Thank You so much Danny for taken on 1 of my favorite speakers , espically at price point , It's a true honor to have you upgrade for me , so excited to hear them and Compare for future video b4/after 😃 (I have 2 sets lol)
I purchased the LSiM 707 towers when they were being sold at cost a few years ago. I can't imagine getting more for the approximately $1200 I paid. Have them hooked up to a mint Adcom GFA 555 and they sound insanely good.
Great Job Danny for showing and educating us on the differences between quality and inferior parts example Air Core and Iron Coe Inductors using any parts that have iron in the signal path that degrades the signal path based on stored energy based and proven analytical Data.
Thanks for showing us the inside design and your thoughts on this! Cool the way you explained all of it and giving credit where credit is due without over selling what you do. Excellent! Not AC current running thru the iron core but DC.
I just saw that Tee-Jay posted about your Polk 703 crossover upgrade video. I subscribed, it’s a cool channel. TeeJay has serious audio passion, he’s the type of audiophile when he loves something he wants to love it even more lol
I find modding speakers very interesting. You'd probably beat me up on my pair of lowly Yamaha NS-6490s. I found the midrange way too forward and the crossovers pretty bad. I swapped the tweeter out with a Tympani soft dome, installed Infinity RS 2-way crossovers, and converted it to dual front bass reflex ports. I also installed acoustic batting inside. All this really woke them up. I left the midrange disconnected, there isn't really any need for it other than to seal the hole for them. They now sound like much bigger speakers than they are. Very much enjoy your videos!
I own more than ten pairs of speakers - Bose 901 (S6), Kef LS50 meta, Kef R3, Bower and wilkins 603s, and many more. The polk LSiM 703s are the best. They are HEAVY and sound fabulous. In my opinion, there is not better value for money than these polks.
I had these and gave them away. They were nice, but I much preferred my GR Research and Philharmonic audio products over them. They also need a lot of power to open up IMO (from memory).
@@CujobobDanny's upgraded crossover would have helped your Polks open up quite a bit, I imagine. But plenty of clean power is always a good thing too.
Got the 702fx on clearance, got 2 Pairs. Same drivers, sound amazing as a stereo pair! Hearing the 702's, I know the 703's are very special. Scott Orth is the Engineer.
I bought a pair of LSi9's back about 2006. The precursor to this model I believe. They made me VERY happy (replacing an old pair of Snell K's ) for about 14 years until a friend gifted me his entire Hi-Fi kit, including a pair of circa 1981 B&W DM7 MkII's. The polks are narrow (left to right) but deep, and VERY heavy. Built a pair of stands for them, filled with #9 birdshot. Knowing the DM's are long in the tooth at 42 years old, the LSi9's are always ready and the pair that never leave me. They ARE power hungry and really need current to sing. But when they do, oh how sweet they are.
I have had the LSi9's in here twice. The woofers had some bad break up at 600Hz and 1,000Hz that I couldn't fix. So there was nothing that I could do with them.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks for that info. Something for me to consider if I thought about future upgrades. But truth be told, I haven't the test equipment or spectrum analyzers to depict those weaknesses. I may have or will hear it at some point, yet would have been unable to reconcile it in my mind without your tip, so THANK YOU! Like anything else...gotta know the limits. Love your videos!
I'd love to see a breakdown of some of the old Dynaco tube amps with the level of detail that you put into the speaker reviews / upgrades. There were a ton sold back in the day and there are companies that make after-market upgrades for them. Maybe you could bring in a tube amp expert as a guest lecturer(?)...
I have the floor tower model, i sit about 13ft away from the speakers. Did an experiment by placing a horn on the tweeters and the vocal clarity improved dramatically. Seems these speakers are better sounding at closer listening distance from speakers. Would love to upgrade the crossovers!
@@cup_and_cone You have no idea what you're talking about. Everything from the Signature Serise and up is made very well and offers both great build quality and for technical competency for the money. The reserve and legend are both built very well.
A VERY cool video- make me want to hunt down a pair of these on the used market! Plus, a really succinct explanation of what sonic benefits a parts upgrade can bring. Two little details- There's a word for "degradingness"; it's "degradation". Also, there are "kudus" and there are "kudos". "Kudos" means, "Congrats on a job well done." "Kudus" are African antelopes.
This explains to me why I never found active studio monitors to sound very good. They have the amp - but they still have all these same issues before it sounds good - and it's just not a remedy.
I had both the 707's and the 703's; I ended up giving them to my daughter about 6 years ago. They are beautiful speakers but, I felt they were lifeless, and now i know why! I tried numerous amps, dacs, wires and I could not get any life into them. To me the sound of these was one dimensional and others obviously agreed. When a speaker sounds great everyone talks about it, and when it doesn't very few people talk about it: as evidence search for reviews and awards for this series of speakers. I wished I had known about your channel back then I probably would have looked into the crossover parts. I have learned a lesson about buying speakers that are new to the market; I now look for reviews and blogs from many sources when considering speaker purchases. I have learned many things from you Danny! Now I build my own speakers; there is no sense buying something that you have to upgrade out of the box.
I grabbed a pair of these during the great blowout period before the Polk L line replaced the LSiM line; they pull monitor duty for me on my PC, and they are permanent fixtures until I find something better. They are paired with an RSL Speedwoofer 10S and leave me wanting for nothing. Fantastic speakers, and at the discount prices they were a ridiculous value.
I'm glad ya liked these, I like them too! I'm really glad you mentioned how much space all those new components will consume which will inadvertently change the freq response. These already have good binding posts, but I love how you still push these tube connectors.... Because ya can't sell that crack if ya can't get anyone addicted, right!?😁Cheers 🍻
The slight change in air space of moving the crossover externally won't change the frequency response. I will always recommend whatever sounds the best. If those tube connectors didn't clearly sound better than binding post, then I wouldn't be using them.
@@dannyrichie9743: Yeah man, I never question your integrity, and I agree with you a whole lot more than I disagree! But I don't agree with your tube connectors and I was only poking at them for fun. You can't prove those tube connectors make any difference at all, but you absolutely can show and tell the difference by stuffing the box full of all those new components. If you remove available air space within a box, it will matter of fact change the box acoustically. You know this, I know this, we know all this, but I was only trying to commend you for mentioning it to those that may not know. It's not a common thought especially to someone with little experience. That's all I was sayin, really, aside from my crack joke regarding your tube connectors which still makes me chuckle 😁..... Cheers 🍻
@@Finite-Tuning We have proved the audible differences of the tube connectors 100's of times. We even keep a pair of X-LS Encores around here that have both tube connectors and binding posts in parallel. It takes seconds to swap them back and forth. The difference is obvious. As for the air space that the original crossovers took up, it doesn't amount to much. A little handful of insulation will make as much or more difference in tuning. Now trying to stick all of those new parts in there would take up some notable air space. I think it is wise to externally mount it all.
