Like a numbskull, I forgot to mention in the video that you CAN use the subwoofer distance setting in the receiver or pre/pro to adjust the alignment between the speakers and subwoofer. The subwoofer distance setting is actually just a glorified "alignment" setting. I forgot to mention this in my video as Audyssey did a great job and set it spot on to where it needed to be, which I verified using REW and testing various subwoofer distance settings. The reason I chose to use the miniDSP to input the delay is you have finer, more granular control over that of most AVR distance settings, and you may also be limited to how much delay in feet or meters you can add in your receiver. In my case with my receiver, I could only add 6 more feet in my receiver, which simply wasn't enough.
It is my understanding that the distance settings in the AVR will apply a delay to the speakers with the shortest distance. Can the miniDSP apply a delay to the mains?
Audyssey will only let you put in a distance that is about 20 feet from your Mains. What do you do then if you want to do it on the AVR? My Audyssey set the distance to 14.7.. The alignment tool is 33.10 feet. Audyssey will only take 23.6 feet not the 47.8 feet that you suggest I use.
if I’m running 4 subs do I use both subwoofer outputs? Like sub output 1 used for front two subs and sub output 2 for the rears…Or just use one sub output into the dsp for all 4?
Great VDO series on MINI DSP 2x4 HD Brad. I went through all channels from diffrent You Tuber as suggested by You. They are all good. What I like most in your Mini DSP series is the way You have explained and ordered every thing step by step as if You are teaching to primary school students. And that is what we all are in Audio physics world. After seeing your videos repeatedly, I realised that Mini DSP is essential part of any Home Theatre set-up. It is merely 10-15% to less than 1% of your total equipment cost depending on your Home Theatre set-up. Finally, I purchaed one and together with Mini DSP UMIK-1, deep dived in calibrating my set up, of course with the help of your Videos. After several days of hard work, I reached a point where I found 75-80% improvement in sound quality. Remaining little bit problem is in the region of 80-100 hz freq. but it may be due to Front speakers as mentioned by You and Mini DSP is not controlling Fronts. I have attached 2 images of REW curves, Before & After calibration, in a mail sent to You. It's not perfect, I know, but just to show You how far my system has improved watching your Videos. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge. Looking forward to many more VDOs in the future. 👍
Man I recently got my MiniDsp 2x4HD with Umik-1 and watched the Home Theater Guru video on using REW. I thought I did a pretty good job calibrating my 4 subs. When I saw your video I instantly knew I was only halfway through. Thanks for taking the time to do. A very detailed tutorial video series. I'll be working on finishing up really soon. Can't wait to implement your suggestions and improve my sound experience even further!
I have watched all of the videos on the miniDSP and followed your instructions. I have lifted the sound in my home theater to a whole new level. Thank you for your vids that are so easy to follow and give great results!
I watched all four of the videos and they were are very helpful and concise. This one, however, was probably the most beneficial as aligning the subs with the mains is often neglected by others. Thank you for taking the time to provide a concise, quick tutorial of the minidsp and REW.
I wasn't totally happy with my Denon X4300H and decided to invest in the MiniDSP and UMIK-1 before spending a pile of money replacing it. These 4 videos have been extremely helpful in getting my two subs and resultant sound tuned to the point that I'm really happy with what my ears are now hearing and so is the wife. My only two comments are that initially I had the same problem as others have had and was getting apparently no sound from the subs at the first stage of the process, but it was user error and I hadn't set the gain high enough and neither elected the right sample frequency. Also I'm running this on a MAC and can't get the ASIO drivers. I have tried watching other tutorials on the same subject but I find this series to be the easiest for me to follow and is a very informative. Thanks!
Fallowed this whole guide. I have to say that my two Rythmik subs are waaaay more present in the room. It sounds so good! I still felt the need to add +3db on the sub trim in the my AVR to get a fatter bottom end in my room but still.. Sound amazing!
I used your Part-1-4 to align my Hsu VTF-3 Mk5, and an old BIC PL200. The results are phenomenal!! No more boomy bass, the bass is well balanced and I hear very clean and well balanced bass. There is so much more bass hear now, I have to start re-watching all my collections again!! Thank you!
Wow. Before this I was running all my speakers at 80hz like most people. Afterwards I'm now at mains at 110, center at 60, surrounds and atmos at 90. The sound is incredible and I've got an amazing curve on top of it thanks to you.
@@HomeTheaterGamer 2 Hsu vtf3 mk5s (15inch drivers) 3 PSA MTM 210s in the front, Klipsch rs502 surrounds and some RS8 in ceiling I believe (5.2.2) I was shocked that the center was best at 60hz and mains at 110, even though they are all identical. I would guess because they are so close to the wall. But MAN. I thought people were exaggerating when they described bass as tight and punchy, but it is certainly punching me now. It's like watching everything like I've never seen it. Your guide was EASILY the best and most concise here on youtube. Some others were unclear, others took a lot of extra steps to get to the same point as you. One short cut I did try out that I ultimately went with, was aiming for as flat a response in the DSP as possible; load that to output side, and then on the input side of PEQ add a low shelf curve. It worked wonders! Avoids having to do trial and error with multiple band EQs.
I laughed my butt off when you said: "a hundred" is a Florida thing. I also live in FL and say " a hundred" 🤣🤣🤣 On a another token: I'm following your tutorials to the letter. Thank you so much!
Another great video Brad! I have learnt a lot about REW and mini dsp from these videos! You are right I noticed absence of bass after PEQ , I thought I made my system worse, but after a few days I decided to increase the bass level in the avr , that made it better. Excellent series 👍🏽
Great work in this series, had these videos playing on the ipad while following along. Really noticeable changes in my room. Thank you for doing these!
Wow Brad great videos! Thanks for taking the time to make these on the mini DSP. I've watched 1 thru 4 and Unless I missed it, you don't speak about what the speaker distances should be set at on the receiver. On the mains, it doesn't really matter because you're adjusting the subs delay in the mini DSP, but you're not adjusting the center or rear delay in the mini DSP, those would need to be done in the reciever. Hope that makes sense.
Thanks for the comment! Yeah… this was a guide from a few years ago. I’ve learned many, many things over the past few years. I’m working on an updated calibration series that goes over setting distances (and pretty much everything else as well).
Thanks for the tutorial, much appreciated. Question for you about the REW alignment tool info @10:30 mark where you chose Align Phase Slopes at cursor instead of the one below that is Align Phase at cursor. I'm wondering what the differences between the two is, and why you chose one over the other? In my case, the phase slope at cursor gives me a worse graph than just phase at cursor. Not sure why, so I figured I'd ask. I also want to point out that some AVRs such as my own Pioneer Elite SC-99, only allow for one global crossover point as opposed to allowing different crossovers for every speaker. Pioneer does give an explanation for why they do it that way, but not every manufacturer works the same way.
I can only imagine haha. I’d love to check that out, but unfortunately my current receiver doesn’t have pre-outs, so I’d have to jump through some hoops in order to do it.
@@anandshah71 10x10 you can run eq on every channel. So you can set every speakers you have (left, right, center, rears etc) with REW Eq. 10 inputs 10 outputs. The 2x4 is for four subs.
the dip on the crossover point could be your subs is not in phase with your front. try reverse your subs polarity. By the way, did you time align your left and right speaker first before align it with the subs.
