The sales numbers are in for Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for the Nintendo Switch family of systems. Footage by @ZXMany Channel art by @PaintraSeaPea
Meanwhile ToTK, despite causing controversy over being the first $70 Switch game, the alleged Yuzu scandal, and being a sequel to another game that's on the same platform, sold over 10 million just in its first week of release and is already a top 10 Switch game for copies sold.
I think you’re forgetting a big piece of this. Mario RPG was a holiday game. A LOT of parents bought it for their kids. Paper Mario came out around the summer. A lot of kids (the main audience) just can’t get the game at the moment.
This! Parents see that it's the newest mario game, so they bought it as a christmas gift. I also think that Mario and Luigi will sell more, because this is also the newest mario game before next christmas.
But doesn’t that prove the series was right in trying to distance themselves from the rpg elements? I remember the backlash the Paper Mario creators got for saying Mario and Luigi was Mario’s rpg series, but now the fact they’re releasing so many rpgs is the excuse for lackluster sales. You can’t have it both ways. When Mario and Luigi exists, there is a real question of if Paper Mario needs to be an rpg too. And I’m not sure it does
I do think it’s worth remembering that in the report, Nintendo stated that it was off to a good start. I think they realize that this and Origami King have released in different circumstances (COVID, original game vs remake, middle vs end of system lifespan, etc.) I do think that it’ll end up getting well into the 2 million range. And I also think they have received the message about classic Paper Mario, the fact we got this remake at all proves that, plus the surveys about original characters and mechanics and stuff.
I don't think so. Nintendo is a company and is only interested in sale numbers and money. They now see that a simple paper mario with only toads sells more than such a crazy and innovative game like ttyd. So for me it looks like nintendo will stick with the boring and cheap toads only paper mario. Because it's cheaper, safer and brings the same (or maybe more) money. I was hoping that ttyd will sell like 10 million times and makes a real message to nintendo. I also think that the timing for ttyd was bad. Mario and Luigi will release in novembre. So most parents will get the newest mario game for their kids for christmas. And this is Mario and Luigi and not paper Mario sadly. But maybe we will see a christmas miracle and paper mario ttyd will sell a lot of units.
@@alexh7513that’s not true though. The best selling game is Super, the one with the least amount of toads. And the second best is Origami King, a game did have original characters (even if they refused to give them names) and is a game that reinvigorated a lot of the charm of the series after Sticker Star and Color Splash. They’re trying. I don’t think they’ve found their footing quite yet, but they are clearly trying to make games better and more original than Sticker Star
@@alexh7513Clearly, sales numbers don't matter as much, I feel like people have leaned far too much into the idea that "sales = influence" specifically for Nintendo. Them making this remake at all, plus the surveys they put out regarding some aspects of it, when something like the OG Paper Mario had more reason to get a remake, let alone of this quality and scale for a cult classic game? No it isn't just sales.
@@DerrickWilson-fm7vc That's true, but super paper mario is a long time ago. I think nintendo will look at their newest games. (So sticker star, color splash, origami king, ttyd) Origami king was better than sticker star and color splash but also without really innovativ characters. The bob omb was nice, but only because of his great story. But it was only a normal bob omb. Some toads have a hat or something, but nothing in comparison to the first 3 paper mario games. It has partners but they don't do anything. They can't even attack. The bosses are also just office things. But the developers gave their best. The problem is that nintendo don't allow them to be creativ.
@@squiddu Sales numbers matters a lot for nintendo. Nintendo is a company and thinks a lot about money and how they could please their investors. If you watch a lot of arlo videos, than you also know this about nintendo. Also nintendo is very carefull with their mario brand. Why should they risk it when a simple only toads paper mario game sells the same or more than ttyd.
nintendo is pretty deliberate with their scheduling. they wanted a game to sell some number of copies in the fiscal quarter, so they put ttyd there. and according to them, the sales were "solid", so they met their own goal. everything is a-ok dude ! (probably)
I think paper Mario is owned by intelligent systems. WarioWare was launched last year as a holiday game and we have to wait six months later for TTYDR.
@@therealjaystone2344 The IP is owned by Nintendo, they just commission IS to make the games, just like since AlphaDream shut down, they've commissioned another studio to develop the M&L RPGs.
the think is not about if it was a flop or a succes, i think was good enought . the think is that many Thousand-Year Door fans wanted to show how "this" is the game people wanted, and then it just sold half than origami king and mario rpg, it give a diferent mensaje that they wanted.
I really wish Nintendo Selects was something Nintendo was still willing to give us. There's so many switch titles I'm interested in playing, but I just can't afford $60 games with how expensive everything else is these days. Nintendo seems dead set against giving consumers any sort of a deal this gen and it's effectively priced me out of most of their catalog.
Sales are a thing, you can find Switch games for less than $60 if you just wait and keep an eye out. You don't NEED Nintendo specifically to slash the price to get a deal.
@@burritobison7700Just last week they had a multiplayer game sale and games like the Mario Sports games were cut by around 33%. They do sales, you just gotta look for it more compared to Steam who hands sales to you on a silver platter.
Also important to remember that Thousand Year Door hasn't experienced a Christmas season yet. Lot of parents are going to be looking through nintendo's catalogue, and hey! if little Timmy liked one Mario RPG, why not get him another?
That’s correct, but the worry most of us fans have is that we need to depend on little Timmy for success when we thought WE would be enough for the game to succeed after clamoring for so many years. Heck I was expecting 3 millions copies sold with how much people where talking about it on the channels I watch.
It is worth noting that in that scenario the game would have to compete with Mario and Luigi (which actually releases right around the holiday season now that I think of it) so there is that.
@@diddly_dude I'm sure Nintendo execs aren't stupid and will account for the overlap when crunching the numbers and the per their expectations as a result.
But Engage is a game with a far worse reception than TTYD, which is often considered the best in its series. Engage at best has good gameplay overshadowed by bad characters and an even worse plot.
Fire Emblem Engage was an extremely decisive game and, in my opinion, the worst in the series. To give you a small taste of how boned this game was at launch. IS announced Engage five months before its release with barly no marketing or promotion whatsoever...and then when it didn't meet expectations. Engage was one of the very first games (that was brand new!) to cease production of physical copies during the end of the switches life. It was only out for about a year. Nintendo sent this game out to die, and when people learned about the drama that happened between Nintendo and IS when it came to the games direction. It honestly doesn't surprise me at all...
@@binxthebinx6575 I know all about Engage, it was actually in contention to be my 2023 goty. Engage was not a flop, nor was it a disappointment in sales. It simply sold the majority of its units during its launch period, which seems to be a trend with late life Nintendo Switch games. It's still the 4th best selling game in the entire franchise, which seems pretty good considering it was meant to be more of a nostalgia fest anniversary celebration than anything. I guarantee you, the vast majority of consumers simply do not give a shit about the inner workings of the studios making their games, if they even know at all. I'd be surprised if any significant amount of potential sales were lost due to any sort of translation or development controversies.
I will say, I dont think Arlo is considering how much of a cult classic Mario RPG is and how rabid it's fan base is either. Whenever he compares both TTYD and RPG, he makes it seem as if the fan base for RPG was not as big, but I feel that's a bit of echo-chamber on his part, since he's a huge fan of TTYD, of course he mainly sees just that part of the fan base. Idk either way I love both
Yeah. Mario rpg usually gets treated like it's somehow less popular than ttyd despite selling pretty much the same when it launched and being re-released multiple times.
Most people who want to buy it, allready bought it. (Like arlo said) Origami king sold 3.5 million. I don't think ttyd will sell as much. maybe 3 million if we are lucky. But to make a message to nintendo, it must sell like 5 million or more.
@@alexh7513that's.. extremely unrealistic for a end of console life, non holiday title. do you realize how many copies a million already is? visualize it.
@@GradythaStudips I didn't said that i was expecting it. But like arlo said, 2 million is not bad but it's not that what old paper mario fans was hoping for. We need more than origami king for a clear message.
I feel like you let your favoritism for certain games (Metroid Dread, Pikmin 4, TTYD) cause you to have unrealistic expectations for how they should sell. There was no way TTYD would sell 3 million in only 1 month. TOK sold 3 million after 5 months and a holiday season. Mario RPG also launched 1 month before Christmas and sold 3 million. We’ll see how TTYD does with the holiday boost.
There could also be the fact that the Switch already has a Paper Mario game, so parents don't see the need to buy another one. Additionally: Super Mario RPG was a remake full blown. TTYD people are mixed if it's a remaster or a remake. I have faith Mario & Luigi will do well because 1. It's a brand new entry. 2. First time Mario & Luigi hit HD 3D. 3. First and possibly only M&L entry on the Switch.
@@raymaikeruI agree, I would say Mario RPG feels kinda like a new game, not only because it's a full blown remake but also because the original game came out on the snes around 30 years ago, it's probably older than most people who bought the remake and it also FEELS older, that's not really the case with TTYD, while it does have an improvment regarding visuals, it's not as pronounced as with Mario RPG. On the other hand, maybe some casuals see TTYD as a game in the style of TOK because it's another Paper Mario, without realising that they are very different games, and maybe they didn't like TOK so they won't bother with TTYD or they just think that "they already have one Paper Mario, there is no need for two"
Super Mario RPG is only 8 years older than The Thousand-Year Door. It’s a testament to how well the first two Paper Marios iterated on it that TTYD feels so much more modern.
@@thatdanjamesguy.330 it doesn't just feel more modern it looks more modern. TTYD still looks like a modern game pretty much, I know a lot of people that can't stand to play the original Mario RPG based on the visuals alone.
Also, three million is a big success. Nintendo has made it clear that they see it as one, and any healthy game company would, too. I feel like Arlo only believes a game is a success if it crosses like the six million mark, but the reality is that the majority of games will not sell that much, and anything that does is an immense success. The fact that Nintendo has so many games that DO sell over six million copies only means that they have more than enough money to create these normal successes and even more niche, modest ones like the upcoming Famicom Detective Club. They clearly have very realistic expectations about how video games will perform compared to many greedier companies that unrealistically anticipate 10+ million copies sold in a game’s first quarter and then lay off a bunch of employees when those expectations aren’t met.
witht his vids intro i thought it sold like 500k or something or like 700k, 800k? 1.7 mil sounds pretty good to me considering this is during the very end of the switch and all?
Yes the problem he most likely has is that Origami King outsold it which could signal to Nintendo that they were right in always innovating/changing the series gameplay. Which upsets him because if Nintendo belives that then Nintendo does have no reason to make classic Paper Mario Games and Arlo wants more Classic Paper Mario.
ToK had much better timing on the switch (it's peak) during covid. And it was the first paper Mario ON TOP of since it was covid there wasn't many games to try soooo paper Mario looked good to try
Only reason I bought Origami King is because it's been so long since I've played Paper Mario I wanted to try to scratch that itch. A 20 year old remake out selling the latest installment of a series is a long shot. But even if the sales come in close, that's noticable
@@janwitt5039 The obsession with sales is the issue. Nintendo hasn't based their direction on Sales. SPM sold the most and it was very different from the previous games and also was never repeated in style. I'm not sure if Nintendo ever designs games purely on copying the most profitable game in the series, except for maybe BOTW due to the immense jump in success.
May not look impressive now but keep in mind this is only reporting on the sales a month after the game's release, and it's almost reached the amount of gamecube TTYD's lifetime sales (spanning three years). _I'd_ say that's pretty good news.
Not really. As noted in the video, sales for most games drop off very quickly as time passes. This is a historical trend that's backed up by years of sales data across the industry. And this remaster unfortunately didn't even match the original. To put it the most charitably, the sales are disappointing against the Switch's install base. Relative to the amount of GameCubes sold, the original sold far better.
@@qactustick Attach rates (game sales relative to console sales) for games on GameCube were ridiculously high though. That system had less other games to play, and more of its install base was dedicated, so almost every GameCube game has a higher attach rate than their Switch counterparts. Smash Melee has a higher attach rate than Ultimate, and Wind Waker has a higher attach rate than TOTK (barely not BOTW).
