We had a client once, hubby had drilled through a cable, we came and fixed it and charged minimum of 1hr, we only took 20 mins to repair it. The client said ' you've only been 20mins' I said ' it's taken me 18yrs to only take 20mins' she said 'I never thought about that' 😂👍
I've learnt that when doing estimates its best to price your labour first and stick to that figure. Then add materials. I had a habit in the early days of pruning my labour price back if i thought the estimate was high. Dont do it. The price is the price...... Great video Tom.
yes, underestimating the value of your own time is a common problem especially with younger people... (for whom time is not as lacking lol)... learn the value of your knowledge
Yeah I used to give labour and materials!! Not now. Some clients just look at the total , so you come over as expensive when you could be cheaper at the end of the job.
Indeed - If they truly want to reduce the price, then they can reduce the number of sockets that they have fitted for example or get standard white sockets rather than the fancy brushed steel or chrome ones etc... So you can show them that you are not being an arse and are too rigid but that you actually do care about them and are trying to help them out while still doing a job to the same standard and safety and not selling yourself short . (Apologies for my language, I have been enjoying a few rather unSavery videos if you know what I mean, Dave?) If they are still not happy, sorry that is all I can do and then walk away.
Wife and I both come from trades families, but life took us to professions. From watching this, I suppose that we and friends are High End - there is sufficient money, and it is not our first consideration. What we all worry about most is competence, honest opinion given, turning up when you say you will. We all have little lists of known good people / firms. We talk to each other, and those recommendations count for more than anything. We don't care about the time. We offer to pay the moment the job is done. We hope that gives us credibility / consideration if we find that we have an emergency call out.
Customer: "Aren't you supposed to be working three hours longer for that board change?" Electrician: "Sure!" *turns power back off* Customer: "Wait, I didn't mean it like _that_…"
Great advice!.. I always check the house, car and interior design when arriving on a job. I always charge any materials, and my labour per hour.. Take it or leave it. I think its the fairest way. Never had any client not pay me in 4 and half years, and had loads of repeat work. Quotes if they want that will always be higher than any estimate.
"The less they pay, the more they expect." I used to work in software development in the payment processing space, and it took us way too long to work that out. Sounds counter-intuitive, but the clients who haggled the price down as far as they could were always the ones to demand just that little bit extra, constantly, and were never really happy even when you went above and beyond as much as you could. The clients who didn't care about the price just let us get on with it, and instead of getting us to cover "extra bits" were more than happy to get them done at extra charge, or get external consultants to do them if we didn't want to cover it. Seems this is true in all walks of life!
Yes, couldn't agree more. If someone's giving you a hard time before you even start the job then don't be surprised if they're like that about everything.
I work in industrial automation, writing software for other companies machines. Some of these systems are almost an identical copy. So some customers say "it's just copying the previous software, why is it so expensive". That's not how it works.
As a client (not of Tom's, I live in a different area of the country) planning some big jobs and trying to avoid being That Guy at any point, this was good to know. Thanks.
That was extremely informative. Thank you Tom. I once worked in the home improvements industry and it's much the same across the board: Always go in high; because once they've haggled a lower price you can never raise it again. Top-end clients are a breath of fresh air; but they're so hard to find. - Maybe they all live in London?
Even though you’re a great electrician, when you go into business for yourself you are basically starting out as a brand new apprentice. Hear out other business owners like Tom, they are your business journeyman.
The thing we are always coming up against is clients that will go with the cheapest. An then end up with issues. Which then cost them twice. Tom they are also paying for the job doing correctly
100% agree with what you’ve said. Another psychological top tip, never employ a haggler as a salesman! People who try and squeeze the purchase price to within an inch if it’s life will ALWAYS sell at a discount! I had heard a sales trainer I like called Benjamin Dennehy say this and didn’t believe it at first but it’s so true. The price is never the issue in sales. It’s always that you didn’t get across your value to the customer. When a customer asks why they should pay more for you, tell them: Wrong question! The question is; Do you want to be sat in the dark with no power wondering why you didn’t pay that little bit more for a better job?
That cuts zero ice in the commercial world, when you get involved with the big concerns they dictate the price and if you don't like it there is another hungry contractor that will step in. The bigger you get the more your margins are squeezed.
This video couldn’t of come at a better time for me, I’m a double glazing business owner but what you’re saying about customers is the same for us, I learnt a lot from this video and will put some things into practice after watching this. The haggling part I’ve not walked away in the past and the customers are an absolute pain and you end us losing money and get down hearted. Great advice again Tom.
I get some of my work because I'm the only contractor to turn up to estimate the job. Clients also tell me that a contractor turns up to do an estimate but they never hear from them again. I also find the more money people have the longer they take to pay.
