Lori found out Alex told Melanie Gibb that JJ wouldn’t be found. That probably put them in fear of him being a liability . Do you know if Alex was cremated?
This is going to sound very cold, but I feel no compassion at all for Zulema. She is manipulative and knew exactly what was going on. I think she (Zulema) and Melanie Gibb should also be charged for complicity. They both knew what was going on - they knew the kids, Charles and Tammy were murdered. I do hope they are held accountable too.
Thembela you do NOT need to be ashamed whatsoever for your opinion or think that you are being cold, this is what it is, Zulema is just like chad and Lori!......the truth is most people see the truth here, NO doubt Zulema plays like she is some kind of victim when the reality is SHE IS A MONSTER! Like I have said in other comments, IF her childhood is as she is portraying, it has NOTHING to do with the disgusting things she has done...why LE is not putting this pos behind bars when they absolutely should just makes me sick!
I agree, Melanie and Zumela should have been charged with conspiracy. They might not have known where the bodies were, but they knew the children were dead.
She actively tried to help kill Charles (with her "powers") and was rooting for the death of JJ (as evidenced by her text messages). She's absolutely complicit.
I think Lori's mom and sister should be, as well. Her brother, Adam, tried to warn them and tried to help Charles. Lori's family ostracized him, labeled him a traitor, and basically disowned him. They knew Charles and the kids were in danger and enabled/covered up for Lori and Alex. The sister supposedly finally came around, but the entire family is an amoral, narcissistic, despicable mess, there is an outrageous body count that surrounds them--any reasonable human being would start to question why so many people in their orbit die under odd circumstances--and they should be held accountable, too.
I agree about Lori’s mom and sister. It seems these cult members are like children playing games for excitement. The ridiculous belief system of Mormon s conditions people for this mind set. Also living in small towns with little excitement, these groups become social clubs. As for not having a voice or being raised with praise isn’t unusual for anyone born prior to the 70’s. The need to feel you have super powers is usually left in childhood.
She admits she knew every time they labeled someone a zombie they ended up dead. But don’t warn anyone about Tylee or JJ being in danger? PLEASE. She totally knew they were going to be killed and certainly when they went missing she knew they were dead. But don’t call the authorities . Disgusting
Since she said she knew every time someone was labeled a zombie they ended up dead, that makes me wonder how many others ended up dead?!? (Other than the ones we know of) These cult members have some deep secrets!
@@maggielusk6833 Did you catch the Sharie Dowdle interview Lauren did? She just re-released it. I find of all the interviews done, that one give absolutely the most vivid context. It's the recorded call Sharie did of her conversation with MG. It's beyond disturbing how gossipy and callous MG was about the children she knew were dead from the get-go. All the while the people that loved those children frantically searched in vain. It is beyond upsetting to me that more in the cult weren't held accountable.
I suspect that the prosecutor gave some of these folks the choice of being tried as conspirators or testifying against the worst two. Unfortunately this is sometimes necessary to ensure the conviction of the actual, hands on murderers. We have to think-what if Lori were found innocent for the sake of them being charged with conspiracy. We are all looking at this from a different viewpoint of outrage for these innocent victims. One thing, none of these people will escape the court of public opinion, and you can bet everyone will keep an eye on them.
@@justkiddin84 I agree. And I also don't think that these cult members or others from that belief system have stopped being dangerous. Julie Rowe was Chad's best published author and in the summer of 2022, she gave a conference about Zombies. The AVOW crowd was basically super sized because of the teachings of Chad's although now they scrubbed him from their website. Minus the murder, those fringe believers are still out there in numbers too large for the mainstream LDS to squelch. This happened in the 1960s too with that LDS offshoot called The Church Of The First Born. Chad was trying to resurrect what the LDS finally squelched in the late 60s. Splinters remained. Look how rapidly AVOW and the PAP have grown? There is a market for these end times teachings and "other-ation" nation mentality.
Zulema being happy after the death of Tammy really made my blood boil. Her sucking up to Lori and Chad is revolting. I do think she’s nuts, but not insane. If these sickening people believe so much in religion, don’t they think Tammy getting busy in heaven, could be cooking up some karma for this sorry lot?
I know right? Being all happy and excited because this wife and mother is dead just so he and Lori can be free to wed. The things she said were disgusting to me.
IMO. Everybody drank the kool-aid in this cult, BUT Chad is the author, he created the entire story and then he became Lori's henchman in the murders in order to lead Chad's future world. Thank you so much for your spot-on analysis and hard work putting all those clips together
1000% she is a cold blooded murderer who makes excuses so she wont be arrested and spend her life in prison, her childhood has NOTHING to do with what she did to AC PERIOD
I don’t think that our hosts believe she is naive nor innocent. They aren’t saying that, they are talking about why she fell in with this black mass of evil. Dr John is having to be careful, also, to approach this from a position of compassion. ✌️
Interesting that Chad says Tammy was happy dead and doing her mission. He never says that about Alex, Tylee or JJ…..and Zulema never mentions Alex coming to her from the other side happy and doing his thing. What a bunch of con artists.
I read in the beginning Zulema was the one with some poison malachi stuff that poison stuff that couldn't be traced. And she was used for poisoning people Chad and Lorie needed to get rid of.
Zulema is crafty and I sense deception and the reason why she threw that little tidbit out at the end was to make herself one of the victims and not the perpetrator
@@katherineharvey3669 - Oh! The time she took Charles' truck, money & keys!!! Good point! Please notify the authorities in Arizona about this. This is crucial!!!!
Do LDS folks have a real estate and travel club?I've never heard of buying, renting, moving and taking trips all over the place while not seemingly being employed on a full time or even part-time basis? Is this a church write off? Massive credit card debt?They talk about buying houses like it's going to the grocery store..and the amount of marriages? Swap this one in, that one out.
Honestly I view Zulema every bit as culpable as Chad and Lori. She had inside information and did nothing. She married someone who was a known assailant. She is, in my opinion, guilty by association and has been REALLY lucky that there haven't been any charges on her, too. Melanie Gibb, too.
There are SEVERAL people who knew what was going on and could have prevented ALL of these deaths! Since they didn’t get charged, they should feel VERY VERY ashamed and guilty and REALLY need to do a LOT of work on themselves!!! Shame on them!!! Children literally got killed!!!
Trauma as our foundation makes life as a whole complicated - to put it lightly. I say that from experience. I appreciate how you try to lay that out, Dr. John. It personally reminds me of the “radical acceptance” skill in DBT, it’s NOT approval, rather is acknowledging reality for what it is. For those of us who have lived through childhood trauma - which seems to be much higher than what I’ve observed is formally recognized - as adults WE have to put in the hard work of reparenting our innerchild, doing trauma therapy, DBT, psychotherapy, trying any type of therapy to help ourselves effectively live in the present while we still struggle with the past. While what happened to ourselves as a child wasn’t our fault, it becomes our responsibility as adults to heal. Reflecting on my own journey of breaking out a abuse cycle - OTHER people helped me. I continuously fight for myself and I also recognize the importance of others in my life who were instrumental before I fully broke away from the own abuse I dealt with. I’m not giving an excuse to Zulema, from what I heard from Dr. John is instead of finding instrumental individuals to demonstrate healthy boundaries, love, etc. she found abusers who felt familiar to her, easily could have snared her with love-bombing / fantastical claims for the future to fill an empty sense of self. 🫂 For anyone who can relate to childhood abuse: When we don’t face the past - we repeat it. Growing up, when I would try to discuss something problematic my abuser did, they would dismiss it by saying - that’s in the past. Don’t let people do this to you, it’s invalidating and dismisses your lived experience. Yes, it happened in the past AND presently there is have a problem with how that behavior is affecting oneself. Be a broken record. Best case scenario the person in your life who pulled that line was busy and didn’t realize it hurt you - worst case this individual might start undermining you in different ways. Maintain the original request, be a broken record ♥️ this is an aspect of the “DEAR MAN” skill from interpersonal effectiveness skills in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). Sending love 🫂
Many people have been severely harmed by an abusive upbringing but the vast majority of them and mentally ill people do not commit crimes! Many people with mental health challenges are highly offended by the common association because they are law-abiding citizens who any times parent the opposite way of their own abusive parents.
