You can boil anything down to "this thing was made to control the masses". The difference is, being a "slave" to Christ is much better than being a slave to political parties or the passions.
I think it was both. They meant for it to aid in forced assimilation but they forgot to actually read it 1st. Unintended consequences of their actions😂
Honestly, I don't know what people's problems are. We Christians get a lot of hate, and IP is correct in stating those two narratives. First narrative, people are like "you guys are brainwashed into being slaves, that's not okay, I don't want to be a slave to some leader's morals". Second scenario, "how dare you oppress others with your morals, you have a stupid Cult and want to brainwash the world with your violent, outdated and extremist values". Mate, in both narratives this "oppressive" manifesto of morals that we're either slaves to or we are brainwashing others into is: loving thy neighbour, being kind to all people, equality. If you call these values extremist or me a slave for following them, it is not me that has the problem :/ ...
Everyone is a slave, either of sin or of righteousness. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. Rom 6:16-18
Yeah and it's interesting that refusing to bow down and worship someone other than God would be labeled as "slave morality". That's boldness and loyalty, that's not slavery 🙌
"slave morality" is usually a reference to Nietzsche. He argues for a master morality centered around gaining power, and a slave morality centered around pretending power was "evil". So if you advocated "equality" that'd be an example of slave morality. He thought only the weak would aim for equality. All that talk of the "last coming first" and the "Meek inheriting the earth" Nietzsche thought was the kind of things the weak and oppressed would label as "good".
@@latenightorange4439 How is it no one can agree on what the Bible truly means even though it was written down (as shown with the tens of thousands of different denominations)?
@@latenightorange4439 Nietzsche was a complex, nuanced thinker, never absolving any side, even his side, of the moral shortcomings logically inherent. I think Beyond Good and Evil is a good example of this. He throws criticisms at both Christians and secularists, though he leans in favor of the secularists. His writings reflect a manic, if inconsistent, philosophy, as if he is arguing with himself.
@latenightorange4439 I teach philosophy. Nietzsche is complicated at times, but not on this issue. My suspicion is that inspiringphilosphy just didn't know much about Nietzsche and thought "slave morality" just meant something like "slavery promoting mentality".
@@jimmyfaulkner1855 Yeah that doesn't work. What holds all of those denominations together? Christ's resurrection. Every Christian believes that single fact, and faith in that alone is what saves. We're not saved because we picked Baptist over Lutheran, we are saved because of what Christ did. And every Christian agrees on that.
Ah yes when Christ offers you the free gift of being his sons & daughters and gives salvation to all those who accept his invitation to the vineyard. Skeptic: "sLaVeRy"
To be fair, Scripture calls believers "slaves to righteousness" and "slaves of God." It does also say that slave traders will not enter the kingdom of God, though. So it's hard to argue that Jesus promoted chattel slavery.
@@cygnusustus well you are invoking metaphysics for example truth and lies are metaphysics. Truth and lies Beliefs Morality Honesty These all are metaphysics which in your atheistic worldview you can't even justify. These things don't exist scientifically. So stop stealing it from theist worldview. And be honest.
He means something very different from Nietzsche though, in fact almost the opposite, so I'm pretty sure he only read the headline, so to speak. Nietzsche's criticism ultimately understood Christianity much better, and he called it slave morality because it promoted helping the poor, enslaved, weak and oppressed.
Some of those Christian abolitionists lived and hid slaves in my home town. I’m a teacher and every year we go on a walking field trip to show our students where many of these Underground Railroad heroes lived and are buried. Thanks for teaching the truth to our youth Michael! P.S. Why does that guy eerily look like Vigo from Ghost Busters II? 🤔
As a very skeptic person I believe in Jesus because he gives me a feeling of completeness unrivaled and unexplained peacefulness when I draw near him,Blessed be the Lord
Almost anything could be used similarly. Like Goku. Speaking of that... Goku: Saves the world not just once, but multiple times. Also Goku: Dosen't desire or expect, let alone demand or require, worship.
@wet-read no it's not that silly,I'm talking about physical feeling,even after achieving dreams,feeling pleasure and any thing in this world.There is a longing and I just can't explain that this longing that I feel is satisfied it feels way better,unexplainable,its not that I'm thinking of our Lords Greatness and all he's done but,more like a prescence it's like missing something Call me klutz but it's like I'm missing someone....I don't believe in our Lord because of evidence or because I like the concept,I believe in God because it just feels right after running from several things only to be scarred on what I think I needed...it was him who came to me when I needed him most...it felt like pins and needles in my body with peace flowing alongside my tears...Anyways I just came to share one of my wonderful experiences on my walk with Him...May God bless you
Christianity was central for both slavers and anti-slavers. Christianity was the overarching political power where slavery occurred. If Christianity was abolitionist, why did the West, who has been Christian for most of its history, even became slave-based in our contemporary age? All slavers were Christian within a Christian nation and within an overarching Christian culture. The debate was not done between Christian aboliltionist vs non-Christian slavers. It was done amongst Christian abolitionists and Christian slavers, both using their culture, intepretation and Scripture as the basis of their movement. But the term "slave morality" is much more subtle and complex than mere "morality to have slaves". For example, Christianity has a hierarchical structure of power that does indeed control Earthly behaviour and power by appeals to a metaphysical, otherworldly realm of consequences(both positive and negative). This is internalized as well as external. The powerful is convinced of negating its own power, self-sacrificing and serving God, the present immanent realm and power is negated for the individual in the name of a transcendental realm, and usually also by transferring the power within the immanent realm from the individual into the power structure, like the Church. I do not understand why this is even controversial. It is quite clearly the Christian narrative, the difference being that the Christian maintains that such sacrifice is required by the ruler of the transcendental, and that there is indeed a transcendental realm of consequences, forces and meaning. This, to the Christian legitimizes such transference of power and self-denial of the flesh and of the Earthly kingdom in pursuit of the benefit of eternal soul in the Heavenly kingdom. The skeptic delegitimizes this move by either being skeptical of the Heavenly kingdom or denying it, and therefore focusing and placing all value within the evident, immanent kingdom. This is deeply profound and ought to be object of study and analysis for both the religious and the skeptical
@@natanaellizama6559 Slavery pre-dates Christianity by millennia. It seems to have been a fairly universal institution, and the earliest recorded statement that slavery is immoral comes from an early Christian who thought this for purely theological reasons. Christianity seems to have been a significant factor in the transition from Greco-Roman slavery to Medieval Serfdom, long before the abolitionist movemen arose. And why are you defining "slaver" to mean "people who bought or owned slaves", but not to mean "people who forced people into slavery"? Why are the pagan and Muslim Africans who supplied the slaves used in the Americas not culpable? And your talk about Christian morality in general requires you to ignore a large number of Bible passages which say that our relationship with God is like that of a child with their father.
