Does the Bible Condone Slavery? w/ Dr. John Bergsma
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2023
- 📺 Full Episode: • YES! The Bible is Reli...
Dr. Bergsma answers the question of if Slavery is allowed in the Bible.
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Many in our culture tend to conceptualize the ancient world as full of plantation owner's that treat their slaves like dirt because of their race. Thank you for helping to illustrate the truth!
"Many in our culture tend to conceptualize the ancient world as full of plantation owner's that treat their slaves like dirt because of their race. Thank you for helping to illustrate the truth!"...I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make is. If you treat a slave great instead of like "dirt", then is slavery morally acceptable in your opinion? If slavery is based on poverty instead of race does that make slavery morally acceptable? Since you seem to be defending slavery for some reason, I guess the best question to ask is...Do you personally believe it is EVER morally acceptable to be allowed to purchase another person and consider them property that can be passed on to your children as an inheritance?
@@GuessWhoAsks Friend, you are really putting words in my mouth and assuming a lot about my statement. When did I condone slavery in what I said? I'm simply pointing out that some tend to see the ancient world through a modern lens. All people have inherent dignity and value absolutely. I hold to everything Dr. Bergsma argues in this video.
@GuessWhoAsks yes, slavery can be morally acceptable. God is certainly ok with it. However, what happened in America is absolutely no morally allowed. Exodus 21 says anyone who steals a person and anyone who buys that person should be put to death. Slavery is a much broader term than our modern western culture understands. The Bible affirms, from the very first chapter, that everyone is made in God's image. We can't treat people as mere property. God allows people to "own" each other, but with huge asterisks. They must be treated as people. There is an understanding that although you "own" them, really you are both owned by God and anything or anyone you have must be taken care of and stewarded well. This extends beyond slaves. What about your children? "You can't tell me how to raise my kids." No, but God can. And he does. Again, anything or anyone under your authority you must treat as taking care of what belongs to God rather than you.
The Bible says you can't steal people, you must treat others as made in God's image, you can't be harsh with people, when your slave goes free you must send a ton of stuff with him so he's financially set for success.
The Bible turns our world upside down and defies what our culture says. Culture used to say its all good and now says its never good, but the Bible says it's fine as long as you follow this long list of stuff that ensures you aren't taking advantage of them or treating them poorly. If American slave owners has to follow the Bible in regards to slaves they'd just throw up their hands and say "not worth it, y'all just leave."
Those who follow Jesus are called his slaves, and yet it's the best deal ever.
So, you did not comprehend anything that was said in this video?@@GuessWhoAsks
@@GuessWhoAsks No so. And that is NOT the crux of the discussion in this video. Alas....
Deuteronomy 23:15-16
If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master. Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose. Do not oppress them.
Prior to that it is discussing of warfare between Israel and its *pagan neighbors. Those escaping slavery from *idol worshippers were seen as the rationale for not handing them back across enemy lines to be exposed to the fate of breaking of the command of God. (Just saying...)
B-U-T!!!!!!!!! NUMBERS: LEVITUCUS: DEUTERONOMY: GALATION: God Rewards you if you Sloter Mothers Solders Parents and the live Children?
you can keep for reward and do with them as you choose in your own private areas. rape molestations for reward in Scriptures confused .
READ IT IN CONTEXT AND WHY SO MANY WISE SMART INTELLIGENT HARVARD STUDENTS BECOME INSTENT ATHEIST AFTER READING A COUPLE TIMES IN CONTEXT.
They pray by parents starting out with praise asking for the Guidance from thy Holy Spirit becoming instant ATHEIST AFTER READING FULL CONTEXT OF THE SCRIPTURES. ALSO ONLY PROFIT OVER RIDES THE ALGORITHMIC and not the honest Churches of God in Jesus who are indoctrinated just because they can't read or see the book in Context. have no power in many places. MONEY DOES!! AND GOD LOVES MONEY. PROVING the hundreds of thousand still today God lets them suffer dying horrible hell is all they get and reading in context you know is foolish to think itwould offer a true honest loving heaven when Jesus builds a great lake of fire AFTER he forgives you in ROMANS TO CORINTHIANS. TO NURN FOR EVER AND EVER IN ETERNITY IN HELL FIRE BECAUSE HE LOVES YOU.
FUNNY STRANGLY ? Numbers : say you can molest rape them for rewards after you killed the Solders and take their children and do as you choose with them in your own privacy because you have been rewarded. stinking ridiculous CONTRADICTIONS? Why a so many Harvard Students Reading a couple times in context seeking honestly from God Becoming instant Atheist after reading scriptures in context. Makes the gullible naive Stupid wake up a little.@@collegesuccess
please do not take the bible out of context to suit your selfish needs. that passage is referring to outsiders who were slaves from other lands. Not local slaves. please do not misrepresent the word
Leviticus 25:44
‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Philemon 1:16
no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord
Read the Scriptures in Context and see how honest you are? ITS SUPPORTS RAPE MOLESTATIONS IN 4 OTHER BOOKS AND YOUR HONESTY PREVENTS YOU FROM READING THOSE. Why you can only cherry pick a couple little verse to help your sanity
. Not wasting my time any more because of the abuse from cultish behaviors and learning why Priest perverts molesters have 2 millions Dollars saved just to Protect them from Courts Indictment's. Our Tax Money keeps them out of prisons because such a loving God Condones in Many Books then Contradicts like in others Steeling the Honesty of its Humans is very Man of Empires of Inventions to indoctrinate the Masses .
Romulus Bible before the Scriptures hidden but forced out to the public because of new laws!! Empire of Rome and their Book Bible Named Romulus !! 2 brothers floating down the river in a basket then, drinking the milk from a dirty Wolf Dog. The King James 1000 years LATER WITH, The Scriptures Mosses Floating down the river in a basket rings a Big Bell Shaking the Brain with Vibrations if Honest ? Jesus Building the Great lake of fire TO BURN YOU IN HELL FOR EVER AND EVER ETERNITY AFTER GOD FORGAVE US IS WHAT THE SCAM STARTED BEING NOTICED. from romans: to Corinthians: Contradictions Galore was just the icing on the cake.
Thank you, I’ve never heard the Bible’s slavery stance so perfectly explained before.
Not close to perfect. Avoids the issue.
Right!! Read EXODUS 21: ? YOU CAN BUY AND OWN ALL THE PEOPLE OF ALL COUNTRIES AND NATIONS OF THE EARTH? YOU CAN BEAT THEM DAILY AS LONG AS THEY DON'T DIE IN 2 DAYS? AND GETS MORE GORY READING ON ABOUT OWNING THE CHILDREN IF THEY DIE AND DOING AS YOU CHOOSE WITH THEM IN YOUR OWN CONFORT. FOR A REWARD. RAPE.@@rickdockery9620
@@rickdockery9620 These people would probably burn witches and heretics if they were told they were doing good.
@@rickdockery9620?
jubilee is invented by man? Just like the Trinity is Invented by Man .
Firstly, no such words are in the Scriptures. Including (RAPTURE) Made up tales about Jesus plucking up people is not for our times but, was for the Immediate times of Jesus and His Disciples in 70AD only and not Today or the Future...
Why all the Decades in the Past 70 years These So Called Holy 'PREDICAMENTS' ?
Raptures Embarrassingly Failed every Time and unfortunately Many Suicides who Lost Their Faith. 1975 and the California's in 1995 Many Suicides.@@velkyn1
I didn't hear him comment on these verses, wish he did:
Leviticus 25:44-46,
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly."
Sounds like life-long slavery at first glance.
He also didn't say why one would choose the surrender his freedom at the end of his temporary enslavement. If the master gave the man a wife during the enslavement and his term was done, the former slave would be forced to either abandon his wife and children or declare his lifelong enslavement to his master. This is beyond cruel.
@@Charlotte_Martel I would’ve liked a more thorough treatment of the topic, for sure.
Because they completely undermine his bullshit argument
@@Charlotte_Martel From the understanding I've sought with this verse. It seems to point to a parallel of time stamps between couples who were enslaved. Examples: If the woman had served less time then the man and the man completed his servitude, he cannot just leave with the wife but only until she has completed her time as well as long with her children due to children being with the mother. Hope this helps man
@@triatlasco959 I honestly don't know where you're getting this interpretation. Even WLC admits that the slave's wife and kids are the lifelong property of the owner if given during the slave's period of servitude. Why in the world would a newly freed man commit himself to lifelong enslavement if he knew that his wife would be freed in a short period? Your interpretation makes no sense.
He literally says about a minute in (after pretending "endentured servitude" isnt slavery) you can have foreign slaves. Thats the end of it as far as im concerned. Thats like saying your a vegetarian but its ok to eat chicken.
For a period of time, 7 years, i believe, he said, and maintaining the rights of any other human. You must have missed that part. Oops.
@@KevinSmile yes you are right. It doesn't count as slavery if it's only 7 years.
@@KevinSmile Only for Hebrew Slaves. Non-Hebrew slaves can be left for life!!!
Terminology. Servant, slave were the same thing. Servants felt safe. Think about it while doing your menial tasks at work making money for your master, boss excuse my wording. Are you a slave to corporations?
