No-one want to talk about increased chain wear on the 1x system as you will ride with a much more angled chain pull when in the lighter(est) gears. And this adds noise too. Not a biggy, but worth a thought. Apart from that, for beginners and non-wrenchers, 1x will serve you well everywhere
As Mr Quindazzi says the most important 1x problem is that you have to commit to a single chainring. If you go too extreme you will end up lacking. 34T will allow you to be almost in an MBT but you will not be able to race to much, and 46T might give you enough speed but you will have to be very strong to be able to climb a lot, even on a 10-36T cassette. The bottom line is that on gravel you might go 2x to have some "good for everything" bike or go 1x a commit a little more on what are you going to mostly do with your bike, road or climbs....
I use a 11-50 Sram casette with a 42T narrow-wide chainring. But there are 10-52 casettes for even more range. I don't think, range would really be a limiting factor on a 1x system.
@@peterkiss1204 Yeah, 10-52 (which I think is the max range right now) Gives you range but you still have to commit on the chainring. You either go for a roadish 46 or higher, or go MBTish for a 40 or lower. It looks that those 10-52 will give you everyhitng but there will be climbs too steep for a 52 (C) to 46(CR) or descending roads where your 10 - 36 will not be enough. It´s important to make sure of what are you going to do the most and prepare for that, while making sure that you know what you are missing.
@@azathell As I see you really don't need anything too much below 1/1 gear ratio. It already is almost as easy as walking. I rode a 48T chainring with a 9 speed 11-36 Shimano casette before changed to 12 speed. The 11/48 gear ratio was plenty enough for me, and would be probably for most cyclists. The only reason I changed to 42T is because the 12 speed system required a narrow-wide chainring, and I couldn't find a bigger one that fits my frame and crank set.
I have switched back to 2x for practical and performance considerations. Let me set up the reasons. 1. I live in a hilly part of SoCal. 2. The guys I ride with believe there is an invisible KOM banner at the top of every climb. 3. I ride the pavement to the trailhead. This includes invisible sprint and KOM points as well. The practical reasons: 1. I run a 38/22 in the front and 10/36 in the rear. I use the same cassette and chain for my road bike. 2. Chain and cassette wear is less due to the extreme angles of the lower gears used under pressure off-road. 3. Less chainring wear. I use the small ring a majority of the time off-road. (Climbing ride time vs. desending ride time.) The small ring is steel and inexpensive. 4. It is quiet. The performance reasons: 1. The gaps between gears while climbing steep sections. I can find the goldilocks gear while my buddies struggle (and who does not enjoy watching their friends struggle!). The smaller gaps in the rear combined with the 22t inner ring always work out better. 2. There is no #2 Now, I can honestly understand the benefits of the 1x system for the manufacturer and the consumer. For the manufacturer: 1. Less SKUs. No shifter, derailleur, inner ring, and bolts. 2. Market the simplicity of operation and maintenance of the 1x system (while charging the same price for fewer parts). 😉 3. Easier frame design. 4. One less cable to route. For the consumer: 1. Ease of operation. I agree that having one shift control vs. two is easier. I just do not see it as a huge problem to anyone besides a true novice. 2. Ease of maintenance. Agreed. I do a wheels off clean/inspection nearly every ride, and the area around the front derailleur is a pain to clean. 3. One less thing to adjust. Agreed, but once set, the front derailleur does not need to be adjusted. This may be another novice issue. 4. Aesthetics. Less bar clutter, less cabling, cleaner bottom bracket area. The only ugly part is that huge cassette thing and massive rear derailleur. 5. Chain drop and mud clearance. I have yet to drop a chain, and if mud is not an issue in SoCal. I know we test our gravel bikes with the terrain, but if you are having these issues, maybe you need to rethink your bike choice. Now, do I think there is a place for 1x. Of course. 1x is great if you are riding at a leisurely pace. It excels in the non racing MTB world, where climbing considerations take a back seat to suspension. Yes, I know the pros ride 1x. They ride the equipment provided and can also put down multiple times the watts compared to us mortals. For city/leisure bikes, it is the best as these bikes are ridden by novices. The simplicity of one shifter to someone intimidated by the thought of gears is a godsend. Thank you for entertaining my rant.
2x all the way, i have 1x mtb, 1x fatbike, 2x road bike, and recently purchased 2x gravel bike, and I'm convinced in a good choice. 1x drivetrain isn't good enough on the tarmac, if the relief is flat and hills, you have to play or shift several cogs to be ok, but on the 2x you just switch from big chairing to the small, and thats all. Another big issu with 1x is the high speed on the tarmac, 40x11 isn't enough for moderate cadence And of course, any cycliste must have some knowledge how 2x chainring works and how to adjust front derailleur, i mean trim position or fully engaged to avoid the chain and derailleur contact
Just found your site and it’s great! I’m also an engineer so I really appreciate the details. I did similar analysis on 1x a couple of years ago. I changed my 3 mountain bikes to 1x. Best move ever. My girlfriend is a novice rider and struggled with 2x. She was always cross chaining and confused, especially in the woods. Now that she’s on 1x, she’s significantly improved because she doesn’t think about shifting. I strongly recommend 1x for anyone new to mt biking because of the simplicity. Keep the good videos coming!
Started out on a 1x mountain bike and always felt like I didn't have enough top end speed. Went 2x (50/34) on my gravel bike with an 11-40 cassette and I finally found an almost perfect system for climbing up and sprinting on flats and descents.
What speed is your drive train? I am so torn on trying a 1x or wether or not to replace my worn 2x9 with what I have. The cost will be pretty much the same but losing top and bottom gears scares me.
Depends on your needs. I have a Tern Verge X11. It has a 52 chainring on the front and a 10--42 on the back with 451mm wheels. And there's no hill I haven't been able to get up. And it is plenty fast on the 10 to 52. What people forget. Is having a bigger gear ratio at the top means little if you cannot get a good cadence. And I have experimented with a 56 tooth front chainring and actually went slower than the 52.
As someone who has/had 1x,2x and 3x both in MTB and road bikes, allow me to share my personal opinion on the matter: 1x is way cooler looking and offers a clean cockpit. But the range will be more "specialized" for lack of a better term; meaning you either choose high range for speed or low range for climbing, but not both in the same ride (depending on the size of the installed single chainring in the front) 2x and 3x might look a bit uglier yes, but in terms of functionality, range, as well as jumps between gears, there is no beating them! That's why my adventure machine (a Hardtail) is still a 3x10 to this day. I mostly only use 2 of the rings upfront , but just having the option to switch to the tiny third ring in the front has saved my ass many times where a hill is too steep. Meanwhile the largest chainring (40 tooth) allow me to go downhill to almost 55 Kmh before I start spinning out (I don't like spinning fast, more of a grinder, so my cadence is probably lower than average). In short. I don't like 1x as much as a 2x or a 3x, regardless of the kind of bike, even Mountainbikes, which is why I got rid of my 1x SRAM eagle XC bike and got a 2x instead.
I recently decided to refurbish my old bike and think about modernizing the drivetrain. I had my last bike 25 years ago so it's been a while and so much has changed since. Nice to see this video. Saved me some time and an Excel spreadsheet;)
Great video! I had this very debate when I was deciding which gravel bike to buy. I have increasingly favored 1x drivetrains on my bikes over the last few years. I find 1x stems better suited for off-road riding or casual street riding. The larger jumps are more noticeable and less desirable when you are going faster and trying to find that optimal cadence as you mentioned in your video. It looks like Shimano tried to eliminate that as much as possible and, like you, I am second guessing my decision to go 2x on my gravel bike. I definitely should have studied gear ratios a bit more to better understand how my ride would have been impacted by the ratio gaps. My logic was oversimplified in that I decided that 1x11 would not yield appropriate ratio gaps and that I would need at least a 1x12 to achieve a more appropriate progression of ratios. Perhaps that is somewhat accurate, but after looking at how Shimano does it, I think I would have been just fine because regardless of whether you go 11-40, 11-42, or 11-46, all three have the same progression of 11-13-15-17-19-21-24. Then, along comes Campy with their new Ekar 1x13 gravel groupset. Have you seen it? They offer 3 different cassette options: 9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-20-23-27-31-36 9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-21-25-30-36-42 10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-26-32-39-44 Looks like they are taking what Shimano does to the next level with packing the top end of the cassette with very tightly spaced gears. Had I gone with a 1x gravel bike, it more than likely would have been equipped with SRAM Apex 1: 11-13-15-17-19-22-25-28-32-36-42 They start ramping up the progression one cog earlier than Shimano with a larger jump from 19-22. My Specialized Diverge has a Shimano 11-34 configured as such: 11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34 The 48T big ring on my bikes does have me favoring the 17-19-21-23-27 cogs most which are all 2 tooth ratio gaps. Had I gone 1x SRAM with a 42T ring, I would be favoring the 15-17-19-22-25 cogs. My ratios would be very close to the same with the 1x setup except for when I was on the 22 and 25 where the gaps spread just a tad. Not likely a big deal. Sorry this is so long of a comment, but one last thing. After getting my Diverge, I ended up building a super budget gravel bike that I intend to actually ride on the local mountain bike trails. I have it setup with 650B x 47 tubeless tires and a 1x8, 38T ring with an 11-40 cassette. Those are some big jumps (11-13-16-20-24-28-34-40)! The little bit I have ridden it on trails does seem to validate my initial impression that 1x is better suited for slower riding. It is insanely fun and I can't wait to try it out with the recently installed dropper post! Thanks for hopefully reading this and I look forward to more content like this if you decide to make it.
Hey man, excellent reply and observations! Thx for checking it out. Lot to unpack here, but basically, yes I’ve found that there’s more to it than just disregarding 1x bc the jumps will be presumed to large. On a side note, saw your 650B setup on the diverge. Something I want to explore soon! Looking forward unto your ride review on 650B.
Yup, I been a roadie for over 10 years. Just recently jumped to a gravel bike & hard tail MTB. Gear gaps are just insane, for a roadie...its taking time to get use to it
I run a 3x9 and all the gear gaps are super close. I also have a roadie with a 2x10. I wouldn’t mind a wide range 1x9 or 1x10 since I am constantly double or triple tapping my rear derailleur on road drivetrains. In a 1x operation is really simple and every gear is uniquely useful.
Thats right 9 SPEEDS RULE for me. Too much whining over gear jumps. SERIOUSLY your legs don't care. They only know is it too hard or not hard enough. 9,10,11,13,15,17,20,23,26 45 on the front. Absolute perfection. No hill I cannot climb. And I can break 25mph on the flat. And for a 20 inch wheel folder and a 59 year old rider. That's all I need.
Just went back to a 2x system on my second mtb...first to address the chainline issues of the 1x system. Then the gear ratios. Good that I stayed with my 2x on my first mtb.
many thanks for this! for me 1x set up if you are doing bikepacking, recreational rides which is enough...2x if you gravel race and definitely road cycling..
Wow, this is just what I've been looking for (you obviously have some kind of analytical background--good work). I have a 1 x 8 hybrid with a typical 11-34 cassette and a 38T chain ring on 27.5" wheels. I rarely use my 8th gear, but I do wish I had a little bit more gear climbing ability. So I bought a 36T chain ring hoping that will help (haven't tried it yet--waiting for the snow to melt :-). If a 36T ring is still inadequate, then I'll try a 34T one. However, I will never go back to a 2x or 3x configuration. Thanks again for your video.
Thanks for the video and sharing your thought’s I went with 2x GRX 810 31/48 up front and XT 11/42 in the rear, for just about anywhere you want to go.
You missed a few points. The longer derailleur cage especially on the largest range cassettes, will project down further, and therefore more in harms way for debris. Also the longer cage means adjustment for proper operation is more sensitive, and easier for the 1X system to fall out of adjustment or failure to be properly adjusted. Next there is greater wear on the single front cog, where wear can be spread on the 2X system, or potentially reduced due to potentially having better chainlines. Lastly if you damage the front chainring while riding on the 1X, you are going reliant on that chainring that may or may not have some functionality. While with the 2X setup, you are likely have a backup chainring built in. What you present if fine, but it neglects failure analysis, and on long and/or multiday rides, or remote areas, these considerations are extremely important.