@@natanaellizama6559The same thing happened to atheists who turned to far Left cults (communism) in places like the Soviet Union. They became far more brutal and evil than both the Crown and Church. Their hatred of the previous dominant culture made them do wicked things against their own people, all while proclaiming that religion was the source of oppression and evil. Even leftists who activated and participated in the French Revolution quickly became like their enemy by murdering their way to obtain the throne. The spread atheist thought ENCOURAGED the butchery and evil, such as the theory of evolution, Supermen (Nietzsche), and Karl Marx.
Exactly, Nietzsche arguably has one the worst impacts on Western culture. Religion and ethnic/regional identities are required to keep societies functioning and without both you cannot expect to have an identity. Nietzsche might consider himself "free" from the "bondage" of those things, but ultimately your ethno-religious heritage is irreplaceable and any attempt by man to seek an alternative to that heritage is necessarily going to be a slave to whatever he believes that alternative is. You can clearly see on every picture taken of Nietzsche that he is miserable and empty while his misplaced superiority complex over others who are "slaves" to Christianity is the only thing that can give him some consolation.
@@williamkennedy2474Bruh, Nietzsche wasn’t advocating for any specific moral philosophy. He wasn’t an ideologue. He was just diagnosing the problems of modernity and the consequences of the enlightenment. He wasn’t advocating for a new morality; he was offering a solution to how we could go about living in a world that has fallen into nihilism and materialism (things that he detested).
Everyone is a slave to something, human beings are naturally obsessive. That thing can be passions and desires, fictitious worlds, power, anything. The good thing is unlike most slaves, we get to choose our master, so do you choose to dedicate yourself to something created by human beings or the Creator of human beings?
Ah yes, the religion that teaches to obey God before men and to answer to the authority of other men only if this authority doesn't conflict with Scripture is somehow a religion that teaches slave-like obedience to the wills of our fellow man.
Once a student of mine (atheist) after 2 minute, when I started to explane Nietzsche, she said that is impossibile what Nietzsche said about Christian morality because she thinks that christians has a lot of power.
I don’t know why that guy is hell bent on perpetuating ignorance. Even as an agnostic atheist I never made such stupid arguments against Christianity. I would play devils advocate against all ontological positions, but I made sure that my arguments were not fallacious, and that I understood certain metaphysical, moral/pragmatic concepts well enough to not straw-man their positions; the white haired guy doesn’t know basic history either.
I think the point is that a non-violent attitude leads to oppression because ruthless enemies can win through violence. I think though that non-violent resistance if done by strong minds can be extremely powerful whereas violence can justify more violence from the people who want to use violence in the first place.
Didn't jesus tell the apostles to sell their shirt to buy a sword if they did not have one already? Just asking. Peaceful discourse is ideal, but you need strength to maintain peace.
@@Verbalaesthet the sword is to defend, you may say to turn the other cheek. There is a time for that, but we mustn't bow to evil. If swords and guns are required so be it, but only as a last resort. In short, don't be a pacifist, be peaceful. They are not the same.
1 Peter 2:18 Jesus said: "Slaves submit to your masters with all respect, not only the ones who are consistent but also to those who are cruel." This is just a small taste of the vile things the bible promotes, I'll let you find more for yourself, assuming you even read the bible.
Other religions (specifically Islam) criticize Christianity (specifically Protestants) for being too lax. "You don't have to pray x-amount of times a day, or do such-and-such fast, ect.." So is Christianity the most relaxed and freeing religion in the world, or a slave religion?
This is a tough conversation to have, but traditionally in times of American slavery, the slave masters would use ideals found in the bible to justify their actions and control of other people. Would also indoctrinate the people they owned into this mentality, making them think they were making their lives better by controlling them. It's a far more nuanced discussion to have honestly.
You can use anything to justify your sin. But the bible was the reason ANYONE ever decided slavery was inhumane. Without Christianity slavery would still continue. No one else found an issue with it. The first to fight against slavery were Christians, precisely the Quakers.
@epic7224 I understand that, but the issue is that the Bible isn't clear that slavery is a sin. Passages like Ephesians 6:5: “Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ.” have been specifically troubling in my spiritual journey
@@redhood5264Remember to take in to account the culture and time that the Bible was written in. There was not a revolution to end slavery thousands of years ago. Slavery was still the main economy of the world at that time. Slavery was not always bad for the slave either. Those with decent masters had somewhere to sleep and to eat. The Bible may not have explicitly taught against slavery but it does explicitly teach radical love, therefore any christian master is just as commanded to love as the rest of us. If the master was not christian, any evil that he commits against his slave will be judged by God Himself.
@@Cuhpri so then it raises the question of, based on what you said, do you think that Ethical Slavery can exist, so long as both the Master and Slave are both Christian?
@@redhood5264 If it was the slave's will to become a slave then given the premise I would say yes. Not every slave is forced into bondage. Neither is all bondage evil. For example: You are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.
@@babotondSo listening to a satanist giving his views on Christianity and why is bad is like asking an Eastern therapist why is sucking papaya mixed with Goji berry a better alternative than the reattachment of an amputated leg!
The concept of society itself can be considered a slave morality, binding you to its own rules and threatening you with punishment if you violate them.
This guy also agues against a wrong definition of the Christian salvation. Christians believe in salvation trough grace. That's a key difference to a lot of other religions. People aren't able to earn salvation trough good deeds. The good deeds are an organic result of receiving the divine freedom and love of God, which changes the person from inside out. This religions whole premise is being freed out of slavery of sin and death.