You put child sexual abuse & a cult that says they like you & u r special to them & their religion is the only true way & this is the outcome. Hopefully awareness is out there now for these abused ones who will know not to join cults that kill children & spouses as Zulema did follow.
oh...I'm mistaking him for doctor "Babe"...must be his blue shirt color...lol. oh that Zuelema really is an enigma and I'm upset how she and the 2 Melanies have gotten away w their crimes...WHY ARE they still running free to do more crimes, collecting welfare, having babies and living large, getting married, then divorcing like David Warlock and M-Gibb who left their spouses and families behind wow what monsters are out there lurking and getting away scot-free I don't understand...btw, I understand that the warlocks marriage didn't last very long they should have tested the waters and did the nasties just for fun I guess Melanie G is on to relationship number five looks like she's following in her quote unquote mother Lori footsteps
I find it very intriguing that the cult pushed her into marrying Alex two weeks before he died. I do not believe for one second his death was anything but another murder-getting rid of the hitman who took out everyone else for the group/Chad & Lori; and that Zulema quite likely killed him for them.
Lori and Chad considered Zulema too flakey. She called and texted Lori and Chad an annoying amount of times, very clingy, needy, and too questioning when the children were missing.
Same!!! I know it was ruled natural but I don't buy it for a min. I also believe he knew it was going to happen and good Ole Al took one for the team. Anything for his monstrous sister/lover.
@@Globelle Agreed. Cousin Meagan interviewed today speculated that Lori and Chad wanted Alex to marry because unmarried his parents would get his body and request an autopsy. Married to his wife, Zulema the obedient, meant she had control and she cremated him. It's very difficult to find on toxicology sometimes the culprit because you have to order the test. If you don't know the compound to request, it won't be detected. Betting Alex suicided with the same compound they likely used on others to cause pulmonary embolisms. Unless Chad or Lori talks...or one of the Melanies or Zulema...we will never know.
Yes, her marriage with Alex was legal and instead of Zulema changing her last name to Cox, Alex was the one whom changed his last name. so he was Alex Pastena... I assume, to try to maintain a low profile. That isn't being talked about that much, but it's a fact.
@@mitsuomits9077 Would be interesting to know what happened to the other FIVE husbands! The police seemed to have decided early on to give zulema and the 2 Melanies a pass. I don’t think it would’ve taken much to get statements out of them and also made them pay for their parts in the murders in some way, maybe with reduced charges - but no charges at all is unfair. None of chads followers were too sharp (but still devious) but they all knew what was going on. In fact every single one of his followers have mental issues and are very obviously not living in reality. Lori and Chad were both manipulators of the feeble minded.
Relatively new subscriber here. A journalist and a psychologist covering true crime together? Yes, please! Thank you for sharing your insight into the characters in this quite complicated case!
Hidden True Crime yt channel and podcast have quickly risen to the top of my favorites list thru the Daybell trial. The interviews they’ve done, the overviews by Lauren, the analysis by Dr. John, and the respect and empathy they demonstrate for all the victims makes a very interesting, informative, and fascinating listen. To say they started their podcast “on a whim” is surprising and shows just how good they are at what they do. ☮️
Zulema’s child-like affect is probably a schtick that has worked all her life. She’s caught 6 husbands. Maybe she’s stuck in an infantile state but she’s so manipulative who would know. I heard Lori’s jail phone calls with Chad and after he flattered her she would sound girly and sometimes giggle.
It's the "relief society" voice. It's a learned behavior in the church. Listen to the lds general conference women speakers and you'll see what I'm talking about
Would like to see how the police interview would change if women or at least another woman was in the room. I have noticed when manipulative people behaviors change with the opposite sex.
As someone who has struggled all my life with depression and isolating and a lack of purpose, I still cannot comprehend someone believing all this insanity. Where is the common sense??
Agree 💯! That made me go hmmm! When I was 7, I had no idea about pregnancy and I am around Zulemma’s age. I know today kids get sex education in school at an early age so it might be different now. I know this was 5 months ago and I am just now watching this video so I apologize for the late comment.
You two are awesome together! 💛🧡❤ What you two have, is what Lori, Zulema, and both Melanie's, are desperately looking for, but not willing to do the work for to get it.
Honestly, I sometimes think that nice, middle class people who get into clinical psychology and psychiatry forget that these are not patients who have come forward for help. They are people in trouble with the law. With a patient, you have to have a working assumption that they are doing their best to tell the truth, because they want a better life. But these are people who casually accepted the literal monstering and dehumanisation of Charles and the children he was anxious ro protect. That they were demons, zombies, who deserved to be annihilated - by their own caregivers! And for no particular deed, just for being “dark”. And now they are finally talking, their purpose is to avoid prosecution. The “benefit of the doubt”, the presumption that they are trying to be honest as a patient - that presumption is uncalled-for. Not a moral bone in her body. One lady detective I have seen in a couple of interviews, she made a comment to a social worker: “Sociopaths, they always get you believing THEY’RE the victim.”
They were murdered for the money. Charles life insurance, Tylees inheritance and Sadly Jj’s disability checks. Lori had no money of her own and neither did Chad until Tammy died
@@pamelalange8569 Not to mention Tylee’s Social Security from Joe Ryan and JJ’s Social Security from Charles. Lori may have received Social Security benefits from Joe Ryan until she remarried yet again.
I had a.much worse childhood than zulema....but I made different choices that's enabled me to stay married to a very good man for 50 years...but my healthy suffers....perhaps bcuz I met married a wonderful man who helped keep me grounded.
@@ZeldaZelda-RichesToRags A lot of people have childhood trauma but so do most people who end up in front of the police or judge , using anything to get out of trouble…otherwise let’s free most of the prisoners in America ( they all play this card ) She conspired to the murder/ attempted murder of many people…Children were murdered for Gods sake . She can hide behind God as much as she like with her manipulative ways …..Evil
@@sherylbarry9143 my thoughts exactly and I wonder why is she allowed outside a cage oh and did she cause the tornado in Florida if so why who pissed her off?
And do you think it’s possible Zulema was encouraged to marry Alex so when he “died of natural causes” she was with him so she could be blamed? She would probably have been knocked off in time.
So true. Joe Ryan as well. I seriously think this started in Lori's family with something going on with Stacey's death for insurance money and Alex was the guy to notify the cousin his sister is dying. This is a generational curse in their family. It's okay to kill for monetary gain.
There is a great grandiose in what Z saying that she is so in-tuned with the source that she can be a medium to translate and heal people’s issues… when she has not dealt with her own issues?
The only way Lori can cling to any sense that she isn't evil is to remain a true believer. If she acknowledges that it was all a sham, she admits that she was a crazed psycho. She can't admit that to herself. Reality is too harsh.
I grew up in abusive households, though not as bad as Zulema's situation. For me, after I was old enough to leave home, I continued to choose relationships that were abusive. I didn't understand it until years later. I finally stopped the relationships and just worked on myself. Facing my own shadow (so to speak). Learning to love myself was/is tough, especially when the abuse taught me to hate myself. It is still a learning experience and I'm working on 'me' each day. Seems to me Zulema found some kind of peace/love in the situation with Chad and Lori. She wanted to fit in and they really continued to stroke her ego to make her feel special. Also, I can only imagine how scary it would be to see others being labeled as dark and then ending up dead. This is not a group of people you would want to disagree with, at least not openly. I'm not excusing her behavior, though, and the fact that she didn't go to the authorities is very sad. However, I DO understand some of the reasoning behind it. But I'm no psychological doctor, I can only derive my opinion from my experiences. Nothing excuses murder, along with other bad behaviors, but there are reasons. Thank you for the work you are doing. In the end, however, I DO think she knows a lot more than she says.
