Yep, still riding my 3x9 Shimano XT. It runs great, shifts like a dream even when packed with mud. No need to follow the latest trend just because the bike manufacturers tell you to. Spending more $$$ on extra gears you may rarely ever use is a bad trend to follow. I ride with others who have the latest 12 speeds, and they are definitely NOT faster then me. I also have a road tandem with 3x10. We've been on tours where we used every gear on the cassette and every chainring. No way will I ever give up my front derailleur.
2x 9 speed is possible with 520% range. Get a Samox hollowtech style crankset and change the 28 tooth inner ring with a 26 XT. With the 18 tooth difference, (26- 44 )you've exceeded Shimano Sora recommendations. Then install an 11-36 cassette which also exceeds Shimano recommendations. This works fantastic on my road touring bike. I believe if you get the 175mm crank length the spindle length will be long enough with spacers to work with a hardtail mountain bike. Suspension would make this move risky as you're already pushing capacity. 12 speed has very large ratio jumps towards the small end of its cassettes.
Another vote for 2x! Back when I was racing we did testing, and almost no one pedals anything deeper than 1:1.25 (27t front/34t rear) faster than they can push and run. A two ring optimized everything except for a very few situations, and that's not even considering the huge mechanical improvement.
I have been looking at changing out an old drivetrain, and found Sheldon's website was an intriguing and helpful tool. I could replace my 2x9 speed (29/44 front 11-34 rear) with 1x11 (38t, 11-46 and have the same range excluding the very top gear (running 26" wheels). Considering I normally stop pedalling and I am focussing on bike control by the time I reach speeds necessitating that gear, I doubt I would miss it.
Good video! I’m a less is more kind of guy, so feel that for mountain biking you really don’t need more than 5 speeds. You can still have a big gear range, just bigger jumps between gears. When mountain biking the terrain changes so quickly that often by the time we get in the gear needed we are already past where we needed it. I believe that the future of mountain biking will be way less gears and adapting a little more of a single speed riding style with those gears……. but I have been wrong before lol!
I haven't tried anything else than 12 speed since that's what I got on my Trek TF, I have however had quite a few older bikes with 3 gears up front and while I seen the benefits of not having it, I do miss it sometimes, the ability to go from a light to a heavy gear quickly is something the 1x10/11/12 systems can't match
I've only very recently gone to 12 speed deore. My old bike (which I still have) is 11 speed and for the terrain I ride which is mostly xc/trail it does the job very well.
I just rebuilt my hard tail earlier this year and I rebuilt it with the last year of the 10 speed deore and it’s perfect! I have ridden 12 speed and I don’t see it being that much of an advantage
2x drivetrains for a better chainline. I borrowed a friend's 1x12 speed mtb and went on a climb. When I looked down at how the chain sat on the bigger cog it made me cringe. It also made some noises from that angle- it's obvious the chain doesn't like to sit that way and that also wears out the front chainring way more in that position. So if you're not a weight weenie I think a 2x system will do you better. Wouldn't be surprised if you also lose some watts in that extreme gear combo
need to take into consideration that : yes, you can always find a substitution for 50 or 52 in combination with front 30 or 28 but 10-30 and especially 28 will give you pretty slow sprint speed, or if it is marathone will get suffering chasing the group etc. For sure always difficult to find something universal. Need to admit that sometimes money can buy you more range when it comes to low & high gear in one : 10-52/34 covers probably 90% of all needs, but costy. Personally sometimes when having a course with many flat areas would use 36 at front . By the was China cassetes have 9!-52 seen)) ? not sure it will work the same as sram and how will it influence a chain life .. but )
Nobody really need. But it depends on how you use your bike. I'd say to get a more versatile bike there will be more benefits with more gears. I'm convinced that it will be less awkward to have a 12s than 3-4 chainrings, some cassetts and a pile of shifters to adjust your trip. So I will stick with my 36-10/51 setup.
10 speed is not enough, 12 speed is an overkill. Imho 11-51 Deore 11spd is perfect - spacing/range. 1x10 setup has terrible 15-18-21T gear jump, which is isn't the case with 11spd drivetrain.
I had deore xt 12 speed on my canyon torquw cf, now ive got a lapierre spicy with sram gx 11 speed, i do miss the extra gear from time to time, sometimes i find the gear ratio i want just isnt there.
For me 11 speed is the sweet spot on gearing, with an XD hub I can have 10:42 or 10:46, for local rides I’m currently using 10:42 and a 32t up front and I bought used 30 and 28t rings (GXP direct mount) for longer/hillier rides.
Depending on the application actually most downhill bikes are specked with 7-speed. at the end of the day, it's your bike your rule. as long as you're happy and it suits your needs.
Nah! It's all comparable...it's a bike and bikes pedal to move forward....no matter what group the bike is in...just ride your bike and be happy like the original poster said...I swear some people like to argue or be objective for the sake of it...most trails and bike parks don't have a lift, or a means of getting up the hill...so you ride your bike up it....😂 All those gears are useless You're wasting your energy on all that pedaling and going nowhere ...
12 speed for my e bike is too much for me,im thinking about going to ten speed,i have never used the fist 3 gears,so going to a ten still leaves me another gear as an option,and going up steep climbs i still havent used 1,2 or 3 🤷♂️
Great explanation of gear ratios. Nice to see the late Sheldon Brown get a mention. One thing you didn’t mention is chain longevity- I suspect a 10 speed chain lasts longer? I personally don’t feel the need for anything beyond my Shimano 10 speed drivetrains, (30T 11-46) for basic trail riding. Btw nice cornering technique in the video!
