Excellent video. I was looking for a tutorial but after watching about 10 was still looking for one that really showed how to do the testing well. You video really helped me out. Very complete and professional. Thanks!
Great Video. Not sure if I agree with changing the sub volume after each time moving the sub. I think the volume should be kept constant throughout, and then you can see the frequency response and see how the room affects the different frequencies at the different positions. For example, position 1 and 2 appear to have near identical frequency responses below 50hz but is offset by 2db due to the increase in volume by 2db for position 2. If volume was kept constant, then the lines would overlap below 50hz, and would be easier to see at what frequencies the response is different.
Thank you for this detailed video. I followed this video and was able to get good results. However had to pick LFE channel instead of Left channel for doing sweeps. When I picked left channel there was a huge null around 80hz. Even though cross over is set to 250 hz still the actual speaker was impacting results. Once I determined the sub placement by testing with LFE re ran audyssey. Then played with crossover , initially set to 80, still there was a null for left Channel alone. Increased to 90 then null got removed.
Great video. It's crucial to have a mini dsp hd 2x4 and umik-1. I got lucky and have all three seats within 1db. Never know what's going on if you don't measure. For the people who are scared it takes time, until you figure the room out, and patience.
This was the first thing I did when getting my UMIK-1. Had my subs front and center on each side of tv stand and after measuring them they both had a null at the same spot. I took over 40 measurements in the two corners I could place the subs putting the sub facing different directions. I didn't need to label the spots with tape as I pretty much used the wall it was facing and how many inches away it was with moving the sub 6" between each measurement. Interesting enough the spots that looked best were very similar being that both were about 9 inches facing into the wall. Only thing I wish I had done was buy furniture sliders as my back hated me as moving a 70lb sub 40+ times by lifting it wasn't fun.
Hey Brad, I've been watching a lot of your REW videos the past 2 days and want to say thanks for the great content man! I just changed my LCR for the first time 14 years, and went from great towers speakers to in-walls, and now my bass response and output is significantly lower, so I need to do something to fix it. With my old setup I just level matched my speakers to around 75db, set my sub to 79-81db, and use a SPL meter and the distance setting to phase aline my subwoofer to my mains at 80hz, and my room sounded amazing. But now that isn't giving me great results, so I'm going to try take it to the next step... I ordered a UMIK-1 and got REW downloaded and my PC setup to my AVR, so I'm going to start messing around with this today. I see that you set your subwoofer(s) at 75 db, but when I set mine at that level then the Dynamics are almost completely gone in my room. I've been running my sub around 79-81db since I got my SVS PB-1000 2 years ago, and that seems to be the sweet spot for delivering good bass and movies and music, but do you think that would mess up my measurements when trying to find the right crossover and phase align it to the front speakers???
I did something similar but simple. I moved a 8” monolith thx sub To my seat and used a RTA app on my phone while playing a 10-120 hz sweep. I just did a screen shot from different locations and labeled them. I got the idea from home theater guru. It was simple just to get a rough idea on placement.
Great Video - thanks. However a bit of confusion. Reference 6:20 in your video.... Your instruction for setting the sub calibration (after previously performing the Left mains calibration) shows that you have selected the "SubCal" test signal but you have "L" selected at the Output. Should the Output not be "Sub" or "LFE" ??
I *think* the reason is, you're supposed to set the crossover for all channels (including Left channel) to 250Hz (see 3:00 in the video), so only the sub is outputting bass frequencies below that. And you are only inspecting/caring about the low frequency part of the REW graph. So output is still 'L' in REW but the audio that matters is the bass-managed audio that comes out of the sub.
Hi brad. Love your vids and you helped me get amazing sound out of my home theater. I'm trying to get my PC setup better calibrated but Im using a DAC/amp. Do you have any REW vids for this type of use-case?
