Over the last few years, I've always wondered if there is an easier way to hold down on the C stick before and acting out of dash dance. Like imagine if you could use a foot pedal to press down the C stick, I could see that being a huge advantage. What would be the limits of controller legality? I feel like unless you are using the Javi claw or boxx, you may be at a disadvantage since Javi claw frees your thumb.
I've found you can use the thumb joint to hold down the c stick. Then you can more quickly move the tip of your thumb to the button cluster, allowing quick action. I do have abnormally large hands though (to the point where the gamecube controller is a bit too small for me)
Also: If you use a shallower angle on the C-stick (i.e. a down diagonal) then instead of translating your character the full 3.0 units in the downward direction, the downward component of your character shift is reduced (as some of the translation is in the horizontal component now). This is partial ASDI (PASDI). Reducing the strength of the downward component means with moves where you would get knocked down, you would instead receive normal knockback, but with other moves where you would not get knocked down, you still get the ASDI down 4 frame landing transition. As long as the magnitude of the vector (how far you tilt the stick) is > .7 you will activate ASDI... i.e. sqrt(.5^2 + .5^2) = .707 > .7 therefore with an X and Y tilt of .5 and .5 respectively you can still trigger ASDI down even though a tilt of .5 in a single direction would not normally be far enough to activate ASDI. What does this mean? On a platform you can use PASDI to option select between slideoff DI and ASDI down. To do this hold the C-stick at diagonally inward not outward.
Fun fact about editing this one: the tournament videos at the beginning were almost not in the video. They were in the original script, then taken out before editing, and after editing the rest of the video, we added them back in. I highly suggest going back and listening to the commentators again after finishing the video. Once you learn these mechanics, it's kind of hilarious.
The other thing that was hilarious to me was that no weak Sakurai angle moves were recommended at 15:51 for use against Ice Climbers besides neutral B, as in its best to just laser camp them to avoid wobbling. Great video, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say these videos are amazing and informative, and much needed in the pandemic when there is almost no Melee content.
AbatedToast77 those are moves that the ice climbers can use to do the sakurai angle, not moves that fox can use against them. Icies hit hard so the only move they can use that does less than 32KB is ice block.
AbatedToast77 I’d refer you to the comment above, but also add if you’ve seen the Hax Nintendude set from Pound you know you sure as heck don’t need to laser camp the ICs lol
Sakurai continues to spit on the players who take this level of time and dedication to study the game by not sponsoring Melee tournaments and removing all these subtle mechanics from the sequels.
@@nahor88 or he just wants to eliminate any mechanics that may seem overly complicated and may intimidate new players. And wants to support tournaments for his most recent game instead of one made 19 years ago
@@jackawaka Except that none of those mechanics are REQUIRED to play Melee... you can play Melee like the party game it's meant to be, or as a competitive game. That's what really makes it so great, which Sakurai completely missed. Maybe he should focus on creating decent online play instead of nerfing gameplay mechanics? How is it the Melee community has devised a tenable netplay system with little to no budget and a multi-million dollar company like Nintendo hasn't....
@@nahor88 It's completely understandable that a multi million dollar company don't spend time working on a game that now has sequels which have a much larger and less niche fanbase. Yes its an excellent game but they are a company, its not a case of whether they can its a case of would it be worth it to them.
@@jackawaka Except that those "fanbases" dissolve awfully quickly. A LOT of people have already quit playing Ultimate cuz the netplay sucks ass. Many of those players are switching to Melee, which as I stated, now has reliable netplay. It really wouldn't require many resources or much time at all to do an HD remake of Melee with netplay, if unpaid fans working on it during free time can do it. Anyone that's in game design or programming would tell you that.
This is like a more accessible version of kadano's mechanics videos for the next generation of smashers and I really appreciate it. It's going to help a lot of people. Also, air🅱orne
@@DeathMetal179 Unless I'm very wrong, C.Falcon does have some accessible 361 options at 0 like Bair and late Uair, alongside some other options like Ftilt and dash attack, so either it's a joke or it's implying you should instead rely on dair spam which sends down and some fast grabs in neutral to get out of asdi down range. I suspect it's the former. By the same token though Marth should have Fair and Bair among others available, so maybe there's just something I'm missing.