I have ran 9 to 12 speed , I think 12 speed is best for even trail and Enduro on regular bikes . I would think 10 speed would be just fine for e-bike though, I skip gears a lot on my e trail bike.
I went from 12 & 11 to 9 on all of my bikes. 9spd chains are more durable, if your mech gets slapped by a rock there is more room for alignment errors and still function reliably and I live in relative flat ground where I don't need the lowest 51 and with plus tires the 10 is pointless too.
I'll convert all drive trains to 8 speed once they wear out because it's cost effective and it's all you need. 11-46 tooth is all I need anyway. You can buy a 8 speed cassette, chain and sprocket for the price of one 12 speed cassette 😅
10 speed here, and have to clarify I'm not staying "retro" with a 10 speed. I purposefully went from Shimano SLX 12 speed down to Microshift Advent X (10). Reasons: - tired of shifting 2-4 at a time with the 12 speed (ratios were too close) - tired of adjusting them. During any ride, the dirt, rocks, branches, even twigs would bring it slightly out of adjustment, enough that it would the chain start rubbing with the next cog. - since I snap chains often (even singe speed thick ones), I was too afraid to put any amount of torque in the system. - all of these reasons made me wince at paying top dollar when replacement time came. Definitely NOT worth the cost. In fact, if 10 speed was the same price or more, it probably would have been worth paying extra to have a system with less maintenance requirements, lighter, stronger and gears spaced wider apart so I didn't need to shift 2-4 at a time.
10 speed with a 46t largest cog is fine if your ride up is typically a fire road, however if you want to get up something steep and technical you really need a larger cassette (especially with a 29" rear wheel). The 11 speed Deore cassette is 51t on the largest cog so is a really good option if you want to keep things on a budget and have a wide range cassette.
I ride in northern Utah, which means lots of climbing and some steep sections. I am currently on a 29er with SRAM Eagle 12 with 32 tooth chain ring up front. I find the big 51 tooth ring in the back is nice when I want to winch my way up things. But, I am rarely in that gear. I am also never in my 10 tooth. In the middle, I find myself shifting up or down more than 1 gear on almost all shifts. That tells me that I have too many gears. Shimano and SRAM 12 highly tuned tech and work great, but 12 speed also increased complexity and cost. I want a wide range 10 speed set up. My wife is on a bike with 27.5" wheels and AdventX 10 speed (11-48 with 30 tooth chainring) and that works great for her. When I have to replace my current drivetrain that is what I will put on. AdventX 10 speed is close enough on weight (same as GX and 100 g more than X01), way less money, shifts great, and so far, has been reliable.
I've gone to a 34T chainring because I'm always spinning out on descents on 32. The 52T sprocket lets me climb just about anything. Never thought about effects on suspension performance and kick back I must say 🤓
I've been running Microshift's Advent X for the last 2,5 years and I'm super happy with it. Before that, I kind struggled to find a drivetrain that fit my riding style. It turns out that Advent X was the answer. The 11-48 cassette together with a 30t chainring up front is the perfect combination for me.
@@joecavallio1293I have the same setup on my hard tail and it's nice. With the local desert terrain if I need more than 48t then the hill is too steep to climb sitting down anyway. I would want to be in 3rd or 4th to torque the front end up and get maximum traction and drive. A wider range 12 speed only opens up a bigger front sprocket and a little higher top speed going down the paved hills to and from the trails.
I made the exact same switch when I pulled the trigger on 1x drivetrain for the hardtail. The only time the 48t cassette didn't work great, I could just as easily blame my fitness.
After a few more or less successful attempts to go wide range 1x, I realised two things: 1. You really need a dedicated 1x drivetrain. Expanders, longer B screws don't really work properly in my experience. 2. I really need the same ratio that the granny 22t ring x whatever the largest cog was on the old cassette, can't remember now. You're not going to get fitter overnight by pushing harder gears. I got Box components prime 9 (9sp) drivetrain - 11x50 cassette, and I have 28t up front, which gives me that exact ratio. So far I haven't span out even on fast flowy stuff. So no, I don't think you need 520% range, and you certainly don't need 12sp.
On my Hardtail it still run an 11-Speed drivetrain, because it hasn’t got a micro spline free hub body and I didn’t want to mess around with changing it. I fitted an Shimano M5100 cassette with 11-51 ratio and never felt like I missing something, compared to my 12speed bike.
yep, HTs don't need the 12 speed at all in my view. the M5100 is a great value proposition - it has the same high quality shifting as the 12 speed with less price, and weight (11 speed Deore v 12 speed Deore)
Hi, I'm forced to switch from 2x10 to 1x10 because of frame replacing due to warranty. I bought a 11x50 light Sunrace cassett and run a 32 front ring. I have all the gearing range I need on both ends and I'm not bothered by the slightly larger gap between the gears. So I find 1x10 practically equal 1x12.
I run the 12 speed 10 - 50 GX Eagle cassette since 2017. The best drivetrain I've had for sure. With the 32 sprocket it will get me almost anywhere, but if I go on a trip with long streep climbs, I can put a 30 tooth sprocket, lower gear ratio than 0,6 makes no sense, you go that slow that it's better to go walking instead.
