I would go with option 3 used engine, you can always try and inspect it using a small camera on the piston chambers and see if there's any shadows or possible score marks, and then spend the rest on refurbishing it, and would be less of a loss on the purchase...
what he said......a second hand engine shouldn't be too risky if you do these checks....Might be worth checking the mileage though..if your engine has done 50k miles and second hand is 150k miles then the resale value is less...
I'd go for option 1, the new engine because that's what I'd prefer to buy as well... new Audi engine is what you want as a buyer. But also consider this, there are plenty of saleable parts off the old engine, like the other head and bits and pieces that could knock a couple of grand off that price too. If you can negotiate a better deal with your dealer on it too, it'll save you loads of work and headaches and you won't be that far off the cost of the other options.
Could also take him years to get that money back and its alot of money to have tied up in parts to sell one at a time. Plus it'd be a ball ache posting all that. Then returns and refunds. Most people that can afford that car wont buy used parts on the internet etc
Also. If that were an option. Then rhe 2nd hand engine would make more sense. He could, over time potentially make money on the purchase. Obviously check the used engine. Scope it and find out why it was removed etc. Usually there's some warranty with a purchase like that.
For option 4 you should also factor in at least a couple of Conrods as when you have valve heads bouncing around in the combustion chamber there's a good chance you could bend them. Can I make a suggestion you may want to consider having the bores looked at, at an aluminium bore specialist and having them bored or honed out and re nikasil plated (depends on the depth of the damage)
these engines are not nikasil plated. they use an aluminum alloy called Alusil that is high in silicon. The bore surface is honed using a paste that etches the aluminum but leaves the little microscopic silicon nodules. This creates a perfect surface on the bores for oil to stick. These cannot be honed or plated in the traditional manner
I would go with option 3...but like others have said..borescope, compression check,pull all the plugs and get one if possible with a full service history...Also...let's see the next project....👍👍👍👍
Agree with above as the best option. If that doesn't work out, I'd suggest refurbishing the existing block with steel cylinder liners and adding new forged pistons/conrods. Then you'd have a bulletproof engine that should last longer than Audi's original design, and that would also add more value to the car.
@@DJDinaggio Converting to steel cylinder liners is very risky. Saw on another channel something similar (but can remember if it was allu block with steel cylinder or the other way around) and after 1000 km engine got destroyed. Because of difference in heat expansion of steel vs allu cylinders, your piston ring gaps should also differ from what Audi states in their repair manual for a allu cylinder with the stock piston.
I'd pick Option 2 re-liner and new pistons. It will be bullet proof and you are replacing all the damaged stuff that would otherwise be risky. I think it would also be the one that a buyer would be most comfortable with, besides a new engine.
Personally I’d go with option 3 but ask if you can have a look at it first and look down all the bores down the spark plug tube, and ask about it’s history.
Not being an engineering expert in any way I’d lean towards option 4 however if I was buying this car form you I’d know it’s in top condition as you can literally watch it being built from the ground up! The videos are amazing .. as always good luck with the rebuild!!
Well another excellent channel dealing with my life's love, motor cars. Back in the 80's and early 90's I used to rebuild damaged repairable high end Japanese sports cars, approx 15 all told, but they were not anywhere near as complicated as the vehicles are now. However what I always did was examine the vehicle from all angles and aspects, and find out what damage was apparent then took loads of photos Bonus print made a fortune out of me. Then I would scrupulously clean the engine bay and damaged area with a power washer and or a steam cleaner. This in my mind made the whole dismantle and rebuild process so much easier. One thing to add though I only bought cars that were 4 years old or newer, it made removing rusted bolts etc so much easier. For your dilemma, I would go for opt 4 but build in a 20>25% cost increase in your estimate, so you would be looking at approx £10k plus, but have the assurance of knowing that most things are covered and at 40k miles its worth the risk and half the cost of a new engine. Unless of course you can find a unicorn with more or less the same mileage with structural damage. Good luck with the project, I am enjoying your production and have subscribed.
Really? I thought that was the worst option of the lot. Audi never designed this high performance engine to use steel liners. The work is highly risky and doesn’t guarantee a reliable product in the end.
From your perspective as the builder, I immediately thought re-bore the cylinder out, didn’t realise it was that difficult! From a buyer perspective, I think would be happiest with the new engine from audi, however that isn’t the most cost effective for you
Tricky: As soon as you remove an engine, the car is devalued. Some buyers won't go near it now. How do they judge who's done the work has done a perfect job, for example. You're just a stranger to them, despite your reputation for good work. I'd go option 3 & do as many checks as I could on it and hope it's ok, before selling it soon after the swap. It's just not worth sinking money into it, now the original engine has been removed. You'd could sell some parts off the old engine too, to help the budget. Good content - keep up the good work. 👊
I'm no car mechanic but this is addictive. It reminds me of 'Take Hart' and Morph when I was a kid -especially the sounds. PS - Gotta be Option 3 (should you get a good feeling with /know/trust the seller)
Option four for me from both perspectives. From a buyers viewpoint it’s the damaged components have been replaced and all other components have been check during disassembly and assembly. From your perspective the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Appreciate it’s not the cheapest option but it is the safest and can also be used as a selling point.
Hi Dean. After discovering your channel by chance, I've binge watching all your videos since the beginning. Keep up the good work. As for the R8, in an ideal world the new engine would be the choice but option 4 has the less risk out of the others and you would know what you got in the end. If I were to buy the car, option 4 is what I would prefer. As for the next project, I miss the RS6 and it's a good time to get it back on the road. Cheers!