I totally agree with that. I employed an admin staff member to answer the phone and manage the diary is I was so busy and missed things. Customers often tell me that my company has great communication. Best decision I’ve ever made.
I disagree that this should be placed in terms of "you're paying for experience". You're not; you're paying for the delivery of a service. Don't make it about how many hours it takes or how much those hours cost. The quote is for the service to be delivered, e.g. "replace consumer unit with 10-way RCBO unit, conduct testing on existing installation £xxxx + VAT". The cost of that service costs depends on the cost of material, the cost of labour (yours included) for the time it takes (on and off site), the costs of doing business and how much profit you want to make. The problem with making it about 'paying for experience' is with how customers weigh up an electrician's experience and training, and therefore value. If you charge (for example) £100/hour for your experience rather than £100 for a service which takes an hour, the customer will do some mental maths and come up with a figure of how much they think your salary therefore is. Of course they will fail to take into account that you're self-employed, have costs, don't do payed gigs 100% of your working hours etc etc. However they will weigh this up against their own salary and the known salary of professionals such as doctors, polticians, bankers etc. A customer may never value your time at £100/hour but may value the work at £100...
Years ago, my dad new a decorator who was going to price a job in Hadley wood, a well off area, he was advised to bump his price up, as they expect to pay more, so he worked out a price, and then doubled it, when he told the client, he said “ you couldn't possibly do a good job for that, and shut the door. More money than sense is very true.
That would be where I point them in the direction of my old Romanian mates Ionut and Florin 😅 "yes yes we do whole fuseboard for two hundred pounds that includes the nails to hold it on the wall for you" 😅
not just your game, I see this in mine ( and am pretty sure others too ) everyone wants to second guess the IT guy and haggle. Best bit of advice I was given when going alone was ( and you've said it too ) don't be afraid to say 'No' and walk away. I've had to get a bit more 'arsey' as we've been coming out of the pandemic and th ewuality of clients has shot up. I may share this video on my business socials so that clients can see we are on to them. Cheers guys
Wise words. It's taken me 4 years to get the clients I want. Never work for anyone that tries and reduces the prices. And now have a steady stream of good paying nice clients. Yes I do free bits for some of them. But only once we have developed a relationship.
I'm not a spark I'm a Carpenter and iv had my fair share of very well off people try haggle the price down. Over the years you grow a thick skin from it and any client that starts to haggle I stop them in their track and say You either want my service or not.
Tom would make an exceptional college tutor, if every apprentice or adult learner could spend some time with Tom I think the industry would be in safe hands
Excellent Vid Tom totally agree with all you said with the exception of the high end clients - we find the more money they have the tighter they are!!! - 30 years in the trade the only aggro i`ve ever had is with some high end company directors and a Rock star!!! -
I couldn’t agree more! Ive had 2 really well off customers (one had a super car parked on the drive) both were incredibly demanding wanting everything now with lots of additional jobs done “while your here” ! Both scrutinised estimates and invoices.
I couldn’t agree more! Ive had 2 really well off customers (one had a super car parked on the drive) both were incredibly demanding wanting everything now with lots of additional jobs done “while your here” ! Both scrutinised estimates and invoices.
Loved your tyre analogy. I worked for main dealer in the past (before career change) and have seen exactly what you said. High end car - cheap tyres - terrible road handling. Only the best tyres go on my bikes or car. Keep up the work Tom/team.
what a brilliant video Tom, I must say that I already do most of what you said there, I learnt it the hard way and now I have great customers, I occasionally get the odd customer that is a nightmare but I can usually tell that they're a nightmare from the start and don't take the job on!
At some point we (my business) took a strategic decision to increase the day rates to naturally reduce the load on the schedule and price out a set of clients. 2 surprising things happened: the schedule remained rammed and some of the worst clients (those who haggled the most and were highest maintenance) remained (at a significant premium too). The last bit was a baffling, but at least we started getting some compensation for the hassle.
@@UCCLdIk6R5ECGtaGm7oqO-TQ Spot on, I worked on a firm we did some work for a Russain he was loaded, big house and country estate but he was tighter than a badgers a***, questioned every bill. You just never know.
I was recommended to someone from a previous client. Arrived at his house - brand new Audi Q7 on the drive but inside was a dump. He wanted sockets moved from the skirting up into the wall, external CCTV and external lights. Judging by the existing installation I didn’t want to touch the place. I could tell he’s tried doing it himself, he also wanted a price right there and then. I basically said thank you but walked away. He was 100% the type to hold back money and ask for extras and not pay for it. Best decision of my career. It would of been a horrible job. They actually contacted me recently on a different number to try catch me out to agree to come and quote for an extractor fan. Very sneaky.
On the subject of cars - if you are looking to buy one on Ebay for sure scrutinise the photographs very carefully - but no just of the car but the house the vehicle is parked outside of.
