Analysis, TG Cid’s Cleansing Strike, and Ultima’s phase change). Agrias instead has multiple AoEs that she regularly casts.
Towers is pretty dull in comparison.
It's 2024. 7.0 removed dots because they're too much of a hassle to keep up. All heal buttons get condensed into one st and one aoe that heal, regen and shield at once. The latest healer job, a massive, giant hammer wielding scholar with really sick animations that, from promotional footage, seem to be dps focused, has no damaging abilities at all. The animations do look cool tho.
Dont forget, reworked dragoon no longer jumps at all, monk loses its last 2 positionals, and the only ability all 4 tanks have outside their 1-2-3 is rampart
Hell, positionals are just removed from the game entirely
i still enjoy healing a lot, idk why but seeing hp bars get healed and throwing buffs around triggers the "yay im helping" part of the brain in ways no tanking or dpsing does.
except everyone would do perfectly fine if you werent there too. Sorry hun that the reality of the current state of the game :)
@@penultimania4295 I disagree. If people are still capable of wiping WITH healers, it means that, normally, they're necessary.
If your argument is that things can be run without them, then parties are not necessary either, because you can technically solo raids with warrior, etc.
"Challenge runs" where people take the classes to its extremes are not the standard and therefore don't reflect the state of the game.
Idk why you feel the need to bring others down, the reality of the game is that healers are needed :)
Could they use a rework to make their DPS rotation better? Absolutely! But that doesn't make them not needed.
For me that part of my brain gets triggered when I apply my Bard buffs and I don't even have to deal with the responsibilty of being a healer.
You enjoy a role that can be played by a blind chimp.
@@GoatOfWar all roles can be played by blind chimps, what is your point?
I can't express enough how discouraging it is to play as a healer, feel like my role is important, accidentally die, and then watch the tank take out the boss on their own. It's so invalidating.
It's like, "Awe, you thought we actually needed you? That's cute." 😳🥺😭
I remember during the ShB media tour, everyone brought up “hey, healers’ DPS kits have been fucking obliterated and seem really boring. Why’d you do that?” And the answer we were given was essentially “don’t worry, we’re gonna really increase the outgoing damage in all content. You’ll need all those extra heals.” Then all they did was make raidwides in leveling dungeons and normal raids hit 10% harder.
And that’s only for newer content, not the existing 80% of content that players still regularly do in roulettes. It also doesn’t account for average item levels increasing over time and solo combat still being way too simple.
The other answer, or rather players speculated (since getting answers for anything related to healers from Yoshi P has been nearly impossible) that the pruning of the kits was so that they could streamline healer kits and build the foundation for new interesting skills in the future.
Come Endwalker each healer got a single target "mitigation" tool which none of them really needed and...another heal with an exceptionally long CD. Or in SCH's case Expedient which is alright and quickly got nerfed.
And DoTs way more fucking deadly
@@eolendes6432 Didn't they also kick out their healer in their dungeon testing team for being too good because he started to do normal raids and extreme trials? Which kind of tells us what demographic healers are designed for.
then abyssos came out and it actually makes the healers have to worry about healing again
As a warrior main, i say healing is really fun.
One idea, having some kind of combo in the dps rotation that, instead of being more damage, provides the healer with some other kind of buff. E.g. a single-spell cast speed increase for the next spell, or something that interacted with your healing in a minor way to make it more potent, to encourage you to dps to improve your healing.
And if they're concerned about button bloat, then maybe compress some of the situational abilities down. Heck do we still NEED physick or benefic or cure I? Or multiple different OGCD skills with long cooldowns that do basically the same thing?
They have done this before and a bunch of dps player would play healer and never heal.
Dps player not liking plying healer? Then FFXIV is doing healers the right way.
Make Res spells instant, but have them give the caster a 60s debuff that makes your rezzes take 7 seconds to cast. Bam. You may now safely remove Swiftcast from healers. Functionally everything is identical.
@@SableBez no one cares what people in unorganized groups do.
@@SableBez they do that literally right now, though, and they'll do that even when they inevitably make glare auto-cast dia every time, because healers being brainless means people without brains are going to play them
Since he mainly focused on Scholar, what about rolling the idea of making them a DoT class again in with the healing?
Maybe make SCH dots pulse a very minor amount of healing when they tick, and Fester could remove the DoT(s) for a decent aoe heal based on remaining time? That way you're encouraging DoT upkeep while still making it part of the healing role, and they don't need to outdamage other healer types to make the DoTs worth using?
As a SCH/SGE main, I find normal content to be extremely boring, but in high-end content, I find that babysitting the party IS the extra complexity.
I might only use one or two heals in normal content, but in high end, I'll cycle through most of my heals, and I'll usually make at least rough timelines to ensure appropriate heals are up at appropriate times. But when the party takes avoidable damage or doesn't mitigate (which is a LOT of pf parties), I not only need to immediately notice, but I need to make fast decisions on how many extra heals we need, what I can do while saving what heals I know will be required for future mechanics, AND also keeping up my dot and dps.
With that said, I'd really like at least one of my SCH dots back, I miss them D:
I feel the exact opposite. People in normal content might not be good with mechanics and their own class so a lot of mistakes can happen. Whenever I'm running high-end content though people know the mechanics, they've learned their own class long ago, high-end is just a dance that if someone fucks up everyone is punished or straight up wiped.
The only exception seems to be TEA, and that's just wishful thinking, thought the same about uwu and ucob before.
Even when parties take avoidable damage, in most fights the next damage don't happen for a while, resulting in you having way too much time to heal.
@@serahill Eh, I guess I’ve gotten lucky enough to run a lot of content recently with total newbies who don’t know what they’re doing even at endgame, so I have to work hard to keep ppl alive through their accumulated mistakes. I have a soft spot for newbies so I don’t mind babying these people & holding their hands through content. My logs look like trash but I don’t care bc I’m not trying to be competitive, just to have fun & clear content
@@Leroset It's funny that you replied today, my FC is organizing Rookie runs on current savage tier. We're gonna help people get into high-end content and get them over that first time anxiety.
Might be a bit more fun that running the same fights with loggers.
Of course it's boring, it has been made boring. It used to be fun when you had more to do than maintain one DoT and spam your only attack.
I would love a DPS combo on Sage, even if it's just a small one
dosis > swiftcast > raise [tank that didn't mit]
For some reason I expected sage to have one because their whole thing is the pew pew healer that heals from dpsing. I never looked at any of the overviews of the job before I picked it up and got disappointed.
They do have 4 damage buttons and a gap closer. Guess the dev team thought that was good enough....
Comparatively they have at least 100% more
Imagine just something simple like if they attack 4 times they get access to a special stronger attack, 4 of those and bam, finisher, its the simplest combo in the world but it'd be a mile more engaging!
It's in a rough spot when you feel like you're playing wrong by actually healing.
Well the whole system is a bit off ... while the upper 5% want all classes but the Whm to be fking ubercomplicated to make it less playable for the other 95% while flexing and memeing on them.
