Are Hollow Points Obsolete? Underwood Xtreme Defender .45 ACP VS .44 Special
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Testing the Underwood Xtreme Defender in .45 ACP (135 gr rated at 1,240 FPS) VS the Underwood Xtreme Defender in .44 Special (125 gr rated at 1,250 FPS) in a 10% Clear Ballistics gel test. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
![ทางเดินชีวิต - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ x อ.ไข่ มาลีฮวนน่า [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1f3wcG16dd4/mqdefault.jpg)
So this is going to be a pinned comment on every video I do from now on, the reason is because of the constant trolling I get over the SAME subject. My loyal subscribers act like I should just ignore comments like this, however what they do not realize is that a content creator has access to all their comments in one place and creators often respond to them all from one page. When every other comment is the same it wastes my time responding, so I am writing up this automated response specifically so I CAN easily ignore those comments and answer real comments.
First of all, I am a ballistic tester, not a competition shooter nor do I give advice on how to shoot properly. This is not a "learn how to shoot" channel. The comment I get maybe 20 times a day collectively throughout my channel in some form is: "bro you need to not wrap your support thumb over you strong thumb, you NEED to push that thumb forward".
My response is this:
1. It's called low thumbs, it is a proper grip that has been used for decades. Not knowing of it only shows your own ignorance.
2. I did not ask for your advice
3. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and I use what grip is most comfortable to me.
4. I shoot revolvers as much as semi autos, getting into the habit of going straight thumbs is asking to have my thumb blown off
5. Watch some LE defensive shooting videos, 95% of the cops in those videos use the same grip I do because going from two handed to one, such as to use the radio or needing that weak hand in some way is likely to happen on a real defensive situation. If you have your strong hand thumb over your weak hand thumb and need that weak hand, you basically are going to end up doing what I do, but I do it from the beginning and train that way because I am NOT a competition shooter. I train for defensive situations, not scoring.
6. If you do comment on my 'wrong' grip technique, I require that comment to include video evidence of you using thumbs forward grip, and you shooting significantly better than me with it, including view of the target. No link in your comment results in automatic deletion of comment. It's that simple.
For someone with rheumatoid arthritis you shoot well as can be expected and even better, your ballistics tests are informative and well explained. Don't let the trolls get to you, they'll always be some in every comment section.
Finally, someone else is saying it on YT. It's bugged me for years they were telling people there was some magic fluid dynamics on these things due to those tip grooves. The slow motion video at 100000 fps shows what it does. Andrew at ARFCOM also shot meat with an HST and an Xtreme defender. The HST did what it always does and exited the meat as a flying mushroom, the Xtreme D could be seen tumbling as it exited. It's not that these bullets don't work, it just they lied about how they work, which is pretty lame.
In the very slow motion videos I have seen, these work as advertised in gel with various barriers. Often you see them turned backwards in the gel at the end of their path. In all of the videos I have seen they tumble at the very end of the path right before they stop.
The better source of footage of the Xtreme Defender through gel at 50,000 frames per second slow motion is here: th-cam.com/video/sxRqYPpDCZU/w-d-xo.html Some people insist that the tumbling is only a clear gel phenomenon, however that doesn't necessarily make logical sense to me as any soft fleshy material should act similarly against this bullet, plus if that were the case than how in the world do I have so many tests with other bullet styles that show no evidence of tumbling?
For further consideration...45 acp in Ballistic Torso: th-cam.com/video/EvVLGGtVMzQ/w-d-xo.html from Ballistic High Speed as the other video posted and from Iraq Veteran 8888...45 Underwood Fluid Transfer Monolithic Xtreme Defender Ammunition: th-cam.com/video/UV_1zXdDf4Y/w-d-xo.html
@GunSam , Hey, long time. Still follow and always enjoy. A suggestion idea: how about initating a series where you compare/contrast the resulting recent "best" (or "in favor") **Modern** take/approaches on any given bullet and compare it to the most proven, popular, bullet technology of old. From historic stats or even Fudd lore?
Agreed. We need a high-speed footage test of XD's through porcine gel. I know that through the non-live meat, they don't appear to yaw. Nor do they yaw very often through plates and books...at least from my tests (the 90g +P+ did a couple of times).
