Agree. Maybe also write to prosecutor… Clarke I believe who reportedly believed Ruby was very remorseful and that should factor in her sentencing….he was snowed iMO.
@@nicoleheatherington4365Absolutely! We should tell him to read Ruby’s journal HIMSELF, from beginning to end. I suspect he was given excerpts and didn’t experience the full weight of her detachment and hatred, and plans. I also think he doesn’t have all the impressions of her nastiness on 8Passengers, and on her self-filmed ConneXtion videos.
I agree as in a lot of Colts high demand religious things that's the first thing that they teach you is that police officers are bad and knowing what Jesse went through they made the best decision
Seriously, they were so patient and amazing. Those kids were put through hell and it wasn’t because THEY were evil. Jodi and Ruby deserve small cells for 120 years.
@@cwb1400 Yes she was abusive before this. Im only just watching stuff now as I had never heard or seen of her you tube account or parenting podcasts with Jodi prior to the arrest. Its shocking and disgusting.
@@cwb1400 i like her former speech to her kids where she lays down the law about "my house, my space - you don't get privacy..." - these words are pure gold in relation to the privacy of her current space.
Psychologist here - I so appreciate that the police let her walk on her own. Being able to walk out on her own is helpful on the healing journey, rather than scooping her up and saving her.
Reply Crew here. I studied these social isolation experiments in various psychology classes. My heart broke for the monkeys. When I heard what Jody and Ruby had done to the children I recognized what they had done. Even worse, with Jody’s professional training, she knew exactly what she was doing and the only outcome is harm. I believe harm done deliberately. That is unconscionable.
Yes! Seems very easy to conclude that in the course of her studies she studied this exact article and it’s obscene that she would turn to it as a punishment.
I feel like it was so much more than just silence. She was so snobbish and defiant. She wouldn't even answer if it was her water or not. She comes off as contemptuous and rude.
From a recent experience, I know that victims can ask and receive from a judge an order for a defendant placed on probation to have no contact with family members. Happened in our extended family. So I hope this is true in Utah for victims of this type of violence.
I love it when one of the officers looked at her and said “ma’am, are you okay?” She had the weirdest look on her face and the blinking was weird too. I don’t blame that officer wondering if she was having some kind of mental health issue.
@@griffin2263 oh he knows Ruby is not a victim. They have already tried to interview her and she has a blank look on her face and just keeps blinking at him but won’t speak a word.
I thought she came across as extremely weird in that interview. I get that she wasn’t speaking until her lawyer got there which is perfectly her right, but the mad scary eyes were quite freaky.
Another thing I found interesting, is that Jodie and Ruby were so quick, and so willing to call the kids out publicly. “He’s dangerous. He shouldn’t be allowed around other children.” And “he’s been addicted to porn since he was 3.” Yet the children didn’t want to say a word about either one of them. (Jodie or Ruby.) RF asked the neighbor to take him to the police, and when the neighbor asks him what’s going on he says “just personal issues” and EF won’t talk to anyone for hours. This entire thing is so heartbreaking. Thanks for your insight so we can make sense of this awfulness. Please lock them up FOREVER! May ALL the victims get the help they need and go on to live beautifully. Edit: just wanted to clarify that I do not think the kids were addicted to porn. That sounds like a horrible lie to tell about your own children. And a despicable thing to say about any 3 year old. 😢
@@SweetUniverse They weren't watching porn since they were three! That is lies and shame on you even entertaining the idea and speculating and thus creating a false narrative.
We must also remember Russell and Eve hadn't seen each other in over a month and Eve had been hitting her head against the wall and screaming all night. I'd say after Shari left Ruby turned all her hatred onto Eve. You could see she went after the poor little girl on the 8 Passengers videos but Shari protected her. After her protector was gone she was fair game for abuse. After Chad was made to move out at 17 poor Russell started receiving all the abuse as the last boy left. Thankfully he had the power to escape one last time. Do you think he heard Ruby and Jodi discussing moving to Arizona and knew his life might be coming to an end or do you think he truly believed prison would be better than what he was enduring now. We ALL need to write to that parole board and make sure these two serve their FULL 30 years. Also does anyone know the judge in charge of Kevin's bid to regain custody of these children? The children's attorney needs to hear from us and so does that judge!
Those children were not going to survive another summer in the Utah heat in their debilitated condition. Without R being a hero, they probably had about 90 days to live. They should have been charged with attempted murder.
Great points about Chad and Shari as the abuse was there prior to Jodi. And then fast forward to the jail calls when she is crying to Kevin about hearing the women scream and she has “compassion “ and cries to Kevin for these strangers…. yet she is bothered that 9 yro. E is being “defiant”when she is screaming and beating her head in the closet. 💔 she didn’t care about those women… she is performing for all who are listening to her recorded calls. ….. THEN she says the “worst part is that SHE is being misunderstood “!!!!!! PLEASE! She is so delusional, She is so vile! Put her in solitary confinement!!!!
The case reminds me of a woman who did this sort of thing for over 15 years. She did things like shoving sticks down her kids throats, beating them, starving them, making them sleep outside because she thought they were evil. But she fell short of killing any of them. She took sand paper to her daughter's face and was caught. She only served 7 years. Many of the punishments were very similar to this. Plus some of her kids were not tortured.
Lauren and John, I know praise becomes boring but I hope it still means something coming from an old, retired cop. The knowledge, the attention to detail, the analytic acumen, the compassion that you bring to each case you cover is exceptional. You two are an asset to the true crime community. Also, it was so good to hear John sincerely thank Lauren at the opening of this video.
I have worked in intercountry adoption for 30 years. Orphanage isolation causes these horrific and heartbreaking emotional breakdowns in children too. When Hitler had children taken from their birthmothers put into the Lebensborn homes, physically heathy children died. Emotional neglect can certainly kill.
I have in my living memory images if children in Romania under Ceausescou - not that long ago. Starved of love, food, and attention, rocking themselves in their barred cribs. Even older children who needn't have been confined. It was horrific then. Horrific now.
I agree. And what I notice is that Jodi seems panicked and frightened, which I think belies her mental illness. She isn’t acting like one of God’s disciples, as she does with the people she indoctrinates. She seems, to some degree, to act a bit like a frightened child, a shadow of herself as a child. Ruby, the indoctrinated cult member seems defiant, robot-like, certain in her belief that she is right in what she does. Her body language, frozen in one position, in an odd position at that, seems kind of trance-like, certain in her beliefs that her children are demons and torturing them is absolutely right. I feel so angry at what these two women did to those children. Even with extensive therapy, these kids will be, to some extent, deeply affected for life. I hope that child welfare is at least getting them some therapy.
Yes, I think she thought she was ok because they wouldn't be allowed to go in the house but when she realises they can go in the house she gets afraid because she knows what they're going to find! In that way it shows she knows what she was doing to those kids was illegal and she would be in big trouble.
Me too it's upsetting to see how bad the monkeys are traumatized by the Dr in 1964. But the Franke kids being labeled evil and deprived of their human needs as punishment is unexcuseable. These women need to serve the maximum sentences allowed by law. Ruby does not deserve her children. And I'm not convinced that her husband does either.
I agree. She's like a deer in headlights when she gets caught. She's afraid, the freeze response is fear because she knows she's been caught. Ruby on the other hand really seems to think she's done nothing wrong.
I’ve seen the “ Jodi yank” at least 20 times by now and I never tire of it. She says, “ Woah, woah, woah, woah, whoa,…woah, woah, woah,!” as the police are pulling her out of her 5 million dollar house. Priceless!
So many things I find interesting. Jodie’s group was “connections” yet she was the one severing connections between people. Isolating people. 😢 ruining lives, and marriages.
Dr. John/Babe is doing it right there! I loved it, too! Thanks for the hard work from both of you! I hope this channel grows to where you can both quit your day jobs if you want!
My heart goes out to all of the Franke children as well as all of Jodi’s prior victims. May they heal and recover from all the damage that was inflicted on them physically, cognitively , and emotionally . I hope the Franke children are able to find a safe space to truly heal and deprogram from the crazy beliefs that were literally and figuratively beaten into them . I worry about the children being with Dad or any of Ruby’s family who may make them feel bad or wrong for “ causing “ this mess . Or even just reinforcing the warped religious take on children
Exactly. I feel like having them live with any family that is LDS or forces them to go to church can be extremely damaging and triggering at this point and maybe for the rest of their lives.