@@stephenwabaxter So very true. Funnily enough my friend was selling his 3 series, he asked me if he could take pictures outside of my house - this was exactly the reason
And what's the excuse you usually use to turn down an order? I cannot imagine anything that's not difficult to say when you're in there in someone else's home looking at the job at hand...
Another great video. Back in the early nineties and old boss of mine complained that customers want a rolls royce job for a ford fiesta price. It seems somethings never change... and that car a analogy is something we all understand.
Then again someone who looks high end can be on the verge of bankruptcy with a huge mansion and never pays bills for months. Spends money on all the gadgets and never pays a bill. Yet there could be a granny who wants a job done safely and pays everyone in cash on time so what looks high end is not always high end it’s quality of customer
That's why I always do free callous first, that way I can gauge the customer. If it's small and fixable while I'm there I'll do it, if its larger I'll book it in. If it's a genuine rush I up my price, if I'm overly busy I'll add a 20% markup over and above what itll cost If they're a twat I'll either say I cant do, or add a 0 to the end of my quote, if they haggle at all I just say it's not the job for me and move on
I watched a lot of your videos and share a lot of the same experiences. I just other electricians listen and stop trying to cut each other throat so we all can earn a decent profit. Excellent job and great content.
Mr Nagy, You’ve come on leaps and bounds from when I started watching. When you started your day in the life of an electrician videos. I thoroughly agree with your analogy, when I started my business as a side piece to get through COVID. (My primary job was on hold) I started too enthusiastically with the jobs that I picked up, I went into in-depth explanations. Not good when it’s a layman standing in front of you. This probably scared most customers off. Also I was too nice and people took the piss. I’ve learnt that you’ve got to be Stern but fair. Also I might add, that in my part of the world. If Tradies see a nice car on the drive they double the Bill. Had it said to me all the time.
Great video 👍. Like many tradesmen who have been in this game for a long time, spend time on those regular customers who appreciate your time and work quality. Keep a way from the low end clients who want everything for ‘Nothing’ !!! 😁
Another perspective, I ended up wiring and plumbing my home myself as I knew I could not afford someone to do the job as well as I wanted it done, I had no other choice.
Coming from Canada our market seems to work quite different. We almost never give estimates, just a concrete quote but the UK have more safety items that could cause issues so I see why you estimate. We also work off of extra's alot. Like say I quote $12,000 for a standard trim 2000 ft/2 house and now they want pot lights instead of ceiling lights or add more outside outlets, etc. Then we do up a separate contract for that extra and the price is usually more expensive than the rate we use to calculate the job overhead. The thought process is we have a permit open so they cant hire another spark to do the extra while we are there and its less tear up for us to do it while the job is on going so we have a opportunity to charge a little more. I also used to double guess my labor alot when the job price with mats seemed high but you gotta hold fast with the labor price. They want the job done right then it takes the time it takes.
Oh man your bang on the buck there. Nothing worse than customers trying to beat the price down. Unfortunately I'm in the mid price bracket for the valeting and detailing in Edinburgh which I may have to out my prices up again at some point to get rid of they agonying customers
This is very interesting. I see something very similar in my work. Some clients "get it" and understand that our experience and expertise is what makes up the scope and timeline of a job. Others... Don't. They haggle, they cut on the time whilst attempting to increase the scope. They are happy to thin down the work for the satisfaction of manipulating the deal in their favour. (Spoiler: it isn't in their favour). But there is one thing I disagree with. A service business is very much about time and hour/day rates. Knowledge and skill will cut down the time required but will drive up the rate whilst increasing quality. Marketing and reputation fill in the schedule (in different ways). The ability to handle unknowns successfully most of the times is what makes it work.
I recently had a minor dispute with a customer over the price I charged for a job. I had to travel from north london to south to change 4 x downlight fittings which had old school wider than average downlights. I then had to go out find suitable lights and bezels to cover the holes. Overall a good 4 1/2 hrs from pillar to post. Quoted him £250. he said to me he expected to pay £180 for a full days work with other trades. I asked him has he ever had a tooth pulled before!? he said yes, I said " and you paid with no qualms" even though it probably took him 2 mins. I said Ive done as many years training in this field ,probably more longer than a dentist and on top of that I risk my eyes and even my life every time I take off a DB cover and that on top of the job is what you are paying me for. I said sure you may find cheaper but what you will find is people can introduce problems just through bad workmanship and experience. Dont under value yourselves boys and girls just because we get a bit dirty now and then!!!
Bloody _great_ analysis / breakdown, Tom. Can't recommend this enough 👍 And most of these haggly / squeezy c***s are usually buy-to-let landlords. Never haggle, just _walk away_ -- unless it's a _major_ client who is giving you _lots_ of regular work, as you say, but _those_ ones probably wouldn't dream of haggling.