@@DonPiantissimo maybe coz 0 is less lenient than 5-10, although i don't see 0 being much worse than single-digit percent. factoring invincibility? nah
It's the same action but I think Hax distinguished a difference because of the different intent. A driveby nair is essentially a cross-up nair, intended to get behind the opponent. An overshoot nair is intended to catch people moving backwards It's just semantics. They are basically the same thing.
Actually, no. To "overshoot" an aerial is to account for an enemy's backwards movement aka chasing down a back dash or wavedash back. When he says drive-by he means cross up. By landing on the opposite side of captain falcon, not only does he make it more difficult to punish, but falcon also has to waste frames turning around.
This video doesn't have meme music or calling out commenters for no reason (Plus no insane explanations that lack self awareness) Honestly "Watch for rolling rocks in 0.5 A presses" is such a fonominal video. If anyone were to try to recreate something like that it would come off as fake, that video is so good BECAUSE its not self-aware of how rediculous the whole situation is! In other words it was a true "meme" in all sense of the word, a moment of time that just so happened to be uncovered on a viral scale! (inb4 this turns into a copypasta or some crap like that...)
Honestly this topic in particular has been one of the things off-putting me from entering the competitive melee scene as there was too much i didn't understand about it. On the surface when I tried to look up ways to beat asdi down or crouch cancel I would basically only get the answer, "just grab." Now that I understand this this much better I can easily utilize holding down in my game with more confidence and be less one-dimensional against opponents at relatively low percents. I really appreciate this presentation for being clear and having very useful examples
@@skiq2520 Well I was a bit misleading with my wording because I already thought that comment was long enough :p I have dabbled with the game and taken the time to learn movement and go to a couple of locals, but I have been pretty on and off and never stuck with it enough to even be a familiar face at those locals. Of course I don't expect to win and there are plenty of people outplaying me and I'm losing more much than I'm winning (counting in friendlies as well) which i don't have a problem with! The main thing that really has bummed me out a majority of the time is that a lot of my losses in bracket (which is maybe only like 4/5 of 10 but still) have been with getting cc- wobbled or cc-dsmash from peach or samus over and over again until the set is over. I ask them what I can possibly do about this tactic, since I clearly had zero counterplay and it was a no brainer for them to do when they see that it's going to work every time. Literally everyone said "you just gotta grab" or some variation and I was just frustrated by this because it really wasn't the answer I was looking for. As you can imagine by now I was very often using early aerial attacks and this was their answer but I didn't realize that was the issue for a long time and learning the other options of hitting late, crossing-up, tomahawk, fading back, etc were never discussed or even just something along the lines of not being so telegraphed with my jumping. I'm not trying to blame other players here but it just seems like there are many instances like this where players know proper mixups and they perform them as well but don't understand why they do them. So when I hear this answer of "just grab" it made me think "why is everyone jumping when the opponent is at low percent still?" Like I would only get one answer, that isnt wrong, but by only having one option im being told about I think you can see why stuff like this is discouraging. Melee has many things that aren't as intuitive as other fighters that something like an in-game tutorial will tell you. Like an example of grabbing or sweeping will break an opponent's armored move, is easy to understand and utilize immediately so it's easier to find answers. It is beautiful that there are so many options and answers all the time in melee for most scenarios but I feel like explanations of options and why they work are quite rare unfortunately. Videos like these give me a lot of hope as it makes the game a lot more accessible without taking away integrity from the game and really makes me want to give this game another shot with more things to try out.
@@wannabetree1912 yeah people are different in the ways they learn and express, in my experience locals are a mix of different types of people and you ultimately have to lay the puzzle down yourself, preferably by asking simple questions to yourself, if you lost to these players by getting ccd over and over then they probably have other mixups that they didnt have to use to beat you, so just break it down into steps of improvement and get specific with improvement, remove glaring weaknesses and work on tools and be aware of your own process
@@wannabetree1912 some people like talking about melee and some people dont, im personally known as one of the least "strategical" players while still being good in my city. Find likeminded people and have fun with it
Wizzy uses SO many techs that most people don't even know about. Like he's the only top player I know who regularly uses V-Canceling, a technique discovered in 2015 (it might have been later) and was quickly dismissed as "not being that useful" yet I remember at least 1 game where it saved his life and helped him win the set! Melee is "sick" indeed! :P
@Base Bass Forte has to do with a certain animation and pressing your L or R button for example with falcon wizzy and I've seen S2J do it, do a high up-b before they land on stage to get into that specific fall animation and right before you get hit you press one of those buttons with good di of course, it takes off I believe 5 or 10% of the hit?