@@dannyrichie9743: Sorry Dan, I guess I simply missed your "𝐓𝐮𝐛𝐞 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐬 𝐀𝐫𝐞 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐥𝐲 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐇𝐞𝐫𝐞'𝐬 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐫𝐨𝐨𝐟" video/document/study/test! Please post the link(s) here to the source of your proof so we can always refer to it from here on. I hate to be wrong the same as anybody, but I really 𝐥𝐨𝐯𝐞 to be proven wrong, with actual proof! But anybody with some speaker box simulator program can '𝐬𝐞𝐞' the difference .2 sq ft makes and those new inductors in your kit will suck up some room in the box. Like you said! But don't try to tell me it won't make a difference consuming that space and then try to sell me "Tube Connectors" that nothing and no one has proven to date!!!! I am not trying to argue with you, but my god man, you make it feel like pulling teeth sometimes when all I'm tryin to do is pat ya on the back, or nit pick a thing, or offer an opinion otherwise. Dude, ya gotta know me by now, I'm all about that proof and them numbers.
First time I see you use Solen caps and air inductors, I use them in a speaker I build sometime ago using Vifa 8 inch poly woofer and D25Ag35 Vifa tweeter, it sounded great, almost same components use on Vandersteen 2Ce
Really great video Danny. I learned some new things, and it is great to see some well designed speakers out there at reasonable prices. Your crossover built into speaker stands is a great idea.
Great video! I'd like to see someone build a one-off speaker that uses OCC copper exclusively. Voice coils, crossover parts, internal wire, etc. All of my signal wire (interconnects and speaker wire) is OCC and I've never felt a need to upgrade any of it. B&W once made a speaker that used silver in every component (not sure the voice coils were silver, however). This (OCC) might be an enlightening exercise.
I build my nx otica pair with all kimber 8tc occ copper on the entire crossover and to the mids and tweeter from the crossover. I used Danny sold core 99.99% in Teflon copper for the woofers and damn does it sound good! I even put a rope thru all the kimber to open up the cable so they cross more at a 90 to improve the brading cancelation and lower the capacitance of the cable (this is easy to measure and works.) Ton of extra work but I would do it all again, oh and I used all wbt silver solder!
Good review. Love the passion when you find a gem. Happy Holidays to you and your crew. Also. just a simple note and kudos. I have now A/B a set of you speaker wire which I got from you, last year. Around 500 so the good ones. real good. To a set of 2k brand I will not name. It beat em,
The Polk LSiM midwoofer has a dual gap motor design with a captive shorting ring between the upper and lower gaps. However, the central pole is solid with no machined groove or groove formed by multiple inserted/bonded elements, etc.; and without this groove on the central pole matching the groove formed by the top and bottom plate, it is not an XBL^2 design. The XBL^2 patent specifically covers a design where there is a groove or notch in both the outside surface of the gap and the inside surface of the gap, and this produces the deepest B notch between the upper and lower gaps, so it is a little more efficient in producing a flatter BL curve from a shorter gap height, but if you need more Xmax and can tolerate a longer coil (more Mms) between the upper and lower gaps, Polk's approach is totally legitimate and I have actually seen this used in some other speakers that do not license the XBL^2 patent.
Danny do you know Dan Wiggins? He was the chief designer for Stark Sound and Sonos. I met Dan in 2018 at Starke Sound (they manufacture their drivers and cabinets in China) showroom in Gardena California. At that time Dan lived in Ventura county California.
Now this is interesting. I owned the 703's and 706 and never should have sold them. My only issues with them were I thought they tried too hard to put out deep bass in my un-treated room with un-treated ears. And I could't find another pair of 703's, or 702's, at a decent price for surrounds so I sold the three I had. I also have three MB Quart Vera centers for the front three, which are phenominal! so I let the Polks go. The interesting part is I've also owned the Polk LSi9's which I thought were at least as good as the 703's. Should have kept those as well. But Danny is praising the 703's yet wouldn't even touch the LSi9's! That's what I love about all of this. We all have our own opinion's of what sounds good and what doesn't. Regardless of how they measure. But I'm glad Danny likes the 703's, and L600's. Polk can do great things...if they want to. 🙂
Maybe so but I enjoyed listening to the LSi9's just as much. And in my room, the bass was just as deep but not as overwhelming as the 703's were. The 703's did have a smoother mid-range, I'll admitt to that. But even the guy I bought the LSi9's from didn't think the new LSiM's he replaced them with were that much of an upgrade. The LSi9's were the jewel of the previous series, along with the LSi25's, and their value has held steady at about $450-$500/pr. But as I said, I still wish I had kept them both. Even if I'm not sure what I would have done with them since I really like my MB Quarts, even though Danny probably wouldn't with their metal tweeters! And as always, this is just my own opinion. Cheers! 😊@@ufarkingicehole
@genecase9464 a lot of people love lsi9s. They offered really awesome price to performance. I have heard the lsi9 and I currently own the lsim 705s. Like both. Love the lsim 705s. Can't speak for the 703s though.
Scott Orth is the Engineer. I hope Polk is treating him well. I have 4xLSiM 703, 2xLSiM707, 1xLSiM 706c and 4xLSiM702f/x. Man these could be expensive XO upgrades...
With all of the open baffle speakers on the market most utilize 12 - 15-inch woofers/midrange. Could you do a video comparing an open baffle using these large drivers, to the line array approach using smaller sd drivers? Pros and Cons, etc. Thanks.
It really is a case of horse for courses. And two completely different design philosophies based on physical characteristics. Here is some of the logic / thinking behind the options... Displacement is displacement. It doesn't matter hugely what the configuration is, as long as you have the same Sd. What has a much larger impact are things like cancellation, motor size, and cone distortion / acceleration. I use 18" open baffle woofers, but due to a lack of a box and subsequent cancellation of the sound waves, it produces bass volumes more like that of a much smaller driver maybe a 6" or 8" in a box, but the big difference is sound quality. While that 6" or 8" might have 1/2" excursion, my 18" barely moves. Maybe somewhere in the vicinity of an 1/32" - 1/16" or 1mm - 1.5mm (if that). This reduces cone flex, so you don't get the same kind of levels of distortion you would moving a smaller driver 1/2". Typically one of the big drawbacks on bigger drivers is the amount of moving mass. The bigger the cone, typically the more it will weigh. Using the same brakes try pull up a light car, versus pulling up a truck. Weight matters. So if a big driver is moving a lot, it might not have good control. This is where smaller drivers come into their own. One of the other advantages / disadvantages to smaller drivers are that you are going to have more motors to drive those cones. But one of the biggest compromises people make when it comes to speakers are cosmetic appearance. On the down side of the box is you are constantly fighting the air inside box, and it is for this reason boxed bass will never sound as good as open baffle. These are just some of the considerations.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineeringHi! I am also using 18" OB drivers. There is all the frequencies and bass that is needed but there is no kick or chest pounding bass even at higher volumes (all confirmed with calibrated measuring microphone.) I think it is because it is OB but I am also thinking of how much QTS has a impact on that. 🤔 Mine drivers is maybe or probably not the best for OB usage with QTS at 0.37. What is your thoughs and what is your QTS that goes with that experience?? I Google this definition and I second that I have all the details in the world and can hear clearly everything without any smearing: "So low values of Qts give a tight and punchy sound but with little weight or low bass and high Qts values give a slow and heavy sound that will give you lots of low frequency output."