Genuinely my mates a carpenter. He was doing a job for a well known very wealthy person who lives local to him. Job was 5 grand. When the job was complete the guy had the 5 grand in cash and counted it out note by note into my mates hand. All in crisp €100 notes until the last €100 which was €20 notes . Altogether gave him €4980 and told him the the last €20 should offset the cost of the electric he used when using power tools and charging batteries.
Tom what a refreshing contractor you are, I have a 60M house in Holland Park that I have a PPM contract with, which is very close to your office..................... I promise I will be in touch. I swear i'm adopted with handwriting like this 🤣😂🤣Top man! I will drop by one afternoon.
Excellent video. I do home repair in Southern California. Small job kinda guy, most clients out here have serious money. I tell the clients your home is my home and I never hangle price. I know what I am worth and my 40 years of experience shows in the completed job. You are exactlly right, repeat customers I will do anything for them, and yes they will get a price break. But I learned to judge a book by its cover, in just a few minutes talking with a new client, I know if they will be a PIA or not, if they are a PIA, I bid super high to not get the work...
100% agree, totally different industry however (3D graphics). My pet hate is the ones who think 'just this little bit extra' for free. I've had them screaming at me that I'm unprofessional because I won't do work that's not in the agreement... like mate, you came to me because you're tired of being ripped off by third world sweat shop suppliers (who give exactly zero craps about you or your project), you want a professional, this is what we look like!
im a new self employed spark/gas fitter, i have had several quotes turned down some people getting irate at the price who think im ripping them off, i don't argue i just say no problem good luck
Thomas Nagy does Reality. This is comedy gold ... brilliant as always m8. But one thing, it must be a London thing as the weathy tw### down this way are tighter than a ducks rear quarters! Yes, they start off all 'moneys no object... just get it done'. But come time to pay and it's... 'before I settle up can you supply me with a spreadsheet breakdown of everything you used, what you didn't, hourly timesheets for when you were here... oh and triplicate copies of all warranties, guarantees etc.... And once I have them I'll be more than happy to get you a cheque, my good man'! Perhaps time to travel up the road to London for these High end clients eh?
Apart from a couple of minor points I whole heartedly agree with you. When ever I get a trades person in I always make a point that its a good job I want. Yes price is important but I'm not here to haggle and bother with that crap. If there is something I can do before hand like put on back boxes to save a bit of time then excellent. But if they aren't level or I've done them wrong that's on me not the trades person. The issue I have is being quote £700 pounds by a sparky to put in a new garage board and connect 1 light switch and 1 socket. Where the list material at around 60 quid and the rest is not even one days labour. I wish I could find a sparky like Tom near me!!! Unfortunately we have a few too many trades people charging high end prices for a mid range job. If you find a good trades person then treat them well and pay them right!
We had a client once, hubby had drilled through a cable, we came and fixed it and charged minimum of 1hr, we only took 20 mins to repair it. The client said ' you've only been 20mins' I said ' it's taken me 18yrs to only take 20mins' she said 'I never thought about that' 😂👍
I've learnt that when doing estimates its best to price your labour first and stick to that figure. Then add materials. I had a habit in the early days of pruning my labour price back if i thought the estimate was high. Dont do it. The price is the price...... Great video Tom.
I do that now maybe time to stop.
yes, underestimating the value of your own time is a common problem especially with younger people... (for whom time is not as lacking lol)... learn the value of your knowledge
Yeah I used to give labour and materials!! Not now. Some clients just look at the total , so you come over as expensive when you could be cheaper at the end of the job.
Guilty
Indeed - If they truly want to reduce the price, then they can reduce the number of sockets that they have fitted for example or get standard white sockets rather than the fancy brushed steel or chrome ones etc... So you can show them that you are not being an arse and are too rigid but that you actually do care about them and are trying to help them out while still doing a job to the same standard and safety and not selling yourself short . (Apologies for my language, I have been enjoying a few rather unSavery videos if you know what I mean, Dave?) If they are still not happy, sorry that is all I can do and then walk away.
Loved the car analogy, seen the situation many times but never thought of it like that 😀
I think the same when I see white cars. Buy an Audi but won't pay the 1500 quid for a nice colour.
It is indeed spot-on.
I’ve used this analogy many times before too
These videos are an absolute gold mine for electricians starting their own business. Thank you Tom!
Bloody brilliant way of explaining it. Thanks.
Wife and I both come from trades families, but life took us to professions. From watching this, I suppose that we and friends are High End - there is sufficient money, and it is not our first consideration. What we all worry about most is competence, honest opinion given, turning up when you say you will. We all have little lists of known good people / firms. We talk to each other, and those recommendations count for more than anything. We don't care about the time. We offer to pay the moment the job is done. We hope that gives us credibility / consideration if we find that we have an emergency call out.
