Conversation on the war in Gaza with Ilan Pappe and Peter Oborne
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.พ. 2024
- Israeli historian Dr Ilan Pappe and esteemed journalist and author Peter Oborne discussed the war in Gaza, sharing their objective opinions and exploring the past, present, and, most importantly, the future of Israel-Palestine.
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Jews who oppose zionism are some of the most courageous lions you will ever meet
TRAITORS!!
How the Jews are always judged for what they did and not for what was done to them for two thousand years. The State of Israel and the Jews went through occupation, colonialization, imperialism and ethnic cleansing from their country 2500, 0200 and 1500 years ago, and in the last centuries and decades from European and Arab countries.
Al-Aqsa Mosque is the symbol of the occupation that the Jews went through
Not ashamed, and even proud to return to Eretz Yisrael!!!!
Israel is the eternal state of the Jews
The Jews are born in Palestine
Arabic doesn't even have the word P
The Arabs in Israel should return to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt, Moses they came with imperialism
This is justice!!!!
@@YudYud72clever you discovering cut and paste
@@YudYud72 it’s people like you that makes your tribe so hated through thousands of years.
He just bluntly lies
The world owes a huge debt to Ilan Pappé for bringing the truth about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine by the Zionists to the fore. His book on the subject is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand what is still unfolding in Israel. Thank you for this excellent discussion.
Just finished reading it and highly recommend it
he's a fraud! He's a marxist relativist what on earth is oborne doing discussing with him?
...First brings you down with a culture of fighting and slovenly conduct
"Don’t Follow the Red Demon Anymore
Cosmic bodies are decaying in the process of formation, stability, degeneration, and disintegration
Most people in the world are Gods incarnated, seeking the Creator before disaster
Gaining Dafa [Great Law] and remolding your divine bodies-that’s your wish upon coming here
In the treacherous human world, how many can keep their nature amid delusion
People all know the evil Party is bad
Yet they follow along when it lies and persecutes Dafa disciples
All know the evil Party is destroying traditional culture
Why praise it at its feet when it smears history
To ruin the Chinese people so they cannot be saved, the red demon
First brings you down with a culture of fighting and slovenly conduct
Then fills you up with wicked desire for sex, fame, and gain
Before disaster comes, I still want you to hear the truth
As the vow you made before coming to the world was pledged on your life
March 15, 2017"
Master Li Hongzhi (Hong Yin V, from Falun Dafa teachings)
I love talk...the more talk the better we feel about ourselves for doing nothing...
1) 1,9 Billion Muslims talk
2) neighboring Arab/Muslim nations talk
unknown poster: "Stop crying start fighting, go to Gaza help your brothers instead of showing fake sympathy."
❤
I am reading Ilan's book now and indeed it is quite shocking. The world should never have allowed the founding of the state of Israel on Palestinian land.
I'm reading The Ethic Cleansing of Palestine and I can only take small doses. The level of barbarism and violence by European Jews was shocking back then. Hard to get my head around that it continues to this day.
I have the same feeling.
Agreed.
Never Never Never Never....
@@zeniktorres4320 and spare a thought for how patient Palestinians have been through their horrible suffering under israeli occupation and oppression.
@@hitreset0291truth spoken. They have been so enduring and patient
The more I learn about this the more ashamed I am about how much we have let the Palestinians down.
An Israeli academician, Pappe's FACT and EVIDENCE based Academic work is exposing the REAL history of brutal genocide in Palestine by Nisrael since 1940s.
❤❤ RESPECT! ❤❤
I like that. Nisreal. A clever combination of 'Nazi' and 'israel' >> Nisreal.
Clever. Well done.
So apt.
@@YudYud72 and your explanation is why there are protests against israel all around the world. Rightfully so.
@@YudYud72 being oppressed is no excuse to oppress others
A victory over Zionism is a victory for humanity.
A victory over all religion and dogma (Jewish, Islamic, and Christian) is a victory for humanity
How the Jews are always judged for what they did and not for what was done to them for two thousand years. The State of Israel and the Jews went through occupation, colonialization, imperialism and ethnic cleansing from their country 2500, 0200 and 1500 years ago, and in the last centuries and decades from European and Arab countries.
Al-Aqsa Mosque is the symbol of the occupation that the Jews went through
Not ashamed, and even proud to return to Eretz Yisrael!!!!
