Yeah you are absolutely correct or they just dont have enough resources (animators) or have waaay too high expectations of quality and realized animation takes longer then expected since its their first anime (cough cough zom 100)
Imo it doesn’t matter whether the animation being worse is the animators fault or the fault of management not giving them enough time. At the end of the day when you compare both Z and Super band for band the animation in Super just doesn’t stack up. The criticism is still VALID. Toei is still responsible at the end of the day.
@@DuhAsainThatHasSwag I think you mean art style because compare top and goku black saga in animation to any arc in Z and super just has better animation
@@somefatkid2080 I think YOU mean art style. When it comes to fluidity and creativity in choreography Z still wins. All Super is, is flashy. Anyway that wasn’t the main point of my comment. If you think the animation is better during the second half of the show happy for you. Doesn’t change the fact that first half is objectively worse in terms of quality and that’s Toei’s fault.
That would be fair except some of the bad scenes in the first few episodes are directly in the movie to but are perfect in the movie and movie came out before the show
@@dennisbeaman958There is this thing called google. You can search up a lot of info there. The early arcs of dbs had only 4 months of production time TOTAL. The movies had years.
Fun fact: The animator for episode 5 was the same animator for DBS: Broly, it's just that the timeconstrains were too large for an anime episode while movie animators have the time that they need
Nuh uh, How could their favorite superior show that they watch over and over again instead of enjoying other media have flaws!? (Insert hundreds of shocked emojis)
A couple things that also have a huge impact that weren't brought up: 1. They moved to digital for drawing, each frame in DBZ back then was drawn traditionally then scanned frame by frame, in Super, they used computer. 2. There was no manga reference in DBS, while not essential, it helps keep the art style a bit more consistent. Key animators have their own art style, and without a base, it's prone to change a lot.
@@jasonone8726 ESPECIALLY in the early dbz days and the frieza saga they were extremely inconsistent hell even in the cell saga it looked very inconsistent but still beautiful it was only in the buu saga where it was consistently beautiful and that arc is what people think all of dbz looks like
@@somefatkid2080 Back then, they also changed animation studios a lot. The Cell Games looked different every episode. That and the manga's art style was still changing back then. Even in the Buu saga, there was a lot of inconsistencies.
@@connordudley625 yeah there were 3-4 studios working on different episodes you are correct so its heavily inconsistent but yammamuro (probably spelt it horribly wrong) and other big names started really working on dragon ball when the buu saga came around which is why the art style increased in quality alot during the buu saga
I remember hearing that with episode 5, they had to outsource the animation to others because of the deadline, which is why the art looked very wonky. I felt bad for Naoki Tate. Lot of people went after him after episode 5 like he's the sole reason. He's one of the veterans and this was out of his control. I don't hate the art style of the anime, but there's no denying they were a bit too detailed. A lot like to dunk on Yamamuro, and there's some legit criticism, but I can't say I see him as the bad guy like some do. Maybe he's not in his prime, or maybe just his art style just changed over the years. Happens to a lot of artists. It was a bit annoying how often I'd see someone say "This is better animated than Super" when it comes to animation posted on TH-cam. I mean, no duh. Most animators who aren't working for a weekly series have more if not unlimited time. Some of Toei's animators are also working on other shows too. Not only that, but Dragon Ball's way more stylized. The anime industry can be brutal on its animators. I understand it's a passion thing, but they still deserve better.
My God, someone putting respect to animators, even if they’re not fully in-depth with the animation process. this must be some sort of miracle 🤩🤩🤩, anyways for real appreciate someone outside of TH-camrs that go more in-depth about super and other animes animation production, hopefully your video brings people one step closer into a decent understanding of a shows animation process as well as shut up the Toei haters that constantly complain about their shows like one piece having bad animation, just because they have a few limited animated episodes so they can give the animators a damn second to breathe
@@superkamijacob I might have problems with super in terms of writing, but even I think it’s completely unnecessary to have all this hate not just towards super, but towards its animators that were put in such an unfair circumstance
This video deserves way more attention! Love your editing and humor, and as someone who’s already a fan of DBS, I still ended up learning a few things I didn’t know before about the show! I’m glad the algorithm sent this my way, hopefully it keeps doing that.
Thank god you made this I hate that people compare the old movies(that have no time limit or schedule) to a tv show with a terrible schedule bro is underrated
YES. FINALLY. I can’t stand all these people making these stupid comparisons that aren’t even close to accurate to push some dumb agenda that doesn’t need to get pushed because the thing they’re actually trying to fight for isn’t what they are saying they’re fighting for. All of this absolutely needed to be said. And this was just about as concise as it could be too. But…don’t hate on Daima. It looks incredible. But I’m just hype for more official content. And opinions are ok and all that.
@@Hajime790 No way you said “copium.” How exactly am I blinded by nostalgia? I’m defending DBS. The ones you should be talking about are the DBZ fans. Checked your replies and realized that this isn’t the first time you’ve said that either.
@@zvorakzekrom Z was never perfect but I don't get the fucking soy attitude that Super fans have when any fans critic it. Sure misinformation and all that shit but that's not gonna change my views on Super being mediocre animation and art-style wise. If you're making a sequel to one of the biggest anime franchises and you come out with mixed results, sorry I'm gonna be annoyed by that shit.