As always, great info! Do you have any experience with the Dayton Audio iMM-6 calibrated mic? I've been toying around with building a rig for my Master Bedroom using mainly FB Buy/Sell finds using that mic and a MiniDsp 2x4 (non-HD). I found a Yamaha RX-v867, Micca RB42, RB Center, Covo-S (height), OoO (side), Miccs In wall (rear), dual Klipsch R10SWs, Sony UDP700M, and Vizio 55 (replacing with a Hisense U8G 65", with a Govee immersion kit). I purchased a older laptop, and I'm using a usb to HDMI 4K adaptor for use with REW. THANKS!!
I'd still much rather lift it into the seat once and move the mic around! Also, a question on multi sub placement. Once you find the best spot for 1 sub, wouldn't you want to leave it turned on while you move the second one around as the response with both subs together will be more accurate of what to expect than each sub on its own?
Love your videos and have learned so much from you! But i have a question i cant find a answer for. Do you change the distance in the AVR for the sub after changing placement, before measuring with REW? This is just for testing different location. I have 2 subs in front now, but thinking about getting a third. So before i buy a new one, i want to try to use one of the fronts in different positions in the room. So if i am placing the sub behind the sofa, do i change the distance from 11 feet to lets say 4 feet? Hope this make sense😅
Great video… I have a few questions… while playing pink noise for you mains and sub, what’s is the correct level/gain of the “dBFS?”Do I need to unplug my mains while level matching my sub to 75db?
Why move the sub? In a previous video you kept the SUB in the MLP and moved the mic. That method worked in my HT. Thank you for explaining how to do this.
Thanks for the comment. I think you may have me confused with someone else. I haven’t made a video where I’ve kept the sub in the MLP and moved the mic. That could definitely work, but I’ve personally never tried it. But now I want to haha.
Do you suggest getting a minidsp+umik1 for people who are not technical or are new to this HT hobby. Urs and home theater guru channel have made wonderful videos on the sub calibration making it look easy. But again as u said in part 4 of your video that u may not like the response after calibration. This response could be the result of an incorrect calibration done as following your or anyone’s exact settings may not be correct as room mode plays a considerable role. So whats your suggestion here on minidsp+umik1 solution for people those are not technical enough or are new to this hobby and cant tell much about the right and wrongs in sound specially bass.
I have followed this but even with my crossover at 250hz, I run the sub cal pink noise test and sound is still coming from my left front speaker. I assume this shouldn't happen? What do i need to change?
When I follow these directions on my NR1711 and do the sub cal generator (30-80hz), I get sound out of my main left channel also. I checked that audessey is off and my crossovers are at 250hz.
Hey. I have 2 SUBs. I'm not sure this process is really relevant assuming that I have the miniDSP 2x4 HD and I will be looking for the positive summation of the subs when going through the process of aligning them? I mean, if one sub has a null the other sub might compensate it (during the aligning flow). I have 3-5 possible spots for SUB placement and, like I said, 2 subs. Plenty of placement options, but do I really have to bother and look for 2 best individual positions, while I don't know how the summation response will look like..
Move 1 sub to the best position. Then the second to the second best position and play both to see the FR of both together in those spots. Then move the 2nd subwoofer to the 3rd best position and so on and so forth/ Choose the best FR for both subs playing together.
just to understand it right, when bringing the db always to 75, it´s not to calibrate right, it´s just to have the volume all the same, to have equal conditions and compare measurements the right way, am I right ?! because normally I do the calibration once and just move the sub around
Correct, it's just for having equal conditions and to make it easier to pick out the best response in REW since they're all the same level. One could argue that you should only calibrate once and then move the sub around as that will make it easier to see what the room is doing. But personally, I would end up adjusting the level anyway to read 75dB or so as I've never had a good experience with gain matching subwoofers.
Thanks for the video. Does your room have acoustic treatment? Do you have measurements where you can see the RT (T20, T30, Topt), Waterfall, etc, etc? Written with Google translator. Greetings
By altering the volume control/gain control or any other control function on the subwoofer itself you completely destroyed the whole objective of attempting to find the best location in the room for sub integration. All controls on the sub and relative to the sub's output must stay constant, that way you can see the differences on the graph from location to location to location as you move the sub around the room.