@@calvinbrinenestoris2357 Yeah, which is basically my point. But then the industry also looked very different in the early-mid 2000s, both on the dev/publisher side and on the consumer side. Gaming was still considered a 'niche' interest and didn't have as many casual fans yet. The PS2 only blew the competition out of the water because it was many households' first DVD player lol
Idk what the stress is, 1.7 million is pretty successful for 5 weeks of sales. I would say thats enough to green light a new paper mario in this format
@@bobvella7228 I will add that there is a rom hack of Paper Mario 64 that adds in a lot of the quality of life stuff from TTYD, literally called Paper Mario 64 TTYD 😅 You can also just play the original on NSO 🤷🏼♂️
Another factor you didn't mention is that worldwide economy is REALLY borked right now. I can tell from first hand experience. I would have loved to pick Thousand-Year Door day one... but right now I don't have the spare funds for that purchase. :
Very valid observation. I don't have a lot of spare funds either; I was able to get it, fortunately, but even then I had to save up for it and treat it as my one splurge purchase for the next few months, and I still felt a bit guilty about it...
I'm interested in the game, but I don't usually get the $60 games at full price unless it's a big one, so I'm waiting for a random sale at a retail store or I'll get it used. I already have tons of other games to play.
@@veroniquepasquereau9801I want this game however I am not spending 60 bucks on a game I already have on the GameCube if it was cheaper I’d Definetly buy it
Because we want the "old" good style back with partners, badges, level up system, battles and unique characters. At this moment the official statement from nintendo is, that paper mario developers are not allowed to create new unique characters. Classic Paper mario fans was hoping for bigger sale numbers, so nintendo consider to change this stupid rule.
@@alexh7513 Tbh I think they got rid of said stupid rule a while ago. I'm not convinced it was ever really a thing or at least not nearly as dire as it seemed.
@@GeorgeMarionerd It was an official statement from nintendo, so it was a 100% true rule from nintendo. Only another official statement or a new paper mario with unique characters will proof, that they changed their mind.
5:29 I'm not sure how much this affects other people, but old switch games are expensive. The rest of the industry will sell old titles for $10-$20 while Nintendo hangs around $30-$40. You can get 2-3 games on a different platform for the price of one first party nintendo title.
Ever since I bought a steam deck for only $100 more than a switch and the exact same games were running better and were constantly on sale for under $10, I have passed up on even buying the first party nintendo games since 2021 It's just silly that games with 360 graphics will never go below $60 so I'm just done supporting it. When TTYD remaster released I simply emulated the GameCube game to not feel ripped off
@@whentheyD Skyward Sword HD "Remaster" $60, plus another $12 or $17 or something around those lines if you want the amiibo so you can have the quality of life fast travel anywhere feature. Nintendo was super greedy with that one. None of Nintendo's pricing makes sense, honestly. Skyward Sword HD, $60 plus an amiibo. Paper Mario TTYD Downgrade, $60. Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, $60. Kirby's Return to Dreamland Deluxe, $60. Super Mario RPG remake that runs like crap? $60. Link's Awakening remake that also runs like crap? Still $60 all these years later, no patch or no price drop (come on Nintendo just cap the framerate at 30 fps PLEASE). But Metroid Prime Remastered, by far the best game and/or best conversion among any of these remakes or remasters? This is the one where Nintendo finally relents and lets us have it for $40. HUH?! Thanks for finally letting us catch a break Nintendo, but why are you over there selling mid to trash for $60 but peak for $40? And note, I still think that it should have been the entire Metroid Prime Trilogy Remastered for $40, maybe $50. That's what almost any other company would have done with it. EDIT: I just remembered Pikmin 1+2! That's two GameCube games together, just higher resolution rather than remade or anything fancy, for $50. NINTENDO WHAT IS YOUR PRICING?!
Yeah it may not be GREAT. BUT to be fair it was only 5ish weeks after release when those numbers were based. We still have the holiday season coming up too.
Basically. The sales are fine. It's going to reach 2mill, still has a holiday period to go. It was a solid entry and probably worth it for Nintendo since this was just a remaster of an old game and it gives them more insight into what people want or dont want from Paper Mario.
Also worth mentioning, switch sales across the board are also super down right now, it’s reasonable to believe this can also be a result of the console hype dying out like we’ve seen over generations
Not a holiday release, a remake of a sequel, the next console has all been but officially announced and we are in a time where people just are not spending money 2 million would be a decent success all things considered
I can't say I'm a big fan of people trying to look at and compare these sales numbers at face value, because at the end of the day, you just can't. Nintendo's financial report also showed that profits are significantly lower across the board right now. That's some very important context that simply wasn't taken into account here. A game's success shouldn't be solely determined by how many units are sold.
@@Glitchyy07 Exactly. The TTYD remake did considerably better than any of its modern predecessors by that metric. We can only hope that Nintendo will be taking stuff like that into consideration as well. Considering that they have specifically done some surveys asking players what they like about the Mario RPGs, I think there's a decent chance they are paying at least some attention to the reception.
@@Miccat87 I really hope so, the remake was my first ever experience with TTYD, and it solidified my love for the older style of the series. I don’t know if I’ll ever like paper Mario as much if it decides to go back to being super experimental instead of an RPG series
People blaming this on the whole 60 fps debate are widely misunderstanding where the majority of Nintendo game sales come from to begin with. That barely would’ve caused a dent in sales, if any at all. The majority of people buying this game are casual fans that likely don’t even know what the term “frame rate” means. It’s the same as the infamous Pokemon Sword and Shield tree where people on Twitter make a big stink about it, yet it ultimately is irrelevant to the larger consumer base. I honestly think that the reason for the decline in sales is the same reason that caused Mario Party Superstars to perform worse relative to Super Mario Party: people already had a Paper Mario game for the switch, so many decided they didn’t need a second one. For casual fans, one game in a franchise is often enough, and it’s difficult to sell them another when they’re satisfied with what they have. It’s quite literally the “we have Paper Mario at home” mindset.
On the 3DS, IS released FE Echoes right when the Switch was announced. I'm thinking that Nintendo is delegating releases like this to stalling for time while they get some footing to launch their next generation. The primary goal wasn't really to hit world-record level figures for this one I feel.
It definitely caused a dent in sales. A lot of people don't want the game because of the downgrade, myself included. And I don't know about anyone else who didn't buy it, but I wasn't under the impression that this was going to be a huge boycott. I knew plenty of people would still buy it. Which is why even I'm shocked to learn that the sales are as poor as they are. Maybe a lot more diehard TTYD fans decided "screw this, I'll stick with the superior version I already have" than I thought. For as well liked as this game is among the fanbase, as well as compared to other Switch releases, these sales are abysmal.
I mean, you’ve gotta consider that Mario RPG had a boost from being released right before Christmas. Paper Mario didn’t have that being released in May and I think they’re taking that into account when comparing the sales.
TTYD goes along with Pikmin 4 and Metroid Dread as games that by nearly any reasonable standard are doing well but still deserve to do...y'know, at least 1/4 of Super Mario Party or Pokemon BD/SP sold. The fact that they haven't is a reminder that life isn't fair.
Trash like Pokémon BDSP selling that well is crazy. It’s the first Pokémon game I haven’t bought in forever and it’s a shame many others didn’t follow suit.
i wanna get around to pikmin but i really just wishe they bundled the first 3 games into one package instead of the only the first 2 im not made of money :(
@@alexh7513 im aware but wouldnt it be cooler if Pikmin 1-3 were bundled together for $40 so then a new comer like me didnt have to buy the 3rd and 4th game at full price? I I think that would just be more convenient
You're gonna get the 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Party, 3D Zelda, Smash Bros, Splatoon I wish we can afford all of that in one go (even just *one* game) but the economy is pretty dire at the moment. I'd love to get TTYD but rent and food comes first
Still sounds pretty good to me. We need to remember: they released the Mario RPG remake, released this TTYD remake, AND are making a brand new Mario & Luigi game for Switch. All 3 of those things are impossible dreams that have finally come true. I think they finally got the message that we want real Mario RPG games.
I think Mario RPG sold more because its a remake of an SNES game, so it looks SUPER different and its fun for old fans to see it with modern graphics and cinematics? Where as yes, thousand year door does look way better, but aside from being all shiny & HD, it still looks & feels almost exactly the same as the original. And rebuying a game you already have at full price again is a lot to ask >.
Also, big holiday title, also hugely prominent VC release that kept it relevant), also (imo) only Mario game that calls itself "Super Mario". I genuinely think that last thing might be relevant.
I had this exact same idea! I genuinely think this plays a big part in the hype surrounding the game and whether or not it was worth buying. I jumped to play the brand new, newly polished, gorgeous Mario RPG. But TTYD didn't even look that much different. I definitely was not as hype.
Yeah but the Switch install base is much larger than the gamecube install base, you can see that with Wii U games such as New Super Mario U and Captain Toad that sold about as well as TTYD on that console, they still sold even better on Switch, and those had even less graphical upgrades than TTYD Remake.
@@SliderGamer55 Yes, parents see the name Super Mario and it's the newest mario before christmas. So of course they buy it for their kids as a present.
You gotta remember, RPG launched around Christmas, when parents were buying gifts. Also, at least Nintendo got the message with RPG that we want more creativity in these games, if RPG didn't sell as much as it did we would be in MUCH more trouble.
If that’s the actual reason the sales are doing ok, but not great then that’s really dumb. I feel like someone not buying this game because it wasn’t 60fps is a horrible reason to not want to buy it.
@@Austin-zc9gp I'm sure there were a few people that didn't buy it for that reason but it's definitely not a significant part of the sales. I personally didn't buy it because it had a lot of small issues and I was happy with the original, but I'm aware I'm in a pretty small minority. I hope it sells well with new players, it's still a great game and more people should experience it.
Probably a reality check that Paper Mario, especially a re-release of a 20 year old game, is not the press stopper that the hardcore Nintendo fandom seem to think it is. We’ll have to let this play out. I don’t know why Nintendo has suddenly brought back all the Mario RPG series within a year of each other. Maybe they think they can all co-exist with each other or maybe they’re trying to find out which one is dominant and worth ongoing investment.
that's....not that bad sales? it nearly reached 2 mil in the first 6 weeks, for a $60 game on a likely AA budget, on the 7th year of a console that's going to be replaced likely next year? that sounds like a successful launch to me. I wasn't even sure it was going to break a million, but it surprised me.
As soneone who's analyzes game sales professionally, you touched on a few saliant points that explain TTYD's performance. TL;DR: Timing and release positioning is everything. 1. Same-console sequels generally sell less than the original. TOK had the benefit of being the first Switch Paper Mario. SMRPG was the first traditional Mario RPG on Switch (less than 6 nonths ago!). People who got their PM/RPG fix already are less likely to buy a new entry. 2. The Switch is its 8th year. Sales generally slow down considerably in a system's final 1-2 years before a successor (and especially after). Consumer enthusiam for the Switch and its games is at an all-time low. Big difference between a system's total installbase and its ACTIVE installbase. 3. Generally, original games sell stronger than straightforward remakes/remasters. If an orignal PM was in TTYD HD's release slot, demand would be higher. A lot of people who already played TTYD aren't necessarily rushing to buy a game they already experienced. Especially the more core consumers who buy games late in a system's lifespan. 4. TTYD HD had poor release timing, and TOK had very beneficial timing. TOK came out during Year 4 of the Switch, the system's sales peak (H1 2020 during COVID lockdowns). Meanwhile TTYD HD came out in Year 8 of the Switch during its largest sales decline ever. Again, low consumer enthusiasm. You're seeing simialrly lower sales across the board for 1st Party Switch games this year. 4.5 Further positioning woes: SMRPG had the benefit of being one of Nintendo's tentpole Holiday games for 2023, with the coveted November release slot. Again, TTYD HD released less than 6 months after SMRPG and it's being sandwhiched between M&L Brothership this Holiday as well. Consumers who are wanting another RPG experience may be waiting for Brothership, while TTYD is stuck with middle child syndrome. If yoy want my predictions, I think TTYD HD sells up to 2.5m LTD in a couple years. Brothership sells around 2m around launch, creeping up to 3m LTD. Switch 2 backwards compatibility will play into this, especially with the potential of next-gen patches which may boost sales. Keep in mind, these are quite good sales numbers. TTYD HD being at 1.7m already is good, if it never sold more it would be a success for Nintendo. Hopefully Nintendo factors in the significantly stronger critical reception of TTYD HD into their decision making for next Paper Mario.
