Gear Review/Training Tip: MantisX Dry Fire Trainer | Active Self Protection Extra
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2017
- Check out MantisX at mantisx.com/ or get a MantisX system here: amzn.to/2xQiHLn
In today’s ASP Extra lesson, we look at the MantisX trigger control trainer. It has become a very important part of my dry fire training and a very important tool for me to help new shooters to learn the art of trigger control!
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Attitude. Skills. Plan.
(music in the outro courtesy of Bensound at www.bensound.com)
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Great video, honest analysis, actions, and results.
Thanks for being real with it and not editing out the lower scored shots but explaining the what, where, and why.
One of the better reviews I've seen regardless of product!
It’s one of our core values at ASP to be honest. So when we suck, we say so. :)
Just ordered one as a family gift for father's day!
I’m loving this thing. All of the drills are what I learned in my shooting course. I can’t wait to try it with live fire.
Had to view 4 videos until I got your superb explanation of what this thing actually analyses. Great video. Great 😊
Great video. I’ve been using an in barrel laser for my dry practice. It’s been an invaluable tool in helping me to improve marksmanship and try different scenarios of a would be encounter. A favorite set up is when I get together with friends who also have their own lasers and targets. We then have multiple choices on where to shoot, making it a super fun way to enjoy some friendly competition. I believe in going to the range, but I’ve more than paid for my system by saving on range fees and ammo in between visits. Thanks again, John!
Glad to help!
In addition to the magazine plate mount for guns without a rail, they also have a set of bore plugs with a mount. The set is about $25 and includes plugs for 9mm/38, 40, 44, and 45. That allows training with revolvers in those calibers as well.
I just purchased the Mantis X based on your videos. I have a Walther PPS 9mm for my conceal and carry. I bought the adapter for the clip because the PPS gen 2 doesn't have a rail.
Thanks John. All training weapons would definitely improve your shooting skills. The greatest one of all, which the majority of shooters always neglect, dry firing your own weapon. Talk to any top action shooter, and they will tell you about the vast amount of time, probably up to one hour, they dry fire every single day. Just try 10 minutes each and every day and tell me you're not improving.
Thanks for this video john. Just ordered this on amazon. Hopefully in time i get scores as good as yours.
It's a great tool!
There's an audio feedback option in settings. Keeps me from walking back and forth.
Totally Awesome! Gotta get one!
John, thank you for introducing me to MantisX. I have to admit that I approached this product with high skepticism. So many people now hype products that I really needed to understand how seriously you guard your reputation. It distinguishes you. One of the many reasons I consider you a trusted advisor, worth my time, and have become a donor. After 10 months of looking and not finding anyone on any channel who's of a different view about this product, I bought the MantisX as a birthday present to myself.
For years, I used the in-chamber laser cartridge for dry fire. It's fine for basic practice, but really doesn't help with speed or better than gross precision. The wrong tool for the job. I've done thousands of dry fire presses, but haven't seen much improvement. Hoping that MantisX will take me to the next level.
I think it'll help you. It has most CERTAINLY helped me.
MantisX just arrived and I was truly excited to set it up. From 2000+ rounds fired at the range, I knew I was inconsistent, but could never nail down why. Short answer is that I AM inconsistent. I see one problem, try to fix it, and create a different problem. And then there are those rare great shots (98's on the MantisX) where I go .... oh, do that again ... and I end up doing vastly worse. So many things to work on, but now I have a way to do that. Thank you again for turning me on to this fantastic tool!
Xandrosi - another training aid you might benefit from are “grip master” hand exercise trainers. They have an adapter that resembles a barrel with a site to hold a sight picture as you hold with you middle, ring, and pinky, then squeeze with your index. It will strengthen your grip strength, make sure to start at the low with it and work up. I use mine while driving, not aiming just working it. Thanks for the update on your training. I have been thinking about getting a Mantis just on the fence due to the cash I could do something else with.
Hi John. I bought it through your link, thanks!
Ordering one next payday and an mag plate adapter for my LC9s
1st looks good, looks like it can really help.
Yeah I think it's very helpful.