MTB person here and this video was hugely helpful for me as well. I was quite literally thinking about doing some Matlab coding myself to quantity the difference between 1x, 2x & 3x MTBs too so I'm glad I stumbled upon your video doing the exact same. Definitely worth geeking out to some gear ratios
Best gear ratio video ever. Change chain ring will jump a few gears, this can be annoying at times. Yes, experience with your bike will minimise the pause effect but still not as intuitive compared to 1 by - "not quite the gear I wanted, try the next one". For people new to cycling, this ease of use characteristic of 1 by is a bonus.
After I had my old mountainbike serviced, I noticed that while speeding up with the front on the smaller wheel, it didn't grab the chain and I almost died on a road, because I couldn't get my bike going. Ever since I used the big blade on the front and learnt to change only the back gear. Now I'm looking for a new bike and I want to buy a gravelbike as under the circumstances where I drive here in Thailand (rough and smooth roads, sand, and gravel on the road) I found a lot information about anything related to gravelbikes (and mountainbikes). And given the experience I had and your video, the choice is easy: I go for the 1x drivetrain. Last sunday I was in a shop which only had mountainbikes or racebikes, the seller was showing the 1x drivetrain bikes as the latest innovation. I thought it was ridiculous, but now I learnt that this is really what I want. Thanks for helping me decide!
Nice! There is something people forget to think about. Tarmac roads are designed for vehicle that will keep around 88mph so they spend a lot of money modifying the terrain to not have abrupt changes on the slope cause it could make the cars at 88mph to jump over the hills. Gravel roads are design to velocities close to 20mph, so you can save some money and allow fast changing in the slope. For road bikers, riding in automotive tarmac road, it means very small changing on the slope during a long ride, so small gaps are more important. For MTB rides, the changes in slope of the terrain are usually huge, so you frequently change 2 or 3 gear at the some time, so bigger step will not make much difference. For Gravel, if you stick only to gravel roads and singles tracks, the 1x MTB transmission steps is just fine. The 2x on a Gravel bike will make more sense when you are using the bike to travel, cause sometimes you will need small gaps to ride long tarmac roads and sometimes you will need the small chain ring to climb a single track.
I use my gravel bike as a gravel, touring, all-around bike. I have had the luxury of running Shimano Grx in 1X and 2X in a touring and every day situations from roads to gravel and fully loaded touring. I have also had the luxury of pushing the limits with goat links and the like. I'm two going on three years into trying this on bikes. I started with 1X and switched to 2X mostly thinking I was missing out on something. This I know. I like close gear ratios but I hate the maintenance and potential problems of 2X. I LOVE the simplicity of the 1X and really might prefer it due to the simplicity and the realization that you have what you have. The best of both worlds may be having a crank that can accept 1X AND 2X.
I prefer my setup with 2x GRX DI2 with a 48/31 crankset paired with a SRAM 11-36 cassette. I can climb any hill on a gravel ride or swap wheels or tires and go fast on a road group ride. Another neat trick with 2x DI2 GRX is the Synchro shift feature which will automatically shift the front derailleur when you shift the rear so it essentially acts like a 1x.
Thanks for geeking out and making this video. I found it very informative. I like the 1x systems for their simplicity. Also I go back to the many times that the chain was rubbing on the front derailleur and driving me nuts. Yeah, it was out of adjustment, but now no worries about that.
At least on a 2X you can tune your derailleur to get rid of the rub. What i do not like about my 1X is when my chain is on the top gear, a part of it rubs on the second highest gear because of the angle. Also the sound that the chain makes on the chainring when i am at the lowest gear which is again caused by the angle. Both indicate additional friction that could be avoided on a 2X setup if you choose your gears adequately.
Ok, you may have done the impossible: you made a video about gear ratios REALLY REALLY interesting! Besides all the diligence in getting your data together, you presented it all in a way that "us common weekend warriors" can understand and appreciate. I went 1X for my gravel, and while I went kinda cheap on the frame, the components are (for me) pretty snazzy with the SRAM Rival etap system. And while I thought wireless was probably wasted on a rider like me, I LOVE IT. Keep up the good work!
LOL! "Did I totally geek out and write some Matlab code to sort out gear ratios for gravel bikes? Yes. Yes, I did." Bruce Wayne to Lucius Fox, when Fox opens the garage door to reveal 'The Bat:' "Oh, now you're just showing off!" *
This is next level stuff. But the next next level would be downloading your Strava gpx data and parsing your distribution of speeds and plotting that over your gear ratio plots. You'd want the area with the smallest ratio jumps to coincide with your most common speeds. Next next next level is parsing your power data and generating a bivariate distribution of speeds and power versus time to correlate to hear ratios. You'd have to preprocess to drop the zeroes, like when you're not pedaling and have zero power.
Finally a mathmatical geometric on the gearing of 1 by vs 2 by. I just ordered my Sram 1 by and have been searching the internet for fear that I may be missing the smaller gaps in the larger gears, and thankfuly you address the answer. I'll be fine! Great job!
Extensive mathematical analysis. I think you missed 2 things: 1x have more frictional losses, and the actual reduction in range is significant in that you'll end up short on one end or the other- that is especially important for older and heavier riders on the low end. I really don't think jumps between gears is all that important. 2x with 11-40 Cassette is the best all around solution. Good video
Now we have 12 speed, smaller jump. I compared a 2x GRX with my sram mullet on an online gear calculator. 2 x11 actually only has around 15 speeds. And the jump between ratios on the 2X is inconsistent. With the 1 x there are 12 speeds and the gear jumps are consistent. There are portions of the 2x where the jump is the same as 1 x. And some of those fine jumps mean going back and forth on the front chainring. The point is, 1x offers many advantages, so the gear jump must really be important to you to not want to go 1x. Even then I don’t know if there is a big gear jump advantage.
when I bought my first dropbar bike last year, i went for a 1by gravel bike. GRX with 40t in front and 11-42 in the back. this spring I got a new wheel set for road and now im mainly driving on tarmac. I watched your videos about converting the grx to fit a 11-46 cassette. the plan is to go with a 46t chainring a with the 11-46 cassette. then I have the same jumps as in my 11-42 cassette. only the last jump is bigger. but here in northern Germany its really flat so its only an emergency gear and should be fine. the 2t jumps are still to big sometimes but should be fine for now.
Great video! There are a few other points I'd throw into the mix. Firstly, 1x makes it easy to change your overall gearing, simply by swapping the chainring. Secondly, in the graphs of 2x great options, I'd ignore the 4 gears with the worst cross-chaining, making the number of unique gears even less. Thirdly, it's probably worth acknowledging that the extreme gears on a 1x have worse chainline than any sane 2x ratios, which might be a consideration. Fourthly, another pro for 1x is that the chain is much less likely to be unshipped. And finally (!) It would be interesting to see some of your graphs comparing more modern groupsets, like SRAM AXS Wide Vs Campag Ekar. You know you want to!!!
@@TheBikeSauce late to the party. great video. Agree with Richard. Be interesting to add the 1x ratios to you chart @ 8:45, and highlight the cross chain ratios on the 2x Richard describes. Great stuff!
l have both systems on my bikes even 3x on my old MTB and they all have their purpose . 1x for daily use is a great all rounder 2x for my road bike provides wider ratio of gears for max performance abilities !! AND 3x can Either provide more variety of gears for smaller cassettes like 7spd old skool or providing more ratios in a lower ranges 8-11spd or even providing lower gear ratios for basic cassettes like 11-28 or 11-32
Better to look at Gear Inches as that takes account of positive impact of running larger tyres on same wheel diameter you talk about on 1x a small gain but still it is there. Or even Sheldon Browns Gain Ratios which is dimesionless and not only takes account of any varistion in overall wheel diameter including the tyre but also the crank length amazingly. 😊
Geek out to the next level… 1x 50t 10-44 on a gravel ebike. Lol. What I am trying to work out is role of e power to make up for needing to change gears. I am also trying to understand the concern of changing gears on a mid drive ebike. It’s a whole other dimension.
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I recently switched from a Trekking/Touring bike with a 3x system, a 2x allowed me to do an easy tradition. Regarding the use of more of the gears in the 2x system: depending on the terrain that you drive on you can make more of the gears that you go on I think. I noticed when cycling in snow and mud that more finer gear ratios help me to cycle faster while still having easy control over my bike when a to high gear would be simple to much maintain speed in.
In my opinion, 1x drive trains are just another attempt to sell the customer something new. In the real world, they seldom offer any actual benefit, except being cheaper when used on city bikes that literally need no particularly high or low gearing, or on bikes that are highly specialized towards on particular activity that either only needs low gears or only high gears. 1) Simpler - yes, but honestly, what active driver struggles to use a 2x or 3x? Correct, nobody. And due to the extreme chain lines of a 1x, parts will wear much more quickly, bringing more maintenance and cost in the long run than any 2x or 3x. 2) Lighter - yes, but A: a few hundret grams are absolutely inconsequential if you are not happen to ride at the Tour de France. It's literally like having your keys in your pocket or not. And B: whatever gains you'll have in terms of weight, you will loose tenfold in efficiency (again, because of the extreme chainline in certain gears) 3) Tire width - errrr, MTBs used 2x and 3x systems for ages now and they nevere had an issue with tire width. Another downside of a 1x, which is often ignored, is the fact, that you HAVE to step through ALL THE GEARS when accelerating from slow speeds. People often say, that on a 2x or 3x all they did was shifting a lot. I feel the exact opposite. Even just with the 10 gears I have now, on curvy and mountainous terrain I am constantly shifting six, seven, eight, nine, times and then down again for the next switchback, resulting into 18 times clickediclack, wheras on a 2x I would have covered the same distance with literally half the shifts or less. Add to that the "hunting for the right gear" issue, and you are approaching some essential questions. By the way, the notion that 2x or 3x offer duplicated gears isn't exactly true either. Even on my 3 x 10 flatbar gravel bike, there literally is not one gear on there that has the same ration as the others. Some are very close, but due to the different chainlines and slight differences in ratio, they do indeed feel different. As they say: It's always better to have, than to need. We live in a somewhat mountainous area, and I need my gears to be low AND high. In the case of my transmission, it does neither, on an MTB, it will do low, but not high, and on a road bike it will do high, but not now. A 1x literally will not do that for you. Not even a current top range 1x12 by Sram or Shimano. And no, the upcoming 1x13 won't solve that problem either, they will make it worse by bringing even more absurd chainlines and overly long derailleurs, that are just waiting to be hit by a rock. Since especially gravel bikes need to go both fast on the flat and have low enough gearing to tackle serious uphill climbs, it's abolutely beyond me why so many manufacturers tend to put 1x transmissions on them. It really is a step backwards and one of the reasons why most Gravel bike buyers do buy the bike they want, but not the bike they need. An exception might be the flat bar gravel bike, which often has a 2x or 3x transmission and a suspension fork. THAT makes sense. But it's not new. It used to be called Cross Bike and was cool 10 years ago. They literally wrapped it in a new Gravel Bike package and sell it to you as the new thing. It is one of the better bike concepts though, so I am glad it's still around.
Great analysis! So, it has more to do with gear total range rather than the gaps between the cogs. 2x grx has a wider range than 1x. So, if you need to climb hills and go fast at the same time, go 2x, if don’t, go 1x that is much simpler.
It's worth remembering for people that live in lumpy countries like Scotland you are nearly always going up or down hills so it's nice having down hill gears and uphill gears and the fine gears are nice to have the most nice gear for a particular slope
A year later, and the Campagnolo Ekar group set offers 13 cogs for a 1x system, which pretty much means you can have your cake and eat it too. Depending on which cassette you choose, you can effectively match both the range and the spacing between gears to that of a typical road bike with compact 2x cranks. Of course, you can instead choose to trade a wider spacing for increased range.
Up until very recently, i completely avoided 1x bikes, as it seemed like a poor choice for range and efficiency, but now that i keep seeing actual data about it, doesn't seem like a bad deal. Now i have this exact 46-30 and 11-34 on my bike, but having a 40T chainring paired with an 11-46 would be pretty similar in climbing gears, and only slightly slower in the faster gears (something i'd probably not miss much).