You should take on Nietzsche’s work. The “slave morality” as I understood is claiming to be “morally superior” than strong and successful because we feel weak and feel resentment towards them. I think it is a temptation that we Christians must avoid. How many have had the little thought : I don’t care if I lose against him in this life because I’ll go to heaven and he’ll go to hell.
Also Christianity is not based on good works at all but rather it's all about Christ and through rebirth and salvation. Good works naturally come forth as our desires have changed
The slave morality thing comes from Nietzsche, though he was not as critical of Christianity as many of his fans. He taught that Christianity taught a slave morality which was in contradiction to and rightly critical of traditional pre-Christian master morality. Advocating for a synthesis of the two. The problem with this assessment by Nietzsche is that Christianity already is the natural synthesis or more accurately correction of slave & master morality. As both of the moralities existed before Christianity. In master/slave morality, master’s rule and slaves obey. In Christian morality the ADMINISTRATOR and the SERVENT are brothers and ultimately equals. God alone rules and among his decrease are that we rule ourselves and serve one another. Another is that those who are given the power to act as administrators over this earth must be servants to its people. In Christian morality administrator’s serve but must also rule over themselves so as not to try and usurp the role of master from the one true and only master. God, and his many names. Truth, Love, Honor, Justice, ect. Thus did Nietzsche fundamentally misunderstand Christianity, and so to, do all of the students of his philosophy. Though many among them are even more off the mark than Nietzsche himself, as they don't really understand that him calling Christianity as "slave morality" was as much a compliment as an insult in his mind. As he saw it as the counterpoint to ancient master morality, and the next step in the development of his "Ubermench" which are not to be confused with the Nazi's idea of the Ubermench, even if they did lift the idea from him. As his vision and theres where very different.
Rodney Stark in his "The Triumph of Christianity" writes, "ALL CLASSICAL SOCIETIES WERE slave societies-both Plato and Aristotle were slave-owners, as were most free residents of Greek city-states. In fact, all known societies above the very primitive level have been slave societies-even many of the Northwest American Indian tribes had slaves long before Columbus’s voyage. Amid this universal slavery, only one civilization ever rejected human bondage: Christendom. And it did it twice! Elsewhere I have told the story of how slavery reappeared and then was prohibited in the Western Hemisphere.47 But the very first time slavery was eliminated anywhere in the world was not during the “Renaissance” or the “Enlightenment,” but during the “Dark Ages.”
Hi, IP. What would you say to someone who says that Christians are only good to avoid going to Hell? I see those who subscribe to Penal Substitution accepting Christ so as to not go to Hell. Is that for a selfish reason? Sinful selfishness. I prefer the Christus Victor theory and that Hell isn’t a place where you want to avoid judgment but a place to avoid an identity of sin like you said. It makes more sense to me.
I know that you’re not supposed to live your life in worry of going to Hell. You know that God and His way of salvation are reliable, and you examine your character and know you are saved. I think Christians who follow Penal Substitution are still moral in their thinking. They want to follow Christ out of a moral desire. They don’t want to go to Hell because it is scary but would be willing to go because it would be just (if that was the only way, if Jesus couldn’t die for us), but they know that it is also just for Christ to voluntarily pay the fine for us, so they accept it.
As a side-note, someone who says that Hell was created to scare people is wrong in thinking that it scares people into being good, because they want to be good because of Christ, and as I demonstrated they don’t need to live their lives in worry of Hell. It should scare people because those are the consequences of sin and building an identity away from God.
No, we’re not slaves, we want to be like our father in heaven who is the most merciful. And God is definitely the most merciful, for the fact that he gave us his son while we were still sinners, and also he hasn’t judged those who dwell on the earth yet. God Is better and more patient than anyone could imagine, and we want to be like him. People who think the way that guy is thinking, they do not know God. God is salvation.
It can be both narratives. Why not? Most movements have multiple narratives and attitudes. But we also need to be careful of what we mean by "slave morality". One interpretation means that it is a morality that turns you into a slave, and the other is a morality that is focused on the slave. For example, Nietzsche spoke of Christianity as a slave morality in the sense that it was an ethos that was focused on the weak, and so the standard of the "good" was that which aided the weak, even at the expense of the strong. Nietzsche stated that this, in turn, enslaved the powerful through a narrative of sacrifice for another life. A ruler has to sacrifice one's own power to the benefit of the masses either due to a service to a Ruler above the ruler or due to a benefit beyond this life. This seems pretty accurate. On another note, one could interpret the slave morality as also enslaving people by the same token and not focused on the "weak" but focusing on the afterlife, negating one's own power not in benefit of the material Other, but through the of enslavement towards the narrative. An example of this would be a fear-based or rewards-based trying to be virgin until marriage, maybe failing and then feeling so much shame. Or being homosexual and constantly repressing oneself in fear of being punished.
Christianity specifically mentions that we are free to make our own choices, even to sin (which however comes with consequences). This is encapsulated in the biblical story of Adam and Eve tasting the forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden
Actually the words were “slave morality”. To a degree the guy in the vid is right. I don’t know many Christians who can have a conversation about morality without “God says so” being the baseline argument.
Yes, but they can't be expected to think of themselves as slaves if they do not feel oppressed. Because all of this stuff is happening in their minds, it is abstract, and they can think and feel about it however very easily. I think that's how they can reconcile the notion of their nonbelieving friends and family winding up in a state of ECT after they die while they go somewhere better instead when *they* die. Or how the idea of all of reality being contaminated by one event long ago such that we are all equally tainted by default and in need of a savior isn't seen as ridiculously absurd, repulsive, and totally unfair.
One has to choose their master. I'd rather have a master filled with mercy, beauty, and righteous judgement, with the power, intelligence, and presence to hold up that title than believe I am free by believing narcissistically that I am without flaw and needing of guidance.
This notion that it is one or the other is absurd. I don't need or desire a master, but that dosen't mean I believe I am without flaws and without need of any guidance.
@@drakeknight7646 Whatever. Look, everyone has dispositions and finds themselves in certain circumstances, which together or even on their own can either be or seem binding and limiting. I'll give you that. It's true for us all.
