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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2022
- Track day at Laguna Seca, Corvette crashes in front of me at turn 11. I am driving a 2019 Porsche GT3 RS, 991.2. I have Michelin Sport Cup2, N2 spec (Porsche OEM) with 5 full days of track day on them. This was our first session in the morning on a cold day, first few laps in the session. I was a little loose on my tires as well, but the Corvette missed a few apex, finally at turn 11, missed it big and got on the gas too early, and held on the steering for too long without correction. Feel bad...but the damage was not so severe. I hope all is ok with the car; he was unhurt.
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At about 1:44 it did not sound good for the Vette. On the other hand, that flat 6 NA sound at high rpms sure sounds sweet.
amen 🙏
He saw the Porsche comin. It’s hard, but sometimes ya gotta check your ego. I was up against a ZL1 with racing slicks at Spring Mountain recently. Similar HP, but I only had R888s. Had to bow out before calamity ensued.
You may be right. The Vette was a C6 base car. I don't know if it had any mods (doesn't look like it), but It would have no hope of staying in front of the GT3 RS. Maybe a C6 Z06 would put up a battle for a bit (and lose if the drivers were equal) so I find it hard to believe he thought he'd keep the Porsche at bay. (I've tracked a modified C6 Z06 in the past for reference.) I just think he was pushing too hard and his lines in the last few corners were cringeworthy. He missed the apex pretty badly in 9 and 10. Poor guy. He just needs more experience. Getting on the throttle like that out of 11 without correcting quickly just shows he needs track time.
Agreed. He didn't counter steer to the slide and kept the wheel pointed the wrong way. A complete spin was locked in at that point.
Yes, I agree. He was racing a bit through his review mirror. When you start to worry about the guy behind you, you're better off letting him go by.
That's near world's best 6cyl if not is, beautiful machine.
Corvette’s lines were not horrible, just sloppy The double apex on turn 2 has at least 3 different ways to approach it, all effective. Turn 3 has the off camber section, which makes the exit a bit touchy. He went wide on 9, the right line. Of all the turns to crash on, 11? You were smart hanging back with the gravel he was kicking up.
Well, he missed almost all apexes. On the double apex, correct, some people don’t take it as a double apex but in a real race you do want to close the inside line.
@@kevin1244 he saw you in his rear view. That track is second to Sonoma for being unforgiving. You can drive it beyond the cars ability but not beyond the driver. The miss on turn 4 was particularly bad, he should have pointed you by.
@@kevin1244
What counts as missing? They were fairly close most of the time
Yeah took another look, wasn't their first time on track but they did miss the apex by a lot at least twice.
@@zec.4491 “fairly close” unfortunately does not cut it when driving on a track. It basically means the driver is turning either early, late, or not enough and there are consequences to each. It also means the driver is focused right in front of him as opposed to looking out. Eventually in that last turn, he was way off the apex; which at the speed he was driving; he should not have crashed, it was not that fast. But he was not looking out, which was why he was way off apex in the first place, and drove himself right into the barriers.
@@kevin1244
Yeah you can clearly see he's braking hard and late, and turning in late as well. Gotta remember not everyone is as experienced as you on track. Good job staying away and hope he can fix his car soon to get more practice in.
This is the problem when people start looking too much in the rear view mirror. He can clearly drive but he is focusing on the driver behind not driving. When checking mirror glance don't stare.
Bad things do happen. Felt bad for the guy.
Man that guy in the corvette was all over the track. What group was this? Looks like he should have been in novice
He was all over the place. I did not see him hitting one apex correctly. I stayed way back until turn 9, 10, 11, got closer quickly preparing to pass on the straight after turn 11. Unfortunately he hit the wall. Both him and his passenger were ok, thank goodness.
@@kevin1244 He was also dipping a tire on a few apexes, kicking up gravel. I cringed and feel bad for the front of your car. I have a Miami Blue .2 RS as well. We've probably met at the track at some point.
@@FourT6and22 I stayed back far enough. Gravel did not hit me badly. I knew the chances of him going off at some point was high. So, I was very cautious as you can tell from the lap time.
