How does Mizora's deal change if you already went to Iron Throne?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
- What changes if you got to the Iron Throne before Mizora tells you where it is?
0:00 Intro
0:24 Iron Throne
1:38 Mizora's offer
3:18 Accepting the offer
6:35 Refusing the offer - เกม
The outcome was a bit disappointing. I haven't found any explanation why exactly is the Duke dead, so it feels a bit like an artificial plot device so Mizora has a reason to come to your camp and ask for Wyll's soul.
I tried different save states, but Duke was always dead.
In the end, if you want to have a chance to save both Ravengards, you need to wait for Mizora to come to your camp, refuse her and only then go to the Iron Throne.
That sucks. Really wanted you to be able to laugh in her face that you already saved Ravengard
I think the general consensus would be that Mizora outplays you and whilst you are travelling down in the submersible, goes to the throne and kills Ravengard just so she can then make the offer to Wyll to bring him back in exchange for Wyll's continued servitude
You can actually save both. I did in my first playthrough. You just have to be quick. Take Mizoras pact offer (to kill Wyll's father) then go to the submersible (make sure you have not yet destroyed the steel watch foundry). When you get the the submersible's destination, send a character with sanctuary (like Shadowheart) to Duke Ravenguard's cell as fast as possible and cast sanctuary on him. Get him back to the submersible as fast as possible.
Both the Duke and Mizora will be at your camp. She pouts about how you outwitted her but makes no attempt to kill him for the rest of the game.
I convinced Wyll to abandon his father. Told Mizora to kick rocks. When we got to the Iron Throne, duke was still alive. Make it make sense.
@BeautifulImperfction yes, but it is only possible if you go to Iron throne _after_ Mizora comes with the deal and you refuse it. I mention this in the pinned comment. I wanted to know what happens if you go there _before_ she comes.
This implies Mizora kills Ravengard in this scenario just so she has a bargaining chip for Wyll.
Yes, and it still doesn't solve why he is possible to save only if you choose the "Duke will die by hands of his enemies" option. Or sell soul.
@@GamingBirchprobably just a plug for a very unlikely scenario.
@@bengunn9670 Yes, and personally it bugs me, probably too much than it should :D
She does try to kill him if Wyll gets too close to rescuing her. She's very manipulative, but I get the feeling she's a lot less powerful than she presents herself or she'd have taken a more active role.
@@Ellanion she is a lvl12 sorceress. Considerable, but not alone vs entire party.
shit I wanted her to look surprised, like for once you're actually one step ahead of her
Yes, this is exactly what I was hoping for.
It's a bit sad, because in theory you can follow the "avenge the Ironhands" quest, learn about the prison from the Gondians, and accidentally cause Duke's death this way.
It just feels too forced.
Bruh the only way you won't get this deal before finding the iron throne is meta gaming. If you break his pact before going you can still save him.
@@Zyklon_B_still_and_know_God There are multiple reasons to discover the secret prison and go to the Iron Throne early and metagaming has nothing to do with it (most of the time).
In my first playthrough (where I avoided spoilers like the plague) I got this outcome. And the only reason for that was because I wanted to get rid of giant-ass-murder-robots as quickly as possible and also I long rested very sparingly (because I assumed there may be some hidden countdown in the game).
@@Zyklon_B_still_and_know_God
If you follow the "Avenge the Ironhands" quest, you naturally find the "Save the Gondians" quest, which leads you to the Throne even without Mizora.
There NEEDS to be a way to find it, because you need to go there for this quest, but you don't even have to have Wyll in your party. He can die/leave in various parts of the game.
If Omeluum and the society of brilliance are alive in act3 the mind flayer will be a prisoner on the iron throne and the duke will be alive and it will help u save him even if you avoided all conversations with mizora.
If you can pull it off successfully she does admit to you besting her and grudgingly tells you to go ahead and gloat about it.
To pull it off dont kill Omeluum in the underdark dont give the githyanki egg to ester and dont interact with mizora in act 3 and go to the iron throne asap.
"Hold on a second Mizora, ladies, I want to get a second opinion. Withers! Can you come here? I want to ask you about the cost of something."
Oh that would be amazing. Maybe it should depend if you can pass the wisdom check to learn what Withers is as a paladin or cleric
@@mauriciodavilachavez8638 more like a god
@@SiGLoORiGiN Gods can be paladins or clerics.
@@SiGLoORiGiNThey said learn what withers is *as* a paladin or cleric - as in, the player is the one that's a paladin or cleric in that sentence.
Withers replies, “No.”
3:52 She signs Wyll's name on the contract, he doesn't actually sign it. That's a forgery, Mizora, it's not a legally binding contract.