Hi Dean, Ref Engine rebuild.. I'd stay well away from another second hand engine, their engine could be as close to snapping valves as your engine has done.. New engine would be a cracking good idea, sadly cost is well out there for it.. New liners and pistons again ... Good idea on cost .. but again, not my choice.. I'd go with new crank case ( only when your Old engine is stripped ) the crank Main and Little end bearings hve been checked and the connecting rods checked .. If anything is scored to deap .. then I'd look at a short block and have the head work done on new and old head to allow same size head gaskets to be used....... Keep up the good work.. Will be nice to hear it run again... Andy
I would certainly go with option 4. It what makes you feel comfortable and the same goes for a future owner. The milage of the car vertical check was not so high which therefore applies to all the ancillary parts.
My father and I buy and sell cars and I have been on the website and nearly bought an r8 last year that needed body/ shell repair these videos are a great start for when I decide the make the jump
Option 2 or 4 would be the best content and also on resale at a later day, great content as always, you need a oil burner to heat your workshop- uses all your used oil
No doubts about going for the second hand engine. You still have a long way to go rebuilding and you know the components you have to work with have suffered some serious mechanical stresses, not to mention heat. There is the question around why it happened in the first place too. The loose nut! So, having just been faced with a similar issue in the last several weeks, I would go for the used engine, but be picky about where you get if from. Finally, I am a likely buyer for this kind of car. The option I would be most happy with is the used engine with provenance. The car is used, and has clearly had a issue. The engine rebuild is unproven, whereas a used engine from an identified damaged vehicle is a no brainer. Personally, I would walk away from anything less. That's just my penny's worth.
Well you have to consider what kind of a car it is too and its a 99.99% chance it has been driven very hard so the entire drivetrain need a very thorough check by an expert and odds are money will fly....
No to 1 or 2 imho. 3/3+ seems like the best bet. Sounds like the only option with potential for price negotiation too. You can test compression to gauge secondhand engine health - you just need a good battery and a starter. Best of luck Dean.
Option 5. Squirt a couple of tubes of Holts Piston Seal down the plug hole, and that should sort the bore out! Worked for me on my 197 Villiers engine, then sell it quick smart.
Option 3 mate all day long, all those spare parts that you’ll have left over too at the end of the day could sell and recover some of your costs, if you want I get a pretty good discount level at TPS if you want a new engine or parts haha
Long time viewer here Dean. Been following since the 8p rs3! Like a lot of other people I would echo how nice its been seeingyour Chanel grow and your production values get better. As far as options go I'd definatly rebuild and re sleeve. It's not that much more than a clean short block and if you upgrade pistons, rods, bearings as well as sleeves with a reliable builder the engine will come back stronger and be good for a twin turbo project. With a manual box a tt setup it'll be a pretty awesome build and faster/lighter than the v10. Would make for good content seeing the sleeving process and adding twin turbos too! If plans to keep it stock then go snew short block and head from audi. Seems a missed opportunity not to build it up if the engines out...
Im a mechanic tbh I would lightly hone the scored cylinder and let the new rings do the rest... Failing that I would take a chance on a second hand engine from a crashed car... That way you could recover a bit of your costs by selling the spare parts... Enjoying this series immensely ...Thanks...
I'd be picking option 4 Dean. You don't know the history of the secondhand engine so why risk it, plus you know this one had low miles before the engine failure and it makes sense to rebuild it with all new parts. Even if you have to spend a few quid more it'll be practically a new engine again, not a part secondhand one. GL with your choice I look forward to watching the builds :)
I would go for option 3. You could still buy all the gasket, seals and timing kits and do a full inspection on the bores. The issue surrounding your particular engine seems to be limited to the valve damaging the top of the bore, most likely as a direct result of the loose cam bolt and the timing skipping. For comparison, I believe the Range Rover Evoque of a certain year range has a similar issue with cam bolts coming loose and they aren’t usually found until the engine needs new timing chains and guides. The original ones are supposed to be pretty low quality. At least with a known running engine you could do the all of the work to replace gaskets, seals etc, with new parts and know that the engine will be good. Thread lock the cam bolts for peace of mind and you should be good. You would also save a good bit of cash too and that would translate to more money in the sale of the car at a later date.
Option 4 for me - the best balance of cost vs outcome. Yes the used lump is cheaper, but it's just a used lump and without a detailed inspection you could be buying anything. I can't work out if you are brave or just mad taking this one on - but you'll get there 👍
Hi Dean, i would only have 2 options, Option 1 & 3. Option 1 if I'm keeping it, option 3 if I'm selling it. Thanks for all the great video's and great channel.👍👍
Option 3 with an inspection before buying. Turn it over, pull the plugs inspect the bores. Zero issues with a used engine, after all every single car driving on the roads has a used engine. Not to mention, good luck getting all the parts needed for a rebuild. My best mates a mechanic at an AUDI dealership, they currently have 13 cars sat in the yard waiting on backordered parts. The worst of them has been there 4 months now.
Great video. Not a nice dilemma at all 🤔 Option 4 for me, as a safe bet, followed by option 2. Good luck with what ever you decide and am really looking forward to the rest of this series 👍👍
I would buy the car with the brand new engine, if you’re selling the car on , you will definitely attract buyers with a higher price as will have a new factory built engine & I’ll guess some kind of warranty
TH-camr Watch JRGO, he bought a used Jag engine. In that deal, he was able to return the engine if there was a problem (which there was) and get another one. If the used option comes with warrenty, then that would be good viewing for your channel. Failing that, swapping parts onto a new crankcase is equally interesting. Love the 'Save the R8' project!
Before making a decision I would check the other cylinder head as if you have to go for a new crankcase you may then find the other head is knackered making the second hand engine more of a bargain before buying it would be worth popping off the cam covers and checking the cams and rockers and doing a boreoscope for any bore scoring..
