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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Infinity War and Endgame attempted to provide a conclusion for Hulk's confused arc. Did it succeed in redeeming his character? Or did it contribute to his downfall?
This is part of a series analyzing Hulk's character throughout the MCU.
Analysis of Hulk in Thor: Ragnarok: • How HULK Became a JOKE...
Analysis of Hulk in Age of Ultron: • Character REGRESSION |...
Analysis of Hulk in The Avengers: • NORTON vs RUFFALO | Hu...
The Incredible Hulk (2008) Review: • UNDERRATED? | The Incr...
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00:00 Catching up with the Hulk
08:03 Come Out, Come Out, Wherever You Are
13:01 Bruce's Arc in Infinity War
16:46 The Rules Have Changed ... Again
18:31 How To: Smart Hulk
30:32 Smart Hulk's Arc in Endgame
35:10 Questionable Character Stuff
38:57 Return of the Elephant
41:44 The Original ... Three?
46:18 Sacrificed for the Story - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
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its thanos, he beat hulk like this in the comics alot. So comparing abomination fight to thanos its no comparison. Thanos is a cosmic warlord my guy. But still overall this video was good bro
Guy, you don't seem old enough to know, though out the yrs , Thanos has avoided fighting The Hulk until MCU Got their hands on The Jade Giant ( 1of Hulk's nicknames in case you're too young to know) The Russo's comments are so missed leading & should World War Hulk reach the theaters, it will be The Coming Out Party of The Hulk 🔦🎵 I'm Free!!!🎶
@@eddieparker945yeah true he did state that but thanos always....always beats hulk bro and this before IW came to theaters. Im a hulk fan and i hate how mcu is treating him but when it come to thanos ..hulk simply does not stand a chance.
hulk should kill thanos and use th e stones,hulk become th e guardian of the stones
Pretty good points but some of it is incorrect. Particularly about how Bruce remembers what the Hulk did. In Ragnarok he clearly said that previously it was like they both were driving and he had a hand on the wheel but this time was different. This implies that he knows what the Hulk does except for when he was on Skaar.
Hulk and Thor were used as measuring sticks to gauge how strong Thanos was. However at the end of Infinity war Thor finally got his time to shine by almost defeating Thanos. Hulk never got his deserved rematch with Thanos. They instead chose to give Captain Marvel her chance to go one on one against Thanos. Captain Marvel didn't deserve that, that was Hulks moment to shine.Thor was made fat and weaker so Captain America and Ironman could have their time to shine.
I also hate that the russoa said hulk was simply weaker than thanos, even tho they couldve give him an upgrade like most of the other heroes, an enraged hulk litterally one ahot thanos in thw comics
@@Sucmydack Russo brothers are good directors. So I understand their viewpoint. They had Chris Evan's ( Captain America) and Robert Downey ( Ironman) leaving the MCU. And wanted to give those characters a good send off.. While also highlighting Captain Marvel. However Down playing Hulk was disappointing.
@@shadowmonk7465 they are good directors, they clearly dont know how to handle the hulk tho
We al know the Russos are huge Capitan America fanboys, Cap is basically the protagonist of the entire latter arc of the infinity saga starting on Civil War
@@enriquedossantos3283 true. Captain America Winter Soldier was one of the best Mcu movies. But yeah they were uninterested in the Hulk.
Bottom line, the writers were lazy and just didn’t care about the character and thus we got the completed destruction of the Hulk. How many movies have meaningful moments followed by tragedy? Plenty. The writers hated this character and none of their pathetic responses will hide that fact.
Yup
Also Disney thought that the Hulk was too masculine
Fact
@@TheLegendOfNiko uhhhhhhh..... the hell? Is this true??
I mean its also paramounts fault
No subs, no views, but clearly putting in time and effort to put out a quality video. Nice
Thank you!
Let’s work to change that.
u def deserve bro
Until you said that, I didn’t realise that this dude had under 1000 subscribers. This content is so good, educational and informative, I actually believed you were a massive creator. Really well done mate.
With this quality it should be a quick rise.
The problem is essentially that the MCU writers don’t care about The Hulk and for some reason think the core concept is difficult to execute, but it actually one of the simplest.
I think now they care about ticking specific boxes instead of honoring Hulk or other characters.
Or.....maybe not every hulk scene has to be him destroying everything in sight, most "fans" overlook shit like that because they only care about battle scenes instead of a good plot or story which is the entire foundation for a fight scene imo and unfortunately for you guys hulk can't dominate every second of the MCU, I personally hate it when hulk shows up and destroys everything, it only works when you really need him and imagine how boring infinity war would've been if hulk killed Thanos as soon as he saw him, long story short, enjoy what you have with these amazing stories because one day you'll be complaining about this, that, and the other when it comes to the MCU wishing you had these days back, nobody ever appreciates the present.
@@griimrose I'm sorry but Hulk is SUPPOSED to be the atomic time bomb. That's the whole point of his character. You're the reason why Hulk CAN'T reach his full potential. Hulk is about getting stronger the more angry he is and they completely sideline that important fact.
@Peter Who said he doesn't get stronger when mad?
@@deckzone3000 Because he never demonstrated it. He was furious when Nat died, yet he had regular Hulk strength when he threw that bench.
Now that line in Endgame where Bruce says he blames himself for Thanos winning makes so much more sense. Hulk refusing to transform, Star-Lord botching the plan to get the Infinity Gauntlet and Thor wasting time to gloat were all reasons why the Snap happened.
Coincidentally, all three characters get no chance to redeem themselves. Hulk undoing the Snap isn't a rematch. Not a proper one. Thor had a strong plot point that was bogged down by fat jokes and the audience being expected to point and laugh at depression. Star-Lord's role was nothing but slapstick and being thrown under the bus.
Drax also never got a moment with Thanos in Endgame despite that being his motivation since the end of the first Guardians movie. Honestly, they should've split Endgame into 2 films. There was no need to rush to the end.