John thank you for your many many lessons. We ordered our first firearm for home defense today. Literally almost all dealers are out of stock of everything reasonably priced in Philadelphia and for miles around. Ammo choice is likewise thin (I suppose since the pandemic). There were 12 people shot with one fatality in 4 separate instances w/in the past 24 hours. I have been putting off this purchase for 5 years. Rather than be able to buy the revolver of my choice (the most appropriate firearm for our household), I ended up with a 9mm semi auto. This of course entails even more rigorous and dedicated training for safety and effectiveness (Gd forbid we EVER need to use it). In the city and for 25 mi in all directions there are only indoor ranges or private clubs with outdoor ranges. The cost of range time, the time commitment, plus ammo cost/availability would keep us from becoming even basically proficient in the short term. I'm so glad to have the information about Mantis X. This is going to allow us to safely maximize basic firearms handling training between trips to the range. The reality is, I don't want to own a gun. But my wife and I have felt for quite some time now that it's as necessary as locks on the doors.
You're very welcome!
John can you do a video showing us what happens when you do live fire with the mantis x (the one that is only rated for dry fire)?
It will have a hard time registering shots and miss a lot.
Hello! I'm VERY new to dry firing training and have a small Sig Sauer P938. I'm trying to get to know the MantisX training kit but haven't figured out where to attach the bluetooth device. Thank you for your video!
Use the magazine floor plate adapter.
You convinced me.
I've bought one.
I'm normally very advert adverse but ya got me :-)
It's a cool tool. I use it a TON.
5:34 what a great sequence of sounds
John, thanks to you making me aware of this, I checked it out. Given the reviews, I went ahead and got one a few weeks ago. Using it regularly I'm finding that I can shoot much more consistently. The quick feedback loop -- unbiased by my own observations, is very effective in quickly improving your skills.
One thing that John didn't show is on the shot track screen, you can actually replay the movement. It sometimes helps clarify. In the newest software, if the MantisX detects a problem, you can play side-by-side videos showing the problem vs. the correct way to shoot.
I could say much more, but to sum up, I think it's among the best training money I've spent so far (with the exception of going to the "Survive the Fight" class in Kansas in a week and a half!).
Richard Berry my only question with the dry fire system is where is the target? Is the target on the phone display? He really doesn’t clarify to well. Probably too excited by how cool the system is.
Augustus Gloop You pick the target. It doesn’t matter. Once you line up on a target (a point on the wall, a door knob, anything), your technique is the same. Steady aim, smooth trigger press, clean follow-through. It measures all the micro-movements you do and then analyzed those movements to suggest improvement.
Richard Berry thank you good sir.
I can see the value of the MantisX system, especially because you can use it during dry practice as well as with live ammo, but it is calculating your shot placement. The Laser "bullet" and target systems give you actual feedback, but of course the speed of light is faster than the speed of the bullet. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the MantisX vs the various laser target systems.
They’re complementary.
@@ASPextra Thanks.
Any thoughts on what OWB holster works with the MantisX X10 Elite?
Cool product yo
John, is the yellow barrel plug homemade/purchased and does it cushion firing pin? Considering the Mantis system. Good video.
I got them at a gun store at some point.
For best results use this with the Itarget pro.
Hey John, I have been thinking about this product for a while and was wondering how the device determines the true aim of the gun and main sights? or to put it another way, how does the device know that when its, i assume, IR laser is on target that the point of aim is the same on the gun? Is that established in the calibration process? Or, final question thanks for bearing with me, are the true aim of the gun and the IR laser not linked and the main point is to make the laser wiggle as little as possible while breaking the trigger; and if so does one compensate by aiming higher?
Sorry for the question overload, but you peaked my interest.
It doesn't actually track the point of aim. It runs a constant check on the movement of the barrel, and when it senses the trigger break it reports back the last 200ms of data to the app.
You did a great disservice to the product by not showing the analytics that break down what factors cause one's score to be decreased. It provides written commentary, including photos, on such maladies as "pushing", "too little trigger", "trigger slap", etc. Also the realtime traces of the muzzle 200ms before firing, at trigger break, and after "firing" show you what the end of the barrel is doing. My local gun shop was not aware of it. I showed them my "Christmas Present" the day after Christmas, and they've ordered one for their training staff!
John, if you search on the channel for "Mantis Monday" or "Dry Fire Monday" you'll see that we've highlighted a function of the unit almost weekly for the entire year. Including everything you mentioned. Glad you're getting a lot of use out of it!
Is it good to shoot dry fire on the gun alot?
John do you know if the Mantis X will work in conjunction with the Glock E trainer where you do not have to rack the slide everytime?
I’m not sure I don’t own an e trainer. Sorry.
Hi there. Nice advert. I have some questions. Are you aiming at your phone while you are dry fire practicing it? What about the possibility to use other types of targets and how do you calibrate the aiming point with the center of the target in the app?