Most bored out people just hate the Idea that a game like ff14 is a MMORPG with a social focus rather than having a bs complicated system so that having a 2 class comm would thrive even more.
Most raiders I know do not enjoy raiding because of it being a challenge ... most raid for being a narcisstic bumhole and make it visible to everyone.
@@PiconPrimeKnight hurr durr raiders BAD
indeed "you used a GCD heal???? Your dps loss i guess oof" =____=
@@PiconPrimeKnight play a different videogame
@@PiconPrimeKnight Who the fuck are these raiders you're talking about. I have never met someone like that and almost exclusively spend my time in this game raiding.
one thing i don't see enough people talking about when discussing pvp is that small step in the direction opposite from the all too common homogenization. Apparently it's actually fun when the classes have different strengths and weaknesses, and you actually have to keep in mind what their limit breaks do, who woulda thought
It also has more balance concerns than anything we've seen PvE related in recent years. Who would have thought developing both unique and balanced jobs is hard.
Yeah but PvP is stupidly unbalanced as it is right now, so I can foresee a rehomogenization very soon.
@@Verd254 thx. Now i am convinced of the depressing thought that all the dumbing down was done to give the dev team an easier job with balancing. Then following it by saying it was meant for the mentaly challenged.
... until you get to the point where WHM is ridiculously overtuned and you see 2 of them in every CC match
this is why we have job homogenization which - surprise, surprise - is actually a good thing
@@TheCrimsonFacker always has been. It's a scale where you have perfect balance with 0 variance on one side and turbulent cycles of op/up on the other, where classes can be 100% required in content or so suboptimal you'll need to suck a hundred dicks to get in. The former is already balanced by default, the latter is impossible to balance. The truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle
As a dweeb that pays attention to lore. AST has Time magic and Geomancy. There's NO reason we don't have more DPS buttons.
Except not anymore cuz astros can't have nice things. Geomancy was what gave us our shield in the first place. How's that gonna work in the quest now
They actually changed the quest to exclude that you heal by rewinding time. Idr what they did now. But they don't mention time magic anymore just divinity.
@@AZodiacCancer The villain of the expansion uses it, and the dialogue afterwards talks about you learning time magic. Also Gravity is still around, which is time magic traditionally.
Basically when devs forget their own lore to fuck up for "logical reasons"
The chair villain arc was the thing we didnt deserve, and we didnt know we needed
Not sure if anyone deserve it or not, but I can say with confident that I don't need it.
It’s hard to take his endgame takes that are even close to decent seriously especially when he talks about raiding. Especially with his “villain arc” tone for things sounding more authoritative than he really is with his limited raid experience.
@@Exaltable except he does ultimates lmao
@@dragopy2410 have fun kissing square enix ass for them to ruin the game
You cannot throw out the grenade that is this rotation 2:40 and walk away like nothing happened. It is beautiful and only gets better the more you look at it
would you like to meet our God and saviour Dragon Kick rotation? You spam dragon kick until you need to reapply twin snakes/demolish/bootshine, then spam it some more. Weave in your buffs and chakra on cd (ideally getting two demolishes within RoF but at this point who cares lmao). This is about a 100 dps loss as compared to optimal drift monk rotation.
@@pawsouth2897 I did this last night in the ally raid and cried when I was 2nd dps overall
I was so excited when Sage was announced because in my mind I thought it would be a hyper-complex healer with single-target and AoE heals directly proportionate to dealing damage, that when played correctly could dump massive damage naturally.
Sage is still my favorite healer now if only because sometimes getting to use a charge of Phlegma in between my single damage button spam gives me the happy chemical.
"Sage isnt complex, i upset"
Excuse me?
God I want a healer equivalent of gunbreaker in terms of play style so damn bad. Like you just do a combo/rotation well enough and you get rewarded with a strong heal or something. That would be so sick.
Basically a battlemage something rpgs to scared to do
Kinda like heavy/light bowgun in monster hunter, but cooler
Im a new player, just finished ARR propper. I really enjoy scholar as an idea, but playing the job in MSQ is indeed ridiculously boring. One damage button and 10 variants of healing. I finished all extreme trials while just mashing 1, its kinda sad :/
This made me switch from WHM while doing MSQ to BLM, using WHM only for fast queues in duty roullete.
Scholar has the benefit of being able to play Summoner in MSQ and playing Scholar in duty's. Though now that Summoner is also brain dead it isn't as helpful.
@@Irimu_ everyone keeps saying it's braindead but for me who gets easily overwhelmed by giant complex rotations Summoner was the perfect job for me leveling through msq these past months.
It is most certainly not brain dead. Easier than other dps, yes. But people saying it’s brain dead don’t play at 90 or don’t play hard content or if they do they probably parse like garbage.
@@Awsomeness103 I feel bad for old Summoners but I don't have anything against simple jobs. I just hope we get to keep some of the complexity in the game.
I really wished the next healer would be based on a ranged physical dps instead of a ranged magical dps like every other healer, having a more complicated dps rotation but removing cast time to compensate, so people don't complain about their dps
Melee healer
@@Gunthersby Surgeon job, sounds kinda fucking cool to be perfectly honest.
This should've been Sage to be honest, I expected it to be the Gubreaker of Healers (rotation wise)
omniknight from dota 2 with big hammer
@@Gunthersby Sorry, best we can do is Phlegma on sage
"giving a little more to manage is not going to make them worse when they can already be close to rock bottom" is legendary and literally just true. villain arc of the century.
As a AST main, I'm kind of grateful for my "1" button rotation. In practice though it's far from a 1 button DPS rotation. Have to manage cards, divination raid buff, star, your 3 seals and macrocosmos. Then you have a million oGCDs heals to juggle. Early game is kind of lame because you rely heavily on GCD healing but as you get to the end game, it's all about figuring out how to NOT cast GCDs and rely off oGCDs.
I've healed in a few other games like WoW (on monk and shaman), Aion (cleric), Lineage 2 (Bish) and SWTOR (Agent). They each have their charms but I've never felt so busy as I have on FFXIV's AST. It gets into some pretty 5head territory; especially with the game's emphasis on healer DPS.
I´m actually doing my transission from WHM to AST at the moment, because I heard, that you have alot more to do with that class.
WHM was my first class I played until the fnale of Endwalker and damn even though the new dungeons and raids were some new nervwrecking stuff, at the end of the day it was very boring to play.
So I hope AST can reignite the healing flame for me, otherwise I might just change to BRD or RDM.
@@Demagogines Yeah man go for it! That's the strongest part of FFXIV; freely switching classes :) Now if only they'd do something about the end game gearing system for people who play multiple classes regularly T_T
@@Demagogines I had the opposite experience. My first healer was AST and I've pretty much mastered it. At the end of the day I was very bored of it because I didn't feel like my buffs did anything. All they did was offset your basic low damage marginally with buffs but with 5x the weaving complexity.
I've recently made a new WHM character and recently hit 90 and it is hands down my favorite healer by far. All the instantaneous damage you could ask for, a healing kit that once you get afflatus misery and afflatus rapture makes incredibly good.
