A somewhat lesser known fact is that mixing different amounts of clips can cause desync and actually decrease firerate in a gun. Pretty much you always want the same amount of clips per autoloader in the gun. In addition to this, there are certain firerates that are better than others due to the physics tick rate within game.
@@xiqy1959 For which part? - the firerate is for in game physics tickrate and only comes into play when you're really trying to optimize something, the other is just because different amounts of clips reload differently - if you look at in game craft, you'll notice that all of them are built with the same amount of clips per loader across the gun
@xiqy1959 the clip count mixing does something like this, for example: if you have a 1-clip and a 2-clip loader, the first loads in half the time, the second loads in one third the time. In total, this should allow you to fire 5 shells in one loading cycle. if you build your gun to that metric, then your cooling/rail charging allows you to fire one shell every 0.2 of a cycle. What happens is if you fire once at 0.0 and again at 0.2, if the one-clip loaded first, it isn't ready until 0.5 and the two-clip is ready at 0.533. Since you can't fire at 0.4, your cooling is wasted, and you can't fire again until 0.7 even when the other loader was ready for 0.167 of the cycle, wasting its output. This limits you to firing 4 shells in a cycle when you would have wanted 5. Similar things happen the other way around or if you mix other amounts of clips, but not mixing clip count gets rid of this issue.
@@BorderWise12 Build two guns with identical autoloader and cooling RPMs, with one having mixed clip count and one with even clip count See if the even one fires at a constant rate and if the mixed one ever deviates from it
i didnt know railguns where emp-proof now! that might actually convince me to make them more now. edit: HE sticks with armor piercing caps are surprisingly good! Bungalowbill made an airship that uses those aphe sticks in tandom with railguns, theres a whole series he made on youtube about it
Did you consider looking into mixed loadout guns? I've been experimenting with mixing shield disruptor\emp shells with my other shells to weaken shields. Plus, fast firing guns don't nees to fire a tracer with every shot to maintain accuracy bonus, so having a supercavitstion base on the other shots makes the gun double as anti sub while not messing with projectile speed. Fitting it alongside base bleeders is more difficult, as I'm pretty sure the shells need to be of similar speed.
Shell speed only matters if the fire rate is fast, because the gun needs to re-aim to account for the leading and bullet drop. The other potential issue is having shells that take a longer time to load for a similar reason to different numbers of clips on autoladers messing with the fire rate.
I personally prefer 3clip tetris because of space considerations and preferring small turrets. That being said my layouts aren't super space or material efficient because I tend to stack the loaders and expensive bits on one side of the turret and put metal beams and recoil absorbers on the enemy facing side.
You could try linear 4 clip Tetris, it should be easier to work with as it has Symmetry perpendicular to the lines of clips. and works by taking 3 clip tetris, adding an addition clip to the autoloaders and then meshing them together leaving a space you can fill with rail magnets, coolers or recoil absorbers. This is a diagram of it ( with + being autoloaders, with = and [] being clips and with 0 as the spare space. Traditional 4 clip - Inline 4 clip - =+=[][]=+=[] +=[]=+=[]=+ [][]=+=[][]=+ []=+=[]=+=[] +=[][]=+=[][] []0[]0[]0[]0[] []=+=[][]=+= +=[]=+=[]=+ =[][]=+=[][]= []=+=[]=+=[]
ive been doing this for ages the problem ive found is that you need an equal amount of recoil and railgun chargers so you generally have to do quite a bit of balancing
I am still having problems with calculations on APS balancing damage output and rapid fire. I wish devs would make a rotating turret block that could be used as a gauge or autoloader, it would make easier to make cannons.
con of 4 clip Tetris not very space efficient. then again I seem to be addicted to trying to make very small yet somewhat powerful aps. for reference I have a 20mm flak CWIS that fits in a 3/3/3 metal box. that has about 558 rpm. edit love belt feeders... when they work.
It is smth that can only be used on 1 meter autoloaders. You need to surround the 1 meter autoloader with 5 clips. Then, add inputs to make it have a t shape from above. It should be 2 by 3 by 3, in a box, with 4 three meter tall "blocks".
32:54 not like any Canadian accent I've ever heard... I've lived in Canada my whole life lol. The trick to doing a Canadian accent is a tight smile, don't move your lips, and speak as quickly as humanly possible. Also turn statements into questions with an eh? at the end. So you wanted to know how to do a Canadian accent. (statement) So you wanted to know how to do a Canadian accent eh? (question)
I just came up with an extremely funny idea. Unless you're making a railgun with 4 magnet attachments, you have at least 1 open slot to put an ammo loader directly on the firing piece, DIFF style. Using ACBs, you can turn it on to load a DIFF style max size shell if the enemy is within range to not miss horribly for a surpise HE to the face.
Man, last time I saw a BorderWise stream I made a joke about "CaMOOflage" on one of the ships that cracked everyone up. That's been a while.
I remember that! Good times! :D
I would love to see the 5-Clip Biblically Accurate Tetris explored in a video!
"brief tutorial"
Yeah, that was optimistic. XD
4 clip tetris is great for a largish 3 barrel turret, makes the maths real easy
I need to get back into making railguns... Been going the simple route and using just plain old gunpowder.
A somewhat lesser known fact is that mixing different amounts of clips can cause desync and actually decrease firerate in a gun. Pretty much you always want the same amount of clips per autoloader in the gun. In addition to this, there are certain firerates that are better than others due to the physics tick rate within game.