No offence to Arlo, at all, but I sometimes feel he has a slightly unrealistic expectation of sales figures as it relates to Nintendo games. As a reminder Botw's massive success was very much unprecedented in terms of series history. The highest selling Zelda game before it was twilight princess at 8 mill, and that game was released across three different consoles over several years. Mario had always been Nintendo's biggest IP, but it has its roots in the dawn of gaming, and 3D Mario has only recently started selling as well as 2D mario, with Odyssey. And Pokemon isn't comparable with anything, mainline Pokemon will sell no matter what, it's the highest grossing media franchise ever. Any Nintendo game breaching 1 million is a good thing. Not every game and especially not every Mario spin off is going to sell as well as a mainline Mario or Zelda. And even in comparison to Origami King, that game has about 3.4 mill after 4 years. TTYD remake has 1.7 after nearly half a year. that's a good number. Yes, OK sold 3 mill by december of its release year, but right now its only august. theres a big difference here. plus it's a remake, so it has a little less "new game hype" so to speak. Super Paper Mario is the best selling of the series at 4.2 and that was a wii game which had a huge install base, and that game didn't hit 2 mil until the following year.
It’s possible Origami King is more appealing to a kids. While not everyone likes the fully paper aesthetic, to a kid seeing both games Origami King might seem more interesting. Also I don’t think the TTYD fandom is as big as people think. They are just loud.
It also came out at a time when every kid was at home completely bored and I'm sure many parents saw the cute new Mario game as a nice temporary distraction.
I think the $60 pricing hurt it. If Metroid prime remastered could be $40 I think this could have been too. I know Nintendo likes to slap a $60 price tag on anything with Mario’s face on it, but Mario RPGs are niche. It could have used the help
Well TTYD sold better than MP remastered while having 88 instead of 94 in Metacritic, it sold enough that pricing the game lower would probably hurt Nintendo revenue.
@@birdbig6852 that’s a good point. I just often wonder- if they lower the price of a release by $10, how many more copies would they have to sell to make up for that, and come out ahead? If they lowered the price of TTYD, would it have attracted more customers, enough to make it worthwhile? I guess that’s what Nintendo analyzed to find out, and they decided 60 was best overall
@@aws-107 that doesn’t really change anything though, unless there would be a massive spike in sales if it was $40, which tbh I doubt considering Luigi’s mansion 2 is still selling pretty well in spite of being $60 and the hardcore fan base not really caring about that. In all likelihood, the amount of extra sales being with it being $40 likely wouldn’t really change the amount of money Nintendo made, as it would mean they’d be making less money with each sale
Can't wait for the toxic arguments to come back in full force, where the new school Paper Mario fans smuggly rub it in about TTYD's lower sales compared to TOK and the old school Paper Mario fans then start bringing up Sticker Star again for the umpteenth time this decade... Sigh, the revolving door of angry online discourse... 🙃
I don't think we have anything to worry about, this is a clear success since it didn't even release during the holidays. The Mario Party series going back to its roots is an obvious example of Nintendo listening to fans and restoring a series back to its former glory even though Superstars didn't sell as well as Super Mario party. If that's anything to go off of, then Paper Mario is in good hands. This is even more evident with the Mario RPG surveys and Ryota Kawade returning as the director for the TTYD remake after over a decade. We should rest easy we're living in a Mario RPG renaissance right now.
@@BrianAngel7x "super mario party" just a name. it's apparent based on the trailer that it's exactly the kind of game we were hoping mario party would return to.
@@jclkaytwo I agree with you, the trailer does look promising. I think they’re trying to mix both styles of Mario party, I saw what appeared to be motion control minigames and regular ones. Man, If they mix old paper mario and new paper mario it could bring a great outcome
@@BrianAngel7x honestly, outside of the overworld level design (which was pretty crap in ttyd honestly) I don't really see what aspects of new paper mario could be added to improve old paper mario's formula. it's pretty much already the full package.
@@jclkaytwo The level design is obviously its best feature. But TOK also has more interactive events, timed platforming segments where if you fail it’s game over, minigames, etc. Those help keep the player engaged. Also, changing the battle themes per chapter was first introduced in origami king and ttyd remake used it incredibly well. Ttyd is still my fav game ever but I’ll give TOK credit in some areas.
I'd say a big reason why TTYD's numbers werent as high as some hoped is probably due to alot of casual audiences (AKA the silent majority of Nintendo Switch players) feeling like they already had their Paper Mario fill with Origami King. As much as some may not like to hear that, it's common that games of the same series on the same platform don't tend to do as those that preceded it because of that, even if they are considered better by more hardcore fans. Other examples of this include Mario Party Superstars, Fire Emblem Engage, and even Tears Of The Kingdom to some extent. All that said, I also think for those worried that it not out-selling Origami King in a few months (which, lets be real, was entirely unrealistic) means they're going back to the Sticker Star format, I can garanteed that 1.6 million sales for a AA title is still good enough to get a message across. Even Nintendo said in the report they consider it a success. Don't panic right now, I can assure you the fact they even remade TTYD at all is proof that they do care.
Fans complain about this kind of stuff, but they don’t have any real idea about the business side of gaming. They released the game like people kept dating them to, and it didn’t do too well. “Those numbers are so much smaller than I expect.” That’s because you, none of us, don’t have any idea about that. And anytime fans get that stuff correct, it’s purely coincidence
Yeah, everyone was convinced this would be an instant hit. I remember Paper Mario TTYD fans claiming millions of people were just waiting for the chance to buy this game, and all Nintendo had to do was let them. People even blamed Gamecube sales for the originals lackluster numbers. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. We tend to forget how small communities on the internet actually are because of how loud the big voices seem. All those years of TH-camrs hyping it up amounted to little, sadly. It's a reminder of how vast the internet is and how easy it is to unknowingly lock yourself in a bubble of confirmation bias.
@@just_an_elli Remember how everyone was asking for a new Metroid game very loudly for a decade? Then they lost their mind when Dread was announced? You would think it would sell gangbusters, right? Well it sold 3 millions, barely above the best selling Metroid game so far. Dread got outsold by 1-2 Switch. People being loud online rarely match the actual popularity of a series
I'm South African and the cost of gaming is expensive. I purchase the 2 vouchers every year and then have to decide which games I want to play. When you're competing against Zelda, mainline Mario and Pikmin, a game like this is not being considered. I wish I could afford to play more AAA titles but until Nintendo reduces prices, it isn't happening
Yeah I'm surprised by that too, I absolutely did not expect that at all. Like I don't have a Luigis Mansion game but if I got one I'd be much quicker to buy 3 than 2HD
@@drdewott9154 yeah I’ve heard people say Luigi’s Mansion has a big following and I love the games but if it had such a following you think you would see them… anywhere. Makes me curious about game sales and demographic information. Like I am ride or die Nintendo played since I was in diapers and I’m 30 now and have disposable income. I didn’t just buy LM3 but also got it as a gift for a family member and have plenty of fond memories of the original…. If I didn’t buy this (also none of my friends who are also Nintendo fans bought this) who did? I know it’s a small sample size but I just find it a bit shocking!
For me, I skipped it because of the script changes, and I don't like how oddly glossy the game looks. They sanitized too many descriptions and jokes. So I opted to just stick with the Gamecube version. Some of the visuals look good, but Rogueport was supposed to be grungy. Yet, the ground is all shiny and reflective. I don't know why they didn't add in masks to the reflectivity to give the ground some more texture to it. Here's hoping Mario & Luigi Brothership does well, because we all thought that series was dead.
What were people expecting, it’s a remake of a 20 yo game in a rather niche series. Considering what it is and how it probably didn’t cost much to make, those are pretty decent numbers.
This is about the future of the Paper Mario series. Ever since Super Paper Mario, the Paper Mario series has strayed from the traditional RPG model of the first 2 games. TTYD fans have been begging for the series to return to its roots. The hope was that this game would prove them right about the direction of the series. It doesn't look that will happen now. Sales are good, in a vacuum, but notably behind The Origami King and SMRPG.
@@bethanyh1637 Again, it’s a new game vs a remake. The new game is gonna sell better the vast majority of the time. Honestly, between TTYD selling pretty decently and SMRPG exceeding all expectations, Nintendo would be stupid to not see the demand for a traditional Mario RPG.
@@gabcard2767 The current results suggest that the Paper Mario series is good where Nintendo had it. They have other Mario RPGs that can carry the traditional mantle.
Something you're forgetting about the 1000 year door is that rpg and origami king had more wind to their backs RPG was literally released right before the holiday so it had a massive sales boost because of that and origami king was released in 2020 when everyone was stuck at home and playing games so it being under the sales figures is expected how it is at the end of the year is likely a better determine our final sales
I'm not sure why everyone is so upset about these sales figures. This is actually pretty typical of their remakes if you look at the others. Mario RPG selling so much more than the original should actually be surprising. Metroid Prime sold significantly less than the original release, and it's not like Metroid isn't popular anymore. Dread sold over three million copies and the recent Prime 4 trailer is at almost 2 million views.
@@MageJiro my PC is too weak to run most modern games at 60, unless its an Old game from the 2000s or the games really well optimized, so im fine with 30 but i dont really like how if i wanna play the game again after like a few years i gotta tinker with the settings again after i re-install. Most games i etiher get on switch if they have good ports or i get on the Xbox cus i have one now!
@@Keeby219 Let's go fellow weak pc owner, I feel less alone. I can pretty much only run Visual Novels (which is fine, that's my favourite genre), and even then just barely. It slogged its way through Steins;Gate Phenogram and can't even properly run Robotics;Notes.
it probably didn't make a big dent, but it's probably a handful of people. similarly, censoring the game's 2004 script probably put off at least a couple of people. insignificant compared to the people who bought it though.
Another factor I definitely think is worth considering is the fact that, as far as the average consumer who’s just looking at things on the shelf is concerned, TTYD looks like it could be a sequel to Origami King and we all know that sequels normally don’t sell as well as the first game.
Don't underestimate the Smash Bros effect. You're forgetting all the people who have heard fans gushing about SMRPG for years because they want Geno in Smash. So many people have heard of SMRPG just because of the Smash hype around fans wanting Geno in Smash (and his eventual costume addition). Probably a lot of people wanted to check out SMRPG just to finally see what all the hype was about with Geno and the game he comes from. Also it being a Square game carries a lot of weight too. I'd bet there were a decent amount of people who are fans of Square's RPGs but never got to experience SMRPG and wanted to check it out.
I think the lack of legs on sales of a game has to do with the fact the price never decreases. I buy a lot of single player games second hand because someone has already finished it and will sell it for a little less than they bought it for.
I feel like Mario RPG and Origami King had the advantage of being a winter release and a Covid lockdown release respectively. Leading to them getting a boost in sales that a game like TTYD, releasing in May during non-pandemic times, wouldn't have. On top of it being the Switch's second game in the subseries, and those pretty much always sell less than the predecessor. By all means, the TTYD remake is a success. And we know that Nintendo considers it a success because they even said the sales were "solid."
Mario RPGs are niche to begin with, so I think the sales are better than what Nintendo expected. Unfortunately TTYD has stiff competition this holiday season with Zelda and Brothership dropping.
I just bought ttyd today and put a couple hours on it. This was my first time playing a paper mario game and I think it's really cute. It's a game I could definitely finish. I didn't even notice the framerate issues, and I'm a pretty big framerate geek myself. Never having seen the original, I think this game stands up pretty strong on its own I bought this along with Mario RPG (yet to play, but I'm curious how well I'll like it as a first timer considering how much I'm liking ttyd so far). I'm not a big RPG guy let alone a Mario RPG guy (never played one before. Only RPG series I could truly get into was Earthbound) but I picked these games over preordering Zelda and Brothership, so I hope I made the right decision lol
I do really think it’s because Origami King released months after Covid lockdown and Mario RPG released during the holiday season. There’s still hope in TTYDs ongoing success
I dunno man, Luigi’s Mansion 2 getting 1.2 in a fraction of the time is worrying. That was a much less revered game, less work was done with that remake, and the online discourse being that no one cared about that game and should have included the first one I think this serves a reminder that we’re all in a bubble. The hardcore fans caring doesn’t mean the casuals will
@DerrickWilson-fm7vc eh not a great comparison. Luigis mansion 2 sold a LOT on the 3Ds. Luigis Mansion 3 SOLD EVEN MORE on switch. The series is just much more popular in general.
@@tumultuousv but that proves the general idea that Mario RPG’s don’t sell especially well to begin with, right? If Luigi can consistently surpass Mario RPGs to the point where a pretty simple upres that was $20 more than the original game (and imo the worst in the trilogy) can be catching up to TTYD in spite of only coming out a few days before the quarter ended, doesn’t that kinda prove these RPGs are niche and likely won’t bounce back (especially with a brand new one right around the corner)?