WHM sucks to 50, is mediocre until Rapture and Misery. Then it feels like an absolute powerhouse of rapid heals. Plenary indulgence finally works due to having afflatus rapture, and it makes casting Afflatus Misery so much more worth it.
Ultimately with AST I never felt like my buffs were worth a damn, just a very curated "under ideal optimal conditions with perfect card play your overall damage/output with buffs is...still less than every other healer." Sure, I have "more to do," but frankly they don't matter. It's more work for less effectiveness.
It's busywork without the reward. WHM as it is actually feels punchy and nothing can replace holy and assize spam. SGE's SFX are lame, though I have yet to play scholar. Unfortunately getting magical Jordans for your capstone level 90 ability is very disappointing if you ask me, even if it's tactically incredible.
@@whythefuckdowehavethisherenow WHM felt really good to me in 6.1 after the buffs. If I want to heal a duty that's probably the healer I would go with right now. It's also the only healer that was improved in 5.0, although this probably isn't saying much since it was the worst designed job in the game at the time. It's still a shame about Aero 3 though, of all the healers WHM certainly has the design space to handle a 2nd dot...
AST has too many buttons and feels like busywork like you said, and the cards are all the same now and it ruins the job fantasy for me, but I might give it another chance if the 6.2 changes are good. Although I would say it's more fun than WHM when you're stuck in a dungeon with a WAR that just doesn't need any healing since shuffling cards is still more fun than just standing there and spamming one button.
SCH is a dead job to me, I just don't like it anymore after 5.0. Unless they bring back the unique fairies and the plaguedoctor playstyle I could throw away the job stone and I wouldn't notice it.
SGE is... fine I guess?
@@whythefuckdowehavethisherenow wdym, AST has been highest rdps for a while now
FFXIV healing is just the logical conclusion of how raids are designed in modern MMOs.
When MMOs were a test of resources vs boss mechanics, healers mattered, they kept your raid alive, rotating healers to regenerate mana was something you had to do, using consumables to keep your mana topped up, ect.
Modern MMOs try to fake difficulty by replacing resource management with groundfire one shot dodging, meaning that you're simply waiting for the tanks or random raid damage to lower their health to 50% so you can cast a heal, while applying your DPS with a basic low effort rotation because having to focus on DPS AND heal bars means that you're making a role that is more complicated.
Its why I am in the firm position that every class in MMOs should have multiple roles. Your main role (The trinity) and an off role (CC, Kiting, offtank, lockdown, ect) you know, all those old roles that were replaced by infinite AOE threat that made every encounter a braindead groundfire dodging, when what we really need is more player engagement with the boss that isn't just playing a more and more complicated DDR song that is your rotation.
Old MMOs were braindead. They had no mechanics you had to think about nearly as much as Savages or Ultimates. They were just long slogs where your healers spammed their abilities and everyone just debuffed all bosses enough to ignore their damage. Everybody could just stand still and spam the same abilities for every fight . . . same as they do now, except you actually have to think about movement and mechanics going on. Everquest wishes it actually had any challenge content. The only challenge there is getting people together for it. Or FF XI where they just released stupidly over-statted bosses like AV to make artificial difficulty.
hmm, kind of like how the game was before all the casuals showed up and they dumbed it down.
@@chaptap8376 youve never played asherons call.
I love the ideas presented at the end especially for the SCH changes; I want that version of SCH in the game. I haven't played FFXIV since Shadowbringers so I was confused and disappointed when I learned in this video that Nocturnal Sect was removed... Healer boredom is definitely something I'm familiar with.
I think the last time I had fun playing Green DPS was playing SCH in Diamond EX since there was just enough group damage going out at a consistent rate to actually force occasional decision-making.
ngl, AST has so many ogcd heals that i just forget to use them(celestial intersection, celestial opposition, crown play & exaltation), but also half of them are designed for you to cast and forget them(earthly star, horoscope, macrocosmos, exaltation again). its...weird. not bad, but weird. i wouldnt mind even simple combos after malefic that could maybe eat my cards that dont have the astrosign i need at the time(the option to throw them away is still absurd). i also miss nocturnal sect. the versatility to be a shield healer when we already had regen was just...nice
you 'forget' to use them BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT NEEDED BECAUSE THIS GAMES DESIGN IS GARBAGE NOWADAYS.
We had high skill ceilings for tanks and healers back in the day, but people whined and complained because playing a tank or healer was like playing a damage dealer with extra responsibilities. And who the fuck wants to be responsible for their own output AND the output of others?
I think the solution was to have more outgoing damage, so healers have to focus on actually healing rather than just expecting them to be DPS classes during the downtime.
WoW does a much better job in that area in my opinion because there's tons of outgoing damage constantly, and you have to be healing every second.
@@KyokujiFGC WoW also has more diverse healer playstyles though and most healers have more dps abilities and often stronger synergies with them in their healing toolkit compared to FF14. Like, Discipline Priest is ideally just doing full on healing through dps for most of the time, Monk has Fist Weaving and Paladin has the melee playstyle where you reduce holy shock cd and generate healing ressources through dpsing.
Honestly the most fun I have as a healer is when playing with a tank who either does wall to wall pulls or doesn't know what he's doing. I play WHM and in those moments it actually becomes a fun class you have to think about. In that sense, I wouldn't mind if dungeon design was a little bit meaner with its mobs. I've said this before about bosses - basically every attack that a boss throws out is either a party-wide blast meant to be countered with AOE healing, or it's a dodgeable attack that'll kill you.
Honestly though? I'm not sure the boss design thing bothers me THAT much. Like, let's be real: the interesting part about ff14's bosses is doing the different mechanics. Sure, you might be doing your rotation, but at the end of the day that becomes pretty rote. Hell, the worst part of learning a new class is when you DON'T have the rotation burned into your brain. Maybe you get excited when you get to slam your proc'd OGCD button. Mostly the boss fights live and die by the boss AOE's. One button, 8 buttons, rotation size doesn't really matter to me.
i hated getting tanks who had 0 clue what to do in dungeons while levelling healer. You'd get some French Warrior who doesnt even know what bloodwhetting or equilibrium is, in the lv 85 dungeon. I'll let them die and leave the instance, before i have to spam all my cooldowns and not DPS at all because they want to put in 0 effort.
Weirdly enough I find managing my dots a lot harder on healers than any other job I‘ve played so far.
The Paladin dots can be ignored entirely if I stay on top of my rotation but pressing the same gcd for 15 times and know that you have to reaply a dot is a lot harder for me for some reason.
i guess you dont have the brain capacity to press 1 button every 30 sec. Congrats SE are designing this game for you.
that's because DPS and tank DoTs come up naturally in your rotation. Healers have no rotation. They just spam 1 button and then have to stop spamming it to reapply the DoT
It’s weird how scarce criticisms of FFXIV are in this community. Even the constructive kind.
Glad your current Arch is helping this
@@harryn7518 This comment is a bit old by now, but in my experience any time I see someone question why things are the way they are in XIV they get shouted at to go play another game if they don't like it. Balance issues are one thing, but questioning design choices is another.
