@@AurumAlex64 there are so many highly underrated, amazing games that don't get talked about as much as it should. It's a shame that there are people who would absolutely love the underrated game but because it's underrated they can go their whole lives not knowing about it.
I think you make a good point about it being a "Layton game starring Phoenix Wright." In fact, now I'm convinced that Layton games shouldn't have Layton as the main character at all. It's much more satisfying to let the player unravel the mystery behind the strange town du jour -- than it is to have Layton explain everything at the last minute with some independent research the audience never saw.
I wonder if this game will forever be stuck on the 3DS or eventually it will be rereleased. Every Ace Attorney game is now available for modern platforms and the first three Professor Layton games are available on Google Play/App Store. I think Level-5 needs to follow Capcom's example and port the Professor Layton games to Switch, specially before New World of Steam release. I would love to play Last Specter and the others on a TV and maybe add this crossover game as well, it might sold decently more.
Yup, I would definitely like that too. Although Level-5 seems to be having some trouble getting their games actually released right now, so hopefully that changes soon
Unfortunately, every Layton game would need serious retooling to convey the same information on one screen instead of two. Even the mobile ports of the OG trilogy cheat a little by using the vertical screen to mimic the DS aspect ratio.
@@verskartonCapcom probably can't since Level 5 holds most of the legal rights to the collab game. Unless Level 5 gives them a go ahead signal, they can't do shit. It's also one of the reason Capcom still doesn't want to translate the Ace Attorney remasters in languages such as Italian or Spanish: the original DS games had translations... that were curated by Nintendo teams, not Capcom ones, and so they legally own the rights to those translations, not Capcom. If Capcom wanted to release Italian/Spanish translations, they'd have to do them again, which is a bummer
I think the line about phoenix being in labyrinthia on accident is kinda fitting. I feel like a major part of his character is sticking his nose in situations when no one asked him to and solving them.
I think it’s *extremely* telling that capcom would take a lot of the spins on the AA formula in this game (multiple witnesses at the same time, pitting people’s opinions against each other to change consensus, a setting where modern forensic technology isn’t recognized) and use them in the Great Ace Attorney duology. They’re amazing mechanics that up the ante without detracting from the traditional mindset of the gameplay a la Apollo’s bracelet (as you said). I have no idea what they’ll do to make AA7 feel new and refreshing, but whatever they do I hope they keep multi-witness statements, because TGAA1&2 utilized them excellently in a more grounded setting after this game proved they could work. Thanks for covering this, amazing analysis. Gonna go replay it again :P edit: I posted this literally 15 seconds before you addressed it in the video whooops lol. While I do agree that PLvPW does do these mechanics well, sometimes even better than GAA, I do think it’s like comparing apples and oranges. There’s value to the slower, more grounded stories of the mainline and GAA ace attorney games, and there’s value to the more fast paced and exhilarating stories of the Layton games. While I would agree that PLvPW was already “sprinting” as you said with these mechanics, TGAA wanted to use them in a differently paced story, which I think works great for what it’s going for.
Oh, actually I totally agree with your last point. The reason I didn't want to say PLvPA walked so GAA could run is exactly _because_ I think both games approach the same mechanics from different angles. So it's less that I think GAA's mechanics are worse or less interesting than PLvPA, and more that I think PLvPA's specific combination of magic and multiple witnesses is too interesting to be overlooked by being placed solely in GAA's shadow.
@@AurumAlex64 Oh, I love that! Thanks for adding that, I absolutely agree. Sidenote: you already got a fan with your paper mario videos, but seeing you cover Layton (and maybe more AA in the future) has made you a mainstay in my rewatch/listen circulation. Can’t wait to see what you make next.
In terms of plot structure, I don't think it's really fair to stack "one" Professor Layton game against "one" Ace Attorney game. You're right that an Ace Attorney game is just a series of cases that barely connect to each other, which is why I abandon the premise and instead compare Professor Layton mysteries to Ace Attorney "episodes." In that sense, the similarities in scale become more clear. Layton's tension comes from "You and/or your friends are trapped here until you find the truth," while Wright's tension comes from "You have to find the truth in two or three days or else an innocent person will be charged with murder." Those are the two story formats that PLvAA tries to weld together.
I think you're right about that. I was mostly trying to point out that I think the courtroom setting of Ace Attorney is enhanced by being placed in a more cohesive, interconnected Layton world. So I'm glad that the game choose to go with the format of a Layton story, because I think Labyrinthia would be way less compelling if we explored it via the more discrete case structure of an Ace Attorney game. I like that the crimes in this game happen "naturally" over the course of an unfolding story.
Reminder that this is the only Ace Attorney game still not on Switch. If they make it happen, that’ll also pave the way for the Layton series on Switch.
New World of Steam, yes. But what is meant here is for the old Layton games from the DS and 3DS to be remastered for the Switch. So far the only "Layton" game on Switch is Katrina, the arguably worst one of the series. @@yamisean3298
I recently tried to make my partner experience this game, as they were a newcomer to Phoenix Wright and I was a veteran of both series; but the 3DS's tiny screen just doesn't work when shared between the giant hands of two adults. This game is in desperate need of a remaster, now that the rest of the PW series is immortalized onto Steam.
Hopefully with Level-5 gearing up to make a lot of games again (and then delaying all of them for some reason), they and Capcom can work to bring this outside of the 3DS.
The Crossover have some faults - a lot of faults, people might say - but I will always appreciate it since Shu's time working on this game directly inspired (or at least helped solidify) Great Ace Attorney, and that's the best the series been in a while.
For an example of "Ace Attorney logic in a fantastical setting" check out "Tyrion Cuthbert: Attorney of the Arcane", a game that is very much trying to be an Ace Attorney game but with the ability to present magic spells that seem pretty similar to PLvPW (without the Layton twist). Also a banger soundtrack.
As someone who loves both Ace attorney and Professor Layton, this is my 4th favorite Ace Attorney game and my 2nd favorite Layton game, only losing to Ace Attorney Investigations 2: Prosecutor’s Gambit, The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve, Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies, and Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask. Absolutely phenomenal game. Character writing and mystery writing was perfect (thank you Shu Takumi), the music was exceptional, and due to Shu Takumi’s help, the twist… actually withstands pressure against Logic, unlike most Layton twists with blatant contradictions (such as us seeing children in folsense, the Sky being so bright in Lost Future, everything that has to do with the Spectre’s Apperance, and a heavy lack of clues to deduce who the people of Saint Myster are).
The logic that runs Labyrinthia is just so cool. Though to be honest, I've never really minded how nonsensical Layton stories can be. Like, does it at all make sense that they somehow managed to build an *entire* replica amusement park right behind the original in Monte D'or, and somehow nobody noticed (even though there's literally a roller coaster in the park)? No, it makes no sense whatsoever, but, like, there's so many other things in Miracle Mask that are interesting to talk about instead, so it's hard to care all too much. I've never even seen anyone bring up this as a point against MM in the first place, and that's because I think most people don't really mind either.
@@AurumAlex64 I care when the major plot twists make sense. Literally everything about the magic in this game makes sense as every spell can be explained (except Godoor). Now, the invisible black cloth makes sense, but isn’t as airtight given that if you were walking around the bell tower, you wouldn’t be able to see someone on the other side. But those are the only exceptions. Now for miracle mask, the major twists makes sense. The identity of the Masked Gentleman makes sense, the twist of where the mask of order is makes sense, with the only one not making as much sense is Descolè’s involvement, but I’ll give that a pass because, at the end of the day, his motive for going to these lengths does make sense.
I agree, but I think would go further and say that, if you have coherence of character, coherence of plot becomes relatively unimportant. The logistics of Future London in Unwound Future are so impossible it's hard to know where to begin. Not to mention at the end, it features a genuine instance of time travel. And yet, despite these impossibilities, UF is without a doubt the most popular game in the series. And that's because the setting meshes with the characters in really interesting ways. Future London is a city of corruption and greed, where gangsters set the law of the land. Except, Clive wants to make the argument that this horrible version of London isn't in the future, it's representative of the very real reality of London in the present. So the twist of Future London being fake makes perfect sense, despite not making any sense at all, because it matches the themes and psychology of Clive as a character. I would say this essentially applies to all of the Layton games, which is why I never end up feeling cheated when the major plot twists don't hold up under strict scrutiny.
@@gavout1511 The miracle mask is not a very good game and its story is pretty bad. Why would Randall blindly trust everything a letter was saying rather than talk to his friends? How would Descole know Randall would do exactly everything that letter said? How the heck did Angela disguised herself as Mordy? And seriously, can you really call the identity of the Masked Gentleman a twist? It's obvious from almost the start of the game. And what really bothers me is that Layton barely has any reaction to it. The game really seems to forget Randall was his best friend. You have no moment where Layton seems to show emotions to Randall being the "Big Bad". Even though Randall is an important part of his life. He's part of the reason he's who he is today and his death is presented as a tragedy to him. You have no moments of Layton acting like a friend to him either after the climax because the game somehow thought it was a good idea to make Layton leave the town directly after it. Like, what?! It really dimishes the impact of having seeing those two as friends in the flashbacks because their friendship was inessential in the end. I already thought those flashbacks were superficial (because we already knew what happenned but the story was dragging on) but at the end of the game they were just outright unnecessary.
@@AurumAlex64 I disagree. If the coherence of your plot is forced to go a certain way to establish a coherence of character, then, said coherence of character will also be forced. Which is very bad writting. And it would help the game actually supported Clive's point of view and showed actual corruption in London instead of just putting it all on Bill Hawks. What bothers me in all Layton games is that they go all out right from start with a big mystery but in the end gives you very wacky explanations. And, sometimes, it just feels like Layton read the script of the game.
While I really do not like the Layton twist at the end of this game, I absolutely adore it otherwise and agree with the majority of your points! It's great seeing such an in depth analysis and appreciation for such an underrated gem. Oh and you're 300% right about how incredible The Golden Court is
As much as I love this game imagine if Layton and Luke were the ones to have their memories wiped and Layton became the inquisitor of the game. That would have been kinda fun and a great way to go with the whole Wright vs Layton theme. Plus the angst potential of Luke falling into the fire and Layton crying without knowing why is worth its weight in GOLD! 👀 Fanfic potential aside I love this game so much! Definitely in my top three Layton games for sure! 😁
THANK YOU for making this video. You really captured a lot of my thoughts- that while Layton is the foundation for this game and story, that all the more works in the Ace Attorney side's favor. Of course Phoenix & Maya would get accidentally wrapped up in something crazy and overwhelming- that's just what they do! Here's hoping the game gets a port or remaster!
Edit: Got a little too occupied writing my little piece that i forgot the basic courtesy of writing my appreciation for this video. Thank you. Your analyses really puts into perspective the things i like and in turn makes me gush more about what VS does right. Really enjoyed this vid! Since people are already seeing similarities in mechanics of The Great Ace Attorney and VS, i would like to point out another in terms of two story trope that TGAA definitely utilizes with VS clearly as the inspiration. Non-death trials being a very unexpected intricate anchor for weighty plot developments and important casts removal that ACTUALLY happens and affects the world and writing. VS having the first trope be the entire focal point of the twist and the second trope being non-permanent, while inversely TGAA has only one case that spans the duology for the first trope and a layered removal cast for the first and a cast removal that shakes the entire world and even players for the second. Seriously makes me sing praise for both games because it made me look back to the Ace Attorney franchise i love and made me think "Man, it's actually ridiculous how the protagonist lawyers are just like in a scenic boat ride that goes on a predetermined path and nothing wild shall ever happen!". The first trope making me realize how powerful subtle foreshadowing is and the second trope refreshening my enjoyment towards the series cause dark sudden and irreversible turns in the flow of the boat ride goes a long way to shake up the experience.
You've done a superb job highlighting all of this game's strengths. It's always irked me when people say that VS is a poor representation of Ace Attorney. I'll direct them to this video from now on.
Possibly the most based take of all time. The crossover is CRIMINALLY underappreciated, and as someone who was a fan of both series before playing, it blew me away with what it was able to accomplish. Glad to see someone finally talk about it!