Probably a combination of reasons. I think people are interested in these types of games, but I think people are tired of paying the full price of $60 for remakes and remasters. Also, we are at the end of the Switch's life, so maybe people are saving their money for the new console.
Arlo isn't even a gamecube era gamer, he's at least n64 or SNES era. He's old enough to still look down on Wind Waker for the spaceworld presentation, for example
Ttyd fans need to open their eyes and realize that they are not the only most beloved mario rpg entry, hell they might be the worst compared to super mario rpg and mario and luigi
Could also be that Super Mario RPG was released before christmas. So a lot of parents had bought the game for their kids for christmas. The Paper Mario Remake was released at the end of the switch in summer. I don't think the timing is as good as with super mario rpg.
Games I love sell bad and games I hate sell great. I try really hard not to think about it because it makes me feel hopeless, which is not how I want video games to make me feel. They're supposed to ease the pains and stress of my life, not give me something else to be paranoid about
@@JB-qu8pvI mean.. New Horizons was the saint video game during the pandemic. BDSP, a lot of new kids these days never played Sinnoh games before. Heck I'm now meeting kids that never heard of a DS. So really us that hate BDSP seem to be the minority of consumers.
I think something that also has to be considered is that a lot of people who are massive fans of the game probably still have game cubes and they’re copy of the game somewhere and if they really wanna play it, they can just play it on the game cube some people probably didn’t want to get the new version because they still have theirs and it still works.mine broke years ago so I couldn’t play it and I wanted it on the switch for the portability and so my kid could play it someday but I’m sure a lot of people were just pretty happy with theirs that they already had
come on, Christmas sales, boost the numbers! I got TTYD as a gift, so I hope many other children get to experience that!!! (oh, no, Brothership is coming out; 3 Mario RPG's, and a new one at that... might not be good...)
Just had a thought: what if they're not testing these series against each other at all? What if they already knew that RPGs cater to a niche but passionate base, and they wondered "if we pump out fairly cheap and easy RPGs every 6 months, will this passionate fanbase consistently buy them? Will they get RPG fatigue?" I mean, Mariokart is great and all, but it might take more manpower to make. Plus they know that vocal, niche fans are important to their longterm success, even if the projects they adore aren't as profitable as the more mainstream items. RPG fans especially are kind of like paperback novel lovers: we don't expect a lot of innovation in every title and in fact we love to.see familiar/comforting tropes. A reliable 2 million in sales every 6 months can be a nice sustainer while other teams are working on riskier projects that may or may not be the next Mariokart.
Something to also consider is Super Mario RPG released in the holiday season, so it probably ended up as Christmas presents. It could be people are holding off for the holidays. The Oct-Dec quarter is one to look at, as it could be a secondary peak.
I mean, given we're still kinda in a worldwide recession (which people seem to be REALLY REALLY happy to forget, even though it's hugely important for why the numbers are the way they are), that's actually really good sales.
Hey Arlo! I wanna let you know that I got my copy with a game voucher. I don’t know about others, but this game’s release had me so hyped that I decided to go all out and get super Mario RPG with it. I have never played thousand year door, but I’ve heard such amazing things I figured it’s time. Absolutely loving it, as a fan of the n64 paper Mario I’m surprised I never played it.
I do worry that people may get burnt out on Mario RPGS, and that may attribute to the lesser sales when compared to Mario RPG, but at the same time, I think we gotta see how TTYD fares over the holiday season to truly know how it’s selling.
Oof, I've done that, twice! Once with the DSi XL and again with the NEW 3DS XL, I ended up getting the Switch at the end of its launch year as not to do it again!
@burritobison7700 Money and my lack thereof. (Also I run on the "1 game per chrismas" role) Like dont get me wrong, I've heard of ttyd a lot on the internet and want to play it myself, but Im not even a nintendo person (not yet, at least) I've been a Playstation guy but I feel burn out by their realism team shooter slop coming out. Tl;dr : poor, not huge nintendo fan
I think part of the problem is we got Orgami King and then Super Mario RPG right after. For a casual player, they might have already had enough Mario RPGs (or picked their one to try). Old heads like me might have already gotten their retro fix with the Super Mario RPG remake. Also, if your first Paper Mario was Orgami King, I understand why you might not want to try another one.
That’s only a factor for a minority of people, so i don’t see how it would affect sales to a meaningful degree Even then i think it sold pretty well for 5 weeks, we should wait for a more reasonable amount of time before judging it properly
I think the main thing is that people still HAVE TYD. With Origami King, that was a brand new game; Super Mario RPG(the original) feels very outdated plus this version fixes a ton of stuff and adds new content. But for TYD, the original on gamecube, while hard to get, still holds up perfectly fine. I think that may be why it didn't do that well.
@@jpbo98u don’t have to worry. If anything that game will probably take the attention away from paper mario since it comes out in time for Black Friday sales and it’s the newest Mario game
@@oscarzxn4067 I think it’s a lot more than that. Paying $60 for a game that runs at half the frame rate of original is a tough sell, no matter how beautiful it is.
@@Kudos2_Meyour right about the price. Why pay 60 for a game that I already own and with not that many changes other then visually, adding a few things etc when it still mostly the same game at the end of the day. If I was gonna pay 60 I rather it be a new game like what Mario and Luigi is doing
Not to be rude but I genuinely think that people whose favorite is Thousand Year Door are simply just louder. The sales data for the whole franchise doesn't support the idea that's the one title that is above others. I understand it's Arlo's favorite and many people's favorite but that doesn't change the reality of the broader market. (I bought all the Mario RPGs and continue to do so). I actually prefer the Mario & Luigi series to the Paper Mario series but love both.
I'm convinced that Mario RPG is just more popular AND had the benefit of the holidays. Plus TTYD has competition in TOK which will cause people to not get it because they already have a Paper Mario.
I never got to play Mario and Luigi. I had a friend back then that talked to me about the series and even showed me his games. I was planning to get the new game of the series that was announced. I mostly knew of the Paper Mario series.
@redjackal7823 I wholeheartedly recommend them. I'm replaying the entire series on 3DS in preparation for Brothership. Just finished Partners in Time, Bowser's Inside Story next up.
I have three reasons why I didn’t buy it yet. 1) $60 full price for another old game. 2) I have a pretty bad game log. One of which is Elden Ring. 3) I’m old too, I still have my original copy.
It’s also a little odd because Paper Mario has been an ongoing series that’s picked up new fans over the years, whereas Mario RPG was the only game of its kind. You’d think more people would flock to a franchise they’re more familiar with.
I feel like you cant comapre switches install base directly with other consoles since its market is so much younger on average. Kids dont buy as many games, they play way more free games. Outside of birthdays and Christmas a lot of kids dont really get more $60 games. That's two a year per kid using the console Early summer release is good for birthdays but not christmas sales. I bet they see a second bump during the 2024 holiday season
I'm hoping that the Switch's successor help push Paper Mario's sales, especially with all those coding things we saw, I'm sure the 30 FPS crowd who didn't buy it because it wasn't 60 FPS will come around and get it thanks to this upscaling.
The problem with that is that the number of people who decided not to get it because it wasn’t 60 is an extremely small vocal minority. It’s not like a million people skipped the game over it; it’s really just a few Twitter users that probably wouldn’t have gotten the game anyway in most cases.
@@twosoup3252 Yeah I'm aware of that, but still it's something, and then there's the people who care about 4K (which I'm not lol), and based on the codes we found we can expect such an upscaling, and that's another crowd who might jump in to see the new power of the Switch 2. If there's cope there's hope LOL
If they don't release an update then it will also be 30 fps on the switch successor. Also (like arlo) i don't think that a lot of people don't bought the game because of the 30 fps. I mean maybe some thousands but not that much. And we allready saw a lot of PS4 games stuck at 30 fps on the PS5 because no update was released.
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA Finals D2 | Fall | ต้องรักษาฟอร์ม อย่ายอมให้ใครแซง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/x38QsGn7A3M/mqdefault.jpg)
I don’t know about you guys but a $60 game selling nearly 2 million copies in 5 weeks on a most-likely AA budget is a success in my eyes.
And in the 7th year of a console’s generation with the announcement that they’re working on the next console! Doesn’t sound too bad
Totally agree!
Agreed people are throwing such a tantrum over the “low” sales
Meanwhile ToTK, despite causing controversy over being the first $70 Switch game, the alleged Yuzu scandal, and being a sequel to another game that's on the same platform, sold over 10 million just in its first week of release and is already a top 10 Switch game for copies sold.
@@qactustickRyujinx leaked TOTK first tho
I think you’re forgetting a big piece of this. Mario RPG was a holiday game. A LOT of parents bought it for their kids. Paper Mario came out around the summer. A lot of kids (the main audience) just can’t get the game at the moment.
Exactly that. ^
This! Parents see that it's the newest mario game, so they bought it as a christmas gift. I also think that Mario and Luigi will sell more, because this is also the newest mario game before next christmas.
But doesn’t that prove the series was right in trying to distance themselves from the rpg elements? I remember the backlash the Paper Mario creators got for saying Mario and Luigi was Mario’s rpg series, but now the fact they’re releasing so many rpgs is the excuse for lackluster sales.
You can’t have it both ways. When Mario and Luigi exists, there is a real question of if Paper Mario needs to be an rpg too. And I’m not sure it does
I think most people bought Mario Wonder for their kids. This is a not so convincing argument.
Kids don't like RPGs these days they play fortnite 😂
I do think it’s worth remembering that in the report, Nintendo stated that it was off to a good start. I think they realize that this and Origami King have released in different circumstances (COVID, original game vs remake, middle vs end of system lifespan, etc.) I do think that it’ll end up getting well into the 2 million range. And I also think they have received the message about classic Paper Mario, the fact we got this remake at all proves that, plus the surveys about original characters and mechanics and stuff.
I don't think so. Nintendo is a company and is only interested in sale numbers and money. They now see that a simple paper mario with only toads sells more than such a crazy and innovative game like ttyd. So for me it looks like nintendo will stick with the boring and cheap toads only paper mario. Because it's cheaper, safer and brings the same (or maybe more) money. I was hoping that ttyd will sell like 10 million times and makes a real message to nintendo.
I also think that the timing for ttyd was bad. Mario and Luigi will release in novembre. So most parents will get the newest mario game for their kids for christmas. And this is Mario and Luigi and not paper Mario sadly. But maybe we will see a christmas miracle and paper mario ttyd will sell a lot of units.
@@alexh7513that’s not true though. The best selling game is Super, the one with the least amount of toads. And the second best is Origami King, a game did have original characters (even if they refused to give them names) and is a game that reinvigorated a lot of the charm of the series after Sticker Star and Color Splash.
They’re trying. I don’t think they’ve found their footing quite yet, but they are clearly trying to make games better and more original than Sticker Star
@@alexh7513Clearly, sales numbers don't matter as much, I feel like people have leaned far too much into the idea that "sales = influence" specifically for Nintendo.
Them making this remake at all, plus the surveys they put out regarding some aspects of it, when something like the OG Paper Mario had more reason to get a remake, let alone of this quality and scale for a cult classic game? No it isn't just sales.
@@DerrickWilson-fm7vc That's true, but super paper mario is a long time ago. I think nintendo will look at their newest games. (So sticker star, color splash, origami king, ttyd) Origami king was better than sticker star and color splash but also without really innovativ characters. The bob omb was nice, but only because of his great story. But it was only a normal bob omb. Some toads have a hat or something, but nothing in comparison to the first 3 paper mario games. It has partners but they don't do anything. They can't even attack. The bosses are also just office things. But the developers gave their best. The problem is that nintendo don't allow them to be creativ.
@@squiddu Sales numbers matters a lot for nintendo. Nintendo is a company and thinks a lot about money and how they could please their investors. If you watch a lot of arlo videos, than you also know this about nintendo.
Also nintendo is very carefull with their mario brand. Why should they risk it when a simple only toads paper mario game sells the same or more than ttyd.
nintendo is pretty deliberate with their scheduling. they wanted a game to sell some number of copies in the fiscal quarter, so they put ttyd there. and according to them, the sales were "solid", so they met their own goal. everything is a-ok dude ! (probably)
I think paper Mario is owned by intelligent systems. WarioWare was launched last year as a holiday game and we have to wait six months later for TTYDR.
@@therealjaystone2344 The IP is owned by Nintendo, they just commission IS to make the games, just like since AlphaDream shut down, they've commissioned another studio to develop the M&L RPGs.
the think is not about if it was a flop or a succes, i think was good enought .
the think is that many Thousand-Year Door fans wanted to show how "this" is the game people wanted, and then it just sold half than origami king and mario rpg, it give a diferent mensaje that they wanted.
