Knife Batoning... the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2019
- #wcknives #williamcollinsknives #knivesmadetowork #batoning #bushcraft
Share my opinion on batoning a knife. Discuss and show proper technique, how it effects the steel, demonstrate alternate methods, and when is it acceptable.
www.wcknives.com - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
This is the best explication I have heard. You are correct. I am 67 years old and grew up in the woods. I was never taught or saw anyone beat on a knife until I saw it on TH-cam. My grandfather and dad would have smacked up the backside of my head if the saw me baton. Lol We always carried a hatchet for such things.
BTW: we miss your whittle talks......
Blessings. ....
Levi Caddell I miss the whittle talks too
is that when your cousin Judy was totein your junk through the jungles?
Batoning a knife should only be used in an emergency situation. If considering long term survival scenarios, better equipment is available for wood processing. If keeping your pack weight lite is a primary consideration, a wrecking knife/chisel knife would work quite well with a small saw. The Stanley wrecking knife would be my go to.
Of course such suggestions are only for extreme survival scenarios. It's obvious there are far better ways to process wood.
I really appreciate your input on batoning. This is the first I've ever heard of harmonic vibrations in regards to batoning, makes a lot of sense. I have some comments thou. I'm 65 years old and I started batoning when I was 13, shortly after I got a beat up old Case sheath knife from an Uncle. Had know idea it was called batoning. I never saw anyone doing it, just seemed natural thing to do. Reading other peoples comments I'm surprised others didn't come up with the idea, seemed very intuitive. I was given an Estwing hatchet when I was 9, that really scared me. Saw a lot of accidents when others used hatchets. I never had an ax until I was 21. My Dad had an ax with a 3 lb. head and 30 inch handle, definitely too big and heavy for me to pack in as a kid. When I finally got an ax I got one with a 1 1/2 lb head and 19" handle, certainly more packable. I've never broken a knife or been injured while batoning, but you have certainly given me something to think about. As someone who has been batoning for 52 years it could be a hard habit to break. Thanks for your knowledge.
I get it, splitting small diameter wood for kindling, we did it all the time, carpentry/construction background even as a kid. These youtube videos where they are beating the hell out of a knife to split some huge LOG is nutty to me. I am going to assume the battoning most folks are incredulous of are these Log splitters.
now I am remembering those hardware store, you know what I mean, the sawdust on the wood floor, bins of various bolts nuts etc and that really cool display case on a counter with a knife you really need! A ten year old kid with cash in his pocket rides his bike to the local Hardware store, paper route and working with Dad and Uncles at a construction site picking up lumber and handing it up , cutting with a circular saw, trying to drag up that plywood sheet to the ladder for them to grab, fond memories just came rushing back.
should have mentioned, am 61 myself, thus 'I get it' response.
I was terrified of the axe, a big felling axe. I was the hatchet kid splitting kindling during camping. Only popped myself in the back of the head once because of the fire pit smoke got in my eyes, Only needed three stitches!
@@ed5042 Yeah, ususally I baton 1"-3" pieces. Never even thought about "logs" that I see some try to go through on youtube vids. I wasn't even thinking about "batoning" I did on the job, most of that was even smaller pieces.
Great video and sound advise .Totally agree. Batoning with a knife is unnecessary;that's what a hatchet is for. Thanks for sharing.
Good information on the vibration and failure. Like you said I also had never heard of battoning until here on you tube. Why you would take a knife of any price range and expect it to split wood is crazy.
well done sir..sound wisdom
Great info! Thanks for sharing!
Retired firefighter here and we always differentiated between a cutting tool and a striking tool. You have done an excellent job of describing why they are different tools. Rope, bandages, clothing/leather/denim, seat belts these were things we might cut, everything else we beat the snot out of with an axe, Halligan/hooligan, sledge. lol
A story some might appreciate.
I was a fairly young firefighter in the early 90's for Bloomington Illinois and we had a rather large junk yard fire. I noticed that when water was introduced to the fire it flared up, which told me that it probably had some magnesium in the fire. I grabbed a long pike pole out of the truck company's bed (These had fiberglass handles for protection against electricity, in case we were on a car vs downed pole scenario) and sent the pole into the fire, hooked the magnesium car wheel and drug it out of the fire so we could hit it with an extinguisher. Well, it melted the pole behind the pike and the Truck Engineer started chewing my butt in front of the Assistant Chief for damaging his equipment. My response was "Thats the cost of doing business." Which the Engineer didn't approve of but the Assistant Chief chuckled and repeated back to me with a wink. Sometimes a thing is just a thing or a tool is just a tool and we're gonna abuse it if the situation is dire enough.