I would go for option 3 and check the engine carefully, possibly with a camera to look at the piston liners, if possible take the oil pan down and check there, look in the oil filters
Hiya Dean, at the risk of getting shot down here is the Audi V8 not used in other Audi models through the range? If you just need a block/bottom end is it feasible to use one from another Audi model car if they are the same? M539 restorations did this when he rebuilt his V8.
No different to any other. Any R8 could of had major repair work done to it. A new engine would increase the value slightly. A rebuilt one with a new crankcase would retain value. As long as everything works as it should.
I think id be tempted by option 3, plenty checks like compression and a look down the bores then give it a refresh to make sure everything's sweet. New tensioners etc
Always remember an engine swap with a second hand from a scraped car. When I asked if it was good got the “It was running when it crashed”…… Barely, engine after swap was breathing oil and as knackered as the first plus less hundreds of labour. You have get a warrantied one that has been thoroughly checked over.
Great video Dean, It a tough one. Option 3 makes a lot of sense, chances are a second hand engine has come from a crashed damaged car, the engines at the back so no engine damage also they are not an everyday car so it won't have spaceship mileage on it' obviously do what ever checks before paying for it. Option 4 would be my second choice. Good luck mate.
Hi Dean - I was leaning towards the 'ebay' engine, until you said which option would I be happy to buy. Therefore, it has to be your favourite - option 4. Looking forward to the content, whichever way you end up going. Love the channel, and look forward to every episode....😁
Option 2. Rather have a steel bore than an alloy one. Whatever you do is going to cost big bucks, get the heads polished & ported whilst you're at it. That car will still make you money!
I would go for the secondhand engine rebuild all day long especially if you are allowed to do a bit of inspection and are given some history that says the engine came from a running car. Your new block option assumes that the existing crank is good and all the con rods are straight etc etc. Please wheel the new project in while you ruminate/await deliveries. All the very best whichever route you take.
OPTION 5 - look at the LS3 and LS7 crate engines or even the R8 v10. I would love to see an R8 with a Porsche Turbo engine and transmission in it! Option 3: The 2nd hand engine is the quickest and cheapest option if you can see it running first! Option 3+ gives peace of mind. HOWEVER, are we sure that the transmission is okay if the engine seized like that? Good Luck!
Option 3 and take a look inside all of the cylinders to look at the state of the valves, honing and other symptoms. Do you know why the engine is for sale? Could have been in a frontal crash. Your preferred option 4 sounds more of a money pit than you might realise. If I was a potential buyer for this car I'd be happy with option 3 or 3+, if you had to address issues with the 2nd hand engine. But what do I know 😊
I would go with option 2 if it can be heard running , option 3 if like many others have said doing bore check etc , then option 4 if 2 and 3 are not convincing enough for you .
All this depends on cost and your end option...buy or sell. My option would be 1. This depends on costs and warranty availability. I am not convinced anything modified to one side of a V engine would be a good option. Of course there is always the thought that if you did buy a new engine, what parts would you still have on the current engine to part out towards the cost of a new one? Hope this gives you some ideas Dean. Good luck whichever way you go. Cheers, Bob
Well, you are so far into this there is no going back! Option 4 is a lot of work and possibly there is greater cost that your initial estimate. Option 3 or 3+ are probably good PROVIDED that you can get some history and the ability to inspect as other have suggested - check oil (even get it analysed for swarf), horoscope into cylinders and compression test. These check would significantly reduce risk and give a potentially better vale. Acid test for purchase? Option 3+ with documented work carried out.
A used engine with warranty would be my choice, warranty being the key factor. A decent borescope/laparoscope may be a good purchase to establish cylinder bore condition. Also you would have a donor engine for this build and future parts depending on how complete the 2nd engine is. Yes it would still be a risk but you took the biggest buying the car !! Good luck, it will be great seeing the R8 back on the road.
Option 4 I think is a good one given that you don't have any damage to the crank and rods for an extra £1250 compared to option 3+ you are guaranteeing yourself having a good and fully working engine.
option 4, replacing the parts that broken. However I think it will end up costing more than you think with all the auxiliaries, and its possible the existing piston rods and head might be damaged too. Pro is, you end up with very near new engine.
Option 4 seems the best as you know what you are dealing with. Problem with option 3+ is that sod’s law will dictate that the used engine you are rebuilding will need a component that you have already broken or worn out on the original engine. Also the car will still have the same engine number it was shipped with. Like the pace and the way you do the videos.
This is a conundrum. Easiest option to complete and sell... Option 1, but then you lose original engine matching numbers scenario. Option to buy secondhand on a performance car like this.. too risky I think... unless the engine is coming out of a very low mileage write off R8. But still risky. Option 4 sounds like the best option but with all these projects hidden problems and additional costs could mount up?? Then what cost do you finish with?? I think if I was buying the car a new engine would give me more confidence. Good luck with this project.. a good one for the channel.
To me it depends if you're going to keep the R8 as a forever car. If that was the case, Id go option #2. Reasons: 1. That way it will be inherently a stronger engine with steel liners. 2. Will be able to be bored to oversize down the track.(wear or damage) 3. You could buy trick rods and pistons that are capable of high Hp. 4. Built engine allows for off the shelf aftermarket Twin Turbo kit. Defiantly a tricky decision. A brand new motor sounds tempting...But a steel sleeved and built bottom end is future proofed and stronger.
I am going with the used engine....provided mileage is low and comes from a reputable breaker. I would use a boroscope to inspect each cylinder. Drop the engine oil to check for flakes of metal indicating engine and bearing wear.