Great tutorials. I have a question about my marantz sr7010. It confuses me because you can't use the audyssey app with it. Can't I use a house curve or what do I have to different? Thanks in advance
Hey Brad, What setting do you mean with ''overall output'' when you say that you can add more bass if you want to?! Are you talking about input 1, or are you talking about the output settings (I have 2 subs, so I need to boost them both then). thnx
I have now watched these 4 videos a couple of times and fell somewhat confident in doing it my self. There are some level things that im in doubt of. 1. at what avr level do you run your sweeps? 2. After level matched the subs and basically done all from video 3, then I run audyssey. Audyssey will properly say volume is too high , I then turn down on minidsp. after audyssey do I then turn minisdsp up again and then follow your spl rew level match video and level match the subwoofer and mains with rew and avr levels?
Quick question regarding the MiniDSP, once your finished settings everything up with the MiniDSP on the computer can the settings then be sent to the MiniDSP device itself so you can disconnect the computer altogether? For example USB power to the device and only inline with the LFE input/s and output/s? And no computer/software required. Thanks Mike
Did all your steps , i choose the best response in rew to my eyes after alignement but Could you tell me why using 120hz cross over in my room was giving me narrow bass realy feel like my sub where cheap , but when choosing 80hz it was day and night very good bass overall the room , thanks
Hi Brad,I plan on getting someone to calibrate my system with the umik1 and the mini dsp 2x4hd.What cables do I need?Is it 2 usb cables, 1 for the umik1 and 1 for the mini dsp and 1 hdmi for the pc to go go the receiver?This is too complicated unfortunately for me.Thanks Chris
When you measure the left and right at around 20:12, what actually do you do when you do have a dip?! I have one on my left speaker and I would love to get rid of it. Thanks!
This video is awesome and worked out great for me. @Home Theater Gamer My one question is when you aligned the sub to the mains you got only negative numbers what if they are positive numbers?
Before all the alignments using rew+mini dsp. What do we do with the distance of subs in the avr? Should it be set to zero or do manual distance and set the distance. Or first step is to use room correction and use the sub distance set as our starting point to proceed with the alignments using rew+mini dsp?
I have only watched your mini dsp series so far, but I plan to watch more now that I can see how detailed and thorough you are in your videos. Chalk up another subscriber! I have a few questions about the nulls? Are the nulls more related to the design/frequency response of the speakers themselves or the in room response? Would applying a boost in EQ within the receiver at those frequencies just undo everything you just did? I’m getting my mini dsp this week and am now confident with your tutorial and the insight from home theater gurus that I can make it work. Thanks again for this valuable resource and I hope your hard work pays off in subscriber count and future successes.
I did meassure the subs with the mains unhooked but each crossover has the exact same results. How can that be (LFE is set to 120)? And what would you do if the allignment tool shows positive delays for the front speakers? You can't add negative delays to the sub so how to proceed?
For non left and right speakers did you have to get new delay numbers? Or did you use the delay numbers from l+r and then run the sweeps and different xovers?
How does running Audyssey affect all these time delay adjustments? Won't audyssey detect the speaker distance, apply a delay, and blow up everything that was done in the MiniDSP?
Just trying your method today Brad, very interesting approach, but my problem is I'm using DDRC 24, the delay limits for each output channel are set to 30ms, so I can't use any number bigger than 30, any suggestion on that? Thanks a lot!
Hi. While using the “align phase slope at cursor” using the alignment tool, all was going well but at 100hz and 120hz (my avr does not have 110hz) cross over, i instead of getting a negative number got a positive number. How do i use this positive number for adding a delay to all subs in the minidsp hd. (I mean, we are to treat the negative number as a positive and add that to the subwoofer delays in the minidsp hd). Confused here, please help.
Hey brad, love the channel! Why don’t you use the process used for the Center and surrounds for the mains? , wouldn’t that save a whole bunch of time ?
You have 2 subs up front set up near the L and R mains. Wouldn't it be easier, any maybe better, to run the full range L signal through the L sub and speaker, and the full range R signal through the R sub and speaker. Patch in the LFE channel to both subs. Set a high pass filter around 120hz on the subs and then boom the front 2 subs are done. Would that not work?
I had another thought after buying a denon receiver that has top atmos speakers. ASIO4all may not support atmos, but if you unplug your surrounds and plug your atmos into those outputs, you can at least run a REW sweep to find a crossover. Just don't forget what you had your surrounds set at, because you will have to adjust them back in the receiver.
Thanks for this series, I'm going to be using these videos to setup my own home system. Before I run the subs, would you suggest I run REW without the subs and see what EQ response I get from the main speakers and adjust their EQ on my receiver for a flat response, and then do the subs, and then figure out the best crossover, or is EQing the speakers just trying to do too much? I have a yamaha RX-V381 so it is a lower end AVR, but if I remember I have seen a setting to adjust the EQ if I don't want to use the YPAO.
Thanks for commenting! You can try, but the issue I’ve found on a lot of receivers is that they only allow you to apply manual EQ to speaker pairs, not individual speakers (the center channel being the outlier obviously). That can lead to some issues in response.
i have thoughts about the frequency response, your whole series was about the mic measurement, but if you sit in listening position and do a slow sweep from 15hz to 200hz and it dont sound like the graph looks like, then your ear says is not correct and you must do corrections. it should sound like even loudness across the board. Any reply for me on this topic? i just got a hold of minidsp SHD studio and no mic was in the box, at one point i want a mic and do measurement also.
Great info here, thanks Brad! Question: Rather than inputting the delays separately into each of the 3 sub output channels independently, could you have input the delay once into input #1 and have affected all the subs equally the same? I am going to be setting up a stereo + 2 sub music system using a stereo preamp that has analog bass filters, but does not have any delay functionality.
Nice video, but there is one thing i dont understand and maybe it was in one of your previous videos. But where does the number 4,2 in your left sub come from is that the actual distance or is that the number you got after using audyccey or just a random number. This counts also for the other numbers in your other subs ofcourse.
Hey Home Theater Gamer. You just won over another subscriber. Your MiniDSP videos are the most detailed and understandable of ALL the videos I've watch so far, and I have watched a few. I recently purchase my DSP and Mic. I have not started yet. However, I do have a question. I am not getting how to get my FLR, C, Surrounds, & back speakers on the system to get the curves. How do I make the connection? I have Denon 8500h AVR, & 2 Monolith 7x200. My Subs are SVS - 2 PB 4000 & 1 Ultra PB 16. Thanks,
Thank you so much, Charles! I really appreciate it! To get sound from each individual speaker, you'll need to make sure your Denon is hooked to your PC through HDMI and that you have installed and configured Room EQ Wizard and ASIO4ALL. I actually made a video that walked you through settings both of those things up. You can find it here👉th-cam.com/video/Rzl2jYeZtsw/w-d-xo.html.
So do you do this step after running audyssey? Should I have dynamic eq off if doing this or using a house curve on my sub? I ran audyssey after spending a lot of time and my curve has been obliterated. Hoping this step, addresses it.
I faced the same issue, then worked at the curve (again), then followed the rest of the steps in this video. I hope I didn't do something really bad for my system.
@@abdullaalthahaba1693 so I wanted to utilize dynamic eq. I looked at what affect it had in my curve and it really bumped up the low frequency sounds. So when I made a flat curve and used dyn eq, it in essence, looked like a house curve. I used the output eq to get a flat response, ran audyssey which messed it up a bit, and then used the 10 input eq's to get a reasonable response I'm pretty happy with the response and no longer have any crazy peaks or dips from 20-120hz. Plus I get to use dynamic eq which definitely makes my surrounds and Atmos speakers pop.