Here's another good source of porcine gel testing. th-cam.com/video/sxRqYPpDCZU/w-d-xo.html
Tumbling is good, for defence...
Here's a meat test done by TFB TV 3 years ago showing the Xtreme Defender did better than a Federal HST. Not sure what more someone needs to prove that these rounds will give at least as much damage as a hollow point, do that damage at a deeper point, and will not deform near as much through barriers. This test was done by someone who was EXTREMELY skeptical of the magic flutes. th-cam.com/video/FWgXc9L9vx0/w-d-xo.html
I struggled choosing to carry this over hst, but I do now. Not arguing against opponents of this for carry, since I was one too and see the logic in not carrying it. Here’s why I do, in case this helps anyone make an objective decision: 1. It lacks street proven results, but deer and boars have been downed by this ammo reliably, and often with a single well-placed shot. I consider an animal like a white tail a decently close parallel of a human, when it comes to bullet wounding characteristics being tested. 2. Some videos like this and TFB TV demonstrate pretty severe wounding channels, mostly gel testing exists but some meat tests too. I’ve only seen it disappoint in GunSam’s bologna and water jugs test, a reason I took longer to come around to this ammo. 3. No risk of a hollow point getting plugged up, consistent penetration and wounding then. 4. Generally more energy at the muzzle/on target than traditional JHP competitors, since it’s a copper bullet and goes faster as a result. This matters. 5. Good barrier blindness, you never know when you might need that. Other ammo can offer that too. But I like what Xtreme defender collectively offers people. It’s like a buck a round (with a coupon code online, you can mostly remove shipping cost) so not terribly expensive-there’s costlier hollow point ammo for sure.
Thanks for this test. Pretty good consistent performance, I always wondered how consistent they are at range (my local range is short). My favorite thing about these is them not having a flat front so they feed more reliably out of my magazines and it did look like they ran well out of your glock too.
It's my go-to projectile these days. Can't complain about the performance and consistency.
Great review as usual. I carry a Sig P224 in 357 Sig loaded with 65 gr Underwood Extreme Defenders. I clocked that round out of that pistol at 2124 fps and out of my 357 Sig P226 at over 2200 fps. I originally switched to that round after the truck attack in Nice, France. I wanted something that had a better chance of punching through a vehicle door or windshield. Some of the magazines also have the 50 gr Liberty Defense ammo rated at 2300 fps and Grizzly Ammo 90gr 1900 fps. These are very high velocities for pistol rounds. No way of knowing for sure, but I'm betting on hydrostatic shock at those velocities. I've seen videos of 10mm Extreme Penetrators shooting through body armor and bulletproof glass. I have the Extreme Defenders in other calibers, but I'm not sure you get the advantages of the flutes at lower velocities, but the solid copper construction of the Extreme bullets are definitely more durable when it comes to barrier penetration.
GS. Another good video and interesting comparison. Great shooting and long-range plinking. My plinking is from a much much closer distance. Thanks for sharing and take care.
A lot of 45 jhp can overexpand and come up short. 45 Xtreme defender is impressive for sure 👍
I saw the ultra slow motion video of the fluted copper solids as well. You were right to be skeptical of the claims about flutes causing damage through "hydraulic displacement." The bullet design turns out, it appears, to be just a consistent tumbler. Though, by the same token, a consistent tumbler is a very effective bullet design (as Fort Scott "TUI" bullet design has demonstrated, and, now, as hundreds of previous Xtreme Defender gel tests demonstrate). We now know the damage we see in gel isn't attributable to "hydraulic displacement," a claim which could be doubted and/or dismissed as mere "gel effects." The tumbling damage we see in the gel from fluted copper solids is just as real as the damage we see from hollow points, for no one doubts that tumbling and expansion are both obviously effective tissue-tearing processes/mechanisms. So the damage was real. The marketing was not. One extra-special value of a consistent tumbler is for short-barrel pocket pistols and micro-pistols chambered in "under-powered" calibers. Think LCP 380. Many 380 hollow points won't reliably reach expansion velocities out of a 2.75-inch barrel. Turning, instead, to FMJ risks over-penetration. (If FMJs don't just by chance happen to tumble, they often seem to just zip line through 20-inches of gel, not only over-penetrating but leaving a minimalist, pen-line damage channel.) But turning to a consistent tumbler makes a lot of sense, reliably creating comparable damage as a hollow point (and, in some cases, arguably greater damage, or more desirable damage deeper in the gel), but without the greater risks of over-penetration had with an FMJ. I don't put any hollow points--no matter the brand or bullet design or velocity printed on the box--in my LCP 380 magazines. All those magazines are full of Underwood Xtreme Defenders. From all the gel test videos I've seen of Xtreme Defender 380s, (1) I've never seen them get less than 12 inches, (2) I've never seen them get more than 16 inches, and (3) they consistently create a very respectable damage channel. That's a high-performing consistent tumbler.