@@gregvitkow521 do you really think working at a job you can freely walk away from at any time is slavery? I suggest looking up modern slavery and then tell me it just like any other job, I guess you also say women are prostitutes if you buy them dinner so why complain about sex trafficing. No I am not a slave because I have a paid job that has been recognised in law giving me a lot of rights and protections. for instance I get a national minimum wage (not as good a s a living wage) i can quit any time, I won't be physically punished, I have legally mandated breaks...if me and my family were unable to leave for SEVEN YEARS then yes I would be a slave.
The general perception is that all slaves in the past were treated like garbage, abused, beaten, tortured, starved, and hated, but it's not true. No doubt many were, but it's unrealistic to believe they all were.
Honestly, if I was around during this time, I’d rather have been a slave to someone and gotten food/drink/shelter than died with my sick child in some dirty city corner because of starvation.
@@patrickmeyer2598 You completely, maybe intentionally miss the point. Wouldn't god know there is no 'good' version of owning another human being?
@@patrickmeyer2598 So it's intentional then. Very sad.
@@patrickmeyer2598Thank you for sharing that. I know it may have been frustrating to engage with some atheists but just know people are watching and seeing you fight the good fight. God Bless you
@@patrickmeyer2598 A simple response to this would be, it's cognitive dissonance that has people arrive at a position that is at odds with the facts they are clearly aware of.
oddly, I too go to great lengths to understand what motivates people whose position I'm at odds with.
And what I invariably find is when confronting a Theist with a reality that they have difficulty explaining is, they don't.
They lie, misrepresent and claim a higher authority that requires no proof nor reasoning.
I hear a lot of ignorance amongst a lot of new age american movements, whether the group is black, white, etc..., that The Bible condones slavery and we all know they think of the chattel slavery of the colonial and antebellum times. Thank you, Dr. Bergsma for this response and to Mr. Fradd for having him.
It does condone slavery
Leviticus 25: 44
“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Just be mindful here: there are passages that do condone slavery; however they are all limited to the Mosaic law- which is temporary and not necessarily reflecting divine, moral law. These are among the laws that Christ said were given because of hardness of heart.
Muslims will often point to these passages as well in apologetics in order to relativize and disarm Christian critics of Islamic approval of slavery. The difference is that Muhammad elevated these beliefs to the level of eternal, divine law that is still valid today in every place. The Mosaic law no longer applies in the mind of Christianity- which takes Jesus as the standard of morality
@@amyrenee1361my dude did you even watch the video
It does not matter how you try and frame it. The men who wrote the bible were fine with slavery, it was normal to them.
A god would know better.... ipso facto the bible is not from a god.
@@roscius6204 The slavery of the OT times was completely different compared to modern slavery. You’re contextualizing old times with current slavery context.
I went to Ephesus and the historian said that two thirds of the population were slaves recently taken. So how would that have worked if Paul had declared a total liberation? Absolute chaos with a million people dying of starvation.
Exactly. And there are several New Testament passages that slowly erode the structure of slavery over time:
1 Corinthians 7:21
Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you-although if you can gain your freedom, do so
Ephesians 6:9
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him
John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus
1 Timothy 1:10
for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
@@trentnelson984
None of those verse condemn slavery, or command Christians not to own slaves.
Christianity had to borrow from Humanism in order to finally rid itself of slavery, 1800 years late.
@@cygnusustus It was humanism of US which made slavery brutal.Humanism gave us communism which killed over 100 million and all the world wars of last century
@jtotheb-ip2hh
I never said anything about Roman slavery, so not sure what your point was.
Sure, Christians eventually opposed slavery. They had to borrow from Humanism to do it. It's not in their scriptures.
And of course, you left out the fact that Christians also supported slavery. They cited your Bible to do it.
So...everything I said was "exactly" correct.
@@cygnusustusit does condemn slave trade
I know we sometimes like to draw a hard distinction between slavery in ancient times and the more modern slavery that took place especially in the Americas, but there were still many similarities, and the distinction isn't nearly as clear as propagandists would have you believe. The worst abuses were when slavery overlapped with mass-scale labor (sugar plantations, for instance), but while slavery is always an affront to human dignity, it's also true that most slaveowners did not wantonly damage and destroy their own investments for sadistic fun. It's also true that older slaves were generally cared for, that relationships developed over years (many slaves and slave-owners were parts of families that had lived together in such an arrangement for literally generations). None of that makes owning human beings morally right, but it's always more complicated than most like to admit.
most slaveowners did not wantonly damage and destroy their own investments for sadistic fun......... Tell that to all the women slaves that were raped by their masters.
Slavery also arises due to economics. If a person does not have an asset to surrender, they have to put themselves on hold. There are also prisoners of war who could be made slaves until whatever is decided. This is as recent as the 20th century.
In short, yes, there are similarities and differences and I think both need to be seen in their respective context.
Lol…I like how benevolent you make American slavery sound. While I won’t argue that the issue is certainly more nuanced than how it’s been depicted, to own another human is cruel enough by itself. To know that a man (the so-called master) can sell you and your offspring, or simply have his way with your wife or daughter anytime he wants is Auschwitz level cruelty even if this master chooses not to do any of those things. The power to do so is is just as bad as doing it regardless.
@@desertdetroiter428 I have never in my life argued that human enslavement was "benevolent."
@@billbadson7598 well it’s hella annoying when people (who are almost never black) act as if the practice had a silver lining. It didn’t. I can’t think of one good thing that came out of American Antebellum slavery. And as the years go by, it looks progressively worse as technology allows us to get an even better picture of the depravity.
The idea that foreign slaves go free after 6 years doesn't match with Leviticus 25: 45-46: "You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 _*You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever*_."
In the chapter of leviticus 25, it mentions a lot to not rule over them ruthlessly and something about years working and year of jubilee not sure if that counts for something. Exodus 21:2 says about releasing a slave after 6 years. I am not sure how this works out, I am no expert in the OT or in the ancient world.
I agree, as he keeps conflating the treatment for Hebrew servants (indentured servitude) to that of the non-Hebrew. It is this difference between the two groups that seem to be immoral for the non-Hebrew. IF one were able to tell the difference between the treatment proscribed for Hebrews in Leviticus 26:39-45 before reading the passage you provide(leviticus 25:44-46), then do you think they could more easily see the difference in treatment allowed by the Bible for themselves, or do you disagree?
Male Hebrew servants debts were to be "forgiven" rather they were paid in full or not at year of Jubilee. (Female servants had a different set of rules as well as foreign servants).
I think the key word is sojourn which means temporary stay. Just a hebrews could sell themselves into indentured servitude, so could foreigners. The scripture mean that if the year of jubilee had not yet passed, and the master died while still having servants, their death doesn't result in servants gaining their "freedom" and they are to continue to work for the sons as an inheritance until that time Jubilee or they have paid off their debts. The regarding the foreign slaves be in response to foreigners not having any rights to the land, thus, a continuation of servitude may be imminent to obtain food, housing, security, etc. that hebrews were inherited as the chosen people but, the law required the Hebrews treat them as natives.
If you read the story of Ruth, she was actually a foreigner. She was a Moabite refugee in the promise land. She was the great-grandmother of King David.
I welcome other interpretations. I have no theology training but this has been my understanding of OT servitude.
"You must not oppress foreigners. You know what it's like to be a foreigner, for you yourselves were once foreigners in the land of Egypt. 9 "Don't take advantage of a stranger. You know what it's like to be a stranger; you were strangers in Egypt - Exodus 23:9
"When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." -Leviticus 19:33-34
@@GuessWhoAsks Non-hebrews were not treated immorally. (well, I am sure some were but it was not because scripture condoned it. Everything points to the exact opposite)
@@metorphoric Given what we now know of human nature, the power imbalance inherent in slavery would mean a large proportion of the slaves would be physically and sexually abused regardless of the _limited_ protection given by scripture. This is an abuser's charter. Strangely, this is important to make clear because of the way the economy is heading with permanent mass unemployment and low wages with the rise of AI, robotics and quantum computing.
Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished,
21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
It's about corporal punishment read the whole chapter.
Corporal punishment
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by accepting trinity christianity you are lost in this world and the hereafter. jesus like all prophets taught monotheism
God bless you, Tiff. You're doing great.
Busy = you are in great shape! Trust me, better yet trust God. The people that have time on their hands are the ones that are scheming. It may be difficult, but with each passing moment, know that every step you take is a righteous step and God smiles upon you. Nothing you have done, or will do is overlooked by God, but he is tallying each and every good deed you do to one day read them back to you.
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1. Hear the Gospel. (Romans 10:17, John 8:32)
2. Believe the Gospel (Hebrews 11:6, John 20:31)
3. Repent of past sins (Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30)
4. Confess faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 10:10, Matthew 10:32)
5. Be Baptized (Galatians 3:27, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38)
6. Be faithful unto death (Revelation 2:10)
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
Romans 16:16 KJV
@@MastaE2288 too easy folks. jesus said beware of a sheep in wolf clothing coming after me teaching the opposite of my message ' greatest command is to worship our lord the one god only ' Paul ' god is 3 coequal godheads ' Muhammad ' god is one worship the creator only not the created '
@@etzelkaplan9677 I'll be honest. I am really not sure what you are trying to say.
I believe the Jubilee laws only applied to indentured Israelites. Even some of the apostles had slaves. For example, Peter’s household.
Do the Jubilee laws pertain to foreign slaves as well re: Lev 25 : 44?