Meters and devices do not always agree with what we hear with our ears. Just because a meter tells you something is correct or ideal it does not mean that result will automatically sound the best to you. I have been in the audio industry for 30 years and I always recommend to people to develop a base using instrumentation and then tweak from there using you ears only. Something people fail to realize is that even high end AVRs ship with cheapo mics which are then used to calibrate your system. These auto-calibration systems are in reality terrible. I have found that about 90% of the time these results will net a degradation in sound quality over simply running in pure direct mode or never running any calibration at all. Similarly doing a simple bass crawl using varied and quality source material will net you a much better result than using software. Oftentimes in life less is more and people have a tendency to overcomplicate things. Took me many years to accept this.
Good presentation although i do have a pet hate about the lack of pauses in the dialogue ( popular edit fad ) Comes across as one long sentence. A bit fatiguing.
Excellent video. I was looking for a tutorial but after watching about 10 was still looking for one that really showed how to do the testing well. You video really helped me out. Very complete and professional. Thanks!
Great Video. Not sure if I agree with changing the sub volume after each time moving the sub. I think the volume should be kept constant throughout, and then you can see the frequency response and see how the room affects the different frequencies at the different positions. For example, position 1 and 2 appear to have near identical frequency responses below 50hz but is offset by 2db due to the increase in volume by 2db for position 2. If volume was kept constant, then the lines would overlap below 50hz, and would be easier to see at what frequencies the response is different.
Thank you for this detailed video. I followed this video and was able to get good results. However had to pick LFE channel instead of Left channel for doing sweeps. When I picked left channel there was a huge null around 80hz. Even though cross over is set to 250 hz still the actual speaker was impacting results. Once I determined the sub placement by testing with LFE re ran audyssey. Then played with crossover , initially set to 80, still there was a null for left Channel alone. Increased to 90 then null got removed.
Watched the first 5 minutes and this looks great. Saving for a future project.
Nice video again Brad...maybe you could do a future tutorial on how to use the Room Simulator in REW.
I have had good results using REW Room Simulator
Just got a Umik 1 and will reference this video when it's time to measure etc. Thanks for this awesomeness!
I did it today and it gave me a beautiful curve. Thank you!
Great video. It's crucial to have a mini dsp hd 2x4 and umik-1. I got lucky and have all three seats within 1db. Never know what's going on if you don't measure. For the people who are scared it takes time, until you figure the room out, and patience.
This was the first thing I did when getting my UMIK-1. Had my subs front and center on each side of tv stand and after measuring them they both had a null at the same spot. I took over 40 measurements in the two corners I could place the subs putting the sub facing different directions. I didn't need to label the spots with tape as I pretty much used the wall it was facing and how many inches away it was with moving the sub 6" between each measurement. Interesting enough the spots that looked best were very similar being that both were about 9 inches facing into the wall. Only thing I wish I had done was buy furniture sliders as my back hated me as moving a 70lb sub 40+ times by lifting it wasn't fun.
Hey Brad, I've been watching a lot of your REW videos the past 2 days and want to say thanks for the great content man! I just changed my LCR for the first time 14 years, and went from great towers speakers to in-walls, and now my bass response and output is significantly lower, so I need to do something to fix it. With my old setup I just level matched my speakers to around 75db, set my sub to 79-81db, and use a SPL meter and the distance setting to phase aline my subwoofer to my mains at 80hz, and my room sounded amazing. But now that isn't giving me great results, so I'm going to try take it to the next step... I ordered a UMIK-1 and got REW downloaded and my PC setup to my AVR, so I'm going to start messing around with this today.
I see that you set your subwoofer(s) at 75 db, but when I set mine at that level then the Dynamics are almost completely gone in my room. I've been running my sub around 79-81db since I got my SVS PB-1000 2 years ago, and that seems to be the sweet spot for delivering good bass and movies and music, but do you think that would mess up my measurements when trying to find the right crossover and phase align it to the front speakers???