I would like to point out, the reason Jodi was on the phone with her lawyer is because she was out looking for R and came up on the police. She told them she was looking for a boy and they said they were too and it was the same boy and she said she'd meet them at her house and took off. She knew she was in trouble.
Yeah, I read that in the responding officer's write-up. It's terrifying how close Jodi was on his tail. That police car was the first to respond to the 911 call, if I'm following the docs right. So the good Samaritan neighbours and R were only seconds away from a direct confrontation with Jodi when the police drove up first and scared her off.
@@samporter2146I believe it was in the responding officer's(the first one to arrive) write up. But I don't remember for sure. It was in all these documents they just released I know that.
How horrible that the only exception to the isolation was your abusive mother who was torturing you… I personally believe the two would have deliberately “acted out” in order to keep from being being completely isolated, even if it meant more torture
Super POWERFUL EPISODE!!! Doc you did a fantastic job making a super important point and the Harlowe test as hard as it was to look at really shows the severe damage that was infected on these children the parole board needs to see this!!!! 👍
Ruby oozes contempt, arrogance, and entitlement. To Ruby, her children are her possessions, and as such, she can treat them any way she wants to. Her assertion that the children are evil gives Ruby the permission base to inflict the most depraved acts, justified in the cause of ‘saving’ them.
My mind goes to 12 and 9 year old children, still forming how the world works, knowing their mother is harming them and struggling to figure out WHY their Daddy didn't rush in and rescue them! How do they resolve that in their minds and hearts. Abandonment is all they likely can see.
I've noticed that men tend to really dislike Jodi and think she is more accountable, while women tend to really dislike Ruby and think she is more accountable.
In general, I think we all agree that they're both awful! I'm guessing women are more severe with Ruby because they were her children and the compassionate and caring among us can't fathom doing that to our kids.
I feel like the evidence shows that they are both equally accountable. Ruby was vlogging and posting her abuse before she even met Jodi. Jodi knew Ruby was already primed and ready to go if she were to be encouraged to be more abusive. I also think the LDS church should be held accountable- they are the ones who connected Jodi to her clients. And are the ones whose scriptures both Jodi and Ruby have quoted to justify their abuse. Ruby and Jodi both deserve far more than the minimum sentences. And the LDS church (especially those leaders who referred people to Jodi) needs investigating.
Because as a woman who is a mom you have a higher calling to protect your babies!! So to me Ruby was their mother the one who brought them into this world the one who should’ve had the natural instinct to protect instead she smarmy against and became the one who harmed! As a mom I will never excuse that so to me she’s is more accountable for her children!
As a man I see Jody as the more accountable party as the leader of the operation. Ruby is a terrible mother, but Jody was in charge and damn near killed those kids.
That’s an interesting observation. I have noticed that as well. On Mormon Stories it was pointed out that Jodi was basically booting out the husband and filling their place. Perhaps men are picking up on that husband / father role and looking at it from a personal perspective the way women are looking most critically at Ruby as a mother.
Thank you for not holding back tonight. I am a survivor of abuse and people do need to become more aware of the ramifications. I also thought you made an excellent point at the end about the Greek chorus and the inportance of the community as witnesses. Thank you.
Remember Dubai’s ruler Sheikh Maktoum’s daughter Princess Latifa trying to escape to the West but failed then was subject to months and years of isolation and medication? We all condemn this archaic religiosity and think this is “far away” from us, it is the Middle East and this is orthodox religiosity. No, this happened in US today, with a celebrity influencer-mom and a self-proclaimed therapist. If these two monsters walk free in 4 years that means there is no justice for the victims. Thank you Dr. John and Lauren. I will be tuning in for Chad Daybill’s trial. To me, these monsters are not about their religion, zippo. They only care about fame, vanity, grandiosity, me me me me me me me, god-complex with such audacity and blatant lies, disgusting.
Worried about her Airbnb guests being “scared to death,” but sure wasn’t worried about those poor kids being scared to death, with the torture and abuse being done to them. Wow.
Like she had any credibility to tell them “what’s in the house” let alone anything else Geesh. She is so beyond delusional. So AirBnb guests in one side and torture chamber for children in the other. Wow.
The true extent of the tragedy of this case really sunk in with the release of these videos. The thing I keep thinking is what on earth is going on in this particular part of the country? How embedded in the LDS culture is it that children are evil? I can't help think that the high importance placed on obedience in family structures has help this phenomenon become so twisted. It's incredibly frightening to think about how many households there might be that are breeding abused, scared children.
Children being seen as evil is very common in many high control religions and groups. It is hidden because part of the abuse is that children do not have a voice or access to the world at large.
Totally agree. I was so impressed by how seriously the police took the situation in the county where the older girls were found and where the younger ones were found. So much professionalism and care. The church needs to take a stronger stance with these culty types. They are all in good standing with the church while committing these abuses, and they didn’t keep their thinking secret.
The age of accountability doctrine suggests kids are entirely responsible for the good and evil they do at 8 years old and after. They are warned from infancy that everything they do matters for their eternal salvation. There is bedrock enough... Sadly...
@@erin6784 yes had a Pastor at Church say you can hit children until they are 10 years old. Also said never hit a child with your hand. He said the hand is to show love. Use an object to hit the child. Far out.
About Ruby not speaking to police: I saw that as similar to her extreme views on religion & on how she handles her kids. The lawyer tells her not to talk to police so she doesn't say a single word. She heard that kids should be allowed to experience the consequences of their behavior so she won't even take a lunch to school for a 6 year old. She is committed to her extremes! And that makes her a "good girl". She doesn't do naughty things.
I think Jessi and and any other victims of Jodi can have their say in victim impact statements, as well as the franke kids/on their behalf for Ruby and Jodi. So these parole meetings are in part for all their victims and justice!
I'd been reading and watching these documents for a week, and I'm still finding new information and interpretations that shock me. When I was listening to the 20/20 episode and my head whipped around to stare when R told the police that he and E hadn't seen each other in a month. I knew I shouldn't have been surprised, but it was just a whole new level of cruelty. This story was dark enough on the surface -- a child asking for a neighbor to call the police for help, and then you read Franke's and you realize this child was trying to turn himself in because he thought he was a criminal... It's like a Matryoshka Doll inside each sad story there is another.
Also, I have heard more than once that Jodi had gone out looking for R. And in a longer version of the 911 call and everything with the neighbors, I am pretty sure I recall the operator asking if anyone is out looking for the boy. The man has said they’re on the front porch, and as I remember it, the operator says or implies that it might be better if they waited in the house. I think the neighbor said something that made it clear to me that they wouldn’t hand over this boy to anyone, but “get the police here quick.” I can remember, back when this first happened, hearing some people be critical of the neighbor because they read his demeanor as flat, or not as upset as it should have been. I completely disagreed from the beginning, because I heard my husband in this man’s response-a really good man who is doing everything he can to keep it together so he can help this child. My husband can’t listen to or watch true crime, and I respect that, but he would absolutely not fail a child who knocked on our door asking for help. And he would not turn the child over to anyone but LE. And then to see the wife, so outraged and adding things for him to say on the 911 call… kneeling in front of R and saying “you’re such a good kid…” I felt like she was more than a match for Ruby and Jodi. I feel so glad R ended up there-such good people. And R, who is so poised, polite and articulate. I cry literally every time I hear the 911 call.
I read his demeanor as trying his hardest to remain calm so as not to further traumatize R. And his wife bending down to R and saying "You are such a good kid." ( and she had the presence of mind to ask him about food allergies!) R was so fortunate that to have found these two.
I agree. I weep for these children and all the children in the world who have gone through horrific trauma. I so hope all these kids recover over time and are able to choose the way they want to live their lives. I think all the children who suffer need long term support, privacy, true kindness from people and time to recover. I hope they realize they are brave survivors and not at fault for any of this!
There are a series of time stamped videos on Jessica Danielle's channel. She did a brilliant job editing them, so that the timeline of events is quite clear.
The little girl finally eating the food and being scared to leave the closet almost made me cry. Jody and Ruby should be severely punished for what they did to those children.
Right? The very idea that they don't have any awareness of how horrible their actions are seems laughable to me. Every action they took demonstrates to me that they were both perfectly aware that they were very, very much in the wrong.
I disagree with John about Ruby, I believe Jody was sick enough to believe her own b.s. I don’t think Ruby believed it, I think Ruby is a sadist who enjoyed inflicting maximum harm on her children. Jody was just the psycho that gave her permission to do it.