It depends on what Price you bought the car, and whats the market price currently. Propably option 3, you can inspect it, compression test, history etc..
dean if you can look down the cylinders of the second hand engine before considering buying it if it looks good throw some cam chains and tensioners in it and call it a day if you are going to sell it if you are going to keep it buy the new block and rebuild it. there is option 5 is the s series v8 is it the same engine cheers from down under
Option 4 - crankcase rebuild for me Dean. I've tried a second hand engine twice in other cars and both times they failed quite quickly so think thats far too risky.
A new engine from Audi if I was buying the car, but if it was mine to repair, i’d go the rebuild route of option 4 as option 3 could still realistically do with a refresh of perhaps timing chains, tensioners etc so more than just the £5k to start with. Option 3 gives you a known good starting point assuming the crank, rods etc are all okay.
The one bit of info I don’t have that would make my decision easier is how much the car would be worth after each option. Surly that determines what option to go for? That said from an entertainment point of view option 4 would offer the most interest to me. Good luck.
remember that on alusil blocks audi allow one oversize bore and piston, bigger by: Bore dimension 1 84.510 ± 0.005 Bore dimension 2 84.610 ± 0.005 Nominal piston dimension 1 84.490 Nominal piston dimension 2 84.590 So depends of the damage, its always possible to bore the alusil block, hone with sunnen paste, instal oversize pistons and rings and youre good to go.
Option 2 makes the most sense to me especially if you’re using REPerformace for the work. From a buying point of view I’d be most happy with that and it’s only slightly more than the crank case rebuild considering how much you’d be in to it anyway.
@@Andycfto well yeh but it’s double the cost. Where the rebuild from REPerformance bang for buck makes the most sense. The cars like 34k value I don’t see many people shelling out 18k for a motor it doesn’t make financial sense.
He did mate, but I wouldn’t pay the premium for this car as a buyer once it’s had its new engine in. You’d be into v10 money for it to work financially for the seller & they will hold their value a lot better than the v8 even with a new engine in it. That’s why I think option 2 is the best all round choice
option 3 remove spark plugs put a camera down the bore.then do a compression check connect starter to a battery by the way BEFORE you buy. best of luck and save a lot of money
As a buyer, option 4 all day long for me, low mileage engine to start with and keeping the car totally original with added peace of mind of the rebuid done by yourself. Option 3+ as a second choice but with as much inspection / checking of the engine as is reasonably possible.
My suggestion, sit tight. Pack up all the parts/bolts in a tidy box, leave the project for a few weeks (only possible as there are photos of the disassembly). The internet is a wonderful thing, there will be experienced engine builders looking at this, many will have faced the same situation and worked out their solution. I'm always amazed at Edd/Ant who can pull out some clever fix which has to have been from an "expert in the field", the racing fraternity are good for this. Edd does say he uses internet forums. There may well be an Audi expert who knows these engines etc. As with Mike Brewer, it's a whole project in itself to find parts, specialist engineering services (and know who to trust). Your CarVertical is a good idea. I watch Edd as he brings us suggestions that I would never have thought of, that's media value.
Get your CarVertical report here: www.carvertical.com/gb/landing/v3?a=Saving&b=38b26e3a&voucher=savingsalvage
I didn't get a notification 🤬
Just buy a recon engine do water pump and chains
But the best repair would be sleeve the block with steal liners that’s the all round beat option
id look for a smashed front ened r8 tbh
Option 2 you could make more power and hopefully sell it for more because of the steel sleeve
I would go with option 3 used engine, you can always try and inspect it using a small camera on the piston chambers and see if there's any shadows or possible score marks, and then spend the rest on refurbishing it, and would be less of a loss on the purchase...
I agree 👍
I agree too
Agree, scope into the bores to check condition 👍
Yea same, if you can't inspect it before buying then try and get some guarantees from the seller such as a refund if the bores are fu**ed
Endoscope - vast selection available, pull the spark plugs and have a look !
I'd go for the second hand engine, do a compression and bore scope check and possibly replace any iffy bits.
This.
what he said......a second hand engine shouldn't be too risky if you do these checks....Might be worth checking the mileage though..if your engine has done 50k miles and second hand is 150k miles then the resale value is less...
You could have a Cylinder sleeve fitted and reuse the engine
Option 4 is prefered
This is what I would have done.
I'd go for option 1, the new engine because that's what I'd prefer to buy as well... new Audi engine is what you want as a buyer. But also consider this, there are plenty of saleable parts off the old engine, like the other head and bits and pieces that could knock a couple of grand off that price too. If you can negotiate a better deal with your dealer on it too, it'll save you loads of work and headaches and you won't be that far off the cost of the other options.
100% agree, and great logic with selling the useable parts of the old engine!
Could also take him years to get that money back and its alot of money to have tied up in parts to sell one at a time. Plus it'd be a ball ache posting all that. Then returns and refunds. Most people that can afford that car wont buy used parts on the internet etc
Also. If that were an option. Then rhe 2nd hand engine would make more sense. He could, over time potentially make money on the purchase. Obviously check the used engine. Scope it and find out why it was removed etc. Usually there's some warranty with a purchase like that.
For option 4 you should also factor in at least a couple of Conrods as when you have valve heads bouncing around in the combustion chamber there's a good chance you could bend them. Can I make a suggestion you may want to consider having the bores looked at, at an aluminium bore specialist and having them bored or honed out and re nikasil plated (depends on the depth of the damage)
Also the crankshaft bearings might have been slightly indented. That would lead to a failiure after a couple hundred miles.
these engines are not nikasil plated. they use an aluminum alloy called Alusil that is high in silicon. The bore surface is honed using a paste that etches the aluminum but leaves the little microscopic silicon nodules. This creates a perfect surface on the bores for oil to stick. These cannot be honed or plated in the traditional manner
I would go with option 3...but like others have said..borescope, compression check,pull all the plugs and get one if possible with a full service history...Also...let's see the next project....👍👍👍👍
Agree with above as the best option. If that doesn't work out, I'd suggest refurbishing the existing block with steel cylinder liners and adding new forged pistons/conrods. Then you'd have a bulletproof engine that should last longer than Audi's original design, and that would also add more value to the car.