I like these fluted rounds from Underwood. I will be using the Xtreme Penetrator 200 grain +P 45 acp for woods now.
Yes, I carry their 45 super xtreme defenders. Screaming at 1580 fps from a USP Elite.
@@touofthehighplains
Is it good to use in glock 30?
@@jamalliwalug6639 You probably would need to increase your recoil spring weight to be on the safe side. So the gun didn't beat itself to death. Underwood also has a less spicy version that should be safe with your factory spring.
Apart from lackluster real world performance, the projectiles themselves are really expensive. Price really matters if you want to practice at least a little bit with what you carry. It would also be nice if they hit point of aim.
I mean, they are a real steal at $57.00 for 20 rounds of these .44 Special. Underwood is good at stealing.
😂@@GunSam
I'd like to see a street track record before I get all tingly over them.
Any agency issuing these?
copper cost more than steel, only buy when on sale and use + p or +p+
my bad I meant to say lead not steel ,any way I have seen some autopsies of animals shot it was not pretty, but they were moving much faster.
I like the Extreme Defender projectile for smaller, slower calibers. I keep them in my 380 because there is no 380 hollow point I've seen that behaves consistently through clothing.
These are a great option for 380. The only two hollow points in 380 I have seen in other videos ir my own tests that perform pretty well is the Corbon DPX 80 grain solid copper hollow point and the newer Federal Hydra-shok Deep 99 grain. JHP. all the others were not consistent in the micro pistols like the Ruger LCP, etc.
Hi gun Sam awsome as always. I carry 45acp. . I love my Colt 1911. Im old school. But this video was awsome. Im going to try this round in my Colt. God bless.😊
I saw something recently that the Army was going to acquire some in 9mm. I have been unable to confirm that, but it was interesting.
It's true the Naval Surface Warfare Center just awarded a $30 million contract to black hills for these. But underwood tends to load them hotter.
@@touofthehighplains Thank you for the confirmation.
I also think Wilson got a new military contract with these and in different calibers- I’m slow in finding the article
@JohnLee-jk5ew Wilson owns Lehigh so they would have to supply at least the projectiles. They sell loaded ammo, but I don't know if they could handle military quantities.
The news doesn't specify what was selected.
👍 Thank you for explaining what exactly is going on with these Phillips Screwdriver tip bullets. I read in the past that ballistics gelatin was designed primarily to discover the expansion and penetration of bullets. So, with these particular bullets I was uncertain if the tearing of the gelatin was an accurate indicator of what would happen in flesh. If they are tumbling, that is a good thing which definitely increases damage potential beyond FMJ that doesn't. Especially for calibers(like the .380 ACP you mentioned) that have great difficulty with hollow points expanding and reaching past the 12" mark. So, the big question for this type of bullet is.. how reliably do they tumble?
Those things always look to me like they would have problems with the feed ramp. Apparently not
The lighter and faster xtreme defenders perform better and disturb the gel more and better wound cavity.
I carry glock 20 with Underwood 10 mm 115 gr defender at 1,800 fps it defeats 3a armor and 12 inches of gel I tested this last week I shot vest 12 timed and all went thru
NICE!!, I keep something similar, in my Glock 22, light grained "Defender", screaming fast, and very barrier blind. It's no joke, indeed ☠.
Wonder how 357 sig would do...
@@FoulPet
With a longer barrel you can get over 2,000 fps. Explosive results.
Was the gell disruption similar to a 40s@w fmj?