Well if you read entire old testament than yes it it hinted that foreign Slaves could also free themselves.
@@Doctor_Fate5 I don’t think what you’re saying tracks or can be reconciled with Leviticus 25 : 44
@@WePlugGOODMusic it can be reconciled
@@Doctor_Fate5 What Passages? Chapters? Verses? Or just take your word for it?
@@Doctor_Fate5typical lying slavery apologist
It's crazy the intellectual dishonesty which has to occur for someone to pretend the Bible doesn't condone slavery. Interesting absence of Lev 25:44-46 here. Also, saying you can't have a permanent Israelites slave is definitely not the same thing as saying you can't have any slaves.
Furthermore, does a year of Jubilee erase the prior 6 years of slavery which just occurred for someone? Just admit God does not see slavery as immoral in all circumstances.
Bunch of liars.
I thought like most everyone when I heard the “Bible allows slaves” thing.
But when I actually read the Bible and got context for those statements I was like- that’s… not a slave tho?? That’s kinda like community service or a butler.
I’ve really gotten a lot of answers to my own dumb statements recently that, with context, reaaaaally make me cringe at how easily people (like me) jump the gun when they hear one trigger word so that immediately=bad/evil and worse, use that in order to put down those that actually know the context and say they love oppression or otherwise.
"... I was like- that’s… not a slave tho?? That’s kinda like community service or a butler."
No.
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."
Would you beat your slaves with a rod?
Would you beat them so badly it takes them atwo days to recover?
There are more rules that allow people to be passed on to their children as inheritance.
In what universe do we get to keep community workers and butlers as property if they are from another country or tribe along with their childeen and pass them to the owners children as an inheritance as legislated in Leviticus 25:44-46?
Or if the community worker or butler is a local male, we can give them a wife from the women sold to you by their fathers. And if the butler leaves your service, you get to keep his wife and kids forever as per Exodus 21:4?
Slavery in the bible was nothing like community workers or butlers. Especially if the slave was a foreigner or woman. Biblical slavery was every bit as much as transatlantic slaver because the transatlantic slavers got their laws and morals on slavery directly from the bible. Pure filth and moral depravity.
the bible is the origin of the abolition movement, it is not a perfect moral state in comparison to today (unless you consider minimum wage a form of indentured servitude), but it is a clear advancement to our present day in comparison with the rest of the world at the time it was written
@@jaclo3112 But the First Epistle to Timothy -reveals a disdain/condemnation for the slave trade, proclaiming it to be contrary to sound doctrine. He explains to Timothy that those who live a life based on love do not have to fear the law of God; that “the law is laid down not for the innocent but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.”
it mentions "slave traders" as one of the groups for whom the law is intended. The passage includes them in a list of behaviors that are considered contrary to sound doctrine, suggesting that engaging in the practice of slave trading is viewed as sinful.
@Supreme_Giga_Chad one doesn't have to be a slave trader to buy a slave. You are simply a customer. Or you get your slave from the prisoners of war that your tribe/religion/country defeated as per the bible.
Timothy epistle NEVER outlaws slavery. It simply condemns slave traders. This also explains why 1 Peter 2:18 disgustingly commands slaves obey slave masters, even the cruel ones. Pure filth.
This guy is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Moreover, there are three types of slavery referenced in the Bible. He's conflating all three and picking and choosing the parts he wants to make it more palatable. One of the types absolutely was chattel slavery and those slaves were inheritable property not subject to the year of jubilee practices.
Exodus 21:16
Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession
Exodus 21:26
An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye
Exodus 21:20
Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result
1 Corinthians 7:21
Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you-although if you can gain your freedom, do so
1 Timothy 1:10
for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
Ephesians 6:9
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him
When you have a educated person who understands the oldest common chain in modern human history i.e. religions, but also have a keen understanding of perceptions related to time periods as well as just a good perception on on modern world yeilds some of the highest level conversation possible.
We are literally perceptual time traveling with conversation like these where old texts are viewed theu their perception of reality of the time and not apply modern perceptions to past perceptions
He lied about foreign slaves, them and their children could be inherited to the next master descendant. He switched Israel with foreigners in his example.
The ancient time and culture defense is moot when it comes to any religion claiming morality is a constant and not relative. Bye bye
Oh wow, TH-cam put this on Autoplay after watching a Dan McClellan video on a similar subject and I didn't notice that the video changed... I was wondering why it was taking so long for Mr. McClellan to chime in.
I'm not sure selling the biblical exegesis here of "job security" or downplaying how awful even indentured slavery was is working for modern audiences. It was something more than slavery to set Israel apart but it was still slavery. You want to waste away seven years of your life for debt?
There is no justification of slavery. Slavery should not exist in the modern world.
There is plenty of justification - just not moral justification.
@@MyContext 💀 you got me
The "slavery" of the ancient Mediterranean world and the "slavery" as practiced in the 1600s-1800s in New World colonies are so different that we should probably have different words for them. The chattel slaves in the Caribbean and Antebellum South had no legal rights, and an owner could do whatever he wanted to do to one. The slaves in the ancient Mediterranean were really more like what we would call servants - paid, able to own some property, having legal rights. They were just stuck with the same job unless they were freed, as they could be in Israel. As Dr. Bergsma said, they were members of the household. They were not reduced to livestock, as was legally the case in the Caribbean and Antebellum South.
like how we have murder and manslaughter.... though one is unintentional...
@@Giantcrabz it was a way to get rid of debt. Can you really say the homeless situation in these American and Canadian cities is a better system?
Nope. Foreign slaves under Mosaic law had no protections. They could be bought, sold, separated from their families, beaten, raped, killed, kept for life, and passed down as inheritance. Their treatment was every bit as bad, if not worse, than slave treatment in Caribbean and Antebellum South.
Bergsma lied when he said "True slavery is outlawed for Israelites.' and "The other people around Israel could be enslaved, but only temporarily."
Leviticus 25 says different:
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 AND YOU SHALL TAKE THEM AS INHERITANCE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, to inherit them for a possession; THEY SHALL BE YOUR BONDMEN FOREVER: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
If you have to lie to protect your beliefs, it is time to get new beliefs. Your religion condones slavery.
@@Jeff55369
"it was a way to get rid of debt"
It was not. Chattel slaves were obtained by conquest or birth, and they were kept for life.
Stop lying.
"Can you really say the homeless situation in these American and Canadian cities is a better system?"
Than chattel slavery? Absolutely.
@@cygnusustus I was speaking of slaves under mosaic law, not chattel slavery.
As for your other comments, you can't take one verse and separate it from the context of the rest. All of them together form the guidelines of the societal rules listed in the text. You're also reading a translated work, and not everything has been translated properly.
Furthermore, there are special instances, like the earing the speaker in the video mentioned, that prolonged the slave's "employment" from 7 years to a lifetime indenture. However, that was a voluntary position, not something to place someone into against their will.
Yes he did.
Peter 2:18
Levictus 25:44-46
Colossians 3:22
Deuteronomy 20:11
Ephesians 6:5
Exodus 21: 20-21
Exodus 21: 7-11
American slaveowners used the bible as a tool to justify slavery and there are many books written by slaveowners why slavery is right because of the bible
Some good these passages actually reinforced slavery
best explanation I've come across. thank you and God bless!
Best explanation? Bergsma is a blatant liar.
Bergsma lied when he said "True slavery is outlawed for Israelites.' and "The other people around Israel could be enslaved, but only temporarily."
Leviticus 25 says different:
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 AND YOU SHALL TAKE THEM AS INHERITANCE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, to inherit them for a possession; THEY SHALL BE YOUR BONDMEN FOREVER: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
That is chattel slavery.
If you have to lie to protect your beliefs, it is time to get new beliefs. Your religion condones slavery.
Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
Exodus 21:8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.
The Bible allows fathers to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.
too bad he is lying
Exodus 21:7
7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go free as male slaves do.
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 [a]The male and female slaves that you possess-these you shall acquire from the nations round about you. 45 You may also acquire them from among the resident aliens who reside with you, and from their families who are with you, those whom they bore in your land. These you may possess, 46 and bequeath to your children as their hereditary possession forever. You may treat them as slaves. But none of you shall lord it harshly over any of your fellow Israelites.
Exodus 21:4
If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall leave alone.
@@Dave_Langer try to read the entire old testament LoL
Voluntary servitude is a completely different situation. Voluntary servitude arises when a person becomes so poor that they cannot make a living, cannot provide for themselves, and sell themselves into a relationship with a person who has money and can provide for the poor person. The Hebrew word for this is “ebed.” meaning servant, or bondman. The Bible describes Israel as the Lord’s bondservant, or slave, the same word ebed.
You quote the following:
“However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” (Leviticus 25:44-46)
You have plucked this verse out of context and we must look at the whole context.
“If any Israelites living near you become so poor that they sell themselves to you as a slave, you shall not make them do the work of a slave. They shall stay with you as hired workers and serve you until the next Year of Restoration.” (Lev. 25:39-40)
The issue of poverty was one of the reasons that people sold themselves as servants. There were also provisions for freedom. They could be bought back by a relative, or by their own money. Working for someone else did not mean that they received nothing. “By their own money” (v. 49) meant a certain freedom to gain money and buy their own freedom.