2x has also better weight distribution(more of the weight is in the center), with better efficiency and longevity due to the straighter chainline(if you use it correctly).
The debate always revolves around keeping the big gears(100+ inches) well what if you're not bothered about peddling at 25 mph+. Simple you find an after market 34 tooth front ring and run a 11-34 cassette and benefit from small jumps and even lower weight :) just like i have, i hardly ever use the 11 even now.
May be a bad exapmle, but I had only department store bikes in my childhood and last one had that heavy and stupid 3x system, which never felt right - as I was smaller, I just couldn`t make it work, so ended up using middle ring. As I grew taller and heavier I clearly felt, that even the biggest ring on front is not enough for me. While my student years I didn`t really had a chance to ride or even to have a bike, but now I have my gravel 1x bike and I absolutely love it! I`m not riding in big groups to keep up with certain speed or top or bottom gears, so they are not effective - it`s just that good for me - no stupid front deraulier, no need to think about chain angle and in previous season not even once I had my chain dropped or rubbing. Oh, and mtb casette looks awesome as well)
A 1X system generally isn't actually lighter, because the rear cassette needs to be so much bigger. For a RX600 group the 2x cassette weighs 250g, the 1x weighs 411. That difference offsets the front derailleur and cables. So in the end we are talking about differences of 20g or so. unless you are doing tour de france you wont notice 20g, but if you really do, then just take 2cl less water with you. That cassette can sometimes even be so heavy that you can feel the inertia, either as chain slap when you stop pedaling, or in the momentum of the pedals (if you rear derailleur has a clutch that is) Also even if the jumps between the gears are the same I don't think you arrive to the correct conclusion. The jump may be the same, but the cadence vs speed will benefit with the 2x. Lets say you are at a cadence of 75 rpm with 700c wheels. On a 1x on the second highest gear (13t ) with a 40 tooth front chainring you are doing a comfortable 30.4km/h. If you go one gear up, the same cadence is 36km/h. On a 2x the at the same rpm and the closest speed would be the 17 tooth rear with 50tooth front. Then you'd be doing 29.1 km/h, if you go up one gear then you'd be doing 33km/h. If we adjust the cadence of the 2x setup to match the speed of the 1x (by going up to a cadence of 78) the difference is 30.4kmh vs 34.4 km/h So going from 30.4kmh to 34.4 is hardly the same as 30.4 to 36.0, in fact the step is 40% bigger with the 1x compared to the 2x. With a 46T front on the 2x that bring the difference down to 20% smaller gap than 1x. The difference in how you experience it is, at least to me, quite big. On top of that you can spec your bike with a 12-32 tooth cassette on the 2x and get much smaller steps ( 11-12-13-14-... tooth instead of 11-13-15-17 etc on the top end), at the sacrifice of a little range. The same option does not exist for the 1x system. To me it all comes down to versatility. I want my gravel bike to be the one bike to do it all. Be it fully loaded as a bike packing bike , a fast and nimble cross country in the woods or on the roads, with or without a lot of headwind, sidewind or downwind. With a 1x drivetrain you loose a lot of that versatility, and the whole point of the gravel bike, imo, disappears.
A 1x groupset does exist with small steps for the higher gears for optimum cadence. 13 speed Campagnolo Ekar rear cassettes have single sprocket differences for all cassettes like. (10-11-12-13-14-15-17-20-23-27-32-38-44) for 10t-44t cassette and 9-36t cassette goes like this (9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-20-23-27-31-36). Regarding weight of the rear cassette, a 11 speed sram x01 10-42t cassette weighs 268g that works with 1x gravel groupsets.
Outstanding effort, research, and thoughtful/well-spoken delivery. I just ordered everything to convert the ole gravel machine to 1x11. Also, thanks for getting to the point and NOT making us fast-forward through 5 minutes of "what's up guys, bla-bla-bla, thoughtless nonsense.... pretty-please like and subscribe"
Here are a few more things to add to the conversation: 1. A 1x is suitable for hard core mtbing but not much else. And if you're doing any kind of distance you should use a 2x because as this video points out a 1x has bigger jumps or higher average gear step percentage. However even having a lower gear step percentage can be a benefit in the trails. 2. You get smoother shifting with a 2x due to the smaller ramp ups. 3. People think 1x is lighter but don't consider the difference in weight between the cassettes. 4. A 2x has better efficiency through tighter ratios but doesn't have the low range of a 1x. This is why more people in the end choose 1x. The main reason for this is because after moving away from square taper bottom brackets and 2x or 3x systems with small BCDs the industry has steered us into choosing between low end or optimal cadence. They also push race results/top end and going fast but the fact of the matter is that the majority of us really need more mid to low end range. So when you go to buy a new bike your kind of stuck unless you are willing to go back a bit and consider what I have found to be the ultimate 2x crank: the double BCD 64/96 four bolt. These can be found for very little money and come in a few different bottom bracket types. The advantages to this crank is that you can run as low as a 22t front ring as well as find ring options all way from 22t to 42t in two teeth increments and the rings are very inexpensive. I've built a number of budget bikes with true overall capability in mind. They vary in type but all use that four bolt crank. It's usually something like an 11/34 cassette and a 22/38 front. (I've ran as high as a 42t front with the 22t and it shifts just fine). This is have your cake and eat it too as you have low average gear steps, stump pulling low end and however much high end you want. I usually choose my front big ring based on how much of the cassette it will allow me to use (another thing to consider but again on a modern 2x you don't have much for options) On one of my bikes I dropped from a 42t down to a 38t because I was in my first 3-4 gears all the time. Now I use more of the cassette. I may have lost some top end but rarely do I need that ability. Food for thought!
Thanks for the video. I like your approach a lot. As you said, what really matters in gaps lies in high speed gears. Big jumps in low gears usually don’t matter. Still, I think that 1x system needs one more cog than 2x drivetrain for ‘bailout.’ Adding 50t to 11-42t and using 50t chainring would feel much like 50/34t + 11-34t. I really hope that Shimano comes with 12s for 1x. Furthermore, one more benefit of 1x you didn’t mention is, I think, the versatility in choosing chainrings. Of course, you can change chainrings in 2x but it is a lot of hassle to adjust a front derailleur every time, and choices are limited. If I am willing to change chains, I can go with 50t for a fast road riding and 34t for a stiff mountain climbing. Or you can delve into some good combinations of cassette and chainring that suits your riding capacity.
i tried already both and the main reasons to go for 2x are for me, that you kind of have a hybrid way of driving (you can go fast and do roadbike trips - mostly using the big ring; or go on MTB trails and mostly use the small ring. The second main reason for me ist, that i just dont like the chaincrossing noise and feel on a 1x. It doesnt feel good and it also seems (in my mind) to constantly wearing out my chain and the casette. And if im going uphill a really steep climb, having that feeling and noise in mind ist just not that comfortable for my driving "feel" - if you can say it like that (sorry for my english, i'm german ;D)
@@TheBikeSauce how efficient is the chainline of a 2X compared to a somewhat equivalent 1X? I saw one test from Velonews by CeramicSpeed which shows that a 2X system only has an average of 3 watt advantage over a 1X for a 250 watt input; the 1X had 12.24 watts of frictional loss while the 2X had 9.45 watts of frictional loss. Looking at percentages, the 1X has on average 29.5% more frictional losses than a 2X, but the absolute difference is just 3 watts for a 250 watt input. What i did not like about the test is that they tested drivetrains from 2 different brands instead of testing a 1X vs 2X from the same groupset of the same manufacturer. Plus the chain in their test is quite clean, i wish they also done a test using a "dirty" chain that has been used for a few km on gravel before being used in the test rig. It would be epic if you could perform some sort of test using an indoor trainer and a crank power meter as channel content.
@@Massproduce201 as per CeramicSpeed testing, 1X system has on average 29.5% more frictional losses than a 2X , but if you look at the absolute numbers it is a difference of 3 watts of frictional loss for an input of 250 watts.
To answer your questions at the end: Yes, yes and yes. Thank you! It was to the point and well put; seems like after all I really needed to see some plots to understand the whole gravel business.
One thing to add or ask (from comments I read from other folks elsewhere which made some sense) regarding the advantages of 2x system, on sudden steep sections 2x gives you that option of switching to larger ring instantly, whereas in 1x you have adjust gear by gear to reach the optimum cadence. Is this true? Does it actually come handy i.e. change down the chainring quickly with 2x?
In my experience, I never need to suddenly drop an entire chainring due to a sudden incline. I understand the argument, but a little bit of experience and you’ll know when to shift based on the upcoming ascent or descent. I definitely don’t think it’s the main reason for wanting to go 2x.
Fantastic video! Thank you so very much for all of that information. I have been wanting to make the shift into 1x for a while, this answered all my questions.
No big deal chains are relatively cheap. People gripe over nonsense. Oh I had to buy a chain for £20 3 months sooner on my 1 by set up than on my 2 by set up. REALLY...
Thank you! This makes me feel better about my 1x choice. Deore 1x 10 speed 11-46 cassette with 40t crank. I live in the Ozark Highlands about an hour NE of Bentonville, AR in Missouri. It’s quite hilly here!
I just got a bike with a 1x (Surly Ghost Grappler) and that was my main concern. It's my first 1x bike and I thought that would be some sacrifice. But what I found is the top gear goes faster than I can ever actually maintain unless I'm going downhill anyway. To me the only time that speed would matter is in a race, which I'm not doing. On the low end it can't go much lower anyway because that front chainring is pretty small. Maybe I could go a bit smaller, I'm not sure. I was also skeptical about shifting, as it seemed like it would have those problems you mentioned with e.g. using the large chainring on the large cogs. And I've had bikes that just plain (with age) don't shift reliably in the largest or smallest cogs. I don't know what magic allows that to work well but it does, at least so far. If it continues to work well I don't see any reason, for me, to ever use a 2x again. I love having fewer parts! But again I'm no racer.
Coming from a 3BY, I didn't want to take a chance with 1BY. It's not like for the same price model, you have both options. The Aluminium version with 11 gears in the back came with a 1BY only. With the $800 price difference, I could have had the Aluminium frame at 1 lb heavier with carbon wheels at 2 lbs lighter. Aluminium would have given me so much room to add clamping accessories, bike stand, ease of packing. But, I am happy with the carbon frame bike. You nailed it about max speed limitation to 25 Vs 29. I wanted my diverge to be more like road bike... so I went with 2BY and stiffest spring.. once I have a 32mm tire, it's even closer to Roubaix. The larger front chain rings of Roubaix would have made it harder for me to climb anyways. I wish bike companies provide such customisation options.
thanks for this, have a grx 1x11 set up and was contemplating to go 2x for the jumps, your mathematical prowess made me appreciate what i have, cheers and ride safe
I tried 1x, 3x and currently 2x. I really miss my 3x system. Worst was 1x system. The chains tend to drop more and had to tune more and shifting felt draggy.
When figuring potential weight savings for a 1-by system you do need to consider the weight of the different cassettes. It seems possible some or all of the weight saved up front could be matched by more in those huge cassette cogs. But as you say, simplicity matters a lot. For an old (74) roadie like me (riding good road bikes for 45 years), small steps between gears and the ability to match my (high) cadence are important. But as I contemplate my next bike, an e-gravel bike, 1 -by will have to be the future. Your program made simple the sort of manual calculations we made years ago when designing our ratios. There were many fewer options then (this was even before mountain bikes). We are spoiled for choice now days! Love it, and love your channel. Cheers, Tom
Thanks, Tom! Coincidentally, I recently swapped my GRX 2x setup for a 1x setup. Weight savings was a total wash! You’re right, the heavier cassette completely cancelled the savings gained by removing components. An e-gravel bike ought to be loads of fun, and yes we certainly are spoiled by choice in 2021. Important to remember that the equipment is just a tool to facilitate the adventure! Thanks for watching!