Being a healer overall is boring. I'd much prefer if those classes could affect the battlefield or enemies. Debuffs are a huge thing that modern MMOs forgot about. You don't deal damage, but you can debuff the crap outta enemies to make them much easier to handle, lower their damage, make them miss, CC them, debuff their damage resistance, all things that should be everywhere in healer kits, not just on maybe two skills of two classes.
Fuck yes! This!!! Solution to boring support role? Crowd control!
IMAGINE HOW COOL IT COULD BE TO GIVE THE ENEMY A CHANCE TO RANDOMLY MISS! Imagine how hype it would be during a super high end raid that your random debuff makes a raid wide just miss, it'd be so incredibly cool! (if slightly broken, but woe is me, a move that can influence a fight)
I really like this idea. Puts me in mind of Radiation defenders from CoH.
Probably couldn't do anything that extreme in FF14, but you could totally have like a reverse Astrologian, who focused on Vuln Up and Damage Down on enemies during their non-healing time.
funny enough this USED to be in the game. SCH used to blind enemies, eye for an eye existed, bard used to lower evasion. Just little things
@@koralionheart so basically "Flash" lol
"If Healers arent engaging enough, just play Ultimate content." - Yoshi P.
hey look everyone another yoshi.p nut garggler!
@@zeening i am merely Quoting what the Game Director says. That doesn't mean in any regard that i share his views.
Healer roles will always suffer from dichotomy of design: They can't feature complex rotations because they need to be able to react to circumstances (you can't design them with perfect players in mind) but to make them interesting relies on people actively making mistakes. You end up in a situation where you can have lots of "fun" (or busybodying) in low skill scenarios (Alliance Raids, PFs, farm parties), feel borderline useless and kinda boring in mid-high skill scenarios (Prog raiding with a skilled group, reclears, log runs) where you're just mashing your DPS button until the encounter design requests that you stop doing so, and (I imagine this is what Yoshi-P meant with "play Ultimates if you want Healer to be challenging") only trully "engaging" in those encounter designs where it is REQUIRED for you to heal a party to keep it alive.
I think just like you consider having to press many distinct buttons (and therefore dislike XIVCombos) "fun", I personally don't find it all that interesting, therefore I don't think Healers are "Not Fun" nor they lack complexity.
Personally, I find the resource management, reaction/prediction based gameplay, and accurate targeting to be the enjoyable and mostly unique aspect of the Healer Role, and that if you want more rotation complexity (but still be a "support" role), go play Red Mage or Summoner (now if only Squeenix would give us support heals that actually healed anything more than a pittance)
Note that this doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to changes to the healer role to be more specialized, but I do question how would you make this fit into the design of FFXIV. I think it could be made to work if GCD heals don't break DPS combos, and Healers not have a "2 minute clockwork rotation", as to not be afraid of drifting.
Those are in reality non problems in the current game thanks to charges and gauges coupled with how strong oGCD heal options are. My 2 cents here as someone with experience in healers up to ultimate would be:
-Whm: Add a 60s offensive lily action, would help build misery without overheal and woudn't get in the way of the healing as at best it would consume 1/3th of the lilies of a encounter, make thin air nourish the bood lily when used on a gcd heal and make every gcd build stacks/gauge to use on a stronger gcd attack (think a gcd shinten). If they make so healing gcds build more energy than dps gcds then whm could have gauge management that doesn't get in the way of healing (as you could bank uses in the form of excess of gauge), could reduce the glare spam in over 40% without drastically changing the identity of the job nor its playstyle
-Sch: GIB DOTS, for real dots are really noob friendly as delaying them is not that big of a loss vs a normal gcd not used and a job with high % of dot damage loses less when forced to switch a nuke for a gcd heal, change aetherflow so it doesnt penalize the dps when healing is used and instead reward the player for using this gauge. They could also add cds related to dots with charges like old fester or shadowflare.
-Sge: This one is interesting, they could create a cooldown (with charges) based offensive version of eukrasia that changes dosis and dyskrasia into a reaper like combo with 2 branches (dosis->dyskrasia or dyskrasia->dosis) with different effects, think 1 with big damage and the other with a damage buff like War that also gives addersting. Then add a 60/120s combo with addersting (like gnb's continuation combo) to spice things up, add a trait so every addersting action reduces phlegma cd and phlegma uses reduce the offensive eukrasia cd.
Since all of that is charged based it could be delayed at will, being gcd based allows the sge to keep the healing with its massive ogcd kit and thanks to the loop (Offensive Eukrasia gives addersting, addersting action lower the cd of phlegma, phlegma lowers the cd of Offensive Eukrasia...) the player could keep control of the speed of its rotation being able to accerlerate it when low healing is required and having a slower one when they have to heal (an extra dot in the form of eukrasia dyskrasia would be appreciated too)
-Ast: For this one I think an extra dot and more card management would be fine, instead of trying hard to make every card the same I think a fixed deck with cards that are stronger and weaker would be better. Let's say Ast has 6 cards in its deck (1 of each) divided into 3 ranged and 3 melee, give them tiers from 1 to 3 being tier 1 a weak 2% increase and tier 3 a 8-9%, with that every time Ast draws, the cards remaining in the deck would be reduced by 1, changing the % of getting a stronger one in the next draw, as such actions like redraw would be more impactful and new actions like discarding a card to draw other (reducing the number of cards in the deck) or discarding a bad card to improve the effect of the next card used could be implemented changing the ast mentality from "get seals and gib card" to micromanage its options to guarantee the maximum number of strong cards while getting the most out of their weak one be in the way of discarding them or powering up the strong ones.
Biggest drawback for this is that ast would need an action that opens more weaving windows which probably a cd reduction of lightspeed coupled with the dot could do.
I feel all of those would be much more interesting than current healer iterations without getting in the way of healing
@@SWKJaviK Also one thing about dots is they can have different durations so that players don't just say "Oh it's dot time now have to cast TWO gcds"
Lilybell should cost a lily, be a gcd, and feed the blood lily. Stylistically it just makes sense.
Sage should have a cooldown that puts a "kardia" on a target ENEMY causing their damaging spells to proc extra damage for a short duration.
AST 100% needs lightspeed with 2 charges unless weaving is getting less insane
No offense, but did you start playing in Shadowbringers? Every healer had more DPS buttons in the past and healing was in a better state than it is now. It's not some crazy change from how the "game is designed" and telling people who want this to return in some aspect to just play DPS jobs is insulting. Stormblood Scholar had DoTs it maintained while not stopping it from healing, and having 3 DoTs to upkeep was not super complex. It's not about "2 minute rotations!!" its about making our role more engaging in ALL levels of content. Even in TEA, an overwhelming majority of your casts will be your 1 DPS spell and 1 DoT, Ultimate doesn't offer a more engaging experience on healers and those who think it does clearly haven't done Ultimate. It's not about making healers challenging, and Yoshida's response wasn't addressing what the question was asking at all. We want healers to be engaging.
