Only reason I would use Alloy on the outer most layer is Alloy looks nicer than Metal However its better to save any Alloy you use for internal bulk heading.
My satellite uses alloy exterior then spaced hm interior panel. The only weapons that can survive the lams to hit it are pac or laser but just in case. Not that enemies have long to hit it. My explosive pacs delete turrets especially if I alpha strike with them. One jeat trick for armoring flyers is use helium pumps. Be a hybrid baloon. Even in space.
Loved the tutorial, it really made me see that I was thinking small. I was trying to take on the Abactor with a sub 1k blocks ship and having a really hard time with the defence on that one. I guess I should go big or go home with the armoring. Thanks for the tip!
Use HE torpedoes against anything traveling on water. Explosions are weakened by air a lot. In other words, water amplifies explosion damage. What i want to say is: Putting vital components beneath the waterline is a weakness against torpedoes.
I tried testing the ERA you showed at the start of the video, but it doesn't work at all once the HESH shockwave starts it cannot be prevented anymore. It just explodes out of the ERA and does the same damage. (Aside from the AP value.)
HEAT is the better shell and it's much more dangerous, however HESH is hard to defend against, but if they hit the era directly they will explode before causing damage, thankfully with spaced armour and bulk the HESH fragments have a very low chance of damaging anything important.
Technically a citadel is an armored box within the hull of the ship where all the important bits are. Your method showcased in the prefab hull especially is more akin to "all or nothing" armor theory that is some what confusingly named as it implies that we either armor the entire ship or none of it but in practice it does exactly what you did in the video, leaving out unimportant bits while strengthening the valuable ones.
I think I read somewhere about this not too long ago and yes, citadel should then be a type of all or nothing armour and for smaller ships this is usually always the case. Anyhow citadel theory might be the word everyone is throwing around ^^
Unless you want to use this for tournaments or publish it for workshop I'd recommend to get the increased slope variety mod. You can make amazing bow shapes with it. I especially like it for realistic battleshil builds but they are also great for unrealistic designs like flying saucers or anything really.
@@chickenpurple6704 man shurup I was stupid back then. Now i use angled heavy armor and line the inside with angled heavy armor, and then put ship on wheels or legs
Because thump and explosive damage ignore stacking blocks with a high armor value are especially good against them. Because of this I like an outer HA metal layer. Both for aesthetics and because metal in front of HA essentially gives a very solid armor of about 60 to the outer belt. This means HE and thump which are the most common warheads in missiles will do less damage and put a much smaller hole in the armor. While checkerboard wood metal or metal stone is excellent for armor stacking if the enemy has sufficient penetration that stacking becomes useless. And it's usually for this reason I frontload the armor and put squishier stuff behind it. And anything that makes it through likely has the penetration to cut right through armor My last battleship armor scheme Metal -> HA -> Beamslope Metal -> Metal -> 6m wood ---> 2m HA citadel An external strike face to deal with HE damage and thump damage. Though I am concerned the metal outer gives the HE a "surrounded" damage bonus The beamslope comes first to maximize the armor stacking and reduce weight. If it were a beam -> slope, not only would it not act as an airgap but the armor stacking wouldn't be uniform across. After this it's a bunch of buoyant and cheap blocks to weaken and catch additional damage on the cheap before it gets to the citadel. My ships are heavily compartmentalized and I use that airgap to further weaken shells before it gets to the citadel.
Hey! funny seeing you here, last you commented it was probably ACE gmod stuff right? HA is the best protection against explosives and thump as you say, but they are too expensive to use against that, better is bulk, so having a say an onion with wooden boards to keep the explosion away from anything important, remember that 1m of ha cost the same as 25m of wood. While it might be tempting to use ha to reduce surface scratches, maybe only do that on turrets, I'd go for really thick metal or even lots of stone for a better cheaper protection against explosive and thump if you don't wanna do an thin exterior shell of throw away armour out of metal and wood, or only wood.