Even if I steelman him and assume he means that all will be under Christ as head, it uses the equivocation fallacy to equivocate servitude under Christ as the same as chattel slavery everyone abhors today. Paul’s idea of servitude is based on the Roman system, in which Christ is the supreme patron and the apostles and followers as clients. It’s dishonest and frankly, I would assume the person would rather be destroyed and free than living eternity with Christ.
People making this type of argument remind me of an undergraduate who just took his first religious studies course and has projected his childhood disdain for many things onto the religion of his choosing. He probably grew up without a dad (or without a decent dad) and was probably dragged to church by his grandmother from time to time. They probably paddled him when he acted out, and now he hates Christianity and has clothed that hatred in pseudo-intellectualism. This is more common than most people realize. Which is probably why this argument (from Nietzsche, a total train wreck of a human being) has been repeated over and over. It appeals to a particular set of people.
Ephesians 6 1 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
"Use the oppress the masses" yet the doctrine of heaven, good works, and surrounding yourself to Christ were the same now as its first 300 years of existence.
I disagree with this one in the sense that Nietzsche is the guy who popularized “slave morality” in The Genealogy of Morals, and he makes tons of fair points. For example: Paul literally opens his letters with “My fellow slaves of Christ.” I’ve also never found the “abolitionists were Christian” argument worth much since most people were nominally Christian during the antebellum period and inclined to recruit the Bible to support their opinions. Southern theologians clearly had more intuitive proof texts since both the Old and New Testament were slave cultures and God dictates slave prices directly to Moses.
Sometimes you got to just give them the word IP ❤ Romans 6:18 KJV - Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Romans 6:20 KJV - For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. Romans 6:22 KJV - But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Romans 6:23 KJV - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Also, please tell me where we are promised "eternal life for good behavior." The Bible is very clear that we cannot "earn our way into heaven," it is only through faith we are saved.
Freedom from drug addiction was pretty nice for me. ❤✝️
Congrats
Yup
Same
Aw that's nice. 🙂
Nonono! you mean slavery to being clean!
satanist criticized Christianity ?
imagine my shock
😂😂😂😂
Thats Kane haveing a tantrum
😂😂😂😂
@thewanderer797May I ask, what cult? I am kinda worried
@thewanderer797 He's not really the leader, he's just the poster boy.
You can boil anything down to "this thing was made to control the masses".
The difference is, being a "slave" to Christ is much better than being a slave to political parties or the passions.
That's why Jesus didn't call it slavery because being a slave to Christ is the freest we can be. And being slave to our sins the least free we can be.
I think it was both. They meant for it to aid in forced assimilation but they forgot to actually read it 1st. Unintended consequences of their actions😂
Honestly, I don't know what people's problems are. We Christians get a lot of hate, and IP is correct in stating those two narratives. First narrative, people are like "you guys are brainwashed into being slaves, that's not okay, I don't want to be a slave to some leader's morals". Second scenario, "how dare you oppress others with your morals, you have a stupid Cult and want to brainwash the world with your violent, outdated and extremist values". Mate, in both narratives this "oppressive" manifesto of morals that we're either slaves to or we are brainwashing others into is: loving thy neighbour, being kind to all people, equality. If you call these values extremist or me a slave for following them, it is not me that has the problem :/ ...
It's kinda iffy to word it that way, since earnest Christians, or even Christians who doubt at times, don't think of it as being analogous to slavery.
Better to be a "slave" to Christ than a slave to my human desires any day.
Slave Morality is a philosophical concept created by Nietzsche; it's not about literal slavery
Yeah, let’s not listen to Lucius Malfoy and instead listen to actual facts. Thanks IP
Bro lost dobby then said "if i can't have one nobody can"
😂😂😂❤
I had no clue who Lucious Malfoy was. Had to look it up, but that was funny.
@@battlepigglet6342 A joke this good does not deserve to be so hidden.
best Comment!!!
Honestly if I have to be a slave I think heaven would be worth it
Ok be my slave, and I promise you I'll send you to heaven.
I am a happy an joyful Christian an Jesus gave me this. So if this is slavery I will take it. Also I am like you if it was it be worth it.
Everyone is a slave, either of sin or of righteousness.
Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Rom 6:16-18
@@jncon8013 do you force yourself to think this way or do you come to this conclusion
Yeah and it's interesting that refusing to bow down and worship someone other than God would be labeled as "slave morality". That's boldness and loyalty, that's not slavery 🙌
I am a happy an joyful Christian. I am not oppressed at all. I love Jesus He puts joy in our hearts
I will pray for all Christians as Righteous people God save the Christians
"slave morality" is usually a reference to Nietzsche.
He argues for a master morality centered around gaining power, and a slave morality centered around pretending power was "evil".
So if you advocated "equality" that'd be an example of slave morality. He thought only the weak would aim for equality. All that talk of the "last coming first" and the "Meek inheriting the earth" Nietzsche thought was the kind of things the weak and oppressed would label as "good".
How is it no one can agree on what Nietzsche believed even though he wrote it all down???
@@latenightorange4439 How is it no one can agree on what the Bible truly means even though it was written down (as shown with the tens of thousands of different denominations)?
@@latenightorange4439 Nietzsche was a complex, nuanced thinker, never absolving any side, even his side, of the moral shortcomings logically inherent. I think Beyond Good and Evil is a good example of this. He throws criticisms at both Christians and secularists, though he leans in favor of the secularists. His writings reflect a manic, if inconsistent, philosophy, as if he is arguing with himself.
@latenightorange4439
I teach philosophy. Nietzsche is complicated at times, but not on this issue.
My suspicion is that inspiringphilosphy just didn't know much about Nietzsche and thought "slave morality" just meant something like "slavery promoting mentality".
@@jimmyfaulkner1855 Yeah that doesn't work. What holds all of those denominations together? Christ's resurrection. Every Christian believes that single fact, and faith in that alone is what saves. We're not saved because we picked Baptist over Lutheran, we are saved because of what Christ did. And every Christian agrees on that.
Ah yes when Christ offers you the free gift of being his sons & daughters and gives salvation to all those who accept his invitation to the vineyard.
Skeptic: "sLaVeRy"
Skeptics belong modern day slavery so I feel no pity for them
When did you ever meet him?