@@ladidaohoh3168 Well, no you don’t disagree… Maybe you don’t realise that Dr John is the one who said “Jodi gave Ruby the permission to do what she did”! 😉
@@soude85 He put Ruby in the same camp as Jody, saying she believes the religious aspect, and that Jody is a prophet ect…. But I don’t believe Ruby believed any of that, I think she was just looking for an excuse to abuse her children, I think Jody is mentally ill enough to actually believe she was helping the children release demons, I think Ruby had no such delusions, that’s the part I disagreed with. He compared Ruby to Lori Vallow, I think Lori actually believes, I don’t think Ruby does.
@@ladidaohoh3168I don’t either. Ruby was clearly a narcissistic, sadistic, control freak from her 8 Passengers videos. In a video with JH, Ruby said she loves principles more than she loves her children. Jodi cringed for a second when Ruby said that. Ruby did not.
Wonderful show. Thanks for showing the videos at (relative) length. That frightened little girl made me cry and it helped me not gloss over the enormity of this child abuse.
The house wasn't only "bland". It was pretty much empty. They already had almost everything they owned packed up and put into storage in preparation for their move. They were in a massive rush to get those kids somewhere more secluded so they could really start torturing them. The way Ruby wrote about it was so very chilling. She could hardly contain her excitement. She kept saying things like, "Those kids have no idea what they're in for."
There's much more to Ruby's silence. If you've seen the video of an earlier time where the police have pulled her over to give her a ticket and she take the identical stance. She only opens the window wide enough to pass out her license and registration. She just sits straight-faced, staring forward, no eye contact with the officer at all. Even the same defiant smugness is obvious in her demeanour. The only movement you see is when the officer asks questions, and she shakes her head, yes. This incident had nothing to do with child abuse. It was a traffic violation. Clearly Ruby has a far more deep seated disdain for the police.
It's an interesting behaviour, considering the LDS Article of Faith states "We believe in honouring, sustaining & obeying the law". Meaning civil law. Yet many LDS seem so wary of LE and are petrified of any perceived "government control". Something is rotten in Denmark!
❤ The way the two of you talk about each other, even through all the hard topics you cover for us, is truely beautiful. The love and respect you have for each other shines though. Thank you both so much.
A huge benefit for me, being part of your community, is also learning about the affects of my own abuse and now I have children, how it becomes generational trauma and how to avoid some of that. Every time I bare witness to these crimes, I also bare witness to my own mistakes and I learn and grow. For example, I was imprisoned at age 12, and in real solitary confinement for 4 weeks of that. Now I have intense agoraphobia, which I fight everyday. Listening to the harrowing yet brave story of R and E, and you both has lead me to learn about how my agoraphobia maybe hurting my children in more ways than I realise. So tomorrow I will fight this harder, try even harder, for them.
Dr. John, I loved your comparison of the HTC community to a Greek Chorus. When you said our collective purpose is to bear witness, that struck such a chord with me. There is an absolutely brilliant novel called “Life After Life” by Kate Atkinson. Much of it happens during WWII in England, and when the main character, Ursula, moves to London, she has a coworker who is an air raid warden. Ursula soon joins her in walking the London streets after the bombings, and as they see one horror after another, the coworker says, “We must bear witness.” I really can’t explain why this had such an impact on me, except that I recognized it as something true. Sometimes our purpose is to bear witness, and sometimes we need to become a Greek chorus and call it out publicly for what it is. Sometimes having just one person who speaks the truth can shake people out of accepting the narrative.
It just occurred to me Jodie left the 10 year old girl alone in the house while cops with guns stormed in. It didn’t occur to her to let them know for the child’s safely .
@@SD0224yeah her saying she could tell them what was in the house. How utterly laughable. I'm sure she'd have forgotten to tell about the handcuffs and ropes, and probably E.
Jodi still doesn’t think that she’s done anything wrong. She thinks she’s superior to everyone and that she’s justified for what she’s done to these children. Even from jail she still acts like she’s totally innocent and that she’s some sort of prophet battling the devil.
Yup , trauma can be neglect. Blanket training AND being put in a playpen for 12-14 hours a day. No touch, no connection, no bonding . Neglect is horrific. Healing comes with Connection and Love from humanity. Like this community if Gems , Lauren and Dr John. I have all those things now as I just hit 60 years old . I am so blessed to be loved by friends , cared for by an amazing therapist. Healing CAN happen slowly. Very slowly . Sending my heart to all the souls involved . Thank you to this channel for BEING THE LIGHT !!!!
As for Ruby’s silence in custody what bothers me is that this mother of 6 hasn’t asked about her children once! She can refuse to answer questions but still ask if where all her kids are? She knew Russel had run away. Didn’t care what happened to him? It’s shocking! Jodi never asks about the welfare of any of the children either even after police with guns entered her house.
The scariest part of this case to me is that this happened in an extremely upper class, extremely religious family where the Mom was a social media “figure”-Good Lord if this can happen I’d hate to see what we don’t know about this case 😭😭
Thanks to Dr. John for always bringing us the facts and taking us to school. When the documents first came out and I saw in ruby's journal that E refused to eat, I thought to myself "What kind of mental or physical condition did a child have to endure, for that starving child to refuse to eat?" I knew Dr John would not let us down in enlightening us. Fear, self clutching, refusing to eat... knowing that a "few" months of partial isolation has such huge impact on social behaviour, on mental health. To put it bluntly, we all knew it was bad. When the evidence came out, we realised it was worse without fully being able to put to words just how much worse. And now, with context, we understand just how horrible the ramifications are for these children long term. I hope the parole board gets an expert opinion on this when digestion this evidence, when deciding on a sentence.
In one of Jodie’s phone calls she said R did that to himself, he was trying to get out of the restraints, which caused the injuries. In what world would she think her and Ruby weren’t responsible. I hope the children can recover from all the abuse. They will never forget it and it will interfere with proper development and relationships. Another thing Jodie said was she was happy to go to prison, referring it to a mission of sorts. She had all her stuff in storage anyway and she was planning on moving to Buttf$ck Arizona but the Lord had different plans for her.
We can't bury our heads in the sand and if we have to educate ourselves, and hopefully the Board will give them what they deserve. But I am scared they won't, listen how the prosecuter thinks Jody is repentant and everything she said was about herself,nothing about her children.
Y’all are two BEAUTIFUL souls❣️ I see you and the sacrifice you make as a family. It says SO much about the quality of your character. You are so very loved!!! ♥️❤️♥️⚖️
Please never apologize. Thank you both for talking about this and reporting it. There must be thousands of children out there being treated this way. See something, say something. Though some of these kids are being home schooled and nobody knows.
When you discussed the behaviors of the monkeys it reminded me of some of the behaviors Ruby wrote about in her journal. She described E banging her head on the walls and screaming. She also complained both kids kept soiling themselves. Ruby thought this was all the demons trying to manipulate her. In reality it was the result of how she treated them
I think seeing the videos and pictures showed how bad it really is. When I first heard the concentration camp comparison, my first reaction was that it was probably a little much. Seeing how skinny E was sitting in the closet, got me to take the comparison more seriously. Seeing R’s injuries in pictures, also reframed the Jodi or Ruby’s confusion about why the kids were taken to the hospital. Didn’t one of them say the injuries weren’t that bad?
When Kevin told Ruby that the kids were going to be in the hospital 3 days , Ruby told him "That's weird. It's not that bad. They're trying to frame me "
Yes. The first video I saw after the info dump didn't blur the pictures. R's injuries should be seen; our minds try to cushion us from horror, but we shouldn't be able to soothe ourselves that it wasn't that bad. His ankle injuries went through meat, to bone.
Regarding Ruby's blank-expression silence. I have seen a couple of narcissists who had to be frequently confronted with their bad behaviors because of how they affected several people. Every time, they go into blank stare and silence. No verbal accountability.
Wow, John! I've made similar comments about the necessity of bearing witness to these tragedies! Some peopke cannot handle it and thats ok. But in order for these things to change and for justice to be served we must be aware and learn. How else does society advance?
She knows they will find E locked in a closet and Jodi says I can tell you what’s in the house. Jodi doesn’t seem worried that they will find someone else’s little girl , starved, emaciated and locked in a closet. She is arrogant and cruel beyond understanding!
I think she is worried and doesn’t want the police to see what condition the girl is in. Jodi would rather tell them. So she can put her spin on it. If she lets the police see and make their on decisions. She’s lost control.