Thor still being treated as a joke in love and thunder and still no redeeming moment for star lord I seriously doubt in guardians 3 they’re not gonna show that
thor didnt gloat thanos snpped before he could finish him.
@@PeterParker-ff7ub "I told you you'd die for that" sounds like gloating to me.
The length they’re willing to go to justify them shitting on a character(especially legacy characters) to make another look good is infuriating lol it seems like I’m saying “look how they massacred my boy” after every new movie
Great video btw keep it up
Thank you!
Stop watching them then.
@@deckzone3000 lmao that argument is so dumb you have to be a child lmfaoo I want them to be good there just not I’ve enjoyed the other phases but phase 4 is garbage
@@deckzone3000 me and many of my friends already have but its still annoying that they keep fucking beloved characters like this
“Smart Hulk” is simply the “Banner Hulk” of the 80s. That was Banner in Hulk’s body. He was weaker,couldn’t get stronger because he couldn’t rage. But they talk like this is the merged or “Professor Hulk”,who was different than Hulk or Banner.
yup... professor Hulk would have clapped Thanos and remade reality as he saw fit... wouldnt even really be a challenge honestly.
If that was Banner Hulk, where the Banner? he doesn't act like either Banner nor Hulk, and bears little resemblance to Professor Hulk as well... this is an entirely new, worse character
@HunterX05 In the modern age, when the banner takes over the body, he can still get angry and get stronger
@@davidspearim5552does the current hulk get angrier and stronger? because he nevers seems to ever get any stronger.
@emptyhand9488 Yes See there was an arc Where bruce was using science and magic to control the hulk, so he can get stronger and gain new powers and abilities
The Russo Brothers openly admitted they didn’t know what to do with the Hulk, so they sidelined him and killed him off
This and their treatment of Thor in Endgame is why i have a love/hate relationship with them smdh
The mcu never knew what to do with the character, the people making have not creativity.
Just have him rage out and smash things
@@MrREAPERsz but that would be "toxic"
@@fvckgoo9le242 mcu she hulk is toxic
“A sacrifice to the story” that PERFECTLY sums up hulks treatment. PERFECTLY.
I'm convinced someone at Marvel despises the Hulk, because they do not know how to write him. Also tone death my ass, they are so dense, Hollywood constantly amazes me. He's what happens, Hulk emerges from Hulkbuster. A brief moment of triumph, he dispatches badguy and catches Thanos off guard enough to stagger him, allowing Thor to do his part. But as a perfect mirror to the beginning of Infinity War, both Hulk and Thor lose as Thanos snaps away half the universe. Then in Endgame, Thor and Hulk team up again alongside Ironman and America to keep Thanos on the backfoot. Apparently that by itself is too difficult, who knew.
I don’t know why they consider it tone deaf. Consider the scenes prior to Thanos entering the Wakanda battle. It was our heroes getting beaten up against the Black Order but ended up triumphant. Vision and Cap vs Corvus Glaive. Black Widow, Okoye, and Scarlet Witch against Proxima Midnight. Banner vs Cull Obsidian. These guys were tough, but our heroes defeated them as small victories one by one right before Thanos showed up. The tone was more hopeful for a while until Thanos showed up, where he proceeds to wreck everybody and later did the snap.
The hopeful tone with Banner and Hulk working together to beat Cull Obsidian, only to be defeated by Thanos later on, matches that tone very well, actually.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 huh, yeah it actually really does
@@alexanderchristopher6237 Yeah, or even better, Bruce _letting_ the Hulk go out and do the dirty job. Sorry, I just absolutely despise Smart Hulk as a concept, I want Savage Hulk back.
I'm beginning to think that Ed Norton dodged a bullet when he lost the Hulk role. Sure he was great in the first two avengers, but the fact that Hulk never got a second solo movie is rather telling imo, as well as his deconstruction in Ragnarok and the Infinity War saga.
Hulk just keeps getting better and better. 📈
They couldn't make a second movie
@@deckzone3000 nice joke
Hulk never getting a second solo movie isn't telling of anything you're implying. It was just Universal Studios being a pain.
@@k-leb4671 Uh huh. Remember Sony and Spider-Man? Keep telling yourself it was this reason instead of that one, still seems pretty telling to me.
Marvel Studios keeps taking out deleted scenes that’s important to the plot of the story. Thor being possessed by the norse gods in Age of Ultron. Banner and Hulk conflict in Infinity War. It just shows that they are deleting moments that adds more detail to the films plot.
yeah they should delete jokes instead
Seriously, it’s ridiculous how badly they drop the ball when it comes to this.
@@aintgonnaletuknow5758 yes they are out of place most of the time.
I think one of the biggest issues with The Hulk comes from the fact The MCU couldn't make a movie for him without Universal.
I think the Hulk rights are going back to marvel in June
@@tmac731 god I hope they make a new hulk movie and get rid of ruffalo
@@Augrills If we never get a new Hulk movie people should start recognizing that the only one we've ever needed was made almost 20 years ago by a director who understood Banner and Hulk. People who haven't watched that movie or read the comics but saw the MCU movies probably don't even know that Hulk isn't some boring dumbass with no emotional depth. He's actually one of the most tragic characters in marvel and the 2003 film shows it perfectly. I'd like to see Thanos react to a Hulk that has the speed and reaction time to swat speeding missiles away from him who stands nearly double his height and is also like 4x his mass.
@@tmac731 Even if they do, it's going to be hard for them to do anything significant with Hulk until sometime after 2025, because they've got projects already in the pipeline up til then and none of them include a Hulk film.
@@NelsonStJames 2025 is only 3 years away. It the didn’t fully reveal phase 6 yet so a Hulk project might be human there somewhere
Poor Hulk, man. The guy is easily most mishandled character in the MCU. And most of the deleted scenes in the series involved both him and Bruce. They tried adding SOMETHING to the 2, but was eventually cut. He deserved better, he really did...
This video really is critical and does justice to the hulk. You earned a small subscription from this guy!
this was a great analysis and needs to be viewed more
I do love Hulks face when he says "Like I was made for this" This phrase is kind of a faith/fate line. Banner is a man of science so even he cannot believe he's saying it.