Campy Ekar 1x13 sp does a really good job of tight spacing where it matters most. I'm still stuck in on 11sp with an e*13 9-46 because there is no 12 sp cassette available that would tighten up the spacing where I like. My 11sp is almost perfect for gravel, but could use 1 or 2 more single tooth jumps for the fast gears. A 9-46 13sp cassette with single tooth jumps for the top 4-5 gears would be perfect for me. Ekar is getting close with the 10-44, but we're not quite there yet imo. Great video on a timeless topic!
It would have been cool to see you change the front chainring size on the 1x and see where the points fall on the graph. Im really interested in pushing the front chainring size up to be able to hang on rides with road bikers.
Thank you, that was such a good explanation of both system's ratios. I am definitely in the roadie -> gravel camp and ultimately went with 2x simply because my do-it-all gravel machine does spend a good amount of time on asphalt. However, I'm less hesitant now to consider a 1x conversion for more dedicated gravel time or events. I'd be interested in that shifting discussion next. To run 2x, being comfortable with double-shifts is definitely a thing, though certainly made easier if one is fortunate enough to afford Di2 and run it in its automated mode.
Hey Sauce, thanks for the detailed breakdown. IDK, maybe because I’m 215lbs +/-, I’d rather see the incremental jumps on the climbs. Anyway have you noticed the same trend in 2023, as you did when you made this video? Meaning is the trend still Incremental jumps in the faster gears? I’m really liking your vids, new and old(er). Take care
Also, if you are not a competitive cyclist (as in competing in events), the bigger jumps in the larger cogs when you are climbing as a less fit athelete don't matter much. I like how you pointed out that the first 6 cogs spacing is the same. What a competitive cyclist loses is pushing the pace at 29mph or more. If you can push 26mph or more, then the 2x will be better. Often times when I had the 2x even offroad during a small downhill, you would switch to the big ring only to get hammered when you hit a short steep section, wanting to go small ring again quickly. This made the 2x system a hinderance. But I imagined that ex-roadies would rather have the big ring to ride home on the road. Again, if you never crank 29mph or have long downhills, you may never need the big ring like you think. That's why 1x makes so much sense on mountain bikes.
hello i have 40t chainring and 11-42 cassete as mentioned. For me it performs really great. But my previous bike had 3x7 acera. So big uprgrade for me 😁
I prefer 2x since I ride my gravel bike on the road before hitting the trails. I generally have a rule of staying in the big cog when road riding and utilize most the gear range. Also if road climbs go steep I can ride out of saddle (OOS) for additional leverage. Once I go off-road, I go small and switch to high cadence spinning for traction control. Honestly I don't really see the 2x drivetrain as overlapping, since I ride each chainring differently. 😉
Good Vid. I am building a Surly Midnight special with GRX Di2. I started as a 2x build. Bought GRX 600 2x crankset 46-30 as I wanted 165mm and 800 series shortest was 170mm. But before buying the front derailleur I decided I might try 1x . 42t Chainring was about $80 AUD and sunrace 11 40 cassette because black! Good news is 1x GRX chainring bolts directly to 2x Crankset using standard bolts. Beware bolts are super tight. I will try 1x and see how i go , my main concern is finding the right cadence at higher power on flat roads. This vid now informs me I may not need to worry. Will go back to 2x if I dont like the 1x. weight does not seem to be too dfferent as a 1x cassette is around 120g heavier than 11-32 and front deralieur is about 120g. Chainring weight is about 70g saved so 1x is maybe 70-100g lighter. Thanks for the good info
Nice! Great bike. I’ve been riding both GRX 1x and 2x recently and I can say I notice the 1x limitation mostly on steep climbs and cruising along up mild grades where sometimes it’s hard to find the right gear. I usually stop pedaling above 25mph so the upper limit isn’t too big an issue for me. Have fun with your build!
@@TheBikeSauce interesting to read this after watching your video. Doesn’t this go against everything you’ve highlighted in the video? I’m only curious as I’m currently trying to decide whether to go 1x or 2x. After watching the video I was going 1x but after reading your comment, I’m now so sure?
This is super helpful. I agree your analysis but come to a different conclusion. I would argue that, rather than the jumps between gears, the high and low end ratios are determinative, especially if you ride in areas with steep hills like Griffith Park in LA. I've had hip surgery and knee issues, so the added ease of a .9 climbing ratio makes the difference between being able to climb or not. And the added speed of increased leverage at the top end makes the difference in being able to keep up with cars while descending or not. So for me, the 2x makes more sense. Your analysis certainly helps me come to that conclusion. But it's more an issue of what terrain you're riding and what your riding style is. Thanks!
This was an excellent and wonky analysis of gear ratios (and I mean that in the best possible way, I teach and do economic modeling and quantitative research methods, this is how I think). I've been considering buying a semi-gravel bike (Trek FX Sport 5) with a 1x system using the same GRX drive train with the same 11-42 in the back, 40 in the front, that you used in your modeling. So your video is already valuable to me right out of the gate. You derived useful lessons and explained them very clearly: overall range is higher for the 2x system but not THAT much higher. Importantly, at the low end, the gear ratio is the same between the 1x and 2x systems, so climbing hills shouldn't be any harder on the 1x. On the high end, the highest gear on the 1x has about the same gear ratio as the 2nd highest gear on the 2x, so you can go faster on flats in the highest gear on the 2x than you could on the highest gear on the 1x. But I don't think that's a big deal: most people looking at gravel bikes with 1x systems are less interested in speed on flat paved roads and more interested in control and comfort on dirt trails with loose gravel or pebbles or muddy spots. You also showed important stuff about the jumps. In higher gears, you're more likely to need smaller jumps to allow for better fine-tuning of your cadence, and the 1x system has jumps that match the 2x system's. In lower gears, the jumps aren't as important, so that's where Shimano spaces out the 1x gears more. I also liked your demonstration that the 2x system has some duplicate gear ratios, so the total number of unique gears is smaller than 2 times the number of gears in the back. All of this is very relevant for my purchase decision. Now, I feel confident enough in my familiarity with the principles here to know that the disadvantages of the 1x drivetrain are, for me, very minor and mostly not relevant. So I can make a more informed purchase decision and feel more like I know what I'm getting into despite that this will be my first time ever with a 1x drivetrain. So, thank you! p.s. If my summaries of your lessons and explanations have errors, please correct them. more p.s. Ever thought of being a teacher? You'd be really good.
I've just converted my 3x hybrid to gravel use by purchasing some Hunt Carbon 30 Allroad wheels, 34-11 10sp cassette & Schwalbe 35c All-round nobblies - it's been a blast revisiting local trails. I didn't want to make space for a 3rd bike in my flat, hence not just buying a hardtail instead, especially as the choice at the mo is so poor here in the UK. 1x drive as you point out, makes perfect sense on MTBs, particularly full-suss. On a gravel bike, IMO - it does not ANY sense if that bike is going to be ridden much on-road. Another important advantage not mentioned here is when you are riding an unfamiliar trail where you turn a corner to be confronted by a steep climb. On a 1x, you have to grind the gears by changing down onto a larger cog that puts strain on all the drive train & legs. On a 2x bike, you can drop off the large chainring onto the smaller one - mechanically much easier & faster. If you are already on the smallest chainring, chaining down onto a larger cog is going to be easier anyway because the difference is going to be smaller. 1x on MTBs is going to be superseded as it is now by gearbox tech fairly soon, I suspect - possibly by Gates belt drive & hub gears. Having a long-cage rear derailleur hanging down is not a great idea on many rocky trails!
This is simple. If weight is what you’re after, then take a dump before going cycling (worth more tha the wight difference between 2x and 1x). You should consider 1x if you want the lowest maintenance (after single speed) bike possible and can afford loosing some speed on the flats. If the speed is a priority then 2x is a better solution. Generally speaking, the choice is easy if you know your priorities.
New sub here and going through your videos. The quality is incredible. I have to say, this is the most informative 1X vs. 2X video I've ever watched!. Everybody else seems to mention the jump in 1X gears, but not explain WHERE those jumps are. I had a 1X Salsa Cutthroat a couple years ago and was never bothered by the gearing. I also came of a mountain bike so that may be why as you mentioned. When I bought my Diverge, it was 2X and I did notice I was only using about half the gears so I decided to order my new bike with GRX 1X and this video confirms I probably won't notice the difference except by not having to deal with adjusting my front mech every now and again. Thank you!
Wow, thanks again for the great feedback! I’m starting to think I could probably get away with 1x for 90% of all scenarios. We shall see what I end up with next.. haha
great detail on gear ratios. one note (and possible con) for 1X is frictional losses. narrow-wide chainrings and tight chain articulations (10t cog) result in small power losses compared to 2X. To recreational riders just trying to have fun .. not a big deal. but to the competitor, especially one entered in a fast event like SBT Gravel, this could be worth considering.
That was actually a sweet break down, thank you! I actually almost didn’t watch the video but you answered my question perfectly. I wanted perspective on 1x gap jumps. Some cassettes are more easily spaced from say 11-46 and some only have the big jumps at the end. New to biking since my teens and figuring out the best setup for my current options. I was thinking I’d prefer them evenly spaced and now i know I’d actually prefer all the big jumps with the bigger cogs due to how i remember riding long ago. Appreciate my man! Great vid!
You really went the extra mile here and it's appreciated. This has helped me loads to decide which way to go. Thanks
Glad it was helpful and thx for watching!
What did you go for?
No-one want to talk about increased chain wear on the 1x system as you will ride with a much more angled chain pull when in the lighter(est) gears. And this adds noise too. Not a biggy, but worth a thought. Apart from that, for beginners and non-wrenchers, 1x will serve you well everywhere
As Mr Quindazzi says the most important 1x problem is that you have to commit to a single chainring. If you go too extreme you will end up lacking. 34T will allow you to be almost in an MBT but you will not be able to race to much, and 46T might give you enough speed but you will have to be very strong to be able to climb a lot, even on a 10-36T cassette. The bottom line is that on gravel you might go 2x to have some "good for everything" bike or go 1x a commit a little more on what are you going to mostly do with your bike, road or climbs....
2x 46/30 with 11-36 is the most versatile budget friendly setup for gravel bike i can think of. gives less than 1:1 ratio and huge top end.
I use a 11-50 Sram casette with a 42T narrow-wide chainring. But there are 10-52 casettes for even more range. I don't think, range would really be a limiting factor on a 1x system.
@@peterkiss1204 Yeah, 10-52 (which I think is the max range right now) Gives you range but you still have to commit on the chainring. You either go for a roadish 46 or higher, or go MBTish for a 40 or lower. It looks that those 10-52 will give you everyhitng but there will be climbs too steep for a 52 (C) to 46(CR) or descending roads where your 10 - 36 will not be enough.
It´s important to make sure of what are you going to do the most and prepare for that, while making sure that you know what you are missing.
@@azathell As I see you really don't need anything too much below 1/1 gear ratio. It already is almost as easy as walking.
I rode a 48T chainring with a 9 speed 11-36 Shimano casette before changed to 12 speed. The 11/48 gear ratio was plenty enough for me, and would be probably for most cyclists. The only reason I changed to 42T is because the 12 speed system required a narrow-wide chainring, and I couldn't find a bigger one that fits my frame and crank set.
@@High_Octane what casette do you use?
For me the pros at 2x are simple: Better for the chain and fast downshifting is soo much more comfortable ...
I have switched back to 2x for practical and performance considerations.
Let me set up the reasons. 1. I live in a hilly part of SoCal.
2. The guys I ride with believe there is an invisible KOM banner at the top of every climb. 3. I ride the pavement to the trailhead. This includes invisible sprint and KOM points as well.
The practical reasons: 1. I run a 38/22 in the front and 10/36 in the rear. I use the same cassette and chain for my road bike.
2. Chain and cassette wear is less due to the extreme angles of the lower gears used under pressure off-road.
3. Less chainring wear. I use the small ring a majority of the time off-road. (Climbing ride time vs. desending ride time.) The small ring is steel and inexpensive.
4. It is quiet.
The performance reasons:
1. The gaps between gears while climbing steep sections. I can find the goldilocks gear while my buddies struggle (and who does not enjoy watching their friends struggle!). The smaller gaps in the rear combined with the 22t inner ring always work out better.