@@AmazonasBiotop mine has a QTS of 0.25, so it is even stiffer. Compliance has a lot to do with it. OB woofers typically have a high QTS of around 0.7 although... The lower the QTS, the more control it has over the cone. From personal experience I think it has more to do with it coupling with the room better than a boxed speaker. I like to think of it of pressurising the room versus moving the air around. The last thing you want is your pictures banging on the walls, or rattles, while trying to listen to music.
Halo , sir i have small can i ask , i have BP electrolytic cap value 10uf 100v and NP electrolytic cap value 8.2uf 100v , my question is if i want to replace new caps from electrolytic to poly caps does need to follow back the value caps and Bipolar n NonPolar also can be replace to poly caps ? kindly advise sir ! tq tq
Question for Danny. You said in the review that you duplicated the Polk crossover with the same value parts of higher quality. Shouldn’t the DCR of the air-core coils match the DCR of the iron-core coils? If it’s different, won’t that alter driver roll-off, etc.?
The DCR only affects the response in the bottom end. In this case it went from a very small gauge iron core to a much larger gauge air core. So the DCR did not change very much.
If there is concern about matching DCR, ESR, or even inductance of wire-wound resistor, one must know the specified value when the part is new. A part that is several years old could be out of spec. Certainly don't want to match a new component to an out of spec value. Of more significance is the original tolerance specification. Inexpensive parts have typically wide tolerances. More likely original tolerance variation of inexpensive parts will have more impact than worrying about DCR, ESR, etc. of new higher quality parts with same L, C, and R values.
Also, one must understand that DCR of an inductor is measured at 0 Hz. ESR value for a capacitor is measured at 100 KHz. DCR and ESR are only useful to identify components NOT to use. Those values actually reveal very little about performance in an audio crossover.
if Danny was 'serious' he would have shown test results with his Probably Excellent crossovers... even to chain the parts on the bench and run wires thru the port would have been easy. Why not and where are your graphs ?
In physics of room acoustics, the 𝙘𝙤𝙢𝙥𝙤𝙣𝙚𝙣𝙩 most vital for understanding the elements involved is 𝙬𝙖𝙫𝙚𝙡𝙚𝙣𝙜𝙩𝙝 𝙨𝙞𝙯𝙚. Similarly, in crossovers and signal path integrity, perhaps the relevant items to envision are the 𝙨𝙞𝙜𝙣𝙖𝙡 𝙫𝙤𝙡𝙩𝙖𝙜𝙚 in the wire, and the magnitude of the 𝙨𝙪𝙧𝙧𝙤𝙪𝙣𝙙𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙛𝙞𝙚𝙡𝙙𝙨. Being mindful of that would serve one well in understanding relative significance, ie., low corruption signal transfer, etc. Also ... I'd suspect Polk's low chuff loading ports have always been high on function. That port flare establishs minimum wall proximity while retaining maximum flow (if smashed up against the boundary). Killer video Appreciate the content
How about a before and after on the waterfalls when the only cahgne is the change in parts quality0-0 no cahanges in values ? Think you can see a cleaner decay?
What does this mean? A waterfall of the acoustic output of a speaker surely includes the behavior of the parts unless you measure the drivers without the crossover installed. Is that what you do? Most people just measure the decay of the speaker as a whole, which surely includes teh parts.
@@robertgreene2684 It won't show stored energy of the parts. Take the smearing caused by an iron core in an inductor. The effect is not linear. It changes with power levels. Also, while we can measure ESR or dissipation rate in capacitors it will not show up in a spectral decay as it is completely covered over by the much longer decay rate of the drivers.
@@roybatty- You mean post a compressed TH-cam file for people to listen to on their laptops? Yeah, that will really show off the differences. I talk about sound clips here: th-cam.com/video/uYQU25hKRoA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1IvVHENFu02BDLAE
@@roybatty- The proof is in the pudding. An upgrade has just been sold to a TH-cam reviewer that has two pairs. He will have an upgraded pair and a stock pair for comparison. Let's see what he thinks.
@@dannyrichie9743 There are already plenty of forum posts talking about your upgrades. Some people love it, others hate it. It's subjective and everyone's opinion is 100% valid.
people that say you do bash at production speakers dont understand anything about it.. production speakes of 1k need to cost max 3 400 . they just choosing parts to be as cheap as possible but sound just good enough for its price. for example, good matching woofer tweeter. so its a minimum crossover or cheap shitty speakers bit more corrected so sound a bit better. you dont know untill you design, build or fix speakers
If I had a really old pair of speakers that have beat surrounds or a blown tweeter or two I might consider trying a complete mod if they sounded good at one time. He'd argue that point, but I've bought several pairs of speakers over the years that still are alive and well, that I wouldn't consider pulling apart since I auditioned them, and like how they sound even with inferior parts. This fella is basically saying every speaker manufacturer cheats you or can't design flat speakers. Who the heck buys a speaker because it measures flat? I sure don't. That's a studio monitor. Folks buy those to mix audio etc. Speakers have a proprietary signature that manufacturers strive for to differentiate themselves in a crowded marketplace. They hooked a meter up, trust me. They know how their speakers measure. Are there good and bad speakers? You bet. Audition before you buy. If you need an extra project give this guy a holler, or better yet, do the homework and get the best prices you can get for premium parts.
One of my B&W CDM1 recently died, so I'm looking to upgrade. I've got close to €3000 to spend, definitely open to used. Room isn't great, but acoustically treated. I use a Gamut D200. Anyone with suggestions?
Hi Danny, can I just take you up on a key point you make in this video and other videos. You say that frequency response doesn’t show how a speaker sounds, only how accurate it is. I respectfully disagree with this as it has been proven by the likes of Floyd Toole in controlled blind testing that frequency response (including the off-axis contributions) is one of the biggest factors in perceived sound quality. Perhaps it’s just a turn of phrase on your part, but I think it might be misleading to some of your viewers.
Accuracy does figure into how a speaker sounds. However, a speaker can have a flat response and still sound dreadful, lifeless, have a flat two dimensional sound stage, and no resolution. There are many other factors that determine how a speaker sounds.
This is pretty weird. Not that the speaker is good . But the explanation of stored energy. The truth is that those ridges on the waterfall plots are almost always associated to bumps in frequency response. Speaker drivers are minimum phase devices. If they resonate one sees it in the frequency response. Cf Toole's video.
This is surely true in the sense of a one point measurement. But that is the whole pont of spatially averaged measurements-- things like diffraction effects are eliminated by the averaging. But in actual practice, the ridges one sees in your plots are almost always attached to resonances. Look at the one for this Polk speaker. There is a ridge around 6 kHz which is attached to a bump. And the ridge around 700 Hz is also attached to a bump.
@@robertgreene2684 The spectral decay can show the effect of diffraction, and surface reflections. They can also be identified by knowing how to read the spectral decay. Internal cabinet reflections also show up on a spectral decay, and those are not seen in the frequency response measurement.
I figured it would be really narrow and beaming as well but it's really not bad. I tried Polk's R200 a couple years ago when they were under $600. Not overly extended or sparkly but I enjoyed the tweeter..enough so that I purchased the R700. Not perfect by no means but plays nice for budget types. I'd like to see some improvements for the R700. A lot of parts in the 2 crossover boards though. I feel like I hear some resonance or ringing every once in awhile as well.