When I first saw Endgame and Smart-Hulk, I thought “Woah, that’s…kind of a jump in 5 years. Whatevs, I guess.”
But then I got into reading random comics, came across “The Immortal Hulk” story and…*yikes.*
I remember watching the old Incredible Hulk movies (the one with Abomination and the one where for some reason Bruce’s dad turns into…energy? Lightning? It’s been years, cut me some slack!)
Anyway, looking back I feel like those movies showed Bruce as fragile and lost more than now in the MCU. Immortal Hulk was my first introduction into Bruce’s backstory (“before” Hulk came in) and it made things crazy when I thought about it more.
I liked Hulk more as this unstoppable force that can be unleashed with so much as a poke. The original movies made that crystal clear- and I even watched a deleted scene where Bruce tries to off himself in the Arctic and Hulk stops him! That showed them being separate and at odds with each other, which I loved! It’s sort of like Eddie Brock and Venom in the 2018 movie- at least in the beginning, where Venom basically says “You’re my b*tch now, take me to the rocket!” (Still liked it, btw. Never saw the sequel)
With Smart-Hulk, they basically shafted him and took away the whole “at-odds with each other” thing. And now that I’m ACTUALLY thinking about it- *why the hell did they skip over them merging?!*
And don’t even get me started on Episode 1 of She-Hulk…
I grew up watching the first 2000s Hulk movies too and then all the animations after that, considering I was born in the late 90s, like Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Planet Hulk and what the MCU has done with the Hulk has been sad to see compounded with She-Hulk.
I think I found a kindred spirit in you and how you feel about Hulk cuz you said everything I've thought bingeing his videos today and videos like this since before and especially now that She-hulk aired and messed with her character too.
F MCU She-Hulk.
You wanted Endgame to be an even longer movie? 😮
@@deckzone3000 split it into 2 movies. Why rush to the end?
This is the truest most incredible commentary video I’ve ever seen regarding The Hulk, I absolutely love the hulk and everything about him, to this day I get goosebumps when Banner changes in the first Avengers, but ever since 2012, they officially took everything serious regarding the green guy and threw me out the fucking window, such a waste and disgrace.
Real
Hulk in the first avengers was amazing, my only dislike is they took all of his emotions
3:11 They also never explain why Thanos is so powerful. In the MCU he's just an alien as far as anyone knows. They never adequately explain his power. As for Hulk, there's also his fight with the Hulkbuster armor in Avengers 2, which also he lost too quickly, but at least he lasted longer than that sham of a fight in IW.
10:58 All great points. Also, what about when Banner tried to kill himself and Hulk spit out the bullet? Here we have Banner in danger of dying, yet Hulk refuses to emerge. And when has Banner ever asked the Hulk to manifest before? The Hulk has just done so for the sake of self-preservation. What? He'd rather just be a voice inside Banner's head? Make ZERO sense, especially when Hulk says he wants to live in the deleted scene. How is he going to live if Banner dies?
38:48 Yup. CM could've just flown the gauntlet away. How would Thanos follow her?
if Hulkbuster fought savage hulk (real one) he would have not won.
I agree the mcu hulk is garbage it doesn’t make sense that halk doesn’t want to come out cause he scared or doesn’t want to be used by banner they ruined the halk.
They can try and explain what and why they did all this crap to Hulk but the real reason is it was all done for the sole benefit of Captain Marvel !
Just as they also ruined the last Fox X Men movie by taking away the skurll leaving a horrible movie just to benefit Captain Marvel
😂 Just say you hate women.
Yup, everything she did could've been done by the other Avengers. Her saving Tony, could've just had him fix the ship and save himself. Her destroying Thanos' ships, Thor did that in Infinity War. Her taking on Thanos, could've just given a moment to Hulk and have him rematch Thanos.
@@angelglass2618 I'm worried now that they have the rights to the X-men. I don't think they'll be able to do them justice like the FOX movies did. Especially if Professor X' s cameo in Dr. Strange 2 is anything to go on.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp They would not have to have shown Hulk as an inapt fighter. Same for Thor.
They could have made Banner have his existential crisis and refusing to let Hulk out paralyzed with dough and fear leaving Thor to fight Thanos alone, and remember Thanos was not alone he had powerful allies and an army, so Thor simply was out numbered, no need to humiliate him.
Hulk could later have had a big reemerging scene and an epic battle against Thanos !
But no !
Instead we had Thor already defeated (did not fight alongside Hulk) and a Pitiful to late "we have a Hulk". a scene made specifically to humiliate Hulk.
His allies were so unimpressed that they decided to let Thanos have his fun !
And to ad insult to injury Thanos does not defeat the Hulk because of superior strength but by superior skills (so everybody explains).(if he was so powerful why did he need more skills to defeat Hulk ?).
This show of skills as more to do with showing the Hulk as having none, so it serves not to elevate Thanos but to take more away from the Hulk.
In my book this does not fly for I always regarded the Hulk as a natural born skilled fighter, and more, he as the will and strength of character to endure the most severe pain. (somebody who won't stay down).
I think the whole "Smart Hulk" thing could've worked if Smart Hulk trained during the Blip and became an MMA like fighter, and then when Thanos comes back, he's much more able to go one on one with him, trading blow for blow. The fact that they just turned Hulk into Swole Banner is kind of sad.
Natashas death shouldve sent him into beserk mode after seeing thanos.... hes the reason everything and everyone was at a loss. Endgame fight was meh to be honest... iron man didnt do much, dr strange hulks no where to be seen.. your telling me buncha illumanati wothout powerhouses can defeat thanos with ease but with whole fckn army of heavy hitter supes couldnt???... plus a full infinity powered thanos struggles against the likes of capt whos 1 shotted by the hulk in the comics and she had a hard time fighting thor with mjolnor in what if.. if thanos defeated hulk with ease then he shouldve with capt marvel also.... the problem is that mcu is turning into msheeu
@DrenX 87 Thanos had nothing to do with Natasha dying, especially this Thanos. Captain Marvel is the strongest Avenger by the way.