When it comes down to it, most riders only use 3:1 anyway- easily covered by any ol' 1x9. Doing that, what you lose is pedaling smoothness between gears, so the real benefit of multiple gears is not 'absolute ability' or effort, but smoothness. 3x setups with close ratio cassettes were incredible for climbing and where you could keep in a given ring pedaling in cadence.
This exactly! I have a 1x9 32t in the front 11-42t in the back, and 65% of the time I'm in the lowest gear (11t), with 30% in the lower gears, and rarely I use the lare cogs. And even when I use them, the 42t is more than I need because Istrugle keeping the front wheel on the ground at that point.
@@edymarin7781- I used to be able to climb 1:1.4 gearing (20t ring/28t low in the cassette) bitd, but it required bar ends and all my weight forward, as you say. Working up smoothly through those nine speeds on a long climb was a deeply satisfying experience.
I have been running 11-50 10 speed on a super cheap m5100 derailleur and only a M4100 shifter for my hard tail... Works great for blue trails, fire roads etc, So range on cheap 10 speed is not the issue you just get bigger gaps.
I'll get the 1x12 sram with mullet setup so I can get up most of the climbs. It's important to have the correct gears when bikepacking especially as a heavier rider. On my 1x11 (40, 11-51) with my ebike switched off (roughly my future Bike with the bikepacking gear) I need around 350 watts in a lot of climbs already. That's too much above my ftp.
I use 10 speed with an XT clutch system. Great price at $70, 10 speed cassettes are affordable too! I use 22/36 rings up front, and a 44t cog on the cassette. That gives me a 500% gear ratio. And why are you talking about 10 speeds without two rings up front? 12 speed is great for spending money and achieving a terrible chain line. And also for having a lower top speed pedaling. 1x systems have a top speed of 20mph on flats. What a joke.
Doesn’t 52t cog just make it too easy, hence reducing the work, hence making you a weaker rider. Imagine riding a downhill groupset up hills, after month you’d be pretty beefy.
I'd like to see a video covering the cost verses the durability of the 12 speed against the other systems. I ride in a lot of low speed tech and have removed all of my 12 speed drivetrains to go back to 11speed just for being tired of the weakness of the 12 speed parts and how easily they get knocked out of alignment, yep and the cost too.
10 speed is way better... it weights significantly less and is just more minimalist. PLUS a 10 speed will shift much better as the gears are not so close together
This was a little unfair. 10-50/51 or 11-51 10 speed cassettes do exist and aren't even that hard to come by... there are still advantages to 12 speed, but range isn't as big a deal as it's made out to be here!
i just bought a 10 speed. not bad. i ride an 8 speed pretty regularly. 40-11 w/ a 32 tooth front ring. really enjoy the range and ease of use for the riding that i do. yeah i have a few bikes....
I have a 10 speed on my full sus emtb and to be honest I rarely use the 8-10 gears. So I feel 10 speed is enough. Does anyone else feel the same as me?
Pretty sure that I use all 12 speeds of my SRAM drivetrain (10/52 cogs and 32T chainring) on my 2023 Specialized Levo SL Gen 2 e-bike for my climbing needs in the Sierra Nevada Mountain of the western US. And had similar gearing on my 2016 Santa Cruz Hightower before I went e-biking.
Have 12 speed on the trail full suss with 29 wheels and 11 speed on hard tail with 29 wheels. Like the close gear ratios on the 12 speed for the Highlands of Scotland where I live and ride. Feel the 11 speed has a noticeable jump down/up mid way down cassette on the Shimano 5100 I use. But 11 speed is cheaper and seems more durable in the lower end parts I can afford. If I could afford full xt or xtr I'd go 12 speed for both bikes. Never thought about wheel size having an effect on the gearing. Interesting to know that. A trip to Sheldon's gear ratio website I think 😊
3x9 spd 26" rider here, loving the range, but not loving the chain retention. I would like a 10 or a 9t cog on the casette to chase roadies on the streets. Used to have 44/32/22 chainrings with 11-34 casette which was awesome, but the biggest chainring would hit obstacles with trialsy moves so I replaced it with a 42/32/22 and 11-32 which gives a lil more room but I sure would like something that gives me high clearance with high top speed, a good climbing gear and a clutched derailleur...not impossible, just way too expensive, especially on my old 2010 era xc bike. If only classified made that front derailleur killer more affordable..
12 speed eagle on my gravel bike with 11-50 with a 46T front (sometimes 42t front). 10 speed deore 11-46 on my 26 mountian bike with 34t. 12 speed on the gravel thing as that has a wider speed range i use it in. i commute on it ride some off road on it mountain bike not much fussed on the range, it only needs to go up and go down, going up im in biggest gear, going down it doesn't really matter i'm likely not pedaling. oh and for chainrings, stick to sram cranks with 3bolt spider mount, that way you can get chainrings from 52t down to 24t for that mount as no spider.
#AskGMBNTech Hi there! I've installed thicker grips on my bike for better grip but now i have a hard time fitting my thumb under the deore 12s SL-M6100 lever. Can i somehow make the shifter stick further away from the handlebars? Washers, new bracket, etc.?
I went down from almost 620% range in my 26” 3x9 to measly 360% 1x9 and I love it. If I were to buy a new one it definitely will be 1x10 with around 420% range, which would be like adding one sprocket to my current setup.
