Well, I would argue it's ambigious and bittersweet without clear distinction in the long term, which is best (of course for me, it's a farm ending with the parents). And after all, well, Shadowheart always kills Nightsong without Tav.
@@mr_jyggalag Does she? I'm surprised, since trusting Shadowheart to do what she thinks is right has gotten her to spare Nightsong 10 out of 10 times for me.
@@massivedamagegaming9004 Yeah, it's strange. For the save, I have romanced Shadowheart, who also always spares Nightsong if my Tav is here to say that he trusts her, but if he is dead, well, she just kills Nighsong. This is the exact reason why I want to know what thought process was behind "default options" for companions. Are they significant in any shape or form (like, is this a decision that my companion would make if my Tav wasn't around?) or are they just some dead end of code that first checks if the player is alive and, if not, runs the "default scenario" to foolproof that the encouters run at all?
this is so interesting thank you for sharing! it’s honestly amazing that they have so many scenes where they account for a tav not being there and the fact they default chose to have her parents is awesome. hearing the difference in dialogue here is really cool. now i’m intrigued as to how this would play out if shadowheart is a dark justiciar
I just did this my first time completely by accident. My character just happened to be a little too far back to participate and I didn’t realize. I wa shocked I didn’t get any input when she freed her parents
I thought saving her parents normally wasnt an option, i cant remember the dalogue choices, but thought when i tried freeing them they became moon motes and disappeared, i wonder if i misread something or clicked on the wrong option?
It is possible to save the parents normally too, you need to choose the "Do not lose your parents, not again. The pain can be handled." dialogue option and then you need to pass a skill check to persuade her. If the parents are alive, Shadowheart will have a whole different dialogue in the epilogue and you can talk to the parents in the camp etc.
Well, there is also an option to tell her, "This is your choice, Shadowheart. You don't need me to tell you what is right." If you encounter three "things" in Act 3: her talking about the smells of the city, visiting her (supposedly) mentor's grave in the Lower City's graveyard, and finding her graffiti near Jaheira's house, she would decide to save her parents. And well, I love that in her DJ path, some part of this line is still here with "Do whatever you feel is right, Shadowheart" and her response of "Do what's right. I think I lost sight of that some time ago. Better to just serve blindly." There are so many ways of her DJ path, just breaking my heart with sadness and sorrow.
Thank you! I always wondered what Shadowheart decided to do, and I was surprised to see that she saved them as a "default" choice. But I have a question: does this outcome of yours happen after encautering all things for her to decide to save them (after dialogue about "smells of the city," convos at the graveyard, and near graffiti)? The "default choices" are the interesting thing for me. I do wonder if this was a conscious decision that they made with narrative weight behind it or just some way of resulting in the scene should Tav be missing. Like, afaik, Shadowheart always kills Nightsong in the Shadowfell, even when, otherwise, after "trusting her" option, she throws away the spear, while on the other hand, many other "narrative decisions" are the work of pure luck (the number of interactions between Durge and Astarion is a known example).
My Tav let her choose, and she choose to end them. My Tav did romance her, so maybe this influences her too. Her father also also adresses this. Probably realizing her and Tav are close, so she will not be alone.
@@Fuzz82 well, my Tav romanced her as well, so when she chose to save them, I was like, "Ok, my girl saved her parents; my part in it now is to support her decision no matter what." It's a bittersweet ending in both cases, without a clear answer as to which one is better. Both have pluses and minuses, but they are vague enough to be considered "best" with a specific reading. And yet I'm still sad and salty that there are no comments about Shadowheart's situation (that being any point of her quest in Act 3) from Aylin and Isobel.
@@shadow_riseninteresting and nice to know, thanks! I really wish we got better at how "default choices" work. I can't wait for tools for modding to unpack the staff that the game keeps hidden from our eyes.
Hi! I am trying to update the BG3 wiki to be more detailed and accurate, and I am focused on greetings for the companions. As seeing you have made a lot of videos about Shadowheart and her dialogue, I wanted to ask, do you know what her greetings are if the player romances her on the Sharran path? Are they the same as her Selunite greetings or do they switch to the post-breakup greetings? (Since she kind of breaks up with the player.) Also, does she have different non-romanced greetings at all on the Sharran path? I would really appreciate your input if you know about this!
Hi! Romanced Sharran greetings are the same as romanced Selunite greetings. I don't know about non-romanced greetings and I don't have files to try it out because I have always romanced her.
Howdy! A question, as you seem to be a Shadowheart Connoisseur of sorts: if you're on the Sharran path and she saves her parents, does she just fully turn into Selúnite Shadowheart and that's that? That's the impression I got from other sources but it seems a bit odd. Does she acknowledge the turn she took at all? Does it impact the romance, change the kissing animations to the less aggressive variation? Does she walk back her "don't call it love" stance explicitly?