That being said, I've never baton'd wood, except to say that I've done it a couple of times. It just hasn't been worth "The cost of doing business" for me to go crazy doing it yet. ;)
Thanks for the teaching 👍
thanks for the video. I grew up in the60's70's, buck folders were the 'it', we carried, like you, a hatchet of some kind for the splitting. If we forgot the hatchet (usually a carpenters hatchet!) we would do the 'just feed the wood into the fire' thing and we got the same results. thanks for the video again!
Thank you for the insights on this. If I were ever in an actual survival situation my knife would be one of the most important items I would try to keep intact.
I've never seen the need to beat on a knife or hit it with a rock to throw sparks!
How many times have people broken the tip off of their knife by hitting it wrong or abusing it in some way? I normally carry a knife designed for chopping and a smaller knife designed for fine work. So far I can do just about everything I need with those two. If I had to cut larger pieces and I didn't have an axe I would rather cut and notch my way through it rather than baton my way through it. I know a lot of people like to baton and haven't had a problem doing so but if that knife were all you had to survive with for an undetermined amount of time would you still baton with it?
I think TH-cam battoning was invented to test the durability of said knife.. and developed into an actual practice from there. It was not originally intended to develop into an everday camping practice, but it has become that.
Chris Sproles probably but IMHO that is a misconception of the Knives durability. The micro crack could have occurred but not have a complete failure until the next batoning attempt or the next 15th attempt. Trying to pass on what I have learned and a word of caution.
William, thanks for sharing, atb
Dude! Man! i am totally in your camp on this one. i am totally anti batoning unless a dire emergency and there is no other choice. YES you said axes and Froe. Right on! WC man i knew i could count on you for the proper science and metallurgy. i think the only guy that can guarantee his steel is a Japanese sword maker who smelted the ore down as he began making the sword separating the occurring steel by property. What a great talk.. PERFECT.. i am going to memorize this one .. thanks for sharing the information.. this lends to my batoning dissertation. thanks for your love of knives J
Nit pick. Modern Japanese sword makers buy the Tamahagane from Hitachi. And another youtuber argue that if you are in an emergency situation, why risk breaking your knife by batoning?
@@1968gadgetyo what?? the traditinal maker smelts the steel himself, i never said modern. the industrial maker uses commercial steel, the master tradtional maker only uses a stone to file and sharpen, the industrail maker uses machines. did you read what i wrote. "smelts the steel him self and has apprentices hammer the ingot. i refer you to this th-cam.com/video/gxwWf-MfZVk/w-d-xo.html
in addition keep the baton away from your knife. the knife, and cutting board are sacred for a reason, the edge is the the most important part of your knife if you dont know how to treat it you are in a world of hurt.. in every pack and vehicle i keep an ax, a saw and a knife.. if i have to relay on my knife alone there is plenty of small wood to burn that i don't have to baton a log.
@@jeffnotti9932 Actually no. It's too big and complicated for a blacksmith to make tha tatara (furnace). The blacksmith most like will buy the Tamahagane. I watch that video years ago, It did not mentioned how the Tamahagane was made. Only how the blacksmith refine it by repeated folding to remove the excess carbon.
@@1968gadgetyo i think you are missing the point here.
@@1968gadgetyo carefully chosen tamhagane , not a commercial steel, the sword maker just dose not go to mitsubushi's amazon page to get his tamahagane. I also never mentioned blacksmith-ing. but you are still missing the point totally. this is an argument about guaranteeing the steel, if you made the steel your self you can guarantee it, if you have commercial steel you can guarantee only your work, not the steel. Why are we going so down the $#!77er on this.. and actually yes, you made and repeated my point in differing words.