Guess depends how much you use the ends of the gear range really, arguably for 10s a double does expand the range by a fair margin, as you end up with a narrow range of gears. Same broadly speaking with gravel bikes the tipping point for 1by and range is probably 11s?
I just got shimano 10s linkglide. perfect range, and very good how it shifts under load. 26" Cannondale with Lefty and 42 chinning. So 26" 42-11/42 10s, perfect.
Never felt the need to step up to 12 speeds so I'm still on 11 speed drivetrains. Considering that Shimano CUES now offers 11-46 cassettes in 9 speeds, 11-48 in 10-speeds and 11-50 in 11-speeds (all Linkglide and using old 11-speed dimensions) I think that even Shimano realizes that 12 speeds isn't needed for most of us.
Pros and cons to each but, much lower cost and easier setup on 10 speed work for me. Advent X 10-48 on my gravel bike with 38t chain ring. I can get up anything where it wouldn't be quicker to walk and I'm fast enough on a road wheel set to do club group rides.
Really nice video! I have a 12s system now and it's very annoying for trail riding. I used to have a 2x11 without problems (27 wheels), but I didn't like the front derauleur. 1x11 seems ideal to me for trail riding.
Wow, once again, Anna simplifies what could've been a dreadfully boring, over complicated topic while still offering a wealth of usable info- Thanks! I do prefer a 12sp cassette w/30t chainring to help my under-powered legs up those tougher climbs. But I found SRAM's newer 520% 52t cog to be just too much of a physical chain jump for efficient shifting on the fly, especially under hill-climbing pressure. Even better is Shimano's SLX 10-51t cassette, which seems to have more useful 'steps' from gear to gear.😉
I'm wondering why the chain line is so poor when in the biggest chain ring. When I peddle backward in this gear the chain automatically drops two cogs. Is this the way it's always been designed? I would never have my chain on that much of an angle on my road bike.
10 speed for the win. Even running Microshift Advent X for a while but recently swapped the derailleur only for a Deore 11s and it works even better that way.
I was very happy with 2x9 for road and 3x9 for my very non-racing off-road pedaling. I was VERY happy with $50 cassettes instead of $250.
I bet that front derailleur will be back. They certainly sold bicycles with front derailleurs for many years.
@@daniellarson3068 it 100% will not come back for mtb.
Yep, still riding my 3x9 Shimano XT. It runs great, shifts like a dream even when packed with mud. No need to follow the latest trend just because the bike manufacturers tell you to. Spending more $$$ on extra gears you may rarely ever use is a bad trend to follow. I ride with others who have the latest 12 speeds, and they are definitely NOT faster then me. I also have a road tandem with 3x10. We've been on tours where we used every gear on the cassette and every chainring. No way will I ever give up my front derailleur.
2x 9 speed is possible with 520% range. Get a Samox hollowtech style crankset and change the 28 tooth inner ring with a 26 XT. With the 18 tooth difference, (26- 44 )you've exceeded Shimano Sora recommendations. Then install an 11-36 cassette which also exceeds Shimano recommendations. This works fantastic on my road touring bike. I believe if you get the 175mm crank length the spindle length will be long enough with spacers to work with a hardtail mountain bike. Suspension would make this move risky as you're already pushing capacity. 12 speed has very large ratio jumps towards the small end of its cassettes.
Lies! Deore 12 speed cassette is around $80
2x11 I love the front derailleur you can drop when it suddenly gets really steep. Looks less clean but I have no complaints..
The front derailleur’s not so bad to live if it’s only a 2x, and the narrow steps are really nice
@@MehYam2112 I fully agree.
Another vote for 2x! Back when I was racing we did testing, and almost no one pedals anything deeper than 1:1.25 (27t front/34t rear) faster than they can push and run. A two ring optimized everything except for a very few situations, and that's not even considering the huge mechanical improvement.
Totally agree.
Better chainline. Ability to drop several gears at once. Cheaper, stronger chain. Wa-a-a-y cheaper cassette.
2 x 10 is my bike, love the granny wheel
I have been looking at changing out an old drivetrain, and found Sheldon's website was an intriguing and helpful tool. I could replace my 2x9 speed (29/44 front 11-34 rear) with 1x11 (38t, 11-46 and have the same range excluding the very top gear (running 26" wheels). Considering I normally stop pedalling and I am focussing on bike control by the time I reach speeds necessitating that gear, I doubt I would miss it.
Good video! I’m a less is more kind of guy, so feel that for mountain biking you really don’t need more than 5 speeds. You can still have a big gear range, just bigger jumps between gears. When mountain biking the terrain changes so quickly that often by the time we get in the gear needed we are already past where we needed it. I believe that the future of mountain biking will be way less gears and adapting a little more of a single speed riding style with those gears……. but I have been wrong before lol!
Afew years ago i changed from 3by10 to 1by12 on my 26erMTB and its fine. Less gear ratio now , but i use the MTB only in the woods.
12 speed is a must if you want to climb on steep trail on enduro bike.
I haven't tried anything else than 12 speed since that's what I got on my Trek TF, I have however had quite a few older bikes with 3 gears up front and while I seen the benefits of not having it, I do miss it sometimes, the ability to go from a light to a heavy gear quickly is something the 1x10/11/12 systems can't match
Perhaps not necessary, but nice to have. Combined with larger chain ring, you get lot more versatility.
I've only very recently gone to 12 speed deore. My old bike (which I still have) is 11 speed and for the terrain I ride which is mostly xc/trail it does the job very well.