I finally finished the video and it's absolutely wonderful. Not only is it great to just see someone talk about Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright in general, but you also brought up many points that just reminded me of why i really love this game to begin with. PLvsPW was actually my very first Layton game as someone who was primarily an Ace Attorney fan and was curious to what Professor Layton was actually about. So while PLvsPW isn't my ultimate favourite game in either franchise, i still love it a lot and it will always hold a special place in my heart. It's a great game on its own and a great mix of PL and AA, as well as a great introduction to both series
Yup, I was in the same boat when I played this game. I'd been a huge Ace Attorney fan when this came out, but never played Layton before. Now I'm an even huger Layton fan.
It was kind of my first Layton too. I tried Curious Village before, didn't get far and it didn't hook me immediately. VS was just more interesting from the get go and I feel introduces Layton & Luke better than CV, since you get a better feeling of how much the professor means to the boy and Luke's ability to speak to animals is introduced more naturally imo
You really hit the nail on the head and expertly touched upon every single one of this game's merits. I've been thinking about this game ever since its announcement, and in hindsight I am dumbfounded by its lukewarm reception. This game now holds a special place in my heart and it was upsetting not being able to convey that passion to the Layton and Ace Attorney fan bases that seemed more than willing to write the game off as nothing more than a cute but flawed distraction. Seeing someone that gets what makes this game so special and convey it so incredibly well is so validating to see. Thanks for this dissertation on the game. If you don't mind, I'd like to get into why this game is so special to me, below.
I was addicted to the Nintendo DS as a kid. It was a wonderful system that introduced me to odd games and unlikely genres. My love for the Brain Age/Brain Training games led me to discover the Layton series. At the time, the Layton series was gaining popularity in the EU, and it was one of the few games of its kind that was localized to my native language, with expert localizations into Dutch starting with the second Layton game. I adored the world, the characters, the animated sequences, and music of the Layton games so much. It captured my vivid imagination and I would often fantasize about these games when I wasn't playing them. But a major stumbling block for me as a young kid was always the game's puzzles. Especially in the first (English-only) Layton game, which I had a hard time of understanding due to my lack of English comprehension at the time. I would often reach out to my older siblings and my father for them to help with the puzzles or to translate something I didn't understand. To this day, some of my fondest gaming memories is solving Layton puzzles with my family. They always loved helping me out. My dad was fond of Sudoku and crossword puzzles himself, and I remember his excitement in being able to relate to my passion for gaming (something he was otherwise indifferent toward) through the puzzle-focused adventures of Layton. It was in the midst of my obsession with the Layton series that I became aware of the announcement of the Layton VS Wright crossover. As a young kid that was only just allowed access to the internet, I would scour Japanese gaming websites, not understanding a single thing whatsoever, just to get more details on this seemingly elusive Layton crossover game that was just announced or tracking down the newest leaked magazine details on Pokemon Black and White. At that time, I didn't have much familiarity with the Ace Attorney series. A few years before all this, I got my hands on a Nintendo DS flashcard with on it the at-that-time recently released Apollo Justice Ace Attorney. My English comprehension was still poor back then, so after giving the game a few tries I dropped the game for years, not giving it a second thought. Fast forward to me discovering the existence of the crossover game online. As I described above I became obsessed with the Layton series in the interim and my English improved drastically in that timeframe. Spurred on by the announcement of the Layton VS Wright crossover, I was excited to give that weird courtroom game from back then another shot. This decision was quite literally life-changing in hindsight. In a single summer, I played through all Ace Attorney games available at that time. Ace Attorney became my single biggest obsession, easily overshadowing my childhood love for Pokemon and Layton, and to this day it's my favorite series in media. I'll spare you the details, but Ace Attorney has been one of the few constants in my life for 14-odd years now. I couldn't play this crossover game until a few years after it had come out, unfortunately. I was stuck with an old DS and a flashcard with pirated games as my only means of gaming, as my family couldn't afford buying me new games, let alone a 3DS. I would substitute that lack of being able to play newer games myself with watching TH-cam Let's Plays and Twitch streams as my only alternative. I would listen to the incredible soundtrack of the crossover all the time, uploaded to TH-cam by fans when the Japanese version released, while eagerly awaiting the international release of the crossover which would still be a few years away. I turned watching a playthrough of this game into a whole event. It was in many ways a celebration of my love for two series I was so passionate about. But the experience was bittersweet, spoiled in a way, as I couldn't play my most anticipated game for myself. In the end, I had a good time, but that second-hand experience of the game ultimately fell somewhat short. Whether it was due to the envy of not being able to play the game for myself, or my extensive 4 year long hype build-up between announcement and international release giving me false expectations, or my initial disappointment with the fact that this was a wholly original story with few legacy characters from the Layton and Ace Attorney series returning; my experience with the game came and went and I resorted to joining the masses in writing the game off as nothing more than a decently fun curiosity. Fast forward once again to many years later. I had since caught up with the rest of the Layton series and most of the Ace Attorney series, I started studying Japanese so that I could one day play Dai Gyakuten Saiban in its entirety for myself, and most importantly of all I got my hands on a 3DS. All of a sudden, an official localization of The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles was announced. This new release reinvigorated my love for Ace Attorney, as the later mainline releases of AA5 and AA6 didn't capture my imagination in the long-term beyond my first playthroughs of them. The Great Ace Attorney was an absolute joy, as it was constantly reminding me of what I loved so much about the series in the first place. Shu Takumi's games hold a very special place in my heart, with Ghost Trick being my favorite game of all time. Being finally able to play The Great Ace Attorney meant a lot, but as I was playing it I was constantly reminded of the crossover game, too. Great Ace obviously owes a lot to the crossover. As my playthrough of Great Ace came to a close, I was adamant to try the crossover out once again, this time with a new mindset and a chance to experience all it had to offer first-hand.
Over the course of about a month I made my way through the crossover, and I can't recall the last time playing a game had felt so magical. It was like I could finally appreciate this game for what it was. I was grinning constantly from ear to ear while playing the game, going on the insane ride that it is. The incredible amount of love and passion the developers had for these characters, for these series, but also for this new installment, was apparent during every second of my playthrough. I didn't just appreciate all the ways the crossover paid homage to its respective original series, but I had completely newfound appreciation for every single risk this crossover took to do something new and original. The crossover could have very easily been a by-the-numbers fan-service affair, but the developers capitalized on this once in a lifetime opportunity to double down on an insane setting with a very daring story: a massive risk that was absolutely worth taking in my book. I have insane amounts of respect for the game. You can tell that the developers had a lot of difficulty AND a lot of fun in squeezing as much potential out of this one fantastical chance meeting between these two universes. Setting the game around the concept of Witch Trials is frankly a genius marriage of the worlds of Layton and Ace Attorney. I genuinely can't think of a single better setting that merges Layton's fantastical miraculous mysteries with Ace Attorney's courtroom environment. Frankly, this game shouldn't have been about anything else. It seems so obvious in hindsight. Yet the developers didn't stop there. They did the epic proportions of a story about magic and witches more than justice. Main characters fall victim; we get A Taste of Despair as the surviving characters get to linger in grief; we get to see incredible set-pieces and insane twists, animated gorgeously and brought to life in wonderful 3D with impressive voice performances; we get to explore an enchanting town with mesmerizing civilians that we get to meet inside and outside the courtroom, accompanied by one of the best soundtracks in gaming. The developers didn't rest on their laurels whatsoever. This game is longer than the original releases of the first Ace Attorney game and first Layton game combined. A big budget and 2 full development teams were mobilized to make this game happen. They went all out.
This is most apparent in the Ace Attorney side of the game. This is the first time we get to see these Ace Attorney characters in 3D, the first time they are voiced throughout larger stretches in the game and in 2D animated sequences. And on top of that we get to see wonderful twist on the Ace Attorney formula. The Grand Grimoire and the mob cross-examinations are wonderful twists on the Ace Attorney formula, and the chaotic nature of the witch trial setting is maybe the most perfect execution of Ace Attorney's concept the entire series has seen thus far. The witch trials perfectly contextualize the chaos, legal incompetence, the drama, the twists and turns, the biases, and the insanity that often gets criticized as unrealistic in the contemporary setting of the mainline Ace Attorney games. The Ace Attorney team did a wonderful job of amplifying what makes Ace Attorney work so well in this newer setting. In my opinion, the witch trial is the embodiment of the unique charm and insanity of Ace Attorney finally finding a place, where the unrealism and high stakes finally make complete sense. The incredibly oppressing nature of the witch trials, the defense having the odds stacked against them, the unfairness of this sham of a legal system, the incompetence of the parties involved; all aspects that have never been put to better use until this crossover. And in that difficult and unfair environment, the pursuit of justice and the truth becomes all the sweeter. The turnabouts are more satisfying, the twists are more drastic, the victory is more dramatic. Later Ace Attorney games have attempted to raise the stakes like this too, but no Ace Attorney game can match the bombast and pomp of this crossover, without undermining what makes Ace Attorney work. In that regard, I adore this crossover moreso as a deconstruction (and subsequent reconstruction) of Ace Attorney. The fact that this game manages to tell one continuous mystery from one episode to the next, rather than the standard anthologically isolated episodes of Ace Attorney, shows how willing the Ace Attorney team was to re-examine and develop what Ace Attorney can be (which would later pay off in the two-game-mystery that is Great Ace). The Layton side of the crossover does an admirable job off pulling its weight, especially in the characterization of Layton and Luke as well as the portrayal of Labyrinthia, but mechanically the Layton side falls a bit short. There is only one single interesting twist on the Layton formula, namely the Turnabout Puzzle in the underground ruins. Again, another instance of the developers having fun with the opportunities of this crossover (after all, the Japanese marketing tagline for this game was "Puzzle x Contradiction" and the Turnabout Puzzle is the literal embodiment of that phrase). But beyond that, a lot of Layton series staples don't return in fresh new ways. There aren't fun side activities, like puzzles with a pet parrot/bunny/hamster/toy robot or minigames like the tea brewing in Layton 2, but perhaps that is what gives this game its unique flavor. This game feels more focused than the average Layton game, with less distractions or detours pulling away attention from the main story. The small sections where we do get shake ups, like the different investigation pairings of the main cast, all feel very well contextualized. In the end, my major hang-up with the Layton side of the game is the lack of difficulty in the puzzles. This game could have really capitalized on the portrayal of the oppressive tone of the witch trials and the more focused story by embedding more difficult puzzles into the world in more meaningful ways. My favorite puzzles in this crossover game are the ones that seem to directly reflect the story of the game, in either a literal or metaphorical way. I don't think it’s a coincidence that Puzzle 1 in this crossover is about guiding a light witch and a dark witch to their respective goals, obviously foreshadowing Espella and Darklaw's involvement in the story. Or Puzzle 9 being about marionettes that are being manipulated and pulled by their strings, just as the game is setting up the lore of the Storyteller. Or Puzzle 11 foreshadowing the setting and main twist of The Golden Court. The Layton team could really have leaned into this aspect more to make the puzzles in this game stand out. More fun twist like the Turnabout Puzzle, or perhaps something new akin to Layton 3's Puzzle Battle, or Layton 5's environments with 3D depth, or Layton 5's dungeon crawling chapter, could have gone a long way too. What I do really appreciate about the puzzles in this game is how many of them directly involve the main cast and how lovingly rendered their escapades are. Another highlight on the Layton side of things is of course how Layton becomes The Last Inquisitor. He often occupies the position at the end of the game of someone who has figured out the whole mystery off-screen and who has to reveal the twist to the cast one step at a time, and the role of the inquisitor is a great position to do that from. The fact that Layton is playable during short sections while he is an inquisitor is the cherry on top. It feels like the game is finally embracing that Layton VS Wright concept. They wrote themselves into a corner ever since they teased this game having "VS" in the title, and the angle they found for it is quite nice.
You can tell they gave it their all. We know now that development of this game was quite troubled at times, with the developers jokingly referring to this game as being not just "Layton VS Wright", but "Level-5 VS Capcom". Yet the developers persevered, making something that stands shoulder to shoulder with the games that came before, if not occasionally eclipsing the individual series. I really want to thank you once again for making this video and allowing me to go on this trip down memory lane. You did a wonderful job of singing the games praises, highlighting its unique qualities, and dispelling the shadow that had been cast over this game. If this game clicks with you, it clicks unlike anything, and it's wonderful seeing this be true for other people too. One point you raised in this video is particularly inspiring. You point out that this is a game about storytelling, a game about magical encounters, a game about believing in the fantasy. This theme becomes apparent in the game's magical Labyrinthian setting, as well as one layer above that in the game's more grounded and rational Layton/Ace Attorney settings, as well as yet another layer above that in the real world existence of this game as an unlikely work of art crossing over two fictional worlds on the 3DS. I will now forever remember this game by that meta theme, the theme of wanting to embrace the fantasy. This game is emblematic of a very magical journey I've been on with Layton and Ace Attorney for more than half my life now. I will always cherish that.