I am so loving your coverage of this case. You’re respectful, reasoned, and informative, while still being compassionate to all. I love how you don’t stop and just extol hatred on the inflictors of this insidious treatment of children (while still advocating to take action for just sentences). You explore it. There’s never an excuse for this depth of depravity. The reason this story is so puzzling though, is how two women could possibly stomach hurting babies like this. That’s what we crave to have some idea of. I’ve seen so many who are essentially saying they knew exactly what they were doing. I think it’s much more nuanced and complicated than that. I think they were, ironically, so, so, so deluded and disassociated to what they were doing to these human being children. All they knew was to battle the enemy however they could and they truly believed their own innocent kids were the enemy. Where their awareness begins and ends, and ebbs and flows, is….something I think we’ll always struggle to see here. And the fact that you’re the first one to go into the lasting impact this trauma will have on these kids, how long the healing journey, how extensive and time-consuming it’s going to be, to suck away more of their childhoods….that perspective seems to be soo needed here. I’m so glad to hear this articulated. It’s so critical that both R & E (and the other 2, the middle children) get love and the best mental health treatment available to them after this. Thank you so much for your presence and thoughtful candor, the education you’re providing, that this case provokes the need of.
I dropped out of my college psychology class and switched my major to Poli Sci because of those experiments. All because I was so appalled and so heartsick over those experiments. Thank you for explaining to people the damage isolation can do psychologically.
Ruby's blatant sadism in her journals should instantly do away with her ever getting some kind of reduced sentence for brainwashing. Outside of the physical torture, she went out of her way to torment them psychologically. She had a picture of E as a happy girl, playing on a swing at her house. She showed it to E, reminded her of how happy she was in that photo, then told her that she was never going home. She is maybe worse than Lori. Lori got rid of the kids because they were an obstacle to her religious destiny, it was a means to an end. Ruby relished the chance to torture the children that she obviously hated. Getting to be the "prophet's" little pet and do God's work was a bonus. R's injuries meant he would have died soon, E's death probably would have followed after they moved to her and Jodi's dream lesbian ranch.
I can’t believe Chad’s trial is FINALLY coming up! Thank you for sacrificing the comfort of home and time with Dr. Babe and your little guy to keep us informed, Lauren! (The summary was outstanding!)
I’m sobbing here watching her reach and take the pizza 😢look at her emaciated arms😢I’m a 56 year old nurse and witnessed a lot of heartache with sad situations but this has got to be one of the worst moments ever 💔💔💔
Dissgree that Jodi didn't know what she was doing was problematic. Jodi was used to getting away with evil, vile behavior with IMPUNITY. Jodi had NEVER in her life been held accountable.
My take as well. I think she was trying to normalize it to the cops, not to herself. Like "I can't be a child abuser so therefore my actions aren't abuse so u have nothing on me." Kind of narcissistic and manipulative thought process. Eventually if she says it enough though I could see her starting to believe it when facing consequences for being a... ya know.... child abuser.
Thank John and Lauren. Your insight and ability to share it in such a compassionate way is truly resonates with me ,and I know it does with every one that has the heart to recognize the importance of "baring witness" to such atrocities that are these cases. I immensely trust and respect you both. Thank you for what you do.
After seeing all this new evidence that’s come out, I think Ruby is more terrifying than Jodi at this point. I do not think she was brainwashed by Jodi. They are two pea’s in a pod and equally destructive and scary. I really hope the parole board goes over all the evidence with a fine tooth comb and can see through her manipulative statement she gave to the court. They both deserve max sentences.
As difficult as this is to get through, it truly does speak to depravity and horrific treatment these children were exposed to for months! Please please please write to the parole board. Channel your disgust, shock, and horror into a letter and SEND IT! Both Ruby & Jodi deserve to never be in a position to do this again! If even ONE follower of Connexions can be educated and understand that these techniques are incredibly harmful, it is worth it. Thank you John & Lauren. I am very grateful for your dedication to justice for these children. God bless E & R, I hope they can find the very best help and resources needed to recover from all of this.
Thank you for doing this, I hope the DA, the parole board, etc., watches this and understands why Ruby and Jodi should both stay in prison for really long time.
I think we, as The Greek Chorus, need to DRAW the parole boards attention TO these videos, and TO our voices saying LWOP for both of these monsters!! We need to make it known where we stand on monsters who do such things to children. If we DON’T say anything, and the women are out in less than 5 years, that’s on us in large part.
Seeing Jodie get pulled out of her house never gets old!
Lmao!
Agree
WOAH WOAH WOAH
It was the best part of that video. I’ve watched it over and over!
It's gold
" I have my attorney on the phone" " That's great come out of the house" Best police line recently.
I loved that! 'That's great' lol! I could hear the eye roll in that cop's voice.
Hahaha 😂
So true.
I don’t care if you’ve got the Queen of blooming Sheba on the phone! Your busted!
It truly was superb! Lol
I think the public needs to stay active and really pressure the parole board to do the right thing.
I agree!
I worry that this case will be minimalized if we don't.
Agree. Maybe also write to prosecutor… Clarke I believe who reportedly believed Ruby was very remorseful and that should factor in her sentencing….he was snowed iMO.
Yes, I totally agree!!
Petition
@@nicoleheatherington4365Absolutely! We should tell him to read Ruby’s journal HIMSELF, from beginning to end. I suspect he was given excerpts and didn’t experience the full weight of her detachment and hatred, and plans. I also think he doesn’t have all the impressions of her nastiness on 8Passengers, and on her self-filmed ConneXtion videos.
I’m glad that the police allowed E to decide when to leave the closet.
Yes, I was really impressed with those men. They seemed very patient and kind.
I agree as in a lot of Colts high demand religious things that's the first thing that they teach you is that police officers are bad and knowing what Jesse went through they made the best decision
It was her first step to healing and autonomy.
Seriously, they were so patient and amazing. Those kids were put through hell and it wasn’t because THEY were evil. Jodi and Ruby deserve small cells for 120 years.
E was clearly terrified she would be in trouble with Jodi if she moved at all. These poor children... (and niece)
Rubys court room facade speech now makes me wanna puke after watching her behaviour and her diary 😡 I hope they never get out of prison
110%
Even before this, her speech made me sick. She was abuser long before this. Just watching some of her TH-cam made me sick to my stomach.
@@cwb1400 Yes she was abusive before this. Im only just watching stuff now as I had never heard or seen of her you tube account or parenting podcasts with Jodi prior to the arrest. Its shocking and disgusting.
Absolutely agree
@@cwb1400 i like her former speech to her kids where she lays down the law about "my house, my space - you don't get privacy..." - these words are pure gold in relation to the privacy of her current space.
Psychologist here - I so appreciate that the police let her walk on her own. Being able to walk out on her own is helpful on the healing journey, rather than scooping her up and saving her.
Yes. She was probably never given a choice before.
Imagine being aN ABNB guest and finding out there are currently children being starved, shackled and abused in the same place you are staying?
That she would have AirBnB when she is doing this to children?? Talking about compartmentalization.
I absolutely love how kind, patient and sensitive all of these first responders are to both children. They were keenly aware how traumatized they are.
I love how Lauren doesn’t do anything half ass. She gives 100%. Having a supportive husband is everything.
She seems more worried about her air BnB guests being scared to death than the little girl !
Probably was concerned she would get a bad review by her BnB customers.
Exactly!
She hates when someone leaves a bad review actually😂. There is video of her ranting about a bad review.
It's also a powerplay, finding something to accuse the police of.
Reply Crew here. I studied these social isolation experiments in various psychology classes. My heart broke for the monkeys. When I heard what Jody and Ruby had done to the children I recognized what they had done. Even worse, with Jody’s professional training, she knew exactly what she was doing and the only outcome is harm. I believe harm done deliberately. That is unconscionable.
Exactly where I am about in my mind when it comes to this case🙏
Yes! Seems very easy to conclude that in the course of her studies she studied this exact article and it’s obscene that she would turn to it as a punishment.
I feel like it was so much more than just silence. She was so snobbish and defiant. She wouldn't even answer if it was her water or not. She comes off as contemptuous and rude.
Ya the oddest combination of compliant and defiant. She followed directions but refused to verbally acknowledge direct questions.
Think of te little children needing love and words of encouragement and her refusing to even acknowledge them. Just looking at them with distain.
Or she just wasn't smart enough to know that wasn't what her lawyer meant by not talking.
That look was such a withering glare, like the cops were her kids and they were in BIG trouble
I heard one guy put it, "I was waiting for her to demand to see the manager."
I pray 🙏 to God that Ruby Franke never gets her kids back 🔙 EVER. Anyone who views their children as evil 😈 have no bussiness raising children 😢
From a recent experience, I know that victims can ask and receive from a judge an order for a defendant placed on probation to have no contact with family members. Happened in our extended family. So I hope this is true in Utah for victims of this type of violence.