It Really really does, thanks
THIS exactly Tom... your analogy with the vet was perfect
I found that extremely informative and appreciate the thought processes and experience you bring to the industry and TH-cam!
Customer: "Aren't you supposed to be working three hours longer for that board change?"
Electrician: "Sure!" *turns power back off*
Customer: "Wait, I didn't mean it like _that_…"
😁 gotta smile when I read this comment
Brilliant episode.... something you want really hear from experience sparks
Love this channel !!! Keep em coming sir !!!
Wow, great insight to the customer psyche, great content, very helpful and informative.definitly sharing it.
Great advice!.. I always check the house, car and interior design when arriving on a job. I always charge any materials, and my labour per hour.. Take it or leave it. I think its the fairest way. Never had any client not pay me in 4 and half years, and had loads of repeat work. Quotes if they want that will always be higher than any estimate.
"The less they pay, the more they expect." I used to work in software development in the payment processing space, and it took us way too long to work that out. Sounds counter-intuitive, but the clients who haggled the price down as far as they could were always the ones to demand just that little bit extra, constantly, and were never really happy even when you went above and beyond as much as you could. The clients who didn't care about the price just let us get on with it, and instead of getting us to cover "extra bits" were more than happy to get them done at extra charge, or get external consultants to do them if we didn't want to cover it. Seems this is true in all walks of life!
Yes, couldn't agree more. If someone's giving you a hard time before you even start the job then don't be surprised if they're like that about everything.
I work in industrial automation, writing software for other companies machines. Some of these systems are almost an identical copy. So some customers say "it's just copying the previous software, why is it so expensive". That's not how it works.
I was briefly in software development and my only good client was a Chartered Accountant. Everyone else wanted everything for peanuts.
Absolutely positively true.
What about bungs and brown envelopes to get work and keep clients, and don't pretend you don't do it.
Another great video Mr Nagy. I wish I had a penny for every time I've heard the 'while your here can you just'
As a client (not of Tom's, I live in a different area of the country) planning some big jobs and trying to avoid being That Guy at any point, this was good to know. Thanks.
That was extremely informative. Thank you Tom. I once worked in the home improvements industry and it's much the same across the board: Always go in high; because once they've haggled a lower price you can never raise it again. Top-end clients are a breath of fresh air; but they're so hard to find. - Maybe they all live in London?
Even though you’re a great electrician, when you go into business for yourself you are basically starting out as a brand new apprentice. Hear out other business owners like Tom, they are your business journeyman.
The thing we are always coming up against is clients that will go with the cheapest. An then end up with issues. Which then cost them twice. Tom they are also paying for the job doing correctly
This is a good lesson well though out, it applies to all sectors not just sparks, great content well presented again
Many thanks Tom.
100% agree with what you’ve said.
Another psychological top tip, never employ a haggler as a salesman! People who try and squeeze the purchase price to within an inch if it’s life will ALWAYS sell at a discount!
I had heard a sales trainer I like called Benjamin Dennehy say this and didn’t believe it at first but it’s so true.
The price is never the issue in sales. It’s always that you didn’t get across your value to the customer.
When a customer asks why they should pay more for you, tell them: Wrong question! The question is; Do you want to be sat in the dark with no power wondering why you didn’t pay that little bit more for a better job?
This help me a lot for my mindset as an electricians. Will keep in mind of this guide.
Great advice! Trying to be too competitive can be a race to the bottom! 👍🏻
Keep them coming Tom!
Great advice all around! I especially liked that they're paying for experience, not hours.
That cuts zero ice in the commercial world, when you get involved with the big concerns they dictate the price and if you don't like it there is another hungry contractor that will step in. The bigger you get the more your margins are squeezed.
Nice material, I wish you the best.
Great Tom, so true 👍🏻🙌🏻
This video couldn’t of come at a better time for me, I’m a double glazing business owner but what you’re saying about customers is the same for us, I learnt a lot from this video and will put some things into practice after watching this. The haggling part I’ve not walked away in the past and the customers are an absolute pain and you end us losing money and get down hearted. Great advice again Tom.
Love the commitment to PPE, nice pair of ear defenders on the top of your board
I get some of my work because I'm the only contractor to turn up to estimate the job. Clients also tell me that a contractor turns up to do an estimate but they never hear from them again. I also find the more money people have the longer they take to pay.
I totally agree with that. I employed an admin staff member to answer the phone and manage the diary is I was so busy and missed things. Customers often tell me that my company has great communication. Best decision I’ve ever made.
Brilliant Episode Tom
As one of my best high end clients used to say "life is about managing people's expectations"
I have found this to be exactly the right mentality to use.. and it works for me.