@@deckzone3000wanda and thor are stronger even in the mcu btw
@@deckzone3000 literally nobody cares about capitalism marvel
@@deckzone3000 captain marvel? She was thrown aside in like 5 seconds so I beg to differ.
Ultimately it was a case of Hulk's powers being retconned from The Incredible Hulk, as before he was able to get stronger from how angrier he gets but now it's a case of becoming a strong monster, rather than an embodiment of rage that can't be stopped.
In avengers they based a lot of Hulk off of Edward Norton because that was all they had to go on. However, each appearance after that drifted further from that Hulk until they refuse to acknowledge it existed at all.
This
That would explain why he and Hulk were so well characterized in the first Avengers.
Hulk basically creates immortality and it’s treated as a throwaway gag than something that can rewrite civilization as a whole
This video was packed with great points. I hope the algorithm makes this masterpiece go viral.
If it helps, the line "Thanos is coming" was spoken in part using the Hulk's voice. It could be taken as the last thing Hulk said before retreating into Banner again.
I personally have not read the comics but I'm the kind of person that dives into TH-cam and Google to find info and comparisons between comics and movies. I dive into The Hulk when The Incredible Hulk came out because I personally liked that Hulk the most and is sad to see what they have done to his character in this movies. And unfortunately She Hulk is going to receive the same treatment.
I do remember watching the animated series of the Hulk and loved her character.
right?? so much potential waster, and now She-Hulk is up on the chopping block
I know, the big greens are better than ever.
They literally (in every sense of the word) Hank Pym'd Bruce/The Hulk.
They treated him almost exactly as the writers did with Hank Pym in the comics years ago. They hate wrote him. The similarities they have to each other are uncanny the more I contemplate this, and I'm not talking about his being the other creator of Ultron and Vision.
I never realized before, but MCU Bruce/Hulk IS the MCU's stand in for comic book Hank Pym. Him and Black Widow were the Hank and Janet of the team even down to the odd relationship and awkward breakup. Not to mention Hank had a love interest before Jan which in the MCU is not unlike MCU Betty for Bruce. As in, a significant love interest that they are written to act like they never really had a relationship with.
His (Hank's and Hulk) character was neglected gradually and he was overall the most underutilized member of the main team. He would get beat up the most and only win fights against the minions and significantly weaker opponents. Like Hulk, it was a different story in his own stories in Tales to Astonish before he was rolled over into Avengers and Hulk and Namor took over that series.
Coincidentally enough, Hank was the one who defeated Loki in the teams premiere issue and Hulk defeated him in the first movie.
He's the scapegoat/black sheep of the MCU as Hank was in the comics due to the apathy of the writers, who personally took their not as knowledgeable perception and low opinions of the character out on the character instead of writing the character.
It certainly seems as though only those behind the The Incredible Hulk movie were genuine fans of him in the comics. Josh Whedon was a fan of the 70s show and that adaption, much like Patty Jenkins was a fan of Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman. Primarily writing that version of the character in Wonder Woman 1984 instead of drawing any inspiration from the source material. All fine and good I guess as sometimes it works out well for the character.
Everyone else either had a surface level understanding of the character (like many people do about Superman) and they don't like that oversimplified version in their head so they want to do their own thing and create their own character and pass it off as another version when it's closer to a rip-off and reimagining from a new character foundation. There was also disinterest and unconcern with the character, causing them to treat the Hulk with avoidance, distain, and disrespect. No Hulk fan would make Bruce and Hulk this selfish.
It is not even deconstruction of the character as that would mean they bothered to fully understand the construction of the established character. It's outright willful ignorance of the character's fundamental elements and purpose as they don't know or care to understand him.
The didn't write the Hulk. They're not knowledgeable enough of the character to write the Hulk, for the Hulk. They wrote about and around him. Just like what happened with Hank. With the inferiority complex, his writers believed there was no way Hank would ever be proud of his powers (as they thought he was a lame, boring character as clearly the people behind the recent movies have shown they see the Hulk) and so they made him insecure about himself, his powers, and his role on the Avengers for no reason other than they think he sucks so they made him think he sucks.
They did something similar with modern Hawkeye, post Avengers Disassembled too. His character has become "he thinks he sucks and overcompensates all the time" because to the writers, he's just some boring regular dude with a bow and arrow who is a weak-link to the Avengers and Marvel universe when Hawkeye's original and established over years characterization was he thought he was the greatest for his skill alone.
He had the pride and ego of Doctor Doom, and could back it up just as much as Doom but to the writers around Avengers Disassembled and especially post-Avengers 2012, he was seen as only a normal white bread guy with a bow and arrow. Which is all they see him as.
Instead of the light-hearted, clever, open, wise-guy, who is bold, eager, willful, confident, ambitious, has a devil-may care attitude, a chip on their shoulder, and is heady character who despite his background which gave him this ego, still manages to keep his focus on others and the situation when it counts everytime. Prideful, but aims it at problems instead of creating problems. Strong belief in himself as well as values, which gave him an integrity like Captain America, but it doesn't have a filter due to how courageous he is. Hawkeye in the past was often the loudest guy in the room, would speak his mind, and would be the first to get up and do something. Hot headed but patient unlike Quicksilver.
MCU Hawkeye was too calm and collected. Hawkeye isn't the sniper personality type. He very much had Green Arrow's highly opinionated personality where he's always got something to say. Age of Ultron got the motivational part of his personality down, as comic book Hawkeye was frequently his own and the Avenger's hype man. He was exactly like who he was in his first appearance. An entertainer. Not just some Ultimate assassin and family man who's only interesting by association.
Even the way Hawkeye speaks in the comics had personality, as it was simple, rural American English. He used to be everything but ordinary but now it's his redefined character trait. For years, he was the guy that always had a hot take but if Captain America was down during battle he would step up without question to try to lead to team.