Israel is the eternal state of the Jews
The Jews are born in Palestine
Arabic doesn't even have the word P
The Arabs in Israel should return to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt, Moses they came with imperialism
This is justice!!!!
@@YudYud72It was never "their country" that's a myth! There were many races inhabiting historical Palestine but for over a thousand generations before the Jews invaded it was predominantly Arab citizens, 94%.
Stop using Jewish trauma to inflict trauma onto another group of people
@@elisg7 Israelis/jews/zionists all need major intensive therapy. They literally haven’t realised that they are just like the abused kid who then abuses his own kids.
In these dark times,these two are torch bearers of Humanity.
How the Jews are always judged for what they did and not for what was done to them for two thousand years. The State of Israel and the Jews went through occupation, colonialization, imperialism and ethnic cleansing from their country 2500, 0200 and 1500 years ago, and in the last centuries and decades from European and Arab countries.
Al-Aqsa Mosque is the symbol of the occupation that the Jews went through
Not ashamed, and even proud to return to Eretz Yisrael!!!!
Israel is the eternal state of the Jews
The Jews are born in Palestine
Arabic doesn't even have the word P
The Arabs in Israel should return to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt, Moses they came with imperialism
This is justice!!!!
@@YudYud72go away
@@YudYud72we are all judged for what we do .
Not what is done to us .
You could have saved your whole cut and paste paragraph
Of random attempts at diversion …
You lost any argument with your opening sentence .
This is SO SAD! Can you imaginne what a beautiful, and amazing Land it could have been
Indeed, you are seeing what Hamas did with all those millions of dollars in 'humanitarian' aid they annually received from Iran and the US
This should be taught in every school. The facts speak for themselves, as long as you read the facts.
Love this guy, just love this guy, the courage not to close your eyes in front of a massive injustice even though it will cost you your whole social life, and will force you into exhile, mind boggling courage. You look at him talk and you instantly know he does not represent any political force, or lobby, or somebody's interests, he simply stands for justice, plain and clear.
Superb interview. Respect to Peter & Ilan for their courage. Every school, college and university campus should listen to this discussion, as well as our spineless sellout politicians who might grow a back bone.
Never underestimate the evilness of zionism...ever.
And Islamic fundamentalism too
@@yf1177 Christian Palestinians are not islamic....
The British has no rights to give away people's land, how are you going to give away things that is not yours
Zionism is a colonising enterprise (Jabotinsky words) so naturally allied in 1917 with the British Empire. However a free Palestine is coming soon as history bends toward justice.
@@RasheedKhan-he6xx
Such a fait accompli argument is at odds with the illegal nature of occupation if the UN creation is deemed legal (which is contested in light of post colonial international law).
Over 50 countries have argued compellingly over the past week against such irrefutably illegal occupation and apartheid.
@@davidmr2121 it’s Israel, who denied two state solution. It was always a raw deal for Palestinians.
Thank you. Love Ilan Pappe, but PLEASE EVERYONE, must Stop saying “it doesn’t justify what they did.” IT ABSOLUTELY DOES JUSTIFY THE RESISTANCE ACTIONS. They wouldn’t have done it otherwise. It will only be worse. Palestine will be free and Zionism will cease to exist😭🙏🏾🇵🇸💕
Long live the resistance!!!!!
I completely agree with you. In the Warsaw Ghetto uprising they were heroes. In the outbreak of Sobitor concentration camp they also were heroes. While I’m sorry people died, if Hamas wouldn’t have rebelled all Palestinians would have been killed, slower but definitely ethnically cleansed, a genocide nevertheless. Two days before Netanyahu moved the music festival next to the wall. Women soldiers monitoring told the government, they chose not to listen. Netanyahu stood before a map erasing all Palestinians proudly discussing the new billion dollar pathway through Gaza. Thousands of settler homes are underway right now. I too wish they stop apologising and profusely.
I’m with you. Yep
@@rhonda6791I'm not disputing or expressing skepticism. But do you have a source for this?
@@rhonda6791 it is so sad that a group of people believe they have the right to exterminate another group of people just so they themselves can live.
No lasting peace will ever exist under this belief.
