Talking About Paper Mario Has Become Kind of Awful
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2020
- Thanks to Gamefly for sponsoring this video! You can get 3 months of their 2-disc plan for only $9.95 a month through this link: www.inflcr.co/SH33A
I love talking about video games, and I love Paper Mario. But talking about Paper Mario isn't as fun as it used to be.
If you like what I do, please consider supporting me on Patreon!
/ arlostuff
TWOOTER: @ArloStuff
BOOKFACE: ArloStuff
This video was edited by the lovely Kane!
/ farfetchdreviews
Additional footage credits:
drive.google.com/file/d/1jchn...
"Reloaded Installer #11" by LHS.
/ @lhschiptunes - เกม
![[Vowel]물고기는 물에서 살아야 해🐟🤣Fish have to live in the water #funny](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3G9MH063Cx4/mqdefault.jpg)
"Twitter is exclusively my social media presence"
Well that was your first mistake my friend
To be fair, it doesn’t get much better anywhere else. It might even get worse, like on Facebook.
BrutalSax Twitter is one of the worst social media’s out there
@@thezombiefan777 Someone hasn't been to Reddit yet
Simply Tired it really is. But at the very least it’s limited to only one. There isn’t a good platform
You guys act like Twitter is some hellspawn; it's entirely dependent on who you follow. Also, literally any social media platform can be filled with toxicity
I've had someone refer to me as a member of the "TTYD Nazi Party" led by "Arlo Hitler." They were being completely serious.
Somewhat interesting considering the enemies in TTYD.
That is both amazing and stupid. I’m not sure how to react
Ngl that’s kind of hilarious tho
That's just awful, I feel bad for you!
fawful is an awesome youtuber and is in no way toxic. I can't believe someone would say such a thing.
Trying to have a civil discussion on Twitter is futile regardless of the subject matter.
When the website is essentially designed for toxic “discussion” then you don’t really have much to do about it.
What about shoes?
The lewd side of the site is surprisingly the most civil.
@@doesntexist9547 I've seen lewd stuff creep up in trending, and I agree that it's surprisingly chill from what I've seen - now I'm no lewd fan myself, the worst I usually see is people being disgusted that NSFW stuff was trending
True but I've met some good people on it and such.
The comments of this comment section contains:
50% of people talking about opinions of Paper Mario
35% of people talking about how Twitter is a bad platform
15% of people talking about how they haven't heard of GameFly in forever
50% is pretty high
obligatory 0.1% naming the percentages comments reply because that's an original joke
So the Mario fans are just having a taste of what Sonic fans used to be about their franchise?
@@whaleping Yeah...wait, "used to be"? The only thing Sonic fans can agree on is that he's blue. XP
Dullard D. Bones And that he doesn’t look like an abomination, remember that.
Though, even non-Sonic fans agree that he doesn’t look like an abomination (Pre-Movie release design).
I haven’t heard from GameFly in like 5 years. I can’t believe they randomly sponsored Arlo.
Edit: Apparently my comment was sponsored by GameFly as well. Thank you?
Ikr I remember seeing the commercials on tv years ago then I just completely forgot they existed until now
Blast to my Disney channel days
Sameeee
@@purpleghost9020 Bruh I kid you not where I live I see gamefly commercials quite frequently.
I started getting ads on YT a year ago from them. Haven't recently though.
Arlo: If I like less than half of the games am I a true fan?
Monkey Ball Fans: *sweats nervously*
Sonic the Hedgehog fans: First time?
i heavaly feel this damn
That's a bunch of pressure for me if I put myself in that situation.
Does the "true fan" argument even mean anything when most of the fans only like a few of the games?
Super Monkey Ball only has 3 main games, Adventure, 3 handheld games, Banana Blitz, & Step N Roll though. I enjoyed all the games in that series which I played personally. I only haven't played 1 of the handheld games, Step N Roll, & Deluxe. Super Monkey Ball's only game since Step N Roll was the HD Port of Banana Blitz, it's like several other abandoned Sega Series only it had more games than just 1-4. Remember Ristar, Nights, Burning Rangers, & a few others?
You don't even have to imagine that Splatoon scenario. Just think if Federation Force 2 was announced instead of Prime 4.
And incidentally, that scenario would make Tabata responsible for both series fundamentally changing for the worse (since Tanabe was also in charge of Federation Force, as well as Chibi Robo Zip Lash apparently).
Fed Force was a spinoff. Sticker Star to OK are sequels in the Paper Mario franchise. Fed Force was NEVER going to change Metroid for the worse. It was just a one off thing to try and flesh out the joke that is the Galactic Federation and maybe touch on the corruption thing from Fusion that only Other M decided to touch afterwards (though that game's plot takes place before Fusion chronologically).
EspurrsEyes42, yeah, it's like Hey Pikmin more than anything. Both of those games weren't going to change the franchise for the worst. They're just mediocre spinoffs.
@@espurrseyes42 That's why "imagine" is a key word here. A second Federation Force and suddenly it wouldn't be a spin-off anymore. It'd be its own series. And if Prime 4 wasn't being developed, they'd be the only Prime games to come out since 3. Reality is thankfully kinder to Metroid fans.
Federation Force Alpha Ex Plus 2: Championship Edition
"I like going online and complaining about games I haven't played."
- Francis, Super Paper Mario
Well to be honest i kinda did that but it was SAO so i don't feel bad about it
He was ahead of his time
Pretty much twitter with people saying TOK is automatically bad and people saying TTYD is bad when most of the people saying that most likely didn’t even try the game
@@luigissidekick861 IKR, I get irritated when someone says something about a game that is good/bad to them, when they didn’t even play it. They could’ve just said “it looks good/bad etc.” which makes sense but they can be honest.
I mean, I’m complaining how I literally can’t play Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door legally because NINTENDO WON’T FREAKING RERELEASE IT.
I don’t understand how he makes this puppet so expressive, like honestly, “If I don’t get some new games to play I... will... Die.” The eyes peer directly at you even tho they don’t move. I don’t get it, but I love it
Wait... so you're saying he's not ACTUALLY the puppet?!
... lies
Griffin Brown I mean we can never really know for sure, maybe the puppet is the one in controle of the flesh bag
@@KegaB3 Arlo is actually the puppet controling Arlo controlling the puppet controling Arlo controlli
Griffin Brown I believe it,
Also, Gryffindor pride my guy, I like it
@@KegaB3 Named after it my dude ;)
Everybody: *talking about Paper Mario*
Me: "... Gamefly is still relevant?"
In an age of $100 games (in Australian dollars), Gamefly is actually more relevant than ever.
@@HOTD108_ thats honestly very interesting, with all the game pass talk being tossed around and steam and psn monthly discounts? The next gen having disk-less versions? Granted stadia and ea's attempts were very poor, but gamefly hasn't been relevant in America for....i don't know how long, and with talks of us games possibly going up to 70 usd, which is roughly 100 aud, I dont think its going to be relevant in America for a while
granted my rural internet, which is horrible by American urban standards, is considered the average of Australia, so that too also kinda plays a fact id imagine
Yeah I thought they went bankrupt or something, lol
Man right I did not know that Gamefly was still a thing
Haven't seen an ad for them on TV since I was 9
So essentially the Paper Mario fanbase has become Anakin;
"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy!"
Only a sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.
except there are 2 of them. It's essentially like putting 2 of those talking tom apps next to each other and just seeing what happens.
In a weird way, they’re also like Obi-Wan. Both extremes believe they have the high ground 😂
Lol
@@iakan6937 “This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!”
You’d think assuming a neutral stance is the best stance to take in this situation, but nope. Instead of having both the critics and supporters at least understand with the points you make, you instead get flack from both parties. This “if you’re not with me, you’re against me” mentality really needs to die, but sadly it isn’t going to anytime soon.