@gmodism Yeah! It's been a while. I think the last time we talked was during your FTD tournaments. But it's been good. Glad to see you're doing well and neat to see how far you've come. Anyway 1 beam of metal roughly translates to 5 beams of metal in both cost and weight for more armor, albeit with a little less health. Ideally you wouldn't want to use HA at all except where it can lever edge its advantages, where you need space, or simply don't have a choice. It is less health and weight efficient compared to metal. And against projectiles with more than enough AP to full pen you'll be significantly worse off. Which is why I put it in front. Because chances are anything that makes it through the belt has enough pen to plow through anyway. And sometimes even 5 meters of HA won't stop it. You're effectively gating the weaker shells from eating your buoyant blocks and making the most of your armor whenever you can. As for HE, this is one of the perfect situations to use HA's armor. because the mitigation from armor to HE is exponentially less with the small fraction of AP it has and the best way to mitigate it is more armor. you really would want to use it there so the HE does a fraction of the damage it might otherwise do
Apologies, my bad on the stacking. I just did a quick retest. Armor appears to actually in fact take stacking into account despite what the armor tool says, wiki, and reddit has said. But this is even more of a case to use Heavy Armor. And it's absolutely exponential the weaker the explosion. And it'll either be on par with metal against large explosions or significantly better against weaker ones It's the difference between taking a single layer of stone taking 4950 damage to versus a layer of heavy armor taking 180 damage Though HA has about 3x the armor it translates to 3.6% of the damage I'll post some more in depth results on the server
Well, nobody that knows what they are doing will use explosive only, but it is true that you must use HA and alloy for almost every compact design, when building really large however.. not so much. I guess there are different styles of making things are there, but, covering things with HA is something many people do when discovering the game only to realize after some year that it's just not worth the cost, look at the secret advisers insane papemache dif gun things for example. Yes you are right one of the tourneys we spoke a bit, barely remember but I answer like 20 comments a day so do forgive me
@@GMODISM Aye, no worries, I understand you have a lot to do and are busy with all sorts of stuff. But yeah. It's still a very varied armor type designed to deal with different shells in different areas. The face hardening just helps to defeat a handful of them from the get-go such as the majority of damage done with missiles. And does so in an extremely cost effective method. It doesn't particularly hinder the armor and helps protect the buoyant blocks meant to absorb the bulk of any piercing damage. It's on a cost effective battleship after all and that 1 meter only presents a fraction of the armor.
like for example i can build stuff that kills every craft in the game, but idk how to make them cost less than my oppent or equal, theres always 10 to 20% more cost in my stuff
....so using my material crates and ammo boxes like armor for my steam engine is a bad idea yes?😅 well good thing that design didnt get past the testing phase
Armor was fine untill the gap Wasteful use of era, it's not worth using on the belt, and the way it's configured just makes it get destroyed for no benefit. Rest of the gap is fine, though I believe beamslopes are generally better. And stone is absolute garbage there, alloy would be significantly more beneficial with it's lack of weight and bouiancy. Also at 7:05 why the frick are you recommending vshaped hulls, the base armor is plenty you don't need your exterior layer of armor to be made from blocks less effective against hollow point/chemical shells. And I find an armor scheme closer to Would generally just take up less space and be more efficient in 99% of circumstances I've found 8:11 not really worth it to use rubber on detec components, given this is on a superstrucute or some form of above water hull, alloy has some emp resistance which can to at least some extent push emp surges towards surge protectors, also using rubber there just weakness that armor plate more than it already is being weakened. 8:47 Ideas right untill you realize your protecting ai blocks. Main thing you want to protect against is emp, so you put your emp protection(rubber) touching the ai since rubber needs the protection from ha and this overall minimized the chance of the ha being stripped off and an emp surge coming in and ai deading your craft. 9:42 heat/hesh can punch tough those poles and sneak into the main armor scheme, though ig it's fixable via using something like slopes or wedges. 10:55. Defeats the purpose of armor stacking, you either have no meaningful stacking on the wood since it's y'know wood, and the metal is just weaker since wood gives so little ac in stacking. 17:32 just put your ammo into ha boxes and it shouldn't chain detonate -_- 18:32 single blocks around ammo..... Really .... I probably missed other mistakes but that's beside the point, def not the worst I've seen but some major critical mistakes were made TLDR don't overcomplicate armor,
"Also at 7:05 why the frick are you recommending vshaped hulls, the base armor is plenty you don't need your exterior layer of armor to be made from blocks less effective against hollow point/chemical shells. And I find an armor scheme closer to Would generally just take up less space and be more efficient in 99% of circumstances I've found" Because not everything has to be an unappealing borg cube?