His etiquette was bad but he was sending it
@@kevin1244 That's all you have to do. Give him space. If a driver like that isn't letting you pass and you they are driving like they are being pressured but won't let you pass then you have a chat with them after the session and just ask them to let you pass next time. If they don't oblige have a chat with the group director. Some guys drive from Ego. It seems you felt like that is what he was doing. You did all the right things and you drove excellently. He is the one that made the mistake. You did not, but his mistake doesn't mean he isn't a good driver. We are always learning on the track. We are always learning others driving capabilities and habits. It's worse when you are in a race group door to door and they are driving worse than this.
I’d be pissed if that dude in front of me kept kicking rocks and dirt up on my GT3
exactly my thoughts
Then don't race. Simple as that. Shit happens on the track all the time and dirt and rocks kicking up is the least of your worries. I have well over 100 track days under my belt and I've seen some terrible things happen on the track and, unfortunately, it's the risk you have to be willing to take.
Corvette: "hit the dirt, hit the apex!"
I assume by everyone in the comments critiquing the hell out of the guys’ driving skills this track day was supposed to be for experienced racers, yes? Not just some Joe Schmo off the street who got the day off and decided to see what his Vette could do
No. There was novice, intermediate, point-by advanced, open pass advanced
Seems like he was “driving in his rear view mirror” and determined to hold u off. Sometimes u just have to know when to say when. He should have dialed it back at let u pass after 2B.
Definitely should’ve let me pass. The full story is I was working with one of my friends to bring him up to speed on his racing line. I was driving behind his car for a while to observe his racing lines first. The Corvette was behind me. I let him go and told my friend to let him go too. Then I passed my buddy to show him the correct racing lines for a lap leading him, he following me. The Corvette was in front while I was doing lead/follow. Once the lap completed (start of this video), I waived my buddy that I would just go a little faster to enjoy my session a little too. You can see Corvette 3-4s ahead of me but I caught up at the end of the straight. In the double apex he went wide on the first apex; I thought he was letting me go; but when I looked out I figured he did not even see me coming to pass him, so I backed off, he closed on the second apex (thanks god I did not go for the pass; he would have clipped me). Then after the double apex, I figure he saw me in his rear view mirror, but was perhaps intent to go faster than I was. So, I backed off until turn 9-11 that I got closer to pass him in the straight with no drama…but drama was waiting for him right there and then. Well…
I’m no expert but seems the guy in the vette was just pushing a little too hard coming out of this corner and did so so bad that he didn’t have the room to correct this mistake. Was that tire marks coming from his car coming outta turn 3 the right hander? Maybe I am seeing things but if that was just made me think he was running not focusing on the track and his cars limits.
More coaching required for the z06 driver his line , braking was sloppy if he was trying to find out a new line or getting to know the track the correct thing to do is let traffic by. Sucks to be in that situation. Good thing no one else was involved.
uuuf. I heard the crunch after you passed him!
Terrible sound, I know. Unfortunate
That poor guy I think he had the wrong tires and too much inflation and then he got on the throttle way too early! C5's were known for being tail happy thank you for the video
Oh, this is a new theory about tire pressure. Other than his erratic driving; tires could have contributed. I agree.
C6 my guy
The more I watch, the more problems I see with this guy’s driving. 1) missing apexes 2) let’s brakes go way before apex, no trail braking, 3) he is very late, then jerky steering into the corner and way late, that’s why he throws gravel sometimes 4) comes off brakes very early, does not do any weight management via his brakes, 5) he may be coasting between brake and gas or 6) May be getting on the gas too early before the apex. Don’t know…he should have been in the novice group. On the track, my instincts based on his driving told me to stay back. Now, it’s analytical thinking telling me good thing I stayed back
Vette definently had a green driver (or one that doesn't listen and learn). In my first watch, I too could see he wasn't good but couldn't put my finger on the clues until watching again after reading your comment above. The lack of trail braking you mention is a great catch. It wasn't once that he failed to trail brake, it was every corner. I'll look for that on track from now on to avoid greenies. Also, he was way to abrupt on his turn-ins. I wonder if he was intentionally trying to produce some oversteer going into the corners? That might also have been what caused his issue on turn 11 on hitting the throttle hard trying to do some movie driving with some power oversteer for the "benefit" of showing off to the passenger.
@@AX-Driver there may have been an element of show off; but I doubt he could handle any oversteer at all. As I mentioned, the oversteer that caused the crash was minimal, yet he lost it.
Great analysis- he or she was wide and hot coming in, too stabby on the brakes, then way too pronounced of a turn in move for no reason. Smooth is fast- this driver would benefit from about 20 laps in a Corolla to learn that lesson.