I'm sure you've heard the expression, "those in the middle of the road are the most likely to get run over."
neutral stance is not the best stance
Being honest is. Say your opinion honestly and clearly, then watch the world burn.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
The worst part is that said mentality will only die when humanity dies.
@Mariophreak Middle Road is just a hunting ground in ALMOST EVERY CASE, NOW!!
There are three topics that would likely start a heated argument:
1. Politics
2. Religion
3. One's opinion on the Paper Mario games
@Darling Vexa Art the day stages were actually good, even if it was the beginning of the highly devisive "boost era", but the night stages sucked
Oh and the Pokemon games starting with X and Y and it really gets rough by time you get to Sword and Shield.
The Great Pumpkin
Politics and race, hardly anyone gives a crap about religious issues anymore.
Darling Vexa Art I wouldn’t really call that an unpopular opinion anymore. Most people have grown on it, especially given Forces’s mixed reception. Unleashed is in my top 5, for sure, and it desperately needs a PC port.
Arlo: "So they roll by just long enough to call me a whiny, entitled-"
TH-cam Ad: "-LETTUCE!"
I see the algorithm is improving...
MOOD
Yes please?
Timing is everything. Remember that!
I got the commercial for Pepsi! Am I doing something wrong? since late 2016 all I get is pepsi commercials over and over!
I must be important to them, maybe my hair needs fire...
Weird!
Discussing Paper Mario nowadays is like discussing politics.
True
Pen Bashiro, MD Ooh, that looks interesting.
It's worse. My brother in law is a socialist but I don't know if I could handle it if he was a Color Splash fan...
I think it is more of a start to a war. But nobody will be doing anything.
Or religion.
SMH everyone knows that Paper Mario is OBJECTIVELY a game.
EDIT: You're not a _REAL_ fan unless you enjoy one or more of the games!
@Darling Vexa Art Aw man, I love this joke that I started of everything everyone says here being correct facts that aren't opinions.
@Darling Vexa Art Nah man, I was just agreeing with you on that one totally objective non opinion at the end there (which by the way is a fact).
shit ive been thinking about a good addition to this for days
@Darling Vexa Art whoops wrong video
everyone knows that paper mario fans like both Mario and paper
I haven't watched the whole video but the Splatoon example, holy shit now I get how much bothering is for you damn, I'm sorry you deal with such big bummer
You can apply this to anything that has polarized the fan base. It's the reason why the pokemon fanbase as been so negative to Sword and Shield.
well the splatoon example was much more exgagerated than the reality of paper mario with the exception of sticker star, but he did make a great point in the first 2 differences lol
Its a really stupid comparison though, it has nothing to do with this case, there are areas where origami King is clearly better than TTY for instance, way more gameplay variety in Origami and way better pacing with no backtraking.
@@alejandropradalozano6525 you really just have no fucking clue how the old games even worked then.
DmC flash backs.
Twitter is suffering, return to the real world friend we miss you.
Oh yeah...COVID...
To be fair, the real world is kind of a shitshow now😅
@@ECL28E Nintwitter is a shit hole and it doesn't deserve Arlo. Him critiquing Nintendo already made him a target.
@@magnus5747 And Twitter emplefies the shit part
Twitter is still a thing?
"You're not a real fan if you like the new games."
"You're not a real fan unless you can accept ALL the games."
My experience with the Crash Bandicoot fanbase in a nutshell.
smh youre only a REAL fan if you have 3 blades that spin quickly using a motor for the sole purpose of cooling something down smh
@k ? I think people avoid using this argument in the Star Wars community because too many people dislike the prequels for it to make sense. I think more people take the opposite view, that liking the prequels or sequels makes you less of a fan.
Now that I think about it, being fan of art doesn't even make much sense. In the football world, you are a fan if you support a team and want to see them win, therefore a "real fan" is someone who always roots for their team even when their team is doing badly. However, art can't win or lose, it can only be enjoyed. Having the mentality that you must like all games or movies in a franchise, even when they're not as good as before, to be a real fan is just silly. You will respond to some positively and to others negatively, you really can't decide what you're going to like.
Perhaps they want us to accept all OLD Games?
@@anhilo9716 Uhhhmmm acksually my ceiling fan has 5 blades? What is it not a REAL fan? Hmmmm?
"I like Crash 4: it's about time. That is my answer to that statement."
One thing nobody mentions about the Paper Mario games: They have amazing translations. I'm Spanish, but I prefer to play most games in English nowadays. Except for Paper Mario. This doesn't have much to do with anything, I just thought I would mention it
Yeah I agree. Except Sticker Star, I feel every Paper Mario game localization translators are good. I'm not sure how they do it, but they are doing it right. That's one thing consistent throughout the series. The writing is good.
How do you make Sticker Star have good writing?
Anyone who can do that given the bare story is a beyond-masterful localizer.
When you don't respect your own language...
And use the most spoken language only because it's the most spoken and overrated language and ironically, I'm writing in that language now.
@@mep6302 As a Russian I somewhat agree. I prefer things I watch and play to be in Russian.
You realize the English is a translation right?
Arlo: “Talking about Paper Mario has become kind of awful.”
Me: looks over at Aramaru, Dave Mathew, and Mr. Hater.
“You have a point.”
Dude I was thinking the exact same thing as soon as I saw this video pop up 😂☠️
Who are they?
@@DoctorSargeMD The longest and angreist comment thread on youtube started on a paper mario video and moistcr1tikal made a video on it
Aramaru just wanted to be pissed in peace
that was only 0.1% paper mario and 99.9% dave referring to people as insects
I'm seeing a lot of people accuse me of making generalizations about "supporters," but I think a lot of you are forgetting that I'm not talking about REASONABLE supporters in this video. As with the "critics," I'm talking about the most extreme, fanatical examples. Obviously lots and lots of TOK fans have played the old games, and many of them are being super civil. But I personally rarely (if ever) see a fanatical, anti-TTYD supporter say they've played the old games. Heck, very often they haven't even played TOK, they just like to fight with people they think are being annoying. Point is, if you're having a civil discussion about any of this, you're not the kind of person I'm talking about in this video.
Also, it's come to my attention that the audio in this video is a little quiet. Sorry about that, must have been some kind of editing mix-up we didn't notice. Honestly, based on past experience, there is a 98.3% chance it was my fault, LOL.
No problem. But to be fair, sword and shield sucked.
Me sees the sponsor for GAMEFLY •_• hey that’s pretty good
Arlo please stop using twitter. It’s such a horrible website that brings nothing but negative emotions. Please Arlo, you deserve to be happy so get out of twitter. It’ll work wonders for your own happiness.
Hard not to let the negativity get to you but hope everything is well Arlo!
Me: *peacefully sitting in bed watching Arlo at a moderate volume*
Ad: Fog horn.
the best part of this, is this can be applied to ANYTHING involving a debate.
Actually it's an argument, by definition it's not a debate, unless you're going by presidential debate standards then it definitely is
"The era of the internet" made it so every opinion is now a sports team, where you defend it no matter what at any cost because you tie your identity to it, if someone doesn't like what you like or disagrees wtih you they're personally attacking you and everything you believe in and you have to stand up for what you know is the real and only option! Happens in meaningless things like sports or fandoms and happens in more important things like politics, there's no room for middle ground or room for nuanced conversations. So pick your teams and have fun fighting everyone else who clearly choose the wrong one.
Sad.
yeppp… that’s basically what’s happening now with paper mario
You can like The Origami King
You can not like The Origami King
You can still be a fan of the series regardless of the games you like.
Just stop throwing insults at each other.
Color Splash years were terrible, we don’t want a repeat of that.