2. There is no #2
Now, I can honestly understand the benefits of the 1x system for the manufacturer and the consumer.
For the manufacturer:
1. Less SKUs. No shifter, derailleur, inner ring, and bolts.
2. Market the simplicity of operation and maintenance of the 1x system (while charging the same price for fewer parts). 😉
3. Easier frame design.
4. One less cable to route.
For the consumer:
1. Ease of operation. I agree that having one shift control vs. two is easier. I just do not see it as a huge problem to anyone besides a true novice.
2. Ease of maintenance. Agreed. I do a wheels off clean/inspection nearly every ride, and the area around the front derailleur is a pain to clean.
3. One less thing to adjust. Agreed, but once set, the front derailleur does not need to be adjusted. This may be another novice issue.
4. Aesthetics. Less bar clutter, less cabling, cleaner bottom bracket area. The only ugly part is that huge cassette thing and massive rear derailleur.
5. Chain drop and mud clearance. I have yet to drop a chain, and if mud is not an issue in SoCal. I know we test our gravel bikes with the terrain, but if you are having these issues, maybe you need to rethink your bike choice.
Now, do I think there is a place for 1x. Of course. 1x is great if you are riding at a leisurely pace. It excels in the non racing MTB world, where climbing considerations take a back seat to suspension. Yes, I know the pros ride 1x. They ride the equipment provided and can also put down multiple times the watts compared to us mortals. For city/leisure bikes, it is the best as these bikes are ridden by novices. The simplicity of one shifter to someone intimidated by the thought of gears is a godsend.
Thank you for entertaining my rant.
"The performance reasons" - You have faster gears in 2x system.
2x all the way, i have 1x mtb, 1x fatbike, 2x road bike, and recently purchased 2x gravel bike, and I'm convinced in a good choice. 1x drivetrain isn't good enough on the tarmac, if the relief is flat and hills, you have to play or shift several cogs to be ok, but on the 2x you just switch from big chairing to the small, and thats all. Another big issu with 1x is the high speed on the tarmac, 40x11 isn't enough for moderate cadence
And of course, any cycliste must have some knowledge how 2x chainring works and how to adjust front derailleur, i mean trim position or fully engaged to avoid the chain and derailleur contact
Nowadays, you can only find one or two 2x bikes in model ranges; the majority are 1x
Just found your site and it’s great! I’m also an engineer so I really appreciate the details.
I did similar analysis on 1x a couple of years ago. I changed my 3 mountain bikes to 1x. Best move ever. My girlfriend is a novice rider and struggled with 2x. She was always cross chaining and confused, especially in the woods. Now that she’s on 1x, she’s significantly improved because she doesn’t think about shifting. I strongly recommend 1x for anyone new to mt biking because of the simplicity.
Keep the good videos coming!
Nice! Yea it’s way easier for newer riders not worrying about a front mech. Thanks for watching!
this was by far the most clear explanation i've seen on the advantages/disadvantages between 1x and 2x. suuuuuuper helpful, thanks!
Started out on a 1x mountain bike and always felt like I didn't have enough top end speed. Went 2x (50/34) on my gravel bike with an 11-40 cassette and I finally found an almost perfect system for climbing up and sprinting on flats and descents.
50/34 is a tad to much for me. I am running a 48/32 with an 11-32.
What speed is your drive train?
I am so torn on trying a 1x or wether or not to replace my worn 2x9 with what I have. The cost will be pretty much the same but losing top and bottom gears scares me.
Depends on your needs. I have a Tern Verge X11. It has a 52 chainring on the front and a 10--42 on the back with 451mm wheels. And there's no hill I haven't been able to get up. And it is plenty fast on the 10 to 52. What people forget. Is having a bigger gear ratio at the top means little if you cannot get a good cadence. And I have experimented with a 56 tooth front chainring and actually went slower than the 52.
As someone who has/had 1x,2x and 3x both in MTB and road bikes, allow me to share my personal opinion on the matter:
1x is way cooler looking and offers a clean cockpit. But the range will be more "specialized" for lack of a better term; meaning you either choose high range for speed or low range for climbing, but not both in the same ride (depending on the size of the installed single chainring in the front)
2x and 3x might look a bit uglier yes, but in terms of functionality, range, as well as jumps between gears, there is no beating them!
That's why my adventure machine (a Hardtail) is still a 3x10 to this day. I mostly only use 2 of the rings upfront , but just having the option to switch to the tiny third ring in the front has saved my ass many times where a hill is too steep. Meanwhile the largest chainring (40 tooth) allow me to go downhill to almost 55 Kmh before I start spinning out (I don't like spinning fast, more of a grinder, so my cadence is probably lower than average).
In short. I don't like 1x as much as a 2x or a 3x, regardless of the kind of bike, even Mountainbikes, which is why I got rid of my 1x SRAM eagle XC bike and got a 2x instead.
Thanks for the thoughtful, well-articulated input!
I recently decided to refurbish my old bike and think about modernizing the drivetrain.
I had my last bike 25 years ago so it's been a while and so much has changed since.
Nice to see this video. Saved me some time and an Excel spreadsheet;)
Great video! I had this very debate when I was deciding which gravel bike to buy. I have increasingly favored 1x drivetrains on my bikes over the last few years. I find 1x stems better suited for off-road riding or casual street riding. The larger jumps are more noticeable and less desirable when you are going faster and trying to find that optimal cadence as you mentioned in your video. It looks like Shimano tried to eliminate that as much as possible and, like you, I am second guessing my decision to go 2x on my gravel bike.
I definitely should have studied gear ratios a bit more to better understand how my ride would have been impacted by the ratio gaps. My logic was oversimplified in that I decided that 1x11 would not yield appropriate ratio gaps and that I would need at least a 1x12 to achieve a more appropriate progression of ratios. Perhaps that is somewhat accurate, but after looking at how Shimano does it, I think I would have been just fine because regardless of whether you go 11-40, 11-42, or 11-46, all three have the same progression of 11-13-15-17-19-21-24.
Then, along comes Campy with their new Ekar 1x13 gravel groupset. Have you seen it? They offer 3 different cassette options:
9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-20-23-27-31-36
9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-21-25-30-36-42
10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-26-32-39-44
Looks like they are taking what Shimano does to the next level with packing the top end of the cassette with very tightly spaced gears.
Had I gone with a 1x gravel bike, it more than likely would have been equipped with SRAM Apex 1:
11-13-15-17-19-22-25-28-32-36-42
They start ramping up the progression one cog earlier than Shimano with a larger jump from 19-22.
My Specialized Diverge has a Shimano 11-34 configured as such:
11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34
The 48T big ring on my bikes does have me favoring the 17-19-21-23-27 cogs most which are all 2 tooth ratio gaps. Had I gone 1x SRAM with a 42T ring, I would be favoring the 15-17-19-22-25 cogs. My ratios would be very close to the same with the 1x setup except for when I was on the 22 and 25 where the gaps spread just a tad. Not likely a big deal.
Sorry this is so long of a comment, but one last thing. After getting my Diverge, I ended up building a super budget gravel bike that I intend to actually ride on the local mountain bike trails. I have it setup with 650B x 47 tubeless tires and a 1x8, 38T ring with an 11-40 cassette. Those are some big jumps (11-13-16-20-24-28-34-40)! The little bit I have ridden it on trails does seem to validate my initial impression that 1x is better suited for slower riding. It is insanely fun and I can't wait to try it out with the recently installed dropper post!
Thanks for hopefully reading this and I look forward to more content like this if you decide to make it.
Hey man, excellent reply and observations! Thx for checking it out. Lot to unpack here, but basically, yes I’ve found that there’s more to it than just disregarding 1x bc the jumps will be presumed to large. On a side note, saw your 650B setup on the diverge. Something I want to explore soon! Looking forward unto your ride review on 650B.
just get a mtb please lol
@@High_Octane I have one of those, too.
And here I am using a 3x9 drivetrain for more gear ratios on my 26' Converted Gravel bike
Yup, I been a roadie for over 10 years. Just recently jumped to a gravel bike & hard tail MTB. Gear gaps are just insane, for a roadie...its taking time to get use to it
The gaps and extra cost of parts put me off.
I run a 3x9 and all the gear gaps are super close. I also have a roadie with a 2x10. I wouldn’t mind a wide range 1x9 or 1x10 since I am constantly double or triple tapping my rear derailleur on road drivetrains. In a 1x operation is really simple and every gear is uniquely useful.
Thats right 9 SPEEDS RULE for me. Too much whining over gear jumps. SERIOUSLY your legs don't care. They only know is it too hard or not hard enough.
9,10,11,13,15,17,20,23,26
45 on the front. Absolute perfection. No hill I cannot climb. And I can break 25mph on the flat. And for a 20 inch wheel folder and a 59 year old rider. That's all I need.
Just went back to a 2x system on my second mtb...first to address the chainline issues of the 1x system. Then the gear ratios. Good that I stayed with my 2x on my first mtb.
many thanks for this! for me 1x set up if you are doing bikepacking, recreational rides which is enough...2x if you gravel race and definitely road cycling..
Best most useful discussion I've seen on this topic. You did the heavy lifting and then simplified the results for the rest of us. Thanks.
Nice, thx for the feedback!
Wow, this is just what I've been looking for (you obviously have some kind of analytical background--good work). I have a 1 x 8 hybrid with a typical 11-34 cassette and a 38T chain ring on 27.5" wheels. I rarely use my 8th gear, but I do wish I had a little bit more gear climbing ability. So I bought a 36T chain ring hoping that will help (haven't tried it yet--waiting for the snow to melt :-). If a 36T ring is still inadequate, then I'll try a 34T one. However, I will never go back to a 2x or 3x configuration. Thanks again for your video.
BEST description on the topic....and CLEARLY showed the side-by-side comparison and where the literal differences are. BRAVO!!!!!
Thanks for the video and sharing your thought’s I went with 2x GRX 810 31/48 up front and XT 11/42 in the rear, for just about anywhere you want to go.
You missed a few points. The longer derailleur cage especially on the largest range cassettes, will project down further, and therefore more in harms way for debris. Also the longer cage means adjustment for proper operation is more sensitive, and easier for the 1X system to fall out of adjustment or failure to be properly adjusted. Next there is greater wear on the single front cog, where wear can be spread on the 2X system, or potentially reduced due to potentially having better chainlines. Lastly if you damage the front chainring while riding on the 1X, you are going reliant on that chainring that may or may not have some functionality. While with the 2X setup, you are likely have a backup chainring built in. What you present if fine, but it neglects failure analysis, and on long and/or multiday rides, or remote areas, these considerations are extremely important.
for some
@@TheBikeSauce which is exactly my point, but was not addressed.
You did an amazing job of analyzing and providing an understandable description of the advantages between 1X vs 2X.
Thx for watching!
MTB person here and this video was hugely helpful for me as well. I was quite literally thinking about doing some Matlab coding myself to quantity the difference between 1x, 2x & 3x MTBs too so I'm glad I stumbled upon your video doing the exact same. Definitely worth geeking out to some gear ratios
Best gear ratio video ever. Change chain ring will jump a few gears, this can be annoying at times. Yes, experience with your bike will minimise the pause effect but still not as intuitive compared to 1 by - "not quite the gear I wanted, try the next one". For people new to cycling, this ease of use characteristic of 1 by is a bonus.
After I had my old mountainbike serviced, I noticed that while speeding up with the front on the smaller wheel, it didn't grab the chain and I almost died on a road, because I couldn't get my bike going. Ever since I used the big blade on the front and learnt to change only the back gear. Now I'm looking for a new bike and I want to buy a gravelbike as under the circumstances where I drive here in Thailand (rough and smooth roads, sand, and gravel on the road) I found a lot information about anything related to gravelbikes (and mountainbikes). And given the experience I had and your video, the choice is easy: I go for the 1x drivetrain. Last sunday I was in a shop which only had mountainbikes or racebikes, the seller was showing the 1x drivetrain bikes as the latest innovation. I thought it was ridiculous, but now I learnt that this is really what I want. Thanks for helping me decide!
This was super helpful. I almost skipped a smoking deal on a used gravel bike because it's 1x but this video explained to me that I'll be fine.