I love it when one of the officers looked at her and said “ma’am, are you okay?” She had the weirdest look on her face and the blinking was weird too. I don’t blame that officer wondering if she was having some kind of mental health issue.
he doesn''t know she could be a victim as well at that point they dont know what is going on
@@griffin2263 oh he knows Ruby is not a victim. They have already tried to interview her and she has a blank look on her face and just keeps blinking at him but won’t speak a word.
The slow blink was Ruby’s effort to seem powerful and superior in that setting.
I thought she came across as extremely weird in that interview. I get that she wasn’t speaking until her lawyer got there which is perfectly her right, but the mad scary eyes were quite freaky.
@@smylsie yes! I agree. I think he truly thought, for a moment, that there was some kind of mental episode was happening.
Another thing I found interesting, is that Jodie and Ruby were so quick, and so willing to call the kids out publicly. “He’s dangerous. He shouldn’t be allowed around other children.” And “he’s been addicted to porn since he was 3.” Yet the children didn’t want to say a word about either one of them. (Jodie or Ruby.) RF asked the neighbor to take him to the police, and when the neighbor asks him what’s going on he says “just personal issues” and EF won’t talk to anyone for hours. This entire thing is so heartbreaking. Thanks for your insight so we can make sense of this awfulness. Please lock them up FOREVER! May ALL the victims get the help they need and go on to live beautifully.
Edit: just wanted to clarify that I do not think the kids were addicted to porn. That sounds like a horrible lie to tell about your own children. And a despicable thing to say about any 3 year old. 😢
Does anyone know how the children are doing now
As if any child could be addicted to porn from age 3. More to the point, how the heck were they viewing porn at that age?
@@smylsieI'm guessing his older brother, especially if they were sharing a bedroom
@@SweetUniverse They weren't watching porn since they were three! That is lies and shame on you even entertaining the idea and speculating and thus creating a false narrative.
If you've been a diligent parent wouldn't you have noticed your 3 yr old toddler checkin' out porn?
We must also remember Russell and Eve hadn't seen each other in over a month and Eve had been hitting her head against the wall and screaming all night. I'd say after Shari left Ruby turned all her hatred onto Eve. You could see she went after the poor little girl on the 8 Passengers videos but Shari protected her. After her protector was gone she was fair game for abuse.
After Chad was made to move out at 17 poor Russell started receiving all the abuse as the last boy left. Thankfully he had the power to escape one last time. Do you think he heard Ruby and Jodi discussing moving to Arizona and knew his life might be coming to an end or do you think he truly believed prison would be better than what he was enduring now.
We ALL need to write to that parole board and make sure these two serve their FULL 30 years. Also does anyone know the judge in charge of Kevin's bid to regain custody of these children? The children's attorney needs to hear from us and so does that judge!
Yes ! 100 percent agree . You laid out all important information. You should share this info in comments on other Franke case videos
Those children were not going to survive another summer in the Utah heat in their debilitated condition. Without R being a hero, they probably had about 90 days to live. They should have been charged with attempted murder.
Great points about Chad and Shari as the abuse was there prior to Jodi. And then fast forward to the jail calls when she is crying to Kevin about hearing the women scream and she has “compassion “ and cries to Kevin for these strangers…. yet she is bothered that 9 yro. E is being “defiant”when she is screaming and beating her head in the closet. 💔 she didn’t care about those women… she is performing for all who are listening to her recorded calls. ….. THEN she says the “worst part is that SHE is being misunderstood “!!!!!! PLEASE! She is so delusional, She is so vile! Put her in solitary confinement!!!!
The case reminds me of a woman who did this sort of thing for over 15 years. She did things like shoving sticks down her kids throats, beating them, starving them, making them sleep outside because she thought they were evil. But she fell short of killing any of them. She took sand paper to her daughter's face and was caught.
She only served 7 years.
Many of the punishments were very similar to this. Plus some of her kids were not tortured.
I thought I read Ruby didn’t want to have the last two children but Kevin did and that she always took out her anger on the youngest two little ones.
Lauren and John, I know praise becomes boring but I hope it still means something coming from an old, retired cop. The knowledge, the attention to detail, the analytic acumen, the compassion that you bring to each case you cover is exceptional. You two are an asset to the true crime community. Also, it was so good to hear John sincerely thank Lauren at the opening of this video.
Your kindness has aways meant a lot to us, and it does not go unnoticed. The internet can be cruel, so thank for your kind words
The policeman had great restraint, but you can hear how angry he is.
I have worked in intercountry adoption for 30 years. Orphanage isolation causes these horrific and heartbreaking emotional breakdowns in children too. When Hitler had children taken from their birthmothers put into the Lebensborn homes, physically heathy children died. Emotional neglect can certainly kill.
I have in my living memory images if children in Romania under Ceausescou - not that long ago. Starved of love, food, and attention, rocking themselves in their barred cribs. Even older children who needn't have been confined. It was horrific then. Horrific now.
@@Will0wFire reminds me of the surrogacy babies from Ukraine, abandoned there during pandemic
Jodie totally panicked when she saw the police enter her home. I think she knew very well she had done something wrong and that she was in trouble.
I agree. And what I notice is that Jodi seems panicked and frightened, which I think belies her mental illness. She isn’t acting like one of God’s disciples, as she does with the people she indoctrinates. She seems, to some degree, to act a bit like a frightened child, a shadow of herself as a child. Ruby, the indoctrinated cult member seems defiant, robot-like, certain in her belief that she is right in what she does. Her body language, frozen in one position, in an odd position at that, seems kind of trance-like, certain in her beliefs that her children are demons and torturing them is absolutely right. I feel so angry at what these two women did to those children. Even with extensive therapy, these kids will be, to some extent, deeply affected for life. I hope that child welfare is at least getting them some therapy.
@@jeanjacote5891and hopefully that therapist is nothing like Jodi Hildebrandt
Jodi already knew the little boy was gone. And he probably got help
Yes, I think she thought she was ok because they wouldn't be allowed to go in the house but when she realises they can go in the house she gets afraid because she knows what they're going to find! In that way it shows she knows what she was doing to those kids was illegal and she would be in big trouble.
Whereas Ruby acted disdainful and like she was superior to those officers.
Truly opened my eyes to the extent of the monstrosity of Ruby Franke and Jodi Hilderbrandt.
Me too it's upsetting to see how bad the monkeys are traumatized by the Dr in 1964. But the Franke kids being labeled evil and deprived of their human needs as punishment is unexcuseable. These women need to serve the maximum sentences allowed by law. Ruby does not deserve her children. And I'm not convinced that her husband does either.
Jodi knew what she was doing was wrong. All the effort to hide the children, etc.
Yeah I mean…everyone would know it’s Wrong…I don’t care what anyone says…if you see suffering…you know it’s wrong.
You find kindred spirits with Ruby and Jodi.
I agree. She's like a deer in headlights when she gets caught. She's afraid, the freeze response is fear because she knows she's been caught. Ruby on the other hand really seems to think she's done nothing wrong.
Wow, Dr. John, that was very sweet and respectful giving your wife such nice compliments.
I’ve seen the “ Jodi yank” at least 20 times by now and I never tire of it. She says, “ Woah, woah, woah, woah, whoa,…woah, woah, woah,!” as the police are pulling her out of her 5 million dollar house. Priceless!
"I'm not coming out." You sure are Toots!
She's a control freak, used to having total control. This time, she did not. It was very humorous.
The rising panic in her voice and on her face is fantastic!!
So many things I find interesting. Jodie’s group was “connections” yet she was the one severing connections between people. Isolating people. 😢 ruining lives, and marriages.
Great point!
👏🙏
The irony is unreal.
ConneXtions. 'X': Con-Next-Ions
Cuz "Imma Steal Ur Wife" LLC doesn't quite have the marketing appeal...
I LOVE the shout out from John to Lauren. ❤️
God bless them!!! 🙏😇✨
Beautiful couple. 😊
Dr. John/Babe is doing it right there! I loved it, too! Thanks for the hard work from both of you! I hope this channel grows to where you can both quit your day jobs if you want!
Yes, it was beautiful ❤
My heart goes out to all of the Franke children as well as all of Jodi’s prior victims. May they heal and recover from all the damage that was inflicted on them physically, cognitively , and emotionally .