Excellent discussion. Thank you. At 55 minutes, Elan mentioned that no one in England can imagine what it must have been like for Palestinians going about their business in the 1990s, as they could be challenged at any time by the occupiers. This is not the case in Ireland, where, until the Easter Uprising of 1916 and partial return of our country in 1922, the same applied to Irish citizens in their own land. This is why Ireland, much to its credit, is currently so vocal in support of the Palestinian people’s right to exist.
Remember actions in Ireland, he was called Bloody Balfour for good reasons!
Ilan.
I'm reading my 2nd book of Ilan Pappe: The Biggest Prison on Earth. have so much respect to those Jews and Israelis who speak the truth! His French publisher refused to re-publish The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine! How's that in a democracy?! I
To be fair, Ilan Pappe himself, when asked, said that their contract had expired and that the book would be republished. I bought it from Amazon and had no issues with it.
IIan my family is proud of you. God bless you all.
I thank my lucky stars for Ilan Pappé. There is still hope with people like him. They shine the light for others to follow. I am constantly awaiting his writings/publications/books. He’s a true scholar and activist.
Thank u Ilan Pappe & those like him 👏🏽
Norman Finklestein
Amazing disscussion. Illan papi is a great man.
Indeed a great man
Wow, it's truly unique to see Ilan Pappe, such a wonderful person. Thank you. You can notice that your heart is pure. You have no hate in your bones. May God bless you and grant you a beautiful home in Aljannatul Alfardous ✊🏼💚🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thank you, Peter and Ilan, for this brilliant discussion. I'm sorry people like you have to pay a heavy price for speaking out aganst the evil of Zionism. The world is proud of you❤❤❤
For the longest time I bought into the narrative of plucky Israel. But in the past decade or so. I have learned much about the truth of what the State of Israel is in actuality. And while I do not have the fullness of the truth. What I have learned makes me utterly outraged. Frankly I HATE with a cold passion what has been taking place against the indigenous Palestinians. It seems everything I have been taught about history is pretty much a fantasy. The lies, deceit, deception, fabrication, and so on. Makes me angrier with every bit of new information I find. Like my birth place of South Korea. There should be only one Korea. Once again I found I had been lied to and deceived. I've always asked myself what really happened to Korea. I did not truly buy the "storyline" history I was taught. Too many questions kept popping up for me. This is something I found out happened in every fairy tale that I was told to be history. Even the fantasy history of the USA. I was once a Proud American. But now I know it is all a pack of lies over the death and destruction of millions of lives. Just like what Palestine has been undergoing for nearly 3 quarters of a century. A true story in which much of the non western world has faced and still faces. The HATEFULLY ATROCIOUS WANTS FROM THE DEMONS OF THE SO-CALLED WEST. THE IMPERIALIST DESTROYERS WHO WANT IT ALL. I missed the consequencial meaning of the song from the band Queen. I Want It All. But I now know what the song represents.
So good to see people learning an waking up to oppressors and their lies. More power to you.
Thanks for your words, MarkMahan38! I feel basically the same, deceived, all the lies from the socalled history-lessons, enraged, disappointed in my own people, who applaud a genocide (I am from Holland). Ilan Pappe is my hero for bringing the truth to the surface!
Touché my friend….
I had no strong feelings about Israel and Palestine growing up but When I realised what Israel was and how and why it came about I understood that it had a short term future but not a long term one.
The most dangerous is in the education system. It's all fairy tale and they keep the dirt often the truth under the bed . And when kids grow up . They grow up with this entitlement and narcissistic mentality. Which they will vote for these extremist government who will carry out the modern day genocide that we have today. Absolutely disgusting 😵🤮🤮
A terrific conversation about horrific events. Your courage in excavating the truth is admirable.
Wonderful discussion. Dr Pappé’s depth of knowledge, honesty clarity, wit & humour should be more known and celebrated. Thank you 🙏🏻
Reading „The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” made me realise, that history is repeating itself in 2023/24. The brutal and violent way in which the Palestinians were deliberately made to flee in 1947/48 didn’t actually change in tone 75 years later. Whereas the Palestinian population desired to live in peace with the newly arrived Jewish immigrants, the latter launched the cruelest terrorist assaults on defenceless Arab men, women and children. The ruthless destruction of their beautiful villages in order to establish Jewish settlements on those ruins is heartbreaking. Thank you Ilan Pappe this important historical work. Everybody interested in the historical background of this “conflict” should read it.