You can get glock 20 hunting barrel 6.5 inch
These rounds have there place for sure. They'll do the deal if shot placement is done correctly. Especially in dangerous game territory or bad guys.
Hear it’s good on E Tennessee black bears
A plus brother you are the first person that I've heard give it credit for tumbling and not the fluid transfer monolithic blah blah blah, I carry the extreme Defender only because in pistol ammunition you need penetration so it is a straight line penetrates deep consistently through hard barriers
That was informative... good stuff...
For airgun hunting you can buy .25 but 22mm long lead slugs. They kill pritty good and i guess its just because of the tumbling after penetration cause the internals have much bigger damage then the .25 entry hole. Just like you shown today.
Sometime could you let us know what a Gun Sam or Sam means. I tried to look it up but nothing could be found . Thanks for you hard work. You are my favorite channel. Keep on plinking.
Doesn't really mean anything. When I started my channel in 2007, I had random names like my email name and whatnot, then I think about 10-12 years ago I named it something like 'Sam Man' and I went through a bunch of changes. I went from Sam Man to 'Gun Sam' sometime around 2016 if I recall because my nephew suggested it, so I was like whatever. Then probably around 2017 I belonged to some "Revolver Aficionados" forum or FB page, thought it sounded cool so I married the names, had no intention to keep it long term. Then in 2018 I think it was, Paul Harrell mentioned "Gun Sam Revolver Aficionado" in one of his videos, and I got a ton of subs all at once, so I left it alone since.
Love those S&W tin signs, going to have to pick some up for myself.
The only ammo I use anymore.. its the perfect balance..
Would you be willing to shoot a 9mm ball round as well so we have a control when you do tests like this?
Looks great to me. Thanks for the video.
Great video as always thanks bro!
great videos Sam
Thanks
If the Phillips head rounds are tumbling on impact, then they are behaving in a manner similar to the first M16s used in Vietnam. The 1:14 twist barrels used on the early rifles barely stabilized the 55 grain projectiles, and when combined with their high velocities, these bullets produced some grievous wounds. However, I seriously doubt this level of damage would be possible with pistol velocities.
If tumbling is occurring then it doesn't care about whether it's pistol velocity or rifle velocity. It already tumbled
@@jason200912 There's tumbling at pistol velocities and there's tumbling at rifle velocities. The latter imparts far more energy and destructive force. Ideally, the round should enter the target at 2500 fps or higher to better ensure tumbling occurs.
@@Paladin1873 both make holes the length of the bullet. The higher velocity just ensures it has plenty of energy to keep going through more things behind the target
@@jason200912 No, it does much more than this. There is a massive energy dump associated with a fast-moving tumbling 5.56 projectile that produces a grievous wound channel. If this were not the case, we might as well arm our troops with 60 grain 22LR ammo and let the round tumble inside the enemy. Some of these early effects were reduced when the Army switched to faster rifling twists, heavier bullets, and shorter barrels. When we factor in the much longer engagement ranges of the last two decades, the probability of tumbling and shock effect is only further decreased, hence the ongoing effort to improve ammunition performance.
Part of me wonders in the solid copper bullet fad is even worth it. Sometimes those bullets are too hard to expand and they are just outright overpriced. A standard bonded jhp is a proven design.
Also, I have the Underwood 245gr flat nose 44 special and I think I'd rather use that over the XD rounds if we're talking just the two.
Don't like relying on tumbling. They don't track straight. Your evaluation pretty much summed up these bullets.
👍😊 the Glock was spot on that day. The specials good with an adjustment if that’s what you want.
I have noticed that since I got the Glock in 2018, this specific long-slide model has pretty much never malfunctioned or been hard to shoot well with .45 ACP ammo, standard pressure. It's the +P stuff and especially 10mm and .45 Super conversions I do that cause it to not run or shoot right.
@@GunSam it was money that day and the special wasn’t bad except the hold off .
For the tumbling I think they still have a better potential for damage compered to fmj because of their shape. I also have seen these on "Ballistic High-Speed" . It would be interesting to see what these very light high velocity loads from underwood would do like the 68gr 9mm 1700fps. Or a 65gr 357 Sig rated with 2100fps!!! I have seen it on organic gel and there it was devestating. But in organic gel also hp look much better because you will have more strech cavity. In synthetic gel they all look quite simular without big damage.