This is one of my favourite things about Melee; since the game has a limited cast of characters and therefore matchups and the fact it has been played for over a decade means the game has become very theory and optimisation based to a degree. For example people realised it can be better for Fox players to take a Falco laser hit rather than shielding it to keep frame advantage. It’s super interesting, technical and in-depth and this video alone shows that.
yeah, its pretty simple in that example but i think its good to show off the idea your expressing. +3 on shield bare minimum vs potentially negative on hit bare minimum
Hax, you're a legend for figuring out all of this crazy stuff in this crazy game and sharing it with the community. Also, who the heck even created this insane game!?
Also, you can input tech on the last or second to last frame of hitlag, which imo makes it consistent enough to go for in matches. If you're sick you can do crazy shit, my favorite example is ASDI down teching Fox's upsmash on reaction
Watching this made me picture a timeline where Melee is played as a turn-based game via TAS. The game would be one stock, but every interaction would be a pause window for players to program TAS to play their "turn". The casting would be similar to how Hax is talking in this video.
What do you mean by SDI takes effect on the same frame that it is inputted? That's not possible unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "takes effect".
If an attack would normally send an opponent greater than 3 units upward, could the victim SDI down during hitlag and ASDI down to get close enough for an Amsah tech to work?
To clarify for those who run into this, the formula for knockback is more specifically 3+(%/3) rounded down. I was testing some things and when I tried the calculation I did (3+%)/3, which had me confused for a second
During that clip of falcon dash dancing while using asdi down on the fox nairs would you just dash dance while holding c stick down? If that's the case then grab seems like a perfect punish but extremely difficult to do unless you're using claw. Is there a secret to doing this grab more easily?
JFC dude... the game has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many sates, properties and frame checks I DREAD to think what coming up with those systems must have been like for the devs... with SOO many moving parts you'd think it would be prone to mechanical failure (and yes this is also a thing in programming), but somehow it stays whole
What are you having trouble with? The way to do it is by holding the control stick diagonally downwards and pressing a jump button a little before pressing one of the shield buttons.
Try rivals of aether to learn wavedashing. It allows for a horizontal input for wavedashing and lets you buffer the airdodge during jumpsquat. Basically it's less strict on the inputs. Once you have a feeling for how wavedashing works it becomes easier to learn melee's timing. It worked for me at least
I think people just typically refer to ASDI down and true CC as just CC for ease of communication. I’ll be surprised if any people who actually compete in Melee are unaware of what the difference between CC and ASDI is, but I guess this video is probably good for educating new players.
Oh my fucking god dude this is so good. Asdi is broken as fuuuck, it's so easy and so good. The only trick is having enough game sense to use it. Defensive tech like this always makes me scared, I feel like none of my combos are actually true. I guess they're not really with tas levels of anything....
wow ive been playing melee for a couple months now, ive heard pros say asdi down but never knew what it meant. cant wait for my b0xx, coming in about two weeks. subbed!
I'm wondering whose managerial direction was responsible for these extremely intricate design decisions. Are other fighting games this technical? There seems to be no end to the amount of depth to this game's mechanics. If the team responsible for melee were to release a book about their process, I'd read it in a heartbeat.
Since downward into the ground is forbidden for sdi, would it be safe to suppose this technique is possibly unintended? Like what if asdi was added later in development to help out the effect of sdi but they forgot to account for the possibility to land instantly with it?
If Falcon SDI'd down for one frame, and held the control stick down for the rest of his hitlag, would he ASDI to the ground? Edit: Could I place a small sandbag (or any other type of weight) on a B0XX to constantly hold C-stick down, in order to automatically ASDI down?
Yes, teach us everything. These videos are great! I am learning so much about the basic mechanics that I never knew. So useful. Can't wait to try and incorporate some of this.
This is amazing, I feel like Im watching Khan Academy but for Melee
*Juan
Off topic but ily zenith 😳
Khan is lit!
