How Good Was Icy Manipulator, Actually? | The Card That Went from Staple to Bulk Overnight
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2024
- #mtg #magicthegathering
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Icy Manipulator was once so good that it had to be banned in Magic: the Gathering. These days, it doesn't look quite as impressive. In this video, I explain what made Icy Manipulator so good during Magic's early competitive years.
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A clarification for what I say around 5:59:
I didn't mean all tapped creatures didn't do combat damage, just blockers. That weird and unintuitive rule is exactl why they got rid of it a few years later!
can anyone tell me, does this mean prior to sixth edition, if you blocked with a creature and in response to declaring blocks, you tapped the creature to activate an ability or they tapped your creature with manipulator it would no longer do combat damage? Yet would still recieve damage
@@Gunnarr123abc That's exactly what that meant. Tapped blockers did no damage. It's why regeneration had tapping creatures as part of its cost.
There was a similar rule for quite a while where an artifact (and only artifacts) lost their static abilities once tapped by any means.
Is the tap and things don't work a thing a all now? Getting back into magic so don't know all the changes @DracoSuave
@@certanmike No, static abilities remain on, tapped blockers can do damage, and so on
@@certanmike It's not a thing anymore. There are a handful artifacts that only work if they are untapped, but they have to have the text in the text box.
been loving this series! false swipe created a template so good it would be foolish to NOT use it for your competitive game of choice, and with your eye form competitive history you absolutely ought to be the one using it for MTG!
Wholeheartedly agree, Nizzahon is uniquely qualified to do this series justice given how much research he's done for his other videos. Keep it going!
Glad to know I wasn't the only one who noticed. But I agree. Its a good template and its a completely separate game. But this tells me our boy Nizz likes pokemon which is another win in my book! LOL
@@Shivan_16 In the Serra Angel video, he specifically calls out being inspired by FSG.
Loving this series and the mtg history you bring to it! Hypnotic next week should be great!
It would be a bit apples and oranges but would be cool to see the different cards in this series compared to each other
I remember Royal Assassin being a high dollar card in the 1995 timeframe, just because of the combo with Icy (having been reprinted in Ice Age that summer).
Everyone else: Just an orb.
Amy Weber: I call it bone clank.
I've always loved her extremely shiny and occasionally unhinged art style.
@@jonothanthrace1530 I like some of her art, I really did NOT like that version of Icy.
Numbers agree with me
This card will be forever ingrained in my memory because of a conversation I had with a friend while playing the game back in the old days.
"Icy Manipulator."
"Yeah? Well I see a backstabbing liar who calls himself my friend."
"?????"
"Just kidding."
Well, he was manipulating you with his icy stare lol
Should be mentioned that icy manipulator has really different art in all incarnations. Always loved how vague it is and how it “works” in the game.
It’s a manipulator. It manipulates. What else do you want from us?
I play a lot of Old School 93/94 and it’s a solid staple in that format. And that format uses the modern rules regarding tapped creatures and artifacts.
I’ve seem quite a number of people die to an Icy tapping their City of Brass.
I remember Icy trading for around $8 back in Ice Age days. It was one of the chase cards for sure.
And that was the price for the reprint. The ABU ones were going for even more.
I ADORE this new series! Crossing my fingers it does well enough to stick around.
Icy was definitely a boogeyman card back in the day. If your opponent stuck one, your reaction was, "Well, I'm behind now. How do I answer this"
that's how I assess almost every play
During the time when 99% of players were casual and running completely untuned lists and the serious players were almost all running City Of Brass. In Europe in 1994 they handled Icy with no problem. But American players mostly liked to play combo and extreme aggro, and neither played very defensively (ignoring Shatter, Divine Offering, Disenchant, etc. ) so Icy was able to stick often and do stuff.
I actually never knew Icy Manipulator was in the initial sets, I had always thought it debuted in Ice Age!
I mean, c'mon, that does make some sense, right? xD
That was the Bone Crank that debuted in Ice Age ;)
I also thought it was from Ice Age. I don't think we can be blamed for that ^^
I am absolutely convinced that it debuted in Ice Age and the factual evidence in this video/online, proving otherwise, won’t deter my false beliefs!
the Bone Crank version *is* absolutely iconic.