William I am a professional counter top man. The only knife I ever broke the blade on was my Puma lockback work knife. I was removing an end cap on the finished end of a laminate countertop. I was barely tapping the blade to separate the laminate from the end of the top and the blade just snapped. Proving everything you are saying about harmonics. It was a great knife before that. I learned to use a sharped putty knife. No big deal if it breaks, and I can get the job done. I like using my hatchets to process wood, a good skill to have. Tennessee
Great video Sir .
Before going off into my rant, I own five of your blades, and can tell you right now, unless it was absolutely necessary, I ain't going to be banging on any of them. You and I grew up in the same east Texas woods and the only thing I knew about a baton was from watching our high school majorette. With that said, you are correct about youtube. TH-cam has hundreds of youtube movie stars, wearing $300 britches, demonstrating and selling their woodscraft skills to basement dwelling would be mountain man ninja's. TH-cam is the ultimate regurgitation of false information in the so called "bushcraft" community, and the "bushcraft" community is inundated with incest. Proper tools for a specific task is the name of the game, and this is how it should be taught. Bushcraft is not ultralight hiking where a person who enjoys that activity debates whether they will carry just one sock to save weight. It my opinion it starts with these youtube movie stars teaching people that they MUST build the picture perfect firelay and feather sticks must look perfect. That is just another example of youtube incest. Making a fire is not rocket science, even a caveman could do it. As a retired civil engineer, I understand the physics in strength of materials and harmonics, however, the best way to teach this stuff to people who live in concrete jungles is to just say "do not bang on your knife". Then they can follow up by teaching using proper tools required for specific tasks if their students want to be the next Jim Bridger.
Robert31352
Very well said...!
Very well said indeed
Great vid, thanks, need to see you getting back out into the woods.
Hi William,
3:34 As to your question "why baton it?", I think their reason (what I've seen) is to expose a long, straight, knot-free piece of soft wood material that you can slice for very fine curls, small/fine enough to take a ferro-rod spark and ignite the curl. This ability is taken to extreme lengths whereby they even compete to see who of them can produce "feathers" with the most "twists" in it. It seems to have become a very specialised "craft" or skill set, highly prized among bushcrafters. Now, for me that is fine and laudable, within the inner circle of adherents. The problem is it has spiraled out into the broader knife community to become a standard by which knives are measured for use in the wilderness. It's almost as if a knife is junk if it can't make those fine curls and feathersticks that measure up to their exacting standards. In order to do so the Scandi grind tool has become the current standard, as that seems to be the best way to achieve the featherstick/curls standard, so it itself (ie scandi grind) has become the standard for bushcrafting knives. An example of this is the new Venture Knife released recently by Victorinox as a new venture into the bushcraft arena. I have seen numerous reviews where the knife's full flat grind is immediately deplored as it's not a Scandi, thus not a serious contender, without even putting it to a single piece of wood.
4:29 Proper technique: surely the first step is to seek and select a piece of wood that is the most appropriate for the job/task at hand. In the video, the wood selected is knotty and doesn't look suitable for splitting into anything useful (except firewood). The fatigue thing is a real issue, true.
I've developed a little formula that I apply to a situation where batoning MAY be required and when it is "acceptable", but not recommended. If the thickness of the wood (ie diameter) is half or less than the blade length of your knife, then the danger of breaking the knife is somewhat less than if it was a thicker log. If the log is knot-free, the danger again reduces. If the wood is a soft species, then the danger is again less. The shorter the log, the less the danger. If the grind is steep (like a Scandi, sabre or convex) then the log will split quicker, thus reducing the danger further. Till one gets to the point where the danger of damage is "acceptable".
Where the log is thicker than that, and needs to be split for some reason, the best alternative is to use wooden wedges.
So, in essence I do agree with you in principle, with a bit of an allowance for practicality.
I'd value your thoughts.
Cheers mate.
Appreciate your view and comment. I understand the reasons voiced for batonning and agree batonning is useful in some instances for precise splits for crafts, fire boards and so on but think the knife should be the last option as a tool. I have batoned my carving axe, hatchet, even a small tomahawk many times with greater success and less effort. The reason I question the need for feather sticks is because I have lived and camped in eastern woodlands all 58 years of my life and have never had to use feather sticks to get a fire even is soggy wet conditions. It’s what you learn and skill. To me feather sticks takes to much effort and time. It makes good video but not practical, and I have made fire with and without them.