Ayyyye zenith
I like Hax's voice more than Khan's though
jesus melee is so good
How was a game so complex developed so quickly? HAL labs hires wizards
Over the last few years, I've always wondered if there is an easier way to hold down on the C stick before and acting out of dash dance. Like imagine if you could use a foot pedal to press down the C stick, I could see that being a huge advantage. What would be the limits of controller legality? I feel like unless you are using the Javi claw or boxx, you may be at a disadvantage since Javi claw frees your thumb.
I've found you can use the thumb joint to hold down the c stick. Then you can more quickly move the tip of your thumb to the button cluster, allowing quick action. I do have abnormally large hands though (to the point where the gamecube controller is a bit too small for me)
Hax's Fox is QPU aligned in this video
Anyone else creeped out by how often this dude refers to the defender / person getting hit as "the victim"? Because uhhhh what the fuck hax
Good shit as usual
It feels weird procrastinating studying for finals to study for melee
lol I started a 6 page paper, wrote the title, then immediately came here
I feel you man. I feel you.
I know this is kind of a joke, but it's not worth it man. Please study for your final
Mr. Slowpez I'm fully aware it's not worth it but I continue to push it off anyways
Skipping Electromagnetism II for this lmao
SDI down baby
Edit: * COUGH * ASDI down baby
@Saatvik Palli lasdi, klasdi, jklasdi,
get up attack
Some of the best ssbm content is right here. On this channel.
I wouldn't expect less from one of the best in the game
How has brilliant fusion been doing?
I miss her so much
Absolutely.
@@Ayyem93 I'm surprised just at how deep the knowledge goes. But I guess that's always the case. Every year, something blows my mind about this game.
Make sure to watch AsumSaus as well
t h e v i c t i m s
ʇ ɥ ǝ ʌ ᴉ ɔ ʇ ᴉ ɯ s
i mean, you can you look at a guy getting kicked in the face with a bionic leg and not call them a victim
11:24 "Fox ends up winning this situation because shine has invincibility"
story of my life
i agree fluttershy my little pony
"So I'll continue to use fox as an example."
Sadly you're on the ban list 😢
😭 true. No matter what i say they'll never bring me back. But at least we're all on the banlist currently.
I miss you so much ;(
Who are yoy
I still have hope of snows return
Also: If you use a shallower angle on the C-stick (i.e. a down diagonal) then instead of translating your character the full 3.0 units in the downward direction, the downward component of your character shift is reduced (as some of the translation is in the horizontal component now). This is partial ASDI (PASDI). Reducing the strength of the downward component means with moves where you would get knocked down, you would instead receive normal knockback, but with other moves where you would not get knocked down, you still get the ASDI down 4 frame landing transition. As long as the magnitude of the vector (how far you tilt the stick) is > .7 you will activate ASDI... i.e. sqrt(.5^2 + .5^2) = .707 > .7 therefore with an X and Y tilt of .5 and .5 respectively you can still trigger ASDI down even though a tilt of .5 in a single direction would not normally be far enough to activate ASDI. What does this mean? On a platform you can use PASDI to option select between slideoff DI and ASDI down. To do this hold the C-stick at diagonally inward not outward.
wow wtf melee is sick
i cant read
There's so much more Melee to play
It's amazing how complex Melee is
Ima go 3-1 odds for this being a trollpost, any takers?
Fun fact about editing this one: the tournament videos at the beginning were almost not in the video. They were in the original script, then taken out before editing, and after editing the rest of the video, we added them back in. I highly suggest going back and listening to the commentators again after finishing the video. Once you learn these mechanics, it's kind of hilarious.
The other thing that was hilarious to me was that no weak Sakurai angle moves were recommended at 15:51 for use against Ice Climbers besides neutral B, as in its best to just laser camp them to avoid wobbling. Great video, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say these videos are amazing and informative, and much needed in the pandemic when there is almost no Melee content.
AbatedToast77 those are moves that the ice climbers can use to do the sakurai angle, not moves that fox can use against them. Icies hit hard so the only move they can use that does less than 32KB is ice block.