I wouldn't put it past a Devil to include the right to sign his name if he verbally agrees. Prevents him from loopholing "well I can't sign because my hands are full of weapons"
She also had 2 witnesses confirm that he verbally agreed anyway, the signature means little
It’s legal to sign for someone else if you have their express permission, which she does here. This is binding.
@@carolynv8979 found the infernal lawyer.
Gortash signs away Karlach's service without her getting a say.
Devil rules and contracts don't follow current real world contract laws.
I made him break the pact and then i stumbled across the iron throne. Daddy was still alive (though was very close to being killed by exploding spiders) and saved him without Mizoras help
Having a cleric with Spirit Guardians up do the rescue in that wing makes the spiders die without effort or explosion.
As far as I know, this is the Golden Path - the only way to free Wyll, while also having a chance to save Duke.
Yeap, you say no to Mizora and go there to save the Duke yourself, those spiders are a gift from Mizora as she tries to prevent you from saving the Duke. Iron throne however you really need that mindflyer flight to save most.
I did the same, had to throw an invisibility potion at the Duke to save him from the spiders
@@cembaturkemikkiran4109 there is tonns of options to save all prisoners. Just use your fantasy. Portals, spores, spells of Haste, anything could be useful
Honestly: I think Mizora has a stronger hand if the Duke is already dead. "Resurrect him" is a stronger argument than "I will protect him", because with the protection scenario, by refusing you at least gives the player hope of saving him while not needing Mizora's help. But the resurrection angle is clearer and gives the player no hope of resolving it by themselves.
Agreed. It's a bit awkward in how it gets to that point with him dead, but as a deal it feels like the kind of deal you'd expect in this situation, and the kind of deal Wyll would actually look at making. "I can protect him, just sign over your soul" is kind of light as far as bargains go, to be honest...and the whole reason he's got the pact with Mizora was being put in a situation where he was saving all of Baldurs Gate.
"He's dead, but I will bring him back if you sign over your soul for good" on the other hand? Now puts him in a real position of having to make a compelling decision.
I kind of think that the "I will protect him" option should have been her setting up that we owe her a favor to be claimed in the future (not sure what would work here to make it so you aren't necessarily cool with taking the favor deal every time), and if you turn that down because you don't want to owe a devil anything then he can end up dead (with other conditions connecting to whether he is dead or not, so you have agency in that outcome if you don't take the deal, but tricky to pull off if you don't know the exact steps needed). Then, if found dead, Wyll is given the option to bring him back at the cost of his soul.
Unless you've come across Connor Vinderblad. Then the deal just seems awful.
Sure, if you just ignore Clerics having resurrection spells and Gale having a scroll of True Resurrection on him, but they don’t work because….reasons.
Larian: What the hell is a true resurrection?
It's clear that refusing and putting in the work to save him is meant to be the best over all option. But bg3 is great so you get many ways to do every quest
That “SILENCE, KARLACH!” always cracks me up 😂
literally like she's a cat who won't shut up at night
THIS AIN'T ABOUT YOU KARLACH!
I mean... Withers is literally a few meters away.
Withers is bound by fate to not interfere in matters unrelated.
@@TabbyVee I mean... considering who Withers actually is, he seems more bound by Helm not getting pissed off again.
It's safe to say he choose not to intervene. :/
Noooo...
Well, He does not want to unbalance the balance.
Me with the scroll of Resurrection I stole from Gale: -.-
"I thought the Absolute would have use for him. A general, a figurehead, *something*. Why infect and imprison him, only to kill him?" For plot reasons, Wyll. Plot reasons.
The Plot - greatest armor for the protagonist, the greatest threat for everyone else.
Nah, Mizora actually confirms in some dialog afterwards that she killed him. And if you manage to save Ravenguard and free Wyll from his pact, you can listen to her thoughts, and she tells you that she's planning on killing the Duke later anyway. She presented the deal to look like it was Wyll's soul in exchange for info, but in reality, she was going to make sure the Duke was dead one way or another if he refused. It was basically her holding him hostage.
Not just Resurrection, a Scroll of True Resurrection which is basically as long as the recipient soul is willing to return they can be resurrected no matter what happened to them.
@@Shadeius also this scroll can ressurect you when your head smashed and tadpole removed by blunt force. But seems not tav but tadpole have all the plotarmor
Theo did such a great job portraying Wyll's grief in this moment.
They even revived the Parasite, what a nice bonus!
I'm gonna theory craft an explanation here that might help rectify this.