We have no reason to believe that the same was not true for the foreigners in the land. The verse says, “purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land,” and these were probably people like the Hebrews who fell on hard times and were poor. Being a servant in another household was better than starving. The rights are spelled out for the Hebrews but they would also apply to the foreigners who were welcomed into the land. The people were taught: “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner; remember that you were foreigners in Egypt. Do not mistreat any widow or orphan.” (Exodus 22:21-22)
“Suppose a foreigner living with you becomes rich, while some Israelites become poor and sell themselves as slaves to that foreigner or to a member of that foreigner's family. After they are sold, they still have the right to be bought back. A brother or an uncle or a cousin or another close relative may buy them back; or if they themselves earn enough, they may buy their own freedom. They must consult the one who bought them, and they must count the years from the time they sold themselves until the next Year of Restoration and must set the price for their release on the basis of the wages paid hired workers. They must refund a part of the purchase price according to the number of years left, as if they had been hired on an annual basis. Their master must not treat them harshly. If they are not set free in any of these ways, they and their children must be set free in the next Year of Restoration. Israelites cannot be permanent slaves, because the people of Israel are the LORD's slaves. He brought them out of Egypt; he is the LORD their God. (Lev. 25:47-55)
It may be that the foreigners living in the land who became poor would not have relatives around to buy them back. The issue of voluntary selling oneself in servant hood is important. The year of Restoration and the Sabbatical years were important to the Hebrews since it restored people to their original property allotted to them when they entered the land. It offered a fresh start again. However, the foreigners who lived in the land did not have land allotted to them. The only option would have been to expel them from the land which could have had dire results for them.
In the case of the foreigner who became poor the economic advantage of living with a wealthy person brought security. This arrangement entered into voluntarily was better than poor employment, low grade and bad pay when one did have a job. Remember that in 1200 BC one was limited in terms of work for pay.
The central issue here is that slavery was initiated BY the slave, NOT by the owners. What was involved was the economic relief of poverty of the poor person who sought to be taken in by some person of wealth.
The passage about inheritance needs some caveats. First, the verses says “you may” pass them on to your children, not that it was automatic, necessary, expected, or standard practice. It may be that the prosperity changes could have reduced the owner’s ability to support the slave. Second, this may well refer to servants who did not want to go free as expressed in Exodus 21.5, “But if the slave declares that he loves his master, his wife, and his children and does not want to be set free,” there was a ceremony at the place of worship for declaring him to be a slave for life. There is a similar procedure described in Deuteronomy 15:16 in which a person could become a slave for life because “he may love you and your family and be content to stay.” Third, given the fact that slaves could earn money, they could buy their own freedom.-- “if they themselves earn enough, they may buy their own freedom.” (Lev. 25:49)
Ezekiel 47:22 (ESV) states:
"You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you, they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel."
This verse is part of a larger passage in the book of Ezekiel describing the division of the land among the twelve tribes of Israel. It emphasizes the inclusive nature of the inheritance, extending it to both the native-born children of Israel and the sojourners residing among them. The idea is to treat those living among the Israelites as equal participants in the distribution of land.
"Sojourners" in biblical terms typically refer to foreigners or strangers residing in a land temporarily. These individuals are not native to the place where they are living but are there for various reasons such as travel, work, servant/slave or seeking refuge. The concept of treating sojourners justly and integrating them into the community is often emphasized in biblical teachings, promoting hospitality and fairness in their treatment. The verse from Ezekiel 47:22 underscores the idea that sojourners, along with native-born individuals, should share in the inheritance and be considered as part of the community.
Selling Children into slavery:
When a man sells his daughter as a maidservant, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the menservant are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11)
First, we need to ask why a man sells his daughter? Was it because he did not love her? Was it because he was hard-hearted? Or, was it because he could not support her? Selling daughters was for the daughter’s own good since it meant a life related to someone who could afford her while the father, being poor, could not. Moreover, he could not afford a dowry to give to a perspective husband.
The passage above involves the secondary position of a concubine for the owner or a wife for his son. “When a daughter was sold into slavery by her father, this was intended both as a payment of debt and as a way of obtaining a husband for her without a dowry. She has more rights than a male in the sense that she can be freed from slavery if her master does not provide her with food, clothing and marital rights.”
@@tomasrocha6139 Bible forbids sexual slavery 👇
Leviticus 19:29 states :
“ 'Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness.
Okay, but why didn’t these guys talk about the church endorsing certain acts of slavery? Popes in the 1400s declared that heathens on the Canary Islands could be enslaved by the Spanish. Was the pope theologically mistaken? Or is slavery only forbidden for fellow Christians?
Sicut Dudum
Cite your source. Don't just make unsupported statements. Popes prohibited enslavement in the New World. See Pope Paul III "Sublimis Deus".
@@nicolamcostello Dum Diversas
@@nobey1kanobey don't forget about Sublimis Deus.
Its extremely disturbing how many people are trying to justify the sick practices of the old testament. You cant look at passages like Numbers 31 and tell me any of that was justified.
Check Jewish commentary on Numbers 31.
In war people die.
Excellent explanation.
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."
Would you beat your slaves with a rod?
Would you beat them so badly it takes them atwo days to recover?
@AallthewaytoZ2 it's about corporal punishment.
@@Doctor_Fate5you're psychotic
How does one respond to chattel slavery within the Roman Empire? For example Onesimus was a runaway chattel slave sent back to the master by Paul.
Philemon 1:16 : "no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord."
@@Doctor_Fate5that's only one specific pers
It's always sickening when people try to justify biblical slavery.
"Employment security and benefits!"
"No more than seven years!"
"Bonds of affection between servant and master!"
"Slaves were members of the household!"
...Jesus Christ.
What's the "Jesus Christ" about?? Apart from employment security, all the other words you mentioned are literally in the Bible.
@@timothytakang5407 "...all the other words you mentioned are literally in the Bible."
Why does that make it any better? In any other context, people would rail against such immorality. However, if it's in "muh Bible" it gets a free pass?
@@zacharyeicher390 What makes, "bonds of affection between slave and master", "slaves being members of the household" evil?? Can you explain??
@@timothytakang5407 Why are they even slaves in the first place? Can your God not create a world without slavery? Why even worship him if he can't?
@@zacharyeicher390 Why do you want an answer from me when you haven't answered my questions??
Stephen Fry needs to see this lol
Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
Exodus 21:8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.
The Bible allows fathers to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.
@@tomasrocha6139stop lying there is no mention of any sex Slavery in the entire passage.
@@tomasrocha6139 Bible forbids sexual slavery 👇
Leviticus 19:29 states :
“ 'Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness.
@@Doctor_Fate5you're desperately lying
Leviticus 25:44-46. it is right there.
Why did Paul not tell Philemon to free Onesimus? Why didnt he say slavery was wrong?
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.
Whoever kidnaps someone, either to sell him or to keep him as a slave is to be put to death.” - Exodus 21:16... The passage you're refrencing, I'm confident relates to Volentary Indentureship, which is far from how we imagine modern slavery. If you learn anything more I'd love to hear your take.
Leviticus 19:34
The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God
Glad you reminded me of that one too.
Exodus 23:9
Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt
@@Liam_WhitemoonDeut 24:7 makes it clear this is specifically for Israelites kidnapped. Even if we agree that kidnapping is against the law even if they are foreign then it only prohibits this one particular method. Deut 20:10-14 makes it clear they can be taken as plunder from war. Leviticus 25 clearly shows they are allowed in general. If you feel exodus 21 conflicts with the passages in Leviticus and Deut then you have a different problem.
This is where apologetics gets particularly disgusting and i start to entertain the idea that religion is poison if it can get people to compromise their morals like this. Slavery is ok if you let the slave go after 7 years, slavery is ok is you provide health care for sick slaves, slavery is ok if you build a relationship with your slaves, slavery is ok if the person volunteers to be your slave. Wtf are we talking about here? You don't think there were 1800 slave owners who fulfilled all of these criteria? It's still wrong ffs!
It's voluntary servitude.
Being a slave in a decent family back then wouldn’t be bad, you’re literally part of their household and they should have your best interest in mind. Tell me, who would in their right mind oppress and treat bad their worker? A cruel person. God doesn’t like cruel people.
If you have a particularly cruel master and decide to run away, the master cannot kill you according to these laws, and you are supposed to be taken care of and basically freed if you run away.
Keep in mind this is Old Testament law for Jewish civil matters, not for the world…. And the callback to the horrible slave trade in the Americas might show how disillusioned you are, because everything with servitude must follow with cruel masters that hate people based on race. News flash, this didn’t work that way.
Please define when the jubilee years were. Both in the essene calendar method or the Hebrew calendar method
I have a question. You briefly brush on the differences on the Slavery of the Americas and the slavery of the ancient Mediterranean. What then is the difference between the successors of Judea, Palestine, in the institution set by the Moslems' Arabo-Semitic Sharia Law and the Old Levantine Semitic Law of Moses?
