Why I HATE dual RCD boards | Nagy Weekly
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- In this episode of Nagy weekly I take you through step by step on how I tackle fault finding on a dual RCD board! (You won't believe how a small fault can cause such a big issue) I discuss the reasons why I prefer using RCBO's over RCD's.
I also take the bucket truck out once again to do some work and look at some streetlights for future work!
Stick around to the end of the video to check out the scooter course me and the boys built and use to RACE on Thursday nights!
#DualRCDboard
#FaultFinding
#RCBO
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✏️: Don't forget to drop your video suggestions in the comments section below
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▶️ Timecodes ◀️
🔵 0:00 -Intro
🔴 0:23 - Putting back James's new tool bag
🔵 1:05 - Fault finding on a dual RCD consumer unit
🔴 1:52 - What is an RCD?
🔵 2:51 - Why do we have dual RCD boards?
🔴 3:45 - Why are RCBO's better than RCD's?
🔵 4:29 - Triple checking that everything is off!
🔴 4:44 - Testing circuits with RCD!
🔵 7:29 - Do we have a faulty RCD?
🔴 10:01 - Testing the RCD again!
🔵 10:23 - Testing circuits to find the fault
🔴 15:48 - The fault has been identified
🔵 19:51 - This was the fault all along!
🔴 21:26 - Where can I install this mains voltage fan?
🔵 23:03 - Bucket truck work!
🔴 23:32 - Taking down some containment with the bucket truck
🔵 24:27 - The helmet is back!
🔴 24:55 - Taking down the old pipe work!
🔵 26:12 - How much is RISQS registration
🔴 27:33 - Checking out future streetlight work!
🔵 29:06 - Example of how NOT to do highways work!
🔴 29:49 - Clipping Earth cables
🔵 30:50 - SCOOTER NIGHT WITH THE BOYS!
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▶️ WARNING ◀️
This video is for entertainment purposes only. If you use the information from this video for your own projects then you assume complete responsibility for the results.
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It’s crazy to think how much work goes into these videos and TN’s still not hit 100k subs… really enjoy watching these vids, wish more people did too
Thank you for the kind words, we’ll get there eventually!
not far off though, only about another 8200 people
Only useless videos get lots of views and subs, Unfortunately.
What he is showing here could save hours of agro for someone..I found a wiring fault once..it was agonising, fault in loop due to poor construction of the extension wall. My friend was going spare. Luckily I traced the faulty loop using a DMM and process of elimination, other electricians could not locate the fault and gave up. I learnt a few things and felt humbly happy. I admire the patience that good work people have..
Thanks for the video 😊
Easiest way to find fault on a dual rod board is to take the neutrals out one by one till the rcd stays on
Good idea 👍🏻
Just make sure everything is unplugged on the circuits or you could do some real damage.
One thing I've realised about sparkies, is that no matter how good or bad the work is, if they didn't do it themselves, it's crap.
You could literally have 5 sparkies in a room doing a job and if you asked each of them what they thought of the others work, they'd all say it's no good.
I second that.as an electronic engineer, I hate reading other people's schematic diagrams Aka faults .lol 🤣
I have had arguments with sparkies in TH-cam that arrogantly think they know everything....but then they come up against me...and I'm degree qualified in the subject....so I really do know everything...I love it.
@@deang5622 He said, arrogantly 😂
@@deang5622 Love the brutal irony of this comment lol
Mondays always look up a bit when youtube's top spark uploads a video
Cheers pal, really appreciate it :)
@@thomasnagy most welcome. Loving the business management / on the tools balance you've got going now. All the best tom 👍👍
This is what I have missed Tom....to be Taught and entertained at the same time...... DO MORE TEACHING STUFF.. . 90% of us want the technical stuff... Thank you very much
This has got to be my favourite of your videos. The house segment was so enjoyable and the explanations were really informative.
I’m really glad to hear that, I will try to do more in the future
Don’t listen to people who’s life purpose is to sit and point out mistakes on your videos, you can tell you take your health and safety serious , in my opinion sometimes wearing a lid while going up in a boom or scissor lift can restrict certain angles of eyesight , although I do understand why we need to wear them ….. glad your enjoyin the new work 💪💪⚡️⚡️⚡️
Get a "scaffolders" hard hat. Far better visibility without the peak sticking out and can be a more slim fit also increasing visibility.