@@crunchytacosupreme1597 Because it's a 30 minute old comment?
you dont like color splash? youre part of the problem.
@Jade Fire That is _not_ what they said. They were talking about the fanbase during Color Splash’s release.
Sticker Star years were even worse.
sticker star was worse though
I'm... very shocked Gamefly is still alive o.o
Me too, I remember when they sent you discs like Netflix used to! Might consider it for next gen, since I have less time to play games now and it's a bit hard to justify spending 60-70 dollars on a game that I might not even get to play very much.
I didn't know they still existed either!
@@dianaburn2474 pretty sure netflix still sends discs, it's a different plan but they have a waaaay bigger library in that plan. My movie buff friend has that plan. It's good for people like my friend who are into the history of the film indusy. They have almost all the old classic Hollywood movies
Yeah I thought they had gone the way of Blockbuster lmao
They're crap now. I tried to order Mario Kart 8 Deluxe from them for Christmas a few years ago but they fucked up and gave it to me TWO WEEKS LATE! I just gave up and bought the game.
Having a civil discussion on the internet is so dang difficult. I really hate the culture we have developed. It's not great
"Not great" is an understatement. Of course you have actual sensible people here that are willing to be civil, but they feel outnumbered by the vast amount of douchebags looking to stomp on any differing person they come across
Here's a tip: calling people out about their flawed arguments. They'll slowly change their argument style so they dont look stupid, I may just be dumb and inexperienced, but in past arguments it's always worked so
@@cosamallender3276 You're damn lucky if that strategy has worked. Usually it leads to the other person ignoring your comment entirely, since the average internet user is deep enough in their own ego to rather plug their ears and walk away than admit their own mistakes
I can’t say that color splash is good without causing WWpaper
It's not great? Correction, it's unhealthy
TTYD is one of my favorite games of all time, and I still love Origami King.
That is all.
@Shinjuru Ryu Guru We do exist. Granted, I do see them as two very different games that I like in different ways, but that was also true of SPM when I first played.
WRONG!!!!1!!1 1000 YEAR DOR IS OBJEKTIVELY THE BEST IN TE SEREES!1! ITS BETTR THAN THE OTHES BCUZ ITS ACCTUALY GUD!!1! AND I THINK SO AN MY OPINION MATTERS MOST
Your speeding gives me a rash oh my fucking god 🤨
Tyd is my favorite game of all time but I the other game look fine but sticker star is bad that I decided to skip the next two games which I might tried them but sticker stats is bad
"Impossible"
8:11 "Here's sixty bucks!"
...t-that's one hundred and eighty-six bucks...
Arlo: “This video is sponsored by GameFly”
Me: “Haven’t heard this name in like 6 years”
I used to see commercials for it all the time on Cartoon Network.
I can't believe they exist
I always got pissed when it would come on after an episode of gumball
yea me too and it’s kinda out of order as of now asvif you want to try out a game and return it just buy it online and delete it afterwards if you don’t like it it’s literally replaced game fly at this point no offense
"obviously at the end of the day none of this matters too much"
Pretty much sums up all yt drama
Fans of the Sonic Adventure and Hironobu Sakaguchi Final Fantasy games: "Welcome to the club, Arlo."
Oh man. As a long time sonic fan that kind of lost interest at heros and got back in at generations... This is a very accurate comparison.
I don't hate any of the new (not broken) sonic games but adventure 1 and 2 just seemed so much more... Immersive, cohesive and feature rich for a sonic game and I mostly just wanna see the series get back to the rediculous hype days of the dreamcast
@@danswope Indeed, and I have the feeling that those games were like that because Sega threw all of their remaining resources and talent to them, particularly using the first Adventure to demonstrate all of the Dreamcast's various features. Also at that point in time, Sonic games being Sega hardware exclusives for the most part and original Sonic the Hedgehog fans growing up, it was the exact time to make ambitious games that targeted a slightly older demographic.
@@ChaosAngelZero I gota say I agree entirely.
Just an aside, I think longing for the adventure days is what made me feel so catfished by forces and I kinda feel like Sega knew what they were doing there.
Yeah, we know how it feels. Sonic fans especially
And starfox
8:11 Arlo: "Here's my 60 bucks!"
Also Arlo: sticks out $186
I just figure Arlo Money works like dog years, where he thinks it's the same amount 😁
It’s like pricing things for Australia, you add an extra $126 and you have the cheap version
I noticed that too. I'm a bit worried he's forgotten how to do basic maths..
@@Underestimated37 I understand that pain
i think he overpaid
"Nope, you're nitpicking and biased. I win, bye bye!"
Darn if only they didn’t state that they won, I would’ve gotten the upper hand
MASTAPEEECE
Aaaayyy
You'd think he called SUPAH MARIO BRUDDAHS 2 not game of the year or something
DAMN IT!.. you win again...
12:44 HERE. THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE.
Exactly
I have to disagree. It's not fair to assume something like that. It sends this message that "everyone that played the old games has to automatically dislike the new ones" and that simply isn't true. Some people don't like RPGs. That's reality.
@@swishfish8858 true
Swish Fish.
I agree with you, because I have actually played all 6 games, and The Origami King is my favourite.
In fact, The Thousand-Year Door is my 5th favourite out of the 6.
And Colour Splash is my 3rd favourite.
Who can guess my least favourite, my 4th favourite and my 2nd favourite?
Also, I love all the Paper Mario’s.
@@MarioLandscape same here. Ive played them all and TTYD isnt all that. My favorite is origami king
Arlo, I think the problem isn't necessarily people, its because Twitter is an awful platform that encourages people to act like this
Darling Vexa Art Real shame. Posting art is the only thing Twitter is good for.
@@bendykirby4828 Deviantart is better for that. So there is no reason to use twitter.
@@TheLegoMaster261 Pretty much. Though I'd argue DeviantArt is a hellhole in its own right
@Darling Vexa Art i got account locked yesterday for explaining game mechanics
No. It’s the users on there. It’s not like they actively promote that behavior.
> Twitter is where I have most of my discussion
There's your problem, Arlo. Twitter is just a cesspool of crap, it's short message nature is not conducive to long form, thought out discussion. At best, it's good for snippy hot takes that ruffle some feathers, but also get people thinking and talking.
If you want to actually discuss things, do it literally anywhere else.
*EDIT:* Some people are fairly pointing out that it's not something that is limited to twitter, so I'll elaborate a bit:
Twitter is a breeding ground for toxic behavior because of the nature of the website. Yes these problems happen elsewhere, and arlo addresses most of the core concerns of that in the video. I'm just pointing out how using twitter, especially *exclusively,* is exasperating the problem.
Hear hear!
Couldn't have summarized it better.
While this is true, the fact he got the same kind of discussions in his TH-cam comments is telling on how awful it is to discuss Paper Mario :/
You dropped this, Billy 🥚
@@ThatOneDudeWhoPostsStuff Arlo wants a echo chamber of people agreeing with him. When he called himself a whiny entitled fan boy, he's stelling the truth.
@@666slateran666 He's explained plenty of times how and why this isn't the case. Also, he likes the Origami King.
I'm a simple woman. I see "Paper Mario", I click.
lollykills good job simple woman
women arent real
Does that make you............. a simp?
@@thisistheplan414 can confirm you're 100% correct. I'm just perpetuating the conspiracy to keep people in the dark.
Women don't exist though?
This video aged like a fine wine after the Steve in Smash reveal, and everyone's doing the EXACT SAME THING
Videos don't age. People do. So your whole comment is wrong.
@@mep6302 Huh?
The Smash community has been like this for years. This is nothing new.
@@mep6302 Wrong. Time is relative.