Wow, thank you for sharing that sweet story about you and your friends playing this game! I remember playing this game as a kid after falling in love with the Professor Layton series--it really was such an emotional journey. I really got so attached to Maya and Phoenix despite only vaguely knowing about Ace Attorney. And boy did the Professor's death scene hit me SO HARD as a kid. I didn't think about the logistics of it being improbable to kill a main character off, I CRIED for him being gone. I felt for Luke who essentially lost his father figure, for Phoenix who had to step in as a big brother figure after he lost his dear friend Maya and was grieving himself, and even for Espella who had been pushed aside by everyone but still showed her compassion to anyone in need. The emotions of this journey hit so hard in this game because all of the characters felt so real. They suffered like we do, but they were also able to come together in the darkest times to care for each other. One of the best games I have ever played, thank you for making this!!
This is the best analysis of the game I have heard yet! As a massive fan of both series, Vs. Is a dream come true and probably my favorite game of all time
Thank you for this video. I really feel like this game is underrated. Sure compared to every other Phoenix game, it's the only one that's stuck on 3ds. But even then, I often see mixed reactions. When I personally think it's a awesome game from both Layton and Ace Attorney side. Also even though the video is 1 hour long, I feel like you didn't talked enough about the music. That's one of my favourite things about the game. Personally I would put it in top 3 Ace Attorney osts and the best ost from Layton games. Especially because it has my favourite puzzle theme from Layton games. It's just perfect. And it's amazing how the composer made the Pursuit theme feel epic, while ominous (because it's great you're winning the argument, but in the end you're basically ending life of another and often not even evil person)
Absolutely, the music in the game is legendary. I had it playing in the background of the video the whole time, so hopefully it was allowed to speak for itself, more or less.
I've been replaying this game in the last few days (the timing!), and thinking a lot about the "Professor Layton game featuring Phoenix Wright" idea. I wholeheartedly agree that the difference in timeline and scope that the two franchises typically follow made it inevitable that whichever scope this game had would feel like the "real" focus, but as I've been going through that I think the actual gameplay feels very much like both games throughout. I think part of the problem is that the trial sections can be briefly summarized through their culprit, victim, and actual sequence of events, whereas summarizing the grander story's mystery (which is much more Laytonesque) takes longer to explain thoroughly. The conciseness of the AA components, which is very true to AA primary games, makes it feel in retrospect like it was less of the game, whereas when actually playing it it feels much more evenly balanced. I'm still early in the video, but I'm so glad I've found it!
I do think that the characterization of Phoenix suffered slightly by his being treated more similarly to Layton. The Professor is generally a somewhat stoic guy who keeps his thoughts close to his chest, in a way that's necessary for his main games but makes him look more like a Sherlockian badass when next to Phoenix, who almost never knows anything until the moment he proves it in court. To offset this the game removes a lot of the internal Phoenix dialogue to make him seem more certain and confident, on par with the professor, but to not be in Phoenix's unsure head doesn't feel right to an AA fan. I can see the game trying to offset by that by letting the Professor impress Phoenix with his deductions, but then Phoenix just becomes another member of the crowd who looks to Layton for all the answers and that doesn't feel satisfying for a main character, either.
28:03 can I just say, Luke is 99% right here, but about an hour later there's a beautiful cutscene of Layton brandishing a stick exactly like that after using it as a defensive weapon 😅
You’ve convinced me to replay this game. I remember finding this game at a garage sale and I feel this is absolutely was the game with the best mechanics.
As someone who only got partly through the first Ace Attorney and never touched a Layton game, I can testify that this game was a wonderful experience when I played it.
Barnham really should have been present during the final boss fight instead just making a cameo in the epiloge cutscene. I what I think should have been to fix this is to have it so when Layton and Luke are about halfway there when it comes to scaling The Storyteller's tower, they find Barnham locked in a cell and free him. The 3 of them then go further up the tower to confront and capture The Storyteller and afterwards Layton and Barnham take over Darklaw's role and become the inqisiters Phoenix faces off against.
I've played every Layton and Ace Attorney game, and I love the crossover so much. I have such good memories playing it with a friend late into the night, voicing all the characters. It's fun seeing so many people here still enjoying it, and I hope we get a remaster one day so people can access the game easier. I have thought about this game possibly an unhealthy amount with how much art I have drawn and stories I have written for it. 😅 Thank you for making this video!
I also wanted to make a 10 year anniversary appreciation of this game, but couldn't quite find the words. Glad I wasn't the only one with that idea. It truly is the most impactful ace attorney game. (Now, if only we could get it on switch and have the whole series).
This year I decided to buy all the sixth main Layton games to play them. I just received today the original trilogy which is fun timing. The only game I owned all thesw years was this, the crossover and that is why I'm so attached to this game and maybe it is my favorite of Layton's saga, even though the story can be nonsensical some times. But still the characters are fun and interesting and that's what makes this game special. Especially the second part of the golen court. Everything with the letter is one of my favorite fiction stories ever. In such a small amount of time it is able to pack intense emotions. I love it.
First of all, your video was great. I watched it in one go. PLvsAA was the odd Layton game at first. I had just finished the prequels at the time and knew nothing about Ace Attorney. My first playthrough was mixed; I didn't know what to think of it. Maybe I was too young. But after some time, I replayed all the Layton games, shed a tear for The Unwound Future, and then came PLvsAA, and it was a revelation. I wanted more. I came to love Ace Attorney as much as Professor Layton. It made me begin the Ace Attorney series, which is great. Everything about this crossover touches on great characteristics of both universes, and the music, for me, is one of the key features that makes me want to replay PLvsAA. It has come to be one of my favorite games of all time, even if people would say otherwise. I'd love more of this, but knowing the development hell it went through, I doubt it will be done anytime soon. Also, I just wish that the animation of PL was made by that studio. It's too good. But it's true that this game is really underrated. No one talks about it, yet many people loved it.
People would say Vs is a good introductory game for Ace Attorney fans into the Layton franchise, or vise versa, but nah, its an introductory game for both series to newbies such as your friends, and that's what made it so good.
I haven't played any Layton or Ace Attorney games (yet!) but I really enjoyed this video! I adore essays that let themselves integrate or end with personal anecdotes - as you discussed, stories can have such a profound impact on us, and I feel that having our analyses speak to that impact is kind of crucial to bridging that often-dangerous gap between 'narrative' and 'reality'. Suffice to say your little coda was really sweet and truly helped ground the whole essay for me. You've also given me a pretty good idea of where to start with both series now! Thanks for putting this out there :) (also, thanks for having great subtitles! They are highly appreciated)
I HAVE TO SHOW SOME SUPPORT- this was one of the most comprehensive, well-thought out and articulated video essay yet!! such an amazing breakdown of the much underrated crossover game in history imo!! thank you sm for making my night! ^w^
yayy I really enjoyed seeing this come up in my feed and watching :) I feel like one of the criticisms I heard and agreed with elsewhere about this game - maybe not even that much of a criticism - was wishing for interactions involving other AA-originating characters from past games meeting with Layton characters. the bonus fourth-wall breaking scenes of the game do that in a great way despite that though. the section about the possibility of an AA game with different rules and logic I feel was even more realized in this fanmade playable ace attorney case Curiosity of a Turnabout that uses a different magic-in-AA world in very creative ways where everyone only has one power (and can even not tell the whole truth about the exact specifications of the power they have) which I highly recommend this may just be a me thing, but sometimes I wondered how the shades could have managed to stage the scenes with some of those... I barely remember Familia but that seemed more impractical than the other spells to cast. and if I casted godoor I would totally try to feel around and poke and prod the space created (since it can't be actually portals but a literal hole) :p there were some aspects that were really cool to recall that I apparently forgot by watching this too, like what 'alchemy' was actually meaning, and the storyteller's lower-effort stories later on lol
My imagination is that Famalia was literally just the Shades popping in themselves to act on the witches behalf -- their purple cloaks certainly look the part. As for Godoor, you could just stick some spooky-looking LEDs into the hole and BAM -- you'd have a convincing magic portal (after all, I doubt Labyrinthians will know what LEDs are). Then you just ring the bell after 5 minutes and patch up the hole while everyone's unconscious.
@@AurumAlex64 I remember feeling the 'weightless' part of Familia would be hard to use with an actual human, but yeah. and now that I think about it I guess a normal person would not have a drill or anything to be able to experiment with the inside of the hole very much anyway lol. (though imagine a witch finding a way to take off the LED's for their own decoration elsewhere, very cursed)
I love your essays because they never feel farfetched or pedantic, despite all the complex themes you talk about in them. I hope your channel grows a lot after NWOS gets released!
Hope you don't mind that I frequently lost track of what you were saying and had to rewind because I got caught up listening to the music lol. Excellent video!
A simply superb discussion of this fantastic crossover, which I feel many see as great, but don't give it it's proper due! I find your ability to get at what makes the core aspects of both series very interesting, and insightful, both to your philosophy of appreciate for these games and how all the pieces worked perfectly in the blend of pallets this title has! Keep up the great work, and have a lovely day :D
I thought your personal story would be well... Your personal playthrough. I think it's very fitting that your story you shared was a let's play with friends on the bus, a playthrough that happened by chance.
Great video, I never played the game myself but did watch a 100% playthrough as if "playing" along. As a huge fan of the Layton series (as you might tell) and knowing what the AA series is about, it was a great watch with a compelling Layton grand mystery chopped up into smaller AA courtroom cases. Learning more about Phoenix and Maya's characters through their interaction with Layton and Luke was great. The most memorable thing for me was the soundtrack, which both games are well known for, especially the credits theme being an epic medley of songs from both games. Great video about this underrated game.
I just want to point out to the French version, because they made the bold choice of giving Phoenix Wright a very distinct voice for this crossover. I know mainly complaoned about it, and while the French VA can be criticized (some line deliveries are a little too flat at times), I actually really like this choice. It gives Nick some real personality. (Also, having non English VA is rare enough to be celebrated)
This video was a wonderful experience, one I wouldn't be surprised to come from a channel with hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Keep up the good work!
While I don't know whether it's the best for any franchise, it's by far the most underrated one. Everyone with a 3DS should play it. The English Turnabout being a Top 10 Ace Attorney Case still is a bold claim though lol. But yeah, the Golden Turnabout most definitely is. I really like your analysis videos of Layton. The way you manage to paint a clearer picture of the story in the games is very impressive.
When you began adressing the labelling problem, which is correct between Layton game or AA game, I was skeptical at first. "why do this matter? lol" but as I listen, your points hit me directly. how the truth reveal is progressing from Wright's POV, the fantasy-like setting more leaning to Layton than the realistic AA, is the true protag Wright or Layton, the story flow... they all in fact, do bothered me at one point when I was playing Vs! The conclusion and things you talked about makes me understand a lot more about this game, it actually ease my mind 😅
i dont think anyone realizes how beautiful this game is beyond the DS or anything else, just story wise its just so intricately well made. The music, the entrance of each character, the plot twists and mechanics are the cherry on top, my favorite line was "You see Barnham, what Phoenix used there.... was logic."