@@Jay369 good shout
Might be good idea to wear a helmet on the scooter course. Smacking into the boom bucket is a much higher risk by the look of it, apart from all the other hazards and sharp edges around. Unless suddenly one becomes totally invincible when it's play. Hypocrisy? Moi? 😵
My 10ps worth: The common neutral bar can throw any 'MCB switching' RCD trip test. A low L or N in an 'off' circuit can cause a trip in an other healthy circuit through the neutral bar and any connected loads. The only sure way is to isolate all neutrals from the outset.
As a gas heating engineer..I've been watching your content since day one and must say I love your work ethic and pride that goes with it..great stuff and great video again... keep them uploading..
I’ve watched every video on this channel at least twice and this is by far my favourite, some really interesting stuff ! Love it !
The scooter course at the end reminds me of Shenmue on the Dreamcast, as part of the game you had to go to work (you were a forklift driver) and every morning the gaffer organised a race for the boys 😂
The reason why you should measure isolation resistance while having the earth connected is that there could be leakages to earth that don't flow via the CPC wires. Consider the example of a damaged cable where the live wire touches a water pipe, but the CPC doesn't. When you measure between live and CPC, without connecting CPC to the earth rail, you won't find this fault.
Thanks for detailing that important testing method so clearly.
The regs states that Cpc must be connected for that very reason stated above, if your an apprentice when doing your AM2 this is essential as it’s a reason for them to fail you.
Think you mean insulation not isolation lol.
@@shumble69 you are right. I am from the Netherlands, here the words isolation and insulation both translate to the same word: 'isolatie'
elco_os 👍
Great to see fault finding vids. Good work Tom.
As much as I have enjoyed your "business" vids, it was nice to see you do some troubleshooting (fault-finding) again!
Cheers For the kind words Chris !
Another great video 👍. Definitely learn something every time you on the tools.
So much there to learn and enjoy. Thank you TN
Such a class video, always look forward to your stuff Tom, nice to see the type of work you're getting into too
Glad you enjoyed it
Excellent informative video. Agree with you about those dual boards
Nice video. I learned a lot of the fault finding part as a "non-electrician". That was really interesting to watch.
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Love the videos! Keep them coming!
Love the batten light behind you head in the cellar.
Another great video has always so entertaining as always thanks Thomas
Glad you enjoyed it
Priceless end to the video, very BBC!
In the early days of 30ma main switches being replaced in place of voltage trips .yes that old. We used to find cables nailed under floorboards &behind skirting boards where the neutral &earth were nailed missing the live . Once pulled a board up with 5cables running on top of joists nailed .We only had a 500v Megger to locate faults .Made your brain work to think outside of the box . Was interesting in my day. Used to enjoy being an electrician on my younger days .Electricity board trained. 👍
C2 for RCD main switch boards… very ballsy! I’d get accused of creating myself work 😅
Brilliant content really enjoyed this one! Thanks Tom
I’m glad to hear that Rich!
When I see a thomas Nagy video at this time I know I have to stay up a bit longer before work tomorrow.
Nooo problem in being "over cautious" imo wrt isolation, Tom. Better to check several times than to cock it up once.
You are right about overtrousers etc making you sweat, also when you take them off, you release all of your trapped farts!
Well done on all the stuff regarding WAHR. Loads of potential risk at height, but should be no problems if managed properly. Problems start when people get blase or lazy. You were right to point out other truck. It may be seen as "grassing up", but it may ultimately save an accident or fatality. Arguably, under HASAWA, if you see something wrong, I suggest you are pretty much obliged to take some kind of appropriate action. Many accidents happen because people "turn a blind eye".
Great vid Thomas keep up the good work. The electrical world would be a worse place without you.
Thanks you for the very kind words :)
Superb thomas,i really enjoyed that.
Tom mate this is probably the best content on yt, a bit of education a bit of day in the life a bit of fun and the best part is the little jokes in between🤣
😂😂 I love you hear it mate, I’m glad your enjoying the content!
Good to see you using the PPE this time if you go trackside you might need a blue lid though and not white one you will get used to the H&S on the Railway you just have to think safety and more safety it will get a lot more stringent if you start going trackside though the 35m high Abacus tower lights in yards are good fun to drop and work on.