@@shadowx86
"Mensaje"
@@shadowx86 You mean "message"?
I really wish Nintendo Selects was something Nintendo was still willing to give us. There's so many switch titles I'm interested in playing, but I just can't afford $60 games with how expensive everything else is these days. Nintendo seems dead set against giving consumers any sort of a deal this gen and it's effectively priced me out of most of their catalog.
Sales are a thing, you can find Switch games for less than $60 if you just wait and keep an eye out. You don't NEED Nintendo specifically to slash the price to get a deal.
@@TyrantWeskerI have almost never seen a first party Nintendo game go on sale for more than a third off if that, they don’t do sales
But on the other side switch games prices don't fall a lot. So if you buy a switch game for about 50 $, you can easy sell it for 30 $ a year later.
Bingo! I have a family to feed and inflation friggin’ sux! Man I want this game.
@@burritobison7700Just last week they had a multiplayer game sale and games like the Mario Sports games were cut by around 33%.
They do sales, you just gotta look for it more compared to Steam who hands sales to you on a silver platter.
Also important to remember that Thousand Year Door hasn't experienced a Christmas season yet. Lot of parents are going to be looking through nintendo's catalogue, and hey! if little Timmy liked one Mario RPG, why not get him another?
That’s correct, but the worry most of us fans have is that we need to depend on little Timmy for success when we thought WE would be enough for the game to succeed after clamoring for so many years.
Heck I was expecting 3 millions copies sold with how much people where talking about it on the channels I watch.
It is worth noting that in that scenario the game would have to compete with Mario and Luigi (which actually releases right around the holiday season now that I think of it) so there is that.
BUT, mario and luigi releases a month before, they will look up something like "what's the newest mario game" and m+l will show up
@@diddly_dude I'm sure Nintendo execs aren't stupid and will account for the overlap when crunching the numbers and the per their expectations as a result.
parents don't even know the acronym "RPG" exists.
For what it's worth,
Thousand-Year Door: 1.76 million in 5-6 weeks
Fire Emblem Engage: 1.61 million in 8-9 weeks
But Engage is a game with a far worse reception than TTYD, which is often considered the best in its series. Engage at best has good gameplay overshadowed by bad characters and an even worse plot.
Engage was very divisive among fans. Many just straight up refused to buy it. TTYD on the other hand is a well loved game so not the best comparison
It's not a shocker that any Mario game beat out a Fire Emblem in sales
Fire Emblem Engage was an extremely decisive game and, in my opinion, the worst in the series.
To give you a small taste of how boned this game was at launch. IS announced Engage five months before its release with barly no marketing or promotion whatsoever...and then when it didn't meet expectations. Engage was one of the very first games (that was brand new!) to cease production of physical copies during the end of the switches life. It was only out for about a year.
Nintendo sent this game out to die, and when people learned about the drama that happened between Nintendo and IS when it came to the games direction. It honestly doesn't surprise me at all...
@@binxthebinx6575 I know all about Engage, it was actually in contention to be my 2023 goty.
Engage was not a flop, nor was it a disappointment in sales. It simply sold the majority of its units during its launch period, which seems to be a trend with late life Nintendo Switch games. It's still the 4th best selling game in the entire franchise, which seems pretty good considering it was meant to be more of a nostalgia fest anniversary celebration than anything.
I guarantee you, the vast majority of consumers simply do not give a shit about the inner workings of the studios making their games, if they even know at all. I'd be surprised if any significant amount of potential sales were lost due to any sort of translation or development controversies.
I will say, I dont think Arlo is considering how much of a cult classic Mario RPG is and how rabid it's fan base is either. Whenever he compares both TTYD and RPG, he makes it seem as if the fan base for RPG was not as big, but I feel that's a bit of echo-chamber on his part, since he's a huge fan of TTYD, of course he mainly sees just that part of the fan base.
Idk either way I love both
I myself has always preferred Mario RPG, and honestly having just played both remakes I really think it's still the best one.
mario rpg was huge when it came out, but then also had gained cult classic status, its one of the most played snes games for a reason now.
I didn't know SMRPG existed 'til around 2003. Although being British prbly contributed to that.
Yeah. Mario rpg usually gets treated like it's somehow less popular than ttyd despite selling pretty much the same when it launched and being re-released multiple times.
@@slitcheyprobably just a generational thing
This is a pretty niche series, 1.7 million in a month is great
Edit: in a few months is great
Most people who want to buy it, allready bought it. (Like arlo said) Origami king sold 3.5 million. I don't think ttyd will sell as much. maybe 3 million if we are lucky. But to make a message to nintendo, it must sell like 5 million or more.
@@alexh7513true I would love to buy this game but tbh I just don’t feel it’s worth 60 bucks especially when I own the GameCube version
@@alexh7513that's.. extremely unrealistic for a end of console life, non holiday title. do you realize how many copies a million already is? visualize it.
@@GradythaStudips I didn't said that i was expecting it. But like arlo said, 2 million is not bad but it's not that what old paper mario fans was hoping for. We need more than origami king for a clear message.
I feel like you let your favoritism for certain games (Metroid Dread, Pikmin 4, TTYD) cause you to have unrealistic expectations for how they should sell. There was no way TTYD would sell 3 million in only 1 month. TOK sold 3 million after 5 months and a holiday season. Mario RPG also launched 1 month before Christmas and sold 3 million. We’ll see how TTYD does with the holiday boost.
There could also be the fact that the Switch already has a Paper Mario game, so parents don't see the need to buy another one.
Additionally: Super Mario RPG was a remake full blown. TTYD people are mixed if it's a remaster or a remake.
I have faith Mario & Luigi will do well because 1. It's a brand new entry. 2. First time Mario & Luigi hit HD 3D. 3. First and possibly only M&L entry on the Switch.
@@raymaikeruI agree, I would say Mario RPG feels kinda like a new game, not only because it's a full blown remake but also because the original game came out on the snes around 30 years ago, it's probably older than most people who bought the remake and it also FEELS older, that's not really the case with TTYD, while it does have an improvment regarding visuals, it's not as pronounced as with Mario RPG.
On the other hand, maybe some casuals see TTYD as a game in the style of TOK because it's another Paper Mario, without realising that they are very different games, and maybe they didn't like TOK so they won't bother with TTYD or they just think that "they already have one Paper Mario, there is no need for two"
Super Mario RPG is only 8 years older than The Thousand-Year Door. It’s a testament to how well the first two Paper Marios iterated on it that TTYD feels so much more modern.
@@thatdanjamesguy.330 it doesn't just feel more modern it looks more modern. TTYD still looks like a modern game pretty much, I know a lot of people that can't stand to play the original Mario RPG based on the visuals alone.
Also, three million is a big success. Nintendo has made it clear that they see it as one, and any healthy game company would, too. I feel like Arlo only believes a game is a success if it crosses like the six million mark, but the reality is that the majority of games will not sell that much, and anything that does is an immense success. The fact that Nintendo has so many games that DO sell over six million copies only means that they have more than enough money to create these normal successes and even more niche, modest ones like the upcoming Famicom Detective Club. They clearly have very realistic expectations about how video games will perform compared to many greedier companies that unrealistically anticipate 10+ million copies sold in a game’s first quarter and then lay off a bunch of employees when those expectations aren’t met.
witht his vids intro i thought it sold like 500k or something or like 700k, 800k? 1.7 mil sounds pretty good to me considering this is during the very end of the switch and all?
Yes the problem he most likely has is that Origami King outsold it which could signal to Nintendo that they were right in always innovating/changing the series gameplay. Which upsets him because if Nintendo belives that then Nintendo does have no reason to make classic Paper Mario Games and Arlo wants more Classic Paper Mario.
ToK had much better timing on the switch (it's peak) during covid. And it was the first paper Mario ON TOP of since it was covid there wasn't many games to try soooo paper Mario looked good to try
Only reason I bought Origami King is because it's been so long since I've played Paper Mario I wanted to try to scratch that itch. A 20 year old remake out selling the latest installment of a series is a long shot. But even if the sales come in close, that's noticable
Not great sales at all.
@@janwitt5039 The obsession with sales is the issue. Nintendo hasn't based their direction on Sales. SPM sold the most and it was very different from the previous games and also was never repeated in style. I'm not sure if Nintendo ever designs games purely on copying the most profitable game in the series, except for maybe BOTW due to the immense jump in success.
May not look impressive now but keep in mind this is only reporting on the sales a month after the game's release, and it's almost reached the amount of gamecube TTYD's lifetime sales (spanning three years). _I'd_ say that's pretty good news.
Not really. As noted in the video, sales for most games drop off very quickly as time passes. This is a historical trend that's backed up by years of sales data across the industry. And this remaster unfortunately didn't even match the original. To put it the most charitably, the sales are disappointing against the Switch's install base. Relative to the amount of GameCubes sold, the original sold far better.
But when you compare the user base for the gamecube vs the switch, the numbers start looking grim again unfortunately
It will continue to decline in sales and besides brothership is coming as a holiday game and more will buy the latest newest game over the older game
@@qactustick Attach rates (game sales relative to console sales) for games on GameCube were ridiculously high though. That system had less other games to play, and more of its install base was dedicated, so almost every GameCube game has a higher attach rate than their Switch counterparts. Smash Melee has a higher attach rate than Ultimate, and Wind Waker has a higher attach rate than TOTK (barely not BOTW).
@@calvinbrinenestoris2357 Yeah, which is basically my point. But then the industry also looked very different in the early-mid 2000s, both on the dev/publisher side and on the consumer side. Gaming was still considered a 'niche' interest and didn't have as many casual fans yet. The PS2 only blew the competition out of the water because it was many households' first DVD player lol
Idk what the stress is, 1.7 million is pretty successful for 5 weeks of sales. I would say thats enough to green light a new paper mario in this format
Have to learn finance
@@chiquita683go to college kid
I doubt it but we will have to wait till after Christmas
You’re suffering from confirmation bias. More than likely the message Nintendo got is that nostalgia sells.
I think people are just upset because it didn’t beat origami king.
This remake was my first paper mario game ever and I absolutely loved it. Here's hoping those numbers jump at christmas time...
play pm64, thought it was more tightly designed, also bug fables.
@@bobvella7228 I will add that there is a rom hack of Paper Mario 64 that adds in a lot of the quality of life stuff from TTYD, literally called Paper Mario 64 TTYD 😅
You can also just play the original on NSO 🤷🏼♂️
Another factor you didn't mention is that worldwide economy is REALLY borked right now.
I can tell from first hand experience. I would have loved to pick Thousand-Year Door day one... but right now I don't have the spare funds for that purchase. :
yeah, buying the funny paper moustache man videogame isn't really the priority when you can barely afford to buy groceries
Very valid observation. I don't have a lot of spare funds either; I was able to get it, fortunately, but even then I had to save up for it and treat it as my one splurge purchase for the next few months, and I still felt a bit guilty about it...
I'm interested in the game, but I don't usually get the $60 games at full price unless it's a big one, so I'm waiting for a random sale at a retail store or I'll get it used. I already have tons of other games to play.
I have to be REALLY selective with my purchases. I did get it though.
@@veroniquepasquereau9801I want this game however I am not spending 60 bucks on a game I already have on the GameCube if it was cheaper I’d Definetly buy it
The sales are good, I feel like people's expectations were just too high.
Because we want the "old" good style back with partners, badges, level up system, battles and unique characters. At this moment the official statement from nintendo is, that paper mario developers are not allowed to create new unique characters. Classic Paper mario fans was hoping for bigger sale numbers, so nintendo consider to change this stupid rule.
@@alexh7513 Tbh I think they got rid of said stupid rule a while ago. I'm not convinced it was ever really a thing or at least not nearly as dire as it seemed.
@@GeorgeMarionerd It was an official statement from nintendo, so it was a 100% true rule from nintendo. Only another official statement or a new paper mario with unique characters will proof, that they changed their mind.
@@alexh7513 shut up
5:29 I'm not sure how much this affects other people, but old switch games are expensive. The rest of the industry will sell old titles for $10-$20 while Nintendo hangs around $30-$40. You can get 2-3 games on a different platform for the price of one first party nintendo title.
skyward sword hd ""remaster"" 60 bucks
Ever since I bought a steam deck for only $100 more than a switch and the exact same games were running better and were constantly on sale for under $10, I have passed up on even buying the first party nintendo games since 2021
It's just silly that games with 360 graphics will never go below $60 so I'm just done supporting it. When TTYD remaster released I simply emulated the GameCube game to not feel ripped off
@@WhatUpLuband you can emulate newer switch games via steam deck too
*Nintendo hangs around $60
Fixed that for you. It's a very rare sale where you can get Nintendo games for $30-$40.