Nice! There is something people forget to think about.
Tarmac roads are designed for vehicle that will keep around 88mph so they spend a lot of money modifying the terrain to not have abrupt changes on the slope cause it could make the cars at 88mph to jump over the hills.
Gravel roads are design to velocities close to 20mph, so you can save some money and allow fast changing in the slope.
For road bikers, riding in automotive tarmac road, it means very small changing on the slope during a long ride, so small gaps are more important.
For MTB rides, the changes in slope of the terrain are usually huge, so you frequently change 2 or 3 gear at the some time, so bigger step will not make much difference.
For Gravel, if you stick only to gravel roads and singles tracks, the 1x MTB transmission steps is just fine.
The 2x on a Gravel bike will make more sense when you are using the bike to travel, cause sometimes you will need small gaps to ride long tarmac roads and sometimes you will need the small chain ring to climb a single track.
I use my gravel bike as a gravel, touring, all-around bike. I have had the luxury of running Shimano Grx in 1X and 2X in a touring and every day situations from roads to gravel and fully loaded touring. I have also had the luxury of pushing the limits with goat links and the like. I'm two going on three years into trying this on bikes. I started with 1X and switched to 2X mostly thinking I was missing out on something. This I know. I like close gear ratios but I hate the maintenance and potential problems of 2X. I LOVE the simplicity of the 1X and really might prefer it due to the simplicity and the realization that you have what you have. The best of both worlds may be having a crank that can accept 1X AND 2X.
I don’t know yet if I’ll go 1x on a new gravel bike, but I sure enjoyed your videos on the subject:)
The punchline is at 11:30. SRAM 12 speed had bigger jumps at faster speeds. Campy ekar only has 1 tooth jumps at faster speeds
Wow, this is by far the best explanation I've found. Your video makes me a lot more confident about a 1x system.
Right on!
I prefer my setup with 2x GRX DI2 with a 48/31 crankset paired with a SRAM 11-36 cassette. I can climb any hill on a gravel ride or swap wheels or tires and go fast on a road group ride. Another neat trick with 2x DI2 GRX is the Synchro shift feature which will automatically shift the front derailleur when you shift the rear so it essentially acts like a 1x.
Baller. I haven’t made the jump to electronic shifting. Not sure I ever will, but who knows.
Thanks for geeking out and making this video. I found it very informative. I like the 1x systems for their simplicity. Also I go back to the many times that the chain was rubbing on the front derailleur and driving me nuts. Yeah, it was out of adjustment, but now no worries about that.
At least on a 2X you can tune your derailleur to get rid of the rub.
What i do not like about my 1X is when my chain is on the top gear, a part of it rubs on the second highest gear because of the angle. Also the sound that the chain makes on the chainring when i am at the lowest gear which is again caused by the angle. Both indicate additional friction that could be avoided on a 2X setup if you choose your gears adequately.
Ok, you may have done the impossible: you made a video about gear ratios REALLY REALLY interesting! Besides all the diligence in getting your data together, you presented it all in a way that "us common weekend warriors" can understand and appreciate. I went 1X for my gravel, and while I went kinda cheap on the frame, the components are (for me) pretty snazzy with the SRAM Rival etap system. And while I thought wireless was probably wasted on a rider like me, I LOVE IT. Keep up the good work!
Most underrated bike channel on youtube
Much too kind. Thanks!
Without a doubt! The production quality and content is great. I can't wait to watch his future videos.
@@nomap2161 Super kind. Thanks for the motivation!
Can’t agree with the comments above more. Watch all your videos multiple times - they’re ridiculously informative/helpful.
Thanks! And double thanks for placing the very first order in my shop. Let me know if it doesn’t go smoothly.
2by is more likely to have a streighter chainline. So it is more efficiant. No idea how much it is, but 1 by has quit often a cross chain.
LOL! "Did I totally geek out and write some Matlab code to sort out gear ratios for gravel bikes? Yes. Yes, I did."
Bruce Wayne to Lucius Fox, when Fox opens the garage door to reveal 'The Bat:' "Oh, now you're just showing off!"
*
This is next level stuff. But the next next level would be downloading your Strava gpx data and parsing your distribution of speeds and plotting that over your gear ratio plots. You'd want the area with the smallest ratio jumps to coincide with your most common speeds.
Next next next level is parsing your power data and generating a bivariate distribution of speeds and power versus time to correlate to hear ratios. You'd have to preprocess to drop the zeroes, like when you're not pedaling and have zero power.
Finally a mathmatical geometric on the gearing of 1 by vs 2 by. I just ordered my Sram 1 by and have been searching the internet for fear that I may be missing the smaller gaps in the larger gears, and thankfuly you address the answer. I'll be fine! Great job!
Extensive mathematical analysis. I think you missed 2 things: 1x have more frictional losses, and the actual reduction in range is significant in that you'll end up short on one end or the other- that is especially important for older and heavier riders on the low end. I really don't think jumps between gears is all that important. 2x with 11-40 Cassette is the best all around solution. Good video
It’s almost like you didn’t watch the video.
Now we have 12 speed, smaller jump. I compared a 2x GRX with my sram mullet on an online gear calculator. 2 x11 actually only has around 15 speeds. And the jump between ratios on the 2X is inconsistent. With the 1 x there are 12 speeds and the gear jumps are consistent. There are portions of the 2x where the jump is the same as 1 x. And some of those fine jumps mean going back and forth on the front chainring. The point is, 1x offers many advantages, so the gear jump must really be important to you to not want to go 1x. Even then I don’t know if there is a big gear jump advantage.
when I bought my first dropbar bike last year, i went for a 1by gravel bike. GRX with 40t in front and 11-42 in the back. this spring I got a new wheel set for road and now im mainly driving on tarmac. I watched your videos about converting the grx to fit a 11-46 cassette. the plan is to go with a 46t chainring a with the 11-46 cassette. then I have the same jumps as in my 11-42 cassette. only the last jump is bigger. but here in northern Germany its really flat so its only an emergency gear and should be fine. the 2t jumps are still to big sometimes but should be fine for now.
AWESOME Gear Ratios lecture =P
Great video! There are a few other points I'd throw into the mix. Firstly, 1x makes it easy to change your overall gearing, simply by swapping the chainring. Secondly, in the graphs of 2x great options, I'd ignore the 4 gears with the worst cross-chaining, making the number of unique gears even less. Thirdly, it's probably worth acknowledging that the extreme gears on a 1x have worse chainline than any sane 2x ratios, which might be a consideration. Fourthly, another pro for 1x is that the chain is much less likely to be unshipped. And finally (!) It would be interesting to see some of your graphs comparing more modern groupsets, like SRAM AXS Wide Vs Campag Ekar. You know you want to!!!
Great insights! I agree with everything you mentioned, including another video (or series) on other drivetrains. Will put it on the to-do!
@@TheBikeSauce late to the party. great video. Agree with Richard. Be interesting to add the 1x ratios to you chart @ 8:45, and highlight the cross chain ratios on the 2x Richard describes. Great stuff!
l have both systems on my bikes even 3x on my old MTB and they all have their purpose . 1x for daily use is a great all rounder 2x for my road bike provides wider ratio of gears for max performance abilities !! AND 3x can Either provide more variety of gears for smaller cassettes like 7spd old skool or providing more ratios in a lower ranges 8-11spd or even providing lower gear ratios for basic cassettes like 11-28 or 11-32
Better to look at Gear Inches as that takes account of positive impact of running larger tyres on same wheel diameter you talk about on 1x a small gain but still it is there. Or even Sheldon Browns Gain Ratios which is dimesionless and not only takes account of any varistion in overall wheel diameter including the tyre but also the crank length amazingly. 😊
Geek out to the next level… 1x 50t 10-44 on a gravel ebike. Lol. What I am trying to work out is role of e power to make up for needing to change gears. I am also trying to understand the concern of changing gears on a mid drive ebike. It’s a whole other dimension.
I recently switched from a Trekking/Touring bike with a 3x system, a 2x allowed me to do an easy tradition. Regarding the use of more of the gears in the 2x system: depending on the terrain that you drive on you can make more of the gears that you go on I think. I noticed when cycling in snow and mud that more finer gear ratios help me to cycle faster while still having easy control over my bike when a to high gear would be simple to much maintain speed in.
In my opinion, 1x drive trains are just another attempt to sell the customer something new. In the real world, they seldom offer any actual benefit, except being cheaper when used on city bikes that literally need no particularly high or low gearing, or on bikes that are highly specialized towards on particular activity that either only needs low gears or only high gears.
1) Simpler - yes, but honestly, what active driver struggles to use a 2x or 3x? Correct, nobody. And due to the extreme chain lines of a 1x, parts will wear much more quickly, bringing more maintenance and cost in the long run than any 2x or 3x.
2) Lighter - yes, but A: a few hundret grams are absolutely inconsequential if you are not happen to ride at the Tour de France. It's literally like having your keys in your pocket or not. And B: whatever gains you'll have in terms of weight, you will loose tenfold in efficiency (again, because of the extreme chainline in certain gears)
3) Tire width - errrr, MTBs used 2x and 3x systems for ages now and they nevere had an issue with tire width.
Another downside of a 1x, which is often ignored, is the fact, that you HAVE to step through ALL THE GEARS when accelerating from slow speeds. People often say, that on a 2x or 3x all they did was shifting a lot. I feel the exact opposite. Even just with the 10 gears I have now, on curvy and mountainous terrain I am constantly shifting six, seven, eight, nine, times and then down again for the next switchback, resulting into 18 times clickediclack, wheras on a 2x I would have covered the same distance with literally half the shifts or less.
Add to that the "hunting for the right gear" issue, and you are approaching some essential questions. By the way, the notion that 2x or 3x offer duplicated gears isn't exactly true either. Even on my 3 x 10 flatbar gravel bike, there literally is not one gear on there that has the same ration as the others. Some are very close, but due to the different chainlines and slight differences in ratio, they do indeed feel different. As they say: It's always better to have, than to need.
We live in a somewhat mountainous area, and I need my gears to be low AND high. In the case of my transmission, it does neither, on an MTB, it will do low, but not high, and on a road bike it will do high, but not now. A 1x literally will not do that for you. Not even a current top range 1x12 by Sram or Shimano. And no, the upcoming 1x13 won't solve that problem either, they will make it worse by bringing even more absurd chainlines and overly long derailleurs, that are just waiting to be hit by a rock.
Since especially gravel bikes need to go both fast on the flat and have low enough gearing to tackle serious uphill climbs, it's abolutely beyond me why so many manufacturers tend to put 1x transmissions on them. It really is a step backwards and one of the reasons why most Gravel bike buyers do buy the bike they want, but not the bike they need.
An exception might be the flat bar gravel bike, which often has a 2x or 3x transmission and a suspension fork. THAT makes sense. But it's not new. It used to be called Cross Bike and was cool 10 years ago. They literally wrapped it in a new Gravel Bike package and sell it to you as the new thing. It is one of the better bike concepts though, so I am glad it's still around.
Hello, whoever you are, thank you. This is the best comment to this awesome video.
Great analysis! So, it has more to do with gear total range rather than the gaps between the cogs. 2x grx has a wider range than 1x. So, if you need to climb hills and go fast at the same time, go 2x, if don’t, go 1x that is much simpler.
I won't give up my dropper post. Integrating into the left lever is clean. I'm not trying to win races, so it was an easy choice for me.
It's worth remembering for people that live in lumpy countries like Scotland you are nearly always going up or down hills so it's nice having down hill gears and uphill gears and the fine gears are nice to have the most nice gear for a particular slope
Blah Blah Blah!!!! I got a 3x9 and I love!!!!
I would love to see a 3x12 drivetrain in the future!!!!!
Haha why tho
@@TheBikeSauce
Why Not????
It would be great!!!!
Think about what you can do with it!!!!!
Geek away brother. Very helpful, even in 2022.
A year later, and the Campagnolo Ekar group set offers 13 cogs for a 1x system, which pretty much means you can have your cake and eat it too. Depending on which cassette you choose, you can effectively match both the range and the spacing between gears to that of a typical road bike with compact 2x cranks. Of course, you can instead choose to trade a wider spacing for increased range.