Evening Tom. That was a cracking video on fault finding 👍🏻 I no you've moved up a few notches with your business but the basic ones are just as good 😊 Nive touch with the scooter race lol 😂 Cheers Stevie 😎
Nice video highlighting the fun these boards cause. I had a N-> E fault on a single RCD main switch Wylex last week and the Neutral bar was buried behind the rats nest, couldn't even see it....!
BTW having the CPC's in the the IR test also picks up if there's a fault between live or neutral and something bonded, e.g. a cooker cable chafed against a gas pipe. I start with them in, then pull them out if there's a fault to rule out that issue.
Definitely reccomend getting a tie wrap gun. Really does tighten them right up and cuts them smooth.
Yep, if you've ever been wounded with crudely cut cable tie ends, you'd be using the gun as well.
Flush cutters for a slightly cheaper option 😳
Cracking vid. To the point and entertaining🙂👍
Another great video Tom
The CPCs on those rings could be 1mm2, just bare that in mind.
If so you’d expect 2.5x the value of r1 or rn.
Great content as usual.
Bear... 🐻
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 🐻
Nice to see you working in sunny Southend!
I love seeing how things are done in other parts of the world. Seeing what's different and the same is quite fascinating to me.
I like and dislike DIN rail distribution boards. I like the standardization and the configurability but I like the plug-in breakers that are the norm in North American installations because they result in a cleaner install with fewer cables.
We do a lot of other stuff differently across the pond too and it isn't just our odd 120/240V "split phase" system that's a relic from the Edison days.
First thing is that we don't have big ring mains with fuses in the plugs; everything is a radial or "branch" circuit.
In the North America, the usual Class A Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter or just "GFCI" is a 4-6mA trip device intended to protect people on a single branch circuit. There are 20mA and higher equipment protection GFCIs (sometimes called Ground Fault Protection for Equipment, GPFE) that are similar to the RCDs in this board, but these aren't generally seen outside of industrial applications.
Circuit breakers with GFCIs (an RCBO-like device) have been around for decades but are only recently becoming more common in the USA now that arc fault protection has been made mandatory on almost all small branch circuits in homes (15 and 20A 120V) due to the advent of dual function breakers that combine an AFCI and GFCI in one device. With that said, GFCIs built into receptacles are still far and away the most common way of adding this protection; the GFCI sockets with the test and reset buttons are all but ubiquitous in bathrooms and any other place that might get even a bit damp.
One thing that's not different: Our displeasure at that unserviceable LED driver! That LED driver unit concealed behind the tile would be a violation of the NEC in the US. The inspector would be displeased and would make them fix it.
Liked before watched always a good video
Legend! Cheers for the support!
Excellent as always!... I have a problem with a tripping RCD at the moment with a customer, her ovens been replaced as it was leaking around 85mA and tripping. It has an old VOELCB on the TT supply to the board, that tripped as well. Im replacing that with a 100mA RCD & Isolator, fitting a new earth rod, as the only earth they have is gas bonding (which as we know is not allowed as a main earth) no water bonding, and the existing earth electrode is buried under a block paved drive lol.. and its open circuit somewhere, I like fault finding 😂 but i think i have opened up a acan of worms lol.
Good job I like u way of finding faults very good
Absolutely love this video i do like watching an electrician who knows what he’s talking about
You could maybe use heatshrink butt splices for those shower lights. Crimp the wires then heatshrink to form a seal. Molex do a series called 'Perma-Seal' that cover a range of wire sizes. Needs a crimp tool and a heat gun but the end result is a reliable, sealed joint that doesn't take up much space and should last for years.
Although I agree with the principal of classing a single RCD board as a C2, you need to take into account the initial install date. If the installation is up to the standards of the time of install, then no C2 Imo.
C2?? C2 code is designed to point towards a risk of injury from contact with live parts after a sequence of events. No way that a dual RCD board is a C2. C3 at best, but even C3 is “may not comply with the current version of the regulations”. Which a dual rcd does when installed properly.
this is what an EXPERT FROM NICEIC confirmed to me when an electrician tried to fail a consumer unit.
' iF an installation was carried out correctly at the time of installation to the standard required at the time of installation then you dont have any business failing the consumer unit because the unit isnt an 18th edition unit. the electrician backtracked very quickly as soon as he read the email from NICEIC.
The laminated checklist is an excellent idea... think about the way pilots do this EVERY SINGLE TIME ... never depending on memory..
Follow the safety protocol... Mr. Murphy is ever-vigilant.