Why am I ranting about the MCU making Hawkeye less interesting by only drawing from the Ultimate universe adaption?
The story that destroyed Hank Pym was about him having an inferiority complex about his place on the Avengers, causing him to go to extreme measures to prove his worth on the team. When Janet found out and tried to stop him he panicked and the artist misunderstood the writer's directions and had Hank slap his wife.
The character arc they made Bruce/Hulk go through is eerily similar to the out of character reimagining of Hank as YellowJacket. Not with the mental breakdown which caused what everyone only sees as domestic violence and abuse when it was clear the dude was too stressed out to be thinking properly or intentionally desiring to beat up his wife like everyone treats his character like.
It's an instance people do not know within the full context, but then again MCU Hulk apparently over the span of two years willingly was brutally killing multiple gladiators for the praise and acclamation of his audience. MCU Hulk has never deliberately tried to kill anyone unprovoked and I'd imagine many of his victims were not trying to kill him or anyone else as they were terrified out of their minds and paralyzed with fear of him on his way to smash them but people conveniently forgot what the Hulk was written to have been doing on Sakaar.
Arguably, Hulk has been mischaracterized more than Hank, but thankfully he's not tied down to being seen only as a brutal executioner/serial killer who murders for the kicks like Hank is tied down to wife beater.
Even down to details like Hulk not having his own movies and instead stuck as a supporting character in other characters, mainly the Avengers stories. That's EXACTLY what happened with Hank, but with his own comic title. Hank had his own brief first original run (Hulk had one film) and then was rolled into the Avengers stories, where a lot of his development happened off the page of the Avengers (He would leave the team and come back as Giant Man, Goliath, etc) Not having his own adventures.
They gave both of the characters an inferior complex they never had before because didn't like the characters. They wrote them inconsistently and made multiple out of character decisions with them. They purposely sidelined them. They made him selfish, small-minded, dumb for geniuses, and unlikable. They purposely wrote Bruce and Hulk into the ground because they didn't care about, understand, or sincerely like the character just like they did with Hank Pym, and just like Hank, they ruined his character in the eyes of the vast majority of audiences who only know of the current version. The damage done to his character may last forever and only increase with time as writers write based off this this slandered, character assassinated parody.
When did Hank Pym start receiving this treatment in the comics?
Thank you, Valtuem, for this video. Being a tremendous Hulk fan, these issues have bothered me since Infinity War. Markus, McFeely and the Russo's clearly know NOTHING about the Hulk.
Don't forget about Taiki Wattiti, the worst thing to happen to the MCU
I feel like marvel completely forgot about the character growth from the first hulk film, and had a soft reboot with mark ruffalo's version of the character, as it seemed like a complete heel turn for his character, from the character development of the first film, which is a shame, but hopefully if abomination returns in the future, we might get something akin to maestro in the mcu.
Probably turn maestro into a joke
I wish someone out there could get their hands on those deleted scenes and put all their heart into the project and recreate the infinity war and endgame that would feel like a better end to the infinity war movies
Sacrifice? they straight up butchered the character, also Thor (comedic relief for 90% of Endgame) They didn't even let him have his go at Thanos, it certainly would have been a great moment in the end for a fully powered Hulk to beat Thanos to a pulp then completely loose control so Tony has to take the gems to "end" the fight, then deal with Hulk (maybe Mantis can calm him? She handled Thanos for a bit)
He had as much a “go” at Thanos as anyone else 🤡🤡🤡 He literally fought alongside Tony and Cap 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ The whole point of Thor’s progression was to stop acting compulsively … You know … The reason why he lost the previous encounter with Thanos. He literally killed Thanos. He had his “go”, so stop making it about him. As for your “hulk beating Thanos to a pulp … That’s just dorky and pointless. That would come from the mind of a 4 year old.
@@GourSmith I was talking about hulk not Thor, hulk didn't have a second round with thanos to atone, rumor is that they preferred to let captain marvel be the one who could overpower thanos, and hulk beating bad guys to a pulp is what he does, especially when he looses control, hulk fans where really mistreated by the Russos, whedon did give hulk his rightful place as the strongest avenger, and he delivered some of the biggest moments in avengers one and two
@@enriquedossantos3283 Hulk snapped. He did his part in a different way. He won. He helped make everything happen. He helped with the time travel.
@@GourSmith that wasn't hulk, that was bruce, just in hulk's body
@@uns33nbois81 Cute. It’s literally smart hulk. It’s Bruce and hulk. Maybe you haven’t watched the movies and just repeat what you’ve heard others say like a parrot
What happened with Hulk's mass increases , durability and infinity strength the angriest he gets ? give him a good end, make him soo strong that no one in the galaxy can beat him "the immortal hulk" and in fear to hurt some one, he leave far away, let him find a home somewhere, far far away in the boundaries of the space, not only a home but acceptance and love too . ( for example ) , I am ashamed and disappointed that they have use Hulk like a puppet or a puny human.
You are the first person that I've seen since Endgame released to point out how Hulks personality could of remained in Hulks body after the Ancient One knocks Bruce out of it. I was so disappointed that that's not what happened.
Imagine it. We could of had a scene where current Hulk(not realising he's in the past) sees the New York invasion, assumes it's another invasion in his timeline, goes off to fight, comes across his past self and we end up with a Hulk vs Hulk battle.
Instead we just got a KO'd Hulk body and a Cap Vs Cap fight.
Bro, this video is excellent. Outright everything I wanted to say about the MCU's treatment of Hulk.
I miss Edward Norton dude he had such passion for the character. Understanding for him, the tragedy of the story. Everything. Mark Ruffalo just doesn't have that
The shock I experienced when I saw you have less than 1k subscribers, this video is incredible my friend. This is some one of the best videos I’ve seen on this subject. Your editing, commentary, and insight is on par with channels that have 100’s of thousands of subscribers. Keep up the great work!
Binged your Hulk videos up to this one over the past few days. Really enjoy the quality of your videos and your understanding of Bruce’s character. Keep up the great work!