To be fair, Scripture calls believers "slaves to righteousness" and "slaves of God." It does also say that slave traders will not enter the kingdom of God, though. So it's hard to argue that Jesus promoted chattel slavery.
@@BenjaminAnderson21 to be fair to that we still put people in prison, that is still form of chattel slavery
Yah, we are saved by grace and the atheist dude think we are saved by our good actions 😂
As a Christian slave, I am happy to serve an awesome Master who loves me! ❤️ 😁
I will never knee to your childish make believe
@@cygnusustusYou are either a slave of righteousness or a slave to sin. You can't escape that.
@@cygnusustusplus aren't you a slave to your own thinking?
@@cygnusustus yes you are slave to your all the metaphysics. Let that sink in.
@@cygnusustus well you are invoking metaphysics for example truth and lies are metaphysics.
Truth and lies
Beliefs
Morality
Honesty
These all are metaphysics which in your atheistic worldview you can't even justify. These things don't exist scientifically. So stop stealing it from theist worldview. And be honest.
I didn't know Lucius Malfoy liked Nietzsche. Who could have imagined it?
He means something very different from Nietzsche though, in fact almost the opposite, so I'm pretty sure he only read the headline, so to speak.
Nietzsche's criticism ultimately understood Christianity much better, and he called it slave morality because it promoted helping the poor, enslaved, weak and oppressed.
"Slave Morality" because I wanna do whatever the hell I want whether it's right or wrong.
Some of those Christian abolitionists lived and hid slaves in my home town. I’m a teacher and every year we go on a walking field trip to show our students where many of these Underground Railroad heroes lived and are buried. Thanks for teaching the truth to our youth Michael!
P.S. Why does that guy eerily look like Vigo from Ghost Busters II? 🤔
Lol, these folks always make me laugh. Bless their hearts 😂
"Pick a narrative!" , Couldn't have said it better myself
As a very skeptic person I believe in Jesus because he gives me a feeling of completeness unrivaled and unexplained peacefulness when I draw near him,Blessed be the Lord
Almost anything could be used similarly. Like Goku. Speaking of that...
Goku: Saves the world not just once, but multiple times.
Also Goku: Dosen't desire or expect, let alone demand or require, worship.
@wet-read no it's not that silly,I'm talking about physical feeling,even after achieving dreams,feeling pleasure and any thing in this world.There is a longing and I just can't explain that this longing that I feel is satisfied it feels way better,unexplainable,its not that I'm thinking of our Lords Greatness and all he's done but,more like a prescence it's like missing something Call me klutz but it's like I'm missing someone....I don't believe in our Lord because of evidence or because I like the concept,I believe in God because it just feels right after running from several things only to be scarred on what I think I needed...it was him who came to me when I needed him most...it felt like pins and needles in my body with peace flowing alongside my tears...Anyways I just came to share one of my wonderful experiences on my walk with Him...May God bless you
not much of a skeptic then
Christianity was absolutely essential for the (almost) complete - worldwide, mind you - eradication of slavery! How is that a "slave morality" then?
Christianity was central for both slavers and anti-slavers. Christianity was the overarching political power where slavery occurred. If Christianity was abolitionist, why did the West, who has been Christian for most of its history, even became slave-based in our contemporary age? All slavers were Christian within a Christian nation and within an overarching Christian culture.
The debate was not done between Christian aboliltionist vs non-Christian slavers. It was done amongst Christian abolitionists and Christian slavers, both using their culture, intepretation and Scripture as the basis of their movement.
But the term "slave morality" is much more subtle and complex than mere "morality to have slaves". For example, Christianity has a hierarchical structure of power that does indeed control Earthly behaviour and power by appeals to a metaphysical, otherworldly realm of consequences(both positive and negative). This is internalized as well as external. The powerful is convinced of negating its own power, self-sacrificing and serving God, the present immanent realm and power is negated for the individual in the name of a transcendental realm, and usually also by transferring the power within the immanent realm from the individual into the power structure, like the Church.
I do not understand why this is even controversial. It is quite clearly the Christian narrative, the difference being that the Christian maintains that such sacrifice is required by the ruler of the transcendental, and that there is indeed a transcendental realm of consequences, forces and meaning. This, to the Christian legitimizes such transference of power and self-denial of the flesh and of the Earthly kingdom in pursuit of the benefit of eternal soul in the Heavenly kingdom. The skeptic delegitimizes this move by either being skeptical of the Heavenly kingdom or denying it, and therefore focusing and placing all value within the evident, immanent kingdom. This is deeply profound and ought to be object of study and analysis for both the religious and the skeptical
@@natanaellizama6559 Can you summarize 'cause I ain't reading all that.
@@Reaper08 No. Reading is good and necessary. It is not hard or too long, really
@@natanaellizama6559 Slavery pre-dates Christianity by millennia. It seems to have been a fairly universal institution, and the earliest recorded statement that slavery is immoral comes from an early Christian who thought this for purely theological reasons. Christianity seems to have been a significant factor in the transition from Greco-Roman slavery to Medieval Serfdom, long before the abolitionist movemen arose.
And why are you defining "slaver" to mean "people who bought or owned slaves", but not to mean "people who forced people into slavery"? Why are the pagan and Muslim Africans who supplied the slaves used in the Americas not culpable?
And your talk about Christian morality in general requires you to ignore a large number of Bible passages which say that our relationship with God is like that of a child with their father.
@@natanaellizama6559The same thing happened to atheists who turned to far Left cults (communism) in places like the Soviet Union. They became far more brutal and evil than both the Crown and Church. Their hatred of the previous dominant culture made them do wicked things against their own people, all while proclaiming that religion was the source of oppression and evil.
Even leftists who activated and participated in the French Revolution quickly became like their enemy by murdering their way to obtain the throne. The spread atheist thought ENCOURAGED the butchery and evil, such as the theory of evolution, Supermen (Nietzsche), and Karl Marx.
I live to serve Christ. There's a difference between slave and servant. Many blessings everyone
This TikTok guy looks like the sort who would actually take Nietzsche as a serious philosopher and moral authority.
Nietzsche is a good read.