And don't think in a years time you can now remember it.... use the damn checklist.... 😒
I also just want to say that apart from the information supplied in the video, I really appreciate the knowledgeable comments which improve my understanding of the art... 🤗
From the Emerald Isle
😎👍☘️🍺
Love this channel
Great video 👏
Nice to see you in sunny Sarfend Tom 🎂
Just Watching from 24.51 and though he is in Southend on Sea ? welcome to my home town sir Great Videos
I had the exact same problem in the summer. Definitely an earth fault in the house as I replaced the 2nd main switch with an RCD and it wouldn't stay on. Explained to client, quoted the cost to put it right, and haven't heard back! So I've noted it and put it in writing to the client to cover my ass.
Hey Tom. Was good to meet you the other day at Southend station. Keep up the good work.
It was lovely meeting you too Leo, cheers for the KitKat and water ;)
Hey Tom it is defo always good to check its off ive had it happen a couple of times when the main switch has failed and still making contact also with an MCB. Luckily I did not get a shock!!
That happened 3 times in my 30 years. Off doesn't guarantee contact is broken. Always test with tester.👍
Checking is good practice with electrics, many people have died with "switched off" electrics.
Live and dead wires look the same.
As I watch you doing the CU I knew it was going to be on the lighting cct, having just watch David Savery video on testing.
Great videos Tom keep up the good work I’ll be doing my ipath training soon to 😎
Thank you Roberto! And good luck with the ipath training!
@@thomasnagy thanks Tom 🤩
I just noticed that I had been un-subscribed from your channel, not sure how or why…? Anyway top video again! Loving the content
Thanks Duncan, I'm glad you're loving the content!
For those little lights see if you can find the old flex connecters used for fixing damaged flex's in line. They're tiny little enclosed connectors.
TH-cams best electrician uploads. Me: drop everything to watch it 😂
What dave savery uploaded ? Must of missed the that, hold tight
Must of missed the that? Special Brew?
Loved the fault finding stuff . Two thirds of vid. Think you need to offer an opinion as to who did that bathroom. The plumber ? Can't leave us completely guessing. No probs with rest but not in the cherry picker game as don't set my sights as high as you !
Well,thats why we in the Netherlands only put 4 switches per RCD!So in our boards are more RCD's than in the UK.Often 4 RCD's per board.And they switch also the zero wire.
Mr Nagy is branching out to sunny Southend on sea! I bet that was a git of a drive home
Rings could be 2.5/1.0 cable, I know you know that existed etc so I won’t bother saying when and whatever. Easy to slip your mind on the day tho.
nice work Tom
I loved fault finding there is satisfaction when you find it.
That "berminum" at the start of the video deserved a like ahaha
Great video 😎
Appreciate it pal!
Really good content, nice fault finding at the start too, I hope your still doing well….🤞🏻👍🏻
My home RCD has doing something similar. One RCD circuit trips whenever there is a power cut; when the power comes back on one RCD trips, it’s very annoying. Yesterday during the stormy weather the same RCD tripped twice. This RCD has all the plug sockets in the house on it.
I used to have a computer that caused a problem like this, so not necessarily the RCD (though if your one RCD covers the whole house it may be constantly close to its limit)
Make sure you get the stainless gun that goes with the ties, they are brand specific and very sloppy if you use universal gun, if you use the hellerman ties get the hellerman gun and they tighten right up and cut with no sharp edges
Check of the neutrals are in the right section too, always problem with cowboys.
Hanger Lane to Southend, you get about!
In North America we call RCD ground fault interruption but usually only require them on outlets in moist environments.
Because electrical faults only ever happen in bathrooms?
First thing i'd do is a neutral - earth continuity test. It's going to be a neutral earth fault or an appliance.
Wowzer! You sir travel a long way for a job. We don’t usually travel long distances for a job (if we can avoid it)
Working in Southend! That's a bit of a treck from your usual stomping grounds...
I believe 18th has made it so that you have to have more than 1 RCD or at least more difficult with the max earth leakage of 9mA per RCD.
Yes that's right 30% of the rated tripping current
I love this type of video, calm and very informative.
I'm not an electrician, but my knowledge to DIY comes from being a nosy basterd. 😜
I'm the kind that keeps a close eye over your shoulder to learn haha.
Things are veeery different in my country.
I'm the same..... a qualified machinist & avid DIYer, I think that my interest & willingness to learn goes a long way to making up for the lack of a formal education....but ....