I did something similar but simple. I moved a 8” monolith thx sub
To my seat and used a RTA app on my phone while playing a 10-120 hz sweep. I just did a screen shot from different locations and labeled them. I got the idea from home theater guru. It was simple just to get a rough idea on placement.
love your vids!
Great video!
I would recommend the UMIK-2 microphone and the Dirac Live Room Correction Suite.
very informative, I am trying out sub setup with REW
Great Video - thanks. However a bit of confusion. Reference 6:20 in your video.... Your instruction for setting the sub calibration (after previously performing the Left mains calibration) shows that you have selected the "SubCal" test signal but you have "L" selected at the Output. Should the Output not be "Sub" or "LFE" ??
I *think* the reason is, you're supposed to set the crossover for all channels (including Left channel) to 250Hz (see 3:00 in the video), so only the sub is outputting bass frequencies below that. And you are only inspecting/caring about the low frequency part of the REW graph. So output is still 'L' in REW but the audio that matters is the bass-managed audio that comes out of the sub.
Hi brad. Love your vids and you helped me get amazing sound out of my home theater. I'm trying to get my PC setup better calibrated but Im using a DAC/amp. Do you have any REW vids for this type of use-case?
As always, great info! Do you have any experience with the Dayton Audio iMM-6 calibrated mic? I've been toying around with building a rig for my Master Bedroom using mainly FB Buy/Sell finds using that mic and a MiniDsp 2x4 (non-HD). I found a Yamaha RX-v867, Micca RB42, RB Center, Covo-S (height), OoO (side), Miccs In wall (rear), dual Klipsch R10SWs, Sony UDP700M, and Vizio 55 (replacing with a Hisense U8G 65", with a Govee immersion kit). I purchased a older laptop, and I'm using a usb to HDMI 4K adaptor for use with REW. THANKS!!
Thank you, Brad. For Marantz or Denon, instead of turning Audessy off, can't you just put the receiver into Pure Direct Mode?
Nope it disables the subs completely
I'd still much rather lift it into the seat once and move the mic around! Also, a question on multi sub placement. Once you find the best spot for 1 sub, wouldn't you want to leave it turned on while you move the second one around as the response with both subs together will be more accurate of what to expect than each sub on its own?
I was wondering the same thing
How far are you moving the sub between measurements??
Love your videos and have learned so much from you! But i have a question i cant find a answer for. Do you change the distance in the AVR for the sub after changing placement, before measuring with REW? This is just for testing different location. I have 2 subs in front now, but thinking about getting a third. So before i buy a new one, i want to try to use one of the fronts in different positions in the room. So if i am placing the sub behind the sofa, do i change the distance from 11 feet to lets say 4 feet? Hope this make sense😅
Great video… I have a few questions… while playing pink noise for you mains and sub, what’s is the correct level/gain of the “dBFS?”Do I need to unplug my mains while level matching my sub to 75db?
No you don't have to unplug your mains because you set the crossover up to 250 or highest and set REW to 20- 200 htz for the sub measurements.
Hello... Can we not leave the level on the sub and match level with the reciever level on every measure to match the same sound levels?
Hi, what about phase? Should we switch phase from 0 to 180 to see the response?
How many inches were you moving the sub each time? How much space away from any wall is suggested as a starting point?
Why move the sub? In a previous video you kept the SUB in the MLP and moved the mic. That method worked in my HT.
Thank you for explaining how to do this.
Thanks for the comment. I think you may have me confused with someone else. I haven’t made a video where I’ve kept the sub in the MLP and moved the mic. That could definitely work, but I’ve personally never tried it. But now I want to haha.
Home theater gamer vs home theater gurus. Different white bald guys haha.
Well it's better than being asked if he kidnapped the chipmunks. 🤣
@@trishpipkins OMG Too funny. It took me a minute, but I finally got it. Thanks for laugh!