This is still my favorite crossover game as it originally introduced me to ace attorney. I remembered following the development of this game for so long that the original switch up from the two opposing each other to working together was a move i didn't see coming but would later appreciate but couldn't form words of why i enjoyed exploring the game's mystery. Until I played the Ace Attorney series up to that point, i, too, originally thought it was a layton game starring Phoenix Wright but not as intricate as you stated in this video, it was mostly because he stole all the investigation and questioning portions which i wasn't accustomed to beforehand but in his series his lawyer-detective playstyle is what i remember jelling with when i played which encouraged me to get to the end. I loved this entry so much that i would be greedy enough for a sequel.... but we know that it won't happen, but I'm grateful that this game inspired some sort of formula change in ace attorney afterward. Fingers crossed New world of steam has gained something from the crossover too !
this was the only prof layton game i hadn't played until this summer and i cant believe how much i enjoyed it! now I'm obsessed with ace attorney as well
Honestly, such an excellent analysis of one of my favourite games of all time! I recently discovered your channel through your Layton videos and I'm always really impressed with how easily you are able to discern what makes each story special and how you express your thoughts succinctly yet very effectively, making your videos fly by real quick. Especially liked your section around the AA side of the game, hope one day you'll dive into the franchise again, would love to hear your thoughts on the rest of it! Keep up the good work!! 🫡🫡
What a great essay. I love, love, love this game, as an AA superfan it was my last game to finish in that franchise and is now one of my faves in the franchise, and the introduction in my now ongoing run through Professor Layton. On a story level, I want to comment too on how it seems to compound like both franchises extremes in how messed up the story implications can go, with Layton's scale of artifice and mass town hysteria and crazy sci-fi black mirror-ness, and Ace Attorney's really dark depths of personal tragedy/despair like with Greyerl. I feel like I got a story that could have Only happened because it is a crossover, for all the better.
Yeah, this was honestly the best case scenario for this type of game, at least for me. I don't know if we'll ever see a crossover between two series this compelling again.
I'm really happy TH-cam recommended me this video, I really enjoyed it as a big Dan of both series. can't wait to watch all your other videos, they look so interesting!
Professor layton Vs. Phoenix Wright is one of the best games I've ever played. I so badly wish I can experience this game for the first time once again. I absolutely love everything about it. The music, the story, the characters, the gameplay, the puzzles. This game is just so damn cool. It's also the first Professor layton or Ace attorney game I've completed. It's what got me to start playing the other games in their series. I'm currently playing Apollo justice, and on my free time I'm playing the curious village HD on my phone while at work. It was the perfect amount of difficulty for me when I first played it. Sure I used a good amount of hint coins but not once did I have to search for the solution of a puzzle. I highly reccomend that people play this game, as said before by many people, it's a great game to start off either professor layton or Ace attorney. This game is greatly underrated, and isn't talked about as much as it should. It's sad to know that this game, and many others will not be recognized for the amazing content that they give, just because they are underrated. The story at the end of the video is very sweet. Friends playing games on the bus ride home and coming up with theories and ideas of what to do when on the bus is adorable. I wish I could have had more experiences like this as a kid. I envy you. Tldr: This game is amazing, 10/10 I definitely reccomend playing this game. I hope that everyone has a wonderful day.
Thanks for your support! Vs. is one of my all time favorites, so I'm glad I was able to give it some more recognition online. Hopefully it get ported off the 3DS at some point.
As someone who's only played Ace Attorney games and thought PLvPW is one of the best games I've ever played, this video managed to motivate me to give Professor Layton games a try!
i dont have a 3ds so i just resorted to watching the game, and i kinda came in not really expecting much considering i know that the game had original characters. admittedly the prologue layton chapter took me a while to get used to but as soon as i was hooked i was in DEEP and wouldnt watch anything else until i finished the game. like, i honestly didn't expect liking the game as much as i did and now i'm gonna binge watch it again bc of this video. you brought up so many good points and so many considerations that will definitely make my rewatch that much more special
This crossover is actually what got me into Ace Attorney. Professor Layton was a series I loved dearly, and when I saw the crossover was announced, I figured it was about time to check out what that Phoenix Wright had to offer. AA is now one of the biggest fandoms I have, and I have VS to thank for that.
Before I finish watching, I just want to mention my view on the "balance" of the crossover. The Layton vibes are chill, and while they do take up more of the space in the game but you only just barely feel it. The Ace Attorney vibes are huge and bombastic (as especially exemplified by the Ace Attorney styled music used) and absolutely get the blood pumping. So while Layton is a constant presence, Phoenix's presence shoots massive spikes out of the tone of the game, making his sections significantly more memorable in the long run. God I still listen to the ace attorney music from this game.
Seeing all of this Golden Court love online recently has made me regain hope in humanity. Seriously one of my top 5 cases in the whole series. This was one of the most fun visual novels I've ever played through, I always wondered what a game like Danganronpa or Ace Attorney would be like if magic was incorporated into the cases, and little did I know it was right under my nose the whole time. Great game with a lot of unsung praise, fantastic video.
Wow, I recently discovered your channel and now this video is in my recommendation, awesome. Guess I'll just subscribe. On another note, I really like this game and wrote a section about it in a game log for university as it is a great example for ludic elements in text-heavy games.
This game and Bravely Default were the two games I was lent by my teenaged long-distance boyfriend back in the day. I made it less than an hour into Bravely Default before losing interest, but I _finished_ Layton vs Phoenix. I was already a fan of Layton, so I struggled and pulled up guides through the courtroom scenes, but the game really did a wonderful job of introducing me to what Phoenix Wright was all about. And though I still haven't played a proper Phoenix Wright game myself, I certainly wouldn't be opposed if given a good opportunity.
I'm so glad someone else adores this game as much as I do! When it first came out, I heralded it as my favorite video game! ...And then the Internet happened, and people couldn't stand it, so I'm grateful that at least one other person can so eloquently express my gratitude toward this masterpiece! Keep up the amazing work!
I played this game as an Ace Attorney fan who had never played Professor Layton (although knew about it and was very curious about it). I definitely think it's way more of a Professor Layton game than an Ace Attorney game and a really good introduction at that. I believe it was my first 3DS game and after that I went and got every Professor Layton game available. Thus, it definitely worked for me getting into the series. I didn't finish Azran Legacy until 2020 when I had spare time, but I got through most of them early and really, really enjoyed them (Lost Future is my favourite). It's also really interesting how this game feels like a really good prototype to ideas that were fully developed in the Great Ace Attorney.
Another great video! I originally wasn't going to include PLvsAA in my endeavor to replay the Layton prequel games, but after watching this I really want to give it another chance (I haven't had the time to go through Azran Legacy yet though, so that comes first). I have somewhat mixed (but overall positive) feelings about the game, none of them really the fault of the game itself. One of the most noteworthy aspects of the game at the time was how long it took to come out, almost two years between the Japanese and North American release dates. If you consider the time between the first Japanese trailer and the NA release date it's more like 4 years. In that regard, the wait time almost perfectly corresponded with my time in high school, making it feel even longer. In that time I really ended up stewing on what the game could be, forming my own expectations on the little knowledge I had. When the game finally came out I definitely wasn't disappointed, I loved the game, but there was a natural dissonance that came from the game not being what I'd led myself to believe it was. When I replayed Miracle Mask a bit ago I found a whole new appreciation for the game coming from the fresh perspective of time passing so I'm now really curious what a replay of PLvsAA could do for me in that regard. I think the main reason I really want to replay the game now is this video explained something I've always been curious about. That is, I've heard a lot of people online say this game was their introduction to one series or the other, and I never fully understood that. Being a fan of both series when the game came out I always just sorta took it for granted, like any other crossover, that one's enjoyment of the game would derive from how much they enjoyed the parent franchises and their respective characters. I'm definitely thinking I didn't fully appreciate the original story they were going for, so I'd like to experience it again with that angle in mind. All that said though, I think I'll probably be sticking with my original opinion on the ending from all those years ago.... Even for a Layton game, that ending twist was almost too out-there for me to suspend my disbelief on. I remember my jaw dropping when the machinery all over the town was revealed lol
Yeah, I came into Vs. as an Ace Attorney fan (this being my first Layton game), and now I'm totally more of a Layton fan than an Ace Attorney one. The funny part is that I think the trial segments of this game are overall the much more engaging parts, but I think that's precisely because of the way the trials incorporate the Layton-like setting and story structure. So I would always come away from this game thinking, "man, Ace Attorney is so awesome," but I don't think that was ever the whole story.
ok i havent seen the video yet but im currently on my first playthrough of plvspw and i think its one of my fav games ever and was just laughing and confused that its so underrated and kind of just seen as a crossover and not as its own unique thing. also yea. 10/10
This game is just so good. while ace attorney get a lot of remaster, and layton get a new game, I hope that one day, this game make his way out of 3DS and get a remaster too, so that it can be played by new player.
I’m watching pixel partners walk through with my sibling and your school bus story just reminded me of the fantastic time we’re having - with me already played through and the other watching with fresh eyes
Despite me disagreeing with a lot of your points I still enjoyed the video I also can see your points and they are valid For me this game is mid in terms of AA game but I agree with the most experimental and most creative one I hope you can make more vids like this You earn a new sub
No ace Attorney would 100% threaten and show Maya as dead. Her being in danger or on trial is a once per game occurence. Specifically there's a case in ace Attorney trials and tribulations where it appears Maya was murdered, and of course Phoenix's devastation is a focus
crossovers are a lot like first dates; ideally you'd want both parties involved to have genuine chemistry and a lot of fun together, but it's best when it happens at a neutral territory like a restaurant
Most crossover videogames tend to be multiplayer party games where the whole hook of the game is seeing you favorite characters beat each other up for fun (Marvel vs Capcom, Super Smash Bros, Fortnite, etc) This game however is truly special because it properly combines a group of characters from different series is an actual story. Sure Kingdom hearts exists but it doesnt really FEEL like a proper crossover since your following everything from Sora's POV. The only other examples of what Vs did that i can think of Bandai Namco's SRW.
Opening narration says no beef with Smash Bros or Kingdom Hearts, but I totally get what the author means. Super Smash Bros is not a good Zelda or Pokemon game. It's not exactly meant to be, but if you're looking at it expecting to see the essence of Zelda or Pokemon it's not there. The characters are pantomiming their iconic traits. And that's fine for Smash Bros because the fanservice is something of a veil and a gimmick, the game will still ultimately live or die based on its gameplay (which Smash Bros. thankfully has rather good gameplay). Kingdom Hearts is a bit different as it earnestly does try to be a crossover retelling of its Disney movies, but I think a lot of Kingdom Hearts fans will be quick to agree that integrating the Disney Movies properly is one of the weakest elements in the series (though it various from each individual Kingdom Hearts game).
![เขามัทรี - เอ็กซ์ ศุภกฤต - จอนนี่มิวสิค [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AS9ufKuQIVs/mqdefault.jpg)
Whew... I actually managed to get this out for the 10th anniversary (at least for North America). Hope you all enjoy!
No Objections! :) Very well done video!
THis game is talked about so little and I’m so happy to see someone do such an in depth video essay on it
Yup, this game (alongside the Layton prequels) was another one where I was looking on TH-cam and thinking "why has no one talked about this?"
@@AurumAlex64 there are so many highly underrated, amazing games that don't get talked about as much as it should. It's a shame that there are people who would absolutely love the underrated game but because it's underrated they can go their whole lives not knowing about it.
I think you make a good point about it being a "Layton game starring Phoenix Wright." In fact, now I'm convinced that Layton games shouldn't have Layton as the main character at all. It's much more satisfying to let the player unravel the mystery behind the strange town du jour -- than it is to have Layton explain everything at the last minute with some independent research the audience never saw.
I feel like that's why we got Luke in the main series - he's usually more of a player insert than Layton
Yah… I feel like it still had times that felt kinda insulting but I digress
Nope. Layton forever.
the sherlock holmes stories are from watson's pov, so this does make sense
I wonder if this game will forever be stuck on the 3DS or eventually it will be rereleased. Every Ace Attorney game is now available for modern platforms and the first three Professor Layton games are available on Google Play/App Store. I think Level-5 needs to follow Capcom's example and port the Professor Layton games to Switch, specially before New World of Steam release. I would love to play Last Specter and the others on a TV and maybe add this crossover game as well, it might sold decently more.
Yup, I would definitely like that too. Although Level-5 seems to be having some trouble getting their games actually released right now, so hopefully that changes soon
Investigations came on the switch. Miracles can happen.
Unfortunately, every Layton game would need serious retooling to convey the same information on one screen instead of two. Even the mobile ports of the OG trilogy cheat a little by using the vertical screen to mimic the DS aspect ratio.
Maybe capcom can publish it. There are no new ace attorney games to port. And I don’t see a new Ace Attorney coming soon.