@@DJDinaggio Converting to steel cylinder liners is very risky. Saw on another channel something similar (but can remember if it was allu block with steel cylinder or the other way around) and after 1000 km engine got destroyed. Because of difference in heat expansion of steel vs allu cylinders, your piston ring gaps should also differ from what Audi states in their repair manual for a allu cylinder with the stock piston.
@@mihai-bogdanmagdalina8492 Possibly www.youtube.com/@M539Restorations/videos
@@cccpkingu correct
I would want a complete new engine but it would be hard not to go with option #4.
I'd pick Option 2 re-liner and new pistons. It will be bullet proof and you are replacing all the damaged stuff that would otherwise be risky. I think it would also be the one that a buyer would be most comfortable with, besides a new engine.
Personally I’d go with option 3 but ask if you can have a look at it first and look down all the bores down the spark plug tube, and ask about it’s history.
Yup . boroscope 🍺🍺
Not being an engineering expert in any way I’d lean towards option 4 however if I was buying this car form you I’d know it’s in top condition as you can literally watch it being built from the ground up!
The videos are amazing .. as always good luck with the rebuild!!
Well another excellent channel dealing with my life's love, motor cars.
Back in the 80's and early 90's I used to rebuild damaged repairable high end Japanese sports cars, approx 15 all told, but they were not anywhere near as complicated as the vehicles are now. However what I always did was examine the vehicle from all angles and aspects, and find out what damage was apparent then took loads of photos Bonus print made a fortune out of me. Then I would scrupulously clean the engine bay and damaged area with a power washer and or a steam cleaner. This in my mind made the whole dismantle and rebuild process so much easier. One thing to add though I only bought cars that were 4 years old or newer, it made removing rusted bolts etc so much easier.
For your dilemma, I would go for opt 4 but build in a 20>25% cost increase in your estimate, so you would be looking at approx £10k plus, but have the assurance of knowing that most things are covered and at 40k miles its worth the risk and half the cost of a new engine. Unless of course you can find a unicorn with more or less the same mileage with structural damage.
Good luck with the project, I am enjoying your production and have subscribed.
option 3+ sounds the most ok from a cost point of view and if you can inspect it or have a warranty that it was running fine should be ok
4 it’s a no brainer ya have a brand new engine for the price of a reshelved engine so I would go option 4
I would go with option 2 as the fact that it is future proofed and has 8 new pistons and rods. I personally think that would be a good selling point
Really? I thought that was the worst option of the lot. Audi never designed this high performance engine to use steel liners. The work is highly risky and doesn’t guarantee a reliable product in the end.
From your perspective as the builder, I immediately thought re-bore the cylinder out, didn’t realise it was that difficult! From a buyer perspective, I think would be happiest with the new engine from audi, however that isn’t the most cost effective for you
Tricky: As soon as you remove an engine, the car is devalued. Some buyers won't go near it now. How do they judge who's done the work has done a perfect job, for example. You're just a stranger to them, despite your reputation for good work. I'd go option 3 & do as many checks as I could on it and hope it's ok, before selling it soon after the swap. It's just not worth sinking money into it, now the original engine has been removed. You'd could sell some parts off the old engine too, to help the budget. Good content - keep up the good work. 👊
If I was re building I’d probably go for 3+ rebuild. If I was buying I’d like option 1 or option 4
I'm no car mechanic but this is addictive. It reminds me of 'Take Hart' and Morph when I was a kid -especially the sounds. PS - Gotta be Option 3 (should you get a good feeling with /know/trust the seller)
first time ever I've heard a comparison of an engine stripdown and Morph !.... 😀
Option four for me from both perspectives. From a buyers viewpoint it’s the damaged components have been replaced and all other components have been check during disassembly and assembly.
From your perspective the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Appreciate it’s not the cheapest option but it is the safest and can also be used as a selling point.
Hi Dean. After discovering your channel by chance, I've binge watching all your videos since the beginning. Keep up the good work. As for the R8, in an ideal world the new engine would be the choice but option 4 has the less risk out of the others and you would know what you got in the end. If I were to buy the car, option 4 is what I would prefer. As for the next project, I miss the RS6 and it's a good time to get it back on the road. Cheers!
Personally I'd do option 3 if it's a complete engine etc. Plenty of spares then too
Option 3 or 4 -- advantage of 3 you will be left with some spares that could be useful or sold.
Option 3, I did the similar with my a5 that smashed valves but I just put fitted the engine as it was and it’s been alright
Hi Dean, Ref Engine rebuild.. I'd stay well away from another second hand engine, their engine could be as close to snapping valves as your engine has done.. New engine would be a cracking good idea, sadly cost is well out there for it.. New liners and pistons again ... Good idea on cost .. but again, not my choice.. I'd go with new crank case ( only when your Old engine is stripped ) the crank Main and Little end bearings hve been checked and the connecting rods checked .. If anything is scored to deap .. then I'd look at a short block and have the head work done on new and old head to allow same size head gaskets to be used....... Keep up the good work.. Will be nice to hear it run again... Andy
Option 4 seems the most logical in the price vs. risk comparison
Hi,
Does option 1 come with an Audi warranty? If so this is a plus when you come to sell it.
They wouldn't come with warranty if they don't install it... And if it is a salvage, probably not even if they install it.