@@wcknives Agreed! Thanks for coming back to me!
Axes are just too cumbersome and heavy - all my cutting tools together weigh about the same as a full size axe, and are so much easier to tote around. Hatchets and tomahawks - well the less said the better!
With a Silky saw, CS Trail Master, CS SRK, and a Victorinox Hercules I can accomplish just about anything one needs out in the woods. [Probably without the need to baton! ]
@@dennisleighton2812 tomahawks and small hatchets are about the same weight as a heavy duty belt knife. Tomahawk and a Swiss Army knife is a great combo. Check out my latest videos on titled One Tool Option, Selecting the Proper tool and Survival.
@@wcknives Saw the vid thanks. I guess we can agree to differ on the tomahawk/hatchet issue! No hard feelings mate! Just different preferences.
Cheers
.............True words of wisdom, William....Even some of the biggest names in the TH-cam community do their knife reviews...and one of their first tests is to take it out in the back yard and beat it with a big stick.....I find that totally boring and over used.....In the rare event of ever being caught in a " true survival situation "......the last thing I would ever do is risk breaking my knife. I was taught to take better care of my gear than that. Your scenario of the microscopic fissures developing in the steel from metal fatigue and harmonics is a valid point....you never know how long it will be till the knife breaks......Good video and very valid information.....I miss your Whittle Talks too.........Peace to you and yours, as always.............
I agree with pretty much everything you said..!
The problems with batoning come in because of all the survival (It's becoming a bad word IMO) TV shows & the big name so-called youtube/internet survival gurus promoting Batoning, as a knife capable wood splitter for use on a daily basis. Throw in the sales gimmicks and one tool option.. it only gets worse.
If any tool is used beyond what it's design for.. It's abuse.
Thanks for the video...
Tell it as it is Will! As you always do.
I never saw batoning until TH-cam. I grew up gathering small sticks and making feathers. We always used a axe to split wood.
%100 agreed. I understand all physical and chemical reasons why not to beat on something we want to last and hopefully to pass to next generations as delights of our era. Specially when that thing is a hand made knife by a great artist. Moras are there in all those colours and shapes to buy in bunches and beat the hell out of. There are millions of them, all machine made, and in case if anything happen nor my heart breaks not put myself to bankruptcy, and there will be no pity for a masterpiece.
Great video. Like you said, batoning is a very ... heated subject. As I see it, there's a lot of ignorance from both sides of the argument, but I tend to agree with you. I had never heard of batoning untill the advent of TH-cam. Keep it up!
PennsyltuckyReb are you from Canada and now live in Pennsylvania and Kentucky now or the other way around from the states and now live in Canada? How do you know so much about it? Only curious.
@PennsyltuckyReb I live in Sweden. It's pretty snowy and icy up here as well. Never batoned through anything...
Like I said before, there are arguments from both sides that are pedantic and stupid. But there are also arguments that I find valid on both sides. As for me, I don't do it because the disadvantages seem to exceed the advantages.
But to each his own and if it works for you then rock on! 😁
PennsyltuckyReb I see! I do mention Mores in the Proper Technique video link at the end of this video.
@PennsyltuckyReb I see. Well, that's gently tapping through wood and I guess everyone has done that one time or another. Respect!
Very great info I just hate to see folks beat on their knives TX!
I am a soon-to-be-retired mechanic. The "right tool for the job" rule is there for a reason. If you use the wrong tool for the job, you risk damaging the tool or injuring yourself.
Common sense is always a good thing to have/use. I agree with that. I also agree with most of what you said. Especially about the part how when we end up in a survival situation it is because we made stupid choices. And batoning in that situation is a bad idea. I would say "batoning for the first time, with an untested tool" in that situation is a bad idea.
I am a firm believer that we should test out tools far "harder" than we will even use them.
I also agree with not needing to split the wood...that shaving the wet part does the trick just as well...but it does take more time.
The one part where I don't/can't agree is that knives are not made to be batoned with. Because obviously they are being made/designed to be beat on, chopped with, pried with...how else can we make sense out of a knife like the BK2, the ESEE4 and ESEE 5. Knives which are definitely, without a doubt, not good at cutting stuff..they can be razor sharp but they are not whittling knives. My personal opinion is that any knifemaker/knifemaking company which makes a knife with a blade thicker than 2.0 mm (3.0 tops) is saying: this knife is more than a slicing tool.