@@whentheyD Skyward Sword HD "Remaster" $60, plus another $12 or $17 or something around those lines if you want the amiibo so you can have the quality of life fast travel anywhere feature. Nintendo was super greedy with that one.
None of Nintendo's pricing makes sense, honestly. Skyward Sword HD, $60 plus an amiibo. Paper Mario TTYD Downgrade, $60. Luigi's Mansion 2 HD, $60. Kirby's Return to Dreamland Deluxe, $60. Super Mario RPG remake that runs like crap? $60. Link's Awakening remake that also runs like crap? Still $60 all these years later, no patch or no price drop (come on Nintendo just cap the framerate at 30 fps PLEASE).
But Metroid Prime Remastered, by far the best game and/or best conversion among any of these remakes or remasters? This is the one where Nintendo finally relents and lets us have it for $40. HUH?! Thanks for finally letting us catch a break Nintendo, but why are you over there selling mid to trash for $60 but peak for $40?
And note, I still think that it should have been the entire Metroid Prime Trilogy Remastered for $40, maybe $50. That's what almost any other company would have done with it.
EDIT: I just remembered Pikmin 1+2! That's two GameCube games together, just higher resolution rather than remade or anything fancy, for $50. NINTENDO WHAT IS YOUR PRICING?!
Yeah it may not be GREAT. BUT to be fair it was only 5ish weeks after release when those numbers were based. We still have the holiday season coming up too.
Problem with that is we've got a different Mario RPG lined up in the holiday slot.
It'd be rough if there was some other Mario RPG releasing this holiday season
Mario and Luigi Brothership:
Because, Arlo internet nerds are not the general public.
Yep.
Basically. The sales are fine. It's going to reach 2mill, still has a holiday period to go. It was a solid entry and probably worth it for Nintendo since this was just a remaster of an old game and it gives them more insight into what people want or dont want from Paper Mario.
Also worth mentioning, switch sales across the board are also super down right now, it’s reasonable to believe this can also be a result of the console hype dying out like we’ve seen over generations
Not a holiday release, a remake of a sequel, the next console has all been but officially announced and we are in a time where people just are not spending money
2 million would be a decent success all things considered
Exactly
There is also the fact that Nintendo has talked about the new console after Super Mario RPG came out and before TTYD came out.
I can't say I'm a big fan of people trying to look at and compare these sales numbers at face value, because at the end of the day, you just can't.
Nintendo's financial report also showed that profits are significantly lower across the board right now. That's some very important context that simply wasn't taken into account here. A game's success shouldn't be solely determined by how many units are sold.
True, I feel like reviews and reception are also super important
@@Glitchyy07 Exactly. The TTYD remake did considerably better than any of its modern predecessors by that metric.
We can only hope that Nintendo will be taking stuff like that into consideration as well.
Considering that they have specifically done some surveys asking players what they like about the Mario RPGs, I think there's a decent chance they are paying at least some attention to the reception.
@@Miccat87 I really hope so, the remake was my first ever experience with TTYD, and it solidified my love for the older style of the series. I don’t know if I’ll ever like paper Mario as much if it decides to go back to being super experimental instead of an RPG series
People blaming this on the whole 60 fps debate are widely misunderstanding where the majority of Nintendo game sales come from to begin with. That barely would’ve caused a dent in sales, if any at all. The majority of people buying this game are casual fans that likely don’t even know what the term “frame rate” means. It’s the same as the infamous Pokemon Sword and Shield tree where people on Twitter make a big stink about it, yet it ultimately is irrelevant to the larger consumer base.
I honestly think that the reason for the decline in sales is the same reason that caused Mario Party Superstars to perform worse relative to Super Mario Party: people already had a Paper Mario game for the switch, so many decided they didn’t need a second one. For casual fans, one game in a franchise is often enough, and it’s difficult to sell them another when they’re satisfied with what they have. It’s quite literally the “we have Paper Mario at home” mindset.
Sadly that’s true
On the 3DS, IS released FE Echoes right when the Switch was announced. I'm thinking that Nintendo is delegating releases like this to stalling for time while they get some footing to launch their next generation. The primary goal wasn't really to hit world-record level figures for this one I feel.
The controversy for TTYDR was much deeper over Vivian being trans
It definitely caused a dent in sales. A lot of people don't want the game because of the downgrade, myself included. And I don't know about anyone else who didn't buy it, but I wasn't under the impression that this was going to be a huge boycott. I knew plenty of people would still buy it. Which is why even I'm shocked to learn that the sales are as poor as they are. Maybe a lot more diehard TTYD fans decided "screw this, I'll stick with the superior version I already have" than I thought. For as well liked as this game is among the fanbase, as well as compared to other Switch releases, these sales are abysmal.
@@mjc0961 while not knowing the OG version is the censored version
I mean, you’ve gotta consider that Mario RPG had a boost from being released right before Christmas. Paper Mario didn’t have that being released in May and I think they’re taking that into account when comparing the sales.
TTYD goes along with Pikmin 4 and Metroid Dread as games that by nearly any reasonable standard are doing well but still deserve to do...y'know, at least 1/4 of Super Mario Party or Pokemon BD/SP sold. The fact that they haven't is a reminder that life isn't fair.
Trash like Pokémon BDSP selling that well is crazy. It’s the first Pokémon game I haven’t bought in forever and it’s a shame many others didn’t follow suit.
The fact that pokemon scarlet/violett, a 20 fps game with all the errors sold more isn't fair.
i wanna get around to pikmin but i really just wishe they bundled the first 3 games into one package instead of the only the first 2 im not made of money :(
@@Keeebs pikmin 3 is allready a 60 $ game for the switch. To bundle it make absolutely no sense.
@@alexh7513 im aware but wouldnt it be cooler if Pikmin 1-3 were bundled together for $40 so then a new comer like me didnt have to buy the 3rd and 4th game at full price? I I think that would just be more convenient
Here’s the thing: I would love to own this game. But I also need to be able to afford groceries. My games budget is dead for now.
I think the puppet is coping a little too much
You're gonna get the 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Party, 3D Zelda, Smash Bros, Splatoon
I wish we can afford all of that in one go (even just *one* game) but the economy is pretty dire at the moment. I'd love to get TTYD but rent and food comes first
Still sounds pretty good to me. We need to remember: they released the Mario RPG remake, released this TTYD remake, AND are making a brand new Mario & Luigi game for Switch.
All 3 of those things are impossible dreams that have finally come true.
I think they finally got the message that we want real Mario RPG games.
True, just giving us niche titles with a reasonable amount of hype and effort is a good thing.
I think Mario RPG sold more because its a remake of an SNES game, so it looks SUPER different and its fun for old fans to see it with modern graphics and cinematics? Where as yes, thousand year door does look way better, but aside from being all shiny & HD, it still looks & feels almost exactly the same as the original. And rebuying a game you already have at full price again is a lot to ask >.
Also, big holiday title, also hugely prominent VC release that kept it relevant), also (imo) only Mario game that calls itself "Super Mario". I genuinely think that last thing might be relevant.
I had this exact same idea! I genuinely think this plays a big part in the hype surrounding the game and whether or not it was worth buying. I jumped to play the brand new, newly polished, gorgeous Mario RPG. But TTYD didn't even look that much different. I definitely was not as hype.
Yeah but the Switch install base is much larger than the gamecube install base, you can see that with Wii U games such as New Super Mario U and Captain Toad that sold about as well as TTYD on that console, they still sold even better on Switch, and those had even less graphical upgrades than TTYD Remake.
Not to mention, this is the first time that Europe ever got the game, so that definitely helped in the sales department.
@@SliderGamer55 Yes, parents see the name Super Mario and it's the newest mario before christmas. So of course they buy it for their kids as a present.
You gotta remember, RPG launched around Christmas, when parents were buying gifts. Also, at least Nintendo got the message with RPG that we want more creativity in these games, if RPG didn't sell as much as it did we would be in MUCH more trouble.
CLEARLY this was because it wasn’t 60fps, otherwise it would have made 10 ninbillion dollars
If that’s the actual reason the sales are doing ok, but not great then that’s really dumb. I feel like someone not buying this game because it wasn’t 60fps is a horrible reason to not want to buy it.
@@Austin-zc9gp I think they were kidding lol
@@anon4305 Yeah, I know, but I just can’t imagine if that actually was part of the reason.
@@Austin-zc9gp I'm sure there were a few people that didn't buy it for that reason but it's definitely not a significant part of the sales. I personally didn't buy it because it had a lot of small issues and I was happy with the original, but I'm aware I'm in a pretty small minority. I hope it sells well with new players, it's still a great game and more people should experience it.
Well that's legit the reason I didn't buy it. Maybe I will, used and at a cheaper price
Probably a reality check that Paper Mario, especially a re-release of a 20 year old game, is not the press stopper that the hardcore Nintendo fandom seem to think it is.
We’ll have to let this play out. I don’t know why Nintendo has suddenly brought back all the Mario RPG series within a year of each other. Maybe they think they can all co-exist with each other or maybe they’re trying to find out which one is dominant and worth ongoing investment.
To be fair, a lot of games are underperforming right now. It is probably linked to how weird the economy is doing.
i feel like the paper mario community is more of a loud vocal minority than a mass market series with broad appeal.
that's....not that bad sales? it nearly reached 2 mil in the first 6 weeks, for a $60 game on a likely AA budget, on the 7th year of a console that's going to be replaced likely next year? that sounds like a successful launch to me. I wasn't even sure it was going to break a million, but it surprised me.
As soneone who's analyzes game sales professionally, you touched on a few saliant points that explain TTYD's performance. TL;DR: Timing and release positioning is everything.
1. Same-console sequels generally sell less than the original. TOK had the benefit of being the first Switch Paper Mario. SMRPG was the first traditional Mario RPG on Switch (less than 6 nonths ago!). People who got their PM/RPG fix already are less likely to buy a new entry.
2. The Switch is its 8th year. Sales generally slow down considerably in a system's final 1-2 years before a successor (and especially after). Consumer enthusiam for the Switch and its games is at an all-time low. Big difference between a system's total installbase and its ACTIVE installbase.
3. Generally, original games sell stronger than straightforward remakes/remasters. If an orignal PM was in TTYD HD's release slot, demand would be higher. A lot of people who already played TTYD aren't necessarily rushing to buy a game they already experienced. Especially the more core consumers who buy games late in a system's lifespan.
4. TTYD HD had poor release timing, and TOK had very beneficial timing. TOK came out during Year 4 of the Switch, the system's sales peak (H1 2020 during COVID lockdowns). Meanwhile TTYD HD came out in Year 8 of the Switch during its largest sales decline ever. Again, low consumer enthusiasm. You're seeing simialrly lower sales across the board for 1st Party Switch games this year.
4.5 Further positioning woes: SMRPG had the benefit of being one of Nintendo's tentpole Holiday games for 2023, with the coveted November release slot. Again, TTYD HD released less than 6 months after SMRPG and it's being sandwhiched between M&L Brothership this Holiday as well. Consumers who are wanting another RPG experience may be waiting for Brothership, while TTYD is stuck with middle child syndrome.
If yoy want my predictions, I think TTYD HD sells up to 2.5m LTD in a couple years. Brothership sells around 2m around launch, creeping up to 3m LTD. Switch 2 backwards compatibility will play into this, especially with the potential of next-gen patches which may boost sales. Keep in mind, these are quite good sales numbers. TTYD HD being at 1.7m already is good, if it never sold more it would be a success for Nintendo.
Hopefully Nintendo factors in the significantly stronger critical reception of TTYD HD into their decision making for next Paper Mario.
Lool analyzes game sales professionally
@@ClumpypooCP So what do you do for a living that's so much more prestigious, "ClumpyPoo"
If Arlo doesn't have nails, then what is he biting in the thumbnail?
I would have bought it if not for the framerate and dumbing down the writing. It just looks so weird at 30 FPS.