AbatedToast77 I’d refer you to the comment above, but also add if you’ve seen the Hax Nintendude set from Pound you know you sure as heck don’t need to laser camp the ICs lol
7:03
i was genuinely so ready for him to say L+R+A+START for some reason
This is like watching 3Blue1Brown for Melee, I love it
Sakurai continues to spit on the players who take this level of time and dedication to study the game by not sponsoring Melee tournaments and removing all these subtle mechanics from the sequels.
@@nahor88 or he just wants to eliminate any mechanics that may seem overly complicated and may intimidate new players. And wants to support tournaments for his most recent game instead of one made 19 years ago
@@jackawaka Except that none of those mechanics are REQUIRED to play Melee... you can play Melee like the party game it's meant to be, or as a competitive game. That's what really makes it so great, which Sakurai completely missed. Maybe he should focus on creating decent online play instead of nerfing gameplay mechanics? How is it the Melee community has devised a tenable netplay system with little to no budget and a multi-million dollar company like Nintendo hasn't....
@@nahor88 It's completely understandable that a multi million dollar company don't spend time working on a game that now has sequels which have a much larger and less niche fanbase. Yes its an excellent game but they are a company, its not a case of whether they can its a case of would it be worth it to them.
@@jackawaka Except that those "fanbases" dissolve awfully quickly. A LOT of people have already quit playing Ultimate cuz the netplay sucks ass. Many of those players are switching to Melee, which as I stated, now has reliable netplay.
It really wouldn't require many resources or much time at all to do an HD remake of Melee with netplay, if unpaid fans working on it during free time can do it.
Anyone that's in game design or programming would tell you that.
This is like a more accessible version of kadano's mechanics videos for the next generation of smashers and I really appreciate it. It's going to help a lot of people.
Also, air🅱orne
15:51 He really included Falcon just to say "None, Falcon sucks." Lmaooooooooooooooo
There's none for Marth either, I guess he must suck too right?
@@DeathMetal179 (It was a joke)
@@DeathMetal179 Unless I'm very wrong, C.Falcon does have some accessible 361 options at 0 like Bair and late Uair, alongside some other options like Ftilt and dash attack, so either it's a joke or it's implying you should instead rely on dair spam which sends down and some fast grabs in neutral to get out of asdi down range. I suspect it's the former. By the same token though Marth should have Fair and Bair among others available, so maybe there's just something I'm missing.
@@DonPiantissimo maybe coz 0 is less lenient than 5-10, although i don't see 0 being much worse than single-digit percent.
factoring invincibility? nah
@@DonPiantissimo Falcon bair, even weak hit, isn't 361, and I don't think Falcon upair is, even late. I believe late Falcon uair is horizontal
I swear to god you could hold a whole PhD on SSBM mechanics.
These are the best melee deep dive videos on the internet, hands down. Like, it's not even close.
Is "driveby Nair" the same thing as an "overshoot Nair"?
Yes
It's the New York way to say it
Yeah, but more gangster
It's the same action but I think Hax distinguished a difference because of the different intent. A driveby nair is essentially a cross-up nair, intended to get behind the opponent. An overshoot nair is intended to catch people moving backwards
It's just semantics. They are basically the same thing.
Actually, no. To "overshoot" an aerial is to account for an enemy's backwards movement aka chasing down a back dash or wavedash back. When he says drive-by he means cross up. By landing on the opposite side of captain falcon, not only does he make it more difficult to punish, but falcon also has to waste frames turning around.
Im about to tape my cstick down lole
BRUH
You could hold the stick up when you plug it in, making it act like it's held down when you put it back to neutral.
@@ethanb12007 200 iq
Claw grip
@@ethanb12007 Biggest Brain
it's actually so cool how DEEP this game goes. Great video my dude.
Hax is now the Pannenkoek2012 of Melee.
This video doesn't have meme music or calling out commenters for no reason (Plus no insane explanations that lack self awareness)
Honestly "Watch for rolling rocks in 0.5 A presses" is such a fonominal video. If anyone were to try to recreate something like that it would come off as fake, that video is so good BECAUSE its not self-aware of how rediculous the whole situation is! In other words it was a true "meme" in all sense of the word, a moment of time that just so happened to be uncovered on a viral scale!
(inb4 this turns into a copypasta or some crap like that...)