I would certainly go with option 4. It what makes you feel comfortable and the same goes for a future owner. The milage of the car vertical check was not so high which therefore applies to all the ancillary parts.
My father and I buy and sell cars and I have been on the website and nearly bought an r8 last year that needed body/ shell repair these videos are a great start for when I decide the make the jump
Option 2 or 4 would be the best content and also on resale at a later day, great content as always, you need a oil burner to heat your workshop- uses all your used oil
No doubts about going for the second hand engine. You still have a long way to go rebuilding and you know the components you have to work with have suffered some serious mechanical stresses, not to mention heat. There is the question around why it happened in the first place too. The loose nut! So, having just been faced with a similar issue in the last several weeks, I would go for the used engine, but be picky about where you get if from. Finally, I am a likely buyer for this kind of car. The option I would be most happy with is the used engine with provenance. The car is used, and has clearly had a issue. The engine rebuild is unproven, whereas a used engine from an identified damaged vehicle is a no brainer. Personally, I would walk away from anything less. That's just my penny's worth.
Option 3 Dean , as others say due diligence is a must . Must be a few crashed damaged ones out there with good engines in them
Well you have to consider what kind of a car it is too and its a 99.99% chance it has been driven very hard so the entire drivetrain need a very thorough check by an expert and odds are money will fly....
@@MrKveite1 well to me it would all depend on whether I intended to keep the car myself or get it roadworthy and move it on
@@johnwren5516 yes, i meant that for viewers that could possibly be interested in buying one. You already know this...
I would go with option 4 Dean it will make good content for the channel
No to 1 or 2 imho. 3/3+ seems like the best bet. Sounds like the only option with potential for price negotiation too. You can test compression to gauge secondhand engine health - you just need a good battery and a starter. Best of luck Dean.
Option 5. Squirt a couple of tubes of Holts Piston Seal down the plug hole, and that should sort the bore out! Worked for me on my 197 Villiers engine, then sell it quick smart.
Thinking about the cost and risk involved with the other options I’d go with 4
Yep , right choice I think
Agree, less risk associated. More risk could mean more expenditure.
option 2, steelliners would make the engine capable of taking more power aswell.
I feel your pain Dean. It has to be a secondhand engine!
Option 3 mate all day long, all those spare parts that you’ll have left over too at the end of the day could sell and recover some of your costs, if you want I get a pretty good discount level at TPS if you want a new engine or parts haha
Long time viewer here Dean. Been following since the 8p rs3! Like a lot of other people I would echo how nice its been seeingyour Chanel grow and your production values get better.
As far as options go I'd definatly rebuild and re sleeve. It's not that much more than a clean short block and if you upgrade pistons, rods, bearings as well as sleeves with a reliable builder the engine will come back stronger and be good for a twin turbo project. With a manual box a tt setup it'll be a pretty awesome build and faster/lighter than the v10. Would make for good content seeing the sleeving process and adding twin turbos too! If plans to keep it stock then go snew short block and head from audi. Seems a missed opportunity not to build it up if the engines out...
Im a mechanic tbh I would lightly hone the scored cylinder and let the new rings do the rest... Failing that I would take a chance on a second hand engine from a crashed car... That way you could recover a bit of your costs by selling the spare parts... Enjoying this series immensely ...Thanks...
I would go for the second hand engine depending on its history then thoroughly go through it, so 5k plus all the servicing and checks.
I'd be picking option 4 Dean. You don't know the history of the secondhand engine so why risk it, plus you know this one had low miles before the engine failure and it makes sense to rebuild it with all new parts. Even if you have to spend a few quid more it'll be practically a new engine again, not a part secondhand one. GL with your choice I look forward to watching the builds :)
I would suggest option 3 but make sure the engine has a one year guarantee.
I would go for option 3. You could still buy all the gasket, seals and timing kits and do a full inspection on the bores. The issue surrounding your particular engine seems to be limited to the valve damaging the top of the bore, most likely as a direct result of the loose cam bolt and the timing skipping. For comparison, I believe the Range Rover Evoque of a certain year range has a similar issue with cam bolts coming loose and they aren’t usually found until the engine needs new timing chains and guides. The original ones are supposed to be pretty low quality.
At least with a known running engine you could do the all of the work to replace gaskets, seals etc, with new parts and know that the engine will be good. Thread lock the cam bolts for peace of mind and you should be good. You would also save a good bit of cash too and that would translate to more money in the sale of the car at a later date.
Option 4 for me - the best balance of cost vs outcome. Yes the used lump is cheaper, but it's just a used lump and without a detailed inspection you could be buying anything. I can't work out if you are brave or just mad taking this one on - but you'll get there 👍
Option 3, think it's worth the risk.
Secondhand engine And Bore scope it etc
Hi mate
I would go for a complete new engine as there could be other issues
Keep up the good vids
And deduct any money for selling the existing engine parts
Hi Dean, i would only have 2 options, Option 1 & 3. Option 1 if I'm keeping it, option 3 if I'm selling it. Thanks for all the great video's and great channel.👍👍
Option 3 with an inspection before buying. Turn it over, pull the plugs inspect the bores. Zero issues with a used engine, after all every single car driving on the roads has a used engine.
Not to mention, good luck getting all the parts needed for a rebuild. My best mates a mechanic at an AUDI dealership, they currently have 13 cars sat in the yard waiting on backordered parts. The worst of them has been there 4 months now.
option 4 seems like the best one depending on the buyers POV
Great video. Not a nice dilemma at all 🤔 Option 4 for me, as a safe bet, followed by option 2. Good luck with what ever you decide and am really looking forward to the rest of this series 👍👍
I would buy the car with the brand new engine, if you’re selling the car on , you will definitely attract buyers with a higher price as will have a new factory built engine & I’ll guess some kind of warranty
TH-camr Watch JRGO, he bought a used Jag engine. In that deal, he was able to return the engine if there was a problem (which there was) and get another one. If the used option comes with warrenty, then that would be good viewing for your channel. Failing that, swapping parts onto a new crankcase is equally interesting. Love the 'Save the R8' project!