No offence to Arlo, at all, but I sometimes feel he has a slightly unrealistic expectation of sales figures as it relates to Nintendo games. As a reminder Botw's massive success was very much unprecedented in terms of series history. The highest selling Zelda game before it was twilight princess at 8 mill, and that game was released across three different consoles over several years. Mario had always been Nintendo's biggest IP, but it has its roots in the dawn of gaming, and 3D Mario has only recently started selling as well as 2D mario, with Odyssey. And Pokemon isn't comparable with anything, mainline Pokemon will sell no matter what, it's the highest grossing media franchise ever.
Any Nintendo game breaching 1 million is a good thing. Not every game and especially not every Mario spin off is going to sell as well as a mainline Mario or Zelda.
And even in comparison to Origami King, that game has about 3.4 mill after 4 years. TTYD remake has 1.7 after nearly half a year. that's a good number. Yes, OK sold 3 mill by december of its release year, but right now its only august. theres a big difference here. plus it's a remake, so it has a little less "new game hype" so to speak.
Super Paper Mario is the best selling of the series at 4.2 and that was a wii game which had a huge install base, and that game didn't hit 2 mil until the following year.
It’s possible Origami King is more appealing to a kids. While not everyone likes the fully paper aesthetic, to a kid seeing both games Origami King might seem more interesting. Also I don’t think the TTYD fandom is as big as people think. They are just loud.
It also came out at a time when every kid was at home completely bored and I'm sure many parents saw the cute new Mario game as a nice temporary distraction.
I think the $60 pricing hurt it. If Metroid prime remastered could be $40 I think this could have been too. I know Nintendo likes to slap a $60 price tag on anything with Mario’s face on it, but Mario RPGs are niche. It could have used the help
Well TTYD sold better than MP remastered while having 88 instead of 94 in Metacritic, it sold enough that pricing the game lower would probably hurt Nintendo revenue.
Mario is bigger than metroid @@birdbig6852
@@birdbig6852 that’s a good point. I just often wonder- if they lower the price of a release by $10, how many more copies would they have to sell to make up for that, and come out ahead? If they lowered the price of TTYD, would it have attracted more customers, enough to make it worthwhile? I guess that’s what Nintendo analyzed to find out, and they decided 60 was best overall
@@aws-107 that doesn’t really change anything though, unless there would be a massive spike in sales if it was $40, which tbh I doubt considering Luigi’s mansion 2 is still selling pretty well in spite of being $60 and the hardcore fan base not really caring about that.
In all likelihood, the amount of extra sales being with it being $40 likely wouldn’t really change the amount of money Nintendo made, as it would mean they’d be making less money with each sale
Can't wait for the toxic arguments to come back in full force, where the new school Paper Mario fans smuggly rub it in about TTYD's lower sales compared to TOK and the old school Paper Mario fans then start bringing up Sticker Star again for the umpteenth time this decade...
Sigh, the revolving door of angry online discourse... 🙃
I don't think we have anything to worry about, this is a clear success since it didn't even release during the holidays. The Mario Party series going back to its roots is an obvious example of Nintendo listening to fans and restoring a series back to its former glory even though Superstars didn't sell as well as Super Mario party. If that's anything to go off of, then Paper Mario is in good hands. This is even more evident with the Mario RPG surveys and Ryota Kawade returning as the director for the TTYD remake after over a decade. We should rest easy we're living in a Mario RPG renaissance right now.
The thing is, they went with the super Mario party branding for jamboree. So I think that lets us know how much Nintendo values sales
@@BrianAngel7x "super mario party" just a name. it's apparent based on the trailer that it's exactly the kind of game we were hoping mario party would return to.
@@jclkaytwo I agree with you, the trailer does look promising. I think they’re trying to mix both styles of Mario party, I saw what appeared to be motion control minigames and regular ones. Man, If they mix old paper mario and new paper mario it could bring a great outcome
@@BrianAngel7x honestly, outside of the overworld level design (which was pretty crap in ttyd honestly) I don't really see what aspects of new paper mario could be added to improve old paper mario's formula. it's pretty much already the full package.
@@jclkaytwo The level design is obviously its best feature. But TOK also has more interactive events, timed platforming segments where if you fail it’s game over, minigames, etc. Those help keep the player engaged. Also, changing the battle themes per chapter was first introduced in origami king and ttyd remake used it incredibly well. Ttyd is still my fav game ever but I’ll give TOK credit in some areas.
I'd say a big reason why TTYD's numbers werent as high as some hoped is probably due to alot of casual audiences (AKA the silent majority of Nintendo Switch players) feeling like they already had their Paper Mario fill with Origami King. As much as some may not like to hear that, it's common that games of the same series on the same platform don't tend to do as those that preceded it because of that, even if they are considered better by more hardcore fans. Other examples of this include Mario Party Superstars, Fire Emblem Engage, and even Tears Of The Kingdom to some extent.
All that said, I also think for those worried that it not out-selling Origami King in a few months (which, lets be real, was entirely unrealistic) means they're going back to the Sticker Star format, I can garanteed that 1.6 million sales for a AA title is still good enough to get a message across. Even Nintendo said in the report they consider it a success. Don't panic right now, I can assure you the fact they even remade TTYD at all is proof that they do care.
Origami King was released when nobody had anything better to do and Mario RPG released in the holiday season which means more sales
Fans complain about this kind of stuff, but they don’t have any real idea about the business side of gaming. They released the game like people kept dating them to, and it didn’t do too well.
“Those numbers are so much smaller than I expect.”
That’s because you, none of us, don’t have any idea about that. And anytime fans get that stuff correct, it’s purely coincidence
I've always said that over half of the people who begged for this game to be made never even cared about the original
Yeah, everyone was convinced this would be an instant hit. I remember Paper Mario TTYD fans claiming millions of people were just waiting for the chance to buy this game, and all Nintendo had to do was let them. People even blamed Gamecube sales for the originals lackluster numbers. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. We tend to forget how small communities on the internet actually are because of how loud the big voices seem. All those years of TH-camrs hyping it up amounted to little, sadly. It's a reminder of how vast the internet is and how easy it is to unknowingly lock yourself in a bubble of confirmation bias.
@@just_an_elli Remember how everyone was asking for a new Metroid game very loudly for a decade? Then they lost their mind when Dread was announced? You would think it would sell gangbusters, right? Well it sold 3 millions, barely above the best selling Metroid game so far. Dread got outsold by 1-2 Switch.
People being loud online rarely match the actual popularity of a series
I'm South African and the cost of gaming is expensive. I purchase the 2 vouchers every year and then have to decide which games I want to play. When you're competing against Zelda, mainline Mario and Pikmin, a game like this is not being considered. I wish I could afford to play more AAA titles but until Nintendo reduces prices, it isn't happening
The most shocking thing is that anybody bought the Luigi’s Mansion 2 remake
Yeah I'm surprised by that too, I absolutely did not expect that at all. Like I don't have a Luigis Mansion game but if I got one I'd be much quicker to buy 3 than 2HD
@@drdewott9154 yeah I’ve heard people say Luigi’s Mansion has a big following and I love the games but if it had such a following you think you would see them… anywhere. Makes me curious about game sales and demographic information. Like I am ride or die Nintendo played since I was in diapers and I’m 30 now and have disposable income. I didn’t just buy LM3 but also got it as a gift for a family member and have plenty of fond memories of the original…. If I didn’t buy this (also none of my friends who are also Nintendo fans bought this) who did? I know it’s a small sample size but I just find it a bit shocking!
For me, I skipped it because of the script changes, and I don't like how oddly glossy the game looks. They sanitized too many descriptions and jokes. So I opted to just stick with the Gamecube version. Some of the visuals look good, but Rogueport was supposed to be grungy. Yet, the ground is all shiny and reflective. I don't know why they didn't add in masks to the reflectivity to give the ground some more texture to it. Here's hoping Mario & Luigi Brothership does well, because we all thought that series was dead.
What were people expecting, it’s a remake of a 20 yo game in a rather niche series. Considering what it is and how it probably didn’t cost much to make, those are pretty decent numbers.
Invalid Point because SMRPG was Like 8 -10 yrs older and also niche.
@@nord1756 yes and it selling as well as it did was a freaking anomaly. This is just the usual that should be expected.
This is about the future of the Paper Mario series. Ever since Super Paper Mario, the Paper Mario series has strayed from the traditional RPG model of the first 2 games. TTYD fans have been begging for the series to return to its roots. The hope was that this game would prove them right about the direction of the series. It doesn't look that will happen now. Sales are good, in a vacuum, but notably behind The Origami King and SMRPG.
@@bethanyh1637 Again, it’s a new game vs a remake. The new game is gonna sell better the vast majority of the time.
Honestly, between TTYD selling pretty decently and SMRPG exceeding all expectations, Nintendo would be stupid to not see the demand for a traditional Mario RPG.
@@gabcard2767 The current results suggest that the Paper Mario series is good where Nintendo had it. They have other Mario RPGs that can carry the traditional mantle.
Retailers sold through their copies at some places. I think it sold better than N expected it to
Something you're forgetting about the 1000 year door is that rpg and origami king had more wind to their backs RPG was literally released right before the holiday so it had a massive sales boost because of that and origami king was released in 2020 when everyone was stuck at home and playing games so it being under the sales figures is expected how it is at the end of the year is likely a better determine our final sales
I'm not sure why everyone is so upset about these sales figures. This is actually pretty typical of their remakes if you look at the others. Mario RPG selling so much more than the original should actually be surprising. Metroid Prime sold significantly less than the original release, and it's not like Metroid isn't popular anymore. Dread sold over three million copies and the recent Prime 4 trailer is at almost 2 million views.
Arlo - there is not a single person on the planet who was going to buy this game and then saw it was 30fps and decided not to.
ive always told people that 30FPS isnt even bad as long as its a stable 30 which TTYD most certaintly is
@@Keeby219 I play games on PC so I definitely dont like 30fps but I bought TTYD because I wanted to support an actual good paper mario game.
@@MageJiro my PC is too weak to run most modern games at 60, unless its an Old game from the 2000s or the games really well optimized, so im fine with 30 but i dont really like how if i wanna play the game again after like a few years i gotta tinker with the settings again after i re-install.
Most games i etiher get on switch if they have good ports or i get on the Xbox cus i have one now!
@@Keeby219
Let's go fellow weak pc owner, I feel less alone. I can pretty much only run Visual Novels (which is fine, that's my favourite genre), and even then just barely. It slogged its way through Steins;Gate Phenogram and can't even properly run Robotics;Notes.
it probably didn't make a big dent, but it's probably a handful of people. similarly, censoring the game's 2004 script probably put off at least a couple of people. insignificant compared to the people who bought it though.
i was just thinking why arlo hadnt made a video like this yet this morning, thanks Arlo!
Another factor I definitely think is worth considering is the fact that, as far as the average consumer who’s just looking at things on the shelf is concerned, TTYD looks like it could be a sequel to Origami King and we all know that sequels normally don’t sell as well as the first game.
I got Mario RPG because it was the holidays and I was planning on doing the same with TTYD. Maybe it’ll see some more sales by then
You ever think that maybe, the people who like Thousand Year Door ARE the vocal minority? At least based on the sales numbers presented in the video?
Don't underestimate the Smash Bros effect. You're forgetting all the people who have heard fans gushing about SMRPG for years because they want Geno in Smash. So many people have heard of SMRPG just because of the Smash hype around fans wanting Geno in Smash (and his eventual costume addition). Probably a lot of people wanted to check out SMRPG just to finally see what all the hype was about with Geno and the game he comes from. Also it being a Square game carries a lot of weight too. I'd bet there were a decent amount of people who are fans of Square's RPGs but never got to experience SMRPG and wanted to check it out.
I think the lack of legs on sales of a game has to do with the fact the price never decreases. I buy a lot of single player games second hand because someone has already finished it and will sell it for a little less than they bought it for.
I feel like Mario RPG and Origami King had the advantage of being a winter release and a Covid lockdown release respectively. Leading to them getting a boost in sales that a game like TTYD, releasing in May during non-pandemic times, wouldn't have. On top of it being the Switch's second game in the subseries, and those pretty much always sell less than the predecessor. By all means, the TTYD remake is a success. And we know that Nintendo considers it a success because they even said the sales were "solid."
Mario RPGs are niche to begin with, so I think the sales are better than what Nintendo expected. Unfortunately TTYD has stiff competition this holiday season with Zelda and Brothership dropping.
I just bought ttyd today and put a couple hours on it. This was my first time playing a paper mario game and I think it's really cute. It's a game I could definitely finish. I didn't even notice the framerate issues, and I'm a pretty big framerate geek myself. Never having seen the original, I think this game stands up pretty strong on its own
I bought this along with Mario RPG (yet to play, but I'm curious how well I'll like it as a first timer considering how much I'm liking ttyd so far).