SpartanJohns that is a valid point. However, even though these knives are supposedly made for batoning and not necessarily for slicing or fine carving I still have seen a few of those knives mentioned broken from batoning on social media. Never seen a froe broken or axe broken though. Appreciate your view and comment.
@@wcknives If the heat treatment is off in an axe head and it is left too hard this will almost surely also break.
I am not saying that batoning knives is good! Or bad!
But take a look at these oversized tools. Like the Cold Steel SRK. Thick spine, thick grind and yet if you baton it you void the warranty.
In CS videos you can see them stabbing car hoods and chopping bone....to show us that these knives are more than cutting tools.
But if you break one batoning it...it is misuse. ESEE has a different approach. They say: except for rust..do your worse and we'll replace them! I must admit that I tried to break my ESEE 4 batoning it. Hit it in an angle, crossgrain batoning, did far worse things to it than I would ever need to do in an "emergency situation".
you, as a knife maker, can choose to build the right tool for the right job. A hunting knive needs not be thicker than 2 mm. And you do no need to pry bones apart. A thin grind, a shallow edge angle will be far better for processing game and easier to maintain.
I am a fan of testing tools. Should they break while testing I am never sorry. I don't want them failing when I am on a 2-3 day camping trip.
One thing which you said made me think about this more than the rest. If cracks appear and can lead to failure in time.
I was/am of the opinion that if there is a flaw in the blade. A cluster or a crack resulted after HT, this will be exposed within the first times of testing. You hit the knife hard, jam it in a piece of wood, it is under tension, received shock and if there is a flaw it will break.
Not my concern is: could it take longer? could certain tools fail under lesser shock because of abuse and time?
This would make sense in the case of massive tensions and shock. But this is not the case when humans baton. My opinion. But I might be wrong.
Sorry for the long reply...I came to your video because I posted something similar on a facebook group and someone told me that you posted this video.
Thanks for taking the time!
Best regards,
Denis
SpartanJohns agree that any tool not heat treated properly will fail quicker than a properly heat treated tool. My knives and Blade designs are tested to extremes as shown in my R& D videos and I do stand behind them because I have confidence in my work. What I don’t have control over is usually the problem. I also agree the only purpose for a thick blade of over say 1/8” is to provide strength or wedging properties for splitting or heaven forbid prying rather than slicing or cutting. I have several hundred videos on these topics and blade testing. Visit my home page for playlist. Welcome to my channel.
My survival situation is in the city with people that start stuff sometimes. So my survival knife is for self-defense.
Damn...your telling me that my Scalpel with Rosewood handle and red inserts that was shipped yesterday will not work as an axe? If not for TH-cam I don't think it would have ever occurred to me to baton a knife. I appreciate all the feather-sticking and creative ways to start a fire but it's probably because I am left handed and from a foreign country I always seemed to have a trusty Zippo lighter and a small vial of it's fuel to get a fire going in inclement weather. Blackie Thomas did a video using a Saner Scout recently and your video of The Woodsman Narrow (that might be available for immediate shipping) got me conflicted! On the Stitched Gear website there is a white handle knife of yours that I sure would love to have. I love it when a small business is so busy that custom orders are on hold indefinitely...best of luck William. Only in America!
Terrance Coard LOL, yesterday was Sunday so only the shipping label was printed. Yours is in the 20 plus packages going to the post office tomorrow.
@@wcknives LOL...yup...was going to say "shipped" after I looked up the tracking number while making my comment..it's ok...I got one! Went to Dollar General and stocked up on bandaids.
Terrance Coard LOL, hope you don’t need band aids and no don’t recommend batoning the scalpel.😁
Thank-you again for bringing good old common sense to the world of bushcraft and knives. By the way, how about a WC Axe!
Steve Brown axes is done with a forge. I do not have forges. I heat treat with kilns.
Hey Sir, sagely advise as always. I have never heard anything about the small blade edge choile being for that purpose before. Sharpening yes, but from a harmonics purpose not at all. Thank you for bringing up that point. Regarding batoning, I have always been in your court. One thing that I feel is worth mentioning is a comparison of batoning and chopping. To me these are nearly the same thing, perhaps I'm wrong about that, but from a harmonics perspective you are doing nearly the same thing.