@@ChiefExecutiveOrbiter yeah not as wide as a horn and I guess it would depend on the ribbon. I've had AMT's that were worse..same with different domes. They aren't as extended, elevated, or detailed as most horns or ribbons either. Those tweeters don't work for me though..I'm overly sensitive which is why I don't have much issue with the Ring tweeters. The Polk's I have are almost 9ft apart and I sit that far away. They disappear pretty easily and on different axis points
I got two pair of 707s new when they were on sale for 1000 a pair. I still use them as my center rears and side rears. I had a third pair but sold them as I upgraded to a USA made speaker tower in my fronts. Same cherry finish as these. I also had the 703s for a couple months was going to use hem as atmos but decided they were too heavy.
@danny I’m curious as to what the measurement unit for Smear is? Could you not show us how this is reduced with your crossover upgrade like you show show the frequency response is? Would the waterfall plot show it as presumably Smear relates to stored energy? If we can hear it, it can be measured, no?
Smearing is measured in Spearkudotals. You just need a good smearkudotal meter. Seriously though. Smearing from an iron core is not linear. It changes with power levels. Also, while ESR or dissipation can be measured in capacitors, it is not going to show up in a speaker measurement.
All MidFi amplifiers/AVR’s (A/V receivers) manufacturers use cheap cheesy steel in their speaker binding posts in their Amplifier sections! With that said, even if you have great copper tube connectors on the backs of the loudspeakers, you’re not gonna change the fact that the output of the binding post all these crappy MidFi Amplifier products are not going to smear the signal right out of the gate! The only way to rectify this issue is to install copper binding posts on the amplifiers, also, if the input sections on these amplifiers use cheesy Steele, Female RCA or XLR or connectors. you’re gonna have the same issue. Plugging in a good quality CD player or streamer, even those are gonna have the same cheesy steel in their RCA connectors as well. No one’s talking about this. there needs an upgrade path and replace them. the input sections on these products have the female RCA connector made from plastic with metal steel leads (not Cooper) they are directly soldered onto the PCB board to the wire traces. Those are not easy to replace if you have a high end, CD player/Strummer or high and Preamp or high end amplifier. They drill holes into the back of their steel cases and use they steel brass coated, possibly gold plated female RCA connectors that have threads on the inside that are screwed down with nuts onto, the steel chassis. They’re all soldered on the back of the connectors to the PCB boards!
@dannyrichie9743 - I am interested in doing the upgrade to my 707s, but I noticed that one binding post connection goes to the midrange and tweeter while the other binding post goes to the mid-bass and the 2 other 6x9 woofers. Are you sure the kit for the 703 will work on my lsim707s? Also, why do you recommend a separate amp for the woofers and midbass driver? Cannot I simply use my Parasound A21 to drive everything? Thx
I hear the flawed thinking concerning inaccuracies in a speaker's design on audio forums a lot; "that's how the designer wanted to voice the speaker". NO! Inaccuracies are ALWAYS bad design.
How could having a flat response be boring. How else would you ever faithfully reproduce the original recording If your speakers are altering the final signal!! Now if you just want a certain sound to your music then of course your response will not be flat.
I had the LSim towers and the center. My experience with them can be described in one word. BORING! They may be flat but were totally uninvolving to me. I tried to throw more power at them. 1st the Denon receiver then separate amps all the way up to a big Parasound 5 channel. Still couldnt connect with them. Sold them for what i paid and the wife wasnt too happy. ( She loved the way they looked.)
Polk does an AMAZING job of making great sounding speakers at an affordable price.
They really do. Glad they saw the market and responded VERY fast.
Thank You so much Danny for taken on 1 of my favorite speakers , espically at price point , It's a true honor to have you upgrade for me , so excited to hear them and Compare for future video b4/after 😃 (I have 2 sets lol)
Oh will you post that in your own channel? I'm really curious about client reviews of the upgrades :-)
@@caidNL sure will !!
Agreed. An external crossover is the way to go in this instance.
I've been a big fan of Polk since the 90's, and they just never seem to disappoint when it comes to a "mainstream" speaker company.
I purchased the LSiM 707 towers when they were being sold at cost a few years ago. I can't imagine getting more for the approximately $1200 I paid. Have them hooked up to a mint Adcom GFA 555 and they sound insanely good.
Nice work Polk! Thanks for the video Danny.
Great Job Danny for showing and educating us on the differences between quality and inferior parts example Air Core and Iron Coe Inductors using any parts that have iron in the signal path that degrades the signal path based on stored energy based and proven analytical Data.
Very impressed with the build quality of the Polk. Great video Danny.
Thanks for showing us the inside design and your thoughts on this! Cool the way you explained all of it and giving credit where credit is due without over selling what you do. Excellent! Not AC current running thru the iron core but DC.
Isn't the music signal in AC, not DC? And wouldn't the caps block DC?
Now that’s an education in minutes.
I enjoyed this immensely!
Danny, I was looking for a used pair of 703s. Your review blew it for me. They will now cost me more. Best to you.
I just saw that Tee-Jay posted about your Polk 703 crossover upgrade video. I subscribed, it’s a cool channel. TeeJay has serious audio passion, he’s the type of audiophile when he loves something he wants to love it even more lol
Tee-Jay’s channel is excellent. I find find his reviews to be very informative, and I can tell he has real good ears.
He is King of the Torleeeedle Transformer! Lol
I find modding speakers very interesting. You'd probably beat me up on my pair of lowly Yamaha NS-6490s. I found the midrange way too forward and the crossovers pretty bad. I swapped the tweeter out with a Tympani soft dome, installed Infinity RS 2-way crossovers, and converted it to dual front bass reflex ports. I also installed acoustic batting inside. All this really woke them up. I left the midrange disconnected, there isn't really any need for it other than to seal the hole for them. They now sound like much bigger speakers than they are.
Very much enjoy your videos!
I own more than ten pairs of speakers - Bose 901 (S6), Kef LS50 meta, Kef R3, Bower and wilkins 603s, and many more. The polk LSiM 703s are the best. They are HEAVY and sound fabulous. In my opinion, there is not better value for money than these polks.
I agree 👍
I had these and gave them away. They were nice, but I much preferred my GR Research and Philharmonic audio products over them. They also need a lot of power to open up IMO (from memory).
@@CujobobDanny's upgraded crossover would have helped your Polks open up quite a bit, I imagine. But plenty of clean power is always a good thing too.
@@dmark2639 yep, I have been running Purifi amplifiers for a while and they do a good job with anything I throw at them.
Imagine if you upgrade the crossover with better components
Got the 702fx on clearance, got 2 Pairs. Same drivers, sound amazing as a stereo pair! Hearing the 702's, I know the 703's are very special. Scott Orth is the Engineer.
I bought a pair of LSi9's back about 2006. The precursor to this model I believe. They made me VERY happy (replacing an old pair of Snell K's ) for about 14 years until a friend gifted me his entire Hi-Fi kit, including a pair of circa 1981 B&W DM7 MkII's. The polks are narrow (left to right) but deep, and VERY heavy. Built a pair of stands for them, filled with #9 birdshot. Knowing the DM's are long in the tooth at 42 years old, the LSi9's are always ready and the pair that never leave me. They ARE power hungry and really need current to sing. But when they do, oh how sweet they are.