@@davidmarshall9708 A good read, sure. He’s just not a moral authority.
Exactly, Nietzsche arguably has one the worst impacts on Western culture. Religion and ethnic/regional identities are required to keep societies functioning and without both you cannot expect to have an identity. Nietzsche might consider himself "free" from the "bondage" of those things, but ultimately your ethno-religious heritage is irreplaceable and any attempt by man to seek an alternative to that heritage is necessarily going to be a slave to whatever he believes that alternative is.
You can clearly see on every picture taken of Nietzsche that he is miserable and empty while his misplaced superiority complex over others who are "slaves" to Christianity is the only thing that can give him some consolation.
I mean, he was…
Nietzsche provides one of the best defenses of Christianity ever conceived, even more so than a lot of theologians.
@@williamkennedy2474Bruh, Nietzsche wasn’t advocating for any specific moral philosophy. He wasn’t an ideologue. He was just diagnosing the problems of modernity and the consequences of the enlightenment. He wasn’t advocating for a new morality; he was offering a solution to how we could go about living in a world that has fallen into nihilism and materialism (things that he detested).
The arguments just keep coming, but we still standing. Praise God who's on most high!❤
What happens when you don't actually read the bible
According to pew research, on average Atheists rank higher than Christians on biblical knowledge.
Everyone is a slave to something, human beings are naturally obsessive. That thing can be passions and desires, fictitious worlds, power, anything. The good thing is unlike most slaves, we get to choose our master, so do you choose to dedicate yourself to something created by human beings or the Creator of human beings?
Ah yes, the religion that teaches to obey God before men and to answer to the authority of other men only if this authority doesn't conflict with Scripture is somehow a religion that teaches slave-like obedience to the wills of our fellow man.
Simple.
Please learn what slave morality means before spouting brain dead nonsense on the internet
i cant tell if this is a troll comment..
this argument wont convince nietzscheans and social darwinists
Once a student of mine (atheist) after 2 minute, when I started to explane Nietzsche, she said that is impossibile what Nietzsche said about Christian morality because she thinks that christians has a lot of power.
Jesus is worth it
I don’t know why that guy is hell bent on perpetuating ignorance. Even as an agnostic atheist I never made such stupid arguments against Christianity. I would play devils advocate against all ontological positions, but I made sure that my arguments were not fallacious, and that I understood certain metaphysical, moral/pragmatic concepts well enough to not straw-man their positions; the white haired guy doesn’t know basic history either.
Says the guy who literally looks like he's some sort of dark lord who owns slaves
From the guy that says lucifer is the same person as Jesus...
Lol exactly
Because Jesus is not satan God is not satan
only one person is satan and that is satan the devil who decieved the world
I think the point is that a non-violent attitude leads to oppression because ruthless enemies can win through violence. I think though that non-violent resistance if done by strong minds can be extremely powerful whereas violence can justify more violence from the people who want to use violence in the first place.
Didn't jesus tell the apostles to sell their shirt to buy a sword if they did not have one already? Just asking. Peaceful discourse is ideal, but you need strength to maintain peace.
@@shadynail4723 Maybe, but he didn't tell them to slay the enemies.
@@Verbalaesthet the sword is to defend, you may say to turn the other cheek. There is a time for that, but we mustn't bow to evil. If swords and guns are required so be it, but only as a last resort. In short, don't be a pacifist, be peaceful. They are not the same.
Eternal life is not reward for good behavior, but a gift from God.
Can’t agree more
Like the way you’re dealing with this with more subtleness now
William Wilberforce was from my hometown of Hull, UK and fought to abolish slavery 70+ years before Lincoln.
Why does that guy look like Vigo from Ghostbusters?
Actually, Sephiroth
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
For we have not received a spirit that makes us fearful slaves.
I keep seeing ppl say the Bible supports slavery when Christianity helped end slavery 🤦🏾♀️
1 Peter 2:18 Jesus said: "Slaves submit to your masters with all respect, not only the ones who are consistent but also to those who are cruel."
This is just a small taste of the vile things the bible promotes, I'll let you find more for yourself, assuming you even read the bible.
Other religions (specifically Islam) criticize Christianity (specifically Protestants) for being too lax. "You don't have to pray x-amount of times a day, or do such-and-such fast, ect.."
So is Christianity the most relaxed and freeing religion in the world, or a slave religion?
Gr8! Just what the sheeple needed, an unpacked synopsis on Christianity by a vampire.
Slave morality doesn’t imply slavery in the literal sense
This is a tough conversation to have, but traditionally in times of American slavery, the slave masters would use ideals found in the bible to justify their actions and control of other people. Would also indoctrinate the people they owned into this mentality, making them think they were making their lives better by controlling them. It's a far more nuanced discussion to have honestly.
You can use anything to justify your sin. But the bible was the reason ANYONE ever decided slavery was inhumane. Without Christianity slavery would still continue. No one else found an issue with it. The first to fight against slavery were Christians, precisely the Quakers.
@epic7224 I understand that, but the issue is that the Bible isn't clear that slavery is a sin. Passages like Ephesians 6:5: “Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ.” have been specifically troubling in my spiritual journey
@@redhood5264Remember to take in to account the culture and time that the Bible was written in. There was not a revolution to end slavery thousands of years ago. Slavery was still the main economy of the world at that time. Slavery was not always bad for the slave either. Those with decent masters had somewhere to sleep and to eat. The Bible may not have explicitly taught against slavery but it does explicitly teach radical love, therefore any christian master is just as commanded to love as the rest of us. If the master was not christian, any evil that he commits against his slave will be judged by God Himself.
@@Cuhpri so then it raises the question of, based on what you said, do you think that Ethical Slavery can exist, so long as both the Master and Slave are both Christian?
@@redhood5264 If it was the slave's will to become a slave then given the premise I would say yes. Not every slave is forced into bondage. Neither is all bondage evil.
For example: You are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.
That guy literally has a pentagram in the background in some of his videos .
so?
@@babotond We've gotten a fan who loves conspiracy theories and falsehood 😂
I hope you've seen how intellectually bankrupt your boss is?