The app doesn't look at the aiming point per se, but at the movement of the muzzle. You're responsible to have the front sight on the target.
Brand of that empty chamber flag rod?
Has anyone fit this into a holster built for the TLR-1? I know it will fit but just making sure it's not too loose and doesn't hold the gun tight?
It kinda fits. A little. Some.
Where do I get the magazine adapter? From MantisX, could use it for my Shield.
It's on their website, link in description. It's a good workaround for pistols without a rail.
not sure but what are you shooting at. is there a target there
Have they figured out how to avoid racking the slide each trigger pull? Dry fire mags have been out for a while and it seems like they would have figured out how to work a system like this firing more than a single round.
They have an integrated unit with the Glock dry fire mag for those who shoot Glocks. I carry a hammer fired gun so I can fire multiples.
@@ASPextra Hey John Great Channel, I have a SIG P360 striker fired so would I not have to rack the slide every time ? I'm going to but one anyway but just wondering, thanks
Do you have to rack the slide every time with the handgun version?
Yes, the slide doesn't reset itself.
It would be great if it would show, as you shoot, where it hit (not only after the shot session). Great tip, thanks Mr. John.
You can combine it with a laser trainer like a SIRT pistol to get that kind of feedback.
That's right, thanks, Mr. John. We can see they serve different purposes, as MantisX's trainer indicates possible mistakes you are doing with the trigger, while the laser ammo only shows where it hits. You could, sometimes, hit the garget (feedback by the laser ammo), but still get the feedback that you messed up with your trigger pull (feedback by the Mantisx).
I though it WAS showing high,low,left &a right by the bands around the score, no?
@@ASPextra , I just ordered one (it was actually a bit cheaper ordering it directly from the company rather than through Amazon -- free shipping either way). I also ordered a bore laser (from Amazon!). Looking forward to getting started after making slow progress after having fired 1000 rounds (exactly) on the range through my G 34. All of the double-stack Glocks have appropriate rails.
what distance is he shooting?
I am curious as to how it senses when you pull the trigger?
It’s reading the reverberation in the gun from the sear tripping.
John what is your Dry practice gun?
Smith and Wesson?
Cheers Michael
Miki Blue he uses an HK VP9
So John when you’re shooting are you aiming at your phone? Is that what tells you your shot placement?
No, it is an accelerometer. If you want shot placement in addition to what the Mantis X does, get the Mantis Laser Academy.
I like this if they dont have something they should make it for a sniper i think that would be cool
Day 2 of dry fire with the MantisX. “Shot” scores average consistently above 95, with most shots 97-98 and one made it to 99.0. Honest question: is this product useful for me? Did I spend money unnecessarily? Considering returning because I don’t know if there is value in it when my hands seem fairly steady. Someone tell me one way or the other what they would do?
It’s useful. Move into the next drills.
Just ordered with your link... do you know off hand if this will work with the xds?
Yes, it will.
@@ASPextra I'm having a hard time with this.. seems like it's going to chew up the gun... doesnt seem to fit into the rail.. the hole doesnt line up with the groove..and the screw seems to thick. Do you have xds laying around you could help show install?
Wouldn't it be better to do this with your daily carry as you would also build muscle memory ?
Sure.
Which barrel plug are you using in this video?
Barrel Blok.
Hey do these guys sell car decals. I would Love placing that Cobra on my vehicle?
Don't put anything gun related on your car, you're just asking for someone to breaking into it looking for goodies...
That’s not a cobra.... it’s a viper
John, you sound like Miria Sharipova between each shot!
Multi grand slam winner…I will take it!
A reset trigger would be great. Having to rack the slide after every shot sucks
DA SA weapon. Better anyway in the event of no fire. Just my opinion though.
Does it have a visible laser for feedback?
Not the system by itself. It’s not the purpose.
I want the Brazil Off-Duty Cop Limited Special Edition!!!
lol
Is there a holster that will fit a Glock 17 with the Mantis attached?
Right now it's proprietary. Stay tuned! :)
What do you aim at? Do you need to buy anything else for this?
It actually doesn't really matter what you aim at. It's measuring the muzzle movement, so you can aim at whatever is convenient for you and safe.
How does it know what you are aiming at? Or is it just control?
It's an accelerometer.
Can this be used on a non railed 1911?
If you run Wilson Combat 47D mags it can. mantisx.com/collections/rail-adapters/products/magrail-wilson-combat-1911-47d-magazine-floor-plate-rail-adapter
Do they make a version for those of us who don’t have a rail to mount it on?