The Ice Age reprint was a really really big deal. That card was pricey before that reprint and it had been out of print since 1993--it was hard to find copies given that there were just 13500 of each Beta uncommon and 59,000 of each Unlimited Uncommon ever printed.
Hi Nizza,
You could consider looking at current play patterns in 93/94 and premodern Magic formats for these older cards to get an idea about powerlevel in its natural surroundings from today’s perspective.
I love this series quite a lot. It’s nostalgic and informative, reminding me of my early days in Magic but also teaching me things I didn’t know in my youth. Plus, the explanation of how the game has changed is really intelligent, so thank you for that! I hope you’re able to continue it
I've played Magic since 94, and can confirm, "Icy" as it was known, was one of the highest price, most powerful and most desired cards.
Yeah, I wish I sold them before they dropped down to $1 lol
For an uncommon OOP, it was worth a lot of money. A lot of people just wanted to own one, especially if they started Revised or afterward, because of the OG Doug Shuler art. That desire continued well into Ice Age when the uncommon was like 15 bucks or so. Ironically no one was running 4x in their tournament deck.
Icy just won games. Nothing fancy.
Ah, the old "bone crank".
I briefly had a group that played commander '95 (cards legal up to 1995, same ban list), and Icy Manipulator, I can tell you, is insane.
Great format if you ask me. As someone who began playing during the last days of Revised and for whom the release of Ice Age was THE big event, I can tell that buying a couple of starter and booster packs at my LGS and then late in the day back at home opening this reprint in a starter was quite a moment.
I remember having this in hand, and noticing my opponent had only one Blue Source of Mana on the board, for his Multi color deck. _(One which I later learned was Emerkul eldrazi finisher)_
I remember getting Icy Manipulator down, and locking that Island down for the better part of Ten turns.
Long enough to use it to first survive, then stall the turn needed against the 15 mana Eldrazi...
Which I used against him by copying with my various copy creature's.
In Two player games, even when in EDH, this is not to be underestimated.
I am loving this new series! I started playing during Revised while I was in Elem School.
Love hearing about these older formats and rules.
It’s really interesting all the different lenses that you can view magic history through. This reminds me of the deep dives into the tribal decks over magics history.
As someone who started playing during unlimited, I’m loving this series. It’s like a trip down memory lane.
I never got to play with Icy in its heyday, but I had fun with it in Dominaria Remastered draft, especially when I realized it could effectively shut down an opposing Maze of Ith for one mana per turn. I didn't even think about how much it must have messed up combat back when tapped blockers didn't deal damage.
Loving this series! Old, classic iconic cards don't get enough love in modern Magic. I'd love to see you continue on from Serra Angel to the other original "big deal" creatures: Force of Nature, Mahamoti Djinn, Shivan Dragon, and Sengir Vampire.
The modern design focus on hyper efficiency has really ruined a lot of older cards by nature of such a different design philosophy back the the day.
A lot of these inefficient/wacky cards were because Richard Garriot made a huge point of trying to stop power creep by making sure any "big" card was inefficient OR had an inherent drawback
@@RocKM001 Flavor was a big deal, too, back then, and what something that might be easy to use in a D&D campaign became clunky in the confines of Magic rules and it's checks and balances. Nowadays, current game design doesn't think of flavor or story and they want to circumvent the very core of spellcasting: mana costs and the "one land per turn". A dinosaur such as myself can't keep up.
@@mikenahmias7102 Are you ready for the free counterspells lmfao
I'm really enjoying this series and it's fascinating to see why certain cards were super powerful back in the day. I hope you continue with it!
Great series! You should do the cards that were left out too, like Zuran Orb.
I'm glad you include the limited data. I had fun playing icy in a DMR draft for some sneaky wins
You are the best at these deep dives into the history of competitive magic. I'm really enjoying this new series!
Well covered. The change in power was most definitely 6th edition rules changes in regard to continuous artifacts. Cards like Meekstone, Winter Orb and Howling mine are so good when they only work one sided!