Honestly this topic in particular has been one of the things off-putting me from entering the competitive melee scene as there was too much i didn't understand about it. On the surface when I tried to look up ways to beat asdi down or crouch cancel I would basically only get the answer, "just grab." Now that I understand this this much better I can easily utilize holding down in my game with more confidence and be less one-dimensional against opponents at relatively low percents. I really appreciate this presentation for being clear and having very useful examples
Why would you care about this stuff if u havent even started playing, there is aloooot of other stuff that is more fundamental
@@skiq2520 Well I was a bit misleading with my wording because I already thought that comment was long enough :p I have dabbled with the game and taken the time to learn movement and go to a couple of locals, but I have been pretty on and off and never stuck with it enough to even be a familiar face at those locals. Of course I don't expect to win and there are plenty of people outplaying me and I'm losing more much than I'm winning (counting in friendlies as well) which i don't have a problem with!
The main thing that really has bummed me out a majority of the time is that a lot of my losses in bracket (which is maybe only like 4/5 of 10 but still) have been with getting cc- wobbled or cc-dsmash from peach or samus over and over again until the set is over. I ask them what I can possibly do about this tactic, since I clearly had zero counterplay and it was a no brainer for them to do when they see that it's going to work every time. Literally everyone said "you just gotta grab" or some variation and I was just frustrated by this because it really wasn't the answer I was looking for. As you can imagine by now I was very often using early aerial attacks and this was their answer but I didn't realize that was the issue for a long time and learning the other options of hitting late, crossing-up, tomahawk, fading back, etc were never discussed or even just something along the lines of not being so telegraphed with my jumping. I'm not trying to blame other players here but it just seems like there are many instances like this where players know proper mixups and they perform them as well but don't understand why they do them. So when I hear this answer of "just grab" it made me think "why is everyone jumping when the opponent is at low percent still?" Like I would only get one answer, that isnt wrong, but by only having one option im being told about I think you can see why stuff like this is discouraging.
Melee has many things that aren't as intuitive as other fighters that something like an in-game tutorial will tell you. Like an example of grabbing or sweeping will break an opponent's armored move, is easy to understand and utilize immediately so it's easier to find answers. It is beautiful that there are so many options and answers all the time in melee for most scenarios but I feel like explanations of options and why they work are quite rare unfortunately. Videos like these give me a lot of hope as it makes the game a lot more accessible without taking away integrity from the game and really makes me want to give this game another shot with more things to try out.
@@wannabetree1912 yeah people are different in the ways they learn and express, in my experience locals are a mix of different types of people and you ultimately have to lay the puzzle down yourself, preferably by asking simple questions to yourself, if you lost to these players by getting ccd over and over then they probably have other mixups that they didnt have to use to beat you, so just break it down into steps of improvement and get specific with improvement, remove glaring weaknesses and work on tools and be aware of your own process
@@wannabetree1912 some people like talking about melee and some people dont, im personally known as one of the least "strategical" players while still being good in my city. Find likeminded people and have fun with it
Mango doesn’t know any of this stuff and he’s still a top player lol. So it’s not necessary to be good
"Melee is sick" phrase has a deeper meaning now
holy crap i feel like im learning melee for the first time again
i finally understand the terms i read on smashwiki so long ago
thanks man
Hax$ - "What's the most you ever lost on a coin toss?"
I don’t even play smash, but as a fighting game player, this stuff is amAZING to learn
Wavedash + Cstick ASDI Down = Buffered Tech during WD and 10 frames after
Start doing it people, the year is 2020.
this game really is bomkers. the level of defensive and offensive interaction melee has is amazing
*bomkers
I think wizzy uses cc more than any other player. he mixes up neutral sometimes by just staying in crouch
Wizzy uses SO many techs that most people don't even know about. Like he's the only top player I know who regularly uses V-Canceling, a technique discovered in 2015 (it might have been later) and was quickly dismissed as "not being that useful" yet I remember at least 1 game where it saved his life and helped him win the set!
Melee is "sick" indeed! :P
Wizzy is ahead of his time
@Base Bass Forte has to do with a certain animation and pressing your L or R button for example with falcon wizzy and I've seen S2J do it, do a high up-b before they land on stage to get into that specific fall animation and right before you get hit you press one of those buttons with good di of course, it takes off I believe 5 or 10% of the hit?