@@verskartonCapcom probably can't since Level 5 holds most of the legal rights to the collab game. Unless Level 5 gives them a go ahead signal, they can't do shit. It's also one of the reason Capcom still doesn't want to translate the Ace Attorney remasters in languages such as Italian or Spanish: the original DS games had translations... that were curated by Nintendo teams, not Capcom ones, and so they legally own the rights to those translations, not Capcom. If Capcom wanted to release Italian/Spanish translations, they'd have to do them again, which is a bummer
I think the line about phoenix being in labyrinthia on accident is kinda fitting. I feel like a major part of his character is sticking his nose in situations when no one asked him to and solving them.
I think it’s *extremely* telling that capcom would take a lot of the spins on the AA formula in this game (multiple witnesses at the same time, pitting people’s opinions against each other to change consensus, a setting where modern forensic technology isn’t recognized) and use them in the Great Ace Attorney duology. They’re amazing mechanics that up the ante without detracting from the traditional mindset of the gameplay a la Apollo’s bracelet (as you said).
I have no idea what they’ll do to make AA7 feel new and refreshing, but whatever they do I hope they keep multi-witness statements, because TGAA1&2 utilized them excellently in a more grounded setting after this game proved they could work. Thanks for covering this, amazing analysis. Gonna go replay it again :P
edit: I posted this literally 15 seconds before you addressed it in the video whooops lol. While I do agree that PLvPW does do these mechanics well, sometimes even better than GAA, I do think it’s like comparing apples and oranges. There’s value to the slower, more grounded stories of the mainline and GAA ace attorney games, and there’s value to the more fast paced and exhilarating stories of the Layton games. While I would agree that PLvPW was already “sprinting” as you said with these mechanics, TGAA wanted to use them in a differently paced story, which I think works great for what it’s going for.
Oh, actually I totally agree with your last point. The reason I didn't want to say PLvPA walked so GAA could run is exactly _because_ I think both games approach the same mechanics from different angles. So it's less that I think GAA's mechanics are worse or less interesting than PLvPA, and more that I think PLvPA's specific combination of magic and multiple witnesses is too interesting to be overlooked by being placed solely in GAA's shadow.
@@AurumAlex64 Oh, I love that! Thanks for adding that, I absolutely agree.
Sidenote: you already got a fan with your paper mario videos, but seeing you cover Layton (and maybe more AA in the future) has made you a mainstay in my rewatch/listen circulation. Can’t wait to see what you make next.
In terms of plot structure, I don't think it's really fair to stack "one" Professor Layton game against "one" Ace Attorney game. You're right that an Ace Attorney game is just a series of cases that barely connect to each other, which is why I abandon the premise and instead compare Professor Layton mysteries to Ace Attorney "episodes." In that sense, the similarities in scale become more clear. Layton's tension comes from "You and/or your friends are trapped here until you find the truth," while Wright's tension comes from "You have to find the truth in two or three days or else an innocent person will be charged with murder." Those are the two story formats that PLvAA tries to weld together.
I think you're right about that. I was mostly trying to point out that I think the courtroom setting of Ace Attorney is enhanced by being placed in a more cohesive, interconnected Layton world. So I'm glad that the game choose to go with the format of a Layton story, because I think Labyrinthia would be way less compelling if we explored it via the more discrete case structure of an Ace Attorney game. I like that the crimes in this game happen "naturally" over the course of an unfolding story.
Reminder that this is the only Ace Attorney game still not on Switch. If they make it happen, that’ll also pave the way for the Layton series on Switch.
Isn't there already a Layton game announced for Switch?
New World of Steam, yes. But what is meant here is for the old Layton games from the DS and 3DS to be remastered for the Switch. So far the only "Layton" game on Switch is Katrina, the arguably worst one of the series. @@yamisean3298
@@yamisean3298 I think they mean ports of the old games
I recently tried to make my partner experience this game, as they were a newcomer to Phoenix Wright and I was a veteran of both series; but the 3DS's tiny screen just doesn't work when shared between the giant hands of two adults. This game is in desperate need of a remaster, now that the rest of the PW series is immortalized onto Steam.
Hopefully with Level-5 gearing up to make a lot of games again (and then delaying all of them for some reason), they and Capcom can work to bring this outside of the 3DS.
Put it on the switch!
The Golden Court is a top 10 ace attorney case btw.
Correct
I find it insane how you manage to consistently cover some of my favorite series no matter how different they may be
The Crossover have some faults - a lot of faults, people might say - but I will always appreciate it since Shu's time working on this game directly inspired (or at least helped solidify) Great Ace Attorney, and that's the best the series been in a while.
For an example of "Ace Attorney logic in a fantastical setting" check out "Tyrion Cuthbert: Attorney of the Arcane", a game that is very much trying to be an Ace Attorney game but with the ability to present magic spells that seem pretty similar to PLvPW (without the Layton twist). Also a banger soundtrack.
Interesting! I'll have to take a look at that
Ooo i should continue that soon
As someone who loves both Ace attorney and Professor Layton, this is my 4th favorite Ace Attorney game and my 2nd favorite Layton game, only losing to Ace Attorney Investigations 2: Prosecutor’s Gambit, The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve, Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies, and Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask.
Absolutely phenomenal game. Character writing and mystery writing was perfect (thank you Shu Takumi), the music was exceptional, and due to Shu Takumi’s help, the twist… actually withstands pressure against Logic, unlike most Layton twists with blatant contradictions (such as us seeing children in folsense, the Sky being so bright in Lost Future, everything that has to do with the Spectre’s Apperance, and a heavy lack of clues to deduce who the people of Saint Myster are).
The logic that runs Labyrinthia is just so cool. Though to be honest, I've never really minded how nonsensical Layton stories can be. Like, does it at all make sense that they somehow managed to build an *entire* replica amusement park right behind the original in Monte D'or, and somehow nobody noticed (even though there's literally a roller coaster in the park)? No, it makes no sense whatsoever, but, like, there's so many other things in Miracle Mask that are interesting to talk about instead, so it's hard to care all too much. I've never even seen anyone bring up this as a point against MM in the first place, and that's because I think most people don't really mind either.
@@AurumAlex64 I care when the major plot twists make sense. Literally everything about the magic in this game makes sense as every spell can be explained (except Godoor). Now, the invisible black cloth makes sense, but isn’t as airtight given that if you were walking around the bell tower, you wouldn’t be able to see someone on the other side. But those are the only exceptions.
Now for miracle mask, the major twists makes sense. The identity of the Masked Gentleman makes sense, the twist of where the mask of order is makes sense, with the only one not making as much sense is Descolè’s involvement, but I’ll give that a pass because, at the end of the day, his motive for going to these lengths does make sense.
I agree, but I think would go further and say that, if you have coherence of character, coherence of plot becomes relatively unimportant. The logistics of Future London in Unwound Future are so impossible it's hard to know where to begin. Not to mention at the end, it features a genuine instance of time travel. And yet, despite these impossibilities, UF is without a doubt the most popular game in the series. And that's because the setting meshes with the characters in really interesting ways.
Future London is a city of corruption and greed, where gangsters set the law of the land. Except, Clive wants to make the argument that this horrible version of London isn't in the future, it's representative of the very real reality of London in the present. So the twist of Future London being fake makes perfect sense, despite not making any sense at all, because it matches the themes and psychology of Clive as a character. I would say this essentially applies to all of the Layton games, which is why I never end up feeling cheated when the major plot twists don't hold up under strict scrutiny.
@@gavout1511 The miracle mask is not a very good game and its story is pretty bad. Why would Randall blindly trust everything a letter was saying rather than talk to his friends? How would Descole know Randall would do exactly everything that letter said? How the heck did Angela disguised herself as Mordy? And seriously, can you really call the identity of the Masked Gentleman a twist? It's obvious from almost the start of the game. And what really bothers me is that Layton barely has any reaction to it. The game really seems to forget Randall was his best friend. You have no moment where Layton seems to show emotions to Randall being the "Big Bad". Even though Randall is an important part of his life. He's part of the reason he's who he is today and his death is presented as a tragedy to him. You have no moments of Layton acting like a friend to him either after the climax because the game somehow thought it was a good idea to make Layton leave the town directly after it. Like, what?! It really dimishes the impact of having seeing those two as friends in the flashbacks because their friendship was inessential in the end. I already thought those flashbacks were superficial (because we already knew what happenned but the story was dragging on) but at the end of the game they were just outright unnecessary.
@@AurumAlex64 I disagree. If the coherence of your plot is forced to go a certain way to establish a coherence of character, then, said coherence of character will also be forced. Which is very bad writting. And it would help the game actually supported Clive's point of view and showed actual corruption in London instead of just putting it all on Bill Hawks. What bothers me in all Layton games is that they go all out right from start with a big mystery but in the end gives you very wacky explanations. And, sometimes, it just feels like Layton read the script of the game.
While I really do not like the Layton twist at the end of this game, I absolutely adore it otherwise and agree with the majority of your points! It's great seeing such an in depth analysis and appreciation for such an underrated gem.
Oh and you're 300% right about how incredible The Golden Court is
As much as I love this game imagine if Layton and Luke were the ones to have their memories wiped and Layton became the inquisitor of the game. That would have been kinda fun and a great way to go with the whole Wright vs Layton theme. Plus the angst potential of Luke falling into the fire and Layton crying without knowing why is worth its weight in GOLD! 👀
Fanfic potential aside I love this game so much! Definitely in my top three Layton games for sure! 😁
Definitely an interesting angle -- although, I would be very sad to lose out on Barnham as the main inquisitor
@@AurumAlex64 He can be Layton’s bestie. As a treat!
THANK YOU for making this video. You really captured a lot of my thoughts- that while Layton is the foundation for this game and story, that all the more works in the Ace Attorney side's favor. Of course Phoenix & Maya would get accidentally wrapped up in something crazy and overwhelming- that's just what they do!
Here's hoping the game gets a port or remaster!
Edit: Got a little too occupied writing my little piece that i forgot the basic courtesy of writing my appreciation for this video. Thank you. Your analyses really puts into perspective the things i like and in turn makes me gush more about what VS does right. Really enjoyed this vid!
Since people are already seeing similarities in mechanics of The Great Ace Attorney and VS, i would like to point out another in terms of two story trope that TGAA definitely utilizes with VS clearly as the inspiration. Non-death trials being a very unexpected intricate anchor for weighty plot developments and important casts removal that ACTUALLY happens and affects the world and writing. VS having the first trope be the entire focal point of the twist and the second trope being non-permanent, while inversely TGAA has only one case that spans the duology for the first trope and a layered removal cast for the first and a cast removal that shakes the entire world and even players for the second. Seriously makes me sing praise for both games because it made me look back to the Ace Attorney franchise i love and made me think "Man, it's actually ridiculous how the protagonist lawyers are just like in a scenic boat ride that goes on a predetermined path and nothing wild shall ever happen!". The first trope making me realize how powerful subtle foreshadowing is and the second trope refreshening my enjoyment towards the series cause dark sudden and irreversible turns in the flow of the boat ride goes a long way to shake up the experience.
You've done a superb job highlighting all of this game's strengths. It's always irked me when people say that VS is a poor representation of Ace Attorney. I'll direct them to this video from now on.
Possibly the most based take of all time. The crossover is CRIMINALLY underappreciated, and as someone who was a fan of both series before playing, it blew me away with what it was able to accomplish. Glad to see someone finally talk about it!
I appreciated your little anecdote at the end
I finally finished the video and it's absolutely wonderful. Not only is it great to just see someone talk about Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright in general, but you also brought up many points that just reminded me of why i really love this game to begin with.
PLvsPW was actually my very first Layton game as someone who was primarily an Ace Attorney fan and was curious to what Professor Layton was actually about. So while PLvsPW isn't my ultimate favourite game in either franchise, i still love it a lot and it will always hold a special place in my heart. It's a great game on its own and a great mix of PL and AA, as well as a great introduction to both series
Yup, I was in the same boat when I played this game. I'd been a huge Ace Attorney fan when this came out, but never played Layton before. Now I'm an even huger Layton fan.
It was kind of my first Layton too. I tried Curious Village before, didn't get far and it didn't hook me immediately.