Love this new series.... a lot of the decks back in the day were the most interesting and the most Johnny friendly for deck building.
The old design philosophy of trying to stop power creep by having powerful cards inherent disadvantages meant you always had to juggle efficiency and effect in so many ways compare to modern designs of hyper efficiency basically destroying a lot of this variety.
Seeing a lot of "top cards" back in the day working wonders on these older decks is a treat to see how much folks broke down the game's various metas to overcome the inherent inefficiency design.
Fun interactions with continuous artifacts aside, it was invaluable for control back then. There was no efficient way to flood the board in that era with creature tokens, and the "Sligh" archetype hadn't developed yet. So aggro usually had to work with mid-sized to large creatures like Ernham and Juzam. Being able to lock down your opponent's best threat every turn meant it was easier to get them to over-commit to filling the board, and in turn, made sweepers like Wrath more efficient.
By "back then" what do you mean? Do you mean Type 2 in 1996?
If someone ran Icy main board and the other guy was running a tuned aggro deck like RG, mono black, mono white, mono red, etc. they got mowed down if they were running Icy, if the aggro deck was built and curved correctly. By the time you cast Icy you were already at like 7 life once the Icy came down and could tap a creature, putting you in range for Drain Life, Fireball, 2x Bolt, Armageddon and Hurricane. The OG list for The Deck ran Jayemdae Tome and Disrupting Scepters. No Icys.
@@Rorschachqp Oh, yeah. "Back then" was 1994-1995, or Pre-Ice Age. Once the early Necro/aggro decks hit the scene in 1996, the Icy was a paperweight.
Portland had a Control-Heavy meta during my first few years of Magic.
@@BCWasbrough Sounds great, always nice talking shop with old skool. 😄
I opened 2 of these in my dominaria prerelease. They carried me to first place.
Loving this serie! It brings me so found memories! Thank you very much! Please keep doing this!
I only got to "Hi everyone!..." and smashed that Like button so fast. We need more of these!
I hope this series sticks around, it's really lovely.
This video was excellent. I would love to see more like this. Definitely checking out the mog fanatic video too.
I loved Icy Manipulator. All of the various rules changes killed all the best uses for it, but one of the biggest uses for it was that you could get much more value out of Wrath of God as Icy Manipulator caused the opponent to have to commit more creatures to the board to try and get damage through.
Great video and a nice trip down memory lane. Thanks!
Great video. Don't get rid of the ending song! It's such a banger
This new series is killer. I find the history of Magic pretty interesting and the use of tournament data with deck lists is really cool to see. The down side of said tournament data and deck lists is picturing all of those unsleeved dual lands and other high dollar cards getting beat to shit during game play
Yes, How Good Actually, is a GREAT template for videos. You just discovered an source of videos that will last for years. You'd be stupid not to make this a regular episode for your channel
This is a beautiful series, thank you
Absolutely loving this new series!
Dang, I remembered tapping Continuous Artifacts used to shut them off but I didn't know it turned off Poly Artifacts too, or that tapping blockers negated their combat damage. Early Magic rules were wild.
The rule was basically "Tapped artifacts have no game text." You could disable your Mana Crypt upkeep trigger by tapping it with Icy, for example. You couldn't tap it for mana because you couldn't use abilities of cards with pending costs (either ETB or upkeep ones) before you paid the cost, but if you could tap it in another way, or remove it, you could get out of potentially taking three damage. You could also, for example, eat it with Atog or Smokestack before you had to deal with the upkeep trigger as well, since upkeep effects were not "At the beginning of your upkeep, deal with this" but rather "At some point of your choosing during your upkeep, deal with this. Do it whenever you want but you just can't leave your upkeep without dealing with this."
And yet both Basalt Monolith and Mana Vault still had abilities that only functioned when tapped.
@@deeterful You know, I never thought of that! They're definitely exceptions because it wasn't just continuous artifacts that shut off when tapped. You couldn't use your Wooden Sphere or Throne of Bone when they were tapped.
Loving this series!
Great video! ❤
this series rocks! keep on going!
This is a fun idea. Other cards that come to mind might be Black Vise and Ivory Tower.