@@babotondSo listening to a satanist giving his views on Christianity and why is bad is like asking an Eastern therapist why is sucking papaya mixed with Goji berry a better alternative than the reattachment of an amputated leg!
@babotond that makes this point he is trying to make super ironic lol
@@Jessc1992 can you please explain, i honestly dont see the irony.
thank you.
The concept of society itself can be considered a slave morality, binding you to its own rules and threatening you with punishment if you violate them.
that's actually what nietzsche meant by "slave morality" funny enough, he just pointed out that it was started by christian morality.
Pick a master: God or Satan.
No
Neither Exists.. durrr
not beating the allegations
This guy also agues against a wrong definition of the Christian salvation. Christians believe in salvation trough grace. That's a key difference to a lot of other religions. People aren't able to earn salvation trough good deeds. The good deeds are an organic result of receiving the divine freedom and love of God, which changes the person from inside out. This religions whole premise is being freed out of slavery of sin and death.
Christians are not doormats. we do fight back if we are denied our basic human rights and needs. do practice live and let live.
You should take on Nietzsche’s work. The “slave morality” as I understood is claiming to be “morally superior” than strong and successful because we feel weak and feel resentment towards them. I think it is a temptation that we Christians must avoid. How many have had the little thought : I don’t care if I lose against him in this life because I’ll go to heaven and he’ll go to hell.
Mankind is becoming freer. "Seek the truth and the truth shall set you free."
"Ok, who let Vigo the Destroyer out of his painting?"
Vigie, Vigie Vigie. You have been a bad monkey!
The "incoming response" banner is a nice touch. I had to fight the overwhelming urge to skip whatever that thing was at the start.
This guy: slave morality
God: *gives all humans free will*
God: *doesn’t exist*
"...reward for good behavior..."
Solid Christian teaching right here.
Hey IP Bart Erhman says the story of the woman caught in adultry was added on, can you do a video on this.
Also Christianity is not based on good works at all but rather it's all about Christ and through rebirth and salvation. Good works naturally come forth as our desires have changed
Remember when YHWH was really happy that Pharoah enslaved the Israelites because the Bible is all about slave mentality…right??
No me neither 😂😂
The slave morality thing comes from Nietzsche, though he was not as critical of Christianity as many of his fans. He taught that Christianity taught a slave morality which was in contradiction to and rightly critical of traditional pre-Christian master morality. Advocating for a synthesis of the two.
The problem with this assessment by Nietzsche is that Christianity already is the natural synthesis or more accurately correction of slave & master morality. As both of the moralities existed before Christianity. In master/slave morality, master’s rule and slaves obey.
In Christian morality the ADMINISTRATOR and the SERVENT are brothers and ultimately equals. God alone rules and among his decrease are that we rule ourselves and serve one another. Another is that those who are given the power to act as administrators over this earth must be servants to its people. In Christian morality administrator’s serve but must also rule over themselves so as not to try and usurp the role of master from the one true and only master. God, and his many names. Truth, Love, Honor, Justice, ect.
Thus did Nietzsche fundamentally misunderstand Christianity, and so to, do all of the students of his philosophy. Though many among them are even more off the mark than Nietzsche himself, as they don't really understand that him calling Christianity as "slave morality" was as much a compliment as an insult in his mind. As he saw it as the counterpoint to ancient master morality, and the next step in the development of his "Ubermench" which are not to be confused with the Nazi's idea of the Ubermench, even if they did lift the idea from him. As his vision and theres where very different.
I dont bow to slavery of ANY kind. A person of free will would NEVER bow down to the will of tyrants.
Dude is just mouthing rote Nietzsche.
Rodney Stark in his "The Triumph of Christianity" writes, "ALL CLASSICAL SOCIETIES WERE slave societies-both Plato and Aristotle were slave-owners, as were most free residents of Greek city-states. In fact, all known societies above the very primitive level have been slave societies-even many of the Northwest American Indian tribes had slaves long before Columbus’s voyage. Amid this universal slavery, only one civilization ever rejected human bondage: Christendom. And it did it twice! Elsewhere I have told the story of how slavery reappeared and then was prohibited in the Western Hemisphere.47 But the very first time slavery was eliminated anywhere in the world was not during the “Renaissance” or the “Enlightenment,” but during the “Dark Ages.”
I ancient greece, people wished to be masters. In christianity, people wish to be slaves.
Hi, IP. What would you say to someone who says that Christians are only good to avoid going to Hell? I see those who subscribe to Penal Substitution accepting Christ so as to not go to Hell. Is that for a selfish reason? Sinful selfishness.
I prefer the Christus Victor theory and that Hell isn’t a place where you want to avoid judgment but a place to avoid an identity of sin like you said. It makes more sense to me.
I know that you’re not supposed to live your life in worry of going to Hell. You know that God and His way of salvation are reliable, and you examine your character and know you are saved. I think Christians who follow Penal Substitution are still moral in their thinking. They want to follow Christ out of a moral desire. They don’t want to go to Hell because it is scary but would be willing to go because it would be just (if that was the only way, if Jesus couldn’t die for us), but they know that it is also just for Christ to voluntarily pay the fine for us, so they accept it.
As a side-note, someone who says that Hell was created to scare people is wrong in thinking that it scares people into being good, because they want to be good because of Christ, and as I demonstrated they don’t need to live their lives in worry of Hell. It should scare people because those are the consequences of sin and building an identity away from God.
No, we’re not slaves, we want to be like our father in heaven who is the most merciful. And God is definitely the most merciful, for the fact that he gave us his son while we were still sinners, and also he hasn’t judged those who dwell on the earth yet. God Is better and more patient than anyone could imagine, and we want to be like him. People who think the way that guy is thinking, they do not know God. God is salvation.
It can be both narratives. Why not? Most movements have multiple narratives and attitudes. But we also need to be careful of what we mean by "slave morality". One interpretation means that it is a morality that turns you into a slave, and the other is a morality that is focused on the slave.
For example, Nietzsche spoke of Christianity as a slave morality in the sense that it was an ethos that was focused on the weak, and so the standard of the "good" was that which aided the weak, even at the expense of the strong. Nietzsche stated that this, in turn, enslaved the powerful through a narrative of sacrifice for another life. A ruler has to sacrifice one's own power to the benefit of the masses either due to a service to a Ruler above the ruler or due to a benefit beyond this life. This seems pretty accurate.