If you have the MultEQ-X app, after you run Audyssey, you bring the frequency range curtain down to the lowest it goes so the AVR doesn't touch your curve
Thanks, extremely helpful walk through. I enjoy the speed at which you run through. Can you advise on what steps are necessary if you have a big null/dip early in the sub frequency, ie 50/60hz etc.
Maybe trying raising the cross over on the mains? Is everything time aligned? Do u have mini DSP? And ran REW. Is it a null with mains or without. If it’s without, likely a room issue or not aligned/we’d properly. Good luck 😎. I’ve spent countless days working on this main/sub
I followed this tutorial today and bumped into an issue. The delays suggested by REW came into the positives when I set the crossover to 100 Hz and up. I wasn't sure what to do with that since you can't have negative delays. So, I thought I would go into the AVR and increase the subwoofer distance, but that wasn't possible. The AVR (Denon X4500H) gave me an error message saying that the delays were set incorrect. Any ideas on how to deal with this? I ended up setting the crossover at 90 Hz. That looked fine up until about 110 Hz, but then there was a nasty dip there, which isn't present in the sub response. I'm not sure why. Perhaps Audyssey messed up the respone of my mains (I told it to EQ 300 Hz and below on all speakers but the subs). I'll have to dig some more. Perhaps I'll have to invest in Audyssey's new PC software to edit the target response curve on the mains to get it perfect.
Great content. I’m a complete noob on room correction, time alignment etc but at first I thought the MiniDSP was used as a calibration tool but then I noticed the time delays where never transferred to the receiver, only the crossover values. Does this mean the MiniDSP will have to remain in place? I guess this makes sense because the receiver does not have a built-in DSP like a pre/pro such as the HTP-1?
Great video series Brad, I've learned a lot! One thing I'm not following. In Videos 2, 3, & 6 the REW testing output was just to the L speaker. I got my house curve hitting from 85-75db spot on for the sub, then ran Audyssey and used the app to remove the EQ tweaking. Tested again using L and kept my 85-75bdb drop. Starting with Video 4 you switch to L+R, and my subs response jumps up to 95+db measured in the room. I'm not following why we worked so hard to get the curve using just L then switching to L+R seems to ruin it? What did I do wrong?
This is an awesome series. Would putting the atmos speakers in the front left and right speaker inputs, running the room correction software with the subs, then run crossover measurements be a good way of selecting the best crossover for the atmos speakers?
Hey buddy, great content!! I have been following this series and I have a quick question. I have already time aligned my subs, as well as created a house curve for them. Do I run Audyssey first, before doing the crossover points?
Hello, thank you for this amazing set of videos on a very detailed explanation on how to set up the mini DSP. I do have one question how would the settings change if I increased the volume on the subwoofers themselves? Well Irene need to re-run the whole calibration process over?
Very much enjoyed watching your 4 part series and very informative. I have followed all the steps but unfortunately my Marantz SR7010 is not listed for the multi editor app so all the hard work to try and time align my subs as been blown out the water after re running Audyssey xt32. So I’ve basically had to go in after Audyssey and manually set the crossovers and levels and leave it at that.
Hello Brad, I have been watching all of your videos while I learn this world of audio and REW. I have noticed that some of your videos cover similar things and I am going back and forth between them to set my system up. I have a newer Denon x3800h that has individual sub outs and I am running 2 SVS PB1000Pros that give me the ability to set 3 parametric EQ filters which you cover in another video. I’m basically using like 3-4 of your videos to do this all, so I combined them into a list below. If you have time, can you please look this over and tell me if there is something I’m missing or should change to optimize my setup? Also, I’m sure things have changed since your videos, seems ASIO4ALL isn’t necessary anymore since you have the option to run your UMIK in the EXCL input setting that gives you the ability to do multiple channels.
Step 1: Turn off Audyssey and set subs and speakers to OdB and also set all XOs to 250Hz, Also disable Parametric EQ. Step 2: Level match the Front Left speaker to 75db(notate volume) using REW Generator and SPL meter. Select speaker cal in generator. Then set to sub cal in generator and level match each Sub to 78dB using gain on the subs. Step 3: Take a Raw baseline measurement of each sub and both together. Frequency 10-200Hz Step 4: Use Parametric EQ on each sub(turn the other off) to determine the best phase/polarity setting for each sub. Step 5: Take a measurement of both subs to verify improvement over raw after PEQ adjustments. Step 6: Run Audyssey. You'll have to lower the previously set gains, but notate what they were. -7 right/-14 Left. Step 7: Set XOs to 80Hz. Turn off Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, but leave Audyssey on and set sub gains back to level matched gains and ensure Parametric EQ is on. Step 8: Open generator and SPL, select Left speaker and select speaker cal. Run Pink Random and set receiver volume until you hit 75dB. Step 9: Take a measurement of L+R 10-200Hz and notate sub distance and XO. Step 10: Find the lowest null point and notate Frequency and dB level you need to achieve. Step 11: Open Generator and SPL meter and set frequency to the notated null frequency. Play pink noise and adjust sub distance until the notated dB is achieved(should be the line of the surrounding peaks) **Note: you can verify by playing the null frequency tone and seeing if the SPL is reading the null point frequency** Step 11.2: if you can't get to the target db by adjusting sub distance, your XO is probably too low. Measure the closest you could get with this XO and sub distance adjustment for record by doing another L+R measurement. Step 12: Set appropriate XO from 80-120Hz that allows you to adjust the sub distance to get to the target dB for that null. (100-110Hz in my case) Step 13: Open Generator and SPL meter and set frequency to the notated null frequency on the optimal XO, Play pink noise and adjust sub distance until the notated dB is achieved. Optional: Set sub back to original Audyssey distance and take measurement with the new optimal XO for reference to compare against the next step. Step 15: Notate new lowest null point frequency on optimal XO and record frequency and target dB. Step 16: Open Generator and SPL and set frequency to the notated one and play pink noise, adjusting sub distance until you hit the notated dB level which completes sub calibration. Step 17: Take a L+R measurement of the new optimal XO and optimal sub distance and compare it to the original Audyssey set one at 80Hz & the best adjusted sub distance one at 80Hz and confirm your new XO and distance is the best. Step 18: move on to speakers to verify nothing weird happened. A further check you could do from here is confirming Level matched speakers by following this video and notate the follow up video, th-cam.com/video/KzzZUejwiYE/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/Lv3PsNK0z-A/w-d-xo.html
Great videos thank you for posting these....my question is what if all your measurements come back as a positive in the delays. How do you perform a offset in Minidsp with that as you can't put in a negative number. Would I perform that offset in the receiver? Thanks
Still using the older ver 5.19 of REW. I don't see the same time alignment tool you see. Mine does not calculate a delay at all. Do I need a newer version to be able to use (see) this feature? Thanks
I’m not sure exactly which version added the alignment tool, but I believe it was added to the official release sometime early in 2020. It certainly wouldn’t hurt to upgrade to a newer version.
@@HomeTheaterGamer Thanks I'll give it a try. As I recall I stayed on the older version as I found the interface less cluttered. Keep up the good work.