Btw, worse is that. YES! Dbz does have very VERY rough moments in terms of animation or art style or frames (those Comparing frames makes me think zamasu was right but whatever) But Dbz still as an amazing art style. Like- Amazing to the point of being beloved not just by nostalgia in 2024. And you know what?.. it's the same for DBS! DBS as some awesome frame, art style and all. The animators were held backa and still cooked a 5 stars meal (Expect first two arcs but that was incredibly rough for them) so give them a break- they were on Mappa level of work ethics and still cooked.
most of the bad comes from stuff they had already worked on and didnt need to do so it wasnt as important... the quality skyrocketed after the recap arcs, so i personally think they rushed the recaps to get to the new and juicy content
@@sourlesscream1272 I think that's a goodd judgement and i think the same. Because yes episode 5 makes me wanna blast myself but..i mean not really the fault of the animators. So i agree.
@@Hajime790 Would you be able to animate in a time even mappa couldn't compete with? No because seriously animators don't become worse in a flash. Kinda reductive of someone's talent to be honest.
@@Hajime790 It all comes down to scheduling these animators are veterans who are some of the best animators in the entire industry but they were held back by a TERRIBLE schedule you can get the best artist in the world but if you dont give them enough time it will look like a 6 year old drew it
1 week to make an episode puts things in perspective when you think about the fact that a episode of southpark takes a week to animate and an episode of family guy takes like 10-12 months. Normally a week of animation in America gets you computer generated cardboard cutouts, those Japanese animators had to put blood sweat and tears into that to pull off a dragonball episode
They do have a few months headstart but that's still like 3 weeks per episode if I were the animators I would absolutely put more time animating the newer content than retold movies which is why I can see why it's those early episodes are shit
@@kaseytrevino it was more like 3-5 months for each ep which is still god fucking awful scheduling look at one piece for example it has 8-10 months per ep which is a healthy schedule for weekly anime standards
Totally agree with your opinions. Your facts are all on point. People are so eager to spread hate than positivity most of the times (I am not taking about everyone). But no hate to Daima either. I really enjoyed this video so much! Thanks!
Time is a virtue, all it would have taken was a couple of extra months or even a year and it would have been flawless. Even at the end of the 131 episodes they have improved so much with their ball game. Really great video and I hope the haters stop hating
the first person to agree with me THIS DEBATE IS SOOOO STUPID and people say this entire series WILL look bad but they didn't even watch the tournament of power IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
@@glubiglubstar3318 The majority of ToP looked like shit. You're remembering the cool shot of Jiren getting punched in the face and forgetting shit like the entire episode with Tien and the stupid Laser guy or Piccolo and the little bug.
I have the same opinion on this dbz animation is the best but dbs is a joke they destroyed for me this francise is milked and powerscaling don't have sense the transform are ass only chenge hair and ad aura story now is milked just story was never good only fight was the best and imfluencial in my opinion dragon ball should have ended with buu saga or cell saga after that dragon ball start to be worst and worst don't get me wrong but now it turns out that dragon ball is being alive bescuse of nostalgia I would like this show to end and why? because it suffers more from being continued I liked dragon ball but I think it's right to just end this show so that it doesn't suffer because it makes me feel sad
@@Luffy-237 First of all, learn to use punctuation please, I don't wanna be the "grammar" police, but not using commas is making me have a meltdown from your writing. On the other hand, DBZ broke the scales first, DBS is just following it up (kaioken was just Goku but red, ssj2 was ssj but with lighting and ssj3 was long hair). As you mentioned, plot and history was NEVER a strong point of DB, it was mainly the characters that drove people to like the show. And if we think about it, DBS did that PERFECTLY, Broly super? Fan favorite, Goku black? Beloved, Zamasu? Kinda memed on due to long speeches but people still like him a lot, Hit? I've seen a lot of fans, even the gammas are widely liked and then Jiren is kinda meh in my opinion but he is still liked overall. So to me, aside from art work in the first episodes, everything else has been great regarding DBS, specially the movies which, in my opinion: They trash on almost every DBZ movie and it's not even close (Maybe with the exception of fusion reborn and Broly Z)
you bring up fair points! i do have some critiques, tho: - the first two arcs had their fair share of sakuga moments, too. naoki tate, for instance, is super good at exaggerating proportions to really sell those impactful blows, and he does this while basically rejecting tadayoshi yamamuro's character sheets. - yamamuro's current art style, while a far cry from what it used to be, i argue isn't as bad as people say it is. he just has a terrible habit of over-correcting any drawing he comes across. - highlights aren't bad! it just depends on how they're incorporated into the drawings. akira toriyama and katsuyoshi nakatsuru have used their fair shares of highlights in their drawings and they do it well! i can't say the same thing about yamamuro, tho 😭 all in all, good video! i'm glad to see takes like this slowly become the general consensus and i hope more people will take this as an opportunity to learn more about the animation process
Fact: even tho the first arcs of dragon ball super had some terrible artwork ,the animation was really fuild which even some seasonal animes like mha lack
Even DBZ had some rough moments like Base Goku vs Frieza (Which is not a coincidence at this point) But. DB in general is very fluid and just smooth even at its roughest.