Im guessing light for caliber are super short which in turn leads to terrible ballistic coefficients. You should expect massive tumbling. Thats a guess from handloader. I would not want light for caliber in a rifle but in a pistol? Sure why not.
Edit: yet again i commented before i watched. Great video thumbs up.
For further consideration...45 acp in Ballistic Torso: th-cam.com/video/EvVLGGtVMzQ/w-d-xo.html from Ballistic High Speed as the other video posted and from Iraq Veteran 8888...45 Underwood Fluid Transfer Monolithic Xtreme Defender Ammunition: th-cam.com/video/UV_1zXdDf4Y/w-d-xo.html
Thank you. Both videos are more along the lines of my experience with the XD. We’ve done just about every test you can do on this ammo over the years from gel test to barriers and the results have been fairly consistent. People need to run what works for them.
Fine shooting as ever. This is not the first time I've seen a particular round need an adjusted point of aim but I genuinely struggle to understand why. Sure, even I can understand certain rounds shooting high or low (duh!) but, say in this particular case the 'projections' on the front of the bullet, having spin, introduce some sort of pressure that literally causes the bullet to curve left or right?
I could believe my own 'half-assed' theory except that similar rounds from the Glock shot true.
I'm all confused now, dammit!
If the world is round, then how come so many people live in flats?
These things bother me. Gotta go, time for my medication.
Pax
Opinion on if you are using a compact or subcompact .45 where you are generally not going to achieve enough muzzle velocity to get hollow points to expand? Would these be superior in that case?
I have seen some 230 gr .45 ACP ammo achieve hollow point expansion even at 800 FPS, because the energy is there. But in general, you can simply fix the consistency of expansion to expand most of the time by just going with a 185 gr JHP in a shorter barrel.
i also kinda like a regular round nose tumbling through target.
But consistently doing it every time.
@@rogerwood5228 round nose typically tumble, flat nose not so much.
Two really good Underwood Extreme Defender tests:
th-cam.com/video/sxRqYPpDCZU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ISMlvWzF6W3x2ess
th-cam.com/video/ClJcJ8LQFbQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=6WKTaMSkHa7MNs1P
Other non-lead external hollowpoint style ammo options would be G9 Defense EHP and Black Hills Honeybadger.
I'm going to say that hollowpoints are supreme, especially in copper. I'd take a Barnes XPB any day over these Lehigh Defense projectiles.
You really were correct with your assessment: Smoke and mirrors. The performance is not what they claim it to be. I would say it's better than FMJ, but not even close to a good hollow point. I'll pass.
Great work 👍
Gun Sam please do a video with winchester 230 pdx bonded hollow point. Out of 45 acp. I watched a video where they were shooting though a cows head. And into jell blocks. Thats what i carry in town. 230 fmj in the woods. 😊
When it comes to 45acp, hollow points are obsolete now that there are fluted bullets available. I think the biggest issue is that Ruger has a patent to a nore perfect design, the ARX style bullet. If those were in solid copper that would be great. The lehigh style are not that great, but something is better than nothing. The future will see a great revolution when Ruger's patent expires.
Hi Sam, I asked this same question to Tools & Targets recently, and I'll ask you as I'm gathering feedback for future reference.
Out of all the ammo types you test across all calibers (Gold Dot, HST, Critical Duty/Defense, etc.), which one, based upon your extensive testing, is the most consistent performer across the board?
Thanks!
In my opinion, it's all caliber/cartridge specific as different power levels or velocity levels need different bullet construction to work effectively. So it's hard for me to say an across the board answer. Now if we are talking 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and so on, I think that Federal HST is the most consistent performer. I keep my carry .327 Federal Magnum snubby loaded with Federal HST as well as my truck gun with .40 S&W 165 gr HST. So that's my main answer. If we are talking less powerful or slower rounds like .380 ACP or typical .38 Special, I feel like some of the old school Federal Hydrashok is some of the better ammo, but Gold Dot does decent as well. Also Critical Defense is good in weaker cartridges. But my main go-to is Federal HST if it's a duty-power handgun.
@@GunSam That's the same general conclusion T&T made: HST. I appreciate the feedback greatly! Thanks for taking the time to respond!