![ค้างคืนโรงเก็บกระสวยอวกาศร้างกลางทะเลทราย [Around The World Ep. 3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E5bWZQhABJE/mqdefault.jpg)
The successor with aesthetical design and shaping is here: th-cam.com/video/hldEQS1n6o0/w-d-xo.html
6:40
Useful tip: Sabot head rounds take 75% less damage penalty from angled armor.
I believe that the first thing here that was said: metal on the exterior, I honestly find it more resilient than exterior alloy and more effective
Yes Exterior Metal is so much better than alloy, alloy is good if metal just is too heavy, like for airships and stull ;)
Metal isn't heavy enough for airships, just ask the eerie back in the day
Only reason I would use Alloy on the outer most layer is Alloy looks nicer than Metal
However its better to save any Alloy you use for internal bulk heading.
My satellite uses alloy exterior then spaced hm interior panel. The only weapons that can survive the lams to hit it are pac or laser but just in case. Not that enemies have long to hit it. My explosive pacs delete turrets especially if I alpha strike with them. One jeat trick for armoring flyers is use helium pumps. Be a hybrid baloon. Even in space.
Loved the tutorial, it really made me see that I was thinking small. I was trying to take on the Abactor with a sub 1k blocks ship and having a really hard time with the defence on that one. I guess I should go big or go home with the armoring. Thanks for the tip!
Glad I could help! More info in the armour tutorials too if you need :)
Use HE torpedoes against anything traveling on water. Explosions are weakened by air a lot. In other words, water amplifies explosion damage.
What i want to say is: Putting vital components beneath the waterline is a weakness against torpedoes.
Looking at the airgap, im reminded of the asteroid trap geometry thingy
I actually filled empty space on my most armored vehicle with Wood slopes flanked by Rubber. It works suprisingly well, even without any air gaps
I tried testing the ERA you showed at the start of the video, but it doesn't work at all once the HESH shockwave starts it cannot be prevented anymore. It just explodes out of the ERA and does the same damage. (Aside from the AP value.)
HEAT is the better shell and it's much more dangerous, however HESH is hard to defend against, but if they hit the era directly they will explode before causing damage, thankfully with spaced armour and bulk the HESH fragments have a very low chance of damaging anything important.
Technically a citadel is an armored box within the hull of the ship where all the important bits are. Your method showcased in the prefab hull especially is more akin to "all or nothing" armor theory that is some what confusingly named as it implies that we either armor the entire ship or none of it but in practice it does exactly what you did in the video, leaving out unimportant bits while strengthening the valuable ones.
I think I read somewhere about this not too long ago and yes, citadel should then be a type of all or nothing armour and for smaller ships this is usually always the case. Anyhow citadel theory might be the word everyone is throwing around ^^
Unless you want to use this for tournaments or publish it for workshop I'd recommend to get the increased slope variety mod. You can make amazing bow shapes with it. I especially like it for realistic battleshil builds but they are also great for unrealistic designs like flying saucers or anything really.
Yeah it looks awesome! But I publish most things on the workshop!
I have better idea 1. Make ship out of heavy armor 2. Line inside with rubber 3. Place balloons untill ship float :)
That’s called brute forcing
Instead of balloons I would recommend using the helium generator blocks and alloy as an interior block
Heavy armor is definitely not invincible
@@chickenpurple6704 man shurup I was stupid back then. Now i use angled heavy armor and line the inside with angled heavy armor, and then put ship on wheels or legs
Could you make a tutorial about ramming craft? (Spinblock ones, piston ones, both airborne and water based) ive been struggling to make one myself
Good idea! I add that to the big bad list!