Hi! She doesn't acknowledge the turn that much, the following cutscene at the Selûne statue is pretty much the same (it might be exactly the same, I can't remember) as in the Selûne Shads path, I wish they adressed it more. Impact on the romance is that you miss both swimming lessons (Selune path) and Nightfall Ritual (DJ path) scene. She doesn't have special dialogue regarding "the don't call love stance", it's just pretty much turns into Selûne SH romance, but the kissing animations stay DJ. The epilogue is exactly same as it would be for a Selûne SH who saved her parents except her hair is black.
@@shadow_risenThank you for the info! And also darn, that's a shame. Considering it's the central point of conflict in her character, you'd think they would've accounted for just that lil bit of flexibility. Not to be ungrateful, of course, she's an incredible character and sometimes the resources to make more content just aren't available. Still, I wonder if there's something that could be done through modding. Like maybe grabbing a couple cameos from good ol Jen English, shuffling some things around... Maybe having the Nightfall Ritual available on a long rest before House of Grief (would that fit? I've never gone DJ) and the hair change + swimming lesson on a long rest after? Hmm.
@@peyodogo4864 I too wish they had resources to make something special for that, because there is the added weight of killing Dame Aylin and consequently dooming all of Last Light Inn and people who took refuge there, like it really feels it should be addressed in some way along the romance. I mean Selûne becomes her clerical deity in that path as well and it isn't addressed in any way. I don't feel the Nightfall ritual fits before House of Grief, she's very unhinged in it, almost to the point of being unrecognizable as she's riding the high after her conquest and success in the House of Grief, so it doesn't make sense it would be before. On the other hand I don't feel swimming lessons fit after it either, the vibe I got from it was she had been thinking about Shar for several days (maybe weeks depending how long the travel to Baldur's Gate took) and wanted to cleanse herself from Shar's influence and gain independence, so it would be too soon after the sudden conflict that took place in House of Grief imo. I think that path could do with its own unique romance scene that could at the same time address all those things left unaddressed. Would be interesting if modders could create something like that, but I don't know if it's too hard.
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Hearing shadowheart say “you’re a monster, not a goddess” instead of it being a tav dialogue choice hits diff
This confirms to me that shadowheart dealing with Shar's pain curse and saving her parents is the best ending for her.
Well, I would argue it's ambigious and bittersweet without clear distinction in the long term, which is best (of course for me, it's a farm ending with the parents).
And after all, well, Shadowheart always kills Nightsong without Tav.
@@mr_jyggalag Does she? I'm surprised, since trusting Shadowheart to do what she thinks is right has gotten her to spare Nightsong 10 out of 10 times for me.
@@massivedamagegaming9004 Yeah, it's strange. For the save, I have romanced Shadowheart, who also always spares Nightsong if my Tav is here to say that he trusts her, but if he is dead, well, she just kills Nighsong. This is the exact reason why I want to know what thought process was behind "default options" for companions. Are they significant in any shape or form (like, is this a decision that my companion would make if my Tav wasn't around?) or are they just some dead end of code that first checks if the player is alive and, if not, runs the "default scenario" to foolproof that the encouters run at all?
There is no best ending
Best one is to kill nightsong so she doesnt get the pain curse and then make her save her parents
this is so interesting thank you for sharing! it’s honestly amazing that they have so many scenes where they account for a tav not being there and the fact they default chose to have her parents is awesome. hearing the difference in dialogue here is really cool. now i’m intrigued as to how this would play out if shadowheart is a dark justiciar
Hello! Thank you, I'm glad to hear that! I actually just did DJ Shadowheart version: th-cam.com/video/GS5DV7YQaP8/w-d-xo.html
I just did this my first time completely by accident. My character just happened to be a little too far back to participate and I didn’t realize. I wa shocked I didn’t get any input when she freed her parents
I thought saving her parents normally wasnt an option, i cant remember the dalogue choices, but thought when i tried freeing them they became moon motes and disappeared, i wonder if i misread something or clicked on the wrong option?
It is possible to save the parents normally too, you need to choose the "Do not lose your parents, not again. The pain can be handled." dialogue option and then you need to pass a skill check to persuade her. If the parents are alive, Shadowheart will have a whole different dialogue in the epilogue and you can talk to the parents in the camp etc.
Well, there is also an option to tell her, "This is your choice, Shadowheart. You don't need me to tell you what is right." If you encounter three "things" in Act 3: her talking about the smells of the city, visiting her (supposedly) mentor's grave in the Lower City's graveyard, and finding her graffiti near Jaheira's house, she would decide to save her parents.
And well, I love that in her DJ path, some part of this line is still here with "Do whatever you feel is right, Shadowheart" and her response of "Do what's right. I think I lost sight of that some time ago. Better to just serve blindly." There are so many ways of her DJ path, just breaking my heart with sadness and sorrow.