Do I want my knife to be able to baton and chop, in case of emergency yes I do. Like you I am a believer in using the right tools for the jobs.
At some point I would like to here your thoughts regarding bearing for tools. I tend to prefer thicker blade stocks than typical bushcrafters would like. Probably because I have a fondness for old hand plains which work very well with thicker blades.
Appreciate your view and comment. Yep chopping does cause vibration and harmonics but not as much as beating the blade with a club, LOL! As stated in my previous video on batoning, in a survival situation batoning would be my last choice or option. to many variables and risk of loosing a valuble tool, just my opinion. Not sure what you asking about bearing for tools but I have many videos on axes and proper tools. Even one about tool weight and advantages of heavier tools. Appreciate your support.
sorry it was this video I talked about survival situations. I just uploaded a follow up video to this one and was confused. LOL!
I believe it largely depends on the steel and construction of the knife. Cross-batoning to cut through small branches is something I do often, as well as splitting branches up to two inches thick. Peeling away the outer layers of wood to get to the middle is a waste of time that just dulls your edge needlessly. Good old fashioned O-1 tool steel can take an insane amount of flexing and twisting without breaking or chipping. Just take it easy and "feel" what the knife is doing and all will be well.
A good straight blade with a convex grind and a resilliant steel, such as 0-1, will see you through a lifetime of hard use.
Zoltan Von Somogyi yep, until it doesn’t.
@@wcknives feel what's going on, use your head, and all will be fine. Hard use does not equal abuse 😊
Zoltan Von Somogyi I think I mentioned that in he video. Common sense is what I said. I will never agree with the practice but know it is part of the community and at this point probably always will. The best we can do is caution and educate.
In summary: if you wish to baton your knife make sure to maintain a smal choil. This will prevent the resonance caused by beating from weakening the structure.
Man of the north in simple terms that helps. Not a cure all.
In a survival situation, you want to guard the edge of your primary tool.
I still dun understand batoning to make kindling. In my part of the woods (SE Asian jungle), we just pick up twigs and dead branches. We may chop the bigger pieces. And a youtuber did point out that most baton was done on straight grain softer wood with no knot. Unless you are William that baton a red oak with a knot. (Yes, I remember THAT video.)
Anyway, I do missed whittle talks.
Gadget yoyo LOL, I test them to the extreme so you Guy’s don’t have to.
PennsyltuckyReb appreciate your view and thoughts on the Canadian north and More’s methods. Doesn’t change my thoughts on the subject and I have read his books and watched many of his videos and DVD’s. As stated in this video if done I recommend proper technique should be used and only kindling size wood straight grained with minimum knot’s. That is only smart. But as they say it’s your knife.
@PennsyltuckyReb Northern Woodsman Elite did baton a WC knife through a trunk. Yes, an ax, foe or Nata (Japanese version of the foe) will be much better for getting firewood. The local traditional knife, Parang, is not that thick at the spine. And most of the local woods are 'green'. The Parang will be stuck as the wood will not split.
And Canadians again. You got some nutty neighbors up north. 😁
Frustrating from my perspective that everybody automatically associates batonning with splitting wood ... when there are many other applications.
So many functions of using a baton with a belt knife (tomahawk or small axe/hatchet) that are not related to splitting wood that I have used since the 60's.
Much akin (similar technique) to using a wood chisel (with solid metal tang thru-pommel striker), making very controlled cuts with light taps to pommel or spine.
I would be very interested to see any video (links maybe) related to the blade cracks described in the primary grind to ricasso transition mentioned in video. It would be my assumption these were more related to the stress riser induced with the 90° transition described. Would think that transition was simply too aggressive an angle change it that area of the knife.
Appreciate your videos as always ;-)
GravityRoller the fracture is microscopic Until total failure. So would be impossible to get on video unless you want to see a broken blade and those are all over the internet with a simple search. Also a quick google search of steel vibration cracks would start you on a very good fact finding journey. I do know the choil in the kukuri is for that purpose. This information is there if you want to take it and if not... appreciate your view.