Wow I loved this analysis video, well done and I hope more people see your channel!
Great Video 😁 Glad TH-cam is recommending more channels.
“Some bad shit will happen…like Loki.” Haha so true! Got a subscribe just for that line (and maybe the rest of the video). Very thought provoking & brought a lot of new details & issues to light.
This is the ultimate analysis to explain why so many Hulk fans were dissapointed after Endgame. I hade to make a Hulk tribute where I "retconned" some of the character developement to get it out of my system and I've essentially been typing essays as comments on Reddit discussing the movies trying to put words into why Hulk's arc just didn't work for me, but I'll probably just link to this video from now on (another essay incoming now though). The only thing I partially disagree with you is your claim that Ragnarok ruined Hulk. I loved Hulk in Ragnarok (not Banner though cause it felt like Ruffalo was just playing himself and joking around). I loved that Hulk was finally speaking and we got his perspective on the relationship. It certainly pushed the idea of two seperate personalities in one body. Up until this point we've mostly just seen Banner's point of view and how he hates turning into the Hulk. Ragnarok turned it around and showed that Hulk hates turning into Banner just as much (and even hates being called "Banner"). The scene with Hulk desperately fighting to avoid turning back into Banner is one of my favourite moments in the MCU (it's also one of the few emotional scenes in the movie that isn't immediately undercut by humor). I think he could have been even more developed and I wish they explained his speaking ability more - my headcanon is he only speaks when he''s "calm" because even in Ragnarok he's mostly just roaring in the fight with Thor (but that doesn't explain his "Hulk Smash!" in TIH) but overall I was happy with the direction they were taking.
I was really looking forward to see Banner and Hulk's dynamic develop more. Like you said, Infinity War then introduced a whole new tension between Hulk and Banner where Hulk refuses to show up, and the film ends with the tension still there and unexplained. That’s fine and dandy considering we still have Endgame to release the tension, but then Endgame comes and it just jumps over the tension release and goes directly to the aftermath. Wait what? What the hell happened to Hulk? Why didn't he want to show up during Infinity War? Is he okay with Banner tinkering with gamma and merging them together? (If you believe that Hulk is just an aspect of Banner I can see why this wouldn't matter, but the film's have more or less established them as seperate personalities similar to Moon Knight).
I loved your take on the merge, but I do feel that the deleted scene in Infinity War is better than what we got - which is essentially nothing at all. I also don't really understand the reasoning behind deleting this scene. Their reason was (Screenrant quote), "The writers of Infinity War have attributed the change to Smart Hulk's coming out party to the timing, as they explained that it felt odd to have Hulk have this high moment when everyone else was approaching their lowest point of defeat." Which doesn't really make any sense, because at this part of the movie everyone in Wakanda is getting triumphant moments. Banner defeats Cull Obsidian before the women defeat Proxima Midnight and Cap and Vision defeat Corvus Glaive. Things are looking up for our heroes. In fact you might even argue that a Hulk high would make the defeat hit even harder. But I''ll leave it to the experts if no one felt the scene worked within the totality of the movie, then I get it.
I also get why they struggled to shoehorn the merge in Endgame considering the original plan was to do it in the movie before, but they had a perfect story element right in front of them! These guys have Banner meet the Ancient One in the movie and they even have her smack the soul out of his body and they didn't think this could be a good time to have both Banner and Hulk's "souls" out conversing and maybe even eventually coming to an agreement (or one of your other variations)? All of the other OG Avengers have some sort of cathartic character building moment during the time-heist, but Banner's journey becomes exposition-galore.
Ill never like proffessor hulk, imo it kind of contradicts hulk storytelling seeing as banner and hulk arent the same being
thankfully the community has dubbed that version as ‘Soybou Hulk’, professor Hulk would be so much better lol
@@bottomfeeder7924 lol, cuckold hulk
Professor Shrek is not Hulk. They killed my boy.
I don't have a problem with a hypothetical Hulk/Banner merging. The Hulk isn't some external force that possesses Banner's body, it is own inner monsters drawn out to the surface and exaggerated. Hulk and Banner should be two halves of one whole that don't quite fit together, but should be able to.
15:58
I'm impressed this line became reality with the first episode of She Hulk. Interesting...
I see times when he's reached 500k subs.
on point video with technical breakdown of a character from a writing standpoint.
To be fair, you could argue that Bruce and Hulk share implicit memories, perhaps general conceptual understandings, and even to a degree motivations; while not sharing biographical memories unless they are particularly traumatic. While the Hulk is a separate personality, he seems to love who Bruce loves romantically, and generally has very similar ultimate goals. They are clearly two sides of one coin, like the classic Jekyll / Hyde dynamic but with a bit more of the misunderstood monster, and then retooled for the superhero genre. Theoretically “Smart Hulk” would just be a proper re-identification of the Hulk subpersonality resulting in a sorts unification of their traits and whatnot, the big problem I have is that smart Hulk doesn’t feel like Hulk at all, he’s like a big Green Banner. They need to play him a bit more aggressive, confident, maybe even layer in some Lou Ferrigno over Mark Ruffalo’s lackluster VA. Show us that the Hulk is now Banner as much as Banner is now the Hulk.
Hugh Dancy deserved this role, when they were still searching for a replacement for Norton during 2010.
Like you said, Ruffalo's VA is lackluster, and his acting has decreased a lot since AOU. I don't know if Waititi or the Russos ask him to literally act like a drunk uncle or is just him, but it isn't alright.
Dancy, on the other hand... watch Hannibal, his character is basically Bruce but without the Hulk. Also, I just don't like Professor Hulk, I want Savage Hulk back. I want both Bruce and Hulk to develop as characters, finally learning to be in peace with each other, but still as different entities, without a merging thing going on.
Great analysis. You deserve more subs broseph.