No, the change is this is the final Solution that they want to achieve, this is what started way back in 1947, but years before that the zionists planned to create a greater israel.
How the Jews are always judged for what they did and not for what was done to them for two thousand years. The State of Israel and the Jews went through occupation, colonialization, imperialism and ethnic cleansing from their country 2500, 0200 and 1500 years ago, and in the last centuries and decades from European and Arab countries.
Al-Aqsa Mosque is the symbol of the occupation that the Jews went through
Not ashamed, and even proud to return to Eretz Yisrael!!!!
Israel is the eternal state of the Jews
The Jews are born in Palestine
Arabic doesn't even have the word P
The Arabs in Israel should return to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt, Moses they came with imperialism
This is justice!!!!
and the most stupid comment award goes toooooooooooo@@YudYud72
@@YudYud72romantic rubbish. The Ashkenasi Jews in Israel had no connection to Palestine and showed themselves to be murderous colonisers and racists.
@@YudYud72 tr0lls will keep tr0lling
Mashallah, thank you God for Ilan Pappe. ❤️🩹🇵🇸
A must-watch Interview!
Thank You Professor Ilian Pappe
When i grow up i wanna be a Palestine Israel 1948 Historian just like Illan Papper and Norman Finklestein!
From the river to seas, and even the skies, Viva Palestina!
Fidel Castro kicked out rich Cubans & gave rhein their lands to Israeli investors..
How the Jews are always judged for what they did and not for what was done to them for two thousand years. The State of Israel and the Jews went through occupation, colonialization, imperialism and ethnic cleansing from their country 2500, 0200 and 1500 years ago, and in the last centuries and decades from European and Arab countries.
Al-Aqsa Mosque is the symbol of the occupation that the Jews went through
Not ashamed, and even proud to return to Eretz Yisrael!!!!
Israel is the eternal state of the Jews
The Jews are born in Palestine
Arabic doesn't even have the word P
The Arabs in Israel should return to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt, Moses they came with imperialism
This is justice!!!!
Always? Not. Look at history. Tons of books, letters, literature on the topic.
If you don't know how to read or struggle with reading, there are tutors, teachers and programs to help you.
And then there are the books, articles etc.
So, when I was growing up I was beaten regularly ... at home, in school, on the playground. When I grew up, you'll never guess what I did.
I didn't beat anybody up! Imagine that.
So, the Jews were beaten and killed. 5.3 million of them by most counts.
So, what did the offspring and survivors say of those jews do? They beat and tortured and murdered and genocide people like the Palestinians.
They didn't choose a peaceful path. They spread terror. Now they wanna change history so they look like angels and victims.
Read a little. Or a lot. Keep an open mind.
You're confusing being a historian and being an activist. You want to be an activist.
@@YudYud72- wow, a Master of c & c 👍👍👍
Lots of love and respect for the man of inspiration and hope Ilan Pape.
Read his book "ethnic cleansing of palestine" back in 2008. 15 years on nothing much has changed, Israel still does whatever it wants to do
This time around feels different. The status quo has been broken.
Exactly @@hitreset0291
@@hitreset0291Hope you’re right.
@@hitreset0291
Agree
Thé difference is the collapse of U.S. neocon regime and its military weakness and vulnerability contrary to the myth
Always love hearing Ilan Pappe's talk.
Thank-you, Peter Oborne, for having Dr. Pappas for a comprehensive interview in the time allotted, with Q&A afterwards from the students. You are both knowledgeable gentlemen, and your voices, as you know, are very much needed in the world right now.
Ilan Pappe is my hero, really incredible human-being and civil rights activist!!
Pappe is definitely a hero of truth and facts
This was an excellent, highly informative interview of import! Thank-you- especially to Professor Pappe for persevering to relay the files, including years later, and continuing even after persecution. You are a historian who blesses those who hear you.
Excellent discussion. Thank you, Ilan Pappé, for your brilliant work revealing important truths and for your very informative talk. Thank you to Peter Osborne and Taunton School for bringing into context the tragic plight of Palestine past and present. Praying for an end to violence and destruction soon.
The new historians are Ilan Pappe, Avi Shlaim, and Benny Morris. (Before making a U turn and starting to be a Zionist apologist)
Norman Finkelstein is not an Israeli historian. He is an American historian and political scientist and an expert on the subject, too.