I too had never heard of batoning until TH-cam . I made this comment once to a well known youtuber and his response was " try it it's fun " . He didn't know my Dad !!! lol
KevinDufflev LOL, I must be doing it wrong. Never found it to be fun.
I'd only ever baton my Estwing axe just enough to put in some wedges.
Thats why I don't don't throw them anymore take care brother
Hey guys well I have to disagree. I literally baton a hole pine tree at least 7 to 8 inches wide maybe 30 feet high and log after log after log, no exaggeration my knife went through it with no issues no problem and some time even bigger. I'm being completely transparent the blade was 6 inches the steel is 01 tool steel and the handle is a broom style handle. And I still do it till this day. It's the heat treatment and I guess who and how or maybe experience might com into play here. But my knife that I played for from a knife maker is holding up. I used it when it was hot,cold,windy,moist and whatever else southern California weather give me, it's a done deal. I just wish at least with my knife that they can make it in Scandinavian grind that's my only complain oh and come in with kydex sheath. But Sr Collins I do respect you very much I watch all your videos and I think that this is probably the only disagreement I may have with you but your an awesome man you make amazing knives I wish I can own one of your knives, there gorgeous and unique at the same time. I hope and wish you the up most sincere growth in your line and business and a long healthy life Sr. By the way I would purchase your woodsmen but a bit bigger version of it maybe 7 and half inch blade with a hachette handle at the end of it. With burlap big a wide baige burlap handle and a brown liner in it. That would be something to see. GOD bless.
Well keep beating on it.😁 it may last your lifetime and break with your kids but it will break.
PPPIIIINNNNNKKKK! the one sound you never want to hear...in a bad situation....especially a really bad one😃
Great video, this subject is absurd
Ok that's why Busse does INFI? They encourage abusing and they don't seem to be afraid of misuse and fails when batoning
Matthieu F yep, a froe will do the same thing but they do not slice very well. Depends on what you want your knife to do.
@@wcknives I guess so, can i ask you what are your thoughts on Scott Gossman work? (if you know him and his work)
I just ordered two models of your knives (alaska bushtool and woodsman bowie), can't wait to test them
Matthieu F I have never used Scott’s knives so I cannot say but he does have a great reputation.
I have never seen a need for splitting wood with a knife, thats what twigs are for, rarely do I even need to make feather sticks. I guess starting a fire on TH-cam would be too boring without making some knife cuts on a piece of wood.
Ahhh common sense what a concept!!!
If the wood you baton is the same size as in this video your knife will never break. That is just never gonna happen unless the wood is one big knot.
Man of the north LOL, more than likely not but if the knife has a thin blade, hit the knife wrong or the vibration causes a fracture at the edge or there is a flaw in the steel or..... it a roll of the dice every time. Some are very lucky, others are not.
William Collins Lol, that is like sunday smoker worrying about cancer. You must be the most considerative man i have encountered.
Man of the north LOL, maybe but unlike most knife users I know the blood sweat, tears and years of work that goes into making a knife. Most only know the amount of dollars. I also study my craft a lot and try to educate as much as I can. Vibration and harmonics has caused bridges and buildings to collapse. Not to mention failures of blades. All blades break as stated in the video. Seen a broken Dark Timber even a few BK2’s. If you must baton be smart about it is all I’m saying.
William Collins That indeed is a sin that people buying a knife only look a the price and see a pile of coins and not the working hours.
Valid points but i think i will nevertheless continue to live dangerously.
Let's handle Nitroglycerin. I thought batoning was for emergency purposes. Making a splitting wedge takes 2 minutes with a saw and small knife. That being said I would baton with my Bark River Crusader, cpm3v 7mm thick. I consider that knife as a hatchet substitute. Some people seem to want to get into a survival situation to prove themselves. If you don't prove yourself you die. I've spent 50 years preventing my death. Nothing to prove.
UH oh! you said batoning!
Denali DownSouth LOL, living on the edge.
I do agree that survival is overrated and many make money on this hypothetical concept.
Is there a society against cruelty to knives ? Seems so.
I respectfully disagree I’ve been batoning for YEARS with a BK9
Yep, works great till it doesn’t. As stated in the video some knives handle it better than others but all have the risk of microscopic fissures that eventually work through the blade over time and fail due to vibrations and harmonics. It’s your knife do what you want. I am only passing on information.