The Duke is dead upon arriving at the Iron Throne. Mizora is a warlock patron, who surely has more warlocks in her employ - especially ones who would more dubious and loyal than sweetheart Wyll. Lets assume she assigns one of her stronger warlocks to teleport into the Iron Throne (assuming the prison isnt lead-lined to prevent magic), and assassinate the imprisoned duke. That contract is completed and the Duke's death marks his soul for no resurrection.
Then, when Mizora offers the resurrection, she explains that "an extraordinary death by an otherworldly creature prevents a typical resurrection, pet. You'd be surprised by the power of the Absolute". She wouldn't be lying - its just two unrelated sentences to make it seem like the Absolute killed the Duke. But, another contract would supercede the death mark provided by the first contract.
The fact that resurrection is so readily in Forgotten Realms causes issues for the stories of CRPGs because its hard to keep a handle on, so you'd have to add some BS like this to suppress it.
While it does make sense that a devil would try to outsmart us like that, it really does not make sense that Ravengard dies before Mizora's offer.
If you don't try to save him before her deal, he's alive but her offer basically is: Ravengard's location in exchange for Wyll soul. We don't even know if he's gonna be alive, so who would accept that?
Like... why he's not dead already when you refuse her offer? I mean, why even bother?
I'd like to headcanon that she actually wants to see will suffer personally and see if he can out do her. But alas just bad writing
@@yharnamiyhill787 Even then, I doubt that a few exploding spiders is the best she can do. I mean, if you accept, she personally appears and helps him. If you refuse, why isn't she (or another devil) waiting for you with a knife at Duke's throat, and when you show up "Hello Wyll" _slice_
Also the deal literally is "Duke dies", not "Duke dies in Iron Throne".
It just doesn't make sense that the only way to save Duke, is to tell a devil that he should die.
I'm guessing that getting to the duke would involve some risk even for her, so she wouldn't attempt it unless she really needs to. If you're getting close to the duke before she offers the deal, she's at risk of losing her bargaining chip and thus she has incentive to intervene. But if the bargain has been made and Wyll chose to free himself, she's content to let the chips fall where they may because it seems unlikely that the duke will be found, and even if he is found, he probably won't survive the rescue attempt. Plus, she no longer has a vested interest in the outcome.
So what I get out of my experience is that by breaking contract and showing Mizora Wyll can take matters into his own hands - he’s finally outgrown her and is no longer the desperate “pup” that she always called him. She makes this pretty clear to you once you outsmart her by breaking contract and saving Duke Ravenguard anyways.
After this the interesting bit is that she wants to stay if you allow her which I took as her wanting to find another way to have influence in your party. If we can all recall from the first meeting with Mizora she admits she takes interest in you. I took this as she’s loosing interest in Wyll and looking for others to begin a contract with.
Yeah it's really weird. Plus what kind of a bargain is that? She literally will try to kill Wyll's father if Wyll won't sign. What is she gonna do next? Offer "your partner for your soul. Your cat for your soul. Your breakfast for your soul" and destroy all those until. Wyll is going to sign? Pretty sure devil bargains aren't supposed to work that way, the devils don't threaten to actually do something themselves, they promise to help in exchange for a soul/service/something.
What's funny, is that lore-wise, Wyll doesn't even need to get a pact with a devil to resurrect his father. He just needs to go on a journey to find someone that knows how to cast True Resurrection and convince them to resurrect his father. It's definitely hard, but arguably better than taking the easy way out.
Considering it's forgotten realms they could just take a walk over to Waterdeep or Silverymoon and get it done. BG3 is a great game but it was clearly written by people with only cursory knowledge of the lore.
@@afilthyweeb8684 Honestly it's pretty good overall, they could have disregarded the lore more. I mean, Forgotten Realms lore is pretty deep. Although while playing I kept thinking "Even if everything goes 100% for the villains, they can barely even take over the Sword Coast, much less the world. And that's if they disregard the underground. If they try to take on the entire sword coast under dark they are very much just gonna die."
For my second playthrough except for killing Dolar at the wine tasting event. I beelined straight for the iron throne after entering the city didn't long rest. I was able to rescue the duke with out issue I didn't hav Wyll in my party entering the city or at the prison. There was dialogue with mizora after about saving the duke.
"I bet you're pleased with yourself. Saving ravengard and making a fool out of me in a single swoop."
"Go on, do your gloating. You earned it."
Wyll: " Damn right I did. My father is safe and my chains are broken."
After loading my save I realised it wasn't entirely without issue. Astarion took one for the team.
Interesting... I tried different situations on different characters and I was never able to save him without having talked to Mizora first.
@@GamingBirch was the mind flayer also a prisoner on your attempts? Omeluum from the order of brilliance.