@@shadow_risen I wish i coulds remembder the options and which i intneded to choose.
Thank you! I always wondered what Shadowheart decided to do, and I was surprised to see that she saved them as a "default" choice. But I have a question: does this outcome of yours happen after encautering all things for her to decide to save them (after dialogue about "smells of the city," convos at the graveyard, and near graffiti)?
The "default choices" are the interesting thing for me. I do wonder if this was a conscious decision that they made with narrative weight behind it or just some way of resulting in the scene should Tav be missing. Like, afaik, Shadowheart always kills Nightsong in the Shadowfell, even when, otherwise, after "trusting her" option, she throws away the spear, while on the other hand, many other "narrative decisions" are the work of pure luck (the number of interactions between Durge and Astarion is a known example).
My Tav let her choose, and she choose to end them. My Tav did romance her, so maybe this influences her too. Her father also also adresses this. Probably realizing her and Tav are close, so she will not be alone.
@@Fuzz82 Awww.
@@Fuzz82 well, my Tav romanced her as well, so when she chose to save them, I was like, "Ok, my girl saved her parents; my part in it now is to support her decision no matter what."
It's a bittersweet ending in both cases, without a clear answer as to which one is better. Both have pluses and minuses, but they are vague enough to be considered "best" with a specific reading.
And yet I'm still sad and salty that there are no comments about Shadowheart's situation (that being any point of her quest in Act 3) from Aylin and Isobel.
I did not trigger those memories that affect her decision. And I tested this three times in a row and every time she saved her parents.
@@shadow_riseninteresting and nice to know, thanks! I really wish we got better at how "default choices" work. I can't wait for tools for modding to unpack the staff that the game keeps hidden from our eyes.
Hi! I am trying to update the BG3 wiki to be more detailed and accurate, and I am focused on greetings for the companions. As seeing you have made a lot of videos about Shadowheart and her dialogue, I wanted to ask, do you know what her greetings are if the player romances her on the Sharran path? Are they the same as her Selunite greetings or do they switch to the post-breakup greetings? (Since she kind of breaks up with the player.) Also, does she have different non-romanced greetings at all on the Sharran path? I would really appreciate your input if you know about this!
Hi! Romanced Sharran greetings are the same as romanced Selunite greetings. I don't know about non-romanced greetings and I don't have files to try it out because I have always romanced her.
Howdy! A question, as you seem to be a Shadowheart Connoisseur of sorts: if you're on the Sharran path and she saves her parents, does she just fully turn into Selúnite Shadowheart and that's that? That's the impression I got from other sources but it seems a bit odd. Does she acknowledge the turn she took at all? Does it impact the romance, change the kissing animations to the less aggressive variation? Does she walk back her "don't call it love" stance explicitly?
Hi! She doesn't acknowledge the turn that much, the following cutscene at the Selûne statue is pretty much the same (it might be exactly the same, I can't remember) as in the Selûne Shads path, I wish they adressed it more. Impact on the romance is that you miss both swimming lessons (Selune path) and Nightfall Ritual (DJ path) scene. She doesn't have special dialogue regarding "the don't call love stance", it's just pretty much turns into Selûne SH romance, but the kissing animations stay DJ. The epilogue is exactly same as it would be for a Selûne SH who saved her parents except her hair is black.
@@shadow_risenThank you for the info! And also darn, that's a shame. Considering it's the central point of conflict in her character, you'd think they would've accounted for just that lil bit of flexibility. Not to be ungrateful, of course, she's an incredible character and sometimes the resources to make more content just aren't available.
Still, I wonder if there's something that could be done through modding. Like maybe grabbing a couple cameos from good ol Jen English, shuffling some things around... Maybe having the Nightfall Ritual available on a long rest before House of Grief (would that fit? I've never gone DJ) and the hair change + swimming lesson on a long rest after? Hmm.
@@peyodogo4864 I too wish they had resources to make something special for that, because there is the added weight of killing Dame Aylin and consequently dooming all of Last Light Inn and people who took refuge there, like it really feels it should be addressed in some way along the romance. I mean Selûne becomes her clerical deity in that path as well and it isn't addressed in any way.
I don't feel the Nightfall ritual fits before House of Grief, she's very unhinged in it, almost to the point of being unrecognizable as she's riding the high after her conquest and success in the House of Grief, so it doesn't make sense it would be before. On the other hand I don't feel swimming lessons fit after it either, the vibe I got from it was she had been thinking about Shar for several days (maybe weeks depending how long the travel to Baldur's Gate took) and wanted to cleanse herself from Shar's influence and gain independence, so it would be too soon after the sudden conflict that took place in House of Grief imo.
I think that path could do with its own unique romance scene that could at the same time address all those things left unaddressed. Would be interesting if modders could create something like that, but I don't know if it's too hard.
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