@@LegendaryChadzilla Yeah. I mean. In general DBZ has some clean animation usually. This one was rough though and when i saw it i never could not notice it. I do admit that it's very rare. Which is impressive and i think Dragon ball was really ahead at some of the parts and usually highs of this generation. (Even in fillers which..i mean damn it's impressive)
I think you’d say that for anyone that trash talks about any Toei shows animation, trust me, i’m a fan of one piece and the amount of times I see someone in experience, trying to trash talk about one piece having “bad” animation is honestly almost as bad as people trash talking supers animation 🙂
@@supersubatomicsonicgenerat4688 hey man, One Piece has really modern animation and a good animation team yet the pacing is horrible 6.25 days worth of filler? really?
i’ve seen the show… they made my goat act mad immature… and failed with early animation, they did start to pick up towards the end but the anime sucked ngl- it had a lot of good and bad moments but the mangas just better lol
Thank you, Jacob, ever since I watched Super I've been a defender of it. Sometimes I get silenced by the people who are still stuck in the past, but I genuinely enjoy Super and what it has to offer
DBS at its lowest, not counting the tragedy of episode 5, was about as bad as DBZ at lowest (Cell/Frieza having different character designs episode by episode....). At its peak, it was better than DBZ in terms of quality. Comparing only series vs series. Not movie to movie. I'd argue DBS Broly movie is way better than DBZ movie animations.
how tf you have only 2k subs? ik it's a newish one but bro your channel is amazing. i actually been watching this entire video thinking you were like a 600K channel or something like that, keep up the good work wish you sucess
It was fairly choppy when it started and then got a lot better later on. I think the super bashing is getting really stupid and wish folks would take off nostalgia glasses for once, because that's usually that's the main reason, because they don't offer too many legitimate reasons on why super sucks. Just that it does. IF they give out reasons, it's usually just nit picking. There are a few things that bothered me initially but a lot of Super is still solid like Z was.
What makes people complaining about the animation for the first two and a half arcs even dumber is that the animators literally WENT BACK and fixed all of these scenes! If you buy the physical Blu-Rays or the HD versions of this show on digital all the old animation errors are GONE! They heard the fans complaints and literally went back and TOOK THE TIME to fix it all after already being overworked, and yet people are STILL clowning on the broadcast version of the show! Today you aren't even really gonna see the animation errors unless you watch this show on effing CABLE!
I had no idea people hated super that much as it pretty late to dragon ball Honestly as a person who didn’t grow up with it Super is just undoubtedly the best same with super broly
@@watermelongaming3698 eh oh well I like what I like everyone else can go do one lol If people hate me for it then they are sad neckbeards who need to touch grass
Super have a lot of things that are BAD First: super saiyan god only appears on beerus saga and t.o.p saga Second: super saiyan blue is OVERUSED, in the manga, blue is used only when is really necessary (also god is used, unlike anime) Third: toei loves to put a lot of useless things, random caracters and make the main characters look dumb (specially goku) Fourth: no blood, goku and vegeta literally being cut and what? MILK! AND WORSE, MILK FROM THEIR MOUTHS If you want something good from dragon ball SUPER, read the manga, the manga is good
@@GuzinZueiro Aaaand there it is! Counterpoint: I still enjoyed Dragon Ball Super. Minus skipping a few filler episodes, I had no real problem beyond a little repetitiveness/dragging on. "But it's bad!! Here's why:" Ok, doesn't change the fact I enjoyed it.
I just wanna say now im in OG gang But seriously though man this is a great video and makes some really good points I was seriously suprised this was your first upload
I admire the comeback in super, but I mostly dislike the artwork in super for its style, not animation. Its not their fault but like nyeh I really dont like how for example beams and blasts look.
That's fair. I miss how the blasts used to encompass the entire screen and be so bright, the characters would have that shade of color all over them. Goku versus vegeta is a good example
@@humanexister They have more in betweens. I seriously advise you to go back to Z. Yes, looped animation is used plentifully in all of DB. But DBZ in particular was the only show which did these weird “rebound loops” on every major impact and had weird after images
@@UsernameUsername0000 Having more in-betweens does not equate to better animation. The end result is often the same or worse. For example, in the finale when Jiren and Goku are "trading punches" and both characters stay completely still while the screen shakes and disembodied arms fly around the frame at impossible incomprehensible angles. It looks terrible in motion. It's funny you mention "impact" because that's another thing DBS does incredibly poorly save for one or two moments. Almost none of the punches or kicks in the show have any weight or impact. It's remarkable.
I agree with almost everything(give daima a chance) that you said. Super animation deserves to be praised for its amazing work. Whenever someone says the animation bad for the first 2 arcs, i point out "did you ever stop to think the only reason the animation is bad is because theyre RETELLING THE MOVIES, and the next arcs after is gonna have better animation. Also something you failed to mention is GT and i kinda respect that
In DBZ, there were always some episodes that used different art styles. For instance, some episodes with Yamcha - his hair would look like Bart Simpson. In other episodes, his hair appeared more stylized. I learned that in every anime, you're going to have episodes with lackluster animation, and some with incredible stuff that inspire me to draw again.
Early dbs before it being for streaming services was just the animators being really rusty after a long time of not doing Dragonball stuff... They had to get back into the swing of things since the 90s... That's what I thought... And I thought it still looked pretty good.
4:27 The fight between Zamasu and Vegito was mediocre, not because of the quality, but because the attacks and sound effects felt so underwhelming and killed all tension. Look at Vegito Vs Majin Buu, then Vegito Vs Zamasu, and you'll get my point.
i scrolled down to read the comments and got jumpscared by your subscriber count, your video quality is (in my opinion) better then some other creators I have seen in similar areas with way more subscribers
I agree 100% with you! Your take on this matter is pretty fair and yeah your right why compare a litrial movie to a tv show! And yeah anytime I rewatch DBS I do watch the movies or put it on as background noise
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Dude i’m sorry literally throughout the entire video all i could think was “since when did greg from steven universe start doing youtube???”