Rick Steinbauer yes they do. You can mount it on the bottom of your magazine.
yes th-cam.com/video/s6jDijYO3W0/w-d-xo.htmlm6s
I make that exact sigh when I'm bottoming out my breath for a shot lol
How to get better on the fundamentals of marksmanship?? Live fire.
80% dry fire, actually.
I have this device, I love it. It does work with live fire also.
Hi where is your code for Mantis ?
Everyone gets the best price so there’s no codes needed.
I have heard that there are videos that go along with the training. Is that true?
We literally post a video about safe and effective dry fire every Monday.
@@ASPextra thanks for the response but I was referring to the Mantis X training videos. By the way, I love your material and have been watching for years.
@@mida42 You can head over to our TH-cam Channel, MantisX, to check out all of our videos.
Might have to buy this since nobody in the business of making dry fire lasers make them for a 22. This is the only thing I can thing of that will work with a 22 as long as it has that picatanny rail to slide this onto. Also with this over the competition is if you don't own a da firearm this would be perfect because u won't need to rack the slide but with the competition if u don't own a da firearm u have to coke it back for every shot just to reset the pin to fire again which I hear is bad habit forming to rack the slide back every round just to shoot during dry fire
Hey John! Nice video and quick question, where can i buy a training handgun like the one in the video?
It is actually a real gun. He just took the magazine out and put a barrel plug in the barrel.
You can go to the gun store and ask them for a Heckler and Koch VP9. Fill out the paperwork and take it home. Then buy one of these and stick in in the barrel: amzn.to/2l0v2vD BOOM! Training handgun. :)
Love the VP9, and the VP9SK is my favorite personal carry. 😎
Does the phone or tablet require an internet connection?
No not to connect to the unit.
What were you aiming at?
The MantisX system measures muzzle movement, not alignment on the target. So you can aim at anything, and it measures how you did in the trigger press.
Are you aiming at your phone or at anything in particular?
It's an accelerometer, so you can aim at anything. Make sure you're safe in your dry fire!
What were you actually aiming at?
A reduced size IDPA target.
Nice video. I worry you’re going to lose your right thumb
Anyone know if this works with the dry fire mag??
Yes it will.
@@ASPextra Awesome, thanks for the response!
Turn your AC up
No joke.
So you basically you can aim at anything (i.e. a picture on a wall)? Little confused as to what you're supposed to aim at and how the app knows and scores your shots...
It scores muzzle stillness and movement. Precision, not accuracy.
@@ASPextra Do you know of a good dry fire system that scores accuracy? Thanks.
Mantis Laser Academy. But the X10 is more important for beginning to intermediate students.
What are you aiming at, John?
A spot on my wall...a dry fire target.
How does it work mechanically?
The physics aren't difficult to understand. The transfer point for force is lower relative to the hand so the torque generated is lower.
@@ASPextra I was going to get something similar for dry-fire practice but I think I will order this one now instead.
Sucks can't get it in Canada
I will ship you one if you'd like to buy one.
Active Self Protection Extra I would say yes but it is hard to buy any guy related things from the USA. I can't even get scoop have to buy it from Canadians dealer. But thank you. There is a lot of things I would like to get but will be stopped at the border.
I have shooter antipation. When I dry fire, the gun doesn’t move. I also use a dime on my front sight post that doesn’t fall when I break a shot. But when I go live fire, it’s like my brain knows it’s live and I jerk the gun every which way.
There are ways to mitigate that. A good shooting coach should be able to help you on the line.
Active Self Protection Extra is there a way without paying someone or just practice a lot? Do you have any tips? I can break a live round without moving to much if I pull the trigger really slow and let the shot surprise me. Takes a min though.
Get a .22lr pistol similar to your carry gun. Make sure you are wearing appropriate ear protection as well. I've seen people jump every shot and in the end their overear or in ear plugs alone were not enough.
E N it may very well be the loud sound. When I dry fire, i don’t anticipate or move the gun at all. I do the dime on front post and do it without moving the dime and I do it quick but when I go live, I jerk it. I do a lot of dry fire practice bc I’ve been instructed to do so bc you fight like you train. I do about 50 draws a night. When I do live, I shoot an 8 in gong and use a 10 by 18 inch silhouette. I’ve been prone to hit the edge of the gong and low and left on the silhouette. Low by 6in and left by 3 or 4. I’ve been working on it. Made some dummy rounds with spent casing and projectiles. It also helps me work on malfunctioning drills
I had this same problem. Terribly. For me it really helped to focus on the trigger reset. So after the shot, focus on that controlled slow release of the trigger back to the click. Do this in your mind or dry practice before trying live.