I hope that You have ppf on the front of Your car!!
I do!
GT3 is like.. "get out of my way"...
😀
Following the vette you knocked off about 3 seconds versus the previous lap based on your in-car metrics….
I wrote the full story somewhere in the comments; I was helping a friend with lead/follow. On this lap I decided to take for fun for me. I am not the fastest, all time best is 1:36 in a 600LT Spider on Trofeo R. This car has Cup2 N spec, not as good as Trofeo R. My best on these tires is 1:39 in the Porsche. I think it can go 1:35 on Cup 2 R spec or similar. I have Manthey Stage 5 on the car now. Cannot wait to get out there with the new set up
@@kevin1244 - you seemed very measured in following the vette. No doubt there were seconds left in reserve.
@@motorgearhead thank you Sir!
I not surprised I've seen that happen a few times there. In the case of the Corvette too much throttle. IMO the Vetts torque his too high for the average driver, I've owned a C6 Z06 and yes I've been on that track .
I agree. I have seen a few…you would imagine on the slowest turn of the track with so much room on the right side; you would risk anything there. In this case though, this driver’s braking zones, racing lines, and throttle zones are all messed up and inconsistent. He needs to slow down and improve on those aspects first. I think he gets on throttle before the apex in all turns. Turn 11 became his trauma finally. Feels horrible seeing it though. I hope he is back in the game and more careful. On this lap, because I wanted to keep distance; I am late on throttle for every turn.
@@kevin1244 - Looking at his wheels he also doesn't seem to really counter steer.
@@i-barg not at all, he oversteered to the wall
“Finally he’s out of the way!”
He would have been even if not crashed; I would have passed him in the straight anyways…patience ran out in turns 9 and 10 already
Knew that was where he would do it
He was waaaaay off apex
He needs more time on the sim. He clearly does not understand the fastest / saftest way around that track.
This was last year. Hopefully he did not give up; back on the track and getting better
Should have pointed by on the very first turn of the video. I’ll never understand why some drivers want to have a faster car in their mirrors for laps on end. That guy really needed to follow a better driver for a few laps and learn the line.
Funny you mention it. I was leading a friend in this session; I gave the corvette here a point by as we were going slower during lead /follow. After a few laps leading, I decided to have fun and go faster, ended up behind him. After his crash, I came out as the track closed. So never got to my lap times that are usually around 1:39-1:41. I am not the fastest driver by any stretch of imagination but he should have let me pass. Maybe he would not have crashed either.
That guy was a mess from the beginning of the video. Dropping a wheel several times, missing the apex a bunch, and romping on the power like it's an on off switch. He really needed some good instruction with that car or this is unfortunately what happens.
As unfortunate as it is; that’s the truth.
Looks like he hit the brakes on the turn.
Perhaps…
I thought he was giving you a point-by mid corner. 😅
Me too, he would have clipped me if I had taken it…I don’t think he was aware
It's never nice to see that but it is another case of driving way more powerful cars than having skills to handle. Those corners speeds are way slower than what any decent amateur would do in any of those two cars. Sadly it resulted in crash from simple oversteer on exit of the corner which comes to basic car control .
I don’t know if you track at Laguna Seca or not; but generally 1:44-1:45 is intermediate level at this track. So the corner speeds are not “way slow”, sort of decent. But of course there is room for error otherwise the Vette would have crashed earlier. I generally drive in advanced, open pass (which was this session); in an equal car as mine with same set up and tire conditions; the lap times are 1:37-1:41. My best of all time at this track is 1:36; I have seen faster drivers than me in a similar car doing 1:34. Note that a 996 or 997 Cup car used to do 1:31-1:33 with slicks. So, again, these lap times are decent but this guy should have been in intermediate or novice group gives his 1:45 here was full of errors.
Yep, that was just a matter of time. He was never once on the correct line.
Too much throttle when cornering
I cannot tell exactly, but I think he got on throttle before hitting the apex, almost every turn. Big no no.
Fully expected him to crash on any of the previous corners, not the last...
Unfortunate, isn’t it. Track driving is and could be fun for everyone who likes driving. But like anything else, must start slow, systematic, and with patience to learn track driving vs street driving. Guys must put their egos back at home; learn the art, before pushing the pedal too far down. A fast car does not translate to a fast driver on a track/ race circuit. As the saying goes; “slower” in the morning is the “faster” in the afternoon!