Thanos: has armer and metal gloves
HULK: has nothing
Honestly lad , top video , as a confused hulk fan for a few years , you explained a lot of great points , thank you boyo
(1:49) Having Hulk roar after Loki's statement makes the scene more satisfying in my opinion because we the audience along with Thanos are now focused on Hulk, which, in my opinion, shows the Hulk waiting for its prey before striking, just like any aggressive predator does.
Although I agree seeing Hulk wasted to show Thanos's power was truly irritating as I personally thought of something different than what we got:
Instead, we saw Hulk repeatedly punch Thanos until finally when Hulk went in for another punch we saw Thanos hold it and now he takes control, knocking Hulk back into the wrecked Statesman with a simple headbutt. Hulk, who was enraged when he saw Thor, a close friend of his, began to grow angrier. With two pieces of rubble as boxing gloves, Hulk attacks Thanos with sheer strength and wit but finally, Thanos unknowingly lured Hulk to the right place.
In the meantime, the Black Order fought Loki and defeated him after a brutal barrage of attacks; now Hulk is forced to take on all these skilled warriors who gradually overwhelm him. It takes only a few moments for Thanos to stand over Hulk's bloodied body, as he removed the helmet now feeling his cheek as he said, "All that for a drop of blood?". We see Thanos's sick humor as he eventually murders Loki and blows up the Statesman's remains, leaving Thor to perish.
In conclusion, this helps show the sheer strength and teamwork of Thanos as we truly see he is not a light villain as his elite team as well is not to be taken lightly after the brutal show of sheer power now leaves the audience with a feeling of dread for what the Avengers may be forced to face.
They really should of went the same route the Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes show went. Hulk and banner make a deal where hulk will fight only if he has complete control of the body as long as banner isn't needed.
Honestly, this video just made "She-Hulk" more fun. Because I now believe that "Smart Hulk" is not just Banner. You can see him here and there in the show. I'll wait until the episodes are all out before judging it in its entirety. But awesome video.
Why isn't this channel 10k subs yet?
Great video sir. Top notch analysis
Great job with this video! May your channel skyrocket because your quality is definitely there.
If battle world appears in Avengers Secret Wars, I hope we see Edward Norton’s Hulk appear just to beat up Smart Hulk to bring back savage Hulk.
oh my, yes! pay money to see that
We can only wish. Throw in Lou ferrigno hulk and 2003 hulk too so they bully him back to savage hulk form lol
They just destroyed my favorite marvel character these 2 guys just raped the HULK mind, body and soul. I hate it hate it! Give the HULK his identity back please! Long live the Incredible One! World breaker Hulk!
Just had this video recommended to me, nice channel man.
Subbed 👌🏻
Holly shit! In all these years I didn't notice that Hulk was missing in the scene after Tony's snap!
They both had a very important relationship together!
Tony teasing him AND trying to help him, they both "talking the same language", they were responsible for Ultron and Vision creation… Bruce SHOULD HAVE been there in that scene with his own dialogue with Tony! 😫
18:22 (Sitting in the back of Bruce’s mind.) Actually, in the comics, that’s exactly how it is. - You’re right, that’s not how they make the movies. But it’s a stronger dynamic from the comics. If you ever read some old school Hulk, check out the green vs grey story lines. (Not sure about the title of that run. Dale Keone (sp) drew it. Grey Hulk and Banner try to keep green Hulk in a door in Banner’s mind. Green Hulk is fully aware that Banner and Grey Hulk hate him … Anyways, GREAT video you have here. I just wanted to point that out.
from the moment hulk tried to smash and looked weak (in hulk form) trying to rage up in endgame. it was bloody obvious what the endgame was (scuse the pun!) for marvels intentions for the hulk from then on.
Everyone seems to forget hulk gains strength and size the angrier he gets...we saw this in Ang Lees Hulk..not a great film due to poor CGI ,but still the only truly comic portrayal made so far),
the point being it means he is the physically strongest (with NO known top limit to it ) of all the mcu heroes and villains bar none! but given that marvel are now " guided by glorious purpose" with their continued insistence on ensuring every frame of film or tv they make nowadays is dripping with "the message" so of course they cant have a strong male character.
Hulk isn't the strongest.
@@deckzone3000 In the comics his physical strength is up there for the heroes
@@deckzone3000 He is one of strongest, he always states that. If you include TOBA Hulk, hes literally the embodiment of God himself, which makes him most powerful in universe.
@@salle6307 Everyone has been God level in comics.
They could totally have given us a standalone Hulk movie explaining what he's doing in those five years
cutting Hulk busting out the Hulkbuster armor and Bruce and him agreeing is the MAIN foundation of Smart Hulk aka Professor Hulk. That was a HUGE MISTAKE on their part.
The more the mechanics of Banner/Hulk's story arc are examined,the more Feige/MCU's legendary ability to keep the different plot and character arcs successfully intertwined breaks down.Maybe a foreshadowing of how everything would completely unravel as phase 4 progressed.
Looking out your other videos and confirm that you are a true fan Hulk ))
Great vid man keep up the quality
You've earned my sub sir....as a hulk fan I have been devastated by his recent outings
Hulk getting the drop on Thanos should have been because of Loki using his magic to conceal him.
That could work. Just show the illusion drop like how Loki’s magic usually does and it would work.
my biggest nitpick is that hulk was literally put on a planet where he is the grand champion of the people. his ego obviously skyrocketed when he saw how much people loved him there, and got used to living like a king. his selfishness is backed up by the fact that everyone looks at him like he’s the greatest idol to ever exist, and instead of being in an a first challenge to overcome situation with abomination he was already a seasoned fighter when he got to thanos and was quite comfortable with the idea of winning every fight, and was shocked by the fact that someone like thanos could defeat him when he literally punched a giant lava monster in the face, and was trapped under the fear that came with the idea that someone that strong was an imminent danger to basically everyone. it was the first time hulk actually felt despair, and didnt know how to deal with it.
Where was he selfish?