I have had the LSi9's in here twice. The woofers had some bad break up at 600Hz and 1,000Hz that I couldn't fix. So there was nothing that I could do with them.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks for that info. Something for me to consider if I thought about future upgrades. But truth be told, I haven't the test equipment or spectrum analyzers to depict those weaknesses. I may have or will hear it at some point, yet would have been unable to reconcile it in my mind without your tip, so THANK YOU! Like anything else...gotta know the limits.
Love your videos!
I really like Polk! And now from there budget line up all there speakers sound and measure well 🔈👍🏻
The word you’re looking for is decoration. Great video always interesting thank you.
Hmm.. very curious for you to get your hands on the Polk R200
I'd love to see a breakdown of some of the old Dynaco tube amps with the level of detail that you put into the speaker reviews / upgrades. There were a ton sold back in the day and there are companies that make after-market upgrades for them. Maybe you could bring in a tube amp expert as a guest lecturer(?)...
This is your best speaker compliment.
Great video about what you guys do for a speaker in few words. Now when are you gonna get your hands in a Polk Reserve series one :-)
What a great video!! Thank you sir!!
interesting video. Great level of parts for the upgrade.
I have the floor tower model, i sit about 13ft away from the speakers. Did an experiment by placing a horn on the tweeters and the vocal clarity improved dramatically. Seems these speakers are better sounding at closer listening distance from speakers. Would love to upgrade the crossovers!
These are awesome. The entire lsim line is really slept on. I wish polk still made these. I have the 707. Fantastic tower.
I have two pair of 707s as my rear channels. Had the 703s was going to use them for atmos but decided to sell them as they were a but much for that.
If Polk still made these they would be totally different inside with budget cuts. Polk sadly isn't the same company anymore.
@@cup_and_cone You have no idea what you're talking about. Everything from the Signature Serise and up is made very well and offers both great build quality and for technical competency for the money. The reserve and legend are both built very well.
A VERY cool video- make me want to hunt down a pair of these on the used market! Plus, a really succinct explanation of what sonic benefits a parts upgrade can bring.
Two little details- There's a word for "degradingness"; it's "degradation". Also, there are "kudus" and there are "kudos". "Kudos" means, "Congrats on a job well done." "Kudus" are African antelopes.
Yeah, us Texans can sometimes butcher pronunciations.
Way to be pedantic, man 😅
@@dannyrichie9743 Ain't that the truth! (Richard, Texas born 'n' raised)
@@audio_facts I was gonna say, "Hey, details matter!"...but OK, yeah, I'll own it.
Still miles ahead in spelling and composition than other comments on other sites.
This explains to me why I never found active studio monitors to sound very good. They have the amp - but they still have all these same issues before it sounds good - and it's just not a remedy.
I appreciate the fact that you mention that the quality of parts and workmanship of these parts are sourced here.
I had both the 707's and the 703's; I ended up giving them to my daughter about 6 years ago. They are beautiful speakers but, I felt they were lifeless, and now i know why! I tried numerous amps, dacs, wires and I could not get any life into them. To me the sound of these was one dimensional and others obviously agreed. When a speaker sounds great everyone talks about it, and when it doesn't very few people talk about it: as evidence search for reviews and awards for this series of speakers. I wished I had known about your channel back then I probably would have looked into the crossover parts. I have learned a lesson about buying speakers that are new to the market; I now look for reviews and blogs from many sources when considering speaker purchases. I have learned many things from you Danny! Now I build my own speakers; there is no sense buying something that you have to upgrade out of the box.
Great one Danny.
So the old Polkies used to do outboard XO for the vintage SDA as upgrades. It’ll be on a to do list for 2024 for my L800.
I grabbed a pair of these during the great blowout period before the Polk L line replaced the LSiM line; they pull monitor duty for me on my PC, and they are permanent fixtures until I find something better. They are paired with an RSL Speedwoofer 10S and leave me wanting for nothing. Fantastic speakers, and at the discount prices they were a ridiculous value.
I like their quiet comfort wireless earbuds a lot.
Gr8 job Danny and gr8 job Polk.
is your name Prince!
I'm glad ya liked these, I like them too! I'm really glad you mentioned how much space all those new components will consume which will inadvertently change the freq response. These already have good binding posts, but I love how you still push these tube connectors.... Because ya can't sell that crack if ya can't get anyone addicted, right!?😁Cheers 🍻
The slight change in air space of moving the crossover externally won't change the frequency response.
I will always recommend whatever sounds the best. If those tube connectors didn't clearly sound better than binding post, then I wouldn't be using them.
@@dannyrichie9743:
Yeah man, I never question your integrity, and I agree with you a whole lot more than I disagree! But I don't agree with your tube connectors and I was only poking at them for fun. You can't prove those tube connectors make any difference at all, but you absolutely can show and tell the difference by stuffing the box full of all those new components.
If you remove available air space within a box, it will matter of fact change the box acoustically. You know this, I know this, we know all this, but I was only trying to commend you for mentioning it to those that may not know. It's not a common thought especially to someone with little experience. That's all I was sayin, really, aside from my crack joke regarding your tube connectors which still makes me chuckle 😁.....
Cheers 🍻
@@Finite-Tuning We have proved the audible differences of the tube connectors 100's of times. We even keep a pair of X-LS Encores around here that have both tube connectors and binding posts in parallel. It takes seconds to swap them back and forth. The difference is obvious.
As for the air space that the original crossovers took up, it doesn't amount to much. A little handful of insulation will make as much or more difference in tuning. Now trying to stick all of those new parts in there would take up some notable air space. I think it is wise to externally mount it all.
@@dannyrichie9743:
Sorry Dan, I guess I simply missed your "𝐓𝐮𝐛𝐞 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐬 𝐀𝐫𝐞 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐥𝐲 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐇𝐞𝐫𝐞'𝐬 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐫𝐨𝐨𝐟" video/document/study/test! Please post the link(s) here to the source of your proof so we can always refer to it from here on. I hate to be wrong the same as anybody, but I really 𝐥𝐨𝐯𝐞 to be proven wrong, with actual proof!
But anybody with some speaker box simulator program can '𝐬𝐞𝐞' the difference .2 sq ft makes and those new inductors in your kit will suck up some room in the box. Like you said! But don't try to tell me it won't make a difference consuming that space and then try to sell me "Tube Connectors" that nothing and no one has proven to date!!!!
I am not trying to argue with you, but my god man, you make it feel like pulling teeth sometimes when all I'm tryin to do is pat ya on the back, or nit pick a thing, or offer an opinion otherwise. Dude, ya gotta know me by now, I'm all about that proof and them numbers.
First time I see you use Solen caps and air inductors, I use them in a speaker I build sometime ago using Vifa 8 inch poly woofer and D25Ag35 Vifa tweeter, it sounded great, almost same components use on Vandersteen 2Ce
Those are NOT Solen caps. Those are the JB poly caps. I like them a lot better than the Solen caps.
@@dannyrichie9743 Ok thanks
Really great video Danny. I learned some new things, and it is great to see some well designed speakers out there at reasonable prices. Your crossover built into speaker stands is a great idea.
Great review. Keeping the Polk’s designed voice is fitting. Where can I find suitable caps etc? 600V caps and poor sizes are all I’ve found.