Norm Finklestein has been studying this for over 40, I have his book Gaza. Norman qualifies.
@rhonda6791
Of course, Finkelstein is 1000 times better than Morris and more honest. But I'm talking about the term "new historians" which refers to these Israeli historians
A man who didn’t ignore this evidence and took action
A very courageous thing to do, challenging your own culture and upbringing and understanding the facts and the truth
Just bought Mr. Pappe's book. I cannot wait to read it. Freedom for Palestine now. 🇵🇸
Respect guys. Scotland UK 👁️🙏👁️🤗.
This was a fascinating discussion. I've learned so much and will re listen and share. Thank you Ilan and Peter
It's important to know the history to understand the current context. We need more of these types of conversations to shine light on the truth.
Thank you Middle East Eye for an eye-opening lecture. Mr. Pappe is a self-proud Jew.
Such an inspiring story of a courageous Jew. Thank you for standing up to injustice and oppression. It must not be easy. Tell your wife she should be proud of your way of not hating yourself but to be true to yourself!❤
Eloquent and informative
Great program, thank you Ilan and thank you Peter and thank you MEE!
Always love listening to Ilan Pappe. Not enough people like him out here in the West. You keep educating a lot of us my good Sir!
Ilan Pappe is such an incredible person. A jewel in the cause
Thanks for a great discussion. ❤❤❤🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
This discussion was way too short🙇🏽♀️👏🏽👏🏽Just purchased Ilan’s book👍🏽
You will enjoy it but on many levels it's a tough read.
Many thanks to Peter Oborne. What a great interview and discussion, in such a calm manner and all around explaining events, and no pushing of views one is supposed to have. ❤
Very instructive, interesting session of information most people don't know! Thank you. Share!
Thanks for this excellent talk by Ilan Pappe! His comments clearly explain Germany’s insistence on supporting Israel even now as well as the continued complicit silence of Europe. It’s incredible that people don’t seem to learn from history: millions of Jews were killed because of the inaction of the Europeans and now a genocide of the Palestinians is unfolding and they still haven’t taken any action- remember that they are Israel’s biggest trading partner.
But Israel isn't their biggest trading partner. The government in Germany isn't acting in the interest of the German people. It is quite obvious who's benefit they are working for. Just as it's obvious how much Biden or other Western leaders care for their respective people and country. I refrain from commenting on the other parts of what you've written, because it would very likely be deleted.
War no it’s genocide
It isnt a war its a genocide plse think
In a war, usually both sides are states and both are able to acquire weapons without problems. So in that sense I agree, it is one of the technologically best equipped armies in the world attacking a city (and other settlements) without air defence or army, possessing no comparable equipment, no airforce, ships or tanks. Israel is bombing civilian dwellings and infrastructure, using white phosphorus, blocking the delivery of food, water and medical supplies (even Israeli civilians participate in that) and demands support for their actions and sympathy from the world. They don't care about the hostages, have even killed some and the questions about how the 7th of October could have happened are not investigated. Even in this very one-sided conflict the Israeli army has embarrassed itself, when it came to fighting. The only thing they can win , it seems, is dropping bombs on people who cannot defend themselves and planting explosives to demolish whole neighbourhoods. It gives one an impressions of cruel cowardice and sadistic gloating over their victims, that is only worsened by the lies of their atrocity propaganda and the fact that even the crimes so far comitted are not enough for a large part of the Israeli people. It is a huge disappointment. If criticism of something that seems unjust or criminal to me makes me an antisemite, so be it. If wanting a group of Jews to stop murdering innocent people is a criterion for that term to be applied, I'm guilty, but I can't help it. Every people has the right to defend its home country and resist occupation and bombing civilians, shooting, starving or burning them to drive them from their homes is a crime. What Israel is doing is not self-defence, it has gone way beyond retaliation (which also wouldn't have been justified, since they are an occupation force) and it is, at best, ethnic cleansing or worse, genocide. I haven't heard a condemnation from European or American leaders, but I don't expect one to come. They don't care for their own people, the ones that it would be their duty to work for, so why would they care for Palestinians. We know who these presidents and prime ministers care and work for. They have made it obvious to the whole world.