Thank you for this! It’s been read to Dr John as he is especially hard on himself and I think he does so well! We’ve been working to improve so thank you for noticing!
@@HiddenTrueCrime Then tell Dr. John I feel like I could take and really enjoy a semester long class on psychology from him. It'd be one of those classes I really loved back in college, the kind that really make you think. He brings so much of other expertise into his work, like his love of literature, and it makes it so compelling and interesting.
I'm late to your podcast. I started the other night but was interrupted. I'm just now coming back for replay. You 2 are great together. Good show. thank you.
She is just a whole lot... So many questions she has- "how could i be involved with people like this" She was deeply involved. I get the "mean girl" vibes in this group of women that were involved and lori was the main mean girl. I sense zulema and m.g. both felt very important in this group. They thought they're terribly blessed amongst these other women "beneath" them.
Because she did know the kids were labeled zombies, she knew they would be murdered. My question is: isn't that considered an accomplish to murder, even though she didn't actually do the killing? Who knows, maybe it was her concoction that killed people. I feel the cops screwed up big time by giving any of them immunity. Especially her and Melanie. The niece Melanie. Well probably the other one too. They all knew
Probably not an accomplice or conspirator if she only suspected there was a pattern. There may be a duty in some states to tell authorities but I only know of certain people with those legal duties like teachers, doctors and parents. Doing nothing is definitely morally depraved.
Big thanks to both of you- but especially Dr. John!!! Dr. John, you are the best! Thanks for taking the time to help us collectively wrap our heads around these atrocious acts... you are very helpful to so many of us! Thank you!!!
Maybe it helps to compare Zulema & the Melanies to James & Jennifer Crumbley. Arguably, these women were more on notice of people potentially dying in the wake of their religious activities & were in a position to stop it. I find Zulema to be extremely glib and callous & superficial behind her childlike naive pose, kind of reminiscent of Marilyn Monroe. I think she uses the veneer of infant-like bewilderment as a camouflage for her basic callousness. I wonder if she could be called a Histrionic sociopath? Whereas Lori is half crazy, I think Zulema & the Melanies are more straight-up clear-headed callous manipulators.
To me, Zulema is explained by her lack of Early Childhood Trauma recovery, without which, life remains as bewildering in adulthood as it was in the first years of life. They are called Adult Children and often speak in child-world voice. Great subject & show.
since last week I been catching up for memory on the case. This was a great podcast. I never seen Zulema's texts but hearing what you read makes me feel she knew everything. so strange. I can not wait for her testimony
This is very interesting listening to this in 2024 a year later after her testimony just last week in Chad’s trial. I didn’t know she was married 6 times.
Great video!❤ Did Alex have life insurance? I’m curious if Zulema cashed in. If yes, they all have the same plan. (Including Melaniece.)They all knew a lot more.💔
Brilliant analysis, Dr. John. Excellent juxtaposition of audial clips from Zulema before and after Vallow/Daybell and use of clips to empirically sketch and fill in Zulema’s likely psyche.
> I just found this channel and I'm loving it!! Ive already subscribed. This my 4th video and I'll be making my way through as many as I can today and in the future.
Both of you are so awesome!!! I enjoy your program so very much. I’m so happy folks like you are raising the next generation, and by the way , what you already know, your son is a cutie 😻 Thanks for all you do💕
Like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. It seems like she really wanted to belong and be loved regardless of the odd circumstances. I had an afterthought, lol I remembered back to how Zulema acted after Alex died and how she responded to the questioning and searches etc. She had to know something to have acted the way she did imo. I believe she did know what was going on and I do believe the "blessing" was more of a "you need to do this for us" talk.
@@gleefulme9617 I think so too but what I wonder is how much of what she was carrying on with did she think was actually real? Did she really believe all the earthquake, auto accident mumbo jumbo or did she just relish being "popular" for a moment and feeling Love loved loved byt LOLO
@@gleefulme9617 I left a lot of thought out there, but how much of all this did any of them besides Lori and Chad believe was reality? Maybe all of them I guess but it seems like after Alex "passed" it all of a sudden got Really real to Zulema...Or maybe she is just really good at the lil girl voice and pity me thing who knows. I doubt we will but would love to know exactly each part everyone of them played in the Horrors of LoLO and the Buttchinian
That's exactly what I was thinking too. She had to of know what was going on the whole time. I said it before too that I believe Eldon," Chad's neighbor " seen something , so I believe they killed him the same way they killed Tammy. I might of missed it, but did they find the red or pink foam coming out of Alex's mouth too when he died? It's just too much of a coincidence. I know I'm late on committing here, but it popped up here on TH-cam and I couldn't help but to leave a comment. I think there's more people than Chad, Lori, and Alex need to go to jail. I believe Larry even said it a week ago...these people were a clan. It just wasn't Chad, Lori, and Alex that were involved.
I find it hard to believe anything Zulema says, judging from the manipulation that has been attributed to her, so it seems thinking she was abused in childhood falls right into the beginning of her manipulating your sympathies. If you do indeed believe she was molested, I think you should also look at the alternate scenario of not believing she was molested. I think Zulema is a constant in the poisonings and has something to do with the fact no one has nailed down exactly what is causing these "lung" problems leading to death.
I have just recently found your videos and I can feel Dr. John's compassion and his want to help. I think you two are an amazing couple. Thank you for helping us understand crime from this position it is amazing. May God bless you two abundantly. ❤️🙏❤️
Just today I listened to Zulema's police interview in Rexburg. I was surprised that she also had trouble remembering things as did David Warwick when he stayed at Lori's house. The descriptions were so similar, and I keep going back to the same thing. Could they have been given that drug? I was chilled when Zulema talked about hearing Alex talking but not sure and though she was trying to wake up she couldn't. David Warwick described what he thought he heard and thought after it was a nightmare. Both had spouses selected to this group for higher powers. Were Zulema and David to be on the sacrifice list?
Everyone in this group is always talking about what a victim they are. They take no responsibility or accountability for anything. Nothing is ever their fault. All of these people are toxic.
Yes, I heard him say that in this program. “Bystander effect” The Lolita & Chubby Douchebull Sociopathic Slippery Slimy Social Security Stealing Secret Society is a mini version of Hitler’s Germany. Encourage and excuse atrocities toward the “dark zombies”/Jews. Millions of people fell for the Holocaust mindset. Still do. Evil is real. 👺🔥💀👹🩸☠️🔥💀👺
I know all the trauma zulema is saying but I spent years in therapy & giving my life to God, but I have great compassion for people & he would never be apart of evil, I was brainwashed I could go on but I won't thank you & John for all you do god bless you both in all you do I've been here for years since 2020
Really interesting insights and thanks for this. I'm guessing that Zulema will listen to this - I wonder how she's feeling now. Maybe duped, betrayed, gullible, guilty, and five other emotions all mixed together. Daybell/Vallow saw her weak points a mile away and exploited her, but at what point does a person have to take responsibility for turning a blind eye?
Hearing of Zulema's childhood abuse is saddening, and shocking but not surprising. it sounds as if it began when she was preverbal possibly too, which causes profound unknowable and probably irreversible damage (id like to hear more about that). Surely PD's are a possibility, NPD for example, would appear to tie in to the Not Knowing who she IS? And would certainly make Z very vulnerable to cult action upon her and also her attraction to having Power, Agency. But even so, as sympathetic as i can be to the horror she had to live, is it those childhood experiences that "allowed' zulrma to turn her back on Charles, (edit, and Tammy) and probably Tylee and jj, when she had guilty knowledge? I struggle with this, its so COLD. Maybe there is a derealisation effect at play? Zulema's mind as an Aquarium analogy takes on a sick and noir humour when you consider it is the aquatic life treatment "Malachite Green" (which is the toxic substance, not the stone, in my understanding). Melanie Gibb makes my skin crawl - what is HER excuse for putting herself over the very LIVES of others, tylee, jj, tammy..?!