I have always said ... it is more important to know what you don't know than what you do know... or more succinctly, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...
My education continues.... 🤗
😎👍☘️🍺
A lot more useful information and a lot less advertising and attempting to make money bullshit like other channels. Great work keep it up 👍
While you was checking the setup of the old street light ...did you check the diameter of the mounting so you are prepared for the reinstall of the led light.
AMAZING!! LOVE learning from you Tom. I literally have the sparky here replacing a lot of my unit with RCBOs as we have a fault on the Downstairs sockets and it trips the main RCD which ( is coming out). So Its as great to hear the info the what a RCBO( 4:06) is as that what I looked up to learn and got that from you in 5 seconds when you discussed this Unit. Thanks Glad to hear they are doing the right thing, I just hope they can find the fault. I feel its just an overload on extension leads and plugs on the downstairs sockets. Could this be the fault? we have a lot of computer servers and hue lights on this curcuit'? Thanks in advance. Can you do a video on RCBOs thanks and socket faults ? thanks
12:00 Actually Tom I find it's best to do a tripple IR test. One test with CPC connected to MET, one to the MET with CPC NOT connected and a final test directly to now disconnected CPC. It's just a technique I developed as i've come across faults before where the line or neutral has made contact or near-contact with structural earthing and in one case even a bare bonding conductor in the ceiling void. Gives you a better idea whats happening right off the bat.
Polarity wise with RCDs it differs from manufacturer to manufacturer can usually find a diagram somewhere printed on the device that will tell you 👍🏾
If you want a good breathable high vis gear look at what the offshore guys wear. Portwest etc. It isn't cheap but from first hand experience it keeps you nice and dry and you don't end up as a boil in the bag electrician.
Hey Thomas, greeting from Germany, i like your content colleague. You have a new subscriber. 😉
Welcome aboard sir!
I know it’s not ideal, but the driver for the LED marker lights might be accessible once the extractor fan is removed? Regarding the IP rating of the extractor fan, that particular model is rated IPX5 when wall mounted and IPX4 when ceiling mounted.
You are absolutely quality electrian ,where did you do your training 👍
IP ratings, the 1st number is the dust (solids) ingress and the 2nd number is the water ingress, so if you need an X4 rated fan, you can have X4, 14, 24, 34, 44, 54, 64 or better. the X4 normally denotes that it hasn't been tested for dust (solids) ingress, but I am pretty sure that you can install something of a higher standard.
the 4 for water (liquids) would be that it has been tested to resist water (liquid) ingress for splashes for 5 minutes from all directions with a flow that doesn't exceed 10leters per minute at 80-100 kPa.
what would normally be described as "Splash resistant"
I had the exact same fault the other day even with the same hager joint boxes in the ceiling.
Looks like bits of Southend Station :D
Amazing
Well done Sherlock :)
Betty Crocker is back - was zapped in shower in last video...now tumbling down the stairs 🤣
7:45 iv had that a few times after a board change where a fault on the circuits makes the rcd fail a test, find the fault and the rcd tests fine, if you where to disconnect the circuits you would have found the rcd to test fine, blew my mind
A neutral earth fault would stop an rcd tripping under test
@@Mainly_Electrical Of course it would makes sense now
Had a similar fault to this a while ago! Like you, ended up thinking the rcd was fucked… it wasn’t…
Ended up being shared neutrals between circuits plus a knackered old cable with cores touching
You cannot code a single RCD board that covers all circuits as a C2, because it complies with regs,. If you do this your no better than the drive by EICR guys. Maybe a C3 but that's about it
For the shower light connections...could you use marine-grade shrink wrap to make a waterproof seal that would be legal but still fit through the holes?
I usually carry a red marker with me to mark a bad unit with an "X" or a possible bad with a "?" so I can figure out which it is later...or chuck it in the fuck-it bucket :)
The L and N side of the RCD won't make any difference to the RCD trip operation but the subtlety is that the neutral makes first and breaks last
I've learned that an rcd doesn't measure, it compares. Our teacher in electric got really mad at us if we used the wrong word 😅
I know now that's more than just semantics 🤪
Machst du ne Ausbildung?
@@charliemccormack1231 ist schon etwas her...
Omg ive just been to an install where the driver box was burried in the ceiling behind a beam. 😂😂😂 i was very lucky the new fan worked with the old driver.