@@VikCachat No, I always gave the Githyanki Egg to Lady Esther, so Omeluum was never there.
I only found out what happens to the Society a few days ago...
@@GamingBirch on entering the prison omeluum warns you that the duke is there and you must rescue him. You can free Omeluum as well and you get him as a temp party member.
If the Duke died, then surly his tadpole would have gone?
Bro just lose your powers, withers can respec you into a sorcerer stop crying.
i think mechanic wise, if wyll breaks the pact he might have some or most of his levels drained
@@Acranify There's always more goblins to kill. He can get those levels back. Especially as a sorceror.
@@antonyduhamel1166 too bad magic classes suck in the early game
@@thedoomslayer5863 Literally a level 1 Warlock/Level 1 Sorceror has access to the best cantrip of all time. Eldritch Blast. With high Charisma, you don't NEED anything else until level 5.
I'm honestly surprised Mizora didn't trick wyll by having his father coming back as a zombie, or crazy
She ain't as crazy as auntie ...
The devils seem to have more honest contracts than hags, which is kind of ironic. The price is usually extreme, but they will do as promised without trying to monkey paw you too much
@@georgiykireev9678 It's in their nature. Devils are lawful evil. Meaning if they make a contract, they follow it to the letter. You can be sure that devil's contract has no extra agenda, nothing you *technically* didn't know about. Sure, that doesn't exclude the possibility for loopholes, like Mizora being able to send Wyll after Karlach due to the "you will hunt the heartless" bit, but that *is* what's written in the contract and that is what Wyll agreed to.
@georgiykireev9678 they aren't as openly terrible as hags, but they are still extremely manipulative. For example, when talking to the architect of moonrise towers, talking to yugir, and talking to the rats that are secretly a dark justiciar, you find out how raphael fucked them all. He promised the moonrise architect he would summon a beast (Yugir) to eliminate the shar army, then he trapped Yugir by making a deal with the last Sharran into turning into rats.
"Mizora, I've come to bargain"
"You've come to die"
fun fact: this also happens if you try and non-lethal the duke in the initial audience with gortash, if you fight gortash there. when you knock him out, he inexplicably dies to fire damage immediately. mizora then offers this deal and theres another line of dialogue somewhere (i dont remember where exactly) where a character goes "that explains why that attack killed him then"
happened in my run
So it should be fine so long as you don't attack him?
@@infernoblitz2449 not sure, didnt get a chance to try
If you save Florrick you won't see Eltan, you will see Florrick
Really interesting, thank you for sharing. It's great that videos like this exist because otherwise I'd be stuck making hundreds of games to explore all the outcomes lol
I was fully expecting Ravengard to be resurrected but horribly morphed in some way... like a "careful what you wish for" or monkeys paw situation
Nah, Devils mostly keep their word, it's more what they will ask in return for the service they provide you should be wary of
The dilemma here is stupid. His father is already dead, why would he resurrect him instead of being free?
That Duke Ravengard is dead doesn't mean that his soul is safe from being tormented for all eternity. In the Forgotten Realms that threat is not just hypothetic but very real. Wyll knows it and he (probably) doesn't want his father to be tormented, especially not for all eternity.
@@ReisskIaue the Duke is faithful to the Triad, so he would be judged as such and given passage to their domains in Celestia. Wyll's soul will be judged upon his death less favorably for consorting with dark powers, but ultimately his heroic heart should net him some favor in Kelemvor's judgement
@@ReisskIaue the only way someone is tormented by devils after death is either because they were lawful evil in life, or they broke a devils contract, a devil tormenting someone in the hells as a bargaining chip would either get them killed or heavily penalized.
the devils are stuck following the rules of the contract that made devils a thing in the first place.
@@nuclearchezburgr3857 Wait, can you call Mizora out on the terms with Ravenguards soul If you're a Cleric of Kelemvor? Because If anyone could, It would be them
I mean. It's his dad. LMAO. How is that stupid? Wyll greatly admires his dad. The only person/being he admires more is Balduran. Not to mention at this point there is a lot left unsaid between Wyll and his father. It is understandable that he might want to try and take the opportunity to mend things. Also the video AND the game makes it VERY CLEAR how important Ulder is to Baldur's Gate. If you follow anything to do with Wyll you would catch this and know that Wyll would do ANYTHING to protect his people. Bringing Ulder is just that.
btw if you have his corpse on you and choose to resurrect him the corpse will ACUALLY disappear
Two devil ladies are baddies..
Yeah, I intentionally left them in a few more times than what was necessary :D
Plot enforced inability to use, in world AND gameplay accessible, means to do something clearly doable is literally the worst thing you can find in all video game RPGs.