Melanie Gibbs excuse....I can ASSURE you that she is possessed by legions of demons, just as her FORMER 2nd husband David Warlock, Chad, Lori, Alex, Ian & Mel Palowski, along w those supporting and embracing the demonic teaching of the fringe offshoots...if only people would simply stick to the teachings of the Bible especially the state of the Dead. If you go to Heaven the minute you die would mean that Satan did NOT LIE to Eve when he said "Surely you will NOT DIE...I know a lot of people like to quote out of context."Absent from the body present with the Lord"... but that doesn't mean all the other hundreds of verses in Scripture that tell us that when we die we are ASLEEP, our very thoughts perish, we know not anything. we don't praise Him, as we have NO THOUGHTS. The Story of Lazarus Jesus Friend who died several days and his friends warned him that his body stinks. But Jesus didn't call him down from Heaven when he called Lazarus to "come forth".....if people stuck with those Bible truths about the state of the Dead we wouldn't have all these crazy ideas. Would it be Heavenly or wonderful if we are in Heaven able to see what is taking place on planet Earth with our loved ones and watching our loved ones being tortured with grief and tragedy and their their missing us or seeing the world go to another War where Millions are killed and slaughtered an innocent children being sex trafficking... is that Heaven? I think not and it's why I will continue to Bible truth and believe what the Bible says..that we' are in the grave, asleep, waiting for that last trumpet to sound and the graves will open ... every eye shall see him and Jesus will be with a cloud of angels who will gather His own and our angels well Rapture us and cake those who are asleep in Him up into heaven to meet Jesus as He will not touch Earth until it is cleansed. If you want to know the Bible truth about the state of the Dead just go to "Amazing Facts.org" your eyes will be opened too biblical truth the Bible says let no man deceive you!
This woman is a manipulative liar who wants the police to pity her . A lot of us have terrible pasts , so I don’t fall for the “abused card” She was a conspirator to murder of Tylee, Charles, Tammy and Jj……let’s free everyone in prison because most of them play the same card to get out of the situation they caused . No pity for evil people who hides behind god
She knew something was supposed to happen to Charles. It doesn't happen for awhile. Then he was shot by Alex. The average person would go "wait what?". But Zulema, Melanie G and Melani P then saw Tammy die, JJ and Tylee disappear. Somewhere in their own minds they must have feared they might be next. Melanie G. really had no choice but to go to the police when she realized the children were probably dead.
I so much appreciate Dr. John's deep understanding of human nature and in Zulema's case, how people are drawn into and behave in cults. Seems to me, since the cult expected most of the human race would be soon wiped out, it's not surprising they tolerated a few people dying ahead of such mass destruction.
Is it possible Chad wanted Zulema and Alex to move to his (Chads) home in Rexberg so if the children were found Zulema and Alex would be help responsible? Lori and Chad could go off and work on their mission....
I got a reading from someone one time, a supposed psychic, and he or she said I was I pirate in a past life.😂 Omg. This is making me so glad I never got into all of that.
PATREON: www.patreon.com/posts/73610357?
Appreciate you guys. Tysm.❤
Why not cover the very interesting state of SC vs Michael Colluci
Why did Alex take zulema's last name when they got married
I wish I could join your patreon, I’d love to.
Tammy gets exhumed, Alex suddenly dies. If Zulema was innocent she would have been begging for police protection.
I believe Lori told her that Alex needed to die because she knew that he knew to much.
Acting to save herself from being charged as an accomplice. All of a sudden she sees the light?
Lori found out Alex told Melanie Gibb that JJ wouldn’t be found. That probably put them in fear of him being a liability . Do you know if Alex was cremated?
Once again the police botched this death to. He had pink foam coming out of his mouth just like Tammy. She poisoned him and Tammy
Every body that's a criminals claims sexual assult
This is going to sound very cold, but I feel no compassion at all for Zulema. She is manipulative and knew exactly what was going on. I think she (Zulema) and Melanie Gibb should also be charged for complicity. They both knew what was going on - they knew the kids, Charles and Tammy were murdered. I do hope they are held accountable too.
Thembela you do NOT need to be ashamed whatsoever for your opinion or think that you are being cold, this is what it is, Zulema is just like chad and Lori!......the truth is most people see the truth here, NO doubt Zulema plays like she is some kind of victim when the reality is SHE IS A MONSTER!
Like I have said in other comments, IF her childhood is as she is portraying, it has NOTHING to do with the disgusting things she has done...why LE is not putting this pos behind bars when they absolutely should just makes me sick!
I agree, Melanie and Zumela should have been charged with conspiracy. They might not have known where the bodies were, but they knew the children were dead.
She actively tried to help kill Charles (with her "powers") and was rooting for the death of JJ (as evidenced by her text messages). She's absolutely complicit.
I think Lori's mom and sister should be, as well. Her brother, Adam, tried to warn them and tried to help Charles. Lori's family ostracized him, labeled him a traitor, and basically disowned him. They knew Charles and the kids were in danger and enabled/covered up for Lori and Alex. The sister supposedly finally came around, but the entire family is an amoral, narcissistic, despicable mess, there is an outrageous body count that surrounds them--any reasonable human being would start to question why so many people in their orbit die under odd circumstances--and they should be held accountable, too.
I agree about Lori’s mom and sister. It seems these cult members are like children playing games for excitement. The ridiculous belief system of Mormon s conditions people for this mind set. Also living in small towns with little excitement, these groups become social clubs. As for not having a voice or being raised with praise isn’t unusual for anyone born prior to the 70’s. The need to feel you have super powers is usually left in childhood.
She admits she knew every time they labeled someone a zombie they ended up dead.
But don’t warn anyone about Tylee or JJ being in danger?
PLEASE.
She totally knew they were going to be killed and certainly when they went missing she knew they were dead.
But don’t call the authorities .
Disgusting
Right..... who would believe in this zombie B S.
Crazy people in this world...
Right on
I hope the police work up some of these people who were too selfish to speak up., Zulema, and the two Melanie.
Go z
Since she said she knew every time someone was labeled a zombie they ended up dead, that makes me wonder how many others ended up dead?!? (Other than the ones we know of) These cult members have some deep secrets!
Did this group really think they would get away with it all? Like they wouldnt just spend the rest of "this life" in jail???
Z is manipulating, n minimizing her involvement n knowledge of what occurred. Don't feel sorry for her. She knows but doesn't want to be implicated.
She valued her status in the cult more than she valued those poor children's lives.
Still in CPTSD survival mode.
@@mtaylor7307 yep unfortunately none of the victims survived.
@@maggielusk6833 Did you catch the Sharie Dowdle interview Lauren did? She just re-released it. I find of all the interviews done, that one give absolutely the most vivid context. It's the recorded call Sharie did of her conversation with MG. It's beyond disturbing how gossipy and callous MG was about the children she knew were dead from the get-go. All the while the people that loved those children frantically searched in vain. It is beyond upsetting to me that more in the cult weren't held accountable.
I suspect that the prosecutor gave some of these folks the choice of being tried as conspirators or testifying against the worst two. Unfortunately this is sometimes necessary to ensure the conviction of the actual, hands on murderers. We have to think-what if Lori were found innocent for the sake of them being charged with conspiracy. We are all looking at this from a different viewpoint of outrage for these innocent victims. One thing, none of these people will escape the court of public opinion, and you can bet everyone will keep an eye on them.