That well-rounded recap at the end is perfect, I can't explain it better myself. That's what people from a modern worldview cannot fathom. You can't grab someone who for their whole lives, sometimes being an inheritance like our founding fathers in the US had at times, have known only how to be told how to do things, have no education, can't write, can't read, don't know how to formulate their own lives, aren't aware of the stark contrast free life is to complete servitude, and just throw them into the world to go figure everything out on their own. Again, often times we apply this horrendous lens to slavery when people don't understand that ownership of slaves is not a casual simple thing any man goes and does. You want your slaves to live and continue being healthy for as long as possible because these are literally financial assets that you need to stay afloat. Throwing them into the free world is like throwing them to the wolves, they will get chewed up quick and could even end up dead, maybe even get YOU in trouble. The process of emancipation is a very very slow and deliberate process that should be considered prudently, because the last thing you would ever want is a bunch of ex-slaves running around stealing, and hurting others just to simply get by. Our founding fathers had this same understanding. I've always read these sections about respecting one's master in this light as a result, it's basically saying- "Because these systems have to exist for now, this is the way that you must behave towards one another."
Are you freaking joking? The Founders didn't ban slavery because they cared about the slaves and didn't want them to hurt each other? 🤣🤣🤣 So selfless. It clearly had nothing to do with the fact that many of them owned slaves and would lose their fortunes if these people were freed, right?
Can't wait for your defence of Nazism.
You are basically arguing for the pernicious effects of slavery on the human person. It renders them incapable of freedom and the responsibilities that come with it. Through progressive revelation in the best sense, the Church has come to understand slavery is intrinsically evil.
Man-Stealing is Condemned.
You can also implicitly prove it doesn't condone it and was meant to fade away, using Jesus argument against divorce appealing to the pre-fall state of humanity, and when he says a slave doesn't abide forever but the Son does.
That Hebrew part was a great point
Excellent job glossing over Leviticus 25: 45-46. It’s clear as day, and no amount of tying yourself into knots gets the Christian out of this one. “You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life”. Game over.
He missed Lev 25.44-46. I think that has to be addressed in this topic. Otherwise, great answer!
The fact that he missed Lev 25.44-46 shows just how weak his lies are. Horrible answer.
Exodus 21:7
7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go free as male slaves do.
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 [a]The male and female slaves that you possess-these you shall acquire from the nations round about you. 45 You may also acquire them from among the resident aliens who reside with you, and from their families who are with you, those whom they bore in your land. These you may possess, 46 and bequeath to your children as their hereditary possession forever. You may treat them as slaves. But none of you shall lord it harshly over any of your fellow Israelites.
Exodus 21:4
If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall leave alone.
@@Dave_Langer try to read the entire old testament LoL
Voluntary servitude is a completely different situation. Voluntary servitude arises when a person becomes so poor that they cannot make a living, cannot provide for themselves, and sell themselves into a relationship with a person who has money and can provide for the poor person. The Hebrew word for this is “ebed.” meaning servant, or bondman. The Bible describes Israel as the Lord’s bondservant, or slave, the same word ebed.
You quote the following:
“However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” (Leviticus 25:44-46)
You have plucked this verse out of context and we must look at the whole context.
“If any Israelites living near you become so poor that they sell themselves to you as a slave, you shall not make them do the work of a slave. They shall stay with you as hired workers and serve you until the next Year of Restoration.” (Lev. 25:39-40)
The issue of poverty was one of the reasons that people sold themselves as servants. There were also provisions for freedom. They could be bought back by a relative, or by their own money. Working for someone else did not mean that they received nothing. “By their own money” (v. 49) meant a certain freedom to gain money and buy their own freedom.
We have no reason to believe that the same was not true for the foreigners in the land. The verse says, “purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land,” and these were probably people like the Hebrews who fell on hard times and were poor. Being a servant in another household was better than starving. The rights are spelled out for the Hebrews but they would also apply to the foreigners who were welcomed into the land. The people were taught: “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner; remember that you were foreigners in Egypt. Do not mistreat any widow or orphan.” (Exodus 22:21-22)
“Suppose a foreigner living with you becomes rich, while some Israelites become poor and sell themselves as slaves to that foreigner or to a member of that foreigner's family. After they are sold, they still have the right to be bought back. A brother or an uncle or a cousin or another close relative may buy them back; or if they themselves earn enough, they may buy their own freedom. They must consult the one who bought them, and they must count the years from the time they sold themselves until the next Year of Restoration and must set the price for their release on the basis of the wages paid hired workers. They must refund a part of the purchase price according to the number of years left, as if they had been hired on an annual basis. Their master must not treat them harshly. If they are not set free in any of these ways, they and their children must be set free in the next Year of Restoration. Israelites cannot be permanent slaves, because the people of Israel are the LORD's slaves. He brought them out of Egypt; he is the LORD their God. (Lev. 25:47-55)
It may be that the foreigners living in the land who became poor would not have relatives around to buy them back. The issue of voluntary selling oneself in servant hood is important. The year of Restoration and the Sabbatical years were important to the Hebrews since it restored people to their original property allotted to them when they entered the land. It offered a fresh start again. However, the foreigners who lived in the land did not have land allotted to them. The only option would have been to expel them from the land which could have had dire results for them.
In the case of the foreigner who became poor the economic advantage of living with a wealthy person brought security. This arrangement entered into voluntarily was better than poor employment, low grade and bad pay when one did have a job. Remember that in 1200 BC one was limited in terms of work for pay.
The central issue here is that slavery was initiated BY the slave, NOT by the owners. What was involved was the economic relief of poverty of the poor person who sought to be taken in by some person of wealth.
The passage about inheritance needs some caveats. First, the verses says “you may” pass them on to your children, not that it was automatic, necessary, expected, or standard practice. It may be that the prosperity changes could have reduced the owner’s ability to support the slave. Second, this may well refer to servants who did not want to go free as expressed in Exodus 21.5, “But if the slave declares that he loves his master, his wife, and his children and does not want to be set free,” there was a ceremony at the place of worship for declaring him to be a slave for life. There is a similar procedure described in Deuteronomy 15:16 in which a person could become a slave for life because “he may love you and your family and be content to stay.” Third, given the fact that slaves could earn money, they could buy their own freedom.-- “if they themselves earn enough, they may buy their own freedom.” (Lev. 25:49)
Ezekiel 47:22 (ESV) states:
"You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you, they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel."
This verse is part of a larger passage in the book of Ezekiel describing the division of the land among the twelve tribes of Israel. It emphasizes the inclusive nature of the inheritance, extending it to both the native-born children of Israel and the sojourners residing among them. The idea is to treat those living among the Israelites as equal participants in the distribution of land.
"Sojourners" in biblical terms typically refer to foreigners or strangers residing in a land temporarily. These individuals are not native to the place where they are living but are there for various reasons such as travel, work, servant/slave or seeking refuge. The concept of treating sojourners justly and integrating them into the community is often emphasized in biblical teachings, promoting hospitality and fairness in their treatment. The verse from Ezekiel 47:22 underscores the idea that sojourners, along with native-born individuals, should share in the inheritance and be considered as part of the community.
Selling Children into slavery:
When a man sells his daughter as a maidservant, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the menservant are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11)
First, we need to ask why a man sells his daughter? Was it because he did not love her? Was it because he was hard-hearted? Or, was it because he could not support her? Selling daughters was for the daughter’s own good since it meant a life related to someone who could afford her while the father, being poor, could not. Moreover, he could not afford a dowry to give to a perspective husband.
The passage above involves the secondary position of a concubine for the owner or a wife for his son. “When a daughter was sold into slavery by her father, this was intended both as a payment of debt and as a way of obtaining a husband for her without a dowry. She has more rights than a male in the sense that she can be freed from slavery if her master does not provide her with food, clothing and marital rights.”
He didn't miss it, he purposely avoided it to keep his narrative to deceive his audience
Thanks
So you're not saying the Bible condemns slavery outright but just a harsh form of it? Also, the trans-atlantic slavers justified their form of slavery using the Bible. They cited Noah's curse of his son Ham and grandson Canaan after Ham exposed Noah's nakedness. See Gen 9:13. I would say slavery is condemned in the new Testament when Paul says there is no slave or free in Christ. See Gal 3:28.
This last part is a good point. Although I'm not necessarily agreeing with you (Paul also tells slaves to obey their masters, but I'm not saying that's an affirmation of slavery necessarily.), I do think it's always critical to recognize the differences between the Old Law and the New Law of Christ. This video pretty much just focuses on the Old Law, which has been fulfilled.
someone, please send this clip to Bill Maher
Yes, please. Maher would LOVE to use this to show how religion forces one to defend absolute evil.
This video resonates as a lying for Jesus moment - Leviticus 25:44-46
Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
Exodus 21:8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.
The Bible allows fathers to sell their daughters into conjugal slavery.
@@tomasrocha6139 I would LOVE to hear how Matt's guest would spin these verses. I'm sure that he would say that the father is selling the daughter to be a wife, not a prostitute. But it's horrific.
Leviticus 25:44-46a KJV - Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; *of them shall ye buy* bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and *they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children* after you, to inherit them for a possession; *they shall be your bondmen for ever*
You say temporary, and the Bible says forever. I'll stick with Scripture.
Yes, if you would search a little further, you would understand that "for ever" does not mean what you think it does in our conception. Often the translation "for ever" from Hebrew simply means something like "for this age." As in, not literally an eternity, but while the current age exists in the structure it does. Look it up.
@TheBanjoShowOfficial Verse 40 says that fellow Israelites are to be kept as bondmen only until the year of the jubilee, whereas Verse 46 (above) states that strangers may be kept as slaves forever. These ideas are clearly contrasted, and foreign slaves are not let go at the jubilee as claimed in the video.