On another note, one could interpret the slave morality as also enslaving people by the same token and not focused on the "weak" but focusing on the afterlife, negating one's own power not in benefit of the material Other, but through the of enslavement towards the narrative. An example of this would be a fear-based or rewards-based trying to be virgin until marriage, maybe failing and then feeling so much shame. Or being homosexual and constantly repressing oneself in fear of being punished.
On Korčula, an island in Croatia, slavery was made illegal as early as 1214 because of christianity
It wasn't cause of Christianity, let's not forget your bible is okay with slavery lol
Bro since when did Sephiroth become an atheist TH-camr lol
God forbid the masses be controlled.
Christianity specifically mentions that we are free to make our own choices, even to sin (which however comes with consequences). This is encapsulated in the biblical story of Adam and Eve tasting the forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden
Fantastic explanation! :)
My thoughts EXACTLY.
a man chooses a slave obeys -andrew ryan
Christianity doesn’t promote this wickedness. MAN promotes this wickedness the same way man misuses, perverts, and abuses everything.
Is the guy in the video specifically saying Christians are right wing?
Also Michael if you read this can you do a video on McLellan
You can be an obedient slave that's conquering territory for the master. In fact that's usually how it is done. Ever heard of an Army?
That’s part of Nietzsche’s philosophy lol😅
Actually the words were “slave morality”. To a degree the guy in the vid is right. I don’t know many Christians who can have a conversation about morality without “God says so” being the baseline argument.
Yes, but they can't be expected to think of themselves as slaves if they do not feel oppressed. Because all of this stuff is happening in their minds, it is abstract, and they can think and feel about it however very easily. I think that's how they can reconcile the notion of their nonbelieving friends and family winding up in a state of ECT after they die while they go somewhere better instead when *they* die. Or how the idea of all of reality being contaminated by one event long ago such that we are all equally tainted by default and in need of a savior isn't seen as ridiculously absurd, repulsive, and totally unfair.
Love this guy 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
This man's whole channel is such a gift to young developing Christians... 🙏❤
One has to choose their master. I'd rather have a master filled with mercy, beauty, and righteous judgement, with the power, intelligence, and presence to hold up that title than believe I am free by believing narcissistically that I am without flaw and needing of guidance.
This notion that it is one or the other is absurd. I don't need or desire a master, but that dosen't mean I believe I am without flaws and without need of any guidance.
@@wet-read it is a delusion to think that one can serve two masters.
@@drakeknight7646
Whatever. Look, everyone has dispositions and finds themselves in certain circumstances, which together or even on their own can either be or seem binding and limiting. I'll give you that. It's true for us all.
Even if I steelman him and assume he means that all will be under Christ as head, it uses the equivocation fallacy to equivocate servitude under Christ as the same as chattel slavery everyone abhors today. Paul’s idea of servitude is based on the Roman system, in which Christ is the supreme patron and the apostles and followers as clients.
It’s dishonest and frankly, I would assume the person would rather be destroyed and free than living eternity with Christ.
Your thinking of Peter, who was wrong and had this exact debate with Paul
Christianity didn't end slavery, but it certainly condones it - it's literally in the bible.
I'd rather be that I can't help but do the right thing
secularity ended slavery not fundamentalists.
Secularism had nothing to do with it. Historically Christianity has had one of the largest- if not the largest roles in abolitionism for centuries.
Those devoted to the entity opposed to Jesus are always telling falsehoods.!
Thank the Lord I’ve never had that mentality. I see my faith as freeing. ❤
Sorry but you don't have any idea about what the idea of "slave morality" means.
He said that they were USED for this mentality. Not that they inherently promote it. It's important to know the difference.
People making this type of argument remind me of an undergraduate who just took his first religious studies course and has projected his childhood disdain for many things onto the religion of his choosing. He probably grew up without a dad (or without a decent dad) and was probably dragged to church by his grandmother from time to time. They probably paddled him when he acted out, and now he hates Christianity and has clothed that hatred in pseudo-intellectualism. This is more common than most people realize. Which is probably why this argument (from Nietzsche, a total train wreck of a human being) has been repeated over and over. It appeals to a particular set of people.
Ephesians 6 1
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
This guys still in the teenage rebellious stage against daddy
IP is spot on. Christianity in India is a classic example of the faith improving communities inside out.
"Use the oppress the masses" yet the doctrine of heaven, good works, and surrounding yourself to Christ were the same now as its first 300 years of existence.
Consider this: heaven means eternal life. Hell means eternal death and emptiness and pain. Both are eternal
Amen
I’d like to see you talk with this guy too about what Christianity has really done for humanity, and not through TH-cam shorts
I swear atheists are more evangelical in tgeir beliefs than we are.
Peter 2:18
Leviticus 25:44-46
Colossians 3:22
Deuteronomy 20:11
Thank you IP 🙏🏾😊
Hey look, it's that guy who dresses up as The Crow again
I disagree with this one in the sense that Nietzsche is the guy who popularized “slave morality” in The Genealogy of Morals, and he makes tons of fair points. For example: Paul literally opens his letters with “My fellow slaves of Christ.”
I’ve also never found the “abolitionists were Christian” argument worth much since most people were nominally Christian during the antebellum period and inclined to recruit the Bible to support their opinions. Southern theologians clearly had more intuitive proof texts since both the Old and New Testament were slave cultures and God dictates slave prices directly to Moses.
As though I’m an atheist, I like the way you articulate your points. Keep up the good work IP 💪💪💪
Sometimes you got to just give them the word IP ❤
Romans 6:18 KJV - Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:20 KJV - For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:22 KJV - But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:23 KJV - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The Truth will set us free
John 8:36 “So if the Son sets you free you will be free indeed”
“Why did it helped slavory” we like to know how and why. It would be very helpful for us on protecting the Lords name.
We are slaves. Slaves to our sin and Jesus set us free. 🙏🏼💜💕✝️
Also, please tell me where we are promised "eternal life for good behavior." The Bible is very clear that we cannot "earn our way into heaven," it is only through faith we are saved.