Up until very recently, i completely avoided 1x bikes, as it seemed like a poor choice for range and efficiency, but now that i keep seeing actual data about it, doesn't seem like a bad deal. Now i have this exact 46-30 and 11-34 on my bike, but having a 40T chainring paired with an 11-46 would be pretty similar in climbing gears, and only slightly slower in the faster gears (something i'd probably not miss much).
2x has also better weight distribution(more of the weight is in the center), with better efficiency and longevity due to the straighter chainline(if you use it correctly).
Are you suggesting the weight of the fd and a smaller cassette helps keep the mass more centered and somehow makes a non-negligible difference?
@@TheBikeSauce I do indeed.
Chainline doesn’t cause wear. Modern tech and manufacturing allows chains to bend more than your old sturmey archer drivetrain.
@@Cous1nJack where have you heard that, the ads? Btw, what's the price of a 11-12spd chain?
Looks like you're looking for the question to the answer.
The debate always revolves around keeping the big gears(100+ inches) well what if you're not bothered about peddling at 25 mph+. Simple you find an after market 34 tooth front ring and run a 11-34 cassette and benefit from small jumps and even lower weight :) just like i have, i hardly ever use the 11 even now.
Nice. Could maybe even go 32t front and get a lower lower end
May be a bad exapmle, but I had only department store bikes in my childhood and last one had that heavy and stupid 3x system, which never felt right - as I was smaller, I just couldn`t make it work, so ended up using middle ring. As I grew taller and heavier I clearly felt, that even the biggest ring on front is not enough for me. While my student years I didn`t really had a chance to ride or even to have a bike, but now I have my gravel 1x bike and I absolutely love it! I`m not riding in big groups to keep up with certain speed or top or bottom gears, so they are not effective - it`s just that good for me - no stupid front deraulier, no need to think about chain angle and in previous season not even once I had my chain dropped or rubbing. Oh, and mtb casette looks awesome as well)
A 1X system generally isn't actually lighter, because the rear cassette needs to be so much bigger. For a RX600 group the 2x cassette weighs 250g, the 1x weighs 411. That difference offsets the front derailleur and cables. So in the end we are talking about differences of 20g or so. unless you are doing tour de france you wont notice 20g, but if you really do, then just take 2cl less water with you. That cassette can sometimes even be so heavy that you can feel the inertia, either as chain slap when you stop pedaling, or in the momentum of the pedals (if you rear derailleur has a clutch that is)
Also even if the jumps between the gears are the same I don't think you arrive to the correct conclusion. The jump may be the same, but the cadence vs speed will benefit with the 2x. Lets say you are at a cadence of 75 rpm with 700c wheels. On a 1x on the second highest gear (13t ) with a 40 tooth front chainring you are doing a comfortable 30.4km/h. If you go one gear up, the same cadence is 36km/h. On a 2x the at the same rpm and the closest speed would be the 17 tooth rear with 50tooth front. Then you'd be doing 29.1 km/h, if you go up one gear then you'd be doing 33km/h. If we adjust the cadence of the 2x setup to match the speed of the 1x (by going up to a cadence of 78) the difference is 30.4kmh vs 34.4 km/h
So going from 30.4kmh to 34.4 is hardly the same as 30.4 to 36.0, in fact the step is 40% bigger with the 1x compared to the 2x. With a 46T front on the 2x that bring the difference down to 20% smaller gap than 1x. The difference in how you experience it is, at least to me, quite big. On top of that you can spec your bike with a 12-32 tooth cassette on the 2x and get much smaller steps ( 11-12-13-14-... tooth instead of 11-13-15-17 etc on the top end), at the sacrifice of a little range. The same option does not exist for the 1x system.
To me it all comes down to versatility. I want my gravel bike to be the one bike to do it all. Be it fully loaded as a bike packing bike , a fast and nimble cross country in the woods or on the roads, with or without a lot of headwind, sidewind or downwind. With a 1x drivetrain you loose a lot of that versatility, and the whole point of the gravel bike, imo, disappears.
A 1x groupset does exist with small steps for the higher gears for optimum cadence. 13 speed Campagnolo Ekar rear cassettes have single sprocket differences for all cassettes like. (10-11-12-13-14-15-17-20-23-27-32-38-44) for 10t-44t cassette and 9-36t cassette goes like this (9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-20-23-27-31-36). Regarding weight of the rear cassette, a 11 speed sram x01 10-42t cassette weighs 268g that works with 1x gravel groupsets.
Outstanding effort, research, and thoughtful/well-spoken delivery. I just ordered everything to convert the ole gravel machine to 1x11.
Also, thanks for getting to the point and NOT making us fast-forward through 5 minutes of "what's up guys, bla-bla-bla, thoughtless nonsense.... pretty-please like and subscribe"
Ha! Good to know. I'm not good at the 'bla bla, smash that subscribe button lingo' anyways
Fantastic video! With this data I am now confident to go for 1x on my first gravel bike. Thank you very much!
Here are a few more things to add to the conversation:
1. A 1x is suitable for hard core mtbing but not much else. And if you're doing any kind of distance you should use a 2x because as this video points out a 1x has bigger jumps or higher average gear step percentage. However even having a lower gear step percentage can be a benefit in the trails.
2. You get smoother shifting with a 2x due to the smaller ramp ups.
3. People think 1x is lighter but don't consider the difference in weight between the cassettes.
4. A 2x has better efficiency through tighter ratios but doesn't have the low range of a 1x. This is why more people in the end choose 1x.
The main reason for this is because after moving away from square taper bottom brackets and 2x or 3x systems with small BCDs the industry has steered us into choosing between low end or optimal cadence. They also push race results/top end and going fast but the fact of the matter is that the majority of us really need more mid to low end range. So when you go to buy a new bike your kind of stuck unless you are willing to go back a bit and consider what I have found to be the ultimate 2x crank: the double BCD 64/96 four bolt. These can be found for very little money and come in a few different bottom bracket types. The advantages to this crank is that you can run as low as a 22t front ring as well as find ring options all way from 22t to 42t in two teeth increments and the rings are very inexpensive.
I've built a number of budget bikes with true overall capability in mind. They vary in type but all use that four bolt crank. It's usually something like an 11/34 cassette and a 22/38 front. (I've ran as high as a 42t front with the 22t and it shifts just fine). This is have your cake and eat it too as you have low average gear steps, stump pulling low end and however much high end you want. I usually choose my front big ring based on how much of the cassette it will allow me to use (another thing to consider but again on a modern 2x you don't have much for options) On one of my bikes I dropped from a 42t down to a 38t because I was in my first 3-4 gears all the time. Now I use more of the cassette. I may have lost some top end but rarely do I need that ability.
Food for thought!
Thanks for the video. I like your approach a lot. As you said, what really matters in gaps lies in high speed gears. Big jumps in low gears usually don’t matter. Still, I think that 1x system needs one more cog than 2x drivetrain for ‘bailout.’ Adding 50t to 11-42t and using 50t chainring would feel much like 50/34t + 11-34t. I really hope that Shimano comes with 12s for 1x.
Furthermore, one more benefit of 1x you didn’t mention is, I think, the versatility in choosing chainrings. Of course, you can change chainrings in 2x but it is a lot of hassle to adjust a front derailleur every time, and choices are limited. If I am willing to change chains, I can go with 50t for a fast road riding and 34t for a stiff mountain climbing. Or you can delve into some good combinations of cassette and chainring that suits your riding capacity.
Agreed! Simplicity in swapping chainrings is a big plus.
i tried already both and the main reasons to go for 2x are for me, that you kind of have a hybrid way of driving (you can go fast and do roadbike trips - mostly using the big ring; or go on MTB trails and mostly use the small ring. The second main reason for me ist, that i just dont like the chaincrossing noise and feel on a 1x. It doesnt feel good and it also seems (in my mind) to constantly wearing out my chain and the casette. And if im going uphill a really steep climb, having that feeling and noise in mind ist just not that comfortable for my driving "feel" - if you can say it like that (sorry for my english, i'm german ;D)
Totally understand that sense of always mildly cross chaining on 1x; I feel that on my mtb. I like the driving analogy! And your English is great!
Chainline is king!
This is the correct answer 2x is king
@@TheBikeSauce how efficient is the chainline of a 2X compared to a somewhat equivalent 1X? I saw one test from Velonews by CeramicSpeed which shows that a 2X system only has an average of 3 watt advantage over a 1X for a 250 watt input; the 1X had 12.24 watts of frictional loss while the 2X had 9.45 watts of frictional loss.
Looking at percentages, the 1X has on average 29.5% more frictional losses than a 2X, but the absolute difference is just 3 watts for a 250 watt input.
What i did not like about the test is that they tested drivetrains from 2 different brands instead of testing a 1X vs 2X from the same groupset of the same manufacturer. Plus the chain in their test is quite clean, i wish they also done a test using a "dirty" chain that has been used for a few km on gravel before being used in the test rig.
It would be epic if you could perform some sort of test using an indoor trainer and a crank power meter as channel content.
@@Massproduce201 as per CeramicSpeed testing, 1X system has on average 29.5% more frictional losses than a 2X , but if you look at the absolute numbers it is a difference of 3 watts of frictional loss for an input of 250 watts.
To answer your questions at the end: Yes, yes and yes. Thank you! It was to the point and well put; seems like after all I really needed to see some plots to understand the whole gravel business.
One thing to add or ask (from comments I read from other folks elsewhere which made some sense) regarding the advantages of 2x system, on sudden steep sections 2x gives you that option of switching to larger ring instantly, whereas in 1x you have adjust gear by gear to reach the optimum cadence. Is this true? Does it actually come handy i.e. change down the chainring quickly with 2x?
In my experience, I never need to suddenly drop an entire chainring due to a sudden incline. I understand the argument, but a little bit of experience and you’ll know when to shift based on the upcoming ascent or descent. I definitely don’t think it’s the main reason for wanting to go 2x.
@@TheBikeSauce thank you very much understood
Fantastic video! Thank you so very much for all of that information. I have been wanting to make the shift into 1x for a while, this answered all my questions.
yo, this video deserves millions of views. great job and easy to follow. thank you!
With the 1 X you'll use every gear. It will take you longer to get into a consistent rhythm. Not to mention you'll wear out your chain faster
No big deal chains are relatively cheap. People gripe over nonsense. Oh I had to buy a chain for £20 3 months sooner on my 1 by set up than on my 2 by set up. REALLY...
Thank you! This makes me feel better about my 1x choice. Deore 1x 10 speed 11-46 cassette with 40t crank. I live in the Ozark Highlands about an hour NE of Bentonville, AR in Missouri. It’s quite hilly here!
I just got a bike with a 1x (Surly Ghost Grappler) and that was my main concern. It's my first 1x bike and I thought that would be some sacrifice. But what I found is the top gear goes faster than I can ever actually maintain unless I'm going downhill anyway. To me the only time that speed would matter is in a race, which I'm not doing. On the low end it can't go much lower anyway because that front chainring is pretty small. Maybe I could go a bit smaller, I'm not sure.
I was also skeptical about shifting, as it seemed like it would have those problems you mentioned with e.g. using the large chainring on the large cogs. And I've had bikes that just plain (with age) don't shift reliably in the largest or smallest cogs. I don't know what magic allows that to work well but it does, at least so far. If it continues to work well I don't see any reason, for me, to ever use a 2x again. I love having fewer parts! But again I'm no racer.
The first time I've seen matlab be used outside of college. This is awesome
the best video i’ve ever found. finally someone explained quantitively! thanks from nerdy searcher of a bike!))
Coming from a 3BY, I didn't want to take a chance with 1BY. It's not like for the same price model, you have both options. The Aluminium version with 11 gears in the back came with a 1BY only. With the $800 price difference, I could have had the Aluminium frame at 1 lb heavier with carbon wheels at 2 lbs lighter. Aluminium would have given me so much room to add clamping accessories, bike stand, ease of packing. But, I am happy with the carbon frame bike.