BRO WHAT
@@superkamijacob i’m telling you bro when you do that slight yelling you sound just like him 😭😭
I'm looking this up
Edit: WHY IS THAT SO ACCURATE IM DONE
@@superkamijacob SEEE 😭😭😭 but jokes aside the video was awesome and i enjoyed every minute of it. Keep it up man 🙏🙏
Aww thank you I appreciate it 😊
"5 Years Ago Dragon Ball Super Ended" Hit too hard bro IT'S BEEN FIVE YEARS??
tbh I expected like 6
Wasn't it 6??
Bruce it’s been 5 years and you still owe me 16 dollars
It’s actually been 6
It was 6. Only the dub ended 5 years ago.
Lesson to live by, if the animation sucks, 10/10 times its because the animators were screwed over by a ridiculous deadline
Yeah you are absolutely correct or they just dont have enough resources (animators) or have waaay too high expectations of quality and realized animation takes longer then expected since its their first anime (cough cough zom 100)
Good point
Imo it doesn’t matter whether the animation being worse is the animators fault or the fault of management not giving them enough time. At the end of the day when you compare both Z and Super band for band the animation in Super just doesn’t stack up. The criticism is still VALID. Toei is still responsible at the end of the day.
@@DuhAsainThatHasSwag I think you mean art style because compare top and goku black saga in animation to any arc in Z and super just has better animation
@@somefatkid2080 I think YOU mean art style. When it comes to fluidity and creativity in choreography Z still wins. All Super is, is flashy. Anyway that wasn’t the main point of my comment. If you think the animation is better during the second half of the show happy for you. Doesn’t change the fact that first half is objectively worse in terms of quality and that’s Toei’s fault.
It's because the animators dont get enough time to animate details so it comes rushed
That would be fair except some of the bad scenes in the first few episodes are directly in the movie to but are perfect in the movie and movie came out before the show
@@dennisbeaman958pls think before commenting😂
@@dennisbeaman958There is this thing called google. You can search up a lot of info there.
The early arcs of dbs had only 4 months of production time TOTAL. The movies had years.
They even hired people who never animated for a big studio before to animate this show
@@dennisbeaman958wow almost as if it was a movie and not a whole show😂
Fun fact: The animator for episode 5 was the same animator for DBS: Broly, it's just that the timeconstrains were too large for an anime episode while movie animators have the time that they need
Naoki Tate's work on Super is divisive. His art style just looks wacky, even in Broly.
@@jasonone8726 buggin
@@jasonone8726oh nah u trippin fr
@@ars2805 The part when Goku was showing 4 fingers to Vegeta. It looked like his hand was drawn by a 5 year old.
@@jasonone8726🧢
They were absolutely COOKING in the T.O.P arc like man I remember every week being like "Holy shit this looks awesome."
Frrrr
I remember Me and my homies used to watch that shit every week while in school bro that was hype asf
I remember being like 8 and freaking out 😂
i regret not caring about it back then
@@joaquinchua3348yeah agreed
I think people mistaken animation style for art style
Agreed
The art style is horrendous which what people mean
That’s what he’s saying
This is both shit art style and animation style
@@Grind2ExcellenceNo it isn't what are you on
I quote the cleaner from Toy Story 2: *_"You can't rush art."_*
the part that annoys me the most is when i show those haters bad frames from z
they completely ignore it
Nuh uh, How could their favorite superior show that they watch over and over again instead of enjoying other media have flaws!? (Insert hundreds of shocked emojis)
It's not like it was released in the 1900s but ok
@@Draco-__-deo thats not a reason
they had way more time too as far as i know
and in that case just dont compare it to super ??
@@ghostslord-23 super is ass cry lil bro
@@ghostslord-23 still not a good excuse for the shit animation but ok lil bro
im ngl I agree with everything EXCEPT FOR TELLING PPL TO HATE ON DAIMA, DAIMA DESERVES NO HATE 😭😭
The show hasn't even came out yet LOL
Man, people suck
Eh
That was a joke
If you didn't get it
The entire concept of daima deserves hate @@Nezukoscat
@@Dmgx32Just let Toriyama cook man😭 It’s his final project so lets hold on until when it comes out
A couple things that also have a huge impact that weren't brought up:
1. They moved to digital for drawing, each frame in DBZ back then was drawn traditionally then scanned frame by frame, in Super, they used computer.
2. There was no manga reference in DBS, while not essential, it helps keep the art style a bit more consistent. Key animators have their own art style, and without a base, it's prone to change a lot.
Good point
Ehh, the art style was pretty inconsistent in Z also when it came to adapting the manga.
@@jasonone8726 ESPECIALLY in the early dbz days and the frieza saga they were extremely inconsistent hell even in the cell saga it looked very inconsistent but still beautiful it was only in the buu saga where it was consistently beautiful and that arc is what people think all of dbz looks like
@@somefatkid2080 Back then, they also changed animation studios a lot. The Cell Games looked different every episode. That and the manga's art style was still changing back then. Even in the Buu saga, there was a lot of inconsistencies.
@@connordudley625 yeah there were 3-4 studios working on different episodes you are correct so its heavily inconsistent but yammamuro (probably spelt it horribly wrong) and other big names started really working on dragon ball when the buu saga came around which is why the art style increased in quality alot during the buu saga
I remember hearing that with episode 5, they had to outsource the animation to others because of the deadline, which is why the art looked very wonky. I felt bad for Naoki Tate. Lot of people went after him after episode 5 like he's the sole reason. He's one of the veterans and this was out of his control. I don't hate the art style of the anime, but there's no denying they were a bit too detailed. A lot like to dunk on Yamamuro, and there's some legit criticism, but I can't say I see him as the bad guy like some do. Maybe he's not in his prime, or maybe just his art style just changed over the years. Happens to a lot of artists.