I just rebuilt my hard tail earlier this year and I rebuilt it with the last year of the 10 speed deore and it’s perfect! I have ridden 12 speed and I don’t see it being that much of an advantage
2x drivetrains for a better chainline. I borrowed a friend's 1x12 speed mtb and went on a climb. When I looked down at how the chain sat on the bigger cog it made me cringe. It also made some noises from that angle- it's obvious the chain doesn't like to sit that way and that also wears out the front chainring way more in that position. So if you're not a weight weenie I think a 2x system will do you better. Wouldn't be surprised if you also lose some watts in that extreme gear combo
need to take into consideration that : yes, you can always find a substitution for 50 or 52 in combination with front 30 or 28 but 10-30 and especially 28 will give you pretty slow sprint speed, or if it is marathone will get suffering chasing the group etc. For sure always difficult to find something universal. Need to admit that sometimes money can buy you more range when it comes to low & high gear in one : 10-52/34 covers probably 90% of all needs, but costy. Personally sometimes when having a course with many flat areas would use 36 at front . By the was China cassetes have 9!-52 seen)) ? not sure it will work the same as sram and how will it influence a chain life .. but )
Holy crap! I think I understand! Awesome explanation, thank you!
9 speed is plenty for me from a cost point my 9 spoed chains cost way less than most 12 speed setups
If you are enduro rider 10-11speed 11-42T is enough
High gear ratio is good only XC and Trail
Nobody really need. But it depends on how you use your bike. I'd say to get a more versatile bike there will be more benefits with more gears. I'm convinced that it will be less awkward to have a 12s than 3-4 chainrings, some cassetts and a pile of shifters to adjust your trip. So I will stick with my 36-10/51 setup.
Deore 11 speed 11-51t 🥰 (CS-M5100-11) what more do you need?
I have one bike with 12 speed and I honestly hate it. Hard to setup, never used the extra gear on top of the 11 speed...
10 speed is not enough, 12 speed is an overkill. Imho 11-51 Deore 11spd is perfect - spacing/range. 1x10 setup has terrible 15-18-21T gear jump, which is isn't the case with 11spd drivetrain.
Why not 11s ? I have XT M8000 on mine MTBs (ebike as well) and Ultegra on a road bike
I am on 9 and 10 speed still 😊
Does 2×12 will have any disadvantages?
I had deore xt 12 speed on my canyon torquw cf, now ive got a lapierre spicy with sram gx 11 speed, i do miss the extra gear from time to time, sometimes i find the gear ratio i want just isnt there.
Me after converting my 3×7 hard tail into a 1×9: Interesting
11s deore thankyouverymuch
Bought an old Nukeproof. 11 speed. If it ain't broke...
For me 11 speed is the sweet spot on gearing, with an XD hub I can have 10:42 or 10:46, for local rides I’m currently using 10:42 and a 32t up front and I bought used 30 and 28t rings (GXP direct mount) for longer/hillier rides.
Depending on the application actually most downhill bikes are specked with 7-speed. at the end of the day, it's your bike your rule. as long as you're happy and it suits your needs.
Yes, but downhill bikes are not made for pedaling uphill, so it's incomparable to the situation.
Nah! It's all comparable...it's a bike and bikes pedal to move forward....no matter what group the bike is in...just ride your bike and be happy like the original poster said...I swear some people like to argue or be objective for the sake of it...most trails and bike parks don't have a lift, or a means of getting up the hill...so you ride your bike up it....😂 All those gears are useless You're wasting your energy on all that pedaling and going nowhere ...
12 speed for my e bike is too much for me,im thinking about going to ten speed,i have never used the fist 3 gears,so going to a ten still leaves me another gear as an option,and going up steep climbs i still havent used 1,2 or 3 🤷♂️
@anthonywarren1317 you can compare a cat and a potato if you want to. I swear, some people need to make a point, no matter how irrational they are.
@@camperp195you're better off changing your chainring and keeping the gear gaps you have
Great explanation of gear ratios. Nice to see the late Sheldon Brown get a mention. One thing you didn’t mention is chain longevity- I suspect a 10 speed chain lasts longer? I personally don’t feel the need for anything beyond my Shimano 10 speed drivetrains, (30T 11-46) for basic trail riding. Btw nice cornering technique in the video!
I think 12 speed is designed for XC. It's nice that we have quite wide range 11 or 10 speed nowadays.
I have ran 9 to 12 speed , I think 12 speed is best for even trail and Enduro on regular bikes . I would think 10 speed would be just fine for e-bike though, I skip gears a lot on my e trail bike.
12 speed for Xc trails
10-11 speed for enduro
I went from 12 & 11 to 9 on all of my bikes. 9spd chains are more durable, if your mech gets slapped by a rock there is more room for alignment errors and still function reliably and I live in relative flat ground where I don't need the lowest 51 and with plus tires the 10 is pointless too.
10 speed you can get a derailleur with a clutch for super cheap. ( Also enough hills round here that 11-50 actually does get used....)
Shimano does make a XT 28t chainring. It will fit on any of their new direct mount cranks (FC-M7100, FC-M8100 and FC-M9100).
even xtr 28t like mine has. bcd 96
Raceface also makes them.