TXH a lot for this very important conversation🙏🏻I have great respect for Illan Papé and your chanel as well🙏🏻🌹🇵🇸
Two remarkable men, oozing humanity and sharing the truth 👏🏽 🙌🏽 ❤️
I would love ❤️ to read this book by Ilan Pappe. However, not now. My emotions, my energy, my time is for now dedicated to supporting the Palestinians in whatever way possible.
Ilan Pappe's work is brilliant. He is a truly remarkable man.
You are couragious man while most are coward and complicit to tell the truth. Much respect.
Learn something new every day. Thank you for this 😊
Thank you for being on the right side of history
Wow thank you both so much for your service to humanity🙏❤️
In the 60's we all read Exodus and saw the movie with Paul Newman and believed Israel was heroic.
Thank you.
" The first time the phrase “human animal” was recorded in history was by himmaliar, in The Posen speech to SS officers (6 October 1943) - On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians.
Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1
According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total. On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1
When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1
From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations.
A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower.
The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest.
The reported ages of the victims are as follows:
0-4: 2 civilians
5-12: 8 civilians
13-17: 14 civilians
18-25: 132 civilians
26-40: 119 civilians
41-60: 55 civilians
61+: 40 civilians
Active duty military personnel:
18-25: 258 active duty military personnel
26-40: 60 active duty military personnel
41-60: 17 active duty military personnel
61+: 1 active duty military personnel
haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr
There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%"
-Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well'
-Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband'
Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh
UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023:
2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440.
2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255.
2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492.
2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300.
2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138.
2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30.
2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349.
2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191.
2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227.
civilian deaths on the other side -
2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9
2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26
Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel.
Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc
The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Yinon Plan.
I would add that of the people killed on the 7th of October, a lot were not even killed Al-Quassam or other Palestinians, but by the IDF itself. That was confirmed by statements of tank crews, reports by Israeli survivors and the amount of destruction on cars and buildings that couldn't have been caused by the lightly armed Palestinians.
And referring to people as animals was not Himmler's idea. I guess, the first such usage was before writing was even invented.
For October 7th, Haaretz database, which I unlike you visited only a few days ago show your civilian deaths undercounted by a 100 and your military deaths overcounted by a 100. That is a civilian to military ratio of 2:1. Not 1,4:1. A terrible ratio indicative of many atrocities.
You are also downplaying the israeli civilian deaths by calling them collateral, when many of the deaths were instead indiscriminate or targeted.
You know this by now, but insist on publishing numbers that are incorrect.
As for israeli deaths resulting from IDF fire on October7th, only a minor number has so far been attributed to it
@hakanpetersson2662
no, i actually analysed the data.
@@mznxbcv12345 you said yourself that you made the analysis on October 26th. Do yourself a favor now and revisit Haaretz, because they do NOT have those figures today.
The inventory of the villages…isn’t that what ethnographers did in colonial Africa as well?! In early 20th Century especially British anthropologists collected information for the Government in order to support Colonial rule.
Peter Osborne is the bomb 💣👋🏾👋🏾✊🏽🙋🏽♀️🇺🇸
He should get rid of his shabby army jacket…
❤ Ilan Pappe
A MUST-watch Interview 💯💯
If you read the works of Jabotisnky, you will realize the evilness of Zionism.
Very true. Zionist history is ugly.
How the Jews are always judged for what they did and not for what was done to them for two thousand years. The State of Israel and the Jews went through occupation, colonialization, imperialism and ethnic cleansing from their country 2500, 0200 and 1500 years ago, and in the last centuries and decades from European and Arab countries.
Al-Aqsa Mosque is the symbol of the occupation that the Jews went through
Not ashamed, and even proud to return to Eretz Yisrael!!!!
Israel is the eternal state of the Jews
The Jews are born in Palestine
Arabic doesn't even have the word P
The Arabs in Israel should return to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt, Moses they came with imperialism
This is justice!!!!
Totally correct amd his name is on more buildings and roads in Israel than any other figure of history.
@@YudYud72
🤦🏻 Again
Repeating the same propaganda robotically
@@YudYud72 Your comment only underscores the horrendous irony of the actions of the current faxxist regime in tel aviv. You don't get to use your trauma to destroy other people. And lastly, Jews lived with Muslims and Christians peacefully. We're talking about zayos.
Sept. 29, 1947 was basically the last day of Palestine as the UN declared a 'partitioning'. 1948 was the Nakba. Israel has never had a constitution or recognized the unfair borders it received, it is not a democracy.