And this specific case even reenforsed by letting you prevent Mizora from killing Ravenguard persanaly later if you refuse her deal.
Its a masssive problem that stems from how great BG3 is:
By letting players have numeros options for almost all situation, game make it so that when there is obviouse solution to the issue that you canot inact because devs just didnt do it this particular time, it is so much more visible and grading. And yes, i know that, if they did let players to just ressurect Duke on their own, they would have to let players ressurect literaly every NPC, wich would be simply unfisable to develop ALL the variables that would bring.
It was even worse in previous games such as Neverwinter Nights, where you ran around with countless scrolls of Raise Dead and Resurrection, yet could only use them on PCs and companions. Here at least the only options you have is Revivify, which originally only worked on people very recently dead, favors from the avatar of a prior God of Death, and an incredibly hard-to-obtain item that I'm actually surprised they've left in the game. But yeah, it's still frustrating.
I do wish they'd kept the time limit for revivify that the table top game has, that way you could easily hand wave it as "it's been too long". Then Withers as a mechanic is basically letting a handful of people come back after that time, because of his own goals, to revive any party members you don't make it with.
so he even gets the tadpole back? huh
I had Florrick show up instead of the guard since I had freed her already.
Nice, I had no idea this was an option. I suppose she isn't as aggressive as Cordula?
@@GamingBirch yeah, if Florrick is free she takes this spot
Yeah I got this on my first playthrough and I couldn't figure out how to talk her down in the dialogue so she just attacked me, I was so confused. I made sure to defeat her with non-lethal damage but she just dies anyways and the "gather your allies" quest log in the journal was like "Florrick was about to help us, but we killed her" and I felt bad about it LOL
Player: "Why dont i just walk around literally everywhere to find the dad? OH LOOK. THERE HE IS!!!"
DM: *Defeated face, glaring at player* "...........................Oh look. Hes dead."
Cordula is actually the backup character to confront Wyll if his father is not saved. Its supposed to be Counsellor Florrick who you can have met in acts 1 and 2. But that's only if you complete the side quest to rescue her in act 3. I didn't know this until I think my second or third playthrough and discovered this part of the story.
Cordula's last name is Eltan, which may mean she is descended from Duke Eltan who created the Flaming Fist (he's in the first Baldur's Gate game).
I really expected Mizora to pull an Ethel and bring him back a zombie.
Always check the fine print 😮
I actually did this on accident. Thinking if I took care of the iron throne first and then went to Gortash's corronation something would happen but I can't remember if I went to the Iron Throne before or after.
If you go to the Throne before the coronation, Duke should not be in the prison. He should still be in the castle.
In my first playthrough, I didn't ever go to Gortash's coronation, so Duke Ravengard was part of the Gortash boss fight.
I SPECIFICALLY dealt a passive-non-lethal melee attack to him, but he erupts in flames and dies anyway. The characters even acknowledge that "that blow wasn't supposed to kill him!"
Mizora shows up all smug and gives the offering of the pact and it's pretty clear that she went out of her way to make sure Ravengard dies so she could have an ace up her sleeve for Wyll's contract.
I was stuck with Schrödinger's Ravenguard when I attacked during the crowning ceremony, used hold person and ran away. Everyone treated him as if he was alive, but Mizora still came to bargain and acted as if he was dead. Obviously, I told Wyll to sever the path, then half of the companions started acting as if Wyll sacrificed his father. Act 3 is nothing compared to Act 1
Weird how much BG3 changes depending on your playthrough. For me it was Counsellor Florrick instead of Cordula. Don’t even think I’ve met Cordula. Also never even heard of the iron throne yet. The duke died when I killed Gortash before even getting to the city. I didn’t see how to keep him from dying there. Is that possible?
Idk if this was a change in a patch, or it was just bugged before, or what, but I have saved the Duke before Mizora before.
I never did get the camp bargain scene after in that save, and a friend of mine who had saved the Duke first says be got bugged dialogue with Mizora.
So this must have been updated recently because during my playthrough I did just this and the game got very confused. Everything kept saying that my dad was in the iron throne that I had already saved everybody from. The story corrects itself eventually where it just assumes he's dead and resurrects him after making another deal. I think they just added the body as a failsafe to make it less confusing.
This is _way_ better than what normally happens! Holy hell!
i always wonder.. you are in baldur's gate city... why there is no cleric to cast true resurrection to the duke?
I would guess its because its extremely rare for mortals to ever reach level 17. Without being a hero or saint
Raise dead would be a more viable option.