Summary:
Use all or nothing and turtleback armor schemes together for best armor design.
You have been playing world of warships if I'm not mistaken ^^
@@GMODISM nope i just like to use real life hull designs and armor layout for inspiration
Solid tutorial, thank you.
Welcome
all these squares make hulls..all these squares make hulls all these squares make hulls. HOW WHY ARE THE LEGO PIECES SO DIFFICULT TO PUT TOGETHERNESS!
well, that's why we have the aesthetic guide too ! th-cam.com/video/hldEQS1n6o0/w-d-xo.html
Holly crap the armor values on stuff now lol
Now AC actually equals AP, to make calculations simple :)
No armor best armor, no need for armor if you never get hit.
Stay fast and confuse enemy detection systems
Because thump and explosive damage ignore stacking blocks with a high armor value are especially good against them.
Because of this I like an outer HA metal layer. Both for aesthetics and because metal in front of HA essentially gives a very solid armor of about 60 to the outer belt.
This means HE and thump which are the most common warheads in missiles will do less damage and put a much smaller hole in the armor.
While checkerboard wood metal or metal stone is excellent for armor stacking if the enemy has sufficient penetration that stacking becomes useless. And it's usually for this reason I frontload the armor and put squishier stuff behind it. And anything that makes it through likely has the penetration to cut right through armor
My last battleship armor scheme Metal -> HA -> Beamslope Metal -> Metal -> 6m wood ---> 2m HA citadel
An external strike face to deal with HE damage and thump damage. Though I am concerned the metal outer gives the HE a "surrounded" damage bonus
The beamslope comes first to maximize the armor stacking and reduce weight. If it were a beam -> slope, not only would it not act as an airgap but the armor stacking wouldn't be uniform across.
After this it's a bunch of buoyant and cheap blocks to weaken and catch additional damage on the cheap before it gets to the citadel.
My ships are heavily compartmentalized and I use that airgap to further weaken shells before it gets to the citadel.
Hey! funny seeing you here, last you commented it was probably ACE gmod stuff right?
HA is the best protection against explosives and thump as you say, but they are too expensive to use against that, better is bulk, so having a say an onion with wooden boards to keep the explosion away from anything important, remember that 1m of ha cost the same as 25m of wood.
While it might be tempting to use ha to reduce surface scratches, maybe only do that on turrets, I'd go for really thick metal or even lots of stone for a better cheaper protection against explosive and thump if you don't wanna do an thin exterior shell of throw away armour out of metal and wood, or only wood.
@gmodism Yeah! It's been a while.
I think the last time we talked was during your FTD tournaments. But it's been good.
Glad to see you're doing well and neat to see how far you've come.
Anyway
1 beam of metal roughly translates to 5 beams of metal in both cost and weight for more armor, albeit with a little less health.
Ideally you wouldn't want to use HA at all except where it can lever edge its advantages, where you need space, or simply don't have a choice.
It is less health and weight efficient compared to metal.
And against projectiles with more than enough AP to full pen you'll be significantly worse off.
Which is why I put it in front. Because chances are anything that makes it through the belt has enough pen to plow through anyway. And sometimes even 5 meters of HA won't stop it. You're effectively gating the weaker shells from eating your buoyant blocks and making the most of your armor whenever you can.
As for HE, this is one of the perfect situations to use HA's armor.
because the mitigation from armor to HE is exponentially less with the small fraction of AP it has and the best way to mitigate it is more armor.
you really would want to use it there so the HE does a fraction of the damage it might otherwise do
Apologies, my bad on the stacking. I just did a quick retest.
Armor appears to actually in fact take stacking into account despite what the armor tool says, wiki, and reddit has said.