Before making a decision I would check the other cylinder head as if you have to go for a new crankcase you may then find the other head is knackered making the second hand engine more of a bargain before buying it would be worth popping off the cam covers and checking the cams and rockers and doing a boreoscope for any bore scoring..
I'd agree with others. Used engine but with a guarantee. Looking forward to whichever option you choose. Will be good content.
I would go option 3 as long as you got a warranty on the engine. 👍🇦🇺 great vid
I would go for option: resleeve the block, if in future something would go wrong, then a rebore could still be an option
Sounds like option 1 to me new engine,it would turn me more to buy it with a new engine
What a guy to watch, his knowledge is brilliant, and knows his stuff
I would go for option 3 and check the engine carefully, possibly with a camera to look at the piston liners, if possible take the oil pan down and check there, look in the oil filters
New engine from Audi, but this depends on the total value of the car once completed. Great vid as always, good luck with all your projects Dean :)
Hiya Dean, at the risk of getting shot down here is the Audi V8 not used in other Audi models through the range? If you just need a block/bottom end is it feasible to use one from another Audi model car if they are the same? M539 restorations did this when he rebuilt his V8.
What would the resell value of the R8 be after successful engine repair/replace?
No different to any other. Any R8 could of had major repair work done to it. A new engine would increase the value slightly. A rebuilt one with a new crankcase would retain value. As long as everything works as it should.
@@SavingSalvage It's not "could of" it's "could have".
@@travisash8180 no one cares, he is fixing cars - not teaching English
@@Sydney268 Some people care and he is speaking/typing English.
@@travisash8180 shut up. Don't you have something better to do?
I think id be tempted by option 3, plenty checks like compression and a look down the bores then give it a refresh to make sure everything's sweet. New tensioners etc
He's nor asking why you think he should do he's asking if you were buying the audi what would you prefer. New engine obviously 🙄
@Andy eh? He also said excluding option 1 if you want to be a smart arse about it 😂
Always remember an engine swap with a second hand from a scraped car. When I asked if it was good got the “It was running when it crashed”…… Barely, engine after swap was breathing oil and as knackered as the first plus less hundreds of labour. You have get a warrantied one that has been thoroughly checked over.
Great video Dean, It a tough one. Option 3 makes a lot of sense, chances are a second hand engine has come from a crashed damaged car, the engines at the back so no engine damage also they are not an everyday car so it won't have spaceship mileage on it' obviously do what ever checks before paying for it. Option 4 would be my second choice. Good luck mate.
Option 4 seems to be the best choice managing cost and risk.
Hi Dean - I was leaning towards the 'ebay' engine, until you said which option would I be happy to buy. Therefore, it has to be your favourite - option 4. Looking forward to the content, whichever way you end up going. Love the channel, and look forward to every episode....😁
Option 2. Rather have a steel bore than an alloy one. Whatever you do is going to cost big bucks, get the heads polished & ported whilst you're at it. That car will still make you money!
I would go for the secondhand engine rebuild all day long especially if you are allowed to do a bit of inspection and are given some history that says the engine came from a running car. Your new block option assumes that the existing crank is good and all the con rods are straight etc etc. Please wheel the new project in while you ruminate/await deliveries. All the very best whichever route you take.
OPTION 5 - look at the LS3 and LS7 crate engines or even the R8 v10. I would love to see an R8 with a Porsche Turbo engine and transmission in it! Option 3: The 2nd hand engine is the quickest and cheapest option if you can see it running first! Option 3+ gives peace of mind. HOWEVER, are we sure that the transmission is okay if the engine seized like that? Good Luck!
Option 3 and take a look inside all of the cylinders to look at the state of the valves, honing and other symptoms. Do you know why the engine is for sale? Could have been in a frontal crash. Your preferred option 4 sounds more of a money pit than you might realise. If I was a potential buyer for this car I'd be happy with option 3 or 3+, if you had to address issues with the 2nd hand engine.
But what do I know 😊
Got to be option 3!! Depending on the milage on the used engine.
What about a LS crate motor swap? Nice project and very tuneable.
I would go with option 2 if it can be heard running , option 3 if like many others have said doing bore check etc , then option 4 if 2 and 3 are not convincing enough for you .
I would go option 3 but see if you can do a compression test on it and get a camera down to look at the bores.
All this depends on cost and your end option...buy or sell.
My option would be 1. This depends on costs and warranty availability. I am not convinced anything modified to one side of a V engine would be a good option. Of course there is always the thought that if you did buy a new engine, what parts would you still have on the current engine to part out towards the cost of a new one?
Hope this gives you some ideas Dean. Good luck whichever way you go. Cheers, Bob
Well, you are so far into this there is no going back! Option 4 is a lot of work and possibly there is greater cost that your initial estimate. Option 3 or 3+ are probably good PROVIDED that you can get some history and the ability to inspect as other have suggested - check oil (even get it analysed for swarf), horoscope into cylinders and compression test. These check would significantly reduce risk and give a potentially better vale. Acid test for purchase? Option 3+ with documented work carried out.
Option 3, but check as much as possible before purchase. Bore-scope, compression check etc....