@@mep6302
Technically, videos do age. That's why there's a timestamp for when it was uploaded.
I hope the Origami King supporters give Thousand Year Door a chance. As an Undertale fan, I know that a fandom can completely turn people away from playing a really good game, and that's the last thing I want to happen to anyone.
@@bandicootsauce4569 Way to do exactly what Arlo was criticizing in the vid.
@@bandicootsauce4569 That's because you ARE being toxic, calling people c*nts for liking the new games (which I don't btw) and then accusing me of "harassing" you for calling out your toxic behavior, followed by you gaslighting me by attempting to lump me in with the supporters Arlo called out in this vid. You started the confrontation with the name calling; don't be surprised when someone bites back when you antagonize them. Push comes to shove. Arlo didn't harass anyone in this vid; all he did was call out toxic BS. I'm doing the same to you.
@@platformperil1853looks like he was blocked by arlo. Good.
I will for certain! Loved Paper Mario 64 and Origami King (not as much but still had fun).
Always wanted to try PM:TYD but I can't play on emulation and can't justify spending $$$$ for a game (no matter how much I love it).
Definitely excited for this game!
Member of the ToK cult here, I played Thousand Year Door about a year ago and thought it was a very good game. It’s overhyped to oblivion but it’s still a great RPG that every fan should play at least once. Some of the fans can be…vocal…about the game and will use it to criticise ToK (my beloved), but I seriously think it should be on every paper mario fan’s “played” or “to play” list.
I really hope people don’t misread the title and miss the first two words.
SAME
How could you miss the words "paper Mario" when reading the title?
"Talking About How Paper Mario Has Become Kind Of Awful"
well... it is true.
For me a line is crossed when "Objectivity" gets thrown into the mix and used as a weapon. In general, I've come to despise that term because people assume it automatically validates them. Just saying something is objective doesn't make it so, and to me when people claim their take is "objective" it actually invalidates their argument a little bit.
I firmly believe that games are art, and like any art design philosophy is subjective and will never please everyone. Disagreements are inevitable. Some people just want to see the same formula refined to higher quality. Others want a radically different experience every time. Some people don't even like any of the games. Any fanbase is like this, and it usually stems from a singular title that is considered the "divergence point". Elder Scrolls has the argument of the series dumbing down since Morrowind. Smash Bros has the argument of the series being more casual since Melee. Final Fantasy now has a divergence since the games are usually action-oriented and no longer turn-based.
I myself give every game a chance, even if I have a favorite. This is another problem I see: That unless the golden standard is surpassed, a new game is trash. Some people enjoy Origami King but will say they like TYD better. For the vocal minority, however, it's all or nothing. I mean, if I can't enjoy something that exceeds my best experience that I would never enjoy another 2d platformer because I still thing Yoshi's Island is the absolute best in that category. What I can respect from you Arlo is that while critical of the new game's direction, you will still give credit to aspects that are actually good and enjoyable. That's what we need more of; people that will be honest with not only others, but themselves. The "flawless or garbage" stance is too common in discourse, to the point that I also get grouped into an extreme category even when I often stand in the middle on something.
I have never been in love with a comment this much before. I utterly _despise_ the use and abuse of "objectivity" in opinionated discussions.
As far as I'm concerned, some opinions can be objective, but if someone claims their opinion is objective and can't prove it, they should not call their opinion such. It isn't.
@@delta3244 This, neither subjectivity nor objectivity can be used as a shield without proper evidence and argumentation.
Hiding behind subjectivity when the other side has true evidence for their case, is just as bad as just throwing objectivity around.
@@delta3244 For me the problem then is how some people go about opinion vs. fact. Is something just your opinion or is it a an actual fact? What's the metric standard? Is it because the majority agree with you? Does that mean any minority in any community is simply wrong? Opinion and objective don't go together. If an opinion is objective, it's not an opinion- it's a fact. You can explain your opinions and lay down arguments and examples for your perspective, but they are still just one person's take on a piece of media.
All opinions are subjective. Saying that TOK is a good or bad game is a subjective opinion, no matter the reasoning. Saying that TOK has seriously diverged from the origins of the series is an objective fact. No one can deny how much the direction of the Paper Mario series has shifted, it simply has. It's almost in a different genre now. Whether or not the series is still good, that all comes down to personal preference and what people want from their experience.
My point is that people trying to claim "Objectivity" when it comes to games are often trying to really claim some sort of moral high ground to insist that you can't disagree with their take. It's an attempt to deflect any counter before it's even made. That's really the problem with this entire critic vs. supporter debacle: Both extremes insist they are objectively right, when in reality neither can be.
@@delta3244 not really no.
To tell the truth if they just changed the name of Paper Mario when Tanabe took over it wouldn't been an issue, because like Teen Titans, I don't think it's reasonable to compare the originals to Go!, seeing they have both different story styles and audiences.
The fact that Tanabe said the series ORIGINALLY is all about the paper, means he fundamentally misses the point why the original game was made. And if you remove a fundemental the blocks on top will already be flawed to those who have the same fundamental belief as the original games.
Think about it: if they kept the WarioLand name for the WarioWare games, which has a different gameplay and more focused on select characters than an explorative world typically with only Wario, I wonder what the conversation would be.
its a wonder why people havent broken to his house and throw stuff at him yet for all the horrible things he's done. one day we'll look back at this man and say ; "f**k him".
@k ? well not getting fired that harsh and possible ruin his life. Especially how hiring works there
I can compare that this video to how the RWBY Fanbase acts and feels.
@@ericwijaya2119 worse than hitler
Anhilo And Stalin
Twitter once again proving that it's the worst, most vile, and trashiest place on the internet.
The people who didn't watch the video are the people who need to see it the most.
@@the9der352 You misclicked I think
@@algo985 whoops
So true. I wish I could just make people watch this video sometimes
Pokemon,Star Wars and Paper Mario are the franchises that aren't fun to talk about anymore
Agree
Unless it’s the Star Wars TV shows because they managed to not fuck those up.
@@shranos2112 I enjoyed them too
... The first time I played.
Then I could see all the flaws...
I'd still enjoy 'em though
@@shranos2112 I loved them. Most of the issues people were complaining about were silly or non existent. That isn't to say there aren't flaw, there are, just not ones that are too big of deals like reusing Haus animations and such
@@shranos2112 Agreed. Are the games flawed? Absolutely. My biggest disappointment was them not fleshing out the later gyms (biggest example would probably be the 7th gym), and how certain points felt very rushed. But i still really enjoyed swsh. That's what I wish people would understand, a game can have flaws and can still be liked by plenty of people.
I’ve seen some of the fights going on in the comments and want to say this: part of the problem is that when companies make something that is part of a series, the intent is to cash in on the fact that there are fans of the others. For example: if “The Last Jedi” had not been apart of a previous series or continuity, or had been framed as a possible future and not the definitive events that followed, there would have been way less backlash. I think that if TLJ had not been sold or marketed as the continuation of Star Wars and as it’s own thing it would have been a better movie without the backlash. I think the same could have been said of any series that takes a drastic turn. From Paper Mario to The Legend of Zelda. It also doesn’t help that Nintendo seemed so good at listening to the fans back in the mid 2000’s. When fans complained that TLZ: Wind Waker was childish and not what they wanted, they made Twilight Princess. One game was complained about a little bit and Nintendo made a game for the fans that was more like what they wanted. I’m just saying that the fan’s shouldn’t be blamed for not liking something when they don’t like it, but should be held accountable for scaring people away from a franchise or series they love because they don’t like a part of it.
I think this whole attitude towards sequels could be a culture on its own. It goes far beyond Star Wars or Nintendo.