So true. High end have high expectations and demand high quality, skill and experience to meet them.
I disagree that this should be placed in terms of "you're paying for experience". You're not; you're paying for the delivery of a service. Don't make it about how many hours it takes or how much those hours cost. The quote is for the service to be delivered, e.g. "replace consumer unit with 10-way RCBO unit, conduct testing on existing installation £xxxx + VAT". The cost of that service costs depends on the cost of material, the cost of labour (yours included) for the time it takes (on and off site), the costs of doing business and how much profit you want to make.
The problem with making it about 'paying for experience' is with how customers weigh up an electrician's experience and training, and therefore value. If you charge (for example) £100/hour for your experience rather than £100 for a service which takes an hour, the customer will do some mental maths and come up with a figure of how much they think your salary therefore is. Of course they will fail to take into account that you're self-employed, have costs, don't do payed gigs 100% of your working hours etc etc. However they will weigh this up against their own salary and the known salary of professionals such as doctors, polticians, bankers etc. A customer may never value your time at £100/hour but may value the work at £100...
Bloody amazing Tom, this works in my cabinet making trade as well
Know your worth, don't let a customer decide it for you.
Years ago, my dad new a decorator who was going to price a job in Hadley wood, a well off area, he was advised to bump his price up, as they expect to pay more, so he worked out a price, and then doubled it, when he told the client, he said “ you couldn't possibly do a good job for that, and shut the door. More money than sense is very true.
I think the car tyre analogy is absolutely spot on.
That would be where I point them in the direction of my old Romanian mates Ionut and Florin 😅 "yes yes we do whole fuseboard for two hundred pounds that includes the nails to hold it on the wall for you" 😅
not just your game, I see this in mine ( and am pretty sure others too )
everyone wants to second guess the IT guy and haggle. Best bit of advice I was given when going alone was ( and you've said it too ) don't be afraid to say 'No' and walk away. I've had to get a bit more 'arsey' as we've been coming out of the pandemic and th ewuality of clients has shot up. I may share this video on my business socials so that clients can see we are on to them. Cheers guys
Sage advice Tom,
I only deal with the High End, the Low End killed my business 5 years ago.
Wise words. It's taken me 4 years to get the clients I want. Never work for anyone that tries and reduces the prices. And now have a steady stream of good paying nice clients. Yes I do free bits for some of them. But only once we have developed a relationship.
Spot on with the car and tyres thing!
I'm not a spark I'm a Carpenter and iv had my fair share of very well off people try haggle the price down. Over the years you grow a thick skin from it and any client that starts to haggle I stop them in their track and say You either want my service or not.
Tom would make an exceptional college tutor, if every apprentice or adult learner could spend some time with Tom I think the industry would be in safe hands
Excellent Vid Tom totally agree with all you said with the exception of the high end clients - we find the more money they have the tighter they are!!! - 30 years in the trade the only aggro i`ve ever had is with some high end company directors and a Rock star!!! -
I couldn’t agree more! Ive had 2 really well off customers (one had a super car parked on the drive) both were incredibly demanding wanting everything now with lots of additional jobs done “while your here” ! Both scrutinised estimates and invoices.
I couldn’t agree more! Ive had 2 really well off customers (one had a super car parked on the drive) both were incredibly demanding wanting everything now with lots of additional jobs done “while your here” ! Both scrutinised estimates and invoices.
Enjoyed it, thanks. 👍
A great video tom thanks. 🤧
Loved your tyre analogy.
I worked for main dealer in the past (before career change) and have seen exactly what you said. High end car - cheap tyres - terrible road handling.
Only the best tyres go on my bikes or car.
Keep up the work Tom/team.
what a brilliant video Tom, I must say that I already do most of what you said there, I learnt it the hard way and now I have great customers, I occasionally get the odd customer that is a nightmare but I can usually tell that they're a nightmare from the start and don't take the job on!
My old gaffers rule was haggleing cost 25% extra
Great video. 😎
At some point we (my business) took a strategic decision to increase the day rates to naturally reduce the load on the schedule and price out a set of clients. 2 surprising things happened: the schedule remained rammed and some of the worst clients (those who haggled the most and were highest maintenance) remained (at a significant premium too). The last bit was a baffling, but at least we started getting some compensation for the hassle.
I wonder if Tom payed sticker price for his vans or whether he haggled?
08:50 Ooh, the more of your videos I watch, the more awesome you become!
Awesome information, just what i needed!
Here Here
I've found that many high end clients who can well afford anything will still try to haggle. It's a sport for them.
cheap skates ...
that's just how many of them make money. cut 1k on every service 10 times and they made 10k that month that they reinvest in a new project.
Most wealthy folk I know didn't get that way by being charitable. It's not uncommon I find the poor/average man more generous than those with money.