Here's how I think they should of handled Hulk's character. When Smart Hulk does the snap, the huge amount of gamma radiation produced by the stones knocks him out, then it cuts to black. Then it cuts to Bruce waking up in some sort of dream world, separated from the hulk personality. He wanders around for a bit and comes across hulk silently staring at a green door. The Hulk personality is noticeably smarter and tells Bruce that he's done being a hero, but Bruce insists that the world needs him. They have a conversation and strike a deal. Hulk will be a hero as long as he has full control. Bruce agrees, and together they walk through the door, causing Smart hulk in the real world to wake up and transform from into a new version of the hulk that's similar to the immortal hulk from the comics.
They needed to cut the scene of him busting out of the Hulk Buster to maintain a consistent tone? Have they never heard of the concept of a Hope Spot or pulling the rug out from under the audience to create a greater impact?
Wonderful analysis. Eventually people are going to admit that Infinity War and Endgame were the MCU equivalents to GoT season 8.
Yeah no. GoT S8 is a dumpster fire in a category of its own.
Maybe endgame but not infinity war
Endgame is like The Last Jedi
I fucking hate the new hulk. I wish they make a movie of planet hulk.
Watched your ep. 9 she hulk review, this came up on auto play had to stop my work because I was very interested. Your videos are awesome. Keep up the great work!!
It was said that bruce has a split personality it is mentioned in the new series She-Hulk but it is also said in avengers 1, bruce talks about how he ate a bullet in human form and transformed into hulk and spat it out. IF bruce truly believes that he has a split personality and is unable to take control in his hulk form then it would make sense to why he is referred to as mindless or dumb.
Edward Norton would never let The Hulk be sacrificed for the story... That's why he parted ways
He insited to add everything that 2008 Hulk made Hulk.
is Ruffalo still talking? why is the Hulk so angry he asks? Ruffalo is obviously not a fan and should jog on.
Outstanding Analysis 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
I love it when you show the Skeksis from 'The Dark Crystal' in between, pretty funny!
They've made Hulk complicated. It's stupid. "You wouldn't like me when I get angry" is said for a reason. Hulk is suppose to emerge when Banner gets angry. The MCU gave him a frickin personality separate from Banner. They are suppose to be the same dam person.
I can't believe they plan on doing a planet hulk film.. like didn't we get that in ragnarok and isn't the conflict within his character solved? What would a planet hulk film be? A goofy knock off of the classic story?
No they want World War Hulk but there's no one to stop him and Ruffalo couldn't pull it off
This just popped up in my recommendeds. To the top with ya!
this is such a good video keep going with this series
Actually, I think the lift/stairs scene was another unnecessary dug at Hulk since all he really had to do was leap down to the ground, either directly or in stages.
Hopefully they will give him something with this whole sakarr thing in she hulk
Let’s hope, but so far the writers have done a crappy job
Mark Ruffalo not knowing why Hulk is angry all the time shows he doesn’t understand the character and thus we’ll never get another good outing from in in the MCU
4:52 Every villain in the MCU is a Worf Effect, that site has a whole section dedicated to the MCU. It's their one card.
Look how they massacred my boy.
The Greatest INSULT The MCU Ever Did To Is Breaking The Hulk's 💪😤!! Although Thanos physically power ( dispike he's moved around sleeveless through most of the 📽️s showing NOTHING but size & strength) HE IS NOT AS STRONG AS HULK!! Because of contractual conflicts at Universal Studios, Thanos' handling of The Infinity Gauntlet is child's play while it's a Life OR Death struggle 4 The Hulk to possess it!
honestly, Ruffalo Hulk before this movie showed a fair amount of battle IQ. When he fights the Hulk buster he throws the car to distract him. he also uses a piece of armor to stab the leviathan.
Wow. Fantastic video! I hope your channel builds man. You’ve got a new sub from me
Would’ve been better if thanos like stabbed hulk through the heart or something which more reasonable than just thanos beating hulk up
Not really. If we going by true nature of Hulk, he would just look at his chest until the wound closes on its own and then send Thanos through the wall. Better way was if Thanos used his stones to knock him out or throw away until he comes back... but thats all "what if" now...
This is a well put together video. Even a child would understand the truth being told here
Great work. Keep going.
Wow you make great and precise points, cuts, and edits. Also cool sona, definitely subscribed and look forward to more of your work. I really wish Hulk was taken with more seriousness, but this was established to fail even in the original Avengers when they set Bruce/Hulk with this love affair with Natalia~ this was not his key to his anger similar to Betty,
removing Betty is removing a KEY characteristic of Hulk&Banner working together. However BOTH before that were proven to be heroic, Bruce got his powers because he wanted to save his friend from the gamma accident. Hulk is often feared as a destructive monster, and during him trying to escape from military who simply want to destroy him out of fear he usually attempts to save innocent people like children stuck in cars, etc.
Something must be wrong with me, I love mcu hulk and I understand most of the things about his character you seem perplexed about. He barely likes thor so if why he would go hard for him like he did for Betty Ross. I've been waiting for smart hulk since 2012.
Another example, during thor ragnarok banner said that thor wasn't his friend, he's banners friend. So it made sense to me that hulk didn't want to be used by the avengers anymore.
@@allenlowe314 go check out his vid on Thor Ragnarok, he does a good job breaking his opinion down. I get what u mean though
@@bottomfeeder7924 definitely respect his opinion. Good to know braise I seem to be one of the only pro hulk guys around lol I feel so wrong lol but I genuinely enjoy the new mcu/ smart hulk.
That's because you are a beta male
My God! She hulk’s gonna ruin you bud! Good luck!
It's clear that Joss Whedon did a better job writing the Hulk because he actually understood the character
I think the issue here is that the Norton-Avenger Hulk is based on the Lou Ferrigno Hulk (Ferrigno even plays the character). It's a Jekyll and Hyde situation where Hulk is essentially Banner with no inhibitions. The Ragnarok Hulk is based on the comics where Banner has DID, and Savage Hulk is a literal toddler. They then proceeded to give him the ending Norton Hulk should have, the ultimate personification of "I'm always angry." He's now always the Hulk with no danger of losing control