I hope the Franke children are able to find a safe space to truly heal and deprogram from the crazy beliefs that were literally and figuratively beaten into them . I worry about the children being with Dad or any of Ruby’s family who may make them feel bad or wrong for “ causing “ this mess . Or even just reinforcing the warped religious take on children
Exactly. I feel like having them live with any family that is LDS or forces them to go to church can be extremely damaging and triggering at this point and maybe for the rest of their lives.
I would like to point out, the reason Jodi was on the phone with her lawyer is because she was out looking for R and came up on the police. She told them she was looking for a boy and they said they were too and it was the same boy and she said she'd meet them at her house and took off. She knew she was in trouble.
I had not read this , where did you see this?
Where did you get this information?
Yeah, I read that in the responding officer's write-up. It's terrifying how close Jodi was on his tail. That police car was the first to respond to the 911 call, if I'm following the docs right. So the good Samaritan neighbours and R were only seconds away from a direct confrontation with Jodi when the police drove up first and scared her off.
@@samporter2146I believe it was in the responding officer's(the first one to arrive) write up. But I don't remember for sure. It was in all these documents they just released I know that.
@@zoekellam4083It is very scary but I think that couple would've done everything they could to protect him.
Leaving these children in isolation is no different than "Blanket Training."
It breaks their spirit. So cruel.
How horrible that the only exception to the isolation was your abusive mother who was torturing you… I personally believe the two would have deliberately “acted out” in order to keep from being being completely isolated, even if it meant more torture
Super POWERFUL EPISODE!!! Doc you did a fantastic job making a super important point and the Harlowe test as hard as it was to look at really shows the severe damage that was infected on these children the parole board needs to see this!!!! 👍
Ruby oozes contempt, arrogance, and entitlement. To Ruby, her children are her possessions, and as such, she can treat them any way she wants to. Her assertion that the children are evil gives Ruby the permission base to inflict the most depraved acts, justified in the cause of ‘saving’ them.
My mind goes to 12 and 9 year old children, still forming how the world works, knowing their mother is harming them and struggling to figure out WHY their Daddy didn't rush in and rescue them! How do they resolve that in their minds and hearts. Abandonment is all they likely can see.
The police handled this very well. It must be extremely hard for them dealing with child abuse cases and seeing children in these horrific scenarios.
Sgt Tolbert and all First responders deserve special recognition… more than Ruby thanking them at sentencing
I've noticed that men tend to really dislike Jodi and think she is more accountable, while women tend to really dislike Ruby and think she is more accountable.
In general, I think we all agree that they're both awful! I'm guessing women are more severe with Ruby because they were her children and the compassionate and caring among us can't fathom doing that to our kids.
I feel like the evidence shows that they are both equally accountable.
Ruby was vlogging and posting her abuse before she even met Jodi. Jodi knew Ruby was already primed and ready to go if she were to be encouraged to be more abusive. I also think the LDS church should be held accountable- they are the ones who connected Jodi to her clients. And are the ones whose scriptures both Jodi and Ruby have quoted to justify their abuse.
Ruby and Jodi both deserve far more than the minimum sentences. And the LDS church (especially those leaders who referred people to Jodi) needs investigating.
Because as a woman who is a mom you have a higher calling to protect your babies!! So to me Ruby was their mother the one who brought them into this world the one who should’ve had the natural instinct to protect instead she smarmy against and became the one who harmed! As a mom I will never excuse that so to me she’s is more accountable for her children!
As a man I see Jody as the more accountable party as the leader of the operation. Ruby is a terrible mother, but Jody was in charge and damn near killed those kids.
That’s an interesting observation. I have noticed that as well. On Mormon Stories it was pointed out that Jodi was basically booting out the husband and filling their place. Perhaps men are picking up on that husband / father role and looking at it from a personal perspective the way women are looking most critically at Ruby as a mother.
Thank you for not holding back tonight. I am a survivor of abuse and people do need to become more aware of the ramifications. I also thought you made an excellent point at the end about the Greek chorus and the inportance of the community as witnesses. Thank you.
Remember Dubai’s ruler Sheikh Maktoum’s daughter Princess Latifa trying to escape to the West but failed then was subject to months and years of isolation and medication? We all condemn this archaic religiosity and think this is “far away” from us, it is the Middle East and this is orthodox religiosity. No, this happened in US today, with a celebrity influencer-mom and a self-proclaimed therapist. If these two monsters walk free in 4 years that means there is no justice for the victims. Thank you Dr. John and Lauren. I will be tuning in for Chad Daybill’s trial. To me, these monsters are not about their religion, zippo. They only care about fame, vanity, grandiosity, me me me me me me me, god-complex with such audacity and blatant lies, disgusting.
Worried about her Airbnb guests being “scared to death,” but sure wasn’t worried about those poor kids being scared to death, with the torture and abuse being done to them. Wow.
Like she had any credibility to tell them “what’s in the house” let alone anything else Geesh. She is so beyond delusional.
So AirBnb guests in one side and torture chamber for children in the other. Wow.
The true extent of the tragedy of this case really sunk in with the release of these videos. The thing I keep thinking is what on earth is going on in this particular part of the country? How embedded in the LDS culture is it that children are evil? I can't help think that the high importance placed on obedience in family structures has help this phenomenon become so twisted. It's incredibly frightening to think about how many households there might be that are breeding abused, scared children.
Children being seen as evil is very common in many high control religions and groups. It is hidden because part of the abuse is that children do not have a voice or access to the world at large.
Totally agree. I was so impressed by how seriously the police took the situation in the county where the older girls were found and where the younger ones were found. So much professionalism and care.
The church needs to take a stronger stance with these culty types. They are all in good standing with the church while committing these abuses, and they didn’t keep their thinking secret.
The age of accountability doctrine suggests kids are entirely responsible for the good and evil they do at 8 years old and after. They are warned from infancy that everything they do matters for their eternal salvation.
There is bedrock enough... Sadly...
@@erin6784 yes had a Pastor at Church say you can hit children until they are 10 years old. Also said never hit a child with your hand. He said the hand is to show love. Use an object to hit the child. Far out.
WOW ! Your Hubby Dr. John made me feel all warm inside when he praised you and all your work at the start of this stream!!
About Ruby not speaking to police: I saw that as similar to her extreme views on religion & on how she handles her kids. The lawyer tells her not to talk to police so she doesn't say a single word. She heard that kids should be allowed to experience the consequences of their behavior so she won't even take a lunch to school for a 6 year old. She is committed to her extremes! And that makes her a "good girl". She doesn't do naughty things.
But she is going to have to accept the consequences for her own behavior; sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander, Ruby!
Jessie said she would be at every parole board hearing to make sure those kids would be safe by making sure Jodi and Ruby would stay in prison.
I think Jessi and and any other victims of Jodi can have their say in victim impact statements, as well as the franke kids/on their behalf for Ruby and Jodi. So these parole meetings are in part for all their victims and justice!
I'd been reading and watching these documents for a week, and I'm still finding new information and interpretations that shock me. When I was listening to the 20/20 episode and my head whipped around to stare when R told the police that he and E hadn't seen each other in a month. I knew I shouldn't have been surprised, but it was just a whole new level of cruelty.
This story was dark enough on the surface -- a child asking for a neighbor to call the police for help, and then you read Franke's and you realize this child was trying to turn himself in because he thought he was a criminal... It's like a Matryoshka Doll inside each sad story there is another.
Broke my heart when he said he wanted to go to jail😓
@@cathystrydom8731 that poor little boy. Horrid what those children went through. Jodi and Ruby are both evil to the core
He thought he would be better off in jail than with his mother and Jodi. The women were the evil in their house.
Also, I have heard more than once that Jodi had gone out looking for R. And in a longer version of the 911 call and everything with the neighbors, I am pretty sure I recall the operator asking if anyone is out looking for the boy. The man has said they’re on the front porch, and as I remember it, the operator says or implies that it might be better if they waited in the house. I think the neighbor said something that made it clear to me that they wouldn’t hand over this boy to anyone, but “get the police here quick.” I can remember, back when this first happened, hearing some people be critical of the neighbor because they read his demeanor as flat, or not as upset as it should have been. I completely disagreed from the beginning, because I heard my husband in this man’s response-a really good man who is doing everything he can to keep it together so he can help this child. My husband can’t listen to or watch true crime, and I respect that, but he would absolutely not fail a child who knocked on our door asking for help. And he would not turn the child over to anyone but LE. And then to see the wife, so outraged and adding things for him to say on the 911 call… kneeling in front of R and saying “you’re such a good kid…” I felt like she was more than a match for Ruby and Jodi. I feel so glad R ended up there-such good people. And R, who is so poised, polite and articulate. I cry literally every time I hear the 911 call.