@@kidragora Nope, I started in Heavensward, and I played those healers. What I meant is the game has clearly shifted focus, you can even see it in the old content that was reworked where a lot more raidwides are casted by the bosses. I'm not saying it's impossible either, just that I personally don't think healers need dos buttons to be "fun", they are "the most fun" when things go sideways *and that is ok*. If you make Healers fun when they can DPS (because no healing is required) you'll encourage non-hesling healers, and even potential toxicity when they're "rudely interrupted" by that DPS who stood in orange juice. Or at least that is my hypothesis.
@@Meoiswa We're going to have to agree to disagree, since healers historically had a LOT more damage skills in the past and it was never an issue with people being toxic over having to actually heal instead of DPS. RIP Aero III.
bless your villain arc, this shit encouraging me to get mad about things i'm allowed to dislike. everyone needs this
This did not age well..... Now all the healers quit because of healing checks in P5S-P8S XD
Hell yes villain arc continues
FFXIV finally has popular youtubers that make a career of complaining about it constantly while still playing and loving the game, we’ve truly hit the big time.
Another banger video from gigachad king, villain of the FFXIV community, master of ALL jobs and roles misshapen chair. Keep the uploads coming bro, they genuinely get better with each video.
Gunna say it... AST is the most unique healer.
The rng buffs and time based healing allows for constant management you just don't get with the other healers. It's a lot more complex to play AST because you have to keep cycling between all of your Ogcd's as well as your cards and dps tactics.
Hot take but noct sect and diu sect weren’t that much different in play style. So I do not give a shit they removed it.
Healers should have a tank level rotation. Obviously not combos since they're casters but on that level of complexity.
Pretty much. As a SCH main, that job ability preview for Endwalker straight up had me sad for weeks.
I want more dots and stat variances, etc.
With the new healer strike trying to go on and getting attention... Honesyly this whole thing is even more needed. Like this is every single thing in yhis video is needed, needs to be talked about and how good its points are.
there are so many ways to make a rotation slightly more indepth, its kinda weird they have it like this
Preach! I've been shouting this from the rooftops for years. I miss my old Scholar with 5 DoTs and manual Embrace! Did you see the live letter recently where one of the most upvoted questions was about this very subject? Yoshi-P's response was that if you want healing to be fun go play Ultimates. Oh and their dungeon balance testing healer got too good so they had to replace him for someone worse, so dungeons will have even more lax healing requirements. YAY. Part of why I've fallen in love with the new PvP is just because they removed healing buttons and put an emphasis on support / damage. Sage is like 90% damage buttons. Thank Hydaelyn! It's simplistic but I'd love that kind of job diversity in PvE. As it stands I have to get my kicks by playing chicken with everyone's health while praying that someone fucks up so that I have an interesting problem to solve
I understand the concept of having Ultimate content be for more tryhards, but as someone who sits in the in-between, it sucks. I don't really care to dedicate months to a consistent schedule to clear savage/ultimate content with strangers. But I also feel like the normal content (outside of groups of players who are new and/or bad) is too easy for healers. It's hard though, because a group that is terrible is incredibly difficult to carry sometimes (broken underlevelled equipment, no damage mitigation, DPS not AOE-ing, standing in every mechanic). I think to make healing more interesting, they would have to have a higher level of entry period. Right now it feels like "are players competent and know the basics of their job? I spam my one attack button; did the players level skip and not even bother to learn anything about the game? my job is to try and carry them and if there is any oops, it is my fault". I'm used to a healer role being a babysitter of sorts and I really am okay carrying as long as people aren't jerks, but it feels bad that there doesn't seem to be a way to cater to helping competent players. AST has buffs, but the buffs feel so inconsequential in regular content (especially if that competent player isn't being optimal in rotation). I just want something to focus on in regular content that can elevate and make things a bit more interesting. I would have loved if Sage required being more optimal with DPS and getting healing in return for the level of optimization (or the inverse). It sort of works like that, but the numbers remain low to match the other healers. I would also love if healers did more damage, period. Beef up the numbers but tie them to doing a rotation properly. Idk. I don't negate that its a difficult quandary, some things are still needlessly tedious while others are needlessly simplified, but I'd just like them to try. More tools like Earthly Star would be lovely, if we are to DPS and heal, give us more decisions in how to do both efficiently. Again, I get the apprehension to add necessary healing to regular content, but they could make the kit more rewarding for optimal play.
Healing is only fun with new content. Quickly gets old when people know mechs and stop making nearly as many mistakes.
10:17 THERE ARE EVEN HEALERS WHO DON'T DO THE BARE MINIMUM HEALING.
Found this from Zepla's YT. Had to come by just to say... Amazing! Subscribed! Best healer video!
Adding a couple buttons to healers won't really do anything. It would have to be changed fundamentally.
Healers already have to optimize more than some DPS jobs, looking at you RPR, but it doesn't even feel good/rewarding until 3/4th turns of savage tiers or ultimates.
If you don't enjoy optimizing healing for high end encounters, or don't want to do something mind-numbingly chill for daily content, then healing probably isn't for you.
- if they add a couple extra buttons it doesn't change anything because it would still be very simple. We need full interactive rotations. Like healing combos that boost dps potencies and vice versa, which would also require encounters to have more light amounts of damage
- if they make savage/ultimate content just spam damage constantly then you get WoW were healing is like 80-90% of an encounter and some classes don't do like any damage at all
Problem with optimizing healers, is that your reward for learning the fight and CD use is casting even more of your single target spell. Who would want to be rewarded with yet another cast of your nuke when unoptimized play is already festered with 70% casts of your nuke.
Could be interesting to have healing spells with a duality to them? Heals if targeting an ally, does some kind of damage and combo trigger if cast on an enemy?
That also means there could be some interaction between the two, getting to a certain part of the combo tree, and changing target to do bonus damage or healing with an additional effect.
This way you can make it as interesting as you want. Focus on healing if you need to, but you can effortlessly transition into a DPS rotation when healing isn't necessary. No button bloat, just...uh... tooltip bloat
Wow actually did that just now with the Evoker, their standart filler spell is both a heal and a dps cast. You can say what you want about the game, at least they give some fucks about designing healing classes...and tanks.
Stop making so much sense.
If you dislike just spamming 1 dps button then put your Glare not only on 1 but also on 2 and 3.
There - now you can press 1 2 3 on a healer.
Biggest brain in the room
You sir are a genius you saved healers in FFXIV
Basically the enjoyment of healing inversely correlates with how familiar your group is with encounter.
But yeah, I felt the same during ShB. I mained AST during SB and played bunch during HW, and I enjoyed stance dancing even though it was janky as hell. While AST had mindblowing rotation of DoT and filler malefic back then, cards were interesting to me since I had to play them right for best effect. I tried to play a scholar during ShB, but felt it boring (this was before energy drain was added back).
Even if contribution of more engaging dps rotation isn't much, it would still keep people engaged rather than zoning out during fight. I completely agree that if they were ever to embrace one-button autocombos, there would need to be option for old manual rotations - just because even that little work that goes into pressing different buttons can help stimulate player - even though the difference would be zilch..
Other option would be making secondary mechanics or rotations more focused in exchange for autocombos, but I really doubt they would ever do that.