Great series Brad! This was a very interesting method of selecting crossovers. Based on your results, did you see a pattern with the optimal crossovers in relation to the low cutoff of your speakers? Curious if the general rule of thumb of 10hz-20hz above the low cutoff held up or not.
In all honesty, not really. The front left and right speakers I own (Pioneer FS52 floor standers) are rated to 40Hz, but realistically aren’t very capable until around 50-60Hz. I think that speaker and sub placement as well as the room itself will dictate the optimal crossover point more so than the speakers themselves. I wish I knew a professional audio calibrator because I’d love to get their take and what their experiences have been.
@@HomeTheaterGamer Thanks, that makes sense. I always thought that rule was over simplified. Realistically there are many factors like delays and distance as well as SBIR which is related to placement of your main speakers and subs in the room as you said.
I wish I knew how to use all that stuff. I would love to use that in my room and add my other subs. Just flying blind now. You aren’t near Wisconsin are you?
Unfortunately I’m in Florida (both answering your question and how I feel about Florida in general haha). I have thought about doing a “calibration tour” of sorts before, where I go to a specific state and general area where I could schedule calibrations ahead of time. I’m not opposed to that idea but it unfortunately wouldn’t be a free service unless I could get sponsored by a few brands.
My last 2 calibrations were by Jeff from accucal. He’s not around anymore. He used to set up tours of areas to calibrate. I think I paid him like $500 each time he came.
I have tried this and got different results than if I left everything on JAVA. Since the method I used in the video requires playing both the left and right front speakers together, hence the L+R output setting in REW, I'd just leave it on JAVA for the time being.
Why would you adjust the delay to your subs after you've done a room curve? Wouldn't that just mess up the room curve you created for the subs? Why not just add delay to your speakers in the avr? i.e. go to speaker distance, switch it from ft to ms, and add the delay.
I'm currently using the 2X4 standard version which can store the config onto the on-board memory so I can disconnect the USB from the computer. Can I do the same with the 2x4HD which I just ordered?
Thanks for the comment! Just for clarification: I didn’t crossover my subwoofers at all within the MiniDSP or adjust settings there. Everything crossover related is controlled by the receiver, which I ended up crossing everything over at 110Hz for the smoothest response in my particular space. Sorry if there was any confusion within the video.
Hello, can you help me please? I don't get any sound when I'm taking measurements. From my laptop to Marantz. I do not know what I'm doing wrong . On the Marantz I set -17.5db but when I go to measure I don't get any sound. Thank you, greetings from Austria.
Also you need to use the left main or right main as an acoustic timing reference for the alignment tool to be valid. This is an option when you make a measurement. It is just a little chirp that the speaker makes before every sweep. Doesn't add any time for measuring so might as well always do measurements with the timing reference on.
The only issue with using the acoustic timing reference with this method is that at one point, you need to disconnect the main speakers completely to isolate the subs from the mains. Obviously at that point, you won’t get any sound from the left or right main speakers, which means no acoustic timing reference will be played. I’ve tried this without disconnecting the mains and just using a high 250Hz crossover while using the acoustic timing reference, but the results weren’t great and actually worse than the method used in this video.
@@HomeTheaterGamer so to get the sub with an acoustic reference using the left main as the acoustic reference, disconnect the right main, and run the output only through the right main. Works perfectly
@@gregwilde6352 I'm using a Mac, and center channel works. But as long as you're here :) change of topic: all my subs delays are negative (L+R positive), which the video doesn't discuss.
Unfortunately when it comes too subwoofers Low frequencies. Our ears can not detect alignment phase. You can not locate..look up Geddes using multiple sub woofers too correct room. He did his PHD in the 80s Doing time alignment for subs you will not hear 👂 You
Except we can detect massive nulls in the subwoofer response with our ears due to phase cancellation and incorrect phase, which the whole point of aligning subwoofers with one another using measurement tools. The Geddes approach or method is just that, a method but not the end all be all solution for everyone. Most people can't place their subwoofers above the center line of their room anyway, so the Geddes approach simply won't work for multiple people. Even then, throwing 3-4 subs randomly in a room can still have a negative impact on frequency response, which can be negated by making sure they are properly time aligned together to create "one virtual subwoofer."
That’s with the crossover implemented, so the sub is taking care of everyone from around 100Hz and below (if it’s the part I’m thinking of in the video you’re referring to).
A big mistake only the single crossover frequency is examined, not the range in which the loudspeakers overlap, there is still a lot of potential for improvement according to the method shown in this video.
Brad why you dont go to impulse for making alignment all speakers and also the sub exactly time alignment with speakers... And then just play with crossover... This is not good technic and also the speakers they dont have to be alignment exactly??? I dont think audyssey making good alignment right???
That is always an option, especially if you aren’t a DIY type of person. Personally, I find it fun and consider it a part of the home theater hobby I love so much. You don’t need to be a computer nerd or engineer to figure this stuff out, but you do need to be tech savvy and computer literate enough to know your way around some of the software and components.
Like a numbskull, I forgot to mention in the video that you CAN use the subwoofer distance setting in the receiver or pre/pro to adjust the alignment between the speakers and subwoofer. The subwoofer distance setting is actually just a glorified "alignment" setting. I forgot to mention this in my video as Audyssey did a great job and set it spot on to where it needed to be, which I verified using REW and testing various subwoofer distance settings. The reason I chose to use the miniDSP to input the delay is you have finer, more granular control over that of most AVR distance settings, and you may also be limited to how much delay in feet or meters you can add in your receiver. In my case with my receiver, I could only add 6 more feet in my receiver, which simply wasn't enough.
Do you mean that if the sub is at 12 ft distance, 12ft setting might not be the best one?
It is my understanding that the distance settings in the AVR will apply a delay to the speakers with the shortest distance. Can the miniDSP apply a delay to the mains?
What do you set the distance at on the avr/processor ??
Audyssey will only let you put in a distance that is about 20 feet from your Mains. What do you do then if you want to do it on the AVR? My Audyssey set the distance to 14.7.. The alignment tool is 33.10 feet. Audyssey will only take 23.6 feet not the 47.8 feet that you suggest I use.
if I’m running 4 subs do I use both subwoofer outputs? Like sub output 1 used for front two subs and sub output 2 for the rears…Or just use one sub output into the dsp for all 4?
underrated youtuber
Great VDO series on MINI DSP 2x4 HD Brad.
I went through all channels from diffrent You Tuber as suggested by You. They are all good. What I like most in your Mini DSP series is the way You have explained and ordered every thing step by step as if You are teaching to primary school students. And that is what we all are in Audio physics world.
After seeing your videos repeatedly, I realised that Mini DSP is essential part of any Home Theatre set-up. It is merely 10-15% to less than 1% of your total equipment cost depending on your Home Theatre set-up.
Finally, I purchaed one and together with Mini DSP UMIK-1, deep dived in calibrating my set up, of course with the help of your Videos. After several days of hard work, I reached a point where I found 75-80% improvement in sound quality. Remaining little bit problem is in the region of 80-100 hz freq. but it may be due to Front speakers as mentioned by You and Mini DSP is not controlling Fronts.
I have attached 2 images of REW curves, Before & After calibration, in a mail sent to You. It's not perfect, I know, but just to show You how far my system has improved watching your Videos.
Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge. Looking forward to many more VDOs in the future. 👍
Man I recently got my MiniDsp 2x4HD with Umik-1 and watched the Home Theater Guru video on using REW. I thought I did a pretty good job calibrating my 4 subs. When I saw your video I instantly knew I was only halfway through. Thanks for taking the time to do. A very detailed tutorial video series. I'll be working on finishing up really soon. Can't wait to implement your suggestions and improve my sound experience even further!