Regarding the Hebrew word rendered "for ever" in Verse 46, it is "olam" (Strong's h5769), and I am very familiar with it. In this context, it actually does mean forever, or for life. If you check various English translations of the verse, you will see that they consistently translate "olam" here to mean forever.
@Pedant_Patrol
Plus on top of that, the phrase
"for your children after you"
implies generational/perpetual ownership. It amazes me how many Christians try and skirt away from the text plain reading. The accusation..."fundamentalist" is boring....presuppositionally, everyone is a "fundamentalist"
@christianparks3370 Funny your name is Christian. In my experience, most Christians don't actually care about the Bible or the God of the Bible. They only care about their eago and their vanity.
Voluntary servitude is a completely different situation. Voluntary servitude arises when a person becomes so poor that they cannot make a living, cannot provide for themselves, and sell themselves into a relationship with a person who has money and can provide for the poor person. The Hebrew word for this is “ebed.” meaning servant, or bondman. The Bible describes Israel as the Lord’s bondservant, or slave, the same word ebed.
You quote the following:
“However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” (Leviticus 25:44-46)
You have plucked this verse out of context and we must look at the whole context.
“If any Israelites living near you become so poor that they sell themselves to you as a slave, you shall not make them do the work of a slave. They shall stay with you as hired workers and serve you until the next Year of Restoration.” (Lev. 25:39-40)
The issue of poverty was one of the reasons that people sold themselves as servants. There were also provisions for freedom. They could be bought back by a relative, or by their own money. Working for someone else did not mean that they received nothing. “By their own money” (v. 49) meant a certain freedom to gain money and buy their own freedom.
We have no reason to believe that the same was not true for the foreigners in the land. The verse says, “purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land,” and these were probably people like the Hebrews who fell on hard times and were poor. Being a servant in another household was better than starving. The rights are spelled out for the Hebrews but they would also apply to the foreigners who were welcomed into the land. The people were taught: “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner; remember that you were foreigners in Egypt. Do not mistreat any widow or orphan.” (Exodus 22:21-22)
“Suppose a foreigner living with you becomes rich, while some Israelites become poor and sell themselves as slaves to that foreigner or to a member of that foreigner's family. After they are sold, they still have the right to be bought back. A brother or an uncle or a cousin or another close relative may buy them back; or if they themselves earn enough, they may buy their own freedom. They must consult the one who bought them, and they must count the years from the time they sold themselves until the next Year of Restoration and must set the price for their release on the basis of the wages paid hired workers. They must refund a part of the purchase price according to the number of years left, as if they had been hired on an annual basis. Their master must not treat them harshly. If they are not set free in any of these ways, they and their children must be set free in the next Year of Restoration. Israelites cannot be permanent slaves, because the people of Israel are the LORD's slaves. He brought them out of Egypt; he is the LORD their God. (Lev. 25:47-55)
It may be that the foreigners living in the land who became poor would not have relatives around to buy them back. The issue of voluntary selling oneself in servant hood is important. The year of Restoration and the Sabbatical years were important to the Hebrews since it restored people to their original property allotted to them when they entered the land. It offered a fresh start again. However, the foreigners who lived in the land did not have land allotted to them. The only option would have been to expel them from the land which could have had dire results for them.
In the case of the foreigner who became poor the economic advantage of living with a wealthy person brought security. This arrangement entered into voluntarily was better than poor employment, low grade and bad pay when one did have a job. Remember that in 1200 BC one was limited in terms of work for pay.
The central issue here is that slavery was initiated BY the slave, NOT by the owners. What was involved was the economic relief of poverty of the poor person who sought to be taken in by some person of wealth.
The passage about inheritance needs some caveats. First, the verses says “you may” pass them on to your children, not that it was automatic, necessary, expected, or standard practice. It may be that the prosperity changes could have reduced the owner’s ability to support the slave. Second, this may well refer to servants who did not want to go free as expressed in Exodus 21.5, “But if the slave declares that he loves his master, his wife, and his children and does not want to be set free,” there was a ceremony at the place of worship for declaring him to be a slave for life. There is a similar procedure described in Deuteronomy 15:16 in which a person could become a slave for life because “he may love you and your family and be content to stay.” Third, given the fact that slaves could earn money, they could buy their own freedom.-- “if they themselves earn enough, they may buy their own freedom.” (Lev. 25:49)
Ezekiel 47:22 (ESV) states:
"You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you, they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel."
This verse is part of a larger passage in the book of Ezekiel describing the division of the land among the twelve tribes of Israel. It emphasizes the inclusive nature of the inheritance, extending it to both the native-born children of Israel and the sojourners residing among them. The idea is to treat those living among the Israelites as equal participants in the distribution of land.
"Sojourners" in biblical terms typically refer to foreigners or strangers residing in a land temporarily. These individuals are not native to the place where they are living but are there for various reasons such as travel, work, servant/slave or seeking refuge. The concept of treating sojourners justly and integrating them into the community is often emphasized in biblical teachings, promoting hospitality and fairness in their treatment. The verse from Ezekiel 47:22 underscores the idea that sojourners, along with native-born individuals, should share in the inheritance and be considered as part of the community.
Foreigners became Jewish
Try to read the entire old testament
When it comes to the issue of slavery God is either immoral by permitting it through rules or a trickster God hiding the truth from everyone by telling people they are permitted to practice slavery and then later saying it was always immoral. All the unnecessary suffering from slavery only to find out it was always immoral to begin with.
This is so monumentally sad….
It is a classic situation of someone just reading the modern translation of “slave” and assuming it meant the same then as now. Ironic, given for decades we have been told by these same people that we cannot just other cultures as “barbaric” or “uncivilised” just because they have different cultural norms and priorities.
aha and I guess there was an old world acceptable version of murder as well, how about rape.... well I guess it is the bible.....
It is a classic situation of lying to protect your beliefs.
Foreign slaves under Mosaic law had no protections. They could be bought, sold, separated from their families, beaten, raped, killed, kept for life, and passed down as inheritance. Their treatment was every bit as bad, if not worse, than slave treatment in Caribbean and Antebellum South.
Bergsma lied when he said "True slavery is outlawed for Israelites.' and "The other people around Israel could be enslaved, but only temporarily."
Leviticus 25 says different:
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 AND YOU SHALL TAKE THEM AS INHERITANCE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, to inherit them for a possession; THEY SHALL BE YOUR BONDMEN FOREVER: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
If you have to lie to protect your beliefs, it is time to get new beliefs. Your religion condones slavery.
Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
Exodus 21:8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.
The Bible allows fathers to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.
@@cygnusustus keep trying to hold on to the belief that the Bible condones slavery. you guys hold onto that verse for your very atheistic lives but let me ask you this. in verse 45 when it says that you can buy the children of strangers and their families, who is the buyer? if these people are free then they can sell their services alot like the verse says about the male and female slaves in verse 44
you only read one part of the verse and neglect to read and understand the rest.
Exodus 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
buying a slave that was forced into slavery would be having a kidnapped person in your possession and you would be put to death. so then these people chose to be in servitude.
@@cygnusustus and how would you know how slaves/servants in israel were treated back then? do you have some kind of source to back that up?
The bible not only condones slavery but gives exact instructions on how to beat them. Awful awful morality of scripture, yet again.
What of war captives? How are they to be treated
as slaves
This guy didn’t know much about the Old Testament and the Moses law.
He was simply stating his own assumptions on the slavey law of Old testament.
Your guest is unfortunately unaware, apparently, of the last 70 years of scholarship on this particular topic.
"No, you're wrong." **leaves** are my favorite type of comment lmao
He seems to be very confused about the context of the scripture he has read and who it is referencing, as he kept conflating the treatment meant for Hebrews to the treatment for non-Hebrew. The best question to ask him would be to provide the scripture then have him explain who the scripture is talking to and about in order to see if he can catch his mistake...
"Employment security and benefits"......LOL!
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
Wow what a disappointment that, after the female was raped, she was not to be treated as a slave......Because slavery had some wonderful "employment security and benefits"; )
I heard the jubilee year also erased debts as well.
You need to do more reading.
@@AallthewaytoZ2did you
@@Doctor_Fate5 You reply to a two month old comment? Get a life. There is a full discussion of slavery in the comments. This discussion is at an end.
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." not condoned? You sure?
the mental gymnastics these guys put themselves through to defend their favourite fiction text is astounding.
Bro said "you know" about a million times damn
I would encourage all of you to view this in the context of that time, for example Ex 21 20-21. The common practice back then was to give the slave no rights. Wouldn’t it be good if they at least got rights like every other human? Surely you could argue: Why not abolish it directly? Well, would it have been possible? Would it be possible to convince people who thought it was right to kill someone for disobedience to abolish slavery as a whole? No, ofc not. The people then don’t have the same living circumstances and great modern world as we do and hence they don’t see anything wrong with those practices. What would they do with people who did not obey? Tell Moses or the elders that their slave was a bad boy? Or take him to court? What would the answer be in the ancient world, they didn’t have any other options.
If _"non-race"_ based slavery was introduced in the near future and religion was used to justify it, would people accept it?
Well, one form of slavery in the Bible involves selling one's daughter into sexual slavery. The VAST majority of us view human traffickers as the lowest form of life. Shows how we view Biblical morality when we are forced to confront it head on.