It was a bit annoying how often I'd see someone say "This is better animated than Super" when it comes to animation posted on TH-cam. I mean, no duh. Most animators who aren't working for a weekly series have more if not unlimited time. Some of Toei's animators are also working on other shows too. Not only that, but Dragon Ball's way more stylized. The anime industry can be brutal on its animators. I understand it's a passion thing, but they still deserve better.
Well said
Why is this so underrated😭
new channel lol
My God, someone putting respect to animators, even if they’re not fully in-depth with the animation process. this must be some sort of miracle 🤩🤩🤩, anyways for real appreciate someone outside of TH-camrs that go more in-depth about super and other animes animation production, hopefully your video brings people one step closer into a decent understanding of a shows animation process as well as shut up the Toei haters that constantly complain about their shows like one piece having bad animation, just because they have a few limited animated episodes so they can give the animators a damn second to breathe
Fax! They put their heart and soul into bringing us a show we hold close to our hearts. It's bout time we showed them some respect!
@@superkamijacob I might have problems with super in terms of writing, but even I think it’s completely unnecessary to have all this hate not just towards super, but towards its animators that were put in such an unfair circumstance
💯
why is bro so underrated 😭(remember me or else i'll touch you)
Understood.
THE ONLY ONE TOUCHING HIM IS ME
Damn I don't remember you all off a sudden... 😏
Ayo
holy shit i come back 5 hours later and this shit has 189 likes 2.1k views when it only had 20 likes and like 54 views.
This video deserves way more attention! Love your editing and humor, and as someone who’s already a fan of DBS, I still ended up learning a few things I didn’t know before about the show! I’m glad the algorithm sent this my way, hopefully it keeps doing that.
Oh wow it's almost like they were rushed out the ass and the staff had almost no time
This is so underrated bro, just commenting for encouragement and engagement
Hey I appreciate it!
me when i compare a movie to an episodic series that’s on a very tight schedule (im so tight mnf)
you're tight? pause💀
I can confirm that he is infact tight.
Thank god you made this I hate that people compare the old movies(that have no time limit or schedule) to a tv show with a terrible schedule bro is underrated
YES. FINALLY. I can’t stand all these people making these stupid comparisons that aren’t even close to accurate to push some dumb agenda that doesn’t need to get pushed because the thing they’re actually trying to fight for isn’t what they are saying they’re fighting for. All of this absolutely needed to be said. And this was just about as concise as it could be too. But…don’t hate on Daima. It looks incredible. But I’m just hype for more official content. And opinions are ok and all that.
They’re blinded by nostalgia
@@zvorakzekrom Copium, you're blinded by nostalgia
@@Hajime790 No way you said “copium.” How exactly am I blinded by nostalgia? I’m defending DBS. The ones you should be talking about are the DBZ fans.
Checked your replies and realized that this isn’t the first time you’ve said that either.
@@zvorakzekrom Z was never perfect but I don't get the fucking soy attitude that Super fans have when any fans critic it. Sure misinformation and all that shit but that's not gonna change my views on Super being mediocre animation and art-style wise. If you're making a sequel to one of the biggest anime franchises and you come out with mixed results, sorry I'm gonna be annoyed by that shit.
Btw, worse is that. YES! Dbz does have very VERY rough moments in terms of animation or art style or frames (those Comparing frames makes me think zamasu was right but whatever)
But Dbz still as an amazing art style. Like- Amazing to the point of being beloved not just by nostalgia in 2024. And you know what?.. it's the same for DBS! DBS as some awesome frame, art style and all. The animators were held backa and still cooked a 5 stars meal (Expect first two arcs but that was incredibly rough for them) so give them a break- they were on Mappa level of work ethics and still cooked.
most of the bad comes from stuff they had already worked on and didnt need to do so it wasnt as important... the quality skyrocketed after the recap arcs, so i personally think they rushed the recaps to get to the new and juicy content
@@sourlesscream1272 I think that's a goodd judgement and i think the same. Because yes episode 5 makes me wanna blast myself but..i mean not really the fault of the animators.
So i agree.
@@codpoopy5559 Copium, is really the fault of the animators because the same animators for the past become worse
@@Hajime790 Would you be able to animate in a time even mappa couldn't compete with?
No because seriously animators don't become worse in a flash. Kinda reductive of someone's talent to be honest.
@@Hajime790 It all comes down to scheduling these animators are veterans who are some of the best animators in the entire industry but they were held back by a TERRIBLE schedule you can get the best artist in the world but if you dont give them enough time it will look like a 6 year old drew it
man i remember a guy that sayed that super is "animated dragon ball evulotion" like bruh💀
They're haters🤡
I watched the whole video and honestly, it deserves way more likes.
1 week to make an episode puts things in perspective when you think about the fact that a episode of southpark takes a week to animate and an episode of family guy takes like 10-12 months. Normally a week of animation in America gets you computer generated cardboard cutouts, those Japanese animators had to put blood sweat and tears into that to pull off a dragonball episode
They do have a few months headstart but that's still like 3 weeks per episode if I were the animators I would absolutely put more time animating the newer content than retold movies which is why I can see why it's those early episodes are shit
@@kaseytrevino it was more like 3-5 months for each ep which is still god fucking awful scheduling look at one piece for example it has 8-10 months per ep which is a healthy schedule for weekly anime standards
11:16 bro died and got replaced by some ai😭
He got shot by a Tesla sniper after calling "X" Twitter
Totally agree with your opinions. Your facts are all on point. People are so eager to spread hate than positivity most of the times (I am not taking about everyone). But no hate to Daima either. I really enjoyed this video so much! Thanks!