I have watched all of the videos on the miniDSP and followed your instructions. I have lifted the sound in my home theater to a whole new level. Thank you for your vids that are so easy to follow and give great results!
Excellent! So glad it helped
I am stunned at the quality and information of your videos! I am so glad I have found your channel today. VERY IMPRESSIVE!
Thank you so much for breaking this down in this series.
One thing I like to request is a quick, guide on all the steps. Some like a reference guide
I watched all four of the videos and they were are very helpful and concise. This one, however, was probably the most beneficial as aligning the subs with the mains is often neglected by others. Thank you for taking the time to provide a concise, quick tutorial of the minidsp and REW.
You learned from CO guy and Home Theater Gurus but your videos are so well explained and easy to understand. Thanks!
Thank you for taking the time. A very detailed tutorial video series. I will be working on it very soon.
Great video, Greetings from Austria (Europe)
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I appreciate it!
I wasn't totally happy with my Denon X4300H and decided to invest in the MiniDSP and UMIK-1 before spending a pile of money replacing it. These 4 videos have been extremely helpful in getting my two subs and resultant sound tuned to the point that I'm really happy with what my ears are now hearing and so is the wife.
My only two comments are that initially I had the same problem as others have had and was getting apparently no sound from the subs at the first stage of the process, but it was user error and I hadn't set the gain high enough and neither elected the right sample frequency. Also I'm running this on a MAC and can't get the ASIO drivers.
I have tried watching other tutorials on the same subject but I find this series to be the easiest for me to follow and is a very informative. Thanks!
Fallowed this whole guide. I have to say that my two Rythmik subs are waaaay more present in the room. It sounds so good! I still felt the need to add +3db on the sub trim in the my AVR to get a fatter bottom end in my room but still.. Sound amazing!
I used your Part-1-4 to align my Hsu VTF-3 Mk5, and an old BIC PL200. The results are phenomenal!! No more boomy bass, the bass is well balanced and I hear very clean and well balanced bass. There is so much more bass hear now, I have to start re-watching all my collections again!! Thank you!
Awesome to hear that. It’s definitely a game changer! I did the same thing when I got everything dialed in, rewatching all my movies.
Wow. Before this I was running all my speakers at 80hz like most people. Afterwards I'm now at mains at 110, center at 60, surrounds and atmos at 90. The sound is incredible and I've got an amazing curve on top of it thanks to you.
That is excellent to hear and glad I could help out! How many subs are you running? What’s your setup like?
@@HomeTheaterGamer 2 Hsu vtf3 mk5s (15inch drivers) 3 PSA MTM 210s in the front, Klipsch rs502 surrounds and some RS8 in ceiling I believe (5.2.2) I was shocked that the center was best at 60hz and mains at 110, even though they are all identical. I would guess because they are so close to the wall. But MAN. I thought people were exaggerating when they described bass as tight and punchy, but it is certainly punching me now. It's like watching everything like I've never seen it.
Your guide was EASILY the best and most concise here on youtube. Some others were unclear, others took a lot of extra steps to get to the same point as you. One short cut I did try out that I ultimately went with, was aiming for as flat a response in the DSP as possible; load that to output side, and then on the input side of PEQ add a low shelf curve. It worked wonders! Avoids having to do trial and error with multiple band EQs.
I laughed my butt off when you said: "a hundred" is a Florida thing. I also live in FL and say " a hundred" 🤣🤣🤣
On a another token: I'm following your tutorials to the letter. Thank you so much!
Friggen amazing effort.
Learnt more about rew , xovers and mini dsp watching these 4 vids than everything ive seen and read put together lol
Legend !
Another great video Brad! I have learnt a lot about REW and mini dsp from these videos! You are right I noticed absence of bass after PEQ , I thought I made my system worse, but after a few days I decided to increase the bass level in the avr , that made it better. Excellent series 👍🏽
Great work in this series, had these videos playing on the ipad while following along. Really noticeable changes in my room. Thank you for doing these!
Thank you for the tutorial, Brad. Super valuable! Save me hours!
Best video I watched on minidsp and REW. Well done! :)
Wow Brad great videos! Thanks for taking the time to make these on the mini DSP. I've watched 1 thru 4 and Unless I missed it, you don't speak about what the speaker distances should be set at on the receiver. On the mains, it doesn't really matter because you're adjusting the subs delay in the mini DSP, but you're not adjusting the center or rear delay in the mini DSP, those would need to be done in the reciever. Hope that makes sense.
Thanks for the comment! Yeah… this was a guide from a few years ago. I’ve learned many, many things over the past few years. I’m working on an updated calibration series that goes over setting distances (and pretty much everything else as well).
Can't wait
Thank you x 1,000,000.
Your four video series
Thanks for the tutorial, much appreciated. Question for you about the REW alignment tool info @10:30 mark where you chose Align Phase Slopes at cursor instead of the one below that is Align Phase at cursor. I'm wondering what the differences between the two is, and why you chose one over the other? In my case, the phase slope at cursor gives me a worse graph than just phase at cursor. Not sure why, so I figured I'd ask. I also want to point out that some AVRs such as my own Pioneer Elite SC-99, only allow for one global crossover point as opposed to allowing different crossovers for every speaker. Pioneer does give an explanation for why they do it that way, but not every manufacturer works the same way.
Loving your work. Keep it up. This has been really informative. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Outstanding work! I can't imagine what it would be like playing with a minidsp 10x10hd to do all the channels!
I can only imagine haha. I’d love to check that out, but unfortunately my current receiver doesn’t have pre-outs, so I’d have to jump through some hoops in order to do it.
Why would we need 10-10 when inputs we have say 2 or 4 channels
Don’t know what I am not getting
@@anandshah71 10x10 you can run eq on every channel. So you can set every speakers you have (left, right, center, rears etc) with REW Eq.
10 inputs 10 outputs. The 2x4 is for four subs.
the dip on the crossover point could be your subs is not in phase with your front. try reverse your subs polarity. By the way, did you time align your left and right speaker first before align it with the subs.
Stupid question. On Mac there is no ASIO. Can I just unplug all other speakers except the center (or whatever I am testing) and measure that way?
Great tutorials. I have a question about my marantz sr7010. It confuses me because you can't use the audyssey app with it. Can't I use a house curve or what do I have to different? Thanks in advance
Hey Brad,
What setting do you mean with ''overall output'' when you say that you can add more bass if you want to?! Are you talking about input 1, or are you talking about the output settings (I have 2 subs, so I need to boost them both then).
thnx
I have now watched these 4 videos a couple of times and fell somewhat confident in doing it my self. There are some level things that im in doubt of. 1. at what avr level do you run your sweeps? 2. After level matched the subs and basically done all from video 3, then I run audyssey. Audyssey will properly say volume is too high , I then turn down on minidsp. after audyssey do I then turn minisdsp up again and then follow your spl rew level match video and level match the subwoofer and mains with rew and avr levels?
Doesnt the alignment tool only works with timing reference engaged in the measure window?
Quick question regarding the MiniDSP, once your finished settings everything up with the MiniDSP on the computer can the settings then be sent to the MiniDSP device itself so you can disconnect the computer altogether? For example USB power to the device and only inline with the LFE input/s and output/s? And no computer/software required.