In a different Dnd plot this is used rather interestingly. To raise a lot diplomats after they are assassinated to prevent a shit show. Tapping into the kingdoms reserve of diamonds to do so.
The game is massive with so many scenarios and possibilities. It can be hard to make EVERYTHING satisfying tbf. Still the game is incredible even if a few options slip here and there
I'm assuming if you save florrick, it's her that talks to you instead of cordula? I've never even see that lady lol
I guess so. I usually save her pretty late, so I always got Cordula. I didn't even know you can get Floric.
I tried this interraction and duke is always dead in the IT if you didnt speak to her….
I forgot how the D&D universe technology level is at 😅. Like they have submarines, airships
Are you able to use Gale's True Ressurection Scroll on Ravengard's corpse? I want to see what happens if someone tries that.
It just says that the target must be a playable character.
What if you use Gale's scroll of true resurrection on Ravenguard?
Honestly really weird that even in a story based death and resurrection, the tadpole doesn't leave the grand duke's head.
i mean karlach literally burns anything which makes slight flesh contact with her and the tadpole somehow didnt get charred the second it touched her, the tadpoles have more plot armor than the player
@@theveganduolingobird7349😂 that Netherese Magic sure was something.
So moral of the story: follow the sequence, and refuse Mizora's offer BEFORE going to the iron throne. Unless you DO want Ulder to be dead
I kinda wanna know now what happens if you save the True Res scroll for him.
Never underestimate a Devil's cunning.
What if you go to the Iron Throne without Wyll? Would he still be dead?
he wasn't even there for me as I didn't even bother going to the corination until very much after.
Is this boulders gate two or three?
What happens with Iron Throne if you kill Gortash before going to it
In this scenario I think I’m way more likely to have Wyll make his pact again
Is there anyway to gain the scroll of true resurrection and raise the duke with it while in the prison?
Edit: Probably not, I do recall it might only work on companions, with Gale being the only exception.
That was an incredibly annoying discovery for myself, first playthrough I thought going straight to Gortash was an endgame thing that would prevent me from exploring the city as I assaulted their ruler as well as wanting to take out the Steel Watch as I assumed they would be hard to fight alongside Gortash, so I left that for later and after many hours of doing virtually every other quest (including the iron throne where I somehow didn't even see Ravenguard's body) I finally go back to the palace with Gortash and find Mizora and Wyll talking about his dead father (this was the first time it was ever mentioned by Wyll or any other character) and all the palace is immediately hostile. I have no way of going back to before the iron throne and frankly I wouldn't want to undo all the hours of progress.
"rest in peace, et cetera, bla bla bla"
dayum girl got no chill
I once made it to lower city after doing the entirety of rivington without short resting so I had 2 short rests left for lower city. I decided to do the minsc quest and the iron throne (originally) and since I hadn't seen mizora yet I hoped we could snatch him before a bargain but unfortunately he was dead when i got there. Too bad the game doesn't let you save him for free.
My very first save, right after the game came out, I actually did refuse Mizorah and then went on to save Duke Ravenguard. Except, that after saving the Duke, all of the dialogue and character's saying them started to act as if I had accepted Mizorah's deal. Which I hadn't. It was kind of frustrating.
On my playthrough, she hadn’t come to bargain, i went down and sprung ravengard, and she immediately appeared and left some nasties for us to fight
in my first playthrough i skipped gortash and went straight ahead to orin. and wander around the map than opened the mission saving gondiands. ı didnt even knew duke would be there and he wasnt. i learnt from a friend that i was also supposed to save duke in the iron throne. i checked every cell but ı couldnt find him. then i checked on the internet and learnt i was supposed to talk to gortash first. and i went back a few saves and did what has to be done. but now i wonder... if i saved gondians and omelum first, blown up the iron throne, and than talk to gortash, what would happen to duke ravengard?
I haven't personally tried this route, but from what I read, Duke stays with Gortash at the ceremony. Then...
*spoilers following*
...when you go confront Gortash, the entire ceremony room is hostile, including Ravengard and he dies in the fight (even from non-lethal attack). Then you get the same resurrection deal from Mizora as in this video.
Even after saving the duke the dialogue broke for me. I would get both dialogue with him being dead and alive
This happened to me too. I was like, how did the duke die?!?!?! Thanks for this
I didn't recruit Wyll on my first run (totally missed him at act1 lol ) and the Duke was alive at the Iron Throne.
A soul in exchange for a resurrect scroll. Best deal ever
If you don't have Wyll among your companions the Duke is alive and well when you go to the Iron Throne. So literally what this implies is that Mizora finds out that you're on your way to the Iron Throne, panics that she won't have the Duke as a bargaining chip for Wyll and fully kills the guy.