VS was just more interesting from the get go and I feel introduces Layton & Luke better than CV, since you get a better feeling of how much the professor means to the boy and Luke's ability to speak to animals is introduced more naturally imo
You really hit the nail on the head and expertly touched upon every single one of this game's merits. I've been thinking about this game ever since its announcement, and in hindsight I am dumbfounded by its lukewarm reception. This game now holds a special place in my heart and it was upsetting not being able to convey that passion to the Layton and Ace Attorney fan bases that seemed more than willing to write the game off as nothing more than a cute but flawed distraction. Seeing someone that gets what makes this game so special and convey it so incredibly well is so validating to see. Thanks for this dissertation on the game.
If you don't mind, I'd like to get into why this game is so special to me, below.
I was addicted to the Nintendo DS as a kid. It was a wonderful system that introduced me to odd games and unlikely genres. My love for the Brain Age/Brain Training games led me to discover the Layton series. At the time, the Layton series was gaining popularity in the EU, and it was one of the few games of its kind that was localized to my native language, with expert localizations into Dutch starting with the second Layton game. I adored the world, the characters, the animated sequences, and music of the Layton games so much. It captured my vivid imagination and I would often fantasize about these games when I wasn't playing them. But a major stumbling block for me as a young kid was always the game's puzzles. Especially in the first (English-only) Layton game, which I had a hard time of understanding due to my lack of English comprehension at the time. I would often reach out to my older siblings and my father for them to help with the puzzles or to translate something I didn't understand. To this day, some of my fondest gaming memories is solving Layton puzzles with my family. They always loved helping me out. My dad was fond of Sudoku and crossword puzzles himself, and I remember his excitement in being able to relate to my passion for gaming (something he was otherwise indifferent toward) through the puzzle-focused adventures of Layton.
It was in the midst of my obsession with the Layton series that I became aware of the announcement of the Layton VS Wright crossover. As a young kid that was only just allowed access to the internet, I would scour Japanese gaming websites, not understanding a single thing whatsoever, just to get more details on this seemingly elusive Layton crossover game that was just announced or tracking down the newest leaked magazine details on Pokemon Black and White. At that time, I didn't have much familiarity with the Ace Attorney series. A few years before all this, I got my hands on a Nintendo DS flashcard with on it the at-that-time recently released Apollo Justice Ace Attorney. My English comprehension was still poor back then, so after giving the game a few tries I dropped the game for years, not giving it a second thought. Fast forward to me discovering the existence of the crossover game online. As I described above I became obsessed with the Layton series in the interim and my English improved drastically in that timeframe. Spurred on by the announcement of the Layton VS Wright crossover, I was excited to give that weird courtroom game from back then another shot. This decision was quite literally life-changing in hindsight. In a single summer, I played through all Ace Attorney games available at that time. Ace Attorney became my single biggest obsession, easily overshadowing my childhood love for Pokemon and Layton, and to this day it's my favorite series in media. I'll spare you the details, but Ace Attorney has been one of the few constants in my life for 14-odd years now.
I couldn't play this crossover game until a few years after it had come out, unfortunately. I was stuck with an old DS and a flashcard with pirated games as my only means of gaming, as my family couldn't afford buying me new games, let alone a 3DS. I would substitute that lack of being able to play newer games myself with watching TH-cam Let's Plays and Twitch streams as my only alternative. I would listen to the incredible soundtrack of the crossover all the time, uploaded to TH-cam by fans when the Japanese version released, while eagerly awaiting the international release of the crossover which would still be a few years away. I turned watching a playthrough of this game into a whole event. It was in many ways a celebration of my love for two series I was so passionate about. But the experience was bittersweet, spoiled in a way, as I couldn't play my most anticipated game for myself. In the end, I had a good time, but that second-hand experience of the game ultimately fell somewhat short. Whether it was due to the envy of not being able to play the game for myself, or my extensive 4 year long hype build-up between announcement and international release giving me false expectations, or my initial disappointment with the fact that this was a wholly original story with few legacy characters from the Layton and Ace Attorney series returning; my experience with the game came and went and I resorted to joining the masses in writing the game off as nothing more than a decently fun curiosity.
Fast forward once again to many years later. I had since caught up with the rest of the Layton series and most of the Ace Attorney series, I started studying Japanese so that I could one day play Dai Gyakuten Saiban in its entirety for myself, and most importantly of all I got my hands on a 3DS. All of a sudden, an official localization of The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles was announced. This new release reinvigorated my love for Ace Attorney, as the later mainline releases of AA5 and AA6 didn't capture my imagination in the long-term beyond my first playthroughs of them. The Great Ace Attorney was an absolute joy, as it was constantly reminding me of what I loved so much about the series in the first place. Shu Takumi's games hold a very special place in my heart, with Ghost Trick being my favorite game of all time. Being finally able to play The Great Ace Attorney meant a lot, but as I was playing it I was constantly reminded of the crossover game, too. Great Ace obviously owes a lot to the crossover. As my playthrough of Great Ace came to a close, I was adamant to try the crossover out once again, this time with a new mindset and a chance to experience all it had to offer first-hand.
Over the course of about a month I made my way through the crossover, and I can't recall the last time playing a game had felt so magical. It was like I could finally appreciate this game for what it was. I was grinning constantly from ear to ear while playing the game, going on the insane ride that it is. The incredible amount of love and passion the developers had for these characters, for these series, but also for this new installment, was apparent during every second of my playthrough. I didn't just appreciate all the ways the crossover paid homage to its respective original series, but I had completely newfound appreciation for every single risk this crossover took to do something new and original. The crossover could have very easily been a by-the-numbers fan-service affair, but the developers capitalized on this once in a lifetime opportunity to double down on an insane setting with a very daring story: a massive risk that was absolutely worth taking in my book. I have insane amounts of respect for the game. You can tell that the developers had a lot of difficulty AND a lot of fun in squeezing as much potential out of this one fantastical chance meeting between these two universes.
Setting the game around the concept of Witch Trials is frankly a genius marriage of the worlds of Layton and Ace Attorney. I genuinely can't think of a single better setting that merges Layton's fantastical miraculous mysteries with Ace Attorney's courtroom environment. Frankly, this game shouldn't have been about anything else. It seems so obvious in hindsight. Yet the developers didn't stop there. They did the epic proportions of a story about magic and witches more than justice. Main characters fall victim; we get A Taste of Despair as the surviving characters get to linger in grief; we get to see incredible set-pieces and insane twists, animated gorgeously and brought to life in wonderful 3D with impressive voice performances; we get to explore an enchanting town with mesmerizing civilians that we get to meet inside and outside the courtroom, accompanied by one of the best soundtracks in gaming. The developers didn't rest on their laurels whatsoever. This game is longer than the original releases of the first Ace Attorney game and first Layton game combined. A big budget and 2 full development teams were mobilized to make this game happen. They went all out.
This is most apparent in the Ace Attorney side of the game. This is the first time we get to see these Ace Attorney characters in 3D, the first time they are voiced throughout larger stretches in the game and in 2D animated sequences. And on top of that we get to see wonderful twist on the Ace Attorney formula. The Grand Grimoire and the mob cross-examinations are wonderful twists on the Ace Attorney formula, and the chaotic nature of the witch trial setting is maybe the most perfect execution of Ace Attorney's concept the entire series has seen thus far. The witch trials perfectly contextualize the chaos, legal incompetence, the drama, the twists and turns, the biases, and the insanity that often gets criticized as unrealistic in the contemporary setting of the mainline Ace Attorney games. The Ace Attorney team did a wonderful job of amplifying what makes Ace Attorney work so well in this newer setting. In my opinion, the witch trial is the embodiment of the unique charm and insanity of Ace Attorney finally finding a place, where the unrealism and high stakes finally make complete sense. The incredibly oppressing nature of the witch trials, the defense having the odds stacked against them, the unfairness of this sham of a legal system, the incompetence of the parties involved; all aspects that have never been put to better use until this crossover. And in that difficult and unfair environment, the pursuit of justice and the truth becomes all the sweeter. The turnabouts are more satisfying, the twists are more drastic, the victory is more dramatic. Later Ace Attorney games have attempted to raise the stakes like this too, but no Ace Attorney game can match the bombast and pomp of this crossover, without undermining what makes Ace Attorney work. In that regard, I adore this crossover moreso as a deconstruction (and subsequent reconstruction) of Ace Attorney. The fact that this game manages to tell one continuous mystery from one episode to the next, rather than the standard anthologically isolated episodes of Ace Attorney, shows how willing the Ace Attorney team was to re-examine and develop what Ace Attorney can be (which would later pay off in the two-game-mystery that is Great Ace).
The Layton side of the crossover does an admirable job off pulling its weight, especially in the characterization of Layton and Luke as well as the portrayal of Labyrinthia, but mechanically the Layton side falls a bit short. There is only one single interesting twist on the Layton formula, namely the Turnabout Puzzle in the underground ruins. Again, another instance of the developers having fun with the opportunities of this crossover (after all, the Japanese marketing tagline for this game was "Puzzle x Contradiction" and the Turnabout Puzzle is the literal embodiment of that phrase). But beyond that, a lot of Layton series staples don't return in fresh new ways. There aren't fun side activities, like puzzles with a pet parrot/bunny/hamster/toy robot or minigames like the tea brewing in Layton 2, but perhaps that is what gives this game its unique flavor. This game feels more focused than the average Layton game, with less distractions or detours pulling away attention from the main story. The small sections where we do get shake ups, like the different investigation pairings of the main cast, all feel very well contextualized. In the end, my major hang-up with the Layton side of the game is the lack of difficulty in the puzzles. This game could have really capitalized on the portrayal of the oppressive tone of the witch trials and the more focused story by embedding more difficult puzzles into the world in more meaningful ways. My favorite puzzles in this crossover game are the ones that seem to directly reflect the story of the game, in either a literal or metaphorical way. I don't think it’s a coincidence that Puzzle 1 in this crossover is about guiding a light witch and a dark witch to their respective goals, obviously foreshadowing Espella and Darklaw's involvement in the story. Or Puzzle 9 being about marionettes that are being manipulated and pulled by their strings, just as the game is setting up the lore of the Storyteller. Or Puzzle 11 foreshadowing the setting and main twist of The Golden Court. The Layton team could really have leaned into this aspect more to make the puzzles in this game stand out. More fun twist like the Turnabout Puzzle, or perhaps something new akin to Layton 3's Puzzle Battle, or Layton 5's environments with 3D depth, or Layton 5's dungeon crawling chapter, could have gone a long way too. What I do really appreciate about the puzzles in this game is how many of them directly involve the main cast and how lovingly rendered their escapades are. Another highlight on the Layton side of things is of course how Layton becomes The Last Inquisitor. He often occupies the position at the end of the game of someone who has figured out the whole mystery off-screen and who has to reveal the twist to the cast one step at a time, and the role of the inquisitor is a great position to do that from. The fact that Layton is playable during short sections while he is an inquisitor is the cherry on top. It feels like the game is finally embracing that Layton VS Wright concept. They wrote themselves into a corner ever since they teased this game having "VS" in the title, and the angle they found for it is quite nice.
You can tell they gave it their all. We know now that development of this game was quite troubled at times, with the developers jokingly referring to this game as being not just "Layton VS Wright", but "Level-5 VS Capcom". Yet the developers persevered, making something that stands shoulder to shoulder with the games that came before, if not occasionally eclipsing the individual series.
I really want to thank you once again for making this video and allowing me to go on this trip down memory lane. You did a wonderful job of singing the games praises, highlighting its unique qualities, and dispelling the shadow that had been cast over this game. If this game clicks with you, it clicks unlike anything, and it's wonderful seeing this be true for other people too.
One point you raised in this video is particularly inspiring. You point out that this is a game about storytelling, a game about magical encounters, a game about believing in the fantasy. This theme becomes apparent in the game's magical Labyrinthian setting, as well as one layer above that in the game's more grounded and rational Layton/Ace Attorney settings, as well as yet another layer above that in the real world existence of this game as an unlikely work of art crossing over two fictional worlds on the 3DS. I will now forever remember this game by that meta theme, the theme of wanting to embrace the fantasy. This game is emblematic of a very magical journey I've been on with Layton and Ace Attorney for more than half my life now. I will always cherish that.
this was my first professor layton game and my second ace attorney game. a magical game to experience at the age of 11. wonderful video essay!