I read his demeanor as trying his hardest to remain calm so as not to further traumatize R. And his wife bending down to R and saying "You are such a good kid." ( and she had the presence of mind to ask him about food allergies!)
R was so fortunate that to have found these two.
I agree. I weep for these children and all the children in the world who have gone through horrific trauma. I so hope all these kids recover over time and are able to choose the way they want to live their lives. I think all the children who suffer need long term support, privacy, true kindness from people and time to recover. I hope they realize they are brave survivors and not at fault for any of this!
There are a series of time stamped videos on Jessica Danielle's channel. She did a brilliant job editing them, so that the timeline of events is quite clear.
The little girl finally eating the food and being scared to leave the closet almost made me cry.
Jody and Ruby should be severely punished for what they did to those children.
Of course she knows. She’d already called Ruby and Ruby had already called Kevin
Exactly ! She also called Pam to squirrel away her 2 other daughters.
Right? The very idea that they don't have any awareness of how horrible their actions are seems laughable to me. Every action they took demonstrates to me that they were both perfectly aware that they were very, very much in the wrong.
The audacity of this woman! She’s worried about a search warrant while two children are being tortured by this psychopathic bully and their mother.
She told Kevin to go puck up the kids like they wouldn't be immediately taken to the hospital. Like he would be able to take them home.
I hope Ruby does not get out of jail anytime soon.
I disagree with John about Ruby, I believe Jody was sick enough to believe her own b.s. I don’t think Ruby believed it, I think Ruby is a sadist who enjoyed inflicting maximum harm on her children. Jody was just the psycho that gave her permission to do it.
@@ladidaohoh3168 Well, no you don’t disagree… Maybe you don’t realise that Dr John is the one who said “Jodi gave Ruby the permission to do what she did”! 😉
@@soude85 He put Ruby in the same camp as Jody, saying she believes the religious aspect, and that Jody is a prophet ect…. But I don’t believe Ruby believed any of that, I think she was just looking for an excuse to abuse her children, I think Jody is mentally ill enough to actually believe she was helping the children release demons, I think Ruby had no such delusions, that’s the part I disagreed with. He compared Ruby to Lori Vallow, I think Lori actually believes, I don’t think Ruby does.
@@ladidaohoh3168I don’t either. Ruby was clearly a narcissistic, sadistic, control freak from her 8 Passengers videos. In a video with JH, Ruby said she loves principles more than she loves her children. Jodi cringed for a second when Ruby said that. Ruby did not.
Wonderful show. Thanks for showing the videos at (relative) length. That frightened little girl made me cry and it helped me not gloss over the enormity of this child abuse.
The house wasn't only "bland". It was pretty much empty. They already had almost everything they owned packed up and put into storage in preparation for their move. They were in a massive rush to get those kids somewhere more secluded so they could really start torturing them. The way Ruby wrote about it was so very chilling. She could hardly contain her excitement. She kept saying things like, "Those kids have no idea what they're in for."
There's much more to Ruby's silence. If you've seen the video of an earlier time where the police have pulled her over to give her a ticket and she take the identical stance. She only opens the window wide enough to pass out her license and registration. She just sits straight-faced, staring forward, no eye contact with the officer at all. Even the same defiant smugness is obvious in her demeanour. The only movement you see is when the officer asks questions, and she shakes her head, yes. This incident had nothing to do with child abuse. It was a traffic violation. Clearly Ruby has a far more deep seated disdain for the police.
Major superiority complex.
@@y2ksurvivor Amen!
It's an interesting behaviour, considering the LDS Article of Faith states "We believe in honouring, sustaining & obeying the law". Meaning civil law. Yet many LDS seem so wary of LE and are petrified of any perceived "government control". Something is rotten in Denmark!
Oh!! Didn't know you two were married! Makes your channel that much more awesome!
surprise!
lol. Dr babe is his professional title. 😉
❤ The way the two of you talk about each other, even through all the hard topics you cover for us, is truely beautiful.
The love and respect you have for each other shines though.
Thank you both so much.
A huge benefit for me, being part of your community, is also learning about the affects of my own abuse and now I have children, how it becomes generational trauma and how to avoid some of that. Every time I bare witness to these crimes, I also bare witness to my own mistakes and I learn and grow. For example, I was imprisoned at age 12, and in real solitary confinement for 4 weeks of that. Now I have intense agoraphobia, which I fight everyday. Listening to the harrowing yet brave story of R and E, and you both has lead me to learn about how my agoraphobia maybe hurting my children in more ways than I realise. So tomorrow I will fight this harder, try even harder, for them.
Dr. John, I loved your comparison of the HTC community to a Greek Chorus. When you said our collective purpose is to bear witness, that struck such a chord with me. There is an absolutely brilliant novel called “Life After Life” by Kate Atkinson. Much of it happens during WWII in England, and when the main character, Ursula, moves to London, she has a coworker who is an air raid warden. Ursula soon joins her in walking the London streets after the bombings, and as they see one horror after another, the coworker says, “We must bear witness.” I really can’t explain why this had such an impact on me, except that I recognized it as something true. Sometimes our purpose is to bear witness, and sometimes we need to become a Greek chorus and call it out publicly for what it is. Sometimes having just one person who speaks the truth can shake people out of accepting the narrative.
If you see something, say something!
Beautiful comment! I agree about The Chorus analogy!! Gave me chills and so spot on. 🙏🏼
Do not look away. This is our world. We need to protect the vulnerable and that includes children.
It just occurred to me Jodie left the 10 year old girl alone in the house while cops with guns stormed in. It didn’t occur to her to let them know for the child’s safely .
She actually was terrified that the cops would find her . That’s why she was refusing to let them enter without a warrant .
@@SD0224yeah her saying she could tell them what was in the house. How utterly laughable. I'm sure she'd have forgotten to tell about the handcuffs and ropes, and probably E.
These children’s safety is nowhere on her radar!
I am sickened by what they did to these children. They should never get out of jail.
Jodi still doesn’t think that she’s done anything wrong. She thinks she’s superior to everyone and that she’s justified for what she’s done to these children. Even from jail she still acts like she’s totally innocent and that she’s some sort of prophet battling the devil.
Yes....
Chad a lori wow
yes, evident from her "woah woah woah" as she's pulled out the door.
Psychotic delusions of grandeur
The police officer was the first kindness E had felt in months! 😢
Yup , trauma can be neglect. Blanket training AND being put in a playpen for 12-14 hours a day. No touch, no connection, no bonding . Neglect is horrific.
Healing comes with Connection and Love from humanity.
Like this community if Gems , Lauren and Dr John.
I have all those things now as I just hit 60 years old .
I am so blessed to be loved by friends , cared for by an amazing therapist.
Healing CAN happen slowly. Very slowly .
Sending my heart to all the souls involved .
Thank you to this channel for BEING THE LIGHT !!!!
Yes, neglect IS trauma. Glad you are thriving.
That’s why they use isolation as penalty in prison when you are not in the right manner to be
As for Ruby’s silence in custody what bothers me is that this mother of 6 hasn’t asked about her children once! She can refuse to answer questions but still ask if where all her kids are? She knew Russel had run away. Didn’t care what happened to him? It’s shocking! Jodi never asks about the welfare of any of the children either even after police with guns entered her house.
Safe travels you are precious, both individually and together, the world needs you
The scariest part of this case to me is that this happened in an extremely upper class, extremely religious family where the Mom was a social media “figure”-Good Lord if this can happen I’d hate to see what we don’t know about this case 😭😭
Thanks to Dr. John for always bringing us the facts and taking us to school. When the documents first came out and I saw in ruby's journal that E refused to eat, I thought to myself "What kind of mental or physical condition did a child have to endure, for that starving child to refuse to eat?" I knew Dr John would not let us down in enlightening us. Fear, self clutching, refusing to eat... knowing that a "few" months of partial isolation has such huge impact on social behaviour, on mental health.
To put it bluntly, we all knew it was bad. When the evidence came out, we realised it was worse without fully being able to put to words just how much worse. And now, with context, we understand just how horrible the ramifications are for these children long term. I hope the parole board gets an expert opinion on this when digestion this evidence, when deciding on a sentence.
In one of Jodie’s phone calls she said R did that to himself, he was trying to get out of the restraints, which caused the injuries. In what world would she think her and Ruby weren’t responsible. I hope the children can recover from all the abuse. They will never forget it and it will interfere with proper development and relationships. Another thing Jodie said was she was happy to go to prison, referring it to a mission of sorts. She had all her stuff in storage anyway and she was planning on moving to Buttf$ck Arizona but the Lord had different plans for her.