Absolutely! (And Daima was a shitty joke on my part)
@@superkamijacob haha, I understood that XD but mentioned it anyway.
i just hope that when they animate the best super arc, the moro arc, they dont screw it up.
Time is a virtue, all it would have taken was a couple of extra months or even a year and it would have been flawless. Even at the end of the 131 episodes they have improved so much with their ball game.
Really great video and I hope the haters stop hating
Why thank you! Glad this message got spread around
the internet is far too fucking negative
Honestly
I'd say the perfect fix for this problem would have been to not make DBS in the first place.
Nah DBS was goated
the first person to agree with me THIS DEBATE IS SOOOO STUPID and people say this entire series WILL look bad but they didn't even watch the tournament of power IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
85% of the tournament of Power did look bad.
@@awesomereviews1561 Shut up tablos
@@awesomereviews1561 what the hell are you talking about?
@@glubiglubstar3318 The majority of ToP looked like shit. You're remembering the cool shot of Jiren getting punched in the face and forgetting shit like the entire episode with Tien and the stupid Laser guy or Piccolo and the little bug.
@@awesomereviews1561 You dont know what bad looks like then 💀
I still remember seeing ui sign and legit being like "Holy Sh*t" from the animation.
Honestly the art style during the tournament of power arc is the best art style in a DB series ever in my opinion.
I have the same opinion on this dbz animation is the best but dbs is a joke they destroyed for me this francise is milked and powerscaling don't have sense the transform are ass only chenge hair and ad aura story now is milked just story was never good only fight was the best and imfluencial in my opinion dragon ball should have ended with buu saga or cell saga after that dragon ball start to be worst and worst don't get me wrong but now it turns out that dragon ball is being alive bescuse of nostalgia I would like this show to end and why? because it suffers more from being continued I liked dragon ball but I think it's right to just end this show so that it doesn't suffer because it makes me feel sad
@@Luffy-237 First of all, learn to use punctuation please, I don't wanna be the "grammar" police, but not using commas is making me have a meltdown from your writing.
On the other hand, DBZ broke the scales first, DBS is just following it up (kaioken was just Goku but red, ssj2 was ssj but with lighting and ssj3 was long hair).
As you mentioned, plot and history was NEVER a strong point of DB, it was mainly the characters that drove people to like the show.
And if we think about it, DBS did that PERFECTLY, Broly super? Fan favorite, Goku black? Beloved, Zamasu? Kinda memed on due to long speeches but people still like him a lot, Hit? I've seen a lot of fans, even the gammas are widely liked and then Jiren is kinda meh in my opinion but he is still liked overall.
So to me, aside from art work in the first episodes, everything else has been great regarding DBS, specially the movies which, in my opinion: They trash on almost every DBZ movie and it's not even close (Maybe with the exception of fusion reborn and Broly Z)
Db and Dbz story were great
Not just the fights the story too and mainly the story
@@shadow_58 100% agreed. Couldn’t have said it better myself
I personally think that Shintani's designs for the Broly movie are my favorite
you bring up fair points! i do have some critiques, tho:
- the first two arcs had their fair share of sakuga moments, too. naoki tate, for instance, is super good at exaggerating proportions to really sell those impactful blows, and he does this while basically rejecting tadayoshi yamamuro's character sheets.
- yamamuro's current art style, while a far cry from what it used to be, i argue isn't as bad as people say it is. he just has a terrible habit of over-correcting any drawing he comes across.
- highlights aren't bad! it just depends on how they're incorporated into the drawings. akira toriyama and katsuyoshi nakatsuru have used their fair shares of highlights in their drawings and they do it well! i can't say the same thing about yamamuro, tho 😭
all in all, good video! i'm glad to see takes like this slowly become the general consensus and i hope more people will take this as an opportunity to learn more about the animation process
Insightful!
It's not bad but I dont like how clean and bright its look
Fair
No harmony in colours I'd say. Or no good fusion between them. Dbz and dbs broly have the same fusion.
Seeing how the artstyle evolved again with Daima makes me so happy! That shit looks so good!
@@matheuscastro8791 it actually does
0:21 i like the outlines tho :O
Very good video. I now have a newfound respect for the animators
LETS GOOOO
i didnt really notice i just watched the anime and started screaming at the cool parts with the bois
Fact: even tho the first arcs of dragon ball super had some terrible artwork ,the animation was really fuild which even some seasonal animes like mha lack
Honestly good point. One of the clips I showed in the video between Goku and Freiza were technically good in animation, just not in artstyle.
Even DBZ had some rough moments like Base Goku vs Frieza (Which is not a coincidence at this point)
But. DB in general is very fluid and just smooth even at its roughest.
@@codpoopy5559base Goku vs frieza generally had lots of good artwork and animation. Just one episode tbh causes problems
@@LegendaryChadzilla Yeah. I mean. In general DBZ has some clean animation usually. This one was rough though and when i saw it i never could not notice it. I do admit that it's very rare. Which is impressive and i think Dragon ball was really ahead at some of the parts and usually highs of this generation.
(Even in fillers which..i mean damn it's impressive)
?? :skull:
Bro super haters just have not seen the show, they make it obvious
I think you’d say that for anyone that trash talks about any Toei shows animation, trust me, i’m a fan of one piece and the amount of times I see someone in experience, trying to trash talk about one piece having “bad” animation is honestly almost as bad as people trash talking supers animation 🙂
@@supersubatomicsonicgenerat4688 hey man, One Piece has really modern animation and a good animation team yet the pacing is horrible 6.25 days worth of filler? really?
i’ve seen the show… they made my goat act mad immature… and failed with early animation, they did start to pick up towards the end but the anime sucked ngl- it had a lot of good and bad moments but the mangas just better lol
As someone who has seen super. I hated it.