You're telling me that Falco shoots "Sakurai lasers" most of the time?
Hax is going to be on a much different level than controller players at some point.
This is one of my favourite things about Melee; since the game has a limited cast of characters and therefore matchups and the fact it has been played for over a decade means the game has become very theory and optimisation based to a degree. For example people realised it can be better for Fox players to take a Falco laser hit rather than shielding it to keep frame advantage. It’s super interesting, technical and in-depth and this video alone shows that.
yeah, its pretty simple in that example but i think its good to show off the idea your expressing. +3 on shield bare minimum vs potentially negative on hit bare minimum
Yall are so lucky to have videos like this. When I was playing melee back in the day the best videos on the web where DBR combo video's.
I didn't know literally 99% of what he was talking about in this video and yet I was mesmerized and entertained. You have gained a subscriber.
These videos are so fucking good Hax. Super excited to see what's next.
Leffen when he sees 15:50 : Marth 70 - 30 Fox
Hax, you're a legend for figuring out all of this crazy stuff in this crazy game and sharing it with the community.
Also, who the heck even created this insane game!?
What did he figure out in this video?
Jesus Christ it’s Air Borne
i watched this vid while i was high and i almost had a panic attack it was too much
Also, you can input tech on the last or second to last frame of hitlag, which imo makes it consistent enough to go for in matches. If you're sick you can do crazy shit, my favorite example is ASDI down teching Fox's upsmash on reaction
Joe Schmoe if you tech in place is it possible to whiff punish the upsmash?
@@hgt_sr7034 yeah you can fuckin grab it if you time it properly, it's sick
Hax is a literal messiah
Ohhh, so is this why Zain uses so much dairs even at low percent?
yes
Thank you! Not enough people are uploading melee breakdown videos now a days
I was expecting the clip of wizzy triple kneeing absent page on yoshi's from a slide off at the end
Short answer: ASDI Down.
idk what he just said, but damn hes right...
Watching this made me picture a timeline where Melee is played as a turn-based game via TAS. The game would be one stock, but every interaction would be a pause window for players to program TAS to play their "turn". The casting would be similar to how Hax is talking in this video.
Very engaging & informative. I love the tranquil feel of this video!
This man carry Melee content on his back
Mechanics of melee needs to be a college course
Holy shit this is such a well made vid
What do you mean by SDI takes effect on the same frame that it is inputted? That's not possible unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "takes effect".
If an attack would normally send an opponent greater than 3 units upward, could the victim SDI down during hitlag and ASDI down to get close enough for an Amsah tech to work?
To clarify for those who run into this, the formula for knockback is more specifically 3+(%/3) rounded down. I was testing some things and when I tried the calculation I did (3+%)/3, which had me confused for a second
During that clip of falcon dash dancing while using asdi down on the fox nairs would you just dash dance while holding c stick down? If that's the case then grab seems like a perfect punish but extremely difficult to do unless you're using claw. Is there a secret to doing this grab more easily?
JFC dude... the game has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many sates, properties and frame checks I DREAD to think what coming up with those systems must have been like for the devs... with SOO many moving parts you'd think it would be prone to mechanical failure (and yes this is also a thing in programming), but somehow it stays whole
why am I even watching this stuff? I spent an evening trying to learn how to wavedash and failed.
What are you having trouble with? The way to do it is by holding the control stick diagonally downwards and pressing a jump button a little before pressing one of the shield buttons.
Try rivals of aether to learn wavedashing. It allows for a horizontal input for wavedashing and lets you buffer the airdodge during jumpsquat. Basically it's less strict on the inputs. Once you have a feeling for how wavedashing works it becomes easier to learn melee's timing. It worked for me at least
@@spongbobsquarepants3922 hmm, I wasn't holding the stick *before* the jump. That's probably it then, thanks!
@@sk31k it's not necessary, but it can help you do it if you are otherwise unable to.
Dude it’s all muscle memory you’ll get it soon!! Practice makes perfect, can’t stress that enough!! Good luck man!
Glad to see Hax is handling quarantine well.
marth: none
heck yeah
The tip of his up B sakurai angles, making him harder to edgeguard at low %. But since that is not usable in neutral I guess he did not mention it.