Good day, Sir!
What a Title !!!
Staying with critical duty in my full size 9mm.😊
I'm Not Impressed with these , a Fad round just like when the G 2 R I P rounds came out. I'll stick with lead, Thanks for the video though. Saved me a lot of money.
Good job Sam.Are you getting
The pt. Of impact with your
with your carry hollow pts.Same44 special at longer distance
I like the Fort Scott TUI for 45acp and 380acp cause you don’t need a lot of speed To cause alot of damage. 👍🏻
No. I seem to remember a 45 test you did with Underwood I think, 185g? It was as fast as this stuff, a lot more energy and destruction.
In .38 special non-plus-P, using a snub nosed revolver, would Underwood 38 SPECIAL 150GR. WADCUTTER be better than Underwood 38 SPECIAL 100GR. XTREME DEFENDER? I don't care about over-pentation. With that caliber under-penetration is the concern I have. (Hollow points aren't good in that gun type.)
Until these show up in stores, no!!
I have seen them in a couple local stores.
@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549cheaper to buy 99% of ammo online
The Naval Surface Warfare Center just gave black hills a $30 million contract for these.
would you argue the G9 performs better?
Or something about these that would make a person still choose, instead?
Sam, Im so glad you mentioned bbl length of a rev. & bbl length of a auto loader. It had to be addressed...auto loader bbl is bbl assy. + chamber....p s...I saw a yt vid, of 9mm 147 sub sonic, using a 16" PCC it cleared thru 4 blocks of gel...the dude fired 4 rds, 3 cleared 64" of gel....1 rd was 2" from the end of the 4th block..Stay safe.
The people squawking about you shooting at 75 yards are probably the ones making buckshot patterns at 7 yards. Besides, we should be talking more about hunting since it’s something we can actually have shots in every year. Get good enough at hunting distances and self-defense accuracy is taken care of.
I’d like to see that with the grind hard 111gr 45acp. I chronographed it from a 5” at 1700fps. My 3” micro did 1500.
the only thing xtreme imo is the price..
Oh splendid, YT is auto-deleting my comments again.
I know of this one, but I haven't went through them all. It does it to me as well. Some channels more than others. I have never gotten a comment to stick on Lucky Gunner or Wilson Combat. Always vanish immediately for some reason.
I experience the exact same thing quite often myself. Mostly like most people here. We speak our minds. Which is the opposite of. Politically correct liberal thisss.
Yea I had Two kind of vanish Some one Ask If I wanted to say that I said yes . So Explain that to me then way ask.
It's Darpa technology Google-based algorithms, killing Constitutional freedom by programming math.
Verboten words will have your comments snuffed out. I found a page that shows YT has deleted over a billion comments on their platform in ONE QUARTER world-wide.
That’s weird my .45 XD’s are 120 grn +p 1350 fps
Speer Gold Dot and Federal Punch for me
.357 125 JHP. END DISCUSSION
Am I wrong or are these roughly compatible to a +P 9mm round?
Didn't think them bullets were supposed to tumble?
👍
They should. Useless round unless you think your target is going to stay still like your gel block...
No real need , what is the cost vs conventional SWHP
I recall that .44 Special being $57.99/20. The .45 ACP was a tad less.
Sam did a test of good 44 sp SWC HP was Far better than most factory 44sp ammo . Lots of good quality 45 acp HPs also tested here . For $3 / round by the time you shot enough to depend on them , you could buy a loading set up & custom load the best bullets @ the Vel that works . 44 sp is made for handloading . @@jmichaelcarbonniere9549
No thanks. Poor choice for penetrating barriers. Erratic behavior and too much emphasis on a temporary wound channel.
Definately a nasty wound, but not my preference. Hydro static shock is not a factor in these handgun bullets. I'd rather use a LSWC bulletin .44 Special, or 230 grain hard ball in .45ACP.
What the what ... hell no !
Recorded today, wanted to release today! I planned a Patreon release but no time.
No my issue is ... I'm a lead head ! @@GunSam
HEY SAM HOW DO YOU LIKE THE SMITH 69 ?
Yes, I wanted one exactly in this configuration since 2014, then in 2020 finally got one. It's a great revolver and has a better double action trigger than my 686.