Fanbases for inappropriate and violent games: happy and peaceful
Fanbases for kids games: war,criticts and defenders
Yeah nothing more civil happy and wholesome than a regular-old call of duty/cs:go chat
Spend a couple minutes in a CoD lobby on xbox and you'll delete this
*le Call of Duty has entered the chat*
“Let’s say you love splatoon”
You know me too well.
Arlo: Shows Gamefly
Me: *has Gamefly commercial flashbacks*
I didn't even know they still existed.
@@stanthebuilding8273 u and me both
“flashback intensifies”
@@spimtmot733 I probably should have used that comment template instead :p
The internet for DECADES now is just one big case of the loudest angriest people turning it into the ultimate example of “One bad apple spoils the bunch”. Ugh.
but what happens if a bunch of bad apples grow from that one bad apple's seed.
In summary: The problem isn't about the critics, or the supporters. The problem isn't with one side of that line. The problem is with people on either side who are taking these views to the extreme and lashing out in hatred at anyone who doesn't immediately agree with them entirely. Sadly, this isn't unique to paper mario, or even video games. Almost any major controversial topic being discussed on the internet will have something like this going on
So politics?
@@thefrubblewarrior4678 very much so, yes
@@thefrubblewarrior4678 I would have said pineapple on pizza; but I guess that one's up there, too.
People need to learn to allow people to dislike games, I even liked sticker star but I don't get frustrated whenever anyone says they don't like the game because there's an actual reason for and most people aren't hating just for the sake of hating
I actually REALLY liked Sticker Star! Its actually -- and I could get CRUCIFIED for saying this -- my favorite game of the series. Granted, I have only experienced the other Paper Mario games via let's-play but haven't been compelled enough, by watching gameplay, to actually PLAY them myself. (Also, personally, I don't prefer games that have a lot of dialogue; I'm more of a gameplay-focused, casual gamer.) Also, I kinda knew, before playing Sticker Star, the solutions to some of the more obtuse puzzles (which there definitely are a handful of). But the game, overall, just had a lot of charm to me; it fit me really well.
Though I do recognize that it has flaws, I, unlike you, actually DO get a little frustrated whenever anyone lambasts the game, decrying it as nothing more than an "irredeemable game with absolutely NO good qualities about it". As someone who really appreciates the game for what it is, I just hear those sentiments far, far too much!
@@alkankondo89 I love sticker star too!!
Yeah it's the same for me, I adore the original PS1 Spyro trilogy more than any other games in the world.. But I really didn't like a lot of the decisions and directions made with the Reignited Trilogy.. But ever since RT has come out I find it hard to be able to talk to others about Spyro without them getting violent just because I don't praise the remakes like they're God's gift. I have found a few places where I can talk about Spyro without causing backlash just because I don't love the remakes, but there's also a lot of places I almost can't go to anymore because of it.
It's just unfortunate really.
@@bobafettarchives7666 Haha, cool! Sticker Star fans UNITE (... all 10 of us... 😅)!
@@cookiesontoast9981 I can support that. I never played the originals, but though I liked the game’s overall art direction, there’s plenty of nasty bugs, especially in Spyro 3. Those skateboards are made of toothpicks.
You need to watch CGP Grey’s “This video will make you angry.” It explains why this stuff happens and knowing why has helped me deal with these kinds of people.
I second that motion. In fact everybody should watch every single one of CGP Grey's videos. 10\10, would recommend.
Third the motion.
Don't forget the fact that it always devolves into a "You're immoral" finger pointing fight. One time I was expressing that I wasn't exactly upset about Mario 3D Allstars being limited, and when I explained my thought process I was told that I was "blaming the consumer" and there was one guy who thought he was a master of logic and flipped everything I said back onto me to try to "disassemble" an argument I wasn't even making in the first place. All I did was express how I felt and I was immediately demonized by people I didn't know. It was pretty funny.
I think he mentioned this in the video. Around 7:03 I think
Tell me about it, another knee jerk reaction I love is “you’re anti consumer” like no, I just don’t think it’s that bad. You can think differently from me.
@@darthgamer9861 yeah, my reaction to that is always "Ami Consumer? But I AM a consumer." Then again I guess it's easy to forget that when they're upset that not everyone has the same opinion.
Lots of Nintendo fans are bad enough, but the haters are something else. They like to think we're brainwashed sheep that lack critical thinking skills just because we choose to spend our money on games that _they_ deem as bad.
Like, yeah, Mario 3D All Stars for example looks like a lazy-ass port, but they make it look like people are giving money to some evil corporation that, say, abuses its employees when they buy it. _It's just a game, folks._
@@bendykirby4828 yeah, I get the games I know I'll enjoy. I plan out all my video game purchases very intricately because I almost never trade off the games I get. Then again, these are the same people that judge every aspect about you based on your personal taste in media.
We have healed
Stuff like this has actually become the main reason I stopped using Twitter, the place is such a cesspool of arguing that it just stopped being fun for me.
Ew Twitter.
Get off Twitter. Start using forums instead. The Twitter format is fundamentally flawed.
I have never used Twitter really, & it seems Arlo has found the "No Respect for Neutrality" that extremists on both sides share. Personally I have better things to do than to explain why Thousand Year Door is the best Paper Mario & why Origami King was great to a bunch of crazy people on the internet. The country I'm in is on the verge of war over this huge election between the Nazipublicans & Bidenists. It's not the internet, it's the times we're living in.
After using Twitter for a few months, 4chan seems tame now by comparison. That site really lowered my faith in humanity... had to stop using the site so I didn't lose all of it.
@@ikeshrafter It's the fact that anonymity thrives on 4chan & they tend to keep to themselves while people on Twitter can choose to be anon or not and get rewarded and go borderline viral for being nasty and flippant. It's such an awful platform and I hate the herd mentality on there... but we're all on there so we do it to ourselves.
This is what always happens with "internet discourse." You can't expect reasonable conversation when virtually anyone is able to chime in.
The Paper Mario community will crumble like the Atlanta Falcons.
I love the nostalgia blind argument since I actually played TTYD after Origami King and yeah, that game provides a fond experience Origami King just refuses you.
Also I'm not on Twitter but I wonder if it's still anywhere as bad as it was 2 years ago.
Yeah let's just forget about toxic Paper Mario and instead talk about Sma-
*Steve gets revealed for Smash and divides the community*
Oh god dammit
Idk why so many people are against it
@@thelightningboi8758 I've gotten over it by now and if you like Steve being in the game that's cool, but it's just kinda jarring to me. So many other games that have good charachters to pick and they pick one from a fad game with akward charachter design. Minecraft has never appealed to me because of that it's just not fun to look at for me. Now there are still four other slots left and that's why I can live with it. All it means is that i treat Steve the same way as Wario and Peach, if I see him I'm going to beat the crap out of him so hehe good luck with that.
@@Cloud-dt6xb well to be honest it’s not really much of a fad game but more of a cultural phenomenon
I mean anyone can recognize Steve and Minecraft and he has unique mechanics with a lot of references to his game
its a virus! i swear!
The problem is that the new Paper Mario games these days sucks so dang much. Paper Mario 64, TTYD, and SPM are the only pretty good ones in the Paper Mario series.
"you're just a ttyd fan"
Me, who likes spm the most,: ah yes, ttyd
Everyone else would tell you to pick a damn side lol. Good on you though, that’s a fun one
While I like ttyd, I also have to say that spm is by far my favorite.
Me, who hasn't even played TTYD, only 64 and Super. "Umm, No?"
Sort of like Pokemon Genwunners 😂😂
Meanwhile SPM was the start of the downfall of the series for me and I hated it. I love the original Paper Mario. TTYD is mechanically superior but I felt it lost some of the charm of the original. Then it's been nothing worth my time ever since.
Muh GenWun.