@@justkiddin84 I agree. And I also don't think that these cult members or others from that belief system have stopped being dangerous. Julie Rowe was Chad's best published author and in the summer of 2022, she gave a conference about Zombies. The AVOW crowd was basically super sized because of the teachings of Chad's although now they scrubbed him from their website. Minus the murder, those fringe believers are still out there in numbers too large for the mainstream LDS to squelch. This happened in the 1960s too with that LDS offshoot called The Church Of The First Born. Chad was trying to resurrect what the LDS finally squelched in the late 60s. Splinters remained. Look how rapidly AVOW and the PAP have grown? There is a market for these end times teachings and "other-ation" nation mentality.
Zulema being happy after the death of Tammy really made my blood boil. Her sucking up to Lori and Chad is revolting. I do think she’s nuts, but not insane. If these sickening people believe so much in religion, don’t they think Tammy getting busy in heaven, could be cooking up some karma for this sorry lot?
She sure would be if she could-and it’s coming for all of them, never fear.
I know right? Being all happy and excited because this wife and mother is dead just so he and Lori can be free to wed. The things she said were disgusting to me.
She's nightmarish, I would be really scared of her, she seems completely immoral and lacking any kind of sense.
Z is very careful with her answers. If you’re telling the truth you just answer the question.
IMO. Everybody drank the kool-aid in this cult, BUT Chad is the author, he created the entire story and then he became Lori's henchman in the murders in order to lead Chad's future world. Thank you so much for your spot-on analysis and hard work putting all those clips together
my theory - Alex was indeed the fall guy. With that, Chad and Lori had to get rid of him as well.
The way Zulemma behaved with the police after Alex's death speaks volumes. She is not innocent and she is not childlike
1000% she is a cold blooded murderer who makes excuses so she wont be arrested and spend her life in prison, her childhood has NOTHING to do with what she did to AC PERIOD
I still can't believe they gave her immunity from Prosecution.
I'm shocked these two are sold her nievity
she puts this little girl act.
I don’t think that our hosts believe she is naive nor innocent. They aren’t saying that, they are talking about why she fell in with this black mass of evil. Dr John is having to be careful, also, to approach this from a position of compassion. ✌️
Interesting that Chad says Tammy was happy dead and doing her mission. He never says that about Alex, Tylee or JJ…..and Zulema never mentions Alex coming to her from the other side happy and doing his thing. What a bunch of con artists.
She is up to her ears in deceit and evil, just like Gibb.
I read in the beginning Zulema was the one with some poison malachi stuff that poison stuff that couldn't be traced. And she was used for poisoning people Chad and Lorie needed to get rid of.
@@mythreerosebuds1128😢😢🎉😢66 p
@@mythreerosebuds1128 Remember Alex made a trip to Mexico allegedly to pick up prescriptions meaning he picked up drugs
In Lori’s sentencing statement, she said the same thing
Zulema is crafty and I sense deception and the reason why she threw that little tidbit out at the end was to make herself one of the victims and not the perpetrator
Or maybe as a reason why they went to buy a tarp on their wedding day?
I do not believe a thing out of her mouse
They gave her immunity. Why
When Laurie was hauled into the police station she said she did not believe in Zombies that Charles was making it up
@@katherineharvey3669 - Oh! The time she took Charles' truck, money & keys!!! Good point! Please notify the authorities in Arizona about this. This is crucial!!!!
Do LDS folks have a real estate and travel club?I've never heard of buying, renting, moving and taking trips all over the place while not seemingly being employed on a full time or even part-time basis? Is this a church write off? Massive credit card debt?They talk about buying houses like it's going to the grocery store..and the amount of marriages? Swap this one in, that one out.
They kill and live off life insurance.
It’s the murder for insurance game. Lori and Alex learned it from their parents.
They just learned how to play the system and murder for money
Greed power and don’t forget steamy sex! So Carnal and evil in every way possible
Honestly I view Zulema every bit as culpable as Chad and Lori. She had inside information and did nothing. She married someone who was a known assailant. She is, in my opinion, guilty by association and has been REALLY lucky that there haven't been any charges on her, too. Melanie Gibb, too.
There are SEVERAL people who knew what was going on and could have prevented ALL of these deaths! Since they didn’t get charged, they should feel VERY VERY ashamed and guilty and REALLY need to do a LOT of work on themselves!!! Shame on them!!! Children literally got killed!!!
Limited immunity for Zulema & Melanie Gibb so I hope there’s still a way to prosecute them after Chad’s trial is over.
Trauma as our foundation makes life as a whole complicated - to put it lightly. I say that from experience.
I appreciate how you try to lay that out, Dr. John. It personally reminds me of the “radical acceptance” skill in DBT, it’s NOT approval, rather is acknowledging reality for what it is.
For those of us who have lived through childhood trauma - which seems to be much higher than what I’ve observed is formally recognized - as adults WE have to put in the hard work of reparenting our innerchild, doing trauma therapy, DBT, psychotherapy, trying any type of therapy to help ourselves effectively live in the present while we still struggle with the past. While what happened to ourselves as a child wasn’t our fault, it becomes our responsibility as adults to heal.
Reflecting on my own journey of breaking out a abuse cycle - OTHER people helped me. I continuously fight for myself and I also recognize the importance of others in my life who were instrumental before I fully broke away from the own abuse I dealt with. I’m not giving an excuse to Zulema, from what I heard from Dr. John is instead of finding instrumental individuals to demonstrate healthy boundaries, love, etc. she found abusers who felt familiar to her, easily could have snared her with love-bombing / fantastical claims for the future to fill an empty sense of self.
🫂 For anyone who can relate to childhood abuse:
When we don’t face the past - we repeat it. Growing up, when I would try to discuss something problematic my abuser did, they would dismiss it by saying - that’s in the past. Don’t let people do this to you, it’s invalidating and dismisses your lived experience. Yes, it happened in the past AND presently there is have a problem with how that behavior is affecting oneself. Be a broken record. Best case scenario the person in your life who pulled that line was busy and didn’t realize it hurt you - worst case this individual might start undermining you in different ways. Maintain the original request, be a broken record ♥️ this is an aspect of the “DEAR MAN” skill from interpersonal effectiveness skills in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). Sending love 🫂
Why do people who are all mentally sick say they were abused as a child?
That’s all anyone says to blame their bad behavior! 😮
Many people have been severely harmed by an abusive upbringing but the vast majority of them and mentally ill people do not commit crimes! Many people with mental health challenges are highly offended by the common association because they are law-abiding citizens who any times parent the opposite way of their own abusive parents.
You put child sexual abuse & a cult that says they like you & u r special to them & their religion is the only true way & this is the outcome. Hopefully awareness is out there now for these abused ones who will know not to join cults that kill children & spouses as Zulema did follow.
Always enjoy when Dr John is on. I could listen to him all day. Great show, guys!
IKR! He's great!!
oh...I'm mistaking him for doctor "Babe"...must be his blue shirt color...lol.
oh that Zuelema really is an enigma and I'm upset how she and the 2 Melanies have gotten away w their crimes...WHY ARE they still running free to do more crimes, collecting welfare, having babies and living large, getting married, then divorcing like David Warlock and M-Gibb who left their spouses and families behind wow what monsters are out there lurking and getting away scot-free I don't understand...btw, I understand that the warlocks marriage didn't last very long they should have tested the waters and did the nasties just for fun I guess Melanie G is on to relationship number five looks like she's following in her quote unquote mother Lori footsteps
I find it very intriguing that the cult pushed her into marrying Alex two weeks before he died. I do not believe for one second his death was anything but another murder-getting rid of the hitman who took out everyone else for the group/Chad & Lori; and that Zulema quite likely killed him for them.
Lori and Chad considered Zulema too flakey. She called and texted Lori and Chad an annoying amount of times, very clingy, needy, and too questioning when the children were missing.