I really hope Sage gets a DPS combo next expansion, would be cool if it impacted Kardia too. Maybe a basic 1-2-3 combo added into Dosis, with each combo making Kardia heal more. I was thinking it would be cool to have a skill that shoots out a small AOE heal from the tank/whoever has Kardia on, could incorporate that into a DPS skill as well.
I was hoping Sage would get a real combo and be a healer you really had to think about to optimize. Stronger than other healers but harder and requiring more thought to compensate. Instead we got SHB Scholar Remixed and there was nothing interesting going on. I miss 4.X healers
Healer since 3.0 and I miss Faust. The door mob in A1s. Halfway through, the healing intensity needed was so great that you couldn’t keep up without non stop double gcd heals. The enrage was just healers dropping the tank because it was actually that impossible. I want THAT! I want a “healing rotation” for high intensity burst damage happening in a fight, like E12s enrage, but imagine that just being a normal raid aoe. Or more zombie adds like the dragon heads in shinryu where you heal them to kill them. That is what i want. HPS big boy numbers and it to matter. I only feel alive in dungeons now when they have huge wall to walls I can test myself with. Fk a dps rotation! If i want complex damage rotations I can go play summoner. I want complex healing rotations…guess what…it already exists, but nobody knows the optimal healing rotation because nowhere ever do you need to optimize your hps. LET ME HEAL its like its the job I signed up for or something.
This is exactly it. I hate how everything in this game is diluted to DPS. I remember back when I first started and going through Coils, there was the AOS Sphere that would spam AOE damage and you’d have to chain cast Medica just to keep everyone alive. Fun stuff like that should be more common for healer-based mechanics.
@@CubicleJ0ckey this is how WoW does it. Game has constant raid damage and HPS checks
" If i want complex damage rotations I can go play summoner" lmao
Hot take: I was a healer main in SWTOR and Secret World (Old, not legends). And honestly, I hate healin in FF14. Here you have to calculate how much HP your party can safely have without causeing a wipe, because of no sustained dmg.
If I want to dps, then maybe I would play a DPS job. If I play a healer, I dunno I want to HEAL! In SWTOR I liked healing, because it was different in the aspect then most of the fight I look at party members keeping them afloat, it is different, maybe when they are good I dish out 1-2 attack and back to healing (Had to space it out otherwise the game punishes you)
Here I look at it, they are full. I blink twice don't look at it for a few milliseconds, and either the tank is at 5% hp or the whole party is. 3 OGCD later everything is ok back to spamming 1. I'm a tank main in ff14 and I can't blame when the healers are asleep during encounters. Healing aspect is actually most engaging in dungeons, and especially Tower of Zot and Holmsterswitch because mobs are kinda overtuned.
That is why it is bizarre for me how players defend this "healer is a green dps". It shouldn't be. I'd rather keep myself engaged with targetting party members and dodging aoe's through out the encounter than spamming 1 through out the encounter.
In the other MMO's even if the others play perfectly you are still busy, most of the time. Here if everybody plays perfectly you rarely heal.
There is a reason why there is no dedicated HoT healer in this game (I play AST and that as close as you can get to that.) You would keep those up on the tank, and your CO healer becomes unnecessary, if it's a shield healer, shit your entire party would be always max health.
They could add an action to convert your current healing spells in damage spells and viceversa (like cleric stance but changing the effects of the spells themselves). That way you could use your entire kit just to DPS and if you need more healing spells because of a mistake or whatever you can convert them.
If there's one thing I wish it would be that healers buff allies like maybe a damage reduction skill that reflects damage for the tank and after healing half of someone's health maybe a damage boost instead of healers attacking as much something that makes healers as buffers ya know a thing supports should do.
I really wish healers had healing rotations that fed into bigger dps abilities. But boss design just doesn't support this at all, so it will remain my pipe dream.
Maybe if there were ogcd combos or class meter dps mechanics
Tbh, the only healer that has a healing rotation....somewhat is Scholar. The rest legit has one button to chonk heal at any given moment. I know Lustrate exists, but thats Aetherflow stacks being used and having to manage between cooldowns unless you gotta disapate...for some reason.
you mean like proccing SGE oxicon but into a RDM type combo, yea that would be sick af,
@@StealthMaster5k Yeah there's a TON you can do with it. I mostly come from playing Holy Paladin in recent wow expansions (lmao wow bad game).
But it's a really interesting approach, hpal is a melee healer, where they have a healing button and a damage button that they basically spam. Each of those buttons give a resource that can be spent on large heals or a little damage.
Best comparison was if broil gave you aetherflow, which you could then spend on heals or energy drain the same way. However WoW fight design swings way more towards constant damage you need to heal, so it almost all goes into healing.
But it's that sort of mixing of the two kits and back and forth that feels really good.
White Mage and Sage already have something like that with Misery and Toxicon, they just need to give the other healers something like that, and make it a little more involved
I discovered your channel from Asmongolds react video, and boy do I love your videos. I'm especially loving this villain arc.
ouh that intro surprised me... how did you find contrast in this game's enviroment? o.o
As a healer main: how did you crawl into my head and voice literally every complaint I've ever had about the game?!
When will SE learn that bad players will never "get it"? Catering to them will singlehandedly destroy the game
no kidding, they literally talk about learning from wow but arguably the major thing that started the slide on wow was the massive pruning of every single remotely interesting ability, talents, any kind of choice at all, all got streamlined down to REEEEE THIS IS THE META GOTO ICYVEINS/NOXX OR GET KICKED. EVERY utility or flavor ability gone like eyes of the beast(let hunters control their pet for fun or scouting), eagle eye(let you look around at a distant point you could target), all the various warlock debuffs so it was only purely REEEEE DAMAGE! HAVING TO DEBUFF ENEMIES BASED ON WHAT RESISTANCES THEY HAVE IS TOO DIFFICULT FOR AVERAGE ANDYS! dumbed down the game massively, then at the same time some how for some reason mainly only focused on endgame.... dumbing the game down massively+focusing on hard end game stuff = bad dead game lol
It hasn't destroyed it yet
I didn't understand at first, but now I know. The chair is misshapen bc of the shear density of sarcasm forming its own gravitational mass. Thx for the vid. I have no opinion on the state of healers, I just enjoy laughing.
Years later, and this video suddenly popped in my mind. It's still so painfully accurate.
And now we're seeing more healers quitting on Dawntrail because they're just so tired and done.
as a SCH main, I was super happy with the changes to SMN....because it filled me with the innocent hope that they were opening the door for SCH to become the DOT class again, and give me back my bane = .=. dot management was what drew me to SCH in the first place. maybe someday....
I definitely think XIV Combo should be an option, especially for controller users. There's very little skill expression in pressing 1 -> 2 -> 3 and it just takes up so much real estate on gamepad.