@@UCCLdIk6R5ECGtaGm7oqO-TQ Spot on, I worked on a firm we did some work for a Russain he was loaded, big house and country estate but he was tighter than a badgers a***, questioned every bill. You just never know.
Really helpful, all this stuff that wasn't taught in college that is extremely well needed.
I was recommended to someone from a previous client. Arrived at his house - brand new Audi Q7 on the drive but inside was a dump. He wanted sockets moved from the skirting up into the wall, external CCTV and external lights. Judging by the existing installation I didn’t want to touch the place. I could tell he’s tried doing it himself, he also wanted a price right there and then. I basically said thank you but walked away. He was 100% the type to hold back money and ask for extras and not pay for it. Best decision of my career. It would of been a horrible job. They actually contacted me recently on a different number to try catch me out to agree to come and quote for an extractor fan. Very sneaky.
On the subject of cars - if you are looking to buy one on Ebay for sure scrutinise the photographs very carefully - but no just of the car but the house the vehicle is parked outside of.
@@stephenwabaxter So very true. Funnily enough my friend was selling his 3 series, he asked me if he could take pictures outside of my house - this was exactly the reason
And what's the excuse you usually use to turn down an order? I cannot imagine anything that's not difficult to say when you're in there in someone else's home looking at the job at hand...
Great video very sound advice 👍
Welcome back
Thank you Thomas. That's helped me clear up quite a bit.
Another great video. Back in the early nineties and old boss of mine complained that customers want a rolls royce job for a ford fiesta price. It seems somethings never change... and that car a analogy is something we all understand.
Then again someone who looks high end can be on the verge of bankruptcy with a huge mansion and never pays bills for months. Spends money on all the gadgets and never pays a bill. Yet there could be a granny who wants a job done safely and pays everyone in cash on time so what looks high end is not always high end it’s quality of customer
That's why I always do free callous first, that way I can gauge the customer. If it's small and fixable while I'm there I'll do it, if its larger I'll book it in. If it's a genuine rush I up my price, if I'm overly busy I'll add a 20% markup over and above what itll cost
If they're a twat I'll either say I cant do, or add a 0 to the end of my quote, if they haggle at all I just say it's not the job for me and move on
I watched a lot of your videos and share a lot of the same experiences. I just other electricians listen and stop trying to cut each other throat so we all can earn a decent profit. Excellent job and great content.
Mr Nagy, You’ve come on leaps and bounds from when I started watching. When you started your day in the life of an electrician videos.
I thoroughly agree with your analogy, when I started my business as a side piece to get through COVID. (My primary job was on hold) I started too enthusiastically with the jobs that I picked up, I went into in-depth explanations. Not good when it’s a layman standing in front of you. This probably scared most customers off. Also I was too nice and people took the piss. I’ve learnt that you’ve got to be Stern but fair.
Also I might add, that in my part of the world. If Tradies see a nice car on the drive they double the Bill. Had it said to me all the time.
Very interesting topic. Made a lot of sense 👏
Great video 👍. Like many tradesmen who have been in this game for a long time, spend time on those regular customers who appreciate your time and work quality. Keep a way from the low end clients who want everything for ‘Nothing’ !!! 😁
Another perspective, I ended up wiring and plumbing my home myself as I knew I could not afford someone to do the job as well as I wanted it done, I had no other choice.
Same! I had a plumber fit some pipes and ended up ripping it out and doing it again but properly!
Coming from Canada our market seems to work quite different. We almost never give estimates, just a concrete quote but the UK have more safety items that could cause issues so I see why you estimate. We also work off of extra's alot. Like say I quote $12,000 for a standard trim 2000 ft/2 house and now they want pot lights instead of ceiling lights or add more outside outlets, etc. Then we do up a separate contract for that extra and the price is usually more expensive than the rate we use to calculate the job overhead. The thought process is we have a permit open so they cant hire another spark to do the extra while we are there and its less tear up for us to do it while the job is on going so we have a opportunity to charge a little more. I also used to double guess my labor alot when the job price with mats seemed high but you gotta hold fast with the labor price. They want the job done right then it takes the time it takes.
Interesting video Thomas, there are also clients that will pay over the odds if they think they are getting top end. The key is, finding them
Know your worth plus VAT top video.
Good advice, Tom. The car analogy is a good tool to use.
Oh man your bang on the buck there.
Nothing worse than customers trying to beat the price down.
Unfortunately I'm in the mid price bracket for the valeting and detailing in Edinburgh which I may have to out my prices up again at some point to get rid of they agonying customers
Brilliant video Tom and every word true. 👍
This is very interesting. I see something very similar in my work. Some clients "get it" and understand that our experience and expertise is what makes up the scope and timeline of a job. Others... Don't. They haggle, they cut on the time whilst attempting to increase the scope. They are happy to thin down the work for the satisfaction of manipulating the deal in their favour. (Spoiler: it isn't in their favour).