Nice video. Sorry if I missed it, but where do you put your umik-1? at your listening position ?
Yes
Do you suggest getting a minidsp+umik1 for people who are not technical or are new to this HT hobby. Urs and home theater guru channel have made wonderful videos on the sub calibration making it look easy. But again as u said in part 4 of your video that u may not like the response after calibration. This response could be the result of an incorrect calibration done as following your or anyone’s exact settings may not be correct as room mode plays a considerable role. So whats your suggestion here on minidsp+umik1 solution for people those are not technical enough or are new to this hobby and cant tell much about the right and wrongs in sound specially bass.
I have followed this but even with my crossover at 250hz, I run the sub cal pink noise test and sound is still coming from my left front speaker. I assume this shouldn't happen? What do i need to change?
When I follow these directions on my NR1711 and do the sub cal generator (30-80hz), I get sound out of my main left channel also. I checked that audessey is off and my crossovers are at 250hz.
But only the sub is outputting frequencies below ~250, and that is the part of the graph you are interested in. So I think this is normal.
When I click on the GREEN play button to test SPL, no sound comes out of speakers ? Any clue why?
Hey. I have 2 SUBs. I'm not sure this process is really relevant assuming that I have the miniDSP 2x4 HD and I will be looking for the positive summation of the subs when going through the process of aligning them? I mean, if one sub has a null the other sub might compensate it (during the aligning flow). I have 3-5 possible spots for SUB placement and, like I said, 2 subs. Plenty of placement options, but do I really have to bother and look for 2 best individual positions, while I don't know how the summation response will look like..
How do you measure 2 subs? Do you measure them individually? Then pick the best of the two? Or do you test them together at the same time?
Move 1 sub to the best position. Then the second to the second best position and play both to see the FR of both together in those spots. Then move the 2nd subwoofer to the 3rd best position and so on and so forth/ Choose the best FR for both subs playing together.
just to understand it right, when bringing the db always to 75, it´s not to calibrate right, it´s just to have the volume all the same, to have equal conditions and compare measurements the right way, am I right ?!
because normally I do the calibration once and just move the sub around
Correct, it's just for having equal conditions and to make it easier to pick out the best response in REW since they're all the same level. One could argue that you should only calibrate once and then move the sub around as that will make it easier to see what the room is doing. But personally, I would end up adjusting the level anyway to read 75dB or so as I've never had a good experience with gain matching subwoofers.
I am doing this biut all the sound is comin out of my left speaker not the sub?? wtf am i doing wrong
Thanks for the video.
Does your room have acoustic treatment?
Do you have measurements where you can see the RT (T20, T30, Topt), Waterfall, etc, etc?
Written with Google translator.
Greetings
But how you can find your best seat spot in your room ? Wich is tthe way?
By altering the volume control/gain control or any other control function on the subwoofer itself you completely destroyed the whole objective of attempting to find the best location in the room
for sub integration.
All controls on the sub and relative to the sub's output must stay constant, that way you can see the differences on the graph from location to location to location as you move the sub around the room.
Meters and devices do not always agree with what we hear with our ears. Just because a meter tells you something is correct or ideal it does not mean that result will automatically sound the best to you. I have been in the audio industry for 30 years and I always recommend to people to develop a base using instrumentation and then tweak from there using you ears only. Something people fail to realize is that even high end AVRs ship with cheapo mics which are then used to calibrate your system. These auto-calibration systems are in reality terrible. I have found that about 90% of the time these results will net a degradation in sound quality over simply running in pure direct mode or never running any calibration at all. Similarly doing a simple bass crawl using varied and quality source material will net you a much better result than using software. Oftentimes in life less is more and people have a tendency to overcomplicate things. Took me many years to accept this.
Good presentation although i do have a pet hate about the lack of pauses in the dialogue ( popular edit fad ) Comes across as one long sentence. A bit fatiguing.