Im saying bruh. They listen to thier favorite youtubers more than the source material 💀
What made the early episodes even worse is that the movies had the exact same fights, which were incredibly animated
I swear not one person ever mentions GT. Ever.
Gt was released in the 80's wdye?
@alptugraakan7490 And? Also, it was released in the late 90's.
@@alptugraakan7490 No it wasn't it was the mid 90's
Thank you, Jacob, ever since I watched Super I've been a defender of it. Sometimes I get silenced by the people who are still stuck in the past, but I genuinely enjoy Super and what it has to offer
Thank you 😊
My god...a video that doesn't mindlessly hate on DBS and gives it fair criticisms while also calling out the stupid ones??? MY MAAAN 🤝
What is there to properly complain about in Daima? The anime's not even out.
DBS at its lowest, not counting the tragedy of episode 5, was about as bad as DBZ at lowest (Cell/Frieza having different character designs episode by episode....). At its peak, it was better than DBZ in terms of quality.
Comparing only series vs series. Not movie to movie. I'd argue DBS Broly movie is way better than DBZ movie animations.
Exactly. But we don't dunk on old movies because, their old movies and still have amazing art and animation
Ok cell gets a pass tho
1:21 is that ultrakill i see
It is
6:20 Dbs is too polished! Glossy, Vaseline on everything from hair to skin to *_pants._*
And that much detail (which doesnt look good) with the god awful schedule they had made it a living nightmare to work on this anime for the animators
6:00 In most cases Kai isn't the alternative, it's the only available version...
I wanna see Piccolo learn to drive! but I can't.
Kai was basically made for the people that don’t want to sit through shit tons of filler
@@lewisgrant7622 I love filler, it's mostly inconsequential, but still good... Except in One Piece, that stuff is de-motivating and exhausting...
the TOP is so amazingly animated 💀
the animation is good, but comparing it TO A GOSH DARN DBZ MOVIE. it's just plainly stupid, and like you said the animators had HORRENDOUS deadlines
FAX
how tf you have only 2k subs? ik it's a newish one but bro your channel is amazing. i actually been watching this entire video thinking you were like a 600K channel or something like that, keep up the good work wish you sucess
Thank u man! I'll make it there one day
I'm so glad people are talking about this. It has honestly taken people way too long to realize this.
It was never the animation itself that was bad, it was the artwork that was hella spotty
1:50 bro i was just about to say movie budget vs per episode budget isn't a good comparison
why tf is this guy underated though you would have atleast 100k man u deserve it
Oh man, thank u :)
Hate is easier than love for the fans (or like encouraging them animators).
God I love hearing someone talk about what I've been saying for years now
It was fairly choppy when it started and then got a lot better later on. I think the super bashing is getting really stupid and wish folks would take off nostalgia glasses for once, because that's usually that's the main reason, because they don't offer too many legitimate reasons on why super sucks. Just that it does. IF they give out reasons, it's usually just nit picking. There are a few things that bothered me initially but a lot of Super is still solid like Z was.
Honestly when I first heard that people thought Super had bad animation I was like "Have yall not seen the ToP???"
Right?
1:20 for those wondering, this song is called "Into the fire (no enemies)" from ULTRAKILL
no enemies😭 i need my blood, IM RUNNING LOW (V1)
Machine, turn back now.
@@maestro7123 as i am the rightchous hand of the father
I completely love the animation and the show, and the video u produced (u glazed T.O.P VEGITO BLUE IS THE BEST( I meant goku black arc)
Highkey thought this mf would have at least 100k
HE'S SO GOOD
peak cinema right here!!!!!!
Remember guys, dbz has its flaws like mistakes in animation and often miscolouring body parts in the earliest arcs (saiyan and frieza)
Fact but you know what, they don't care😓
@@bloodhazat264 no it's because half the fandom didn't even watch the anime or just don't focus
10:24 i dont think anyones gonna complain about that, it has fire animation and its toriyama's last project
Remains to be seen....
(Jk)
Underrated you’re good at editing and I love the commentary and your concern for the animators as well
THE GRILL MASTER
What makes people complaining about the animation for the first two and a half arcs even dumber is that the animators literally WENT BACK and fixed all of these scenes! If you buy the physical Blu-Rays or the HD versions of this show on digital all the old animation errors are GONE! They heard the fans complaints and literally went back and TOOK THE TIME to fix it all after already being overworked, and yet people are STILL clowning on the broadcast version of the show! Today you aren't even really gonna see the animation errors unless you watch this show on effing CABLE!
All that for mid ass episodes of them fighting dogs and bird people
Ok u valid
@@superkamijacob I feel bad for them more than anything I know it was there fault all that work
Respect for the animators to animate from dbz to dbs. They have been animating for over TWENTY YEARS.
Nah 7:31 is a sign, the animators be looking like goku in that frame
☠️
I had no idea people hated super that much as it pretty late to dragon ball
Honestly as a person who didn’t grow up with it
Super is just undoubtedly the best same with super broly
You are going to need a *lot* of Senzu Beans once "fans" catch wind that you like Super (Not Super Broly, pretty sure everyone likes that.)