@@TheDasErdinger i guess that might be useful, thanks dude
Drift back tippers are still hard to punish if you just take one at low percents, not to mention Marths grab hitbox and the mileage off landing one
is this gonna be on the test
This is perfect for both pros and beginners who know about or don't know about SDI. Thank you Hax, just pick up your twitter game dog.
In the dark universe of 20xx where WW3 started, i shutter to imagin where Aziz CIA/CEO tier galaxy brain end up if meee never existed.
I think people just typically refer to ASDI down and true CC as just CC for ease of communication. I’ll be surprised if any people who actually compete in Melee are unaware of what the difference between CC and ASDI is, but I guess this video is probably good for educating new players.
Most people know ASDI down isn’t CC, but it’s a mouthful to say. People say CC to refer to it, and “True CC” to refer to the less common option.
All this "victim" and "truth" talk got me thinking about how you need to be unbanned..... you're a victim to a corrupt system and we miss u
Oh my fucking god dude this is so good. Asdi is broken as fuuuck, it's so easy and so good. The only trick is having enough game sense to use it. Defensive tech like this always makes me scared, I feel like none of my combos are actually true. I guess they're not really with tas levels of anything....
I don't know too much about Melee, I just watched this to listen to the voice of Hax Fucking Money
wow ive been playing melee for a couple months now, ive heard pros say asdi down but never knew what it meant. cant wait for my b0xx, coming in about two weeks. subbed!
This is some useful shit, keep this up man! I never fully understood these things you're covering but now I do (a bit).
How does this explain platform slide off DI? In most cases, the slide off happens even though victims have enough hitstun to be knocked down
Can you use ASDI and then input SDI after the ASDI input to overall decrease hit stun/knockback?
Soooo Fox should almost always approach with shine or grab at the beginning of the opponents new stocks.
tl:dr hold down on c stick
Is this not known by pro players?? I feel like armada has talked about this as well, just assumed it was called crouch cancelling out of laziness
I'm wondering whose managerial direction was responsible for these extremely intricate design decisions. Are other fighting games this technical? There seems to be no end to the amount of depth to this game's mechanics. If the team responsible for melee were to release a book about their process, I'd read it in a heartbeat.
Since downward into the ground is forbidden for sdi, would it be safe to suppose this technique is possibly unintended? Like what if asdi was added later in development to help out the effect of sdi but they forgot to account for the possibility to land instantly with it?
As a Falco player I have been abusing this by jumping into dair in the ditto to become grounded at low percents.
Do someone know if its possible to SDI up to the air and then ASDI down to the ground with the C-Stick? ‘o’
So wait can you just keep teching forever? Can you just tech a Marth fsmash at 999% through ASDI down because it puts you in tumble?
I dont think so because in the first frame of hitstun you would go too far off the ground
If Falcon SDI'd down for one frame, and held the control stick down for the rest of his hitlag, would he ASDI to the ground?
Edit: Could I place a small sandbag (or any other type of weight) on a B0XX to constantly hold C-stick down, in order to automatically ASDI down?
Good for you dude, classy apology. Takes a man to admit he was wrong (not saying you were).
How about that stealing people's money from summit by promising something you never had intention to deliver on?
This is the single most prolonged way you've ever said how fox is better than falcon
Amazing video very easy to understand yet very technical
So what’s an easy name we could call this?
‘Amsa cancelling’? ‘Hax cancelling’?
wtf is this??? Playing old broken game for competitive
Yes, teach us everything. These videos are great! I am learning so much about the basic mechanics that I never knew. So useful. Can't wait to try and incorporate some of this.
the only thing i crouch cancel is peach down smash
Dude not only put falcon on the top of the list, he also put absolutely nothing in the moves list. What a slap in the face lmao
And tuned I shall, straight to the point with no fluff, now we can get down to bizness
This video reminds me of how i was finding way to send people into insta kill into psasbr
isn't pikachu also 2 frames landing lag?
Boring!
Should have a subgoal or patreon to release shit like this. Thank you lol.
i will never disrespect sakurai again, he's a high level engineer man.
hax
Great video. It would be cool to see a collaboration with M2K
does anyone know if this also happens in project m/+?