You nailed it about max speed limitation to 25 Vs 29. I wanted my diverge to be more like road bike... so I went with 2BY and stiffest spring.. once I have a 32mm tire, it's even closer to Roubaix. The larger front chain rings of Roubaix would have made it harder for me to climb anyways.
I wish bike companies provide such customisation options.
thanks for this, have a grx 1x11 set up and was contemplating to go 2x for the jumps, your mathematical prowess made me appreciate what i have, cheers and ride safe
"mathematical prowess" 😆 Glad to have saved you some money!
The bigger jumps are only in the large cogs. The numbers are there for us to see, but it's great for someone to explain it.
I tried 1x, 3x and currently 2x. I really miss my 3x system. Worst was 1x system. The chains tend to drop more and had to tune more and shifting felt draggy.
Superb visual discussion of 2x overlap. You didn't miss anything.
When figuring potential weight savings for a 1-by system you do need to consider the weight of the different cassettes. It seems possible some or all of the weight saved up front could be matched by more in those huge cassette cogs. But as you say, simplicity matters a lot. For an old (74) roadie like me (riding good road bikes for 45 years), small steps between gears and the ability to match my (high) cadence are important. But as I contemplate my next bike, an e-gravel bike, 1 -by will have to be the future.
Your program made simple the sort of manual calculations we made years ago when designing our ratios. There were many fewer options then (this was even before mountain bikes). We are spoiled for choice now days! Love it, and love your channel.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks, Tom! Coincidentally, I recently swapped my GRX 2x setup for a 1x setup. Weight savings was a total wash! You’re right, the heavier cassette completely cancelled the savings gained by removing components.
An e-gravel bike ought to be loads of fun, and yes we certainly are spoiled by choice in 2021. Important to remember that the equipment is just a tool to facilitate the adventure!
Thanks for watching!
9:45 unless you are using electronic shifting… then you can use both chainrings as you shift up and down
Thanks! You've helped with my sleepless nights, & saved me a pile of cash.
Campy Ekar 1x13 sp does a really good job of tight spacing where it matters most.
I'm still stuck in on 11sp with an e*13 9-46 because there is no 12 sp cassette available that would tighten up the spacing where I like. My 11sp is almost perfect for gravel, but could use 1 or 2 more single tooth jumps for the fast gears. A 9-46 13sp cassette with single tooth jumps for the top 4-5 gears would be perfect for me. Ekar is getting close with the 10-44, but we're not quite there yet imo.
Great video on a timeless topic!
It would have been cool to see you change the front chainring size on the 1x and see where the points fall on the graph. Im really interested in pushing the front chainring size up to be able to hang on rides with road bikers.
The most informative video I found in YT about gear ratios and 1x & 2x comparison. I have decided to go with 1x12 system for my MTB. Thank you!
Nice! Glad it was helpful
Good work, exactly what I was looking for. I'm going 2x!
Thank you, that was such a good explanation of both system's ratios. I am definitely in the roadie -> gravel camp and ultimately went with 2x simply because my do-it-all gravel machine does spend a good amount of time on asphalt. However, I'm less hesitant now to consider a 1x conversion for more dedicated gravel time or events. I'd be interested in that shifting discussion next. To run 2x, being comfortable with double-shifts is definitely a thing, though certainly made easier if one is fortunate enough to afford Di2 and run it in its automated mode.
Ah yes, Di2.. the dream 😆
Hey Sauce, thanks for the detailed breakdown. IDK, maybe because I’m 215lbs +/-, I’d rather see the incremental jumps on the climbs. Anyway have you noticed the same trend in 2023, as you did when you made this video? Meaning is the trend still Incremental jumps in the faster gears? I’m really liking your vids, new and old(er). Take care
Also, if you are not a competitive cyclist (as in competing in events), the bigger jumps in the larger cogs when you are climbing as a less fit athelete don't matter much. I like how you pointed out that the first 6 cogs spacing is the same. What a competitive cyclist loses is pushing the pace at 29mph or more. If you can push 26mph or more, then the 2x will be better. Often times when I had the 2x even offroad during a small downhill, you would switch to the big ring only to get hammered when you hit a short steep section, wanting to go small ring again quickly. This made the 2x system a hinderance. But I imagined that ex-roadies would rather have the big ring to ride home on the road. Again, if you never crank 29mph or have long downhills, you may never need the big ring like you think. That's why 1x makes so much sense on mountain bikes.
Right on, well said!
Your explanation is so enlightening, once you see the picture and you'll get it!
hello i have 40t chainring and 11-42 cassete as mentioned. For me it performs really great. But my previous bike had 3x7 acera. So big uprgrade for me 😁
I prefer 2x since I ride my gravel bike on the road before hitting the trails. I generally have a rule of staying in the big cog when road riding and utilize most the gear range. Also if road climbs go steep I can ride out of saddle (OOS) for additional leverage. Once I go off-road, I go small and switch to high cadence spinning for traction control.
Honestly I don't really see the 2x drivetrain as overlapping, since I ride each chainring differently. 😉
This guy doesn't know the meaning of the word "overlap".
Good Vid. I am building a Surly Midnight special with GRX Di2. I started as a 2x build. Bought GRX 600 2x crankset 46-30 as I wanted 165mm and 800 series shortest was 170mm.
But before buying the front derailleur I decided I might try 1x . 42t Chainring was about $80 AUD and sunrace 11 40 cassette because black! Good news is 1x GRX chainring bolts directly to 2x Crankset using standard bolts. Beware bolts are super tight. I will try 1x and see how i go , my main concern is finding the right cadence at higher power on flat roads. This vid now informs me I may not need to worry. Will go back to 2x if I dont like the 1x. weight does not seem to be too dfferent as a 1x cassette is around 120g heavier than 11-32 and front deralieur is about 120g. Chainring weight is about 70g saved so 1x is maybe 70-100g lighter. Thanks for the good info
Nice! Great bike. I’ve been riding both GRX 1x and 2x recently and I can say I notice the 1x limitation mostly on steep climbs and cruising along up mild grades where sometimes it’s hard to find the right gear. I usually stop pedaling above 25mph so the upper limit isn’t too big an issue for me. Have fun with your build!
@@TheBikeSauce interesting to read this after watching your video. Doesn’t this go against everything you’ve highlighted in the video? I’m only curious as I’m currently trying to decide whether to go 1x or 2x. After watching the video I was going 1x but after reading your comment, I’m now so sure?
This is super helpful. I agree your analysis but come to a different conclusion. I would argue that, rather than the jumps between gears, the high and low end ratios are determinative, especially if you ride in areas with steep hills like Griffith Park in LA. I've had hip surgery and knee issues, so the added ease of a .9 climbing ratio makes the difference between being able to climb or not. And the added speed of increased leverage at the top end makes the difference in being able to keep up with cars while descending or not. So for me, the 2x makes more sense. Your analysis certainly helps me come to that conclusion. But it's more an issue of what terrain you're riding and what your riding style is. Thanks!
Love the thoughtful and diplomatic approach. Sounds like 2x makes total sense for your area and style
This was an excellent and wonky analysis of gear ratios (and I mean that in the best possible way, I teach and do economic modeling and quantitative research methods, this is how I think).
I've been considering buying a semi-gravel bike (Trek FX Sport 5) with a 1x system using the same GRX drive train with the same 11-42 in the back, 40 in the front, that you used in your modeling. So your video is already valuable to me right out of the gate.
You derived useful lessons and explained them very clearly: overall range is higher for the 2x system but not THAT much higher. Importantly, at the low end, the gear ratio is the same between the 1x and 2x systems, so climbing hills shouldn't be any harder on the 1x. On the high end, the highest gear on the 1x has about the same gear ratio as the 2nd highest gear on the 2x, so you can go faster on flats in the highest gear on the 2x than you could on the highest gear on the 1x. But I don't think that's a big deal: most people looking at gravel bikes with 1x systems are less interested in speed on flat paved roads and more interested in control and comfort on dirt trails with loose gravel or pebbles or muddy spots.
You also showed important stuff about the jumps. In higher gears, you're more likely to need smaller jumps to allow for better fine-tuning of your cadence, and the 1x system has jumps that match the 2x system's. In lower gears, the jumps aren't as important, so that's where Shimano spaces out the 1x gears more.
I also liked your demonstration that the 2x system has some duplicate gear ratios, so the total number of unique gears is smaller than 2 times the number of gears in the back.
All of this is very relevant for my purchase decision. Now, I feel confident enough in my familiarity with the principles here to know that the disadvantages of the 1x drivetrain are, for me, very minor and mostly not relevant. So I can make a more informed purchase decision and feel more like I know what I'm getting into despite that this will be my first time ever with a 1x drivetrain.
So, thank you!
p.s. If my summaries of your lessons and explanations have errors, please correct them.
more p.s. Ever thought of being a teacher? You'd be really good.
Nice recap! Yes, I’m a professor of mechanical engineering, but I tried to minimize the lecture-y feel 😆
I like 2x for its versatility. Friend has a 1x the only noticeable difference is the chain slap on my 2x is more prevalent but not a big deal.
Right on. Something for everyone!
I've just converted my 3x hybrid to gravel use by purchasing some Hunt Carbon 30 Allroad wheels, 34-11 10sp cassette & Schwalbe 35c All-round nobblies - it's been a blast revisiting local trails. I didn't want to make space for a 3rd bike in my flat, hence not just buying a hardtail instead, especially as the choice at the mo is so poor here in the UK.
1x drive as you point out, makes perfect sense on MTBs, particularly full-suss. On a gravel bike, IMO - it does not ANY sense if that bike is going to be ridden much on-road.
Another important advantage not mentioned here is when you are riding an unfamiliar trail where you turn a corner to be confronted by a steep climb. On a 1x, you have to grind the gears by changing down onto a larger cog that puts strain on all the drive train & legs. On a 2x bike, you can drop off the large chainring onto the smaller one - mechanically much easier & faster. If you are already on the smallest chainring, chaining down onto a larger cog is going to be easier anyway because the difference is going to be smaller.
1x on MTBs is going to be superseded as it is now by gearbox tech fairly soon, I suspect - possibly by Gates belt drive & hub gears. Having a long-cage rear derailleur hanging down is not a great idea on many rocky trails!
This is simple. If weight is what you’re after, then take a dump before going cycling (worth more tha the wight difference between 2x and 1x). You should consider 1x if you want the lowest maintenance (after single speed) bike possible and can afford loosing some speed on the flats. If the speed is a priority then 2x is a better solution. Generally speaking, the choice is easy if you know your priorities.
Great video, thanks! Thinking about next gravel bike and will now seriously consider 1x.
New sub here and going through your videos. The quality is incredible. I have to say, this is the most informative 1X vs. 2X video I've ever watched!. Everybody else seems to mention the jump in 1X gears, but not explain WHERE those jumps are. I had a 1X Salsa Cutthroat a couple years ago and was never bothered by the gearing. I also came of a mountain bike so that may be why as you mentioned. When I bought my Diverge, it was 2X and I did notice I was only using about half the gears so I decided to order my new bike with GRX 1X and this video confirms I probably won't notice the difference except by not having to deal with adjusting my front mech every now and again. Thank you!
Wow, thanks again for the great feedback! I’m starting to think I could probably get away with 1x for 90% of all scenarios. We shall see what I end up with next.. haha
great detail on gear ratios. one note (and possible con) for 1X is frictional losses. narrow-wide chainrings and tight chain articulations (10t cog) result in small power losses compared to 2X. To recreational riders just trying to have fun .. not a big deal. but to the competitor, especially one entered in a fast event like SBT Gravel, this could be worth considering.
Yup, total geek out but thankyou! LOTS of effort. Much appreciated.
Ha, thanks! Gotta incorporate the bike nerdery
That was actually a sweet break down, thank you! I actually almost didn’t watch the video but you answered my question perfectly. I wanted perspective on 1x gap jumps. Some cassettes are more easily spaced from say 11-46 and some only have the big jumps at the end. New to biking since my teens and figuring out the best setup for my current options. I was thinking I’d prefer them evenly spaced and now i know I’d actually prefer all the big jumps with the bigger cogs due to how i remember riding long ago. Appreciate my man! Great vid!