0:10 PLEASE CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHATS THE NAME OF THAT SCHOLAR WEP AND HOW TO GET IT PLS IM BEGGING
WHM: *Goes back to watering his blood lily...with the blood of his party members*
Looking at it slightly differently healers being the role that has less of a dps rotation is honestly a good thing for a lot of people. I personally really enjoy having a easy to use rotation while focusing more on other factors (Party health and oGCD healing) to keep myself engaged. If someone wants a healer that presses a lot of buttons astro fits that pretty well atm as well, even if their "main damage" is still the dot and single button. The other issue that could come up with having a healer with a full rotation is the amount of buttons they have, because having the full rotation plus a full healing kit would be more than any current job. This is all assuming current boss design stays as is.
Astro is missing some quality of life adjustments, but I agree it's pretty close to reaching that threshold of DPS engagement (busyness? idk what term to use) that a lot of players are looking for.
Lord/lady card split is a good step forward for example but awkward since you generally are fishing for lord. If it was reworked to instead be a second set of cards for random DPS spells that could be cool
@@starseeker1829 lord and lady sucks literally the worst mechanic they could’ve brought back from stormblood except for auto attack ninki gain
Healing is overpowered in most content because it has to be. There are enough bad tanks in the game that don't use their mitigation, make stupid decisions like making the healer lose line of sight right before the healer finishes a heal cast, or doesn't dodge aoe because they think they can tank like they do in WoW where dodging aoe doesn't exist for them. It is tanks like these that will make you learn to appreciate the healing role for it's existence and teach you to get good at weaving heals in between each cast of Broil IV.
I feel like I could say the same thing about tanks, except instead of only hitting one button it's only hitting three buttons and then maybe hitting a few ogcd's when you hit a point during a big pull or boss fight, all the while you're just hitting mitigations when needed.
What shoes are you wearing at the start?
I had healers that couldn't keep up on healing with the normal mode of Zodiark last night. Both in level 90 gear.
My only thought was... 'How?'
semi unrelated but also a nightmare experience with a healer lol- i'll never ever forget the nightmarish run of SoS ex with this god awful healer(can't remember her class), this actual 2 brain cell woman WIPED US FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOUR AND A HALF OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on the METEORS THAT YOU SIMPLY STACK FOR AT THE BEGINNING..... FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!! i was main tanking she was of course my partnet, i was like dude DO NOT FREAKING MOVE I WILL COME TO YOU!!!! she would stand there, i'd stack, she'd run to where i was... EVERY SINGLE TIME FOR FOUR AND A HALF HOURS AS EVERYONE WAS TELLING HER TO STOP MOVING..... it's insane how bad some people are
I am sorry for your lost.
As someone who 'mains' healing. It really isn't that hard. It's mostly, positioning, stay alive, and keep others alive.
Listening to others is a skill that is very helpful in the game. And paying attention and learning from mistakes.
Glad to see another content creator point out how stupid and short-sighted the Regen/Barrier healer paradigm is. It's super aggravating that the healer role fundamentally fails at basic game design (something I pointed it out in my own healer video). When your game has a feature that rewards mastery with boredom, the concept needs to be scrapped and remade.
Good video as always that is refreshingly blunt with the very coddled playerbase.
Things I'd do to fix healers
In general
1. give them at least one damage rotation. Please, I don't like spamming the same button over and over again.
2.Have the lower level spells just upgrade to the better version. I'm not keeping Cure 1 on my hot bar when I get Cure 2
3. Make the classes distinct. I'll get into more detail
White mage could be a healer/buffer. The buffs the give are based on elements. Fire gives an attack boost, lightning raises crits, wind speeds up movement, and earth raises defense. The party can only have one of those buffs, but you should be cycling through them frequently. Maybe make the buffs short and back to back buffs become shorter to encourage cycling.
Scholars should be shields and debuffs. Give them multiple dots to maintain. The more you maintain them, the better they become. The healing fairy ( can't remember their names) helps maintain shields while the other can help maintain one dot. You could even have the dots slowly heal allies nearby.
Sage should be dps heal. Every hit should heal/shield the party. The bigger hits give better heals. Death by a thousand cuts essentially.
Astrologian could fill any of these rolls or all if they hate themselves. I'm not as knowledgeable for this class, so any suggestions for how that'll work would be cool. I assume the cards could do something with that.
I wonder what your thoughts are on the pvp healers?
It seems like the complete opposite. 1 or 2 healing buttons and all damage/utility.
Ya, they've drastically changed the heavy healing expected from the role in pvp... They were trying to remove role restrictions so it would be better to think of everything as dps or just role-less with slight sway in sustain, support, or healing.
@@TheTacetTroubadour yeah ik. I'm just wondering if some of that job design can spill over into pve.
Ofc you need aoe healing shielding and what not but give us some more damage options and utility stuff
Unironically I hate what they did to healers in PvP.
The whole "do nothing but spam heals" was actually viable in PvP, which is funny because everyone hated pvp.... but the *actual* healing fantasy was there because of how sporadic in pvp.
Literally, THE THING that people wish was in healer PvE (sporadic and unpredictable damage to the party to test your reflexes and triage capability) existed in the game mode most people hated.
Oh, no joke about it. You were thankful that you only had 4 damage buttons. They made or broke feast teams and could become a God in FL keeping 24 people alive
I thought sages original concept was being able to heal while doing dmg. It wouldve been sick to have and actual dmg rotation for healing with shielding ogcds, Yet it only has like 3 dmg buttons yhe barely heal and mostly shield and mit ogcds
What I hoped for sage: something like discipline priest from WoW
What we got: reskinned scholar
no kidding, the actual heals that come from scholars dmg are the most pathetic piss poor excuses for "heals" i've ever seen in a game, infinitely worse than regen, and is calculated and seems exactly like just putting a HoT on them, it's not based on damage at all it's based purely on "reee 130 potency on cast", they said it'd be like disc priest from wow and you'd heal by doing damage..... i guess TECHNICALLY that is true, a tiny piss proc procs when a heal is finished casting, but that is not coming from the damage, and obviously certainly doesn't scale on the damage done... such a massive missed opportunity because "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LETS KEEP EVERYTHING THE SAME! WE CAN'T MAKE ANYTHING MORE DIFFICULT OR THE 2 BRAIN CELL ANDYS THAT CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO LEARN THEIR CLASS OR FIGHTS AND ACTIVELY WASTE 7 OTHER PEOPLE'S TIMES MIGHT BE UPSET AND MIGHT BE TO AFRAID TO TRY DO HARD CONTENT(aka be carried through hard content)"
I wonder what players would think of if healers had to heal constantly and manage mana with cure 1 saving cure 2 for tank hits or adding procs to all classes in some way so you're not doing the same exact rotation no matter what.
Going from Stormblood to Casualbringers was painful as a main healer, they demolished my boy SCH (removed Miasma, Miasma2 and Shadowflare, heck they even removed Energy Drain for a bit, luckly they re-added it)
and they completely, utterly murdred AST, the old "Time Dilation / Celestial Opposition" astro was just amazing, it could have been a bit too powerful, but you had so many options and was just amazing, I have never touched it again since they destroyed it
Yes, all of this. I used to really enjoy playing healers now I stay far away. I don't want to smash one button. It's so weird they don't fix this. the better people get at scripted predictable content the less healing is needed so then what do you do? Spam your single target dps button. I'm still subbed for my house but im considering just ditching it
I kind of need a citation for the healer numbers. By my understanding from census numbers, there are significantly more players leveling and gearing their healers in the last two expansion than ARR/HW/SB. Even if you account the growth of the base, it's still solid improvement.