But there is one thing I disagree with. A service business is very much about time and hour/day rates. Knowledge and skill will cut down the time required but will drive up the rate whilst increasing quality. Marketing and reputation fill in the schedule (in different ways). The ability to handle unknowns successfully most of the times is what makes it work.
Well explained 👏
Another great and educational video as always tom 👍👌
What if the car is on bricks?
Good tutorial. This will help people.
I recently had a minor dispute with a customer over the price I charged for a job. I had to travel from north london to south to change 4 x downlight fittings which had old school wider than average downlights. I then had to go out find suitable lights and bezels to cover the holes. Overall a good 4 1/2 hrs from pillar to post. Quoted him £250. he said to me he expected to pay £180 for a full days work with other trades. I asked him has he ever had a tooth pulled before!? he said yes, I said " and you paid with no qualms" even though it probably took him 2 mins. I said Ive done as many years training in this field ,probably more longer than a dentist and on top of that I risk my eyes and even my life every time I take off a DB cover and that on top of the job is what you are paying me for. I said sure you may find cheaper but what you will find is people can introduce problems just through bad workmanship and experience. Dont under value yourselves boys and girls just because we get a bit dirty now and then!!!
A very interesting video, that charts brilliant
Loving the headphones top left :) lol.
Bloody _great_ analysis / breakdown, Tom. Can't recommend this enough 👍 And most of these haggly / squeezy c***s are usually buy-to-let landlords. Never haggle, just _walk away_ -- unless it's a _major_ client who is giving you _lots_ of regular work, as you say, but _those_ ones probably wouldn't dream of haggling.
Genuinely my mates a carpenter. He was doing a job for a well known very wealthy person who lives local to him. Job was 5 grand. When the job was complete the guy had the 5 grand in cash and counted it out note by note into my mates hand. All in crisp €100 notes until the last €100 which was €20 notes . Altogether gave him €4980 and told him the the last €20 should offset the cost of the electric he used when using power tools and charging batteries.
Amazing content once again🙌
Tom what a refreshing contractor you are, I have a 60M house in Holland Park that I have a PPM contract with, which is very close to your office..................... I promise I will be in touch.
I swear i'm adopted with handwriting like this 🤣😂🤣Top man! I will drop by one afternoon.
I go for cheaper tyres, but have never haggled a tradesmen once, never will.
Excellent video. I do home repair in Southern California. Small job kinda guy, most clients out here have serious money. I tell the clients your home is my home and I never hangle price. I know what I am worth and my 40 years of experience shows in the completed job. You are exactlly right, repeat customers I will do anything for them, and yes they will get a price break. But I learned to judge a book by its cover, in just a few minutes talking with a new client, I know if they will be a PIA or not, if they are a PIA, I bid super high to not get the work...
bid super high, then if they do want you, just subcontract it out and make your money without the aggravation :D
Great video tom
100% agree, totally different industry however (3D graphics).
My pet hate is the ones who think 'just this little bit extra' for free.
I've had them screaming at me that I'm unprofessional because I won't do work that's not in the agreement... like mate, you came to me because you're tired of being ripped off by third world sweat shop suppliers (who give exactly zero craps about you or your project), you want a professional, this is what we look like!
im a new self employed spark/gas fitter, i have had several quotes turned down some people getting irate at the price who think im ripping them off, i don't argue i just say no problem good luck
All very true, good guide to go by.✅
Thomas Nagy does Reality.
This is comedy gold ... brilliant as always m8. But one thing, it must be a London thing as the weathy tw### down this way are tighter than a ducks rear quarters!
Yes, they start off all 'moneys no object... just get it done'. But come time to pay and it's... 'before I settle up can you supply me with a spreadsheet breakdown of everything you used, what you didn't, hourly timesheets for when you were here... oh and triplicate copies of all warranties, guarantees etc.... And once I have them I'll be more than happy to get you a cheque, my good man'!
Perhaps time to travel up the road to London for these High end clients eh?
Great video
Apart from a couple of minor points I whole heartedly agree with you. When ever I get a trades person in I always make a point that its a good job I want. Yes price is important but I'm not here to haggle and bother with that crap.
If there is something I can do before hand like put on back boxes to save a bit of time then excellent. But if they aren't level or I've done them wrong that's on me not the trades person.
The issue I have is being quote £700 pounds by a sparky to put in a new garage board and connect 1 light switch and 1 socket. Where the list material at around 60 quid and the rest is not even one days labour.
I wish I could find a sparky like Tom near me!!! Unfortunately we have a few too many trades people charging high end prices for a mid range job.
If you find a good trades person then treat them well and pay them right!
Great vid Tom and a very helpful for me