We can't bury our heads in the sand and if we have to educate ourselves, and hopefully the Board will give them what they deserve. But I am scared they won't, listen how the prosecuter thinks Jody is repentant and everything she said was about herself,nothing about her children.
Y’all are two BEAUTIFUL souls❣️ I see you and the sacrifice you make as a family. It says SO much about the quality of your character. You are so very loved!!! ♥️❤️♥️⚖️
Please never apologize. Thank you both for talking about this and reporting it. There must be thousands of children out there being treated this way. See something, say something. Though some of these kids are being home schooled and nobody knows.
Those beautiful kids will be scared for life..horrific
Her blindness of the severity of her actions cannot be overcome by the time she’s sentenced ( performance) she displays to the court ! Sickening
When you discussed the behaviors of the monkeys it reminded me of some of the behaviors Ruby wrote about in her journal. She described E banging her head on the walls and screaming. She also complained both kids kept soiling themselves. Ruby thought this was all the demons trying to manipulate her. In reality it was the result of how she treated them
You guys are terrific!
Will be watching Daybell trial tomorrow.
I am wondering about the physical abuse, malnutrional and depravation that will impact cognition long-term...and the malnutrition effects on psyche.
I think seeing the videos and pictures showed how bad it really is. When I first heard the concentration camp comparison, my first reaction was that it was probably a little much. Seeing how skinny E was sitting in the closet, got me to take the comparison more seriously. Seeing R’s injuries in pictures, also reframed the Jodi or Ruby’s confusion about why the kids were taken to the hospital. Didn’t one of them say the injuries weren’t that bad?
When Kevin told Ruby that the kids were going to be in the hospital 3 days , Ruby told him "That's weird. It's not that bad. They're trying to frame me "
Yes. The first video I saw after the info dump didn't blur the pictures. R's injuries should be seen; our minds try to cushion us from horror, but we shouldn't be able to soothe ourselves that it wasn't that bad. His ankle injuries went through meat, to bone.
Jodi trying to exert control right to the end.
I’m praying the parole board don’t get sucked in with these two monsters - especially Ruby she is so manipulative.
I hope they don't fall for her act. My fear is she'll be free before her children are adults and able to protect themselves.
This has been,by far, the most constructive coverage of any aspect of this case. You two have outdone yourselves again.
❤❤❤
Always! I learn so much
Regarding Ruby's blank-expression silence. I have seen a couple of narcissists who had to be frequently confronted with their bad behaviors because of how they affected several people. Every time, they go into blank stare and silence. No verbal accountability.
Wow, John! I've made similar comments about the necessity of bearing witness to these tragedies! Some peopke cannot handle it and thats ok. But in order for these things to change and for justice to be served we must be aware and learn. How else does society advance?
As a retired teacher..I urge society to rethink the home schooling epidemic 😅
Parallel this with what's coming out about the systemic abuse in scientology and sptv community!
Thank you for covering the Daybell trial in person, Lauren! We appreciate the sacrifices you and John make . ❤
She knows they will find E locked in a closet and Jodi says I can tell you what’s in the house. Jodi doesn’t seem worried that they will find someone else’s little girl , starved, emaciated and locked in a closet. She is arrogant and cruel beyond understanding!
I think she is worried and doesn’t want the police to see what condition the girl is in. Jodi would rather tell them. So she can put her spin on it. If she lets the police see and make their on decisions. She’s lost control.
I think whoever put a reverse locked panic room in her house should be charged as well.
I am so loving your coverage of this case. You’re respectful, reasoned, and informative, while still being compassionate to all.
I love how you don’t stop and just extol hatred on the inflictors of this insidious treatment of children (while still advocating to take action for just sentences). You explore it. There’s never an excuse for this depth of depravity. The reason this story is so puzzling though, is how two women could possibly stomach hurting babies like this. That’s what we crave to have some idea of. I’ve seen so many who are essentially saying they knew exactly what they were doing. I think it’s much more nuanced and complicated than that. I think they were, ironically, so, so, so deluded and disassociated to what they were doing to these human being children. All they knew was to battle the enemy however they could and they truly believed their own innocent kids were the enemy. Where their awareness begins and ends, and ebbs and flows, is….something I think we’ll always struggle to see here.
And the fact that you’re the first one to go into the lasting impact this trauma will have on these kids, how long the healing journey, how extensive and time-consuming it’s going to be, to suck away more of their childhoods….that perspective seems to be soo needed here. I’m so glad to hear this articulated. It’s so critical that both R & E (and the other 2, the middle children) get love and the best mental health treatment available to them after this.
Thank you so much for your presence and thoughtful candor, the education you’re providing, that this case provokes the need of.
I dropped out of my college psychology class and switched my major to Poli Sci because of those experiments. All because I was so appalled and so heartsick over those experiments.
Thank you for explaining to people the damage isolation can do psychologically.
She knew that what she was doing was wrong enough to know when R was gone she called a lawyer, not police to help find a missing child
This
Ruby's blatant sadism in her journals should instantly do away with her ever getting some kind of reduced sentence for brainwashing. Outside of the physical torture, she went out of her way to torment them psychologically. She had a picture of E as a happy girl, playing on a swing at her house. She showed it to E, reminded her of how happy she was in that photo, then told her that she was never going home. She is maybe worse than Lori. Lori got rid of the kids because they were an obstacle to her religious destiny, it was a means to an end. Ruby relished the chance to torture the children that she obviously hated. Getting to be the "prophet's" little pet and do God's work was a bonus. R's injuries meant he would have died soon, E's death probably would have followed after they moved to her and Jodi's dream lesbian ranch.
Spot on.
Ruby should never be allowed near this girl ,it’s heartbreaking
You two consistently shine more light in dark corners than anyone else!
These woman better get the max of 30 years. Anyone know how to write to the parole board? Can we get a petition going? I’d lead that if I knew how.
I’m trying to figure that out myself. I’m in the process of drafting a letter to the parole board.
I can’t believe Chad’s trial is FINALLY coming up! Thank you for sacrificing the comfort of home and time with Dr. Babe and your little guy to keep us informed, Lauren! (The summary was outstanding!)
I’m sobbing here watching her reach and take the pizza 😢look at her emaciated arms😢I’m a 56 year old nurse and witnessed a lot of heartache with sad situations but this has got to be one of the worst moments ever 💔💔💔
Dissgree that Jodi didn't know what she was doing was problematic. Jodi was used to getting away with evil, vile behavior with IMPUNITY. Jodi had NEVER in her life been held accountable.
My take as well. I think she was trying to normalize it to the cops, not to herself. Like "I can't be a child abuser so therefore my actions aren't abuse so u have nothing on me." Kind of narcissistic and manipulative thought process. Eventually if she says it enough though I could see her starting to believe it when facing consequences for being a... ya know.... child abuser.
Thank John and Lauren. Your insight and ability to share it in such a compassionate way is truly resonates with me ,and I know it does with every one that has the heart to recognize the importance of "baring witness" to such atrocities that are these cases. I immensely trust and respect you both. Thank you for what you do.
After seeing all this new evidence that’s come out, I think Ruby is more terrifying than Jodi at this point. I do not think she was brainwashed by Jodi. They are two pea’s in a pod and equally destructive and scary. I really hope the parole board goes over all the evidence with a fine tooth comb and can see through her manipulative statement she gave to the court. They both deserve max sentences.
As difficult as this is to get through, it truly does speak to depravity and horrific treatment these children were exposed to for months! Please please please write to the parole board. Channel your disgust, shock, and horror into a letter and SEND IT! Both Ruby & Jodi deserve to never be in a position to do this again! If even ONE follower of Connexions can be educated and understand that these techniques are incredibly harmful, it is worth it. Thank you John & Lauren. I am very grateful for your dedication to justice for these children. God bless E & R, I hope they can find the very best help and resources needed to recover from all of this.
Thank you for doing this, I hope the DA, the parole board, etc., watches this and understands why Ruby and Jodi should both stay in prison for really long time.
I think we, as The Greek Chorus, need to DRAW the parole boards attention TO these videos, and TO our voices saying LWOP for both of these monsters!! We need to make it known where we stand on monsters who do such things to children. If we DON’T say anything, and the women are out in less than 5 years, that’s on us in large part.
“Silence can be aggressive.” Quote from one of their videos on the couch.