Same!!! I know it was ruled natural but I don't buy it for a min. I also believe he knew it was going to happen and good Ole Al took one for the team. Anything for his monstrous sister/lover.
@@Globelle Agreed. Cousin Meagan interviewed today speculated that Lori and Chad wanted Alex to marry because unmarried his parents would get his body and request an autopsy. Married to his wife, Zulema the obedient, meant she had control and she cremated him.
It's very difficult to find on toxicology sometimes the culprit because you have to order the test. If you don't know the compound to request, it won't be detected. Betting Alex suicided with the same compound they likely used on others to cause pulmonary embolisms. Unless Chad or Lori talks...or one of the Melanies or Zulema...we will never know.
IF Z couldn't trust anyone, how does she end up trusting everyone?
You know it's a creepy case when people have to ask, "Is she still alive?" Because so few are.
What happened to Zulema’s other husbands? Was she widowed 6 times? Was she divorced 6 times? Was marriage to Alex legal?
Yes, her marriage with Alex was legal and instead of Zulema changing her last name to Cox, Alex was the one whom changed his last name. so he was Alex Pastena... I assume, to try to maintain a low profile. That isn't being talked about that much, but it's a fact.
@@mitsuomits9077 Would be interesting to know what happened to the other FIVE husbands! The police seemed to have decided early on to give zulema and the 2 Melanies a pass. I don’t think it would’ve taken much to get statements out of them and also made them pay for their parts in the murders in some way, maybe with reduced charges - but no charges at all is unfair. None of chads followers were too sharp (but still devious) but they all knew what was going on. In fact every single one of his followers have mental issues and are very obviously not living in reality. Lori and Chad were both manipulators of the feeble minded.
Relatively new subscriber here. A journalist and a psychologist covering true crime together? Yes, please! Thank you for sharing your insight into the characters in this quite complicated case!
Hidden True Crime yt channel and podcast have quickly risen to the top of my favorites list thru the Daybell trial. The interviews they’ve done, the overviews by Lauren, the analysis by Dr. John, and the respect and empathy they demonstrate for all the victims makes a very interesting, informative, and fascinating listen. To say they started their podcast “on a whim” is surprising and shows just how good they are at what they do. ☮️
As a therapist, I am curious & try explore why a woman speaks with a little girl voice. Very telling.
Zulema’s child-like affect is probably a schtick that has worked all her life. She’s caught 6 husbands. Maybe she’s stuck in an infantile state but she’s so manipulative who would know. I heard Lori’s jail phone calls with Chad and after he flattered her she would sound girly and sometimes giggle.
It's the "relief society" voice. It's a learned behavior in the church. Listen to the lds general conference women speakers and you'll see what I'm talking about
@@NatalieStone-ww3gvalso known as the Baby Fundy voice. 🤮
Would like to see how the police interview would change if women or at least another woman was in the room. I have noticed when manipulative people behaviors change with the opposite sex.
Melanie Gibbs too. Only male policeoffisers in the interview. Both Mel and Zum acted flirty and giggling. Men like that. Those women used it.
As someone who has struggled all my life with depression and isolating and a lack of purpose, I still cannot comprehend someone believing all this insanity. Where is the common sense??
Out the window.
I'm the same way. Would never fall for this bullshit.
How many 7 or 8 year old girls understand that she could have gotten pregnant from her abuse? That just sounded odd to me.
Agree 💯! That made me go hmmm! When I was 7, I had no idea about pregnancy and I am around Zulemma’s age. I know today kids get sex education in school at an early age so it might be different now. I know this was 5 months ago and I am just now watching this video so I apologize for the late comment.
I agree. I think that whole story is made up by her. She lies with such ease….she may be a psychopath.
Yes, she has a rich fantasy life.
I knew about pregnancy at that age. my mom drew a book for my brother and I. she probably was abused. doesnt mean she isnt a huge liar about the case
A child that was sexually abused would know about pregnancy. Glad you had a wonderful and safe childhood though.
You two are awesome together! 💛🧡❤ What you two have, is what Lori, Zulema, and both Melanie's, are desperately looking for, but not willing to do the work for to get it.
Honestly, I sometimes think that nice, middle class people who get into clinical psychology and psychiatry forget that these are not patients who have come forward for help.
They are people in trouble with the law.
With a patient, you have to have a working assumption that they are doing their best to tell the truth, because they want a better life.
But these are people who casually accepted the literal monstering and dehumanisation of Charles and the children he was anxious ro protect. That they were demons, zombies, who deserved to be annihilated - by their own caregivers! And for no particular deed, just for being “dark”.
And now they are finally talking, their purpose is to avoid prosecution. The “benefit of the doubt”, the presumption that they are trying to be honest as a patient - that presumption is uncalled-for.
Not a moral bone in her body.
One lady detective I have seen in a couple of interviews, she made a comment to a social worker: “Sociopaths, they always get you believing THEY’RE the victim.”
Any person can be both a victim and a perpetrator. That's reality.
They were murdered for the money. Charles life insurance, Tylees inheritance and Sadly Jj’s disability checks. Lori had no money of her own and neither did Chad until Tammy died
@@pamelalange8569 Not to mention Tylee’s Social Security from Joe Ryan and JJ’s Social Security from Charles. Lori may have received Social Security benefits from Joe Ryan until she remarried yet again.
I do feel badly about her childhood... but, STILL... SHE COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS!!! People died... and she did nothing.
Maybe not stopped it, but she could have walked away.
I had a.much worse childhood than zulema....but I made different choices that's enabled me to stay married to a very good man for 50 years...but my healthy suffers....perhaps bcuz I met married a wonderful man who helped keep me grounded.
@@ZeldaZelda-RichesToRags A lot of people have childhood trauma but so do most people who end up in front of the police or judge , using anything to get out of trouble…otherwise let’s free most of the prisoners in America ( they all play this card ) She conspired to the murder/ attempted murder of many people…Children were murdered for Gods sake .
She can hide behind God as much as she like with her manipulative ways …..Evil
My thought is, how can we believe her? Lori manipulated the system that her last two husbands were the bad guys
@@sherylbarry9143 my thoughts exactly and I wonder why is she allowed outside a cage oh and did she cause the tornado in Florida if so why who pissed her off?
Hi Linda from Michigan thank you guys for sharing this mess with us and helping us figure out a lot of this thanks again
I have always thought zulema was involved in Alex's death.
Zulema is a "bruja" and she p0is0ned AC.
Most probably by Malachite poison, which is never tested in autopsies (because it is very expensive) unless you order the test and pay FOR IT ❤
@@marcosmarin8930 Rev donna saw poison in the deaths. It’s way too coincidental
@@marcosmarin8930 You may be on to something there-burning it produces CO2-and CO2 produces lung embolisms.
@@marcosmarin8930 Creepy!! Chad and Lori got malachite wedding rings!
You both are special to help us understand this terrible case so sad for Australia.
I’m in Brisbane Australia & this case has really got under my skin.
The reason they married was so that neither could testify against each other .
or hiding behind a new name (hidden identity)
And do you think it’s possible Zulema was encouraged to marry Alex so when he “died of natural causes” she was with him so she could be blamed? She would probably have been knocked off in time.
🎯🎯🎯🎯
Pulmonary embolisms sure are running loose over there.
So true. Joe Ryan as well. I seriously think this started in Lori's family with something going on with Stacey's death for insurance money and Alex was the guy to notify the cousin his sister is dying. This is a generational curse in their family. It's okay to kill for monetary gain.
There is a great grandiose in what Z saying that she is so in-tuned with the source that she can be a medium to translate and heal people’s issues… when she has not dealt with her own issues?
Lots of likes when Dr John is on. 😁
The only way Lori can cling to any sense that she isn't evil is to remain a true believer. If she acknowledges that it was all a sham, she admits that she was a crazed psycho. She can't admit that to herself. Reality is too harsh.