Is this an issue of pc performance or game coding? Bc literally all my ships are like this
@@xiqy1959 For which part? - the firerate is for in game physics tickrate and only comes into play when you're really trying to optimize something, the other is just because different amounts of clips reload differently - if you look at in game craft, you'll notice that all of them are built with the same amount of clips per loader across the gun
@xiqy1959 the clip count mixing does something like this, for example:
if you have a 1-clip and a 2-clip loader, the first loads in half the time, the second loads in one third the time. In total, this should allow you to fire 5 shells in one loading cycle. if you build your gun to that metric, then your cooling/rail charging allows you to fire one shell every 0.2 of a cycle. What happens is if you fire once at 0.0 and again at 0.2, if the one-clip loaded first, it isn't ready until 0.5 and the two-clip is ready at 0.533. Since you can't fire at 0.4, your cooling is wasted, and you can't fire again until 0.7 even when the other loader was ready for 0.167 of the cycle, wasting its output. This limits you to firing 4 shells in a cycle when you would have wanted 5.
Similar things happen the other way around or if you mix other amounts of clips, but not mixing clip count gets rid of this issue.
@@kazoo3354 Is there a way to test this?
@@BorderWise12 Build two guns with identical autoloader and cooling RPMs, with one having mixed clip count and one with even clip count
See if the even one fires at a constant rate and if the mixed one ever deviates from it
i didnt know railguns where emp-proof now! that might actually convince me to make them more now.
edit: HE sticks with armor piercing caps are surprisingly good! Bungalowbill made an airship that uses those aphe sticks in tandom with railguns, theres a whole series he made on youtube about it
Did you consider looking into mixed loadout guns? I've been experimenting with mixing shield disruptor\emp shells with my other shells to weaken shields.
Plus, fast firing guns don't nees to fire a tracer with every shot to maintain accuracy bonus, so having a supercavitstion base on the other shots makes the gun double as anti sub while not messing with projectile speed. Fitting it alongside base bleeders is more difficult, as I'm pretty sure the shells need to be of similar speed.
I have done that before, yes! You do have to plan ahead a bit better than I usually do to get good results with that, though.
Shell speed only matters if the fire rate is fast, because the gun needs to re-aim to account for the leading and bullet drop. The other potential issue is having shells that take a longer time to load for a similar reason to different numbers of clips on autoladers messing with the fire rate.
From my experience you don't need to emp proof the the bottom of the range finder as long as the center is covered.
I personally prefer 3clip tetris because of space considerations and preferring small turrets. That being said my layouts aren't super space or material efficient because I tend to stack the loaders and expensive bits on one side of the turret and put metal beams and recoil absorbers on the enemy facing side.
4-clip tetris takes time, but is slightly more efficient.
APFRAG railguns are excellent as general purpose main weapons as APFRAG is far better than APHE against spaced armour.
You could try linear 4 clip Tetris, it should be easier to work with as it has Symmetry perpendicular to the lines of clips. and works by taking 3 clip tetris, adding an addition clip to the autoloaders and then meshing them together leaving a space you can fill with rail magnets, coolers or recoil absorbers.
This is a diagram of it ( with + being autoloaders, with = and [] being clips and with 0 as the spare space.
Traditional 4 clip - Inline 4 clip -
=+=[][]=+=[] +=[]=+=[]=+
[][]=+=[][]=+ []=+=[]=+=[]
+=[][]=+=[][] []0[]0[]0[]0[]
[]=+=[][]=+= +=[]=+=[]=+
=[][]=+=[][]= []=+=[]=+=[]
ive been doing this for ages the problem ive found is that you need an equal amount of recoil and railgun chargers so you generally have to do quite a bit of balancing
Yeah I made a gun with 55000 seconds of recoil and I’ve never had to spend so much time placing recoil dampeners everywhere
I am still having problems with calculations on APS balancing damage output and rapid fire.
I wish devs would make a rotating turret block that could be used as a gauge or autoloader, it would make easier to make cannons.
con of 4 clip Tetris not very space efficient.
then again I seem to be addicted to trying to make very small yet somewhat powerful aps.
for reference I have a 20mm flak CWIS that fits in a 3/3/3 metal box. that has about 558 rpm.
edit love belt feeders... when they work.
I meant a 5/5/5 metal box, not 3/3/3.
WHAT IS A FIVE CLIP TETRIS, YOU CAN'T BLUE BALL ME LIKE THAT
It is smth that can only be used on 1 meter autoloaders. You need to surround the 1 meter autoloader with 5 clips. Then, add inputs to make it have a t shape from above. It should be 2 by 3 by 3, in a box, with 4 three meter tall "blocks".
32:54 not like any Canadian accent I've ever heard... I've lived in Canada my whole life lol. The trick to doing a Canadian accent is a tight smile, don't move your lips, and speak as quickly as humanly possible. Also turn statements into questions with an eh? at the end.
So you wanted to know how to do a Canadian accent. (statement)
So you wanted to know how to do a Canadian accent eh? (question)
That is advice that I do not deserve to know. Thank you! XD
I just came up with an extremely funny idea.
Unless you're making a railgun with 4 magnet attachments, you have at least 1 open slot to put an ammo loader directly on the firing piece, DIFF style.
Using ACBs, you can turn it on to load a DIFF style max size shell if the enemy is within range to not miss horribly for a surpise HE to the face.
wdym 5 clip ???
brief, hmmm
Narrator voice: It was not brief.
XD