But this is even more of a case to use Heavy Armor. And it's absolutely exponential the weaker the explosion. And it'll either be on par with metal against large explosions or significantly better against weaker ones
It's the difference between taking a single layer of stone taking 4950 damage to versus a layer of heavy armor taking 180 damage
Though HA has about 3x the armor it translates to 3.6% of the damage
I'll post some more in depth results on the server
Well, nobody that knows what they are doing will use explosive only, but it is true that you must use HA and alloy for almost every compact design, when building really large however.. not so much. I guess there are different styles of making things are there, but, covering things with HA is something many people do when discovering the game only to realize after some year that it's just not worth the cost, look at the secret advisers insane papemache dif gun things for example.
Yes you are right one of the tourneys we spoke a bit, barely remember but I answer like 20 comments a day so do forgive me
@@GMODISM Aye, no worries, I understand you have a lot to do and are busy with all sorts of stuff.
But yeah. It's still a very varied armor type designed to deal with different shells in different areas.
The face hardening just helps to defeat a handful of them from the get-go such as the majority of damage done with missiles. And does so in an extremely cost effective method.
It doesn't particularly hinder the armor and helps protect the buoyant blocks meant to absorb the bulk of any piercing damage.
It's on a cost effective battleship after all and that 1 meter only presents a fraction of the armor.
sometimes ill have my guns set to target underwater if they use HEAT shells, because they can hit components easier that way
How did you get that cut through of the ship?
END key ;)
Nice!
we ever gonna see advanced tutorials? like really in depth style
Like in depths instant tutorials or my long form hour tutorials?
Also give me some suggestions on what you would wanna see :)
@@GMODISM yeah basicly u make tutorials for new players, any tutos for players that have mastered the basics or more?
like for example i can build stuff that kills every craft in the game, but idk how to make them cost less than my oppent or equal, theres always 10 to 20% more cost in my stuff
How to destroy anything. Giant cram with drag and explosives
....so using my material crates and ammo boxes like armor for my steam engine is a bad idea yes?😅 well good thing that design didnt get past the testing phase
Yes its a bad idea and will make you loose, better to allow an engine to be killed and just have a backup
Holf 😂
Armor was fine untill the gap
Wasteful use of era, it's not worth using on the belt, and the way it's configured just makes it get destroyed for no benefit.
Rest of the gap is fine, though I believe beamslopes are generally better.
And stone is absolute garbage there, alloy would be significantly more beneficial with it's lack of weight and bouiancy.
Also at 7:05 why the frick are you recommending vshaped hulls, the base armor is plenty you don't need your exterior layer of armor to be made from blocks less effective against hollow point/chemical shells.
And I find an armor scheme closer to Would generally just take up less space and be more efficient in 99% of circumstances I've found
8:11 not really worth it to use rubber on detec components, given this is on a superstrucute or some form of above water hull, alloy has some emp resistance which can to at least some extent push emp surges towards surge protectors, also using rubber there just weakness that armor plate more than it already is being weakened.
8:47
Ideas right untill you realize your protecting ai blocks. Main thing you want to protect against is emp, so you put your emp protection(rubber) touching the ai since rubber needs the protection from ha and this overall minimized the chance of the ha being stripped off and an emp surge coming in and ai deading your craft.
9:42 heat/hesh can punch tough those poles and sneak into the main armor scheme, though ig it's fixable via using something like slopes or wedges.
10:55. Defeats the purpose of armor stacking, you either have no meaningful stacking on the wood since it's y'know wood, and the metal is just weaker since wood gives so little ac in stacking.
17:32 just put your ammo into ha boxes and it shouldn't chain detonate -_-
18:32 single blocks around ammo..... Really ....
I probably missed other mistakes but that's beside the point, def not the worst I've seen but some major critical mistakes were made
TLDR don't overcomplicate armor,
"Also at 7:05 why the frick are you recommending vshaped hulls, the base armor is plenty you don't need your exterior layer of armor to be made from blocks less effective against hollow point/chemical shells.
And I find an armor scheme closer to Would generally just take up less space and be more efficient in 99% of circumstances I've found"
Because not everything has to be an unappealing borg cube?