I grew up in abusive households, though not as bad as Zulema's situation. For me, after I was old enough to leave home, I continued to choose relationships that were abusive. I didn't understand it until years later. I finally stopped the relationships and just worked on myself. Facing my own shadow (so to speak). Learning to love myself was/is tough, especially when the abuse taught me to hate myself. It is still a learning experience and I'm working on 'me' each day. Seems to me Zulema found some kind of peace/love in the situation with Chad and Lori. She wanted to fit in and they really continued to stroke her ego to make her feel special. Also, I can only imagine how scary it would be to see others being labeled as dark and then ending up dead. This is not a group of people you would want to disagree with, at least not openly. I'm not excusing her behavior, though, and the fact that she didn't go to the authorities is very sad. However, I DO understand some of the reasoning behind it. But I'm no psychological doctor, I can only derive my opinion from my experiences. Nothing excuses murder, along with other bad behaviors, but there are reasons. Thank you for the work you are doing. In the end, however, I DO think she knows a lot more than she says.
The quality of your live episodes are improving leaps and bounds. You both were on fire tonight
Study ocher mind with floating objects
Thank you for this! It’s been read to Dr John as he is especially hard on himself and I think he does so well! We’ve been working to improve so thank you for noticing!
@@HiddenTrueCrime Then tell Dr. John I feel like I could take and really enjoy a semester long class on psychology from him. It'd be one of those classes I really loved back in college, the kind that really make you think. He brings so much of other expertise into his work, like his love of literature, and it makes it so compelling and interesting.
@@HeidiThompson7 Agreed! I would definitely be in that class!
I'm late to your podcast.
I started the other night but was interrupted.
I'm just now coming back for replay. You 2 are great together. Good show.
thank you.
you are both Beautiful. Thank you for your hard work. Your little man is one lucky boy . xx
Why would we think that liars will tell the truth under oath?
Appreciate both of you so much. I listened to all the Heather Daybell lately. Omg.😢 What a cool lady Heather is. Unreal. ❤
She is just a whole lot...
So many questions she has- "how could i be involved with people like this"
She was deeply involved.
I get the "mean girl" vibes in this group of women that were involved and lori was the main mean girl.
I sense zulema and m.g.
both felt very important in this group.
They thought they're terribly blessed amongst these other women "beneath" them.
Has Zulema yet condemned or shown or expressed any horror or grief about what has happened?
Because she did know the kids were labeled zombies, she knew they would be murdered.
My question is: isn't that considered an accomplish to murder, even though she didn't actually do the killing? Who knows, maybe it was her concoction that killed people. I feel the cops screwed up big time by giving any of them immunity. Especially her and Melanie. The niece Melanie. Well probably the other one too. They all knew
Probably not an accomplice or conspirator if she only suspected there was a pattern. There may be a duty in some states to tell authorities but I only know of certain people with those legal duties like teachers, doctors and parents. Doing nothing is definitely morally depraved.
0p
Olów
Dr. John’s impression of Z is spot on, IMO. She is like a child without any critical thinking skills.
subtitles is on that was so nice of you thanks a lot now I can play it all by reading thanks xxxx
Thank you John and Lauren.
Big thanks to both of you- but especially Dr. John!!! Dr. John, you are the best! Thanks for taking the time to help us collectively wrap our heads around these atrocious acts... you are very helpful to so many of us! Thank you!!!
54:26 Lori uses "Funny" when she means "the hell are you putting that in a text message for, don't you know investigators read these?" 😂
As always, fascinating info by Dr. John. I can't always participate in your live shows but I ALWAYS make sure I go back and watch!
Yikes to this story, and so thankful to you two for sharing your professional skills.❤
Maybe it helps to compare Zulema & the Melanies to James & Jennifer Crumbley. Arguably, these women were more on notice of people potentially dying in the wake of their religious activities & were in a position to stop it. I find Zulema to be extremely glib and callous & superficial behind her childlike naive pose, kind of reminiscent of Marilyn Monroe. I think she uses the veneer of infant-like bewilderment as a camouflage for her basic callousness. I wonder if she could be called a Histrionic sociopath? Whereas Lori is half crazy, I think Zulema & the Melanies are more straight-up clear-headed callous manipulators.
To me, Zulema is explained by her lack of Early Childhood Trauma recovery, without which, life remains as bewildering in adulthood as it was in the first years of life. They are called Adult Children and often speak in child-world voice. Great subject & show.
@sparrowhawk100 she DOES seem to like sounding like a child... interesting observation!
since last week I been catching up for memory on the case. This was a great podcast. I never seen Zulema's texts but hearing what you read makes me feel she knew everything. so strange. I can not wait for her testimony
Thank you Lauren and John ❤️ Rewatching, there is so much information.
Thank You Both.
This is very interesting listening to this in 2024 a year later after her testimony just last week in Chad’s trial. I didn’t know she was married 6 times.
I am new to your channel!! Binge watching all of your content.
Great video!❤
Did Alex have life insurance? I’m curious if Zulema cashed in. If yes, they all have the same plan. (Including Melaniece.)They all knew a lot more.💔
Brilliant analysis, Dr. John. Excellent juxtaposition of audial clips from Zulema before and after Vallow/Daybell and use of clips to empirically sketch and fill in Zulema’s likely psyche.
Such a wonderful show. Thank you both!
> I just found this channel and I'm loving it!! Ive already subscribed. This my 4th video and I'll be making my way through as many as I can today and in the future.
Yours is my fave YT channel. Thank you for the great content that you put out.
Thank you Kristi!
Thank You ❤️
Thx Guys - England watching LOVE your videos! 😘
We love that you watch!
Amazing how they consistently change their views to fit a new narrative! Thank you both🙏🙏🙏
Great show!! I had to catch it on the rewatch, Friday nights are sometimes tough for me to make the Live. I always enjoy watching!!
Thank you to you both.
I felt that she was in danger also after hearing that.
NSW AUSTRALIA ❤❤
Both of you are so awesome!!! I enjoy your program so very much. I’m so happy folks like you are raising the next generation, and by the way , what you already know, your son is a cutie 😻 Thanks for all you do💕
Fascinating as usual! (BTW Lauren the ombre hair is killer on you!)
Yikes , Zulema has a some major delusions going on 😢
Love you two! Just started following you and have truly enjoyed your show. You've given me so much to think about that I've not considered.
Like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. It seems like she really wanted to belong and be loved regardless of the odd circumstances. I had an afterthought, lol I remembered back to how Zulema acted after Alex died and how she responded to the questioning and searches etc. She had to know something to have acted the way she did imo. I believe she did know what was going on and I do believe the "blessing" was more of a "you need to do this for us" talk.
I agree with your assessment. Zulema was a key player. She knew what was in store for Charles, Tylee, JJ, Tammy & IMO, Alex.
@@gleefulme9617 I think so too but what I wonder is how much of what she was carrying on with did she think was actually real? Did she really believe all the earthquake, auto accident mumbo jumbo or did she just relish being "popular" for a moment and feeling Love loved loved byt LOLO
@@gleefulme9617 I left a lot of thought out there, but how much of all this did any of them besides Lori and Chad believe was reality? Maybe all of them I guess but it seems like after Alex "passed" it all of a sudden got Really real to Zulema...Or maybe she is just really good at the lil girl voice and pity me thing who knows. I doubt we will but would love to know exactly each part everyone of them played in the Horrors of LoLO and the Buttchinian
I remember her being so guarded and defensive with the cops…..
If Alex told her he was the fall guy, she had to of known.
That's exactly what I was thinking too. She had to of know what was going on the whole time. I said it before too that I believe Eldon," Chad's neighbor " seen something , so I believe they killed him the same way they killed Tammy. I might of missed it, but did they find the red or pink foam coming out of Alex's mouth too when he died? It's just too much of a coincidence.