I never understood why people carry 45 ACP I get that it has a little bit more recoil on the shooters in but you don't get about 400 foot pounds of energy on the other end, the 10 mm is about the same recoil to the shooter put delivering about 700 ft lb to the other end
I'm pretty much guaranteed expansion on the 10ml versus the 45acp that you're most likely better carrying an FMJ or an extreme defender or penetrator the only one bullet I'll give credit to is the federal HST and 45 ACP
@@franklinmarks7845I think in 45acp a 118gn ARX are best. In +P the 185gn bonded hollow point are great. In 45super the 135gn 45super work great apart from 255gn hardcasts for bear. Handloads are better any hotter into 460R pressures, 250gn XTP are awesome at 1300fps. The ARX should be amazing at 2000fps. 200gn Xtreme Penetrators are 1400fps from Underwood and Lehigh sell 190gn Xtreme Defenders that no one loads.
Friends don't let friends carry Screwdrivers unless they live in a Crappy State & Should move! Compare to the 9mm Silvertip, 9bple, HST, 124+P Gold Dot & .40 WWB, Corbon, Gold Dot, HST I test tomorrow morning in the Debut of "The Modern Meat Target" remaking Paul Harrell's 1st Ever Meat Target vid "Is Hyper Ammo more Effective than Regular Ammo?"
I still remember my ninja books always said you should learn to throw screwdrivers as efficiently as shurikens, because they are legal to carry lol
@@GunSam I snuck up and "disappeared " behind Ninja Steven K Hayes by 2 counter turn steps at the Arnold Classic....true story
Bump
Is it just me, or has Underwood really been watering down their ammo lately?
Jury's still out on those types of bullets for me, leaning toward meh. There are people who know more than me on both sides of the debate. I agree that there is some "magic" attributed to their performance. The fluting, imo, only serves to slow the projectile, & the damage is from tumbling. Now, that being said, some hunters have said that they create nasty wounds in animals. Either way, I'm not going to hurry to restock all of my ammo. My assorted jhp's & lswchp's all perform just fine.
For me, it depends on use case. The truck gun has them...as iraqiveteran8888 showed, they go through auto glass and doors more consistently. If no company at home, then the home gun has them...penetrate walls without clogging. If I'm concerned about overpenetration, then maybe HST or Liberty.
Algorithm
You really don't know anything about ballistics do you Sam you don't know why the 45 ACP has more recoil than a 44 special, let me enlighten yo, the 45 AC pills a higher pressure round, the ammo you're using is a heavier grain bullet therefore you're going to have more recoil Sam
I agree with jmichaelcarbonniere9549. My experience shows that they didn't appear to tumble in the meat tests I performed a few years back. The holes were 5/8-1" in diameter and consistent throughout with striations that matched the flutes. They performed exactly the same way through books and plates for me...only the 90g 9mm occasionally tumbled (and I think it's the longest).
If they are yawing every time like the Ballistic High-Speed guys showed, then like another person mentioned in these comments, that's good given the velocity of these rounds. 1400 is about the slowest I've seen for Underwood (minus the 45 XP), with some rated up to 2100fps (65g 357 sig). HST is about 1000-1100fps at best.
In the second link I've attached, you can see the difference in the meat tests between Underwood Xtreme Defender and Fort Scott TUI. There's really no comparison. Although the TUI's tumble sections did have a slightly larger bulb of disruption, it only was about 1.5-2" long. When you compare that to the rest of the TUI wound where I could barely get a pinky finger through, the consistency of the XD was superior in my opinion.
www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/joint-agency-ballistics-test-for-defensive-handgun-ammo.844285/page-4 ... www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/joint-agency-ballistics-test-for-defensive-handgun-ammo.844285/page-5
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Interesting test. Thanks for the video
I hope you're not trying to say that the 44 special is more powerful than the 45 AC
You shut the 44 special in the same path also the bullet was tumbling that's the only reason you have that big of a damaged path why don't you try being honest with your viewers
You aren't very bright. Is the gel block 6" tall but only 1" wide? Perhaps what is really going on is a bullet is a couple inches to the right of the last path and not seen due to parallax, and some idiot decided to make a comment they thought was witty, but exposed themselves are remarkably dumb. Perhaps?
👍