Thanks Mike
Did all your steps , i choose the best response in rew to my eyes after alignement but Could you tell me why using 120hz cross over in my room was giving me narrow bass realy feel like my sub where cheap , but when choosing 80hz it was day and night very good bass overall the room , thanks
I know that this is an old video, but how do I adjust the speakers crossover, if my amp only has 1 general cross over?
Hi Brad,I plan on getting someone to calibrate my system with the umik1 and the mini dsp 2x4hd.What cables do I need?Is it 2 usb cables, 1 for the umik1 and 1 for the mini dsp and 1 hdmi for the pc to go go the receiver?This is too complicated unfortunately for me.Thanks Chris
When you measure the left and right at around 20:12, what actually do you do when you do have a dip?! I have one on my left speaker and I would love to get rid of it.
Thanks!
I get an error when trying to Align Phase Slopes, it says the delay required is too large? All frequencies the same - any ideas?
This is an awesome series! Thank you!
This video is awesome and worked out great for me. @Home Theater Gamer My one question is when you aligned the sub to the mains you got only negative numbers what if they are positive numbers?
Hey ... what happens if the alignment tool delay is positive not negative?
Do you run Audyssey before running all this minidsp setting or after?
Before all the alignments using rew+mini dsp. What do we do with the distance of subs in the avr? Should it be set to zero or do manual distance and set the distance. Or first step is to use room correction and use the sub distance set as our starting point to proceed with the alignments using rew+mini dsp?
I have only watched your mini dsp series so far, but I plan to watch more now that I can see how detailed and thorough you are in your videos. Chalk up another subscriber! I have a few questions about the nulls? Are the nulls more related to the design/frequency response of the speakers themselves or the in room response? Would applying a boost in EQ within the receiver at those frequencies just undo everything you just did? I’m getting my mini dsp this week and am now confident with your tutorial and the insight from home theater gurus that I can make it work. Thanks again for this valuable resource and I hope your hard work pays off in subscriber count and future successes.
I did meassure the subs with the mains unhooked but each crossover has the exact same results. How can that be (LFE is set to 120)? And what would you do if the allignment tool shows positive delays for the front speakers? You can't add negative delays to the sub so how to proceed?
For non left and right speakers did you have to get new delay numbers? Or did you use the delay numbers from l+r and then run the sweeps and different xovers?
How does running Audyssey affect all these time delay adjustments? Won't audyssey detect the speaker distance, apply a delay, and blow up everything that was done in the MiniDSP?
We loved your content
Just trying your method today Brad, very interesting approach, but my problem is I'm using DDRC 24, the delay limits for each output channel are set to 30ms, so I can't use any number bigger than 30, any suggestion on that? Thanks a lot!
Hi friend. How can you adjust your surround crossover separately if you have just one crossover set on the receiver? I'm kinda loss here
@HomeTheaterGamer If my AVR has Dirac Live I don't need to follow this step right?
Hi. While using the “align phase slope at cursor” using the alignment tool, all was going well but at 100hz and 120hz (my avr does not have 110hz) cross over, i instead of getting a negative number got a positive number. How do i use this positive number for adding a delay to all subs in the minidsp hd. (I mean, we are to treat the negative number as a positive and add that to the subwoofer delays in the minidsp hd). Confused here, please help.
Great video( all 4 ) . What if you have a sub that is running inverted? Are you still just adding delay like the other subs?
Awesome information as per usual
Hey brad, love the channel!
Why don’t you use the process used for the Center and surrounds for the mains? , wouldn’t that save a whole bunch of time ?
You have 2 subs up front set up near the L and R mains. Wouldn't it be easier, any maybe better, to run the full range L signal through the L sub and speaker, and the full range R signal through the R sub and speaker. Patch in the LFE channel to both subs. Set a high pass filter around 120hz on the subs and then boom the front 2 subs are done. Would that not work?
I had another thought after buying a denon receiver that has top atmos speakers. ASIO4all may not support atmos, but if you unplug your surrounds and plug your atmos into those outputs, you can at least run a REW sweep to find a crossover. Just don't forget what you had your surrounds set at, because you will have to adjust them back in the receiver.
Could you please make a video how to calibrate home theatre with smaart, and how to upload that data to audessy.
Thanks for this series, I'm going to be using these videos to setup my own home system. Before I run the subs, would you suggest I run REW without the subs and see what EQ response I get from the main speakers and adjust their EQ on my receiver for a flat response, and then do the subs, and then figure out the best crossover, or is EQing the speakers just trying to do too much? I have a yamaha RX-V381 so it is a lower end AVR, but if I remember I have seen a setting to adjust the EQ if I don't want to use the YPAO.
Thanks for commenting! You can try, but the issue I’ve found on a lot of receivers is that they only allow you to apply manual EQ to speaker pairs, not individual speakers (the center channel being the outlier obviously). That can lead to some issues in response.
Another great tutorial. I feel I’m ready to give it a shot again, because I did it totally wrong the first time. Thanks 😊
No ASIO for Mac?
i have thoughts about the frequency response, your whole series was about the mic measurement, but if you sit in listening position and do a slow sweep from 15hz to 200hz and it dont sound like the graph looks like, then your ear says is not correct and you must do corrections. it should sound like even loudness across the board.
Any reply for me on this topic?
i just got a hold of minidsp SHD studio and no mic was in the box, at one point i want a mic and do measurement also.
Great info here, thanks Brad!
Question: Rather than inputting the delays separately into each of the 3 sub output channels independently, could you have input the delay once into input #1 and have affected all the subs equally the same? I am going to be setting up a stereo + 2 sub music system using a stereo preamp that has analog bass filters, but does not have any delay functionality.
Nice video, but there is one thing i dont understand and maybe it was in one of your previous videos. But where does the number 4,2 in your left sub come from is that the actual distance or is that the number you got after using audyccey or just a random number. This counts also for the other numbers in your other subs ofcourse.
Hey Home Theater Gamer. You just won over another subscriber. Your MiniDSP videos are the most detailed and understandable of ALL the videos I've watch so far, and I have watched a few. I recently purchase my DSP and Mic. I have not started yet. However, I do have a question. I am not getting how to get my FLR, C, Surrounds, & back speakers on the system to get the curves. How do I make the connection? I have Denon 8500h AVR, & 2 Monolith 7x200. My Subs are SVS - 2 PB 4000 & 1 Ultra PB 16.
Thanks,
Thank you so much, Charles! I really appreciate it! To get sound from each individual speaker, you'll need to make sure your Denon is hooked to your PC through HDMI and that you have installed and configured Room EQ Wizard and ASIO4ALL. I actually made a video that walked you through settings both of those things up. You can find it here👉th-cam.com/video/Rzl2jYeZtsw/w-d-xo.html.
@@HomeTheaterGamer Thanks for your prompt reply. I will watch the video today.
Thank you very much for your great sharing!!! If the delay time is a positive number instead of a negative number, what can do with the minidsp?
Hi Lam you manage to sort out the negative time delay in minidsp?
So do you do this step after running audyssey? Should I have dynamic eq off if doing this or using a house curve on my sub? I ran audyssey after spending a lot of time and my curve has been obliterated. Hoping this step, addresses it.
I faced the same issue, then worked at the curve (again), then followed the rest of the steps in this video. I hope I didn't do something really bad for my system.