I took the breaking the pact option. But was quick enough to rescue wills father too. So both is possible.
But only if refuse her and THEN go to the prison.
In my first playthrough this part bugged and Wylls father was set free but not in camp and was hostile towards me in gortash tower and mizora acted like he was still trapped
So the duke cant live before you take the deal
What happens, if you try to revive the father too before you speak to Mizora? I assume it's impossible. Also, what happens, if you try to speak with the dead with him, dosshe say something about this whole thing?
I wasn't able to revive him. You can cast Speak with the Dead, but he doesn't say anything new. You can ask about Floric's location, how to defeat the Absolute, and how he got caught.
Asking about the Absolute or how he got caught leads to him telling you about the Wyrm.
@@GamingBirch Thank you!
well i mean for me hes still in the throne room in wyrms crossing and the iron throne is already gone so he sure aint dead.
I remembered this was an option too only after I posted the video and didn't have time to explore it yet.
If you get to it first, let me know what happens when you go to Gortash ;)
@@GamingBirch im probably gonna do it tomorrow. Its a multiplayer save.
I have a save where I just assassinated Gortash after destroying the iron throne but without having met him in his throne room first. I then dipped without killing anyone else but I've yet to see if it saves Ravengard in the endgame.
But what if you save the Duke and then mazora comes to make the deal?
That's the point, you can't save the Duke, because he is dead.
Wyll's quest gets all messed up if you do it out of order.
I like to think she's just in the throne with ravengard, just waiting. The moment gortash makes his Skype call, she just kills ravengard and teleports away.
She knows whenever you open his cell, so this shouldn't be any different.
What doesn't make sense is the effort. Why do all this for ONE soul, one you already had? To save face for (potentially) reducing his sentence?
I don't recall ever meeting Cordula Eltan* :v
Then again, the Iron Throne rescue was one of the last things I have did before the finale (the time limit scared me xD).
* she has a cool armour tho... can I have armour like that for my character? xd
I always talked to Mizora, tokd Wyll, not to do the pact. But then i went to the Iron throne and still saved the father.
She was pissed, she would never admit it, but she was not amused
No idea if that still works after patch 6, though
Very frustrating to go down there, after missing her, and finding the Duke dead.
Makes more sense though, Mizora just letting you go save him after rejecting her offer feels out of character. She's definitely the type to ensure her leverage, especially over her fav pet.
I mean, that is the implication right? She killed him so they'd have to work through her to get him back?
This is literally what happened on my first playthrough. Mizora never "Offered" me anything until after I went to the Iron throne. Honestly I want to know how you get her to come before you get to the Iron Throne.
Can you cast speak with dead on him after taking his body to camp?
Yes, but he doesn't say anything new. You can ask him about Florick, how to defeat the Absolute, and what he was doing in Wakeen's Rest.
He tells you about the Wyrm if asked about the Rest or the Absolute.
Wait where is this location? Never seen this one before
It's In act 3. Across the port from the Steel Watcher factory (or just west from the Counting House)
As disappointing as I'm sure this scenario is, you have to admit it's impressive that Larian thought about all the little details. They considered what would happen if you went to the Iron Throne first, and they considered what would happen if you saved Wyll and then tried to save Ravenguard. As much as that feels like "Well, of course they did", that's something most modern games don't do, and I love that there is still a way to indisputably win, even if it's a bit out of the way
That being said, it still would've been great if Mizora ambushed you while trying to save Ravenguard, and then either teleported him away or killed him. Even if it was a scripted loss, where there's no way to stop her, directly seeing her involved as you try to get ahead of her would have been incredibly awesome and had a level of horror to it that feels appropriate for crossing a devil in a D&D setting
Yeah this storyline needs work. Wyll should have ways to trick this demon. Like the kill then ressurrect karlach was awesome i thought story wise as one of the only times you get to fight back against this demon. But they patched it out :(
It's also the one exploit they decide to fix, while they make sure others work better (like allowing to recruit Minthara).
I guess they just want Wyll to suffer.
Reviving Karlach would null the reward because she's not dead at the time of reward, sort of like putting in an air conditioner into someone's window, taking it out, and then demanding payment. That window has no AC, you didn't fulfill your end of the bargain.
As for Minthara, Larian DIDN'T want to add this, but the playerbase kept finding more and more convoluted ways to bypass the check (seriously, look it up. One method was polymorphing her into a sheep and then fast traveling to Act 2) they probably got tired of both fixing the exploits, getting bug reports from people who modded her in, as well as people outright demanding it, so they caved and added it in almost half a year later.