I'll convert all drive trains to 8 speed once they wear out because it's cost effective and it's all you need. 11-46 tooth is all I need anyway. You can buy a 8 speed cassette, chain and sprocket for the price of one 12 speed cassette 😅
3x8 is favourite of mine on town bikes
I’m still on 3 x 9!
2x8 here
2x9 on my main XC bike.
22-36 F and 11-36 R, wheels 27,5.
For extremely steep climbs a 40t cassette may be better, but the 36 one is fine for most
Ive got 10s with a saint shifter, does everything it needs to
10 speed here, and have to clarify I'm not staying "retro" with a 10 speed. I purposefully went from Shimano SLX 12 speed down to Microshift Advent X (10).
Reasons:
- tired of shifting 2-4 at a time with the 12 speed (ratios were too close)
- tired of adjusting them. During any ride, the dirt, rocks, branches, even twigs would bring it slightly out of adjustment, enough that it would the chain start rubbing with the next cog.
- since I snap chains often (even singe speed thick ones), I was too afraid to put any amount of torque in the system.
- all of these reasons made me wince at paying top dollar when replacement time came.
Definitely NOT worth the cost. In fact, if 10 speed was the same price or more, it probably would have been worth paying extra to have a system with less maintenance requirements, lighter, stronger and gears spaced wider apart so I didn't need to shift 2-4 at a time.
All you actually need is a 10 speed with a bigger range, it's not like they haven't made them.
10 speed with a 46t largest cog is fine if your ride up is typically a fire road, however if you want to get up something steep and technical you really need a larger cassette (especially with a 29" rear wheel). The 11 speed Deore cassette is 51t on the largest cog so is a really good option if you want to keep things on a budget and have a wide range cassette.
there are also plenty of chinese ten Speed 11-50 cassettes
I ride in northern Utah, which means lots of climbing and some steep sections. I am currently on a 29er with SRAM Eagle 12 with 32 tooth chain ring up front. I find the big 51 tooth ring in the back is nice when I want to winch my way up things. But, I am rarely in that gear. I am also never in my 10 tooth. In the middle, I find myself shifting up or down more than 1 gear on almost all shifts. That tells me that I have too many gears.
Shimano and SRAM 12 highly tuned tech and work great, but 12 speed also increased complexity and cost. I want a wide range 10 speed set up.
My wife is on a bike with 27.5" wheels and AdventX 10 speed (11-48 with 30 tooth chainring) and that works great for her. When I have to replace my current drivetrain that is what I will put on. AdventX 10 speed is close enough on weight (same as GX and 100 g more than X01), way less money, shifts great, and so far, has been reliable.
I've gone to a 34T chainring because I'm always spinning out on descents on 32. The 52T sprocket lets me climb just about anything. Never thought about effects on suspension performance and kick back I must say 🤓
I've been running Microshift's Advent X for the last 2,5 years and I'm super happy with it. Before that, I kind struggled to find a drivetrain that fit my riding style. It turns out that Advent X was the answer. The 11-48 cassette together with a 30t chainring up front is the perfect combination for me.
You do any big climbs with that set up? I was thinking of doing the exact same.
Yes, my local trails features some pretty damn steep climbs and this set up handles them perfectly. So I would say go for it! @@joecavallio1293
@@joecavallio1293I have the same setup on my hard tail and it's nice. With the local desert terrain if I need more than 48t then the hill is too steep to climb sitting down anyway. I would want to be in 3rd or 4th to torque the front end up and get maximum traction and drive.
A wider range 12 speed only opens up a bigger front sprocket and a little higher top speed going down the paved hills to and from the trails.
I made the exact same switch when I pulled the trigger on 1x drivetrain for the hardtail. The only time the 48t cassette didn't work great, I could just as easily blame my fitness.
After a few more or less successful attempts to go wide range 1x, I realised two things:
1. You really need a dedicated 1x drivetrain. Expanders, longer B screws don't really work properly in my experience.
2. I really need the same ratio that the granny 22t ring x whatever the largest cog was on the old cassette, can't remember now. You're not going to get fitter overnight by pushing harder gears. I got Box components prime 9 (9sp) drivetrain - 11x50 cassette, and I have 28t up front, which gives me that exact ratio. So far I haven't span out even on fast flowy stuff. So no, I don't think you need 520% range, and you certainly don't need 12sp.
On my Hardtail it still run an 11-Speed drivetrain, because it hasn’t got a micro spline free hub body and I didn’t want to mess around with changing it.
I fitted an Shimano M5100 cassette with 11-51 ratio and never felt like I missing something, compared to my 12speed bike.
yep, HTs don't need the 12 speed at all in my view. the M5100 is a great value proposition - it has the same high quality shifting as the 12 speed with less price, and weight (11 speed Deore v 12 speed Deore)
Mine is 1× 10 /32 × 11-50t
100grams less than 1×12 but almost the same gear ratio, three teeth difference...
Hi, I'm forced to switch from 2x10 to 1x10 because of frame replacing due to warranty. I bought a 11x50 light Sunrace cassett and run a 32 front ring. I have all the gearing range I need on both ends and I'm not bothered by the slightly larger gap between the gears. So I find 1x10 practically equal 1x12.
What derailleur are u using for the sunrace
1st you are beautiful, 2nd I'd prefer the 12 gears
If you only go downhill, you don't really even need a chain!
I run the 12 speed 10 - 50 GX Eagle cassette since 2017. The best drivetrain I've had for sure. With the 32 sprocket it will get me almost anywhere, but if I go on a trip with long streep climbs, I can put a 30 tooth sprocket, lower gear ratio than 0,6 makes no sense, you go that slow that it's better to go walking instead.