“a company that’s abusive to its employees”
*activision & blizzard logos on screen*
DAM RITE ARLO thank u for calling them out haha
Literally everyone thinks this, sell isn’t like a brave hero calling out the hidden flaws of a loved company
Holy fucking shit Arlo predicted the future yet again!
The word "objective" should never be near anything artistic. Things that are objective are things like "2 + 2 = 4" or "water is liquid". How we perceive anything is not objective, because none of us look at any given thing the same. We can all look at the same picture and have radically different feelings about it.
When it comes to design philosophies, there's nothing objective there either. They're stepping stones that we made up that should theoretically make something more enjoyable. And they work, for sure, but they're definitely no formula for making something objectively good.
A game could be the most objectively well designed game ever made but I could still dislike it because the setting is medieval fantasy while I prefer modern settings or sci Fi or something like that. Even beyond that, sometimes things just don't hit you the way they should, or sometimes they do when they haven't for many others. Especially true for videogames where everyone has a different experience
Underrated comment imo
I mean, pain is objectively meant to be negative feedback, but there are masochists. I would not say that subjectivity outrules objectivity entirely. But you are right that we should have no unnessesary beef over this.
@@lpfan4491 well then pain isn't objectively bad. You're describing how someone feels about an experience, and all matters like that are subjective. Objectivity only happens when it's not an opinion
@@daniellaniganohara2456 I dunno, isn't the body said to respond to pain to warn something is harmful, sounds pretty objective, unless some in society has interpreted it as "good" I guess.
@@zjzr08 put it this way, the fact that it's a mechanism for warning you is objective, whether or not it feels good is subjective. Working out is a very popular thing, which is basically just damaging yourself so your body can equipt you better for next time. A lot of why people like working out though has to do with the adrenaline rush
Loving these videos coming up again since PMTYD remake was announced.
Super excited to finally have an opportunity to try this game that has been held up high. I have no idea what the story is about but still super excited.
As for the argument: "¿Porque no los dos?"
As a huge splatoon fan, the analogy was really good and now I'm scared
They better not...
Hey maybe it can be like Mario Party and it would be "cool" to talk trash on a bad new direction.
PipeGuy64Bit still not worth it. I have 1130 hours on the game and am on a competitive team so
Never played Splatoon, looks pretty fun, maybe I'll pick it up during the holidays.
*shudder*
As a splatoon fan, your example was truly terrifying
And the sad fact is that he's just channeling reality. Many game series do most of what he described, give or take a tiny bit of exaggeration.
agreed as splatoon 3 released last year and i thought to myself if they took away the things i loved about octo expansion and didn’t put it in splatoon 3 i would listen to that type of argument i would have been livid as would most people
I belly-laughed at the end when Arlo said "nothing will compare to the storm when the review drops...". The silent gaze off to the side was just too funny. I really hope people can calm down and listen objectively to your opinion for both sides of the argument. And also I'm really looking forward to the upcoming Origami Review. Just finished my own review and I'm excited to compare my opinion with whatever your opinion may be!
Fun Fact:
The biggest TH-cam reply chain I've seen was on a Paper Mario video.
The greatest battle of the TH-cam comment section
I've never related to a a title less because 99% of my paper mario info and discussion comes from Arlo videos, also known as dopamine machines
Now that I've watched it I wish this video was required viewing for absolutely everyone on the internet
Me: **Has an opinion**
The internet: “Splish splash, your opinion is trash”
Unfortunately, you're making a generalization of the internet when you say that.
@TSnintendogamer And sadly some support your preferred side badly. The dangers of sharing any opinion online...
Generally that's what happens when engaging in discussion or trying to make a point.
Expect people to chime in and challenge your opinions.
Ced von Noish lots of people that disagree with your point try to make it clear. That’s why I was assuming the whole internet was like that in my joke. Most, if not all of people trying to get attention will be critical of what your saying.
Twitter in a Nutshell
Same with Sonic. Right now I'm being told off for liking forces and supporting the split timeline on the sonic fandom.
Stuff sucks man.
I really didn't like Forces, but I think its still bullshit to attack someone for liking it since **gasp** different people with different personalities have different tastes.
I like Forces if viewed as a single game. If viewed as a franchise, the story is pretty terrible.
Honestly, I want to play all the Paper Mario games, because I’ve only played Origami King and Super, because I don’t have a Wii U.
“You’re not a REAL fan!”
The phrase that keeps all reboot lovers awake at night.
I never liked saying something like that. What gives a person the right to gatekeep other people from stating what they think of a topic if they say it respectfully. Just because we don't support everything a company does doesn't make us "fake fans".
@@clamthechef2389 I believe this "you're not a TRUE __" is called the No True Scotsman Fallacy because at this point, is anyone a true anything? You would have to define what a true __ is and why the definition you give is the best definition, which very few do, and it's usually just met with "I disagree with what a true __ is" anyway, so yeah, the whole "argument" is just a waste of time spent being salty
@@clamthechef2389 "What gives a person the right to gatekeep other people" Time committed to and their want to keep a franchise alive and healthy. If a franchise is based on stuff X, and new people want stuff Y, and want franchise to drop stuff X to cater to stuff Y -- then... they aren't a true fan of the franchise. Too much gatekeeping is toxic, but so is 0 gatekeeping.
that "what makes a fan" is probably the one part i disagree with Arlo on.
@@dragar0th that does make sense. There does need to be order and stability in order to keep the franchise good, while weeding out any of the small bad eggs.
Which is why I refer to myself as a Long-Time or Casual Fan than being labeled as a "True/Real" Fan of anything. Apparently I'm supposed to believe someone calling themselves a Real/True Fan is opposed to Aggressively Disliking and/or Liking a certain Media from a beloved Franchise where you have to Agree with that said person which I find to be ASININE if you ask me.
That Splatoon analogy.... really got to me. If it _wasn’t_ obvious, I’m a Splatoon fan, love it to bits. I think of myself as civil and an open discussioner, tried to have a discussion with a friend about Origami King, but he kept putting words in my mouth when I was just playing devil’s advocate. I understand both sides, even though I’m a critic. To see the series you love change for the worse and continue to stick to what’s not working while constantly criticized and insulted for liking how it originally was......... sounds like hell. To be shunned because you care about it and want it to be the best it can.... god it sounds horrible. I’m not a huge Paper Mario fan, but I am a Nintendo lover and I know and care about nearly all of their IP’s. A series I _was_ a huge fan of, one that brought so many amazing, unforgettable memories for me, was the Mario & Luigi series. It... it’s really important to me for so many reasons, so I can understand how others can have that same feeling towards the Paper Mario series. I want Paper Mario to truly embrace its past, make Mario Story 4. That’s what I want, and I think many others. I don’t want another Mario series to disappear... this is the biggest one left.....
Love what you love, and be civil when discussing your opinions
Splatoon analogy was complete ass imo like he basically said, "imagine being a Splatoon fan and then Nintendo releases Splatoon 3 and all the fun is gone" this is a completely biased analogy since it's clear to anyone that the concepts and ideas he provided are clearly intended to be viewed as just a worse variation, not a different one, honestly the worst part of the video by far.
@@Cakiso "it's clear to anyone that the concepts and ideas he provided are clearly intended to be viewed as just a worse variation" That's how it FEELS for many new critics, a clearly worse variation. The point of the analogy isn't to represent both sides of the situation accurately, it's to help the new supporters understand how the new critics FEEL, and it has to be a more overt and exaggerated version of the real situation in order to accomplish that.