@@abdullaalthahaba1693 so I wanted to utilize dynamic eq. I looked at what affect it had in my curve and it really bumped up the low frequency sounds.
So when I made a flat curve and used dyn eq, it in essence, looked like a house curve.
I used the output eq to get a flat response, ran audyssey which messed it up a bit, and then used the 10 input eq's to get a reasonable response
I'm pretty happy with the response and no longer have any crazy peaks or dips from 20-120hz. Plus I get to use dynamic eq which definitely makes my surrounds and Atmos speakers pop.
If you have the MultEQ-X app, after you run Audyssey, you bring the frequency range curtain down to the lowest it goes so the AVR doesn't touch your curve
Thanks, extremely helpful walk through. I enjoy the speed at which you run through.
Can you advise on what steps are necessary if you have a big null/dip early in the sub frequency, ie 50/60hz etc.
Maybe trying raising the cross over on the mains? Is everything time aligned? Do u have mini DSP? And ran REW. Is it a null with mains or without. If it’s without, likely a room issue or not aligned/we’d properly. Good luck 😎. I’ve spent countless days working on this main/sub
I followed this tutorial today and bumped into an issue. The delays suggested by REW came into the positives when I set the crossover to 100 Hz and up. I wasn't sure what to do with that since you can't have negative delays. So, I thought I would go into the AVR and increase the subwoofer distance, but that wasn't possible. The AVR (Denon X4500H) gave me an error message saying that the delays were set incorrect. Any ideas on how to deal with this?
I ended up setting the crossover at 90 Hz. That looked fine up until about 110 Hz, but then there was a nasty dip there, which isn't present in the sub response. I'm not sure why. Perhaps Audyssey messed up the respone of my mains (I told it to EQ 300 Hz and below on all speakers but the subs). I'll have to dig some more. Perhaps I'll have to invest in Audyssey's new PC software to edit the target response curve on the mains to get it perfect.
Great content. I’m a complete noob on room correction, time alignment etc but at first I thought the MiniDSP was used as a calibration tool but then I noticed the time delays where never transferred to the receiver, only the crossover values. Does this mean the MiniDSP will have to remain in place? I guess this makes sense because the receiver does not have a built-in DSP like a pre/pro such as the HTP-1?
Do i need the HD version over the non HD one? i heard it has more EQ resolution
You’re correct. I would recommend the HD version over the non-HD one.
Great video series Brad, I've learned a lot! One thing I'm not following. In Videos 2, 3, & 6 the REW testing output was just to the L speaker. I got my house curve hitting from 85-75db spot on for the sub, then ran Audyssey and used the app to remove the EQ tweaking. Tested again using L and kept my 85-75bdb drop. Starting with Video 4 you switch to L+R, and my subs response jumps up to 95+db measured in the room. I'm not following why we worked so hard to get the curve using just L then switching to L+R seems to ruin it? What did I do wrong?
I had the same thing. Ignored it and did the hz testing and I got no changes... Did you have any luck with the issue?
This is an awesome series. Would putting the atmos speakers in the front left and right speaker inputs, running the room correction software with the subs, then run crossover measurements be a good way of selecting the best crossover for the atmos speakers?
Hey buddy, great content!! I have been following this series and I have a quick question. I have already time aligned my subs, as well as created a house curve for them. Do I run Audyssey first, before doing the crossover points?
Hello, thank you for this amazing set of videos on a very detailed explanation on how to set up the mini DSP. I do have one question how would the settings change if I increased the volume on the subwoofers themselves? Well Irene need to re-run the whole calibration process over?
nope, you can turn the volume on the subs without worries
Very much enjoyed watching your 4 part series and very informative. I have followed all the steps but unfortunately my Marantz SR7010 is not listed for the multi editor app so all the hard work to try and time align my subs as been blown out the water after re running Audyssey xt32. So I’ve basically had to go in after Audyssey and manually set the crossovers and levels and leave it at that.
For a 3 way active with 2 subs we can use 2 nos
2x4hd master and slave ? Does it work flawlessly?
Hello Brad, I have been watching all of your videos while I learn this world of audio and REW. I have noticed that some of your videos cover similar things and I am going back and forth between them to set my system up. I have a newer Denon x3800h that has individual sub outs and I am running 2 SVS PB1000Pros that give me the ability to set 3 parametric EQ filters which you cover in another video. I’m basically using like 3-4 of your videos to do this all, so I combined them into a list below. If you have time, can you please look this over and tell me if there is something I’m missing or should change to optimize my setup? Also, I’m sure things have changed since your videos, seems ASIO4ALL isn’t necessary anymore since you have the option to run your UMIK in the EXCL input setting that gives you the ability to do multiple channels.
Step 1: Turn off Audyssey and set subs and speakers to OdB and also set all XOs to 250Hz, Also disable Parametric EQ.
Step 2: Level match the Front Left speaker to 75db(notate volume) using REW Generator and SPL meter. Select speaker cal in generator. Then set to sub cal in generator and level match each Sub to 78dB using gain on the subs.
Step 3: Take a Raw baseline measurement of each sub and both together. Frequency 10-200Hz
Step 4: Use Parametric EQ on each sub(turn the other off) to determine the best phase/polarity setting for each sub.
Step 5: Take a measurement of both subs to verify improvement over raw after PEQ adjustments.
Step 6: Run Audyssey. You'll have to lower the previously set gains, but notate what they were. -7 right/-14 Left.
Step 7: Set XOs to 80Hz. Turn off Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, but leave Audyssey on and set sub gains back to level matched gains and ensure Parametric EQ is on.
Step 8: Open generator and SPL, select Left speaker and select speaker cal. Run Pink Random and set receiver volume until you hit 75dB.
Step 9: Take a measurement of L+R 10-200Hz and notate sub distance and XO.
Step 10: Find the lowest null point and notate Frequency and dB level you need to achieve.
Step 11: Open Generator and SPL meter and set frequency to the notated null frequency. Play pink noise and adjust sub distance until the notated dB is achieved(should be the line of the surrounding peaks)
**Note: you can verify by playing the null frequency tone and seeing if the SPL is reading the null point frequency**
Step 11.2: if you can't get to the target db by adjusting sub distance, your XO is probably too low. Measure the closest you could get with this XO and sub distance adjustment for record by doing another L+R measurement.
Step 12: Set appropriate XO from 80-120Hz that allows you to adjust the sub distance to get to the target dB for that null. (100-110Hz in my case)
Step 13: Open Generator and SPL meter and set frequency to the notated null frequency on the optimal XO, Play pink noise and adjust sub distance until the notated dB is achieved.
Optional: Set sub back to original Audyssey distance and take measurement with the new optimal XO for reference to compare against the next step.
Step 15: Notate new lowest null point frequency on optimal XO and record frequency and target dB.
Step 16: Open Generator and SPL and set frequency to the notated one and play pink noise, adjusting sub distance until you hit the notated dB level which completes sub calibration.
Step 17: Take a L+R measurement of the new optimal XO and optimal sub distance and compare it to the original Audyssey set one at 80Hz & the best adjusted sub distance one at 80Hz and confirm your new XO and distance is the best.
Step 18: move on to speakers to verify nothing weird happened.
A further check you could do from here is confirming Level matched speakers by following this video and notate the follow up video,
th-cam.com/video/KzzZUejwiYE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Lv3PsNK0z-A/w-d-xo.html
Great videos thank you for posting these....my question is what if all your measurements come back as a positive in the delays. How do you perform a offset in Minidsp with that as you can't put in a negative number. Would I perform that offset in the receiver? Thanks
Hi you manage to sort out on delay? In negative?