Just wanted to say that, this dive into individual cards has a being amazing and really hope you continue and love content.
Any thoughts on draft vid for theros as recently release in premier draft.
Keep up the great content
I recently built a Hylda of the Icy Crown EDH deck, and it seriously broke my heart to cut Icy since it's such a flavorful and personally nostalgic addition. It's just so outclassed now.
Great series. I love feeling like a boomer with these.
It's legit amazing that Icy Manip was in *aggro decks* in the 90s! The game has changed so much
I like this keep doing this series!
Keep it up!
Great video series
Loving this new deep dive series.
Awesome series, I reaaaaaally hope it’s there to stay
I really like this series. Hope to see more of it. 🙂
Great video!
Man, I wasn't looking at the screen as you said what the two options were. I thought you said "Frozen Orb" (What I remembered Winter Orb to be called) not "Zuran Orb".
Winter Orb was awesome.
Some of the best art ever imo. I had a signed Beta Icy Manipulator and sold it for 50 over 20yrs ago. All those dark border early era cards just look so dammnnnn good!!!
That Ice Age art and flavor text will always be my favorite version of the card.
I had totally forgotten the "no damage" rules.
Was this in effect during revised?
Pretty sure I remember some of the Owling Mine decks circa 2005 and 2006 ran some copies of Icy as additional land denial and as a way to shut off the Howline Mine
Wizard's should consider printing a new version with additional effects that replicate the pre rules change behavior. Curious if that card would be competitive in today's constructed formats.
To clarify and correct what you said at 9:59 (“in 1995, with the creation of Type I and Type II…”), the first Block Constructed Pro Tour was held not “that same year” but in 1996, and also “only cards from the three sets in Ice Age block were legal” in the event is not quite right, as Homelands was not yet included in the block and only Ice Age and Alliances were allowed at that PT, which is why the format was sometimes called “ALICE”. Homelands got retroactively added to Ice Age block in 1997 and then removed when Coldsnap was printed.
Just commenting to say I've been loving these new vids the deck retrospectives were great but as someone who doesn't actually play I find this one-card focus works better for me lol
Good series!
Legendary card 😍 I am always tempted to put it in some commander deck
Someone else on this board mentioned icy going for $8. When I started playing in early 96, icy was going for $15 in my area at least. I always liked the Amy Weber "bone crank" art the best. Others here seem to as well. Awesome video series, keep up the great work!!
$8 was for the Ice Age reprint. The ABU versions were still $15 +.
@deeterful ABU was even higher than $15. I have Inquest Guides from back then showing icy's from ice age going for $15. I was talking about the ice age version.
@@christopherfernandez8153 Damn! my memory of those days isn't what it used to be, I'm old.
When magic was a lot slower, the combo was Wrath of God/Icy Manipulator. If you could Wrath and put the manipulator down, you could tap/neutralize and creature they played, thus, forcing them to put 2 creatures down in order to damage you, at which point, you wrath again killing 2 of their creatures. I’m sure there are other combos, but that was a very good one from Magic’s early days.
I want this series to continue!!!!
when i was playing standard in 2019, I didnt have the money to fully build esper hero, and so when i was building my deck, i put a 1 of icy manipulator in the sideboard so i could tap down crackling drake since it was such a good card at the time
I had a friend who ran icy and winter orb. It was a race to get my angels out before he could kismet lock me.
I really enjoy the series although the algorithm never showed me it. I had to search for it!
I like the series … but more than the concept, it’s the fact that Nizzahon will always execute any concept well! I had no idea why Icy manipulator was so revered, but when I think about turning off winter orb for me and turning off howling mine for you … ya it sounds busted 😂
This was when you needed to attack with creatures who didn’t also have six triggered abilities built in. They cast a spirit of the night, you tap it down every turn for one mana.
Even to this day, it remains a huge powerhouse in Limited, though. Being able to flexibly shut down the opponent's best attacker or blocker (and double up when appropriate) and fit into any deck makes it an easy first pick in most instances where there isn't a rare megabomb in the pack.