@@kuronanestimare It's a single player rpg. People finding ways around the game are not hurting a damn thing. lol. They are playing the game the way they want. And honestly, that's the way rpg's are supposed to be played.
The digital realm has limitations of course. But there was no harm in letting karlach and wyll both live. The devil should have or could have been impressed that wyll was playing by the rules of hell, looking for loopholes. Keep the armor, don't give it to him. Punish him with horns. who cares. But why remove it altogether? That was very unimaginative of them.
@@robertstone9342they are telling their story they can let you and not let you do what they want T.T
Have you tried using Speak with Dead on the Duke? Ask him who killed him? Maybe he justs says it was random guard, but maybe be confirms Mizoras involvment
Yes I tried. You can't ask about that.
You can ask where Florick is, how he got captured, and if he knows how to defeat the Absolute.
Options 2 and 3 lead to him talking about the Wyrm.
I was so disappointed about that. I tried to squeeze out every piece of exp before I got to act 3 so I could have all I could to make the fight easier. I sprinted to the iron throne and then.... dead
This scene happened for me when I was Level 12 and had (very easily) killed Raphael. I really wish the game took that into account and my character could take her aside, talk quietly with her with Wyll craning his neck to try and hear while Mizora swallows audibly and glances back over her shoulder at him, then we both return to the group and Mizora's like, "Oh, I just remembered, you've completed 10 tasks for me, so your, ahem (nervous glance to me as I crack a knuckle) devil pact punchcard grants you a free father resurrection! No strings attached! (fidgets with collar) Well, I uh... nice to be of service, I have to go away now."
Oh, that would be hilarious. This needs to be in game.
its a weird failsafe so the deal cutscene/story beat can still happen. Its a lot like how Yenna will always be in your camp whether you accept her into it or not. Oddly enough, i also have a really weird, very specific Duke Ravengard Perishes Story: Husband and i were playing co op and wanted the Fancy Footwork Cheevo, so we set up this crazy elaborate oil/smokepowder/firewine maze behind Gortash's Ceremony Room n start the boss fight right then n there, but unfortunately this meant Ravengard was there. we made extra double sure that he survived the fire maze and that we had Passive Attacks ON. but when my husband smacked him, Mr Duke spontaneously combusted. EACH MEMBER of the party commented on it basically each saying "wtf?! That wasnt an unaliving blow! this must be a trick of the Absolute, surely?!" But Husband and I knew: it was a really really weird failsafe to ensure that the bargain can still happen: Mizora exploded him so she'd have a chip later. We defeat Gortash, get teh cheevo....and then i remember that i was romancing Wyll, so naturally he broke up with me on the grounds that i blew up his dad. BUT. in the dialog with him, there is NO OPTION to explain it wasnt us, it was Mizora. Which kinda irked me. Ultimately Husband and i decided to *not* scum save the fight, so i spent the rest of that playthru alone and annoyed...but! in the party epilogue, if you have no romance partner, Jaheira will offer to make you a Harper, so that was nice :)
Can you resurrect the duke in the prison, perhaps with the scroll of true resurrection
This has to be a bug of some sort. You absolutely can save the Duke in the Iron Throne. However once you do, Mizora will show up and summon exploding spiders to try and kill him.
Yes, but that is if you let Mizora come with the offer before you go to the Iron Throne.
In my first playthrough
I had Wyll sign the deal
But the next thing I did was destroy the Steel Watch factory, not realizing that doing so would result in the Iron Throne being purged
So Wyll gave up his soul for nothing lol
I tried this too, was hoping to get a step ahead of her but seems devs saw through this. The Duke will always be killed if Mizora doesnt visit the camp to make a new deal.
Sanctuary, Mindblast, GG.
why did you only show failing to rescue him?
Because its the only option if you fulfill the premise.
I can’t hear her voice without thinkin of Lohse from DOS2 😆
My character with the Orphic Hammer immediately after the Duke is revived: "Time for the escape clause."
What? Iron Throne? I blew up the Steelforge and didn't know this place existed. RIP.
yeah... same as my first playthrough :D
That is astonishing. I literally skipped the Gortash meeting just because I wanted to experiment with what happens if I don't have Mizora sit around in my camp at all. And now you're telling me that I have to put up with her anyway just so my favorite character's dad doesn't die? Fucking really?!
I am not sure what exactly happens if you skip the meeting. I read that in that case, *_SPOILER_*
Ravengard is not in the Iron Throne, but instead stays at the ceremony, until you decide to deal with Gortash.
Does anyone else find it hillarious that Wyll has to sell his soul to resurect his dad while Withers over there can do that for chump change?