I’m on a Box Prime 9 (9 speed). Has a 11-50t range. 9 speed is more than enough.
I'm on a microSHIFT ADVENT CS-H093 9 speed with 11-42t and I can't agree more with you. The largest cog is more than I need for 99% of situations
When it comes down to it, most riders only use 3:1 anyway- easily covered by any ol' 1x9.
Doing that, what you lose is pedaling smoothness between gears, so the real benefit of multiple gears is not 'absolute ability' or effort, but smoothness. 3x setups with close ratio cassettes were incredible for climbing and where you could keep in a given ring pedaling in cadence.
your answer its what she missed to say
This exactly! I have a 1x9 32t in the front 11-42t in the back, and 65% of the time I'm in the lowest gear (11t), with 30% in the lower gears, and rarely I use the lare cogs. And even when I use them, the 42t is more than I need because Istrugle keeping the front wheel on the ground at that point.
@@edymarin7781- I used to be able to climb 1:1.4 gearing (20t ring/28t low in the cassette) bitd, but it required bar ends and all my weight forward, as you say. Working up smoothly through those nine speeds on a long climb was a deeply satisfying experience.
12 speed for me on 29 inch. But to each their own.
I have been running 11-50 10 speed on a super cheap m5100 derailleur and only a M4100 shifter for my hard tail... Works great for blue trails, fire roads etc,
So range on cheap 10 speed is not the issue you just get bigger gaps.
12 speed's are all bunched down low in the range anyway.
because loW gearing has bigger jumps proportionally. 11 to 13 is like 36 to 42@@Wireman134
I'll get the 1x12 sram with mullet setup so I can get up most of the climbs. It's important to have the correct gears when bikepacking especially as a heavier rider. On my 1x11 (40, 11-51) with my ebike switched off (roughly my future Bike with the bikepacking gear) I need around 350 watts in a lot of climbs already. That's too much above my ftp.
Honestly, I'm on 11spd and the big ring is great for steep climbs (perfect right?) but would love a 10 tooth.... 😕🤷♂️🙄
I use 10 speed with an XT clutch system. Great price at $70, 10 speed cassettes are affordable too!
I use 22/36 rings up front, and a 44t cog on the cassette.
That gives me a 500% gear ratio.
And why are you talking about 10 speeds without two rings up front?
12 speed is great for spending money and achieving a terrible chain line. And also for having a lower top speed pedaling. 1x systems have a top speed of 20mph on flats. What a joke.
Doesn’t 52t cog just make it too easy, hence reducing the work, hence making you a weaker rider. Imagine riding a downhill groupset up hills, after month you’d be pretty beefy.
Big cassette + more gear steps is logical.
But can anyone explain why gravity bikes use 10+ speeds with small cassettes?
All the 1x9 people feel ignored after watching this video (me included). I don't see any reason to up the gear numeber to 10, 11, or 12.
Probably don't need 12 gears, but many DO NEED the 500% gear range. At least to maintain 1X set ups.
Still very happy with my 2x10 setup. It also gives me the option to have a 22t chainring.
I'd like to see a video covering the cost verses the durability of the 12 speed against the other systems. I ride in a lot of low speed tech and have removed all of my 12 speed drivetrains to go back to 11speed just for being tired of the weakness of the 12 speed parts and how easily they get knocked out of alignment, yep and the cost too.
10 speed is way better... it weights significantly less and is just more minimalist. PLUS a 10 speed will shift much better as the gears are not so close together
This was a little unfair. 10-50/51 or 11-51 10 speed cassettes do exist and aren't even that hard to come by... there are still advantages to 12 speed, but range isn't as big a deal as it's made out to be here!
i just bought a 10 speed. not bad. i ride an 8 speed pretty regularly. 40-11 w/ a 32 tooth front ring. really enjoy the range and ease of use for the riding that i do. yeah i have a few bikes....
I say no. I ride a lot of box 9 that's 11-50 then just figure out the chainring up front.
i have 12 speed but i wish i have 9 or 10, because i always shift 2-3 speed up or down. half of speeds are useless
You forgot both Rotor and Campagnolo have had 13 speed groupsets for the past 2 years.
I have a 10 speed on my full sus emtb and to be honest I rarely use the 8-10 gears. So I feel 10 speed is enough.
Does anyone else feel the same as me?
I like the idea of less gears. As long as i have a 50 tooth for my skinny legs on the climbs.
Pretty sure that I use all 12 speeds of my SRAM drivetrain (10/52 cogs and 32T chainring) on my 2023 Specialized Levo SL Gen 2 e-bike for my climbing needs in the Sierra Nevada Mountain of the western US. And had similar gearing on my 2016 Santa Cruz Hightower before I went e-biking.
I regret getting a 1x12sp. It offers nothing over 1. I knew better
Have 12 speed on the trail full suss with 29 wheels and 11 speed on hard tail with 29 wheels. Like the close gear ratios on the 12 speed for the Highlands of Scotland where I live and ride. Feel the 11 speed has a noticeable jump down/up mid way down cassette on the Shimano 5100 I use. But 11 speed is cheaper and seems more durable in the lower end parts I can afford. If I could afford full xt or xtr I'd go 12 speed for both bikes. Never thought about wheel size having an effect on the gearing. Interesting to know that. A trip to Sheldon's gear ratio website I think 😊
1:00 Who wrote this historical recap? It's more than a little off.