@@Charlotte_Martel Excellent and insightful comment.
I don't think the biblical authors are infallible; @KristinaDMoore may have the best comment on this thread.
If you observe the videos with Dr John Bergsma, there's something off with both him and the interviewer.
@@AallthewaytoZ2 Thank you for the compliment. I usually like Matt's videos (the interviewer), but I sincerely hope that he doesn't have this guest back on. He really makes Christians look stupid/cruel by creating the false dichotomy btw God and science and by apologising for evil. Other commenters have said that he's a convert from Evangelicalism. It really shows.
No, because that would be a regression in history. Christianity itself is the force that progressed the world towards a hostility to slavery. God's dealings with humanity brings a progressive improvement over centuries and millinea. In other words, God didn't sweep in and end all social ills by ending all human evil at once, at least not since the flood. No, God laid down His moral rules, wherein if followed perfectly, it would mean the undoing of social ills such as slavery or poverty. And rather than domineering humanity, God kept a degree of distance from humanity, allowing for Ancient Israel to freely choose to follow through with its commitment to God. But because humanity is sinful, that space between God and man provides opportunity to sin. The sinfulness of man kept poverty and slavery a reality for longer than it needed to be.
But God's spiritual improvement of humanity does not end with disobedient Israel. When the long prophesied Christ finally arrived on the scene, it marked the next stage for humanity and provided, more than ever, the moral ethic that would eat away at humanity's desensitized attitude towards institutions like slavery.
And coming into the modern era, what we see are Christ followers taking the elevated moral standard of Jesus, and with it fighting and ultimately toppling the institution of chattle slavery. Slavery is still around today, but it's been driven into shadows, whereas it was once as common as McDonalds is now.
I can understand there were cultural differences and nuance between slavery in those times vs. in recent history...but he was asked point blank if the Bible condones slavery, and he said "actually not"...but then cut to 1:17 in this video...
Can we just be honest? Nuance or not, the Bible does condone slavery. It's a bad look to lie about what the Bible says.
Eh not quite I think.
I think it's also important to contextualize that a lot of these rules really only applied for the people of Israel, hence the specificity of a lot of these rules and rituals that took place during this time.
We need to keep in mind *slavery* itself was normalized during this time period. I think it's a little arrogant to say it's supports it when we have the hindsight of over a THOUSAND YEARS to condemn it especially when such rules only really applied to people of the time.
With that said I think the relavence of different text change over time, the Bible is no expection. Which is always important to keep in mind whenever we read these text.
Tl:Dr :Context and Relavence matters a lot in biblical text
The very first thing I acknowledged was context. Regardless of whether or not slavery was normalized culturally during this time, the Bible outlines rules of how to properly treat and own slaves. By definition, that is condoning it.
As to your "thousand years of hindsight to look back and condemn it" argument, God's infinite word ought to supercede temporary cultures, times, places...hence this is something I seriously struggle with when reading the Bible, because I have intellectual honesty when reading it.
@directback2284 Bible condones it. Period. There's no getting around the fact that God says slavery is fine. I think the guy being interviewed is just confused because he sees there's all these extras stipulations and you can only act in a kind and honoring way to slaves and they do have all these qualifications because the slaves still are made in God's image and must be treated as such. It's so different from any slavery we know that the guy answering the question confuses it for something else. But it's slavery. And God doesn't change, so if it was morally acceptable then, it's morally acceptable now. If course in America we have rules against that and God also says obey your government, so it would be still morally wrong in America for that reason.
Better men than I have bragged of being slaves or fools for Christ, so perhaps this subject has more cosmic proportions.@@jml5100
At best it doesn’t condemn slavery. It says to obey your master. I’m not sure God condones it, it’s allowed cuz of sin. Like many of the atrocities in the Bible, they happened but because of the human condition. I don’t blame God
Better and more appropriate question would be 'Does the bible condemn slavery"
Then we get a clearer picture of the position.
Like when the Catholic Church was OK with Nazis...... just in case they won.
Well it condemns slave trade
Ear lobe thing... if the slave goes FREE he dont get to keep his wife and children! Exodus 21: But if the servant plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door, or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him forever.
Correct answer. Slavery was not "condoned" but it certainly existed and was a massive trade for the economical structure.
It was definitely condoned. God didn't say "don't do it" he said "when you do it then do it this way." That's condoning.
If done as God says, slavery would be kept minimal, and to the variety of slavery the guest was describing, and perhaps even peter out entirely, in a healthy prosperous Nation that follows God's word. @@jml5100
@@jml5100 what a ridiculous display of logic, (or more like lack thereof)
@@jml5100 Don’t kid yourself. If you have debt you’re a slave to it. Don’t confuse oppression with indentured servitude.
@@metorphoric what a ridiculous display of an argument (or lack thereof)
Dr. Bergsma is significantly wrong in his analysis in this video. He gets bits right, but overall, misses the point.
1.) Slavery of Hebrew men and women was the extreme end of poverty safety net. It began with generationally guaranteed land, moved to harvesting edges of other people’s fields, and ended with voluntary slavery for one’s self or selling one’s children into slavery.
For Hebrew men, six years of service and freedom was given unless he desired to stay (normally if he had been given a slave wife during his enslavement). These enslaved men could be beaten heavily and could even die from their wounds. (It would probably be hard to make someone work for you, so physical violence seems natural)
For Hebrew women, they were sold as concubines (sex slavery) and could not be put off (divorced) or sold (this is not prostitution). Their marital rights of food, clothing, and sex could not be diminished.
Secondly, if you were convicted of a crime whose punishment was not death and you could not pay the fine (i.e. theft), you would become a slave to the man who you stole from. Without jails, this is how a society avoids the wicked cruelty of Islamic culture and the cutting off of hands for theft.
Thirdly, handling POWs. Instead of murdering every warrior you encountered on the battlefield, if you captured them, they became your slave for life. The Year of Jubilee did not apply to them and they could be passed down generationally.
Fourthly, sojourners in the land (i.e. Ruth) could not be enslaved because they had no legal status in Israel. The nation was to remember that they were slaves in Egypt.
Fifthly, the Year of Jubilee. We have zero evidence from biblical history that Israel ever practiced this law and significant reason to believe they didn’t. When Israel was sent into slavery, the number of years they would be exiled were the number of years they didn’t give the land it’s Sabbath rest. The land’s rest is the foundation for the Year of Jubilee.
In conclusion, the good doctor seems to be greatly mistaken in his view. It seems he would like to defend a generous perspective of biblical slavery without being accurate to the text.
As for Paul and the New Testament, the church had almost no power. It wouldn’t have changed the culture or left people on the street. In fact it did the exact opposite. But don’t put lipstick on a pig
The bible talks in depth about correct slave ownership but doesn't condone it? GTF outta here! These apologists really know how to verbally tap dance!
If slavery is so heinous, it would be ruled out entirely as a commandment rather than wasting the first four commandments protecting gods feelings!
The trouble is that most modern people wrongly consider slavery only as an absolute. If I asked, "Are people in your country free?", most responses would acknowledge degrees and kinds of freedom - that it is possible to be simultaneously free in one way but not another. Slavery is not a particular and absolute institution, but rather the opposite of freedom. It also can exist by degrees and variations. A person can be a slave in one way and free in another. Ancient customs of debt slavery demonstrate this, as do company towns or even non-compete contracts in modern societies. Both freedom and slavery appear in countless ways.
Thus, expecting Jesus to formally banish slavery is like expecting Him to formally establish freedom. Christianity does not promise freedom from all forms of oppression or hardship in this fallen world. Rather, God offers joy and hope amid the crosses we are called to carry until our salvation is completed with Christ's triumphant return and we are transfigured like He was.
Dr. Michael Heiser did a better job of explaining this. Human slavery is going to be abolished like every other evil. Maybe it would help to distinguish the law of Moses vs the Divine Law. To me this is like when the Pharisees questioned Christ on divorce in Matthew 19.
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Jesus said Moses permitted them to divorce their wives, but this was not the will of God.
Even in our modern society we tolerate things that are clearly immoral.
I've never seen this as a contradiction of the greatest commandment in Mark 12:28-34.
This is simply lying
What’s the truth?
How?
@@gregvitkow521 There is no section in the Bible which says that you have to release slaves purchased from the people around. In fact they can be part of one's inheritance.
You can’t have a brain and a religion at the same time. Choose one
I don't know, man. I think I have a brain. Because you know, if I didn't, I would probably die.
Is looking up religious channels to find a video on Christian ethics just to go into the comment section to make a wife sweeping comment that you are implicitly more intelligent and reasonable than the entire religious world a behavior someone with a brain would partake in?
Is it freeing slavery or firing slaves?
“You can own a slave and beat them without punishment and are allowed to beat them without punishment so long as they don’t die within a few days!” - the bible
Why no 11th commandment.
Why no question mark?
There's like 63 or 66 commandments, just keep reading.
@@rickandrygel913 Christians only recognize ten commandments
The 1st 3 can be thrown out with no impact on our understanding of morality. Certainly, prohibitions against rape, spousal/child abuse, and slavery should take their place. The world would have been a much better place.
What many Bible literalists get wrong is that “The Bible” could “say”
“Slavery is fine” and it would STILL be wrong, and said hypothetical passage would need study, discernment, and INTERPRETATION of those who study it as a lifestyle.