Wow, thank you for sharing that sweet story about you and your friends playing this game! I remember playing this game as a kid after falling in love with the Professor Layton series--it really was such an emotional journey. I really got so attached to Maya and Phoenix despite only vaguely knowing about Ace Attorney. And boy did the Professor's death scene hit me SO HARD as a kid. I didn't think about the logistics of it being improbable to kill a main character off, I CRIED for him being gone. I felt for Luke who essentially lost his father figure, for Phoenix who had to step in as a big brother figure after he lost his dear friend Maya and was grieving himself, and even for Espella who had been pushed aside by everyone but still showed her compassion to anyone in need. The emotions of this journey hit so hard in this game because all of the characters felt so real. They suffered like we do, but they were also able to come together in the darkest times to care for each other. One of the best games I have ever played, thank you for making this!!
This is the best analysis of the game I have heard yet! As a massive fan of both series, Vs. Is a dream come true and probably my favorite game of all time
Its so refreshing to see someone really appreciate this game, its not my personal favorite but I sure like it in my top for both franchises
Thank you for this video. I really feel like this game is underrated.
Sure compared to every other Phoenix game, it's the only one that's stuck on 3ds. But even then, I often see mixed reactions. When I personally think it's a awesome game from both Layton and Ace Attorney side.
Also even though the video is 1 hour long, I feel like you didn't talked enough about the music. That's one of my favourite things about the game.
Personally I would put it in top 3 Ace Attorney osts and the best ost from Layton games. Especially because it has my favourite puzzle theme from Layton games. It's just perfect. And it's amazing how the composer made the Pursuit theme feel epic, while ominous (because it's great you're winning the argument, but in the end you're basically ending life of another and often not even evil person)
Absolutely, the music in the game is legendary. I had it playing in the background of the video the whole time, so hopefully it was allowed to speak for itself, more or less.
I've been replaying this game in the last few days (the timing!), and thinking a lot about the "Professor Layton game featuring Phoenix Wright" idea. I wholeheartedly agree that the difference in timeline and scope that the two franchises typically follow made it inevitable that whichever scope this game had would feel like the "real" focus, but as I've been going through that I think the actual gameplay feels very much like both games throughout. I think part of the problem is that the trial sections can be briefly summarized through their culprit, victim, and actual sequence of events, whereas summarizing the grander story's mystery (which is much more Laytonesque) takes longer to explain thoroughly. The conciseness of the AA components, which is very true to AA primary games, makes it feel in retrospect like it was less of the game, whereas when actually playing it it feels much more evenly balanced. I'm still early in the video, but I'm so glad I've found it!
I do think that the characterization of Phoenix suffered slightly by his being treated more similarly to Layton. The Professor is generally a somewhat stoic guy who keeps his thoughts close to his chest, in a way that's necessary for his main games but makes him look more like a Sherlockian badass when next to Phoenix, who almost never knows anything until the moment he proves it in court. To offset this the game removes a lot of the internal Phoenix dialogue to make him seem more certain and confident, on par with the professor, but to not be in Phoenix's unsure head doesn't feel right to an AA fan. I can see the game trying to offset by that by letting the Professor impress Phoenix with his deductions, but then Phoenix just becomes another member of the crowd who looks to Layton for all the answers and that doesn't feel satisfying for a main character, either.
28:03 can I just say, Luke is 99% right here, but about an hour later there's a beautiful cutscene of Layton brandishing a stick exactly like that after using it as a defensive weapon 😅
You’ve convinced me to replay this game. I remember finding this game at a garage sale and I feel this is absolutely was the game with the best mechanics.
As someone who only got partly through the first Ace Attorney and never touched a Layton game, I can testify that this game was a wonderful experience when I played it.
Barnham really should have been present during the final boss fight instead just making a cameo in the epiloge cutscene. I what I think should have been to fix this is to have it so when Layton and Luke are about halfway there when it comes to scaling The Storyteller's tower, they find Barnham locked in a cell and free him. The 3 of them then go further up the tower to confront and capture The Storyteller and afterwards Layton and Barnham take over Darklaw's role and become the inqisiters Phoenix faces off against.
I've played every Layton and Ace Attorney game, and I love the crossover so much. I have such good memories playing it with a friend late into the night, voicing all the characters. It's fun seeing so many people here still enjoying it, and I hope we get a remaster one day so people can access the game easier. I have thought about this game possibly an unhealthy amount with how much art I have drawn and stories I have written for it. 😅 Thank you for making this video!
A 1 hour essay on my favorite Ace Attorney game? Hell yeah!
This crossover game is the reason why the great Ace attorney games exist as a spiritual successor.
I also wanted to make a 10 year anniversary appreciation of this game, but couldn't quite find the words. Glad I wasn't the only one with that idea.
It truly is the most impactful ace attorney game. (Now, if only we could get it on switch and have the whole series).
This year I decided to buy all the sixth main Layton games to play them. I just received today the original trilogy which is fun timing. The only game I owned all thesw years was this, the crossover and that is why I'm so attached to this game and maybe it is my favorite of Layton's saga, even though the story can be nonsensical some times. But still the characters are fun and interesting and that's what makes this game special.
Especially the second part of the golen court. Everything with the letter is one of my favorite fiction stories ever. In such a small amount of time it is able to pack intense emotions. I love it.
First of all, your video was great. I watched it in one go.
PLvsAA was the odd Layton game at first. I had just finished the prequels at the time and knew nothing about Ace Attorney. My first playthrough was mixed; I didn't know what to think of it. Maybe I was too young.
But after some time, I replayed all the Layton games, shed a tear for The Unwound Future, and then came PLvsAA, and it was a revelation. I wanted more. I came to love Ace Attorney as much as Professor Layton. It made me begin the Ace Attorney series, which is great.
Everything about this crossover touches on great characteristics of both universes, and the music, for me, is one of the key features that makes me want to replay PLvsAA.
It has come to be one of my favorite games of all time, even if people would say otherwise. I'd love more of this, but knowing the development hell it went through, I doubt it will be done anytime soon.
Also, I just wish that the animation of PL was made by that studio. It's too good.
But it's true that this game is really underrated. No one talks about it, yet many people loved it.
People would say Vs is a good introductory game for Ace Attorney fans into the Layton franchise, or vise versa, but nah, its an introductory game for both series to newbies such as your friends, and that's what made it so good.
I haven't played any Layton or Ace Attorney games (yet!) but I really enjoyed this video! I adore essays that let themselves integrate or end with personal anecdotes - as you discussed, stories can have such a profound impact on us, and I feel that having our analyses speak to that impact is kind of crucial to bridging that often-dangerous gap between 'narrative' and 'reality'. Suffice to say your little coda was really sweet and truly helped ground the whole essay for me. You've also given me a pretty good idea of where to start with both series now! Thanks for putting this out there :)
(also, thanks for having great subtitles! They are highly appreciated)
Thanks! I hope you enjoy the games, both series are so much fun!
I HAVE TO SHOW SOME SUPPORT- this was one of the most comprehensive, well-thought out and articulated video essay yet!! such an amazing breakdown of the much underrated crossover game in history imo!! thank you sm for making my night! ^w^
Thank you for your support! Vs. is my favorite game (top 5 at the very worst), so playing and talking about it was very rewarding!
yayy I really enjoyed seeing this come up in my feed and watching :)
I feel like one of the criticisms I heard and agreed with elsewhere about this game - maybe not even that much of a criticism - was wishing for interactions involving other AA-originating characters from past games meeting with Layton characters. the bonus fourth-wall breaking scenes of the game do that in a great way despite that though.
the section about the possibility of an AA game with different rules and logic I feel was even more realized in this fanmade playable ace attorney case Curiosity of a Turnabout that uses a different magic-in-AA world in very creative ways where everyone only has one power (and can even not tell the whole truth about the exact specifications of the power they have) which I highly recommend
this may just be a me thing, but sometimes I wondered how the shades could have managed to stage the scenes with some of those... I barely remember Familia but that seemed more impractical than the other spells to cast. and if I casted godoor I would totally try to feel around and poke and prod the space created (since it can't be actually portals but a literal hole) :p
there were some aspects that were really cool to recall that I apparently forgot by watching this too, like what 'alchemy' was actually meaning, and the storyteller's lower-effort stories later on lol
My imagination is that Famalia was literally just the Shades popping in themselves to act on the witches behalf -- their purple cloaks certainly look the part. As for Godoor, you could just stick some spooky-looking LEDs into the hole and BAM -- you'd have a convincing magic portal (after all, I doubt Labyrinthians will know what LEDs are). Then you just ring the bell after 5 minutes and patch up the hole while everyone's unconscious.
@@AurumAlex64 I remember feeling the 'weightless' part of Familia would be hard to use with an actual human, but yeah. and now that I think about it I guess a normal person would not have a drill or anything to be able to experiment with the inside of the hole very much anyway lol. (though imagine a witch finding a way to take off the LED's for their own decoration elsewhere, very cursed)
Honestly, that's probably why 'Witches' were limited by the scepters they had, made it so that they didn't have to worry about it on everyone.
this crossover laid the building blocks for the great ace attorney mechanics and that deserves all the respect in the world
Was an AA veteran when I played this, and it got me into PL.
So I can attest that it absolutely work as a start for Professor Layton at least.
I love your essays because they never feel farfetched or pedantic, despite all the complex themes you talk about in them. I hope your channel grows a lot after NWOS gets released!
Hope you don't mind that I frequently lost track of what you were saying and had to rewind because I got caught up listening to the music lol. Excellent video!
Now imagining having to edit while listening to it. There was a lot of unproductivity haha
A simply superb discussion of this fantastic crossover, which I feel many see as great, but don't give it it's proper due! I find your ability to get at what makes the core aspects of both series very interesting, and insightful, both to your philosophy of appreciate for these games and how all the pieces worked perfectly in the blend of pallets this title has! Keep up the great work, and have a lovely day :D
I thought your personal story would be well... Your personal playthrough. I think it's very fitting that your story you shared was a let's play with friends on the bus, a playthrough that happened by chance.
Great video, I never played the game myself but did watch a 100% playthrough as if "playing" along. As a huge fan of the Layton series (as you might tell) and knowing what the AA series is about, it was a great watch with a compelling Layton grand mystery chopped up into smaller AA courtroom cases. Learning more about Phoenix and Maya's characters through their interaction with Layton and Luke was great. The most memorable thing for me was the soundtrack, which both games are well known for, especially the credits theme being an epic medley of songs from both games. Great video about this underrated game.
Im so glad people are talking more about this game! It’s honestly both my favourite AA game and my favourite layton game!
I just want to point out to the French version, because they made the bold choice of giving Phoenix Wright a very distinct voice for this crossover.
I know mainly complaoned about it, and while the French VA can be criticized (some line deliveries are a little too flat at times), I actually really like this choice. It gives Nick some real personality. (Also, having non English VA is rare enough to be celebrated)
This video was a wonderful experience, one I wouldn't be surprised to come from a channel with hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Keep up the good work!
While I don't know whether it's the best for any franchise, it's by far the most underrated one. Everyone with a 3DS should play it.
The English Turnabout being a Top 10 Ace Attorney Case still is a bold claim though lol. But yeah, the Golden Turnabout most definitely is.
I really like your analysis videos of Layton. The way you manage to paint a clearer picture of the story in the games is very impressive.
I still would have loved for any of the concept ideas to still made it into the game. Like phantom mask phoenix
When you began adressing the labelling problem, which is correct between Layton game or AA game, I was skeptical at first. "why do this matter? lol"
but as I listen, your points hit me directly. how the truth reveal is progressing from Wright's POV, the fantasy-like setting more leaning to Layton than the realistic AA, is the true protag Wright or Layton, the story flow... they all in fact, do bothered me at one point when I was playing Vs! The conclusion and things you talked about makes me understand a lot more about this game, it actually ease my mind 😅
i dont think anyone realizes how beautiful this game is beyond the DS or anything else, just story wise its just so intricately well made. The music, the entrance of each character, the plot twists and mechanics are the cherry on top, my favorite line was "You see Barnham, what Phoenix used there.... was logic."
This is still my favorite crossover game as it originally introduced me to ace attorney. I remembered following the development of this game for so long that the original switch up from the two opposing each other to working together was a move i didn't see coming but would later appreciate but couldn't form words of why i enjoyed exploring the game's mystery. Until I played the Ace Attorney series up to that point, i, too, originally thought it was a layton game starring Phoenix Wright but not as intricate as you stated in this video, it was mostly because he stole all the investigation and questioning portions which i wasn't accustomed to beforehand but in his series his lawyer-detective playstyle is what i remember jelling with when i played which encouraged me to get to the end.