"You don't hear as much DEGRADATION"... Your welcome! LOL
"you're" welcome.
degradeness is a lake in scotland that is kept out of the maps
Great video! I'd like to see someone build a one-off speaker that uses OCC copper exclusively. Voice coils, crossover parts, internal wire, etc. All of my signal wire (interconnects and speaker wire) is OCC and I've never felt a need to upgrade any of it. B&W once made a speaker that used silver in every component (not sure the voice coils were silver, however). This (OCC) might be an enlightening exercise.
I build my nx otica pair with all kimber 8tc occ copper on the entire crossover and to the mids and tweeter from the crossover. I used Danny sold core 99.99% in Teflon copper for the woofers and damn does it sound good! I even put a rope thru all the kimber to open up the cable so they cross more at a 90 to improve the brading cancelation and lower the capacitance of the cable (this is easy to measure and works.) Ton of extra work but I would do it all again, oh and I used all wbt silver solder!
Take a shot each time Dan says "Pulk" 🍸🍸🍸🍸🍸🍸
Not a huge Polk fan, but those actually look well made. That woofer driver looks familiar.
1 left on Amazon. 1. I would use it for a center channel maybe.
Good review. Love the passion when you find a gem.
Happy Holidays to you and your crew.
Also. just a simple note and kudos. I have now A/B a set of you speaker wire which I got from you, last year. Around 500 so the good ones. real good. To a set of 2k brand I will not name. It beat em,
Wow I'm happy to own speakers that got good measurements!
I, on the other hand, am not verry happy to own GR Speakers that don't measure well.
I wonder if this is TJ from the TH-cam channels speaker. I bet it is, which means we will likely get a review 👍🏻
You will. He also has two pair of them. So, one pair will have the upgrade and the other won't.
polk rarely disappoints for value, 1 of your best vids, sharing some insight into how these component's help to improve thank you
The Polk LSiM midwoofer has a dual gap motor design with a captive shorting ring between the upper and lower gaps. However, the central pole is solid with no machined groove or groove formed by multiple inserted/bonded elements, etc.; and without this groove on the central pole matching the groove formed by the top and bottom plate, it is not an XBL^2 design. The XBL^2 patent specifically covers a design where there is a groove or notch in both the outside surface of the gap and the inside surface of the gap, and this produces the deepest B notch between the upper and lower gaps, so it is a little more efficient in producing a flatter BL curve from a shorter gap height, but if you need more Xmax and can tolerate a longer coil (more Mms) between the upper and lower gaps, Polk's approach is totally legitimate and I have actually seen this used in some other speakers that do not license the XBL^2 patent.
The Polk lsi m 703 series of speakers are the best Polk ever made. I own all of them. My sound system is beyond amazing !!
Thats Great! Dont let someone tell you you need a upgrade! Hint Hint
Danny do you know Dan Wiggins? He was the chief designer for Stark Sound and Sonos. I met Dan in 2018 at Starke Sound (they manufacture their drivers and cabinets in China) showroom in Gardena California. At that time Dan lived in Ventura county California.
I've known Dan for a long time.
Thats a lot of parts. I like the external crossover idea. Would be nice if you had some kind of mini enclosure for it.
Now Do a kit for the LSiM705's!!
It's a great hobby, loudspeaker connoisseur 😋
Now this is interesting. I owned the 703's and 706 and never should have sold them. My only issues with them were I thought they tried too hard to put out deep bass in my un-treated room with un-treated ears. And I could't find another pair of 703's, or 702's, at a decent price for surrounds so I sold the three I had. I also have three MB Quart Vera centers for the front three, which are phenominal! so I let the Polks go. The interesting part is I've also owned the Polk LSi9's which I thought were at least as good as the 703's. Should have kept those as well. But Danny is praising the 703's yet wouldn't even touch the LSi9's! That's what I love about all of this. We all have our own opinion's of what sounds good and what doesn't. Regardless of how they measure. But I'm glad Danny likes the 703's, and L600's. Polk can do great things...if they want to. 🙂
Lsim series is a big step up
Maybe so but I enjoyed listening to the LSi9's just as much. And in my room, the bass was just as deep but not as overwhelming as the 703's were. The 703's did have a smoother mid-range, I'll admitt to that. But even the guy I bought the LSi9's from didn't think the new LSiM's he replaced them with were that much of an upgrade. The LSi9's were the jewel of the previous series, along with the LSi25's, and their value has held steady at about $450-$500/pr. But as I said, I still wish I had kept them both. Even if I'm not sure what I would have done with them since I really like my MB Quarts, even though Danny probably wouldn't with their metal tweeters! And as always, this is just my own opinion. Cheers! 😊@@ufarkingicehole
@genecase9464 a lot of people love lsi9s. They offered really awesome price to performance. I have heard the lsi9 and I currently own the lsim 705s. Like both. Love the lsim 705s. Can't speak for the 703s though.
Scott Orth is the Engineer. I hope Polk is treating him well. I have 4xLSiM 703, 2xLSiM707, 1xLSiM 706c and 4xLSiM702f/x. Man these could be expensive XO upgrades...
It did involve a lot of parts, and those parts cost do add up.
I would love to send in one of my speakers to you to do an upgrade, but you live so far that the shipping would cost me a fortune too bad.
With all of the open baffle speakers on the market most utilize 12 - 15-inch woofers/midrange. Could you do a video comparing an open baffle using these large drivers, to the line array approach using smaller sd drivers? Pros and Cons, etc. Thanks.
It really is a case of horse for courses. And two completely different design philosophies based on physical characteristics. Here is some of the logic / thinking behind the options...
Displacement is displacement. It doesn't matter hugely what the configuration is, as long as you have the same Sd. What has a much larger impact are things like cancellation, motor size, and cone distortion / acceleration. I use 18" open baffle woofers, but due to a lack of a box and subsequent cancellation of the sound waves, it produces bass volumes more like that of a much smaller driver maybe a 6" or 8" in a box, but the big difference is sound quality. While that 6" or 8" might have 1/2" excursion, my 18" barely moves. Maybe somewhere in the vicinity of an 1/32" - 1/16" or 1mm - 1.5mm (if that). This reduces cone flex, so you don't get the same kind of levels of distortion you would moving a smaller driver 1/2".
Typically one of the big drawbacks on bigger drivers is the amount of moving mass. The bigger the cone, typically the more it will weigh. Using the same brakes try pull up a light car, versus pulling up a truck. Weight matters. So if a big driver is moving a lot, it might not have good control. This is where smaller drivers come into their own. One of the other advantages / disadvantages to smaller drivers are that you are going to have more motors to drive those cones. But one of the biggest compromises people make when it comes to speakers are cosmetic appearance.
On the down side of the box is you are constantly fighting the air inside box, and it is for this reason boxed bass will never sound as good as open baffle. These are just some of the considerations.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineeringHi!
I am also using 18" OB drivers.
There is all the frequencies and bass that is needed but there is no kick or chest pounding bass even at higher volumes (all confirmed with calibrated measuring microphone.)
I think it is because it is OB but I am also thinking of how much QTS has a impact on that. 🤔
Mine drivers is maybe or probably not the best for OB usage with QTS at 0.37.
What is your thoughs and what is your QTS that goes with that experience??