Not if the Bible represents (as it claims to) Christian's absolute source of moral authority by virtue of it being God's Word.
You know, just the belief of all Christians ever.
@@lausdeo4944 um, no. There are at least 1.3 billion Christians that do not believe so, at least not 100% and not in a literal sense, and only half of said text…this is why I said Bible literalists, not Christians.
Circa 1640, everything went south…
@@percypercerton2125 The 1.3 billion Christians you're describing still believe the Bible is God's revealed word. They just believe the Church is another form of God's revealed authority.
He chooses his words very carefully if you read the Torah for yourself you will see what he said isn’t completely true
If Leviticus were truly the word of god it might read something like this: The kings and the wealthy of the nation shall share their wealth equally amongst the people, for no man should be the property of another;
... Defending the ownership of another human being in any regard is reprehensible, and the fact that the Bible condones it demonstrates clearly that it was written by men in interest of a specific tribe of people.
Your proposal makers no sense and it's not feasible in the real world.
Whatever anyone says or the men who wrote the Bible say, I abhor slavery and encourage anyone who is enslaved to do whatever they can to get out if feasible. There's no justification for using people for sex, free labor, etc. I am glad my ancestors rebelled, some waited it out, some jumped off the ships before they got here. I honor all of them. The God I know is not and was never for the enslavement and subjugation of my ancestors. Chattel slavery was horrible beyond belief. It was never and is never right whoever participated. But, I don't believe in the infallibility of Bible writers. Thank goodness some humans bucked this system. Seems like excuses to do whatever you want to people as long as they are given the message of "salvation" in the next life. Forget that. The God I know is not for that.
😎Best (and sanest) comment!
I appreciate the sentiment regarding slavery. However, what is this God that you claim which couldn't have stopped such in the first place?
@@MyContext You need to provide a more convincing argument or people will think you're a teen.
@@AallthewaytoZ2
I didn't present an argument. So, exactly what are you talking about?
@@MyContext You're making argumentative comments. You come across as a petulant teen wanting attention.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground
Interesting how it doesn't mention ruling over other men, since that was not the original intention.
@@Giantcrabz The people of Israel demanded Monarchs in imitation of the pagan nations around them and God conceded to their demand with a warning that the Kings would abuse their authority. Therefore, God set limitations on monarchical authority to prevent abuse of the people's rights. See Deuteronomy 17:14-20.
He's trying so hard to justify it, failed miserably.
For a man who claims he wrote his dissertation on biblical slavery, he is wildly inept when speaking about it.
This man shows that degrees don't guarantee intelligence. He also believes in a literal Noah's ark and worldwide flood and at least is sympathetic to young earth creationism.
I suspect this guy has created more atheists than Christopher Hitchens.
For Israelites😂
If you have a cogent argument against what he just CITED, I suggest you present it rather than a two-word mockery of an argument accompanied by an emoticon.
The reason why the slave might stay in slavery? If the master introduces you to a wife and you have a kid... They belong to the master.
@ 0:57 Every 50th year??? Not every 7th year?
So the answer is yes, it does condone slavery.
Where did you get that? Did you even watch the video or are you just commenting the first thing you want to believe?
@@TheBanjoShowOfficial I got it from the video. In which he repeatedly talks about how the Bible condones slavery. Clues were his use of the word slavery to refer to everything he was talking about. Supported by the Bible.
@@_the__void_yes, Bible condone slavery. Even now slavery still exist. Every one who become laborer is slavery right ? And everyone who has debt work for pay debt
@@samueldani-gr6ge No, not at all. I said nothing about the "kind" of slavery. Only that, in his own words, he repeatedly referred to what the Bible condones as "slavery". Therefore, it logically follows that the Bible condones slavery.
But certainly the Bible explicitly condones the slavery of non-Israelites, by force, while slaughtering those not to be kept as slaves. And taking slaves from other places. And it certainly does not make the same concessions about freeing them after a length of time.
So the Bible condones slavery. It's not even contentious.
@@_the__void_ yes, he said about slavery non Israelite and how to treat them.
After winning war, what Will u do to people who still live. Let them go so they can revenge to you another time. Feed them and make ur family starving. Or u slay them once for all ?
Wait, what? Non Hebrews were released on the Jubilee year? No. Just no. He has to know this is not true. Especially if his dissertation was on the Jubilee year. The Jubilee year only applied to Hebrews because it's when the land granted to them by God Himself would revert back to the families of the tribes to which it was originally granted, debts of those Hebrews were forgiven, and Hebrew indentured servants were released. Every 50 years. Every 7 years was the Sabbath year, not the Jubilee year. And NEITHER applied to non-Hebrew Israelites. Dr. Bergsma could possible say this is beyond me.
Non Hebrew Isrealites had to land in Israel to return to in either the Jubilee or Sabbath years. Which is why they were never released. For Petes sake, he specifically mentions Leviticus 25 where the Bible literally says they are slaves for life. And their children after them.
"You may bequeath them to you sons after you to inherit as a possession forever"
So yes, the Bible condones lifelong, generational chattel slavery. And no, Dr. Bergsma is wrong here. He has to know this?
By not condemning slavery when confronted with it, god shows tacit approval at a minimum. It should have been the 11th commandment. Thou shalt not own other people.
I’ve been watching modern day debate and have watched three videos on slavery debates between Matt dilahaunty and other people none of the Christian perspective have seemed to make valid or hard sticking points. We need someone like John B. and Jordan Peterson. to clear the air On this so many people are mislead on these debates and comments full of people who now are convinced the Bible promotes slavery
A troubling and disturbing video.
Dr Bersma, _"Typically, there were cultural expectations and yeah legally an owner might be able to be a real jerk um but there were social norms that were typically upheld and most people did not want to be perceived as an evil person in the eyes of the rest of society."_
_"... an owner might be able to be a real jerk"_ = physical and sexual abuse.
Maids have and are subject to sexual abuse by their employers - the power and legal relationship between master and slave would have made such abuse more likely not less.
Horrific.
You could imagine Dr Bergsma being hired by modern corporate entities to justify the reintroduction of _"non-race"_ based slavery given his arguments and excuses.
Why do we care about modern corporations?
"the power and legal relationship between master and slave would have made such abuse more likely not less."
Ya... you will need to provide more proof of this. I'm skeptical of this claim.
@@harddrive9789 Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
Exodus 21:8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.
The Bible allows fathers to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.
"Actually not."
There is no quicker way to get a Christian to lie than to ask them about slavery in the Bible.
"True slavery is outlawed for Israelites.'
BUT ISRAELITES WERE ALLOWED TO OWN FOREIGN SLAVES AS CHATTEL!
"The other people around Israel could be enslaved, but only temporarily?
Good lord, these people have been lying through their teeth for 2000 years.
Leviticus 25:
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 AND YOU SHALL TAKE THEM AS INHERITANCE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, to inherit them for a possession; THEY SHALL BE YOUR BONDMEN FOREVER: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
This is one sick religion.
Got it…according to the Bible, slavery was safer and better than entrepreneurship
I know too many socialists who would say the same thing.
Yes
I am so grateful that you put things like this out there. It reminds me why I can’t give in and go back to church. What a disingenuous representation of the bible by I assume a church leader. Absolute rubbish!
Those were some nice points you made to refute anything he said in the video.
@@alexeligon3643Lol. When it doubt, just deny it! Whenever these guys hear something that doesn’t fit their atheist notion, they just call it a load of crap and leave
@@fatstrategist Why don’t you read it? Do girl slaves have a say in who has sex with them? Can a man keep the kids he had while he was a slave? If you beat your slave badly enough that he dies, it just takes a few days, does anything happen to the owner? You're not engaging with the book and you think that's a good thing? Why?
@@CarlosPerez-kr7ml You clearly missed the part about their maintaining of their human rights.
@@fatstrategist I read the book. I listened to the clip. You did neither.
There was indentured servitude and there was permanent slavery. Why present as IF there wasn't permanent slavery when it is the case that there was permanent slavery? Further, while it is the case that some masters would treat their slaves decently, it was certainly not the case that such was wholly decent given the depiction that so long as a person didn't suffer permanent injury from a beating - everything is fine given that the slave is property.
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Loved it, could you expand it and just talk about the history of Christianity and slavery. I feel that the atheists need to hear it.
Among the atheists that have taken the time to review the Bible, they know that slavery was a permanent state of affairs NOT to be conflated with indentured servitude. The idea that "God couldn't have prevented slavery" is to declare that God is a fiction given the claim of omnipotence omniscience omnipresence and omnibenevolence.
@@MyContext so nothing between 100 AD and the current day?
@@Starfield_Eclipse
What are you referencing?
Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
Exodus 21:8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.
The Bible allows fathers to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.
@@tomasrocha6139 yes, I know what exodus contains but did you know that it's was Christians that formed the abolitionist movement. Why is that?
Chattle slavery is very different than ancient world slavery.
Not really. Not at all, actually.
@@thepalegalilean He's in denial. The comments on this video have been eye opening.
Exactly. Exodus 21:16
Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession
It had to be consensual. Is that really oppressive slavery if it is a consensual agreement?
There's chattle slavery today but it's totally ignored for political reasons. We call it human trafficking now. The southern border slave trade and the continuous trans African slave trade via Libya.
Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
Exodus 21:8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.
The Bible allows fathers to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.