Oh my god royal assassin is literally my favorite card
if they made this card to reflect how it used to run they would have to make the ability strip other permanents of their abilities or a creature's ability to deal combat damage. it would be cool to have a stifle on a stick effect for stifle naught decks
Back then, you also used to mess with your opponent's mind, bc if they played multi colored, you could make them guess which land you were going to tap. They might respond by tapping a land before you made your choice and if they couldn't use that mana, take one due to mana burn, which I know doesn't exist anymore. But fun little tricks.
How good was Thicket Basilisk + Lure actually?
I don't know if it was competitive, but it was certainly a lot of fun.
Easier said than done, and your opponent 100% knew what you were doing when the Basilisk came out, so they had a turn to prepare/hold back.
I like this series :)
The O.G. art was so great.
I like this series.
Even now, things that worked beautifully with it are just too easily removed. Royal assassin and Nettling Imp are easily destroyed.
Royal Assassin + Icy Manipulator. Old school tech.
Thing about the Icy,
NO one likes the art for it EXCEPT the Douglas Shular version.
Most of us competitive players from 1994 are still trying to figure out how Dolan got to the Final let alone win with such an unfocused deck. His opponent Bertrand Lestree had an excellent deck. The Final is well documented as Dolan just getting insane opening hands over and over.
Wow, I had no idea Icy Manipulator was that versatile back in the day!
versatile yes....but still not that good.
@@WCPFISH Did you even watch the video? It won the first two world championships and had to be restricted until a rules change made it obsolete
WotC should start printing cards that let older staples like Icy be competitive again, something like this:
Soldevi Artificer
2UW
Creature - Human Artificer
1/4
When Soldevi Artificer enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a card named Icy Manipulator and put it onto the battlefield.
Tapped artifacts lose all abilities
Tapped blocking creatures deal no combat damage
Ward 2
I'm guessing this only applied to tapped defending creatures?
Icy disrupted combat wonderfully. Against it, an attacker had to assume their best creature would get tapped. Then the blocking team would often have favorable matchups.
The first chase card i ever craved in 94.
Winter Orb + icy manipulator = win game
I wonder what stats it would have to have to be playable. 3 cmc to enter (or even 2) and only tap to activate?
12:11 Surely you're talking about tapped *blocking* creatures
That's basically a good test for me; If a limited format can get it so Icy Manipulator has an above average win rate, it's probably one I'll enjoy playing. It's not a fast, 60-card format type card, and 4-mana would be too much to not add to the board in a lot of recent limited environments. But I can see the Manipulator being decent in Thunder Junction; Not great, but I don't think it ever will be "great" again.
Only have 1 thing to say.
Hilda Of The Icy Crown.
The history of Icy Manipulator on the Restricted list...the Restricted List was introduced in January 1994 with cards like Dingus Egg. Gauntlet Of Might, Ali From Cairo and Rukh Egg along with Icy Manipulator. Two months later Icy Manipulator was unrestricted because it simply wasn't that strong. The next month after that, Dingus Egg and Gauntlet Of Might were unrestricted while Ali was still there...I'm guessing Rukh Egg errata'ed off the list.
So basically it was the first card to ever come off the Restricted List to due not being powerful enough. March 1994, way before 6th Edition.
It's an extremely flexible card that costs a bit too much mana as 4 mana effects like Wrath Of God, Mind Twist, Armageddon, etc. were the norm. You watch people play old school just as you see all of these old decklists...no one plays 4 of this card. 3x mainboard is somewhat excessive. One or two? Maybe if the card pool is shallow, as it was in 1996 Type 2. The only 4x is the one deck that combo's well with expensive artifacts, Baxter's Titania's Song.
Usually, Icy Manipulator slows the opponent down if it doesn't slow you down first. It's not as good as say...Jayemdae Tome. It never is a card that wins you the game unless it combos with another card.
love it
Icy Manipulator is remembered far more fondly than its actual impact on play. When I played the tourney scene in the mid to late 90's Icy was already a beat too slow. The Ice Age reprint felt awesome until you realized that now everyone knew Icy just wasn't worth it. Sure there were a few Icy/Orb decks (some using propaganda) but in general -despite being an artifact- Icy was not an auto-splash into every deck....not even close.