I Google this definition and I second that I have all the details in the world and can hear clearly everything without any smearing:
"So low values of Qts give a tight and punchy sound but with little weight or low bass and high Qts values give a slow and heavy sound that will give you lots of low frequency output."
@@AmazonasBiotop mine has a QTS of 0.25, so it is even stiffer. Compliance has a lot to do with it. OB woofers typically have a high QTS of around 0.7 although... The lower the QTS, the more control it has over the cone. From personal experience I think it has more to do with it coupling with the room better than a boxed speaker. I like to think of it of pressurising the room versus moving the air around. The last thing you want is your pictures banging on the walls, or rattles, while trying to listen to music.
Do you know when this will be available on website?
What ever happened to those wonderfull audio/speaker stores, in every shopping mall? in the 70's
Looks like Polk LSiM703 are no longer available for sale. Any decent stock speaker you could recommend?
2 questions, source point single driver. Crossover needed? If I purchased the air tubes, could I get them connected to the amp?
Halo , sir i have small can i ask , i have BP electrolytic cap value 10uf 100v and NP electrolytic cap value 8.2uf 100v , my question is if i want to replace new caps from electrolytic to poly caps does need to follow back the value caps and Bipolar n NonPolar also can be replace to poly caps ? kindly advise sir ! tq tq
I own a pair one of the best speakers I've ever owned
I own some too
I'm on the third pack this year alone
Have you had a chance to do something like this on LSIM 707 ? I am thinking about upgrading the crossover on my LSIM 707s .
Send one in and I can take a look at it.
Amir loves u
Question for Danny. You said in the review that you duplicated the Polk crossover with the same value parts of higher quality. Shouldn’t the DCR of the air-core coils match the DCR of the iron-core coils? If it’s different, won’t that alter driver roll-off, etc.?
The DCR only affects the response in the bottom end. In this case it went from a very small gauge iron core to a much larger gauge air core. So the DCR did not change very much.
If there is concern about matching DCR, ESR, or even inductance of wire-wound resistor, one must know the specified value when the part is new. A part that is several years old could be out of spec. Certainly don't want to match a new component to an out of spec value. Of more significance is the original tolerance specification. Inexpensive parts have typically wide tolerances. More likely original tolerance variation of inexpensive parts will have more impact than worrying about DCR, ESR, etc. of new higher quality parts with same L, C, and R values.
Also, one must understand that DCR of an inductor is measured at 0 Hz. ESR value for a capacitor is measured at 100 KHz. DCR and ESR are only useful to identify components NOT to use. Those values actually reveal very little about performance in an audio crossover.
if Danny was 'serious' he would have shown test results with his Probably Excellent crossovers... even to chain the parts on the bench and run wires thru the port would have been easy. Why not and where are your graphs ?
Wiil you ever offer a self powered bookshelf speaker? Something like a Kef Wireless?
No.
Good morning from Orlando Fl….. I want my focal Chorus 826 V to sound better. What can I do???? Thanks
Send it in and I can take a look at it.
In physics of room acoustics, the 𝙘𝙤𝙢𝙥𝙤𝙣𝙚𝙣𝙩 most vital for understanding the elements involved is 𝙬𝙖𝙫𝙚𝙡𝙚𝙣𝙜𝙩𝙝 𝙨𝙞𝙯𝙚.
Similarly, in crossovers and signal path integrity, perhaps the relevant items to envision are the 𝙨𝙞𝙜𝙣𝙖𝙡 𝙫𝙤𝙡𝙩𝙖𝙜𝙚 in the wire, and the magnitude of the 𝙨𝙪𝙧𝙧𝙤𝙪𝙣𝙙𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙛𝙞𝙚𝙡𝙙𝙨.
Being mindful of that would serve one well in understanding relative significance, ie., low corruption signal transfer, etc.
Also ...
I'd suspect Polk's low chuff loading ports have always been high on function.
That port flare establishs minimum wall proximity while retaining maximum flow (if smashed up against the boundary).
Killer video
Appreciate the content
Love ya Danny
How about a before and after on the waterfalls when the only cahgne is the change in parts quality0-0 no cahanges in values ? Think you can see a cleaner decay?
The waterfall plot shows the decay rates of the drivers, not the parts.
What does this mean? A waterfall of the acoustic output of a speaker surely includes the behavior of the parts unless you measure the drivers without the crossover installed. Is that what you do? Most people just measure the decay of the speaker as a whole, which surely includes teh parts.
@@robertgreene2684 It won't show stored energy of the parts. Take the smearing caused by an iron core in an inductor. The effect is not linear. It changes with power levels. Also, while we can measure ESR or dissipation rate in capacitors it will not show up in a spectral decay as it is completely covered over by the much longer decay rate of the drivers.
Will there be an instruction sent along with to help us do it correctly?
Yes.
I would like to hear difference before and after modification 😊
It will be super
He won't post before/after audio, it would hurt his sales. The difference is so subtle that it would not be detectable in youtube audio format.
@@roybatty- You mean post a compressed TH-cam file for people to listen to on their laptops? Yeah, that will really show off the differences. I talk about sound clips here: th-cam.com/video/uYQU25hKRoA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1IvVHENFu02BDLAE
@@dannyrichie9743 That's so wonderful that you talk about sound clips. But talk is cheap.
@@roybatty- The proof is in the pudding. An upgrade has just been sold to a TH-cam reviewer that has two pairs. He will have an upgraded pair and a stock pair for comparison. Let's see what he thinks.
@@dannyrichie9743 There are already plenty of forum posts talking about your upgrades. Some people love it, others hate it. It's subjective and everyone's opinion is 100% valid.
You are the best
people that say you do bash at production speakers dont understand anything about it..
production speakes of 1k need to cost max 3 400 . they just choosing parts to be as cheap as possible but sound just good enough for its price.
for example, good matching woofer tweeter. so its a minimum crossover
or cheap shitty speakers bit more corrected so sound a bit better.
you dont know untill you design, build or fix speakers
If I had a really old pair of speakers that have beat surrounds or a blown tweeter or two I might consider trying a complete mod if they sounded good at one time. He'd argue that point, but I've bought several pairs of speakers over the years that still are alive and well, that I wouldn't consider pulling apart since I auditioned them, and like how they sound even with inferior parts. This fella is basically saying every speaker manufacturer cheats you or can't design flat speakers. Who the heck buys a speaker because it measures flat? I sure don't. That's a studio monitor. Folks buy those to mix audio etc. Speakers have a proprietary signature that manufacturers strive for to differentiate themselves in a crowded marketplace. They hooked a meter up, trust me. They know how their speakers measure. Are there good and bad speakers? You bet. Audition before you buy. If you need an extra project give this guy a holler, or better yet, do the homework and get the best prices you can get for premium parts.
I have the larger 705s could I send in the crossovers and they benefit from the same upgrades?
I have the 705s. Added aperion super tweeters and bi amp them
Sounds awesome
@@ufarkingicehole but alas, I only have one amp.
The 705s are bright in the midrange and the tweeter. The 707s are a much warmer speaker.
@@markclark1605 your point being
@markclark1605 I 1000% disagree. If anything, the highs are slightly rolled off and the mids are very neutral.
Degradation is the word you are looking for.