They don't make a cassette the way I would want it, so yes we need 12 speed.
Still running 3 x 9 lol 🙈🙈 I love my 22-32 climbing gear!
3x9 spd 26" rider here, loving the range, but not loving the chain retention. I would like a 10 or a 9t cog on the casette to chase roadies on the streets. Used to have 44/32/22 chainrings with 11-34 casette which was awesome, but the biggest chainring would hit obstacles with trialsy moves so I replaced it with a 42/32/22 and 11-32 which gives a lil more room but I sure would like something that gives me high clearance with high top speed, a good climbing gear and a clutched derailleur...not impossible, just way too expensive, especially on my old 2010 era xc bike. If only classified made that front derailleur killer more affordable..
12 speed eagle on my gravel bike with 11-50 with a 46T front (sometimes 42t front). 10 speed deore 11-46 on my 26 mountian bike with 34t.
12 speed on the gravel thing as that has a wider speed range i use it in. i commute on it ride some off road on it
mountain bike not much fussed on the range, it only needs to go up and go down, going up im in biggest gear, going down it doesn't really matter i'm likely not pedaling.
oh and for chainrings, stick to sram cranks with 3bolt spider mount, that way you can get chainrings from 52t down to 24t for that mount as no spider.
#AskGMBNTech Hi there! I've installed thicker grips on my bike for better grip but now i have a hard time fitting my thumb under the deore 12s SL-M6100 lever. Can i somehow make the shifter stick further away from the handlebars? Washers, new bracket, etc.?
I love learning ❤
“Need” is never a word to be used when talking about hobbies. I don’t “need” 29” wheels, 170mm travel, or for that matter, a mountain bike.
am on 2x8 , with 40t back , much cheaper ,,
I have a 26" bike with 11-42 10s with 32t compared to my 12s 29" also with 32t bike, it climbs the same. Only top speed is highly lower on 26" bike
For me, 11 gears is more than enough. I rarely use first gear (46T) now, so no current need for the added weight, expense, and tuning of a 12 sp
12 speed XTR. Shifts like butter
I went down from almost 620% range in my 26” 3x9 to measly 360% 1x9 and I love it.
If I were to buy a new one it definitely will be 1x10 with around 420% range, which would be like adding one sprocket to my current setup.
Guess depends how much you use the ends of the gear range really, arguably for 10s a double does expand the range by a fair margin, as you end up with a narrow range of gears. Same broadly speaking with gravel bikes the tipping point for 1by and range is probably 11s?
I just got shimano 10s linkglide. perfect range, and very good how it shifts under load. 26" Cannondale with Lefty and 42 chinning. So 26" 42-11/42 10s, perfect.
Is linkglide only available with CUES right now?
My gravel bike has a Micro Shift Advent X 10spd with a Sunrace 11-50T cassette and i love it
I greattly prefer 10 speed and lower, solely because they're soooo much easier to adjust
Never felt the need to step up to 12 speeds so I'm still on 11 speed drivetrains. Considering that Shimano CUES now offers 11-46 cassettes in 9 speeds, 11-48 in 10-speeds and 11-50 in 11-speeds (all Linkglide and using old 11-speed dimensions) I think that even Shimano realizes that 12 speeds isn't needed for most of us.
They even have 11-51 Deore 11 speed
My bike is still on 9 speed and 26 wheels
Pros and cons to each but, much lower cost and easier setup on 10 speed work for me. Advent X 10-48 on my gravel bike with 38t chain ring. I can get up anything where it wouldn't be quicker to walk and I'm fast enough on a road wheel set to do club group rides.
Im running 2x on most my bikes it makes more sense if you want to climb easy and come down fast,
Yep. People running 1x top out at 20mph while I'm still gaining speed with my 36 tooth ring.
Really nice video! I have a 12s system now and it's very annoying for trail riding. I used to have a 2x11 without problems (27 wheels), but I didn't like the front derauleur. 1x11 seems ideal to me for trail riding.
Wow, once again, Anna simplifies what could've been a dreadfully boring, over complicated topic while still offering a wealth of usable info- Thanks!
I do prefer a 12sp cassette w/30t chainring to help my under-powered legs up those tougher climbs. But I found SRAM's newer 520% 52t cog to be just too much of a physical chain jump for efficient shifting on the fly, especially under hill-climbing pressure. Even better is Shimano's SLX 10-51t cassette, which seems to have more useful 'steps' from gear to gear.😉
Comments like this make all the effort worth it. Thanks! - Anna :)
I'm wondering why the chain line is so poor when in the biggest chain ring. When I peddle backward in this gear the chain automatically drops two cogs. Is this the way it's always been designed?
I would never have my chain on that much of an angle on my road bike.
You’re supposed to pedal towards.
Did you write that all on your own??? Or did your mommy help you?@@Cous1nJack
I went back to an old hardtail with 3x8 speed after riding full sus for a while. Actually it’s awesome loads of range for XC
What about the middle ground of 11 speed. No need to upgrade the free hub body and with the deore 11-51 cassette you are only losing the small gear.
is a ten tooth cog very good for the chain?
1x10 on 50t will be good
10 speed for the win. Even running Microshift Advent X for a while but recently swapped the derailleur only for a Deore 11s and it works even better that way.
10-45 is enough