Am i the only one wondering what happened to traction control? That would have prevented it
Good point! I turn off mine; perhaps he turned off his too?
You mean your right foot?
@@codymoe4986 🤣
probably had it in track mode which means less nanny help.
This is what you get from driving in your mirrors and not letting the faster car pass. How was that guy signed off to solo???
that's exactly how npc cars in gran turismo 3 would spin in that corner
Incredible how realistic these simulators are! Yes, I play with the simulator as well. Very close to reality.
Press Y to rewind, wait oh shit....
Unfortunate.
Yep. It was.
Novice driver who confused track day with race. It looked like he was driving with his mirrors and couldnt handle the pressure of you being on his tail. The corvette, although a great car, is a terrible first track day car for a new guy. Just too much power for the level of skill.
That Corvette needed a governor set at 75mph cuz he couldn't handle it any faster than that!
Haha, would not have helped him when he was turning at 40mph!
Corvette driver was too focused on your driving. He was checking his mirror too much in such a high powered car on a pretty fast track.
He should have let me pass in that first turn when I caught up with him.
Vette driver was looking in mirror. Instead of taking care of business. Should have traction control on track mode. Would have saved him.
corvette was one of those guy who doesnt know his limit.
I think people come to the track to push their limits; but the question is how far and how quickly you would push it. Also, what I do, I push my limit in specific sections of the track at a time. Firstly I get faster in that specific section, secondly the skills gained from that specific section automatically translates to other parts in time.
@@kevin1244 well the corvette should let him pass. I know when im at the track, when someone is faster than me i would let them pass. The best i have ever bought for my car was a data acquisition, I can see where and what i need to work on.
Guy crashes his car as you set your best lap time.
I should have been in 1:41-1:40 easily; had to slow down significantly throughout the track for that lap. Even this lap would have been better by 1sec as you can see in the last turn before the crash, it was 1.14s in the green. The crash distracted me and the entire 1s vanished right there!
The Porsche had a much better entry and exit in the corners vs the Corvette.
🙏
Silver Vette should have given blue car a point-by. He ended up overdriving his abilities
I think so. He was so erratic, I just stayed back waiting for a safe straight to pass which was ironically right after this turn
The corvette driver wasn't a horrible driver. Just an over driver. He didn't correct the slide hard enough or fast enough. Also sounds like he got on throttle instead of just going 2 feet in right away.. If he would have put 2 feet in right away he would have went straight down the track.
He was driving off race lines; somewhat erratic steering responses…should not have been in the open pass, advanced group. I agree, would have taken very little to correct the slide as it wasn’t a real slide really. I think he got on the gas while still turning steering wheel to the turn vs unwinding at that point. If he had started unwinding (track out), could have been on the gas even more aggressively with no issues. Any tiny loosening of the rear would have been corrected anyways
@@kevin1244 His line wasn't bad at all. First turn he did a single late apex by driving around the outside, still hit his apex on exit. That is a secondary driving line. Going into the cork he could have entered further from the left, but not a big deal. He slowed down properly and made the apex properly. He missed the apex on the last turn where he slid. He was hustling the car and driving well. He was however driving over his head a tad and that is what caught him. Sadly it was in a bad place to spin. Sometimes you have to push yourself to learn. He got bit like many drivers do, but he wasn't a bad driver.. I've been around bad drivers..He is completely fine in an open pass group. Hopefully he will learn from this situation and grow.
@@Megachad The guy missed almost every apex on the track? He stabbed his brakes when the car was off balance multiple times? His turn ins were jerky and unpredictable? He went into the dirt twice? What video did you watch a month ago.. the guy clearly has trouble controlling the car. He is a bad driver.
@@beefwhiskers I am a positive response person.. Or I could be your critic.. dropping wheels into the outside edge of a corner isn't going into the dirt. He was pushing his limits. Which is why we are at the track. You should try it sometime. Also, you are over slowing your car. Learn what trail braking is and utilize it to the absolute limit. I could teach you what that means at the track sometime if you come out this way.
@@Megachad he wasn’t even going into the turns that fast and was still blowing the apexes, I’m not exactly sure why you’re defending it but it’s not necessary. Stabbing your brakes and being jerky on turn in are like the first two things you learn not to do. It’s fine that he’s bad, it’s part of learning. He’s lucky he didn’t get hurt.