I know I'm late on committing here, but it popped up here on TH-cam and I couldn't help but to leave a comment. I think there's more people than Chad, Lori, and Alex need to go to jail. I believe Larry even said it a week ago...these people were a clan. It just wasn't Chad, Lori, and Alex that were involved.
I find it hard to believe anything Zulema says, judging from the manipulation that has been attributed to her, so it seems thinking she was abused in childhood falls right into the beginning of her manipulating your sympathies. If you do indeed believe she was molested, I think you should also look at the alternate scenario of not believing she was molested. I think Zulema is a constant in the poisonings and has something to do with the fact no one has nailed down exactly what is causing these "lung" problems leading to death.
Wasn't she the one who had a lot of knowledge about herbal stuff that can be fatal to someone?
Her own son didnt know she was married whem Alex died on their house..she has NO sense of reality
I have just recently found your videos and I can feel Dr. John's compassion and his want to help. I think you two are an amazing couple. Thank you for helping us understand crime from this position it is amazing. May God bless you two abundantly. ❤️🙏❤️
Just today I listened to Zulema's police interview in Rexburg. I was surprised that she also had trouble remembering things as did David Warwick when he stayed at Lori's house. The descriptions were so similar, and I keep going back to the same thing. Could they have been given that drug? I was chilled when Zulema talked about hearing Alex talking but not sure and though she was trying to wake up she couldn't. David Warwick described what he thought he heard and thought after it was a nightmare. Both had spouses selected to this group for higher powers. Were Zulema and David to be on the sacrifice list?
Thanks Laureen and. Dr.. Babe! Keep it coming!
Everyone in this group is always talking about what a victim they are. They take no responsibility or accountability for anything. Nothing is ever their fault. All of these people are toxic.
Exactly what I was going to ask you Dr. J. Is their lack of trying to stop the deaths like Kitty Genovese?😢
Yes, I heard him say that in this program. “Bystander effect”
The Lolita & Chubby Douchebull Sociopathic Slippery Slimy Social Security Stealing Secret Society is a mini version of Hitler’s Germany. Encourage and excuse atrocities toward the “dark zombies”/Jews. Millions of people fell for the Holocaust mindset. Still do. Evil is real.
👺🔥💀👹🩸☠️🔥💀👺
What do the rats do when the ship is going down? Zulema & Melanie definitely know....
I know all the trauma zulema is saying but I spent years in therapy & giving my life to God, but I have great compassion for people & he would never be apart of evil, I was brainwashed I could go on but I won't thank you & John for all you do god bless you both in all you do I've been here for years since 2020
I think today the jury realised this is coo-coo land
FASCINATING‼️ Coming back and revisiting the coverage here. I agree with DR. BABE’S analysis 1000%. HE NAILED ZUZU! 😂
Perhaps Z was important to Lori & Chad because she was ‘easily lead’ & her important job would be to kill Alec 🤷🏼♀️
I agree. Alex disappointed them, so Z was new ‘hitman’. At this point, she was deeper in than him in her loyalty.
Really interesting insights and thanks for this. I'm guessing that Zulema will listen to this - I wonder how she's feeling now. Maybe duped, betrayed, gullible, guilty, and five other emotions all mixed together. Daybell/Vallow saw her weak points a mile away and exploited her, but at what point does a person have to take responsibility for turning a blind eye?
Hearing of Zulema's childhood abuse is saddening, and shocking but not surprising. it sounds as if it began when she was preverbal possibly too, which causes profound unknowable and probably irreversible damage (id like to hear more about that). Surely PD's are a possibility, NPD for example, would appear to tie in to the Not Knowing who she IS?
And would certainly make Z very vulnerable to cult action upon her and also her attraction to having Power, Agency.
But even so, as sympathetic as i can be to the horror she had to live, is it those childhood experiences that "allowed' zulrma to turn her back on Charles, (edit, and Tammy) and probably Tylee and jj, when she had guilty knowledge?
I struggle with this, its so COLD. Maybe there is a derealisation effect at play?
Zulema's mind as an Aquarium analogy takes on a sick and noir humour when you consider it is the aquatic life treatment "Malachite Green" (which is the toxic substance, not the stone, in my understanding).
Melanie Gibb makes my skin crawl - what is HER excuse for putting herself over the very LIVES of others, tylee, jj, tammy..?!
Melanie Gibbs excuse....I can ASSURE you that she is possessed by legions of demons, just as her FORMER 2nd husband David Warlock, Chad, Lori, Alex, Ian & Mel Palowski, along w those supporting and embracing the demonic teaching of the fringe offshoots...if only people would simply stick to the teachings of the Bible especially the state of the Dead.
If you go to Heaven the minute you die would mean that Satan did NOT LIE to Eve when he said "Surely you will NOT DIE...I know a lot of people like to quote out of context."Absent from the body present with the Lord"... but that doesn't mean all the other hundreds of verses in Scripture that tell us that when we die we are ASLEEP, our very thoughts perish, we know not anything. we don't praise Him, as we have NO THOUGHTS.
The Story of Lazarus Jesus Friend who died several days and his friends warned him that his body stinks.
But Jesus didn't call him down from Heaven when he called Lazarus to "come forth".....if people stuck with those Bible truths about the state of the Dead we wouldn't have all these crazy ideas.
Would it be Heavenly or wonderful if we are in Heaven able to see what is taking place on planet Earth with our loved ones and watching our loved ones being tortured with grief and tragedy and their their missing us or seeing the world go to another War where Millions are killed and slaughtered an innocent children being sex trafficking...
is that Heaven? I think not and it's why I will continue to Bible truth and believe what the Bible says..that we' are in the grave, asleep, waiting for that last trumpet to sound and the graves will open ... every eye shall see him and Jesus will be with a cloud of angels who will gather His own and our angels well Rapture us and cake those who are asleep in Him up into heaven to meet Jesus as He will not touch Earth until it is cleansed.
If you want to know the Bible truth about the state of the Dead just go to "Amazing Facts.org" your eyes will be opened too biblical truth the Bible says let no man deceive you!
This woman is a manipulative liar who wants the police to pity her . A lot of us have terrible pasts , so I don’t fall for the “abused card”
She was a conspirator to murder of Tylee, Charles, Tammy and Jj……let’s free everyone in prison because most of them play the same card to get out of the situation they caused .
No pity for evil people who hides behind god
Well said....
if zulema was so concerned about helping other children she would have done something to stop tne crimes or reported it
Exactly what I was wondering too. NPD was what springs to mind, including the lack of empathy and no accountability
Freakin’ riveting. Thank you. ❤️
She knew something was supposed to happen to Charles. It doesn't happen for awhile. Then he was shot by Alex. The average person would go "wait what?". But Zulema, Melanie G and Melani P then saw Tammy die, JJ and Tylee disappear. Somewhere in their own minds they must have feared they might be next. Melanie G. really had no choice but to go to the police when she realized the children were probably dead.
You guys are such a great pair. I love this channel.
I so much appreciate Dr. John's deep understanding of human nature and in Zulema's case, how people are drawn into and behave in cults.
Seems to me, since the cult expected most of the human race would be soon wiped out, it's not surprising they tolerated a few people dying ahead of such mass destruction.
It’s so nice to watch this knowing the end of both trials. Justice is done!
Is it possible Chad wanted Zulema and Alex to move to his (Chads) home in Rexberg so if the children were found Zulema and Alex would be help responsible? Lori and Chad could go off and work on their mission....
I think this is possible.
I love it when Dr. John is on!
I got a reading from someone one time, a supposed psychic, and he or she said I was I pirate in a past life.😂 Omg. This is making me so glad I never got into all of that.
Really love your channel absolutely think you two r awesome 👌