Yeah, all mine are negative for the subs -- positive for L+R. Brad doesn't mention that possibility.
Still using the older ver 5.19 of REW. I don't see the same time alignment tool you see. Mine does not calculate a delay at all. Do I need a newer version to be able to use (see) this feature? Thanks
I’m not sure exactly which version added the alignment tool, but I believe it was added to the official release sometime early in 2020. It certainly wouldn’t hurt to upgrade to a newer version.
@@HomeTheaterGamer Thanks I'll give it a try. As I recall I stayed on the older version as I found the interface less cluttered. Keep up the good work.
Confirmed, the delay value is available in the newer version of REW.
Great series Brad! This was a very interesting method of selecting crossovers. Based on your results, did you see a pattern with the optimal crossovers in relation to the low cutoff of your speakers? Curious if the general rule of thumb of 10hz-20hz above the low cutoff held up or not.
In all honesty, not really. The front left and right speakers I own (Pioneer FS52 floor standers) are rated to 40Hz, but realistically aren’t very capable until around 50-60Hz. I think that speaker and sub placement as well as the room itself will dictate the optimal crossover point more so than the speakers themselves. I wish I knew a professional audio calibrator because I’d love to get their take and what their experiences have been.
@@HomeTheaterGamer Thanks, that makes sense. I always thought that rule was over simplified. Realistically there are many factors like delays and distance as well as SBIR which is related to placement of your main speakers and subs in the room as you said.
I wish I knew how to use all that stuff. I would love to use that in my room and add my other subs. Just flying blind now. You aren’t near Wisconsin are you?
Unfortunately I’m in Florida (both answering your question and how I feel about Florida in general haha). I have thought about doing a “calibration tour” of sorts before, where I go to a specific state and general area where I could schedule calibrations ahead of time.
I’m not opposed to that idea but it unfortunately wouldn’t be a free service unless I could get sponsored by a few brands.
My last 2 calibrations were by Jeff from accucal. He’s not around anymore. He used to set up tours of areas to calibrate. I think I paid him like $500 each time he came.
Can you use asio4all and use sub channel (#4) instead of turning off left and right channels when finding crossover etc?
I have tried this and got different results than if I left everything on JAVA. Since the method I used in the video requires playing both the left and right front speakers together, hence the L+R output setting in REW, I'd just leave it on JAVA for the time being.
Why would you adjust the delay to your subs after you've done a room curve? Wouldn't that just mess up the room curve you created for the subs? Why not just add delay to your speakers in the avr? i.e. go to speaker distance, switch it from ft to ms, and add the delay.
some avr cant change from ft to ms, but in fact 1ft= roughly 1ms
@@joeydelmarsjr.646 yep. 1.13 ft per ms
I'm currently using the 2X4 standard version which can store the config onto the on-board memory so I can disconnect the USB from the computer. Can I do the same with the 2x4HD which I just ordered?
Absolutely. It works the same as the non-HD version.
Can you do a Setup for a 2.0 or 2.1 System? Greetings from Germany.
I may have missed this, but where did you end up crossing your subs at? Was it the same frequency as your mains? Great video BTW!! Thank you!
Thanks for the comment! Just for clarification: I didn’t crossover my subwoofers at all within the MiniDSP or adjust settings there. Everything crossover related is controlled by the receiver, which I ended up crossing everything over at 110Hz for the smoothest response in my particular space.
Sorry if there was any confusion within the video.
Hello, can you help me please? I don't get any sound when I'm taking measurements. From my laptop to Marantz. I do not know what I'm doing wrong . On the Marantz I set -17.5db but when I go to measure I don't get any sound. Thank you, greetings from Austria.
Hope u have resolved the issue. Make sure you have the preference on rew set up accordingly to your input and output
You r almost making me buy it :-)
Looks like your sub low pass changes the x-over slope, not the x-over frequency.
Yeah I'm getting the positive number as well. Im not sure what you do with that.
Is there a different website to get ASIO for a Mac? This appears to just be Windows
you don't need asio for mac
Also you need to use the left main or right main as an acoustic timing reference for the alignment tool to be valid. This is an option when you make a measurement. It is just a little chirp that the speaker makes before every sweep. Doesn't add any time for measuring so might as well always do measurements with the timing reference on.
The only issue with using the acoustic timing reference with this method is that at one point, you need to disconnect the main speakers completely to isolate the subs from the mains. Obviously at that point, you won’t get any sound from the left or right main speakers, which means no acoustic timing reference will be played.
I’ve tried this without disconnecting the mains and just using a high 250Hz crossover while using the acoustic timing reference, but the results weren’t great and actually worse than the method used in this video.
@@HomeTheaterGamer so to get the sub with an acoustic reference using the left main as the acoustic reference, disconnect the right main, and run the output only through the right main. Works perfectly
Why can't the center speaker/channel be used for the timing reference? (If this is a dumb question then thanks for your patience :)
@@chandebrec5856 If you are using ASIO4ALL, yes you can use the center channel. If using Java you have to do the method I described above.
@@gregwilde6352 I'm using a Mac, and center channel works. But as long as you're here :) change of topic: all my subs delays are negative (L+R positive), which the video doesn't discuss.
❤ awesome
Brad disavowed -- "haven't had much success with" -- REW's Alignment tool in a later video.
Unfortunately when it comes too subwoofers
Low frequencies. Our ears can not detect alignment phase. You can not locate..look up Geddes using multiple sub woofers too correct room. He did his PHD in the 80s
Doing time alignment for subs you will not hear 👂
You
Except we can detect massive nulls in the subwoofer response with our ears due to phase cancellation and incorrect phase, which the whole point of aligning subwoofers with one another using measurement tools. The Geddes approach or method is just that, a method but not the end all be all solution for everyone. Most people can't place their subwoofers above the center line of their room anyway, so the Geddes approach simply won't work for multiple people. Even then, throwing 3-4 subs randomly in a room can still have a negative impact on frequency response, which can be negated by making sure they are properly time aligned together to create "one virtual subwoofer."
Yes, but if you have multiple subs And or speakers that are not in phase with each other they will cancel each other out
What on earth you have as your center channel?? It goes to 20hrz like 85dB..????😲😲😲😲😲😲
That’s with the crossover implemented, so the sub is taking care of everyone from around 100Hz and below (if it’s the part I’m thinking of in the video you’re referring to).
@@HomeTheaterGamer did you do the measurements (center and surrounds) with the subs or without..?
A big mistake
only the single crossover frequency is examined, not the range in which the loudspeakers overlap, there is still a lot of potential for improvement according to the method shown in this video.
Brad why you dont go to impulse for making alignment all speakers and also the sub exactly time alignment with speakers... And then just play with crossover... This is not good technic and also the speakers they dont have to be alignment exactly??? I dont think audyssey making good alignment right???
I prefer to hired someone professional
That is always an option, especially if you aren’t a DIY type of person. Personally, I find it fun and consider it a part of the home theater hobby I love so much. You don’t need to be a computer nerd or engineer to figure this stuff out, but you do need to be tech savvy and computer literate enough to know your way around some of the software and components.
that curve was horrible to be honest
Mind telling me what’s so horrible about it?
Fantastic series! Thanks for your hard work!