I started with a g27 .40. I didn’t think it would matter much, but stepping back to a g17 9mm did help.
Lastly, have a friend load your mags. Initially maybe one or two live rounds in the mag and the rest snap caps. After you notice you’re not pushing, work up to 1/4 live rounds, then 1/2. Etc. it’s a tense drill at first but it will help a lot.
Good luck!
What is the price and where can I find this item?
Benjamin Shealey link in the description
Link in description! :)
Active Self Protection Extra Thanks John.
Benjamin Shealey What about my thanks, I said it first lol
Ian Curtis John said it an hour before you did but thanks for catching it.
I thought about getting a Mantis to try but don't want to keep having to reset my pistol.....
You have to do that in all dry fire.
@@ASPextra when some use the smokeless range simulation and get one of the companies simulation guns, you don't. Therefore a more realistic training approach I feel. Downfall is obviously it's quite a bit more expensive.
John, you are teaching yourself bad habits having to rack the slide after every shot.
Can you even do dry fire "timed splits" with the Mantis?
So you have a second VP9 just to dry fire?
Remember, under stress you do what you train.
I think that’s overblown as a concern. Watch me shoot live fire. It’s not a problem.
Just got mine today. A little disappointed in the lack of instructions and info.
The app has a TON of instructions Thomas. Just download the app and pair the device and it'll give you an orientation.
"That was a pretty good shot lets see what it says" 32 lol
This seems like a great system to use to practice stable trigger control techniques, but because the sensors rely on movement upon trigger input to detect how stable your trigger pull is, it appears it shouldn't be used to determine trigger-control management when practicing draw-firing the gun.
I know, I know, ideally you want at the gun to be motionless and stable at the moment the trigger is pulled. But, realistically, you won't have a completely motionless gun upon your first shot when practicing drawing or presenting the gun. While a motionless gun is theoretically the goal, a gun still slightly in motion or just on the end-point of aligning the sights upon a draw-fire shot does not equate to a bad or inaccurate shot.
If you look 5:25 and slow to 0.25 speed, I agree you had a clean shot, yet the system rated it just a mere 36.7. The muzzle and front sight post appeared to be on your line of sight when the trigger broke. However, the gun was moving ever so slightly up the moment the "shot" broke (look at your finger, not the phone). This caused the system to read that you anticipated the recoil when you didn't. In fact, upon your trigger pull the muzzle and the front sight post was very stable and didn't budge.
In other words, your shot at 5:26 was most likely a clean and accurate shot on target - even though the gun was still in motion coming up to the ready position EVER so slightly. However, BECAUSE it was in motion, the sensors detected this slight movement, leading it interpret that you anticipated the shot (which you didn't) the moment the shot was fired, registering it as a bad/inaccurate shot, when that most likely would not have translated to a real-world scenario.
To clarify, I'm not knocking the system. I think it's a great tool to help people manage their trigger control and practice dry firing. I just believe it may not provide accurate and reliable data on more advance techniques like draw-firing.
Keep pumping out these videos John, they're great.
It's for working one aspect of your marksmanship. It does that very well.
Active Self Protection Extra agreed
You look like Al Borland’s Son if he had one. Just need some flannel and a tool belt.
Given that Al was the real expert on Tool Time, I will take that with pride.
Hmm. Looks more bulky than my I Target Pro.
Not all my guns have a rail
Are you holding your breath?
No.
sorry no smart phone
♿♿♿♿♿
It’s called manta sex? Strange
Manti-Sex? What an unfortunate name for such a cool product.
Mantis Ex. ;)
It'll eat your head
I THINK THIS IS A FIREARM TRAINING METHOD GEARED TOWARD YUPPIES
Tommy Ostrowski - I don’t have the expendable cash either. Does look like it might give some good feed back though. I’d like to give it run.
If it works, then it works. In the firearm industry $150 for something that could drastically improve your accuracy is pretty cheap.
You are sooo sweating in this vid. Maybe you should consider going on a diet :)
Or I live in Phoenix and it’s 110 outside and warm inside. Maybe you should learn some manners.
I calls it how I sees it, and you're definitely uncomfortable and sweating for some reason. You're right, I assumed it was because you were fat, but it could be climate, hot lights or lack of A/C. My bad. 😇