I'm not a big RPG guy let alone a Mario RPG guy (never played one before. Only RPG series I could truly get into was Earthbound) but I picked these games over preordering Zelda and Brothership, so I hope I made the right decision lol
I do really think it’s because Origami King released months after Covid lockdown and Mario RPG released during the holiday season. There’s still hope in TTYDs ongoing success
I dunno man, Luigi’s Mansion 2 getting 1.2 in a fraction of the time is worrying. That was a much less revered game, less work was done with that remake, and the online discourse being that no one cared about that game and should have included the first one
I think this serves a reminder that we’re all in a bubble. The hardcore fans caring doesn’t mean the casuals will
@@DerrickWilson-fm7vc I just realized luigi mansion 2 came out only a few days before the end of the quarter. Over 1 mio copies is insane.
@DerrickWilson-fm7vc eh not a great comparison. Luigis mansion 2 sold a LOT on the 3Ds. Luigis Mansion 3 SOLD EVEN MORE on switch. The series is just much more popular in general.
@@tumultuousv but that proves the general idea that Mario RPG’s don’t sell especially well to begin with, right? If Luigi can consistently surpass Mario RPGs to the point where a pretty simple upres that was $20 more than the original game (and imo the worst in the trilogy) can be catching up to TTYD in spite of only coming out a few days before the quarter ended, doesn’t that kinda prove these RPGs are niche and likely won’t bounce back (especially with a brand new one right around the corner)?
most people who cared about TYD played it when it came out, the fact that it sold at all is a miracle, remakes are boring and a waste of money
Sorry for letting you down Arlo - I'm saving this one for Christmas since I'm still deep in my backlog
Same. I've let him down.
Whats ur backlog rn?
Probably a combination of reasons. I think people are interested in these types of games, but I think people are tired of paying the full price of $60 for remakes and remasters. Also, we are at the end of the Switch's life, so maybe people are saving their money for the new console.
One reason might be that
"Super Mario RPG" sounds much more important
It's THE Mario rpg, while "thousand year door" is quite unengaging.
I disagree with that statement thousand year door is a more interesting name while rpg is cliché
Arlo is just chugging that high grade copium.
Arlo saying that Mario RPG Is not as beloved as TTYD Is the most American GameCube era gamer comment I have ever Heard.
Arlo isn't even a gamecube era gamer, he's at least n64 or SNES era. He's old enough to still look down on Wind Waker for the spaceworld presentation, for example
@@nunyabiddeness6544 he was a kid when those consoles were around, he mostly started to be a more dedicated gamer with the GC.
Ttyd fans need to open their eyes and realize that they are not the only most beloved mario rpg entry, hell they might be the worst compared to super mario rpg and mario and luigi
Could also be that Super Mario RPG was released before christmas. So a lot of parents had bought the game for their kids for christmas. The Paper Mario Remake was released at the end of the switch in summer. I don't think the timing is as good as with super mario rpg.
Games I love sell bad and games I hate sell great. I try really hard not to think about it because it makes me feel hopeless, which is not how I want video games to make me feel. They're supposed to ease the pains and stress of my life, not give me something else to be paranoid about
Yea. Animal Crossing New Horizon and Pokémon BDSP, games I hate, sold way too much
I don't think you should take this stuff too close to heart. Games still sell and they sell good enough and that's about it. Just enjoy 'em :)
who cares. The games that you "hate" may also be other people's favorite games of all time so dont worry about it
@@JB-qu8pvI mean..
New Horizons was the saint video game during the pandemic. BDSP, a lot of new kids these days never played Sinnoh games before. Heck I'm now meeting kids that never heard of a DS. So really us that hate BDSP seem to be the minority of consumers.
@@NeoKat75 yeah exactly.That's why I try not to think about it. It's not worth it
I'm sitting on it, keep forgetting that I want to buy it. So this is a nice reminder. Arlo doing his part to continue promoting it!
maybe if it didn't cost $60
I think something that also has to be considered is that a lot of people who are massive fans of the game probably still have game cubes and they’re copy of the game somewhere and if they really wanna play it, they can just play it on the game cube some people probably didn’t want to get the new version because they still have theirs and it still works.mine broke years ago so I couldn’t play it and I wanted it on the switch for the portability and so my kid could play it someday but I’m sure a lot of people were just pretty happy with theirs that they already had
come on, Christmas sales, boost the numbers! I got TTYD as a gift, so I hope many other children get to experience that!!! (oh, no, Brothership is coming out; 3 Mario RPG's, and a new one at that... might not be good...)
Let’s not forget the newest Mario party is also coming out and that one is super hyped
Not with echoes of wisdom, and mario and luigi brothership
Technically speaking, this is an 18 minute video about a number for a video game, and I’m here for it 😂
“I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed.”
#DisappointedFarlo
Just had a thought: what if they're not testing these series against each other at all? What if they already knew that RPGs cater to a niche but passionate base, and they wondered "if we pump out fairly cheap and easy RPGs every 6 months, will this passionate fanbase consistently buy them? Will they get RPG fatigue?" I mean, Mariokart is great and all, but it might take more manpower to make. Plus they know that vocal, niche fans are important to their longterm success, even if the projects they adore aren't as profitable as the more mainstream items. RPG fans especially are kind of like paperback novel lovers: we don't expect a lot of innovation in every title and in fact we love to.see familiar/comforting tropes. A reliable 2 million in sales every 6 months can be a nice sustainer while other teams are working on riskier projects that may or may not be the next Mariokart.
Something to also consider is Super Mario RPG released in the holiday season, so it probably ended up as Christmas presents. It could be people are holding off for the holidays. The Oct-Dec quarter is one to look at, as it could be a secondary peak.
I mean, given we're still kinda in a worldwide recession (which people seem to be REALLY REALLY happy to forget, even though it's hugely important for why the numbers are the way they are), that's actually really good sales.
Hey Arlo! I wanna let you know that I got my copy with a game voucher. I don’t know about others, but this game’s release had me so hyped that I decided to go all out and get super Mario RPG with it. I have never played thousand year door, but I’ve heard such amazing things I figured it’s time. Absolutely loving it, as a fan of the n64 paper Mario I’m surprised I never played it.
I do worry that people may get burnt out on Mario RPGS, and that may attribute to the lesser sales when compared to Mario RPG, but at the same time, I think we gotta see how TTYD fares over the holiday season to truly know how it’s selling.
I blame vivian.
I didn't buy it because of Vivian.
I feel like any speculation falls short without knowing the budget. Especially with something like this, a vaguely intensive remaster-make.
I haven't bought it yet because I want to see if Switch 2 will be backwards compatible with visual and fps upgrades.
Im on the exact same side as you.
Well, not with the fps/visuals side, but because I dont want to buy a console that's outdated by the next year
@@shelvypigplayer1539why do you not care about objectively better playing experience
Oof, I've done that, twice! Once with the DSi XL and again with the NEW 3DS XL, I ended up getting the Switch at the end of its launch year as not to do it again!
@burritobison7700 Money and my lack thereof. (Also I run on the "1 game per chrismas" role)
Like dont get me wrong, I've heard of ttyd a lot on the internet and want to play it myself, but Im not even a nintendo person (not yet, at least) I've been a Playstation guy but I feel burn out by their realism team shooter slop coming out.
Tl;dr : poor, not huge nintendo fan
I think part of the problem is we got Orgami King and then Super Mario RPG right after. For a casual player, they might have already had enough Mario RPGs (or picked their one to try). Old heads like me might have already gotten their retro fix with the Super Mario RPG remake. Also, if your first Paper Mario was Orgami King, I understand why you might not want to try another one.
Censoring the game dialogue with something else doesn't help it sales either.
That’s only a factor for a minority of people, so i don’t see how it would affect sales to a meaningful degree
Even then i think it sold pretty well for 5 weeks, we should wait for a more reasonable amount of time before judging it properly
I think the main thing is that people still HAVE TYD. With Origami King, that was a brand new game; Super Mario RPG(the original) feels very outdated plus this version fixes a ton of stuff and adds new content. But for TYD, the original on gamecube, while hard to get, still holds up perfectly fine. I think that may be why it didn't do that well.
As a fan of all Mario RPGs, I worry about Brothership.
Having 3 in one year makes me happy, yet I don’t want them to cannibalize each other’s sales.
Brothership is releasing in the holiday season. I’m betting it will sell well simply because of that.
@@sahaprocks7751
That’s true, the Christmas season is likely to help.
I hope it sells enough to prevent a long wait between sequels.
@@jpbo98u don’t have to worry. If anything that game will probably take the attention away from paper mario since it comes out in time for Black Friday sales and it’s the newest Mario game
Honestly, I think the 30fps cap hurt the sales. If an original game runs at 60fps, then the remake should too.
It likely hurt the sales by like 10k units at most.
@@oscarzxn4067 I think it’s a lot more than that. Paying $60 for a game that runs at half the frame rate of original is a tough sell, no matter how beautiful it is.
@@Kudos2_Meyour right about the price. Why pay 60 for a game that I already own and with not that many changes other then visually, adding a few things etc when it still mostly the same game at the end of the day. If I was gonna pay 60 I rather it be a new game like what Mario and Luigi is doing
Not to be rude but I genuinely think that people whose favorite is Thousand Year Door are simply just louder. The sales data for the whole franchise doesn't support the idea that's the one title that is above others. I understand it's Arlo's favorite and many people's favorite but that doesn't change the reality of the broader market. (I bought all the Mario RPGs and continue to do so). I actually prefer the Mario & Luigi series to the Paper Mario series but love both.
I'm convinced that Mario RPG is just more popular AND had the benefit of the holidays.
Plus TTYD has competition in TOK which will cause people to not get it because they already have a Paper Mario.
I never got to play Mario and Luigi. I had a friend back then that talked to me about the series and even showed me his games. I was planning to get the new game of the series that was announced. I mostly knew of the Paper Mario series.
Bowser inside story was the peak of Mario RPGs
@redjackal7823 I wholeheartedly recommend them. I'm replaying the entire series on 3DS in preparation for Brothership. Just finished Partners in Time, Bowser's Inside Story next up.
Remember the game was released in gamecube and gamecube did not sold well
1.7 in 5 weeks sounds pretty good to me what were you expecting 20 million
I have three reasons why I didn’t buy it yet.
1) $60 full price for another old game.
2) I have a pretty bad game log. One of which is Elden Ring.
3) I’m old too, I still have my original copy.
How old are you?
Same, gaming is too competitive to justify remakes at full price.
Didn't even watch the vid yet, I just wanted to comment before I forgot... that this thumbnail made me laugh.
It’s also a little odd because Paper Mario has been an ongoing series that’s picked up new fans over the years, whereas Mario RPG was the only game of its kind. You’d think more people would flock to a franchise they’re more familiar with.
I feel like you cant comapre switches install base directly with other consoles since its market is so much younger on average. Kids dont buy as many games, they play way more free games. Outside of birthdays and Christmas a lot of kids dont really get more $60 games. That's two a year per kid using the console
Early summer release is good for birthdays but not christmas sales. I bet they see a second bump during the 2024 holiday season
I'm hoping that the Switch's successor help push Paper Mario's sales, especially with all those coding things we saw, I'm sure the 30 FPS crowd who didn't buy it because it wasn't 60 FPS will come around and get it thanks to this upscaling.
The problem with that is that the number of people who decided not to get it because it wasn’t 60 is an extremely small vocal minority. It’s not like a million people skipped the game over it; it’s really just a few Twitter users that probably wouldn’t have gotten the game anyway in most cases.
@@twosoup3252 Yeah I'm aware of that, but still it's something, and then there's the people who care about 4K (which I'm not lol), and based on the codes we found we can expect such an upscaling, and that's another crowd who might jump in to see the new power of the Switch 2.
If there's cope there's hope LOL
I'm kind of thinking it's stuck at 30 fps because of engine limitations.
If they don't release an update then it will also be 30 fps on the switch successor. Also (like arlo) i don't think that a lot of people don't bought the game because of the 30 fps. I mean maybe some thousands but not that much. And we allready saw a lot of PS4 games stuck at 30 fps on the PS5 because no update was released.
30fps did not affect sales at all really, its not gonna matter.
I just hope Brothership sells so that there will be at least one active Mario RPG series
60fps was a deal breaker for a lot of people
Heck my reason is because money and life has been really tight,so when I'm able I will be buying this for my switch lol