Horrible lines on that silver Bette.
I ran my C5R-427 at Road Atlanta `20 events. WTF is with that C5 driver!
He was distracted by me and his passenger. If I recall; I think his girlfriend was in the passenger seat. But I am not certain.
@@kevin1244 I have seen a couple of crashes at Road Atlanta, but that was strange.
@@Pmtd1234 if you read my analysis that I just posted, I think I am spot on. Regardless of why and how it happened, it’s a shame. I felt terrible. A crash like this stains your brain for some time. I don’t mean mine, but his mind.
Nice cg
this guy would have made me extremely pissed off... throwing all the sand into the intake of the one driving behind. no line... driving all over the place like an idiot! Nice that he parked his car in the wall. he can't drive at all!
Not sure if I can wish anyone bad fortune; like what happened to this guy. I was not happy about him throwing rocks at me…so I kept distance; sometimes had to coast.
Skill issue. A bone stock S2000 can do those lap times.
Agreed
Looked like he was all over the place (Fast) but all over and be sure to thank him for the rock chip baptism !!
Well, consistency and not being all over the place are part of being fast. But all of us are in need of development somewhere.
I got some rock showering but both the car and the windshield have protection films on them.
@@kevin1244 Your line of approach felt correct and it appeared that he was a bit wide most of the time. Glad your front end has protection!
That wasn’t even remotely fast at all. Dude in the camera car was barely even on the gas at all that entire lap sitting behind that boomer. Every single apex was missed, guy would turn in way too late and somehow still clip the dirt. And then not use the whole track at all on other sections. Seriously one of the worst drivers I’ve ever seen, that somehow found his way into a nice C6 Vette. I can’t make it make sense…
@@msport_erick I usually do 1:39-1:41, personal best 1:36. So, he was not terribly slow, but certainly a lot left out due to poor racing lines and erratic steering response. Based on my experience, erratic steering response is usually due to not looking out far enough. I am certain if he were looking out far, he could have corrected the really tiny slide that he experienced.
@@kevin1244 the car is doing all the work for him then
They are known for crashing
go home
A Z06 would have left that 911 in the dust.
Well, officially I did not beat this Corvette either. He beat himself. Doubt a Z06 would have helped!
@@kevin1244 As you well know the Z06 handles better and then there’s more HP too so I can only assume it would have planted better and left you in the straits. I race a C5 Z06 with 600 HP and I don’t have many problems with the 911’s except for the extremely modified ones.
@@craigthescott5074 yes, I do understand. Sorry about my sarcasm. Of course a Z06 in the hands of the right driver beats my car and I can attest I am not the fastest guy on the track. But he was so far off the apex in that last turn and he could not handle the little sideways he experienced; I doubt any car would have helped him.
@@craigthescott5074 just look at the front wheels when he lost control; almost straight to the wall that hit…it was not head on only because the car swung around
@@craigthescott5074 As someone that has owned a C7 Z06, the 911 GT cars are absolute track monsters. On paper it does not look like it but imo they have perfect balance if you know how to extract the most out of them.
......just ran out of talent right there
Maybe got distracted. He had a passenger. Who knows? I felt so bad for the longest time thinking if I pressured him…but then I kept a good distance until getting ready to pass
Never had any to begin with
@@kevin1244 You were not pressuring him. You were never very close. Besides, while a tough lesson, one of my first instructors tought me that on a race track that pressure is something you do to yourself. There will always be cars around. Until you can tame your own monster known as pressure, you cannot be a good driver.
@@AX-Driver the more I watched; the more I am convinced I did not pressure him. I kept a good distance and was patient. If he had not crashed; I would have passed him in the straight which would have been with no drama.
The corvette driver had better lines throughout the lap and fucked up the last corner. It happens to all of us when you pushing. I only saw him miss one apex and fucked up the last corner. He will be back and still will be pushing. Good on him for wringing the neck out of that thing!
Are you blind?
@@msport_erick I mean, the guy was nowhere near the worst I've seen, but he definitely needs more experience before pushing like that.
We must of been watching different videos. He was off line for almost everything but the corkscrew.
Both are low class drivers for sure. Brake stoppers never get good times.
couch /keyboard hero comment
Not bad graphics for a video game
That’s why I posted!
That’s what happens when you don’t let a gt3 rs pass