I’m glad you can see that. I played Super Paper Mario, having tons of nostalgia, and the same for M&L Dream Team. I loved Super Paper Mario because of its amazing story and somewhat gimmicky but still fun gameplay. It took what I loved about 2D Mario and added all sorts of cool stuff that put New Super Mario Bros. Wii to shame. I know that I while this may not be a reliable way to base my opinion, I think of myself as a critic when I try to think of a Super Paper Mario story with Mario and Luigi Gameplay. And I know TTYD is even better, due to things like partners and how every move is like a mini game.
I'll settle this: Mario RPG should take over the series. There everybody wins. Edit: someone stuffed me in their trunk help
You forgot to edit the comment lol
@@papermarioparty08 No no they didn't even need to publish the comment to get kidnapped
Shock! SHOCK! That a platform like Twitter, that literally has a character limit that necessitates overgeneralizations and "hot takes", should result in polarized discussions where neither side is able to engage in subtlety or nuance... (Pssst! The medium IS the message...)
PS: For the record, good video and points well made!
EXCEPT: Calling people out for gross overgeneralizations, and then arguing that most fans of the modern games "probably" have not played the old games. Very much undermines your argument.
This is the kind of political news I like of hear.
Yeah, who needs Donald Trumps?
@@otakumarcus Who needs Oblivion npc Biden either?
I don’t belong to a political party. Only party I want to be a part of is Mario Party 😎
"this is elementary school yard level pettiness." Yup! that sums up most adults nowadays as well
Adults are immature and forgot to grow up...
Sums up American politics nicely
Even then
Elementary kids know when to drop a subject
@@isaacr9503 trust me, not just American. (saying hi from the Czech Republic)
This topic sums up Twitter arguments as a whole
When in Arlo accidentally makes a Paper Mario metaphor for US political discord in 2020.
Yep.
Eh it’s not really the same at all because it’s significantly higher stakes and where one side are domestic terrorists and racists trying to overthrow the government and shoot everyone they don’t like. So no it’s different, small debates like about paper mario does require civility but political discourse should but honestly more importantly should condemn those who are inciting hatred and violence more.
@@mysticalquilava are you serious?
@@mysticalquilava We found that "person" who Arlo is referring to in this video!
Gaming ≠ Politics
Politics deals with the daily lives of people. It's about human rights and taxes.
Arlo is essentially trying to say "some just want to watch the world burn."
I think he included a "lighting the world on fire" part in the video as well.
DING DING DING!!! Sound like any other real world events that have been going on lately under the guise of equality? Divide and conquer my friends and they are doing a great job!!!
As a sims player I feel you... I really really do😅 watching many fans wanting everything to burn for years.
It's honestly not just the Paper Mario fanbase...it's a major social problem in general. Identity politics is becoming the new norm and "us vs them" is too common a mindset in every facet of life, whether it's who you think should be president or what video game you like. It's honestly so sad that this social unrest even permeates into something as casual as a video game fanbase, lol. I try to be better by being an example. Be the kind of person who can have civil discourse and hope that others learn from you. It's really the only power we have, except maybe voting.
I have the same issue, whenever I want to have a conversation about a topic like BLM with someone they refuse to acknowledge an opinion that combats their own and instead choose to attack me. I've had people attack me saying that I can't have an opinion about a particular issue due to the colour of my skin or my ethnicity. In some conversations I've been called a racist because I wanted to voice my opinion and have a standard conversation even though nothing that I have said is racist in the slightest. I find that a lot of people are being mislead to believe something that has no evidence to support it and then when they proved wrong they just kick and scream and throw insults out like a toddler. It's truly wild and unfathomable how people can act like this.
The very medium we’re using right now is the problem, and will inevitably result in the downfall of civil society.
It’s ironic that the platform allowing people to have access to nearly all knowledge in the world, has ended up causing everyone to fall into their own “bubbles” of like minded people.
It’s starting to bleed out into the real world from the online one with deadly consequences...and it’s due to the always connected thing in your pocket. Or at your desk. Or smart tv. Or watch. Or any number of always-online internet browsing capable devices.
The problem is Paper Mario is very much Us vs Them.
Us who want the old ways vs Them who want the new.
Them who want the old ways vs Us who want the new.
Each is directly at the expense of the other.
If you can only have cake or ice cream what do you do?
This problem definitely predates the internet by a _long shot._ All the internet has done is allowed these conflicts to spread around the entire world at the speed of light (as opposed to at the speed of horse), and for anyone to be able to spread them rather than just those influential enough to actually get the chance to send a message.
As a fan of both the old *and* new games, I have to agree. I've stayed away from any and all public discussion of it because there's always someone who takes it way too seriously. It's tiring and frustrating and just needs to stop.
Same, I understand the first two are great, and I understand why people would think the new ones are bad. But Super Paper Mario I feel never gets talking about in this… hellhole
@@Olivertheoliveprobably because super has the worst gameplay in the entire series…
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare but shouldn’t that make it a prime discussion topic regarding bad paper Mario games?
@@Olivertheolive yes actually it should i wouldn’t have minded supers gameplay if it weren’t for the puzzle aspect of the platforming it ruined it for me but i do agree it should be a general topic for the bad games in the series
I'll keep listening to your Paper Mario chats regardless and I'll respect yours and any other person's opinions. Love the original trilogy, love the modern trilogy, hate the originals, hate the moderns, that's okay. I just like listening to Paper Mario stuff.
From what I can tell from the thumbnail, talking about Paper Mario is like the discussion of Star Wars nowadays.
It would require Mario himself (Luke Skywalker / Marc Hammill) to come out and say the game is rubbish.
Petey’s life *depends* on competitive gaming. What a soldier, save him from perishing.
This is how i feel about the Luigi's Mansion series. I love three and all but I kind of just want a game more like the first one. With the creepy atmosphere, one mansion, one theme, etc.
the reason for the different style is because the first game was developed by nintendo ead, while the next two were handed to next level games. it would be nice to see the old atmosphere return tho
@@justadoggo_ i honestly don’t really care about the design of the characters but even though i grew up with dark moon but played the original game to hold me over until the remake of bowsers inside story released and i honestly love both styles of the games but hardly play luigies mansion 3
Here’s the truth, like it or not:
ALL criticism is subjective, whether they want to admit it or not.
Once you realize this, life will get a lot easier.
Well not all, like if someone says the game doesnt run properly or has a lot of game breaking glitchs then that i feel is a legit critisicsm that you really cant argue with, but when it comes to how the story is, what the mechanics are, etc. then yes all of those points are completely subjective, true your opinion may be a popular one but it doesnt make it 100% right nor someone of a different opinion wrong.
@@joshuabean7805 That is not really criticism, more a statement of fact.
@@YouVSMeTV true, I guess what im saying is that you have objective criticism about a games technical problems saying that something should work better than it does but things like the story, characters, and mechanics its impossible to be objective about because all of what you get out of those is subjective. Does that make more sense? Sorry if im not explaining myself well.
@@joshuabean7805 I got you the first time. I understand the need to point out such things. I just think that aside from that, people always get upset, attack the reviewer and then everything they said is null and void.
I like to think this whole “objective criticism” thing came from one or two guys saying it just to piss people off, but then people started to actually believe it.
The one thing I’m tired hearing from critics (and you even said it in the video) “You like the new games? You must have not played the old ones, or you played the new ones first.” I see it so much, anytime I want to talk about them, I always preface how I started with The Thousand Year Door, it’s one of my favorites, and how I enjoy every game in the series. Being a fan of all of the games can be hard, because people want to keep throwing you into on group or another.
I think the reason he brings that up is because of the responses he says he gets from supporters.