One of my B&W CDM1 recently died, so I'm looking to upgrade. I've got close to €3000 to spend, definitely open to used. Room isn't great, but acoustically treated. I use a Gamut D200.
Anyone with suggestions?
th-cam.com/video/_9uFO_qozDk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VNgUj-exavtwna8w
Or maybe some Dynaudio Special 25 / Contour 20i in the used market.
Rogers LS3-5a 15 ohm version, serial number under 26000
@@rondegroot1508 "Rogers" that
Repair the one speaker?
Hi Danny, can I just take you up on a key point you make in this video and other videos. You say that frequency response doesn’t show how a speaker sounds, only how accurate it is. I respectfully disagree with this as it has been proven by the likes of Floyd Toole in controlled blind testing that frequency response (including the off-axis contributions) is one of the biggest factors in perceived sound quality.
Perhaps it’s just a turn of phrase on your part, but I think it might be misleading to some of your viewers.
Accuracy does figure into how a speaker sounds. However, a speaker can have a flat response and still sound dreadful, lifeless, have a flat two dimensional sound stage, and no resolution. There are many other factors that determine how a speaker sounds.
@@dannyrichie9743 I agree there are other factors. Frequency response is the key one though.
Woooo
woo woo
He lost me when he said the high quality binding posts make your speakers sound better. He probably thinks expensive speaker wires do too
I say what I know and I can back up everything I say.
I don't see it for sale anywhere.
Here: gr-research.com/product/polk-lsim-703-upgrade-kit/
This is pretty weird. Not that the speaker is good . But the explanation of stored energy. The truth is that those ridges on the waterfall plots are almost always associated to bumps in frequency response. Speaker drivers are minimum phase devices. If they resonate one sees it in the frequency response. Cf Toole's video.
Not really, there can be an amplitude peak with no resonance, or a very small amplitude peak and a lot of resonance.
This is surely true in the sense of a one point measurement. But that is the whole pont of spatially averaged measurements-- things like diffraction effects are eliminated by the averaging. But in actual practice, the ridges one sees in your plots are almost always attached to resonances. Look at the one for this Polk speaker. There is a ridge around 6 kHz which is attached to a bump. And the ridge around 700 Hz is also attached to a bump.
@@robertgreene2684 The spectral decay can show the effect of diffraction, and surface reflections. They can also be identified by knowing how to read the spectral decay. Internal cabinet reflections also show up on a spectral decay, and those are not seen in the frequency response measurement.
Does ring dome tweeter have a very narrow sweet spot?
Not at all.
I figured it would be really narrow and beaming as well but it's really not bad. I tried Polk's R200 a couple years ago when they were under $600. Not overly extended or sparkly but I enjoyed the tweeter..enough so that I purchased the R700. Not perfect by no means but plays nice for budget types. I'd like to see some improvements for the R700. A lot of parts in the 2 crossover boards though. I feel like I hear some resonance or ringing every once in awhile as well.
Got the 700s here, somewhat narrow in my opinion, not as wide as ribbon or horn imo
@@ChiefExecutiveOrbiter yeah not as wide as a horn and I guess it would depend on the ribbon. I've had AMT's that were worse..same with different domes. They aren't as extended, elevated, or detailed as most horns or ribbons either. Those tweeters don't work for me though..I'm overly sensitive which is why I don't have much issue with the Ring tweeters. The Polk's I have are almost 9ft apart and I sit that far away. They disappear pretty easily and on different axis points
If an accurate system sounds boring, then check your program material. :)
P.S. when the 703's first came out they were $3000 a pair and the 707's were $5400 a pair, now they are half that price.
I got two pair of 707s new when they were on sale for 1000 a pair. I still use them as my center rears and side rears. I had a third pair but sold them as I upgraded to a USA made speaker tower in my fronts. Same cherry finish as these. I also had the 703s for a couple months was going to use hem as atmos but decided they were too heavy.
When were they 3k? The 703s were 1500 a pair, not each.
@danny I’m curious as to what the measurement unit for Smear is? Could you not show us how this is reduced with your crossover upgrade like you show show the frequency response is? Would the waterfall plot show it as presumably Smear relates to stored energy? If we can hear it, it can be measured, no?
It must be more complex than just plain old frequency response given that a flat frequency response can be smeared.
@@toby9999 yes but what is smearing? Is it a linear distortion, non-linear distortion? Phase shift? Noise? Everything we can hear can be measured.
Smearing is measured in Spearkudotals. You just need a good smearkudotal meter.
Seriously though. Smearing from an iron core is not linear. It changes with power levels. Also, while ESR or dissipation can be measured in capacitors, it is not going to show up in a speaker measurement.
Nice:)😃
All MidFi amplifiers/AVR’s (A/V receivers) manufacturers use cheap cheesy steel in their speaker binding posts in their Amplifier sections! With that said, even if you have great copper tube connectors on the backs of the loudspeakers, you’re not gonna change the fact that the output of the binding post all these crappy MidFi Amplifier products are not going to smear the signal right out of the gate! The only way to rectify this issue is to install copper binding posts on the amplifiers, also, if the input sections on these amplifiers use cheesy Steele, Female RCA or XLR or connectors. you’re gonna have the same issue. Plugging in a good quality CD player or streamer, even those are gonna have the same cheesy steel in their RCA connectors as well. No one’s talking about this. there needs an upgrade path and replace them.
the input sections on these products have the female RCA connector made from plastic with metal steel leads (not Cooper) they are directly soldered onto the PCB board to the wire traces. Those are not easy to replace if you have a high end, CD player/Strummer or high and Preamp or high end amplifier. They drill holes into the back of their steel cases and use they steel brass coated, possibly gold plated female RCA connectors that have threads on the inside that are screwed down with nuts onto, the steel chassis. They’re all soldered on the back of the connectors to the PCB boards!
Good quality electronics go a long way as well.
So they compromised their drivers? Why even build it then?
Kudos to Polk!
Nice 🥰
Will this work on LSIM 707?
Only if you powered the lower woofers with a separate amp.
@dannyrichie9743 - I am interested in doing the upgrade to my 707s, but I noticed that one binding post connection goes to the midrange and tweeter while the other binding post goes to the mid-bass and the 2 other 6x9 woofers. Are you sure the kit for the 703 will work on my lsim707s?
Also, why do you recommend a separate amp for the woofers and midbass driver? Cannot I simply use my Parasound A21 to drive everything? Thx
I new ,about the 5th that you where the one
Translation please
I hear the flawed thinking concerning inaccuracies in a speaker's design on audio forums a lot; "that's how the designer wanted to voice the speaker".
NO!
Inaccuracies are ALWAYS bad design.
How could having a flat response be boring. How else would you ever faithfully reproduce the original recording If your speakers are altering the final signal!! Now if you just want a certain sound to your music then of course your response will not be flat.
I had the LSim towers and the center. My experience with them can be described in one word. BORING! They may be flat but were totally uninvolving to me. I tried to throw more power at them. 1st the Denon receiver then separate amps all the way up to a big Parasound 5 channel. Still couldnt connect with them.
Sold them for what i paid and the wife wasnt too happy. ( She loved the way they looked.)
The 707s are amazing towers. have two pair as my rears and went with a fill range tower made in USA speaker for my fronts.
Well, if Danny is right about the crossover components, that might explain why adding more power didn't help much.