I loved this entry so much that i would be greedy enough for a sequel.... but we know that it won't happen, but I'm grateful that this game inspired some sort of formula change in ace attorney afterward. Fingers crossed New world of steam has gained something from the crossover too !
Liked the moment i found out you were a fellow Espella enjoyer
This is one of the best channels on TH-cam
Ooh I've been waiting for this video! Gonna get a cup of tea and sit down to watch this ❤
this was the only prof layton game i hadn't played until this summer and i cant believe how much i enjoyed it! now I'm obsessed with ace attorney as well
Honestly, such an excellent analysis of one of my favourite games of all time!
I recently discovered your channel through your Layton videos and I'm always really impressed with how easily you are able to discern what makes each story special and how you express your thoughts succinctly yet very effectively, making your videos fly by real quick.
Especially liked your section around the AA side of the game, hope one day you'll dive into the franchise again, would love to hear your thoughts on the rest of it!
Keep up the good work!! 🫡🫡
What a great essay. I love, love, love this game, as an AA superfan it was my last game to finish in that franchise and is now one of my faves in the franchise, and the introduction in my now ongoing run through Professor Layton. On a story level, I want to comment too on how it seems to compound like both franchises extremes in how messed up the story implications can go, with Layton's scale of artifice and mass town hysteria and crazy sci-fi black mirror-ness, and Ace Attorney's really dark depths of personal tragedy/despair like with Greyerl. I feel like I got a story that could have Only happened because it is a crossover, for all the better.
Yeah, this was honestly the best case scenario for this type of game, at least for me. I don't know if we'll ever see a crossover between two series this compelling again.
I'm really happy TH-cam recommended me this video, I really enjoyed it as a big Dan of both series. can't wait to watch all your other videos, they look so interesting!
What a thoughtful video on one of my favorite and most underrated 3DS titles. Thank you for your hard work!
Professor layton Vs. Phoenix Wright is one of the best games I've ever played. I so badly wish I can experience this game for the first time once again. I absolutely love everything about it. The music, the story, the characters, the gameplay, the puzzles. This game is just so damn cool.
It's also the first Professor layton or Ace attorney game I've completed. It's what got me to start playing the other games in their series. I'm currently playing Apollo justice, and on my free time I'm playing the curious village HD on my phone while at work.
It was the perfect amount of difficulty for me when I first played it. Sure I used a good amount of hint coins but not once did I have to search for the solution of a puzzle. I highly reccomend that people play this game, as said before by many people, it's a great game to start off either professor layton or Ace attorney.
This game is greatly underrated, and isn't talked about as much as it should. It's sad to know that this game, and many others will not be recognized for the amazing content that they give, just because they are underrated.
The story at the end of the video is very sweet. Friends playing games on the bus ride home and coming up with theories and ideas of what to do when on the bus is adorable. I wish I could have had more experiences like this as a kid. I envy you.
Tldr: This game is amazing, 10/10 I definitely reccomend playing this game. I hope that everyone has a wonderful day.
Thanks for your support! Vs. is one of my all time favorites, so I'm glad I was able to give it some more recognition online. Hopefully it get ported off the 3DS at some point.
I love how all the side characters are designed like Layton Characters while all the major characters all designed like Ace Attorney characters.
As someone who's only played Ace Attorney games and thought PLvPW is one of the best games I've ever played, this video managed to motivate me to give Professor Layton games a try!
that was such a sweet story at the end
thank you for this video, this is one of my favourite games of all time
i dont have a 3ds so i just resorted to watching the game, and i kinda came in not really expecting much considering i know that the game had original characters. admittedly the prologue layton chapter took me a while to get used to but as soon as i was hooked i was in DEEP and wouldnt watch anything else until i finished the game. like, i honestly didn't expect liking the game as much as i did
and now i'm gonna binge watch it again bc of this video. you brought up so many good points and so many considerations that will definitely make my rewatch that much more special
This crossover is actually what got me into Ace Attorney. Professor Layton was a series I loved dearly, and when I saw the crossover was announced, I figured it was about time to check out what that Phoenix Wright had to offer. AA is now one of the biggest fandoms I have, and I have VS to thank for that.
Before I finish watching, I just want to mention my view on the "balance" of the crossover.
The Layton vibes are chill, and while they do take up more of the space in the game but you only just barely feel it.
The Ace Attorney vibes are huge and bombastic (as especially exemplified by the Ace Attorney styled music used) and absolutely get the blood pumping.
So while Layton is a constant presence, Phoenix's presence shoots massive spikes out of the tone of the game, making his sections significantly more memorable in the long run.
God I still listen to the ace attorney music from this game.
The soundtrack of this game is one of the few that blows me away no matter how many times I relisten to it. Thank you for this video :)
brilliantly written and edited video!
Seeing all of this Golden Court love online recently has made me regain hope in humanity. Seriously one of my top 5 cases in the whole series. This was one of the most fun visual novels I've ever played through, I always wondered what a game like Danganronpa or Ace Attorney would be like if magic was incorporated into the cases, and little did I know it was right under my nose the whole time. Great game with a lot of unsung praise, fantastic video.
Wow, I recently discovered your channel and now this video is in my recommendation, awesome. Guess I'll just subscribe. On another note, I really like this game and wrote a section about it in a game log for university as it is a great example for ludic elements in text-heavy games.
Thanks! The way the magic system has both meaning gameplay-wise and through the story is one of the coolest parts of this game.
NEW PROFESSOR LAYTON VIDEO LET'S GOOOOOOOOO 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Havent played that much ace attorney, just the first 2 games... but this is my favorite ace attorney game.
32:27 I definitely did screenshot that for use as a meme, yes
This game and Bravely Default were the two games I was lent by my teenaged long-distance boyfriend back in the day. I made it less than an hour into Bravely Default before losing interest, but I _finished_ Layton vs Phoenix. I was already a fan of Layton, so I struggled and pulled up guides through the courtroom scenes, but the game really did a wonderful job of introducing me to what Phoenix Wright was all about. And though I still haven't played a proper Phoenix Wright game myself, I certainly wouldn't be opposed if given a good opportunity.
Yesssss! Notification squad! I’m so hype for this hour long masterpiece.
I'm so glad someone else adores this game as much as I do! When it first came out, I heralded it as my favorite video game! ...And then the Internet happened, and people couldn't stand it, so I'm grateful that at least one other person can so eloquently express my gratitude toward this masterpiece! Keep up the amazing work!
I played this game as an Ace Attorney fan who had never played Professor Layton (although knew about it and was very curious about it). I definitely think it's way more of a Professor Layton game than an Ace Attorney game and a really good introduction at that. I believe it was my first 3DS game and after that I went and got every Professor Layton game available. Thus, it definitely worked for me getting into the series. I didn't finish Azran Legacy until 2020 when I had spare time, but I got through most of them early and really, really enjoyed them (Lost Future is my favourite). It's also really interesting how this game feels like a really good prototype to ideas that were fully developed in the Great Ace Attorney.
Another great video! I originally wasn't going to include PLvsAA in my endeavor to replay the Layton prequel games, but after watching this I really want to give it another chance (I haven't had the time to go through Azran Legacy yet though, so that comes first).
I have somewhat mixed (but overall positive) feelings about the game, none of them really the fault of the game itself. One of the most noteworthy aspects of the game at the time was how long it took to come out, almost two years between the Japanese and North American release dates. If you consider the time between the first Japanese trailer and the NA release date it's more like 4 years. In that regard, the wait time almost perfectly corresponded with my time in high school, making it feel even longer.
In that time I really ended up stewing on what the game could be, forming my own expectations on the little knowledge I had. When the game finally came out I definitely wasn't disappointed, I loved the game, but there was a natural dissonance that came from the game not being what I'd led myself to believe it was. When I replayed Miracle Mask a bit ago I found a whole new appreciation for the game coming from the fresh perspective of time passing so I'm now really curious what a replay of PLvsAA could do for me in that regard.
I think the main reason I really want to replay the game now is this video explained something I've always been curious about. That is, I've heard a lot of people online say this game was their introduction to one series or the other, and I never fully understood that. Being a fan of both series when the game came out I always just sorta took it for granted, like any other crossover, that one's enjoyment of the game would derive from how much they enjoyed the parent franchises and their respective characters. I'm definitely thinking I didn't fully appreciate the original story they were going for, so I'd like to experience it again with that angle in mind.
All that said though, I think I'll probably be sticking with my original opinion on the ending from all those years ago.... Even for a Layton game, that ending twist was almost too out-there for me to suspend my disbelief on. I remember my jaw dropping when the machinery all over the town was revealed lol
Yeah, I came into Vs. as an Ace Attorney fan (this being my first Layton game), and now I'm totally more of a Layton fan than an Ace Attorney one. The funny part is that I think the trial segments of this game are overall the much more engaging parts, but I think that's precisely because of the way the trials incorporate the Layton-like setting and story structure. So I would always come away from this game thinking, "man, Ace Attorney is so awesome," but I don't think that was ever the whole story.
YES! This game is one of my favorites and it doesn't get enough love. All your points are great, especially the character analyses.
14:50 Glad you put the Xenoblade note in there, 'cause I was gonna say something. XD
ok i havent seen the video yet but im currently on my first playthrough of plvspw and i think its one of my fav games ever and was just laughing and confused that its so underrated and kind of just seen as a crossover and not as its own unique thing. also yea. 10/10
This game is just so good. while ace attorney get a lot of remaster, and layton get a new game, I hope that one day, this game make his way out of 3DS and get a remaster too, so that it can be played by new player.
you posted a PLvsPW video RIGHT WHEN I'M PLAYING IT!! WOAH
I’m watching pixel partners walk through with my sibling and your school bus story just reminded me of the fantastic time we’re having - with me already played through and the other watching with fresh eyes
This was the first Ace Attorney and Layton game I ever played and it got me hooked on both series
Layton looks so badass though
Despite me disagreeing with a lot of your points I still enjoyed the video
I also can see your points and they are valid
For me this game is mid in terms of AA game but I agree with the most experimental and most creative one
I hope you can make more vids like this
You earn a new sub
No ace Attorney would 100% threaten and show Maya as dead. Her being in danger or on trial is a once per game occurence. Specifically there's a case in ace Attorney trials and tribulations where it appears Maya was murdered, and of course Phoenix's devastation is a focus
Also the bad ending of JFA has Maya’s actual offscreen death and Phoenix’s grief over it
@@Excelsior1937 technically I believe phoenix says she probably was released but he never saw her again
crossovers are a lot like first dates; ideally you'd want both parties involved to have genuine chemistry and a lot of fun together, but it's best when it happens at a neutral territory like a restaurant
Most crossover videogames tend to be multiplayer party games where the whole hook of the game is seeing you favorite characters beat each other up for fun (Marvel vs Capcom, Super Smash Bros, Fortnite, etc)
This game however is truly special because it properly combines a group of characters from different series is an actual story. Sure Kingdom hearts exists but it doesnt really FEEL like a proper crossover since your following everything from Sora's POV.
The only other examples of what Vs did that i can think of Bandai Namco's SRW.
No matter how 'ridiculous' the plot may be or the ending being rushed, I love this game it's so good 😩
This was my first Ace Attorney game.
And I got it because I was starved of new Layton Games and randomly saw it in GameStop
Opening narration says no beef with Smash Bros or Kingdom Hearts, but I totally get what the author means. Super Smash Bros is not a good Zelda or Pokemon game. It's not exactly meant to be, but if you're looking at it expecting to see the essence of Zelda or Pokemon it's not there. The characters are pantomiming their iconic traits. And that's fine for Smash Bros because the fanservice is something of a veil and a gimmick, the game will still ultimately live or die based on its gameplay (which Smash Bros. thankfully has rather good gameplay). Kingdom Hearts is a bit different as it earnestly does try to be a crossover retelling of its Disney movies, but I think a lot of Kingdom Hearts fans will be quick to agree that integrating the Disney Movies properly is one of the weakest elements in the series (though it various from each individual Kingdom Hearts game).