@@watermelongaming3698 eh oh well I like what I like everyone else can go do one lol
If people hate me for it then they are sad neckbeards who need to touch grass
Super have a lot of things that are BAD
First: super saiyan god only appears on beerus saga and t.o.p saga
Second: super saiyan blue is OVERUSED, in the manga, blue is used only when is really necessary (also god is used, unlike anime)
Third: toei loves to put a lot of useless things, random caracters and make the main characters look dumb (specially goku)
Fourth: no blood, goku and vegeta literally being cut and what? MILK! AND WORSE, MILK FROM THEIR MOUTHS
If you want something good from dragon ball SUPER, read the manga, the manga is good
@@GuzinZueiro Aaaand there it is!
Counterpoint: I still enjoyed Dragon Ball Super. Minus skipping a few filler episodes, I had no real problem beyond a little repetitiveness/dragging on.
"But it's bad!! Here's why:"
Ok, doesn't change the fact I enjoyed it.
@@GuzinZueiro First: It's used a few more times. Also, what does it matter?
Second: How is this a flaw?
Third: What?
Fourth: Who cares?
no way it just hit me when he said 5 years ago... 5 YEARS AGO!? where did the time go
I hope dbs comeback bro😭
why the hell does this guy only have 170 veiws and 10 subs
complain about daima aged so bad
Yeah ☠️
I’m a simple guy I just want to enjoy my shows 😭
On bros soul
🗿
@@Tuhwig 😭
Real
Real
I just wanna say now im in OG gang
But seriously though man this is a great video and makes some really good points
I was seriously suprised this was your first upload
Thank you!
I admire the comeback in super, but I mostly dislike the artwork in super for its style, not animation.
Its not their fault but like nyeh I really dont like how for example beams and blasts look.
That's fair. I miss how the blasts used to encompass the entire screen and be so bright, the characters would have that shade of color all over them.
Goku versus vegeta is a good example
@@superkamijacob Yeah Z's ki blasts had so much more oomph to them, as well as texture compared to the single bright colour they are in super.
Okay but why does the art for the TOP look absolutely delicious
ikr? makes me wanna nu-
The grill master
man if they did that while rushed in 4 months these manga arc not done yet better be ground breaking quality
Underrated , im reposting as well as on my server
You said it better than I ever could. I gave up on the super haters
And that’s why I laugh when people say DBS has the worse >animation
powerpoint presentation is crazy 💀
Except Dragon Ball Super has shots like that anyway. A lot of them. In fact there are entire episodes of Goku and Jiren literally doing that.
@@humanexister They have more in betweens. I seriously advise you to go back to Z. Yes, looped animation is used plentifully in all of DB. But DBZ in particular was the only show which did these weird “rebound loops” on every major impact and had weird after images
@@UsernameUsername0000 Having more in-betweens does not equate to better animation. The end result is often the same or worse. For example, in the finale when Jiren and Goku are "trading punches" and both characters stay completely still while the screen shakes and disembodied arms fly around the frame at impossible incomprehensible angles. It looks terrible in motion.
It's funny you mention "impact" because that's another thing DBS does incredibly poorly save for one or two moments. Almost none of the punches or kicks in the show have any weight or impact. It's remarkable.
@@humanexister "Almost none of the punches or kicks in the show have any weight or impact."
Wtf are you talking about
I agree with almost everything(give daima a chance) that you said. Super animation deserves to be praised for its amazing work. Whenever someone says the animation bad for the first 2 arcs, i point out "did you ever stop to think the only reason the animation is bad is because theyre RETELLING THE MOVIES, and the next arcs after is gonna have better animation.
Also something you failed to mention is GT and i kinda respect that
1:21 breakcore?
yeah pretty much (its from a game called ULTRAKILL in case youre curious)
ULTRAKILL
In DBZ, there were always some episodes that used different art styles. For instance, some episodes with Yamcha - his hair would look like Bart Simpson. In other episodes, his hair appeared more stylized. I learned that in every anime, you're going to have episodes with lackluster animation, and some with incredible stuff that inspire me to draw again.
Early dbs before it being for streaming services was just the animators being really rusty after a long time of not doing Dragonball stuff... They had to get back into the swing of things since the 90s...
That's what I thought...
And I thought it still looked pretty good.
thats not how it work
3:50 WHAT?! MAN THAT SUCKS! WHY THO?! I'D RATHER WAIT A FULL MONTH FOR AN EPISODE!
The day everyone on this fandom learns the difference between good animation and good DRAWING
Nah fr
You are really fun to watch bro, Big things coming your way!
Hope so!
4:27 The fight between Zamasu and Vegito was mediocre, not because of the quality, but because the attacks and sound effects felt so underwhelming and killed all tension. Look at Vegito Vs Majin Buu, then Vegito Vs Zamasu, and you'll get my point.
It was still pretty good
But that's the same fight that vegetto became a chocolate and beated Buu with that
Bro tbh I didn't even notice the the bad animations I just absolutely was just like *YEAAAAAH!* and *WHAT YEEEEEES!* 😅 Dude I just liked it
This is what happen when animation is rushed and with not enough time
Copium
@@Hajime790 Obvious rage bait
i scrolled down to read the comments and got jumpscared by your subscriber count, your video quality is (in my opinion) better then some other creators I have seen in similar areas with way more subscribers
😂 thank u
10:21 please don’t use that noise ever again
yo, when we see daima we can simply eat and wait for super 2 to cook up, we just need to wait for toyotaro to finish the food
3:43 Kinda like MAPPA ngl
I agree 100% with you! Your take on this matter is pretty fair and yeah your right why compare a litrial movie to a tv show! And yeah anytime I rewatch DBS I do watch the movies or put it on as background noise