Chapeau Ilan Pappe! Thank you!
Great talk. I learned a lot.
I’d love to see Ilan in person. Is he appearing on any public discussions like this? Maybe Novara Media could host? Love you too Peter ❤🫶🏽🇵🇸
Were I to express the views of Ilan Pappe and the following distinguished Jewish/Israeli historians, thinkers and public intellectuals, I would undoubtedly be labeled as antisemitic. This is completely absurd: Ilan Pappe of Exeter University; Avi Shlaim of Oxford University; Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University; Norman Finkelstein, formerly of dePaul University and - OF COURSE - Naom Chomsky. These thinkers do have some minor distinctions, but each shares with the others a clear understanding of the oppression of the Plaestinian peoples over the past nearly 80 years since the Nakba. Isreal is a late Settler Colonial state imposed upon an indigenous people who had dwelt in that land for thousands of years and who comprised Muslims, Jews, Christains living in peaceful amity within the Ottoman. domain. These Jewish thinkers stand in the great tradition of Jewish independent minded (one might say "prophetic" ) searchers after Truth & Justice: Isaiah, Spinoza; Marx. Trotsky. The current equation of Anti-Zionism and Antisemitism = making them interchangeable synonyms - recalls a MacCartyite witchhunt.
Antisemitism was turned into a weapon. It is finally being decontructed..
An excellent comment.
Thank you so much for this education!
👌Ilan Pappe.
You know see the pressure against Jeremy corbyn
Ilan Pappe is such a great man. Apart from being an incredible scholar , he is a brave and humane person.
FREE PALESTINE!❤🖤🤍💚
I LoVE this man!!!!❤
Thank you for offering this discussion with such an esteemed academic.
But I have a question: As mentioned in the ICJ testimony of the representative from China, a people experiencing illegal occupation are, under international law, permitted to use necessary means to counter that occupation, including armed struggle. So what kind of armed resistance could the besieged and occupied people of Palestine have undertaken that would not be considered reprehensible? And how shall we determine the facts surrounding any such action?
I have nothing but respect, admiration and gratitude for Peter and Ilan
Thank you. A very moving and tragic story. Get the book please. 🥺
An informative conversation. Many thanks 😊
God Bless him. He is risking his life for the truth.
The right and wrong of this issue is clear. Even to those who deny it. The question is how to resolve the situation. What influence and power can be brought to bear to force a just settlement. The French had more colonists in Algeria than the Zionists now have in Palestine. Yet all of those French colonists were removed. So those who say that Israeli settlements in the West Bank are a fait accompli that cannot be undone are demonstrably wrong. The Algerians now control their own state and the French are gone. But as a European (British) I worry that whether the Jews leave Palestine or the Palestinians leave, many will end up in my country and hostilities will flare between them. And of course their old enmities will be brought onto the streets of my country. Though to what extent I can even call Britain _my_ country any more is a moot point.
The Brits never stopped amazing me with the level of stupidity by which they ruled their colonies.
British politicians have already been bought and paid for by Israel. Dont you already hear the ANTI islamic rhetoric flying about. Even the peace marches are being branded as HATE marches.
Ilan is an amazing human. Such dedication to such a humanitarian cause for so long. What a privilege it is to hear him speak.
Great Conversation 👍 ❤
Excellent discussion. Thank you for being in the right side of thr history.
Wow ! Thank you
If only supporters of Israel would listen to this interview...
So true…. But you will hardly find one, who is upright enough to face facts - most Israeli are completely brainwashed by Israel propaganda……
They discredit everyone who is against Zionists. Finkelstein, Pappe, Mate, Butler, rabbi Weiss, all of them have already been discredited by the Zionists. Because, that is all that they can do...
Thank you for sharing, I have a lot of respect for Ilan Pappe😊
i worry about Illan Pappe's health. Please stay safe.
Amazing ❤
Thank you Illan Pappe’ for very informative discussion
Very informative and intelligent discussion! Thank you 💓🇵🇸
The Palestinians don't have fighter jets, attack helicopters, battleships, or even one single fk'n tank. So they don't have the luxury of blowing the bodies of the women and children apart from a comfort distance away.
However, Hamas has the unfortunate reality of needing to inflict pain on Israel's citizens in a very personal and traumatic way, for both the victims and the perpetrators.