A used engine with warranty would be my choice, warranty being the key factor. A decent borescope/laparoscope may be a good purchase to establish cylinder bore condition. Also you would have a donor engine for this build and future parts depending on how complete the 2nd engine is. Yes it would still be a risk but you took the biggest buying the car !! Good luck, it will be great seeing the R8 back on the road.
Option 4 I think is a good one given that you don't have any damage to the crank and rods for an extra £1250 compared to option 3+ you are guaranteeing yourself having a good and fully working engine.
Option 3 definatly the hours alone on the other options will be massive just give the second hand engine a good inspection
option 4, replacing the parts that broken. However I think it will end up costing more than you think with all the auxiliaries, and its possible the existing piston rods and head might be damaged too. Pro is, you end up with very near new engine.
Option 4 seems the best as you know what you are dealing with. Problem with option 3+ is that sod’s law will dictate that the used engine you are rebuilding will need a component that you have already broken or worn out on the original engine. Also the car will still have the same engine number it was shipped with. Like the pace and the way you do the videos.
This is a conundrum. Easiest option to complete and sell... Option 1, but then you lose original engine matching numbers scenario. Option to buy secondhand on a performance car like this.. too risky I think... unless the engine is coming out of a very low mileage write off R8. But still risky. Option 4 sounds like the best option but with all these projects hidden problems and additional costs could mount up?? Then what cost do you finish with?? I think if I was buying the car a new engine would give me more confidence. Good luck with this project.. a good one for the channel.
Look into re-coating the bores if the crank case hasn't deformed! Otherwise, option 3 with boroscope and pressure checks.
To me it depends if you're going to keep the R8 as a forever car.
If that was the case, Id go option #2.
Reasons:
1. That way it will be inherently a stronger engine with steel liners.
2. Will be able to be bored to oversize down the track.(wear or damage)
3. You could buy trick rods and pistons that are capable of high Hp.
4. Built engine allows for off the shelf aftermarket Twin Turbo kit.
Defiantly a tricky decision.
A brand new motor sounds tempting...But a steel sleeved and built bottom end is future proofed and stronger.
I am going with the used engine....provided mileage is low and comes from a reputable breaker. I would use a boroscope to inspect each cylinder. Drop the engine oil to check for flakes of metal indicating engine and bearing wear.
It depends on what Price you bought the car, and whats the market price currently. Propably option 3, you can inspect it, compression test, history etc..
dean if you can look down the cylinders of the second hand engine before considering buying it if it looks good throw some cam chains and tensioners in it and call it a day if you are going to sell it if you are going to keep it buy the new block and rebuild it. there is option 5 is the s series v8 is it the same engine cheers from down under
Option 4 - crankcase rebuild for me Dean. I've tried a second hand engine twice in other cars and both times they failed quite quickly so think thats far too risky.
A new engine from Audi if I was buying the car, but if it was mine to repair, i’d go the rebuild route of option 4 as option 3 could still realistically do with a refresh of perhaps timing chains, tensioners etc so more than just the £5k to start with. Option 3 gives you a known good starting point assuming the crank, rods etc are all okay.
The one bit of info I don’t have that would make my decision easier is how much the car would be worth after each option. Surly that determines what option to go for? That said from an entertainment point of view option 4 would offer the most interest to me. Good luck.
remember that on alusil blocks audi allow one oversize bore and piston, bigger by:
Bore dimension 1 84.510 ± 0.005
Bore dimension 2 84.610 ± 0.005
Nominal piston dimension 1 84.490
Nominal piston dimension 2 84.590
So depends of the damage, its always possible to bore the alusil block, hone with sunnen paste, instal oversize pistons and rings and youre good to go.
Id say for cost wise go with option 3 get a warranty and also make good use of a bore scope. if not that option then rebuild with new sleeves
Option 2 makes the most sense to me especially if you’re using REPerformace for the work. From a buying point of view I’d be most happy with that and it’s only slightly more than the crank case rebuild considering how much you’d be in to it anyway.
Wouldn't you be more happy with a new engine??
@@Andycfto well yeh but it’s double the cost. Where the rebuild from REPerformance bang for buck makes the most sense. The cars like 34k value I don’t see many people shelling out 18k for a motor it doesn’t make financial sense.
@@philippecosta710 oh I thought he said which one would you be happy with as a buyer
He did mate, but I wouldn’t pay the premium for this car as a buyer once it’s had its new engine in. You’d be into v10 money for it to work financially for the seller & they will hold their value a lot better than the v8 even with a new engine in it. That’s why I think option 2 is the best all round choice
option 3 remove spark plugs put a camera down the bore.then do a compression check connect starter to a battery by the way BEFORE you buy. best of luck and save a lot of money
Option 3 if you can compression test and borescope the second hand engine (or get a warranty with it)... If not option 4 is the safest way...
Option 4 is the best, at least for us viewers. We would like to see you rebuild this engine instead of fitting a new or used one. Good job!
As a buyer, option 4 all day long for me, low mileage engine to start with and keeping the car totally original with added peace of mind of the rebuid done by yourself.
Option 3+ as a second choice but with as much inspection / checking of the engine as is reasonably possible.
My suggestion, sit tight. Pack up all the parts/bolts in a tidy box, leave the project for a few weeks (only possible as there are photos of the disassembly).
The internet is a wonderful thing, there will be experienced engine builders looking at this, many will have faced the same situation and worked out their solution. I'm always amazed at Edd/Ant who can pull out some clever fix which has to have been from an "expert in the field", the racing fraternity are good for this. Edd does say he uses internet forums. There may well be an Audi expert who knows these engines etc.
As with Mike Brewer, it's a whole project in itself to find parts, specialist engineering services (and know who to trust).
Your CarVertical is a good idea. I watch Edd as he brings us suggestions that I would never have thought of, that's media value.