If a critic says "I don't like the mechanic in [new game] and think the mechanic in [old game] was better" and a supporter responds with "Well you're just blinded by nostalgia", that doesn't illustrate that the supporter understands what the critic is talking about and it offers nothing in terms of an argument. Unless you can travel backward through time, there isn't anything you can't say someone is nostalgia-blind about. What I mean is, something has to exist for there to be a sequel of it. So, anything that recieves a sequel lends itself to the "argument" that fans of the original are blinded by nostalgia. That is not to say nostalgia isn't or can't be a factor in someone's attitude towards a game, but without being able to know that definitively, it's a moot point.
Instead, if a supporter were to say "The mechanic in [new game] works well due to [change in game], whereas the old mechanic would not work well here due to [reason]", then I don't think Arlo would be making this video.
As he says, it seems to him like the people saying he's "nostalgia blind" or "hates change" don't understand his criticism or don't recognize why he likes the old games, which could be (though not necessarily) because they haven't played the old game.
Sorry this is as long as it is, I just wanted it to come off more so as the way I understood what Arlo was saying, I'm not trying to argue with what you're saying.
MasterChief0522 I know his reasoning behind it, and I never said he was wrong on certain cases. I’m just saying it’s, personally, one of the things I’m so tired of hearing. I used to just say how I like Sticker Star, or how Color Splash is one of my favorites, and that’s it. Then, a lot people would say “Must be your first one” or “Haven’t played the others.” After so many times, it gets tiring/annoying, causing me to always preface the opposite when bringing it up to deter those comments and replies. Totally agree the whole “nostalgia blind” thing is overblown, but doesn’t stop people from making assumptions, and you know what they say about that...
i emulated the first paper mario game. i am immune to such pettiness now!
I get it. I'm a huge fan of the Metroid series and I enjoyed playing Other M when it came out. However I also fully understand everyone's critiques of the game and that many people consider it terrible. I'm sure if I ever went online and told people that I enjoyed playing it I would be inundated with replies telling me that I should play the better games even though I already have played them.
I also think Arlo has a point when he says that many people who comment on things also tend not to be really acquainted with what they're talking about. You see it a lot these days and unfortunately it ruins it for those of us who can play games and enjoy the not so great as well as the great ones.
People are just so sentimentally attached to n64 and gamecube games like that.
As someone who loves both TTYD and Origami King for their individual merits, this is a heavily relatable video.
@Darling Vexa Art Yeah. Origami King is a step in the right direction. My favorite Paper Mario game is the first one for N64. I also like TTYD and Super Paper Mario.
I liked both too and I find it ridiculous that civil conversations can't be had.
Origami King is terrible, but TTYD is pretty good.
I've only played Paper Mario: The Origami King, and yet, I'm still on the side of the critics. I'm not blinded by nostalgia, I've heard a lot of classic Paper Mario fans talk about the issues with the new games, and them talking about what was great about the old ones. And I'm genuinely interested in getting the old games. It's not like I'm the only person like this, there are probably hundreds of people who only played the new ones but are more interested in the old games.
once I saw an argument about which one is better, TOK or TTYD, and it eventually escalated to death threats. Some people just can't understand OPINIONS man. keep up the good work Arlo, love your vids.
Yup. Link's Awakening and Opinions' comment section is a flamewar.
"You're blinded by nostalgia" is such a cop out argument, how about you criticise what I've actually put forward rather than disregarding my opinion entirely
Depends on how you use it. I think its a good argument once, like you can't enjoy something new if you keep comparing it to its previous entries. But yeah, you can't just keep saying that its a scapegoat.
God, I hate that argument. It is so cowardly.
What if someone is actually blinded by nostalgia?
@@granthamlin8126 Then call them out. But nostalgia or not TTYD is better. And I saw this as someone who only recently played the game.
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Oh look, the exact type of person this video is talking about.
Anime, my boy, rein it in. I wasn't making a case for any game.
Omg, don't even get me started. Criticism's taboo these days to which you can't express any remote negativity or neutrality on one end & you're not allowed to like newer games on the other spectrum in which you're a shill. You could hardly preach about it either because then someone would label you as playing the victim or just being a drama queen and that your stance or supposed problems don't exist, which is flat out disrespectfully ignorant. You could make this basis for about *any* fandom of anything, but in the span of 2-3 games, being a Paper Mario fan's genuinely exhausting & obnoxious no matter what kind of stance you take.
Not really surprised you’re here. Thank you for all the vids on paper Mario. I actually enjoy documentary style vids on these sorts of games so thanks for all the hard work on these vids!
Dam dont really care much about the game but you need a hug?
It’s like the problem with the Pokémon and Sonic fanbases, but way more onesided against older fans
I don’t think you’re in any justifiable position to talk about this. Your twitter is filled to the brim with toxicity, throwing shade at other people, and you even go as far as to insult Americans despite them making up a huge portion of your audience. Please stop acting like you’re any better.
Here's a question. Since this is the internet and we barely know at times who the person we're talking to looks like or what their age is, can we chalk up some of the immaturity towards some of these people who are having these "arguments" as them either being naive, young, or maybe even not very bright?
I think this video can be applied to many arguments I see online. With the internet its very easy to put your opposition into a generalized group and essentially ignoring their arguments instead of having a conversation. Your Splatoon example was amazing and would happen without a doubt. I think this is more of a problem with how the internet works, and how easy it is to stay rooted in your own opinion as long as you have others that share it. On the flip side it's extremely hard to openly change your opinion without being scrutinized by all the people you once talked to on your old side.
Thank you, I was going to post a comment but you said everything I needed to say. It sounds cliche yet people haven't fully absorbed just how much power a tool has over us, for example how the internet enables endless arguments. Twitter in particular is geared towards spitting out your opinions instead of going into discussions.
this is actually just a REALLY good video about fandom wars in general. It's about papermario wars specifically but I remember this exact shit in 2016 and 2017 that made me find a way out of ever being in these wars again. It is such a good breakdown
So what you’re saying is that both extreme sides of the argument boils down to
“Nope, you are nitpicking and biased, I win, bye bye”
The new games make you really *feel* like paper.
I love Dunkey so much
what is this tu pac
You know who's a REAL fan? Air Man from Megaman 2.
You classic Mega Man fans are all the same /s
@@DekuOfPower Is that bad?
Did you miss the joke
@@DekuOfPower the joke *flies over the head*
You kidding me? He blows!
As a Sonic fan, this situation seems disturbingly familiar....
"We need more Adventure!"
"We need more Boost!"
"We need more Mania!"
...Yeah, this topic is "giving me deja vu all over again".
Sonic Mania is like Bug Fables except it's made by the same company.
@@genoobscureseverything7415 Not really. It's published by Sega, and Sonic Team (or at least Takashi Iizuka) played a supervisory role, but the actual development was done by people who had been contracted from the Sonic fanhacking community. That's why a lot of news outlets dubbed it "an official fangame".
And Mania itself threw a wrench into things because now a lot of people who grew up with the Adventures think they're ENTITLED TO a new Adventure game. "The classic fanboys got their precious Sonic Mania and now it's our fucking turn!!!" And they think it's perfectly OK to take out their frustrations on us classic fans, and think that public opinion only turned against the Adventure games because LPers told them the games suck, rather than repeated playthroughs making the games' flaws wear on people more. Not generalizing, it's not all Adventure fans, but they exist.
Yeah. We have been through it all.
Honestly though, Adventure is the best and SEGA should stop pandering to the Classic fans
@@genoobscureseverything7415 I'll say Freedom Planet is more like Bug Fables. Because Both use completely different IPs, but are inspired by Mario and Sonic to appeal those audiences. Bug Fables appeal to the people who want more classic Paper Mario, while Freedom Planet appeals to the people who wants more 2D classic Sonic, and both use a different spin on these familiar formulas. Sonic Mania still uses a Sonic IP.
Everyone: at war over the games
Me who likes all the games: :I
I can respect that. Games are fun.