Which is what SE, at the end of the day, wants to see the most.
Healing should feel fun for majority of players, not balancing classes and roles around ~1% of players that play the game as a second job is a normal thing and I don't get why people are complaining.
I have been saying these exact same things since right before Stormblood released. (Except for Ast, I don't really play it so idk)
When someone says "healers should have more interesting dps rotations", replying with "I wish healing itself was harder instead of their dps rotations" is the equivalent of dismissing any criticism about anything with "but there are hungry children in Africa, why aren't you mad about that, huh?" It adds nothing to the conversation and is extremely tone deaf. Why point to a bigger, exponentially more difficult problem when the problem in front of you isn't that hard to fix? All it serves to do is derail any argument about healers in this game.
It has also been really frustrating to see bigger content creators (who have the opportunity to communicate with the devs directly) ignore criticisms of healers when they are about the dps rotations. It seems like none of them feel passionately about this so the issues get ignored.
Another disgusting thought: I once made the mistake of going to the Japanese forums (I understand Japanese but I'm not familiar with lingo specific to this game). There are so many posts about how healers are/should be for "princesses". Lots of people seem to believe that "girls play/should play healers" and also "girls like to be/should be pampered and carried through content". I saw these comments a long time ago, and when I checked recently, it hadn't changed much. So now, playing healers feels extra disgusting, and hearing "healers should heal more" sounds like "go make me a sandwich". When you realize that such a sexist thought process exists, additions like WHM lilies, Temperence wings, Seraph etc. suddenly feel VERY different.
Bruh.
I'm trying to level my PLD right now, but all the healers assume I have self healing right out of the box like DRK and WAR and are letting me die. Feels bad.
man i miss aoe dots on summoner , how did they remove that
What's always bothered me is that everyone seems perfectly content with healers having so few damage buttons. If 85% of all tank's abilities were damage reducing cooldowns, there would be a RIOT, but for some reason they think its okay for healers. its infuriating.
The difference is boss is stripted, player isn't,
Boss will always use raid wide damage or tankbuster regardless your tank performance, and tank mitigation only use in said raid wide damage/tankbuster but not outside of those.
Player however, unless is trust, player you have in every boss/raid encounter will be DIFFERENT than the previous one. If player did boss mechanic correctly? No healing needed. If player failes to do boss mechanic? Ready your healz and ressez because you are in big trouble now.
Last but not least, are player in your next encounter gonna act as same as the player in your previous encounter? Nah
We only need 2 emergency heal; a Cure II analogue and a Medica analogue.
So just 2 more buttons than tanks have.
I main AST. There's plenty I don't like about AST. But I do think that them having damage boosts to dole out to break up the malefic spam is a good idea in principle.
Because (and let me preface this by saying that yes, I DO dps as a healer), when I play a healer, it's because I want to support a party. I dps because I HAVE to, not because I WANT to, and making the healers more focused on dps is the opposite of fixing that particular problem. Except maybe Sage, since "dps to heal" is basically what they sold the class as. That one's fair.
Also, since I seem to have caught a case of evil from you, let me add this: I am SICK of people making videos smugly telling everyone, "a healer is ACSHUALLY just another dps". As if that itself isn't fucking stupid. If everyone started telling you you HAD to offheal with Vercure or Clemency, people who played those jobs would lose their shit because that is NOT why they picked them. But healers who don't WANT to dps? "Eat shit, that's just how it is."
Anyway: still a pretty good video, with some real good points.
For AST, all I wanted (besides seeing cards with interesting properties return, which I knew we'd never get) was to be able to switch Sect in combat. I had quite a few times where I'd get into a trial and the battle would start and I realized I clicked the wrong sect (e.g. going Nocturnal when we had a SCH as the other healer). It would've been cool to be able to swap in action based on what was needed -- you know, kind of like what AST has always had an element of. You could even have it be on GCD so it's not "the perfect healer," and to encourage people to pick the proper sect ahead of time.
Going off the "Two shield and two pure healers" symmetry, I was actually hoping that when they introduced Sage that they were going to turn healing into a bit of a spectrum, with AST and Sage being somewhere near the middle and WHM and SCH being the extremes. While I'd like to say that they "sort of" did this, I really can't justify that when WHM, what is supposed to be the pure healer, has its own shields (and got another charge of it in EW), making the few shield opportunities that AST still has not nearly enough to place it near the middle of the "healing spectrum."
Phlegma is literally just melee range Miasma 2 that SCH had in Stormblood. The button you used instead of Ruin 2 to weave if you had MP to spare and were good enough to stay in melee range. Phlegma doesn't benefit weaving much now since cast times are all 1.5s but it still rewards you for being close to the boss.
“Begging for something to to wrong” Is me!!! I love playing healer, but eagerly await a near-wipe. So boring otherwise.
5:08 is some harsh truth they need to realize. Re: DPS, what is insane to me is the healers have the exact same 1 button spam from level 4 to level 90. In any other role that would be absolutely unacceptable. Healers are "rewarded" by playing well with. . . boring gameplay.
Went from samurai to sage one day and the absolute whiplash was so potent that my head nearly detached from my body
The last minute of this had me choking I laughed so hard. Well done.
Healers were at their peak in Stormblood, change my mind
*Heavensward
ARR*
I agree, to me SB was the perfect balance of "you have multiple things to manage" and "the dps rotations are approachable to casual players." people will jack off over HW sch when it honestly just seems needlessly convoluted to me.
*burning crusade
@@loganagain4942 LMAO
yes, yes, more dots for sch! give them all the dots that were removed from smn! give them old tridisaster and bane!
then if people want to play a dot caster, they can play sch instead of crying about smn being "ruined"
I mean ive been leveling healer all through msq from 1-70 and ive had the most fun with ast because there i just more for me to be doing. feels like they should either give healers a bit of a rotation because fuck me does spamming q for mallefic get boring fast...
@1:53 The synchronization of his rant and visual has achieved some kind of ASMR effect for me. A misshapen ASMR, if you will.
Macrocosmos is my favorite ability in any MMO. I have saved my raid with a full heal from 10% and that shit feels so good
Man, i feel like the act of healing itself needs to be more fun, id like healing that feeds into my DPS if im going to DPS. Things like addersting and Lilies show this albeit in a very very simple way. If there were more uses for these meters/If the kits were revolved around healing feeding into dps which fed back into healing, id be interested. One of my problems with scholar despite it being the most interesting for me, is the fact that there are two gauges, just make it one gauge and have the gauge replenish/deplete based on your abilities that your incentivized for interacting with. I dont need a rotation necessarily, I dont need a combo; I need a reason to even heal/ output more damage in the first place other than just “make boss die quicker” and “prevent the mentor from getting mad at you”